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Skins Lose, 27-24

Well, at least it didn't require overtime to settle this.

Again, I'm an idiot for predicting a Skins win. I thought they would hold onto the ball and pound it out, but Clinton Portis was pretty poor again today, the fumble changed the game, and the defense, despite its lofty spot at fifth overall, could not fluster a weak NFL quarterback. It created only one turnover, had no pass rush, and wilted in the fourth quarter.

The 49ers were picking on Rocky McIntosh, Fred Smoot and Kareem Moore with great success during the comeback, and Jason Campebell's feet were about all the Skins had on offense.

So the season ends on a game-winning field goal for the 49ers (who finish 5-2 and by all reports will have Mike Singletary as their coach next season), and the Skins finish 8-8, still unable to put up back-to-back nine-win seasons since 1992.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 28, 2008; 6:21 PM ET
 
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Comments

last....as in last game. on to our offseason where it will really get interesting. kinda like "double jeapordy"

Posted by: gregskins | December 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

oh oh oh "first"...how lame

Posted by: intense1212 | December 28, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

first id like to thank Vinny cerato for a bust draft!!!!

Posted by: jiza32 | December 28, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

2-6!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

but Clinton Portis was pretty poor again today, the fumble changed the game, and the defense, despite its lofty spot at fifth overall, could not fluster a weak NFL quarterback. It created only one turnover, had no pass rush, and wilted in the fourth quarter.

This is exactly right.

Jason Taylor had a terrible game.

CUT

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

RePost

More bad coaching by Zorn. Fourth and Goal and he calls timeout too early. They could have run another 30 or so seconds. The difference in OT and losing in regulation. Lots of bad playcalling. Horribly designed plays. He better learn a lot this offseason.

Fire Snyder.

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Barf. See you up here at minicamp, where we are champs.

Thongs, Panties, and Edible Underwear to you all this holiday season.

Posted by: Pulldownclaw | December 28, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Solid game by the offense. To me, that's about the maximum that I expect this offense to look like when it's fully "flowing". There is nothing that I have seen this season that makes me think "wow, this could be a truly dangerous offense one day."

As far as the result of the game....at least we boost our stock in draft picks.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

You had a bad day,
You had a bad day,

Your team is mediocre and they threw it away,

you had a bad day."

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

LMAO!

I figure they'll atleast have the number 12-14 pick in the draft. And a weaker schedule, and atleast Zorn will go into the off season knowing his offense still sucks.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Looks like they'll be picking between 12 to 15. Not that Cerrato is capable of drafting anyone who can play. They'll pick some guy with bad knees who would be rated in the top 5 otherwise. The knees will give him injuries for 4 years, then he retires...Can we say Thomas and McIntosh?

Posted by: Snydersucks | December 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't agree with Riggo that much these days but have to agree with him today. No reason not to play the young guys to see what we have. He said Zorn is good QB coach but that's about it. Not a good O coord or head coach.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

We do suck but still if we had beaten the Rams and Bengals we'd be in the playoffs. Philly and Arizona don't belong there either. If Zorn is unwilling to change and open it up, they can fire him. I'd rather watch Gibbs boring offense anyday over dink and dunk. We could bring Brunell back if thats what we are gonna do.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | December 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

The problem with Washington is they are just mediocre enough to leave everythign in place. This team is lukewarm and I do not see that changing until we let Zorn and company have 3-4 subpar seasons.

Posted by: pkmksk | December 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Redskins are simply a mediocre team with bad ownership (worst in NFL?), bad coaching (Zorn's ego matches his hair!) and bad players (who is Clintom's alter ego this week - LOL). Shaun Hill (not drafted) outplayed Campbell (# 1 pick) - end of story and problem in a nutshell. Synder and Cerrato could not win the in the CYO league! In his 10 years as owner, what is Synder's overall record?

Posted by: jhuterp | December 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Looks like from my very basic calculations, we will now have the 15th pick in the upcoming draft. I hope there's a couple elite linemen to choose from at that spot.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

psp,

If we still have the pick, who knows what WR they might trade it away for.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 28, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Soups will NEVER be more than what he is right now,he is Quincy Carter without the drugs,thats all he will ever be.Flaaco is better than him right now and it has absolutely nothing to do with systems,he has better instincts.Imagine how much better he is going to be than Soups in 3 years.Soups is very average at best.

Posted by: smittdiddy | December 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

The agony of the regular season is over!! Let the offseason begin!! This is our time - lets show the rest of the league who's boss.

Posted by: tartanskin | December 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Remember when they were saying the NFC East is the best in the league? What a joke now!

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

"Remember when they were saying the NFC East is the best in the league? What a joke now!"


NFC East still beat the NFC South, 4-0.

NFC East always beats each other up.

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I only caught bit-and-pieces of this but it sure looked like McIntosh was struggling out there. No explosion, et cetera.

I hope his career isn't over. Doctors can do incredible things nowadays; but they can only do so much.

Man, they need O- and d-lineman, linebackers, wide receivers, a second safety (Doughty?)...

They do have 17 draft picks this year, right?

Posted by: SteveMG | December 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Thank goodness it's all over. That was painful watching the 'Skins this year. I hung around the Kool-Aide stand and considered taking a swig when times were good. We beat hated division rivals on the road and the world was our oyster. Then the St. Louis debacle reminded me that these when Li'l Dan is in charge, this is the REAL team I am pulling for week after week. I wonder what they will screw up this off season?

Posted by: splitbill | December 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Where's the count on half-time leads/collapsing? Is that at one?

The silver lining in this loss is not the draft position as the higher the pick the more money you have to spend but the schedule.

The 'skins get Detroit and the Rams (cough) while the cowboys get the Packers and Seahawks.

Posted by: bangkokben | December 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...But wasn't it SWEET! to watch Dallas get there @sses handed to them!

HA!

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Hey Guys,

it's not like we just lost 44-6 to the Eagels with the playoffs on the line after we were EVERYBODY's pick to win the superbowl!!

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

Boy, I am sure am glad we gave away a couple high draft picks for J Taylor. He sure was worth it.

Posted by: pkmksk | December 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

For all the Jason Campbell haters, he essentially carried this team today (literally, with his legs).

I don't know how many times I heard Tony Boselli criticize this offense for never taking shots downfield or for having spread formations where 4-5 WRs run 4-5 yard routes each, but I've been saying this for the entire second half of the season. I don't care what QB you put back there, nobody is going to put up big numbers in that type of scheme. This is not a west coast offense. It's half of a west coast offense.

I truly, truly hope that Zorn has been keeping a LOT hidden from the playbook this season. If not, I see almost no upside here.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

I am in the minority, but what doomed the Redskins was:

--stupid penalties
--dropped balls
--incomplete passes
--missed FG's
--missed turnovers
--stupid fumbles
--dumb interceptions
--blocked punts

The problem is that the Redskins had a chance to win almost all eight of the games that they lost. The only one that was probably out of reach was the first Giants game. Even then they only lost 16-7.

On the one hand we aren't the Detroit Lions, which went 0-16. We didn't go 4-12 or 5-11. But 8-8 is also subpar for this team.

At this point my initial suggestions are perhaps to get rid of Sean Suisham and draft a FG kicker who can actually make field goals. I would also get rid of John Jansen and improve the Offensive Line. I'd also get another running back to groom as Portis's successor because he won't be able to play forever.

My other dream would be for Snyder to fire Vinny Cerrato. But that's not going to happen.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Dear Mr. Snyder,
Please fire Vinny.
Thanks,
Redskins Fans
P.S.
Feel free to trade anyone associated with the "U"

Posted by: robb9crock | December 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

"...could not fluster a weak NFL quarterback."

Talk about a sore loser. Actually, Hill has been well above average since he got the starting job.

The Niners aren't a great team, but neither are the Foreskins. You should be used to it by now, no?

Posted by: demingk | December 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Report abuse

I remember how I felt after we won the first game in Philly and to fall to this depth of mediocrity is such a dissapointment.

Posted by: will_ga | December 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

A bit of contrast...

Tampa Bay was 9-3 going into December, lost 4 straight, and limped home at 9-7.

I think TB fans are more pissed off than we are.

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

jiac,

0-16 or 8-8 doen't matter they will both be home for the playoffs, this team needs a lot more then a FG kicker.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Report abuse

jiacinto if the team started out 2-6 and rolled into a 8-8 finish then I wouldn't have a problem. (like Singltary has the 49ers) The started out 6-2 and turn out a 8-8 record. You have all these new coaches going to with what the teams does best not forcing their playbook on the team.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:44 PM | Report abuse

I am in the minority, but what doomed the Redskins was:

--stupid penalties
--dropped balls
--incomplete passes
--missed FG's
--missed turnovers
--stupid fumbles
--dumb interceptions
--blocked punts

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 7:39 PM
-------------------------------------------

Oh well, nothing to worry about then, these are just the very fundamentals of the game - i.e. be well prepared, be disciplined and protect the damn ball!

Posted by: tartanskin | December 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Jasno & Skins faithful: way out here we don't get to see the games very often. What are the ten things that have to happen to this team to return to normalcy (a Gibbs 1.0 definition of normalcy)? What moves, changes and adds can we expect: what should happen and what, given our team's management, probably will?

Posted by: shdenny | December 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

by my count- we're picking 13th in the draft due to SOS... We had the weakest SOS of the teams at 8-8...

Schedule next year won't be much easier quite frankly..
Home games:
New Orleans 8-8
Tampa Bay 9-7
Denver 8-8 or 9-7
Kansas City 2-14
St Louis 2-14

Away Games:
Atlanta 11-5
Carolina 12-4
Oakland 5-11
San Diego 8-8 or 7-9
Detroit 0-16

Our division teams in general are going to have it pretty rough
NYG- same as us- but instead of St Louis, Detroit- they get Arizona, Minnesota
Phi- same as us- but they get San Francisco, Chicago
Dal- same as us, but they get Seattle, Green Bay.

And at least I can say this-
How bout them Cowboys???? 44-6 vs the Eagles???

Posted by: stever37 | December 28, 2008 7:48 PM | Report abuse

This is for the people who keep harping on the StL and Cincy losses - name a good team the 'Skins beat.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Cowgirls also have an interesting offseason coming up.

They looked straight-awful in a must-win game. The Romo curse continues in December.

Wonder if Romo will have any competition in camp? Will T.O. be back?

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Dear Danny,

Please, please BLOW THIS THING UP and start over. I am so sick and tired of being middle of the pack.

Thanks,
A Fan (still)

Posted by: kone | December 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Report abuse

A bit of contrast...

Tampa Bay was 9-3 going into December, lost 4 straight, and limped home at 9-7.

I think TB fans are more pissed off than we are.

Posted by: swowra

YES, THEY ARE CALLING FOR JOHN 'chucky" GRUDEN'S HEAD. funny thing is, most fans and media were calling for his head even when they were 9-3. I'm sure there will be some uproar in Big D too.

Posted by: gregskins | December 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Can we win with Zorn?

Posted by: tartanskin | December 28, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Blatche, while having a good season, called a prevent defense that allowed the completion which put the 49ers in field goal range.

both Zorn and Blatche need to do their homework for next season if they want to keep their jobs.

I miss the time when I didn't expect anything out of the redskins and they didn't deliver.

Posted by: whughes1 | December 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Name a good time the Skins beat?

Philly twice and Dallas in Dallas. Where have you been?

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Can we win with Zorn?

Posted by: tartanskin

NOPE!!!!!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:59 PM | Report abuse

This is for the people who keep harping on the StL and Cincy losses - name a good team the 'Skins beat.
-------------------------------------------

Philly, twice. Just ask Tony Romo and Jerry Jones

ha ha ha
ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

lh, they beat philly twice. i really wish they hand't beaten philly last week. this is not a team that is one player, 3 players, 10 players, 1 year or 2 years away. this team needs to be blown up.(period!). 2-6! fire f. vinny!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

dallas and philly? you're kidding right- a non-playoff team and a barely wild card team?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Like I said a week or so ago Blache is overated as a D coordinator, the defense for the last six weeks has not stopped anyone especially when it has mattered(IN THE FOURTH QTR.!!!)on the 49ers winning drive somebody should have called time out to get the D organized and why not Blitz!! Hill he hadn't seen a pass rush all game long so why not throw his timing off with a blitz what did we have to lose we made this guy look like Joe Montana.As for Clinton Portis yes that fumble changed the game but again the defense let the Niner's run the ball six straight times into the end zone!! Campbell looked good specifically on the final drive he should be a lot better next year if he has someone other than Moss to throw to.They gave this game away, and one last thing if i'm Jerry Gray(secondary coach) i'd take a long look at the game film and Deangelo Hall i for one was not impressed,Carlos Rodgers is just as effective.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

The 15th pick...what a joke. With these clowns making the picks do you honestly believe that will make a difference...Not a chance

Posted by: jmh764 | December 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Report abuse

also i don't know if you guys heard or not but according to espn browns are looking at getting cowher and pioli.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Why did the cowboys go for the field goal? Down 44-3 in the fourth quarter and you give your kicker a chance to make it close? WTF? As if I ever had respect for the team in blue.

Posted by: bangkokben | December 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

They beat two playoff teams, Arizona and Eagles (twice). Their record currently reflects the team, they are an average team that with a couple of good breaks might have made the playoffs and with a few more bad breaks could of had a losing record. They Oline and Dline improvements and a couple of playmakers to be more then average.

BTW if you read the cowboys blog and swap some names the two blogs are very similiar (less the TO discussions).

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

trade Zorn for Gruden.

and Vinnie for the Bucs mascot.

Posted by: kone | December 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Get a brain hand. We beat Cincy and the Rams and we're in. Playoff bound = respectable. Don't care if you don't like how.

Posted by: edvar | December 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

a good team doesn't lose 44-6 when playing for a playoff spot.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe we were 6-2 at one point. This season was so disappointing. It was so damn outrageous. 6-2 means absolutely nothing when you finish 2-6.

It's all about the second half of the season in this league. The Eagles were terrible early on but now they're in the playoffs. They have a 2-4 division record but that doesn't matter because they win games when they do matter.

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | December 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I honestly think Dallas fans would be the most po'ed.

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

lh, philly is a strange, strange team. they beat ny and then they lost to the skins and then they beat the crap out of the girls.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

As long as the Cowboys are out of the playoffs too, I don't feel half as bad as I would (ah, schadenfreude!)

Watching the Cowgirls lose these last 2 games (horribly) makes me feel so much better!

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

edvar, i'm not blinded by fandom. their ppg and losses to the rams, bengals and 49ers speaks volumes.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I think the 15th pick will make a HUGE difference jmh. We are in need of a Tackle. There are 4-5 guys considered 1st round quality. If we can land one of those and draft for depth on the D-line and guard spots too, I think we'll be fine.

This loss stinks today, but let's not kid ourselves - the defense was playing like they were ready for golf and fishing. I give props to JC for selling out on that TD run but Moss and CP didn't seem to be all there. I don't like that but it's not overly disconcerting, IMHO. If we were playing for the playoffs, I am confident we would've never given up a 10 point lead. Moss needs to make those catches and CP needs to protect the ball, but we can't possibly say our best two players are the problem. They'll be back in a big way next year. 11-5

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

here we go again..."a couple of breaks and the skins would've made the playoffs"...i never say this but *screaming* STFU!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

p.s. Smoot seemed like he had better things to do than cover someone - anyone - today

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

okay so i found out that i have shin splints and i need to strengthen my shins...by walking on my heels?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

How do you already know what the schedules next will be like?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

dealer, did you go to WebMD after the game?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

Other then Carolina none of the teams we play next year year scare me. We need to revamp the lines. Draft D lineman, linebackers and pick up a few O lineman thru free agency. How can every team in the league, including Detroit, score more than 25 points in a game but we can't?! The real question was already asked, Can we win with Zorn? After 16 games I still don't know but I suspect not.

Posted by: jandlml | December 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Report abuse

11-5?

With the Wizards that run this team there is NO WAY.

Pass whatever ur smokin my way.

Posted by: kone | December 28, 2008 8:12 PM | Report abuse

Philly evidently!!!!!

Posted by: jiza32 | December 28, 2008 8:13 PM | Report abuse

I made this prediction a few weeks ago and several of you laughed at me but I predict the Eagles will go to the Super Bowl...and will most likely win.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 28, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

the 8 games against the AFC West and NFC South were decided back several years ago- it's on a rotating basis. The other 2 games are determined based on the results of the previous season. So this year we play the 4th place teams from the West and North from the NFC..

Looking at the draft projections...

WR available in the top 32 from Scouts Inc.
4 Crabtree Texas Tech
8 Macklin Missouri
32 Harvin Florida

I'm guessing Crabtree will go real early- now he would be perfect for our team. Macklin is too small for me. Same for Percy Harvin- and he'd be a reach most likely....

Posted by: stever37 | December 28, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

lh, no, i googled it...and the first answer i found was on slumz dot something something...and i think it comes from good authority...he writes just like me!

"04-16-2005, 05:42 AM
muscles gettin used to runnin on hard floor....dog u got shin splints....they'll be sore for like 3 weeks at most...ur muscles in ur shins aint been worked hard for a while possibly ever...everybody goes thru it...u can rest if u need to....i dunno if ur basketball is stritly recreational but just slow it down just a lil bit"

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:14 PM | Report abuse

lisa, we're still laughing at that prediction! ;) tennessee baby tennessee!! jeff fisher!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Oh I also still hate the West coast offense and CP's lack of ball protection.

Which game was it where CP fumbled the ball after making a 20 yard run from our own 1 yard line?

Posted by: MyPostIDisAfake | December 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

yeah, that sounds like someone from whom you should take medical advice.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

lh, everyone's picking your heels to win the chamionship. too bad for you.


Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Will Norv Turner return in SD next year?

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Portis fumbled late in the CLE game. The defense had to save us.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

who would you rather be a fan of?

Detroit - a team that will get nuked and have to rebuild from the ground up...

or the Redskins - a team being run by two fantasy football wizards who will not get out of the way, full of high priced, old, and spoiled players, up to their necks in dead money against the cap?

Posted by: kone | December 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

Notorius...I agree that the 15th pick would make a difference "IF" we had a GM...the problem is we don't

Posted by: jmh764 | December 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

A NOTE TO SMITDIDDY: Now who let you out of rehab?comparing Jason Campbell to Quincy Carter PLEASE!! and don't give me that Flacco krap Flacco has a great defense that gives him great field position and an O coordinator who opens up the playbook and allows him to take chances, Campbell carried this team today and if his D coordinator had a clue Campbell might have had a chance to win it in overtime and one more thing lets see what Flacco can do in the playoffs.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

They're looking pretty good right now. Ginyard's return from injury can't hurt. They're going to blow through the ACC.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I think the 15th pick will make a HUGE difference jmh. We are in need of a Tackle. There are 4-5 guys considered 1st round quality. If we can land one of those and draft for depth on the D-line and guard spots too, I think we'll be fine.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:07 PM
-------------------------------------------

All perfectly sensible but I don't think many of us have much faith in our FO to do the right thing which is why some are saying that it doesn't matter how high we'll pick in the draft.

History shows they're reluctant to seriously address the lines in the draft so it's hard to imagine them doing so this offseason even though it's obvious to all that our inability to protect our QB and knock the opposing team's QB down are a major reason for this team's failure.

Posted by: tartanskin | December 28, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

The fumble was in the Ravens game. Reed ran it in for a TD putting the Ravens up 14-0.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 28, 2008 8:20 PM | Report abuse

lol @lh...i was laughing sooooo hard when i first read that...

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

wow, painfully obvious there's too many old guys in key positions ...and we all know u can't change in one year...reality is we're way behind the curve ..will not be a quick fix ..get ready for more mediocrity into the forseeable future....sad but true ...

Posted by: dl51 | December 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Can we win with Zorn?

Posted by: tartanskin

NOPE!!!!!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:59 PM
-------------------------------------------

I'm worried you might be right JM.

Posted by: tartanskin | December 28, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

As a longtime Redskins fan, I am distressed by an owner who thinks he knows football and has ushered one of the great NFL franchises into permanent mediocrity. The idiotic free-agent signings (Jeff George, Deion Sanders), disjointed drafts (including negligence of the offensive line, which has been the main source of Skin problems this year), and a head-coach merry-go-round have ripped apart the proud, winning tradition of Redskin football. Unfortunately, the owner can only fire himself.

Posted by: dell3 | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Andrea Kremer... the most annoying voice in pro football broadcasting?

Posted by: swowra | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Tart I rather they blow up the team and go young. I can deal with two years of rebuilding with young players. Zorn prove he is not willing to change his playbook. He needs to go.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

i just checked the schedule yesterday...terps don't play a real game until the 17th i think. can't wait.

i can't believe dookies are ranked as high as they are. but you know my venom for coach K has disipated over the years...don't konw why.

but yeah you'll blow right through acc.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

caller on post game made a great point about Giants % of 1 and 2 year players on team ..about one -third ...whats our % and avg age ?? youth youth youth youth

Posted by: dl51 | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Bitter loss.

But if finishing 8-8 gives the Redskins an easier schedule, a higher 1st round draft pick and fewer national night games next year, then it may have been for the best.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

dealer, why you angry that someone might point out a glaring fact that literally 1-2 plays cost us the playoffs? Are we unique in that regard? Certainly not. But I think the point is, or the one that I would make by saying so is that we are not fundamentally on the wrong path. For all the disappointment of this second half, there was enough evidence, at least to me, to suggest that we are moving in the right direction. A Top 5 defense, Top 5-10 RB and a solid, developing 26 yr old QB. It could be a lot worse. If we don't draft at least 3 linemen out of our 4 picks, I will personally start lobbying Congress to have Vinny Cerrato removed. Perhaps not in their purview/authority, but I will not rest until that man is gone if he doesn't substantively address the trenches.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Wow,
It's unreal watching the contrast between our team and the ravens. The big difference; a competent NFL gm and an owner who spends and get's out of the way.

Draft pick after draft pick plays amazingly well (even in year one, thomas, kelly, rinehart, tryon), and their rebuilding lasts a year (instead of 10).

No point in wasting our time chatting about draft picks; the two guys making them have no idea what they're doing.

Posted by: Vinnymustgo | December 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Can we win with Zorn?

Posted by: tartanskin

NOPE!!!!!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:59 PM
-------------------------------------------

I'm worried you might be right JM.

Posted by: tartanskin

Spurrier
Turner
Gibbs
Schottenheimer
Pettibone

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

"wow, painfully obvious there's too many old guys in key positions ...and we all know u can't change in one year

Posted by: dl51"

A good GM could turn this team into a playoff team next season, while building for the future at the same time. The single season turnarounds by Atlanta, Miami, and Baltimore should be clear evidence of that (in particular Baltimore because they had a very similar "aging" problem last season with RLewis, EReed, DMason, THeap, JOgden, CMccalister, SRolle, etc).

Sad thing is that we don't even come close to having that caliber of a GM. All we'll get this season are more excuses. If Snyder had an ounce of integrity he would throw the kitchen sink at Scott Pioli.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

okay so i found out that i have shin splints and i need to strengthen my shins...by walking on my heels?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Back to foot talk huh? LOL Shin splints are painful, I had them back in high school. You need to do toe to heel raises. Bring your toes towards your heels for reps of 15 to 20.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 28, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Bitter loss.
But if finishing 8-8 gives the Redskins an easier schedule, a higher 1st round draft pick and fewer national night games next year, then it may have been for the best.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Report abuse

Totally agree.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 28, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

Hey JLC, our offense under the Z-man is art, absolute art.

It has to be, how else could you raise three-and-out to an artform like this season?

Posted by: Redskinrex | December 28, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

jm220, i'm trying to shed some fat...and i don't want to do the typical circuit and i get my cardio from basketball.

here's my routine, could you please critique it for me please:

day 1:
incline press (can't do flat...i have a bad chest) 30 seconds or less rest and then i do leg extensions and go back and forth

decline press and then glutes

6 sets of triceps

day 2:
lat pull downs and go back and forth with hamstrings with 30 seconds or less of rest in between sets

sit down rows and squats

6 sets of biceps

day 3:
6 sets of shoulders and lower back again 30 seconds of rest in between sets.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Is anyone having trouble with NBC? My audio is not working and the picture keeps blurring.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato definitely needs to go.

And it's not just the DC area that knows it, either.

Being in NYC, I was listening to Mike Francesa on WFAN Friday afternoon, and he was talking to a caller about GMs around the NFL, good and bad, and they both blasted Vinny Cerrato as a clueless waste of space.

No hesitation at all.

It's embarassing.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2008 8:34 PM | Report abuse

By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
Posted: December 28, 2008

PRINT
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With the conclusion of the regular season on Sunday, the Redskins’ 2009 opponents are set.

Along with home and away contests against NFC East opponents, the Redskins will play games against the NFC South, the AFC West, and teams from the NFC North and NFC West.

With an 8-8 record, the Redskins finished in last place in the NFC East. That means they play the fourth-place finishers in the NFC North and NFC West.

The Redskins will host the Philadelphia Eagles, Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, St. Louis Rams, Denver Broncos and Kansas City Chiefs.

The Redskins will play road games against the Eagles, Cowboys, Giants, Carolina Panthers, Atlanta Falcons, Detroit Lions, San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders.

The NFL releases its 2009 schedule in April.

Some quick notes on the 2009 schedule:

-- The Redskins play at Oakland for the first time since 1998 and at San Diego for the first time since 2001.

-- Denver visits FedExField for the first time since 1998 and Kansas City visits FedExField for the first time since 2001.

-- The Redskins play at Detroit for the second year in a row. They defeated the Lions 25-17 in Week 8.

-- The Redskins play at Atlanta for the first time since 2003.


JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

And the imbeciles on this blog call me stupid?

Replace Zorn with Gruden?

They are now going to feel the wrath of Snidely Owl, not unlike
sme fo the total idiots who post here!!!!

But not as much as if they had been blown out

The Offfensive Coordinator will be replaced. That is a lock.
Hopefully, because of my posts someone will realize that draft-wise the offense has been misplaced. They need real help from the draft and from the FA. Kicking first, OL next. OL mostly. The skill positions will have to wait.

The defense is fine if you sign Rogers, Hall, and Taylor. AND KEEP RUDY'S COACH!

Posted by: periculum | December 28, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

Can we win with Zorn?

Posted by: tartanskin

NOPE!!!!!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 7:59 PM

You are hilairous JM. Any clue what Gibbs' record in Year One was? I'm sure you know it was 8-8. Am I saying he's the next Joe Gibbs? No (although I sure hope so). But how the HELL can you all judge a first year coach on one season? You sound as impetuous as Snyder. Thank God he's willing to be a little more patient. Campbell will improve dramatically next year after 16 full games in this system and the emergence of Kelly/Thomas (Kelly), and a stud OT to replace Jansen who got real old real fast.

I hear you on being frustrated but man, have a little patience!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse


Actually you definitely CAN!!!! No doubt. The trick is winning consistently.

"and we all know u can't change in one year...reality is we're way behind the curve

Posted by: periculum | December 28, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Rumor has it that Parcells might opt out of his contract. If we got him and demoted Vinny to janitor, we'd win 3 more Superbowls. Not likely, I know but wouldn't it be nice to have someone with balls and brains running the FO?

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

The only hope you Deadskin fans have is Danny Boy took a big hit in the Maloof scandal has to sell the team.

Rumors are he may have. So maybe 5 years from now with competent ownership you can wish for the last wildcard berth.

Super Bowl not in this century.

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 28, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

sir LMG, gibbs record was 8-3 to go 8-8. while zorny's record is 2-6!!!!! to end the season. he aint no gibbs. he couldn't carry gibbs jock.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG go back and read my statement from earlier. Big difference in Gibbs team at 8-8 and Zorn. Gibbs started out 0-5 not 6-2 like Zorn. So it seems to me you are the one that don't remember

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Again LMG, all 8-8s are not created equal. The difference between Gibbs season 1 8-8 and this clusterfcuk is sizable.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Was it me or did that last drive seem like the ending of Marley and Me. Its painful its come to this, but you're glad its finally over.

Posted by: clark202 | December 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Riggins is saying Campbell should be a backup. He's been heading that way for a couple weeks now.

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Report abuse

I hear you on being frustrated but man, have a little patience!!

Posted by: Notorious_LMG

Of course, there are three rookie coaches with teams in the playoffs. Those teams also have a front office that knows what they are doing. And an owner that stays out of the way. Since the Redskins are deficient not only in talent but also front office expertise, it will be safe to say that the Redskins are the old Wizards (good enough to tease, not good enough to do anything useful). 8-8 beats 5-23 any day, but then again, neither the Skins nor the Wizards will be powerhouses anytime soon. New England will probably win with three different quarterbacks before the Redskins come close to SuperBowl glory. Face it - this is a sorry franchise, run by a sorry front office, with a meddlesome owner more interested in milking a cash cow than in actually assembling a winning team. The Ravens will win another SuperBowl soon, the Redskins belong to the toilet bowl.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

I like and root for JC, but at this point he has done just enough to fuel both the lovers and the haters...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

A season of underachievement. Trade down and get picks. If Campbell starts all of next year and they don't make the playoffs, trade or cut him.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 28, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

Notorius...I agree that the 15th pick would make a difference "IF" we had a GM...the problem is we don't

Posted by: jmh764 | December 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I would bet large sums of money that we take a lineman in the 1st round, provided we don't trade down. Probably an OT. Even a blind squirrel named Vinny finds a nut every once in a while.

And totally agreed with Mr. Redskin - Vinny has to go. I wish I knew what he had on Snyder so I could send a team of SEALS to destroy it. Yea, I know people.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

"But how the HELL can you all judge a first year coach on one season?"

Speaking of judgments, what have you seen from this season - taking into account what Zorn's primary responsibilities are - that makes you think Jim Zorn can be consistently successful in this league?

Or do we give him an extra shot "just because"?

I understand the patience argument, but you don't do it blindly. There has to be a vision for the future, something that makes you say "this is where we will be in 2-3 years". What has Zorn given us to that end?

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

Zorn's playcalling has been borderline retarded at times. I don't care what WR's, RB's, and whoever else comes in, he has to do a better job calling plays and why in hell would you still be calling conservo plays when you have nothing to lose? One thing I can guarantee with Zorn, if he throws on 1st down, it's a 95% chance he will run on 2nd down. The disturbing thing about Zorn, is that he has regressed with the playcalling and aggression.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Notorious_LMG

Norv Turner started 8-8 with an eerily similiar scenario unfolding over the season. While Zorn may not be Turner, the team has enough holes to make it impossible for him to actually do anything but win eighth games a season. Mediocrity, or something slightly below it, is the Redskins MO for the forseeable future. The fate that awaits the Redskins can be no better than the inteference that Snyder plays on this team. And since the latter will not cease, this team will continue on the road of mediocrity.

Posted by: Almazar80 | December 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Just checking in... I still live. So... 8-8? Honestly, I didn't think we'd be 8-8 back in August. It just hurts to start out 6-2 and then finish 2-6. Sorry I couldn't be a part of the conversation throughout the season. Between moving to Colorado, getting engaged, getting a new job that isn't BMGO friendly and having family in town, RI just didn't make the priority list.

Here's to a winning season next season and another unsuccessful season for the cowboys.

Posted by: Dorf | December 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

please god, a new gm for the skins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Report abuse

good to see you dorf!!! you've been missed!!! and congrats on the new job and the engagment!!! and hoping you are having fun in colorado.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 8:59 PM | Report abuse

All those who take issue with my comparison of Gibbs and Zorn's first season - does it really matter whether you win the first 8 and lose the next 8, go 0-5 and then 8-3? 6-2 then 2-6? Maybe. But the fact is both had their struggles in their first season. Sure you'd like to see the team play better near the end of the season but neither team made the playoffs. One small difference - that team had Bobby Beathard upstairs.

So are you saying Zorn doesn't deserve another chance? I have to extrapolate as much given that emphatically opined we cannot win with him. And that opinion to me is brash and absurd, given the limited body of work. Talk to me next year when we're 11-5. Maybe then you'll be saying we should give him a lifetime deal. He doesn't deserve to be gladhanded but he does deserve another season. Never ceases to amaze me how quickly people are willing to deify a man one minute and villify him the next.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:00 PM | Report abuse

LMG, Zorn was given the keys to a veteran playoff team. You could have coached them to 8-8. Better coaching may have made a difference in the winnable losses.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

LMG let me give you another thing that Gibbs did that Zorn has refuse to do this year. Gibbs saw that this wasn't a passing team first and change to the team strength. Zorn refuse to change anything and kept trying the same plays that failed week after week.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

I am now a Ravens fan. Thanks to Danny & Vinny for that. I gave up my season tickets and will not buy any more team merchandise. I just can't take it any longer, I tried to stick with this team but the never ending stupid move after stupid move the last ten years can no longer be ignored.

Posted by: jjed56 | December 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: cej75024 | December 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Another weak day for the running game. Invest in the O line and you can put anyone in the backfield (see Ravens, Falcons, Bucs, Pats, Giants, Steelers, Cowboys, etc.).

And Cambell is clearly not the answer. More bad throws and more mediocre stats. Just about every QB in the league could have hit Randle El on that post pattern, but Campbell over throws the ball once again.

More drops from Moss as well... skill players don't make a team, the O and D lines do. Vinny needs to roll out some footage of the Skins in the 80s (insert any QB, any RB and any set of WRs and still win).

Posted by: saqster | December 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

lmg, you're contradicting yourself. bobby would've never hired zorny. NEVER!!! EVER! i can't prove that but it took two idiots and 40 days and 40 rejections for them to hire zorn. you cannot compare the two my man. you just can't.

btw...these two retards (f. vinny and snyder) did what bobby did. they promoted a defensive assistant to be the def. coordinator and then hired the hc. WTF were they trying to do?????? did they think that was a recipe???????? or something...WTF!!

can we please take back those 3 lombardi trophies from these idiots.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

and another thing - as Almazar and pretty much everyone else is saying, our biggest problem is Vinny Cerrato. OK it's REALLY Snyder, but he ain't firing himself or giving up his boyhood team anytime this side of 2050. So get over yourselves and accept that he's going to be the owner probably as long as most of us live.

Sooner or later he will get rid of Cerrato. Some will say as long as the team's profitable, nothing will change. I disagree. His willingness to bring back Gibbs and give him total control was a big step in the right direction; promoting Cabanna Boy after Gibbs departure was certainly a step back. But Danny wants to win (and turn a buck). If Cerrato F's this draft up, he will be gone next year. As for Zorn - to very loosely paraphrase The Tuna, the man can be a great cook but if you keep buying him crap ingredients, there's only so much he can do.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

and again i say...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: cej75024 | December 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

LMG let me give you another thing that Gibbs did that Zorn has refuse to do this year. Gibbs saw that this wasn't a passing team first and change to the team strength. Zorn refuse to change anything and kept trying the same plays that failed week after week.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

Oh my gosh, if we could only rewind the tape to look at our comments week in and week out of those last second Gibbs' team losses - the same plays run over and over and over again. The consecutive time outs. Ohmy, how quickly we forget. Gibbs got into BIG TIME ruts. And I'm sorry, I love the man, but he wasn't all that. 2nd time around.

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"Norv Turner started 8-8 with an eerily similiar scenario unfolding over the season. While Zorn may not be Turner, the team has enough holes to make it impossible for him to actually do anything but win eighth games a season."

Norv did not go 8-8 his first season....that said you are right Zorn is no Norv....he isn't as good as HC or O cord.....and I DETEST norv!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

"One small difference - that team had Bobby Beathard upstairs."


Another small difference: Bobby Beathard hired Joe Gibbs. Vinny Cerrato hired Jim Zorn.

Now tell me, what makes you think that a man who has never been a coordinator, never been a head coach, who had no true interest anywhere else around the league, and who was originally hired as the offensive coordinator was really the best head coaching candidate out there? Because Vinny Cerrato said it?

Continuity does nothing with the wrong guys leading the charge. That's how teams turn into the 1990's Redskins. Or the 2000's Detroit Lions. And speaking of the Lions, they were also 6-2 at one point in 2007. They finished the season at 7-9. This season they're 0-16, despite their "continuity".

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

REAL QUICK GUYS I GOT MY DIR.TV STATEMENT AND THEY ARE ALREADY CHARGING ME FOR NFL SUNDAY TICKET!!!! NINE MONTH'S AWAY IS THAT CRAZY OR WHAT? APRRECIATE INPUT(SORRY FOR THE CAPS).

Posted by: dargregmag | December 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Vinny/Snyder are the top reasons the redskins suck...all other conversations are borderline pointless....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse

I agree with the Zorn haters. He was originally brought in as the offensive coordinator and his offense is, well, offensive. Spare me the nonsense of players needing 2 years to learn the system. Teams start over with new coaches and players every year and still find a way to score points.

Hell, the 49ers found a way to score more points on the Skins than any other team this year with a back-up QB and a guy who was names the coach 7 weeks ago.

No more excuses. Anyone who couldn't improve last years average offense with the same players doesn't deserve another year. We've seen enough.

Posted by: saqster | December 28, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

dargreg, are you receiving some sort of discount for signing up early?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

thanks psp23, great lions breakdown there...excuse me while I go question the universe...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Has any one checked out the list of free agents. There are some nice OL and DL players out there that could help a lot. We should petition for Julius Peppers

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/dl.html

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/ol.html

Posted by: rhymemind3 | December 28, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Big difference between WAS and DET. DET has never done much of anything. Their problems are much worse than the Redskins'. At least the Redskins ended up 8-8; DET ended up 0-16. They have hired incompetent coaches and not been able to develop their players. They finally got rid of Matt Millen.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

thanks psp23, great lions breakdown there...excuse me while I go question the universe...

Posted by: chrislarry |

AGREED

(Though now Riggins and Kevin are talking Parcells.)

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

columbiard I thought we were talking about Gibbs 1.0

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 28, 2008 9:17 PM | Report abuse

dealer, how is that a contradiction? I merely pointed out that when Gibbs came in, he had one of the best GM's in the history of the NFL culling talent for him. And your statement that he would've NEVER hired Zorn? That is completely ludicrous and by your own admission, quite clearly impossible to prove and hence not even worth discussing.

Do you agree that the bigger problem is not our general (Zorn), it's the Commander in Chief and his inept SecDef? If so, I just can't understand all the anti-Zornism. He deserves at least two full seasons. I am baffled as to why the notion that this team was "a couple plays from the playoffs" angers you so. But them's the facts, Jack. Deny it all you want. But if Kendall doesn't try to run with that fumble versus STL and Mike Sellers doesn't fumble at the 6 inch line against Cincy, we are in the playoffs. Can't prove that, but I feel very confident in saying that. I was at the game in Cincy, we were getting loud and the Bengals and their fans (what few were there) were ready to pack it in and chalk up another loss. So I'd really be curious to see how much venom you would have for Zorn if he took this team to 10-6 and the playoffs in his FIRST YEAR ever as a HC at any level.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Campbell= Not a WCO QB. Give him one more year, then let him go if you don't see him getting it.
Portis = Superstar RBs don't win championships. Cheap backs and RB platoons do (see Giants 2008, Colts 2007, Steelers 2006, Pats 2005 and 04)
Receivers = Pedestrian. Moss is a nice 2 nowadays, not a 1, and the rest of the WR core would be lucky to make some rosters.
O-line = Why don't we draft o lineman?
D-line = Why don't we draft d lineman?
Linebackers = Why do we draft linebackers with bad knees?
Secondary = Why do we invest so much in the positions of last resort on defense?

Philosophy....do we have one? What is the plan? Our management and front office is a joke.

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Vinny/Snyder are the top reasons the redskins suck...all other conversations are borderline pointless....

Posted by: chrislarry

This is the one I meant to paste, not the other one.

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

Bring in the TUNA...he's a proven turnaround
winner !!

Posted by: dl51 | December 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm not in favor of firing Zorn UNLESS someone like Bill Cowher or some other competent coach wants to come here. I think that forcing Campblell to learn a new system again sets up the team for more failure.

I'm willing to see how the 2009 season goes. If Zorn can't go up to 10-6 or 11-5 and get a wild card spot then I agree that it may be time to fire him.

I also agree with people who blame Cerrato and Snyder. They are the core of the problem, though hardly the only problem.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 9:20 PM | Report abuse

I am now a Ravens fan. Thanks to Danny & Vinny for that. I gave up my season tickets and will not buy any more team merchandise. I just can't take it any longer, I tried to stick with this team but the never ending stupid move after stupid move the last ten years can no longer be ignored.

Posted by: jjed56 | December 28, 2008 9:04 PM | Report abuse

this is the worst thing i've ever read. Go look up "loyalty" in the dictionary and don't let the door hit you on the way out, pal. Skins don't need sellouts like you.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

"Do you agree that the bigger problem is not our general (Zorn), it's the Commander in Chief and his inept SecDef? If so, I just can't understand all the anti-Zornism.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG "

You are missing the glaring connection between the two. Jim Zorn was the personal choice of the "Commander in chief and his inept SecDef". They are not independent. If Zorn fails, then Cerrato fails. If Cerrato has failed, chances are that Zorn has failed as well. The choice of Jim Zorn is by FAR the biggest impact that Cerrato has had on this franchise.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm not in favor of firing Zorn UNLESS someone like Bill Cowher or some other competent coach wants to come here. I think that forcing Campblell to learn a new system again sets up the team for more failure.

I'm willing to see how the 2009 season goes. If Zorn can't go up to 10-6 or 11-5 and get a wild card spot then I agree that it may be time to fire him.

I also agree with people who blame Cerrato and Snyder. They are the core of the problem, though hardly the only problem.
Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 9:20 PM |

Perfectly said ..couldn't agree more ........get the TUNA

Posted by: dl51 | December 28, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

I'am curious why is Cowher always the solution? It took him many years to win a Super Bowl in Pitts. Everyone wants to fire Zorn after an 8-8 finish in his first year. How long would Cowher get to succeed?
As for firing Zorn fine. However who is going to replace him? Why would anyone coach the Redskins knowing the current coach finished 8-8 and was only given one year, especially with all the other vacancies that are sure to be available. I guess they might be able to pick up one of the coaches that are fired this year. Maybe Crennel?

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 28, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Can someone explain to me how a team that we held to 3 points last Sunday could beat the Cowboys by almost 40 points?

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Our so-called playmakers continue to let us down. Portis' fumble leads to a TD. Moss drop pass kills a drive. Not today, but throughout the season, Cooley drops at least one pass to stall a drive...or worse fumbles
the ball.

Posted by: abrockway | December 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Lisa shall I explain quantum physics and the nature of God to you as well. String theory?

Who knows....the world is a sick joke....

(can you tell I lost both my fantasy football championships today?)

Posted by: chrislarry | December 28, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Lifelongfan--I agree with you. I'm not on the "Fire Zorn" bandwagon. I think that he should have another year. If he takes the team back next year and they end up 6-10, they should consider replacing him.

I wouldn't want Romeo Crennel coaching the Redskins. That would be a step back.

Posted by: jiacinto | December 28, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Moss had two key drops today.

Posted by: columbiard | December 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn should be the coach next year for sure, but I also find it mystifying that he didn't play Kelly, Thomas (more), and Davis in a meaningless game that they wound up losing anyway.

Decisions like that make me question just how "smart" he actually is.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

i love the B&G as much as anyone, 40 years rooting for them, but i'm glad that they lost today... parcells went to a team that was 1-15 last year, and they are in the playoffs now... FIRE VINNY, AND PUT DANNY BOY UNDER HOUSE ARREST!!!

Posted by: isthatyourhusband | December 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

YOU PEOPLE CRYING FOR COWER ARE SILLY!!!!!
Dick Lebeau runs that team...... THE ONLY REASON COWHER IS IN QUESTION IS B/C HE WORKED FOR AN OWNERSHIP TEAM WHO DIDN"T WANT TO CHANGE LEADERSHIP!!!!! ALLEN'S 2nd YEAR,... Super Bowl.... GIBBS 2nd YEAR Super Bowl..... ZORN 2nd YEAR....????

CLEGG

PS - Please, someone that knows football, please comment on the Cowher hire!!!! ENUFF!

CLEGG, CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 28, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

nd your statement that he would've NEVER hired Zorn? That is completely ludicrous and by your own admission, quite clearly impossible to prove and hence not even worth discussing.

This isn't ludicrous at all. JZ was the QB coach of a team that knew it's hc was leaving after the upcoming season and he was not in the team's plans for a promotion. Only the Snyder Skins would hire a guy whose current employer (in a city where he is beloved) had no confidence to give him the OC position and who was not on anyone else's radar.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 28, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

So I'd really be curious to see how much venom you would have for Zorn if he took this team to 10-6 and the playoffs in his FIRST YEAR ever as a HC at any level.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:18 PM | Report abuse

That's the problem. This was a playoff team last year. So why would you bring in a guy and make him a HC when he's never been more than a QB coach. And it wasn't like Zorn was their choice all along. He was the scapegoat for the circus they ran in hiring a HC. So while its not totally Zorn's fault for the horrible offenive showings, the fact that he hasn't changed anything to remedy this is definitely his fault. What happened to getting some wildcat formations, flea-flickers, something! He's done none of that, he's still running some rudimentary offense that doesn't believe in going down the field.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 28, 2008 9:36 PM | Report abuse

"Do you agree that the bigger problem is not our general (Zorn), it's the Commander in Chief and his inept SecDef? If so, I just can't understand all the anti-Zornism.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG "

You are missing the glaring connection between the two. Jim Zorn was the personal choice of the "Commander in chief and his inept SecDef". They are not independent. If Zorn fails, then Cerrato fails. If Cerrato has failed, chances are that Zorn has failed as well. The choice of Jim Zorn is by FAR the biggest impact that Cerrato has had on this franchise.

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Thanks psp. I might be occasionally blinded by my love for this team, but I am not so myopic as to not understand your very obvious and very basic stated fact that their is indeed a Zorn-Cerrato connection...OK he hired him. And your point is? How does that contradict what I wrote? I realize that those two donkeys hired him. I think it will turn out to be a good choice...IF, IF, IF we start to draft better and regard F/A as a means to compliment the draft, not a chance to assemble the Who's Who of NFL Has Beens.

You give a guy two seasons or you don't bring him in at all.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

meanwhile teams like the eagles with the worst record against other nfc east teams at 2-4 made the playoffs, the dolphins with the worst record a year ago made it, the falcons who were left for dead after the whole vick debacle made it, and the skins nearly a decade into the danny boy label are still dealing with the same issues since he took over the team, no offense, holes on the O line and the D line, weak outside linebackers, no punters, and no kickers, and most of all, still no pass rush.
zorn may end up being a good coach later on, but unless my cousin is still swindling the rich boy, this franchise ain't going nowhere.
the best thing that could have happened to the skins this year is them not making the playoffs. if we had managed to somehow sneak in like we did last year, management would surely think things were ok and would once again deny the real issues of this team.

Posted by: JeanJak | December 28, 2008 9:37 PM | Report abuse

LMG,

Smart comment as usual!!!!! You're Xactly correct in your assumptions....

SKINS with ZORN are a better team next year than a switch!!!!

Moss makes a catch and Kendall drops one ( Rams game ) and the Skins are in the playoffs...

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | December 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Matt Cassel?

Posted by: ljmarto1 | December 28, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

We're just spittin in the wind, friends. Time will tell about Zorn. All I'm saying is he deserves another year. Or perhaps you'd like to start over AGAIN and make JC learn a 9th offense in as many years. Yea, that'll do loads for his development.

Fire Vinny. Give Parcells $10 million/yr and full control (if he really is exploring options). Draft linemen. Sign Peppers.

There it is. I just solved all our problems. Man I'm good.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm with you Clegg...just posted that same thought on needing continuity. Warped minds think alike??

Funny how people make it sound like we're the Browns, the Lions, the Bengals. I guess we got spoiled in our younger years....we'll get there, thanks to Gibbs 2.0's managerial moves (Portis, JC, Moss, Cooley, Fletch, Landry, etc) and my plan to have some govt agents lobotomize Vinny and Danny

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Matt Cassel? Kid's got it, no doubt. But that money is better spent on a stud 1st round OT and perhaps a Peppers/Haynesworth, IMHO. JC is still our future, I really believe so. He did everything he could today to win this game. D let us down, as did Moss/Portis.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 28, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

"Thanks psp. I might be occasionally blinded by my love for this team, but I am not so myopic as to not understand your very obvious and very basic stated fact that their is indeed a Zorn-Cerrato connection...OK he hired him. And your point is? How does that contradict what I wrote? I realize that those two donkeys hired him. I think it will turn out to be a good choice...IF, IF, IF we start to draft better and regard F/A as a means to compliment the draft, not a chance to assemble the Who's Who of NFL Has Beens.

You give a guy two seasons or you don't bring him in at all.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG"

You're obviously not getting it. Either that or you're purposefully ignoring the very basic question that I've been posing for the last hour on this blog.

Either you've given blind faith to Zorn by saying "you can't judge based on one year", or you've seen something that makes you say "he's going to be a good coach".

If it's the blind faith aspect, then it's not worth arguing, because that blind faith is based on the hiring of a no-credential guy hand-picked by one of the most inept front offices in the NFL.

So again, I ask what have you seen from Zorn that tells you that he will be a good head coach in the future - taking into account his main impacts on the team (meaning the offense)? What makes you think, given the talent level this team has (which is actualy high, despite whatever complaints you have) that this team has a bright future under the tutelage of Jim Zorn?

Posted by: psps23 | December 28, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

JLC, I truly hate you. You are a pathetic writer and fail to realize that every word you "blog" is read by real Skins fans. I think the Skins finished about where they should have been expected to finish this season. However, your team IS your team, and you support them no matter what. You clearly aren't a Skins Fan. May you fall into a lard induced coma and die, you fat bastard....

Please DO NOT come back next season....

Posted by: thebobbyjoeearl | December 28, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

For me the jury is still out on Zorn because I have no way of telling if the problem is the coaching or the players. If the players are average and your record is average does that reflect poorly on the coaching? Is there more the coach could have done to get more out of the players? Remember this was also a learning experience for the coach.
If Zorn is back the two things I hope he learned from this year is don't be as conservative and allow JC to take risks. I saw JC back to throw deep several times today and each time he either checked down, ran or got sacked. Every now and then you just need to let it fly and give your players a chance to make a play, if it gets intercepted just hope your defense can hold.

Posted by: lifelongfan | December 28, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

No coach could have done better with the players that Zorn had this year, i.e., an aging offensive line that could not give Campbell the time to throw downfield, no true second wide receiver after Moss, no athletic or explosive outside linebackers, no explosive or athletic defensive lineman that can get after the quarterback. This season was blown the moment the skins decided to use all three of the second round picks on receivers that did not produce instead of fulfilling the other needs for this roster and that is the fault of management!

Posted by: Portcity1 | December 28, 2008 10:26 PM | Report abuse

FIRST AND FOREMOST, FIRE VINNY CERRATO...THE MOST INEPT PERSONNEL MANAGER THIS FRANCHISE EVER HAD. BUT THEN AGAIN, THE DANNY IS SO IN LOVE WITH HIM!!! ..AND THAT'S THE PROBLEMO..

SOLUTION: FANS STOP YOUR SUPPORT TO THIS FRANCHISE...AS THEY ARE ONLY IN FOR YOUR MONEY AND NOT THE WINNINGS ....

ONCE THIS FRANCHISE GOES IN THE RED...THE DANNY WILL SELL IT ..AND THEN WE CAN START SEEING THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL

Posted by: benjaesh | December 28, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Dear Santa,

The Redskins still suck. I asked for offense and a home play-off game.

When will it be our year. The venom and losing and hate spreads all around.

Coal would be better than all the losing.

Posted by: DownTownClown | December 28, 2008 11:07 PM | Report abuse

Glad the skins lost. The Niners have hired a coach that can lead them into the future. We have a coach that looked like he wants to cry and needs a hug after a game. Worse we have a "GM" who was terrible in SF and has been even worse in Washington. Everyone who was/is a true skins fan should do everything in their power to get Dan to sell the team or FIRE VINNY. NOTHING WILL GET BETTER WITH THOSE GUYS AT THE TOP.

What a JOKE!

JMH
Skins Fan
1966-2008

Posted by: chargersix | December 28, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse

SOLUTION: FANS STOP YOUR SUPPORT TO THIS FRANCHISE...AS THEY ARE ONLY IN FOR YOUR MONEY AND NOT THE WINNINGS ....

ONCE THIS FRANCHISE GOES IN THE RED...THE DANNY WILL SELL IT ..AND THEN WE CAN START SEEING THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL

===========================================
DING, DING, DING, DING....WE HAVE A WINNER!

It's all about money folks! 8-8, 9-7 gets it done.

Posted by: kone | December 29, 2008 7:12 AM | Report abuse

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