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Reserve Linebacker Alfred Fincher Re-signed

Jason Reid reports:

The Redskins have re-signed reserve linebacker Alfred Fincher, the team announced today.Contract terms were not immediately available.

Fincher, who was a key contributor on special teams in the 2008 season, joined the Redskins in training camp and played in 15 games. He ranked eighth on the team with nine special teams tackles.

Vinny Cerrato, Washington executive vice president of football operations, still hopes to sign a starting-caliber tackle to replace longtime right tackle Jon Jansen, a league source said, and the team is in contract negotiations with the agent for veteran defensive end Phillip Daniels.

By Matt Vita  |  March 10, 2009; 3:24 PM ET
 
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Next: Doughty Signs for 1 Year with Skins

Comments

Good move to resigning Fincher, I like this kid allot.

Posted by: dashriprock | March 10, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

first? about time they got this up

Posted by: footy_29 | March 10, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

good solid performer who they couldn't have let go with the depth at linebacker that they have currently which is still thin.

Posted by: jrenn2114 | March 10, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Fincher is an insurance policy for McIntosh.
Also, Fincher played some strong side LB last season, although he probably will not be able to carry that load for extended periods of time this season.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 10, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato, Washington executive vice president of football operations, still hopes to sign a starting-caliber tackle to replace longtime right tackle Jon Jansen, a league source said

If that ain't motivation for Heyer, then nothing will be. I'd be pumped to prove Vinny C is an idiot.

Posted by: TWISI | March 10, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I hope they get some OL help. I think the D will be just fine.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 10, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato, Washington executive vice president of football operations, still hopes to sign a starting-caliber tackle"

Like who?

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | March 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Cut and Paster hard at work

way to get the third hand news about the Redskins

Posted by: jonthefisherman | March 10, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the Rams are going to cut Orlando Pace....want another 33 year old lineman?

Posted by: russberlin65 | March 10, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato, Washington executive vice president of football operations, still hopes to sign a starting-caliber tackle to replace longtime right tackle Jon Jansen, a league source said,"

Hey Vinnie, Todd Wade is available. He was originally slated to start there over Heyer and Jensen. :)

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Pace would make sense if they don't draft OL.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Cut and Paster hard at work

way to get the third hand news about the Redskins

Posted by: jonthefisherman | March 10, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

And thank you jonthefisherman for taking time out from your busy, busy day to elevate the discussion up here.

Posted by: mack1 | March 10, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato, Washington executive vice president of football operations, still hopes to sign a starting-caliber tackle to replace longtime right tackle Jon Jansen, a league source said,"

There aren't any upgrades over Heyer/Jansen out there right now. The skins either draft a RT or go with Heyer/Jansen, which isn't the worse situation in my opinion (Gives Heyer a chance to step up and prove himself).

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 10, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

an absolute need here......

I hope they sign Daniels and not Wynn unless Daniels gets hurt otherwise its time to see what Wilson and Jackson can do. Draft a tackle at 13, James Davis or Devin Moore in 3rd, two LBs late, then sign 5 or 6 UDFA LBs after the draft and let fight it out. I am against resigning Marcus at any price, we need youth and speed there not age and street clothes for half the season. The truth is with Albert and Griff in the middle the our LBs should see among the least amount of 2nd level blockers in the league. Find some young hungry guys and let them battle it out. Fletcher is a beast, Rocky is decent, Fincher is decent, you bring in 3-4 rookies and let them all battle it out for playing time, if you don't like the way it looks in camp you sign a veteran that is cut.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Cut and Paster hard at work

way to get the third hand news about the Redskins

Posted by: jonthefisherman | March 10, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

And thank you jonthefisherman for taking time out from your busy, busy day to elevate the discussion up here.

Posted by: mack1 | March 10, 2009 4:02 PM

He's right though

From other reports, ESPN800 being one, we are no longer looking at Brown. I doubt that we sign a tackle because the improvement would be marginal at best over Heyer/Jansen.

Posted by: footy_29 | March 10, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

they coulda had this up hours ago had one of them read my post in the last comments section earlier. the wash(edout)post is jacking my news and claiming it as jason reids...

Posted by: X--E | March 10, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

"Coles will earn $9.7 million in 2009"

Is there anyone that thinks Coles is better than TJ? For that money, he might have stayed. While we spent a ton on AH, at least he has the potential to be worth what he will actually get paid. There are plenty of FO's out there making risky moves, not just ours.

Posted by: will_ga | March 10, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Why not sign Derrick Brooks!! He's still available.

Posted by: timb67 | March 10, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

There are plenty of FO's out there making risky moves, not just ours.

Posted by: will_ga


Well, now I feel better

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

If a player is suspended for discliplinary reasons, in case Matt Jones is, does it still count against the cap?

Posted by: will_ga | March 10, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Coles wasn't worth that when he was playing in DC.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 10, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Well, now I feel better

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March

Glad I could help.

Posted by: will_ga | March 10, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Is Janson still with the team? I see the article says we are still looking for someone to replace him. I think you replace him in the draft. Oh yeah that was two years ago when we were supposed to bew doing that. My bad. This year you take MLB that can play end this year while Fletcher is still healthy, then OL, OL, OL

Posted by: dbrine1261 | March 10, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

On the upside, Jim Fassel seems to have a HC job in -- Vegas(!) -- does that mean he won't be coming here after Zorn gets axed?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

not with Holmgren, Shanahan, Gruden, Cowher, and potentially Dungy and Parcells available next year. its a legit playoff run or Zorn and Vinny are gone

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

1) Yall stop sleeping on my boy Rob Jackson! He'll be a contributor next year!

2) Too much "Wahh" in here lately!

3) If we can pickup Marcus Washington for vet min, I'll be pumped. It's like having a cherry on top. He's just extra now.

AND I bought his jersey on Redskins.com for only 20 bucks after he got cut! Down from 80-90 bucks!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | March 10, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

'...Looks like the Rams are going to cut Orlando Pace....want another 33 year old lineman?'


Has it come to this?

O Pace?

O' God!

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Joe Bugel, from redskins.com, talking about Dockery: A: “You can’t get enough good football players. What he gives us is 6-foot-6, 325 pounds inside. You need some beef inside right now because [defenses] are putting--well, take Albert Haynesworth. He is the kind of person that guards and centers are playing [against] now. The big guys are inside. The racers are outside, so your tackles have to be really quick and elusive and your guards better be pounders.”

So that explains everything - Jansen keeps his job because he's "elusive". Defensive ends can try to run into him, but they'll end up missing and finding themselves at the QB!

Posted by: PatM1 | March 10, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty sad that J Ca Ca refuses to post the non-negative team news.

grow up Ca Ca

Posted by: IHateJLC | March 10, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

THE FINAL PIECES ARE FALLING IN TO PLACE!

Posted by: Leeguru | March 10, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

If we have a bad year and Zorn gets fired, do we really think Dan will get rid of Vinny? I just am not sure he would be let go as well. If you take Vinny away and put in a real GM Dan won't get to have as much fun and I don't see that being something he is ready to do.

Posted by: will_ga | March 10, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

If we have a bad year and Zorn gets fired, do we really think Dan will get rid of Vinny? I just am not sure he would be let go as well. If you take Vinny away and put in a real GM Dan won't get to have as much fun and I don't see that being something he is ready to do.

Posted by: will_ga

I do see this as Vinny's last stand. As zjfr mentioned, there are a ton of coaches with rings out there, still with interest in coaching. And probably not interested in reporting to Vinny.

Give Snyder a choice between hiring Cowher and keeping Vinny -- Vinny loses

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

So that explains everything - Jansen keeps his job because he's "elusive". Defensive ends can try to run into him, but they'll end up missing and finding themselves at the QB!

Posted by: PatM1

Sometimes they find the RB, like on 4th down and vs the jints. Jansen managed to elude 2 jints on that play

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

if we have a bad year, yes Vinny is gone too, everything would fall at his feet finally, he's out of excuses if we have a bad year, his draft picks, his signings, his coach.......and if Zorn goes Snyder will have given the not big name coach the chance so you know his next hire would be the biggest name out there, and they would want full control, so yeah, IMHO anything less than the playoffs and Zorn and Vinny are gone!

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

zjfr -- seeing things the same way. Too many successful coaches out there and too much $$ spent for too little.

The real question is what is the threshold for Vinny/Zorn to keep their jobs. 9-7 and squeaking into the playoffs probably isn't enough to keep their jobs.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

NFC East team making the playoffs isn't enough for a second year coach to keep his job?

Really?

Posted by: edvar | March 10, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

zce, I don't think it matters record wise, I think its playoffs or bust and at least one playoff win. So yeah, sneak in a win a game they're safe, sneak in and lose, I'm not sure, don't care what the record is, miss the playoffs and they're gone.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins have re-signed reserve linebacker Alfred Fincher, the team announced today.Contract terms were not immediately available."

League minimum + ham sandwich

Posted by: dcsween | March 10, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the Rams are going to cut Orlando Pace....want another 33 year old lineman?

Would not be too much of a stretch late in training camp if need be. Despite him growing up in the Cleveland area his wife is from the area and he's been here quite a bit. If the skins are that much closer to a title then the Rams are I could see him looking for a ring on the cheap.

He has regularly hinted at retirment after the last 3 injury plagued years so his motivation may not be there.

Just a thought!

Posted by: overzealous08 | March 10, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

The real question is what is the threshold for Vinny/Zorn to keep their jobs. 9-7 and squeaking into the playoffs probably isn't enough to keep their jobs.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:07 PM

Threshold = Skins brand revenues maintained and/or increased

Posted by: dcsween | March 10, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

PATS PICK UP BODDEN
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2009, 3:35 p.m.
On the heels of inking free-agent cornerback Shawn Springs, the Patriots have hauled in another veteran defensive back.

According to Christopher Gasper of the Boston Globe, the Pats have agreed to terms with cornerback Leigh Bodden. Per Gasper, it’s a one-year deal.

Bodden visited the Pats on February 27, the first day of free agency. (If it was reported, we didn’t notice, probably because we were trying to put out the server fire.)

He spent five years with the Browns before being traded to the Lions last year as part of the Shaun Rogers deal. But the Lions cut Bodden last month, on the first day for releasing players.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 10, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

"Despite him growing up in the Cleveland area his wife is from the area and he's been here quite a bit."

Meaning visited here for pleasure not to visit redskins park per say!

Posted by: overzealous08 | March 10, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

NFC East team making the playoffs isn't enough for a second year coach to keep his job?

Really?

Posted by: edvar | March 10, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Yeah really, you don't spend 180 some million on players to sneak into and then be one and done in the playoffs. Danny boy is back to buy a championship mode, and he spent big this year. Its not super bowl or bust, but its definitely playoffs or bust, and if its only sneak in as a wild card and lose immediately with another year of piss poor offense when the only reason you hired Zorn was to finally bring a legit offense to town after years of Gibbs run run pass ball, then yeah, I think he's gone and one of the numerous gigantic names with rings sitting at home this season comes to DC.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I seriously doubt that Vinny and Zorn are tied at the hip.

Zorny = Vinny's Mulligan

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 10, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

Zorny = Vinny's Mulligan

Posted by: 4thFloor

Vinny pretty much leads all NFL execs in mulligans

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

You can def say Danny is looking for a home playoff game.

It's only between us the Giants. Cowboys will suck this year, as will the Eagles defense.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 10, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

But he has never had a Coach's Mulligan........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 10, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Vinny's out of mulligans by any standard...

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

... Danny boy is back to buy a championship mode, and he spent big this year. ...

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 10, 2009 5:26 PM

... using the time-tested financial model of "buy high, sell low*"

* also could use "cut outright"

Posted by: dcsween | March 10, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

matthewvickers

'....Fincher is an insurance policy for McIntosh....'


Rocky Mac is a high round pick who should be entering his prime--and he needs an insurance policy?

Is he a bust...?

Good question.

Given the way sorry a$$ed Kellen Winslow jr. and a couple of non-descript tight ends used Rock in the middle of last season, I'd say the guy is a bust.

The Skins used J Taylor--not Rock--to shadow McNabb and Westbrook when they went hybrid aginst the iggles, and that's not a good sign for a young 'backer.

Hopefully, Rock got it going on this year as the skins face, Gates/Gonzalez/the improving Celek et al next year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I do think Zorn and Vinny are tied at the hip. I can see a few scenarios where one goes and the other doesn't (say Danny replaces Vinny with Holmgren who likes Zorn), but those are pretty case specific.

Any of the coaches with rings is going to require a GM of their choosing -- and its not likely to be Vinny.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Vinny and The Owner are here to stay ... till death do us part.

Posted by: dcsween | March 10, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Do we know if the WCO was something DS really wanted or did Vinny convince him it was the way to be successful?

Posted by: will_ga | March 10, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

'...PATS PICK UP BODDEN...'


Bodden, like Shawn "Jerry" Spring(er), and Fred "Not Related to Jason" Taylor will go to the pats, play hurt, excel, preach team, take pay cuts, watch Brady sling darts to Moss, and cry after the AFC championship at Heinz Field in mid- January next winter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Ram's Cut Pace:

Even @ 33 yrs old, or if Pace was on crutches.
I'd still take Pace over Jansen, any day of the week, and especially on Sundays.

Posted by: dashriprock | March 10, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Overall, the NFC East didn't improve this offseason relative to other divisions. The Skins and iggles both let aging talent move on. All the teams lost role players. Only the Skins picked up top talent -- which sounds good -- but we're also the team with the most holes to fill.

I don't see the NFC East being as tough as its been in recent years. 12-4 wins it, 6-10 for the bottom team. While that sounds good, the NFC East plays the AFC West -- where an 8-8 record won the division. Lots of NFC East wins there, about .500 vs the rest of the league.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Since we are talking linebackers... I saw a comment in recent post about Chris Wilson saying (in his opinion) he is ready to start at LDE. Out of curiosity, I looked up his stats, and he is listed at 6'4" and only 245 lbs - at that size, my first thought was "too undersized to play end in our system, but could he be converted to a strong-side backer instead?" Marcus Washington was a DE in college and he made the transition, maybe Wilson could too? He has prototype size for that role (same as Marcus).. I'm just not sure if he has had any previous experience in covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield. Thoughts? Am I crazy, or would this make sense?

Posted by: PDXskin | March 10, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins have re-signed reserve linebacker Alfred Fincher, the team announced today.Contract terms were not immediately available."

League minimum + ham sandwich

Posted by: dcsween | March 10, 2009 5:23 PM

Not likely. This would put the 'Skins over the salary cap by ham sandwich.

With the league minimum, Fincher can buy a truckload of ham sandwiches, anyway.

League min is more than all of us who have posted in the last two days, put together, are worth. (Pdiddy hasn't posted, right?) Maybe less than we're paid, but more than we're worth.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2 you have a great imagination!

The quote was:
"The real question is what is the threshold for Vinny/Zorn to keep their jobs. 9-7 and squeaking into the playoffs probably isn't enough to keep their jobs."

The answer is yes.

Not sure where this came from:
"Its not super bowl or bust, but its definitely playoffs or bust, and if its only sneak in as a wild card and lose immediately with another year of piss poor offense when the only reason you hired Zorn was to finally bring a legit offense to town after years of Gibbs run run pass ball."

Haven't played the 2009 season yet in case you didn't notice, so we really don't know if the offense gels or is "piss poor". Thanks for keeping the fiath, though.

There's a dozen fantasy scenarios that can be conjured up to get us in the playoffs at 9-7. How about - we have some major injuries in the first few games, but rally to 9-7 and make the playoffs?

We could do this all night, but why waste the time?

Posted by: edvar | March 10, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

I really do believe that if Zorn does not get this team into the playoffs, and win a post season game, he and Vinny will not be back next year. Bill Cower will want to be back in coaching next year, and I can't think of any other coach that could really take this team over like Cower could. I think his passion and attitude is just what we need.
What are some of your thoughts on this? My fellow skins!

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 5:51 PM | Report abuse

I can't think of any other coach that could really take this team over like Cower could.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 5:51 PM

Not much flexibility to make the team over unless the uncapped year changes all the rules. Cowher would rather go to a team which is not so constrained by the ridiculous contracts which have boxed this team into a corner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

Not much flexibility to make the team over unless the uncapped year changes all the rules. Cowher would rather go to a team which is not so constrained by the ridiculous contracts which have boxed this team into a corner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 5:55 PM |

I think i read that Cower was interviewed for the job just before Zorn was hired.
So, there must be some interest there.
Mabey it's just wishfull thinking, but I would love to have him.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

I just read on ESPN that the Rams released Orlando Pace. Maybe the Skins can sign him for league minimum.

Posted by: TheJury | March 10, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

That would be a good thing for the short term (one year) while we can develope a young starter.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Agree. One year deal makes sense for a 33 year old. He will definitely help our offensive line.

Posted by: TheJury | March 10, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Cowher isn't the only choice. Holmgren and Shanahan learned the WCO at the feet of Bill Walsh -- and both won Super Bowls. Gruden's been a good coach in Tampa and Oakland -- and has a ring. Dungy is a class act, a Gibbs type of guy, and will get offers on the day he decides to ride again.

With these guys out there, its hard to see how Zorn keeps his job without a successful season.

Cowher, like Gibbs, isn't about pricey talent. The cap issues aren't a problem for Cowher.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Skins have holes to fill. We'll see what happens, but my guess is Pace goes elsewhere. Wouldn't be shocked to see him in New Orleans or Carolina.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-44/Finding-context-in-the-Stafford-debate.html

The formula takes into account three statistics: Career starts, completion percentage and touchdown-interception ratio. The theory is that experience, accuracy and production versus mistakes can provide substantive indicators for college quarterbacks.

Formula Explanation
ESPN Research developed this formula to measure quarterbacks relative to a baseline completion percentage of 60 and a touchdown-interception ratio of 2.25. The multipliers allow each figure to have equal weight with career starts, which provides an important measure of experience.
The total score is the sum of the three adjusted figures.

The separate parameters for BCS and non-BCS quarterbacks help level the statistical playing field. They are based on the assumption that NFL-caliber quarterbacks playing against non-BCS opponents are going to have inflated numbers.



For those mathematically inclined -- it took me 10 readings to get it after having nightmare flashbacks to eighth-grade algebra -- below is the formula itself. (Note: This is the updated, corrected version. The formula in the original post was incomplete. Thanks to SwampThing86 and a few others for the heads-up.)

For BCS quarterbacks
(Career Starts x 0.5) + [(Career completion pct. - 60)x5] +[(Career touchdown-INT ratio - 2.25)x10]

For non-BCS quarterbacks
(Career Starts x 0.5) + [(Career completion pct. - 60)x2.5] + [(Career touchdown-INT Ratio - 2.25)x5]

(For a complete explanation of the formula, see the text box on your right.)

To test the formula, ESPN Research plugged in the 31 quarterbacks taken in the first round over the past 12 drafts, dating back to 1997. The results are below.

You'll see the quarterbacks broken into three categories. If their college statistics translated into a value of 20 or more, there was a strong likelihood for success. (Alex Smith and Tim Couch notwithstanding.) A value between 1 and 19 essentially meant "iffy."

But the most revealing category were those quarterbacks who finished with a value of 0 or less. Every one of them failed as NFL quarterbacks. Take a look:

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Scores of First-Round Quarterbacks, 1997-2008
Group I: Strong likelihood of success
Player School Draft year Score
Matt Leinart USC 2006 64.04
Philip Rivers NC State 2004 48.44
Tim Couch Kentucky 1999 47.64
Alex Smith Utah 2005 44.88
Aaron Rodgers California 2005 40.58
Peyton Manning Tennessee 1998 39.47
Jason Campbell Auburn 2005 38.75
Byron Leftwich Marshall 2003 36.39
Ben Roethlisberger Miami (Ohio) 2004 33.85
Chad Pennington Marshall 2000 33.53
Daunte Culpepper Central Florida 1999 30.00
David Carr Fresno State 2002 23.97
Joe Flacco Delaware 2008 23.92
Eli Manning Ole Miss 2004 23.14
Donovan McNabb Syracuse 1999 21.62
Group II: Hit-or-Miss
Player School Draft year Score
Brady Quinn Notre Dame 2007 18.93
JaMarcus Russell LSU 2007 18.64
Rex Grossman Florida 2003 18.39
Vince Young Texas 2006 18.21
Carson Palmer USC 2003 16.35
Matt Ryan Boston College 2008 9.14
Patrick Ramsey Tulane 2002 9.06
J.P. Losman Tulane 2004 7.86
Jay Cutler Vanderbilt 2006 2.39
Group III: Busts
Player School Draft year Score
Akili Smith Oregon 1999 0.00
Cade McNown UCLA 1999 -6.41
Joey Harrington Oregon 2002 -6.85
Michael Vick Virginia Tech 2001 -11.32
Ryan Leaf Washington St. 1998 -16.92
Jim Druckenmiller Virginia Tech 1997 -20.25
Kyle Boller California 2003 -50.67

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

This formula alone should dictate to the redskins that they need to give campbell at least this year and next with zorn. He achieved a very high rating, close to that of manning and higher than roethlisburger, even though he had a different offense to learn every year. We need to be patient with him, because every quarterback is going to struggle at some point, and the rookie we draft is going to go through the same thing. Campbell is every thing you look for physically in a QB, he is pretty mobile, has a gun and is fairly accurate on most of his throws, he rarely misses throws. He has some problems with timing (especialy on the short routes), and he needs to be a more vocal leader but that is nothing that cant be fixed by more time with zorn in his O, and a pep talk from Joe Theisman

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Where is Colt Brennen in this list?

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

oh. Now i see it was for first rounders. My bad.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

We need to be patient with him, because every quarterback is going to struggle at some point, and the rookie we draft is going to go through the same thing. Campbell is every thing you look for physically in a QB, he is pretty mobile, has a gun and is fairly accurate on most of his throws, he rarely misses throws. He has some problems with timing (especialy on the short routes), and he needs to be a more vocal leader but that is nothing that cant be fixed by more time with zorn in his O, and a pep talk from Joe Theisman

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:22 PM

I agree, and I hope that one more year under Zorn will make JC a better QB.
I would also love to see Colt Brennen given a chance to beat out JC.
Competition can be a healthy thing.
MADDEN did nothing but rave about the guy in the HOF game. Even went as far as to compare him to Joe Theisman.
Who knows what we might have here. Let's give him a shot!!!
I love a gunslinger. Someone not afraid to throw the deep one.
JC always looks like he is afraid to take a chance and let his receivers make plays.
He always seems to hold the ball to long,and seems to look confused at times.
I, like most all of us, just want a QB to be excited about.
I just don't feel it with JC.
I always feel about as scared as JC looks when he's in the pocket.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Insert 2009 Washington Redskins as an addendum to Washington Nationals.


Asked when the recession will end, Bernanke said: "My forecasting ability on this recession has been about as good as the win-loss percentage of the Washington Nationals," said Bernanke, referring to the baseball team that finished in last place last season.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan is a decent QB, he brings energy to the game. The problem with him is that we would be so limited in the pass game. You think this year was simplified, wait till we put Brennan in, he can make throws more than 20 yds down field or throw out routes. When the D doesn't even have to think about that we wont survive. He will be a top 3 backup QB for the next 12 years, provided he stays in the same system, but he can't carry a team for a whole season, and he's not that accurate, if you recall Zorn said that most of his throws were vicinity throws, where the reciever made the play. Kudos to him for having the balls, but he doesn't have the arm to start for the skins

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

If they decide not to draft a tackle this year then they really should consider signing Pace for 1-2 years. He is better than the Kendall option was at guard.

Unfortunately, given their current situation I believe they would be better off leveraging the future to some extent to obtain higher round picks in this year's draft.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell Auburn 2005 38.75
Byron Leftwich Marshall 2003 36.39"

Forget Colt. Sign Leftwich. Let Colt compete with Collins for 3rd. Let them all compete this year and next and if they don't pan out draft a new one.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 6:48 PM | Report abuse

And to adress the Rocky Mcintosh topic, the reason he broke down this year is clear. The offseason before last, Gibbs last offseason with the team, Rocky worked hard all winter learning the system, scouting teams and getting stronger. As a result, he was pretty damn good the whole season, might have been our 2nd or 3rd best defender, until he ripped up his knee. His injury didn't allow him to do the things he wanted to do, as he had to focus all of his energy just to get back. You are going to see the new rocky this year, he isn't going to be coming off a surgery, probably too soon, and he will have all winter to improve. Same thing happened to Rogers, he started excellent but wore down because he wasn't ready for 16 games after his injury

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

" ready to start at LDE. Out of curiosity, I looked up his stats, and he is listed at 6'4" and only 245 lbs - at that size, my first thought was "too undersized to play end in our system, but could he be converted to a strong-side backer instead?" Thoughts? Am I crazy, or would this make sense?

Posted by: PDXskin | March 10, 2009"

Yes, we have all been wondering why they haven't tried that with Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson for that matter?

The answer can only be that they guy lacks the tackling ability required to be in there against the run. Why can't he learn?
Jason LaCanfora should ask Blache as soon as possible and report the answer here.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 6:52 PM | Report abuse

"You are going to see the new rocky this year, he isn't going to be coming off a surgery, probably too soon, and he will have all winter to improve. Same thing happened to Rogers, he started excellent but wore down because he wasn't ready for 16 games after his injury

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009"

Let's hope you are right. But unlike Rogers this problem has persisted from College. Not sure it is going away anytime soon.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

rb-free, good effort, but no way pettigrew goes that high in the first, no way A. Smith goes before J. Smith. I can't see that happening.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 10, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse
-------------------

Greg,

That's why I think Buffalo is a prime candidate to trade down. They know they can get Pettigrew later but it still has to be the 1st round.

I have A. Smith going to Cleveland because Cleveland needs a Right Tackle and I have J. Smith going to Cincinnati 1 pick later because Cinci needs a Left Tackle to groom to take over for Levi Jones. In the meantime, J. Smith can play the right side for Cinci.

Which is another reason the Skins will take A. Smith if he falls to them at 13 -- they are looking for someone to play the right side, where he fits in.

Eugene Monroe, J. Smith, and Michael Oher are supposed to be good candidates to play LT; A. Smith is viewed as a RT who is better at run blocking than gaurding the QBs blind side.

Posted by: rb-freedom-for-all | March 10, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

Sure he had bad knees in college, but he sure seemed fine to me for the pre season + first 10 games of 07. You will see, it is all a matter of conditioning. Thats where injuries come from, somebody is a bit out of shape, their running style compensates, they develop bad habit boom hamstring pull. Rocky just started to wear down this year, and he had nagging injuries because of it. Whenever you see somebody bitten by the "injury bug," dont be fooled, he isnt unlucky, he is lazy, all injuries outside of broken bones and having youre knee/ankle rolled up on are due to bad conditioning

Posted by: DaFunBunch | March 10, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Pat White from WVU will be the big surprise in the draft just like Steve Slaton was last year.

Posted by: kenobill | March 10, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Demetric Evans would have been the natural choice to slide into the starting role. But alas he signed with the San Francisco 49ers, essentially because the Redskins showed no interest in him. This is what Evans had to say, and I think its quite striking, “You see how they operate in free agency, and I'm not the kind of guy they value. Guys like me, Ryan Clark, Antonio Pierce, guys who start at the bottom and work their way up, they don't keep those guys around…”

Both Pierce and Clark have won Super Bowls after leaving the Redskins…

Another off season question also looms… the draft. The Redskins sit at the #13 spot in the first round and hold picks in the 3rd, 5th and 6th rounds. They also have a plethora of critical needs: offensive tackle, linebacker, and defensive end. They could trade down, even though it would have only minimal impact on their rookie pool allotment. However, trading down provides an opportunity to acquire depth and start developing players. However, as we saw in the 2008 draft the powers that be in Ashburn are not adept at using the picks they have.****

This about sums up the crappy FO we Skins fans have to live with now. I despise DS and VC.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Why is this a "playoff or bust" year for the Skins? This is the problem...we (fans and FO) think we're one player away. I don't think you play to lose, but why must Zorn be on the hotseat this year?

Let the man coach. Cowher was in Pittsburg for 16 years, Reid for ?, and Billick for 9...

Stay medium Danny!

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Isskinsfan...

Let's not turn Demetric Evans into Dexter Manley. Evans' comments were bushleague to me and the only one of the three I would have kept was Pierce. Fletcher is as good as Pierce. Many like to make Ryan Clark into Ronnie Lott. We're straight at the safety position.

C'mon man...report the full story.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Let the man coach. Cowher was in Pittsburg for 16 years, Reid for ?, and Billick for 9...

Stay medium Danny!

Posted by: rickyroge ****

Exactly! I think the same thing as i read the nonsense about playoffs or else. Who would want to coach the Skins with the morons they have running the franchise?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 7:50 PM | Report abuse

C'mon man...report the full story.

Posted by: rickyroge


Fair points, but the bigger story is the way the FO wants big names, not the very needed role players that have been cast adrift. Evans may have blossomed this year, especially next to AH. He'll make the whole D-line better.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Why is this a "playoff or bust" year for the Skins? This is the problem...we (fans and FO) think we're one player away. I don't think you play to lose, but why must Zorn be on the hotseat this year?

Let the man coach. Cowher was in Pittsburg for 16 years, Reid for ?, and Billick for 9...

Stay medium Danny!

Posted by: rickyroge

Its not a playoff or bust year for the team. Its a playoff or bust year for Zorn and Vinny.

It'd be easier for Danny to stay medium if his payroll was medium.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Fair points, but the bigger story is the way the FO wants big names, not the very needed role players that have been cast adrift. Evans may have blossomed this year, especially next to AH. He'll make the whole D-line better.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 7:52 PM

Look, there's plenty to blame the FO for, but this is not it. The FO had Jason Taylor at DE and with him the let Evans go. Evans has always been a role player and is likely to be one with San Francisco.

But, once they cut Taylor, they tried to get Evans back. He's the one who thought he would have a better shot with the 'Niners. Maybe he will, but it's not fair to say that the 'Skins didn't want him.

Same with Pierce. 'Skins made him. He was an undrafted free agent and he only had one good year in the league as a 'Skins starter. 'Skins made him a good offer and tried hard to keep him. He's the one who went with the Giants.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

seems to me if the Skins really wanted Pierce, Clark, Evans, Dockery the first go around, etc..
They would have kept them.

I think the secret is out though around the league. Go to the Skins to get paid, but not to win a championship. I don't blame the players for getting "their pockets straight" or for leaving to try to win big as a team. I'll always keep my eyes wide open when critiquing the team I've chosen to follow.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

From PFT, cause you do not get up to date news here: DOUGHTY STAYS WITH THE ‘SKINS
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2009, 8:01 p.m.
Redskins safety Reed Doughty, a unrestricted free agent, will sign a one-year deal to remain with the team, Doughty told David Elfin of the Washington Times.

Doughty had been negotiating with the Redskins and “a couple of other teams.”

“It’s not just the money,” Doughty said. “It’s about how much I’ll get to play and what my role will be.”

Doughty is expected to square off against Chris Horton for a starting job in 2009.

Doughty was selected by the Redskins in the sixth round of the 2006 draft. He would have been a restricted free agent, if the Redskins had extended one of the four levels of tender offers to him. The ‘Skins opted not to do so, prompting speculation that he’d sign with another team.

Doughty appeared in four games, starting three of them, in 2008 before landing on injured reserve with a pinched nerve that required back surgery.

Posted by: skins1110 | March 10, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

This is unfortunate but true. But in order to get a Haynesworth they had to release some guys, restructure some contracts and hold off on resigning some young talent to long-term contracts instead of "tendering" them. These are all draft picks not free agents. The same will be true with the future draft picks.
Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand that statement, periculum. AH is using $7 mill of cap space this year. Cutting Springs saved us $8 mill in cap space. SS played in only 9 games last year.

Who is the "young talent" that wasn't tendered? Golsten & Monty were tendered. Who did we lose? DEvans will be 30, not young, was behind Daniels, Golsten & Monty in the depth chart until Daniels was injured.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 10, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz | March 10, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

DEvans will be 30, not young, was behind Daniels, Golsten & Monty in the depth chart until Daniels was injured.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 10, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frediefritz *******

Wynn and Daniels are ancient compared to D Evans

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator: "Cowher would rather go to a team which is not so constrained by the ridiculous contracts which have boxed this team into a corner."

Interesting. You have a source for that, or just speculating?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 10, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Isskinsfan...

Let's not turn Demetric Evans into Dexter Manley. Evans' comments were bushleague to me and the only one of the three I would have kept was Pierce. Fletcher is as good as Pierce. Many like to make Ryan Clark into Ronnie Lott. We're straight at the safety position.

C'mon man...report the full story.

Posted by: rickyroge

Its not that Evans was Manley (not that left versus right would come into this), its that Evans was a good value player. He was the best DE we had this past season and by far, the best 'value' we had at DE.

We are not deep at DE. Carter is an expensive underachiever. Buzbee is, well, I have no idea what Buzbee is (or how to spell his name). Wilson was promising 2 years ago, but an ineffective disappointment last year. Jackson gave no reason to think he's anything more than 7th round talent. Daniels was a role player in 2007, is 36(?), missed all of last year and isn't even under contract.

Evans was the ONLY overachiever at DE last year. The ONLY guy who played DE and was worth the money he was paid.

As for Evans comments, yeah, he probably should have left it alone. But reality is that Evans was a good fit for this team -- a good player at a reasonable price at a position of significant need.

That's why the front office deserves the criticism its getting over Evans.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

seems to me if the Skins really wanted Pierce, Clark, Evans, Dockery the first go around, etc..
They would have kept them.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:04 PM

Except for Clark, you've got it exactly backwards. The fact is that if Pierce, Evans, Dockery had really wanted to be here, then they would have accepted the 'Skins offer.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

You have a source for that, or just speculating?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 10, 2009 8:09 PM

It is strictly my opinion and it followed a qualifier that you omitted -- that the uncapped year could change everything.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Issiskins and Czest...

Still don't understand your logic...

Could it be that Blache may not think Evans is the answer, especially so early in the offseason. Maybe they are looking at drafting a DE. We still have Jackson, and perhaps Daniels...

Also, why all this faith in Evans but less from fans with Heyer? Here's a good UFA pickup that we are trying to develop (which is rare) but some think he's not worthy.

I guess I hate how we make every ex-Skin into the biggest mistake...so not true.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

T_E -- there really is something odd about the Skins letting both Jason Taylor and Demetric Evans go. To me, it was obvious that you let Taylor go because he cost a ton of $$. He'll not get more than about $3 million in guaranteed money elsewhere (though with incentives, it may go way up) and ... he wasn't better than Evans.

However, with both gone, it created a huge vaccum. That made no sense.

Taylor saved $8.5 million vs the cap. Even using the $11million figure for remaining cap room, keeping Taylor would have meant very little money left for anyone else. In other words, Taylor had to go.

My guess is that Dockery's availability was unexpected -- and when the Skins signed him, it forced out Taylor ASAP. It still doesn't explain why the Skins treated Evans so poorly, my guess is they thought they had more cap room than they did. When Dockery signed, guys like canty became too pricey -- and Evans suddenly looked like a good deal.

Evans, feeling disrespected, goes to SF to play for Singletary, a defensive coach with a ring. Perhaps not insignificant -- SF beat the Skins at the end of the season and Evans may see SF as having a better playoff shot than the Skins.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

"I don't understand that statement, periculum. AH is using $7 mill of cap space this year. Cutting Springs saved us $8 mill in cap space. SS played in only 9 games last year."

Hall and Haynesworth add up to 12 million.
Springs is using 2.4 million in dead cap.
Washington is using 2 million in dead cap.

Their release was necessary in order to sign Haynesworth and Hall therefore they cost 16.4 million against the cap.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Since Washington is still getting 2 mil in dead cap it makes one wonder why he is so against resigning a contract which could have performance based bonuses built in?

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

If they resign Washington it would drop to 14.4 million against the cap.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 8:36 PM | Report abuse

"Evans, feeling disrespected, goes to SF to play for Singletary, a defensive coach with a ring. Perhaps not insignificant -- SF beat the Skins at the end of the season and Evans may see SF as having a better playoff shot than the Skins.Posted by: zcezcest1"

Evans felt he deserved a starting job coming into the season, and the Skins wouldn't give it to him. Fact is, despite his strong play last year, they didn't think he was the answer. He suspected the team was hoping to hang on to him until something better came along.

So he took his chances elsewhere.

As to SF's prospects for the season, I'm not sanguine. Subpar quarterbacking, a fragile RB, indifferent WRs, and a defense that's put together with brown paper and string. Good thing they have a firebreather like Singletary as coach; they need one, if only to distract.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 10, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Maybe this has already been posted but here goes anyway:

DOUGHTY STAYS WITH THE ‘SKINS
Posted by Mike Florio on March 10, 2009, 8:01 p.m.
Redskins safety Reed Doughty, a unrestricted free agent, will sign a one-year deal to remain with the team, Doughty told David Elfin of the Washington Times.

Doughty had been negotiating with the Redskins and “a couple of other teams.”

“It’s not just the money,” Doughty said. “It’s about how much I’ll get to play and what my role will be.”

Doughty is expected to square off against Chris Horton for a starting job in 2009.

Doughty was selected by the Redskins in the sixth round of the 2006 draft. He would have been a restricted free agent, if the Redskins had extended one of the four levels of tender offers to him. The ‘Skins opted not to do so, prompting speculation that he’d sign with another team.

Doughty appeared in four games, starting three of them, in 2008 before landing on injured reserve with a pinched nerve that required back surgery.

Per PFT...

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

A email from Dan Snyder I thought I should share.

From: BigDanny42069@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:19 PM
To: Alex35332
Subject: Re: I need to unload some stuff to make up for blown $$

Hello Redskins Fans The Danny here,

As you may know the Washington Redskins have been working hard to put up the best amounts of money for the most talentedest players here in the NFL level. Unforentently we has a probelm where some of the talentedest players dont wanna play for me no more even when I give them lots of money. I can't gets the money back but I got a plan to show them whats what. If you go now on my website you can get 2 jerzies fer the price of one jerzies.
For example lets say you want to get a Hall jerzies, you could take your old one from John Hall the bestest kicker we signed a while ago who we cut cuz he could not play. Or you can now get this sweet one from our new Hall, he is a Skins fan like me and that makes him the best CB in the NFL. and I will give you a free one from Jason Taylor, who was also a bestest player but he doesnt like practice so we fired him. So come get a Free Jersey at our website and lets make sure Taylor don't get a dime from my jerseys.
http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp

Posted by: alex35332 | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Let's look at 2010 ... speaking of mortgaging the future ...

AH counts 8.8 million
(steady increase to 34.2 million in 2013)
Portis counts 10.186 million (thru 2013)
Hall counts 6.5 million
Fletcher counts 7.1 million
Jansen counts 6.4 million
Moss counts 6.7 million

Each year thigs keep going up.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

By the way, if Phil Daniels holds together, he's a much more valuable player than young Demetric. That's a big if, sure.

Orlando Pace is a much better player than whoever they'll replace him with in St. Louis. But he's overpaid and under-healthy, so they're cutting the cord.

Daniels would be a one season gamble. They really love the guy, so it could happen. Or not.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Fincher? Oh, now the gaping hole at linebacker has been filled! The team is looking at Marcus Washington and Philip Daniels? Man, there's a plan. I am glad they didn't go out and blow their whole salary cap on some defensive tackle - oh wait, that's what they did and why they couldn't afford to sign Canty or Olshavsky after they did that. Now there's not a decent linebacker on the market so they're going to look at the guy who wasn't good enough to be on the roster just a few weeks ago. Hmmm. How's that o-line signing coming along? Oh wait, we don't have money to sign a decent right tackle either.

I'm just in disbelief about how the team has mis-managed this off-season, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. I am sure Heyer can play at right tackle, and it's not like they were going to cut Jansen, so they have some depth. Dockery was a decent signing. HB Blades can fill the linebacker spot and they might be able to draft a starting calibre defensive end - or maybe Buzzbee or Jackson can step up - way up. Who am I kidding? They'll re-sign Daniels, he'll end up being hurt half of the season. They'll re-sign Washington and he's due to be hurt all season. I guess either way you slice it, it's still HB and Buzzbee, then.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

I think D Evans would be a better option than a very old Wynn, or Daniels. I never said he was akin to Manley, or that the other free agents that have gone elsewhere are world beaters. I do think they have gone elswhere to be with better TEAMS. The money, believe it or not, only goes so far. IMHO.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

It still doesn't explain why the Skins treated Evans so poorly, my guess is they thought they had more cap room than they did. When Dockery signed, guys like canty became too pricey -- and Evans suddenly looked like a good deal.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 8:28 PM

Yeah, maybe the 'Skins burned their bridges with this guy. Or maybe he was just ready for a change of scenery, a new start. Singletary does seem pretty charismatic and probably knows how to sell himself to a man he wants.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 8:54 PM | Report abuse

I think D Evans would be a better option than a very old Wynn, or Daniels.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM

Skins thought so too. They only went after Wynn and Daniels after Evans turned them down.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse

peri

'...Forget Colt. Sign Leftwich. Let Colt compete with Collins for 3rd. Let them all compete this year and next and if they don't pan out draft a new one...'


Once again, you're dead on and right.

Too many things have to go right for Jason Campbell to succeed.

Being optimistic, I think things will 'click' for him.

But bringing in a younger vet as a back up, makes so much sense.

I'd explain why, but then I'd be rambling and self-posting again.

And nobody likes that.


Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Let me ask RI a question...

What if we had a piece of an offense that could score 21 points. We'd have won a SB a long time ago.

Think back...the worst thing Gibbs did was bring in Al Saunders...

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 9:00 PM | Report abuse

Mista...

Ah...Leftwich?????

Hmmmmm...not a bad QB controversy...and he's from D.C. and being a product of DC Public Schools, he would be Black jesus here in DC

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 9:02 PM | Report abuse

pdxskins

'....Chris Wilson....I looked up his stats, and he is listed at 6'4" and only 245 lbs...'

Which makes him about as big as James Harrison.

Which makes me wonder, "Why not stand him up/put his hand on the ground at left side 'backer--like Ken Harvey-- and let him rush the passer without a thought of pass responsibility?"

Maybe he gets sacks and hurries.

That's not a bad thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Think back...the worst thing Gibbs did was bring in Al Saunders...

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 9:00 PM

The way I remember it was that he brought in Al Saunders because the offense was already on life support. Saunders just pulled the plug. I thought the worst thing he did was a series of disastrous personnel misfires, starting with Brunnell.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

rickyroge

'...Black jesus here in DC...'


Ain't there one of them living on Pa. avenue already?

I hear he's trying to bring in change.

So far, that's all we're going to have left in our pockets once the taxes hit.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"Think back...the worst thing Gibbs did was bring in Al Saunders...

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009"

Saunder's offenses were known for putting a clinic on about how to go about demolishing the 3-4 defense.

He did get them into the playoffs; once he was able to get a quarterback in that understood his system (Collins). Whereas Zorn?

The defenses in the NFC east are all 3-4 so it seems to make sense.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

"Skins thought so too. They only went after Wynn and Daniels after Evans turned them down.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009"

Seems like Olshansky would have been even better but he went to Dallas instead?

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

Fincher? Oh, now the gaping hole at linebacker has been filled!
They're gasping holes Up Here, Redskinhead.
Try to keep up.

Posted by: daggar | March 10, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

"rickyroge

'...Black jesus here in DC...'


Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009"

Then Colt can be the great white hope. And Collins can be the second QB coach ...

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:21 PM | Report abuse

If they could draft Orapkho, Maybin and Oher or one of the other left tackle types. Plus a guard/center like Mack or Unger in the 2nd round...

All they would need after that would be some depth in the OL and at Linebacker. A couple of kickers and a punt returner.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

Seems like Olshansky would have been even better but he went to Dallas instead?

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:16 PM

Skins spent all their money on Haynesworth, Hall, Dockery. By the time they were looking for a DE they couldn't afford Olshansky. Demetric Evans -- $2 million -- was the most they could spend. I think Olshansky's getting about $4.5 million.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

"I think D Evans would be a better option than a very old Wynn, or Daniels. I never said he was akin to Manley, or that the other free agents that have gone elsewhere are world beaters. I do think they have gone elswhere to be with better TEAMS. The money, believe it or not, only goes so far. IMHO.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009"

Wynn is 2 years younger and a lot healthier than Daniels and a former 1st rounder ... he just isn't all that good for some reason.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

The defenses in the NFC east are all 3-4 so it seems to make sense.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:15 PM

There you go again proving that you are a moron. Only the Cowgirls run a 3-4. The Gints and the Iggles both run a 4-3, so do we.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

re: LDE. Cap space is at a premium right now. Evans' contract sounds like it would've been ~$1M additional cap hit -- I could easily see the team saying, "we can't sign you this week, will you wait until next Friday", to which his answer was "Nancy Pelosi, nom nom nom... Me and Brad Pitt are gonna tag that!" [50 years ago, it would've been 'I left my heart in San Francisco'. Of course, 50 years ago Nancy would've been a mature young woman.]

Olshansky ~$3M cap hit. Un sign able

Daniels and Wynn can get a contract that has, essentially no cap hit.

Posted by: daggar | March 10, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

rickyroge

'...the worst thing Gibbs did was bring in Al Saunders...'

Maybe.

But St Joe's personnel decisions on top of the moves to help Clueless Steve '...make his system work...' are the primary reasons why the team is in the talent, sal cap hole it's in now.

Double check the NFL drafts from 2002-2007 and what jumps out at you is that many of the players the bloggas crave from other teams were drafted during that time.

The Prince Albert signing was nothing but another hit in the pipe of wacky roster management.

The team needs to shed bad contracts and get younger, even at the expense of a couple of 3-13 seasons where it's doing nothing but stockpiling picks.

But we are where we are, so let's all get pollyanna-ish and hope for the best.

And expect the worst.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 10, 2009 9:32 PM | Report abuse

As to SF's prospects for the season, I'm not sanguine. Subpar quarterbacking, a fragile RB, indifferent WRs, and a defense that's put together with brown paper and string. Good thing they have a firebreather like Singletary as coach; they need one, if only to distract.

Posted by: Samson151

first, let me congratulate you on bringing 'sanguine' into the vocabulary of this blog. Its the blog's "word of the day"

As for Evans going to SF. The 49ers may not be anything special, but that division isn't anything special. SF finished strong after switching coaches and QBs.

Sure, AZ went to the dance, but they were 9-7 before climbing on the magic carpet. Plus, its the Cardinals. If any organization knows how to find mediocrity, its those guys (of course, having talents like Fitzgerald and Boldin makes its tougher to suck... )

Seattle had a disaster of a season and Jim Mora is a putz -- he's not filling Holmgren's shoes. StL is just in a world of hurt.

I like SF's chances in the NFC West over the Skins chances in the NFC East. Not sure which is the better team, but I'm completely clear on which is the tougher division.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

"There you go again proving that you are a moron. Only the Cowgirls run a 3-4. The Gints and the Iggles both run a 4-3, so do we.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009"

I'm not sure that was true when Gibbs brought in Saunders? Besides the teams to beat in the NFC East at the time were Dallas and then Philadelphia.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Your problem peri is that you say "are all" not were all. And anyway they were all 4-3 then also. They had they same coaches and ran the same defenses. All you are doing now is trying to talk your way around your erroneous statement. It would be easier for you to just say "I was wrong." We all do it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 9:47 PM | Report abuse

If we have a bad year and Zorn gets fired, do we really think Dan will get rid of Vinny? I just am not sure he would be let go as well. If you take Vinny away and put in a real GM Dan won't get to have as much fun and I don't see that being something he is ready to do.

This is why Zorn's job is safe because the first thing the new coach would want to do is fire vinny and danny aint going for that
see shottenheimer

Posted by: wattsicon | March 10, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm just in disbelief about how the team has mis-managed this off-season, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel. I am sure Heyer can play at right tackle, and it's not like they were going to cut Jansen, so they have some depth. Dockery was a decent signing. HB Blades can fill the linebacker spot and they might be able to draft a starting calibre defensive end - or maybe Buzzbee or Jackson can step up - way up. Who am I kidding? They'll re-sign Daniels, he'll end up being hurt half of the season. They'll re-sign Washington and he's due to be hurt all season. I guess either way you slice it, it's still HB and Buzzbee, then.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

So RedSkinHead, put up your $1B, and you can make all the decisions. And we can complain about how you mismanage your $s.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 10, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

I think D Evans would be a better option than a very old Wynn, or Daniels.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 10, 2009 8:43 PM

Skins thought so too. They only went after Wynn and Daniels after Evans turned them down.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 10, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse
Well, P Daniels beat out D EVans for starting DE every year he was healthy.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 10, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

I must thank periculum and MistaMoe for pointing out what many miss...

I LOVE Joe Gibbs, but it was his personnel decisions that put us in this hole...

Gibbs played Brunell until his arm fell off, traded picks for Duckett, and recruited saints versus football players. Give credit to Greg Williams...he had not starters on "D" and played rookied and vets.

Let's look at Gibbs 2.0 offensive weapons...

James Thrash, Antwaan Randle-El and Santana Moss....

oooooooo...I'm scared...better bring in that 4th corner....


and that's the real problem with the Skins...

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse

I cannot understand why people would advocate drafting anyone besides a RT or RG at #13. Our D-Line can survive the year, but if the O-Line is not seriously upgraded our offense will COLLAPSE as soon as the injuries begin to set-in! Deja vu all over again.

Posted by: Salinas1 | March 10, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Cowher isn't the only choice. Holmgren and Shanahan learned the WCO at the feet of Bill Walsh -- and both won Super Bowls. Gruden's been a good coach in Tampa and Oakland -- and has a ring. Dungy is a class act, a Gibbs type of guy, and will get offers on the day he decides to ride again.

With these guys out there, its hard to see how Zorn keeps his job without a successful season.

Cowher, like Gibbs, isn't about pricey talent. The cap issues aren't a problem for Cowher.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 6:13 PM

I can see the why these names were mentioned with one exception. GRUDEN? Sorry but I cant stop laughing at that one.

Jason Taylor walked away with 8.5 million in one year. DAMN! Danny gives away his jersey for free. FOR FREE? DAMN DANNY! Guess during half time well notice JT's jersey in the toilet paper rack when we're sitting on the toilet too. DAMN Danny yuz a bad dude!

Posted by: ddcarrington | March 10, 2009 10:17 PM | Report abuse

I cannot understand why people would advocate drafting anyone besides a RT or RG at #13. Our D-Line can survive the year, but if the O-Line is not seriously upgraded our offense will COLLAPSE as soon as the injuries begin to set-in! Deja vu all over again.

Posted by: Salinas1 | March 10, 2009 10:14 PM

I'm with you on that one.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

"and that's the real problem with the Skins..."

I beg to differ. This team's core players have all been put in place by Gibbs, and are more than adequate for a quality team.

The real problem is that Cerrato hit on 1 of 10 draft selections last season, and then traded 3 draft selections THIS season for 2 players that aren't currently on the roster. Heading into this offseason, this team was basically hanging on for dear life to Gibbs' personnel decisions because Cerrato added no free agents of value last year, had a 10% success rate (so far) on his draft selections, and ensured the team would be at a disadvantage by giving away nearly half of its draft selections this season.

This team is nowhere near in as dire a situation had Cerrato not missed on all 3 second round selections, missed on his only offensive line selection (even though it was known this was an issue), and didn't even give his defensive line a chance at improving through the draft (despite the same known issues).

Because of either Cerrato's neglect or his plain misses, this team is now scrambling to patch up the same issues that were present last offseason, only instead of having 10 selections to fix it, Cerrato only has 4. That has nothing to do with Gibbs.

Posted by: psps23 | March 10, 2009 10:25 PM | Report abuse

"Your problem peri is that you say "are all" not were all. And anyway they were all 4-3 then also. They had they same coaches and ran the same defenses. All you are doing now is trying to talk your way around your erroneous statement. It would be easier for you to just say "I was wrong." We all do it.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009"

"So how do you stop such a versatile and unpredictable monster? Well, if you watched the Chiefs play the Ravens on Monday Night Football in 2004 there is your answer. Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders put on a clinic that night on how to run right over the top of a 3-4. Control the nose guard and block down on the inside linebackers with your guards. For what the 3-4 has in quickness and deception it also gives up in bulk and power."

The league's 3-4 and 4-3 defenses in 2007:

• 3-4 DEFENSES
Arizona, Baltimore, Cleveland, Dallas, Miami, New England, NY Jets, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco,

"• 4-3 DEFENSES
Atlanta, Buffalo, Carolina, Chicago, Cincinnati, Denver, Detroit, Green Bay, Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Minnesota, New Orleans, NY Giants, Oakland, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Tennessee, Washington"

Dallas was running a 3-4 other than that you are correct the Giants and Eagles were 4-3.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

Disagree psps23...

This season is the one to judge on last year's draft. Zorn basically carried over Gibbs' smashmouth run game which he found out was not effective after teams figured it out.

I respect Joe Gibbs, but I think this FO takes way too many hits for Joe Gibbs' decisions.

This would be the season to rip Cerrato.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

"Because of either Cerrato's neglect or his plain misses, this team is now scrambling to patch up the same issues that were present last offseason, only instead of having 10 selections to fix it, Cerrato only has 4. That has nothing to do with Gibbs.

Posted by: psps23 | March 10, 2009"

Because of age and injury they are actually far worst than last season. Defensive tackle was one place where (given the fact that Evans could play that position) was fairly deep. It was defensive end NOT TACKLE that was at issue. As was linebacker and most imperatively the offensive line.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

That's progress peri. That's progress.

Because of age and injury they are actually far worst than last season. Defensive tackle was one place where (given the fact that Evans could play that position) was fairly deep. It was defensive end NOT TACKLE that was at issue. As was linebacker and most imperatively the offensive line.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 10:35 PM

I agree that DE was in much worse position than DT but no one feared our interior DL either. Now it's a different story. We've upgraded. I don't think anyone in there right minds can fool themselves that we are going to make a run at the big show this year. What we have done is fill a hole (left guard), strengthened a position (DT) and jettisoned some age and injury issued. Nothing was going to make us contenders this year but these moves put us in better position for the next several years. If we draft either a RT, LB, or DE in the first that can play at a high level than we are improved and can build more next year. We were never gonna win it all this year anyway.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

although aging... wouldn't Orlando Pace be an upgrade at RT?? maybe a two year band-aid until we can get a young guy...

Posted by: tony325 | March 10, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

although aging... wouldn't Orlando Pace be an upgrade at RT?? maybe a two year band-aid until we can get a young guy...

Posted by: tony325 | March 10, 2009 10:47 PM

He would probably take up space on the IR.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

"If we draft either a RT, LB, or DE in the first that can play at a high level than we are improved and can build more next year. We were never gonna win it all this year anyway.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009"

Good plan. Too bad we all know that D&V won't follow it. They will shoot for all the marbles thinking they are just a few players away.

If they don't it will be a miracle ...

Portis is going to have a severely detrimental effect on the salary cap over the next 4-5 years.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

"I LOVE Joe Gibbs, but it was his personnel decisions that put us in this hole...

Let's look at Gibbs 2.0 offensive weapons...

James Thrash, Antwaan Randle-El and Santana Moss....

and that's the real problem with the Skins...

Posted by: rickyroge | March 10, 2009"

Its hard to "divine" where Gibbs left off and Vinnie and Snidely took over. Give Gibbs credit for lobbying hard to get guys like Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, LaRon Landry and Jason Campbell (instead of just sticking with Brunell and Ramsay). He knew he would have to replace Brunell sooner rather than later.

Clearly mistakes were made ... but was Lloyd sure smells of Danny and Vinnie ... Gibbs was forced to get rid of Bailey and got Portis. Williams brought in Springs and Washington.

The D&V GM duo do not like planning for the future. Should we fault Gibbs for their flaws? He probably did the best he could to keep them in check. Succeeding and winning some battles while losing just as many.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm hoping that Snyderrato is starting to learn his lesson. I'm by no means confident that he is but at least now the high priced free agents have more than 1-2 years left on their legs. It would be assinine not to try to win this year but you can't mortgage your future for it (unless you are already close enough to taste it.) Portis's money will hurt us but the cap keeps rising and if we can find a change of pace back to spell him then we can extend his life. He's still a beast when healthy. 2 years ago he got better as the season went on, last year not so much. If he gets some plays off he could return to form, although he will never blow anybodies doors off in a footrace.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

"This season is the one to judge on last year's draft."

I don't deny that. It doesn't change the fact that they haven't panned out yet.

Right now, Cerrato added one player to this roster that the Redskins can count on this year (Horton). Sure, maybe Rinehart becomes a player. We have to give him more time to judge that. It doesn't change the fact that the Redskins had to go out and sign Derrick Dockery as the starting LG.

Can Rob Jackson become a full-time or rotational DE? Maybe. But again, it doesn't change the fact that the Skins are still looking for a starting and possibly a primary back-up at LDE.

Both of these were positions of need entering last offseason. Cerrato had 10 draft selections. This offseason, they're still positions of need. That's unacceptable to me. And that's not even taking into account the fact that this team is still lacking complimentary weapons on offense, and how we're forced to rely upon 3 guys that did nothing last season to provide that to us.

Posted by: psps23 | March 10, 2009 11:07 PM | Report abuse

The FO is not that good but I find it very interesting that every good decision is luck or someone else and every bad decision was the owner and Vinny. How do you know that Gibbs lobbied hard for the people you listed and Vinny did not (except it was reported that Vinny wanted Merriman instead of Rogers)? How do you know that Williams was responsible for Springs and Washington (to the best of my knowledge he did not previously coach either). I loved Gibbs, even during the painful second tour and defend most of his actions but he was not a great personnel guy. After all he traded two number one picks for Desmond Howard.

I do agree that the FO regardless of who has been coach never seems to have a clear plan. Hopefully that will change but I am not overly optimistic.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 10, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Scouts Inc. list of needs for the Redskins:

1st round Need 1 Need 2 Need 3 Need 4
Washington 13 RT DE C SLB

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

"After all he traded two number one picks for Desmond Howard. "

But Howard did go on to be an MVP for the Packers helping get them to the Superbowl.

What did the receivers Vinnie helped select in the 1st round do?

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

"He's still a beast when healthy. 2 years ago he got better as the season went on, last year not so much. If he gets some plays off he could return to form, although he will never blow anybodies doors off in a footrace.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 10, 2009"

He is already at the shelf life for most running backs. He won't last beyond next year as a starter. He will end up like LT.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm I wonder if the former "cap-o-logist" of the Redskins would be willing to answer the question of what decisions belong to Gibbs/Williams and the rest of the coaching staff and which belong to that irrepressible duo the Snyderatos ...

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Last years Skins team had tremendous starting talent. A few holes, but not too many.

Thing is, they had very limited depth. It wasn't hard to see many of the risks.

Jansen and Thomas had both missed bunches of time, while Kendall was 35. So did they draft OL? 1 guy, Reinhart, in round 3.

Marcus was often injured. Springs had been an injury risk for most of his career. Rogers and Rocky were both returning from serious injuries. Did they draft CB and LB? 1 guy, Tryon in round 4.

Griffin was a beast when healthy, but health hadn't been his strong point. Did they draft a DT? No

Moss's hammies have never finished a season as good as they started it. Did they draft WRs? Yup, but they didn't pan out, at least so far.

PSPS, you are correct when you assign Vinny a bunch of the blame. The problems were predictable, he simply failed to address them.

Colt Brennan, Derrick Frost and Fred Davis were particularly mystifying picks.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

"Colt Brennan, Derrick Frost and Fred Davis were particularly mystifying picks.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009"

And that has to be the fear ... that Vinnie will convince Snidely to trade down to give him more picks to waste on questionable and mediocre talent.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:25 PM | Report abuse

They should trade Campbell for Cutler and sign him long term.

Posted by: dodo1939 | March 10, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

That's great for GB but what did he do for the Redskins. So I guess Timmy Smith was worth two first round picks because he helped the Redskins win one superbowl. I didn't realize that the value of draft picks was dependent on whether or not they had one "career" year. Silly me I thought someone worth two first would at least be a full-time starter.

As for last year's draft I never said I agreed with Vinny's draft. I agree with most others who felt they should have tried to go O or D line earlier although WR is/was definitely a need. However I think it is way too early to judge whether or not Davis, Thomas, and/or Kelly will work out.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 10, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

The San Diego Chargers jumped into free agency by signing Dallas linebacker Kevin Burnett.
Burnett, who hails from Southern California, chose San Diego over several teams including Oakland and Green Bay. Burnett will likely be given a chance to win a starting job at inside linebacker.

He has four career starts and he started two games for Dallas last season. Burnett is considered an interesting prospect because he is young and he has shown promise. The Chargers had hoped Anthony Waters would blossom into a starter but he was cut this offseason.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:28 PM | Report abuse

From the "Beast Chat":

Jermaine (Geneva , NY): Who or what was to blame for the collapse of the Redskins in the Second have of the season?

SportsNation Matt Mosley: The collapse of the O-line. You're going to get burned when you head into the season with aging starters such as Kendall, Randy Thomas and Jansen. I know Jansen was starting at first, but you know what I'm saying.

M (DC): Redskins have big needs at LDE, SLB and RT. Which need will they fill with their pick 13?

SportsNation Matt Mosley: pass rush, pass rush, pass rush

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:31 PM | Report abuse

Al (Montreal): Who is the ideal pass rusher that the Skins can grab at #13...

SportsNation Matt Mosley: Al, I've watched Brian Orakpo the last couple years. Powerful man with the ability to terrify quarterbacks. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Vince (DC): So if it was the O-line that killed the Skins last year, why spend a hight draft pick on a pass rusher? Their defense was top 5 in the NFL. Thanks.

SportsNation Matt Mosley: Vince, signing Derrick Dockery helps you because he upgrades one of those guard spots. You have a healthy Chris Samuels hopefully coming back at LT. No problems with Rabach up the middle. Do you really want to spend the No. 13 pick on a right tackle prospect? Good Times Vinny said Haynesworth makes everyone around him better. Why not put a talented young guy around him instead of Phillip Daniels and Co.

Kevin (Golden, CO): Can Maualuga play SAM LB and would the Skins consider him to start at SAM right now and slide into the MLB spot when Fletcher is done?

SportsNation Matt Mosley: This team is trying to generate a pass rush. They're not focused on the SAM. Maualauga won't end up in DC, although he's a tremendous prospect. You have MAC, Fletch and the Blade. You go find another talented guy later in the draft. You don't spend your No. 13 pick on a guy who might have three sacks at the most.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:32 PM | Report abuse

Rob (Laredo,TX): Hey Mr. Mosley! Big fan. How do you feel about the Haynesworth signing, and why didnt they keep Jason Taylor atleast for the last year of his contract? He might have been pretty good paired with Haynesworth.

SportsNation Matt Mosley: Rob: I think Haynesworth is one of the most dominating defensive tackles I've ever watched. He can absolutely take over football games. But I would only spend that type of money on a quarterback or a high sack total guy like Ware. The Redskins wanted to keep Taylor , but there was a disagreement over offseason workouts. I think the Redskins will regret the stance they took. They brought in the game's best DT and they're surrounding him with 36-year-old Phil Daniels and a 30-something Andre Carter. You have to do better than that.

Rob (Laredo, TX): Hey Mr. Mosley. Whats your take on the Redskins Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas?

SportsNation Matt Mosley: Thomas has tremendous speed and enormous potential. I think he has a questionable work ethic and that could bite him in the rear. Actually already has. Kelly was a excellent college receiver. But I fear that he might be the type player who's always in the training room. So far, we've found out zip about these guys. Same goes for the TE. last year's draft looks pretty bad -- based on the evidence we've seen to this point.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

"They should trade Campbell for Cutler and sign him long term.

Posted by: dodo1939 | March 10, 2009"

Might as well bring back Patrick Ramsay to back him up too. That would be a dodo move if ever ... :)

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:38 PM | Report abuse

I thought the Skins never made Evans an offer, so he decided to sign with the 49ers (as a backup DE) for 2mil/yr. He was not as effective as Carter over the past two years. In fact, Evans best year was equivalent statically to Carter's worst. My guess is the coaches decided Jackson was a younger/less expensive prospect as a backup LDE...

Demetric Evans

Season  	Team  	 	                        Tackles
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef
2008 Washington Redskins 16 11 33 20 13 3.5 -- 2
2007 Washington Redskins 16 1 25 18 7 1.0 -- 3
2006 Washington Redskins 16 0 16 14 2 2.0 -- 1
Andre Carter
Season  	Team  	 	                        Tackles  
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef
2008 Washington Redskins 16 14 37 23 14 4.0 -- 1
2007 Washington Redskins 16 16 55 43 12 10.5 1 2
2006 Washington Redskins 16 16 56 47 9 6.0 -- 2

Posted by: siris | March 10, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

"That's great for GB but what did he do for the Redskins. So I guess Timmy Smith was worth two first round picks because he helped the Redskins win one superbowl. I didn't realize that the value of draft picks was dependent on whether or not they had one "career" year. Silly me I thought someone worth two first would at least be a full-time starter.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 10, 2009"

That's not the point. The point is he wasn't a total waste like the other wide outs that were selected in the 1st round after him. In fact ot seemed like he did pretty well after Norv released him.

Vinnie's picks are usually a total waste 8 times out of 10. And those that aren't are usually mediocre.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

I supported Vinny's strategy of picking two WRs in last year's draft because it was an area of need. I liked that he went big. However, I don't follow the college game, so I had no opinion on Kelly or Thomas (or any of the guys picked).

I'd posted my draft recommendations prior to the draft. It had almost all OL, LB and DL, with a slot or two for DB or WR (though I thought WR was better handled by trade or FA -- my relentless pursuit of Boldin had the upside of irritating the heck out of Beantown) or DB.

So what happened? We lost 2 DE's on day 1, while Taylor and Griff were hurt for much of the year. We lost Marcus at LB and the entire OL was banged up.

Thing is, it was PREDICTABLE!!! I simply looked at what was probable ... and most of it happened.

Sooooooo ... I do blame Vinny for 2008. When I look at 2009, I don't see him solving enough of the problems we have.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

Siris, can you redo that chart using $/sack, $/tackle, etc?

In 2008, Evans and Carter had the same year statistically.

Evans and Carter didn't have the same paycheck.

Evans actually had the better year since I think he played less (sharing time with Taylor or on at DT, where sacks aren't as likely).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

If you go OL with the 13th pick it really has to be for a starting left tackle (a need of the Eagles as well) not a right tackle. Moving Samuels to the right side.

Otherwise it seems likely they will go for a DE like Maybin at 13.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, being reported that Cutler and the Broncos are not seeing eye to eye. Not sure that Cutler will get traded, but its not likely he's coming to the NFC East.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 10, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Given the Skins complete reluctance to make an offer to Evans you almost have to predict a defensive end at #13 to go with their FA pickup Haynesworth.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

And, next year, the OL will collapse perhaps far worst than this year.

Posted by: periculum | March 10, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Total waste 8 out of 10 times, where did that stat come from? The last I checked he only had 10 picks once. Just off the top of my head I would say Taylor, Landry, Campbell, Macintosh, Cooley, Horton, Montgomery, Golston and Doughty are not total wastes. Could there have been some better picks, absolutely, but total wastes, no way.

Anybody have any idea what the normal success rate of draft picks is for GMs?

By the way even appearing to defend Vinny's drafts makes me feel a little quesy.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 10, 2009 11:57 PM | Report abuse

Holes are at tackle, guard, center, DE and OLB. So ...

At 13, if the Skins don't move up, they take best available from OL, DE and LB. My recommendation is to move up and get the best LT or RT they can.


Not sure about moving Samuels to RT. I think its probably easier for an OT to move from one side to the other than a DE (see Taylor, Jason or Doleman, Chris). But I don't know enough about it for an OT. Skins history says it can work -- its not like Jacoby wasn't tested (see White, Reggie)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009 12:00 AM | Report abuse

"Total waste 8 out of 10 times, where did that stat come from? The last I checked he only had 10 picks once. Just off the top of my head I would say Taylor, Landry, Campbell, Macintosh, Cooley, Horton, Montgomery, Golston and Doughty are not total wastes. Could there have been some better picks, absolutely, but total wastes, no way."

Except for Horton which of these did Gibbs and coaches pick and which were Vinnie's? He was not even VP as he is now then? And now he is still not the VP, Snyder is.

My suspicion is that he was in charge of the lower round picks ... so maybe you do get a Montgomery and Golston but you also lost at least 3 offensive linemen, 2 tackles chosen and later released.

Posted by: periculum | March 11, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

"Not sure about moving Samuels to RT. I think its probably easier for an OT to move from one side to the other than a DE (see Taylor, Jason or Doleman, Chris). But I don't know enough about it for an OT. Skins history says it can work -- its not like Jacoby wasn't tested (see White, Reggie)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009"

It would probably extend his career as it did for big Jake. Given the length of his contract and the amount he will be paid it would be a good thing for all concerned.

Posted by: periculum | March 11, 2009 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Vinny's ability to find talent isn't better or worse than most guys, as best as I can tell. Most picks are risky. We've done well in round 1 (ST21, LL, Rogers, Campbell -- no busts, 3 solid and 1 who coulda been HOF). Vinny has also picked up some talent at the low end of the draft.

2008 was an aberration, what appears to be an unusually bad draft, as least so far.

What Vinny does poorly is understand where the problems are and how to approach solving them.

How does Fred Davis gets picked instead of an OL? OL is aging, has multiple guys with recent major injuries and little depth. TE has a young Pro Bowl player signed for the next 5 years.

Fred Davis is exhibit A for Vinny's 'not getting it'.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009 12:07 AM | Report abuse

Actually last year's draft wasn't too bad... 9 out of 10 draft picks are still on the roster and one (SS Horton) was a starter:

Thomas
Kelly
Davis
Rinehart
Tryon
Moore
Jackson
Brennen
Horton


The Skins should expect more contributions and better production from all of them this year.

Posted by: siris | March 11, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

The smoking gun.
An example of Snyderato (pre-Gibbs) at their best:

"Notable: Uh, you mean besides the fact the Redskins had just three picks, a league low this year, largely because they acquired four restricted free agents and traded for tailback Trung Canidate?
Will start as a rookie: No one, but Taylor Jacobs (No. 2) as a viable chance to be the third wide receiver. That's in part because he played for coach Steve Spurrier at Florida, but more so because he is a talented guy.
Best value: Most teams ranked Jacobs a first-round playet but he slipped when some scouts perceived he isn't quite tough enough. To land him in the second round is a real steal.
Boom or bust: Quarterback Gibran Hamdan (No. 7) is big and strong-armed but still a developmental project.

Posted by: periculum | March 11, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

My guess is that picks were overwhelmingly Vinny's since Gibbs' role as coach wouldn't leave much time for scouting the colleges. FA is less clear, since Gibbs would see the NFL guys on film every week

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis is exhibit A for Vinny's 'not getting it'.

Posted by: zcezcest1
_____________________

First of all, we were a playoff team with most of our starting team back last year. The only real need heading into last years draft was WR and OL depth. A TE was a luxury but had we suffered an injury to Cooley, who is a HUGE part of this team, many would be saying that by only have Yoder on the team we should have addressed TE with one of our 10 picks. You can't have it both ways. When drafting for depth you need to take the best available player at a position that depth is needed. Thats why we took 2 safeties, yet we didn't have a need at draft time. Once the season opened up and injuries popped up they both played.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | March 11, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

But I agree (in hindsight) that Ceratto could have addressed the LB and RT depth in last year's draft.

At the time, the Skins had more important positions to fill: #2 WR, SS, #3 QB, P + plus they did select Rinehart (in the 3rd round) as a future G/T.

Posted by: siris | March 11, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

In point of fact many questioned the Kelly pick stating that both lines desperately lacked depth. Soon to be realized with the loss of Philip Daniels and injuries later to both Heyer and Samuels. Most picks after Thomas should have been OL, DE, or LB.

Posted by: periculum | March 11, 2009 12:23 AM | Report abuse

Has our crack RI staff reported yet on the re-signing of Reed Doughty?

Posted by: outsider6 | March 11, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

The Skins should expect more contributions and better production from all of them this year.

Posted by: siris
_______________________

Agreed. Rinehart is a guy who Bugel said has a chance to step up now that he's caught up to the game speed after the adjustment from his level of play in college to the NFL. Not uncommon for the NFL. Many on here want to declare this pick a miss because LaCanfora says its a bad pick, yet everyone was clamoring for us to sign a couple of free agent OLmen this year that were backups for 2 or 3 years and started coming into their own this past year. Point is, some OL take their time to develop and he wasn't drafted to start immediately. Given another half year to sit behind Thomas I think he'll be able to step into the lineup next year. Let's be realistic, they didn't draft him to start last year or this year, so whether he played at all last year is irrelevant.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | March 11, 2009 12:26 AM | Report abuse

"Vinny's ability to find talent isn't better or worse than most guys, as best as I can tell. Most picks are risky. We've done well in round 1 (ST21, LL, Rogers, Campbell -- no busts, 3 solid and 1 who coulda been HOF). Vinny has also picked up some talent at the low end of the draft.

2008 was an aberration, what appears to be an unusually bad draft, as least so far.

What Vinny does poorly is understand where the problems are and how to approach solving them."

Yep, zcezcest's got it. I got ripped a little here for "defending" Cerrato a couple months ago, but I maintain my stance that I took then:

Cerrato is actually a decent to good talent evaluator. He's a glorified scout. What he's not is a general manager that understands every other aspect of building a team. And therein lies the problem. Too few draft selections, incorrect distribution of selections across needs, and incorrect philosophy when it comes to prioritizing positions. Any team's going to have trouble with that.

Posted by: psps23 | March 11, 2009 12:28 AM | Report abuse

In point of fact many questioned the Kelly pick stating that both lines desperately lacked depth. Soon to be realized with the loss of Philip Daniels and injuries later to both Heyer and Samuels. Most picks after Thomas should have been OL, DE, or LB.

Posted by: periculum | March 11, 2009 12:23 AM
___________________________

It's widely known that because of his contract Jansen wasn't getting cut until after this season is complete. They drafted an OG in the 3rd round. Heyer won the starting job out of camp and Jansen was a more than servicable backup. They had room on the roster to draft maybe 1 more OL. That's it. Fabini was staying as he backed up two positions and they liked Geisinger. So why waste a draft pick by taking multiple OL when you were only going to cut them?

Also, while Daniels got hurt, they also lost Buzbee, who they were high on and thought was better with a year in their system then any DE they could have drafted. Wilson had a good season the year before as a situational rusher and they drafted Jackson late. If Buzbee didn't get hurt, Jackson probably would have been cut or practice squaded. He made the roster due to injury. Again, you can't take draft picks just to cut them. It makes no sense.

I agree, they should have drafted a LB instead of Tryon IMO. But aside from that, I don't have a problem with the way they drafted last year. I could be wrong but you can't make that determination until after this year and probably after next.

Posted by: 6-2StackMonster | March 11, 2009 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Actually last year's draft wasn't too bad... 9 out of 10 draft picks are still on the roster and one (SS Horton) was a starter:

Posted by: siris

Consider that all 10 picks made the team a monument to indecision -- we don't know if the guy is any good or not -- not a nod to talent.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009 2:39 AM | Report abuse

WR-TE-WR.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | March 11, 2009 2:48 AM | Report abuse

WHAT?

It's 3:00AM EST and there's no new Redskins post!

Slackers.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | March 11, 2009 2:56 AM | Report abuse

6-2StackMonster

just disagree with your analysis. Drafts should be predicated on reality, and reality is that a set of odds accompany each pick. Its not hard to figure out the odds. Look back over 10 years and see how many 2nd round WRs became top flight players (a Fitzgerald or Moss), solid starters (a toomer or Welker), useful WRs (Randle El), fill out the roster (Thrash as of now) or busts (Lloyd). There are your odds.

If you want to solve the WR issue, you look at trades, FA and the draft. Turns out solving the WR issue by drafting 2 WRs had a bit less than a 50/50 chance of getting a solid starter.

As for drafting Fred Davis, you simply don't draft that high for a guy who's upside is only realized if Cooley gets injured. Cooley is a young, durable, Pro Bowl player. Fred Davis, if everything goes right, isn't even a talent upgrade over Cooley. He's on the bench barring injury, and Cooley is among the less likely players to get injured.

Use a #2 pick to get a starter for someone who is on his way down, whether its due to age, injuries or a combination. Expect the draft pick to take 2 years to become a quality player. Who on the Skins had 2-3 years left or less? Lots of guys, but certainly not Cooley.

In 2009, the Skins have let go of Jason Taylor (DE), Shawn Springs (CB), Demetric Evans (DE) and Marcus Washington (LB). In 2008, they drafted 1 CB and 1 DE.

Could the Skins FO looked ahead and decided these players were 'at risk'? YES!!! Springs was getting old by CB standards, drew a large salary and had injury issues. Marcus also had a big salary and injury issues. Philip Daniels was old (and Taylor, who replaced him was old and expensive). Evans contract ended after 2008.

Skins mgmt could have looked ahead prior to the 2008 draft and said, 'who is at significant risk for leaving after the 2009 season?' Evans, Springs, Marcus and Daniels would have been on that list. So drafting DE (1 in the 7th round), LB (none) and CB (1 in the 4th round) would make sense.

You can have a plan ... the Skins don't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 11, 2009 3:26 AM | Report abuse

I applaud resigning Fincher, but trying to bring back Washington and Kendall is just pathetic. Move on from the old guys and get some young blood in here!

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 11, 2009 6:40 AM | Report abuse

zcwzcw:"f you want to solve the WR issue, you look at trades, FA and the draft. Turns out solving the WR issue by drafting 2 WRs had a bit less than a 50/50 chance of getting a solid starter. As for drafting Fred Davis, you simply don't draft that high for a guy who's upside is only realized if Cooley gets injured. Cooley is a young, durable, Pro Bowl player. Fred Davis, if everything goes right, isn't even a talent upgrade over Cooley. He's on the bench barring injury, and Cooley is among the less likely players to get injured."

Problem one: they drafted Thomas and Kelly not because they lacked WRs, but because they lacked WRs for the Zorn offense.

Problem two: Zorn offense needs two athletic, pass-catching TEs, not one. You run sets with both on the field. Davis is more athletic than Cooley. Todd Yoder is not.

They gambled, and for the present, looks like they lost. But it's early yet.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 11, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

zcezcest:"In 2009, the Skins have let go of Jason Taylor (DE), Shawn Springs (CB), Demetric Evans (DE) and Marcus Washington (LB). In 2008, they drafted 1 CB and 1 DE.Could the Skins FO looked ahead and decided these players were 'at risk'?YES!!!"

Another gamble. They traded for Taylor because Daniels went down and they suspected Evans would not be ready on passing downs. They hoped to move Springs to safety in 2009 a la Rod Woodson at Baltimore. They wanted to hang on to Evans but he expected a starting job. They thought they already had a guy to replace Washington.

Lots of support in the media and among fans for the Taylor move at the time. Springs and Washington were casualties of the signings of Albert and Hall (can we call that the 'Royal Albert-Hall?). Evans took the money and ran.

Are you criticizing them for taking chances or for not having succeeded?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 11, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Whats the D line look like now, AH, CG inside, Carter and ? maybe Wilson outside. With Golston, Montgomery, Buzbee as subs. I am not sure what to expect.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Whats the D line look like now, AH, CG inside, Carter and ? maybe Wilson outside. With Golston, Montgomery, Buzbee as subs. I am not sure what to expect.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:02 AM |

It's way better then last years line.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I mean if AH crashes the middle way more fumbles, tips and hopefully sacks forcing more 3rd and longs.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

Lets also hope CG can stay healthy. He is always getting hurt. I still think we need a bit more depth.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Lets also hope CG can stay healthy. He is always getting hurt. I still think we need a bit more depth.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:07 AM |

We have Golston and Montgomery for depth how many DT do you want to dress every week. You can only dress so many backups at so many positions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Anyone for signing Pace?

Yeah, I know, it's like choosing the fat kid nobody likes for the last slot on a recess dodgeball team.

But is Pace a kid we need?

He plays lt--that's Samuels slot.

And Moe wants to move Samuels to rt anyways.

Moe prefers Smith/Oher and Samuels as bookend tackles with Heyer backing up the left side and Jansen the right.

Is Pace a better choice, even if it's for a couple of seasons?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 11, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Pace would be a great pick up for mabey one year or so. Just long enough to groom a young guy for RT.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Is Pace a better choice, even if it's for a couple of seasons?Posted by: MistaMoe |

Problem is, how much of those seasons would he spend on the field, vs the injured list?

That's why the Rams cut him, not because he can't play when healthy.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 11, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

flounder21

'...We have Golston and Montgomery for depth how many DT do you want to dress every week...'

I hate to beat a dead horse, but that's why not re-signing D Evans on the cheap--before FA started-- amazed me.

If Griff gets hurt, Evans can play tackle and back up Golston/Monty or play de.

Evans wasn't a sack monster--just a guy you could use to do multiple things.

But he thinks he's finer as a forty-niner.

I wish him well.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 11, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

Unless these dudes have break out years, we will have another year of almost getting to the QB. If those guys make you feel good then fine. It looks like we have to make due. The O Line, well thats another story.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

If he could be signed for the league min., it would be worth it.I think it all depends if we draft a young stud or not.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Will we make any moves this week, or are we done till draft time? Any thoughts?

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

mista,

Evans is gone so talking about him, is not helping the situation at hand.

A healthy Daniels last year means Evans hardly plays.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Unless these dudes have break out years, we will have another year of almost getting to the QB. If those guys make you feel good then fine. It looks like we have to make due. The O Line, well thats another story.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:25 AM |

Who would you have signed to get to the QB just curious.

Also remember that a DT that will draw double teams on every play, and collapse the pocket will make the ends get more pressure.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

No story on the signing of our ol' SS huh? You are the man JLa...only takes you 12 hours to cover a story...please leave.

Posted by: kpayn17 | March 11, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse


I would love to see Colt Brennen given a chance to beat out JC.
Competition can be a healthy thing.
I love a gunslinger. Someone not afraid to throw the deep one. JC always looks like he is afraid to take a chance and let his receivers make plays.He always seems to hold the ball to long,and seems to look confused at times.
I, like most all of us, just want a QB to be excited about.
I just don't feel it with JC.
I always feel about as scared as JC looks when he's in the pocket.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 10, 2009 6:21 PM


I agree! Listen you Colt doubters- I watched him play for years and you will have to wait to see after one year Colt will beat out JC because he is accurate, fast reads and delivers the ball while JC is still looking around!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | March 11, 2009 7:02 AM |


EXACTLY!

It is time to either cut Campbell, trade Campbell, or bench Campbell.

2008 needs to be the year where we see what Colt can do. I guarantee he will do better than Jason Campbell. He only has to win 8 games to do that!

However, Colt is a winner. He will probably beat 3 or 4 teams on his own, and we could be looking at a 12 or 13 win season!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Well I guess that was their thought in getting AH. Hopefully good things will happen. Like I said earlier the O line scares me more than the D line.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

However, Colt is a winner. He will probably beat 3 or 4 teams on his own, and we could be looking at a 12 or 13 win season!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 8:35 AM |

Wake up from your wet dream, and then punch yourself in the face,

Colt has never faced an NFL defense, the best defense he faced in college was Georgia and they destroyed him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Well I guess that was their thought in getting AH. Hopefully good things will happen. Like I said earlier the O line scares me more than the D line.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:37 AM |

That I can agree with, lets hope they continue to adress the O-Line.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Of these players coming out in the draft, who is your target with the 13th pick?
1. B. Orakpo-DE
2. R. Maualuga-LB
3. A. Curry-LB
4. J Smith-OT
5. E. Monroe-OT
6. B.J. Raji-DT
7. A. Smith-OT
8. M. Oher-OT
9. A. Maybin-DE
10. E. Brown-DE
11. J. Laurinatis-LB
12. L. English-DE
13. C.(Beany)Wells-RB

If i left out your pick, fill it in.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

I think a QB should earn his job each season, unless a Manning or a Brady. Which JC is not. What could it hurt to have competition? Let the best man win. All I care about is a double digit win season.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

tod wade stunk. we do not need a change at QB and we have a good young one in colt.

Posted by: rls1041 | March 11, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I hope one of the big tackles falls to us. Then next year I would take another tackle. The following year/years interior linemen. Then we would be good up front for years.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Of these players coming out in the draft, who is your target with the 13th pick?
1. B. Orakpo-DE
2. R. Maualuga-LB
3. A. Curry-LB
4. J Smith-OT
5. E. Monroe-OT
6. B.J. Raji-DT
7. A. Smith-OT
8. M. Oher-OT
9. A. Maybin-DE
10. E. Brown-DE
11. J. Laurinatis-LB
12. L. English-DE
13. C.(Beany)Wells-RB

If i left out your pick, fill it in.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 8:41 AM |

If I have to make a pick at 13, keep in mind that half the players you listed will be gone way before 13th.

A. Smith
or
Oher

Which ever one is left.

If all the T are gone and you can't trade back you go with the biggest DE.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Once the FO starts focusing on building both O and D lines through the draft we will be straight. Thats a big if with the current idiology in place.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

If I have to make a pick at 13, keep in mind that half the players you listed will be gone way before 13th.

A. Smith
or
Oher

Which ever one is left.

If all the T are gone and you can't trade back you go with the biggest DE.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 8:47 AM |

Yea.I agree most of them will be gone at 13.
I am going to shake up the popular pick of a OL,DE or LB at 13, and say we shock everyone and take RB Chris Beany)Wells!
Say what you will ,but it would give us the best backfield in football.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 8:56 AM | Report abuse

You guys are just jealous

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Agreed on A. Smith, or Oher. Obviously, if Raji or Jason Smith falls, you take them, but I don't believe they will.

Watched the NFL Network last night, and learned that both Rey Mamalama, and Brian Cushing were 2 down LB'ers at USC. They would come out, once 3rd down rolled around. Both Mayock, and Mike Lombardi had questions about how that will translate to the NFL.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

As much as we need a homerun hitter in the backfield, we need more to build our O line.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

First off Wells is not the best running back in this draft, Moreno is so if we are going to shock everybody he would be the guy to take.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Let me add that if they take Wells or Moreno with the 13th pick, Vinny better get more security guards.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I thought Donald Graham was the best RB in the draft?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 11, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I cannot see the brass taking a RB or a WR unless the absolute best is available. Any chance we move up to grab the Tackle we want?

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Twisi, no one has to prove Vinny is an idiot. He did himself years ago.

Posted by: pjente | March 11, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Suggesting that the team take a RB is the height of assininity. Wells can occupy a spot on the bench next to Betts.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

First off Wells is not the best running back in this draft, Moreno is so if we are going to shock everybody he would be the guy to take.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 11, 2009 9:06 AM |

Your right about that. Most all the mock drafts have Moreno gone way before we could get our hands on him.
C. Wells should still be on the board at 13.
Thats why I target him over Moreno.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

A. Smith's pro day is today so we may have a good idea if he will still be available at 13 by tonight.

Posted by: will_ga | March 11, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Wow Guru, never seen such an agenda coming from one person. Are you Colt Brennan’s mom or something? Seriously, get over it. We all pretty much agree Campbell gets this year to prove himself….

So I guess it’s obvious that you figured out how to create multiple handles up here, just like you did on Scout:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=71&f=3152&t=3564888

I love the part about how IP traces don’t lie. Guess you are lucky that the post doesn’t are…..Here’s a tip; you might want to change up the writing style a bit when you are trying to make it look like several different people agree with you.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 11, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

If we dont make the playoffs, vinny and zorn should hit the road.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

will, thats something to keep an eye on. If he does well, which I think he will, I'd bet that Oher falls to us.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Watch us draft Dirty Sanchez! We shocked the world.

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

No to Oher.

He's this year's Chris Williams.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 11, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

A lot of people do not like Oher. Whats his deal anyway? Injury Prone?

Posted by: FedorEm | March 11, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

dl, WOW, thanks for exposing guzu for the fraud that he is....lol....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

I love the part about how IP traces don’t lie. Guess you are lucky that the post doesn’t are…..Here’s a tip; you might want to change up the writing style a bit when you are trying to make it look like several different people agree with you.


Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 11, 2009 9:16 AM
I am the one and only Guru, plenty of people agree with me.

However, I do voice my opinion much more strongly.

The first year or two, no one agreed with me. Now as each year passes, more and more people are realizing what a joke Jason Campbell is.

Unfortunately, it shouldn't take years for people to realize the guy can't play. I HAVE BEEN SAYING IT FOR YEARS... RIGHT HERE.

My HUGE push last year was to trade Jason Campbell, while other teams were still in the belief that he had potential. We could have gotten a high round draft pick for him prior to the 2007 draft.

I posted for hours, often using the tag line "TRADE JASON CAMPBELL"

I was berated, as I am now, but my almost everyone. I warned that he would have a mediocre year, that we would be a team that won between 7 and 9 games, and that wasn't good enough for me.

This is not an agenda. QB is the most important position on the team, and therefore should be the most scrutinized. For some reason, Jason Campbell gets a free pass and has every excuse made for him in the book.

The bottom line is that Jason Campbell will never develop into an elite passer in this league. We are the freaking Washington Redskins... we deserve an elite passer. If we continue to waste season after season on Jason Campbell, we will be blowing the opportunities to find that elite QB that could elevate us back to where all of us Redskins fans want to be... THE SUPER BOWL!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

4th I don't get why you are a Oher Hater (or my boy LH either)

I say an enthusiastic yes! Great kid to root for. Even on another squad I hope this dude makes it. And I think he will.

I know most of you are not big readers, but The Blind Side is great (Michael Lewis is the best sports writer in America, bar none.) The best football book since Friday Night Lights (a must read).

Posted by: chrislarry | March 11, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

guzu, time to go buddy, you got exposed.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

We are the freaking Washington Redskins... we deserve an elite passer. If we continue to waste season after season on Jason Campbell, we will be blowing the opportunities to find that elite QB that could elevate us back to where all of us Redskins fans want to be... THE SUPER BOWL!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:27 AM |

THANK YOU!!!

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

guzu, time to go buddy, you got exposed.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 11, 2009 9:33 AM

Exposed for what? Some guy says that all people who agree with me are me... he is a moron.

I hate to break it to you, but Jason Campbell is not everyone's choice for the next QB to go up in the Ring of Honor. There are other people that feel we need a change at the QB spot.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 11, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

rcjordan

Draft Wells/Moreno?

Why?

Carrying 4 backs-Portis/Betts/Cartwright/draftee means the roster slot needed for depth goes to a guy who's not gonna play.

If we agree on a tackle at 13, the next question is, who's the third round pick.

A slb or de would be the best choice.

Which guys satisfy this issue?

Somebody mentioned Cody Brown-UConn as a possible 3rd round 'backer.

What do the draft gurus say about third round dt's or slb's other than him?

'Cuz we got four picks and #13 ain't the only one.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 11, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

We are the freaking Washington Redskins... we deserve an elite passer. If we continue to waste season after season on Jason Campbell, we will be blowing the opportunities to find that elite QB that could elevate us back to where all of us Redskins fans want to be... THE SUPER BOWL!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:27 AM |

THANK YOU!!!

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 9:33 AM

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

You're welcome

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Raiders fan board for evidence...wow....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 11, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

So I guess it’s obvious that you figured out how to create multiple handles up here, just like you did on Scout:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=71&f=3152&t=3564888

Guru has way too much free time.

Posted by: TWISI | March 11, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: TWISI | March 11, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

rcjordan

Draft Wells/Moreno?

Why?

Carrying 4 backs-Portis/Betts/Cartwright/draftee means the roster slot needed for depth goes to a guy who's not gonna play.

If we agree on a tackle at 13, the next question is, who's the third round pick.

A slb or de would be the best choice.

Which guys satisfy this issue?

Somebody mentioned Cody Brown-UConn as a possible 3rd round 'backer.

What do the draft gurus say about third round dt's or slb's other than him?

'Cuz we got four picks and #13 ain't the only one.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 11, 2009 9:38 AM |

I really think we should take a OL or a LB with our 13th pick.
I was only thinking what a better backfield we would have with a runner the likes of Moreno or Wells.

Posted by: rcjordan44 | March 11, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

If you have a book out about you before you make it, I'd be leary. NBH (Nothing But Hype)

Who was the last athelete to have a book out before going pro?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 11, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

sports_guru

Are you an Colt's agent or something?

If he was all that, he would've been drafted higher by another team: guess what?--he wasn't.

Move on--Jay Campbell's last season was essentially a 'my bad' situation.

Give the guy a break.

Plus: too many NFL teams toss young quarterbacks on trash heaps too soon.

The position is so complex now that a guy does need years and reps to get it together.

Situations like Big Ben, Ryan, Flacco are the exception rather than the norm.

If you hate Campbell so much, go out and blow up a can of soup or something.

(INSERT rimshot audio coupled with bad pun groan.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 11, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Phase 1. Destroy Vinny.
Phase 2. Promote Brown and beg Gibbs to come back as team president. If Joe won't some other legend ex-head coach or football expert.
Phase 3. Have new president rebuild the front office with old school experts and scouts
Phase 4. Have Brown work to toss off our aged talent for a ton of early picks, work to get 5 picks in the top 100 and use them all on the line.
Phaze 5. Rebuild our entire system based off the skills of that line. If we can keep some people thats great if not we move on.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 11, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Mista,

JC is not young anymore, it is time to end the experiment.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | March 11, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

You mean Mo-rocco ?

Posted by: slipperyrichard | March 11, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Guru guarantees that Colt Brennan can do better than Jason Campbell.

Flat out - no he won't. He's not an NFL quarterback, he does not have the size or arm.

I can see not liking JC, yes I can. But Colt Brennan is not, nor was he ever the answer.

Think about this - with the ineffectivness of our line in the latter part of last year, even IF Brennan can move - he would have been killed, killed, I say, by the Ravens and the Steelers - the results in those games would have been no different.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 11, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I just looked up here at the board and the first thing I noticed was DaFunBunch's list of qb's ranked. First off, Leinart has been a huge disappointment and how he made it to the top I have no idea. And secondly, how is Michael Vick one of the worst busts on that list if he took the falcons to the NFC Championship game in 04'-05'. The fact that Tim Couch, Alex Smith, David Carr and Leinart are way higher than Hokies like Michael Vick and Jim Druckenmiller show that this formula is 100 % grade A bullcr@p.

Secondly, I know the eagles are not resigning Jon Runyan. If Vinny Cerrato goes out and picks him up, I am going to a Walmart, buying a 38 cal Smith and Wesson, and shooting myself right in the foot just to feel what it's like to be the Redskins.

Posted by: hokiesmokie | March 11, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

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