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Samuels Out for the Season (Updated)

Jason La Canfora reports:

Tackle Chris Samuels has a 50-percent tear of his triceps and will undergo season-ending surgery, Coach Jim Zorn said.

Samuels was injured Sunday night in the Redskins' 24-10 loss to the Ravens in Baltimore.

Zorn reports that Chris Horton (shoulder), Jon Jansen (knee) and Justin Geisinger (knee) were to undergo MRIs as well.

Stephon Heyer will step in at left tackle, Zorn said, and, Jason Fabini would replace Jansen at right tackle, if need be.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 8, 2008; 12:25 PM ET
 
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Next: Injuries Have Zorn Making Changes

Comments

Suze, u can buy me a beer.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:17 PM
******************************
Provided it's in a bottle which you then use as a prop to make noise!

Interesting observation re: Zorn. I first really liked his frankness and honesty with the media, but you may be right that he needs to not be SO honest. Something to think about.

Posted by: suzannepdc | December 8, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

that Campbell was a warrior.

Posted by: Lisa_R

I have to agree with that. He took some shots last night.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 8, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said he had more confidence in Betts at the time (atleast that what it sounded like)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:33 PM

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Campbell's been a warrior all season. One of the few bright spots looking into the future, IMO.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: We lost on several plays (which is what I knew he would say)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Bummed about Samuels, but with the playoffs so unlikely it seems better to get him taken care of now and have him ready for practice in spring...

Is he also getting something done with his bum knee? Can't remember if he had put off some knee procedure until after the season...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Hey Vinny this is where O line depth would have helped you and Danny's first year coach but since you didn't draft any.........anyway sorry to see Samuels go down, just listening to Zorn's presser sounds like the list for MIA's.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Taking shots and simply getting up does not make you a warrior.
Getting up and making something else happen on the next play, like the great ones have in the past, that is a warrior.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said "The scheme was there..." are you s*ittin me? He can be a good coach like I have said but he needs to ADJUST!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Zorn:

Even though Clinton didn't play the 2nd half, he will now be able to practice all this week.

(4th's note: WTF?!?!? Practice!?!? Practice!?!? Plaxico Buress didn't PRACTICE ALL LAST YEAR ON HIS WAY TO THE SUPERBOWL!!)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan
Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Can I nominate this for our dumbest post of the week?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Tyler2Durden, they did have quite a few more pass plays, including ones for yards. I sit you not.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Zorn : "We just got Physically beat"

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said he had more confidence in Betts at the time (atleast that what it sounded like)....

Posted by: 4thFloor


WTF! You got to be joking!! No one in their right damn mind would have more confidence in Betts over CP

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 8, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: We physically got beat...

(4th's note of what JZ will say: Check!)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan


Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

i'll still your bet about not winning another game dude...u game?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Great job vinny!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to add depth to the o line in the off season. You suck! Maybe instead of hosting a stupid radio show you can start scouting o linemen for next years draft. Oh thats right you gave up a second round pick for a washed up defensive end. You are an idiot!

Posted by: bigjofc | December 8, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

1st, JZ said they had a great practice last week. Now he says they have come in with a 'Minimal Attitude' (Doing their job only to a minimal extent)

(4th's Note: Whaa? Make up your mind. Either they came strong or didn't at all.....)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Tyler2Durden, they did have quite a few more pass plays, including ones for yards. I sit you not.

Posted by: dcsween
___________________________________________

True but the scheme did not win the game.
Zorn is calling out his players and sayin how veterans need to police the locker room. This should have been addressed in private with the team and during training camp.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

WTF! You got to be joking!! No one in their right damn mind would have more confidence in Betts over CP

JM220

Um I am a minority opinion that would say a 100% Betts is better than a 70% CP, because against a hard Ravens D, a healthy Betts has a better shot at getting that extra yard. Even though I want to trade Betts in the off season for some draft picks I would rather a healthy bruiser, Fabini will start in place of JJ it sounds like.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Zorn told the remaining linemen that they cannot get hurt - that is their mandate.

Essentially, there's nothing left in the cupboard.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

JZ: I 'command' the rest of the OLine not to get hurt for the rest of the season......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Last night ... 37 pass plays ... 21 running plays. Portis, 11 carries for 32 yards on rushing. 3 catches for 14 yards. Betts, only 6 carries for 3 yards rushing, but 3 catches for 57 yards receiving.

jm220, I don't think Zorn was joking.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Zorn sounds like an bumbling idiot!

Zorn: "I don't just want guys looking at each other" Huh??

"I want them to play with pride...not because it is their job".

He sounds more like JC's Dad than a HC of a football team!!

I am beginning to despise Zorn.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Zorn sat Portis to keep him from getting more beaten up. He'll never say it but he -- and all of us -- knew last night was a loser from the start. The 'Skins have one shot at the postseason: beat Cincy, Philly, and SF. Saving Portis from getting pounded by that defense was smart... Zorn's taking a longer view, even though it looks like 8-8 is where we'll wind up. We should beat Cincy, get pounded by the Eagles for the same weaknesses we've shown against Pittsburgh, Dallas, and the Giants, and play a pick 'em in SF. Maybe 9-7 if we're lucky?

Posted by: outsider6 | December 8, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn: We physically got beat..."

"Zorn said "The scheme was there..."

No sit, sherlock. As mmz said, anybody can scheme Geisinger blocking Terrell Suggs 1-on-1 and dream it to perfection. It takes a special person to blame the blown-up play on physically getting beat, though.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

He sounds more like JC's Dad than a HC of a football team!!

I am beginning to despise Zorn.

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 12:44 PM |

Soup,

JC's dad is a HC of a football team granted it is High School.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Zorn talks about JC doing something well like you would praise your 3 yr. old for using the potty all by themselves. I hope I am wrong cause it seems he is talking down to and being condescending to grown men.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

LH - We had 2 guys on the practice squad who got signed to other teams during the season (Crummy and another).....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

JZ - Against bad teams we're good; against good teams we're Sex Panther.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

soup, u need to take Staying medium 101

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,
Do you think Zorn takes JC for icecream after every game too?

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Zorn excerpt that I am taking out of context entirely: "We have got to find our balls..."

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

JC needs to go off on a lineman, veteran or not, for missing an assingment right there on tv for all to see. These guys are not playing to their potential!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

JZ has been stumped by a reporter trying to find excuses why CP was NOT in there.

He said CP stayed in too long to pass protect when he should have went out in a pass pattern (WHY would he let JC get hit? He prob should've stayed in)

He said that because Ladell PRACTICED last week, he knew to get out in the pass pattern.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,
Do you think Zorn takes JC for icecream after every game too?

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 12:47 PM |

Yes after he takes him to the Hospital.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

No team can withstand the loss of both offensive tackes. Giants or Lions or any team in between.

Granted, one can argue that the depth on the O-line by the Skins is worse than most good teams. Or average teams.

But let's face it, with the salary cap no team is able to stash quality line depth anymore.

Posted by: SteveMG | December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

To those who are advocating wholesale change and firing people and quitting on what's left of the season, the shift back to the passing game over the running game is what you were supposed to feel good about re: last night (i.e., the "developmental" stuff for next season).

The Skins are exactly what they look like ... not as good as they look when they won and not bad as they look when they lost.

Now I think we all need to take a step back and refocus on our narcissistic ethos (thanks, 70Chip!).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I hate to say it but maybe season ending surgery for Samuels is a good thing? Also, Note to Joe Bugel: DO NOT PUT JANSEN BACK IN!!!!!! Let Fabini and Heyer play the last 3 games.

Posted by: audreyelizabeth | December 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Too bad because Crummy is a perfect name for a Skins olineman.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 8, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Notorious,

What do you want to bet?

Alex,

are you a guy or girl? that name goes both ways. Nominate it if you want to, but who else on our team(Offense) has any real value?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Flacco only had 135 yards passing with no pressure. BUT HE MADE SMART PLAYS WHEN NECESSARY AND HIS LINE IS PLAYING ABOVE ITS POTENTIAL.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Zorn talks about JC doing something well like you would praise your 3 yr. old for using the potty all by themselves. I hope I am wrong cause it seems he is talking down to and being condescending to grown men.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse


So true!

Posted by: Soup17 | December 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

I think if you had taken a poll before the game on how the game would look ... that was pretty much it. A very aggressive defense stopped our offense. Their defense made bigger plays than our defense, but for most of the night, both defenses dominated.

Their offense did just enough trickery to get them so key field position. Our offense was stale and far too often, someone came at JC untouched.

Suisham missed a FG, Zorn decided not to be aggressive at the end of the half (though I don't think it was as bad a call as many up here think).

With the game on the line, the defense wasn't good enough to stop a tough run attack.

Seriously, I have seen this movie before.

We are a decent team. But the 4 losses in recent weeks have all come against teams with 8 or more wins. We are not at that level.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

What I'm hearing in JZ's comment is that trying to fix the OL particularly in pass pro is priorty #1 in his mind this off-season.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: I'm not going to tale the guys 'To Act Medium. Just like I'm not telling you guys. I'm just keeping it on the inside.'

Medium is OUT THE DOOR.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Flaaco was terrible last night. He threw two balls up in the air that if the defenders make the right play do not turn into big receptions, i.e., the Heap catch and the Mason TD.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 8, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Zorn"We have to improve how we play out there" What an understatement. How about how we coach and adjust, adapt, overcome.
Coach needs to watch Heartbreak Ridge.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

ALL YOU DOUBTERS AND WHINERS- YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST - WE ARE WINNING OUT...THIS TEAM IS GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS. I'M PUTTING ALL MY CHIPS IN. YOU'RE EITHER IN OR OUT.

chat with ya Friday from the Bungalicious Queen City

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Seems they were converting Reinhart from tackle to guard. Today, they need tackles. Would like to see Reinhart get a shot at RT and Heyer at LT. It might not be pretty, but we've reaped (very little depth) what we've sown (very few draft picks) on this o-line.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Yes, Flacco was awful. That shouldn't even be an argument.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

One comment not by Zorn but by Vinny a week ago that got to me and still bugs me was that he does not start looking at the tape to see who is worth keeping and stuff till the end of the season.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Would like to see Reinhart get a shot at RT and Heyer at LT. It might not be pretty, but we've reaped (very little depth) what we've sown (very few draft picks) on this o-line.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 12:56 PM |

It has'nt been pretty with the starters in there it can not get any worse.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Notorious,

What do you want to bet?

Alex,

are you a guy or girl? that name goes both ways. Nominate it if you want to, but who else on our team(Offense) has any real value?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

lsskins, feel free to email me at lmgaffney at hotmail dot com...should probably keep wagering off the blog...you know, since it's such a family-friendly area..

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Deadskins will be a mediocre team as long as Danny Boy is owner. They will never be a better than average team or an elite team becuase Danny Boy cant help himself. He needs to meddle to feed his ego.

Deadskins fans need to hope for a miracle which results in new competent ownership.
or the reaign of mediocrity will last another 40 years.

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

I say keep CHAD at Guard... we'll need him to replace Kendall next year and the way Thomas is playing, he may replace him 1st... I've never seen Randy Thomas get blown up as much as he has the past few weeks.... Age is finally creeping in...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

I thought the majority of the 'Skins problems on O last night were the edge rushers (no gold star for stating the blatantly obvious, I know).

Seems to me that even more important than a DE this year is to draft a stud OT with the first round pick. DE's can take a year to grow into their positions (see Mario Williams), while it seems like OT's can come in right away and contribute.

Perhaps pick up a guy like Terrell Suggs in free agency and see what he looks like with his hand on the ground.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Z - It doesn't seem they will be doing that. JZ stated the Rinehart might get some reps at gaurd. He never said tackle.

And no one asked why he punted with 1:27 left in the 1st half on Bmore's 42 when thy only needed to for the 1st down and Bmore's offense was going nowhere.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

zcezest, Rinehart didn't quite work out as a tackle ... nearly got Collins killed in the preseason. The preseason/early season vibe as that he was made for guard ... guards like the kind the Skins use (big guys who can pull fast).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

The playoffs are still possible, since at least 3 teams ahead of us (dal, ATL and Car or TB) will lose this week. But we are pretty much what our record suggests. Not good enough to beat playoff teams -- good enough to beat just about anyone else.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Maybe the injuries will give us a chance to see what we have(or don't have) at depth on the o-line. With San Fran playing better and Philly looking like they did I see MAYBE one more win. Lets not forget Cincy played Dallas and NY strong on the road this year and we're NOT a team to be taken seriously right now. I expected no better than 8-8 this year with a new(and first time) head coach but after a 6-2 start I thought we'd end up at least 10-6. How disappointing. We may go the whole season w/out putting 30 on the board.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 8, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps pick up a guy like Terrell Suggs in free agency and see what he looks like with his hand on the ground.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | December 8, 2008 12:58 PM |

He looked pretty good last night with his hand on the ground.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

LH - We had 2 guys on the practice squad who got signed to other teams during the season (Crummy and another).....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:46 PM

From the Skins practice squad, Andrew Crummey is now on the Bengals' active roster, Matteral Richardson is on Houston's, and Steve Octavien is on Dallas' ... and Justin Tryon is still on the Skins' active roster.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

zcezest, Rinehart didn't quite work out as a tackle ... nearly got Collins killed in the preseason. The preseason/early season vibe as that he was made for guard ... guards like the kind the Skins use (big guys who can pull fast).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 12:59 PM |

dc,

Jansen and Samuels have nearly gotten JC killed many times this season, i think you can put any line out there you want and it could not do any worse.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan

You are an idiot

Posted by: 8andeight | December 8, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

He looked pretty good last night with his hand on the ground.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:01 PM

Looked even better with hands all over Jason Campbell.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

At this point I'm so sad that I'm not even sure I can muster the I told you so about drafting a bunch of receivers and a tight end instead of lineman.........

but I told ya'll

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see Rhino get some time, see what we have in him....however I think that DT might be a bigger need than DE...but whateves I guess....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Didn't see much preseason, so can't comment on Reinhart at T. But it does seem like that is the need and its the position he has played the most.

I'll point out that there is no good solution here. When the choices are guys like Reinhart, Fabini and Heyer ... its one of those Sophie's choice things. Might as well see what the draft pick is made of ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

He looked pretty good last night with his hand on the ground.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:01 PM

True story. So it is requested, so it shall be done. Hopefully.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | December 8, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

La,
Guy.

Start the young line options and let em make some mistakes. They have to learn from the play of the game.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

The reason for the Jets' success (and Favre's decision to go there) is because they've focused on the offensive line over the past two years in the draft and free agency (esp. the Brick and Mangold two years ago, plus Woody and Faneca last year).

Skins need to think like that given the vintage of the O-line, lest we become the Rams or Chiefs ... whose lines fell apart essentially all at the same time.

Posted by: dcsween | December 7, 2008 9:19 AM

I posted this on Saturday ... on that second paragraph, I was thinking about next season or the one after that ... I didn't expect it to happen LAST NIGHT.

Sophie's choice = two bad choices
dcsween's choice = avoiding all Meryl Streep movies

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Agree with Flounder 21 - it can't get any worse than it already is. Maybe these guys add some life to our dead offense or at least pass protect a little better.

Posted by: audreyelizabeth | December 8, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I know that this could be considered heresy, but could it be time to replace the Buges? His offensive line has always been built for the power running game. Perhaps Buges and Zorn go together like Gibbs and Saunders.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"That dingo ate my offensive line."

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:11 PM | Report abuse

J. Campbell 21/37 (56%) 218 yds (5.9 per com) 1 td 2 int
QBR 60.4.

For those who did not know.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I think Heyer and the hobbled by a bad knee Samuels are basically a wash, and I don't think anyone can be worse than Jansen at this point....but if somebody else goes down we're screwed! and the Dline is just pitiful, I think we beat Cincy, lose to Philly and lose to San Fran (who have won two straight, shoulda beat the Cards for 3 straight, and are playing hard) and finish 9-7, not a bad first year, incredibly disappointing after our start and if Vinny even looks at anywhere but Oline, Dline, and LB in the draft he should be fired immediately. I mean, Snyder in front of the cameras walks into the war room and hands him a pink slip and a pre-packed cardboard box and says don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

the entire draft needs to be about the lines (maybe another linebacker). If I see another WR or TE drafted, I will puke.

Posted by: Moose33 | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

zfjr ... I said 2 years ago that we should have drafted only o-lineman (OK, it was somewhat flippant, but I did see the urgency). Why? Because it takes a while to get these guys NFL ready.

How many people up here believed that we would finish the year with 5 of the 6 top OL healthy (Heyer, Jansen, Thomas, Rabach, Kendall and Samuels)?

This was never rocket science. O-line guys get injured. They play every snap against 300lb guys.

This entire season has really been about the o-line. When they are good, we win. When they falter, we lose.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Bugel and Danny Smith should be coaches for as long as they are willing to provide us the honor of their service. Not even Russ Grimm could turn George Burns ("Dear God") into a All-Pro offensive tackle.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm looks like they aren't "plugging holes" and picking the best athlete.

The loss of Samuels again, Jensen again, two aging guards. A dearth of 4 down defensive ends. Aging linebackers (Washington and Fletcher). Loss of Hall (likely now).

May be time to rebuild through the draft. But with Vinnie calling the shots there is no hope.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

SirAnon.

Its not heresy, I said it in pre-season since his daughter died and you could see then trouble ahead with the pass protection, that he may want to retire end of the year, another person said it here today earlier.

If it happens it needs to happen in a class way.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

+++Tackle Chris Samuels has a 50-percent tear of his triceps and will undergo season-ending surgery, Coach Jim Zorn said.

Stephon Heyer will step in at left tackle, Zorn said, and, Jason Fabini would replace Jansen at right tackle, if need be.+++


Conspicuously absent from mention here is one Chad Rinehart, Vinny Cerrato's ONLY Oline draftee in the oast couple of years.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

We need to get some more athletisism on the OL. We have lineman suited for only the power run game and pass pro based on play-action. We need to get some guys who are built for pass pro and get out and run down the field and zone block. Next year will be the exact time to do that. Keep Samuels,the guys a warrior and start to replace everyone else with faster more athletic guys that match up with Zorn's style.

Posted by: jayandcat | December 8, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Okay so we obviously didnt draft any lineman when we needed to so at this point i doubt if just drafing an o-line will be able to do anything. At this point you almost have to look into getting at least 1 FA olineman, there are just to many injuries/old players to rely on just drafing O-line. You have to wait for their development most of the time unless they are true top 10 type players, but the skins wont be able to get that. Unfortunate as it is to say Danny boy is gonna have to get out the wallet.

Posted by: Stu27 | December 8, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"I know that this could be considered heresy, but could it be time to replace the Buges? His offensive line has always been built for the power running game. Perhaps Buges and Zorn go together like Gibbs and Saunders.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat"

It may be heresy on my part for saying this at this time (or just playin kneejerk irrationality), but I'll do it anyway.

If the choice is between Zorn and Buges, I'm keeping Buges...

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Amazing how everyone says it now, where were ya'll when I was arguing tooth and nail with beantown about it 6 weeks ago when I was saying amazing how a hot start makes everyone not see the deficiencies with this team and that we can't protect or get pressure and that we have no ability to fix it because of our draft. And all I got was they aren't busts yet and wait and see and nobody understood that I didn't and don't care if their busts, it was retarded to spend only one of our first 5 picks on a lineman. Thomas I thought actually showed up and had a good game and it was nice to see, but it doesn't matter because our team's core is a mess.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

This entire season has really been about the o-line. When they are good, we win. When they falter, we lose.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:14 PM

This entire season has really be about Vinny Cerrato. Also, the correct line is "When we play physical, we win!"

http://misterirrelevant.com/index.php/2008/09/29/dan-snyder-we-play-physical-we-win/

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

+++Zorn reports that Chris Horton (shoulder), Jon Jansen (knee) and Justin Geisinger (knee) were to undergo MRIs as well.+++


I'm just relieved Malcolm Kelly didn't reinjure his knee when he collided with Chris Cooley in his own backfield.

And we're all happy Fred Davis didn't get any new splinters in his a$$.

I know, I know, beating a dead horse...


Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

How else can we say this.

10 draft picks in 2008
1 punter, 1 bench QB, 1 OL, 1 TE.

There are 5 OL, all 30+, several with history of injuries. Did we need to draft a punter? Or a TE to 'replace' Cooley? Or a QB to sit on the bench? NOOOOOOO!!!

We needed depth on the OL -- and its not like that has been a point of emphasis since Chris Samuels got picked. They only other pick since that worked was Dockery, and mgmt decided not to keep him when he was affordable.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

JZ reminds me of Norv Turner in his press conferences. Excuse after excuse, and it's the same ones every week. Not holding anyone accountable(a Gibbs trademark) and no emotion. Yawn! I miss Gibbs, even if he wasn't his "HOF years" self.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

On Betts versus CP.

It has been pretty clear that Betts is far and away the superior back in the passing game/scheme than CP. Especially on swing outs and screens he almost scored on one play.

CP is too one-dimensional. And that's why I ruffled at the thought of CP MVP. He just isn't at that level, sorry. He is a tough guy, good blocker but he is not that good coming out of the backfield on passes.

Honestly, it may be better to start Betts over CP next year if they decide to rebuild and let him go.

Again, Vinnie in charge of the rebuild? That's like putting Geisinger in at left tackle against Suggs.

So, in a very real sense the team might be better off with someone like Cowher at the helm. He would never agree to giving Vinnie that kind of power over making those decisions. Cowher would want something equivalent to Gibbs.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Malcolm Kelly's collision with Cooley actually occur about 3 yards past the line of scrimmage, and result in a TD to ARE?

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

zorn said his players were happy about being moved to sunday night because they like to play on national tv.

i dont need to remind everyone of the outcomes of the four national games theyve played this season, but for gods sake nfl dont put any skins game on primetime next season. do us that favor

Posted by: amsaul | December 8, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

all the negativity from the game lets talk about the horrible play calling by the booth Madden sounds like he watched Super Troopers and was being graded for how many times he could say exotic....

Posted by: drkeller1 | December 8, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

Because Portis didn't practice this week, Zorn said, the Redskins weren't not going to lean as heavily on him on third downs and in pass protection.
"There ain't nothing wrong with me," Portis said.

So why have you not practiced for three weeks?

Posted by: 8andeight | December 8, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

zjfr -- you can call folks out if you want, but don't be lumping me in that group of people who think Vinny has drafted smart. I've posted plenty about the distribution of draft picks ... and called the same units you did (OL, DL, LB) as aging.

My recollection is that the Skins used 19% of their draft picks on the OL and DL (past 5 years), even though they represent over 40% of the starting positions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

I will be interested to see if Zorn changes how he is as a coach next year?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

On the draft:

You draft the best athlete available, now with need in mind. You let all the high priced injury prone vets go (except in the defensive backfield because they are too hard to replace).

You mix draft with free agency. You go for younger free agents just coming into their prime. The loss of Antonio Pierce is glaring. Vinnie needs to go.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

And all I got was they aren't busts yet and wait and see and nobody understood that I didn't and don't care if their busts, it was retarded to spend only one of our first 5 picks on a lineman. Thomas I thought actually showed up and had a good game and it was nice to see, but it doesn't matter because our team's core is a mess.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:19 PM |

There is no point in harping on the draft it is over, they picked who they picked so no matter how many times you say we should have drafted O-Line. Unless you have a time machine and can go back to the draft, and then turn yourself into Vinny so you can pick the lineman it is a moot point.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

I love you guys six weeks ago you were all singing his praises; Zorn's a breath of fresh air compared to Gibbs,Zorn's a brilliant OC,the players love Zorn,NOW!! we despise him? GEEZ where is all this hate comming from? there's probably no bigger fan than your's truly but I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE, so lets give Zorn some support like i said in one of my post last week how many would have thought we'd be 7-6 at this point so if we win out we will be 10-6 not bad for a first year head coach in the NFL.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

+++I'd like to see Rhino get some time, see what we have in him....

Posted by: BeantownGreg +++|

You know the line in "Glengarry Glen Ross," where Alec Baldwin yells at Jack Lemon: "Put that coffee down! Coffee is for Closers!"?

Well same thing for cool nicknames. He shouldn't be called "Rhino" until he gets on the field.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Todd Wade, where art thou?

Posted by: nycskinsfan | December 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

"The loss of Antonio Pierce is glaring"

POST OF THE DAY!!!! POSSIBLY THE YEAR!!!!

4, going on 5 years later, and people are STILL pissing and whining about it....

Fantastic.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Buges, Zorn are not the problem. Its the FO.

Looking at this team fall apart yet again ... it may be time to rebuild from scratch. Except for QB (albeit I might select another high pick to go with Jason).

Cowher may be on his way.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

There is no point in harping on the draft it is over, they picked who they picked so no matter how many times you say we should have drafted O-Line. Unless you have a time machine and can go back to the draft, and then turn yourself into Vinny so you can pick the lineman it is a moot point.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Too bad it's not a mute point. I'm about tired of hearing it.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

It was pretty clear that our most effective plays were getting the ball wide, near the line. The 3rd down pass play to Moss on the right side (following 3 straight penalties) worked as did the swing pass to Betts on the left side.

Which make sense as the Ravens brought a lot of pressure from the edges.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

+++I will be interested to see if Zorn changes how he is as a coach next year?

Posted by: alex35332 +++


I will be interested to see IF Zorn is the coach next year.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Zorn: We lost on several plays (which is what I knew he would say)....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

The "several" plays he was referring to are, more specifically, all of the snaps our offense took...

Posted by: p1funk | December 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Cork, nice referrence to glengary glenross

Posted by: amsaul | December 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The loss of Antonio Pierce is glaring"

POST OF THE DAY!!!! POSSIBLY THE YEAR!!!!

4, going on 5 years later, and people are STILL pissing and whining about it....

Fantastic.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Especially given that his replacement, LF, has been the most irreplaceble defensive player on our team since the Pierce left us.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Essentially, there's nothing left in the cupboard.

lh, there's always safeway!

suzanne, you do know that you are agreeing with me right? you just don't agree with my form of protest. if i paid what i know you paid for those seats i'd root for the iggles rest of the year and sell your tickets to one of their fan OR don't go as a form of protest. and the reason you don't want to sell your tickets is because you don't want to miss the superbowl year. suzanne, it's not happening. not this year not next year. so don't buy the tickets. look at all the posts 4th posts up here from skins. they can't give away the tickets. and i hope you're not that guy who can't make his mortgage but still pays for his season tickets.

danny is all about image if espn starts showing his stadium half full and people that are there with bags over their heads. then how in the hell is he going to get DC to build him a new stadium?? he can't love vinny that much right?

all owners are the same. you hit em where it hurts and they WILL change. yeah danny will still make money but his bottom line will go down if no one is on that waiting list and no one buys his merchandise.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 8, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Not holding anyone accountable(a Gibbs trademark) and no emotion. Yawn! I miss Gibbs, even if he wasn't his "HOF years" self.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM

Gibbs didn't hold them accountable in the media. He took all the blame.

But when there were no cameras around, best believe he ripped a swinging soul in each and all of them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

agreed, but it all goes back to Vinny, if he stays this team is destined for mediocrity, nothing will change with this franchise while the Danny has a big say and role in personnel and while Vinny has a parking space at Redskins Park. Even if they finally agree that their lines need help, they are too dumb to fix the right way, they'll go get flashy names, like Suggs who is also another undersized guy who looks great in Baltimore where Ngata is inside and they blitz 57 people but wouldn't hold up in the East where he would be run at all game long, he's just another Andre Carter or Jason Taylor in the East, but I'm sure we'll get him since he's a flashy name.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Zorn said "The scheme was there..." are you s*ittin me? He can be a good coach like I have said but he needs to ADJUST!!

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 8, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

In Zorn's defense, the scheme was, technically speaking, there...

Just like Oscar DeLaHoya was, technically speaking, there in the ring...

Posted by: p1funk | December 8, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

"Cowher may be on his way"

Nice....

This place is a laugh riot today.....

Fire Zorn, shoulda, coulda, woulda on the draft which happened 8 months ago, MMQB'ing at its finest....

Keep going guys....high comedy.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't see us getting Billy C. Maybe big Mike Holmgren if things are gone south from what is happening now.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

The loss of Antonio Pierce is glaring.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:26 PM |

Antonio Pierce was Goat of the Week in the Meadowlands yesterday. Let Bryant Westbrook get away from him on both touchdowns and had two critical penalties that sustained drives for Philly.

Posted by: troll1 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else notice that on the deep pass to Moss, he had beaten the CB to the inside? Then he faded outside, which gave the CB a chance to get position. I didn't see if a safety was coming over and forced Santana to fade back to the outside.

Its a much harder throw to make with the fade, since the ball needs to be over the CB. If Moss stays inside, I think its a TD.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

For those interested:

The draft day trade with ATL netted the 'skins Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, and Justin Tryon.

The trade netted ATL OT Sam Baker (starting), WR Harry Douglas (21 rec, 320 yards, 1 receiving TD, 1 rushing TD, 1 punt return TD), and DE Kroy Biermann (14 tackles, 1 sack)

Just the messenger here.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Gibbs didn't hold them accountable in the media. He took all the blame.

But when there were no cameras around, best believe he ripped a swinging soul in each and all of them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2008 1:32 PM |

First go around yes, second go around not so much.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

From the Skins practice squad, Andrew Crummey is now on the Bengals' active roster, Matteral Richardson is on Houston's, and Steve Octavien is on Dallas' ... and Justin Tryon is still on the Skins' active roster.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2008 1:01 PM

I just that the Bears are in the process of signing Devin Aromashodadadadupedu.

What is with our practice squad this year. Is it normal to lose this many players in a season?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Its not about wins and losses. Its about the injuries combined with age and lack of effectiveness.

Even the defense needs some retooling. Not as much.

You need enough quality guys who can get through 16 games and the playoffs. That isn't happening. And there are now gaping holes, that will likely get wider in the offseason, on the offense. Starting with the line.

Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure we'll get him since he's a flashy name.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2008 1:32 PM

Good ol' Jack: Often wrong, never in doubt.

Posted by: troll1 | December 8, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

The trade netted ATL OT Sam Baker (starting), WR Harry Douglas (21 rec, 320 yards, 1 receiving TD, 1 rushing TD, 1 punt return TD), and DE Kroy Biermann (14 tackles, 1 sack)

Just the messenger here.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 1:34 PM |

We only gave them one pick our first so how did that result in to players.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Offensive line is only as strong as its weakest player.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

trade Tana' and Cooley, Keep CP with the hopes of getting an unpgraded O-line through draft and free agency, plug in Sleepy Davis for Cooley, and with an improved O-line, maybe even D Thomas and M Kelly can get open.

Posted by: lsskinsfan
Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Can I nominate this for our dumbest post of the week?

Posted by: alex35332 | December 8, 2008 12:39 PM

Yes, and for dumbest poster, too. Guy couldn't find his butt with both hands.

Posted by: troll1 | December 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

zj,

Again as I told Cork, harping about Vinny does no good either he is not going any were.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

We only gave them one pick our first so how did that result in to players.

Posted by: Flounder21

We traded a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, for two 2nds and a 4th.

Posted by: psps23 | December 8, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

1st round : Alex Mack, C California
3rd round : Phil Loadholt, OT Oklahoma
5th round : Bradon Swain, DE\LB West Texas A&M
6th round : Quincy Wofford, KR\CB Northern Colorado

Bring in one good defensive player at either DE, DT, or LB through free agency.

Offensive line :

Alex Mack, C
Phil Loadholt, OT
Stephen Heyer, OT
Chad Rhinehart, G
Randy Thomas, G


WE NEED A YOUTH MOVEMENT

and GET RID OF PLACKEMEIER HE SUCKS AND HE LOLLYGAGS IN THE BACKFIELD TOO MUCH

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 8, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"It has been pretty clear that Betts is far and away the superior back in the passing game/scheme than CP. Especially on swing outs and screens he almost scored on one play.

CP is too one-dimensional. And that's why I ruffled at the thought of CP MVP. He just isn't at that level, sorry. He is a tough guy, good blocker but he is not that good coming out of the backfield on passes.

Honestly, it may be better to start Betts over CP next year if they decide to rebuild and let him go. "
Posted by: periculum | December 8, 2008 1:23 PM

**************************************
One dimensional? I did not realize that RB was supposed to be the leading receiver on the team. Last time I checked, CP was banged up. That dude is a warrior. I am glad to see that they finally put Betts in the game bc CP is so banged up. But Betts is a fumble machine. Just because he is good at catching passes, does not mean he can handle the load. I mean he gets injured with just getting 5 carries a game. Who was the one that missed 4 games with a sprained knee and who was the one that toughed it out????????????

Clinton is the complete package. He should be the last option in the passing game. Or even better, staying into block bc our line cannot "communicate". He is the third leading rusher and has not been healthy the last 5 games. I don't see AP catching a ton of passes out of the backfield. That is what backup running backs are for.

CP is younger than Betts and has less injuries. He is our MVP because as everyone can now see, w/o Clinton JC becomes very average.

And all this talk about Vinny and the O-Line... he had Heyer coming back and drafted a tackle in Reinhart. What did you want him to do... spend three draft picks in the second round on Tackles.

You bandwagoners make me sick... including JLC. Don't listen to the hype, good or bad. If you want some real insight into the state of the Skins, turn on 980 and listen to B.Mitch or Doc. They really know what is going on and have been through the dogfight that is an NFL season.

Posted by: SkinsFan4Life89 | December 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

What does an interior lineman do with his arms that can result in a torn triceps? Was he holding too tightly?

Posted by: donnolo | December 8, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

I've thought about what Campbell can do well and we're not taking advantage of it. Campbell throws a flat ball which goes a long way quickly. Which means he can throw 25 yard out patterns. Or deep in patterns when the ball arrives prior to the safety. The pass to Moss I describe is an example. Campbell's pass was flat, so it wasn't tough for the DB to deflect a catchable pass. So you want more plays where Campball isn't lofting a pass directly over a DB.

I'll go back to the Super Bowl vs Buffalo. The Skins went on a drive that was essentially all Mark Rypien to Art Monk. A bunch of 15-18 yard plays. Those plays, where the WR gets downfield, turns and the ball is there before the DB can position himself are exactly what Campbell can do well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 8, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

I know, I know, beating a dead horse...

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2008 1:21 PM

If you didn't beat a dead horse, you wouldn't beat anything at all. "How do I hate thee; let me count the ways...." Boring.

Posted by: troll1 | December 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Too bad it's not a mute point. I'm about tired of hearing it.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Dude, it's moot. Not mute.

Posted by: HenryHog | December 8, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

The loss of Antonio Pierce is glaring???? Since when does he play on the O-line. Our "D" in fine.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | December 8, 2008 1:49 PM | Report abuse

Skins Fan 4 Life, I am no bandwagoner and I agree that people completely overreact but, we are who I thought we were a 9-7ish team. But you can't deny the lack of some young talent being developed behind an aging line is a problem. And while, we had Heyer coming back(he has yet to prove he can be an everydown lineman) and the book is out on Rinehart, look at Vinny's previous picks, Mark Wilson and Jim Malinaro, worked out. Probably working for UPS somewhere with no phone ringing. It just may have been a good idea at some point to use a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on some young OL or DL.

Posted by: jayandcat | December 8, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the vocab lesson, but, in the way that I was using it, it was in fact mute, not moot.

Posted by: SirAnonymoustheGreat | December 8, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

This is the kind of game you win then you have Leigh Torrence on your side.

Posted by: mmmhmmm | December 8, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Whats up with Chad Rinehart? Is he just not ready? hes gonna have to get ready quick. the depth chart is thin!

Posted by: erleach | December 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

Yep. Week 13. I'm already wondering about how many picks we're going to have by the draft. Wondering how many picks are going to be traded away to get somebody like Chad OchoCinco. Wondering how many placekickers and wide receivers we'll take in the third, fourth, fifth rounds instead of five well-scouted tackles and guards.

I don't know why I wonder. How can you build a team with three picks and four primadonnas added to the roster each year?

Posted by: Meepo | December 8, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

This team is done. While victories against Cincinnati and San Francisco may be possible the Redskins are no longer capable of competing with quality clubs that are themselves headed to the postseason.

A number of factors have done the Redskins in for the 2008 season:

1. Injuries to exactly the key players the club needs at 100%, namely Samuels, Portis, etc.

2. A 2008 draft class that didn't produce even ONE DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal to help the offense despite 3 picks in the second round taken on receivers.

3. Age on the offensive and defensive lines. Jansen is done. Kendall is 35. Thomas is 33. On the other side, Griffin is an old 31 and Jason Taylor at 34 is living off past reputation.

4. Jason Campbell seems to have reached the plateau of a serviceable NFL quarterback but doesn't seem to make even the occasional play to show he is going to be more than that.

Posted by: leopard09 | December 8, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Is there a worse management team than Snyder/Vinny ?

Posted by: cstanton1 | December 8, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

We need to start Rhinehart at one of the tackle spots and Heyer at the other. I suppose he's being groomed for guard, but at least see what you have there. Perhaps it is wise to start the vets while they're still mathematically in the playoff hunt, but if they lose one of these games it would be foolish not to play the kids.

Posted by: bmd5 | December 8, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Yes, and for dumbest poster, too. Guy couldn't find his butt with both hands.

Posted by: troll1


A troll is deliberately crafted to provoke others with the intention of wasting their time and energy. A troll is a time thief. To troll is to steal from people. That is what makes trolling heinous.

Trolls can be identified by their disengagement from a conversation or argument. They do not believe what they say, but merely say it for effect.

Trolls are motivated by a desire for attention by people and can't or won't acquire it in a productive manner.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 8, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

This is good news since Samuels sucks anyway.

Now maybe Jason won't have to worry about his blind side as much.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | December 8, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Leopard9 -- YES. To everything except JC. Campbell has yet to show he works in a legitimate offense. There have been times that -- when the protection is average, he can get off a good pass, and some joker can catch it too. He's got good size, a whale of a gun, his skills are improved (he still needs to get a little faster). He can be competent. He can exist. Even if the Vinster can get wise and draft five good big uglies, it'll be at least a season before they work well together. But you can hope; I remember the Packers had some offensive line age, addressed it in the draft, and last year the rookie linemen did pretty darn good in protecting that Fav-re guy.
Key words to that possible approach that Vinnytard and the Daniel could take: "Scouting" "Capable" "Offensive Linemen" "and then following up by drafting them."
Can they? Can they? ... stay tuned.

Posted by: Meepo | December 8, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Is there any possible way we can trade for 43 picks in the draft? Just a ludicrous thought, knowing full well the Daniel and the Cerrato would load up with two quarterbacks, four punters, and 37 wideouts.

Posted by: Meepo | December 8, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

its time to build for the future again.
Gut the roster of anyone over 30 yrs,
need increase team speed & start the back ups. Basically, Zorn has to build his team, he did give it a go with "Gibb's players." Let see what Zorn can do now.
Zorn is just stubborn as a "bull", as noted earlier, he needs to adjust!

Posted by: madalao | December 8, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

If we had used those three early picks on BIG UGLIES (instead of can't-get-on-the-field wide receivers, or perform lame when they do) we might have had some depth on the O and D lines. But Vinny knows best, right?

Posted by: CryoGen | December 8, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

We need to get a quarterback. JC is not going to get us there. All I hear is excuses and "a new system" about him. Flacco is doing pretty well with a new system and he is a rookie. Why is it everytime the camera comes on JC he looks confused? Sort of like a deer in the headlights. Also, could anyone have been beaten worse than Carlos Rogers last night? As long as I am complaining, no team misses as many field goals as Washington, or makes as many 35 yard punts.
People to cut:
Marcus Washington and Shawn Springs - habitually injured
ARE - He is trying to set the record for fair catches
Kendall - He is older than me, and I am old.
Samuels and Jansen - Matador tackles. Ole!
Both kickers
Erasmus James - Who?
Andre Carter - no comment
Jason Taylor - It ain't working
Rock "up the middle" Cartwright.
James Thrash - great Redskin but just can't do it anymore.

Posted by: rmcpks73 | December 8, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is a dud; people have been making excuses for him since his freshman year in college. The FACT is he is not an NFL QB, he was barely a serviceable college QB. It won't matter how long he is in the same system, how much talent they put around him, how weak a schedule we play. He simply isn't capable. I will point out that Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan have improved since week one and both are outplaying Campbell by leaps and bounds. Lets not forget to mention Matt Cassell, a guy who didn’t even play in college, he steps in and is terrible for the first few weeks but he did something Jason Campbell has never done, IMPROVE DURING THE SEASON! Oh sure Campbell will tease you with "Potential" showing flashes here or there but the bottom line is, that is all he will ever do. He is a mirror image of Kyle Boller, both have all the physical tools that coaches seem to love so much but for whatever reason they can not translate that into on the field production. As long as Snyder continues to try to force Campbell down our throats to prove to everyone that he can evaluate talent, the Redskins will always be a .500 team at best. Campbell=Bust

Posted by: crazyhorse19682003 | December 8, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

lsskinsfan

You dont get better by trading your better players. The problem is Snyder and Cerrato are like us fans. They want to win and go to the superbowl every year so they dont invest in long term solutions like a sound draft of D and O linemen, nope they think make a trade of our good players for some other big name players and the results will be a better team. A lot of us criticize Snyder and Cerrato but some of the post I read tell me that most of the fans think just like them even if they dont think so. After every loss you want to trade or fire someone. rmcpks73 your GM moves will have us being the detroit lions in two years. You can tell fickle fans, their only solution is punish all the players by firing them. How many of you could really draft an NFL player or evaluate his talent before you see him on the field? What expertise to any of us have that make our opinions any better? We are all Monday morning QB's who sway from one extreme to the other every season each week.

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Flounder21

Hey, maybe we can get Demarcus Ware, Albert Haynesworth and Sean Merriman while we are at it. But seriously we need to draft linemen on both sides first then we will see improvement, maybe not as soon as we fans would like but once you get good linmen on both side of the ball you will be surprised how well the other players in the skilled positions play. I am tired of Daniels, Griffin, and those other guys who have been here for several years who dont make tackles and get no sacks while being on IR half the time.

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:40 PM | Report abuse

Why pick on JC when we all know its not about having a great QB just to be a great team. We all know how great Elway was but he never won a SB until he had a running game. We also can name several average QB's like Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer and up until last years playoffs Eli Manning win the big one because they had a great team around them. QB is overrated. Unless you are a Marino, Faults Farve Montana or Elway, guys who were great enough to carry even so,so teams why not allow a good QB like campbell to develope and build a great team around him while he does. He just needs to keep working and we need to beef up both sides of the line like the Giants did.

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Tyler2Durden

So the standard in DC is play like Montana and Elway with a bad line or your out? What happens when you put in Colt Brennen? He will make some plays, he will make some mistakes and once the league studies him on film for one or two games with that line he will be producing the same results as campbell did maybe with a few more int's because he has the mentality of a QB who likes to try to force it in there. You think he will get up from seven sacks by the steelers and make something great happen?

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:51 PM | Report abuse

WHAT KIND OF FANS ARE YOU GUYS? WHEN THEY WERE 4-1 EVERYONE OF YOU WERE ALL ON THE BANDWAGON. NOW THEY ARE LOSING AND YOU ALL WANT TO GUT THE TEAM, TRADE PLAYERS, BRING ON BILL COWHER AND BENCH THE QB. YOU FANS MUST BE FROM SOMEPLACE OTHER THAN DC. YOU ARE JUST FANS BECAUSE YOU HAPPEN TO MOVE TO THE AREA. REAL SKINS FANS DONT DESERT THE SKINS. WIN OR LOSE. HEY, I HERE THE CAPS ARE WINNING, WHY DONT YOU FAKE FAIR WEATHERED SKINS FANS GO AND ROOT FOR THE CAPS.

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

If Campbell had the Patriots O-Line, like his white-version in Matt Cassel, he'd perform much better. He doesn't and won't for some years- Put Colt in because a scrambling quarterback with an arm can make a mediocre o-line look good...By the way, Matt Cassel traded to any other team without a top o-line falls back to current Campbell levels...jus' sayin'...

Posted by: frak | December 8, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

"%50 tear of his triceps"..Jesus, did he get in a chainsaw accident?? ..Thats the kinda sh** that happens when you've got an injured knee and you try to overcompensate with the rest of your body...Also, didn't the white and burgundy uniforms look all soft and cuddly Christmas-ee next to the sleek, shark-skin wicked unis of the Ravens?? Skins looked like lunch waitin' to happen...

Posted by: frak | December 8, 2008 6:36 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: gdavis4 | December 8, 2008 5:56 PM |
WHAT KIND OF FANS ARE YOU GUYS? WHEN THEY WERE 4-1 EVERYONE OF YOU WERE ALL ON THE BANDWAGON. NOW THEY ARE LOSING AND YOU ALL WANT TO GUT THE TEAM, TRADE PLAYERS, BRING ON BILL COWHER AND BENCH THE QB. YOU FANS MUST BE FROM SOMEPLACE OTHER THAN DC. YOU ARE JUST FANS BECAUSE YOU HAPPEN TO MOVE TO THE AREA. REAL SKINS FANS DONT DESERT THE SKINS. WIN OR LOSE. HEY, I HERE THE CAPS ARE WINNING, WHY DONT YOU FAKE FAIR WEATHERED SKINS FANS GO AND ROOT FOR THE CAPS.

True fans:
-Get pissed and don't except excuses for playing like crap.
-Hate FedEx because it will never be RFK
-Can't stand the new candy A's fans that cheer on the Redkins when they need to be yelled at like pathetic bumms
-Show up when the skins stink
-And always are Skin fans even though its painful to watch

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | December 8, 2008 7:10 PM | Report abuse

Jeff Garcia was available not one year out of his multiple Pro Bowl appearances and Gibbs didn't take him, even though he woulda been available cheap...Much as I have love for Coach Bugel, Joe Theismann sure made the Hogs look good readin' and dodgin' bullets...Jeff Garcia and ColT Brennan would do the same...

Posted by: frak | December 8, 2008 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Anyone ever notice how this o-line just let's Campbell get crushed and they do nothing about it. Just run off the field saying "oh, well another sack. Let me find a warm seat on the bench". Two plays in contrast, Campbell gets sacked by R. Lewis and Leonard blitzing from the left. Campbell gets sandwiched! O'line runs to the sideline! Flacco scrambles downfield and gets smacked by L. Fletcher and crew. Ravens O-line runs to Flacco's defense and picks him up. Our over the hill line couldn't care less about their QB. Campbell needs to get in somebody's A$$! Sorry, Buges but you got some wimps!

Posted by: smewalker | December 8, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Anyone ever notice how this o-line just let's Campbell get crushed and they do nothing about it. Just run off the field saying "oh, well another sack. Let me find a warm seat on the bench". Two plays in contrast, Campbell gets sacked by R. Lewis and Leonard blitzing from the left. Campbell gets sandwiched! O'line runs to the sideline! Flacco scrambles downfield and gets smacked by L. Fletcher and crew. Ravens O-line runs to Flacco's defense and picks him up. Our over the hill line couldn't care less about their QB. Campbell needs to get in somebody's A$$! Sorry, Buges but you got some wimps!
****************************************
I've noticed that, too.

Honestly, I think Samuels and Jansen need to go...
Im also tired of Moss and others celebrating while a ball is hitting the turf.

The players need to be called out.

It isnt all on Jason

Posted by: kreator6996 | December 8, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

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