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The Running Back Game

Let's play a little guessing game.

Here are the stats for one very prominent, outspoken running back, and another guy who is more of a journeyman, toiling for four teams and rarely making headlines.

Both are workhorses. Both have identical 4.1 yard-per-carry averages over this five-year span (precisely the league average). Neither is the most productive player at this position overall in the league in the past five years, but let's take a look at the numbers.

Mystery Running Back 1
2008 - 263 carries for 1,222 yards - 13 TDs
2007 - 310 - 1,119 - 1 TD
2006 - 296 - 1,210 - 6 TDs
2005 - 314 - 1,335 - 9 TDs
2004 - 240 - 948 - 7 TDs
Totals: 1,423 rushes for 5,834 yards and 36 TDs
MRB1 has had three carries of 40 yards or more in this span, and 26 of 20 yards or more.

Mystery Running Back 2
2008 - 291 - 1,337 - 7 TDs
2007 - 325 - 1,262 - 11 TDs
2006 - 127 - 523 - 7 TDs
2005 - 352 - 1,516 - 11 TDs
2004 - 343 - 1,315 - 5 TDs
Totals: 1,438 rushes for 5,953 yards and 41 TDs
MRB2 has had three carries of 40 yards or more in this span, and 30 of 20 yards or more.

One guy, when he wanted a new contract and tried to engineer his departure from a team, ended up getting what was the biggest contract ever for a running back, an eight-year, $50.5-million deal ($17 million guaranteed) that has since been reworked three times. In order to obtain this running back, his employer traded the man considered to be the best cover corner in the NFL at the time as well as a second-round pick.

The other running back has never come close to that kind of guaranteed deal, And when he was traded, his team dealt him and a draft pick in order to move up 26 places in the second round. He keeps his mouth shut and causes no distractions.

So by now you've probably guessed the identity of MRB2. We can add this moniker to those he already has, like Dolla Bill and Coach Janky Spanky. It's Clinton "Being Clinton" Portis. But what about MRB1? He must be a star of equal caliber, right?

Take five guesses. Go ahead.

Want a few more hints?

He played college football right in the Skins' backyard (at the University of Virginia), and has played in a Super Bowl, too.

Still not enough?

His brother plays in the league, and used to start for the Cowboys.

Now you've got it. It's Thomas Jones, late of the Cards, Bucs and Bears and now of the Jets, and brother of Julius.

You rarely hear him mentioned in conversations about the best backs in the NFL. There is no hype; he isn't hanging out with his owner in Vegas or throwing teammates or coaches under the bus on a radio show. He just runs the ball, is tremendously cheaper in terms of dollars and assets required to land him, and has played behind some offensive lines that have not been nearly as highly paid as Washington's the past five years.

Sure, he's a couple years older than Portis, but these numbers don't lie. One guy is treated like he is the star among stars, and the other is just a football player producing virtually identical results without the sideshows.

On March 1, 2004, the Redskins completed the Portis trade, and gave him the new contract. Over his five years here he has pulled in $32.7 million in guaranteed money alone, not including base salaries.

On March 4, 2004, Jones signed with the Chicago Bears for a $3.5 million signing bonus and he earned a total of $8.25 million over three years there, including a Super Bowl appearance. He received a $6 million signing bonus with the Jets in 2007 in a deal that will essentially pay him a max of $13 million between 2007-2009.

So from 2004-2008 Portis pockets about $35.3 million, while Jones earns about $21.2. A $7 million per season back vs. a $4 million back. The key here isn't the money; it's te fact that the extra $14 million buys you a few more players.

Jones (Chicago 2004-2006, Jets 2007-present) has played for teams that have a combined 42-36 record the past five years. Portis's Redskins are 37-41. Just food for thought about the ways in which organizations assess talent and allocate resources.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 18, 2008; 8:45 AM ET
 
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Next: Step Right Up and Vote for the Top Coach

Comments

Money!

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

"But Portis iz da beeessttttt"


Skins homers need to realize Portis is good but he 1) Ain't worth nearly what we pay him (hell, I don't think any RB's are) and 2) Has already started declining.


I could probably run down Portis. Zero breakaway speed now.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

JLC,

You just want to be crucified on here don't you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

You mean Captain Hanky Stanky isn't the best rb in the league? Just ask him and he'll tell you.

Betts would have just as many yards given the same amount of carries. Portis is the perfect summary of this entire organization.

Posted by: yellow_jacket98 | December 18, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

I will agree that no RB is worth as much as CP makes, and he has lost his breakaway speed.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, CP is good, but he's not worth nearly as much as his cap number accounts for. If the Skins could stop trading draft picks away like the don't matter, they could be paying less for one position. I dont think they should get rid of CP, but this also makes me think of all the cap space they have tied up at WR. And look at the lack of production from the passing game...

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

(sigh)....just don't have it in me to wail and gnash my teeth today....it is what it is....portis plays for the Redskins and Jones plays for the Jets...that will not change....nor will the 2008 Draft...nor will the signing of Jon Jansen....nor will the trade for JTaylor.....unless one of you has a time machine, then nothing, absolutely nothing, will undue what has already been done....the WCO will never work in the NFC East...the team will never win with Dan Snyder...what else?? Did I miss anything??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

JLC,

You just want to be crucified on here don't you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse


I think it's very valid. Those extra players could very well be 2 productive O-lineman and a stud D-Tackle.

Those two things combined do two things. Allow your office to stay on the field, and stop the run on D.

Championships are won that way.

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

It's kind of tough to argue with the stats, especially considering Thomas Jones really hasn't had help on the offensive side of the ball throughout those years (similar to Portis).

Although this probably speaks more to what a great value Jones is rather than what a poor value Portis is.

Posted by: psps23 | December 18, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Okay people


good presents for a 6 year old boy?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Yup, and we could've had Merriman instead of Rogers, should've built a dynasty out of the Ricky Williams trade and should've kept Brad Johnson over Jeff George. Anything else obvious you want to point out?

If you really want to do a RB comparison, why don't you compare the stats for Jamal Lewis and Willis McGahee. Your precious Ravens REALLY screwed the pooch on that trade...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 18, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Although this probably speaks more to what a great value Jones is rather than what a poor value Portis is.

Posted by: psps23 | December 18, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Possibly, but our record of late is to overpay for the wrong people.

History has to teach you something at some point?

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Here's another guessing game. One guy is 5 foot 5, a billionaire, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about any media member or fan for that matter. The other guy is 5 foot 2, has little man's syndrome, loves soccer and ipods, and thinks EVERYONE should talk to him and if they don't he will constantly bash them. Can you name them?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 18, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Hindsight is 20/20... I just hope Snyderatto learns from the latest give away of the 2nd 2009 and 6th in 2010 draft picks given up for a guy who has what 2 sacks in the 10 or so games he's played in this season. Who may very well not be here next year with his sky high salary. Let me think, whats more valuable to a franchise??? The latter or the possibilty of a 2nd round draft pick that could contribute next season to an aging team plus the possibility of a back-up type player in 2010, who knows they may find another gem like Horton. I thought they had changed their ways... maybe they are slowly. You would think (in hindsight) that after Daniels went down the 1st day of training camp, they would just suck it up and lean on D Evans, C Wilson and the rookie R Jackson to fill the void, possibly signing a vet FA to help with a rotation for the season...

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Truth, whats he into, sports, if so, which one/ones? What gaming systems does he have if any?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

WTF! You are like damn woman that doesn't attention from a guy then tries to crush him with words. So CP doesn't talk with you so you got to go out your way to bash a guy. Damn get over yourself.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 18, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Hindsight is 20/20... I just hope Snyderatto learns from the latest give away of the 2nd 2009 and 6th in 2010 draft picks given up for a guy who has what 2 sacks in the 10 or so games he's played in this season. Who may very well not be here next year with his sky high salary. Let me think, whats more valuable to a franchise??? The latter or the possibilty of a 2nd round draft pick that could contribute next season to an aging team plus the possibility of a back-up type player in 2010, who knows they may find another gem like Horton. I thought they had changed their ways... maybe they are slowly. You would think (in hindsight) that after Daniels went down the 1st day of training camp, they would just suck it up and lean on D Evans, C Wilson and the rookie R Jackson to fill the void, possibly signing a vet FA to help with a rotation for the season...

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

As the Swaimi would say..."COME ON MAN"

That takes common sense and humility. None of which the FO has.

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Baseball and football

he has a DS and he's getting a Wii I think, but I ain't buying him any video games. I'm down with video games myself, but darn these kids today, that's all they do.

He always talks about an obstacle course, but I dunno how to go about doing/buying that.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Here's another guessing game. One guy is 5 foot 5, a billionaire, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about any media member or fan for that matter. The other guy is 5 foot 2, has little man's syndrome, loves soccer and ipods, and thinks EVERYONE should talk to him and if they don't he will constantly bash them. Can you name them?

Posted by: Lacantwrite | December 18, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

HAHAHA!!! nice.

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

"As the Swaimi would say..."COME ON MAN"

That takes common sense and humility. None of which the FO has.

Posted by: Devo2 "

Ha! The "COME ON MAN" was funny stuff the one time I saw it.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

wanted to check back in this AM and respond to "chrislarry". if there is one franchise in town that could take the gamble of completely rebuilding and count on the fans being there 2-3 years out, it's the skins, not the caps.

Posted by: Caps09 | December 18, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

Can he ride a Bike if so that is a great gift, or they have some great scooters out now.

There are always video consoles.

I just like to see kids getting out and playing, although it's a shame that you have to constantly watch them.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

As the Swaimi would say..."COME ON MAN"

That takes common sense and humility. None of which the FO has.

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Whats a swaimi??? -TBF Homo1

Whats humility??? -Snyderatto

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

"Possibly, but our record of late is to overpay for the wrong people.

History has to teach you something at some point?

Posted by: Devo2"

Oh, I agree. Hopefully Vinny will learn. The Jets drafted 2 linemen in the first round a couple years ago, and signed two more big-time linemen in free agency just last year. The results are that a RB like Thomas Jones can keep pace with a RB like Clinton Portis AND they can keep Brett Favre standing upright in the pocket.

Of course Vinny doesn't believe in drafting linemen early...

Posted by: psps23 | December 18, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

JLa is digging through Redskins trash cans looking at old mail. The next post is gonna be about silly credit card purchases and fudged tax returns. Get a job at TMZ...

Posted by: p1funk | December 18, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

I still can't make this all about CP. Is he not the best, sure. But I guarantee that if the O-line was healthy CP would be leading the league in rushingright now.

His salary and cozy relationship with management aside, he is not the problem around here by a long shot.

I can think of about a dozen teams who would love to have him right now, including Denver.
Don't know what the point of this post by Jasno is.

I'm guessing he's taking another shot at Vinny for not drafting Thomas Jones.

OK, well at least try to remember Jones was considered a bust for Arizona (the team that drafted him) because of injuries. He never was the full-time starter for the team that drafted him.

He didn't really find his stride until 5 years and 4 teams into his career. And if he was so great why did the Bears feel the need to draft Cedric Benson after they had Jones.

Jones was a late bloomer in the NFL. At least Portis has been good right out of the gate.

Plus, how many running backs do you knwo that change their entire running style, from finesse to power and still be effective? Ask Thomas Jones to do that!

Sorry Jasno, you're not turning me off CP.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 18, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse


good presents for a 6 year old boy?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Why don't you just read the "good presents for a 6 year old boy" blog somewhere.

This is a Redskins blog. It's called "Redskins Insider".

Posted by: TiredOfLosers | December 18, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

If you're not going the video game route, then get him something sports related. I bought my kids a baseball bat/ball set for hand eye coordination. The bat is probably no more than 1 inch wide, and the balls are like practice golf balls.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"caps09",

I don't think I agree with you on that. And hey my point was only that the skins/caps situation is not really analogous, not to knock the Caps. I freakin love the caps brutha, saw my first game when I was 5 and i was hooked, had bobby gould, langway, gartner and stevens taped to my 6th grade school desk. I made my wife sit in a motel in Miami Beach while I listened to the final game last season on the internet to see if we made the playoffs...

So my man back off, we are on the same side....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Do you watch football at all? I live in New York and Thomas Jones is nothing. He gets whatever the offensive gives him. He is not half the blocker Portis is and they are equal receivers. Once again, you destroy our o line yet you try to make a point Portis isn't that great. The jets have two pro bowlers on their line and an alternate YET JONES STILL HAS LESS YARDS. You need to go write for the the Wizards or something. You have become a terrible beat writer because every thought is so ridiculously clouded.

Posted by: Houligan26 | December 18, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Gift for a 6yo boy a brass stripper pole for the basement and a couple of hundred dollars in dollar bills.

Deadskins need a general manager who isnt a bottom to Danny Boy's top!

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 18, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"Why don't you just read the "good presents for a 6 year old boy" blog somewhere.

This is a Redskins blog. It's called "Redskins Insider".

Posted by: TiredOfLosers


Link to that blog please?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

CL,

What have I told you about using those big words, I don't like to have to look up words to read your post. LOL

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

This post is, to me what you call the climax of the saga.

The tipping point.

The last post before the montage and ending.

Wow, why even waste the time and rebutt something so stupid?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 18, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

All true. But CP really is the heart of the team, not to mention the best blocking back in the league.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 18, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

If Detroit drafts Stafford and Moreno, I might let Detroit be my "second team".


Hell, they could even get Brannon Sutherland (FB) in the 5th or 6th round and we're looking at a UGA backfield for the ages!!!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Link to that blog please?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:25 AM

Here you go Truth,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 18, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Make this post exhibit A on why JLA can at times come off like a mega deuche....and I like the dude and basically agree mostly with his slant...

And I gotta back my boy the Truth, TiredofLosers...mellow out dude...jimminy christmas its the holidays already spike an egg nog and unwind a bit.

Truth: There are these super cool action figures for younger kids called "Imaginex" sorta like Fischer Price Adventure People back in the day. My nephew loves them.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

$14 Million would buy us a few more players, for sure. But keep in mind that this is the Redskins we're talking about and that $14 mil wouldhave gone to Maurice Clarrett, Mike Williams and Charles Rogers.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 18, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Cl - Caps attendance was horriffic at the begining of last year and was TV.

This year, TV is up 125%. CAPS have alot of fair weather fans....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 18, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Comparing/Contrasting two good players in a isolation is tardville. Also tardville is bashing Thomas Jones. He is having a terrific season (and i have seen basically every Jets game here in NYC) on a much better offensive team. Portis is not the problem on the Skins, bottom line.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse

I'll take CP thanks. Not really sure what the point of this post was.

Posted by: Gweez | December 18, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Truth Pockets Straight

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

4th, Caps have always struggled in the market for a variety of reasons, but have a very loyal base. But your statement is tardville. The broke that team down to unwatchable. Total scorched earth policy to save the franchise, and to their credit it has now worked. Add the lock out and the national attitude towards hockey at that time and it was a perfect storm. But please dont knock Caps fans, when the product began to resemble quality fans returned in droves.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

JLC - Has Jones ever carried a team on his back to the playoffs like CP? I don't think so. Stats don't tell you everything, you should know better. Sometimes it's about when you get the yards, not how many you get.

Posted by: ebberger | December 18, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

in the interest of trying to keep things light and get away from the beacon of negativity that this place has become recently, anyone getting anything / asking for anything/giving anything good for the upcoming Holiday?

I'll start. Giving my 3 kids a Wii...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Wow great dad beantown with the Wii!

You will enjoy it almost as much. Get Wii Fit, its fun and a work out!

Good Wii games: GTR Hero, Zelda, Super Mario Smash Brothers.

Also if you network the Wii to wireless you can buy (cheap) old school games like donkey kong and Mario Brothers!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Everyteam has fairweather fans.

I meant to add you are part of the loyal fanatics (such as the ones that still go to Lions games). If the CAPS had a JLaC version of a beat reporter, you'd probably be ripping him to death as opposed to defending his journalistic peragative. I ccould see it now.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 18, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

greg, If you Jibba Jabba they will come.

Mrs. etrod gets a purse and shoes that match. Might not sound like much but the fact that I put any thought whatsoever into a gift will floor her.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 18, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

I think the recent success of rookie RBs (A. Peterson C. Johnson, S. Slaton, J. Stewart, Forte) has pretty much ended the long term, multi million dollar contract for RBs.

Too bad we can't trade Portis for some high draft picks.

Posted by: heyjoe728 | December 18, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

cl, thanks, it was a struggle to find one, but we ordered it online from Toys R Us, if anyone is thinking of it.

I think we got my son the Mario game you mentioned above.

I'm somewhat excited about it myself...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Should do career stats if your going to compare.

Games Rushing YPC Passing

CP
98 9052 4.5 1895

TJ
130 7725 4.0 1770

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 18, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

4th, wait are you now questioning my redskins fandom now? i am so confused. B/C if so, well..........


And the Caps beat Writer is the best beat writer the Post has. Dude makes JLC look like piker (look it up flounder).

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm getting my parents a 20x24 penciled drawing of a photo of me and my bro when we were like 3 and 6.

Using MyDavinci.com or something, not too bad a price

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 18, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

eh;

until we win consistently, everything can be second guessed.

JLA has points, but overreaches to make them.

He shouldnt call them equal, but should state that better GM's may have made more with less.

One thing you cany argue is that we are the best out of making nothing out of something.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 18, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

It's not a knock on Portis to look back and conclude that the trade for him was bad for the Skins. They've spent countless millions trying to replace Champ (who wisely demanded to leave town), and they could have used the picks they traded to shore up either line.

If you have decent line play, you can get by with an average running back. Portis was a luxury we couldn't afford. Now we've run him to death. He's lost his top gear and he's going to start falling apart. Then where are you? No line, and no running back.

Portis is the kind of player (expensive and explosive) that you add when you're one player away. We weren't then and we aren't now. The Skins should have focused on linemen back then. They should have focused on linemen last year. And they should focus on linemen this year and for the next three years.

It's like waiting to eat your dessert after your vegetables. The Skins have been fattening up on dessert for years. Remember what your mama said about your vegetables? They make you strong.

The Skins are weak. Blame Danny and Vinny. And I like your site: firecerrato.com

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 18, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Jasno is now in full Vinny attack mode.

If its anything he can say to remotely tie to the organization to a mistake he'll throw it out there.

But he's really reaching on this one.

How many more dumb posts like this will it take before the act gets old?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 18, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

"One thing you cany argue is that we are the best out of making nothing out of something."

So true Zeebs, so true....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

orig-e, came home last night, wife hands me a new watch for her, that she bought for herself, but from me. I like when that happens...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

I have put no thought yet. I do good under pressure and its not close enough to Xmas yet.

Plus, my littile one's 1st Bday is Sunday. So, atleast I have something to do toher than watch the skins upset the Eagles.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 18, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

greg, If only I could be that lucky.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 18, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: Zeebs | December 18, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

What the heck is the point of this thread?

You are TRULY pressing, Dude!

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 18, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

and that should say cant argue... does that change your response cL>?

Posted by: Zeebs | December 18, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

e, she called me at work like 3-4 years ago, and asked me if it was ok if she bought herself her own Christmas gift?? I told her she NEVER has to call, or even hesitate when this dilemna comes up....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 18, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

zeebs, no I read it that way! Ha...I feel ya!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 18, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

"I'll take CP thanks. Not really sure what the point of this post was.

Posted by: Gweez"

"Just food for thought about the ways in which organizations assess talent and allocate resources."

When you make assembling a dominant offensive line a priority, you don't need Clinton Portis to put up Portis-esque numbers.

Lesson #1 for Vinny. I'm glad he called this out.

Posted by: psps23 | December 18, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Man its good to be single.. this time last year I was all worried about getting a good gift for her... Now I can just focus on getting some strange for Xmas! Happy Holidays!

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 18, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

The difference is you get a face of an organization as well. For an extra 14 million dollars he got a player that sold 14 million more jerseys than the other.

The team has to make money in order to pay for the other players. The team also needs an identity and he is that player, Jones is not. That's why the Jets were forced to take on crap Brett.

Posted by: Pleepleus | December 18, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Jla, enough with the negativity, have you ever heard of the christmas spirit? Stop being a grinch.

Thx!

Posted by: santanastark | December 18, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Deadskins need a general manager who isnt a bottom to Danny Boy's top!

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 18, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse

Oh Snap! That's gotta hurt.

Posted by: Devo2 | December 18, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

No secret why Denver was willing to deal him several years ago.

Posted by: i155133 | December 18, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

J-La "these #s don't lie"

Uh, yes they do. Put T. Jones behind this O-Line and no way he gets the #s Portis put up this year.

Not a strong argument here, J-La. T. Jones is having a career year. Portis has carried the Redskins offense every year he has been here (except the one year he got hurt)

Stop wasting our time with apples to oranges BS

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 18, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Ok, JLC what's your point? Does it mention why TJ keeps getting moved around? maybe get rid of Portis and play Betts that's all this team needs. Wow that was easy trade Portis, start Betts instant playoff contenders. And here I was thinking that the problem was: Dana Stubblefield, Trotter, Trung, Norv, Spurrier, Marty, Harper, Sanders, George, Johnson, then George again, Shuler, Ferotte, Ramsey, Wueffel, all the former Uof Fl players, J.Taylor, and a host of other dumb trades and free agent pick-ups not to mention horrible drafts picks and an incompentent front office. Wow i was wrong all along the reason the skins have been losing is Clinton Portis and his massive contract.

Posted by: russelljharris | December 18, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

All of the shortcomings of Portis and the Redskins front office notwithstanding, I am sick to death of people making an issue of the fact that the Redskins traded away "the best cover corner in the NFL" to get him. Champ Bailey was about to be a free agent, and said publicly he would not re-sign with the Redskins. Got it? It was not their idea to let Bailey go. Got it? They had to make the best deal they could or get crucified for not attempting to get some value in return. Got it? Under the circumstances, they were lucky to get a ham sandwich for Bailey. And if everyone else in the NFL is such a genius to recognize the obvious greatness that is Thomas Jones, why did the Bears let him go for nothing, and place their future in the hands of a true flop - Cedric Benson?

Posted by: jaypem | December 18, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

The thing that's most upsetting is that in the original trade of top corner for top rb, we should have gotten a pick, not given one.

And in terms of value, 2nd rounders are tops on the board because they don't get the bonuses first rounders do but are nearly as productive.

The ONLY reason Portis could have been worth the pick was if he WASN'T given a new contract. His high value was entirely from the fact he was still on his rookie deal when he was traded.

The Redskins still haven't figured out that you pay market (i.e. high) prices for veteran talent, but you underpay when you get draft picks who produce.

Posted by: MarquisSmith | December 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

I realize we are getting ahead of ourselves, but with little left to analyze in terms of playoff possibilities...I say we trade our 1st rounder and 3rd rounder for the Lions 2nd 1st rounder (from Dallas), their 2nd round pick, and their 7th round pick. This would allow us to get two lineman (2 offensive or 1 offensive 1 defensive) in the first 33 picks. Then we sign one or two of the following: Albert Haynesworth, Julius Peppers, Tommie Harris, or Jordan Gross. All of these guys are fairly young with 6 years or less of experience. Rejuvenate the lines with a combo of youth/skill and portis/betts will look pretty good. We can use a 6th or 7th rounder on another running back also or bring back Marcus Mason for a little extra burst if need be.
I agree that you do not spend too much money or too high a draft pick on a running back. Even if they are the best player, they get hit too much and are not usually durable enough to give the returns on investment required.

Posted by: skins9and7 | December 18, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Thank you for finally calling attention to how inflated our opinion of Clinton Portis is. Is he tough? Yes. Can he block? Absolutely. But will he take a screen pass fifty yards to the house like the back in Philly, or break five tackles en route to plowing over a free safety? No. He will, however, make noise with his mouth and receive special treatment from the owner who "loves" him. He will also continue to eat cap space and get caught from behind. I don't relish this reality, but am unbiased enough to recognize it.

Posted by: John_Keats | December 18, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

to many thomas jones is a bust. the 6th pick in the draft and the longest he has lasted with any team is 3 years. plus, not getting a 1000 yd season until he is on his 3rd team really makes him a "great" rb... jlc is a weiner!!! you can't compare thomas jones and cp!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 18, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Oh, and let's not forget that Betts and Kenny Watson and Rock Cartwright were all capable of playing decent ball--there was no need to give up our best and most desired player and a second round pick!

Watson has a 4.6 yd average, and when full time last year due to injury was 4.3. And we know what Betts can do behind a good line. And look at Cartwright's ypc. Fact is the guys we had could have done what CP does over the 4 years.

It's pretty clear the team would have been better off on offense drafting an o-lineman with the #2 pick it traded for Portis, better on D by keeping Bailey instead of signing Springs, and using the cap space to bolster WR and D-line, where the team has been woeful to adequate since Gibbs 1.

On the other hand, does the front office have any ability whatsoever to identify receivers? Cliff Russell--3rd round, five career receptions. Taylor Jacobs, 2nd round, 37 career receptions, Rod Gardner, best of the bunch, 1st round, 242 career receptions, Brandon Lloyd, (46 receptions in 3 years since acquired for a 2nd or 3rd round pick), David Patten (88 receptions in four years since the Skins acquired him).

Moss and Randle El have been ok for the money we are paying, considering Moss' injury problems. James Thrash couldn't even stick around receiver-starved Philadelphia and years later is still getting a lot of snaps here.

The situation is just abysmal.

Posted by: MarquisSmith | December 18, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see Holmgren as the GM. Vinny as VP, Holmgren as prez, Zorn as coach but bring in a guy like Brad Childress to run the offense. Zorn needs a coordinator and stop wearing so many hats. Childress will probably be fired if they do not make the playoffs.

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

the redskins suck, face it. why do people hate on JLA? he is just reporting the fact the skins suck.

Posted by: dadanimal | December 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Man this blog does not believe in the freedom of speech. I posted a comment about JLC and all his negativity and they did not even post it. It said it was being held by the owner.

YOU EVER HEARD OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT JLC!The truth must be heard! Go Vinny and Larry!

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

What are Thomas Jones stats when it comes to blitz pickup and downfield run blocking?

Not saying Portis has been worth the ALL the money, but I'd sure rather have him on the team, distraction or not, than TJ.

Jason, it's time to have that big chip removed from your shoulder. Vinny and Dan don't need any help looking like fools and we are smart enough to see it.

Posted by: jahs4fun | December 18, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

This article should not be about Portis.. He got what he got and that's kudos to him. If we were in his shoes, we'd milk it for all it's worth too. The problem is and always will be the front office and ownership of this organization that cannot evaluate talent and has no idea how to "build" a team. Snyder and Cerrato are the cancer that is slowly killing this team and it's fan based support.

Posted by: skinfannomore | December 18, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"It's pretty clear the team would have been better off on offense drafting an o-lineman with the #2 pick it traded for Portis, better on D by keeping Bailey instead of signing Springs.." Marquis Smith

That second round pick was Tatum Bell who is a bust and Bailey did not want to re-sign with Skins. They gave him a big contract offer and he flat out said no. Gibbs did the right thing by trading for Portis. He has been the heart and soul of this team for 5 seasons. He will finish the leading rusher in Skins history. And Springs has been the best corner for 5 seasons and will stay on to play free safety so Laron can patrol the line of scrimmage.

I loved Bailey as much as the next guy but he did not want to be here so good riddance. Plus he got beat by Amani Toomer every year!

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm sorry JLC, but you forgot one huge factor in all those numbers. Portis' 2006 totals skew everything. He was injured that whole year and only had 127 carries. Yes, that would raise his overall carry total up but he was not "Postis" that entire year. I usually agree with most everything you say but come on.

PS How was the flight back from cincy? I was feeling the turbulence.

Posted by: nharding44 | December 18, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Jason's down on Portis, but alternatively you could say Portis has been a great investment because he plays hurt and pretty well, doesn't miss too many games, and has been consistently productive. Look at how many RBs Denver has cycled through in one season, let alone five! (And we were going to lose Bailey anyway, remember?) Meanwhile, Portis has brought stability to the position for five years, with solid and sometimes elite play. Compare Portis to Westbrook's (who Jason cited him as a better alternative to Portis) numbers:
games yards tds
2008 12 841 9
2007 15 1,333 7
2006 15 1,217 7
2005 12 617 3
2004 13 812 3

I'd take Portis. Marion Barber, who Jason would also prefer, has these numbers:

2008 13 872 7
2007 16 975 10
2006 16 654 14
2005 13 538 5

Not bad, but let's see how well Barber holds up as a starting back. This year, his carries are up, but his touchdown numbers are down. He no longer has fresh 4Q legs for pounding tired defenses. I'm still leaning toward Portis.

Posted by: druppe01 | December 18, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

@

Jasno is now in full Vinny attack mode.

If its anything he can say to remotely tie to the organization to a mistake he'll throw it out there.

But he's really reaching on this one.

How many more dumb posts like this will it take before the act gets old?


Who made the Portis trade??? Gibbs!!
Your post is ingnorant = uninformed.
Moron

Posted by: johnbear1 | December 18, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Another stupid post by JLC. His hatred for CP is incredible. He's always quick to attack the players and never calls out Zorn because he's a "great quote." Since JLC likes to compare players, compare coaches as well genious. Compare the talent of the first year coaches in Atlanta and Miami to that of Jim Zorn JLC. Spin those numbers for the readers!

Posted by: dcwun | December 18, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

"I'm sorry JLC, but you forgot one huge factor in all those numbers. Portis' 2006 totals skew everything. He was injured that whole year and only had 127 carries. Yes, that would raise his overall carry total up but he was not "Postis" that entire year. I usually agree with most everything you say but come on."


Thank you. I read all of these comments and it took the second to last post I read for someone to mention that these numbers are completely skewed by the portis injury.

Posted by: gorebd82 | December 18, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Snyder made tons of money, never played football and thinks he is always right. He has made every mistake imaginable and fans continue to follow him over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings. Turn off the TV because every commercial you watch during the Redskins game is just making Snyder richer and dumberer.

Posted by: jercha | December 18, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Everybody is tired of the negative spin on our beloved team. Please let the mayor handle the posts from now on. Go bash the Mystics or Nationals or something else.

Your rhetoric is old and tiresome and completely biased toward the Skins.

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

jpem says (in full revisionist history mode): "All of the shortcomings of Portis and the Redskins front office notwithstanding, I am sick to death of people making an issue of the fact that the Redskins traded away "the best cover corner in the NFL" to get him. Champ Bailey was about to be a free agent, and said publicly he would not re-sign with the Redskins. Got it? It was not their idea to let Bailey go. Got it? They had to make the best deal they could or get crucified for not attempting to get some value in return. Got it?"

That's totally, completely untrue. First of all, Bailey had another year on his contract and was not threatening to hold out. Then the Skins could have franchised him. That's two more years they could have gotten out of him -- easily. And by then, who knows what would happen? Maybe some team pays a first-round pick to steal him. Maybe he changes his mind and stays. No one knows.

But we do know this: you don't "got it". Not at all.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 18, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Yeah but who wants someone that does not want to be here. HE was treated as a superstar in DC and all he does is turn around and hate.

let me check on that year left in contract thing when dealt. I believe he was a UFA when traded.

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Wow, JLC found just ONE guy with more bang for the buck than Portis over the last 5 years!

Just ONE!

And Portis' numbers are still much better!!

***OH AND NICE HOW YOU LEAVE OUT RECEIVING AND PASSING STATS AS WELL AS THE FACT THE PORTIS IS ONE OF THE BEST BLOCKING BACKS IN THE LEAGUE!!!

Not one team in the league would take Jones over Portis.....NOT ONE!!!

ROFL you fargin loser! :)

Posted by: filmchis | December 18, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Completely wrong diesel_skins!!!!!!

From the AP in 2004: The Redskins gave Bailey permission to talk to other teams and designated him as their franchise player last month. Bailey's contract expires this week, and he and the Redskins never came close to agreement on a new deal.

AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service


Do your research before you bash a fellow poster!

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 18, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

How did the Redskins beat writer end up being a baltimore fan who doesn't seem to like the skins anyway?

I've watched Jones since he came into the league (was living out west when he played for the Cards) and he is a Shaun Alexander type running back. He takes what the line gets him, then he falls down.

CP is a running back that runs a draw against a goal line defense that's keying on the run on fourth and 1 and gets four yards.

Posted by: ecale25 | December 18, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

How long are you going to ram this comparison in our head? Don't you have another Leigh Torrence update.

Posted by: dph60 | December 18, 2008 12:29 PM | Report abuse

Part of this is the fact that 1) Danny alway overpays 2) Redskins fans have a fascination with "stars" -- real or imagined.

Portis a good, or even very good RB. But Skins fans hype him like he the next Jim Brown, Barry Saunders, or something. He's not THAT good, particularly without adequate blocking ahead of him. He certainly does not create like those guys did.


I remember the same "star" fascination with Lavar Arrington earlier in the decade. Was more hype than reality. Gregg Williams, then the Giants had no use for him.

Posted by: loux23 | December 18, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

why does anyone waste their time discussing portis? when he's gone he'll be remmbered as a cancer OV biggest sports star in town, get used to it

Posted by: Caps09 | December 18, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I have to keep telling myself as a Redskin fan in the Danny regime, "It is not my money! It is not my money! It is not my money!". As long as Danny Boy spends all his remaining money next year on O-Line and D-Line help, I will be as happy as a clam because "it is not my money"!!!! Spend, Danny, spend! Waste, Danny, waste! By the way, can I get a job with a guaranteed bonus? Please, you dum F@#K!? Pretty please??? With sugar on top?

Posted by: JohnWWW | December 18, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

He's not trying to bash CP necessarily or mention that Vinny should have drafted TJ. I agree with him on this...the point is that the front office doesn't think about "architecting" a team. You can get similar production from someone else for less and spend the extra money to build the rest of your team...thats what good teams do...look at the big picture and all components...not just a couple of star players or certain positions. Its just an analysis and I think its valid...he's not always valid and he does like rubbing things in, but I think what JLC is showing is interesting and shows the core problem with the Skins.

I still can't make this all about CP. Is he not the best, sure. But I guarantee that if the O-line was healthy CP would be leading the league in rushingright now.

His salary and cozy relationship with management aside, he is not the problem around here by a long shot.

I can think of about a dozen teams who would love to have him right now, including Denver.
Don't know what the point of this post by Jasno is.

I'm guessing he's taking another shot at Vinny for not drafting Thomas Jones.

OK, well at least try to remember Jones was considered a bust for Arizona (the team that drafted him) because of injuries. He never was the full-time starter for the team that drafted him.

He didn't really find his stride until 5 years and 4 teams into his career. And if he was so great why did the Bears feel the need to draft Cedric Benson after they had Jones.

Jones was a late bloomer in the NFL. At least Portis has been good right out of the gate.

Plus, how many running backs do you knwo that change their entire running style, from finesse to power and still be effective? Ask Thomas Jones to do that!

Sorry Jasno, you're not turning me off CP.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 18, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RHPa | December 18, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

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