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Posted at 6:07 AM ET, 12/23/2010

Statistical analysis: How the o-line stacks up

By Brian Burke
Statistical analysis

There is no question where the Redskins need to start rebuilding for next season. It's clearly the offensive line, and pass blocking in particular. Measuring line play with statistics is tricky, so before we look at just where the Redskins' line stacks up statistically, let's look at how line stats are determined.

The offensive line's job is, of course, defensive. Lineman protect the quarterback or the rusher from tacklers. Unlike other positions, an offensive lineman's performance on any given play is marked by the absence of things, such as sacks and stuffs. At the core, the offensive line's job is to prevent the defensive line, and in most cases the linebackers, from doing their jobs. The less successful the defensive front seven, the more successful the offensive line. It doesn't matter whether a block is a quick chip or drive block through the back of the end zone, as long as it prevents the defender from making the play. Realistically, an offensive lineman can do no better than prevent his counterpart from succeeding.

The impact that an opposing front-seven defenders make can be gauged by each play's impact in terms of a team's win probability or point expectancy, measured by +WPA (Win Probability Added) or +EPA (Expected Points Added). These stats count only plays in which the defense scores a "victory" by forcing a setback on the offense. An offensive line can be measured by how few "victories" they allow, measured by how little WPA or EPA they forfeit to their opposing front seven. Although these stats paint only part of the picture, they can tell us a good deal about how an offensive line compares to the rest of the league. (A full explanation can be found here.)

The Redskins' offensive line ranks last in the league in WPA, with a total of -1.53 games lost. This means that, in theory, given a league-average offensive line, the Redskins would have at least one and probably two more wins by now. The lowest moment was perhaps the strip sack fumble return for a game-deciding touchdown against the Lions, a pivotal play in terms of win probability.

In terms of expected points, the line fares slightly better, ranking 30th out of 32 lines with -23.2 EPA. This means that with a league-average line, the Redskins would have more than 23 more net points (either scored or saved) to add to their season total. With the number of close games the Redskins played in 2010, those points would have certainly been significant.

The Redskins line has allowed 40 sacks (second worst in the league) for 288 sack yards (worst) to defensive linemen and rushing linebackers. They've also allowed 76 QB hits (second worst) and 71 tackles for losses (worst). (Offensive line stats for all 32 teams can be found here.)

Digging a little deeper, the numbers may implicate quarterback Donovan McNabb's role in his offensive line's numbers. On running plays, the line looks much better with +10.7 EPA (slightly above average) than on pass plays with -33.9 EPA (second worst in the league). No other line has such a large split between running and passing. Either the line is a much better run- blocking line than pass-blocking line, or McNabb hasn't been able to find receivers, get rid of the ball, or scramble when necessary to avoid getting hit.

Usually when the numbers are as extreme as they are here, it's a matter of both. Either way, unless pass protection is a top priority in the offseason, 2011 may be just as frustrating for the Redskins as 2010.


Brian Burke is the creator of Advanced NFL Stats, a Web site about football, statistics and game theory.

By Brian Burke  | December 23, 2010; 6:07 AM ET
Categories:  Offensive line, Statistical analysis  
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Next: Healthy Jammal Brown: 'I'm becoming my old self'

Comments

"Statistical analysis: How the o-line stacks up"


It sucks. No stats necessary...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 6:38 AM | Report abuse

Oh God, Brian Burke.

He is my Newman.

Posted by: iH8dallas | December 23, 2010 6:41 AM | Report abuse

Redskins notes and analysis

By: John Keim


1. Quarterback Rex Grossman understands the national perception of him. It’s been evident since 2006 when he played for Chicago. One good game would precede a bad one and a reputation was carved. That season, his last as a full-time starter, he had five games where his passer rating was 40 or below – and seven where it was 100 or higher.
“I’m definitely stereotyped as an inconsistent quarterback and I’m doing everything possible to change that perception,” Grossman said. “The only way you can change that perception is to play consistently. It’s nothing you have to overthink; it’s just a matter of doing it.”

2. Receiver Santana Moss said it was Grossman’s time at Florida that stuck with him. When Moss was at Miami, they played the Gators in the Orange Bowl. “He threw the ball everywhere and to everybody,” Moss said. “So when I saw he was coming over here I was like, ‘That’s Rex Grossman, he’s the gunslinger.’ That’s what we called him in college…It’s bad he went through that in Chicago, but that’s his past. He has a chance to put that behind him.”

3. Grossman likes this offense because of the tempo. He made it clear he liked playing for then-offensive coordinator Ron Turner in Chicago. But Kyle Shanahan’s offense helps him play fast. He was often getting to the line of scrimmage with approximately 20 seconds left on the play clock. “It puts more pressure on the defense to line up faster and be ready,” he said. “A lot of times we went on the first sound with no cadence, just to get going and it helps catch the defense off-guard. It’s putting pressure on them as well as being able to get to the line and if you have any calls to make, make those calls.”

4. Coach Mike Shanahan disagreed with Donovan McNabb’s assessment of what he was told last week. McNabb said on his radio show that he learned he would be the No. 3 quarterback through media reports. “I did sit down with Donovan in detail and told him why he’d be No. 2 in Dallas and why he’d be No. 3 in the following two games,” Shanahan said. “I felt very good about our conversation.”

5. This is the second time McNabb has said he wasn’t told something when the coaches say he was. The first? After his benching in Detroit McNabb said no one mentioned the possibility he could get yanked if the coaches thought he looked injured.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 6:42 AM | Report abuse

6. The Redskins placed nose guard Maake Kemoeatu on injured reserve, thanks to a left shoulder that will require surgery Monday. Kemoeatu missed 2009 with a torn Achilles’ tendon that bothered him into this season.

7. Kemoeatu said his shoulder was only 50 percent effective much of the season. Of the 13 games he played, he probably struggled in the great majority. His leg strength was clearly less than what he needed early in the season. And the shoulder will affect any lineman.
“It’s been a rough season,” Kemoeatu said.
The Redskins still have to upgrade at this spot. Anthony Bryant is inconsistent and perhaps he could develop, but he’s also 29 and not sure how much he’s going to change. Still, he’s a decent backup.

8. Meanwhile, safety Reed Doughty (head), defensive end Kedric Golston (groin), safety Kareem Moore (knee) and linebacker Brian Orakpo (groin/hamstring) did not practice. Golston is considered a “longshot” to play vs. Jacksonville, Shanahan said.

9. Right tackle Jammal Brown said his hip is feeling much better and it’s evident in his play, which has improved in recent weeks. He underwent surgery on his left hip in 2009, causing him to miss the entire season. The scar tissue finally broke up this season, sometime after the Oct. 31 game vs. Detroit.
“At the halfway mark [of the season], you couldn’t tell if he was going to get well,” Shanahan said.
But he did.
“I wish it were Week 3 right now,” said Brown, a free agent after the season. “[But] they’ve seen what I can do.”

10. Running back Clinton Portis, on injured reserve for a lower abdominal injury, said during his paid weekly radio show on 106.7 The Fan that some players looked like they were playing scared vs. Dallas. His point: if McNabb could get benched, anyone could.
“Clinton better worry about his stomach and getting well,” Shanahan said.

10. Not sure what Portis was talking about. The Redskins did not seem to play scared. Rather, their defense struggled and their offense took a while to get going. How is that being scared? Just think Portis says things sometimes just to say them.

11. The Redskins signed linebacker Rob Jackson and defensive lineman Darrion Scott to the active roster. They also signed defensive lineman Rashaad Duncan and tackle Xavier Fulton to the practice squad.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2010/12/redskins-notes-and-analysis-4#ixzz18vz8q77e

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 6:44 AM | Report abuse

The o-line is bad we need this crap to prove that.

The line will be fixed sorry it couldn't be done in one offseason with no good FA's and limited draft picks.

They got the LT and this year with a great FA class and more draft picks they will fix the rest of it.

What they shouldn't do is use a top 10 draft pick on the o-line since the only o-linemen worth that is a LT.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 6:45 AM | Report abuse

Hope you're right Flound...but you gotta think this team would be in so much better shape right now if they didn't use that 2nd rounder on McNabb and got the best available tackle instead. What I wouldn't do for a mulligan on that trade so we could get all the line help we could in the 2010 draft and then start racking up skill position players (QB, WR, RB) in the 2011 draft. But what's done is done, I guess...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Brown,

Thats true but like you say it's over so we move on.

The 2nd round pick could have been a bust as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 6:58 AM | Report abuse

The 2nd round pick could have been a bust as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 6:58 AM


Yeah, but he'd be OUR bust.

Ugh...that's what we've been reduced to...SMH...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 7:13 AM | Report abuse

And, we gave him 3.5 million more for no reason when they knew he wasn't in their plans.

Posted by: dcwun | December 22, 2010 10:05 PM |

They gave him 3.5 mil. to control his rights, they can sit on him until the first game of the regular season. If a team wants him earlier then that they will have to trade for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 7:23 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else read this stuff about Rex Ryan and the foot fetish stuff with his wife? Un...f-ing...believable...

http://deadspin.com/5715741/this-may-or-may-not-be-rex-ryans-wife-making-foot+fetish-videos?skyline=true&s=i

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 7:35 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 7:35 AM

What in the hell is it about the foot that could possibly excite these guys? Are there elbow guys?

Being with a beautiful woman and focusing on her feet is like going to the Grand Canyon and fixating on the parking lot.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 23, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse

What in the hell is it about the foot that could possibly excite these guys? Are there elbow guys?

Being with a beautiful woman and focusing on her feet is like going to the Grand Canyon and fixating on the parking lot.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 23, 2010 7:52 AM

LOL...amen to that, MC. I'm far from a foot guy (I'm actually a little put off by feet, to be honest), but I know what pretty feet look like...and I don't see the hype about her hind paws. Doesn't look like she paints the nails or anything special, plus they look too big for her body...as if you put Fred Flintstone's feet on Wilma. To each his own, I guess...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

The way Barney always looked at Wilma...I had a feeling they were hooking up...which was strange because Betty was much hotter.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

What in the hell is it about the foot that could possibly excite these guys? Are there elbow guys?

Being with a beautiful woman and focusing on her feet is like going to the Grand Canyon and fixating on the parking lot.

Posted by: MColeman51 | December 23, 2010 7:52 AM


LOL...amen to that, MC. I'm far from a foot guy (I'm actually a little put off by feet, to be honest), but I know what pretty feet look like...and I don't see the hype about her hind paws. Doesn't look like she paints the nails or anything special, plus they look too big for her body...as if you put Fred Flintstone's feet on Wilma. To each his own, I guess...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 8:09 AM
------------------------------------------
You guys are talking like anything Rex Ryan does should be normal.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 23, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

LOL PA...what's the matter, not into redheads?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

This is really not a case where we need stats to prove something -- no one disagrees that the offensive line sucks.

Still, it's funny to see fans arguing to draft a wide receiver or running back. The Skins need to draft offensive linemen early and often. The only position that is set is left tackle -- Brown can't be trusted to make it through a season. And they need good young long-term solutions, not signing some 30-year-old who went to the Pro Bowl back when he was good.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 23, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse


The way Barney always looked at Wilma...I had a feeling they were hooking up...which was strange because Betty was much hotter.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 8:21 AM |
------------

which explains bam-bam, pebbles half brother

Posted by: hessone | December 23, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

The Rex Ryan thing is commical, only he can get himself into predicaments like that.
On another note:
The best thing about this year has been the yellow pants with the white jerseys. I keep thinking I'm going to see Kilmer come marching on the field with his beer gut and single bar face mask.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 23, 2010 8:31 AM | Report abuse

The way Barney always looked at Wilma...I had a feeling they were hooking up...which was strange because Betty was much hotter.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

She may have been hotter -- but something wasn't clicking right. She and Barney never managed to have any kids of their own... Bamm Bamm was adopted.

Posted by: Vic1 | December 23, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

LOL PA...what's the matter, not into redheads?

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 8:26 AM

Oh I like'em all brown! But had a bit of a thing for Betty...Wilma seemed like a nag...but that was probably Fred's lazy ass fault.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Tigers love pepper. Tigers hate cinnamon...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 23, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Statistical analysis: How the o-line stacks up

Not only do we need o-line upgrades, our defensive line needs it, too.

The Cerrato Administration (INSERT giggles here) neglected both sides of the line during it's tenure.

Presently, Kedric Golston is the only drafted defensive lineman that's a starter.

One thing about the upcoming draft is that it has defensive linemen in the positions where we have needs de-end, d-tackle, nose guard.

And we must take from the draft what it gives.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

The best thing about this year has been the yellow pants with the white jerseys. I keep thinking I'm going to see Kilmer come marching on the field with his beer gut and single bar face mask.

Posted by: joeboggs | December 23, 2010 8:31 AM


Um, that was Rex Grossman...

For real though...easy co-sign on the gold pants. I'll never understand why they ever got away from such a great look...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Peppermint Patty was way to into Lucy. Not that Marcy calling her Sir and the birckenstocks didn't give it away.

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 23, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Re: Feet

Have fun with that discussion. I'm going to the bench for that 2 minute drill.


Re: Offensive Line WPA

"Either the line is a much better run- blocking line than pass-blocking line, or McNabb hasn't been able to find receivers, get rid of the ball, or scramble when necessary to avoid getting hit."

Considering Rex Grossman got sacked 5x against Dallas, I think it's a matter of our line being positively absolutely completely atrocious at pass-blocking. I know its hard to fathom and you want to lay some blame at the QB's feet, but the line is just that bad.


Re: Shanny's comments in response to CP from last thread

Translation: "I don't give a rat's snout what CP thinks b/c he's gonna be one of the first cuts this offseason. That broken-down has-been should worry about his tummy-ache."

Posted by: p1funk | December 23, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

Now with regard to Josie and the Pussycats...

Let's just say, Meow, Meow!!

Posted by: Vic1 | December 23, 2010 8:46 AM | Report abuse

The Skins need to draft offensive linemen early and often.

The singular advantage to retaining Rex Grossman (something that might happen, y'all) would be the team deciding to snag Auburn's top defensive lineman Nick Fairley with the 1st pick and then devoting picks to a mix of line positions.

Chosing to keep Rex while building around him is kinda sorta like what could've happened with JC.

Rex's weaknesses are minimized if the people around and in front of him are better: that's how he got the bears to the Super Bowl.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Cartoon Character Edition


The following lovable cartoon characters are now free to serve our country without suppressing their sexual-orientation:

Pink Panther

Squidward

Batman

Tom

Jerry

Top Kat

Vanity Smurf

Snaggle Puss

Freddie from 'Scooby-Doo'

Wimpy of 'Popeye' fame

The Funky Phantom

SpongeBoB

Josie and the Puzzycats ( a lesbo band that solves crime?)

Elmer Fudd

Stewie

Milhouse

Robin

Barney the Dinosaur

Linus Van Pelt

Sandy Squirrel

Wonder Woman

Velma from 'Scooby-Doo'

Superman

Magilla Gorilla (tight pants, bow tie, suspenders, hat--but no shirt!!!)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 23, 2010 9:07 AM | Report abuse

mista,

Agree,

I still say a top 10 shouldn't be used on o-line unless it's a LT and we did that last year.

Look through the entire draft history you will not come up with many o-line drafted in the top 10 that were not LT.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

How do I know we've hit rock bottom?

Moe is talking about building around Rex Grossman...and he's not joking.

I just puked in my mouth a little...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 9:11 AM | Report abuse

You've gotta hope Jammal Brown does better next year, what with his scar tissue broken up and his acclimation to the right side improving. We could use a new left guard (since something is apparently very wrong with Derrick Dockery) and a center capable of taking on Jay Ratliff and the like, but centers and guards can be found in the mid to late rounds.

We need to trade out of the first round or take a WR or nose tackle with the first pick. I like the line on OSU's Stephen Paea from cbssports.com:

Paea (pie-uh) is one of the premier defensive tackles in the nation … considered opting out of his senior year for the NFL Draft, but will return for what could be an All-America season … strong player with a rugby background from his youth in Tonga … faces constant double teams … has quickness and strength to wreak havoc on opposing backfields … the strongest player on the team, and possibly the nation's strongest tackle

Posted by: crashinghero | December 23, 2010 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Flound, I wouldn't worry about picking OL in the 1st round...we have just as much need on the D-line and I'd bet the house Shanahan goes QB in Round 1 anyway. We've got plenty of holes that could be addressed with that pick, and as long as we get a stud OL in FA and/or the 2nd round, I'm fine with looking elsewhere in Round 1.

The in notes I posted from Keim, he says Jammal Brown is starting to play a lot better...if he gets back to Pro-Bowl form, that's gonna be HUGE...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Then again Brown is an unrestricted free agent and may want to go to a team that will agree to let him compete for the LT spot in camp.

Obviously, with Trent Williams on the club Brown is not going to be playing LT in Washington.

Posted by: RoyHobbs4 | December 23, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse


The problem is that they should have done this last year. Now they are going to try and rebuild without a full complement of draft picks.

They should have traded away Cooley, Fletcher, Carter and Haynesworth last year. Now the players value is diminished.

It is easy to blame Cerrato but the new regime has not done any better than the previous.

Teams that can't effectively pick players in the first 5 rounds of the draft will have very little sustained success.

On top of all of the holes on the Oline and front 7 they also need a starting QB which is very difficult to find. The teams that have sustained success and make the playoffs on a consistent basis have have franchise QBs. NWE, Indy, Pitt, Bal, SD, Atl and NO.

This is going to be a 3 year rebuilding process at least. The amount of play by the rookies is pathetic. A 5-9 team coming off of a 4 win season should have most of it's draft picks on the field contributing. It is going to be a long process.

Posted by: srobert1117 | December 23, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Who has a good link showing upcoming UFAs? Haven't found a good listing yet....

Posted by: smurff11 | December 23, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Georgia receiver heading for the NFL
Posted by Mike Florio on December 23, 2010, 7:21 AM EST

There will be a draft in 2011, even if there isn’t a football season. And even though draft picks won’t be paid until the labor situation is resolved, some guys apparently are willing to not play for free at the NFL level than to continue to play for free at the college level.

According to Channel 2 in Atlanta, Georgia receiver A.J. Green will leave school early for the draft.

“There is a 100 percent chance he is gone, and a possible lockout has no bearing on his decision,” said Zach Klein of Channel 2, via the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

Green was suspended four games for selling his bowl jersey from last season. He still caught 49 passes for 771 yards and nine touchdowns.

Georgia faces Central Florida in the Liberty Bowl on December 31.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if we still have Robert Henson?

Posted by: wattsicon | December 23, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

They should have traded away Cooley, Fletcher, Carter and Haynesworth last year. Now the players value is diminished.

It is easy to blame Cerrato but the new regime has not done any better than the previous.

Teams that can't effectively pick players in the first 5 rounds of the draft will have very little sustained success.

On top of all of the holes on the Oline and front 7 they also need a starting QB which is very difficult to find. The teams that have sustained success and make the playoffs on a consistent basis have have franchise QBs. NWE, Indy, Pitt, Bal, SD, Atl and NO.

This is going to be a 3 year rebuilding process at least. The amount of play by the rookies is pathetic. A 5-9 team coming off of a 4 win season should have most of it's draft picks on the field contributing. It is going to be a long process.

Posted by: srobert1117 | December 23, 2010 9:33 AM |

They didn't have a full compliment of draft picks last year, and trading all the players you mentioned would have mad more holes to fill.

This was always going to be a 3-4 year rebuild no matter who they got last year.

Cerrato had 10 years and Shanny has had one off-season with the worse FA's class in history do to the CBA and limited draft picks left by Vinny. There one in the same though good call.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

My .02 cents

At this point, I think the Skins will go stud QB or stud OLB with their first pick. NT and pass rushing OLBs are at the top of the pecking order in a 3-4. Without a viable counterpart, Rak's production has suffered. That needs to be addressed. While I really like the DE class early in the draft, Hasslet really doesn't ask his DE to do much except occupy Olmen, even in pass rush situations. Those types of DE/DT can be had in the middle rounds.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

We're taking QB in the first round.

The only thing left to discuss is which one...and what we do after the first round.

Just a thought here - there are some mid-round Tackles coming out this year who might make excellent Guards, given Shanny's preference for athletic Guards with the the spead and agility to get to the second level and handle LB's

Guys like:
Marcus Gilbert 6-5 320 Florida 5.23-40
Chris Hairston 6-7 325 Clemson 5.18-40 (All ACC 1st team)
James Brewer 6-6 330 Indiana 5.36-40

They have good speed, good size, are athletic and verstile. I think it's worth considering grabbing two of these types in the 5th round. Get some insurance at tackle and upgrade the scrappy 6-2 285 Lichyurmother doormat to a 6-5 320 bulldozer who can pass protect and run block.

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if we still have Robert Henson?

Posted by: wattsicon | December 23, 2010 9:47 AM |

He was IR'd in the preaseason.

Posted by: PlayAction | December 23, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

quote from Rex via John Keim's redskins note..
......
“A lot of times we went on the first sound with no cadence, just to get going and it helps catch the defense off-guard. It’s putting pressure on them as well as being able to get to the line and if you have any calls to make, make those calls.”
.....close quote..

Did I read that right? Does this mean the Skins have a QB that is allowed to make his own calls (audibles notwithstanding)?
If true, only a handful of QBs are given that latitude... Brady, Peyton..etc.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 23, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know if we still have Robert Henson?

Posted by: wattsicon | December 23, 2010 9:47 AM


++++++++++

Yep. Injured Reserve.

Posted by: smurff11 | December 23, 2010 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: smurff11 | December 23, 2010 9:34 AM


http://nfltraderumors.co/2011-nfl-free-agents/

Posted by: kerzon417 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

6. The tired line of "two SBs on the backs of Elway & Davis."

Posted by: Diesel44 | December 22, 2010 9:09 PM

Why is this tired? The facts seem to bear it out:

Shanahan coaching record:

LA Raiders: 8-12

Broncos (4 years + Elway/Davis): 47-17
(7-1 playoff record, 2 SBs)

Broncos (10 years - Elway/Davis): 91-69
(1-3 playoff record)

Skins: 5-8


(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan, and without Davis.)


Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

One thing Ive noticed that the lame writers and announcers who pass as "analysts" haven't even mentioned..... The line has improved quite a bit the last two weeks... Jamaal Brown is now playing through the entire game... I haven't seen the scary word "Heyer" in weeks... Also, Montgomery is starting.... Far more mobile than Hicks... The Lichtensteiger/Montgomery duo is playing well and getting Torrain out in space... Raybach has got to go... Trent has been an animal... We have two good tackles to build from... This line in current configuration is a lot better.....It's obvious that the Dockery/Hicks experiment is over.

Posted by: Capitalist-1 | December 23, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Why is this tired? The facts seem to bear it out:

Shanahan coaching record:

LA Raiders: 8-12

Broncos (4 years + Elway/Davis): 47-17
(7-1 playoff record, 2 SBs)

Broncos (10 years - Elway/Davis): 91-69
(1-3 playoff record)

Skins: 5-8


(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan, and without Davis.)

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM |

Did Elway win any of those SB's with out Shanny? NO

Who drafted Davis and who's scheme finally put the team over the top in the 3rd year?

SHANNY

91-69 after Elway/Davis I would take that over the sh-t the Skins did in those same 10 years.

How is the golden boy doing who replced Shanny, not to good.

Alan you act like this was a easy clean and fix since you are so smart from behing your cubicle what should have happened instead of hiring Shanny?

All you do is b-tch but never offer any solutions.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 23, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Beeps

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 9:59 AM

I like your thinking here. That strategy can work particularly if the Skins address the Oline in FA. BTW, I think they have to address at least one of the lines in the FA market. They can't go into the draft looking for starters for 80% of the Dline and Oline. Speaking of the 5th round, I'd like to throw a D1 AA player from Villanova...Ben Ijalana. He's their starting LT, but probably fits better at guard since he's 6-4. He's 320, but he's still mobile enough and he's solid in pass pro. Probably a backup his first couple of years, but you could do worse.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:18 AM | Report abuse

(Note: Elway played in 3 Super Bowls without Shanahan and lost them all.)

Posted by: Alan4 | December 23, 2010 10:05 AM


There...fixed it for ya...

Look, I'm as mad at Shanahan as anyone up here but let's not play revisionist history...surely you understand how stupid it is to try and begrudge a coach for winning two SBs with a HoF QB. Nobody does this to Lombardi or Jimmy Johnson or Mike Holmgren so I don't get why Shanahan should be any different. Very few coaches in NFL history have multiple SBs and Shanahan is in that fraternity. To hate on that because he had a couple great players is criminally insane.

Not only is it insane, it's just blatantly wrong...fact of the matter is, Elway was the guy who "couldn't win the big one" until Shanahan came along and Shanahan hasn't won anything before or since. If anything, they needed each other equally...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 23, 2010 10:22 AM | Report abuse

just a thought

I think the defense needs to do a change in their LB core

ILBs = Fletcher and Alexander

OLBs = Orakpo, Riley (and hopefully Henson)

Riley can flat out tackle and Henson, during the preseason looks promising

Posted by: datruth21 | December 23, 2010 10:23 AM | Report abuse

This is really not a case where we need stats to prove something -- no one disagrees that the offensive line sucks.

Still, it's funny to see fans arguing to draft a wide receiver or running back. The Skins need to draft offensive linemen early and often. The only position that is set is left tackle -- Brown can't be trusted to make it through a season. And they need good young long-term solutions, not signing some 30-year-old who went to the Pro Bowl back when he was good.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 23, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I've got to disagree, ds. I think JBrown has played much better during the past month. I think he has gotten over the hip problems, and made the adjustment to the right side. I'm hoping we can resign him soon.

I also think Wil Montgomery is showing promise. We should be able to find a good C/G in FA, that will solidify the line. And I'm anxious to see Cook play.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 23, 2010 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of the 5th round, I'd like to throw a D1 AA player from Villanova...Ben Ijalana. He's their starting LT, but probably fits better at guard since he's 6-4. He's 320, but he's still mobile enough and he's solid in pass pro. Probably a backup his first couple of years, but you could do worse.

Posted by: TWISI | December 23, 2010 10:18 AM

He's all over my radar. My brother is a Villanova grad, so he has not gone unnoticed.

Good call.

Posted by: edvar | December 23, 2010 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"Being with a beautiful woman and focusing on her feet is like going to the Grand Canyon and fixating on the parking lot."

You've never met a civil engineer?

Posted by: zimbar | December 23, 2010 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Shanahan has 3 Superbowl rings too. As OC for the San Francisco 49ers.

Posted by: JSchon | December 23, 2010 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Washington's R1 draft pick should be a good show. If they lose the last two games, they have a shot at two QB's - Andrew Luck and Jake Locker. If they win one, it's Ryan Mallett who reminds many of Brett Favre. On draft day, Snyder will show up in the war room despite lacking an invitation and demand they pick WR A.J. Green because it's sexier. A fist fight will start as the clock winds down and they will make desperation pick choosing Nick Fairley and announce they will convert him to a NT despite his obvious pass rushing skills.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | December 23, 2010 1:01 PM | Report abuse

This is the same story as last year and the year before and the.................!
Broken record. Thats why the last QB is gone.

Posted by: goslin57 | December 23, 2010 1:09 PM | Report abuse

I predict that not only will the Redskins take a QB in the first round, they will trade later round and/or (probably 'and') 2012 draft choices to do so.

Posted by: jack_mo_99 | December 23, 2010 1:54 PM | Report abuse

If the Skins use their 1st Rounder on a QB, they won't get another O-line starter in the draft. Imho, that would be another personnel mistake.

Posted by: nyskinsdiehard | December 23, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Where we are drafting you could get a top guard or center. Start there.

Posted by: ElYeah | December 24, 2010 12:28 AM | Report abuse

What a surprise. Draft an O-Lineman high in the draft every 10 years whether you need it or not, and it sucks. Thank you Dan. Thank you Vinny. Sell the team, Dan.

Posted by: jburnetti | December 24, 2010 3:32 PM | Report abuse

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