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Skins Cap Update

Now that the dust has settled a bit here and the Skins have slowed down on the roster moves, I wanted to update the cap situation. The Redskins have roughly $7 million available under the cap, according to a league source, which is not much at all, but still more than most imagined possible when they ventured forth setting spending records a week ago.

The Skins will still need about $3 million of that money to sign draft picks, plus fill out the rest of the roster (they have scant LBs, quality OL, or DE under contract, for instance). So even if it's guys like Pete Kendall, Phillip Daniels and Renaldo Wynn coming back, those $1 million deals add up.

Also, teams want to carry at least $3 million or so in cap space into the season to be able to add players when injuries hit the roster, etc. So in reality, we're not talking about much wiggle room. There aren't any huge contracts left to rework, and no more high-priced vets to cut. This is pretty much it.

Finding a way to squeeze in an Elton Brown or Ray Willis won't be easy, but then again, with the Redskins, never say never.

By Jason La Canfora  |  March 6, 2009; 2:02 PM ET
 
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Next: All The Best To Shawn Springs

Comments

1st?

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

Insert Anti-Jason post here

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

mono blogging is fun

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

I feel like Charlton Heston in "the Omega Man"

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Five?

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

They significantly added to the dead cap by releasing Springs and Washington even if there was a net savings. The big number continues to be Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Bojangles

Posted by: Devo2 | March 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

This has to be a record to start a post.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

...and so it ends.

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

The big number continues to be Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:16 PM

But there's value there. Getting rid of him is worth every penny that we're not paying him.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 6, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Judging by the source of one of those posts and the content of the other, I'd say you were still mono-blogging etrod.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Insert Anti-Jason post here

Posted by: Original_etrod | March 6, 2009 2:13 PM |

Okay I will.

"Demetric Evans Moving On"

...Hopefully, we will soon be hearing the same about our fav-orite "beat" writer, JLC.

C'mon, you gotta admit, JReid is way, way, stomp-on-our-face better.

Posted by: hithere1 | March 6, 2009 6:04 AM |

"stomp-on-our-face better"? Geeseth. What's next? I can see it now. The Boys are playing the Skins at FedEx, the Boys' offense and the Skins' defense are on the field and everyone in the stadium is going nuts doing the Haynesworth Stomp!

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

To the "CPortisRun" et al pro Vinnie and Snidely Uber fans: A NON WAPO type supporting their (and our concerns) about the frat-like way the Skins FO is operated:
(from former Cap expert J.I. Halsel)

In short, my opinion is that history and statistical data has proven time & time again that you cannot build a championship team via free agency. The fact of the matter is that the salary cap plays such a pivotal role in team building that the most prudent way to build a team is thru the acquistion of cheap labor, which occurs via the draft. Instead of buying a Haynesworth or a D. Hall, find the next Haynesworth or D. Hall in the draft; they'll cost you significantly less than what they're gonna cost on the free agent market. However, when you operate in a manner that diminishes the value of draft picks, such that you trade them away (ie, the knee jerk reaction to trade a 2nd for a 35-year old Jason Taylor who ultimately only played 1 season for you at a low level), you then become handcuffed from building your team in the most efficient manner possible. Look at the rosters of Indy and Pittsburgh and look at how many of those players are "home grown;" similarly, look at how those teams rarely, if at all, participate in free agency and have shown a willingness to let players leave (ie, any number of LBs who have had success in PIT, or a Cato June, Marcus Washington in Indy) in lieu of paying them significant money to stay with the team. This willingness to let players walk is because they know that they've got an inexpensive young player who can step in and fulfill the role of the player who they're letting go. It's simple economics.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Analysis of Snidely Owl's silliness continued:

The New England Patriots take a different approach to team building; they clearly draft well (ie, flipping a 7th round, obscure QB out of USC named Matt Cassel into a 2009 2nd round pick), but it's how they acquire multiple draft picks and then leverage those picks to acquire even more picks is what is interesting. They clearly value draft picks and have down to a science how to flip those picks to their advantage. In addition to their draft pick management strategy, they approach free agency not looking to land the biggest fish in the free agency pond, but instead to find the best value and more importantly the best fit for their system. You look at their acquisition of a Fred Taylor. He's an established vet, who's gonna be good in the locker room, can still be productive as a tag-team partner with a Laurence Maroney or BenJarvis Green-Ellis. More importantly, he's gonna serve as a great mentor to those 2 young RBs; one thing that alot of fans don't see about the NFL is that coaches don't do alot of technique coaching, they're busy installing the game plan on a week-to-week basis; which then leaves the technique coaching to veteran players. So the coaches scheme, the vets mentor, and the young, inexpensive players develop; together, its proven to be a winning formula.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

peri

'...The big number continues to be Brandon Lloyd...'


And I heard he's not playing this weekend as he hurt himslef while counting his unearned money.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 6, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

In short, my opinion is that history and statistical data has proven time & time again that you cannot build a championship team via free agency.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:23 PM

History and statistical data be damned. Folk wisdom tells us: "There's more than one way to skin a cat." And, if that doesn't sway you, Frank Sinatra tells us:

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.

That's what this is about, periculum. It's not about "history and statistics." This is about a short man standing tall and doing it his way. It's about Don Quixote and Sancho Panza taking finally down that windmill.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 6, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

The final damning conclusion ... YOU CAN'T WIN IN THE NFL signing beasts like HAYNESWORTH along with a HALL. THIS ISN'T the seventies and eighties when there was no salary cap, there were tons of stupid FO types and drafting players wasn't as much a science as it was a CRAP SHOOT. THIS is the NEW MILLENNIUM and I SUBMIT TO YOU ALL and SUNDRY that JOE GIBBS was NOT deprecated nor obsolete, instead HIS OWNER WAS LIVING IN THE PAST and STILL IS:

As far as the Redskins, from a pure salary cap standpoint, if you would've told me that they'd be able to sign D. Hall (without getting a discount from him) and sign Albert Haynesworth, I wouldn't have believed it, and I really wouldn't have believed it if you told me that they were going to keep Jason Taylor at his 8.5M cap amount. The Redskins are a team that is constantly up against the cap; so to be able have Hall, Haynesworth, and Taylor, was unbelievable. Folks around the league knew that Shawn Springs' fate was tied to whether or not a deal with D. Hall got done; so it didn't come as a surprise to me that once the Haynesworth & Hall deals got done, Springs was shown the door, because the $6M savings realized from his release was going to help free up space for the signings. Between the release of Springs, Marcus Washington, and ultimately Jason Taylor, the Skins saved themselves $19M in cap space; not to mention the $10M or so in savings they realized by restructuring the contracts of Randle El, Andre Carter, and Cornelius Griffin. So my old boss, Eric Schaffer, (who by the way doesn't get enough credit for the work that he does under the circumstances; and I'm not just saying that because he's my old boss) definitely has earned his paycheck this off-season in positioning the Skins to be able to make these moves.


But the question then becomes, are these the right moves? When you have glaring needs on offense, I can't agree with spending tons of money to add players to a defense that finished ranked in the Top 5. So last week in my opinion, marked the return of the free-spending Redskins; just when you thought that they were "getting it" last season by remaining on the sidelines during free agency, they come out and sign players who could end up becoming the 2.0 versions of Dana Stubblefield and Deion Sanders.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

“This willingness to let players walk is because they know that they've got an inexpensive young player who can step in and fulfill the role of the player who they're letting go. It's simple economics”

Unfortunately for the skins the simple economics is muddled up by the fact that the young players that they have acquired through the draft are very rarely still on the roster when it would be their time to step up and become a starter…..too many Manuel Whites, Nemo Broughtons, Jim Molinaros, Robert Mccunes, and Taylor Jacobs, and not enough Chris Cooleys, Kedric Golston’s etc….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

periculum

That sir,.....

(INSERT the sound of continous applause mixed in with calls of 'encore,' 'encore,' and wanton stares from attractive female redskins fans asking you to sign their backsides or kiss their babies while their husband redskins fans pat you on the back and offer you drinks, cash for lap dances and champaign room drinks.)


.....was some good posting.

Keep it up.

The force is with you, my son.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 6, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

"still on the roster when it would be their time to step up and become a starter…..too many Manuel Whites, Nemo Broughtons, Jim Molinaros, Robert Mccunes, and Taylor Jacobs, and not enough Chris Cooleys, Kedric Golston’s etc…."

McCune is still with the Ravens. Mark Wilson still with the Raiders.

The problem is they select marginal players they believe will step and become stars. Even though their college history and character gives no such indication. The team of Snidely and Vinnie routinely listen to agents of players (their good-time golf buddies) instead of experts and scouts who know good players.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

The problem is they select marginal players they believe will step and become stars. Even though their college history and character gives no such indication. The team of Snidely and Vinnie routinely listen to agents of players (their good-time golf buddies) instead of experts and scouts who know good players.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:38 PM

Yep.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 6, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

But Heston's Omega Man was not alone, he was supposed to be, I still don't get how they took a great story and batched it 2 times.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 6, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

When a team drafts as many players as the Redskins did last year and only one started, you have to question a) their ability to identify talent and b) their ability to develop talent. It seems to me this team should lean heavily on free agency. They need offensive linemen, linebackers, and a solid defensive end. The wallet shouldn't close until they have made a few more signings for players in those categories - even if it cuts into the money they would spend on draft picks. Call me superstitious, but I don't think the Redskins should keep the 13th draft pick. Trade down for more picks, spread your risk, and take less of a hit on rookie salaries. McIntosh has been a decent pick at linebacker and wasn't a first round pick. There are plenty of solid, but not spectacular, offensive linemen in the lower rounds as well. Take a risk on some players, but don't build next season around draft picks because I just don't think the coaching staff has proven they can develop talent.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

The New England Patriots take a different approach to team building ... In addition to their draft pick management strategy, they approach free agency not looking to land the biggest fish in the free agency pond, but instead to find the best value and more importantly the best fit for their system ... So the coaches scheme, the vets mentor ...
Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:24 PM |

So, how to explain Randy Moss? Granted, he ain't a loud mouth like TO but he is a big fish (first through trade and then FA) and he don't seem like the mentoring type to me. Even the most monkish among us (Hoodie Bill Belichick - what could be more monkish?) can't ignore cleavage.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 6, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Guess that means no to Igor.

Ok, so sign Brown for depth. Keep Daniels. Kendall and fabini can walk, no to Wynn.

Next year, well have a lot more space off the books, and maybe no cap.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 6, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"becoming the 2.0 versions of Dana Stubblefield and Deion Sanders"

Will not happen. Deion is a POS and Haynesworth clearly was the glue to that line in Tennessee. LETS GO SKINS!!!

Posted by: BurgwithaU | March 6, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"The final damning conclusion ... YOU CAN'T WIN IN THE NFL signing beasts like HAYNESWORTH along with a HALL."

How about:

-Reggie White
-Deion Sanders (twice)
-Charles Haley
-Shannon Sharpe
-Simeon Rice
-Marshall Faulk

But I guess none of those guys were proven "beasts" before they were acquired by their Super Bowl winning teams...

Oh, and don't forget:

-Rod Woodson
-Plaxico Burress
-Keyshawn Johnson
-Corey Dillon
-Antonio Pierce
-Sam Madison
-Ken Norton Jr.
-Rodney Harrison

These guys were unknowns too...

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins Cap situation is fine. Always has been and probably always will be.

Every year, the Redskins are able to sign just about anyone that they want to. I don't know why such a big deal is being made about the cap. Whether you are under it by 1 Million or 50 Million it doesn't matter.

Vinny and Dan may not be great talent evaluators, but I'm pretty sure they knwo how to handle their finances better than just about anyone here.

Trust me, if they want Elton Brown or Ray Willis, they will get one of them signed. Evans didn't leave because the Redskins had no cap room (he left because the Redskins decided they did not want to bring him back). Likewise, if the Skins pass on Brown or Willis, it won't be because there wasn't cap room.

Good job reporting the numbers JLC. But as usual, terrible analysis.

Posted by: HokiePaul | March 6, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

+++The Redskins have roughly $7 million available under the cap, according to a league source, which is not much at all, but still more than most imagined possible when they ventured forth setting spending records a week ago.+++--JLC

Dagnabbit,. There goes the skins chance to snag TO.

Gave the 'skins singed either Golston or Monty?

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

"So, how to explain Randy Moss? Granted, he ain't a loud mouth like TO but he is a big fish (first through trade and then FA) and he don't seem like the mentoring type to me.
Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 6, 2009"

The explanation I think lies not in the "strategy" applied but in the position of the player. Apparently, Brandon Lloyd is not an aberration, instead merely an extreme example of a trend among today's wide receiver types. Note the rapid signing of L. Coles a way older vet. Teams continuing to hang on to players like James Thrash.

Wide receiver is a problem position league wide, not just in Detroit, Washington and Dallas. Everyone needs to stop living in the past. Gone are the days of Monk, Clark and Sanders.


Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I am most concerned that there seems to be no interest or urgency to bring in a LB, WHY the hell not...To me it seems to be the biggest glaring need on the entire team at this point. OL is huge, but we addressed it a little and can probably rotate well for the OL or pick up third rounder or what not, but nothing in regards to LB is a big concern, I think. Fletcher is good, but old and really not a playmaker, McIntosh - not so good, even if he has a desk at Redskin park and Blades sucks he is special teamer at best.

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"The fact of the matter is that the salary cap plays such a pivotal role in team building that the most prudent way to build a team is thru the acquistion of cheap labor, which occurs via the draft."

"So last week in my opinion, marked the return of the free-spending Redskins; just when you thought that they were "getting it" last season by remaining on the sidelines during free agency, they come out and sign players who could end up becoming the 2.0 versions of Dana Stubblefield and Deion Sanders."

Yet, LAST season was when they traded 2 draft picks for a 34 year old Jason Taylor, while THIS season their acquisitions have zero impact on the "cheap labor" which this guy argues is necessary to build. Am I missing something? There's a little disconnect between these two statements.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"Gave the 'skins singed either Golston or Monty?

Posted by: TheCork"

No, but their tenders are factored into the salary cap situation.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"How about:

-Reggie White
-Deion Sanders (twice)
-Charles Haley
-Shannon Sharpe
-Simeon Rice
-Marshall Faulk

But I guess none of those guys were proven "beasts" before they were acquired by their Super Bowl winning teams...

Oh, and don't forget:

-Rod Woodson
-Plaxico Burress
-Keyshawn Johnson
-Corey Dillon
-Antonio Pierce
-Sam Madison
-Ken Norton Jr.
-Rodney Harrison"

Times have changed, or wake up and smell the diaper poo. Reggie White et al are the past. You give a great example of the future in Antonio Pierce. Not a "beast" of Reggie White's or Hanynesworth's caliber but certainly the final "piece" of a puzzle built mostly through the draft. In other words London Fletcher.

Who do you think is more valuable to this defense? London Fletcher or Albert Haynesworth? Remember when Fletcher came in the Skins were close to the bottom in defense not ranked 4th.


Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

So Jason Taylor (and I am glad he is gone) was supposed to 8 mil. and after the skins cut him they are only 7 mil under. Doesn’t this mean that before the skins cut Taylor they were 1 mil over the cap and, they essentially had to cut him or someone else to make room for draft picks?

Posted by: Brutus2 | March 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

+++The final damning conclusion ... YOU CAN'T WIN IN THE NFL signing beasts like HAYNESWORTH along with a HALL.+++--Periculum

You are assuming Snyder wants to win a Superbowl, and not continue to move forward on the bottom line.

Look around FeDex, next year. For very Hall and Haynesworth jersey being worn, the wearer has a Brunell, Arch, Lloyd and/or Taylor hanging in the back of his closet.

You want to get Snyder to become serious about winning a Superbowl?

ONLY buy jerseys worn by Redskins who've been to one or are in the Hall of Fame.

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

mhartz - I am guessing that our 3rd, 5th, and 6th picks will be on LBs. (unless we take Orakpo) Maybe one of them becomes a starter, but at least we will have a lot of depth and guys can fight it out for spots.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I really miss Bobby Beathard and even Charlie Casserly...my aunt is a NUN and last night she called the house and said every night she prays for the removal of Vinny, thought that was the funniest thing I heard all week.

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I think this'll mean that with the 13th pick skins will definately go DE because we dont have anybody ready to start at that position currently. Even if andre smith is around they need a de more i have to say, cuz whats the point of getting haynesworth if no one around him can rush the passer. andre carter isnt that good of a pass rusher anymore to begin with so i would say that is our most pressing need. So sign brown or willis, draft a de, and id even trade up with some 2010 picks if theyre sold on orakpo and not worried about his injuries, and then use the other three picks for LB and oline.

Posted by: amsaul | March 6, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Yet, LAST season was when they traded 2 draft picks for a 34 year old Jason Taylor, while THIS season their acquisitions have zero impact on the "cheap labor" which this guy argues is necessary to build. Am I missing something? There's a little disconnect between these two statements.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009"

No, just the timing. JT trade occurred well after the FA period and the draft so wouldn't that be considered a part of the "return to Snidely's impetuous past".

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

++C'mon, you gotta admit, JReid is way, way, stomp-on-our-face better.

Posted by: hithere1+++


Right. Just like everyone LOVES the backup quarterback....

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

yeah I hear you Rypien, but it scares the crap out of me...we always die in the fourth quarter, DL gets tired and then they shred the LB and DB for clock munching drives...we need a stud at LB...I think we will take Cushing to be honest with you. I think they will get one more OL, feel they are set with OL and DL if they bring back Daniels or bring someone in, but I am putting my money on Cushing or Rey M from USC...

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 6, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Come on T.O. my popcorn is ready! If anything you will make it fun around here!

Posted by: JoeyV3 | March 6, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

+++Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.


Posted by: talent_evaluator+++

Sinatra's version was okay, but my favorite was Mike Tyson's

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"Who do you think is more valuable to this defense? London Fletcher or Albert Haynesworth? Remember when Fletcher came in the Skins were close to the bottom in defense not ranked 4th.

Posted by: periculum"

Impossible to say, Haynesworth hasn't played with this defense yet.

And more importantly, the fact that London Fletcher is important to this defense has zero bearing on whether or not Albert Haynesworth will be a valuable addition. Zero. None whatsoever.

By the way, using an over-30, $25 million free agent signing as the basis for your argument against free agency is just plain paradoxical.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

"“I’m a starter now and I’m ready.”—Third-year DE Chris Wilson

The boy is ready, I know this becuase he said so... I can't wait to see him playing as the starter.

I think he can and will get sacks.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 6, 2009"


Great we believe you. Now, first, stop the run then you can start.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"By the way, using an over-30, $25 million free agent signing as the basis for your argument against free agency is just plain paradoxical.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009"

The argument isn't against free agency. Its more about getting the most value and finding a player that fits into what you do.

By that argument Fletcher was the perfect choice (after 3 tries of course ... :) )

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

"No, just the timing. JT trade occurred well after the FA period and the draft so wouldn't that be considered a part of the "return to Snidely's impetuous past".

Posted by: periculum"

That makes sense. So long as Snyder waits until after free agency to pawn off draft picks and/or acquire big names, it's all good. Got it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Tired of all the wussyness... bringing in a TO should not kill your club unless you can't manage or you suck as a QB. Bring in the BEASTS!!!! and bring in the BEAST MASTER... if that's not ZORN then get someone else. I am tired of everyone always being nice. We need a nasty team, guys who want the ball and guys that are a pain in the @ss but find away to win.

I like the additions of Haynesworth and Hall... both nasty ballers... Portis is a nasty baller, get more!

and JLC you have been warning us about that cap since I have been reading the insider... I guess one of these years you will be right... but not this one....

Posted by: JoeyV3 | March 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

+++ I think this'll mean that with the 13th pick skins will definately go DE because we dont have anybody ready to start at that position currently.+++--amsaul

How quick we forget Vinny's explanation for taking THREE receivers in the second round.

Remember, Vinny said he had no choice. His CHART said these were the best guys available when it came time to pick.

With THAT brilliant thinking in mind, Vinny might take another safety, a shortstop, a pass rushing DT, or a Waterboy...

Then he'll shrug his shoulders Marty Feldman those peeps of his and say "What can I say, the CHART made me do it."

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, I am not sure I am jumping on the Chris Wilson bandwagon either...I think I remember a couple of games with RB trucking that kid in the fourth quarter...ouch!

On the other posts, someone stated that TO was at Old Ebbets Grill, yesterday or today...Family member is the GM there and said not one person there has mentioned T.O. being there past couple of days. He worked both shifts and has season tickets, he knows alot of the front office and believes the story was BS.

Posted by: mhartz1 | March 6, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I'm still reeling from the positive post about the Dockery contract from Jasno. My cup done runneth over.

Posted by: jcabana | March 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"The argument isn't against free agency. Its more about getting the most value and finding a player that fits into what you do.

Posted by: periculum"

Which implies, based on your earlier statement that "you can't win" signing "beasts", that it's impossible for Haynesworth to fit into what the Redskins do. Which is, of course, absurd.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Cork,
good point, let me rephrase. they should take a DE with the 13th pick

Posted by: amsaul | March 6, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

brutus

'....So Jason Taylor was supposed to save 8 mil. and after the skins cut him they are only 7 mil under. Doesn’t this mean they were 1 mil over the cap and, they essentially had to cut him or someone else to make room for draft picks...'

Et tu', Brutus?

How dare you backstab our lack of business and business savvy?

You, sir, are not a noble Roman.

I demand that you lend me your ears.

Our Fate, dear sir, lies not in the stars.

But in the clueless whims of a front office that loves big names like fat kids like candy.

So in having to choose between Prince Albert and MC Hammer Taylor, they chose the Fatman and his upfield rush.

And chose to stab the logic in trading two picks for Taylor in the back.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 6, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

ATTENTION:

With this information that we are just under $7M under the cap....

Doesn't that mean we HAD to cut Jason Taylor???

DeAngelo didn't sign until Monday... do you suppose they told him that they would be cutting JT?

And I doubt the punter made a difference...we still needed to be a few million under the cap.

Doesn't this strike anybody as odd?

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 6, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, I didn't see Brutus already brought this up.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 6, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

+++NEWSFLASH:
A good friend of mine works at Old Ebbett's Grill and told me that T.O. was eating there with an unnamed "Redskins official." This is totally thirdhand information but I lost a lot of sleep over it and felt the need to pass it on. Lets just hope he was in the throes of one of his many, many, acid flashbacks when he digested this intel.

I really wish i was sh*****g you guys.

Posted by: SkinsInSichuan++


I just talked to an old buddy who bartends there. It wasn't TO, it was Beyonce.

The Redskins official was Vinny. He WASN'T courting Beyonce, it was vice versa, as she is looking for someone for the title role in her new Biopic, "The Marty Feldman Story."

Posted by: TheCork | March 6, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

CINDY -

Any explanation as to how we would have been OVER cap if we didn't cut JT?

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 6, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse


JLC . . .

What do you know? NOTHING!! Are you not the same "INSIDER" that wrote for weeks leading up to free agency that the Redskins we NOT going to be players/buyers? You know zip about working with the cap!

Posted by: Jeffmc2002 | March 6, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

rypien

In all seriousness, doesn't it all,...

'Any explanation as to how we would have been OVER cap if we didn't cut JT?'

....seem like things are happening with very little forsight and planning?

Scary, ain't it?

It makes the mess on Wall Street look like a well-coordinated military operation.

Only with us, we're attacking ourselves.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I think it's being forgotten that the Dock deal was added after that (plus some punter) and that put's us at the $7mil mark.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | March 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Well let me inject my overall view on this.

Plenty of teams employ the "fiscal responsibility in FA, draft comes first, second, and third" philosophy. Plenty of them also fail. Just look at Detroit and Cincinnati for examples.

The key to that philosophy is NOT refraining from spending money. The key is finding franchise players. Indianapolis employs that philosophy, but they also draft Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dwight Freeney. Guess what? Every one of those guys gets paid accordingly. Same with Pittsburgh. It's not that they're fiscally responsible. It's that their tremendous in finding elite talent. Roethlisberger has a $100 million contract, and Polumalu is paid as one of the top safeties in the league.

When you are NOT a great drafting team, you have to acquire your franchise players from elsewhere. The only drafted Redskin that approaches the realm of those guys since 2000 was Sean Taylor. We've acquired a couple other nice pieces, but nothing close to the elite talents those guys are (maaaaybe Cooley fits there too). This is where free agency and trades come in. They give team's like this a chance to build around a centerpiece. The entire Rams offense of '99 was built around Marshall Faulk. The entire Bucs defense of 2002 was predicated on Simeon Rice's pass-rushing from a 4-man front (I know they had Brooks, Lynch, and Sapp -- but the Tampa-2 doesn't work without a true edge rusher). I don't need to state Reggie White's impact on Green Bay.

Now, where I disagree with Snyder's past free agency binges is that he has either brought in (a) clearly past-their-prime players, or (b) simply mid-level talents for way overvalued contracts. Tying up $120 million on three unproven players (Arch, Lloyd, Carter) and one career 3rd-wheel (Randle El) is far worse than tying up $100 million in a player during his prime that was in MVP discussions. Nobody this dominant and in-their-prime has been brought in via free agency or trade since Stubblefield, and I hate to break it to you, but the complete 180 on a player's career during their prime is a definite anomaly, not a pattern.

Yes, it's a risk. Yes, it's a lot of eggs in one basket. But if you want to be patient and wait for this team to draft the "next Haynesworth", you'd better be prepared to wait a LONG time. It just doesn't happen often, for any team. People complain about us letting our serviceable talents go like Pierce and Clark, but the real problem is that we only draft a true, elite talent once a decade since Beathard left (really, I can only think of Bailey and STaylor fitting into a category of Manning/Harrison/Wayne/Freeney/Sanders since Gibbs left). So, in my opinion, signing Haynesworth is the BEST thing Snyder has done as owner. Bar none (well, barring anything to do with Sean Taylor). At least now we have a franchise player that may be able to carry this team.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Andre Smith article on NFL.com. I doubt this dude will last to 13 even with his combine antics.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f19e64&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | March 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Remember when Fletcher came in the Skins were close to the bottom in defense not ranked 4th.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:02 PM |

Dude. You shouldn't really pay any attention to this "ranked 4th" crapola. A prime example of how meaningless stats like that can be. They blew it out their burgundy and gold shorts when it came to (a) turnovers and b)locking down the oppostion in the 4th quarter, two critical areas where a good defense has to shine. In reality their defense is middle of the pack at best.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 6, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Is there any way we can acquire some more picks in this draft? The Jets are after a veteran qb, what about sending Collins and getting his app. 1.25 mil off the payroll and receiving at best a 4th rounder (more realistically 5th or 6th)? What about getting rid of Betts?

Posted by: brian58 | March 6, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"Which implies, based on your earlier statement that "you can't win" signing "beasts", that it's impossible for Haynesworth to fit into what the Redskins do. Which is, of course, absurd.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009"

Your elaboration on your point only seems to prove the one that the Skins former cap analyst made. That in today's NFL with the salary cap it makes sense to build through the draft filling in with free agents that ***FIT** and that includes salary wise. You can't pay a free agent coming in more than a potential superstar like, well SEAN TAYLOR!?

Sean Taylor, (as was LaRon Landry) was acquired through the draft. London Fletcher was acquired to fill in a major gap in a defense that suddenly found that it was actually great.

Albert Haynesworth was acquired through FA, as was Hall. Both are talented, both also have pasts that involve eroding team chemistry.

What looks better? Acquiring Taylor and Landry (plus McIntosh), then a Fletcher?

Or Haynesworth and Hall, creating such havoc with the salary cap that they may not be able to keep their better young players acquired through the draft ... putting at at risk their ability to sign 1st and 2nd rounders acquired in the draft?

Again its timing. Draft first, FA to fill in. Not the reverse as Danny has apparently now reverted to doing. In today's NFL it rarely if ever works.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"Tired of all the wussyness... bringing in a TO should not kill your club unless you can't manage or you suck as a QB. Bring in the BEASTS!!!! and bring in the BEAST MASTER... if that's not ZORN then get someone else. I am tired of everyone always being nice. We need a nasty team, guys who want the ball and guys that are a pain in the @ss but find away to win."

JoeyV3 | March 6, 2009 3:11 PM"

Right, Joey. Just like how it worked out for Dallas and Philadelphia by bringing in this "BEAST MASTER" known as Terrell Owens.

So tell me exactly how T.O. coming to the Redskins will be good for Campbell given his history with his relationships with his quarterback? We all know that accuracy is not one of Campbell's strong suits, the first time Campbell throws wide or behind T.O., he's going to come to the sidelines and proceed to have his monthly peroid - which I'm sure will be to the betterment of Jason Campbell.

And the Redskins already have pain in the asses that can help them win - everyone's favorite whipping boy - Clinton Portis is one of them.

Yes, even I can admit that.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Haynesworth in the end is just ONE player. You need to be able to field (pay) a team to make the playoffs.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"You can't pay a free agent coming in more than a potential superstar like, well SEAN TAYLOR!?"

Unless I'm mistaken:

(1) Sean Taylor is no longer on the roster

(2) Nobody currently on the roster comes remotely close to replicating the talent and ability Sean Taylor had (and please, please, please don't compare Landry to Taylor. It isn't fair to Landry).

(3) Only one other player in the last 20 years has been drafted by the Redskins that replicates either Sean Taylor or Albert Haynesworth (Champ Bailey).

So once again, if you're waiting for the next Sean Taylor to be drafted by the Redskins, I hope you're comfortable repeating this mantra for a while.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth in the end is just ONE player. You need to be able to field (pay) a team to make the playoffs.

Posted by: periculum"

And again, unless I'm mistaken, signing Haynesworth has not forced the Redskins to cut the other 40+ guys currently under contract. So you're complaining about nothing.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Thank god for Fandango.com!


Watchmen tickets purchased way in advance, dinner reserved, drinks at the bar later on---Mistamoe is getting a life.

Now, if I can only leave without the wife figuring out what's going on.......

Seeya!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 6, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"Or Haynesworth and Hall, creating such havoc with the salary cap that they may not be able to keep their better young players acquired through the draft ..."

So you're entire argument is based on a hypothetical that hasn't happened, nor is likely to happen at any point during these contracts.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"So tell me exactly how T.O. coming to the Redskins will be good for Campbell given his history with his relationships with his quarterback? We all know that accuracy is not one of Campbell's strong suits, the first time Campbell throws wide or behind T.O., he's going to come to the sidelines and proceed to have his monthly peroid - which I'm sure will be to the betterment of Jason Campbell."

Who cares, Campbell can't handle it he should be gone. We are coddling football players here people! Get real!

Posted by: JoeyV3 | March 6, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Good old number 9 would have hung T.O. out to dry if he pulled such a stunt by sending him over the middle.

Posted by: JoeyV3 | March 6, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

"So you're entire argument is based on a hypothetical that hasn't happened, nor is likely to happen at any point during these contracts.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009"

Hmmm let's see, they literally may have no offensive tackles to speak of next year. Samuels is coming off his second run on the IR. Jensen is done. Heyer is not a starter. They 'cut' a staring linebacker who almost fits your "definition" of an impact player (Washington) and they haven't replaced him. McIntosh does not come close and he is 1 play away from the IR. They can't even sign one of last year's starting defensive ends (Demetric Evans).

Hmmm I think your arguments do not hold water.

Siging Haynesworth has placed them in deep trouble. They may not have an offensive line that is able to run the ball nor protect the QB. If they choose OL in the draft their linebacking will be more than a little suspect but I think it could hold up for a year. Unless they can convert some of their smallish DE's into line backers. They will have to use their wealth of defensive tackles at end in order to stop the run.

They don't have a field goal kicker. They don't really have a punt returner. They are still short a starting wide receiver or two. Their running back is rapidly aging and his ability to make a difference should continue its general downward spiral next year. Their quarterback still needs seasoning as a starter.

But they have Haynesworth.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

(3) Only one other player in the last 20 years has been drafted by the Redskins that replicates either Sean Taylor or Albert Haynesworth (Champ Bailey).

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Aren't you overlooking Chris Samuels?

Posted by: frediefritz | March 6, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

...In reality their defense is middle of the pack at best.


Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 6, 2009 3:46 PM

Sorry, Anton, you can't make your opinion into reality. The defense was ranked #4, and that's all the more impressive when you consider the Detroit Lions scored more points than the Skins did last year.

By contrast, the Lions had the #32 ranked defense... which is normally what happens when the offense isn't holding the ball long enough and isn't scoring.

The Detroit Lions finished 0-16. The Skins finished 8-8. I think that #4 rated defense had something to do with that.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 6, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

periculum,

Nothing you said in your last post either supports your argument or refutes mine. Your argument was that the signing of Haynesworth may prevent the team from "keep(ing) their better young players acquired through the draft."

You just listed off 3 players older than 30 (Washington, Samuels, Jansen), 1 player who is 29 and wasn't let go because of monetary reasons (Evans), and a young high draft pick that's even a question mark to make it long-term (McIntosh). All this does is support my points that (A) none of the youngsters are in question due to Haynesworth, (B) The Skins haven't drafted particularly well, and (C) nothing about these signings prevents the team from building through the draft, whatsoever.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"Aren't you overlooking Chris Samuels?

Posted by: frediefritz"

I view him more on the level of Chris Cooley, as in perennial pro-bowler, but would not be historically elite.

But I can add him to that list. 3 players in 20 years is not much better.

Posted by: psps23 | March 6, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

We should have drafted Raji @ #13... signed medium talent FA OL....

Posted by: oldnova | March 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

The difference between T.O. and his other QBs is that were shaped and formed already.

JC17 is still young and needs to be molded. I think T.O. can help him. From his Offseason regimen to hrowing to him in the offseason. All the way to getting some emotion in the dude.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 6, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

This Old Ebbitt talk was on Extremeskins yesterday. I guess TO has become a regular already.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?t=282272

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 6, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

http://www.thehogs.net/content/index.php?id=1178

When JLC posts something about the Salary Cap it's NEVER right!

He should do sports for the National Inquirer!

Posted by: filmchis | March 6, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

LH - I would have never thought as you as one who visits ES.......

The shame...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 6, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"Haynesworth in the end is just ONE player. You need to be able to field (pay) a team to make the playoffs.

Posted by: periculum"

-----


Yeah, He's ONE player that takes 2-3 guys to block on EVERY play.

Posted by: filmchis | March 6, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

We still have Kedrick Golston to sign plus were bringing in Tackles to visit Ashburn,not to mention Khary Campbell.How can they pull it off and still sign draft picks?Golston is perhaps our best tackle before signing AH,certainly dont want to lose him.How were they going to keep Jason taylor?We still need help at linebacker as well.I'm full of questions as to how they can do all this with 7million$.

Posted by: mark65 | March 6, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

We still have Kedrick Golston to sign plus were bringing in Tackles to visit Ashburn,not to mention Khary Campbell.How can they pull it off and still sign draft picks?Golston is perhaps our best tackle before signing AH,certainly dont want to lose him.How were they going to keep Jason taylor?We still need help at linebacker as well.I'm full of questions as to how they can do all this with 7million$.

-------


1. JLC doesn't know what he's talking about , he's always wrong about the salary cap numbers and it potential flexibilities.

2. Goltson and Montgomery have been tendered offers as Restricted Free Agents. So there cap numbers have already been set.(temporarily)

Posted by: filmchis | March 6, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't visit ES - ever. The above being the exception. I googled TO to see if there was anything to support talk about him being in DC and up that appeared. So I peeked.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 6, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Ok, after reading that thread, I am hyped.

If no one wants to join my bandwagon, I will be a bandwagon of one.

Mind you, I only want him one year for the Vet. Min. or somewhere close to it (Under $2Mil).....

I think since T.O. has been bounced so much, his next destination will be extremely different.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 6, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I think since T.O. has been bounced so much, his next destination will be extremely different.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 6, 2009 4:48 PM

This is the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. TO is a classic example of narcissistic personality disorder. At this point, you would have to be as crazy as TO is to sign him. You heard it hear first (well maybe not considering who we're discussing): It is going to end badly for TO.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 6, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

beep & beep

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 6, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

4th - good luck with your two man crusade (you and Truth?)

As to the cap - why does everyone worry about the cap as if it's their own household budget? These guys always figure out a way to get what they want...it's the only thing they seem to do well...they do mortgage the future, of course, but they always beat the cap.

NOTE: They figure out a way to get what they WANT - not necesarily what they need.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 6, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

All this does is support my points that (A) none of the youngsters are in question due to Haynesworth,

They haven't attempted to resign 1st rounders Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell, not to mention Montgomery and Golston.

They tendered them. What happens when they have to? Will they be able to?

(B) The Skins haven't drafted particularly well,
Yes.

and (C) nothing about these signings prevents the team from building through the draft, whatsoever.

I don't agree. It is possible this could constrain the team to trade down either for next year's picks or this years because they wouldn't be able to afford a 1st round pick.

Posted by: periculum | March 6, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

My impression of the draft is that success is far less cut and dried than it might seem. Even the most successful clubs have year when most of their choices don't work out very well. Same thing with free agents; sometimes you score, sometimes you whiff.

Now I'm the one who suggested that Vinny's approach to the draft should be to break into Scott Pioli's office and steal his list. But in reality, Pioli and Belichick have had plenty of whiffs, too. And Vinny has had a few surprising successes.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 6, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Why is everyone fretting about the cap the skins are going to do what they always do and sign a player for the minimum in the first year with gauranted money in the following years then restructure if they need to. As far as our Oline quit hating on samuels hes still one of the elite LTs in the league and dockery will make him better and finding RT and veteran depth shouldn't be that difficult if the FO doesnt screw it up

Posted by: DG28 | March 6, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Why cant JLC just admit straightway that Eric Schaffer is a magnificent capologist or admit that the Redskins continually find cap space because they are actually GOOD at it! They come into free agency with the one of the least amounts of cap space yet sign the best player. That's cap creativity that other teams don't seem to have or players just love to play for the Skins.

Posted by: tramellcanady | March 6, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

It seems like we've made our squad better and younger already, and have the opportunity to land a pretty good tackle, end, or linebacker at pick 13. There is a good chance we will have a higher percentage of draft picks on the field this year, too.

I'm glad Sinclair is back on the roster. He only has 2 career tackles, but they were both on Hester punt returns. He could turn out to be a good depth guy at linebacker.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 7, 2009 5:03 AM | Report abuse

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