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Rogers, McIntosh Not Assured of Starting

Jim Zorn spoke briefly today about the status of Redskins corner Carlos Rogers, who lost his starting spot Sunday and battled a stomach ailment last week, and linebacker Rocky McIntosh, whose chronic knee condition is flaring up and who watched the final three quarters of Sunday's game from the sidelines.

Zorn would not commit to either player starting against Philadelphia. Defensive coordinator Greg Blache has expressed concerns with McIntosh's play, believing he is "struggling" at least in part because of his knees. Linebacker Alfred Fincher, who has performed well on special teams much of the season, took McIntosh's spot Sunday. The Redskins will likely be playing a lot of nickel defense Sunday, with the Eagles spreading the field often.

With Shawn Springs healthy enough to play, and the coaches very pleased with the performance of free agent corner DeAngelo Hall, Rogers was used only sporadically against the Bengals despite having been the top corner all season. Zorn referred to Rogers's stomach problem as "no trite illness" and said the coaches will evaluate the lineup and personnel on a weekly basis.

Zorn did not seem overly concerned with the 15-yard penalty that wide receiver Santana Moss drew for using a prop during his touchdown celebration. Zorn said Moss "truly didn't know" that using a towel in his celebration would bring an automatic penalty, even though the NFL made it clear to players in the preseason this was a point of emphasis.

Zorn attributed it at least in part to Moss trying to do too much to fire up his teammates, with his score cutting the deficit to 17-7.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 15, 2008; 3:15 PM ET
 
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Comments

We lost to the Bungles.....

Posted by: skinball77 | December 15, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

they suck they are the suckiest bunch of sucks to ever suck

F the danny
F vinny
F zorn
f JLC

Posted by: jonthefisherman | December 15, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

RockyMac is going to have a very short shelf life for a 2nd round pick. We love drafting guys with lingering knee ailments. See #52 and #12. Stellar job Vinny.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 15, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Rocky looked like a beast at the beginning of last year. Now he can't pursue for his life. His knees seem to really be bothering him.

Posted by: ThisGuy | December 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

lets face it we need 3 LB's capable of starting next year, only LFB can come back from what we got and he is getting old and it would be nice to have a plan B guy so he can get some rest time to time.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Will someone please pollute this post with a call for Colt Brennen! It's been like 10 minutes already.

Posted by: mack1 | December 15, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

Honestly yesterday did anyone watch CP and feel like he is down to having 2 gears left, as opposed to his old 4 gears from the prime of his season?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I watched CP and felt like he's done with Zorn and has thrown in the towel....I saw sideline shots showing guys laughing, Moss yawning, CP shaking his head and laughing after coming on the field, and laughing when Ocho Sucko handed him the ball, the whole game made me fell nauseous. We care a lot more than they do, the only guy I saw play hard or with any emotion at all was Fletcher, everyone else looked like they were going through the motions, Cooley looked like he was trying to figure out what he was gonna say on his blog and CP was just making sure his pockets were straight. I hate this team as currently composed.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

RockyMac is going to have a very short shelf life for a 2nd round pick. We love drafting guys with lingering knee ailments. See #52 and #12. Stellar job Vinny.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 15, 2008 3:24 PM

In all fairness to Vinny, it was Portis who suggested that pick. So thanks CP!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

GIVE ME COLT BRENNAN OR GIVE ME DEATH!

Posted by: bubba13 | December 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

If the skins keep losing like this, they'll be in position for the top two LB's coming out.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Rogers should be cut.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | December 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

OK, simple analysis here:

Assume every Skins player over 30 needs to be replaced within 3 years. Assume we need to draft 2 guys to get 1 that works (and that is optimistic). Assume for draft picks that they become NFL level player in their second year.

In addition to the older crowd, add up the positions that are not working now (1 WR, RDE). Add to that guys likely to be done in 3 years, even though they aren't 30 (Portis). I'm not including a guys that are at risk for other reasons (Rocky Mac and his knees, D. Hall going FA, etc)

Here are the positions with age/other issues:
2 LB, 1 DT, 1 DE, 5 OL, 1 WR, 1 RB

We have some age/depth issues (Springs, Collins, Daniels), but I'll assume these guys can be replaced with current roster players.

I get 11 players needing to be replaced with 3 years. You need to bring in 22 guys to fill these spots since only 1/2 will succeed. We have 4 draft picks next year, and perhaps 7 for each of the next 3 years. That is 25 picks between now and 2012. Add an additional year to get the picks up to NFL level. We are talking about rebuilding process that pays off in 2013. Free agency might plug some of these holes, perhaps taking a year off the rebuild process. But we can't move too fast in FA because of cap limits.

The drop-off in team play will be determined by who gets 'old' all of a sudden and if there is a young guy or FA ready to step in. In 2008, Jansen got old and no one could fill that spot adequately. Samuels got hurt and he wasn't able to play at his Pro Bowl level. This type of player drop-off will be the norm for the next few years. Whether its Randy Thomas, London Fletcher or Clinton Portis, we will see talented guys hitting the wall with frequency.

That is the future, whether Jim Zorn is the coach or not.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

1) Let's give 20 mil guaranteed to a RB...how many recent Super Bowl winners have given that much guaranteed to a RB?
2) Let's not draft a lineman on day 1 of the draft for the last few years...how many recent Super Bowl winners have followed that strategy?
3) Let's back ourselves into a corner by hiring everyone on the staff, then going out to hire a head coach? How many Super Bowl winning staffs were built this way?
4) Let's come up with a new strategy every year and see if it works? How many Super Bowls have been won this way?


We live under a broken Snyder/Cerrato regime. Nothing will change until these two clowns have a massive change of heart or are no longer associated with the team. GET USED TO IT

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 15, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse


Honestly yesterday did anyone watch CP and feel like he is down to having 2 gears left, as opposed to his old 4 gears from the prime of his season?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I watched CP and felt like he's done with Zorn and has thrown in the towel....I saw sideline shots showing guys laughing, Moss yawning, CP shaking his head and laughing after coming on the field, and laughing when Ocho Sucko handed him the ball, the whole game made me fell nauseous. We care a lot more than they do, the only guy I saw play hard or with any emotion at all was Fletcher, everyone else looked like they were going through the motions, Cooley looked like he was trying to figure out what he was gonna say on his blog and CP was just making sure his pockets were straight. I hate this team as currently composed.

Posted by: zjfr2

I could not agree more. The players do NOT deserve our respect, love, admiration of devotion any more. They will have to earn that back because they lost yesterday any shred of credulity that they had. The players lost this game yesterday, Zorn just rode herd over the mess.

Maybe I am being picky but the whole attitude on the bench just showed a team of happy losers. Yeah, they are going to say the right words when a microphone is in their face but their body language on the sidelines spoke volumes. The locker room comments sere of a bunch of people saying that they are better than this, and yet when it really counts they prove they are who they are--losers to the Bengals.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Trade Jason Campbell in the offseason. The only wise move.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | December 15, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

very good analysis, zcezces.

I like the part about someone finally being realistic about only 1/2 draft choices (at best) becoming regulars. It is going to take 3 years to rebuild our offensive line if we start next draft. The aging process will not be kind to this team. Plus the fact that we play Dallas, New York, and Philadelphia twice each season is going to really be bad news.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

GIVE ME COLT BRENNAN OR GIVE ME DEATH!

Posted by: bubba13 | December 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Click click boom

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

In all fairness to Vinny, it was Portis who suggested that pick. So thanks CP!

Posted by: Predator48 | December 15, 2008 3:31 PM


That sad statement tells us all we need to know about this franchise. I guess we can fire Zorn and Ceratto since CP can handle both those duties while carrying the rock 20x a game.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

My dream 2-year plan for the skins:

The following core players should be the emphasis of what's going on in the future

QB - Jason Campbell (s), Colt Brennan
RB - Clinton Portis (s), Ladell Betts
FB - Mike Sellers (s)
WR - Moss (s), Devin Thomas (s), Malcolm Kelly, ARE
TE - Chris Cooley (s), Fred Davis
OL - Chris Samuels (s), Chad Rinehart (s), Stephon Heyer, Justin Geisinger
DL - Andre Carter, Anthony Montgomery, Kedrick Golston, Lorenzo Alexander, Chris Wilson
OLB - Macintosh (s), HB Blades
MLB - None
CB - Rogers (s), Hall (s)
S - Landry (s), Horton (s), Moore, Doughty

That's a list of 28 players. By my count, 13 of them should still be starters (s)'s. That leaves a list of 9 players that should be brought in as starters within the next 2 years. The most obvious needs are defensive line, which looks like there should be no starters currently on the roster, and offensive line, which only projects 2 true starters. LB seems iffy as well, with only Macintosh looking like a top starter (if he can avoid injuries).

Other guys that may be marginalized by that time are CP, Betts, and ARE. I think CP will be fine in a time-sharing role at that time, and ARE will be able to handle 4th WR duties (although he may be released with his contract). Betts is a RB that doesn't have wear on his body, so I think he can still be effective in a Kevin Faulk type of way. Probably at some point in the next 2 years, we'd have to find a change of pace back -- either a bull Tim Hightower type, or a speed Darren Sproles type.

Unfortunately, my dream will be hard pressed to be realized with only 4 draft picks this offseason. I think we should be able to find some journeymen LBs that can fill in great, similar to guys like Kawika Mitchell and London Fletcher. Along the o and d-lines, I want youth, plain and simple. Cheap veteran depth for the "set" positions is the way to go.

I think this team has some solid youth to build around. How successful this upcoming draft is, considering we'll probably need to hit on all 4 picks, will be crucial to how quickly we can turn things around.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Trade Jason Campbell in the offseason. The only wise move.

Posted by: Sports_Guru

Trade him for a possum or a sack of coal or a bag of Skittles. Anything!

Posted by: bubba13 | December 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I'VE GOT IT!!!

We entrap Snyder by sending a con artist wearing a wire to him offering to dig up dirt on Laveraneus Coles for a small price (40-50k)...Goodell will have no choice but to ban Snyder for life, firing Cerrato as well and placing the team into a league conservatorship run by Scott Pioli...Pioli does his thing, 3-4 years go by, the Skins are winning Super Bowls...

This sort of thing has worked before, let's try it here!

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Last night, Blache compared coaching these players to being Forrest Gump's mom, i.e., you know they're limited but you love 'em nonetheless.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 15, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

***FF Post****

Who did I woop in FF 3rd place game?

Alex or Z? I get you guys confused....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

zcezcezt1's post is the best response to what's going with the Skins now and into the future. Redskins fans should be cautioned against supporting the same kind of knee jerk reactions that have this team in the lack of talent and depth hole it is in now. His post points out, again that:

1. Zorn must be given time

2. A young, sharp GM must be hired

3. The roster should be allowed to turn over

4. Every player who has value should be subject to a trade for more picks.

5. The act of trading future picks for aging mercenaries must end.

6. Patience must be preached by the FO

7. Free agency should be avoided at all costs. Let the team wallow through some bad seasons to acquire more picks and younger players.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

psps, I think you and I and driley are all on the same pasge, if not 100% aligned. We see lots of holes over the next 2-3 seasons and no realistic to fill them -- without being very good and very lucky.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but get some better material before you retort next time. Clearly you're an amateur at this.

Posted by: psps23

clearly, you my friend, are retarded.
YOUR post stated Collins made all the plays, my post didn't STATE or IMPLY that.
Again, when you put away the syringe and the pipe, come back online.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

...and oh yeah, Mr. Portis should be reminded that he works for the Redskins and not the other way around. A three headed team of young cheap backs on a losing team are better than a talented expensive guy who poisons the air all by himself.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

if your talking to me I don't play FF so its not me

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Okay, I've been working on this for a couple of hours, and here's the scenario by which the Skins make the playoffs:







Posted by: freakzilla | December 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

While CB is not an area of need, there is one guy I'd consider ... Nnamdi Asomugha. He's early in his career and on his way to Canton. Probably the only shutdown CB in the league. Nnamdi just hired a top agent ...


"Condon is not going to let Nnamdi report to camp on time. Condon has been hired, for all intents and purposes, to get Asomugha out of Oakland and onto an actual franchise with an actual chance at winning."

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I think this team has some solid youth to build around. How successful this upcoming draft is, considering we'll probably need to hit on all 4 picks, will be crucial to how quickly we can turn things around.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Turn things around quickly?????

With little by way of draft picks, cap room, or front office football i.q.

Sorry....not gonna happen.

Posted by: ksquare | December 15, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

"clearly, you my friend, are retarded.
YOUR post stated Collins made all the plays, my post didn't STATE or IMPLY that.
Again, when you put away the syringe and the pipe, come back online.

Posted by: lsskinsfan"

Alright, not only do you not know the definition of "imply", but you lack the capacity to pick up on obvious sarcasm.

But keep on, keep truckin...

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Leroy Hill the LB for Seattle is a name to watch in FA. He should be on the second tier after Suggs and Dansby.

Posted by: TWISI | December 15, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

re: moss penalty. if you need a guy doing a stupid stunt in the end zone after reducing your deficit to 10 points against a 1 win team in december when your playoff lives are at stake then you have already lost. pathetic. i wish zorn would be clear. no one is above the team. if you want to fire people up, catch another touchdown. act like you've been there before even if you haven't.

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | December 15, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

DaReal4th
Not I. I am up 99-69 in my gam for 11th place or whatev.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

There's no way Snyder will fire Zorn and Keep Vinny.

Makes no sense.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

TC definitely created an Offensive spark, that JC didn't. Gibbs2 heroics of last season don't occur unless TC gets in the game.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 15, 2008 2:35 PM

Dude, don't you get it that Collins' success was due to his familarity with Al Saunder's offensive playbook?!?!?!?!

GOOD F'N GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!

Why is it that people always point to those 4 remaining games from last season as a reason why to start Collins over Campbell? COLLINS PLAYED IN THAT SYSTEM FOR 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!! You seen that once he got his FIRST couple starts this DECADE, Seattle made him look pretty average to inept.

Please, please, PLEASE stop using Collins' success from LAST YEAR as validation to start him over Campbell.

I swear when this reason is squeezed out of your ass, it just shows you know nothing about football.

God!

Posted by: RedDMV | December 15, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Turn things around quickly?????

With little by way of draft picks, cap room, or front office football i.q.

Sorry....not gonna happen.

Posted by: ksquare

Precisely why I used the term "dream".

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Well if we have the uncapped year and if the salary cap goes away altogether it may be our only hope for a quick turnaround. I know I read somewhere that if they get rid of the cap, the players union will never agree to bring it back. We'll be like the Yankees but maybe we can somehow buy a championship before we all die.

Snyder is so good at the marketing campaigns like the pro bowl and what not. Maybe he can get some effort going to move us into the NFC West. That would help our chances.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Dude, don't you get it that Collins' success was due to his familarity with Al Saunder's offensive playbook?!?!?!?!

Posted by: RedDMV | December 15, 2008 3:59 PM

And did you forget that when Todd Collins ran Zorn's system in the pre-season he looked horrible and everyone up here was asking "Why did we resign Todd Collins? Can't we trade him for a draft pick?"

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Don't know if this got posted up here but Mr. Irelevent has a fire vinny shirt on his site.

http://misterirrelevant.com/index.php/2008/12/15/get-your-fire-vinny-t-shirt-in-time-for-the-final-home-game-and-the-holidays/

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 - If it came down to Asomugha and either Hall or Rogers, I'd take Asomugha in a heartbeat.

But I have a feeling Nnamdi is going to set a record for a CB contract...

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Sports Reporters starting off with JLaC's Saturday article.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 15, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

McIntosh has a chronic knee problem? So, why did we draft him? If he is going to become another Marcus Washington with injuries, it's time to give him the boot as well. Fincher did okay in his place. Blades has been holding his own in place of Washington. Linebackers are a dime a dozen in free agency. Hey Vinny! Just say "no" to injury prone players. You'll save a fortune on band-aids and cry towels.

Moss didn't know he would be penalized for flagrant celebration? What planet has he been on for the last two years? It was a stupid penalty and it was stupid to say that he didn't know. Still love you brother, but be accountable.

Maybe Rogers just needs to get that transplant surgery on his hands in the offseason: seems like he was born all thumbs. Cheer up, Carlos. It's cold and flu season and you couldn't catch a cold in Alaska in the winter time with nothing on but a smile. Springs is not the long term answer. In all seriousness, there is no way this team should be making long term plans with Shawn I-think-my-calf-is-a-cow Springs. He should be on Santa's naughty list for missing so much time for injury and all he should get for Christmas is a pink slip.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 15, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

psp, he's a great cb, but no thanks. He'll be getting SICK money. Re-sign Hall, and work on Rogers. Have Rogers catch 200 passes every day in the offseason, have Gray work his azz EVERY DAY. Dangle that extension in front of him, back to back off-seasons in which he's grinding to become a better player....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

so was Rex Grossman when his team was 13-3.

QBs are what their record says they are, plan and simple. No argument from me there.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 3:10 PM |

Nice to use one year for Rex. What is his overall record? JC is what his overall record says he is, just like Rex.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 3:57 PM

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm amazed that the same people who believe it takes years to build a winner are invariably the same people who say Gibbs 2.0 had lost his edge.

He had. And so have you.

This is a league - and has been for well over a decade now - where successful turnarounds and terrible collapses happen in the course of a calendar year.

The Falcons were a joke last year, they're headed for the playoffs this year.

The Bears were 13-3 and in the Super Bowl in 2006, and 7-9 the next season.

All this talk of long-range planning via draft picks would be fine if this were still the pre-free agency era.

But it ain't. Coaches are under pressure to produce, great players are often difficult if not impossible to keep because of free agency, and the salary cap limits the movements a team can make in any given year.

Success - however fleeting - comes down to coaching, players remaining healthy, coaching, and more coaching.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Nice to use one year for Rex. What is his overall record? JC is what his overall record says he is, just like Rex.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 3:57 PM

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Even further, Grossman was hurt a lot of that year and several of the 13 wins were Orton's

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 15, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

F Vinny!

i just had an "ohh F ck!!! we're F cked! moment".

so let's say our wishes come true and snyder, who hired vinny, fires vinny. WHO THE F CK IS GOING TO HELP HIM SELECT A GM????????????? there aren't any joe gibbs of gm's around or they'd be employed already. yes, a monkey with down syndrome would be an UPGRADE to vinny but still...what if snyder selects another monkey with no brain?

ugh!!!! it's hopeless! we're doomed!

F vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 15, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

we need nwe linebackers...fletcher can stay and i think with a good off season rocky can be back to what we drafted.. thi issue is marcus washington inablity to stay healthy and on the field. im not saying draft another linebacker because we all know we need o line and d line, but we need to seriously think about who is on the team....carlos played good all year and we will need him, smooot and d hall back next year...springs can comback for less cash and we need to start restructuring some contracts to be in the hunt next year

Posted by: BANKS-GETS-THE-SKINSDOYOU | December 15, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Nice to use one year for Rex. What is his overall record? JC is what his overall record says he is, just like Rex.

Posted by: Skins930

Actually, Grossman's overall record as a starter is 19-11, for a .633 winning percentage, a higher winning percentage than that of Hall of Fame coaches Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh, and Hall of Fame QB Dan Marino.

But yes, a QB's record completely represents who that QB was.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Success - however fleeting - comes down to coaching, players remaining healthy, coaching, and more coaching.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Success comes down to superior front office. You don't think Pioli, Polian, Newsome, or Parcells have any effect?

Forget the coach, without a stud at GM, you have.....the Lions, the Bengals, and now, the Skins.

Posted by: ksquare | December 15, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Dealer,
I for one think we have a candidate in house Morocco Brown, (he selectes our late draft picks and UFAs from what I understand).

But I read Peoili is available.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

The issue isn't so much the LB, sure they need to dump MWash, but I think that if you look at Ray ray in Bamore for example. Get these guys a DOMINANT DT, who ties up a couple blockers, and it will free them up to move and flow to the ball without getting caught up in the wash....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"psp, he's a great cb, but no thanks. He'll be getting SICK money"

I agree. I believe Nate Clements signed an $80 million contract with SF. I wouldn't be surprised to see Asomugha crack 90 or even 100.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"Defensive coordinator Greg Blache has expressed concerns with McIntosh's play, believing he is "struggling" at least in part because of his knees."
--------------

And I will now express concern over Greg Blache, who can't seem to get a defensive line that includes J. Taylor, C. Griffin, and A. Carter to get any pressure on the QB all season long.

Maybe it isn't all about the players; maybe some of these coaches are slackers as well.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Success comes down to superior front office. You don't think Pioli, Polian, Newsome, or Parcells have any effect?

Forget the coach, without a stud at GM, you have.....the Lions, the Bengals, and now, the Skins.

Posted by: ksquare | December 15, 2008 4:21 PM |
-------------

The Bears and Falcons, the two teams I cited as examples, have "superior front offices?"

Bahahahahahahahaha!

Good one.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I must say that as of late I definitely agree with Portis having lost his breakaway speed. But then again on the same token the offensive line is barely opening up the primary gaps the the runs are designed to go to let alone a cut back lane. You watch any good running back with a stout offensive line they have the primary whole in which the play is designed to go and then you have a cutback lane and that is usually runners get there big gains.

I have not fallen off of the Portis bandwagon i still think Portis is a work horse back but when you have been banged up like he has and has been putting the ball on the ground as often as he as that comes down to not being able to do your job. And i say you use Betts before he is past his prime and then you have a little spark plug in Rock Cartwright who would love to get some carries. I want to see guys who want to play for the love of the game. We still have the same offensive line they just need to BLOCK.

Posted by: lboydjr1023 | December 15, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

This team is making the Spurrier era look like a Dynasty.

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 15, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

Big news in Non NFL football.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=497237

Arena Football League cancels 2009 season

"Two players told the Plain Dealer that they doubted the league would come back if the 2009 season was scuttled, but owners strongly disagreed."

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Grossman's overall record as a starter is 19-11, for a .633 winning percentage, a higher winning percentage than that of Hall of Fame coaches Joe Gibbs and Bill Walsh, and Hall of Fame QB Dan Marino.

But yes, a QB's record completely represents who that QB was.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:20 PM

Nice way to misuse facts. To compare the win % of a little used QB to coaches who coached for many years does not make your point more valid. Bottom line is both are who their record says they are. Not very good QBs. But stay in denial like Gibbs did with Brunnell.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Mr.Redskin21

One year turnarounds can happen if the circustances are right. First your GM would have basically been rebuilding your team with youth, high draft picks earned by having losing seasons and hoarding draft picks. Second you would have jettisoned your old players who each year had declined in their effectiveness, leaving a young core. Third, right before the breakout year you can can add the free agents that put your team suddenly over the top.

Now compare this scenario to the Redskins current state of being. We have five players on the offensive line past their prime and some have signed contracts that last for years. We have three running backs that are getting older, the star running back is owed such huge amounts of money that no team will touch him in a trade. Running backs do not stay at the top of their game for more than 5 years in this league. We have a defensive line with no legitimate pass rushing prospects on the bench or on the field. We have two outside linebackers with no legs. After this season we may not even have half of our cornerbacks. And to replace them we have 4 draft picks!

Now I am sure that you look at this and say why can't we turn this all around in one year? I tend to be a little pessimistic about that happening.

Posted by: driley | December 15, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Put vinny in charge of of the 2010 Arena league, promise him a team in the DC area. He can coach, GM, talk show host, and coordinator. Pay him whatever he demands for those positions. He can then consider himself the great revivor of the mighty AFL. Who knows maybe it will work--can't hurt in trying

Posted by: connskins | December 15, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

One question for everybody. IF Gibbs had taken the approach of building through the draft, bringing in young players, etc., how many people would have been happy and patient? I use Gibbs because honestly before him it was a disaster. Not much better now I admit. But the point is, the majority of fans would have been screaming their heads off waiting on young players to develop. i.e. o and d linemen.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying the Redskins can turn it around to the tune of winning a Super Bowl in one year.

But if this team doesn't finish with double digits wins next season, then it's a failure of the GM and coaches.

The Redskins don't have the best player at every position, but who does? There IS talent here.

The question is why isn't it producing, and I'm sorry but I can't believe it's because the players are "pampered" or "paid too much," et al. Players are pampered and paid too much on the other 31 teams as well, and yet for the most part, they produce.

I also don't understand the argument some make that, "Well, defenses take Santana away and leave JC with lesser options."

Funny, but the defenses must know EVERY WEEK that Steve Smith and Andre Johnson are their main task, and yet as I watch the highlights from around the league roll in on Sunday, both of those guys are catching balls and making big plays every game.

It has to come down to coaching. Or, as you say, GM AND coaching.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 15, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"Nice way to misuse facts. To compare the win % of a little used QB to coaches who coached for many years does not make your point more valid. Bottom line is both are who their record says they are. Not very good QBs. But stay in denial like Gibbs did with Brunnell.

Posted by: Skins930"

I apologize if the FACTS didn't land where you wanted them. I wasn't the one who used the statement "Bottom line is both are who their record says they are." Even when the facts say that Grossman's record is 19-11, that equals a winning percentage of .633.

"To compare the win % of a little used QB"

Well if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

So, its a little after 4:30pm Eastern ... you all have been blogging your guts out up here today! Have you solved the teams problems yet? No? Blog harder! [You guys really need to execute better.]

To me, this is still a fairly good team, just on a bad tear of first quarters. The slide since 6-2 is pretty much the same formula as Week One ... beat the Skins in the first quarter and they can't catch up. [Given how this season started and where we are, the Skins feel like the NFC version of the Bills ... but we're still a game ahead of THEM.]

Other than first quarters, the Skins have done OK, but playing from behind should not be the required motivator to get top performance out of guys. The wins are never as good as they look, the losses never as bad (except yesterday's loss to the Bengals ... the final score was not indicative of the badness of the loss).

Now that we are in full preseason mode for next year ... as is Philly ... I'm getting PSYCHED for beating that the SKINS put on the Eagles this Sunday! Playing for honor now .. and its going to be an NFC Eastfest!

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Nnamdi is going to get huge $$$. He is the closest thing to Darrell Green there is in 2008. No one throws at him. Realistically, we shouldn't be in the hunt for him. We have good CBs and not a lot of $$$ to throw around with the cap. But the guy is special, so you have to ask ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs did it and it was working. He did not replace the lines as needed but look at the success he had in the draft from first year guys vs vinny.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs didn't know you can't call back to back timeouts prior to an FG (never saw that before)

mcnabb didn't know OT can end in a tie (last seen, 6 years ago)

Moss didn't know you can't use a prop to celebrate a TD (which has been playing weekly at a stadium near you for the last 6 years).

WTF ????

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

But the point is, the majority of fans would have been screaming their heads off waiting on young players to develop. i.e. o and d linemen.

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 15, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

How would anyone know? The last time the Skins drafted a o or d lineman was 8 years ago.

Posted by: ksquare | December 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

We have good CBs and not a lot of $$$ to throw around with the cap. But the guy is special, so you have to ask ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 4:38 PM

...best player available or go for needs? And you have to answer, go for needs.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I never bought the vibe that Gibbs had personnel power over Vinny. Gibbs was the coach, not the talent evaluator. Seemed like he was more of a yes/no filter rather than a talent evaluator. Putting the roster on Gibbs now that Vinny has indisputable accountability is like blaming Iran-Contra on Bill Casey ... blame the guy who can't (or in Gibbs' case, won't) deny anything.

Gibbs was hired to remake the Skins brand and focus it on himself. He took the blame for everything. I don't think he was being candid about that.

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I apologize if the FACTS didn't land where you wanted them. I wasn't the one who used the statement "Bottom line is both are who their record says they are." Even when the facts say that Grossman's record is 19-11, that equals a winning percentage of .633.

"To compare the win % of a little used QB"

Well if it isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:37 PM

No problem psps23, I will agree with you that based on your stats, Grossman is a better QB than Campbell. Which really does tell us something about Campbell.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Should be the stats you provided...

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Here's my take:

The deal for Hall was the best thing they've done this year with one qualifier. He must be resigned to a long-term contract. That is equivalent to getting a great 1st rounder and what amounts to someone who sort of replaces Sean Taylor. He can't be replaced but you can come close. I think Hall comes close. Taylor was a great 1st rounder we lost with no return.

The defense has a mix of vets and youth. Its clear they need more linebackers. They might consider going to a 3-4 as most of the best defenses play in that configuration. They have 3 good d-lineman to play that now.

But they would have to replace Washington, possibly Rocky (knees). They need another linebacker along the lines of a La Var.

On the offensive side of the ball. It does seem like it is time to completely rebuild the OL. Receiving is still an issue. RB less so. Even if CP were let go. (Unlikely ...).

so ....

A. Sign Hall and Rogers.
Then 1. Draft a top notch linebacker or
receiver. Possibly QB or RB. Best
Athlete available. Players with Best
chance to make an immediate impact.
2. Draft OL, OL, OL, or best athlete
available if the OL choices are sketchy.

B. Release the older veterans on defense. I would keep Springs because he is still their best shutdown cover corner.Keep the veteran OL types to train the new guys. Probably keep Fletcher but if you rebuild these guys will likely want to go anyway.

C. Consider starting from scratch with the skill players ... receivers, running backs ... at QB I think competition is needed for Jason Campbell.

D. Coaching. Need consistency. Not sure how to achieve it given the current circumstances, FO and ownership.

Posted by: periculum | December 15, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was the coach, not the talent evaluator.

I thought talent evaluator was talent evaluator....?? confused?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"No problem psps23, I will agree with you that based on your stats, Grossman is a better QB than Campbell. Which really does tell us something about Campbell.

Posted by: Skins930"

Fair enough, agree to disagree. Just know that you've probably lost all credibility with the phrase "Grossman is a better QB than Campbell". That's entering 'Colt Brennan is the next Tom Brady' category.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Once again, I can lean on my Gators. How can the Redskins be this awful?

If they dont draft lineman this year I am going to lose it.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Blache was asked on the postgame show about Rogers not starting and he replied that Carlos had been sick all week and was still a bit lethargic.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 15, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

> How would anyone know? The last time the Skins
> drafted a o or d lineman was 8 years ago.

So, Montgomery and Golston weren't drafted? They really are pretty good players. Rob Jackson?
Chad Rhinehart? They lost a guard they drafted to Buffalo and then Gibbs had to trade picks to get Kendall.

They do indeed draft linemen. Many just don't make the grade. Even when drafted high.

Posted by: periculum | December 15, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

All I want for the Draft is the nastiest DT in the draft, or two. And that O-lineman from Oklahoma.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Fair enough, agree to disagree. Just know that you've probably lost all credibility with the phrase "Grossman is a better QB than Campbell". That's entering 'Colt Brennan is the next Tom Brady' category.

Just my opinion.

Posted by: psps23 | December 15, 2008 4:48 PM |

Nice try, but I agreed with you when you implied by using stats, Rex must be better. You brought him to prove your point.

Posted by: Skins930 | December 15, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

"Now that we are in full preseason mode for next year ... as is Philly ... I'm getting PSYCHED for beating that the SKINS put on the Eagles this Sunday! Playing for honor now .. and its going to be an NFC Eastfest!"

Have to assume they will lose, and lose huge at home. Its going to be a blow out and the Eagles will use the Skins as a momentum builder to reach the playoffs.

Posted by: periculum | December 15, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Thank god we've already played the Lions.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 15, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs was the coach, not the talent evaluator.

I thought talent evaluator was talent evaluator....?? confused?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 4:48 PM

When it works, I claim credit. When it doesn't, it's Gibbs fault.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 15, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

CP must go. I don't see any other way for this team, entire team not just offense, to improve and move forward.

Posted by: periculum | December 15, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

don't have a whole lot to add but feel compelled to chime in anyway.....JLC has been right on in evaluating the multitude of problems facing this team.... he used a word in a previous post "devoid" that is exactly the word in my head as i have watched this team over the last several seasons.... to sum up we lack the size and talent upfront on offense to control the game ...this is especially true at this time of year when the good teams begin to overpower the pretenders and never wheres...the good teams develope that "look" late and you can usually tell who the teams will be in the title game and bowl in late december...that starts upfront...then it becomes a game of playmakers and again along this theme we really have virtually nothing on offense or defense ...we play perhaps the most boring and uninspired football, if i wasn't such a huge fan it would be virtually unwatchable....football more than any other sport is trench warfare with lots of back and forth (65/70)plays each were you grab alittle territory then get pushed back , but a handful of big plays change the game and determine the outcome....those plays are made by big time players with more talent or size, speed, determination than everyone else and every really good team has a few and sadly we really don't have any who change the game.... i guess what I and many of you are saying and have said its time to really blow it up and start over give zorn and Jc a line to work with and in a couple years you will know if you have the right QB and coach.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | December 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1 : S**t, man , nobody's that special, if Skins are loaded at any position it's CB, anyway..But with Big Al in a desperate financial nosedive, the Raiders look like a team ready fer raidin', let's go get some of them linemens!!!

Posted by: frak | December 15, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

gator, there are more nasty OL, coming out in this years draft than there are DT/DE types. The Team might be better served by signing a DT in Free Agency, and then drafting OL/LB in the draft. Just my thoughts...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 15, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Uggghh...

Remember that deal that we almost struck to trade our first pick plus Rocky Mac to the Bears in exchange for Lance Briggs?

That doesn't seem like such a dumb deal anymore...

Posted by: p1funk | December 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Cinci Bengals,
Cinci Bengals,
Cinci Bengals number 1!!!

Cos we're the,
Cinci Bengals,
Cinci Bengals,
Cinci Bengals number 1!!!

Posted by: vmrg1974 | December 15, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

.... i guess what I and many of you are saying and have said its time to really blow it up and start over give zorn and Jc a line to work with and in a couple years you will know if you have the right QB and coach.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | December 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Good Luck with that. Our Front Office honetly believes that we are a player or two away from the promise land. No way they blow it up.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | December 15, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Remember that deal that we almost struck to trade our first pick plus Rocky Mac to the Bears in exchange for Lance Briggs?

but somehow vinny would of messed that up and added a 2nd and a 3rd

Posted by: connskins | December 15, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Honestly yesterday did anyone watch CP and feel like he is down to having 2 gears left, as opposed to his old 4 gears from the prime of his season?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

CP is an undersized power back. He bulked up to fit Gibbs scheme and now several seasons' worth of injuries later, there is no way he returns to home-run hitter status.

Posted by: p1funk | December 15, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

For this year and the next two - all I ask is that the Skins win against teams that they should win against - LIKE CINCINNATI.

If they lose but play well against a good team, I have no problem with that.

It's just sad.

Posted by: charley42 | December 15, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Here is the info on what teams have done with Vinny, (he had great years in SF. Not so much here)

SF
College Scouting
91- 10-6
92- 14-2
93- 10-6
94- 13-3 (won SB)
Director of Player Personnel
95- 11-5
96- 12-4
97- 13-3
98- 12-4
---
Redskins
Director of Player Personnel
99- 10-6
00- 8-8
FIRED BY MARTY FOR 2001
02 - 7-9
03- 5-11
Gibbs Years
04- 6-10
05- 10-6
06- 5-11
07- 9-7
VP football ops.
08- 7-7

Posted by: alex35332 | December 15, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Remember that deal that we almost struck to trade our first pick plus Rocky Mac to the Bears in exchange for Lance Briggs?

but somehow vinny would of messed that up and added a 2nd and a 3rd

Posted by: connskins | December 15, 2008 5:02 PM

Sorry, I know this is a dead horse but I still regret the extra pick given in the CP trade. And feel the same about the two picks given for JT.

Other team's GMs can see Vinny coming a long way down the road...

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 15, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

frak ... Nnamdi is first ballot HOF material. No one even knows if the guy can tackle because nothing gets thrown at him. Always thought that Darrell Green was like having 2 guys, because he did the job usually assigned to two guys. Nnamdi is that guy. A very special talent. That said, CB is not where we need help.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

RockyMac is going to have a very short shelf life for a 2nd round pick. We love drafting guys with lingering knee ailments. See #52 and #12. Stellar job Vinny.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton

Or obtaining otherwise. Don't forget Erasmus and JT, two other busts with bum wheels.

Posted by: TheCork | December 15, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

ZEKE'S UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES
once again, brought to you by Yahoo!

I had suggested in last week's column that the Cincy game could well be the 'highest stakes game' in recent team history. A major moment for this franchise. So, what exactly was Sunday?

Sunday was the official end of the Gibbs 2.0 era.

Almost every 2008 starter was brought in by Gibbs, right down to the long snapper. Pretty much the entire defensive and special teams coaches were all part of Gibbs staff. It was all about 'character' guys. The starting players (plus the top rotation players) for this 2008 seaso, almost to a person, had received Gibbs 'character' seal of approval.

This is the week it ended. The week began with a Portis meltdown on the radio. Something that would not have happened under Gibbs. The game featured Moss committing a 'beyond stupid' penalty. The special teams managed 5 penalties. Portis had a mediocre game against a terrible defense. The Skins were down 17-0 against a 1 win team. They couldn't punch it in from the 1 (and its not the jints defense). The playoff hopes ended in Cincy, for 2008 and perhaps for several years to come.

There is no reason to keep the Gibbs 2.0 group together anymore. Its clear that many of the players are playing older than their age and some are not motivated enough to play smart ball, even with the playoffs a real possibility. Whatever Gibbs had instilled in these players, it has left the building.

The Gibbs 2.0 era officially ended yesterday

The question is: What era has begun today?

ZEKE'S UNIQUE PERSPECTIVES
once again, brought to you by the good (and remaining) folks at Yahoo!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

CP must go. I don't see any other way for this team, entire team not just offense, to improve and move forward.

Posted by: periculum | December 15, 2008 4:55 PM

I understand that Priest Holmes may still be available. I also understand that periculum falls into the category of individuals that CP would identify as "genius."

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

The question is: What era has begun today?

I don't care what era you call it, as long as it is without vinny and the team plays with some heart and is enjoyable to watch. If we have to live with years of run run pass punt then who knows.

Posted by: connskins | December 15, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

The question is: What era has begun today?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 15, 2008 5:13 PM

My mental hard drive is about to crash ... a 404 Era message just flashed before my eyes.

Posted by: dcsween | December 15, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

my mental hard drive crashed at 17-0 yesterday and still has not rebooted

Posted by: connskins | December 15, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I dont understand why Carlos is being benched. I wanna see some of the players in D-Line and O-line that needs to sit. This guy did a pretty good job throughout the year considering the quaterbacks have all all day long to throw. I have a feeling that Carlos will not be signed this offseason and since the FO will be looking for a splash will sign D-Hall to a record contract.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 15, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Ted Kennedy would say that the, er uh, era has started today.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 15, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

MOSS and Zorn are missing the point. It doesn't matter if his celebration was a penalty or not. His feeble T.O. imitation shows an incredible amount of stupidity and lack of self awareness. You were losing to a terrible team. The celebration calls attention to a player who is saying "I" scored a touchdown when the proper attitude should be "we" scored a touchdown. The penalty followed by an out-of-bounds kick could have put 7 points back on the board for Cincinnati. His celebration, though, is wrong and embarrassing for more important reasons, and I'm dismayed that neither Zorn or Moss
understand that.

Posted by: abrockway | December 15, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Carlos was not benched! As I mentioned earlier, Blache said he had been sick all week and was still "lethargic." Although based on Carlos statements he was not told anything which is strange.

The DC Examiner reported last week that Smoot was upset at his lack of playing time. The reason given was that the Ravens did not use 3/4 WR sets.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 15, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"Nice try, but I agreed with you when you implied by using stats, Rex must be better. You brought him to prove your point.

Posted by: Skins930"

I brought Rex to imply that by YOUR definition, Rex must be a better QB than Jason Campbell (due to the fact that QBs can only be judged by W-L, and Rex Grossman has one of the highest winning percentages of all-time). You confirmed this by agreeing to my implication. And your agreement to my implication confirms my assertion that you have lost all credibility in the judgment of QBs.

That is all.

Posted by: spizzle | December 15, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I think we need to blow this team up at the end of the season. Its gonna take years of good drafting, and not just in the first round to just rebuild the ENTIRE offensive line. The Redskins should have been adding a young player or two to this line as it has aged so we wouldnt be in a situation where everyone on this o-line is on their last leg. Stud tackles are 1st round picks and you only get 1 of those a year.Since Portis and Moss arent spring chickens anymore, I doubt they will want to stick around for rebuilding, so we will need to replace them as well. Oh yeah, we have to rebuild the ENTIRE defensive line as well!! I think it safe to say its also time to replace M.Washington. If we can get Fletcher to stick around to lead and be a mentor while we rebuild the defense, that would be great. Cut the kicker, and the punter, they both need to be replaced. We are starting to see the effects of throwing away all of our 3rd-7th round draft picks. Thats where you add young depth that you groom to step in when guys get older. That way you dont have to blow up an entire team at once and start from scratch, and I tell you one thing, Vinnie is not the one I trust to rebuild this team

Posted by: hank7216 | December 15, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

"Condon is not going to let Nnamdi report to camp on time. Condon has been hired, for all intents and purposes, to get Asomugha out of Oakland and onto an actual franchise with an actual chance at winning."

___________________________________________

Why would he want to come to the Redskins?

Posted by: Ejayraptor | December 15, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I don't think it should take 3 years to rebuild the O-Line. If the FO can convince CP to agree to a trade and give some money back, we can still get a 1st and a 4th round pick for him. That would give us 2 first round picks. We can use one of those picks for the OL. The FO would also have to get a stud FA O-Lineman. Hence in year 1 of the rebuilding process you'll have OL (1st Round Pick, OL (Free agent),Chris Samuels, Chad Rinehart, Stephon Heyer, Justin Geisinger. In year 2 you'll plug the residual holes.

Posted by: Ejayraptor | December 15, 2008 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Ej....you lost me at "if the FO can convice CP to agree to a trade and give some money back....hahahahaha.

1-CP doesn't have a say on if he is traded.
B-Unfortunately, there is not another idiot GM out there (other than the one here in DC), that would even consider taking on that cap number.

Posted by: ksquare | December 15, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Hat to break it to you Ej, but No1 is giving us a 1 and a 3 for Portis. You wont find to many stud tackles on Fa list either. Drafting one in the first round doesnt nec mean they wont be a bust. There has been plenty of 1st round tackles that have been bust the past few years, and im def not confident in those lineman you named carrying the load. Building a solid O line is a long process that takes good drafting in not just the first round, but finding some gems in the latter rounds.Ask the Texans.

Posted by: hank7216 | December 15, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

i just had an "ohh F ck!!! we're F cked! moment".

so let's say our wishes come true and snyder, who hired vinny, fires vinny. WHO THE F CK IS GOING TO HELP HIM SELECT A GM????????????? there aren't any joe gibbs of gm's around or they'd be employed already. yes, a monkey with down syndrome would be an UPGRADE to vinny but still...what if snyder selects another monkey with no brain?

ugh!!!! it's hopeless! we're doomed!

F vinny!

Posted by: dealer1

Holy sh!t, great point. Man, this is hell. I'm starting to believe those people who said that we were cursed when we won the superbowl in Minn by those band of Indians up there...

Is Vinny native american? hmmm? I always thought he was related to those cavemen from the geico commercials.

Posted by: cprob001 | December 15, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

I am not surprised that Rogers is on the bench. Even early on in the year he was not covering guys the way that everyone thought he was. If you watch the games the WRs that he was covering dropped a ton of balls. Just because the end of the game stats showed that he did not give up big numbers does not mean that he was shutting them down. The fact of the matter is that he is too slow to cover #1 or even in some cases #2 receivers. I know that we do not have this luxury, but he would be a perfect nickle back. Asking him to do anything more than that is a real risk.

Also, does anyone know if the Redskins are planning on offering D Hall a contract after the year is over? The only reason that I would say not to is if he has been a problem in the locker room. But, if he has been a good teammate, then I say give him a 3 year deal. Any thoughts?

Posted by: NCMatt1 | December 16, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

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