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Skins Expected to Go After Dockery

Jason Reid and Jason La Canfora report:

The Redskins have expressed interest in former Skins guard Derrick Dockery, who was released today by the Buffalo Bills, and, according to league sources, are expected to pursue him this weekend.

By Cindy Boren  |  February 26, 2009; 1:02 PM ET
 
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Next: Ray Willis Is Another Free Agent Target

Comments

I think signing Dockery would be a good move ... for the right price. However, I would still try to find a way to get both a starting left tackle in the 1st round and Alex Mack. They desperately need a real tackle as I suspect Samuels may now have eroded from a pro bowl left tackle to a pro bowl right tackle. But Mack could be the center and lynch pin for this line for years to come.

LT (1st rounder) LG Dockery
Heyer Rhinehart
RT Samuels RG Thomas
Jensen Kendall
C Mack
Rabach

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Give me Jason Brown, Antonio Smith/Chris Canty, Nate Washington, and Andre Smith.

Use picks 3, 5, 6 on Guards/DTs.

Call it a night.

We can hide Randy Thomas and our LG's ineptitude if they are sandwiched between Samuels, Brown, and Smith.

Updated.... oh boy on Dockery.. here we go...

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

per,
Can I ask how we will get a LT at 13 and then get Mack, when we don't have a pick until the 3rd round.

Mack will be gone late 1st early second.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

beep beep...stretch those hammies and stay nimble.

Posted by: Cindy Boren

LMAO! Good one Cyn

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 26, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Derrick Dockery = Smoot 2.0

Chases money, underperforms, gets cut, comes back to his happy place.

Good move here. Just not for too much money.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Thanks John - perhaps I should have read the paper last night instead of watching Top Chef!

Posted by: suzannepdc | February 26, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Dockery is not gonna get anywhere near his 7 million a year salary he signed with buffaloe for so i think he is in line for about 4-5 mil range now which is right in line with what the skins need to do(value free agents), plus hes an upgrade over thomas even though he has been a warrior for us but age has caught up with him....

Posted by: hillb03 | February 26, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

If we cut Springs and Taylor, then fine get Dockery.

We are not the Bucs, a zillion dollars under cap.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

You can not compare Dockery to Smoooot.

Smoot was and is all talk. Dockery hasn't spoken since he was drafted. Started since a rookie. And is still young.

A lineman's shelf life is longer than a skinny CB who can't tackle....

Posted by: RightWay | February 26, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

If we cut Springs and Taylor, then fine get Dockery.

We are not the Bucs, a zillion dollars under cap.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:16 PM

Wehave PLENTY of cap room buddy to sign atleast 3 Free agents and our rookies. We are at around $15Mil under the cap. Plenty.

Posted by: RightWay | February 26, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Dockery is not young. He will be 29 kickoff weekend.

No point in spending big money on a guy wed have to replace in 3 years anyway.

MAYBE a 3 year, $12M deal.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Smoot was a very good player for us for a number of years, including during his second stint. Yea, he's not very good now, but he was a good (re)pick-up.

Comparing Dock to Smoot was a good thing.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, if we got quality FAs and didn't try to land Albert.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

SIGNING HAYNESWORTH WOULD SINK OUR SHIP. CHARACTER AND DURABILITY ISSUES. WOULD CONSUME ALL OR MOST OF OUR CAP SPACE. WE HAVE SEVERAL HOLES TO FILL. WE SHOULD NOT BET THE FARM ON HAYNESWORTH! WE NEED O-LINEMAN THAT CAN CREATE HOLES FOR THE RUNING GAME AND PASS PROTECT. ALBERT HAYNESWORTH WON'T WIN YOU GAMES IF YOUR OFFENSE IS ONLY SCORING 12 POINTS A GAME!

Posted by: all_star_0013 | February 26, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

This one's a no-brainer. GET HIM

Posted by: ThisGuy | February 26, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

How old is Dock?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Is Alex Karras a free agent this year?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

29? Man my computer is running about as fast as James Thrash right now... OH!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

What does it benefit the skins to restructure contracts? All it's doing is moving cap space (signing bonus spread among years of contract instead of salary) from this year to future (years). It only fixes things, and its limited, for THIS year. I would like to know of the current amount the skins have tied up against the cap, HOW MUCH of this is DEAD MONEY and/or BONUS money on aging players? Part of our cap problem now is we can't cut these underperforming players because whether we cut them or not, they'll count against the cap because of an earlier restructuring they did in some previous year to save cap space in THAT year. We just keep repeating the cycle every year. :(

Posted by: bamaboy1 | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

29? Man my computer is running about as fast as James Thrash right now... OH!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

And double moving like C Los... OH!!!

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Hey all.
To be fair to Jasno, my recollection from the Derrick Dockery Experience was not that he was worth the 7/$49M contract that he got from BUF, but that they should have re-signed him at the beginning of that year (I assume for 7/$40M or something "more reasonable" like that)... much like he has stated for Campbell and Rogers.
It doesn't seem to me that -- if his performance Up Here was anything like his performance at BUF -- that we'd be happy with him at 7/$40M. Maybe at 7/$Ham Sandwich...
I can easily see bringing him back, not too concerned about the exact salary -- if Buges is interested in continuing to work with him, then that's the only answer I need.

Posted by: daggar | February 26, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Oh whatever

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I have to admit, I'm getting very little accomplished today at work. Keep up the good work Cindy et al.

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

About Pat White -- everyone seemed to agree he threw well enough at the combine to earn a spot on the QB list. But the thing that surprised me was he turned out not to be that fast. At WVU he often seemed like the fastest player on the field, but at Indy, nope. Maybe he was dogging a little to avoid a WR tag.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 26, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

bamaboy,

Unless there is a new deal worked out before next season, this is the last year with a salary cap. I think the skins are counting on this - going forward there is no cap, so restructure everyone - it doesn't cost any more money, just frees up cap space. Next year with no cap, they can dump all the dead weight (I'm looking at you Jansen, Thomas, Randle-El) with no impact.

Posted by: Snydersucks | February 26, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Estimates of 12-14M in currently available cap space appear to be accurate.

http://www.thewarpath.net/salary-cap-central/27715-current-redskins-salary-cap-status-2009-a.html

These estimates take into account the projected increase in the cap to 127M. It also assumes we sign Hall, AH, rookies and our own key free agents. After doing all that we still are approximately 2M under. And if we are able to sign Hall, Springs will almost surely be cut saving another 6M and leaving us 8M under the cap. Which is plenty of room to go after Dockery and Canty.

We have enough cap room to do all this and more.

Posted by: wsncskinsfan | February 26, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Love to get Dock back. He'd "buy" us 4-5 years at the LG position, so we can focus on getting a tackle and another guard in this draft, maybe next draft. With Kendall in his mid/upper 30s, he has maybe one year left. We can't address every O-line position in one offseason, so Dock really gets us some needed relief. Remember, we still need D-line and LB...and we only have 4 picks this year.

Posted by: Section104 | February 26, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

What a joke! Let him go, and bring him back... a la Smoot!

This team is a joke.

Our most pressing need is at QB. We need to cut Campbell and deal for Cassel.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

My job is to keep you distracted at yours, TWISI!

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

sign dockery asap. then draft his brother!!! bring back the big guy!!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | February 26, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

O-Line possibilities: Jeff Saturday, Marvel Smith, Mark Tauscher, Stacy Andrews

D-Line possibles: La'Roi Glover, Darwin Walker, Rocky Bernard, Jovan Haye, Shaun Cody and Tank Johnson - Who I think would be interesting and cheap

DE: - Chris Canty, Chauncey Davis, Igor Olshansky

LB - Michael Boley, Angelo Crowell, Keith Brooking, Shantee Orr and Dontarrius Thomas

Thoughts??

Posted by: mhartz1 | February 26, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

+++First thing Dock should do is sign with the Redskins

Posted by: BeantownGreg

First let's make a move for Coles

Posted by: jiza32

Smoot came home again. Hope Dock does too.

Posted by: RITCA +++

Hey it’s FOOTBALL, not a casting sesion for “Blues Bothers III” (“Hey we’re getting the Band back together…”)

That said....

Posted by: TheCork | February 26, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Plus Dockerty on that list above and I think he would be good for us and give us time to completely rebuild the line and give us the ability to draft Orakpo or Everett...

Posted by: mhartz1 | February 26, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

My job is to keep you distracted at yours, TWISI!

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 1:33 PM


Cindy,

You guys need to write a piece about how bad Jason Campbell is at quarterback. Just 13 touchdowns in 16 games last year. The guy is a joke. We need to get a ground swell of support to cut him, otherwise we will have yet another mediocre season.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

bring LaVAR out of retirement, sign coles, LT29, dockery, bring back EVERYONE!!!!!!!

party like its 2001

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 26, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

"QB is our most pressing need", are you friggin serious? If given more time JC can get the job done, no he doesn't have the quickest release, he is not B.Farve etc. who is going to make a lot happen on his own, but he is good enough to win games if he has a little more time and the receivers have time to run longer more complex routes, our MOST PRESSING NEED IS O LINE, O LINE, O LINE, (get Dockery if possible, draft Smith or other OT that's at 13, then address DL, and then OLB!
E

Posted by: 72Redskins | February 26, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

party like its 2001

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 26, 2009 1:42 PM

Exactly...no Jason Campbell

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

No JLC not JC

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

guzu, go hold your breath till you pass out.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Estimates of 12-14M in currently available cap space appear to be accurate.

http://www.thewarpath.net/salary-cap-central/27715-current-redskins-salary-cap-status-2009-a.html

These estimates take into account the projected increase in the cap to 127M. It also assumes we sign Hall, AH, rookies and our own key free agents. After doing all that we still are approximately 2M under. And if we are able to sign Hall, Springs will almost surely be cut saving another 6M and leaving us 8M under the cap. Which is plenty of room to go after Dockery and Canty.

We have enough cap room to do all this and more.


Posted by: wsncskinsfan | February 26, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

The above analysis assumes that Haynesworth will only count $6 mill against the 2009 cap. I have heard that he will get something like $30+ guaranteed, with $15 mill per year. How does that get structured to only count $6 against the cap?

Posted by: frediefritz | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

+++The Redskins have expressed interest in former Skins guard Derrick Dockery, who was released today by the Buffalo Bills, and, according to league sources, are expected to pursue him this weekend.+++THE JASONS

The Irony of the Dockery move is it would be the opposite of the Stubbyfield Disaster for the 'skins.

The SKINS overpaid for him from SF, he wasn't worth what they paid, and he went back to SF for less money and resuming a fine career.

So, Dock gets overpaid for Buff for his Big Money contract, and he should return to DC for less and have a fine career...

It solves one interior line issue...and is a good sign a rebuild of the OL has priority.

If they squander $100 mil gambling on Haynesworth, this team is doomed not to learn from past mistakes.

Pick up a DE for less--Canty if he's reasonable. THEN see if there's a decent LB out there, or give JT an incentive laden contract to play LB on most downs, hand-in-the-dirt on pass plays.

I'd like to see them consider Brooks from TB...

Posted by: TheCork | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Sports Guru obviously has never played or watched real football, just Tecmo Super Bowl with Joe Montana at the helm.

With Tom Brady at the helm last year, we are still only 9-7, 10-6 maybe.

FOOTBALL IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES.

PERIOD.

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

"QB is our most pressing need", are you friggin serious? If given more time JC can get the job done, no he doesn't have the quickest release, he is not B.Farve etc. who is going to make a lot happen on his own, but he is good enough to win games if he has a little more time and the receivers have time to run longer more complex routes, our MOST PRESSING NEED IS O LINE, O LINE, O LINE, (get Dockery if possible, draft Smith or other OT that's at 13, then address DL, and then OLB!
E

Posted by: 72Redskins | February 26, 2009 1:42 PM

He had plenty of time. He was sacked, because he holds the ball too long and stares down his first receiver or dumps off to his hot in a hurry.

Even Joe Bugel on George Michael's Monday interview after the last game said that 4 or 5 seconds of pocket time to throw the ball is an eternity. He said Campbell holds the ball too long, and for everyone to stop blaming his offensive line.

This is the truth.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

parcells was quoted as saying FA is a 50-50 gamble, obviously this regime will bnever learn the best we can do is wish for fat albert to be in the good 50.

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 26, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

The above analysis assumes that Haynesworth will only count $6 mill against the 2009 cap. I have heard that he will get something like $30+ guaranteed, with $15 mill per year. How does that get structured to only count $6 against the cap?

Posted by: frediefritz | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM |

They can do different things with bonuses, they can add more guaranteed and less salary.

There is no body better at this then Snyder.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 26, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

These estimates take into account the projected increase in the cap to 127M. It also assumes we sign Hall, AH, rookies and our own key free agents. After doing all that we still are approximately 2M under. And if we are able to sign Hall, Springs will almost surely be cut saving another 6M and leaving us 8M under the cap. Which is plenty of room to go after Dockery and Canty.

We have enough cap room to do all this and more.

Posted by: wsncskinsfan

---

That's almost too unbelievable to believe (capt obvious, but not really?)

That also assumes we re-sign Pete Kendall for $1.5 million, which I assume will not happen if we land Derrick Dockery.

So how about it? Haynesworth, Hall, Canty, Dockery, with a little cap room left over? Maybe throw in a little Nate Washington or Devery Henderson? Draft Andre Smith?

I must be dreaming.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"The Redskins have expressed interest in former Skins guard Derrick Dockery, who was released today by the Buffalo Bills, and, according to league sources, are expected to pursue him this weekend. "

BRILLIANT REPORTING!!! They get paid for stating the obvious?

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Over the past couple days, it has been interesting to note that a new person responds to Sports_Guru everyday, never the same person. Also, most of the "regulars" tend to ignore him at this point. I think it is clear that no one will change his mind about Campbell, so ignoring him at this point is probably the best idea.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | February 26, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Grab Dock after midnight, forget about Kendall altogether. The guy will be 36 in July and needed every Wednesday off because of knee issues.

Dump Daniels, Springs and any other injury prone veteran 35 and over. It's time to be smart this time around and keep all FA signings to guys under 30.

Hey Cindy.. what's the latest on the trade Carlos Rogers for a draft pick talk? If the Skins resign Hall I think it's a good move.

Posted by: elfreako | February 26, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

JT is not going to be an everydown SLB. Are you serious? Hes a pash rusher, thats it. Too small to stop the run as a DE and you suggest he starts to play SLB at this stage of his career? He'll be a situational pass rusher, an extremely expensive and overpaid one, but thats what he'll be.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

PSP that would be ok with me, I dont know about the receiver, but I dont know much about either one...doesnt D. henderson drop the ball alot

Posted by: mhartz1 | February 26, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

He will get 30M guaranteed as a signing bonus which will get spread out over the life of the contract (probably 6 or 7 years). The rest of the contract will be backloaded meaning he will have small base salaries over the first 2 or 3 years and large base salaries during the later years. They might even throw in some roster bonuses which don't count as signing bonuses. Chances are he will never see the majority of the 100M that is being talked about. The 15M per year is an average not necessarily the amount that counts against the cap.

Posted by: wsncskinsfan | February 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

QBs with more TDS than Jason Campbell last year:


Drew Brees NO 34
Philip Rivers SD 34
Kurt Warner ARI 30
Aaron Rodgers GB 28
Peyton Manning IND 27
Tony Romo DAL 26
Jay Cutler DEN 25
Donovan McNabb PHI 23
Brett Favre NYJ 22
Matt Cassel NE 21
Eli Manning NYG 21
Chad Pennington MIA 19
Kyle Orton CHI 18
Tyler Thigpen KC 18
Roethlisberger PIT 17
Matt Ryan ATL 16
Jake Delhomme CAR 15
David Garrard JAC 15
Matt Schaub HOU 15
Joe Flacco BAL 14
Jason Campbell WAS 13

Some of these guys played less than 16 games...need I say more?

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

"Too small to stop the run as a DE and you suggest he starts to play SLB at this stage of his career?"

I'm pretty sure SLBs are smaller than defensive ends. Marcus Washington weighs 244, and he's big for a SLB.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Trading Rogers is still a possibility, elfreako, but they gotta re-sign Hall first and some think that isn't necessarily a slam dunk.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Well, it's clear that either sports guru is trying to be obnoxious or is an idiot...

Posted by: mrizzle | February 26, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Cyn I have to disagree with you on this one. If they sign Hall I say they let Springs go and keep Rogers.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 26, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Dockery is 7 years younger than Kendall and has no history of injuries...don't think he missed a start in his 4 years ago. Since he's already gotten the big money with his signing bonus with Buffalo 2 years ago, he's probably be more receptive to a cap friendly 3-4 year deal with a $4-5M signing bonus. That at least solves our LG problem with a known commodity who can come and start right away without using a draft pick or breaking the bank. Not to mention he's one of Bugel's kind of guys.

Posted by: wizfan89 | February 26, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I am all for the Dockery signing. Lets get him and Tauscher from Green Bay, Angelo Crowell, resign Evans and Hall,and draft the best available payer or trade down for additional picks.

Posted by: Redskins001 | February 26, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

DOCKERY SHOULD SIGN FOR THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. HE WASN'T THAT GOOD WHEN THE SKINS LET HIM GO. IF THEY PAY A LARGE SUM FOR DOCKERY, THEY ARE THE DUMBA$$ES WE ALL THINK THEY ARE ANYWAY.

Posted by: keedrow | February 26, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

I thought that JT played some OLB when he was in Miami.

Posted by: Cavalier83 | February 26, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Why did Buffalo release Dock? Does Dockery now stink like a 48 year-old running back?

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | February 26, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

I agree that if we sign Hall we should cut Springs rather that trade Rogers. The cap savings of 6M is the biggest reason. Not to mention the age factor also.

Posted by: wsncskinsfan | February 26, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Let's bring back Dockery and P. Ramsey

Posted by: slipperyrichard | February 26, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Whoa, JM. I didn't say I'd trade Rogers, I said it was a possibility just purely on the basis of being possible. I'd say that getting rid of Springs and keeping Rogers and Hall is very possible. And preferable, I'd think.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Where are all the people who didn't want to sign him and give him all that money when he went to the bills.

Please raise your hands.

And now yall want him.....

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

FOOTBALL IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES.
As long as by "trenches", you mean "end zone".

Why did Buffalo release Dock?
Much like we bemoan paying Jansen for 6.5 sacks, Buffalo "couldn't see paying $49M for 8.5 sacks"!

Posted by: daggar | February 26, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

It never ceases to amaze me how many people continue to advise that the Skins release Springs...

Post after post, year after year. It's NOT happening. When the guy is healthy he produces and Coach Gray is his number one fan. I know the knock is that it's basically rolling a dice every week on whether he is going to play (though if you ask him he is NEVER missing a game) but the staff and front office love the guy especially with his ability to play safety.

Come up with some other scenario because Springs will be a Redskin AGAIN for one more season. You are wasting your time coming up with scenarios to free money that include the release of Springs..

Posted by: Skins211 | February 26, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

please please please cut springs!!!!! i can't bear to see him get kicked in the shin in practice again and miss a month.

Posted by: drewkinnear | February 26, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

My bad Cyn. I should have said I disagree with the FO if that is what they are thinking.

1skinfan I was one that said the Skins should let him walk. I have no problem with the team bringing him back at the right price. No more than 4 Mil a year for 3-4 years.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | February 26, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

I don't believe that Dockery was worth the money that buffalo gave him thats why he will come back at a cheaper price. If not, then we don't need him. I would be happier if they work on the o - Line in free agency and d - line in the draft. Please no Haynesworthless. This guy would be our next Dan Wilkinson.

Posted by: Redskins001 | February 26, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

I think that's about right, JM.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

sports_guru

'....Some of these guys played less than 16 games...need I say more?...'


Some of those guys played in an offensive system suited to what they do best, too.

Some of them played behind decent o-lines.

Some of them had a monster running game as support.

Some of them had coaches who changed what they called to fit what they do.

Some of us think that, yes, Campbell doesn't throw a touch pass well.

But put him in the shot gun more often, fix the right tackle situation, use Thomas/Davis better as options to the opposite side of the field so Cooley/Moss don't get double-covered, and Campbell might be more efficient than what he is.

The improvement of Jason Campbell stands as the most important issue facing the redskins franchise. If he's good, we're good.

But if he's bad, we got to go out and find our next new savior.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

By the way, there's a hearing tomorrow Miami to determine whether the guys accused of killing Sean Taylor stand trial March 9.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

1 QB threw fewer picks than Jason Campbell.
For those asking for Campbell to go - tell me who you want in his place. And you have to name names because Campbell has shown some ability so saying "anybody" is the kinda response you would hear from a Cowboy/Philly fan.
In fact, the times the skins have been burned in Free Agency is all the more reason to continue to roll happily with JC.... The Grass is Not Always Greener.

Posted by: MonkMossMann | February 26, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I would like to see them keep Springs rather than Rogers. He simply is a better player but not at 8M a year. Unless the FO restructure his contract I say cut him.

Posted by: wsncskinsfan | February 26, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

1skinsfan,

I was one of those guys and now I want him back. I'd have been livid if the skins had matched or out bid a $49 mil contract for him. that's too much. But he's a good player and worth pursuing at the right proice.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 26, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Another question.

why should the skins not get Hanyworth...and others

Its so simple to me.

Does this player improve our team.

YES or NO

Simple
---------------------------------
Another question.

would you guys want haynworht if he wanted only 1 million?

--------------------------------------
why are we worried about the skins money. They find a way every year to get or keep or do whatever they need to do with free agents and the cap.

Example: if we want canty, albert, dockery, and more the skins will get them.

or we can go in like last year and don't do much to improve the team and finish 8-8
------------------------------------------

All we have to do is compare our team vs. the NFC

Manning, Jacobs, plex
Mcnabb, Westbrook, mcnabb
D-Ware, Romo, TO, Marrion Barber

the difference is they have better players for the most part.

When did upgrading become a problem.

If you can get the best DT in the game why would you not try at least?

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Dump Portis and Todd Collins with him. Bring back Marcus Mason, & we can go with who we've got. I agree getting Dockery back too. Look at all the havoc the Steelers & Ravens DL's cause. Remember how pathetic Romo looked getting beat around? Thats what we need on a regular basis.

Posted by: mntb316 | February 26, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

sports_guru

'....Some of these guys played less than 16 games...need I say more?...'


Some of those guys played in an offensive system suited to what they do best, too.

Some of them played behind decent o-lines.

Some of them had a monster running game as support.

Some of them had coaches who changed what they called to fit what they do.

Some of us think that, yes, Campbell doesn't throw a touch pass well.

But put him in the shot gun more often, fix the right tackle situation, use Thomas/Davis better as options to the opposite side of the field so Cooley/Moss don't get double-covered, and Campbell might be more efficient than what he is.

The improvement of Jason Campbell stands as the most important issue facing the redskins franchise. If he's good, we're good.

But if he's bad, we got to go out and find our next new savior.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 2:12 PM

Why is everyone willing to make a litany of excuses for Jason Campbell? What is the connection here? If this was an underperforming player at any other position, you would say cut/bench him, but he's the QB...THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION.

We cannot continue to say that he should be forgiven for being unable to overcome deficiencies.

If our QB needs perfect conditions to perform, then he is MEDIOCRE, and we will never get to the next level with a QB that has to be coddled and hand held!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Cindy,
You guys need to write a piece about how bad Jason Campbell is at quarterback. Just 13 touchdowns in 16 games last year. The guy is a joke. We need to get a ground swell of support to cut him, otherwise we will have yet another mediocre season.
Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 1:41 PM
Dude, why are you even back here? Did you get kicked out of the Scout dot com forums again? I thought you were a big shot and were having lunch with Danny and Vinny yesterday….couldn’t you convince them? You are the worst broken record I have ever seen up here. Now go away troll.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 26, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Original_etrod

How is it too much if you have the money..

don't get me wront I don't agree with giving archuleta that much or even haynworth 100 mill

but I ask myself one question. Can these players help or improve my team.

Also I look at the other teams in the NFC we play 2 times.
-----------------------------------------
Now lets say we had Dockery and paid him that money.......last year how would we have looked.

Good money dosen't matter when it comes to winning.

Would you take a Suber Bowl or not paying someone a little bit more.
Again don't get me wront I'm not saying go over board.

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

The Bills also cut Robert Royal. We can bring him back and cut Fred Davis. Now, when are the Giants going to cut Pierce?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

would you guys want haynworht if he wanted only 1 million?

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Dockery should be the only FA acquisition.


Folks howl, but there's nothing wrong with taking the path of least resistance and thinking about the long-term effects of adding guys who break the bank.

The Fat Albert chatter is just that as the guy wants a truck load of loot, and all we got is a Datsun pickup in a world of Hummers.

It would be nice to be well under the sal cap so when options like Canty and Haynesworth come along, you can choose to make a wild choice and not have it kill your salary structure.

And please don't yak about the 'uncapped year' until it happens.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Every year, I say get rid of Jason Campbell, yet every year there are excuses for him. Whether, its a new system or bad O-line, or he's still basically a rookie, blah blah blah.

This was his year to put up, or shut up!

The guy is never, I repeat NEVER going to be the man. The Redskins will NEVER be more than average, until he is gone.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator
lol
a reunion

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:24 PM

Please ignore this looser, everyone remebers how you disappeard last year during the first 8 games when JC was doing well, and then you didnt pop your little moronic head back up until about week 12.
I wish your backbone was as strong as your agenda against JC

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 26, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why the 'Skins don't just claim Dockery off waivers. They would get his existing contract which only pays him $2.75 million this year. I'm sure it jumps soon, but they can renegotiate the contract after they claim him. The big risk is that some other team would claim him off waivers before the 'Skins could get him as a free agent.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Good QBS beat bad teams, i.e St. Louis, Cincinatti.. on their own.

Great QBs can beat good teams on their own.

Jason Campbell is an average, mediocre, run of the mill, QB. Nothing more, nothing less. He would make a decent backup for a team, but he is not going to lead any team to the promise land.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins will NEVER be more than average, until he is gone.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:31 PM |

Look, if Redskins Insider can be great with you around, 'Skins can do just fine with Campbell on the roster.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe

The Fat Albert chatter is just that as the guy wants a truck load of loot, and all we got is a Datsun pickup in a world of Hummers
-------------------------------------
so just asking what if Fat Albert plays well? Hey what if he does better than last year.

(Don't forget he is playing on last year ranked 4th Defense)

Is there no chance he does good?

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe

The Fat Albert chatter is just that as the guy wants a truck load of loot, and all we got is a Datsun pickup in a world of Hummers
-------------------------------------
so just asking what if Fat Albert plays well? Hey what if he does better than last year.

(Don't forget he is playing on last year ranked 4th Defense)

Is there no chance he does good?

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

My job is to keep you distracted at yours, TWISI!

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 1:33 PM

And whose job is it to keep you distracted, CB?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

I guess it was Campbell's fault in the 4th quarter when the defense couldn't stop the run & get the ball back right?

Posted by: mntb316 | February 26, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Why is everyone willing to make a litany of excuses for Jason Campbell? What is the connection here? If this was an underperforming player at any other position, you would say cut/bench him, but he's the QB...THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION.

We cannot continue to say that he should be forgiven for being unable to overcome deficiencies.

If our QB needs perfect conditions to perform, then he is MEDIOCRE, and we will never get to the next level with a QB that has to be coddled and hand held!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

If JC were making mistakes, throwing picks, fumbling the ball, throwing to the wrong receiver, then I would agree with you.

But when he was under constant pressure in the 2nd half of last year, then there is another area that has to be fixed, and that is the OL.

Posted by: frediefritz | February 26, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Please ignore this looser, everyone remebers how you disappeard last year during the first 8 games when JC was doing well, and then you didnt pop your little moronic head back up until about week 12.
I wish your backbone was as strong as your agenda against JC

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 26, 2009 2:33 PM

Why does everyone get so upset at the prospect of Jason Campbell being cut? HE IS JUST A PLAYER...HE IS NOT YOUR BROTHER.

We become WAY too attached to players in this town. He needs to go. We were 8 and 8. He lost 6 of the last 8. He is a loser. His starting percentage is below 500 for his career.

This will never change.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

guru,
the offense last year was a collection of dysfunction last. Does JC need to work on quicker release? yes. Was the pass protection last year inconsistent and poor against aggressive defenses? yes. Was the receiving corps (as a group) able to keep our opponents guessing? no.

despite what buges says, the OL was real weakness.

the easy analysis is to blame JC for all of it. I'd like to see Zorn modify the offense to Jason's strengths.

(hey at least we're talking about the big problem, the offense)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Look, if Redskins Insider can be great with you around, ......
Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Great yes...brilliant no. The overall IQ of RI drops with every JC sux post...

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

"the easy analysis is to blame JC for all of it.

Posted by: _Stumped_"

That should say "ignorant" instead of "easy".

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Stumped

Thank you!!
Beautiful

Zorn needs to......

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

If JC were making mistakes, throwing picks, fumbling the ball, throwing to the wrong receiver, then I would agree with you.

But when he was under constant pressure in the 2nd half of last year, then there is another area that has to be fixed, and that is the OL.

Posted by: frediefritz | February 26, 2009 2:39 PM

I hear you on that. I really do. However, we need to demand more from the QB, than just not making mistakes. This is one of his biggest problems, is that he plays not to lose, and we need a QB that plays to win!

We need a winner... someone that gets the job done when other things aren't going the team's way. Not someone that loses to the Bengals and to the Rams, because he is afraid to take a chance or two down the field.

We win those two games and we are 10 and 6 and in the playoffs. I can't live with 8 and 8...why can you?

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Great yes...brilliant no. The overall IQ of RI drops with every JC sux post...

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 2:42 PM

Actually the IQ goes up, because I back up my argument with facts and figures..while everyone else just calls me names and says...

"we want Jason Campbell because we said so"

I present valid arguments to cut him.. not one person can present a valid argument to keep him.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Put JC on the Patriots and he would go deep into the playoffs. Put Matt Cassel on the skins and he won't take you anywhere but 8-8. The O-line/WRs are the problem plain and simple!!

The patriots have had the same system for god knows how many years while the skins have gotten a new one, then new one, then a new one...Leave the kid alone he's gonna be great!!

Posted by: BurgwithaU | February 26, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

the easy analysis is to blame JC for all of it. I'd like to see Zorn modify the offense to Jason's strengths.

(hey at least we're talking about the big problem, the offense)

Posted by: _Stumped_

Agreed, about the offense.

I don't think Jason Campbell is our only problem. We do have other areas to address as well... but we can't turn a blind eye to the QB position just because of an emotional attachment to the kid.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

We need a defense that creates turnovers. Right now, say what you want about the offense, but until we start knocking the ball out of some hands we'll always be competing for that last wild card spot.

Posted by: mntb316 | February 26, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Zorn needs to ... explain how football is different then baseball to sportsguru

You don't have a winning quarterback in football (unlike a winning pitcher in baseball)- winning a football game is partially the result of a lot of different pieces (e.g. Offensive Line, Running Backs, Receivers) working together to create a positive result. On most days you can only be as successful as the parts around you. NOTE: Mark Rypien had one great year, really, as QB - in the Super Bowl year, he was sacked like -7 times or something.

So, yes, when a shut down pitcher pitches for you, as a baseball team, you can win games - witness Steve Carlton winning 20 games for a Phillies team that lost around 100 one year.

There is no such thing as a shut down QB - yes, Payton Manning can make the subtle difference on the last drive, for instance, and that's why he's great.

But over a season, a great percentage of a QB's victories have a lot to do with the rest of the team.

Some quarterbacks, like Elway, scramble and make big plays out of nothing. That's his style - it's not Jason's.

So, if you want to judge a guy as lacking who threw the second lowest amount of interceptions in the league last year, who IMPROVED his game, year over year, and played behind a very inadequete offensive line the whole year, be my guest.

You are really wrong, though.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

JC doesn't have the option of being aggressive when his receivers can't catch footballs when they hit them in numbers.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

We might compare Campbell to Flacco. I don't know what the stats say, but I watched Flacco in the playoffs and was impressed. But what's not clear is how Flacco might play on another team, say with the Redskins OL and WRs.

And this ignores the play calling and game plans. Zorn needs to rethink his role too. I just don't buy that he can be QB coach, Head Coach and call plays and not make sacrifices...no slight on him, but in the NFL today, it ain't humanly possible to wear all of those hats well.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"Actually the IQ goes up, because I back up my argument with facts and figures.."

hahahahahahaha

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I think we should sign dockery, chris canty, d hall, and maybe haynesworth if we get rid of springs, phillip daniels and cut jason taylors salary in half..

Posted by: jtorch4 | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

I think we should sign dockery, chris canty, d hall, and maybe haynesworth if we get rid of springs, phillip daniels and cut jason taylors salary in half..

Posted by: jtorch4 | February 26, 2009 2:53 PM

Dude,

We are talking Jason Campbell here.

;-)

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I have a little ball of yarn that keeps me distracted, Talent.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I have a little ball of yarn that keeps me distracted, Talent.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 2:55 PM

Are you a little kitty cat?

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

If we don't seriously address our OL this off season, we may be looking at only 4 or 5 wins. Thomas is old and crusty, Kendell is probably goign to leave, if a stiff breeze hits Jansen he breaks a bone in his leg. Samuels is the only good lineman and he's getting older too. I agree the defense is needing some upgrades too, but i think the OL is the priority.

Posted by: vtsquirm1 | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Would you take a Suber Bowl or not paying someone a little bit more.
Again don't get me wront I'm not saying go over board.

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:28 PM

Well, this was done already, don't you remember?

Sanders
Smith
Carrier

Then there is the Archuletta, Lloyd, and to a certain extent; the Randle El signings.

This isn't the best FO you want making decisions reegarding FA, or anyhting else really...

You say "don't go over board", but asking for a 100 million dollar contract wouldn't be considered going a little overboard.

Just because you sign the best available players in free agency, or build up some sort of all-world team doesn't guarantee a championship. You don't have to look to far back for examples - from this very own organization.

Free agents must be able to fit your system and coaches have to feel that he compliments the players that are already on the team.

This isn't Madden here, where you can sign anyone and they'll beast out on the field, there is so much more involved than the question of: "Does he improve our team."

You keep citing that it's not "our" money to spend. I say this is a very short-sighted and dismissive way of thinking.
By throwing large chicks of change at FAs, how do you expect to sign any 2nd or 3rd tier guys? What about draft picks? What about guys that have put their time in and and are ready for that 2nd contract, or a thrid contract? (Usually given as an extension when the franchise realizes that they have one of the top guys at that position)

So with your approach, you sign a guy as long as he adds value (presumably, that is) to the team, at whatever costs? That is what got the 'skins their reputation in the first place - a reputation that most fans hate.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

ohnDinHouston
well put

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Wow, we're going after everyone, typical Redskins.

Posted by: rachel216 | February 26, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Wow, we're going after everyone, typical Redskins.

Posted by: rachel216

Rachel,

Can you punt?

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

In some ways the WCO asks JC to be the perfect QB. Jason has a great arm down field and he moves well. So if he is able to master the timing patterns and shorter routes (given a solid supporting cast), the sky's the limit.

Zorn is the right guy to help him do this. And JC has shown he is able to make adjustments and get the job done.

BTW: I'm not a fan of Brett the gunslinger. Give me a QB that helps the team win, not someone who has great skills and instincts and rolls the dice.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"I present valid arguments to cut him.. not one person can present a valid argument to keep him.

Posted by: Sports_Guru"

Amidst your constant barrage of "facts" including "Jason Campbell is average", "he's a loser", "this will never change", "this team will be mediocre as long as he's a QB", and my personal favorite "he holds the ball too long or dumps it off to his hot too quick", not once have you provided a valid argument.

But here's one for you. Every year Campbell has been in the league, he has improved his completions, completion percentage, yards, interception percentage, TD/INT ratio, fumbles, rush yards, passer rating, and win total. Last year he ended the season as the #1 QB in INT percentage per pass and #1 in turnover percentage per pass. All of this was done despite constant turmoil regarding the coach, offensive system, personnel along the offensive line, and personnel among the WRs.

So how about you give him one more year to see if those improvements continue with another year in a constant system and minimal turnover among the coaching staff and teammates personnel. He only has one year left on his deal, so if it doesn't work out, you get your wish.

Now please, quit babbling.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Trade to get 2 1st rounders next year.

Draft Eric Berry and Sergio Kindle.

Have the most dominant defense in the history of the NFL.

Win Super Bowl 8-0 by way of 4 safeties.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | February 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

We need a punter and kicker, but there is no plash, except when you draft a punter.

Is Brooks ready to come back a la Dock and Springs?

I'm thinking no.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

We become WAY too attached to players in this town. He needs to go. We were 8 and 8. He lost 6 of the last 8. He is a loser. His starting percentage is below 500 for his career.

This will never change.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:40 PM


This is your problem a complete contradiction of yourself, how can you fuss with people not to turn a blind eye to JC but you turn a blind eye to the facts.
How can the team have 8 wins and JC gets no credit, but it loses 6 of 8 and it is JC's fault.

JC either gets credit for both or no credit at all it cant be either or.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | February 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

I am getting kind of nervous. We still need to sort out Springs and JT's contract and or relase one or both today to get more cap relief... Any word Cindy?

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Sports Guru must be related to Jason LaCanfora. The worst aspect of last year was the offensive coaches and play calling, not Jason Campbell. Coaches adjusted to what the Skins were doing and the offense sputtered. Zorn (and Vinny) deserve more criticism than anyone in the organization.

Posted by: dcwun | February 26, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

By throwing large chicks of change at FAs...

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM |

This is a fresh, new approach. We will get some of the chubbier female Obama supporters -- large chicks of change -- to talk to these guys on Redskins One. When they get off the plane, they won't know what hit them.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Amidst your constant barrage of "facts" including "Jason Campbell is average", "he's a loser", "this will never change", "this team will be mediocre as long as he's a QB", and my personal favorite "he holds the ball too long or dumps it off to his hot too quick", not once have you provided a valid argument.

But here's one for you. Every year Campbell has been in the league, he has improved his completions, completion percentage, yards, interception percentage, TD/INT ratio, fumbles, rush yards, passer rating, and win total. Last year he ended the season as the #1 QB in INT percentage per pass and #1 in turnover percentage per pass. All of this was done despite constant turmoil regarding the coach, offensive system, personnel along the offensive line, and personnel among the WRs.

So how about you give him one more year to see if those improvements continue with another year in a constant system and minimal turnover among the coaching staff and teammates personnel. He only has one year left on his deal, so if it doesn't work out, you get your wish.

Now please, quit babbling.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:03 PM
OWNED!

Well said psp....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 26, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

We still need to sort out Springs and JT's contract and or relase one or both today to get more cap relief.

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 3:04 PM

Not really. You can release either of them whenever you need the cap room -- say five minutes before Haynesworth comes in and eats up all the cash in the house. No need to do it before then.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

'....Why is everyone willing to make a litany of excuses for Jason Campbell?'


Sports_guru

You blog like you're Sam Bradford/Tim Tebow's agent and you expect the skins to go 3-13 next year.

Campbell's issues have been discussed at lenght by folks who know more than and less than the both of us, so chill.

I too think he's an inaccurate quarterback who played last season like he was afraid to take a chance and use his mighty arm to fit the ball into tight spaces.

But I also think there's that chance the light goes off, and Campbell plays at a level that'll confound the fans even more.

If he plays well, but the team doesn't make the playoffs, who's fault is it?

If he's mediocre, and the team makes the playoffs and loses in the 1st round, do you give him an extension while it's cheap to do so?

If he gets hurt--again--and Collins plays well, what happens?

Again: Campbell's maturation is the biggest issue confronting the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Do we have to be under the cap every minute of free agency?

Can we sign Haynesworth and be over, if we plan on releasing players after?

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Boy, I guess no one here really watches the games? ~laughing~ They aren't going to cut Springs. He continues to refuse to renegotiate his contract. And he doesn't get cut. Why you ask? Because he can. If you look at the amount of time he has spent on the field it is probably is about the same as that spent by Champ Bailey in Denver. As a cover corner he is probably just as good as Bailey. They got lucky when they signed him, it was a good move by Gibbs and company.

On the open market Springs would still command a high salary. He is paid less than they everyone assume Hall will get. He is a lot better when he is on the field. And Carlos has not even come close to reaching Springs level. If he had Springs would have been gone.

You have 2 2nd best corners in Hall and Rogers. You have only 1 true top notch cover corner and that is Springs.

At this point they can only replace him by getting a Sean Taylor/La Ron Landry level player in the 1st round of the draft. FA would not be the place to go for this level of player.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Do we have to be under the cap every minute of free agency?

Can we sign Haynesworth and be over, if we plan on releasing players after?

Posted by: Rypien11 | February 26, 2009 3:12 PM

Yes.

No. Can't sign a guy if you don't have the cap. League won't approve the contract.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV

Nice!! well put.

But no one is perfect 100% perfect in
Free agency.

Ok yes the skins have not done a good job at it in the past like you've said.
Sanders
Smith
Carrier
and more

but my question is were we the only team who wanted sanders, smith and carrier.
I don't think so.

so dosen't that mean they would have done the same thing on the other teams.

Yes coaching, and team and phylosophie has to do a little with it. But overall if you can play you can play.

Example: If you put Peyton Manning on any team or better yet put him on the lion from last year.
Do they win 1 game?

another question. Would you want hanyworht if he wanted only 1 million?

or what if he plays well. or plays up to the contract?

also about having money for 2 or 3 tier players.
From what I've seen the last couple of years the skins always find a way. So if the skins want him they get him. They will find a way.

I'm about getting better or improving.
I think part of the problem is that people are listening and hearing stuff like skins don't have a lot of cap and they still have players to sign back....the point is how many of us knew they were going to reconstruct all these players.

Another question. Is it the FO fault the big free agents did not do well.

Or is it coaching, team phylosophie.....

Its weird I just want to go back in time and put

Sanders
Smith
Carrier
.....on lets say the Colts....do they play well.

So it would be the FO fault if the best DT dosen't play well.

Their job is to get the coaches players. If they give us Peyton Manning and we do nothing with it. who's fault is that?

Posted by: 1skinfan | February 26, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Sign Leftwich let him compete with Campbell. Two first rounders head-to-head. Collins 3rd QB. Colt gets traded for a pick.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

It is very ignorant to blame JC for all the problems on offense. I think the number one culprit is one James Arthur Zorn; for his stubborness, arrogance, and his overall refusal to adjust anything on offense - hell he didn't give any thought at all at making someone else the PR for an entire game.

Then I think it falls on the receivers, especially the rookies, who didn't contribute a damn thing - but again, some of that is on Zorn, the head coach.

For all the clamoring over the current state of the line, IMO, I think they are second to last of why the offense was a joke, and especially down the stretch. While I agree that they need to focus this season on the offensive line, I think the failures on offense in the '08 season are largely in part on Zorn and his way of carrying it, and then the receivers - one couldn't get healthy, the other one was worried about hittin' the clubs with Portis more than hittin' the playbook and learning technique, and the red zone TE had difficulty understanding the playbook as well.

To Recap '08 offensive failures: Who's the blame: 1) Zorn 2) Receivers 3) Offensive line 4) Jason Campbell

Jason isn't completely innocent neither. He has to lose the fear of throwing INTs and throwing into tight spaces, he has to learn to trust his WRs (Something that is two-fold, BTW), and needs to develop some damn swag. He looks lost, confused, and just plain scared at times.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

I think Dockery makes sense, given Kendall's age and knees.

BUT .......

If I'm Vinny, I call Chris Samuels into my office and ask him what he thinks about Dockery. Something obviously went wrong in Buffalo because 2009 wasn't a big $$ year for Dockery ... usually guys get cut when they're due a big paycheck for that year.

Samuels played next to the guy for long enough and would play next to him again. Let Samuels look at the tape, see whats going on. If Dockery regressed, maybe he isn't the right fit.

Then I'd have Samuels interview Dockery, get an update on where he is mentally. I'll bet Samuels would be able to tell if Dock is up to it or not. If I bring back Dockery, its because Chris Samuels thinks its a good move.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 26, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"Yes.

No. Can't sign a guy if you don't have the cap. League won't approve the contract.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009"

I'm not sure but I believe there is a clause that allows you to go over the cap to some extent if its your own free agent? I forget how that works though?

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Guru,
In 1988 John Elway threw only 17 touchdowns with 19 int’s in 16 games. The next year (1989 season) they went to the super bowl (again). Good thing they didn’t cut him. And by the way, in 1989 he only threw 18 touchdowns and 18 interceptions (oh the horror!), yet they still went to the super bowl. I am not saying JC17 is John Elway, but your cherry picked “facts” don’t tell the whole story. Just give it a rest. Everyone up here knows the real, whole story and we all know that if he sjk’s the bed this year he is probably gone. You might get a little respect up here if you weren’t such a broken record, Probably not though, you are really annoying.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 26, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

"He looks lost, confused, and just plain scared at times."

I think those times coincide with Zorn calling in one of his plays from the sideline.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | February 26, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Then I'd have Samuels interview Dockery, get an update on where he is mentally. I'll bet Samuels would be able to tell if Dock is up to it or not. If I bring back Dockery, its because Chris Samuels thinks its a good move.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 26, 2009 3:18 PM

Samuels and Dock were pretty tight and Samuels was upset when Dock left. Here's how today went: Dock got cut. Dock called Chris. Chris called Vinnie. Now Vinnie's gonna make it happen -- either by claiming Dock off waivers or waiting until tomorrow, IF he clears waivers.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: periculum

'...Sign Leftwich let him compete with Campbell. Two first rounders head-to-head. Collins 3rd QB. Colt gets traded for a pick....'


FAX this note to Sports_guru. It was discussed on this blog about a week ago that Leftwich feels he could come to DC and comete for the starting job.

Moe agrees with his assessment when memories of his lighting up the redskin' D come back into view.

Nothing makes a guy play like pressure, and nothing insures the future like a worthy back up plan.

Don't tell me that Leftwich is such a non-talent the 6-ring wearing stillers avoided him.

'Cuz they didn't.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"Again: Campbell's maturation is the biggest issue confronting the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009"

We don't know how much of that is the offensive line. Seattle found a way to get to Collins and he threw a couple of interceptions, looked mediocre to poor.

I agree that Campbell needs some competition. And Colt is not the answer. It made Drew Brees and Philip Rivers into good to great QBs for a time.

But its also the system, and ours changed yet again. Its the OL. Its a new HC/offensive coordinator who really never wore either of those two hats before. Its the dearth of wide receivers beyond Moss. Its Portis becoming more like Benny Malone in the 2nd half of the season.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

I know Jason Campbell and Dock were really good friends. Hung out together, etc - even after Dock left us.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 26, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Are you a little kitty cat?

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2009 2:58 PM


Yes. Yes she is. The secret's out. Her real name is Theodore and she is fond of red wine and she could probably scratch your eyes out if irritated!!

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Nothing makes a guy play like pressure,

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 3:26 PM

And, Mista, Campbell has all the pressure in the world. He's in a contract year. Doesn't matter who else is on the team -- his whole career is on the line this year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I've posted my feelings on QB competitions numerous times before, so I won't go into detail regarding this issue again. I simply find this slightly amusing.

"Nothing makes a guy play like pressure"

I wonder how "pressure" made Big Byron play the last time he dealt with it?

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

What if they sign Haynesworth and don't sign Dock?

(it could happen)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

And, Mista, Campbell has all the pressure in the world. He's in a contract year. Doesn't matter who else is on the team -- his whole career is on the line this year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

---

Exactly.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Ha! Theodore does like red wine but he's not a scratcher at all.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

What if they sign Haynesworth and don't sign Dock?

(it could happen)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 3:35 PM

That's a tough one. Maybe Dock won't have to block Haynesworth in practice?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"I wonder how "pressure" made Big Byron play the last time he dealt with it?

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009"

Apparently pretty well. The Skins game wasn't the only game he did well in when replacing Ben.

Perhaps Jacksonville made a mistake cutting Brunell and designating him their starter right off the bat. Now-a-days it seems like it works better when they earn it through tough competition engendering a lot of focus!

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

I meant letting Brunell go for picks.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

T_E,

Dockery isn't subject to waivers. Once you are in the league long enough, if you get cut you immiediately become a free agent, no waivers.

For the salary cap talk, you have to be under the cap at all times, no exceptions. What they usually do is agree to a contract but not sign it until the other necessary moves are complete.

Posted by: Snydersucks | February 26, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"And, Mista, Campbell has all the pressure in the world. He's in a contract year. Doesn't matter who else is on the team -- his whole career is on the line this year.

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

I think that's different. Its like a swimmer competing against himself and the clock instead of having a real athlete in the next lane pushing him.

Its a big difference folks. Huge.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

"Yes. Yes she is. The secret's out. Her real name is Theodore and she is fond of red wine and she could probably scratch your eyes out if irritated!!

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009"

Ah nothing like the smell of fresh pussy in the morning!

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Apparently pretty well. The Skins game wasn't the only game he did well in when replacing Ben.

Perhaps Jacksonville made a mistake cutting Brunell and designating him their starter right off the bat. Now-a-days it seems like it works better when they earn it through tough competition engendering a lot of focus!

Posted by: periculum

----

You missed the point peri. The last time he dealt with "pressure" (i.e. QB competition) he was cut in favor of David Garrard.

However, he comes back with Pittsburgh, plays well in relief, and now people (analysts) are saying he's a sleeper as a starting QB on the market.

Just goes to reinforce my point that QB competitions almost always hurt the incumbent. Leftwich may join Pennington and Kurt Warner as other incumbents knocked off to perform better elsewhere. Let's not give JC the opportunity to jump on that list.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Pat Kirwan has his list of 50 top free agents. Demetric Evans is #40. Deangelo Hall? He's #56. (Best of the Rest). And, yeah, Haynesworth tops the list.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

LMAO, only t_e can point out my, or any typo and make me laugh about it.

Special guy, that t_e.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

CAN'T WAIT TO BUY MY HAYNESWORTH JERSEY TOMORROW!!!!

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I think that's different. Its like a swimmer competing against himself and the clock instead of having a real athlete in the next lane pushing him.

Its a big difference folks. Huge.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 3:39 PM

Who was the swimmer in the next lane pushing Haynesworth this year? Mark Spitz?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"I think that's different. Its like a swimmer competing against himself and the clock instead of having a real athlete in the next lane pushing him.

Its a big difference folks. Huge.

Posted by: periculum "

Using this theory, Big Al Haynesworth will average 10+ sacks per season for us because he'll be competing with Griff, Monty, and Golston for his starting spot. That makes him all the more can't-miss.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Leftwich didn't respond well to pressure in Atlanta but it was a really bad time for everyone on the team then.

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Heading out to Talking Points now. I'll be back on here around 6:30. Be here chasing stuff all night. See you shortly.

Posted by: Cindy Boren | February 26, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

I read all the posts about hickory dickory Dockery and smile. I live in the Buffalo area and follow the Bills somewhat. He was a total bust here. Dr Hold as I call him. Signing him would be another indication that the 'Skins front office doesn't know talent. I am glad I lived to witness 3 Super Bowl wins and 2 other appearences. The'Skins will never get back into the Bowl until Snyder cans Vinny and brings in a true NFL GM. I predict 7-9, 8-8 or at best 9-7 in 2009. I also predict that if the 'Skins sign Haynesworth, he won't perform at his past level. He will take the money and cruise, which is the same thing most of all the other high priced free agents did.

Posted by: pjente | February 26, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Dockery isn't subject to waivers. Once you are in the league long enough, if you get cut you immiediately become a free agent, no waivers.

Posted by: Snydersucks | February 26, 2009 3:38 PM

Thanks for correcting me on that. I try to learn something every day. If I don't learn this today, I'd like you to remind me the next time I get it wrong, please.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

If we get Haynesworth, he can help clog
up the middle. Of course, there is a rotation w/ the other lineman. I just hope
He plays w/ a sense of urgency. Then
in the draft, either pick LB,OL or trade down a few spots for extra picks.

Posted by: madalao | February 26, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

No one has talk about Vilma coming in here. Any thoughts?

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

guzu, go hold your breath till you pass out.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

And I suddenly remember why I liked Beantown.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

psps23, I dont see JT playing SLB and all the responsibilities that come with it. His size may be comparable to a SLB, but I dont think his frame is. He's like 6'6" and I hear his playing weight drops below 240 during the season. He may drop back in coverage once in awhile, but thats more of a zone blitz than JT playing SLB. With him not "feeling comfortable" last season, the coaches are going to do everything they can to keep him in a comfort zone, ie rush the passer.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | February 26, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I think ps was talking about Leftwich's time in Jacksonville.

I know there other other situations, but are there any other QBs that didn't play to their full potential because another guy was behind them?

I can only think of QBs that were injured, "on the way out" anyway, or too old to invest a future in.

Brady/Bledsoe

Manning/Warner

Romo/and Bledsoe - again

Come to think of it, I can think of one QB who may have been stunted by signing a QB close to the same age as he: Brees/Rivers

But Brees in SD was better than Campbell has ever been, wouldn't you agree?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

$20 says that Sports_Guru is really Jason Campbell looking to get some emotional support from us fans that defend his honor.

Posted by: BostonWarPath | February 26, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

SIGN DOCKERY! Great move.
Keep Kendall for vet minimum to back up the OG and C spots, keep developing Rinehart; maybe draft Dock's little bro in the 5th round as a project.

If we can get a RT in the 1st round I think we'll have a solid O-Line for next year and can continue to solidify it over the next few drafts by working in a new center, LT, and RG (if Rinehart doesn't pan out-- I ain't throwing the towel in on him yet).

Good skins news, finally!

Posted by: TDawg1 | February 26, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

VaBeachBlitz - I don't think they'll use him as a OLB. I think he'll start and play a majority at DE, especially if Haynesworth is signed. Even if he doesn't play LDE, he'll take over for Carter at RDE -- I'd put money on it.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

P.S.-- I really wouldn't mind brining in Leftwich as the #2, cutting the Todd, and keeping Colt as the 3rd while he develops. Leftwich is a D.C. boy and would do everything for us out of team love...

Posted by: TDawg1 | February 26, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

No to Vilma. He would have to play now, and they already have Fletcher.

I don't think Vilma can play any other position than MLB.

Either he couldn't get with the 3-4 the Jets were running, or didn't like the position he was playing, anyway it resulted in him being traded* to New Orleans.

* = I think

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

t-dawg, good to hear from you. Kendall has gone on record that he wants to start, so if the skins bring in dock, I think they don't bring back Kendall.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"Come to think of it, I can think of one QB who may have been stunted by signing a QB close to the same age as he: Brees/Rivers

But Brees in SD was better than Campbell has ever been, wouldn't you agree?

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009"

How about Warner/Trent Green
Montana/Young
Rypien/Humphries ?

Yes, I agree. But, again, Brees was further along in his career and did not play for a team that creates a great deal of havoc and chaos by continually changing things like coaches ...

I believe Campbell has shown steady improvement. Do you want it to go faster? Bring in Leftwich and let's see how it goes ...

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

The'Skins will never get back into the Bowl until Snyder cans Vinny and brings in a true NFL GM. I predict 7-9, 8-8 or at best 9-7 in 2009.

Posted by: pjente | February 26, 2009 3:53 PM

Another damned spoiler! Hey, terdface. Just because you've seen the movie, you're not supposed to tell the ending to the rest of us. Now we can't even enjoy the movie. You're worthless.

Look, this is the time of the year when the 'Skins will be 19-0. You can't roll out the 8-8 horsesheet now. That's for later. We own off season.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Anyone else think it'd be stupid for Dockery NOT to come back to Washington????

1) He knows the system & signals
2) He knows the players on the team
3) He will most likely be definitely starting
4) He was happier in DC
5) Got better performance from being under Buges' watchful eye

If we get Dockery back.....i would definitely be verrrry pleased as that would fill a huge hole in our OL.

Posted by: goosedude | February 26, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

AH is coming here to eat....

http://www.smackenergybar.com/v2/

funny sh#T

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | February 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Jason Brown: Dolphins/Redskins Likely Suitors?

As Scout.com first noted several weeks ago, Baltimore Ravens C Jason Brown would be seeking a contract exceeding the six-year, $37.5 million deal Jeff Faine got from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers last season.

Sources said last week at the NFL combine that Brown could get significantly more if other teams were interested in him playing guard instead.

As of Thursday afternoon, league sources indicated that the St. Louis Rams and Jacksonville Jaguars, who had been linked to Brown, were not going to pursue him.

The two teams linked to him lately have been the Washington Redskins and Miami Dolphins.

With Washington, the team could choose to play him at left guard in place of Pete Kendall whose contract will expire on Friday.

As Scout.com first noted over a year ago, Miami wanted to move C Samson Satele to guard and was looking for an upgrade at the position. Miami, as of Wednesday evening, had around $20 million in salary cap space. However, that was before re-signing LB Channing Crowder and S Gibril Wilson. However, a league source said the team would getting over $16 million in cap credits from DT Jason Ferguson ($10.125 million) and S Renaldo Hill ($5.94 million

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

if you remember correctly, Dockery wasn't signed because they didn't want to pay up, not because of his performance. Sign him.

Posted by: eghblaw | February 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I really wouldn't mind brining in Leftwich as the #2, cutting the Todd, and keeping Colt as the 3rd while he develops. Leftwich is a D.C. boy and would do everything for us out of team love...

Posted by: TDawg1 | February 26, 2009 4:03 PM

TDAWG--This will never happen. Todd's salary is guaranteed for this year. We pay him whether he plays or not, so with all the other needs, we can't afford Leftwich.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

From a Die Hard Skins fan, here's the best way to shore up the holes for the Skin's:

Sign FA's Dockery OL, Hall CB, Canty DE/DT(he's more cap friendly than Haynesworth), WR Nate Washington (get him to stetch the field and take pressure off of Moss...just not completely sold on Kelly, and Thomas yet), Leftwich QB (to push JC for staring job and put pressure on him to perform better....Byron is a homer, plus it's a contract year for JC)

Resign Daniels as a backup DE/DT (he's a warrior and he deserves it)

Move Jason Taylor to OLB (to replace MW...this allows JT to rush the passer more and be disruptive)

Move Springs to FS and let him play the 3rd corner in nickel package and put Horton back at FS in nickel package

Let Smoot play opposite Hall (or see if Westbrook or Tryon can take over the position in training camp)

Release Jansen and place Hyer back at RT (use Reinhardt as backup G/T)

Release Rock Cartright, James Thrash...(let's face it..it's just time)

Release Todd Collins

Trade Rogers to Lions for 2nd and 5th round picks (yes trade Rogers....even at less than 100% Springs is still a better defender than any other corner on the roster, letting Springs go would be a mistake)

Draft Orakpo at 13 (more pressing needs on defense right now....besides he's a beast)

Provided Detroit bit on the trade, use the 2nd round pick to draft Mack (or use multiple picks to go up and get him)

Use 3rd round Pick to Draft Pat White as a QB (if he's available) or draft best OLB on the board (regardless to what some think, JC's days are numbered...why do you think he has not been extended yet? They aren't sure he's the franchise QB, plus as much as I loved the guy (Joe Gibbs), he's a Gibbs QB not what Zorn really needed to run the West Caost Offense)

Again provided Detroit bit on the trade, draft an OLB or stud DB in the 4th

Use remaining picks to shore up rest of OL and DL to get younger


That's the way the way I see it

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

t-dawg, good to hear from you. Kendall has gone on record that he wants to start, so if the skins bring in dock, I think they don't bring back Kendall.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Ahoy, Greg! It's been a while.

Yeah, I remember him saying that-- but who would realistically bite? If they bring back Dock, he'll try to test the market and find out the hard way (just like our boy Rock) that he'll have a home in D.C. on our terms. I can't see many teams shelling out a million for a 36 year old arthritic LG unless they don't have any other possible option (which will be us if we don't have Dock!)

Posted by: TDawg1 | February 26, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

When did anyone do good in Buffalo?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"Using this theory, Big Al Haynesworth will average 10+ sacks per season for us because he'll be competing with Griff, Monty, and Golston for his starting spot. That makes him all the more can't-miss.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009"

typically that is how it works with the other positions on an NFL team. But it usually helps when you are competing against someone who is at your level for your playing time.

thus Carlos sitting and Hall playing.

Haynesworth, because he is paid so much, will have no competition. He has to play and start. Montgomery may move to end I suspect. Golston would rotate with Griffin.

BOTH Leftwich and Campbell would be hungry. Campbell is in the last year of his contract. Leftwich wants to prove he can start and win. This is a no brainer.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV:

Here's a list of incumbents that ended up playing worse in a QB competition:

-Kurt Warner (vs. Bulger)
-Drew Beldsoe (vs. Brady and Romo)
-Chad Pennington (vs. Kellen Clemens)
-Matt Leinart (vs. Kurt Warner)
-Byron Leftwich (vs. David Garrard)
-JP Losman (vs. Trent Edwards)
-Derek Anderson (vs. Brady Quinn)
-Travaris Jackson (vs. Gus Frerotte)

Now some of those were the correct decisions. Some of them were not.

I can think of one QB that did end up playing better (even though he lost):

-Drew Brees (vs. Philip Rivers)

And Brees has been playing even better (arguably to the point of an MVP) since he was given the job straight in New Orleans. He's been better as the straight #1.

I literally can't remember a time when a QB competition "sparked" the incumbent to win a competition and settle the QB position. It just doesn't happen, for whatever reason.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Did I just scoop Jasno?

Looks like the Skins are going after C/G Brown, the beast from the Ravens!!!

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3317

Posted by: TDawg1 | February 26, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

This is a no brainer.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:12 PM

I feel like half of your posts are no-brainers and the other half I just can't understand.

We can't sign Leftwich, especially not as a rabbit to set the pace for the starting QB. We don't have the money. Collins' salary for next year is guaranteed. If we cut him, we pay him anyway.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"Draft Orakpo at 13 (more pressing needs on defense right now....besides he's a beast)"

Its almost foregone they will draft OL. What pressing needs on defense? They finished 4th after Hayneworth's team the Titans?

Meanwhile the OL is crippled and depleted.

Besides all the the mock drafts show Orakpo gone before then. Who cares if he is a beast? Can he replace Griffin? NO. He's not that big of a "beast". Can he stop the run? Maybe not.

They have to draft OL, they have no choice. Its clear based on the silly gossipy types at Redskins Park who seem to be itching to announce every move the Snidely makes. If they go for D in the FA, they have to go for "O" in the draft and that means linemen like Oher, Smith, Mack and their ilk.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

yeah, I'm not sure there is much of a market for a 36 year old guard, with bad knees....Kendall might be in for a bit of a surprise...

twisi, I think if they bring in J. Brown, it would be the end of the line for Rabach...especially if they bring in Dock on the relatively cheap...

So looking at that scenario, the team would get bigger, and younger, on the OL with those 2 moves. If they then draft Smith at #13, another situation where they get bigger, and younger.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cindy.. what's the latest on the trade Carlos Rogers for a draft pick talk? If the Skins resign Hall I think it's a good move.

Posted by: elfreako | February 26, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Per Rotoworld.com

Despite missing out on Panthers CB Ken Lucas, the Lions reportedly remain adamant about trading for a cornerback.

"They're trying to trade for any and every cornerback," a league source told MLive.com. Potential targets include Lito Sheppard, Shawntae Spencer, Deshea Townsend, Stanford Routt, Cletis Gordon, and Carlos Rogers.
Source: MLive.com
Related: Lions

Posted by: rbruce2 | February 26, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

980 just reported that the Boston Globe is reporting the Patriots are very interested in Deangelo Hall.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 26, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Brown would be a nice pick up for us but we need hall and get rid of springs cause he is to expensive to bruise his leg hair every season and sit out half the season for 8 mil.

Posted by: skinsst21 | February 26, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

well peri, I don't have a problem with JC, I'm not riding that wagon. I think Jason's is still learning, and that anyone who thinks the guy will be Manning, Brady, or Brees needs to open their eyes and put down the lotion or toy.

I'm also not convinced that Campbell is going to be the guy either. He needs to work on placing the deep ball where his receiver will have the best shot at catching it, and putting touch and place on his intermediate throws - which is essential in the west coast offense.

But the QBs you named all went on to have major to maginal success:

Warner/Trent Green
Montana/Young
Rypien/Humphries

Four of those QBs went on to win the SB, something for some stupid reason is a testament to a QBs career, and the other two have either made a SB appearance or had a damned good career (Trent Green).

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

How do you solve the problem like the redskins? Fire Vinny! Or better still can we trade him for draft picks? Everyone knows that we need an offensive and defensive line. But for some reason Vinny only looks at free agency. Doesn’t he know how to look past the tv, internet or newspaper? There are thousands of hungry, young, talented players out there from lesser known colleges just waiting to have an opportunity. Vinny can sign them at base salary contracts and these guys will play their hearts out to land a big contract someday. We need young players that will work with Coach Zorn. Remember when Coach Gibbs came to town, the first thing he did was get rid of Coach Allen’s “Over the Hill Gang”. Free agency is not the answer. You’re only wasting your money on paying players for what they already have accomplished. The other thing he needs to do is trade Clinton for draft picks. I’m sorry to say, but Clinton’s time has come and gone. Dallas was able to build a championship team after trading Hershel Walker. We may not get as many picks as that, but we can draft younger skilled players who will play every game for the amount of money that we are paying Clinton who has missed playing time the past few seasons.

Posted by: dgarshell | February 26, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"We can't sign Leftwich, especially not as a rabbit to set the pace for the starting QB. We don't have the money. Collins' salary for next year is guaranteed. If we cut him, we pay him anyway.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009"

I never said cut Collins. He is there for the long term because of his contract. But Colt?

Besides, it might be easy for them to get Leftwich by allowing him to compete for the starting position and creating a contract that is laden with incentives where money comes next year and the year after depending on performance.

Yes, brainless that is a no-brainer.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

'...And, Mista, Campbell has all the pressure in the world...'


True. Agreed.

But I like the idea of having a back up guy who, should Campbell not make the grade, can step in while either Colt matures or hold the fort while the next new savior (I like Sam Bradford) learns the game.

We all know Collins being re-signed was dumb. But who wants him to start? And cutting him costs money.

The issue with this being Campbell's contract year sucks for him as a bunch of variables have to fall into place--o-line/wide outs/running game/playcalling--for it all to work for him.

But again: if the redskins offense had generated 10 additional points a game last season, that's 3-4 more wins.

10 additional points with a high quality defense this upcoming season means 11-5, playoffs.

If it doesn't, Sports_guru gets his wishes and Campbell morphs into Pat Ramsey and heads off into the distance.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

980 just reported that the Boston Globe is reporting the Patriots are very interested in Deangelo Hall.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 26, 2009 4:19 PM


For as much as people love to jock the Pats and their moves. They let Asante Samuel go but now might throw big money at Hall. Redskinesque.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | February 26, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Despite missing out on Panthers CB Ken Lucas, the Lions reportedly remain adamant about trading for a cornerback.

"They're trying to trade for any and every cornerback," a league source told MLive.com. Potential targets include Lito Sheppard, Shawntae Spencer, Deshea Townsend, Stanford Routt, Cletis Gordon, and Carlos Rogers.
Source: MLive.com
Related: Lions

Posted by: rbruce2


I've said this before that the skins could trade Los and the 13th pick for the Lions #20 and their first pick in the 2nd round and a ham sandwhich.

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Or is this the Redskins contract card being played?

Yet again.

I don't thing the Skins' FO really works this hard.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

"Four of those QBs went on to win the SB, something for some stupid reason is a testament to a QBs career, and the other two have either made a SB appearance or had a damned good career (Trent Green).

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009"

Humpheries took San Diego to their one and only superbowl. So, in effect he had a better career than Green, another former Redskin. The only reason his career ended was due to too many concussions.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, might have been SD's second superbowl but who's counting?

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I would trade Springs to Detroit for 2nd or 3rd.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

The Boston Globe suggests that the Patriots could enter the bidding for free agent DeAngelo Hall.

New England had interest in Hall when he was cut by Oakland in-season and is still sorely in need of corners. The Pats figure to only target 1-2 marquee free agents with much of their cap devoted to Matt Cassel and Tom Brady.

I can't see them signing Hall, just not their style....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

I would trade Springs to Detroit for 2nd or 3rd.

Posted by: alex35332


The Lions have 2 third rounders. I think the skins could get 1 of them and a conditional pick in 2010 for Springs.

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"980 just reported that the Boston Globe is reporting the Patriots are very interested in Deangelo Hall.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 26, 2009"

Hall did say he wanted to stay with the Skins. Have to see how that plays out.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Or I would send Rogers to Detroit, but they would have to be willing to take Vinny too.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"The Lions have 2 third rounders. I think the skins could get 1 of them and a conditional pick in 2010 for Springs.

Posted by: TWISI | February 26, 2009"

They might have to go CB first if they do that. That means no OT but maybe they get Mack.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

If they trade Springs they will have to get another 1st as they did with Campbell and Rogers. Drafting a CB and OT in the first. Get a second and hope that Alex Mack is available. Then breathe a sigh of relief. Unless they sign the Ravens Brown and Dockery. Then draft a tackle in the 1st.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

ps, you can make the argument that some of these QBs weren't considered as the long-term solution (grooming a younger guy), a stop gap (best option at the time), or on the way out anyway:

-Kurt Warner (vs. Bulger) - [Kurt Warner was thought of as only a guy who can succeed with excellent WRs playing along side him - and he still is]

-Drew Beldsoe (vs. Brady and Romo) - [Tragedy of Bledsoe pt.1 is nothing more than injury related - an anomoly, but pt.2 to that story falls into the "stop gap/wasn't considered a long-term solution categorey]

-Chad Pennington (vs. Kellen Clemens) - [The Jets have all but washed their hands of Pennington anyway, defintely falls into all three categories mentioned in the beginning]

-Matt Leinart (vs. Kurt Warner)
-Byron Leftwich (vs. David Garrard)
-JP Losman (vs. Trent Edwards)
-Travaris Jackson (vs. Gus Frerotte) - [These four cases I'll give you, people have really forgotten about Leinart; you can make it five when throwing Young/Collins in there]

-Derek Anderson (vs. Brady Quinn) - [I think this is more Anderson being exposed once the league had tape on him, but it wasn't like they were doing him any favors in drafting Quinn.

I think it all depends on the situation and QB. Not every QB was stunted or mentally weak by having another QB come in.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

"Draft Orakpo at 13 (more pressing needs on defense right now....besides he's a beast)"

Its almost foregone they will draft OL. What pressing needs on defense? They finished 4th after Hayneworth's team the Titans?

Meanwhile the OL is crippled and depleted.

I agree the OL needs work but even though we were ranked fourth on D, we were almost last in sacks which exposed the secondary especially when Springs was down and we had Carlos "hands of stone" Rogers who couldn't catch a cold, much less a football. How may game changing opportunities did we squander away because of that? We need a game changing player who even at pick 13 will cost us far less money than Haynesworth, will be younger and more motivated to play harder to get his big payday in the future. Offensive tackles are easy to come by in FA and fairly cheap too. Rookie OTs, though projected to be stalwarts coming out of the college ranks, are unproven commodities that you have a 50/50 shot of drafting the right one, when there are FA's available who have proven track records. Baltimore has one right down the beltway we seem to be interested in (Brown) who is a versitale lineman who can play Center, Guard and Takle if need be. That is value and frees the team up to fill other needs. I just think we are better served utilizing the 13th pick on an impact player who can change the game in one play. Orakpo has that kind of talent.

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

How stupid does this make the Skins look?

They had him and could have kept him for less, they let him go for more, and now they are going to pursue him again?

I hope thye get him back, but man are they stupid for letting him go in the first place.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 26, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I hope thye get him back, but man are they stupid for letting him go in the first place.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 26, 2009 4:40 PM

Not if you are of the thought that Pete Kendall played as well as or better than Dock. If stupid is letting someone go who is commanding the highest salary for his position, and brining in someone for 2 years at 1.5 mill per, or whatever he made, to play just as well if not better, than I will take stupid every time. And if you think Dock is way better than Kendall, well now they stand to bring him back in at a much lower price than 7 mil per year, and they just might get to keep Kendall as well.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 26, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

OK here is the thing. The way good teams stay good is not by drafting for need now. They draft for need a few years from now. That is the reason the redskins should draft the highest rated MLB on the board with their first pick. As we can see, there are a lot of teams giving up very good players. You always can sign these guys and not take much of a cap hit the first year - This year. Next year when there is no cap, you restructure the contracts to eat the entire signing bonus and cut all the cap anchors and eat their bonus too, all in the no cap year. You come out of it with no baggage, and start over again with a bunch of veterans and draft picks in the bank. Actually I would consider, just for this year trading away every pick after the first round and filling in the rest of the team with FA. Like I said, worst case is you dump them all next year in the no cap year and begin with the draft then. When does it become official that there will be a no-cap year next year? Does anyone know when the cutoff is?

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

I can't see them signing Hall, just not their style....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:31 PM

Randy Moss?
Adalius Thomas?

Randy was righ-reward, low-risk, but they had to give up the bread for Thomas. Wasn't he the highest paid defensive player for about 3 or 4 weeks until the Colts re-signed Dwight Freeney. He held the distinction until Clements was signed in San Fran, I think.

This doesn't surprise me that the D'Hall suitors are now out... If Hall really wants to stay, and if he was serious about that "This is where I belong" talk, then he'll quit BS'n and sign the contract.

The 'skins must be low-balling the sh*t out of him right now - both sides aren't even close to an agreement from what I hear.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

I would trade Springs to Detroit for 2nd or 3rd.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...and I would trade in my Honda Civic for an E-Class.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Not if you are of the thought that Pete Kendall played as well as or better than Dock. If stupid is letting someone go who is commanding the highest salary for his position, and brining in someone for 2 years at 1.5 mill per, or whatever he made, to play just as well if not better, than I will take stupid every time. And if you think Dock is way better than Kendall, well now they stand to bring him back in at a much lower price than 7 mil per year, and they just might get to keep Kendall as well.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 26, 2009 4:47 PM

Indeed.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I can't see them signing Hall, just not their style....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | February 26, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Yes it is. Randy Moss, Corey Dillon. Belichik is all about finding down-and-out talent with a headcase reputation and rehabilitating them into stand-out team players.

But Hall does want to play here. That's partly why we beat the Pats for him during the season. If we can at least match the Pats offer, I think he'd stay.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

I see sports_dbag and periwinkle have made their returns. YAAAAY! My 1/2 cents, Dock is a good pickup. That is all.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I don't see anything on the Boston Globe site about the Pats being interested in Hall.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | February 26, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I would trade Springs to Detroit for 2nd or 3rd.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 26, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...and I would trade in my Honda Civic for an E-Class.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009 4:49 PM

You can go both ways with this.

Are you saying that the Lions aren't that stupid to make that deal (my assumption), or that Springs is worth more than a 2nd and 3rd.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I have a looming feeling that tomorrow morning at about 8:30AM when I get on the computer to check the FA activity, I'm gonna be doing a big fat face-palm.

We're gonna have signed Haynesnotworthit to a $120mill contract. Hall would have gone to another team. We lowball Dockery (again) and miss out on him. And we cave in to giving Canty 7-8million a year.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

What does it benefit the skins to restructure contracts? All it's doing is moving cap space (signing bonus spread among years of contract instead of salary) from this year to future (years). It only fixes things, and its limited, for THIS year. I would like to know of the current amount the skins have tied up against the cap, HOW MUCH of this is DEAD MONEY and/or BONUS money on aging players? Part of our cap problem now is we can't cut these underperforming players because whether we cut them or not, they'll count against the cap because of an earlier restructuring they did in some previous year to save cap space in THAT year. We just keep repeating the cycle every year. :(

Posted by: bamaboy1 | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM |

I'm not trying to be a jerk but honestly, did you just become a fan of the Redskins this year? Dan Snyder has been restructuring contracts in the off season to open up cap space for years and years. This is nothing new. He has more than any other owner in the league exploited the biggest loophole in the salary cap. And while it may or may not have helped us on the field, there is no question that he has been successful at doing it. If you have unlimited money, it makes sense.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 26, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

From PFT,

MOORE’S RELEASE PUTS JETS $36 MILLION UNDER UNADJUSTED CAP
Posted by Mike Florio on February 26, 2009, 4:41 p.m. EST
As expected, the Jets have cut starting right guard Brandon Moore, according to Dave Hutchinson of the Newark Star-Ledger.

Moore was due to receive a roster bonus of $7 million and a base salary of $620,000.

Hutchinson says that the move frees up $7 million in 2009 cap space, and that the Jets are now roughly $36 million below the salary limit of $127 million.

The only catch is that so-called “not likely to be earned” incentives that were achieved last year by Jets players will push the 2009 limit downward. The specific number of the adjustment has not been reported; it’s not even known whether the teams have been provided this information. (Presumably, they have.)

Right tackle Damien Woody is expected to move to Moore’s spot, and Robert Turner or Wayne Hunter will replace Woody.

Posted by: Flounder21 | February 26, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Sign Dock and try to keep the current defense in tack. Skins need to focus on offense and while Dock is not exactly someone to build a team around, he is an upgrade and, relatively speaking, young. We could do a lot worse than him. Try to keep Kendall as a backup. Cut Thrash and go after Nate Washington - we need a 3rd (heck a 2nd too) receiver and playmaker. He has a little size, some speed and has 15+ Yards per catch for his career. Call it quits with FA unless some other offensive playmaker becomes available.

For teh draft, although unlikely, if they can trade down and draft Heyward-Bey (big and way fast but unpolished), do it. Otherwise, take Oher. Think offense this year. Too many receivers competing for jobs is a good thing for this team. We need playmakers - our offense is the problem.

Posted by: amaranthpa | February 26, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

"How stupid does this make the Skins look?

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 26, 2009"

Pretty smart actually, if they can get him for a really low price, befitting a 3rd rounder in the end Buffalo would be paying him to play for the Skins out of their deadcap.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I never thought Dockery was all that when he was here. Same as the other guy with the dreads. Tre' Johnson I think. He is younger than what we have, and is not a down grade. If I could have him replace Fabini or Kendall it is an upgrade. Other wise I don't think he is even an upgrade over "hurt again Jansen". Have we not learned yet to just wait a few weeks and see what other team do? Remember when we signed Mark Brunnell to a contract double what he would have gotten anywhere else and then 4 or 5 QB's that were bette than him changed teams for less? As far as Haynesworth goes I am shocked anyone is going for this. He is a tub of lard that played hard for two contract years for this payday. he will now "pac man" or "big mac" himself out of the league.

Canty would be a good pick-up, and so would Brookes. I think if I was going to jump fast, it would be for Brookes and Ray Lewis, but I wouldn't jump too fast at even him. At least you know you will get all out effort from them, and then you can dump them next year during the non cap year when the guys you drafted this year have learned at the knee of the master.

Take a lesson from MLB. You will be able to get bargains in a few months. I hope Haynesworth becomes footballs version of Manny Ramirez, and is still looking for work in July. 100 million? Gieve me a break!

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

If the Patroits really want Hall, they'll remove the franchise tag from Cassel and let him be.

Since I think that they're more concerned with QB than CB, which is why Cassel was tagged in the first place, I don't expect the Patroits making a serious offer to Hall.

If I'm worried about any team, it's Dallas - their secondary is terribly horrid.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Red,

Your first assumption is correct.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"I'm gonna be doing a big fat face-palm.

Posted by: p1funk | February 26, 2009"

Vinnie sez "talk to the hand".

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

"I see sports_dbag and periwinkle have made their returns. YAAAAY! My 1/2 cents, Dock is a good pickup. That is all.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2009"

I see scramblebrains1975 is still itching for an alt.flame war. I guess some just just love to be abused ... ~wicked smile~

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

1994 was the start of my enthusiam for football, I started to follow it like I do today.

Anyway I was looking at 'skins roster from the '94 season - you know, the season they went 3-13.

I was curious to see who was on the team at that time, and could those guys be that bad, in a word - yes.

How many people remember Marc Boutte, Dexter Nottage, and John Friesz?

I do. Especially Marc Boutte.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

What system does Dr. Hold know? Wasn't that the OBC and Gibbs system when he was here? Does Zorn run the same system?

As for trading Portis for a slew of draft picks, that won't happen. The guy who would do that is the GM for the 'Skins and the last time I checked, the League won't let you trade with yourself.

As for the person who posted the insult, you really need to learn to spell.

Posted by: pjente | February 26, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dbrine1261

"OK here is the thing. The way good teams stay good is not by drafting for need now. They draft for need a few years from now. That is the reason the redskins should draft the highest rated MLB on the board with their first pick."

All the more reason to draft a stud DE like Orakpo. How old/productive are are current DEs Daniels, Evans, Taylor, Wilson, Carter, Jackson...the sack totals from last year say not very productive and Taylor has seen better days, though I still think he has alot left in the tank, we just utlized him wrong last year and should have left him on the right side and moved Carter to the left. After all how many Pro Bowls does Taylor have as opposed to Carter? Not even Close. You are also forgetting we already have a young MLB on the roster already H.B. Blades who frequently spelled LF and can play all three backer positions. "They draft for need a few years from now." This is what the did here with the MLB position.

And as for "Next year when there is no cap, you restructure the contracts to eat the entire signing bonus and cut all the cap anchors and eat their bonus too, all in the no cap year. You come out of it with no baggage, and start over again with a bunch of veterans and draft picks in the bank. Actually I would consider, just for this year trading away every pick after the first round and filling in the rest of the team with FA."

You have to plan your roster as if the owners and players will come up with a new CBA. In the event that it doesn't happen, I agree, this will be an opportune time for you to dump all of your dead weight, but you cannot give up all of your picks this year for FA's just for that reason. If a new CBA is reached and you pass on some of the talent coming out of this years draft, you could hurt yourself in the future. No team, even ours as FA happy as we are, will ever be dominant by soley picking up FA's off of the street and not drafting and grooming talent from the college ranks. Remeber Snyders first FA splash, how'd that work out for us?
Draft, Draft, Draft, less on the FA...only use when needed. In case of emergency, break glass...that's my take on FA.

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I see scramblebrains1975 is still itching for an alt.flame war. I guess some just just love to be abused ... ~wicked smile~

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 5:04 PM

Wow, i bet you still play dungeons and dragons in your daddies basement while you whack off to you moms over 60 underwear catalogs.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Oe last thing, and I guess I get bombed for saying this, I agre with the guru. I think Jason Campbell is terrible. Just terrible. He will never learn not to stare down his receiver on longer routes, he will never learn how to throw the sideline route, his balls always will sail, he will never think any faster, he will always hold onto the ball too long, and he will always fumble and fumble and fumble. And that is only the obvious flaws. It never ceases to amaze me the slack he gets. He avoids a rush or two and it is front page news. What does that tell you? Our expectations of him are so low that if he doesn't throw a pick he had a great game. Now don't take it too far, I am not a Colt Brennan fan either as MY footwork is better than his. Our QB is not on the team yet. We all know Jason's sad story of 6 offensive coordinators in 7 years. Boohoo.

I am willing to say, if he throws at least 25 TD's, with less than 15 interceptions, loses less than 4 fumbles while throwing for 4000 yards, I will concede that I am wrong. Those are not all those lofty standards. Less than a pick a game, 250 yards, a fumble every 4 games, and a little more than 1 1/2 TD per game. I think that is fair. The question is how long must he not reach these mediocre goals before people wake up and concede that I am right? The answer is never if it follows the standard on here. How many picks did he throw last year 13? After throwing none the forst 8 games I think. So 13 picks in 8 games and you wonder how we can't make the playoffs. Come on.

Like I said, I am trying to be fair. Somebody come up with their own standard of being a good QB and see if he can even measure up to that. I would love to see us pick up a veteran and actually give us a chance.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

One more year in Zorn's system, and the improvement of Kelley,Davis, and Thomas, and an upgrade of the O Line, I'll bet the house that JC improves this year. Sports Guru put your crack pipe down, JC is nowhere near the most pressing problem on this team. Get real!! He was 6-2 the first half of the season with hardly an int,in the second half of the season the o line breaks down, with a glaring weakness at RT. Tom Brady wouldn't have been able to do sh#t under those circumstances!!!

Posted by: 72Redskins | February 26, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"I am willing to say, if he throws at least 25 TD's, with less than 15 interceptions, loses less than 4 fumbles while throwing for 4000 yards, I will concede that I am wrong."

So you're waiting for Jason Campbell to become a 1st-team all-pro QB to admit that you're wrong. Got it.

Posted by: psps23 | February 26, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

dbrine, you won't get bombed for saying that. Sports_dbag gets torched because he is consistently (along with poolman and periculum) one of the stupidest posters here. His irrational hatred of JC and his inability to discuss anything else gets him lit up. As far as being terrible, I wouldn't go that far. JC's not great that's for sure, but terrible (in my mind) is Kordell Stewart, Patrick Ramsey level.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dbrine1261

"I would love to see us pick up a veteran and actually give us a chance."

Leftwich is available, and for some reason as an opponent seems to consistently torch us every game. Rather have him on my side than on somone elses. Besides, picking him up may be what JC needs to get his act together. I mean really, who was there to push him as a starter last year Todd Collins? OMG and please nobody say Colt Brenan, please!!! I might puke all over my screen. He looked good in preseason against guys trying to earn final roster spots and he got lucky on some of his throws, which should have been picked. The guys who missed those picks are still looking for work. Leftwich, when healthy is a good QB with a quicker release than JC. They really improved his mechanics in Steeltown. He even looked better than Big Ben who won the Superbowl, and he has a ring which he could floss daily and motivate JC to strive for greater things this season.

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Of course you can build your team through FA and succeed. You just can't do it by getting the FA that have already had their big years. See here is the problem and it;s not FA. The problem is you must be able to evaluate talent. Teams who can't evaluate college players, probably don't do any better predicting young NFL talent to get better either.

Teams that are good at the draft (Patriots) are also good at getting the right FA because in addition to their college carreers they have an NFL resume to evaluate as well. Call it the already in the NFL combine if you will.

The teams that can't evaluate talent have to rely on straight out stats, and as I said, for the most part guys who already have the stats are on their way down, not up.

Nothing wrong with building through FA, which is where I would find the players in the positions you spoke of. The positions you want to fill are needs right now and need a man that can play right now, not a college boy. Draft picks are for drafting college boys to learn at the knee of a still very good player, because that player only has a short time left. last if you really believe HB Blades is the answer at MLB, you may be the Redskins talent evaluator after all becuae you are just as bad at it.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Don't worry about the cap. I hear Brian Noble and Brandon Lloyd come off the books at the quarter-century mark. With all this restructuring, I guess Samuels and Griffin final payments will go their estate. This team will not win until Snyder assumes room temperature. Face it!

Posted by: lppost | February 26, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

How many people remember Marc Boutte, Dexter Nottage, and John Friesz?

I do. Especially Marc Boutte.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 26, 2009 5:06 PM

I remember all 3 and I was 14 at the time.

DMV - You are that young that you missed even the last SuperBowl? Your loyalty runs deeper than mine than........

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 26, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

'...Don't worry about the cap. I hear Brian Noble and Brandon Lloyd come off the books at the quarter-century mark...'


This happens sometime after Trung Candidate is franchised tagged.

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: dbrine1261

"Of course you can build your team through FA and succeed. You just can't do it by getting the FA that have already had their big years. See here is the problem and it;s not FA. The problem is you must be able to evaluate talent. Teams who can't evaluate college players, probably don't do any better predicting young NFL talent to get better either."

Always good to see someone who has football smarts. Cerrato for years, has been our problem. We traded down from the 1st round thinking Philip Meling would fall to us in the second round and the Tuna 1 up'd us and snatched him. We passed on DeShawn Jackson and he ran a punt back on us. We constantly pick up FA that simply just don't pan out. Cerrato should have been Matt Millened along time ago. It's still not too late to do so. In the event this does happen, prime candidates for Redskins GM should be Charlie Casserly, or NFL Network's Mike Mayock, who is by far the best NFL talent evaluator I've seen, far surpassing Kiper and McShay.

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

While Mack is a very strong center, packs a punch, Max Unger is a lesser known guy who would fit a lot better into our system. He is a drive blocker, not as strong as mack, but he is an excelent pass blocker, he's the kind of center who can pull around the tackle and make plays in space. if he can make blocks on Linebackers in space im sure he can block slow DTs in a 3 yd window. I love Mack, but he would be more a guard in our scheme and Unger would be the better center

Posted by: DaFunBunch | February 26, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

'...Don't worry about the cap. I hear Brian Noble and Brandon Lloyd come off the books at the quarter-century mark...'


'This happens sometime after Trung Candidate is franchised tagged.'


This just in.......Danny Wuerfell just recieved his last game check.

Posted by: bigpnE71 | February 26, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

The minivan is packed.

The Gulf of Mexico awaits.

Moe leaves his last droppings on the statute that is RI Nayshun (least until Tues.)

Sign Dockery. Move Samuels to rt. Use Rhino as a guard back up. Use Heyer as a tackle back up. Draft Smith/Monroe/Oher.

Create the following o-line depth chart:

lt= rookie (Oher/Smith/Monroe-back up Heyer)

lt= Dockery (back up= Rhino)

c= Rabach (last year? =back up Jansen)

rg= Thomas (last year? back up =Rhino)

rt= Samuels (back up= Heyer)

te= Davis (blocker first, pass catcher 2nd)

Line issues resolved until 2010.

Now, if only D Thomas beats out Randle El as slot receiver...........

Posted by: MistaMoe | February 26, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I could get behind a Leftwich pickup and still root for Campbell to get better. A healthy and trimmed down Leftwich looked very good when he played against us. To the guy who defended Campbell after my last post. I dont hate him, I just don't think he will improve. He has not improved at all yet, and to say that an all pro would not have done better in Tom Brady is absurd. I take that back, he did duck a few rushes last year and step into a few throws after, and he did make a few nice runs the 2nd half of the year. And you are right, Brady would not have done better with his leg in a cast as it was all year.

Campell did not throw an interception in the first half of the season its true, but it was only because some other players have as bad a hands as Rodgers, and again without an interception in the first half he finished with 13 the last half. We never had a chance. Noone can defend his propensity to fumble, hold the ball too long, or stare down receivers. I can tell from my seat who he is going to throw to within 1 second of the snap because he has made snap throw to the quick route, or he is staring down his primary receiver. You think NFL Safeties can't do that?

And again, I gave you the chance to give something you thought reasonable, but all you did was pick at mine. I think the numbers I gave are reasonable, barely less than an interception per game, 1.5-2 TD per game, 250 yards per game, and don't fumble more than once each 4 games. He gets sacked a lot because he holds the ball too long as much as the bad line. Even at that he only gets sacked about 12 times in 4 games. he can't hold on to the ball 11 out of 12 times? Which stat is unreasonable to expect from our 3rd year starter? So what level of mediocrity do you think will get us into the playoffs with a chance to go further? Certainly not what we are getting. You must see this don't you?

I am glad you are fans, and I applaud your optimism, but what is it based on? Hope? Certainly not because he has shown you glimpses of greatness.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

Leigh (blank)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 26, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

We can't get rid of Randle El. He is the most accurate passer we have.


OK I am done talking about Jason Campbell and stealing money from my company blogging with you guys, though it's fun. I am going home.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | February 26, 2009 5:50 PM | Report abuse

What about signing a running back to back-up Portis...Betts is not the answer.. that why we struggle last year too... I know we need a OL, LB, CB, hansworth, but we need a RUNNING BACK!!!! FRED TAYLOR OUT there..vinny!!!

Posted by: taylormade218 | February 26, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

"While Mack is a very strong center, packs a punch I love Mack, but he would be more a guard in our scheme and Unger would be the better center

Posted by: DaFunBunch | February 26, 2009"

They do need guys who can play multiple positions given the history of injuries on the OL.

That said, I don't care as long as they go to the draft for at least 2 quality offensive (one starting tackle) linemen. Not schlubs like Rhinehart. Guys who can come in and start after the usual requisite minicamps and preseason. Guys who will pick up the system and eventually excel as the season goes on. 1st round caliber (even if they are chosen in the 2nd). Not 2nd == 3rd rounders or worst. That really has to end for them to have an reasonable chance of success.

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

lppost,

I'm with you on Snyder. We might win the offseason again, but it appears Snyder is incapable of learning. Until he is gone, there is no hope of sustained sucess.

A guest blogger recommended boycotting everything that sends money to Snyder except season tickets. I turned in mine, with a note requesting a new owner. The woman on the phone at Redskins Park asked why I was dropping my tickets and she laughed when I told her it was because of Snyder. My cousin is turning in at least two and maybe all four of her tickets also. Get half the stadium to drop there seats this year and that might get his attention.

Posted by: Snydersucks | February 26, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

"Don't worry about the cap ... and Brandon Lloyd come off the books

Posted by: lppost | February 26, 2009"

Lloyd counts 5 million against the cap this year. That's a starting OL at the very least.

But that's the Snidely and Vinnie show.

Snidely kiss a*& agent calls snidely:

"Redskins dead cap morgue; you find them we sign them can I help you?"

"Yes I have an overpriced free agent with zero motivation but Pro Football Weekly says has a lot of potential. Are you interested?"

"Yes of course, we love our dead cap, we offer regular funerary services for the deceased daily. We give them lots of money so they can make whoopie with their honeys."

"Wonderful, and can you send your meatwa ... err flying hearse, Redskins 1 to pick him up?"

"Of course, our friendly attendants always cater to dead cappers and their immediate family and friends."

Posted by: periculum | February 26, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

We just keep repeating the cycle every year. :(

Posted by: bamaboy1 | February 26, 2009 1:24 PM |

Well, duh. Its why we are the offseason kings! This is what our FO truly excels at. Personnel evaluation, scouting, fiscal responsibility...bah, thats for pansies. Real FO men suck it up, put all their chips in one spot and spin the wheel.And if,or when, it doesn't work, well, as soon as the season is over.....we get all pumped up and we do it again!!!

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 6:06 PM | Report abuse

TSN- This is depressing-

"The Redskins reportedly are putting together an offer that would pay Haynesworth $1 million per game--for five years. But when you figure that Haynesworth averages only 12 games per year, it's really more like $1.4 million per game. He's not that good."

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Having Moore as a FA is good news -- will give leverage in negotiating with Dock and/or Brown. It looks like it may cost less to sign some quality OL FA.

I'll just add my voice -- Jason Campbell is a quality starting QB. It is not possible to prove otherwise unless you resort to a bunch of hand-waving BS, which I do not accept as proof.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm about to say, but you guys who think JC17 sucks are idiots.

Posted by: dpc2003 | February 26, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Please no to Haynesworth and yes to Dockery at a cheap price. Our defense was very good and also consider the amount of time they spent on the field after numerous thre and outs by the pathetic offense. Why can't we model ourselves after Pitt, NYG, NE, they certainly don't jump for the big names.

Posted by: joeboggs | February 26, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

all_star_0013 said it right when they said that the Redskins should not bet the farm on Haynesworth. Skills wise, he could help our team. I say could because he’s an injury concern to me. Defense, we have to fill some holes (DT and MLB) but our greatest concern is our offense. "Haynesworth can’t win us games if our offense only scores 12 points!" We need offensive linemen (plural) more than anything else. We’re a run first team, we need guys on the line that will open up holes for Portis and also give Campbell the time to throw the ball down field. The Redskins have fast WRs and Campbell has a great arm, but only has time to get off a short pass.

Posted by: wm_adoro | February 26, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

More TSN-
Best buys
Demetric Evans, DE, Washington Redskins. He's kind of been a work in progress in Washington, and his best football is ahead of him. He can start off as a reserve in end rotation with the potential to break out as a consistent pass rusher with the right coaching.

So he's a bargain.

Posted by: will_ga | February 26, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

dbrine, go read psps23's posts from today alone. You say "Noone can defend his propensity to fumble".

Last year he ended the season as the #1 QB in INT percentage per pass and #1 in turnover percentage per pass.

I ask: what propensity to fumble?

"He gets sacked a lot because he holds the ball too long..."

But I say it's because the OL can't pass-block. We seem to be at an impasse, since neither of us can prove directly which is the case.

However, I look at JC's average per completion and it's very low -- 24th in the league. That tells me he's throwing a lot of short passes, meaning he's getting rid of the ball fairly quickly on average. So I have some numbers that can by extension prove my point.

Finally, there is this thing called QB rating. Here are a few QB's who finished the year with a lower rating than Campbell:
Collins, Rothlisberger, and Flacco. Strangely, these 3 guys had the best 3 defenses in the league! Oh, and Brett Farve finished with a lower rating too.

Look I understand that you don't like Jason Campbell as a QB. I think it's because your expectations are way too high, especially considering the talent that is surrounding him. In fact, your expectations are way too high for any QB unless they're Joe Montana, and/or having a career year.

Go back and look at what you want out of a QB, and find how many have done that for 2 out of 4 consecutive years. You can go back through 1990. Let us all know how many QB's have done it. Maybe you'll surprise us all!


Posted by: dpc2003 | February 26, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Guess Buffalo wants to get rid of all things Redskins - heard they released Robert Royal as well as Dock.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 26, 2009 6:47 PM | Report abuse

IMHO, I think this whole "to sign 'Bert 'Worth or not to sign" is missing the boat altogether. Just as those proclaiming he will save the team are wrong, so too are those saying this would be a huge mistake.

the fact is we can afford him. We are unmatched in our ability to restructure contracts, and we have the owner with the biggest checkbook in the league.

the fact also remains that you HAVE to draft well in order to win championships in the NFL. This ain't the NBA, where the Celts can bring in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett and BOOM - championship. You need 22 guys JUST TO START, and that doesn't include the vital special teams aspect of the game. You need depth, you need leaders on both sides of the ball. One man does not a championship team make, not even close.

I'd pass if I were in charge but go ahead, sign Haynesworth. He'll be overpriced but will definitely help. But for God's sake, start to treat draft picks like gold and not toilet paper.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | February 26, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Why do you guys keep hating Snyder? He's a owner willing to spend his money back on the team at whatever cost. If you guys ran a team, wouldn't you want to get the best free agents? I would. If you ever play madden and use draft mode don't tell me you picked up bargins or second tier players. I admit we don't always come out on top but we are fair share of good free agents, (shawn Springs, Griffin, M. Washington, Randy thomas, casey rabach, London f., Santana Moss(trade) and a few other) We could have had an owner willing not to spend. I don't mind synder. he might not get it right all of the time but he loves this team as much as we do.

Posted by: why-hate | February 26, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

I hope thye get him back, but man are they stupid for letting him go in the first place.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | February 26, 2009 4:40 PM

It would seem to me that it was Buffalo who was stupid, not Washington. They paid a $16.5 million signing bonus and then cut him after two years. How is Washington stupid, again?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 6:57 PM | Report abuse

beep beep. i'm home and the guys have on their blogging shoes. let's go.

Posted by: CindyBoren | February 26, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

A guest blogger recommended boycotting everything that sends money to Snyder except season tickets.

Posted by: Snydersucks | February 26, 2009 6:02 PM

This was the same guy who wanted to see Snyder layoff more employees, right?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

why-hate - see my post above.

p.s. I don't hate Snyder. I loathe him. there is a fine but distinct line

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | February 26, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

I like the move. They need more linemen and he has played here before and was productive. He played well next to Samuels. He is still a young player.

Posted by: bigjofc | February 26, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

As for haynesworth I do think it is a mistake. but he is the best available. He looks a lot like sean gilbert did when he went to the panthers or better yet big dana stubblefield. I say we sign good players but not the best one. I would look at angelo crowell, chris canty, deangelo hall, derrick dockery, brandon moore, dj hackett, even kalif barnes and sniff at jonathon vilma even though we have a good mlb.

Posted by: why-hate | February 26, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Was dbrine being sarcastic?
"25 TD's, with less than 15 interceptions, loses less than 4 fumbles while throwing for 4000 yards".

Tom Brady:
2007 50/8/4: check
2006 24/12/4: close
2005 26/14/3: check
2004 28/14/5: close
2003 23/12/5: nope!
2002 28/14/5: close

Ok, a first-ballot HOF player did it. How about Payton Manning? Yup, every year back to 2002, when he threw 19 picks. Another first-ballot HOF.

Donovan McNabb -- in his entire career he hit those numbers twice, 2004 and 2001.

Rothlisberger once, 2007. Romo, never. LB Manning, never.

Drew Brees has done it twice (2006, 2004)and came close a couple of more times.

But I think I've proven my point: you are asking a LOT from a QB.

Posted by: dpc2003 | February 26, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah...that continues the Skins' policy. Brilliant ! Let's see...now our offensive line would have 2 old, often-injured tackles, an undrafted player, another coaxed out of retirement, two guys that were waived by other teams...great, just great!!

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

if price is RIGHT, bring back DD is not a bad move.....oh and with 13th pick in this year's draft, we have to get us a new owner.... how about sending all 4 picks for swapping owner and GM with NEW ENGLAND?!

Posted by: imageClass | February 26, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

I don't know how you'd evaluate an offensive lineman without seeing him practice and watching a whole lot of tape on him. I'm pretty sure most of the folks who post here haven't done either. So the passion to sign this one or avoid signing that one -- it mystifies me.

Linemen need to be seen up close, even if it's just with a stop-action camera. Half the time, the coaches on the sidelines or up in the press box can't really see what's happening inside the tackles.

And the sort of athleticism that gets so much attention at the Combine and the various pro days -- how much does it really matter in the fourth quarter of a tough game? Like the saying goes: he may not be an athlete, but he's a hell of a football player.

Well, i guess we have to have something to talk about, other than the economy.

Posted by: Samson151 | February 26, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

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