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Posted at 6:06 AM ET, 12/22/2010

Roster analysis: Redskins have plenty of cost-cutting options

By J.I. Halsell

J.I. Halsell

At first, it seemed as though Donovan McNabb's November contract extension was was bringing clarity to his future. But with his benching over the final three games of the season, the veteran quarterback's future is once again uncertain.

What is absolutely certain is that if McNabb is listed as the team's third quarterback for the final two games of the season, he will lose $31,250 for each of those games, because his contract contains a per-game roster bonus provision that is contingent upon him being on the 45-man active roster.

McNabb isn't the only Redskin who may not be in Washington in 2011. By terminating or trading the following players between now and June 1, 2011, the Redskins can save the following amounts of accounted money on a possible salary cap:

• RB Clinton Portis: -$5,645,500
• LB London Fletcher: -$4,900,000
• QB Donovan McNabb: -$4,750,000
• CB DeAngelo Hall: -$4,400,000
• DT Albert Haynesworth: -$3,400,000
• C Casey Rabach: -$3,000,000
• NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu: -$2,500,000
• OG Derrick Dockery: -$1,565,000
• DE Adam Carriker: -$1,420,000
• OG Artis Hicks: -$1,400,000
• DE Phillip Daniels: -$1,250,000
• DE Vonnie Holliday: -$1,250,000
• TE Fred Davis: -$555,000
• DE Andre Carter: $2,909,998

The Redskins have $97.6 million in team salary accounted for in 2011; this, of course, does not account for 2011 free agent signings or draft picks, nor incentives earned by 2010 performance. While it is unlikely that the entire group of players listed above will be released or traded by June 1, the group accounts for $33.1 million of cap savings.

If the Redskins release or trade Andre Carter, then the net difference of his before and after team salary number is actually an increase of $2.9 million. This results from the multiple restructurings of his contract that pushed money out into future years.

Fred Davis is curiously listed above because he's a player with legitimate trade value. Davis -- a non-factor for the majority of the season -- has shown flashes of his potential, particularly in 2009, when he filled in for an injured Chris Cooley. As Davis enters the final year of his rookie contract, the Redskins could trade the athletic tight end for a draft pick(s), and in return, Davis's new team receives a bargain in his base salary of $555,000.


A native Washingtonian, J.I. Halsell spent two seasons as a salary cap analyst for the Washington Redskins. Prior to his tenure in Washington, he spent two years working in the NFL Management Council, and now pens a blog entitled "Under the Cap" for FootballOutsiders.com. Follow him on Twitter at @SalaryCap101.

By J.I. Halsell  | December 22, 2010; 6:06 AM ET
Categories:  Donovan McNabb, Roster analysis  
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Next: Maake Kemoeatu headed to injured reserve

Comments

No, don't trade Fred Davis! Trade Cooley instead. I want a younger more athletic team. Haven't we learned to keep our too few young talented players yet?

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2010 6:28 AM | Report abuse

Still have Paulsen who is a good blocker and a rookie.

Posted by: westjr88 | December 22, 2010 6:38 AM | Report abuse

Trading Fred Davis would be INSANE. The kid is going to be a Pro Bowler so let's keep him for goodness sake.

Posted by: SkinsFanNYC | December 22, 2010 6:43 AM | Report abuse

No, don't trade Fred Davis! Trade Cooley instead. I want a younger more athletic team. Haven't we learned to keep our too few young talented players yet?

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2010 6:28 AM


It's not that cut and dry...first of all, Cooley ain't that old. Secondly, Cooley can block. Davis can't. Or did you forget the blocked FG against the Texans?

The only way I'm in favor of keeping Davis long term is if he drastically improves his blocking or if he somehow transitions to WR. Otherwise, he's too much of a liability on plays where the ball isn't coming to him.

BTW...I pasted the Studs and Duds from Keim at the Examiner on the previous thread...RI is always good for putting up something new right after I do that...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 6:48 AM | Report abuse

Also,
Orakpo may have injured his lower extremities, but he needs to see a neck specialist for as many times he was in a choke hold by the O-linemen he faced!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2010 6:48 AM | Report abuse

Looking at that list, the only guys reasonably expected to back in 2011 is Fletcher, Hall, Davis and Carriker. Otherwise, we're dumping a lot of big salaries in addition to the massive slash-and-burn from last offseason. Looks like we'll be in the running for some FA help...provided anyone even wants to come here for the right reasons...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 6:55 AM | Report abuse

I hear ya Brownwood on the blocking. I would say Cooley ain't all that either and football is a funny game where the young guys need to play in order to get better. My memeory is FD did fine last year when Cooley went down. true Cooley isn't that old, but he can't run away from anyone. He may get us a higher pick than trading Fred Davis and we'd not be losing a great deal IMO.

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

The only way I'm in favor of keeping Davis long term is if he drastically improves his blocking or if he somehow transitions to WR. Otherwise, he's too much of a liability on plays where the ball isn't coming to him.


Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 6:48 AM

See Paulsen

Posted by: joeboggs | December 22, 2010 6:59 AM | Report abuse

Also,
Orakpo may have injured his lower extremities, but he needs to see a neck specialist for as many times he was in a choke hold by the O-linemen he faced!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | December 22, 2010 6:48 AM

Isn't that the truth, he was robbed out of numerous sacks this year because of the choke hold!

Posted by: joeboggs | December 22, 2010 7:05 AM | Report abuse

brown....
Where do you think Grossman fits in next year? #2? I'm fairly certain it won't be #1 unless we draft a QB and he has too.
I just can't see McNabb coming back.

Posted by: westjr88 | December 22, 2010 7:05 AM | Report abuse

See what about Paulsen, Joe? This is where full sentences come in handy...

Paulsen seems like a good depth player...I'd be fine with him backing up Cooley and trading Davis if the price is right. It's all academic since we don't have anyone with trade value that we'd be willing to part with...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 7:07 AM | Report abuse

What is shocking is how little talent we have. There are 5 Redskins that could comfortably make the Eagles rostr: Orakpo, Laundry, Fletcher, Cooley and Mike Williams. That is pathetic and all one needs to know to understand why our season unfolded the way it did.

Posted by: 3rings | December 22, 2010 7:09 AM | Report abuse

West, it depends on how he finishes up this year...if he plays like he played in Dallas, then I think he's back. If reverts to "Human Turnover" status, then bringing him back in ANY capacity is a tough sell. Kyle Shanahan seems to have a boner for the guy so I guess the chances are good he's back at least as the primary backup.

As for McNabb, kinda seems like his return is based solely on whether Shanahan gets back what he wants for him in a trade...as we saw with AH, he won't take what's on the table...he wants what he wants to a crippling fault. I could see this dragging right into preseason...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 7:15 AM | Report abuse

3rings, not sure what the Eagles roster has to do with anything...I mean, the Pats have the best team in the league and how many guys do they have that would make ANY roster in the league? Brady, Mankins, Mayo, Gostkowski, maybe one of those young TEs...don't think it's much more than that.

Talent matters, but coaching and QB play is what puts you over the top. We didn't get good returns on either investment and that's why we're a 5 win team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 7:27 AM | Report abuse

lol that would be funny to see us actually get rid of sleepy davis in a trade I hope we can then maybe there is hope for trading the oft injured lmao hammy manic mk, lmao I would love to see us finally get rid of the last of triplets of woe!! Cooley is like 2 or 3 years older than Sleepy davis , A WAY BETTER BLOCKER AND A MUCH MUCH BETTER WR! YOU DEF GOTTA KEEP COOLEY, HE IS A TRUE REDSKIN AND THE BEST WIDEOUT ON THE TEAM BY A LONG SHOT! TRADE Davis, too many drops and not enough game breaking plays compared to the great cpt Chaos!!!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 7:50 AM | Report abuse

I could see this dragging right into preseason...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 7:15 AM

Oh man, let's hope not. Won't the team that wants McNabb want to have him around for OTA's and the beginning of camp? If he's still on our roster by preseason time, I would think his value becomes almost nil and it's cut and release situation.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 7:50 AM | Report abuse

I'd say a maximum of three of the players above will still be on the team next year: Adam Carriker, London Fletcher, and Fred Davis. I wouldn't mind if Davis was traded though if they could get some decent value for him. Cooley's got at least a few more years, and I like what I've seen out of Logan Paulsen.

Posted by: Kelso4 | December 22, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

oh yeah, and Deangelo Hall too!

Posted by: Kelso4 | December 22, 2010 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 7:50 AM

You always throw a few headscratchers into the mix. It would be best for the Redskins if Kelly and Davis become contributors here, even though we will all lament the resulting death of the nickname "triplets of woe". Speaking of nicknames, will you ever let Davis live down one oversleep from 3 years ago? Also, Cooley is neither a "WR" nor a "wideout".

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Still have Paulsen who is a good blocker and a rookie.

Posted by: westjr88 | December 22, 2010 6:38 AM
------------------------------------------
Yes, and he is more of the prototypical Shanahan tight end. For those of you speaking how great Fred Davis is, chill. Fred couldn't block his way out of a wet paper bag which is why Paulsen has been getting the playing time here late in the season. Davis will be good in someone's offense, but I don't think it will be Shanahan's. Better to trade the guy for picks and get another tight end in the low rounds just like they did Paulsen. Last I saw, Cooley isn't showing any signs of slowing down.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 8:00 AM | Report abuse

Let me get this out of the way first:

NNNNNNNEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

Here's what's gonna happen with these players, a YES or NO for being cut:

• RB Clinton Portis: -$5,645,500 YES
• LB London Fletcher: -$4,900,000 NO!!!
• QB Donovan McNabb: -$4,750,000 YES
• CB DeAngelo Hall: -$4,400,000 NO
• DT Albert Haynesworth: -$3,400,000 TRADED
• C Casey Rabach: -$3,000,000 NO
• NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu: -$2,500,000 YES OR BACKUP
• OG Derrick Dockery: -$1,565,000 YES
• DE Adam Carriker: -$1,420,000 NO
• OG Artis Hicks: -$1,400,000 NO
• DE Phillip Daniels: -$1,250,000 YES
• DE Vonnie Holliday: -$1,250,000 YES
• TE Fred Davis: -$555,000 NO
• DE Andre Carter: $2,909,998 TRADED

Posted by: monk811 | December 22, 2010 8:05 AM | Report abuse

Oh man, let's hope not. Won't the team that wants McNabb want to have him around for OTA's and the beginning of camp? If he's still on our roster by preseason time, I would think his value becomes almost nil and it's cut and release situation.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 7:50 AM


Trust me...I hope to God I'm loud wrong on this, but after seeing how Shanahan has handled the AH debacle and the McNabb benching/re-benching, I have ZERO confidence that he'll exhibit a flawless execution of any transaction for McNabb. If there was a way for us to fire Shanahan the GM and keep Shanahan the coach, I would be all for it...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse

What can we get for Andre Carter in a trade?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:06 AM

You know who seems like the perfect guy to handle getting all that's getable for McNabb? Bruce Allen. Does he just handle the paperwork that Shanahan gives the nod to? Oh yeah, he also gets credit for bringing back the gold pants which look great with both jerseys.

I do think that the contracts being written since Allen has been around have been far more advantageous than the crazy ones we are used to seeing. Even the McNabb headscratcher was relatively painless when the dust settled.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

the nickname sleepy is more comical and catchy to me than spiteful about him sleeping through an alarm clock, kinda like a dwarf name lol I've given on up on hope for good outta the 2nd rd busts not so much davis but def mk seems like too much of a wuss faking than a real problem with hammy injuries! I think shanny has held out hope to see what mk has most likly to trade him fo a 6th or 7th I'd rather have that then outright cut the bum, but even that might be way more than what he is worth!! After 3 seasons HE IS DEF A BUST! No questions about that!!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

brownwood...

I beg to differ on the opinion that he mishandled Haynesworth. Haynesworth has been getting way to much "benefit of the doubt" that he hasn't earned.

Haynesworth quit against the Eagles.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

the nickname sleepy is more comical and catchy to me than spiteful about him sleeping through an alarm clock, kinda like a dwarf name lol I've given on up on hope for good outta the 2nd rd busts not so much davis but def mk seems like too much of a wuss faking than a real problem with hammy injuries! I think shanny has held out hope to see what mk has most likly to trade him fo a 6th or 7th I'd rather have that then outright cut the bum, but even that might be way more than what he is worth!! After 3 seasons HE IS DEF A BUST! No questions about that!!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

cooley IS A PASS CATCHING TIGHT END AND OUR BEST RECEIVER!! LMAO I SAID WIDEOUT NOT WR BECAUSE BECAUSE HE IS HAS THE MOST CATCHEs ON THE TEAM!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

trading FD, lets be realistic, what's the most you could expect in a return?? and only sane/reasonable people please respond...a 5th?? Ok, so lets say they do that, you now have cooley and ? because Paulson is an unknown...so now what happens is you have to spend a draft pick on a TE...yeah, they have so many picks that they want to be doing this....instead of trading FD, lets actually USE him in the passing game...the TE spot is a position of strength and some depth on this team..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

damn phone could see what I was typing!! LMAO LMAO I CALLED COOLEY A WIDEOUT BC HE HAS THE MOST CATCHES ON OUR TEAM AND IS THE BEST RECEIVER!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I have ZERO confidence that he'll exhibit a flawless execution of any transaction for McNabb.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse
-------------------------

McNabb will be our starting QB next year. Let's not forget McNabb has only made it through a 16 game season once or twice in his career. Shanahan knows he needs a capable backup who can come in and win.

We all know McNabb can win with this team. For every pass he puts in the turf, our receivers drop two and bat another straight to a defender.

Grossman did what you would expect for a veteran backup to do: take advantage of a poor defense with no current game film.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

What can we get for Andre Carter in a trade?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:13 AM


That depends...what's your favorite flavor ice cream?

MC51, the further we go into this new regime, the more it looks like BA is just a figure-head to pacify the fanbase. His old man was one of the most beloved Redskin coaches of all-time, and thus far his greatest contribution to the franchise is simply bringing back the gold pants. Not exactly the kind of impact we were looking for from our front office exec.

Although I am a BIG fan of the gold pants...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

What can we get for Andre Carter in a trade?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:13 AM

I would even take a conditional pick if we ain't going to use him...as long as we trade him somewhere we think he can succeed...and get the pick.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

MC51, the further we go into this new regime, the more it looks like BA is just a figure-head to pacify the fanbase

what are you basing this on brown??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

I'd trade Cooley long before I'd trade Davis.

Cooley's been a good guy but it's time to clean house and get younger and hungrier.

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

I could see us packaging sleepy davis, mcCHUMP, And fat al as part of a deal with the panthers to move up to number 1 to grab the best QB ANDREW LUCK! Cam newton is gonna be a bust! Tebow has a better shot at being a PRO QB than newton does!! He will have to be on the bench at least 3 years from what I seen from his style to be able to play in a PRO Offense!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:18 AM

Not to speak for him, but I think BW26's point is that Shanahan should've taken the 4th round offer the Titans had on the table before the trade deadline.

Hard to argue that after all the turmoil he caused and the fact that the chances of getting something as good as a 4th now seem unlikely.

Maybe, instead of it being a case of Shanahan being stubborn (He's worth a 3rd and I'm not taking ANY less!) it's a case of Shanahan having something we don't readily see in him...hope & optimism. (Haslett and I are going to get through to him and make him a valuable player here.) Maybe, maybe not. I will say that after the Ravens preseason game, I noticed Trevor Price seek Shanahan out on the field after the game for a warm greeting and half-hug. Those two butted heads TERRIBLY in Denver...kinda sorta similar to the Haynesworth situation. Price credits Shanahan with helping him mature and saving his career. Maybe Shanahan thought he could do the same thing with AH92, but Albert wouldn't let him and he eventually had to cut bait.

Even if you hate him, you gotta admit that Shanahan is a smart guy. Rejecting a 4th before the deadline seems irrational and stupid. Stubborness makes smart people irrational and stupid...but so does hope and optimism. Could be wrong. Just a theory.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

I beg to differ on the opinion that he mishandled Haynesworth. Haynesworth has been getting way to much "benefit of the doubt" that he hasn't earned.

Haynesworth quit against the Eagles.

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:18 AM


Ricky, don't misunderstand me...you'll NEVER hear me give AH any benefit of the doubt. What I meant is that Shanahan blew it by not trading him while he still had value...regardless of how good he WAS or is on paper, the fact of the matter is he's a backup with a piss-poor attitude. To date, Shanahan's biggest mistake is not taking the 4th round pick the Titans had on the table for a guy we're not using anyway.

Matt, I've got a hard time seeing McNabb back here next year...A LOT will have to change for that to happen, including (and not limited to) both Shanahans leaving, a competent new regime that knows how to get the most out of #5, and a new owner that won't F it all up. Since I can't see any of that coming to fruition, it's a safe bet that DMac has played his last down as a Redskin.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I'd trade Cooley long before I'd trade Davis.

Cooley's been a good guy but it's time to clean house and get younger and hungrier.

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 8:34 AM

I'd like to see Cooley score in the Superbowl for the Redskins.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Santana Moss is open to returning to Redskins


We've said it before and will say it again: get Santana Moss re-upped asap.

A 2-3 year deal with a serious guaranteed money is justified.

Business wise, Moss knows the redskins need him more than he needs them.

If he decided to forgo re-signing with the redskins to join another team, it would totally re-direct the front office's draft priorities.

The irony of his time as a redskin is that while Portis has been the off and on again face of the offense, Moss has been more consistent, steady, and productive.

And he's been a better locker room citizen.

Re-sign Moss asap, it's a no-brainer.

That is, if you have brains.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I think Mallet would fit great into this system, not as great as Luck would but a heck of alot better than newton would ever! He's got nice size, what is he 6'7? A widow-maker arm also but has some accuracy issues I think I heard. Just think he would have to sit awhile before staring but he is already from a "pro wco" so not as long as someone like newton would have to sit to learn and adapt to a "Pro" offense

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

What can we get for Andre Carter in a trade?

Posted by: rickyroge | December 22, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Last year: A ham sandwich with all the trimmings.

This year: A ham sandwich, hold the ham!

Posted by: monk811 | December 22, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

We all know McNabb can win with this team.
------------------------------------------
We do? Read between the lines (if you have to) - there are things with McNabb that people do not want to say publicly.

He just doesn't have what it takes nor does he work very hard to fill the gaps. The Eagles hid him for years and when the time came where they could get rid of him and save some face (Philly fans ALWAYS questioned them) they jumped all over it.

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 8:47 AM | Report abuse

To date, Shanahan's biggest mistake is not taking the 4th round pick the Titans had on the table for a guy we're not using anyway.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:39 AM

Snyder may have given him 21 million reasons not to pull the trigger on that one.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

casey matthews would be a good later rounds pick up to sit and learn and bulk up behind Fletcher!

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

MC51, the further we go into this new regime, the more it looks like BA is just a figure-head to pacify the fanbase

what are you basing this on brown??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:33 AM


Gut feeling, guesswork...whatever you wanna call it, I just don't see his fingerprints on this team (uniform tweaking, notwithstanding). Seems like Shanahan has all the juice and makes all the final calls. What I've seen of BA is more PR related stuff...uniforms, bringing back the old guys, etc. I mean, maybe you could make a case that Galloway was a guy he pushed to get here but who wants to own up to that?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

To me, Fletch, Hall, and probably Davis are the only ones that are nearly certain to come back.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2010 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Please release or trade Portis, Haynesworth and McNabb

Posted by: skinsfanfrmbirth | December 22, 2010 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I'd trade Cooley long before I'd trade Davis.

Trade Cooley? Davis?

To what end?

If you look around the league and at what's coming out of college programs you'll notice something that cuts into the silly idea of trading either player:

Football is awash with athletic pass catching tight ends.

We have two, one is miscast as a blocker for reasons unknown to this observer--or anyone else, for that matter.

Keep Davis, keep Cooley, use Logan Paulsen more.

Too, moving the very valuable Chris Cooley means the pick you get for him has to be used to replace him: that's a sideways move, isn't it?

So why do it?


Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

teams generally won't trade for a player they know will be cut. Exception to this rule: Snyder, see Erasmus James (7th rd pick); Mark Brunell (3rd pick)

Posted by: MalcolmYoung | December 22, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Please release or trade Portis, Haynesworth and McNabb

Posted by: skinsfanfrmbirth | December 22, 2010 8:55 AM

Dude, I think your Christmas wish will be granted, in full.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 22, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

A 2-3 year deal with a serious guaranteed money is justified.

Business wise, Moss knows the redskins need him more than he needs them.

If he decided to forgo re-signing with the redskins to join another team, it would totally re-direct the front office's draft priorities.
The irony of his time as a redskin is that while Portis has been the off and on again face of the offense, Moss has been more consistent, steady, and productive.

And he's been a better locker room citizen.

Re-sign Moss asap, it's a no-brainer.

That is, if you have brains.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse
------------------------

I dunno what your definition of '2-3 with serious guaranteed money' is, but Moss is 31, and while still productive, we cannot project him to remain that way into his mid 30's.

Anything more than about $3 mil/year and $5 mil guaranteed is the type of gamble on fan favorite vets which have blown up in our faces in the past. For reference, Boldin is getting 4 years, $28 mil, $10 mil guaranteed.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

trading FD, lets be realistic, what's the most you could expect in a return?? and only sane/reasonable people please respond...a 5th?? Ok, so lets say they do that, you now have cooley and ? because Paulson is an unknown...so now what happens is you have to spend a draft pick on a TE...yeah, they have so many picks that they want to be doing this....instead of trading FD, lets actually USE him in the passing game...the TE spot is a position of strength and some depth on this team..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:25 AM

Trading Davis is a move that I have started to think is going to happen. Why? Because he's basically a duplication in skill set of Cooley, but Cooley is the better player. Davis isn't that much faster than Cooley. He doesn't run better routes than Cooley. He is not a better blocker than Cooley. They are about the same in run after catch ability. The one thing I keep looking to see from Davis is him causing a matchup problem for the defense. I haven't seen it, unless it's by the design of the play. The team could get by with trading Davis for a year if they get better production out of the WR group in 2012.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

I would have loved to see us use our 2 pretty good pass catching te's like the pats do but it prolly doesn't fit into kyle's scheme

Posted by: warriorking111285 | December 22, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

teams generally won't trade for a player they know will be cut. Exception to this rule: Snyder, see Erasmus James (7th rd pick); Mark Brunell (3rd pick)

Posted by: MalcolmYoung | December 22, 2010 8:56 AM |

I think you meant to say see Vinny on Erasmus James and see Joe Gibbs on Mark Brunell. I positive Snyder had never heard of James, and Gibbs wanted Brunell.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2010 9:02 AM | Report abuse

The skins can get a 4th or 5th for Mcnabb. That was what we were scheduled to lose this year was a 4th. Trade Albert for a 4th or 5th or Package him with Davis for a 3rd or an insane 2nd. Then we can stand pat in the first round at where we might finish in terns of the draft. We are going to finish between 8th and 15th. That will allow us to get Ryan Mallet unless he tears up the combine or pro day. Andrew Luck will be gone. We have to find talent in those 3, 4, and 5 rounds and give these youngsters time on the field (hopefully O-line and D-line, or LB's). Can they play is all that matters not size sometimes. Look at the iddy biddy committy that New England is using. by the way hire some of their College scouts and overpay them. Stop overpaying the players and start overpaying the scouts to find the talent. Then nobody would mind or care how much we spend next year.

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

There will be 25 new faces in Washington next season, 7 picks and over 400 UFA's with less than 6 years in the league.

Get a pick for McNabb, maybe you luck out and get something for Haynesworth.

Posted by: JSchon | December 22, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Too, moving the very valuable Chris Cooley means the pick you get for him has to be used to replace him: that's a sideways move, isn't it?

So why do it?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Not necessarily. Paulson has made strides as a pass catcher, and he's obviously a better blocker than 'Sleepy Fred'. Paulson could be the blocker/catcher that Cooley was, probably not as good, and Davis could be the vertical threat. Why get another highly drafted TE when we obviously don't know how to use 2 good pass catching TE's at the same time anyway. We can get a veteran blocking TE in FA.

Posted by: monk811 | December 22, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to see Cooley score in the Superbowl for the Redskins.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 8:40 AM


The way things are going, I doubt Cooley lives long enough to see us in a SB, let alone play long enough to score in one.

And if Snyder is nixing trades, then the "nothing's changed" crowd is right. I hope to God that's not the case...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

ok twis, so then cooley goes down with an injury, and your starting TE is.......and your TE just became obsolete in this offense, and you have to spend a draft pick to replace Davis...

like moe said, at its BEST its a sideways move, however at its core, this is a step backwards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

mattsoundworld

...but Moss is 31, and while still productive, we cannot project him to remain that way into his mid 30's.

No disagreement, here.

But our business sense collides with the reality of the lack of depth at the wide receiver position:

S Moss

A Armstrong

R Williams

T Austin

M Kelly (IR'd--essentially an unknown, too)


You take Moss out of that group, and all you have is 2 young'ns, an underachiever, and a ham sammich.

Agreed, business-wise, signing a receiver to play into his 30s is a loopy idea.

But roster-wise, the redskins are kinda hamstrung, and must hold onto Moss until at least 2 additional pass catching targets are acquired.

Again: get a deal with Moss done asap.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:09 AM | Report abuse

trading FD, lets be realistic, what's the most you could expect in a return?? and only sane/reasonable people please respond...a 5th?? Ok, so lets say they do that, you now have cooley and ? because Paulson is an unknown...so now what happens is you have to spend a draft pick on a TE...yeah, they have so many picks that they want to be doing this....instead of trading FD, lets actually USE him in the passing game...the TE spot is a position of strength and some depth on this team..

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:25 AM
------------------------------------------
So, they get a third tight end as an undrafted free agent. That's not unheard of, is it? Paulsen is like a sixth offensive lineman. Shanahan won't ask him to do much more than block and run the occasional five yard out pattern. I'm not off Fred Davis, but the coaching staff has clearly demonstrated they don't know what to do with two pass catching tight ends. They might as well get something for Davis, since there's not a snow ball's chance in Paris Hilton's bedroom that he'll supplant Cooley.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I just looked at the offensive stats for the year. Did you all know that the Skins have the second fewest rushing attempts in the league, only ahead of the Cardinals. Their rushing average of 4.3 yds/attempt is in the middle tied with Pats, Jets, Bills. On the other hand, the Skins have the fifth most passing attempts with passing yd/attempt (7.2) being in the middle of the pack as well.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Seriously Greg...since when is it chiseled in stone that you HAVE to burn a pick to replace a BACKUP TE? I mean, really dude...stop looking at his combine numbers and whatever you WANT him to be and deal with what Davis is: a backup TE on a losing team.

That said, I'm only for trading him if we can fill one of the gaps we have in the 3rd or 4th round...anything less than that is a step backward as you say. I just don't get why you have this kid as a sacred cow when he's so obviously just Cooley's Bizarro...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:14 AM | Report abuse

I don't think you trade any of our TE's right now. TE's don't bring much in draft picks anyway. At best for Cooley you get a 3rd round pick. Davis is worth maybe a 5-6.

Here is what I do:

• RB Clinton Portis: -$5,645,500- Cut
• LB London Fletcher: -$4,900,000- Trade block or Keep
• QB Donovan McNabb: -$4,750,000- Trade block or cut
• CB DeAngelo Hall: -$4,400,000- Trade block or Keep, but go HARD on the trade block, some dumb team may over pay for this loser.
• DT Albert Haynesworth: -$3,400,000- Trade block or cut
• C Casey Rabach: -$3,000,000- Cut
• NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu: -$2,500,000- Cut
• OG Derrick Dockery: -$1,565,000- Trade block or Keep (but they will cut him.)
• DE Adam Carriker: -$1,420,000- keep
• OG Artis Hicks: -$1,400,000- keep
• DE Phillip Daniels: -$1,250,000- Going to retire.
• DE Vonnie Holliday: -$1,250,000- Probably Cut
• TE Fred Davis: -$555,000- keep
• DE Andre Carter: $2,909,998- - Trade block or Keep

So I am losing 5, worth $13.5 million and potentially up for trading 6 more that would be for about $20 million.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 22, 2010 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Get a pick for McNabb, maybe you luck out and get something for Haynesworth.

Posted by: JSchon | December 22, 2010 9:06 AM | Report abuse
-------------------

FatBerts contract is far more movable than McNabbs. If the contract option is triggered, McNabb will be making $14 mil, whereas FatBert will be clocking in near his base salary of $3.4 mil.

We will either cut or retain McNabb, and my money is on retaining him unless their is a lockout.

In the offseason, Daddy will review the offense and make some pointed suggestions to his son to suit personnel, kinda like Gibbs did in year 2. Barring injury or lockout, McNabb will have a great season, and we will make the playoffs.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 22, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Portis thinks Shanahan benching McNabb has Redskins scared

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 22, 2010, 8:53 AM EST

Having previously played for Mike Shanahan in Denver, Clinton Portis may know the head coach better than anyone else on the team. And Portis says Shanahan’s decision to bench Donovan McNabb has cast a pall on the team.

“In the locker room, I think that [the McNabb benching] that would scare a lot of guys,” Portis said on 106.7 The Fan, via the Washington Post. “That Donovan McNabb, who is proven to do so much, and who has done so much in the NFL, gets benched. I think it becomes a thing in the locker room like, ‘Man, if they bench Donovan, anybody can be benched. Or am I next or what’s next?’ And I think guys start playing for safety.”

That’s probably music to Shanahan’s ears: He undoubtedly likes the idea of his players being scared that their jobs are on the line if they don’t perform up to his expectations.

But Portis doesn’t think it’s good for the team to have players scared.

“That’s really been a big part of the problem around here,” Portis said. “People start playing for safety. So it’s like, ‘I gotta play safe and sound, instead of going out on the limb and making plays.’ . . . If a guy scared in the locker room, he gonna always play scared.”

Posted by: swowra | December 22, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Trade Cooley? Davis?

To what end?

-----------------------------------------
I didn't say to trade either of them, just that IF I was looking to it'd be Cooley.

Cooley is one of the few, and maybe only, players on this team with any value. Plus, he deserves to play for a ring and he'll never see it here in he!!.

Could he bring two picks in the upper third of the draft? If so, I say do it. Time to wipe the slate clean and start over.

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

@warriorking111285

I will bet you money that we take Jake Locker when we pick. Mallett is not Shanahan's type of QB-he appears to like wiry,nimble,athletic QBs like Plummer and Cutler so Locker will be our next QB...and you all will love him.

Locker is a mix of a little Brett Favre combined with a little Jay Cutler plus two years ago he ran between a 4.29 and a 4.4.

He's very athletic but wild. He had a poor senior season, but two years ago if he had come out he would have been picked first. Plus Jay Cutler was coming from Vanderbilt and he didn't light it up his last year there.
There's no way Shanahan doesn't take this freak of nature and it won't even be controversial.

The only way we don't take Locker is if we take A.J. Green the Georgia WR. If you haven't seen him, think a bigger, faster, smoother OchoCinco. Green has him by 3 inches. Green is the rare tall receiver with smooth hips, so he turns easily, he's more a natural WR than Julio Jones, a Terrell Owens clone.

I would be happy with either.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Paulson has made strides as a pass catcher

he's got 2 catch's.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

ok twis, so then cooley goes down with an injury, and your starting TE is.......and your TE just became obsolete in this offense, and you have to spend a draft pick to replace Davis...

like moe said, at its BEST its a sideways move, however at its core, this is a step backwards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:08 AM

So in 2012 when Davis is a FA, then what? Do you think he'll give the team a home discount to continue to play behind Cooley? Do you trade Cooley who will be then 30 years old with a significant contract? Look at the Pats, Eagles etc. Ya don't hold onto just in case guys beyond the point where a fair value can be had. That being said, Shanny probably will hold onto Davis because Shanny has shown no acumen to maximize player value.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

MC51, the further we go into this new regime, the more it looks like BA is just a figure-head to pacify the fanbase

what are you basing this on brown??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 8:33 AM


Gut feeling, guesswork...whatever you wanna call it, I just don't see his fingerprints on this team (uniform tweaking, notwithstanding). Seems like Shanahan has all the juice and makes all the final calls. What I've seen of BA is more PR related stuff...uniforms, bringing back the old guys, etc. I mean, maybe you could make a case that Galloway was a guy he pushed to get here but who wants to own up to that?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 8:52 AM
------------------------------------------
Agree on the PR stuff and I think it is great that Allen has re-established that link to the past. They need more of it, getting the former players involved from game-to-game. I disagree, however, that PR is the only place where Allen has left his mark. The structure of the contracts is definitely different from what they had in Broncos-land and monumentally different than Vinny's modus operandi. Financial management and contract management have BA's fingerprints all over them.

Now, is Allen making decisions as far as personnel? I am thinking he is more of a "recommender" in that category. I am pretty sure Shanahan is making the ultimate decision as to who is on the roster. I wouldn't mind seeing BA take a firmer hand on this front as well. Player situations like the Lichtenstieger-Dockery situation make me think Shanahan makes these decisions with too much ego involved.

What's interesting is, that as the season has wore on, Kyle's voice is entering into the discussion. I think the Grossman-McNabb situation is on Kyle and if Beck gets a shot, I think that will be Kyle as well. This makes it very intriguing if the Redskins look to draft a quarterback.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

monk811

Why get another highly drafted TE when we obviously don't know how to use 2 good pass catching TE's at the same time anyway?


Excellent point: but there's another side to it.

You watch the Patriots use Hernandez-Gronkowski (2 tight ends)in combo, and think, "Why can't the redskins do the same with Cooley-Davis?"

It all goes back to the offensive line.

We can't get efficient tight end use as they have to help with pass blocking so much.

The Pats can get their tight ends working in route combos because they have a solid o-line, and T Brady makes decisions so quick and accurately, it doesn't matter if the pass blocking is stellar from tme to time.

A good offensive line and excellent decision-making quarterback forces defenses to think twice about blitzing, and thus, you can exploit the center of the field with tight ends/slot receivers.

That's why the Pats rule: they have both--Brady, solid o-line.

And we have neither.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I'm with Moe on Moss...the WR corps is bad enough with him, it would be an epic disaster without him. Get him under contract for 3 years and hope you can put a solid player next to him in the offseason.

On a side note, the media's Michael Vick crotch nuzzling is rapidly approaching Favre status. Not sure how much more of this I can take...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Why we getting a 4th for campbell in 2012? What idiot couldn't get a 4th or 5th for 2011?

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Guys that will be back from that list: Fletcher, Hall, Rabach, Carriker,Hicks, Davis.

They will probably bring back either Holliday or Daniels as the designated "veteran-player/coach-to-influence-the-lockerroom-and-tow-the-company-line-to-other-players-and-media."

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Why we getting a 4th for campbell in 2012? What idiot couldn't get a 4th or 5th for 2011?

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:23 AM |

Give me a break it was a f-cking miracle we got a pick at all for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

backup TE on a losing team

um, brown, you can say that about EVERY Player on this team...they're either starting, or a backup on a LOSING team...

So in 2012 - twis, when is Cooley's deal up, when it is, you let him walk and you slide FD into his spot...this team needs to start to get in the habit of letting OLDER players walk...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:26 AM | Report abuse

You watch the Patriots use Hernandez-Gronkowski (2 tight ends)in combo, and think, "Why can't the redskins do the same with Cooley-Davis?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:21 AM

Do you see the crisp routes Hernadez runs, his speed etc? It compliments the traditional TE Gronkowski. That's what I see different between what the Skins have. Cooley and Davis have similar skill sets.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:27 AM | Report abuse

On a side note, the media's Michael Vick crotch nuzzling is rapidly approaching Favre status. Not sure how much more of this I can take...

-----------------------------------------

I'm with ya. He's gone from just above Satan to just below God way too fast for me. Sure makes me wonder....anyone else smell a rat?

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

So in 2012 when Davis is a FA, then what?

If he doesn't have some kind of dominating Pro Bowl type seasons, you let him walk out the door and wave good-bye.

'Cuz without showing great production, he ain't going nowhere and can't demand top dollar.

From the league's perspective, Fred Davis is 'just a guy'.

Stop making a guy who not great, great.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

The only way we don't take Locker is if we take A.J. Green the Georgia WR. If you haven't seen him, think a bigger, faster, smoother OchoCinco. Green has him by 3 inches. Green is the rare tall receiver with smooth hips, so he turns easily, he's more a natural WR than Julio Jones, a Terrell Owens clone.

I would be happy with either.
===========================================

Also Alshon Jefferies from S.Carolina any of the three would make me happy. I believe Jefferies attacks the ball more than Green, but good picks either way.

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

@BeantownG

Good point. The Patriots, Steelers and the Eagles particularly have no sentimentality toward guys getting up there in years or young guys who are about to re-up on their deals.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

So in 2012 - twis, when is Cooley's deal up, when it is, you let him walk and you slide FD into his spot...this team needs to start to get in the habit of letting OLDER players walk...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:26 AM

The point is Davis, in all likelihood won't be here beyond the 2011 season. Why? Because some team will give him a shot at starting. My second point is that ageism makes no sense if said older player is still performing at a high level. Otherwise, teams like the Ravens would let Ray Lewis walk, or even the Skins and LBF.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Why we getting a 4th for campbell in 2012? What idiot couldn't get a 4th or 5th for 2011?

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:23 AM |

Give me a break it was a f-cking miracle we got a pick at all for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 22, 2010 9:26 AM

Freaking awesome...thought it was for an improbable 7th rounder or something when I first heard about it.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Paulson has made strides as a pass catcher

he's got 2 catch's.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:20 AM | Report abuse

It doesn't necessarily translate in numbers and stats. I was more talking about his route running and his progress since preseason, plus he has a touchdown, he could be a threat in the redzone.

Posted by: monk811 | December 22, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

twisi

That's what I see different between what the Skins have. Cooley and Davis have similar skill sets.


Agreed.

So, we'll put the crown on your head, King Solomon:

Who do you trade (seeing they are 'equal'):

a. Chris Cooley

b. Fred Davis

c. neither

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

BTW

Anyone see Matt Flynn v. the Pats?

Wouldn't mind inquiring about a trade for him. Nice arm strength. Pretty accurate. Did a good job running that offense.

Had his confused/befuddled moments that you'd expect from a guy making his first career start on the road against a team like the Pats, but I like what I saw.

We also wouldn't need to spend out 1st round pick on him.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

The structure of the contracts is definitely different from what they had in Broncos-land and monumentally different than Vinny's modus operandi. Financial management and contract management have BA's fingerprints all over them.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 22, 2010 9:20 AM


Great point...but bear in mind damn near everybody except the Vinny-led Redskins show financial restraint on a year-to-year basis.

Also remember there weren't many big FAs available in 2010. I'll wait to see what we do in the 2011 offseason before I start patting BA on the back for saving money...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

You watch the Patriots use Hernandez-Gronkowski (2 tight ends)in combo, and think, "Why can't the redskins do the same with Cooley-Davis?

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:21 AM


...because we don't have Tom Brady...

...that's why we can't do the same thing with Cooley-Davis.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand why Shanahan insists on publicly embarrassing McNabb. Why say you told him you can't guarantee he'll be back next year? 4-12 in 2009 and 5-9 thus far in 2010--shouldn't EVERY player fear not being around next year? And if you're trying to see if Grossman can play, why not bench Moss to see if Austin can play? Why not bench Fletcher to see if Riley can play? Why not bench Rogers to see if Barnes can play? What a joke. Of the list in the article, I can only see Hall, Fletcher, Carriker, Davis and McNabb coming back. McNabb only because given enough rope, Grossman will hang himself. I'd also like to see Fletcher gone. Before you start having a heart attack, let me explain. He's already 36 and by the time they're ready to contend he'll be retired so why not put a young guy in and let him gain experience? That's what they're going to do with the QB they draft.

Posted by: largetony86 | December 22, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

I would only trade Cooley if we get at least a 3rd rounder for him AND we are sure Davis can be 'the man' and take over, which I'm not sure on either. I say keep them both. Moe's right, if we get a better Oline and a QB that can make quicker decisions then we might be able to use both of them on the field at once.

Posted by: monk811 | December 22, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, Jefferies is a good prospect. Green is a lil' bit better though. Taking Jefferies with our high pick would be unwise, he can be had in the second round.

The main problem with Green is that he may not be around when we pick.

Side note: I can't believe I'm sitting here raving about a WR, much as I have despised the team using high picks on them, but this one's the truth. If he's there we must seriously consider taking him.

When I think of Green, I think of OchoCinco, James Lofton or Tony Martin and I don't do that often.

But Locker mannnnnnn, I know what I saw when he played two years ago....Special with a capital S. If he drops down to us, I'll be giddy and I'm from the old school of using a high pick on the best big man.

Special arm, Special legs, feisty and competitive. No kidding, all I think about with this kid is Brett Favre in Jay Cutler's body, he even has the same flinging, whipping release as Cutler.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

So in 2012 - twis, when is Cooley's deal up, when it is, you let him walk and you slide FD into his spot...this team needs to start to get in the habit of letting OLDER players walk...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 9:26 AM


Agree on your last point...but sliding FD into Cooley's spot only makes sense if he learns how to block more like an NFL TE and less like a matador.

And let's not act like it takes a lot to replace a TE...Cooley was a 3rd round pick. Gates was undrafted. If this FO is anywhere in the neighborhood of shrewd, they'll be able to get a solid TE without picking in the top 10 and taking a no-brainer like Tony Gonzalez.

pfunk, pass on Flynn...if we're gonna go with a young QB, might as well draft one and build him from the ground up. No more getting guys already used to another system...get our own guy, "raise" him up in the way he should go...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Also remember there weren't many big FAs available in 2010. I'll wait to see what we do in the 2011 offseason before I start patting BA on the back for saving money...

Posted by: brownwood26
===========================================
Agreed. that's all I keep hearing Shanahan say is the free agent class wasn't as deep this past year. Which leaves me to believe the guy is going shopping and it won't be for basement bargains next year. Let's wait and see if we show restraint. Now if he shops for 24-26 year old potential stardom studs in the mold of a Cameron Wake (Damn that guy is good) then I'll say we've changed.

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of Mike Vick...

Anyone think Vince Young will get the same wakeup call?

Might be worth a look-see.

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Flounder21

Give me a break it was a f-cking miracle we got a pick at all for him (Jason Campbell).

Have you seen Jason Campbell play as a raider?

He's not all that bad.

He played well against the jags.

The raiders aren't great--but he's made them better.

Oakland turned out to be a good fit for him, and in hindsight, the 4th round pick we got for him seems just about right.

He's a game manager, not a gunslinger.

McNabb's failure in D.C. will make folks think that perhaps Campbell, like Donnie, was a good quarterback in a place lacking linemen, good playcalling, and playmakers.

Which it was and is.

Redskin fans wanted Campbell to be what he wasn't not knowing the difference, such was and is the hunger to win.

Holding on to JC last year and building a line and playmakers made sense from our prespective as now we wind back at point one: finding a compentent starting quarterback.

Only know, we could really use that 2nd and 4th rounder spent to get McNabb.

I mean, if holding on to Campbell would've dumb, just how smart was the move to trade him away so you can replace him with a used to be good veteran you wind up releasing anyways?

Switching out Campbell for McNabb was a sideways move.

Only now, the raider have a quarterback.

And we have to move again.



Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:49 AM | Report abuse

BTW

Anyone see Matt Flynn v. the Pats?

Wouldn't mind inquiring about a trade for him. Nice arm strength. Pretty accurate. Did a good job running that offense.

Had his confused/befuddled moments that you'd expect from a guy making his first career start on the road against a team like the Pats, but I like what I saw.

We also wouldn't need to spend out 1st round pick on him.

Posted by: p1funk
~~~~
Some teams have a gift for picking players a certain positions. The Packers appear to have that gift at QB. However, because Rodgers has the concussion issue, I don't have the Packers trading him next year.

Plus, Shanahan likes guys who are athletic and able to run bootlegs.

And after one bad trade for a QB, I think he would kill himself before doing that two years in a row. The best way to avoid needless scrutiny for him would be to get a young'un.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:50 AM | Report abuse

all I think about with this kid is Brett Favre in Jay Cutler's body

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:43 AM


You'll excuse me if I'm not only disgusted by that prospect, but willing to actually stab a QB in his throwing arm to prevent such an abomination from ever suiting up in an NFL uniform...

If you wanna sell me on Locker, you gotta do MUCH better than that...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

pfunk, pass on Flynn...if we're gonna go with a young QB, might as well draft one and build him from the ground up. No more getting guys already used to another system...get our own guy, "raise" him up in the way he should go...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse


Whoever we draft is going to be someone used to another system as well.

At 25, Flynn still has prime years in front of him (unlike Beck who is 35 and in his 3rd year).

I recall the Texans traded for Matt Schaub after his 3rd year in Atlanta, and Genius Jr. seemed to do fine teaching him The System.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

p1funk

Anyone see Matt Flynn v. the Pats?

I'm with you there, bro', M Flynn looked very, very good.

Trade for him?: yeah, I would.

But that won't happen.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Agreed.

So, we'll put the crown on your head, King Solomon:

Who do you trade (seeing they are 'equal'):

a. Chris Cooley

b. Fred Davis

c. neither

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:33 AM

I'm giving more credence to trading Davis this offseason. I'm with BW26, if the team can get a 3rd or 4th, I would give strong consideration to more Davis. The only caveat is that the team would need another pass catcher (perhaps at WR) on the team, Here's the thing, the Skins have run a bunch of three TE sets the last three weeks, and Davis has been a virtual no show in thee passing game. Heck, Cooley has been nonexistent for long stretches so maybe the offense does better with 3 WR instead of 2 TE.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Anyone think Vince Young will get the same wakeup call?

-----------------------------------------
...or the NFL will see that his career gets resurrected too?

Posted by: kone | December 22, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Then you need to watch him. The last time I checked Favre and Cutler were pretty good.

But, you'll see once the Shanahan picks him.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Anyone think Vince Young will get the same wakeup call?

Might be worth a look-see.
===========================================
He thinks he is still at the U of Texas. He believes he is so much better than everyone else. I believe he has great talent and deserves a shot, but are we the ones to take a gamble?? Not with our track record!

Posted by: Hackersk | December 22, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

If you wanna sell me on Locker

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 9:51 AM

Locker at the end of the 1st or early second would be an interesting move. He's got a ways to go, but he is the type of qb Shanny likes.

Posted by: TWISI | December 22, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 9:49 AM

Bravo, Moe. 100% agree.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else think salary cap talk is a bit premature considering there is no CBA agreement? No one knows a) if there will be football and b) what the particulars will be in terms of salary cap/structure etc.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Remember also, Shanahan had Cutler going pretty good before getting fired in Denver, in fact, it was the play of Cutler that gave the Broncos so much hope that it was suprising that Shanahan was fired.

Sure, he had a rotten game against us, but one game does not a QB make.

Oh, and Lovie Smith can't coach, he's the moron who has to be prodded to use Devin Hester as the league's best return man instead of a mediocre receiver.

So I'm giving Cutler a pass with the Bears. Shanahan was developing him just fine.

Locker has that sort of athletic arrogance and is an even better prospect than Cutler coming out. If he could've had a better year-he would be the second pick in the draft hands down. As it is, he's going to be a top pick anyways.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

If a criticism/observation of McNabb is that he's taking a whole year to pick up the offense-there's no way in this galaxy the Shanahans are going to even sniff Vince Young.

At this point, I just don't have them trading for anymore QBs, it would invite too much scrutiny and conversation.

It would be the same as signing another prominent free-agent defensive tackle to big contract....it just...no, they are not going to do that, it wouldn't matter if it was Julius Peppers or young Bruce Smith, that's a no.

Posted by: ArmchairGM | December 22, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

if there will be football

painful to think about if there isn't cl...although the letdown of another lost season might lessen that pain....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 10:08 AM | Report abuse

Whoever we draft is going to be someone used to another system as well.

At 25, Flynn still has prime years in front of him (unlike Beck who is 35 and in his 3rd year).

I recall the Texans traded for Matt Schaub after his 3rd year in Atlanta, and Genius Jr. seemed to do fine teaching him The System.

Posted by: p1funk | December 22, 2010 9:52 AM


True...and heaven knows I'd rather burn a 5th rounder on Flynn than tie up another high pick in a QB. Just sayin' I doubt it's gonna be that easy...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

If you think going 2-3, 8-8, and 7-9 are developing just fine than you can have it.

Posted by: bangkokben | December 22, 2010 10:11 AM | Report abuse

if there will be football

painful to think about if there isn't cl...although the letdown of another lost season might lessen that pain....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 10:08 AM

Given the Redskins incredicble track record in shortened/strike seasons...I'm in favor of losing a few games in 2011.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 10:15 AM | Report abuse


"What is absolutely certain is that if McNabb is listed as the team's third quarterback for the final two games of the season, he will lose $31,250 for each of those games, because his contract contains a per-game roster bonus provision that is contingent upon him being on the 45-man active roster." -WAPO RI

Waive that proviso NOW. If Snyder/Shanahan nickle and dimes McNabb on this, they'll chase off plenty of potential FAs--the ones they haven't chased off already by amateur hour at Redskin Park.

Posted by: TheCork | December 22, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Shanny has his eye on Cam Newton.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 22, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

On a side note, the media's Michael Vick crotch nuzzling is rapidly approaching Favre status. Not sure how much more of this I can take...

Posted by: brownwood26

Really? We've all had to endure 20 years of Favre, and about 17 of that has been a continuous media circle jerk.


Funny. I didn't read anything from you ripping the media when they made it their business to constantly go after Vick in the wake of the whole dog-fighting drama. If anything you were up here like everyone else (LOOKING AT YOU MISTAMOE) banging the 'Vick is done' bass drum.


This is how its done with the media. The media breaks you down and will criticize to no end when you make an epic gaffe. If they like your comeback story, then you're beloved. See: Favre, Brett re: Pain Killers

I say I have at least until 2017 until I can start comparing Vick and the Media vs. Favre and the Media.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 22, 2010 10:19 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins need to Trade Davis (although they should have done it last year when his value was at it's peak). I actually like Davis and think he is a better blocker than Cooley (there is a reason why he stays into block more than Cooley) and is younger and faster. But Davis is a FA after next year and I the Redskins aren't going to pay big money for two tight ends. Given the natural increase in free agency Davis will end up costing more money than Cooley at that point so the money will be a wash. Trade Davis now when you can still get a 3rd round pick for him.

As for the rest: I think McNabb and Haynesworth will have value probably in the 3rd-4th round range. I know Carter has the NTC but i'm sure he will waive it to go back to a 4-3 team that will use him effectively. He has some value since the Skins just picked up an option bonus on him and will be taking the cap hit making him cheaper for other teams. I'm guessing a 4th-5th rounder.

Dockery might have limited trade value, but between the benching and injury it will be limited. One idea might be swapping him for another play some other team doesn't want. I would look at NT Shaun Rogers from the Browns. Throw in a 6th round pick and/or maybe another player Carriker, Holliday etc. And it could work. They have a hole at guard, would save some money (though a not as much if a 2nd player is involved).

Posted by: Steveo11 | December 22, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

People keep over estimating the value of the 2008 draft picks.

Devin Thomas had his supporters at WR until he was finally released.

Ditto for Chad Rinehart and Justin Tryon, who are now gone.

Kelly and Davis are the holdovers here with Moore a late round pick.

Moore has floundered at free safety while Kelly was put on IR just ahead of when he might have been released if he had not come up limping on the knee.

Davis is one dimensional.

He likes to catch passes. He doesn't like to block and despite being 6'3 and 255 doesn't really project a physical presence on the field.

Davis may have some upside but he's no lock to be a pro bowler as some maintain here.

Again, I think some of you are overvaluing players on the roster, just as management has done in the past.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | December 22, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

• RB Clinton Portis: -$5,645,500
• LB London Fletcher: -$4,900,000
• QB Donovan McNabb: -$4,750,000
• CB DeAngelo Hall: -$4,400,000
• DT Albert Haynesworth: -$3,400,000
• C Casey Rabach: -$3,000,000
• NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu: -$2,500,000
• OG Derrick Dockery: -$1,565,000
• DE Adam Carriker: -$1,420,000
• OG Artis Hicks: -$1,400,000
• DE Phillip Daniels: -$1,250,000
• DE Vonnie Holliday: -$1,250,000
• TE Fred Davis: -$555,000
• DE Andre Carter: $2,909,998


I was gonna list the players the 'skins could cut without any great loss to the team. Then realized it would be easier to list those they should keep.

Here, then, the entire list:

London Fletcher

Posted by: TheCork | December 22, 2010 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else think salary cap talk is a bit premature considering there is no CBA agreement? No one knows a) if there will be football and b) what the particulars will be in terms of salary cap/structure etc.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 22, 2010 10:01 AM


Exactly...that's why I've spent most of the early part of the season poo-pooing the "franchise and trade McNabb" crowd. There's no guarantee there's even going to be a franchise tag to use. Best a team could do at this point is just be fiscally responsible and not go apesh*t on big salary contracts...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

the only drawback with Vick getting the MVP to me is it means that Brady wont get it, that will then trigger delusional (all) pats fans to think there is some league wide conspiracy against them...see spygate, and their claims that Goodell took away that pick so they wouldn't get better....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 22, 2010 10:26 AM | Report abuse

redDMV

If anything you were up here like everyone else (LOOKING AT YOU MISTAMOE) banging the 'Vick is done' bass drum.

Regular bloggas are aware that we've already pointed out that we were wrong to say that Mike Vick is done.

I've been wrong about a lot of things, and I will stand up every stinkin' day to point out when I am.

Thanks for pointing out that I was wrong.

Now, use your time wisely, and highlight when I'm right.

That is, if you have enough time.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 22, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I only think Fletcher and Hall should be back from that list. The entire D-line plays like blocking dummies. Get rid of all of them. Portis can sit on IR someplace else. McNabb isn't a good fit. Any part of the starting O-line in the past 3 years needs to removed from team ASAP.

Meangelo can cover and Fletcher is just plain great.

Posted by: alocowboy | December 22, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

I only think Fletcher and Hall should be back from that list. The entire D-line plays like blocking dummies. Get rid of all of them. Portis can sit on IR someplace else. McNabb isn't a good fit. Any part of the starting O-line in the past 3 years needs to removed from team ASAP.

Meangelo can cover and Fletcher is just plain great.

Posted by: alocowboy | December 22, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Who are the skins playing this week?

Posted by: PlayAction | December 22, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Not sure why peeps think AH has not trade value. Why would a team that wants AH wait for him to be cut then have to go into a bidding war for his services when the remaining part of his contract is favorable?

Still think a 4th is in play for AH.

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 22, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Ah yes...count on Red to be the blog's Johnny Cochran when it comes to saying anything even remotely critical of a black athlete. You could set your watch to this cat...

First of all, I've never been a Vick fan...not because of the dogfighting, but because I thought he was vastly overrated when he was in Atlanta. As horrific as his crimes were, I thought he was villified far beyond guys like Donte Stallworth and Leonard Little who've actually killed PEOPLE. So spare me cross examination on that.

Secondly, the media in general blows EVERYTHING out of proportion, good or bad. I've always been critical of the media, but in today's 24/7 news cycle it is what it is. All I'm doing is venting over being sick of him and Favre being the go-to topic for every NFL show ever. There's 30 other teams, many of which are far more relevant than the Vikings' massive disaster or the Eagles' lucky win against a team that's notorious for collapsing in December.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 22, 2010 10:41 AM | Report abuse


I don't pay attention to yours or anyone's "hits", Moe. I like to remind those who were so sure in their assessments (especially the ones who argued me tooth and nail on it) only to have it blow up in their faces like 'friendly fire' while jerking off. Becuase that's what many of you do when you're guesses become reality. You self-pleasure and give the whole blog some sort of streaming exposé on it.

It's so much more fun to rub it in your face when you're wrong after thinking you're were certain that you were right.


Can't have the backslapping and grab-assin' when you get it right, then get touchy when you're called out on what you got wrong. Double edged sword, two-way street, and what have you....

Posted by: RedDMV | December 22, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

LF59 brings it every week, keep him obviously, gotta keep d-i-cant-tackle-for-sheet-hall b/c he makes some plays. everyone else can get cut for all i care, though carter has played well for the Skins and he seems like a good guy, but we arent using his talents

rabach and kemoeatu made a combined $5.5 mill? hahaha there in lies the problem right there w/ the Skins and the economy in general, that is more than pathetic, but good for them they suck and they r multi-millionaires

Posted by: retroskins14 | December 22, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

This is how its done with the media. The media breaks you down and will criticize to no end when you make an epic gaffe. If they like your comeback story, then you're beloved. See: Favre, Brett re: Pain Killers

I say I have at least until 2017 until I can start comparing Vick and the Media vs. Favre and the Media.

Posted by: RedDMV |

Not that I disagree entirely--I wrote a book of media criticism- but acting like "The Media" is one giant thinkalike entity is like saying, I dunno, blacks or Arabs or Liberals are a single thinkalike entity. And by your all-encompassing definition, you're Media too.

But then, why is so much of the "Media" exactly as you describe? Two primary reasons. it's what the public demands and it's what the owners of Media outlets and providers demand in the interests of profit. It's just a reflection of Society and Capitalism in too many instances.

But the good members of the Media you wrongly include in your sweeping generalization are manning the thin line between what'sleft of Democracy and a Corporate dictatorship.

Does my Azz look too profound in these pants?

.

Posted by: TheCork | December 22, 2010 10:58 AM | Report abuse


Can't have the backslapping and grab-assin' when you get it right, then get touchy when you're called out on what you got wrong. Double edged sword, two-way street, and what have you....

Posted by: RedDMV | December 22, 2010 10:51 AM |
------------

hey brown, I hear you boycotted the redskins last sunday. what gives big boy ? shanahan didn't start your favorite QB ?

ho-ho-ho

Posted by: hessone | December 22, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse


beeps

Posted by: hessone | December 22, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

"I could see us packaging sleepy davis, mcCHUMP, And fat al as part of a deal with the panthers to move up to number 1 to grab the best QB ANDREW LUCK! "

````````````````````````````

What a dreamer , might as well throw in the Brooklyn Bridge on that deal too ... Unfortunately there's not actually anyone dumb enough to bit on such a trade (unless maybe it was the 'Skins , but trading with yourself probably isn't allowed otherwise we'd have done it by now) .........

Posted by: RoidRage | December 22, 2010 11:34 AM | Report abuse

First, I am sick and tired of having to think about the draft every December, but "the less we deserve good fortune, the more we hope for it" Moliere. We should not assume we will get one of the top 4 QB's in this years draft, without moving up (God forbid, pls. hold on to future pics). Even with 5 wins, right now there are 11 teams with worse or equal records. Of those 11, I see 7 of those possibly drafting a QB; Panthers, Broncos, Bengals, Bills, Cards, Browns, Vikings & 49ers. But the good news is we could draft a need in the first and get a good developmental guy in the second; like Foles (Arizona), Enderle (Idaho), Stanzi (Iowa), Ponder (FSU), Devlin (Delaware). I don't see picking up someone in the late rounds being a viable option. Guys like Brady only come around a few times a decade.

Posted by: Skin4Life1 | December 22, 2010 11:36 AM | Report abuse

So the Skins maneuver and get any "new hotness" QBs [insert name of your favorite horse in the QB draft race here] in the 2011 draft.

Without addressing the O-line, he gets battered and becomes Patrick Ramsey II.

What's the point?

The Skins have Trent Williams (LT), Kory Lichtensteiger (servicable LG), and either Will Montgomery or Stephon Heyer (as RG).

By drafting a solid Center, they would have a young O-line core for 3-4 years to come and could then focus on adding BACKUP depth each year (to raise their eventual successors at each position), instead of having to do the off-season free-agent O-line "spackling job" they've done almost EVERY year since 1999.

Then you can see what Cook and Selvish Capers offer as potential depth or starters in camp...if they don't pan out pick up a free-agent RT. RTs are MUCH easier to come by than the other positions, anyway.

A paramount team need is a true NT.

Acquiring a TRUE NT will enable even the existing parts of this defense to get markedly better. Tying up the center of the field is CRITICAL to making a 3-4 function well and consistantly.

Without this cornerstone piece, the switch to a 3-4 will not succeed with the personnel the Redskins have left, or players who they are likely to get in short order. Period.

Make H. Ngata the ONLY BIG TICKET off-season F/A target.

Set in stone what the max you're willing to pay (that will not disrupt the salary cap plan you've established or the locker room harmony you are building) is.

The Key: Don't backslide to "stinky thinking" and just try to outbid the next guy.

If you can't land him there are 2-3 potential NTs in this draft. Be sure to get one of them somewhere in the first two rounds.

Then you can fill in the "Skill" positions in later rounds and in post-draft free-agency.

To have a sturdy house you need a good foundation. Gotta build that first.

Posted by: ThinkingMan | December 22, 2010 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Fred Davis has stone hands, so I have no problem trading him.

Posted by: baskert | December 22, 2010 1:48 PM | Report abuse

RB Clinton Portis: -$5,645,500- Gone
• LB London Fletcher: -$4,900,000- Keep
• QB Donovan McNabb: -$4,750,000- keep
• CB DeAngelo Hall: -$4,400,000- keep
• DT Albert Haynesworth: -$3,400,000-gone
• C Casey Rabach: -$3,000,000-gone
• NT Ma'ake Kemoeatu: -$2,500,000-gone
• OG Derrick Dockery: -$1,565,000-gone
• DE Adam Carriker: -$1,420,000-keep
• OG Artis Hicks: -$1,400,000-gone
• DE Phillip Daniels: -$1,250,000-gone
• DE Vonnie Holliday: -$1,250,000-gone
• TE Fred Davis: -$555,000-maybe
• DE Andre Carter: $2,909,998-gone

We have to do one of three things with our TE position if we want to use it to help rebuild this franchise in weaker areas.

1) Trade Cooley - depends on compensation
2) Trade Davis - depends on Compensation
3) keep them both. Depends on Kyle and Mike growing a brain and realizing they are our 1st and 3rd best receiving options on this team and somehow, someway we need to use them both. They can both be split out wide as WRs, we've seen that in the past. They both need to play and be more of a focal point of this offense. If it were up to me, I keep them both because I don't feel we are going to get second round picks in return, but I use them.

There is no reason that Fred Shouldn't be our 3rd WR this entire year. There is no reason that either of them should have zero catches in a half, let alone a quarter. I blame the Shanahans for not adapting and using their best weapons correctly and it has hurt this team.

Same can be said for the way they used Dononvan. If we called plays that he wanted to use, we'd be more successful. We did that with Grossman, we did what he was comfortable with, yet we couldn't do that Donovan??

Mike and Kyle quit putting your personal hatred infront of the teams success.

Posted by: avbanig | December 22, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Cooley should garner more picks than Davis since he is a proven commidity.Then the Reskins extend the younger Davis who could develop into a legit Pro Bowl caliber player if given the number reps that Cooley gets as the #1 TE.

Posted by: pcbluehose43 | December 22, 2010 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Cut them all except Davis and start fresh. Trade who you can but, we are the only team that trades for players we know you will cut.

Posted by: jtrob_1 | December 22, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Don't get me wrong....I love COOLEY.

But if this team is to really get young....than trading him has to be an option on the table.

Davis has a similar skill set and is younger....he needs to get playing time.

Continue the youth movement....this team cannot be afraid of the pain that rebuilding incurs.

If it means benching and releasing/trading McNabb and putting in grossman as a placeholder for our future QB....so be it.

Posted by: GoonieGooGoo | December 23, 2010 1:57 PM | Report abuse

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