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Redskins' Top Story Lines Entering 2009

We've gone through a ton of position battles in the last few weeks, and I think we've covered most of the ground. What was missed?

The defensive line, where Andre Carter, Cornelius Griffin, Albert Haynesworth and Phillip Daniels are likely starting, backed up by Renaldo Wynn, Brian Orakpo on third downs, Lorenzo Alexander, Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery.

Other guys in the mix for a roster spot include Rob Jackson, Alex Buzbee and Antonio Dixon, among others, but for the most part the roles along the line are pretty well defined.

Safety is set, with LaRon Landry and Chris Horton the hands down starters and Reed Doughty and Kareem Moore backing up. Lendy Holmes was mentioned a few times in OTAs and is worth keeping an eye on in preseason, along with practice squad holdover Michael Grant.

Chris Cooley is a Pro Bowl tight end, and Fred Davis is another of those 2008 second-round pass catchers who must be more involved in Year Two. Behind them is Todd Yoder, with Robert Agnone looking to beat out the veteran for a roster spot.

Now having gone through most of the roster and looked at competitions for different spots, the next question I had was: What will be the major story lines for the Redskins entering this season?

Some that immediately come to mind include:

The health of the offensive line -- The second-half collapse last season came in part because an aging O-line was hit by injury and struggled late. Will the Redskins avoid the trouble this season? Going along with that, how much will the lack of action this offseason at right tackle come back to haunt the Redskins?

Campbell, wide receivers and the offense -- Jason Campbell's year is going to be one of the biggest story lines of 2009 for so many reasons, from his tumultuous offseason to the fact there are heavy expectations for him to make a major leap. But Campbell's success also will hinge on the development of a true No. 2 wide receiver, be it Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas, Roydell Williams or someone else, not to mention the five guys we talked about above. And Jim Zorn's offense in Year Two is under just as much scrutiny as Campbell, especially with big name coaches looking to get back into the game in 2010.

Portis vs. Zorn -- In June it already made headlines. June! Last season Portis hit the airwaves to criticize the first-year coach. And you'd be naive to think the team's star running back and Zorn are best buddies. So will this friction continue to play out in 2009? What impact will it have if it does?

Strong-side linebacker -- Maybe Brian Orakpo at SAM turns into a success, but I still lean toward the idea of wanting my first-round defensive end to . . . play defensive end. Surely teams will go after this position early on with different looks and matchups, and though the Redskins defense continues to be able to mix and match players and hide weaknesses, it's definitely worth watching.

Albert Haynesworth -- He signed a record contract during free agency, and his career probably will be remembered for what he does from here on out. It starts from Day One in Washington, with fans and prognosticators around the country watching to see how the star defensive tackle will do after securing such a big paycheck.

Other thoughts?

By Paul Tenorio  |  July 2, 2009; 1:59 PM ET
 | Tags: Albert Haynesworth, Alex Buzbee, Andre Carter, Anthony Montgomery, Antonio Dixon, Brian Orakpo, Chris Cooley, Chris Horton, Clinton Portis, Cornelius Griffin, Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Jason Campbell, Jim Zorn, Kareem Moore, Kedric Golston, LaRon Landry, Lendy Holmes, Lorenzo Alexander, Malcolm Kelly, Michael Grant, Phillip Daniels, Reed Doughty, Renaldo Wynn, Rob Jackson, Robert Agnone, Roydell Williams, Todd Yoder  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Position Battles: O-Line Depth
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Comments

Foist

Posted by: Stu27 | July 2, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/washington-post-sells-out/ethics/

In all seriousness, I wonder what the WaPo could have charged for Jasno's services if he was still around. Over/under $2.50 anyone...

Posted by: will_ga | July 2, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Obviously for the Skins in 09 Cambell will be the biggest story, the O-line and WR will have their chapters in this story. Has management set up Cambell to fail with a lack of offensive support in these position. Vinny maintains that they have done plenty with Dockery, Williams, Bridges and last years draft pick.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 2, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Another story to watch is how Rikc holds up as the Sourcerer's Apprentice...

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 2, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Samson001:
In case your mentally challenged, let me break it down for you in the last thread I was saying the defense will be ineffective late in games(like last year) because they were on the field too long because the offense couldn't sustain drives.Does that make sense to you?

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The Real storyline should be getting Prop 8 passed in the District so Danny and Vinny can get it over with.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Story line #1: How does the OL play? Every offense-oriented story line revolves around this.

Story line #2: Will the defense be good or will it be elite?

Story line #3: Injuries, how well do we deal with the inevitable?

Story line #4: Will character issues play a role in 2009?

My pick for a longshot story line: Robert Henson among league's top rookies

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

The offense will be the main story line.

Will the line be able to play at a high level ALL year, will there be improvement at WR?

The answers to those questions will help define how Jason Campbell does.

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

72redkins: "I agree with you zcrest, those teams are year in and year out in the hunt for the Lombardi trophy because they put an EMPHASIS on DRAFTING and DEVELOPING bluechip O/D lines."

Yeah, but you're also the guy who says 'Case Closed'. You have to prove your point first. I would argue that despite his admirable attempts, zcezce hasn't done it for you.

Posted by: Samson151 |

fwiw, I'm not pushing points as much as making observations on what the data says. In biz, its called a benchmark -- look at what the guys who are best in the biz are doing.

I wasn't my original intent to look at other teams, that was a suggestion. I didn't know what the data would show. When I did, it showed that except for special teams and DBs, the GOF followed the 'balanced draft' approach. Also noteworthy, the GOF were much more alike in their approaches than they were different. The Skins approach was significantly different from the GOF.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

However I should acknowledge that most fanz don't operate on simple risk-reward, they're considering a whole bunch of other factors when they decide what the team needs and who they should draft in what round. Most of the posters here put offensive tackle at the number one need position. Personally, I would selected a pass rusher. When they signed Albert, I thought they might then go for a right tackle, but they went for a pass-rushing DE.
I guess they thought he was a better prospect than Oher.
Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2009 2:57 PM

Samson, well thought out post above. Sounds reasonable to me, but the cynic in me thinks that the Danny heard the phrase that Orakpo was a “tweener in the mold of Demarcus Ware” and then his eyes got all big and he didn’t listen to any other scouting reports and ordered vinny to do whatever it takes to draft the guy….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | July 2, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

17th!!

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Some of you just don't get it.

The Redskins will be so good, they'll win last year's Super Bowl.

Jason Campbell's revelatory regular season will end in the first ever double overtime win.

Clinton Portis will be the first player to score 2 TDs on one carry.

Mike Williams will force the creation of a new offensive statistic: the crepe.

The Redskins defense will play every down 10 yards off the LOS just to give the opposing team a fighting chance.

Goodell will be so impressed, he'll award Snyder the AFC title just out of principle.

It's all good.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

How about special teams? Is Suisham's job a slam dunk and what does Hunter Smith bring to the table? Will ARE still return punts this year or is there someone more capable ready to step up? What about Cartwright's job? Will one of these "micro-rocket" running backs take his job from him?

And since you brought it up, what about Clinton Portis? Are his edgy comments about the offensive line, the coach, about preseason, about dog-fighting - are these comments that promote or hinder team unity? Dallas flushed their superstar with an attitude: could Washington ever be put in the situation where they would do the same? What's Clinton's position on a possible scat back on the roster stealing carries from him?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 2, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Samson001:
In case your mentally challenged, let me break it down for you in the last thread I was saying the defense will be ineffective late in games(like last year) because they were on the field too long because the offense couldn't sustain drives.Does that make sense to you?

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I thought this as well, until I went to NFL.com to see the overall time of Possession. I was surprised to find out that we actually had an overall advantage in the time of possession. However, it is broken down by the entire year. I am going to see if I can find a good way to compare to time of possession for the 1st 8 games vs the last 8.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Repost previous thread:

I think coaching--or lack thereof--the O-line up is a big deal.

I once argued for our O-line by saying Clinton Portis is CONSISTENLY putting up HOF numbers behind them. If Clinton is not a HOFamer, as many here believe, than that is even more a testament to our O-line, not to mention Betts produced 1000yds in what 10-12gms?

O-line haters postulated that run-blocking and pass-blocking are separate entities--enter Buges. He needs to coach up their pass-blocking, b/c God forbid Jason Campbell has anything to do with it..(Campbell's first pass attempt, he rolls outta a perfect pocket, sack Tuck, right???) And we need to find a #2 WR!

Sorry, I'm not trying to make this about Campbell, but some QBs get sacked behind any line, i.e. Dave Carr, Patrick Ramsey, Leftwitch. Some QB's are mediocre behind GREAT O-lines, i.e. Vikings, Panthers, Titans(VY).

Hell even the video game ratings say we're the 8th ranked O-line unit. While I don't agree with that, I'd say our O-line (and QB) is overall average; CERTAINLY NOT BAD BY ANY MEASURE!

Injuries might happen. Injuries might not happen. I just know that If Campbell sucks this year, bloggers will blame the O-line and possibly WRs. If Campbell lights it up this year, bloggers will credit Campbell and possibly Zorn.

Uh oh, looks like a lose-lose situation for our O-line.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Rumor has it Eli might be the first 50 million dollar man.

How much money was guaranteed to Matt Stafford? I'm willing to bet his stack of poker chips could rival Prince Albert's.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Ok, about the time of possession, and if you dont like the results do get em yourself.

In the 1st 8 games we had roughly 40 min more time of possession.

The last 8, we had roughly 6-7 minutes more time of possession.

The win over Seattle makes the total misleading. We had the ball 17 minutes longer in that game. Without that game, the last 8 games would have been in the Negative.

Even worse, with a having the ball for literally more than an entire quarter more than Seattle, we only won by a field goal.

Do with this what you will. trash it if you must, it was something that had been bothering me for awhile and I have seen the claims of us losing the time of possession battle.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I just know that If Campbell sucks this year, bloggers will blame the O-line and possibly WRs. If Campbell lights it up this year, bloggers will credit Campbell and possibly Zorn.

Uh oh, looks like a lose-lose situation for our O-line.

Posted by: Vicc

More than a few grains of truth in that comment.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Are we in a better position than last year? Well, I think you can make a decent case that we are moving in the right direction, which is something I don't think could be honestly said the last few years.

We needed to get younger as a team, and with Springs, Washington, Taylor, Kendall and Jansen let go... that's over 20% turnover in expected starters right there.

We needed to beef up our front seven on defense (not the worst need, but it helps). While I was initially against the Albert Haynesworth signing, it turns out the contract is pretty much all smoke and mirrors, so coupled with Orakpo, we have a pretty flexible and potentially stout front 7:

I'll go out on a limb and say that our base package will be:

Carter, Haynesworth, Daniels, Orakpo, Mongomery, Fletcher, and C. Wilson. Thats actually a nice mix of potential, beefcake, and experience when you think about it.

The defensive secondary will be fine as long as the injury bug doesnt bite, and it looks like Barnes could be a future starter.

I would say hands down our Defense is better. I would also say our offensive line is better poised to survive an entire season, save the LT position. I'll take one weakness over 3, however. Give us a legitimate #2 WR, and a season where a season where Betts and Portis aren't injured at the same time, and we might get somewhere.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Paul,

I generally don't comment as you know, however you seem to have overlooked Chris Wilson. At times in the past couple of years, he has shown great pass rushing ability, recording sacks at important times. In fact, if a revamped pass rush is what the team is searching for, he would be better to have on the roster than Wynn. I know he is attempting to switch to Strong Side linebacker, which is another story line to watch in camp. I am a fan of his and think he has the speed to help the pass rush, but the team doesn't seem as convinced. What are you getting out of Redskin's park on his development at LB or his possible continued role as a speed rushing DE? Will he even make it through training camp as a Redskin?

Posted by: laxpro95 | July 2, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

How about the schedule...I hate the fact that our tougher games come in the 2nd half of the season. Again.

So like last year, we'll probably start off strong, but us Redskin fans will still be uneasy and that sucks to not know your identity/team the first half of the season.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Paul,

Haynesworth played a lot of end on passing downs for Tennessee. He lacks the discipline and it would be a waste of talent to use him as a lane stopper tackle on passing downs. So .... he's at one end, Carter's at the other? Don't you think?

Dude, layoff the Orapko at end. He can't stop the run as well as Carter so he isn't going there. Even in college he had this problem. He can't rush the passer better than Haynesworth, so he isn't going there. Period.

Orapko is a linebacker who will blitz/rush beside Haynesworth on most passing downs until he picks up the coverage skills. That had darned well better produce a lot of pressure and sacks.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

My number one back story for the team.

Will Vinny Mortgage the future again and triad a draft pick for a vet at the first sign of injury?

Another story:
How will TheRon and Hortonhearsapick work together with a whole season under their belt together?

Posted by: alex35332 | July 2, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"I'll go out on a limb and say that our base package will be:

Carter, Haynesworth, Daniels, Orakpo, Mongomery, Fletcher, and C. Wilson. Thats actually a nice mix of potential, beefcake, and experience when you think about it."

I think you've left the limb and entered the twigs. Six out of our front 7 will be career linemen? And our second best one, the glue that kept the line from becoming molasses the last few years, won't be part of it?

That's quite a bold statement, but sadly, I don't see it unfolding that way. McIntosh will be there as will Griffin. The only question is whether or not Orakpo will get the base LB spot or not. My money is on RMac moving to SLB and Blades stepping in at WLB, with Orakpo rotating at end. Blache isn't a bold guy. He'll go with what he knows works.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"Carter, Haynesworth, Daniels, Orakpo, Mongomery, Fletcher, and C. Wilson. Thats actually a nice mix of potential, beefcake, and experience when you think about it."

Watch out for Robert Thomas. I am sure they would not be unhappy if he beat Rocky Mac out since he is in is contract year.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: laxpro95 | July 2, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I am going to tell you Chris, that if you want to play a bigger role, you shouldnt post as a lax pro. That wont get you far if that is your rep.

I like Chris Wilson, I hope when he gets in, he does contribute and bring some energy to the field.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

@gatorskinz2000

If you break it down by wins/losses, it works like this:

Wins TOP Avg: 34:33
Loss TOP Avg: 28:27

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Vicc,

You don't measure O-line success by the number of sacks on Campbell. You would measure it on the success (or lack thereof) of the running game, their ability to move the chains consistently, and their effectiveness inside the 20. In other words TDs on the ground.

This is a west coast offense. Limiting sacks and picking up blitzes will be important, but it really does involve short passes to set up the run plus play action.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse


Do you think Buges is capable of coaching that style or is he too old school smash mouth.

I'd say after he retires, let's hire a O-line coach who's familiar with west coast pass-blocking schemes, but I doubt Zorn will be here for long.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Ha! I'm not too worried about my virtual "rep." I also don't live in my mother's basement, so I guess I don't see from your perspective.

Posted by: laxpro95 | July 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

And because we lack a receiving red zone threat, teams will continue to stack up against our run inside the 20. And that stinks!

C'mon Kelly or Fred Davis(he's 6'4" right?)

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

"I'll go out on a limb and say that our base package will be:

Carter, Haynesworth, Daniels, Orakpo, Mongomery, Fletcher, and C. Wilson. Thats actually a nice mix of potential, beefcake, and experience when you think about it."

I think you've left the limb and entered the twigs. Six out of our front 7 will be career linemen? And our second best one, the glue that kept the line from becoming molasses the last few years, won't be part of it?
------------------------------------

I meant McIntosh, not Montgomery. Brain Fart. Anyway, Rocky, Fletcher, n Chris Wilson/Orakpo at the LB position. Maybe this Robert Thomas guy, but thats down to 5 career linemen, and I'm relating what I read about C. Wilsons progress as a LB, not how I like it.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Everyones wrong but me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: alex35332 | July 2, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@gatorskinz2000

If you break it down by wins/losses, it works like this:

Wins TOP Avg: 34:33
Loss TOP Avg: 28:27

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I was going to do it like that, but I wanted to see how the TOP, shifted from the 1st 8 games vs the last 8 games. Based on the prevailing thought that it was the last 8 games where our O-line fell apart, which should have changed our TOP.

Looking at it as just Wins vs Losses doesnt really tell the story I was trying to see.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

the only time ARE is effective as a #2 receiver is when we run a gimmick play.

He still has a gun, even on the run.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Ha! I'm not too worried about my virtual "rep." I also don't live in my mother's basement, so I guess I don't see from your perspective.

Posted by: laxpro95 | July 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Good, because I dont live in your mothers basement either. Although I am sure she keeps it very clean. I am at work bored out of my mind because everyone is on vacation.

I do like Chris Wilson, seriously. I think he can contribute as a role player, I just think he has to many people ahead of him to be a started.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I meant McIntosh, not Montgomery. Brain Fart. Anyway, Rocky, Fletcher, n Chris Wilson/Orakpo at the LB position. Maybe this Robert Thomas guy, but thats down to 5 career linemen, and I'm relating what I read about C. Wilsons progress as a LB, not how I like it.

Posted by: mattsoundworld

Ah I see, that makes more sense.

Posted by: psps23 | July 2, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Or a starter for that matter.

He seems like a high motor guy, and we need players like that.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

And because we lack a receiving red zone threat, teams will continue to stack up against our run inside the 20. And that stinks!

C'mon Kelly or Fred Davis(he's 6'4" right?)

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse
------------------------------------

Thats why I wasnt as opposed to the Fred Davis pick as some around here were. WE ALREADY HAVE A PRO BOW TE! Wrong. We have a Pro Bowl HB.

Thomas looks like he's pretty built, so even though he's not particularly tall, he should be able to fight for the ball better than the other lightweights can.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I was going to do it like that, but I wanted to see how the TOP, shifted from the 1st 8 games vs the last 8 games. Based on the prevailing thought that it was the last 8 games where our O-line fell apart, which should have changed our TOP.

Looking at it as just Wins vs Losses doesnt really tell the story I was trying to see.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse
-----------------------------------

Was just saving you the calculation since it came up.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Was just saving you the calculation since it came up.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I appreciate it. There was the argument the past few days that the Defense was on the field too long and it was a cause for our losses.

I would love to go even further with the data, but not sure where to get it.
I would like to see the 4th quarter stats on TOP. I think might be more interesting to see.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I would love to go even further with the data, but not sure where to get it.
I would like to see the 4th quarter stats on TOP. I think might be more interesting to see.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse
------------------------------------]

Its pretty labor intensive, but you can find that on NFL.com>Washington Redskins>2008 Regular Season Schedule>Final (of the game you want to see)> Drive Chart

Sometimes the last drive spills over, so you have to subtract the start time from the drive time and carry over. Its a pain in the neck. But doable.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

gatorskinz2000,

I like Chris Wilson too. I vote our starters play a total of 4 qtrs this Preseason, and the backups(all rookies included) play the rest of the Preseason.

Majority on the issue of successful journalism voted that field experience is worth more than classroom experience. I vote the same for learning to play football within a professional scheme.

Posted by: Vicc | July 2, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: mattsoundworld | July 2, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Thats what I did for the TOP per game. I didnt realize they had the 4th quarter as well. I did feel that in the 4th quarter, it seemed that the D was on the field longer than the Offense.

Another stat that would be good to see is the amount of 3 and outs in the 4th quarter.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 2, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

72redskins: "Why couldn't they have drafted the Oher kid who is with Baltimore?"

Well, they obviously could have. But chose not to. As did 22 other teams. So the question should be: given the massive hype around this player, why did all those teams pass?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2009 2:57 PM |

One problem with Oher is that he has a learning disability. So it becomes a question of how many reps are needed for him to understand what to do when a certain play is called. This apparently scared some teams away. If Baltimore has a veteran RT who is functional this could mean that the Ravens would have the time they need to work Oher into the mix. Don't think the Skins were in a postion to take on a OL "project"

Posted by: FrancoBegbie | July 2, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse


Everyones wrong but me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: alex35332

I believe you're mistaken.

Posted by: TheCork | July 2, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I just want to see a more dynamic, exciting offense, throw the ball down the field, be able to score in the red zone and not have to try and kick so many field goals, and when the money quarter comes around keep the other team from getting the ball and close out the deal like we use to back in the day.

As one person remarked to me last year he said watching Skin's games, "was boring".
He's right, the way the offense fumbled and bumbled and started and stuttered was about as fun and exciting to watch as a cinderblock.

I know defense wins championships and all that, but fans still want to be entertained and see some big plays on offense, or at least be able to put up 21 points a game.

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Oher has a learning disability?

Okay, here's what I'd do:

This play is a running play, the guy in front of you, try your best to knock him on his azz!!

This play is a passing play, don't let the guy in front of you or anybody else get to your quarterback!! LOL

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

O-line, O-line, O-line.

Original, I ain't.

One of the key starters will go down either for a long period or short term - and the critical question is whether they can cover for the loss.

Short answer: not with this group.

They'll need to pickup another veteran somewhere. Waiver wire or trade.

Even a healthy line at this stage with the age and condition they're in, is going to be overwhelmed by a topflight athletic d-line.

Posted by: SteveMG | July 2, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

mattsoundworld -- though I'm not on that limb with you on the personnel, I think your analysis is good. I like the observation abut the line being better able to survive the season ... not necessarily more talented.

As for the defense being hands down better. Yes. But I do think we'll miss Springs and Evans. Better defense? Yes. A lot better? Depends in the LBs.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure we've all been watching NFL network's airing of 'America's Game' episodes on the 88 and 92 Super Bowls. As I keep saying, 'Skins had great players, a great coach, a trusting owner, and great o-lines (and a decent d-line). While they played with such integrity, intelligence, and heart, there were at 2 HOF players, a HOF coach and maybe 1-2 more HOF players (Grimm, Jacoby).

If the o-line stays healthy and 1-2 young lineman have breakout years, JC's numbers will be Pro-Bowl competitive, and the team will compete throughout the year. Rypien, Doug Williams, and Joe Thiesman were not HOF players (although had Williams been with Gibbs from 1981 on, he would have been), but they played behind GREAT O-LINES, and their numbers showed it. I'll keep blaming Snyderrato for thinking it was a system issue vs. a PLAYER ISSUE: 'Skins haven't had the players to compete, specifically along the o-line, which is SYDERRATO'S FAULT.

Vinnie ain't Bobby Bethard; hell he ain't even Charlie Casserly

Posted by: pdfordiii | July 2, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

My 1st pass on the OL's durability. What are the odds that we'll make it thru the season with one guy at each position?

RT -- 60%. Heyer has had durability issues. Williams is a longshot and I don't know about Bridges.

RG -- 40%. Randy Thomas rarely makes it thru a season healthy. At 33, time is not his friend.

C -- 80%. Rabach has been the most durable starter.

LG -- 80%. Dockery has also been a durable guy

LT -- 70%. Samuels is tough as nails, but he gets pretty dinged up against the talent he plays against -- mostly 1 on 1.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Oher has a learning disability?

Okay, here's what I'd do:

This play is a running play, the guy in front of you, try your best to knock him on his azz!!

This play is a passing play, don't let the guy in front of you or anybody else get to your quarterback!! LOL

Posted by: 72Redskins

Reminds me of a story that Jerry Kramer told in one of his books. Said he had a concussion during a game and had no clue what was going on. So he turned to his teammate and asked, "What do I do?" loud enough for the DL to hear him. His teammate pointed to a guy on the defense and said, "Block him".

Sometimes, its just that simple

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

nice post cork.. dead on.. Its weird since Snyder knows his Redskins history and what happened when they drafted two OL guys in the 1st round in 81.. Grimm and May.. et al the beginning of the Hogs..
You build from the lines, out. Good GM;s know this.
Maybe the inequity of 200 Mil to the Defense this year and zero to the Offense (Dockerty was waived) is Danny's way of taking the poison pill till 2010 when he can hire Shanahan. Shanahan would want to form the Offense his way with all the Draft picks in tact. ummmm this may be giving Danny too much credit..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I look forward to the day (Bugel) retires and the Skins can upgrade the OL coach position. Not to diminish what the dude has done previous.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | July 1, 2009 7:40 PM |

Bag--

You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken Shiite, and that's what has been provided to Bugel the last few years.

While Vinny panders to every wish the defense wants, and Dan insists on name "skill" players, the Oline is the MOST neglected position on the team.

Yet, the guy you look forward to being done with managed to put together a formidable Oline of oldies, retreds, bum-knees, and one tackle who pass blocks, one who run blocks and the team got off to a 6-2 start.

When the wheels fell off due to the old age and ongoing neglect afforded the Oline, sure enough it fell apart.

Have you seen any other Oline coach snap up Geissinger? Has Kendall caught on anywhere?

And it's more of the same this year. Retreds, fat guys and other team's problems. Meanwhile, they again pander to the defense, adding a 100 million dollar man, overpay for Hall and draft a DE and DB with their top two picks.

The trouble isn't the guy asked to coach up that bunch, it's the management which doesn't get him good players to coach up.

Sheesh.

Posted by: TheCork | July 2, 2009 1:31 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | July 2, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Oher has a learning disability?

Okay, here's what I'd do:

This play is a running play, the guy in front of you, try your best to knock him on his azz!!

This play is a passing play, don't let the guy in front of you or anybody else get to your quarterback!! LOL

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 2, 2009 5:18 PM |
Reminds me of a story that Jerry Kramer told in one of his books. Said he had a concussion during a game and had no clue what was going on. So he turned to his teammate and asked, "What do I do?" loud enough for the DL to hear him. His teammate pointed to a guy on the defense and said, "Block him".

Sometimes, its just that simple

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 6:07 PM |

lmao! 2 lamo posts!

Posted by: FrancoBegbie | July 2, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | July 2, 2009 6:27 PM |

Dude - the Skins don't need a GM - you need a new userid! Read the most excellent post below from the Bang man!

Most of the Draft Gurus feel like he got a steal.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | June 27, 2009 9:24 PM

He didn't just get a steal. He cleverly engineered it. He suckered the Jests into thinking that the Skins were going to trade up to get Cleveland's pick in order to corral Sanchez. The Jests bit and arranged their own deal with Cleveland in order to have Sanchez for themselves. Cleveland was going to use their pick on Orakpo but instead he slid to 13 where the Skins were more than happy to grab him. Brilliant behind the scenes maneuvering by Vinny. There ain't many GMs in the NFL who could do what he did.

Posted by: BangerVance | June 27, 2009 10:08 PM |

Posted by: FrancoBegbie | July 2, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad that Paul brought up the Orakpo situation at SAM. I think you're putting a square peg in a round hole on this one. He plays Carter's position and will be the full time man there next season after Carter is released. Putting him at LB (he weighs 265 lbs) can't be a good idea with Witten and Boss exposing him this year in space. Zorn keeps talking about him only being there on 1st and 2nd down, but teams will pass on those downs too!!! Especially the Iggles. This will be a major mistake by week 4.

Posted by: rich20ssu | July 2, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

I'm glad that Paul brought up the Orakpo situation at SAM. I think you're putting a square peg in a round hole on this one. He plays Carter's position and will be the full time man there next season after Carter is released. Putting him at LB (he weighs 265 lbs) can't be a good idea with Witten and Boss exposing him this year in space. Zorn keeps talking about him only being there on 1st and 2nd down, but teams will pass on those downs too!!! Especially the Iggles. This will be a major mistake by week 4.

Posted by: rich20ssu

Witten weighs 262, Boss 253. Orakpo ran a 4.63 40, so he's got good speed.

Orakpo does remind me of Andre Carter. Thing is, Carter was a better LB than DE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Best Possible Story Line:

Mike Williams gets playing time, and wins the NFL Comeback Player of the Year Award.


Worst Possible Story Line:

A low scoring offense and stellar defense exist in a fractured, finger-pointing locker room.


Breakout Player(s):

Kedric Golston--defense

Devin Thomas--offense


Best Special Teamer:

Hunter Smith


Most Interesting AFC West Matchup(s):

Nov. 15 Broncos v. Redskins

Jan. 3: Chargers v. Redskins

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Mista -- I'm with you on Golston. He was pretty good last year and playing next to Albert, he'll get plenty of one-on-one matchups.

On the OL, I'm at least as worried about RG as I am RT. And there is plenty to worry about at RT.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Nice post on 10 most important Redskins for this season

http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/07/nfl-top-10-most-valuable-washington-redskins.html

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 2, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

The Story that Will Never Die:

Report: Broncos taking Marshall calls
NFL reporter Adam Schefter tweeted that the Broncos will take calls on disgruntled wide receiver Brandon Marshall.

"Though Denver does not want to trade Brandon Marshall, it will take calls. Won't make them, but will take them." Schefter wrote on his Twitter account.

Schefter believes it will take a first-round pick to get Marshall.

This report comes a day after a local TV station reported that Marshall had ripped the city of Denver when he was arrested for suspicion of DUI in 2007.

"I hate Denver. I hope I get traded. I hate this [expletive] city," Marshall told the arresting cops.

Before that the Broncos claimed they would not try and trade Marshall despite the receiver's hope to be shipped out of town.


I say burn the 1st round pick and get the guy.

It's a no brainer, and Moe has no brains.

Marshall is 6'4", 230 poinds and caught 104 balls last year.

Can you say upgrade?

And please don't put me to sleep with, "The chemistry in the lockerroom, blah, blah, balh, and character is important, blah, blah, blah,..." when guys see that the heretofore highly criticized MeAngelo Hall has fit into the redskin way rather well.

Think of this lineup:

Marshall-Cooley-Moss

Who gets covered?

And any team trying to cover them will take a man out of the box, thus freely opening up the running game.

Let's get a new Marshall in town.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

"Samson001:
In case your mentally challenged, let me break it down for you in the last thread I was saying the defense will be ineffective late in games(like last year) because they were on the field too long because the offense couldn't sustain drives.Does that make sense to you?Posted by: 72Redskins"

You should have said that, then, instead of what you actually wrote, which was:
"the Defense aren't going to be worth a dam in the 4th quarter after they've been on the field all day due to our inept, 3 and out, redzone challenged offense. Case Closed."

See, there are two problems with the above. First, the Skins offense, while it didn't score much, did a pretty good job at controlling the ball. Some evidence:

Washington had a significant advantage over opponents in 1st downs(295 to 259); in rushing yards (2095 to 1526); in rushing attempts and average per carry (478, 4.4 to 396, 3.8), and most importantly, in time of possession (31:30 to 28:29). Where they fell down was in TDs and in FGs over 40 yards, which kept opponents in games that should have been long over. And as somebody on this blog pointed out, they actually did pretty well once they got in the red zone, and struggled more to score from farther out.

The defense, on the other hand, was terrific at containing the opponent, but not at pressuring the QB or at getting an advantage in turnovers. Which is why (ego aside) they signed Haynesworth and Hall and drafted Orakpo.

So you see, the case wasn't closed. You just thought it was.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

Periculum sez Moe should find a replacement left tackle in case Samuels doesn't make it all the way back. Wide receiver? They have plenty and them some. They've already burned enough picks on the position.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

People need to stop with the Orapko at DE. Clearly that is almost certainly Blache's plan for him from the get-go. It was definitely NOT Danny's, nor Vinny's, nor even Zorn's.

Its the defensive coaching staff's plan. Let them work with him and the rest of the talent they have to see what works and what doesn't. They've been very successful more times than not.

Unlike the offense. Which needs help on its line a great deal more at this point. One would think.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Today's lesson:

Forget receivers. Find OL, especially tackles. Save the draft picks for next year. Next year's 1st choice should be a running back unless they lose Campbell.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Nice post on 10 most important Redskins for this season

http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/07/nfl-top-10-most-valuable-washington-redskins.html

Posted by: noone_from_tampa

I agree with several of the names on that list. But the order is wrong, by a lot.

Plus, the difference between Carlos Rogers and Nnamdi is not simply that Nnamdi can make the pick and Carlos can't. This guy is smoking something.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Peri

"...find a replacement left tackle in case Samuels doesn't make it all the way back."

Aaaaaah: this post really exposes a roster weakness.

Granted, bringing in Marshall from Denver would be reckless, but so is not drafting a young tackle to back up amuels is as well.

In the event of Samuels' possible injury, you have to think the team would move Heyer to left tackle, and start Bridges at rt: this is not a great situation to be in.

I love the Orakpo draft selection like the next fan.

But for the life of me, I don't get why the team couldn't make the move to get a tackle prospect in the later on the draft (or pursue, say, Tra Thomas in free agency).

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

Like violence?

Like movies with a lot of killin', shootin', and dudes gettin' blown away?

Like movies where a fine azzed woman does what she's told?

Like movies without cgi?

Go see "Public Enemies"

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 8:14 PM | Report abuse

trying out the Firefox v3.5 browser, not all that thrilled with IE8. I do like the spell check feature within Firefox. Can't type so it's nice to see the red underlines under the typos

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 2, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

Melvin Purvis was a bad a$$, J. Edgar's personal hitman. Committed suicide just like Frank Nitti

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 2, 2009 8:22 PM | Report abuse

"I wasn't my original intent to look at other teams, that was a suggestion. I didn't know what the data would show. When I did, it showed that except for special teams and DBs, the GOF followed the 'balanced draft' approach. Also noteworthy, the GOF were much more alike in their approaches than they were different. The Skins approach was significantly different from the GOF.Posted by: zcezcest1"

Oh, no, I'm not objecting to what you said -- just pointing that it suggests rather than proves the point. Still haven't dealt with the FA issue: if a team signs FAs on the line, then why would they also draft them? Despite the insistence on best player available, we all know teams actually draft for need, especially in the lower rounds. It's also important to prove your point that we look at the league as a whole, not just cherry-pick certain teams.

All that aside, I'm a fan of drafting diverse positions. Just makes more sense, in the same way that diversifying a portfolio helps limit losses.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I want to see one of the young DE's make a leap. Buzzbee or Jackson comes up and elbows out Wynn or Daniels. That would be a story.

I want to see one of the scat backs make the team as both a scat back and a punt returner.

I want to see Marcus Mason stick. I'm not sure how that is possible with a scat back and Cartwright on the roster, but I remember all too well the embarassing signing of Shaun Alexander last year.

I want to see Orakpo work out at linebacker. Having a thumper like that playing off the line of scrimmage will make a back think twice about coming his way.

I want to see Barnes steal the nickel back spot and I want to see Smoot shut up and work like heck to win it back.

As long as I am dreaming here, I would like to see Vinny Cerrato blow up at the Dan on the sidelines and the Dan fire him on national television. Then I'd like to see him hire a real GM.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 2, 2009 8:25 PM | Report abuse

red

"I want to see Barnes steal the nickel back spot and I want to see Smoot shut up and work like heck to win it back."

I can see that happening, too.

Nothing against Smoot, btw.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 8:31 PM | Report abuse

gator: "Even worse, with a having the ball for literally more than an entire quarter more than Seattle, we only won by a field goal."

The Seattle victory reflects the Skins' problem putting the ball in the end zone. I think I actually referred to that, along with the difficulty Suisham had converting FGs over 40 yards. Both of those are serious problems that could dog us this year. If you were to ask me why the Skins couldn't score TDs, I'd guess it's because they lacked the Plax Burress or Larry Fitgerald type of receiver -- which is why they drafted Malcolm Kelly. But that's only a theory. In part, it reflects Jason Campbell's habit of throwing a relatively flat pass -- he needs the tall receiver to get up over the DB and make the catch.

As for the Time of Possession argument, that's valid, although I'd make two observations. First, that you'd expect TOP to be down in games your team lost (which makes the Seattle game an anomaly). There was a lot more losing in the second half of the season. Second, the margin isn't great enough to justify (IMO) using exhaustion as the reason for the defense's failure to get TOs or pressure on the QB -- which was 72redskins' explanation. besides, that was a problem that dogged them early, too.

Going back to the Seattle game, you couldn't explain that loss in any way, shape or form in terms of a tired defense. Same thing with San Francisco or Cincinnati. The Skins got dominated by Baltimore and I guess you could say they were dominated for at least the second half by Pittsburgh. Otherwise they were in most games.

The real problem I see going into the season is the unknown -- the area where injuries hit that nobody has bothered to prepare for.


Posted by: Samson151 | July 2, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

But for the life of me, I don't get why the team couldn't make the move to get a tackle prospect in the later on the draft (or pursue, say, Tra Thomas in free agency).

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009

Noting that Philadelphia made two such moves designed to fill both tackle spots. And did burn high draft picks to do it.

Its almost as if Danny and Vinny want the offense to collapse ... the sooner the better.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Philly started revamping their line after we signed Albert. I think they were worried about seeing a reverse of the "Body Bag" game.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 2, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Missed field goals will be the biggest story this year. Zorn's offense will be about the same as last year but the defense will keep most games close. Suischem is gonna lose about 4 games this year. There's your story.

Posted by: coparker5 | July 2, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Vinny won't trade for Marshall because that will represent him admitting taking those two clowns in the second round was a mistake.

Posted by: rich20ssu | July 2, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa

"...Philly started revamping their line after we signed Albert."

The iggles also let go of B Dawkins, LJ Shelton, Jon Ruynon, Tra Thomas, and traded a wide receiver.

Their personnel people have a great knack for knowing when it's time to re-sign or let go of a player on the downside.

Prince Al isn't what motivated them: they know you have to get younger, faster, and more athletic while remaining in a strong sal cap position.

They don't mortgaged the future to get some other team's old guys.

They went into the draft and added a bog running back, a speed guy, an athletic tight end, and special teamers.

The iggles are thinking ahead or, given where they finished last season, they are thinking Super Bowl.

Remember: but for Kurt Warner's comeback, the Super Bowl would've been iggles v. stillers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa

"...Philly started revamping their line after we signed Albert."

The iggles also let go of B Dawkins, LJ Shelton, Jon Ruynon, Tra Thomas, and traded a wide receiver.

Their personnel people have a great knack for knowing when it's time to re-sign or let go of a player on the downside.

Prince Al isn't what motivated them: they know you have to get younger, faster, and more athletic while remaining in a strong sal cap position.

They don't mortgaged the future to get some other team's old guys.

They went into the draft and added a bog running back, a speed guy, an athletic tight end, and special teamers.

The iggles are thinking ahead or, given where they finished last season, they are thinking Super Bowl.

Remember: but for Kurt Warner's comeback, the Super Bowl would've been iggles v. stillers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

For all them smart azzes that think the OL is fount of all the Skins' offensive woes, riddle me this - how is it that they were able to go 6-2 at the start of 2008 with a OL that included Kendall and Jansen, released after 2008 to be replaced since with better players; Heyer, still around and with a year more of learning and experience under his belt; and everyone else on that OL back for 2009?

Posted by: MrPink | July 2, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

It's also important to prove your point that we look at the league as a whole, not just cherry-pick certain teams.

Posted by: Samson151

The suggestion was to compare us to Pats -- ie, a successful franchise. I expanded it to look at the 4 most successful franchises. Again, I'm not trying to prove a point, just interpreting to what the data is saying. And the data says that the most successful teams take a balanced approach to the draft.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 9:23 PM |

MistaMoe's posts = jibba jabba

jibba jabba - noun: A long-winded dialogue full of bullsh*t and rhetoric.

Posted by: MrPink | July 2, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

how is it that they were able to go 6-2 at the start of 2008 with a OL that included Kendall and Jansen,

And 2-6 in the second half as the line wore down and they played the Steelers and Ravens.

If you can guarantee that the line will be fully healthy (or near fully so) for 16 games, you've got a point.

But they're getting old and worn down and another year of tread on the tires isn't helping.

Posted by: SteveMG | July 2, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

For all them smart azzes that think the OL is fount of all the Skins' offensive woes, riddle me this - how is it that they were able to go 6-2 at the start of 2008 with a OL that included Kendall and Jansen, released after 2008 to be replaced since with better players; Heyer, still around and with a year more of learning and experience under his belt; and everyone else on that OL back for 2009?

Posted by: MrPink

In 2008, it was not the capability, it was the durability. The OL broke down.

In terms of what 2009 looks like compared to 2008.

Dockery didn't play better than Kendall, but you'd have to think Dockery is likely to be more durable than a guy who is 36.

Its not clear that we'll have a more talent at RT than Jansen. After all, Jansen kept the RT job when Heyer got dinged.

Samuels and Thomas are both capable if healthy, but they are both on the down slope and their durability is an issue.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 2, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

mr.pink

"MistaMoe's posts = jibba jabba:long-winded dialogue full of bullsh*t and rhetoric."

Thanks for the compliment, sir.

And I see you've taken a name--Mr. Pink--that reminds me of the color of the insides of our wife's mouth.

That is, if you have a woman.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

riddle me this - how is it that they were able to go 6-2 at the start of 2008 with a OL that included Kendall and Jansen, released after 2008 to be replaced since with better players; Heyer, still around and with a year more of learning and experience under his belt; and everyone else on that OL back for 2009?

Posted by: MrPink | July 2, 2009

Mr. Pink? I think zcezcest1 hit it. Its about age and durability. Noting that the iggles who got A LOT FURTHER and almost all the way (as someone previously mentioned) let Tra Thomas and Runyon go. Then promptly replaced them with guys who are better and a lot at younger at this point in their respective careers.

2 Linemen suffered debilitating, career threatening injuries: Samuels and Thomas. For Thomas this isn't his first time. Jensen's achilles injury a few years back had turned him into a snowplow who was a terrible pass blocker. Pete Kendall probably was their best offensive lineman after Samuels. But they let him go given what they were already seeing with 30+ linemen. The inability to go 16 games and/or 60 minutes a game. Heyer was the only youngster and even he seems to have suffered injury after injury making one question his longevity.

Posted by: periculum | July 2, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

Listen folks,Orakpo's not ready to play end full time in the NFL.Mario Williams is a perfect example,its taken him three years to mature into the role.Meanwhile,during his maturation process he can make some noise in the linebacking corps.Blache knows what he is doing,glad he's on my team.

Posted by: mark65 | July 2, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Colt Brennan Says He'll "Play A Ton" In The Preseason
Posted by Mike Florio on July 2, 2009 11:44 PM
Redskins quarterback Colt Brennan, extensively hyped as a college senior at Hawaii before plunging to round six in 2008 due to a poor Sugar Bowl performance and subsequent hip surgery, occupies a spot on the depth chart behind starter Jason Campbell.

And with the Redskins trying -- and failing -- to land Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez in the offseason, it's generally accepted that the last year of Campbell's rookie contract could be his last year in D.C.

So Brennan realizes he has an opportunity to stake his claim to the job, and he arguably hinted during a Thursday night appearance on Sporting News Radio's The Monty Show that the team could be preparing him to play at some point in 2009.

"I gotta step in this year," Brennan said. "They've already made it clear that they're going to play me a ton in the pre-season and we gotta play four very talented teams and talented defenses and that's going to be my test."

But while Brennan remains diplomatic, his between-the-lines message is clear: Campbell could soon be out, and Brennan would like a chance to replace him.

"Right now it seems like it's in everyone's hands," Brennan said. "For Jason Campbell it's his last year, it's in his hands to go out and earn that second contract and earn that for him. And for me in the preseason it's my chance to go out there for the second year and prove that I belong and have a great preseason and show that I belong and maybe could be a starter one day."

Here's the reality, as we see it. With coach Jim Zorn widely believed to be on the hot seat, Campbell likely will be on a short leash. If Zorn had actual job security, the trigger for using Brennan would be the point at which the Redskins fall, as a practical matter, out of the race for a playoff berth. As it stands, we think Zorn will be inclined to yank Campbell early in the season, if it appears that the team isn't heading toward a postseason appearance.

Before Zorn can know whether it'll be a good idea to give Brennan a shot, Zorn needs to know whether Brennan can play at the NFL level.

And that's why he'll get so much work during the preseason.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Posted by: Curzon417 | July 3, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

I'm frankly giddy over this defense's potential.I am certain we will lose a starter somewhere during training camp,which tempers my excitement,but still, come on, they will be nasty.This offense must see the opportunity in front of them and seize the day!Just acheive average and we're in the playoffs.

Posted by: mark65 | July 3, 2009 12:25 AM | Report abuse

It's stressfull and full of peaks and valleys being a redskin fan,but damn me if it ain't intersting.I wouldnt trade my experiences as a fan of this team for any.The drama entering 09' is second to none in the league,the plot thickens with each day that passes.Will Campbell meet the fans expectations and earn his contract?Will Zorn prove his meddle in the brutal NFC East and continue his tenure?If Zorn fails,who is the frontrunner to replace him?Will Cerrato's 08' draft be a complete bust?I could go on and on.I love it!

Posted by: mark65 | July 3, 2009 12:47 AM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, this is about how far the Redskins can go.

If thye get into the post-season I will send $100 check to the "Danny Snyder Home for Wayward Brats".

Our FO is so messed up that it will be years before we can dream of SB glory.

Posted by: oldnova | July 3, 2009 2:11 AM | Report abuse

"Listen folks,Orakpo's not ready to play end full time in the NFL.Mario Williams is a perfect example,its taken him three years to mature into the role.Meanwhile,during his maturation process he can make some noise in the linebacking corps.Blache knows what he is doing,glad he's on my team.Posted by: mark65"

Blache is a smart guy, but Mario Williams was drafted to be a three-down lineman in a different sort of defensive alignment. He's 3 inches taller and thirty pounds heavier than Orakpo, and his role depends on stopping the run as well as rushing the passer. It does take some defensive linemen as much as three years to develop, but Orakpo could be a situational pass rusher long before then.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2009 6:02 AM | Report abuse

"The suggestion was to compare us to Pats -- ie, a successful franchise. I expanded it to look at the 4 most successful franchises. Again, I'm not trying to prove a point, just interpreting to what the data is saying. And the data says that the most successful teams take a balanced approach to the draft.Posted by: zcezcest1"

Again, it's not a criticism -- just pointing out some flaws in the methodology that could affect the interpretation of that set of data.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2009 6:06 AM | Report abuse

"Vinnie ain't Bobby Bethard; hell he ain't even Charlie CasserlyPosted by: pdfordiii"

I don't know how Vinny rates, but Beathard was a figure of controversy almost from the start (the trading away of first rounders) and Casserly should get full credit for that replacement team season. I guess you could say Beathard was a boom-bust sort of GM. For instance, he drafted Ryan Leaf -- which suggests maybe it was good he traded away all those #1 choices when he was in Washington. Casserly was something of a maven with free agency, a process that was far more restrictive during that era. If the team had depth, it was probably Charley's achievement.

Both of them got fired, right? Or as they say in the NFL, 'left to pursue other interests'.

Vinny exists in a different era, with far different rules. Difficult to compare him to his predecessors. Be more accurate to compare Cerrato's record with the Skins with Casserly's record in Houston.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2009 6:12 AM | Report abuse

It's stressfull and full of peaks and valleys being a redskin fan,but damn me if it ain't intersting.I wouldnt trade my experiences as a fan of this team for any.The drama entering 09' is second to none in the league,the plot thickens with each day that passes...

Posted by: mark65 | July 3, 2009 12:47 AM

I'd share your enthusiasm if we hit more peaks than valleys. This team has had precious little to be happy about for over 17 years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 3, 2009 6:20 AM | Report abuse

Before Zorn can know whether it'll be a good idea to give Brennan a shot, Zorn needs to know whether Brennan can play at the NFL level.

And that's why he'll get so much work during the preseason.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Posted by: Curzon417 | July 3, 2009 12:17 AM


So, Florio thinks that Colt Brennan will get a lot of work in the preseason. Shocker. With two QBs ahead of him both in the final year of their contracts, does is take a genius to figure out that Brennan has to produce in preseason?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 3, 2009 6:40 AM | Report abuse

From PFT:

"Here's the reality, as we see it. With coach Jim Zorn widely believed to be on the hot seat, Campbell likely will be on a short leash. If Zorn had actual job security, the trigger for using Brennan would be the point at which the Redskins fall, as a practical matter, out of the race for a playoff berth. As it stands, we think Zorn will be inclined to yank Campbell early in the season, if it appears that the team isn't heading toward a postseason appearance.

Before Zorn can know whether it'll be a good idea to give Brennan a shot, Zorn needs to know whether Brennan can play at the NFL level.

And that's why he'll get so much work during the preseason."


If that's the case, Zorn should already be fired.

Campbell is the kind of QB that has to have weapons to throw to and a solid ground game to succeed. He's not going to win games by himself for you, but he won't lose them for you either. When I see Colt Brennan out there with this crappy line and average arsenal of weapons, I see an array of pick 6s for the opponents. NO THANKS to Colt Brennan.

I'll all for giving him time in the preseason. But he's not likely to get a lot of run with the 1st team, which defeats the purpose. I can see it now...folks up here giving Colt the Mason treatment--getting boners over him putting up numbers against 3rd stringers and street FAs and showing nothing against NFL quality starters.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 3, 2009 6:43 AM | Report abuse

Wall Street Journal runs the story today that the Washington Post is trying to peddle access to its reporters and Obama administration officials:

"The Washington Post was caught up in a controversy Thursday when a political-news outlet revealed that the newspaper promoted private sessions where lobbyists could meet with Obama administration officials and reporters and editors from the Post in exchange for payments of $25,000 to $250,000."

So how much would folks up here pay to have dinner with Michael Wilbon, Vinny Cerrato, and Dan Snyder at the home of Post publisher Katharine Weymouth?

For me, it would depend on the quality of the menu and the beer (none of that Bud Lite stuff that Nate favors) and wine (no Chilean swill), but I'd go at least $40, and maybe as high as $75 (lobster, please). I might pay $85 if Cindy Boren would be there, too.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 3, 2009 6:58 AM | Report abuse

The drama entering 09' is second to none in the league,the plot thickens with each day that passes.

Mark 65, may I suggest soap operas? I prefer winning....

Oh and Mario Williams may have taken three seasons to mature but take a look at season 2 stats....I will take that....

And Samson your read on Beathard has apologist written all over it.....who would defend a proven loser like Cerrato over a proven WINNER like Beatherd (with 2 franchises) is straight Snyder era apologist speak......how well did trading 1st rounders work for Skins...oh yeah 3 Superbowls....

You are correct that different era comparrisons are dumb....but Beathard was THE MAN! and any arguement to the contrary is tard....

Posted by: chrislarry | July 3, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

For me, it would depend on the quality of the menu and the beer (none of that Bud Lite stuff that Nate favors) and wine (no Chilean swill), but I'd go at least $40, and maybe as high as $75 (lobster, please). I might pay $85 if Cindy Boren would be there, too.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 3, 2009 6:58 AM

I might go $100 if Cindy wears that slinky little black Vera Wang number...

:)

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 3, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

I can't figure out why you put Fred Davis ahead of Todd Yoder as Cooley's BU and second TE. Davis hasn't done squat and Yoder is a proven TE. IMO!

Posted by: ho-skin | July 3, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

"Redskins' Top Story Lines Entering 2009"


A storyline not discussed is what might be the circumstances or parameters for Jason Campbell being 'shown the money.'

Does he get re-signed in the event of injury behind a failing offensive line?

If Portis or Moss goes down, and no other 'offensive threat' (a term used loosely with this team) steps up, will it all be seen as a failure on his part to win games with his arm?

Does he get re-signed if the blocking holds, but the receiving corp continues to under impress?

Does he get re-signed if his numbers are middling, but the team makes the playoffs?

And in the reverse case, if his numbers are decent, but the team fils to make the playoffs, does he get re-signed?

Again: all signs point to Jason having a decent year, but not being re-signed.

Well, at least we'll have the first round pick in 2010 to select his replacement.

Sam Bradford (or Colt) anyone?

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 3, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Well, at least we'll have the first round pick in 2010 to select his replacement.

Sam Bradford (or Colt) anyone?


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 3, 2009 10:21 AM

It's a lock the Skins take Bradford next year. Expect to see a Campbell-esque trade of multiple picks to move up to get him, too. Then he'll be mediocre behind a mediocre line and--you guessed it--mediocre receivers (Moss ain't getting any younger). Then they'll chase him out of town for whoever is the flavor of the month come 2013.

*Sigh*

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 3, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

The top 10 MVP on the skins entering this year according to nfl outsider's

http://mvn.com/outsider/2009/07/nfl-top-10-most-valuable-washington-redskins.html

I think I've done an okay job bouncing around the league and trying to diagnose each team's ten most valuable players with regards to the 2009 NFL season. These are opinion pieces, of course, and admittedly, I've been much more concerned with getting the ten most valuable players on each team on the list rather than getting them in the right order.

Today, of course, I go from outsider to insider (relatively speaking) as we hand pick the 10 most valuable Redskins at NFL Outsider.

10. WR Santana Moss
If the Redskins are a great team come January, Santana Moss will either be much, much higher than this, or no longer in consideration for this list. Moss hit 1,000 yards receiving for the first time since his all-pro 2005 season, but he did it mostly in a four game stretch in September and October, and against the Lions defense. He was nowhere to be found in the second half of the year, be it on deep passes or really anywhere else. It's probably too much for the Redskins to ask him to be a No. 1 at this point, but he'll at least get the opportunity until either Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly can make a play for the go-to receiver role.

9. S LaRon Landry
Landry's value is much more tied up in who he is, than what he has done. He's got a phenomenal set of skills by which he may use to become one of the great safeties in the game. But teams who have thrown in to his zone have managed to enjoy relative successes in the passing game. Landry is not a great tackler, but as the incredibly young Redskins secondary develops, it will allow the coaching staff to use more of his god given talent (blitzing and coverage range) more often, and give Landry a shot at being a pro bowl level player.

8. DE Andre Carter
Though this seat is certainly being kept warm for Brian Orakpo, Carter is the guy who most immediately benefits from having Albert Haynesworth on the roster. Last season, Carter had a very disproportional amount of pass pressure to his sack total (a *team leading* 4 sacks). This year, with Haynesworth occupying blockers on the interior, Carter's one-on-one situations should be a lot more productive in terms of converting those near sacks into both hits on quarterback and sacks.

...

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

7. OT Chris Samuels
Last year, Samuels would have been the No. 1 guy on this list, as he was a top five offensive tackle in his prime, with no real extensive injury history, on a team that could not afford to send extra blockers to the left. When narratives are written about the 2008 Redskins, and why this 6-2 team through November finished up 2-6, you tend to get names like how Jason Campbell's play declined, or how Jim Zorn failed to adjust to teams adjusting to...NO! Here's your narrative:

In Week 6, the Redskins were 4-1 with four quality victories facing the 0-4 Rams when Samuels hurt his knee and had to miss a series. This series ended with a strip-sack of Jason Campbell from the left (Samuels') side, a recovered fumble by a Guard, who was then stripped of the ball and it was returned for a game-deciding TD. Samuels played the rest of the season with limited mobility in his knee, limited effectiveness, until Week 14, when a 7-5 Redskins team was trying to comeback against the Baltimore Ravens, and Samuels suffered a torn tricep, effectively ending the Redskins season. That's a narrative.

As for why Samuels is down here after arguably being the most valuable Redskin last year: that injury history casts doubt over his long term viability at the position. It's as simple as that.

6. LB London Fletcher
The team's universally elected defensive MVP from a year ago did not go to the pro bowl...again. London Fletcher is one of the five or six best linebackers of his generation. He's behind Brian Urlacher, and Derrick Brooks, and Ray Lewis, and maaaybe Zach Thomas, but I'd take him and Keith Bulluck over anyone else in the game who enjoyed their prime years from 1996-2007. He still has excellent sideline-sideline range, and he's still an absolute tackling machine, but where Fletcher is most underrated is his ability to make plays in coverage. The Redskins are simply a better defensive team when he's on the field. Of course, now that he's 34, expecting another 16 start season is getting a little unrealistic, which kept him out of the top five.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse


5. TE Chris Cooley
Cooley set a personal and team record for receptions last year, and he did it all with a fluky low amount of touchdowns: 1. That number should rebound this year to, say, 6 or 7 (fantasy advice is free in NFL T10 columns, if you can find it). Cooley is not just one of the five best TEs in football, he's an excellent football player. He's got a stigma as a player who isn't a great blocker, but his absolute man-handling of the otherwise stout DeMarcus Ware at Dallas in Week 4 suggests that 1) either Ware is a horrible run defender, or 2) Cooley is a much better blocker than anyone wants to give him credit for. Maybe it is a little of both.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

. QB Jason Campbell
For all that has been written in weak justification of the shameful off-season mishandling of their own QB position, I offer just one well-informed opinion as not to rehash the entire Campbell situation: from the first half of the season to the second half of the season, Jason Campbell was the one player on the Redskins offense who actually improved at his craft. This is borne out mostly in rushing statistics, how even with no help from the ten guys around him, the quarterback revitalized the rushing game by adding 20+ yd runs from the QB to the barren arsenal of the Redskins offense.

Jason Campbell is the very least of the Redskins worries on offense.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

3. RB Clinton Portis
If Campbell is the least of the Redskins offensive worries (i.e. most dependable player), Portis is the very best player on the Redskins offense. Off the field, Portis is somewhat of a likable character who doesn't always use his popularity for the right causes. On the field, he's an elite pass blocker, who runs with excellent field vision and hits holes hard even when they are hardly there. The Redskins brought Portis in along with Joe Gibbs in 2004 because they thought he could add the big play element to the offense. That hasn't happened. Portis's first carry with the team, a 62 yard TD vs. Tampa Bay, remains his longest. His second longest came in the third quarter of the season opener in 2005, a 42 yard scamper against the Bears. Since then, Portis is exclusively a 25 yard burst guy who pretty much always gets tackled by the safety.

This only makes his consistent 1,200+ yard production even more remarkable, since it's not a total inflated by doing a lot of open field running behind the defense. Portis very much has earned every yard he has totaled with the Redskins, and 2009 will be the year that we see if Portis will be chasing Emmitt Smith for the NFL all-time rushing leader, or if he simply begins his slow slide from superstar into NFL obscurity.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

2. CB Carlos Rogers
The most skilled player on the Redskins defense is cornerback Carlos Rogers. It's inevitable that by bringing in embattled CB DeAngelo Hall, Rogers is not going to be making a lot of headlines in this upcoming season, but that might actually help him. There has been no doubt about Rogers' skills as a shut down corner. He spent most of the first half of last year playing man-to-man coverage against players like Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, Torry Holt, and Braylon Edwards, and basically making them look like NFL training camp scrubs. He struggled a little bit with those bigger, more physical receivers in the second half of the year, such as Calvin Johnson, and Chris Henry of Cincinnati, but over the second half of the year, interceptions started to come his way.

You see, the knock on Rogers--the last thing he must prove before he becomes a shutdown corner--is that he can catch the ball after making a break on it. If Rogers turns into a 4-5 INT/year guy, instead of the 2-3 guy he currently is because of drops, he's essentially a five day older version of Nnamdi Asomugha. If he continues to drop passes, he'll always be known as one of the 25 best corners in the current NFL, but not more than that because CBs never feared him.

And if he does turn into an Asomugha clone, well, that didn't exactly work out great for D-Hall the first time around.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

1. DT Albert Haynesworth
Rare is the player who can be considered a "two-win" guy. Two win guys are known in football stats circles as the rare talents in the league who are consistently worth two wins over an average player in their place at their position. Usually, these players are either quarterbacks or MVP candidates from other positions, such as James Harrison of the Steelers. And, I mean, these guys don't ever hit the market, at least not without baggage (Brees' labrum injury). But when Haynesworth did become a free agent, the Redskins snatched him up to the tune of 41 million dollars guaranteed over the next three years (the theoretical remainder of Haynesworth's prime seasons). Now the team just needs him to play like he has in Tennessee the last two years, as the best player his position has seen in over a decade.

There's a lot of risk in the Albert Haynesworth contract, a lot of money that isn't refundable no matter what Haynesworth does. But the Redskins did their research on him and concluded that he was a good investment off the field. Haynesworth isn't replacing an average player in Anthony Montgomery, who produced at an above average level more often than not. But Monty was bad in space, and with Haynesworth, the Redskins feel that he closes the margin between NFL pretender and NFL contender quite quickly. That's the number one reason why no one else on the team can be the No. 1 most valuable player on the Washington Redskins.

Posted by: TWISI | July 3, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

TWISI,
Thanks for the player analysis. Definitely some potentially great players on D.

Posted by: ga8085 | July 3, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Samson000

As I said Case Closed, irregardless of that bullsh&t your talking. If our offense doesn't improve, score more points and sustain drives then the defense(with our new and current talent talent)won't be as effective as they can be.CASE CLOSED, and I KNOW it is. Now go light some fireworks and stuff a hot dog in your mouth. Happy 4th!!

Posted by: 72Redskins | July 3, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

TWISI, read that post when you put it up here the 1st time. The guy is wrong a lot. Carlos Rogers, if he catches his INTs, is Nnamdi (who is another Darrell Green)? I don't think so.

Moss at #10? If he gets injured, what does our WR corp look like? ARE, a marginal #2, becomes our #1 WR!! Moss is #1

Fletcher is the defensive signal caller in addition to being among the best MLBs in the league. Without him, we are considerably weaker. Fletcher is #2.

Samuels is #3. He'll be expected to handle osi and ware, 1 on 1, with no help. There is no one behind him that can do his job.

For me, its Moss, Fletcher, Samuels, Albert at 1, 2, 3, 4. Why Albert at #4? He only plays about 50% of the snaps, while the top 3 play almost every snap.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 3, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

"And Samson your read on Beathard has apologist written all over it.....who would defend a proven loser like Cerrato over a proven WINNER like Beatherd (with 2 franchises) is straight Snyder era apologist speak......how well did trading 1st rounders work for Skins...oh yeah 3 Superbowls....you are correct that different era comparrisons are dumb....but Beathard was THE MAN! and any arguement to the contrary is tard...."

Didn't say Beathard was inferior GM -- in fact, just pointed out he was a figure of some controversy here in DC. Trading away those top draft choices. You better win if you're going to do that, right? And his teams did.

But he was a gambler from the word go. Casserly wasn't -- very much more the high-percentage guy. His one big risk was the Mario Williams pick, which was initially judged something of a bust, but now seems to be a big success.

Like I said, I wouldn't know how to compare Vinny to those guys. I'm sure somebody around here will be more than glad to explain it to me.

Posted by: chrislarry

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Samson000

As I said Case Closed, irregardless of that bullsh&t your talking. If our offense doesn't improve, score more points and sustain drives then the defense(with our new and current talent talent)won't be as effective as they can be.CASE CLOSED, and I KNOW it is. Now go light some fireworks and stuff a hot dog in your mouth. Happy 4th!!Posted by: 72Redskins"

I think I'll let this speak for itself.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 3, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Top story will be the July trade for Boldin or Marshall after Kelly blows out his knee in training camp. If we get Marshall then Shanahan follows in 2010.

Posted by: coparker5 | July 3, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

yes fwroy it bothers me when PT speaks for all of us, saying WE are disappointed is Rinehart. Some of us have REASONABLE expectations and recognize the possibility of a mediocre player. Some fans think if a player isn't great out of the gate then he is a bust.........that's ridiculous.

PT also said recently that the fans weren't confident in Campbell, which pissed me off. HEY PAUL TENARIO STOP SAYING WE ARE DISAPPOINTED, IF YOU WANT TO SAY YOU ARE FINE, BUT DON'T SPEAK FOR US YOU PRICK

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 4, 2009 3:09 PM

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 4, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I AM CONFIDENT IN CAMPBELL

I AM NOT DISAPPOINTED IN LAST YEARS DRAFT

I AM NOT ALONE

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 4, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

1. Go dirtbags! The line struggled late last year, this year Campbell will be better, Betts will be better, the offensive scheme will be better, Thomas, Davis, and or Kelly will be better. This will make the OL SEEM better.

2. Campbell will be better in his first season coming back to the same offensive scheme. We don't even need a #2 WR, if 11, 12, & 86 COMBINE for the stats of a MEDIOCRE WR that will make a significant impact. The O will also benefit from increased turnovers.

3. Portis vs. Zorn, they don't have to be friends. Zorn & the fans need to focus on what Portis does between the whistles and ignore his off field comments. Portis isn't a criminal, so deal with his ego, because he walks the walk.

4. SAM LB, Blades played well last year. Worst case scenario Blades is solid. Orakpo is probably better than Blades due to athletic gifts. Other WCS Mac plays SSLB and Blades, Orakpo, Thomas, Glenn, Henson battle for WSLB.

5. Haynesworth, it might take a couple games up to half a season to really utilize this guy in OUR scheme. IMO, we won't rank as high on D but we will get more turnovers and sacks, and more wins because of it.

other thoughts:

6. Giants - How will they fare without Spags coordinating the D and the loss of Plaxico & Ward

7. Eagles - lost Jim Johnson, Dawkins, Consadine. How will ther e D fare?

8. Cowgirls - No T.O., no Canty. What is there OL average age?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | July 4, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Best possible story line: Cody Glenn wins the Pulitzer prize

Worst possible story line: Mike Williams sacks Dan Marino for his Optifast

Posted by: ElYeah | July 5, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

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