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Posted at 6:11 AM ET, 12/17/2010

Roster analysis: Building depth through the practice squad

By J.I. Halsell
J.I. Halsell

Week 15 represents the final week NFL general managers can use a minimum salary credit to lure other clubs' practice squad players to sign to their team's active rosters. As players earn minimum salary credits over the course of their career, the minimum base salary they can earn in a season increases. In order to earn this credit, a player must be on the club's 53-man roster for three weeks.

When the Redskins signed Andre Brown from the Giants' practice squad, by rule, the Redskins were then required to keep Brown - a 2009 fourth-round pick of the Giants -- on their active roster for at least three weeks. So not only did Brown get a pay raise in 2010 by signing with the Redskins, but the rules of signing other club's practice squad players ensured that Brown's 2011 active roster minimum salary would be $405,000 instead of $330,000.

When you're a club like the Redskins, who lack young depth, acquiring young talent from other clubs' practice squads or via waivers represents a viable and inexpensive source of roster building, particularly when you have a dearth of draft picks in the 2011 draft.

General managers can often find draft-pick talent on practice squads. Last week's opponent, the Buccaneers, have a defensive tackle in Al Woods, who was a Saints 2010 fourth-round draft pick. Woods was signed to the Steelers' practice squad after being waived by the Saints, and then the Bucs signed him to their active roster in Week 9. Since then, Woods has been a part of the Bucs' defensive-line rotation, and with the season-ending injury of first-round draft pick Gerald McCoy, the Bucs now have a young replacement starter in Woods.

The Bucs also have safety Larry Asante on their active roster, a Browns 2010 fifth-round pick, whom Tampa Bay signed in Week 13. Safety Corey Lynch, who was second on the team in tackles with nine total tackles versus the Redskins, was acquired from the Bengals practice squad in week 3.

While practice-squad acquisitions don't often yield cornerstone players, Bruce Allen, as general manager in Tampa, lucked out when he signed left tackle Donald Penn from the Vikings' practice squad. Since 2007, Penn has started 57 of 61 games played at left tackle, a position that clubs typically use high-round, expensive draft picks to fill - as the Redskins did with Trent Williams this year.

In an effort to acquire some youthful depth, this week's opponent, the Cowboys -- who have five offensive linemen age 30 or older -- signed left tackle Jermey Parnell from the Saints' practice squad. Last week, via waivers, they acquired 6 foot 7, 300-pound, 3-4 defensive end Clifton Geathers, who was a sixth-round pick of the Browns this year.

As the Redskins look to build toward next season, the acquisition of young, quality talent does not start with next April's draft, but can begin as the 2010 season is wrapping up. But in order to acquire young players via practice squads or via waivers, active roster spots are going to have to be cleared via current players being placed on reserve lists or being terminated.


A native Washingtonian, J.I. Halsell spent two seasons as a salary cap analyst for the Washington Redskins. Prior to his tenure in Washington, he spent two years working in the NFL Management Council, and now pens a blog entitled "Under the Cap" for FootballOutsiders.com. Follow him on Twitter at @SalaryCap101.

By J.I. Halsell  | December 17, 2010; 6:11 AM ET
Categories:  Roster analysis  
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Next: Union files grievance on behalf of Haynesworth (updated)

Comments

Now that is a good topic for discussion. It seems clear that Bruce and Mike want to fill that RB spot with out going to the draft board. Not a terrible idea considering how many holes the roster has. But what they need is a good speedy pass catching RB, like McNabb had with Westbrook.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 17, 2010 6:32 AM | Report abuse

I believe Clifton is a nephew of Jumpy Geathers. Used to love to watch Jumpy use the forlift on opposing O-linemen!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 17, 2010 6:38 AM | Report abuse

But in order to acquire young players via practice squads or via waivers, active roster spots are going to have to be cleared via current players being placed on reserve lists or being terminated.

By J.I. Halsell | December 17, 2010; 6:11 AM ET

Isn't it too early to give up on guys like, oh, Roydell Williams?

Posted by: beep-beep | December 17, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

I can never get enough of watching this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfLiHdncQ5g&NR=1

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | December 17, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse

I believe Clifton is a nephew of Jumpy Geathers. Used to love to watch Jumpy use the forlift on opposing O-linemen!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 17, 2010 6:38 AM | Report abuse

Loved Jumpy Geathers. He was one of the best bull rush pass rushers around.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 17, 2010 7:34 AM | Report abuse

Jumpy was awesome. Part of a tremendous defensive line in 1991.

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | December 17, 2010 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Damn it's slow up here today...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Roster analysis: Building depth through the practice squad

Interesting reading.

Poaching young'ns from other teams' rosters in this fashion is indeed a clever way to develop depth.

What would make this analysis even more interesting is some kind of listing of the rates/chances/history of players who've jumped from the practice squad to important roles over the past few seasons.

Good reading, though, all around.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

I'm hoping that the day free agency opens, there are multiple posts on here about the redskins signing Vincent Jackson to a 5 year deal. That cat needs to be a HIGH priority this offseason.....he wore out the 9ers stuff last night...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

This is outstanding-- just the kind of in-depth detail that few people know but die-hards like me love-- thanks and keep up the great, great work.

Posted by: MB_202 | December 17, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

BTW: did Vincent Jackson score another touchdown since I went to bed?

Mr. Snyder needs to hit the local chack cashing store to make sure he has enough money to sign Jackson--a move we heartily endorse.

If you extend DM5, then perhaps it's logical to also give him a big flashy target, while committing to drafting lineman in April.

And Jackson fits the redskins unlike, say, Haynesworth or ARE, or BLloyd as there is a defined need for him in a offense where a big-bodied receiver is essential.

Many of the other failed redskin FA acquisitions bombed because they came into scheme situations where they just didn't fit what the team was doing.

And in the case of Haynesworth, the attitude and desire was lacking from the get-go.

Signing Jackson and perhaps some other FA for the offense (Mankins?) would be positive moves.

And any step intended to get us out of the bottom of the NFC East would be the first in the right direction.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

I'm hoping that the day free agency opens, there are multiple posts on here about the redskins signing Vincent Jackson to a 5 year deal. That cat needs to be a HIGH priority this offseason.....he wore out the 9ers stuff last night...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 8:20 AM
-------------------------------------------
Do you think the Redskins might be feeling a little snake bitten after Haynesworth? I am for signing VJ, but the dude comes with some baggage. Just saying the Redskins might draft nothing but players from Miss Mary's School of Good Graces after all the manure they have had to deal with regarding Haynesworth. Gibbs always used to say he was looking for players of "high character". I used the think that was kind of elitist BS, but now, I am on the side of caution. Give me a roster for of brown bagging work-aholics for next year and I am happy.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

"Young"? "Depth"? "Building"?

Sorry buddy, you posted your story to the wrong place. This is the WASHINGTON Post, REDSKINS section!

Posted by: kone | December 17, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

bean

he (VJAX) wore out the 9ers stuff last night...


What should open redskins' fans' eyes is the first touchdown: Nate Clements had Jackson covered.

But Jackson's length and height and overall size made it appear that the smaller Clements was like aa point guard trying to beat Shaq for a rebound.

The basketball analogy aside, the redskins have not had a big-bodied receiver with size since the days of M Westbrook--and he didn't totally satisfy.

What you want today is a guy who can go get the ball out of the air: the perfect or imperfect pass means nothing to such receivers.

Guys like that make their own plays.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

If it is the season to poach other practice squads, then turn it around and ask why no one is poaching the Redskins' practice squad. I have been wondering how a guy like Selvish Capers can stay on the practice squad all season long with no one taking a shot at him. The guy was once projected to go as high as the first round and now no one will even take a shot at him on a practice squad. Is he that bad?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

rsh, there was writing was on the wall, no, scratch that, there was a NEON GLOWING sign, no..hang on, there was a BLARING AIR HORN, and FLASHING LIGHTS, and Vinny chose to ignore the signs when it came to AH...VJ is a different cat, he's had the DUI issues, but apart from that, you don't hear anything about his work ethic how he conducts himself on the field, or things that would throw up red flags...you write the contract with language in it regarding the DUI scenario if it happens here...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

rsh, there was writing was on the wall, no, scratch that, there was a NEON GLOWING sign, no..hang on, there was a BLARING AIR HORN, and FLASHING LIGHTS, and Vinny chose to ignore the signs when it came to AH...VJ is a different cat, he's had the DUI issues, but apart from that, you don't hear anything about his work ethic how he conducts himself on the field, or things that would throw up red flags...you write the contract with language in it regarding the DUI scenario if it happens here...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 8:47 AM
------------------------------------------
Sure, I know Allen is really very good about the wording in these contracts. I am just saying maybe the Redskins are going to look at the price it will take to get VJ in Redskins-land and when they weigh it against his issues, it will look too much like Haynesworth's deal. I could completely understand them wanting to stay away from anything that even distantly resembles the Haynesworth debacle.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 8:51 AM | Report abuse

RedSkinHead

...why no one is poaching the Redskins' practice squad.


You're advertising the obvious: we haven't or don't have the kind of talent other teams covet.

But if we can scoop a guy or two who becomes a solid depth player--or starter as in the case of Penn/Lynch--that's a major plus as that's a draft pick we don't have to expend.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Do you think the Redskins might be feeling a little snake bitten after Haynesworth? I am for signing VJ, but the dude comes with some baggage. Just saying the Redskins might draft nothing but players from Miss Mary's School of Good Graces after all the manure they have had to deal with regarding Haynesworth. Gibbs always used to say he was looking for players of "high character". I used the think that was kind of elitist BS, but now, I am on the side of caution. Give me a roster for of brown bagging work-aholics for next year and I am happy.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 8:35 AM

Agree with the latter part of your post, but disagree with the beginning...comparing VJ to AH is apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common is they've been pinched for reckless driving. AH has a long, well-documented history of being a slacker who only turns it on when it's time to get paid. VJ has no such reputation. Plus VJ would have a legit tie here...he and McNabb have worked out together in the offseason and would probably have a good chemistry on and off the field. AH's only tie here was the trail of money from his locker to the bank.

So I would say that going after VJ isn't just relatively low risk...it's necessary.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse

VJAX and Haynesworth are unfair and poor comparisons.

Not every FA is Albert Hanyesworth.

And just because AH failed, it doesn't mean you don't get back into the business of upgrading you roster.

We need a number one receiver: one reason--among many--why our offense doesn't work because there is no deep threat to respect.

Having Jackson means Moss (who should be re-upped asap) can play in the slot as a natural number 2 receiver.

Then, you still have the developing Anthony Armstrong with 4.3 speed, Cooley, and Davis.

Our offense needs lineman and playmakers.

Jackson is not only a playmaker, he's a 5 all by himself.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

If Vjax was up to a vote. I say NO. Just another high priced FA acquisition to come in and upset the apple cart when things don't go his way. I don't know the man but from recent FA performance around here, he'd be a divider when they start losing and balls don't come his way or end up in the dirt or behind him. Dump money on an O lineman if possible, I bet the majority of them are more lunch pail then prima-dona WR's. Just my opinion. O and SD does have Rivers throwing it..

Posted by: outsourced_in_va | December 17, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

100% agree Moe...the simple act of adding VJ takes our receiving corps from a weakness to a strength (provided we add no less than 2 starting caliber O-lineman). If McNabb can't succeed with that, then I'll join you in running him outta town...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

If Vjax was up to a vote. I say NO. Just another high priced FA acquisition to come in and upset the apple cart when things don't go his way. I don't know the man but from recent FA performance around here, he'd be a divider when they start losing and balls don't come his way or end up in the dirt or behind him. Dump money on an O lineman if possible, I bet the majority of them are more lunch pail then prima-dona WR's. Just my opinion. O and SD does have Rivers throwing it..

Posted by: outsourced_in_va | December 17, 2010 9:00 AM


So basically, you're saying the simple fact that we'd acquire VJ via free agency, he'd "upset the apple cart when things don't go his way"? That's not a personality thing...he'd be a better citizen and a better teammate if we drafted him or traded for him?

Yeah, sell that brand of crazy elsewhere...we're all stocked up here...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Brown, Moe, and Bean,
I get that Haynesworth and VJ are not the same people. All I am saying is maybe they are similar enough to warrant caution on the part of the Redskins front office. Lest we forget, this front office had some potentially high priced / high potential guys cycle through that didn't get contracts. The compulsion to win the free agent signing money competition is gone. VJ is going to warrant a contract every bit as fat as Haynesworth's. Although VJ is no Haynesworth, he sure isn't a saint, either. I think there is a lot that says the Redskins might watch someone else shell out the ten year, one hundred million dollar contract.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Loved Jumpy Geathers. He was one of the best bull rush pass rushers around.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 17, 2010 7:34 AM | Report abuse

When he was playing, almost every game the analyst would say something about Jumpy doing something called 'The Bulldozer' when he was working out. They never did tell exactly what that was, but it just sounds tough. Jumpy is a classic, one of the strongest mo-fo's to ever strap on a helmet.

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

This was quite an outstanding analysis...one mans trash is another mans treasure...duh.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

the idea that because AH was a dud, so never go after another is just bizarre...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

What should open redskins' fans' eyes is the first touchdown: Nate Clements had Jackson covered.

But Jackson's length and height and overall size made it appear that the smaller Clements was like aa point guard trying to beat Shaq for a rebound.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Gas up the jet Danny Boy, VJax needs to be in B&G next year!!!

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

RSH, if you think VJ is getting an AH-esque contract you're sadly mistaken...that dude has missed the vast majority of the season, he's never caught more than 70 passes in a season, and you're not the only one fretting over the DUIs. No chance he reels in that kind of coin...if he could, someone would have traded for him regardless of cost.

I know some of us have a mind boner over his performance last night, but let's not get carried away here...he's only had one really good game against a really bad team. Hardly a cause to hand him a 9 figure payday...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Guys, the Skins MO has changed and we will not be in the VJ sweepstakes. And without a huge contract, what incentive does VJ have to play for the Skins?

Would not mind seeing him in B&G next year, but it's not happening.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

RedSkinHead

...why no one is poaching the Redskins' practice squad.
You're advertising the obvious: we haven't or don't have the kind of talent other teams covet.

But if we can scoop a guy or two who becomes a solid depth player--or starter as in the case of Penn/Lynch--that's a major plus as that's a draft pick we don't have to expend.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:53 AM
-------------------------------------------
I agree with the Redskins practice squad having some rent-a-dude-taxi-dudes in there, but Capers is an engima to me. I thought the guy was going to be really good in the NFL. He played shakey in preseason, but the dude obviously has some physical gifts. I just don't see why some team wouldn't have scooped him up.

As for the Redskins grabbing guys off other practice squads, I am in agreement. There has got to be someone to help. They have grabbed a few guys this way, so I would not say they were anywhere near as ineffective as Cerrato, but heck, if you are going to do another purge in the offseason, why wait to load up to roster with young'uns? Guys like Roydell Williams, Mike Sellers, Derrick Dockery and Philip Daniels are going to be gone next year and really, there is not much trade value there. So why not cut them and start trying out young guys?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

VJax, Moss, Kelly, Armstrong, Banks, Austin.

Cooley, Davis.

3rd round RB (trade), Torain, Williams, Portis (he'll be back).

Williams, Lichy, Top 40 center, BWM, Top 10 RT.

Yes please.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

rsh, VJ isn't getting 100 million, nor is he asking for that kind of deal either...lets see what he wants before we start saying he's asking for Haynesworth money...IIRC he wants to be paid as one of the top wr's...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

We already have a Vincent Jackson...his name is Malcolm Kelly.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

If we got VJax, I'd only be happy if there was a clause put into his contract that said it was wholly voided if he got another DUI, with us getting back all we paid him for the season in which he gets the DUI.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | December 17, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

kerz, I'm not sure about that, shanny's not blind, he see's the lack of playmakers that the team has, hasn't he already come out and said that the team will be players in free agency, and they're going to be what 43 million UNDER the cap next year...didn't someone post that yesterday...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

"he'd be a better citizen and a better teammate if we drafted him or traded for him?"
------
If I wouldn't sign him I definitely would not trade for him. It's not only his attitude factor. Don't think for a minute when things go sour the other players compare contracts and say I work harder or am better then him... why cant I..... It adds to the dissension factor for losing teams. It's all roses when your winning. Like I said, if it were a democracy, i'd vote no. Go another direction.

Posted by: outsourced_in_va | December 17, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Greg, I just think that this FO will be more finically responsible and will not be targeting the "elite" tier of FAs. Just don't see the team getting into bidding wars for those guys.

MS/BA will bring in good hardworking FAs that fit their system and fit the new salary plan. This next FA will show the fans that there is in fact change at Redskins Park.

Also, the Skins are not one VJ away from being a good team. Smart FA signings is what we will see from now on.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

rsh, VJ isn't getting 100 million, nor is he asking for that kind of deal either...lets see what he wants before we start saying he's asking for Haynesworth money...IIRC he wants to be paid as one of the top wr's...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:24 AM
------------------------------------------
Once he gets on the market teams will overbid for him. The fear of a lockout year is almost gone. Teams will pay big bucks to "win now". Maybe I am calling it wrong, but from what I see his contract is going to be huge.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Hey, aren't NERDS supposed to be number crunchers? Where's the WPA and equations?

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

It's not only his attitude factor

can you back this up with specific examples of when VJ has had attitude problems, or was this straight out ya butt??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I look at guys like VJ, or logan Mankins, and think that this team would be/should be interested in them....they're both young, going into the PRIME of their careers, and are considered some of the top players at their craft...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

I can't endorse VJ until I see film of how well he adjusts to underthrown passes.

That's a must in this offense.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I look at guys like VJ, or logan Mankins, and think that this team would be/should be interested in them....they're both young, going into the PRIME of their careers, and are considered some of the top players at their craft...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

So was Jeremiah Trotter, Randel El, and Brandon Lloyd. Just sayin.....

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Hey, aren't NERDS supposed to be number crunchers? Where's the WPA and equations?

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 9:44 AM

Can't believe I read that entire piece of crap...any of our dallas puppets...errr I mean trolls pop in yesterday?

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Time to take a wizz on the VJax parade:

After watching the game last night, I was expecting the ecstatic posts that I'm reading this morning.

Sign VJax at all costs.

Give the dude Larry Ftizgerald $$ no matter what.

Please.

On the first TD, Nate Clements whiffed. Plain and simple. VJax did not outjump or outmuscle him for anything. Clements was perfectly positioned to swat or pick off that ball. He made a hash of the effort. The ball actually glanced off of his helmet and into VJax's arms. Nice concentration by VJax to pickup the gift. But it was a fluky ugly TD that had more to do with Clements wetting the bed, than VJax making a brilliant play.

Second TD was just a standard crossing pattern designed to get a WR matched up on a LB and it worked perfectly. Credit the play design and Rivers throw. Any Redskin WR on our roster could have made the catch.

Third TD, I give credit to VJax for. Nice route, nice catch, way to use his strength to muscle into the end zone. Still, you need a QB to make a perfect throw on that one to make it all happen. Rivers made it, not sure if McNabb would have.

So while VJax had a nice game filling up the stat sheet, let's please get a hold of ourselves.

This week it was VJax.

Last week it was Malcolm Floyd.

In previous weeks it was Seyi Arijotutu.

All season long (when healthy) its been Antonio Gates.

This Chargers offense has been getting bomb-production from its receivers all season long. Is it VJax? Or is it Rivers and the offensive system?

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Scamp, it's not those other posters...don't mess with the mayor or you get blocked. Speaking from experience.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 16, 2010 9:45 PM |

That's funny. I wonder what the almighty journalist would think if he got censored? What a d0uche.

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

So was Jeremiah Trotter, Randel El, and Brandon Lloyd. Just sayin.....

Not even CLOSE to being the best at what they do....was this serious??

p1, all I'm saying is that this guy is going to be a free agent, is a GREAT player and is what 26/27 years old. It makes sense to me, to bring a guy like that in...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I can't endorse VJ until I see film of how well he adjusts to underthrown passes.

That's a must in this offense.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

We need to give his back a good look too, with all of those low throws he'll be bending over to try and scoop off the ground. Does this guy know what he's getting into???

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

I look at guys like VJ, or logan Mankins, and think that this team would be/should be interested in them....they're both young, going into the PRIME of their careers, and are considered some of the top players at their craft...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Our 32nd-ranked defense is in desperate need of an upgrade at the key position that makes it all work - nose tackle.

Yes, we need a guard, but I'm more bullish on Ryan harris than Mankins. Harris is younger, will come cheaper, he's versatile, and he was drafted/groomed by Shanny in the zone-block.

VJ needs to come at the right price, but that's not going to happen. Someone is going to have to overpay for VJax - I hope this season we are the team that lets someone else overpay for a player like that.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 9:56 AM

jcnjcn went down with my other id. have not seen that dude on here since then.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

We already have a Michael Westbrook...his name is Malcolm Kelly.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 9:26 AM


There PA...fixed it for ya...

pfunk, if VJ can replicate the 60 catch/1000 yard/9 TD kinda years he put up in SD, that's all we need from him. He's a big body that blocks well, something that's a must in Shanahan's system. Just because he's not a flawless, can't miss prospect doesn't mean he can't help here. I don't see anybody here saying write the guy a blank check...this talk is all predicated on him signing here for the right price...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

How about in FA we get VJ83, Logan Mankins, Tamba Hali, David Kail (Center from the Panthers).

So our o line would be: Trent, Mankins, Kail, ?, and Jammal Brown.

In the Draft we get either AJ Green or Julio Jones, another O and D lineman, a DB, QB?, RB, and LB.

So our WR core would look like: VJ83, Julio/AJ Green, Anthony Armstrong, Kelly, Austin, and Banks...

Yes. No Santana. I think he is a set back for us getting young talent at WR position.

Posted by: roccoskins | December 17, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

VJax isn't Fitzgerald.

He's also better than any WR on our roster.

Ergo, signing him would upgrade our WR corps.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Yes, we need a guard, but I'm more bullish on Ryan harris than Mankins. Harris is younger, will come cheaper, he's versatile, and he was drafted/groomed by Shanny in the zone-block.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:01 AM

See this is the way I see the new FO going. Not after the top tier, but after players that will upgrade what we have (should not be hard) an that does not get us into the salary cap situation that kept us from cutting older players.

This new FO will make hessone have wet dreams and forget all about boycotting the little guy.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 9:56 AM

jcnjcn went down with my other id. have not seen that dude on here since then.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:01 AM |

oh well. What r ya gonna do? Seems he has a mighty thin skin. La Canfora woulda never done that.

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Can't believe I read that entire piece of crap...any of our dallas puppets...errr I mean trolls pop in yesterday?

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

No, I haven't seen the Dallas trolls on here since like week 5. I'm starting to think they were all Wade Phillips.

Careful, we don't need that rumor going around. I can officially say there are NO DALLAS TROLLS in the SPG!!!

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

p1funk

Or is it Rivers and the offensive system?

Point-taken: Rivers is why Jackson looks so good.

East Coasters sweat Manning, Brady, Vick, Brees, Ryan, Flacco, and Big Ben while ignoring Philip Rivers 4,000 yard season.

Most folks--like me--say Rivers is the best deep ball thrower in the game, and the chargers' receiving corps is one of the league's best.

Thing is, Jackson's production in Norv's system with Rivers throwing can be duplicated in D.C. because the other solid deep ball thrower in the league is Donovon F. McNabb.

And he's the redskin quarterback.

Last year in Philly, McNabb and D Jackson led the league in the number and average of deep passes(go stare at the 2009 passing stats in NFL.COM).

McNabb is not the best short and medium range thrower.

But he's fairly accurate 20-30+ yards upfield.

Plus, Shanahan's system in both Dnever and Houston relied on a big target stretching the field (Johnson, Marshall).

The 2010 Redskin offense fails because without a deep threat or other receiver to fear, opponenets can blitz, attack, harass, and smother the redskin offense.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

my take on the Jackson, Mankins topics. No thanks on Jackson, too many red flags. Mankins only flag is holding out. Having said that we REALLY need o line. I'd rather pick Mankins up and draft a reciever...even though our draft history with recievers early is terrible.

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

From Kelli Johnson's twitter:

"Just learned that Rex Grossman is starting over McNabb Sun in Dallas; I'm told Redskins Lockeroom is divided and guys are extremely upset"

http://twitter.com/kjohnsoncsn/status/15786893077647360

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | December 17, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

scamp, other than teh DUI, what red flags does VJ have, and Mankins is a free agent, you sign him to a deal why would he hold out??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse


...this talk is all predicated on him signing here for the right price...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse


Has anything that has gone down this season with VJax indicated that he's a "right price" kind of guy?

What kind of guaranteed $$ are you ready to throw at him. $25mill? $30mill? Is that worth 60 catches 1000 yards and 9 TDs?

Santana Moss is still giving us 70+ catches and 1000 yards.

VJax had 9 TDs once in his career. VJax's career averages look like Santana Moss.

Buyer beware.

Brandon marshall is a better playmaker at WR than Vincent jackson is. More catches, more yards after the catch, runs more routes. And look at how he's crapped out in Miami.


Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Washington Redskins defensive coordinator Jim Haslett said that second-year end Jeremy Jarmon likely will receive his most extensive action of the season when the Redskins take on the Dallas Cowboys on Sunday.

Jarmon, whom the Redskins took in the supplemental draft last season, costing them a third-round pick in the 2010 draft, has been inactive for all but two games this season.

He entered the year having to play catchup after working his way back from season-ending knee surgery in 2009. At first, Jarmon was initially asked to convert from defensive end to linebacker, and lost 10 pounds to do so. But then the defensive coaches decided they needed the 6-foot-3 Jarmon at defensive end, and asked him to gain 30 pounds to fit in the 3-4 scheme.

Jarmon spent the preseason working to regain his leg strength, and during the regular season he was slowed by a hamstring injury. But he now says he feels strong and isn’t bothered by any problems in his legs.

Haslett and his assistants remained high on Jarmon as a prospect, but he was caught in a numbers game behind veterans Kedric Golston, Albert Haynesworth, Vonnie Holliday and Phillip Daniels at the left defensive end spot.

Jarmon continued to work while patiently waiting his turn, however.

“I don’t get frustrated,” he said last week. “I come to work, and just strive to get better every day. If I’m not playing, I guess there’s something that I’m not doing right in their eyes, so I just keep working.”

Jarmon’s repetitions increased in practice this past week with both Golston and Daniels sidelined with various ailments.

Haslett has liked what he has seen from Jarmon this week, and in addition to thinking that the Kentucky product can help the Redskins on Sunday, the coaches also want to see if Jarmon can be counted on for a larger role next season.

"He's going to play. He'll play some this week. He might play a lot this week,” Haslett said of Jarmon. “Again, still trying to win the game, but we're going to try to get these guys in so we can take a look at them."

Said Jarmon: “I’m always eager, so whatever happens, I’ll be prepared. I’ve practiced, I’ve prepare the past few weeks, and ever since the season started I’ve continued to get better. I’m definitely excited.”

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-skins/2010/12/haslett-jarmon-will-get-chance-to-prove-himself-vs-dallas-6104.html

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Should be a new post soon...


Redskins | NFLPA files Albert Haynesworth grievance
The NFL Players Associated confirmed Thursday, Dec. 16, that it has filed a grievance on behalf of suspended Washington Redskins DL Albert Haynesworth, according to Ryan O'Halloran, of CSNWashington.com. Haynesworth was suspended Dec. 7 for what the team called "conduct detrimental to the team." Haynesworth could lose more than $847,000 of his base salary, the equivalent of four game checks. The NFLPA will seek to gain some of that money back even though Haynesworth will not play in the Redskins' final three games.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=687421-redskins-nflpa-files-albert-haynesworth-grievance#ixzz18NmmwZf6

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

VJax isn't Fitzgerald.

He's also better than any WR on our roster.

Ergo, signing him would upgrade our WR corps.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2010 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Right. Just like that.

Well I hope this morning, Shanny gets online, adds VJAx to the fantasy roster and drops Anthony Armstrong.

It's that simple.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

From Kelli Johnson's twitter:

"Just learned that Rex Grossman is starting over McNabb Sun in Dallas; I'm told Redskins Lockeroom is divided and guys are extremely upset"

http://twitter.com/kjohnsoncsn/status/15786893077647360

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | December 17, 2010 10:17 AM |


Until I see Grossman take the field, I won't believe this rumor.

The only way Shanahan does this is if he has struck a deal with Bowlen to try and get himself fired here so he can return to the Broncos.

Posted by: Alan4 | December 17, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

kerz, good stuff, thanks for posting...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I look at guys like VJ, or logan Mankins, and think that this team would be/should be interested in them....they're both young, going into the PRIME of their careers, and are considered some of the top players at their craft...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 9:47 AM
------------------------------------------
You know, Bean, I would be happy if they signed both of those guys, but it will be expensive. I know there are some guys who will enter free agency that haven't had their names in bright lights that may end up being solid players, and I would hate to think those guys were looked over because the team blew the whole salary cap with two signings.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Santana Moss is still giving us 70+ catches and 1000 yards.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:18 AM

If we had any kind of pass protection...moss would have 1265 yards and 11 touchdowns...right now.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

So was Jeremiah Trotter, Randel El, and Brandon Lloyd. Just sayin.....

Not even CLOSE to being the best at what they do....was this serious??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Not even close huh?

Trotter was a Pro Bowler in Philly and it was thought that he was going to be a beast in the middle for us, he flopped. Wasn't Randel El this electric, awesome punt returner before he came to us? He flopped. B. Lloyd made all the circus catches and had a major upside, and the rest is history.

I think you are going by what they were when they left than what they were before they got here.

I seriously doubt Mankins will be a flop, but VJax could easily grow gills and flop. I still see us taking the chance on him though.

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:24 AM

What's the point of this post? You obviously knew I was talking about free agency; I didn't expect us to pick him up today. He's a guy we should go after. Would you rather have him or Roydell Williams?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Johnny, if that's true sign me up for therapy sessions ASAP...nothing Zorn could do would test my fanhood quite like seeing The Human Turnover start against our hated division rival...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Rivers is more than just a deep ball guy, he throws all the routes.

But more to my point, the success of San Diego's passing game is the combination of

(1) Norv's design - Yes, as much as it kills us Skins folk to say it; Norv's offensive schemes in San Diego are always productive and effective.

2(2) Rivers ability to run the offense - It's not just maiking throws it's making decisions. For instance, last night Rivers was hitting open targets all over the field. He wasn't just feeding VJax. He's hitting Kelly Washignton open, he's hitting Randy McMichael open.

In that scheme, VJAx is just one piece. He's the deep-ball guy. He has a coach who knows how to run plays for him, and he has a QB who knows how/when to get him the ball. But he's a system guy.

You don't pay $30-40 mill guaranteed for a system guy.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

believe it Alan4, Sexy Rexy is starting....I predict official announcement sometime before 4 pm.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Who is this Roydell Williams everyone is talking about? Is he available?

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Having said that we REALLY need o line. I'd rather pick Mankins up and draft a reciever...even though our draft history with recievers early is terrible.

Here is where redskin fans have to hope and trust the new FO is better than the old FO.

The old FO would fix the team by handing big money out to guys who didn't fit the team's schemes.

The bigger the name, the bigger the signing bonus, they figured.

The new FO goes in looking to rebuild according to scheme.

You want Mankins?: is he a top notch zone-blocker?

What does he weigh?

Can he effectively block on the second level?

You want Jackson?: can he make plays deep on a consistent enough basis where he takes a safety out of the box, thus opening up the running game?

Can he be a solid NFL citizen and not draw another dui?

Does he want the ball all the time or just want to be apart of a productive offense?

The new FO should avoid looking at statistics when adding new guys: it should self-scout, study the team's schemes, and ask, who fits what we do best?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Good lord. The internet may crash under the weight of 28 million fantasy players rushing to pick up the Cowboys defense.

Posted by: SMACK1 | December 17, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Rex must be practicing better than McNabb this week...I can't watch.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

monk, trotter was a player, however you're basing part of your arguement on BLloyd, whom when the Redskins traded for him, the ENTIRE league laughed at VC. Mankins is one of the BEST guards in the league, and VJack is a top 10 receiver...neither of which ARE/Lloyd were when they came here...so I'm not sure how you can compare them...ARE should have been a #3 receiver, VJ is a #1.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

scamp, other than teh DUI, what red flags does VJ have, and Mankins is a free agent, you sign him to a deal why would he hold out??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:17 AM

What other red flags then DUI's do you need? I've had enough of 'em to know that more than one is a huge flag. The only reason a holdout is a red flag is it shows he's not much of a team player. I don't blame him though, thats why I said I would go after him. Just pay him and he's happy to play.

Posted by: TheScamp75 | December 17, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:24 AM

What's the point of this post? You obviously knew I was talking about free agency; I didn't expect us to pick him up today. He's a guy we should go after. Would you rather have him or Roydell Williams?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse


The point is not whether we should just "go after him". The question is at what price.

VJax is going to be the top WR FA on the market.

He's going to have competition for his services and he's going to be able to drive up the asking price.

The kinds of contracts that Brandon marshall and Larry Fitzgerald have signed are going to set the market price for a "top" wide receiver like VJax - that's going to the schtick his agent is going to put out there.

Yes. I'd like Vincent Jackson on this team. If it was as simple as asking him to join, then that would be great.

But we need to plug beacoup holes on this team, we don't ahve alot of draft picks, we need to build quality depth. We are not one player away.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Cerrato's thinking right now, 'I didn't know that...'

Posted by: luvdc808 | December 17, 2010 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I just saw the piece by ESPN on the NE OL coach. The way he punishes his players on a daily basis sounds absolutely awesome. If our players went through practice like the NE OL coach requires, Shanny won't have the excuse that they weren't in "football shape."

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | December 17, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

No one could argue with signing Logan Mankins. VJAX could be debatable although personally would prolly fall into the "pro" camp.

But forget all that....mega-Drama city via REXY/DMac kicking in at 3...2...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

they are reporting grossman is starting sunday on PFT

Posted by: follybeach | December 17, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

cl, lots of stuff is blocked at my work/gulag, so is this 100 percent accurate?? I mean, part of me is pissed, then part of me is like who cares, its not like it could get worse.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse

How much leeway do ya'll think Snyder will give Shanahan if Sexy Rexy helps the Cowpies defense send all their jerseys to Canton after this weekend?

Posted by: Alan4 | December 17, 2010 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Yes, Grossman is starting Sunday. Report is the players are extremely upset.

Shanahan was a HORRIBLE hire! I'm done with his idiocy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 17, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Santana Moss is still giving us 70+ catches and 1000 yards.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2010 10:18 AM

If we had any kind of pass protection...moss would have 1265 yards and 11 touchdowns...right now.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

When you think about it, it's surprising he gets as much as he does. Opposing defenses should lock him down and make our other receivers beat us, we'd be screwed then! That's why he disappears some games, he's double or triple teamed. Makes you wonder why they don't do it more often.

A complimentary receiver is needed to take some pressure off. He has the potential to catch almost 100 passes, if VJax or Breastan is brought in next year, look for Moss to light it up! I hope he got another HGH dealer......

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Maybe we'll see a Quarterback By Committee on sunday.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 17, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

part of me is like who cares, its not like it could get worse.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:41 AM


You obviously missed the end of the Detroit game...and the first 7 years of The Human Turnover's career...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2010 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Sexy beeps

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 17, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

RedSkinHead

...why no one is poaching the Redskins' practice squad.


You're advertising the obvious: we haven't or don't have the kind of talent other teams covet.


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 8:53 AM


Damned if you do, damned if you don't. When we did lose men off our practice squad guys were whining "they should have been on our roster." When we don't lose them guys are whining "our practice squad sucks."

Simple fact for simpletons: It's working fine. The only guys we've lost off our practice squad have been promoted to our roster, and there have been a bunch of them. Just the way you want it.

Posted by: beep-beep | December 17, 2010 10:50 AM | Report abuse

The only reason a holdout is a red flag is it shows he's not much of a team player.


Remember: to us, pro football is a game.

The players see it as a business.

Football is their job.

And if on your job, if you feel that you aren't being paid according to what you deliver, you either demand a raise or seek new employment.

In Jackson's case, he did both.

But because of the contractual nature of pro football, couldn't just 'quit' THE chargers and go sell his services to the highest bidder.

Pro sports, remember, is essentially a socialist construct where wages are determined by a market set by the owners, not the players.

Owners, like the chargers, often block a player's mvement to another bidder out of spite.

So a player must sit out to be heard.

And I don't blame any man who sits out to demand to be paid what he feels he's worth.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2010 10:53 AM | Report abuse

You can't make this stuff up. I never liked the McNabb signing but they are now dragging him over the coals with these silly mind games. Why bench him in the last drive? Why does Allen then fly to Ariz to console McNabb? Why do they sign him to contract? Why do they now bench him? This is getting bad!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 17, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

monk, trotter was a player, however you're basing part of your arguement on BLloyd, whom when the Redskins traded for him, the ENTIRE league laughed at VC. Mankins is one of the BEST guards in the league, and VJack is a top 10 receiver...neither of which ARE/Lloyd were when they came here...so I'm not sure how you can compare them...ARE should have been a #3 receiver, VJ is a #1.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 17, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Randel El and Lloyd were signed at the same time. El was supposed to be the savior at PR, not receiver. Lloyd was brought in to be the difference maker at receiver. Noboday laughed at VC until it looked like Lloyd was a bust. Most people around the league saw his potential and how good he could be. Why is it so bad that I put Lloyd in there. Ok, he was traded, so he's a bad example because of that, but he had just as much potential at his position than all the rest.

VJax is a top 10 receiver? Maybe, maybe not. Here's a list of the best receivers in the NFL in my opinion. I don't think he's in the top 10, yet. Make some adjustments if you want to.

Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Roddy White
Calvin Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Marquis Colston
Anquan Boldin
Sydney Rice (fully healed? we'll see)
Brandon Marshall
Hakeem Nicks
Desean Jackson
Greg Jennings
Steve Smith
Vincent Jackson
Miles Austin
Deon Branch
Santonio Holmes
Mike Wallace
TO (too good of a year, couldn't help it)
Ocho Cinco
Kenny Britt
Dwayne Bowe
Eddie Royal

Posted by: monk811 | December 17, 2010 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan benchs McNabb. I say DS should fire the Mike and the Boy Wonder. They both scammed him for on great last payday. Niether of them know crap about winning football games.

Posted by: alaskantuf_99 | December 17, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan benchs McNabb. I say DS should fire the Mike and the Boy Wonder. They both scammed him for on great last payday. Niether of them know crap about winning football games.

Posted by: alaskantuf_99 | December 17, 2010 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Mcnabb Benched in favor of Grossman.
I would rather see what Beck can do.

Posted by: jeffhudds | December 17, 2010 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Why do they sign him to contract? Why do they now bench him? This is getting bad!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 17, 2010 11:01 AM
----------------
Look at these last 3 games as the 2011 pre-preseason. They already know what they have with McNabb. Give G man a shot, if it works great if it doesn't, maybe he's not worthy of being 2nd string. By all means don't worry about McNabb, he's already had his opportunity in the league and has millions to show for it.

Posted by: outsourced_in_va | December 17, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Look at these last 3 games as the 2011 pre-preseason. They already know what they have with McNabb. Give G man a shot, if it works great if it doesn't, maybe he's not worthy of being 2nd string. By all means don't worry about McNabb, he's already had his opportunity in the league and has millions to show for it.

Posted by: outsourced_in_va | December 17, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I am not worried about McNabb at all. But Grosman is not the answer either. I could see it if it were a younger QB like a Beck even. The whole locker room is now affected.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 17, 2010 11:28 AM | Report abuse

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