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Roster analysis: Santana Moss poised to become a free agent

By J.I. Halsell
J.I. Halsell

When it comes to Redskins who are impending free agents, Donovan McNabb's contract (until his benching) has garnered the most attention; while Santana Moss's impending free agency has largely flown under the radar. Moss has easily been the most productive Redskins wide receiver this season and has enjoyed a bit of a resurgence in Kyle Shanahan's offense. His 235 yards after the catch rank him fourth among NFC wide receivers.

The 2005 contract extension Moss signed shortly after being traded from the Jets has been renegotiated in every season between 2006-2009. The purpose of these four renegotiations was to help free up cap space, pushing money out into future cap years by virtue of the guaranteeing of otherwise non-guaranteed money. In spite of these renegotiations, Moss's contract has always remained structured to expire after the 2010 season. Due to the pushing out of money, however, the dead-money cap impact of these renegotiations is an accounting hit of $5.5 million if Moss is not with the club in 2011.

As Moss looks towards his next contract, whether it comes in Washington or elsewhere, he's more than likely looking at a market value similar to that of Nate Burleson, Donald Driver, and Chris Chambers, all of whom signed contracts in the $4.5-5 million per year neighborhood. The likely duration of a new Moss contract would be three years, which would keep the wide receiver under contract until age 34. Given Moss's age, Redskins cap guy Eric Schaffer and General Manager Bruce Allen will likely look to structure a deal that contains roster bonuses that reward Moss for being on the team at the beginning of each season and roster bonuses for each game he is on the 45-man active roster, thereby compensating him for staying healthy in the latter stage of his career.

As Moss faces the Eagles' secondary on Monday night, he looks to improve upon a zero-catch Week 4 performance against Philadelphia. That game was the only one this season in which Moss had fewer than five receptions. He's far from a me-first player, but with an unclear future as a Redskin, Santana Moss has more than just winning games as a motivating factor.


A native Washingtonian, J.I. Halsell spent two seasons as a salary cap analyst for the Washington Redskins. Prior to his tenure in Washington, he spent two years working in the NFL Management Council, and now pens a blog entitled "Under the Cap" for FootballOutsiders.com. Follow him on Twitter at @SalaryCap101.

By J.I. Halsell  | November 11, 2010; 6:04 AM ET
Categories:  Roster analysis, Santana Moss  
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Comments

This post is FIRST class garbage...I mean, really. "Roster analysis: Santana Moss poised to become a free agent." In February, this is a good post. Four days before a crucial primetime division game, it's ridiculous.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 7:01 AM | Report abuse

Roster analysis: Santana Moss poised to become a free agent


If anything, S Moss's contract status points out just how weak the redskin receiver group is.

Most teams would wave a 30 plus, smallish receiver 'Bye-Bye' and go young.

But given our situation, Moss will get re-upped as for right now, well, he's all we've got at the position.

A Armstrong is developing and Galloway/Williams invisible though given ample time to show what 'professional' receivers can accomplish.

We don't know what T Austin provides, and though quick, it's doubtful the diminutive B Banks could really help out in the receiving game.

And as much as folks shout "O-line!!!" you also need 3-4 solid ball catchers in today's pass happy, "Please Don't Hurt'em" NFL.

Linemen and receivers will dominate draft talk on this board in four months--watch.

What frustrates is that in NY and NE, 3-4 young receivers have been discovered in 2 seasons while the skins have waited--and in some cases given up on--the draft investment made at the position in 2008.

Somehow, the redskins will have to find a receiver in the draft (Julio Jones would satisfy) and FA to go along with Moss/Armstrong.

Too, with the jury still out on the IR'd Malcolm Kelly, you just have to hope he somehow pans out as a receiving option next year.

Otherwise, unlike S Moss, he's made a lot of money for nothing.


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 7:24 AM | Report abuse

This post is FIRST class garbage...I mean, really. "Roster analysis: Santana Moss poised to become a free agent." In February, this is a good post. Four days before a crucial primetime division game, it's ridiculous.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 7:01 AM

Jeez, Brownwood. I thought it was interesting -- the cap hit if he's not here next year and the projection of what his likely salary would be.

But, if you take this tack, then I hope you will start coming down on all the posters up here who are talking about who we take in next year's draft. How is that relevant with eight games still to play and with free agency ahead of the draft? And doesn't Santana's status with the Redskins next season influence your draft and free agency discussions?

Let me ask you this. On the last thread you were complaining "is this thing on?" Now that you get a new post you complain about it. (I detect a trend here.) Would you rather that they just leave up the old post until they go out to the Park and get something related to this week's game, or that they put up the cap analyst guy's insights on Santana's contract?

Posted by: beep-beep | November 11, 2010 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Moe, I don't wanna talk receivers until our play in the trenches resembles more of an offensive line than a punchline. Re-sign Moss for 2-3 years, get VJ on the open market, and hope that AA develops into a nice 3rd WR. The first two picks in the 2011 draft should be dedicated to fixing the O-line...nothing else matters until that's done...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 7:44 AM | Report abuse

"...the cap hit if he's not here next year and the projection of what his likely salary would be."


The thread suggests that Moss is affordable and should be re-upped.

But it'll take some after the season analysis to figure out which direction the team should in at the receiver position.

All we know is that for now, most defensive coordinators will do whatever it takes to isolate Moss/Cooley and force the other redskin receivers to make plays.


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 7:51 AM | Report abuse

We need to continue to draft Offensive Lineman...BUT

We need weapons, not stopgaps, at the WR and RB positions, but most "GM's" on this blog will say we can get a WR in the later rounds...

We already have that! We need speed and youth.

Posted by: rickyroge | November 11, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 7:24 AM

There should be some nice options at WR positions in rounds 2-4 if the juniors who are expected to come out do in fact enter the draft. Fuller for A&M, Criner from Arizona, and Childs from Arkansas come to mind.

As far as the Skins Oline goes with a little luck Shanny can get R Harris (RT) from the Broncos, as Harris has fallen out of favor. Also, the center from Carolina Kalil's contract is up. If he hits the market, that's a player I'd hope the team makes a run at.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 7:56 AM | Report abuse

First of all Beep, when I say "is this thing on" I'm not crowing for another post...just seeing if the thing works. I don't know about you, but from time to time the blog does a thing where the F5 refresh doesn't work and you have to actually post something to see the updated comments. Just figured "is this thing on" is a bit better than "TEST TEST".

Second, I DO get on posters here for talking draft in the middle of the season. I could understand if all hope was lost on this year and we were 2-6 or worse. But we're 4-4 in a mediocre conference and even though the McNabb controversy has taken the wind out our collective sails, we're still very much in the mix. It's completely assinine to talk draft now.

Which is why it's equally assinine to talk free agency now. Random internet slappies are gonna talk whatever...but I expect better from RI, which is supposed to fancy itself a part of a legit news organization. It's not like our guy Keim over at the Examiner has more to work with or anything...that dude cranks out actual team info while here we get number crunching and offseason talk. Just because I've known that for awhile doesn't make it any less frustrating...

So let me be clear: these posts are great...but ONLY if you're using this stuff in the offseason when there isn't actual FOOTBALL to talk about. Timing is everything...I mean, you wouldn't air a preview of the 2011 season during halftime of the Super Bowl, would you?

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Someone is in a bad mood when the first comment you read is, "This post is first class garbage".

Anyway, I'm hoping we draft interior offensive linemen early and often next year.

If that means trading back, so be it.

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 11, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Moe, I don't wanna talk receivers until our play in the trenches resembles more of an offensive line than a punchline. Re-sign Moss for 2-3 years, get VJ on the open market, and hope that AA develops into a nice 3rd WR. The first two picks in the 2011 draft should be dedicated to fixing the O-line...nothing else matters until that's done...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 7:44 AM
------------------------------------------
Of course, it makes more sense if you have McNabb under contract, and feel like the defensive line only requires tweaks. Perosnally, I don't think you can ever have enough quality offensive linemen, but a good nose tackle wouldn't be a bad way to go in the early rounds, either.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

brownwood

The first two picks in the 2011 draft should be dedicated to fixing the O-line...nothing else matters until that's done...


Doesn't adding VJax mean burning draft picks intended to 'fix the o-line'?

You can't have it both ways.

We've added 4 starters to our o-line last year.

What we just keep on adding linemen not realizing that without guys to throw to, a quarterback will still get sacked?

Get real: the skins will find guys to play on the line.

You do have FA and, trust me, capable guards, tackles, centers, and receivers can be found.

The redskins have philly-farted away draft picks for a past-his-prime quarterback and damaged good right tackle.

The first issue is finding additional picks to make up for those mistakes.

Flipping the used-to-be-good quarterback and #92 in trades would give the team more picks to draft lineman and receivers.

And the young quarterback to make it all work.

It is obvious to anyone what got sense that the playmakerless redskin roster with it's always hurt 'star' running back and out of gas quarterback isn't going to 'win now.'

I'd druther re-build the offense with the idea of winning 2 seasons from now as the group we got now just won't get it done.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to all the vets on here...Happy Veterans day.

Bring back Moss, sign VJ, 1st/2nd on a G/C combo, and has the team cut FDavis yet...cuz they should....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

rickyroge I sorta like the mixture at RB the Skins have now. For the second half of this year it'd be interesting to see how that shakes out. Torain is solid, but looks like one of those injury-prone players. K Williams has been solid. He's really inexperienced as a runner but he's solid. He's around 230, I wonder how much quicker he'd be at 220-225. Davis is a good pick up for the team, and Simpson has speed. All these player are young, but the potential is there.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

Doesn't adding VJax mean burning draft picks intended to 'fix the o-line'?

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:01 AM

No, Moe, he's gonna be a free agent.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 11, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

iH8dallas

I'm hoping we draft interior offensive linemen early and often next year.


One of the best guards in the league--Jehri Evans, Saints--was a 5th rounder.

In other words, you could find value in rounds 3-4-5 to satisfy offensive line needs.

Lineman have to be drafted every year, plain and simple.

But our offense needs playmakers who are young, speedy, big, and healthy.

I'd don't like the idea of using a high pick on a receiver/quarterback/running back, but hey, those are the guys who score last time I checked.

I watched the Raiders/Chiefs replay game and counted nothing but decent playmakers all over the place.

If you check out other games around the league, you see that most teams feature 3-4 solid ballcatchers, flexible backs, and 1 athlete tight end.

We got the tight end.

It's the other guys we have to work on.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:11 AM | Report abuse


Second, I DO get on posters here for talking draft in the middle of the season. I could understand if all hope was lost on this year and we were 2-6 or worse. But we're 4-4 in a mediocre conference and even though the McNabb controversy has taken the wind out our collective sails, we're still very much in the mix. It's completely assinine to talk draft now.
---------

brown, with all due respect, what about the right to post anything you'd like that's football related ? telling folks what and what not to post makes one sound assinine

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: beep-beep

No, he's (VJAX) gonna be a free agent.


Thanks.

I don't know everything.

But it's okay if you think I do.


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Moe, first of all quit with the McNabb trade stuff...that ain't happenin'. And I DEFINITELY didn't say anything about trading for VJ since the trade deadline is long past and he'll be a FA at season's end.

Second, how a fan of a team thats identity thru its glory years was it's O-line can be so casual about the line play is mindboggling. You're better than this, dude.

Look at the Jets. Right now they've got one of the best lines in football and they're making LT look like he found the fountain of youth after looking washed up in SD. OL play was a major reason we made the playoffs in '05. OL is why teams like the Pats and Colts stay atop the NFL standings despite having no-names playing around their franchise QBs.

McNabb helped bring names like Todd Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell to the forefront. If you put a line in front of him here, he could do it again.

I'm with you on a balanced use of FA and draft this offseason. But I'd rather see us get our line help from the draft so our line has more Trent Williams types than Randy Thomas/Jammal Brown types...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to all the vets on here...Happy Veterans day.

Bring back Moss, sign VJ, 1st/2nd on a G/C combo, and has the team cut FDavis yet...cuz they should....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:03 AM
-----------------------------------------
You're welcome. Happy Veterans day to yourself.

The Redskins cannot cut FDavis - he's the only tight end that knows the two minute offense and has the cardiovascular endurance...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

brown, with all due respect, what about the right to post anything you'd like that's football related ? telling folks what and what not to post makes one sound assinine

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:14 AM


Go back and read what I wrote...where did I say anything about someone's right to post something?

You have the RIGHT to post whatever you want. And I have the RIGHT to complain about it and call it assinine. With all due respect...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse


Thanks to all the vets on here...Happy Veterans day.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:03 AM |

cosign, thanks to our veterans and their families for all their sacrifices in serving our country


Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

hessone

It's completely assinine to talk draft now.

Son, it's never to early or soon to talk 'draft'.

I will be married for 25 years this December.

And no matter where I am, I'm always checking out if I should made a trade for some hot, young athletic tight end or flexible wide receiver.

Smart men are thinking about their next draftable options at all times.

Oh, wait a minute: you mean 'football' draft.

My bad.


Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

"he's more than likely looking at a market value similar to that of Nate Burleson, Donald Drive, and Chris Chambers"

By J.I. Halsell | November 11, 2010; 6:04 AM ET

I thought NERDS could spell!!!
Last time I checked his name was Donald DRIVER!!! The whole RI staff should put a little note on their monitors as a reminder:

'Don't forget: After you copy and paste do Spell Check AND Proofread!!!'

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

If you check out other games around the league, you see that most teams feature 3-4 solid ballcatchers, flexible backs, and 1 athlete tight end.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:11 AM

Except that the best team in the NFC now, the Giants, have built their team around line play.

=============================================

I'm with you on a balanced use of FA and draft this offseason. But I'd rather see us get our line help from the draft so our line has more Trent Williams types than Randy Thomas/Jammal Brown types...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:17 AM

Not sure McNabb would feel playing behind a line with 3/5 or even 4/5 are rookies or 1st year players. Particularly if you have a rookie at center.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

congrats to mrs moe...she should be getting hazard pay for putting up with your azz for....

I mean, congrats moe...these day's that quite the accomplishment...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:27 AM | Report abuse

Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin, Antwan Randle El, Clinton Portis, Jon Jansen, Andre Carter...

The Moss contract situation is yet another example of the nincompoop approach of the previous Skins regime and their approach to team building.

Inevitably, the Skins are faced with an aging veteran on the downside of their career and they either (1) keep him around past his prime and force him into the starting lineup to justify the bloated salary or (2) cut him and choke on the dead money.

It's basically the polar opposite approach of organizations like Indy, NE and Philly who reload with new talent and stay competitive virtually every year without obliterating their cap situation.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Brown, right before complaining about the substance of this post, you re-posted a mid-season letter grade from foxsport.com. They gave our 4-4 team a C. Not exactly earth shattering stuff there.

Posted by: mack1 | November 11, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

rickyroge I sorta like the mixture at RB the Skins have now. For the second half of this year it'd be interesting to see how that shakes out. Torain is solid, but looks like one of those injury-prone players. K Williams has been solid. He's really inexperienced as a runner but he's solid. He's around 230, I wonder how much quicker he'd be at 220-225. Davis is a good pick up for the team, and Simpson has speed. All these player are young, but the potential is there.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:05 AM
------------------------------------------
I'm intrigued with the backs on the roster, too. I don't think Keiland Williams has been so fantastic that a guy like Davis couldn't elbow him out for playing time, though. Simpson is supposed to be a burner but we haven't seen him play on offense, yet, so, is the guy just a kick returner or do they have bigger plans for him? One thing is for sure: all of the youngsters could learn a thing or two about pass blocking from CP. It is worth it to keep CP around just to provide that insurance for McNabb and also to teach the youngster how to keep their QB from getting killed.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Thanks to all the vets on here...Happy Veterans day.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:03 AM |

cosign, thanks to our veterans and their families for all their sacrifices in serving our country

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:22 AM


Easy co-sign, gentlemen. My dad was a vet and I miss the hell out of him today.

My hope is that one day we stop throwing corny parades and start using those funds to upgrade the condition of VA facilities. Better use of time, better use of money, and I can tell you second hand that the vets will appreciate that MUCH more than a damn float...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

brown, with all due respect, what about the right to post anything you'd like that's football related ? telling folks what and what not to post makes one sound assinine

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:14 AM

Go back and read what I wrote...where did I say anything about someone's right to post something?

You have the RIGHT to post whatever you want. And I have the RIGHT to complain about it and call it assinine. With all due respect...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:21 AM

I have a RIGHT to say that you both are wrong...beep-beep is the only one who can tell us what to and what not to post.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 11, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

You have the RIGHT to post whatever you want. And I have the RIGHT to complain about it and call it assinine. With all due respect...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

Very true, just like I have the right to call people NERDS, the right to say to beep 'are my fries done yet beoch?', and the right to say BrokeBackOps is a gay cowboy! Well, I think that last one is true, but you get my point.....

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse


You have the RIGHT to post whatever you want. And I have the RIGHT to complain about it and call it assinine. With all due respect...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:21 AM |

ih8 is right, someone is C-R-A-N-K-Y this morning

moe, everytime I go to the grocery store I'm draftin'

bean, I fell out of my chair, you did write cut FD86 ? wow, just wow

o-line or bust in this years draft, and no more draft bust

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Except that the best team in the NFC now, the Giants, have built their team around line play.

Best O-lines (IMO)

Jets

Giants

Pats

Saints

Colts

Vikes

Chargers

Bengals

Titans

Raiders

Browns

Falcons

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

hessone

It's completely assinine to talk draft now.

Son, it's never to early or soon to talk 'draft'.

I will be married for 25 years this December.

And no matter where I am, I'm always checking out if I should made a trade for some hot, young athletic tight end or flexible wide receiver.

Smart men are thinking about their next draftable options at all times.

Oh, wait a minute: you mean 'football' draft.

My bad.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:25 AM
------------------------------------------
Moe, words of wisdom, my friend... while you are looking for that replacement wide receiver, could you scout a little for a "narrow" receiver for me?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

hess, yes, cut FD TODAY, he's holding this team back....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Moe, words of wisdom, my friend... while you are looking for that replacement wide receiver, could you scout a little for a "narrow" receiver for me?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:34 AM
------------------------------------------
As comedian Steven Wright says, "Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

http://www.csnwashington.com/11/10/10/Can-Shanahans-Redskins-Win-in-Seasons-Se/landing.html?blockID=349608&feedID=6355

Can Shanahan’s Redskins Win in Season’s Second Half?

Short answer...recent history says no.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 8:25 AM
------------------------------------------
Moe, words of wisdom, my friend... while you are looking for that replacement wide receiver, could you scout a little for a "narrow" receiver for me?


Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

It's best to find a '3-way player', you know, someone that plays 'multiple positions'!!! It's perfect math:
3 phases of the game = 3 inputs

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse


hess, yes, cut FD TODAY, he's holding this team back....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:37 AM |

cosign, that's two cosigns in a row greg, we're on a roll. I only wish the future draft years hold success for our redskins, and the o-line and d-line is a good place to start

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Not sure McNabb would feel playing behind a line with 3/5 or even 4/5 are rookies or 1st year players. Particularly if you have a rookie at center.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:26 AM


Don't you think he'd feel better taking snaps from a guy like Maurkice Pouncey or Casey Rabach? Not sure where age of the player matters if the guy can get it done...

Mack, I posted a MIDSEASON report at MIDSEASON. That's discussing where the Redskins are now and their outlook for the rest of the season. Can't think of a better time than now for that kind of post. If you can't tell the difference between that and talking about impending FAs in 2011 when 2010 isn't even half over, then I won't waste either of our time trying to play teacher...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Can Shanahan’s Redskins Win in Season’s Second Half?

Short answer...recent history says no.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:38 AM |

Recent history doesn't apply because Shanny has no recent history here.

Posted by: Flounder21 | November 11, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Moss was a great Redskin. His two last-minute bomb TDs to burn the Cowboys was the greatest game in the last 20 years.

But... he's old. It's time to let him go. The Skins shouldn't keep him just because the bench is thin. He'll cost too much. It's time to play the young guys.

This team isn't getting any better until they drop the win-now fantasy and start building with young players. And it wouldn't hurt if a certain dwarfish owner got hit by a bus...

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | November 11, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse


Mack, I posted a MIDSEASON report at MIDSEASON. That's discussing where the Redskins are now and their outlook for the rest of the season. Can't think of a better time than now for that kind of post. If you can't tell the difference between that and talking about impending FAs in 2011 when 2010 isn't even half over, then I won't waste either of our time trying to play teacher...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:43 AM |

hey brown, you could wait till june when the board is dead

he-he-he

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

hess, hopefully you realize I'm kidding about FD...if not then wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

hess, hopefully you realize I'm kidding about FD...if not then wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:46 AM

Co-sign

Posted by: PlayAction | November 11, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Don't you think he'd feel better taking snaps from a guy like Maurkice Pouncey or Casey Rabach? Not sure where age of the player matters if the guy can get it done...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:43 AM

Two points.

1. I don't think there are too many rookie centers in the league, so is Pouncey more an anomaly or the norm. With the premium placed on getting after the qb, and more exotic blitzes counting on drafting another M Pouncey may not be the best strategy. If you get one great, I can see your point....but I don't know how realistic it is to expect a rookie to make all the line calls.

2. The Steelers have a veteran line. What you're saying is to start two rookies and Williams a 1st year player at the same time. We've seen the combination of Williams and Litch.. suffer with the blitz combos and line stunts. Imagine adding that to 2/3 interior line position.

I get the need for drafting Olinemen, but because of past sins, this team need to get young vets through FA to start and draft young players as backups. Otherwise expect the QB to be hit often, particularly early in the season. Just not sure if a vet QB would sign up for that.

Posted by: TWISI | November 11, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

My hope is that one day we stop throwing corny parades and start using those funds to upgrade the condition of VA facilities. Better use of time, better use of money, and I can tell you second hand that the vets will appreciate that MUCH more than a damn float...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:30 AM
------------------------------------------
VA hospitals - just another example of how the government would run health care if we had a socailized healthcare system in the US...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse


Mack, I posted a MIDSEASON report at MIDSEASON. That's discussing where the Redskins are now and their outlook for the rest of the season. Can't think of a better time than now for that kind of post.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 8:43 AM |

hey brown, you could wait till june when the board is dead

he-he-he

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

I definitely think they should resign Moss to a 3 year contract incentive laden deal. He'd only become more comfortable and knowledgeable in Shanny's offense after this year and I think could be even more dangerous. And IF McNabb is back, their comfort level with each other would be even stronger. I would like to see Moss running more deep routes though, instead of having McNabb throw deep most of the time to Armstrong.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse


hess, hopefully you realize I'm kidding about FD...if not then wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 8:46 AM |

and the walls came tumbling down

Posted by: hessone | November 11, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

But... he's old. It's time to let him go. The Skins shouldn't keep him just because the bench is thin. He'll cost too much. It's time to play the young guys.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | November 11, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

First off, some people harp on age a little too much. Just because players turn 30 doesn't mean they MAGICALLY hit the wall. Moss is still productive, but would be better suited as our 2nd WR.

Secondly, how do you figure he'll cost too much? Since he's still producing, just sign him to a 3-5 year deal, he might not see the end of that contract anyway. And it probably WILL be incentive laden anyway, so for us there is no loss here. We keep a good player and reward him for past accomplishments. 'Monk' it down!

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Can Shanahan’s Redskins Win in Season’s Second Half?

Excellent question.

I say a 5-3/4-4 finish is doable.

I think teams will see the lions' defensive approach as the road map for going after the redskin offense: attack the o-line gaps.

However, I'm optimistic that some player will 'step up' in the second half of the season on offense and be a major asset.

And I think that player might be Fred Davis or--start laughing--Stephon Heyer.

Getting Davis lose in the passing game is crucial.

And if Heyer can play right tackle well enough to let J Brown rest and heal for 2-3 games, that's also a major plus.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

It's basically the polar opposite approach of organizations like Indy, NE and Philly who reload with new talent and stay competitive virtually every year without obliterating their cap situation.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

NE and the Colts kept Brown and Harrison till they were 35+, so those aren't great examples. WR's can still be productive into there 30's, and when you have a franchise QB, more then likely you don't want to take away his go to WR's if they're still having success.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Fix the O-line. Fix the O-line. Fix the O-line. Fix the O-line.

It can't hurt to say it a few more times ... just in case anyone's counting.

We've spent so many years now ruining the careers of QB's, WR's and RB's that could have been fairly productive, if they'd just had a strong O-line to play behind.

If McNabbs smart, he'll stay home for the Tennessee and Giants games ... because those 2 defenses are going to expose how truly awful this group is.

Posted by: FootballCardSnatcher | November 11, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

VA hospitals - just another example of how the government would run health care if we had a socailized healthcare system in the US...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:57 AM


Please, for the love of God don't open up a political dialog on here...

I worked in healthcare for almost a decade and I can tell you it's not as cut and dry as you'd think.

And I'm leaving it at that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

It's basically the polar opposite approach of organizations like Indy, NE and Philly who reload with new talent and stay competitive virtually every year without obliterating their cap situation.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

NE and the Colts kept Brown and Harrison till they were 35+, so those aren't great examples. WR's can still be productive into there 30's, and when you have a franchise QB, more then likely you don't want to take away his go to WR's if they're still having success.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

I do not like where the Redskins are headed the second half. I like where the defense is going for the most part, but there comes a point in every season where the performance on one side of the ball overwhelms the other -- and ladies and gentlemen we have arrived at that point. The Skins offense is putrid.

Last year all five offensive linemen stank up the joint. This year four of five offensive linemen are stanking up the joint.

Nobody on the roster -- certainly not Fred Davis or Stephon Heyer -- can salvage the disaster that is Shanny's Offense at this point.

Last year the Skins finished 2-6. Give them an extra game this year 3-5.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

It's basically the polar opposite approach of organizations like Indy, NE and Philly who reload with new talent and stay competitive virtually every year without obliterating their cap situation.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

NE and the Colts kept Brown and Harrison till they were 35+, so those aren't great examples. WR's can still be productive into there 30's, and when you have a franchise QB, more then likely you don't want to take away his go to WR's if they're still having success.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse
---------------------------------

So two exceptions for exceptional players mean NE and Indy don't overload their cap and stay competitive every year. Interesting.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 11, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

If they sign Moss to a 3-4 year deal, they have filled the slot receiver spot, (where he could be very productive) but still need to go get a true #1 WR. So how much $ do you commit to a 30+ slot guy?

After rebuilding the O line and settling the QB situation that is...

And getting some RB's.

Oh, and FS and NT.

And....

Posted by: edvar | November 11, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Losing free agents like Moss or even McNabb isn't always bad because don't forget that will make the skins eligible for supplemental draft picks; so either way if they stay or go I'm fine with it; what do you all think about that?

Posted by: hammer4 | November 11, 2010 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Can Shanahan’s Redskins Win in Season’s Second Half?

Excellent question.

I say a 5-3/4-4 finish is doable.

I think teams will see the lions' defensive approach as the road map for going after the redskin offense: attack the o-line gaps.

However, I'm optimistic that some player will 'step up' in the second half of the season on offense and be a major asset.

And I think that player might be Fred Davis or--start laughing--Stephon Heyer.

Getting Davis lose in the passing game is crucial.

And if Heyer can play right tackle well enough to let J Brown rest and heal for 2-3 games, that's also a major plus.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 9:11 AM
------------------------------------------
I would say this team gets better only if they make some offensive adjustments that take into light that:

-The offensive line isn't getting it done - especially up the middle when facing 3-4 defenses and large 4-3 defensive tackles. Plays running away from the middle are going to be the best option when facing 3-4 defenses.

-McNabb does his best work when improvising, and his worst work when he has been put into a box with a load of constraints. Face it, when the offensive line can't block, and the receivers are struggling to get open, every passing play is improvised.

-The receiving corps is Moss and a bunch of guys. The team has to look at the passing game from the 100,000 foot level and say, "Okay, who are the 4-5 guys most likely to get open and catch the ball? Those guys will be in on passing downs." This might mean you have big guys like Sellers, Cooley, Davis and Torain in on passing downs.

-Jammal Brown isn't going to get healthier this season. My suspicion he is working against scar tissue and needs a cleanup procedure to make the hip right. It's time to IR him, let him get it fixed and start working on coming back next season. Meanwhile, start Heyer and elevate Robinson or Capers as the backup.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

If McNabb is smart, he'll stay home for the Tennessee and Giants games

Yeah, these games will be painful to watch.

But hey, as neither team is undefeated, it means they can be beaten.

If if other teams can beat them, why not us?

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

So two exceptions for exceptional players mean NE and Indy don't overload their cap and stay competitive every year. Interesting.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | November 11, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

No, 2 examples that display the fact that you don't have to dump a productive WR if he's in his thirties. I understand the youth movement for the team, but some of ya'll kill me with the whole "cut him loose when he gets in his thirties regardless of his play" thing.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Losing free agents like Moss or even McNabb isn't always bad because don't forget that will make the skins eligible for supplemental draft picks; so either way if they stay or go I'm fine with it; what do you all think about that?

Posted by: hammer4 | November 11, 2010 9:39 AM


Not when you have a gaping hole at their spots and you're only getting mid-round picks in return. If you think the offense is bad now, think about how bad it would be with The Human Turnover and Joey "My Jersey Number is Also My Age!" Galloway as your top QB/WR combo...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

VA hospitals - just another example of how the government would run health care if we had a socailized healthcare system in the US...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 8:57 AM

Please, for the love of God don't open up a political dialog on here...

I worked in healthcare for almost a decade and I can tell you it's not as cut and dry as you'd think.

And I'm leaving it at that.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 9:26 AM
------------------------------------------
I've been the beneficiary of socialized medicine and it is not the panacea that a lot of people make it out to be. Not to open the political debate, but how can anyone believe the federal government could run healthcare more efficiently than private industry when the federal government has done a poor job managing similar "business-like" entities such as the postal service or Amtrak?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

coming off the bye, and at the halfway point, I'm anxious to see what changes, adjustments have been, or will be made offensively.....something has to have changed...simply trotting out the same plays, gameplan that was so largely unsuccessful the first 8 games, will not cut it the last 8 games...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I've been the beneficiary of socialized medicine and it is not the panacea that a lot of people make it out to be. Not to open the political debate


Somebody should open the debate.

I spent 5 hours in an emergency room last night with a sick relative.

The place was filled with what no one likes to talk about in America today: poor people.

We had insurance, so we went in got care, and waited.

But I thought to myself: so who pays for the poor when they get sick?

And if we don't treat them because they don't have money, do we want a society where the sick and diseased lie out in the street just so we can say we don't have 'socialized medicine'?

I guess once the Right takes over in January, we should all be excited that poor sick children and their parents won't have socialized medical care.

Thank god.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

coming off the bye, and at the halfway point, I'm anxious to see what changes, adjustments have been, or will be made offensively.....something has to have changed...simply trotting out the same plays, gameplan that was so largely unsuccessful the first 8 games, will not cut it the last 8 games...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 9:55 AM


Exactly...the Eagles D can certainly be had so if there's a time to whip out the goods it's now.

Wait a minute...I just realized how that sounds. Too bad we're not playing Favre this week...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 11, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

coming off the bye, and at the halfway point, I'm anxious to see what changes, adjustments have been, or will be made offensively.....something has to have changed...simply trotting out the same plays, gameplan that was so largely unsuccessful the first 8 games, will not cut it the last 8 games...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 9:55 AM
------------------------------------------
Yes, I agree. There comes a point when a coach has to acknowledge that it is no longer a problem of the players not understanding the offense. I think the Shanahans are at that point now. It is now about using the talent that you have in the best way that you can. I don't think the bye week could have come at a better time for that type of relaity check.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I appreciate every thing Tana has done for the Skins but it might be time to target a younger WR for his replacement.

I'd be fine with Sims-Walker or James Jones.

Posted by: elfreako | November 11, 2010 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 8:28 AM | Report abuse

NE and the Colts kept Brown and Harrison till they were 35+, so those aren't great examples. WR's can still be productive into there 30's, and when you have a franchise QB, more then likely you don't want to take away his go to WR's if they're still having success.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse


No. They are perfect examples. Troy Brown wasn't playing on a break-the-bank contract that needed to be restructured. He was very useful to the team into his twilight, and then the Pats unceremoniously did not offer him anything after the 2007 season when the contract expired.

Marvin Harrison was a perennial Pro Bowl player who was averaging well over 1000 yards, double-digit TDs, and 100+ catches a year when the Colts extended him around 2004. But the contract was structured in such a way that the Colts had options at various intervals to guarantee portions of the money or not.

Besides, the Harrison contract for the Colts is the exception and not the norm.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm wondering if we should spy Vick with LL30 and let our other DBs handle Jackson and Maclin like in the first game. Landry can prowl the line of scrimmage for McCoy runs and Vick scrambles. Hall, Rogers, Moore and Buchanon will have to jam and not let anything get behind them.

Posted by: quinn3 | November 11, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Re: Eagles

I hope Vick scrambles this week.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I guess once the Right takes over in January, we should all be excited that poor sick children and their parents won't have socialized medical care.

Thank god.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Moe, here's what they want us to do. We will pass the hat around in church to pay for someone's cancer treatment and if we don't come up with the amount required, well, then that's God's will.

God's will.

This is their plan.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

I'd be fine with Sims-Walker or James Jones.

are those guys free agents??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 11, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

affirmative greg.

Posted by: elfreako | November 11, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Re: Eagles

I hope Vick scrambles this week.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Are you serious? We don't want him out of the pocket! The only scrambling going on should be his brains!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I've been the beneficiary of socialized medicine and it is not the panacea that a lot of people make it out to be. Not to open the political debate


Somebody should open the debate.

I spent 5 hours in an emergency room last night with a sick relative.

The place was filled with what no one likes to talk about in America today: poor people.

We had insurance, so we went in got care, and waited.

But I thought to myself: so who pays for the poor when they get sick?

And if we don't treat them because they don't have money, do we want a society where the sick and diseased lie out in the street just so we can say we don't have 'socialized medicine'?

I guess once the Right takes over in January, we should all be excited that poor sick children and their parents won't have socialized medical care.

Thank god.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse


If we want to open a debate, let the first topic of discussion be about the false dichotomy of (1) keeping it exactly how it is now or (2) socializing healthcare.

Reasonable people understand there are other options and solutions.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

My point being is that Moss won't break the bank if you resign him, and he's got a couple more productive years in him. And there's already numerous gaping holes on the team, so you're only creating another one by not resigning your most effective WR. Now if you were pretty much set at every other position, and there was a rookie who could step in right away or a big time FA, THEN I could understand letting him go. But for right now, it wouldn't make sense because those options aren't viable.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Are you serious? We don't want him out of the pocket! The only scrambling going on should be his brains!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 11, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Very serious.

I want him out of the pocket, in the open field, where he can't hide behind the NFL's Skirt-Wearing Rules, where he counts as a regular ball carrier...

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Moe, here's what they want us to do. We will pass the hat around in church to pay for someone's cancer treatment and if we don't come up with the amount required, well, then that's God's will.

God's will.

This is their plan.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse


And the other side's plan is to impose Soviet-style Stalinist communism...oh, the choices we have to make...

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

My point being is that Moss won't break the bank if you resign him, and he's got a couple more productive years in him. And there's already numerous gaping holes on the team, so you're only creating another one by not resigning your most effective WR. Now if you were pretty much set at every other position, and there was a rookie who could step in right away or a big time FA, THEN I could understand letting him go. But for right now, it wouldn't make sense because those options aren't viable.

Posted by: ga8085 | November 11, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

My point was to moan and complain about the previous FO's policy of overpaying people up-front and all the contract-related baggage we have to deal with today as a result.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

And the other side's plan is to impose Soviet-style Stalinist communism...oh, the choices we have to make...

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:29 AM | Report abuse

"Stalinist" communism? Not run-of-the-mill Marxist-Lenninism? Nancy Pelosi is going to purge the Army and slaughter the Kulaks? I hadn't heard...

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Author appears to be saying Moss is worth another two or three years at approximately $5 million per season, plus performance incentives. Fair enough that -- especially in consideration of so many other needs -- and certainly much better value than so many others on the current roster too. Sign him.

Would be curious to see similar analysis on what it might take to resign McNabb for the same period of time.

Posted by: Vic1 | November 11, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just the pessimist in me, but I can't help thinking of Moss as always being a bad-plant-hammy-tweak away from missing four games. But it does make sense to try and resign him to a reasonable, short, incentive laden deal. Especially since the words "dead money cap impact" drive me nuts.

Posted by: NYPDee | November 11, 2010 10:45 AM | Report abuse

"Stalinist" communism? Not run-of-the-mill Marxist-Lenninism? Nancy Pelosi is going to purge the Army and slaughter the Kulaks? I hadn't heard...

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse


Yes. Stalinist.

Not those half-stepping weenies Marx and Lennin. I'm talking secret police, people disappearing in the middle of the night, gulags in Siberia...the whole nine yards.

Posted by: p1funk | November 11, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I guess once the Right takes over in January, we should all be excited that poor sick children and their parents won't have socialized medical care.

Thank god.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Moe, here's what they want us to do. We will pass the hat around in church to pay for someone's cancer treatment and if we don't come up with the amount required, well, then that's God's will.

God's will.

This is their plan.

Posted by: Pepper5 | November 11, 2010 10:14 AM
-----------------------------------------
Do you think socialized medicine run by an inefficient government entity fixes either of the problems you have mentioned? Look, I agree both of the issues you have mentioned are problems, but having some huge, inefficient government program is not the answer. The problem is the US citizens have been brain-washed into thinking its an all or nothing proposition. It is not. Healthcare can remain privatized and those two problems you mention can be fixed. The real problem is the people who are trying to fix it don't understand all of the issues and they didn't consult with the people who do know.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 11, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

There is a younger cheaper version of Moss out there. Sinorice Moss

Posted by: kingpenn1 | November 11, 2010 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Given that we don't have another quality WR on the roster who would start elsewhere (Armstrong in a No. 3 or 4 on a good team), Moss has a lot of value to the Redskins. Even if the Redskins can pick up a tall, physical WR in free agency like a Vincent Jackson, there still is the need for a fast WR who can make yards after the catch like Moss. Moss has shown little signs of slowing down this year and has flourished even with less talent around him. I'd hate to think how weak our passing attack would be without Moss on the roster.

Given our more critical roster needs on the O-Line, RB, and possibly QB if McNabb is not resigned, it should be a no-brainer to re-sign Moss once a labor agreement is reached. Also, Moss can come cheaper if he resigns for 2-3 years during the season. He's been very productive and a team-first guy his 6 years with the team and has some mileage left on his odometer.

Posted by: wizfan89 | November 11, 2010 11:20 AM | Report abuse

I guess once the Right takes over in January, we should all be excited that poor sick children and their parents won't have socialized medical care.

Thank god.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 11, 2010 10:02 AM

Where did they say they were gonna take away medicare?

The Dems couldn't do anything we the held every level of government....maybe something will get done now.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | November 11, 2010 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"Due to the pushing out of money, however, the dead-money cap impact of these renegotiations is an accounting hit of $5.5 million if Moss is not with the club in 2011."

Wait, isn't that GOOD? Otherwise, you've got that 5.5 coming due when there's a capped year. Give him the cash now.

Posted by: WorstSeat | November 12, 2010 1:30 PM | Report abuse

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