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Posted at 6:00 AM ET, 11/24/2010

Statistical analysis: Redskins keep it exciting

By Brian Burke
Statistical analysis

Some notes and analysis from Sunday's big win over Tennessee:

The Redskins have played in some especially exciting games this season, and Sunday's overtime game against the Titans was no exception. The 'excitement' of a game can actually be measured by how much the graph of the game's win probability swings. By this measure, the Redskins have played in six of the 30 most riveting games this season. Often it's not the 38-35 shootouts that are the most exciting. Sometimes the most exciting games are tight, low scoring games with one or two missed field goals in critical situations, just like on Sunday.

Sunday was a reminder that field goals are not automatic. Coaches and coordinators often think of 'field goal range' as an all-or-nothing proposition. They'll maneuver their teams to barely get to the 30, and then run extremely conservative plays before sending the kicker out to attempt an almost 50-yard field goal. On average, 48-50 yard field goals are good about 60 percent of the time. At longer ranges, every yard closer makes a significant difference in a kick's accuracy. Coaches should be more aggressive around the 30-yard line, and if time and game situation allows, go for the conversion on fourth down. The deep pass attempt to Anthony Armstrong just prior to the game-winning kick was out of the norm for NFL play-calling.

Ultimately, it was penalties that allowed the Redskins to win. Except for the 26-yard pass to Chris Cooley on the winning overtime drive, the Titans handed the victory over on a platter. Of the net 57 yards gained on the drive, 35 came from penalties, including two 15-yard personal fouls and one 5-yard illegal contact penalty. Those three penalties alone accounted for 0.37 Win Probability Added (WPA). Only Graham Gano's final two field-goal attempts and Phillip Buchanon's fourth-quarter interception had bigger impacts on the outcome of the game.

One of the biggest plays of the game was wiped off the books. Late in the third quarter, the Titans went for it on 4th and 3 from the Redskins' 36 (statistically a great call, by the way). Randy Moss pulled in a deep pass for a touchdown, but was called for offensive pass interference, and the touchdown was nullified. Had Moss been able to make a clean play, the Titans would have a 7-point lead and a 78 percent chance of winning. With the penalty and the punt, the game was perfectly even at 50 percent for each team.

Donovan McNabb is playing right in line with his career averages. His adjusted Yards per Attempt for 2010 is 4.9 compared to 5.2 for his career. Since 2000, he's averaged 0.05 WPA/G and this year it's 0.06 so far. His 2010 success rate (the percentage of plays that improve the offense's likelihood of scoring) is 45.9 percent compared to 45.8 percent since 2000. His 2010 completion rate is 57.5 percent, just below his decade average of 59.4 percent. His 2010 sack rate is right on his career average at 7.0 percent. The Redskins are getting what they could have expected when they traded for the veteran quarterback.

The NFC wildcard teams are probably going to need to win at least 10 games this season, so the Redskins would need to finish 5-1 to have a reasonable chance at the playoffs. Based on measures of team strength and forthcoming schedules, the numbers give the Redskins a 6 percent chance of making the postseason. Winning out would guarantee a playoff berth. Their most likely final record is 7-9.


Brian Burke is the creator of Advanced NFL Stats, a Web site about football, statistics and game theory.

By Brian Burke  | November 24, 2010; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  Statistical analysis  
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Next: Donovan McNabb helps feed the needy

Comments

Ugh...F this number crunching--here's some REAL Redskin analysis:

Keim's Studs and Duds:

Studs

Offensive line. Here’s the deal: individually, they really weren’t all that impressive. Will Montgomery was shoved back a bit too often; Kory Lichtensteiger had one bad block for every good one. Stephon Heyer had some issues at guard. But, cripes, there’s no way they deserve to be anywhere but on this list because collectively they saved the game. Their communication appeared excellent; didn’t see anyone confused by a stunt. The Titans helped out by sometimes using such a narrow split by the interior three that the Redskins could easily pass guys off to one another. A couple times Lichtensteiger was able to bump a guy off stride while partially engaged with another defender. In fact, on the winning drive in overtime, Lichtensteiger reached out enough to slow a blitzing defensive back. And that gave Donovan McNabb enough time to complete a 10-yard pass to Santana Moss rather than get drilled for a sack. Heyer played a new spot on the fly and, really, did he look any worse than he has at tackle? Not one bit. The tackles did a fairly good job; there were some issues in space with Jammal Brown and Trent Williams allowed some pressure. There were a number of times when the tight ends would handle the ends, who weren’t very good, allowing the tackles to help inside. The Titans could not spread the interior very well and create gaps; the Redskins blocking schemes also helped take care of this. But overall? Gutsy effort.

OC Kyle Shanahan. Considering who went down on the offense, Shanahan could have shied away from his game plan. Actually, his game plan was well-suited for what happened. The Redskins used a lot of short drops for McNabb; he often threw within two or three seconds of dropping back. Shanahan appeared to know where the blitzes were coming from and would have plays called for that side – as on some of the screens. Being able to convert third downs enabled Shanahan to use more of the playbook; hence the screens to Fred Davis and the shovel pass to Moss. Ten different Redskins caught passes. Even Joey Galloway!

more...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 6:09 AM | Report abuse

continued...

QB Donovan McNabb. Maybe one of his best plays came on the 26-yard pass to Chris Cooley on the Redskins first play of overtime. McNabb ran a boot to his left and needed to plant and throw back deep to the right. However, flubbed blocks by Brown and Keiland Williams on the defensive linemen led to pressure and McNabb had to reverse back to the middle. Still, he hit Cooley for a big gain. Had the block been held, it probably would have been a bigger play. Still, McNabb’s mobility saved a negative one. Anyone who wanted McNabb to explode when he was benched should be thankful for his calm demeanor. With all that happened Sunday, it enabled him to stay poised. He should have been picked off at least twice, but he wasn’t. His pass to Moss in the left corner was perfect and his misses weren’t as ugly as in some other games. But, really, his leadership made a tremendous difference. Just ask the Titans if they’d like their QB to show such leadership.

CB DeAngelo Hall. He was in position to nearly intercept two more passes and did a good job over the top vs. Randy Moss, not that the Titans seem to know he’s on the roster or anything. Kareem Moore helped out underneath, but Hall was solid and he even made a nice tackle on a Chris Johnson run around the end; had he not made it, Johnson would have run a while.

LB London Fletcher. He only had seven tackles, but he made a few very nice hits, including one on a Johnson catch over the middle. Had some good coverages. What I liked is how when the run defense worked it was often because of how Fletcher either plugged the hole and forced a different cut or took on a lead blocker. Gotta give Reed Doughty props on that, too, because he was fearless taking on guards coming through the hole. Just fearless. Both of them deserve kudos, but Fletcher had a solid game overall.

TE Chris Cooley. I’m overlooking a number of bad blocks in this game and even a drop because when the Redskins needed him, he delivered. Cooley played as big a role in that win as anyone with all his seven catches (for 91 yards) coming in the fourth quarter and overtime. He seemed to will himself to a couple first downs, too. Cooley was clutch.

CB Phillip Buchanon. He wasn’t awesome, but he filled in for Carlos Rogers and finished with a fumble recovery and an interception. What more do you want. And he nearly had a second pick. He did allow a 14-yard catch on third and 8 in the second quarter when he slipped. But overall he was pretty solid.

LB Lorenzo Alexander. He didn’t do a whole lot because he got hurt. But his strip fumble of Vince Young might have changed the game. The Redskins could not afford to start off in a 7-0 hole after what had happened the previous week. But Alexander, coming from behind Young, stripped the QB for the turnover inside the Redskins’ 20-yard line.

more...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 6:11 AM | Report abuse

continued...

LB Brian Orakpo. I know the coaches say he’s doing well against the run; but not sure I buy how well they say he’s doing. Regardless, he did a fairly good job Sunday of at least making sure Chris Johnson did not get wide of him. The Redskins at times would have him jump wide of the tackle just before the snap, enabling him to turn the run back inside. Orakpo had a couple nice stops, destroyed the lead blocker on one tackle for a loss and also did a nice job in coverage. No sacks, a little pressure, but not a bad job.

WR Santana Moss. A very consistent day, and finally another big play downfield. Moss caught six passes for 106 yards and his 48-yarder helped ignite the offense. He ran a very nice route on his touchdown grab, darting inside and then cutting back outside. He ran a similar route on the other side, fooling Cortland Finnegan, who jumped him to the inside; left him wide open outside.

Duds


LS Nick Sundberg. His snaps have been a mild adventure all season, starting in training camp. It eased up for a few weeks, and none have been errant. But he makes it difficult for holder Hunter Smith and kicker Graham Gano. Kickers have made field goals off bad snaps for years, so I won’t just blame Sundberg. But he had two bad snaps on field goals and two more on punts, where Smith is having to reach down at his ankles or off to the side.

P Hunter Smith. His first punt put Washington in a horrible spot, a 22-yarder to the Tennessee 34-yard line. Again, bad snap; again, not enough of an excuse for this sort of punt. His 45-yarder was returned for a touchdown, but the Redskins had two players get hurt and another might have been blocked in the back. His other two punts were good, putting Tennessee inside the 10-yard line. Heck, now I wonder why I made him a dud. Oh, yeah, 22-yard punts on the road in the first game after a 31-point loss.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2010/11/studs-and-duds-redskins-titans#ixzz16CI6OTqf

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 6:12 AM | Report abuse

The 'excitement' of a game can actually be measured by how much the graph of the game's win probability swings.

by Brian Burke


What is he talking about? Call me a fan, but for me the 'excitement' of a Redskins game starts and ends with whether the Redskins win. What he calls 'excitement' I'd call tension. Yeah, it's tense if there are several changes, but if the Redskins lose I can't call it exciting.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 6:51 AM | Report abuse

Two things about this article surprise me....

6% chance of making the postseason?! That's it? Then you take a look at those five teams, what they have to play for and how good some of them are, and it doesn't seem so out of line.

It's hard to believe that McNabb is playing close to his career averages. I've been assuming that there was more to come. My perception of McNabb as an opponent was that, while he could be inaccurate at times (sometimes in the most critical of situations), he was a production machine who took care of the ball. I think McNabb has helped this team win five games this year by compensating for it's biggest offensive weakness. His propensity for getting rid of the ball quickly has compensated for the weak o-line. I have to admit though that I thought we could expect a higher completion rate, and yards per attempt. It just goes to show that, when it comes to on-field performance, McNabb is something of an enigma and very difficult to qualify. No wonder there has always been so much disagreement about him. He is a winner and a leader, but he has tendencies that can leave fans frustrated and confused. Perhaps, if he can just get his TD/INT ratio back to something closer to his career track record over the last six games, we can all focus more on the winning, the leadership, and the good things he brings.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 24, 2010 7:12 AM | Report abuse

Call me a fan, but for me the 'excitement' of a Redskins game starts and ends with whether the Redskins win. What he calls 'excitement' I'd call tension. Yeah, it's tense if there are several changes, but if the Redskins lose I can't call it exciting.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 6:51 AM


What would be exciting would be logging in to RI and getting actual football info instead of this idiotic numbers crunching.

I swear I have no idea what I'd do if it weren't for Keim at the Examiner...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 7:12 AM | Report abuse

Redskins sign DB Macho Harris


I like this signing as I thought Harris was a fine player coming out of VaTech.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 7:17 AM | Report abuse


Ultimately, it was penalties that allowed the Redskins to win.
---
is this guy burke really peterbilt ?

Posted by: hessone | November 24, 2010 7:25 AM | Report abuse

MColeman, the only thing that surprises me with McNabb's performance to date is the INT total...other than that, he's about par for the course.

Plus, I think you have to take this into account: the Shanahan offense emphasizes the run and the deep pass, meaning that the QB isn't allowed to get into a rhythm because A) he's not passing as often as most other QBs and B) deepers passes are lower pecentage plays, meaning the QB isn't going to complete 60% of his passes as often as you'd like.

Consider this: in McNabb's 11 years in Philly, he only completed 60% of his passes for the season 4 times. Out of the 4 years Elway played for Shanahan when he was HC in Denver, he completed 60% of his passes only once. In fact, he hit 60% of his throws only 3 of his 16 years in the league and never once before his 11th year.

Just furthers the notion that you can't fully quantify the worth of the QB in Shanahan's system based on numbers alone. That's why I think McNabb has been really good for the Redskins this year even though the numbers imply otherwise...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 7:30 AM | Report abuse

P Hunter Smith. His first punt put Washington in a horrible spot, a 22-yarder to the Tennessee 34-yard line. Again, bad snap; again, not enough of an excuse for this sort of punt. His 45-yarder was returned for a touchdown, but the Redskins had two players get hurt and another might have been blocked in the back. His other two punts were good, putting Tennessee inside the 10-yard line. Heck, now I wonder why I made him a dud. Oh, yeah, 22-yard punts on the road in the first game after a 31-point loss.

John Keim

Not "might have"...Doughty was definitely blocked in the back. Those aren't always easy to spot though...so, not b*tching...trying not to at least. The safety (Anderson?) getting hurt made the whole return possible.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 24, 2010 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Happy Thanksgiving


Indians: Your celebration comes at the end of our history.

You eat a meal while we outline the scope of genocide.

Pilgrim: I feel your pain, Tonto.

Why doncha just close the history book and eat some turkey?

And when you're done, we'll smoke your peace pipe and watch football.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Ultimately, it was penalties that allowed the Redskins to win.
---
is this guy burke really peterbilt ?

Posted by: hessone | November 24, 2010 7:25 AM

It would be more accurate to say "Ultimately, it was penalties that allowed the Redskins to win ON THAT DRIVE". Think back to Sunday. You can't tell me you didn't smile broadly when that goofball d-lineman hit Lichtensteiger and gave the Skins new life on a drive that was, at that point, over.

Posted by: MColeman51 | November 24, 2010 7:46 AM | Report abuse

Mcoleman51

It's hard to believe that McNabb is playing close to his career averages. I've been assuming that there was more to come.

Your observations have been made by some of us for the past month and a half.

Donovan McNabb is a finished product as a professional athlete.

The only direction he will move in is backwards as age eventually overcomes all our expectations for him.

If the trade for McNabb had been made 5 years ago, it would've been a sweet move for the redskins.

But for now, moving forward, we are about to re-tool the offense with younger playmakers and a used to be good veteran quarterback.

We are wedded to an older guy who just won't satisfy, no matter hwo he plays.

This whole ball o' redskin offensive wax was shaped the day and time McNabb signed his extension.

You have to hope we add two receivers and draft interior lineman this offseason to compliment our investment.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse

i'm frankly surprised at the negativity towards this stats guy. he posts, what, once a week (or so) out of the 30-something posts we get a week. i think these stat posts are a nice change up from the usual "so-and-so-thinks-the-upcoming-game-is-important" posts.

just take the stats for what they are: an attempt to quantify things. no one stat means everything. sometimes they offer interesting perspectives. i'm still trying to get a handle on how "WPA" is computed, but i can see it as a useful stat.

anyway.... continue the grumbling...

MColemean51,
about the punt returned for a TD, you said,
"Doughty was definitely blocked in the back. Those aren't always easy to spot though...so, not b*tching...trying not to at least. The safety (Anderson?) getting hurt made the whole return possible."

i saw both russell's injury and doughty's block in the back on that play. i even thought i saw another block in the back. i think that was also the play alexander got hurt. as the camera showed the returner from behind, i saw alexander pulling up grabbing his leg... that penalty that caused the re-kick was HUGE (probably had a high WPA...).

brownwood26,
agreed - sadly, keim's material is the most informative material here...

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 24, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

This is why you just can't give up on this season yet:

http://i.imgur.com/UZxgF.png

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

NNNNNNEEEEEERRRRRRDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 8:17 AM | Report abuse

The Redskins used a lot of short drops for McNabb;

why has it taken til the 10th game of the season for this to manifest itself....should have had this game plan in place since game 1...


moe, the yanks are doing jeet wrong...thats a straight up crime how they're handling that biz....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 24, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

rickyroge

We need EVERYTHING...and don't gimme this "Shanahan finds backs in the lower rounds crap"!!..We need speed and talent..


You are right to complain about the quality--or lack thereof--of the redskin running backs.

So far, our running backs are:

Chad Simpson

James Davis

Ryan Torain

Keiland Williams

Clinton Portis

Darryl Young

Portis' name doesn't even belong with that group.

But given that he's missed a ton o' games for the past two seasons, you'd be hard-pressed to consider him as just a guy who used to be a bell cow running back.

What you have to hope for is that out of Williams, Davis, and Torain, we find a starter next year as our draft should be offensive and defensive linemen.

Drafting a running back isn't a smart move for us as Williams and Torain have already proven to be 80-100 yard back types behind our mediocre offensive line.

We need a center, right/left guard, defensive tackle, outside linebacker and free safety.

FA should bring two receivers--hopefully--as when you compare the skins to other teams in the league, our lack of dynamic players on the edges is glaringly apparent.

But as for drafting a running back?: nawwww

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

...the numbers give the Redskins a 6 percent chance of making the postseason. Winning out would guarantee a playoff berth. Their most likely final record is 7-9.

By Brian Burke | November 24, 2010; 6:00 AM ET

Buzz kill

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

The only direction (McNabb) will move in is backwards as age eventually overcomes all our expectations for him.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 8:06 AM


John Elway, Rich Gannon, and Warren Moon all send their regards...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Forget about WPA, I'm worried about NPA (Nap Probability Added), PPA (Puke Probability Added), and DGTABPA (Dallas Getting Their Ass Beat Probability Added) for tomorrow!!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

beantown

the yanks are doing jeet wrong...thats a straight up crime how they're handling that biz....


Derek Jeter has made $205 million dollars as a New York Yankee.

They are offering him a 3 year, $45 million deal which mean he's the highest paid shortstop even though he doesn't have, say, Chase Utley or Hanley Ramirez type production.

The Yanks have low-balled everyone they've used up from Torre to Damon to Pettite to Wang to Posada.

Jeet should just get to the business side of baseball.

Or: he should swallow his pride and go play in Boston (if he can withstand the lowered expectations) just for the F of it.

Jeter at Fenway (or in Anaheim) would make great theater.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Excitement!

The hallmark of any cogent statistical analysis.

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 24, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26

John Elway, Rich Gannon, and Warren Moon all send their regards...


I don't quite remember which of those guys was traded for two picks after his 33rd birthday.

But you keep trying to find logic in that.

'Cuz I don't.


Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 8:35 AM | Report abuse

"if he can withstand the lowered expectations"

ha, touche moe...hope your turkey is dry, and your toilet clogs....I kid, I kid...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 24, 2010 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Forget about WPA, I'm worried about NPA (Nap Probability Added), PPA (Puke Probability Added), and DGTABPA (Dallas Getting Their Ass Beat Probability Added) for tomorrow!!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 8:26 AM

Is PPA directly proportional to BAC? If so then mine will be under 0.01...lots of driving to do tomorrow!

How did Albert do last Sunday? Guess I'll watch the 10 minute game summary OnDemand tonight...still pissed I missed the game, and can't comment!

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Moe, you insinuated that McNabb is going to get worse because he's older...so I don't get where you're going by reminding me of what we paid to get him.

QBs can't be lumped in the same category as RBs, O-lineman and the such when considering their age...unlike those positions, you can still be an effective and even elite player well into your late 30s. The 3 names I gave you are guys who played some of their best ball at ages similar to McNabb's.

I'm very well aware of the possiblity it doesn't happen like that for McNabb...I just think it's shortsighted to think that because he's turning 34 that he's gonna roll outta bed in the near future and not be able to play anymore. Especially when there are plenty of examples to the contrary.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 8:43 AM | Report abuse

attention all DT 11 ball lickers ... he was cut this morning by Carolina. I mean wow ... the next Randy moss is suddenly teamless again. I guess all you DT 11 lovers see something that no one else in the NFL sees - the guy is a bust, a loser, a bad player, a moron, a never was, a fool, and a nobody. peace (and happy turkey day)!

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | November 24, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Yeh, I love the Parity Chart!

It kinda shows the folly of statistical prediction... mebbe?

Posted by: DikShuttle | November 24, 2010 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Dude needs to move over to the baseball desk -- where such contrived stats are actually thought to have some meaning or relevance.

Only stat that counts on an NFL football field on any given game day is the final score.

Posted by: Vic1 | November 24, 2010 8:59 AM | Report abuse

The average age of Super Bowl winning quarterbacks is 29.8.

McNabb has 2 years where its not "crazy" to think of him leading a team to the superbowl, they just have to be the right type of team.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 24, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

...the numbers give the Redskins a 6 percent chance of making the postseason. Winning out would guarantee a playoff berth. Their most likely final record is 7-9.

By Brian Burke | November 24, 2010; 6:00 AM ET

Buzz kill

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse

He's a bigger buzz kill than Buzz Killington.

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 24, 2010 9:01 AM | Report abuse

the guy is a bust, a loser, a bad player, a moron, a never was, a fool, and a nobody. peace (and happy turkey day)!

Posted by: 4SkinzForever | November 24, 2010 8:45 AM | Report abuse

You just ruined pabrainiac's holiday!

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Who is for this? I know I am whenever Joe and Troy do Skins games:

Have You Ever Imagined A World Without Annoying NFL Announcers?
by Andrew Sharp • Nov 22, 2010 3:55 PM EST

Shh. Just... Dream with me, String.

On the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the NFL Network will broadcast a game without announcers. It will be a taped, packaged version of the Bengals-Jets from two days earlier. It will also be the first step to brighter tomorrow. Let's take a second to breathe it in.

No more Joe Buck. No more Tony Siragusa. No more Phil Simms. No Cris Collinsworth explaining what's wrong with Michael Vick and that the Eagles listen to too much hip-hop music. No more Matt Millen and Joe Theismann one-upping each other's inane rambling. NO MORE JON GRUDEN.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2010/11/22/1830394/nfl-films-bengals-jets-nfl-network

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

you insinuated that McNabb is going to get worse because he's older


Dude, it is a fact of sporting life that as any athlete ages, his skills decline.

My point, then, is that you trade two picks for a guy who's 26 not 33.

With youth, there is upside and response to consistent coaching.

Trading for a 33 year old quarterback with a lot of hits in his body means you've got a 2-3 year window to reap some sort of return on your investment.

Again: had McNabb been brought in to a redskin team with a solid o-line, healthy backs, skilled receivers, that makes sense.

But as it stands now, we're rebuilding with an older quarterback.

Who does that?

We might face a situation in 3 years were we have a good young offense headed by an older guy whose skills are on the wan.

There's a team in the league like that already.

It's called the Minnesota Vikings.

And they'll be in town Sunday.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Who is for this? I know I am whenever Joe and Troy do Skins games:

Have You Ever Imagined A World Without Annoying NFL Announcers?
by Andrew Sharp • Nov 22, 2010 3:55 PM EST

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:19 AM

Didn't they try this a while back in a live game kerz? Can't remember if I watched it or not. I'll try and check it out for a few on Saturday.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 9:23 AM | Report abuse

From the same article I posted a link to above. I am really looking forward to watching the replay of the Jets/Bengals game on Saturday:

This is why the NFL Network might just have stumbled onto the best idea of all time. When the Bengals and Jets play on Thanksgiving night, 15 players and coaches will be miked up, and 48 hours later, NFL Films will broadcast the game on Saturday with only the audio from the players and coaches. Like Hard Knocks, but in a real, regular season game. Steve Sabol, NFL Films mastermind and proprietor of the coolest job in the universe, explains:

"We’ve got 15 players and coaches miked during the game, including both coaches and all the coordinators and quarterbacks and middle linebackers. We’ll have 60 people shooting the game, which is more than we use for a Super Bowl, and then we’ll turn it around in 48 hours and show it to you through the eyes of the players. It’s something you won’t see anywhere else."

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Certainly been tight and exciting wins..Hopefully Emperor Gates just raisin' the tension level to increase defense funding since we're "leaving"(?) Iraq and Afghanistan soon, and he'll send the Pyongyang Emperor a case of whiskey and cigars for X-Mas..Ol' Rupert Murdoch is still living in Peking with his young Chinese wife, insuring the latest in state surveillance electronics from your Christmas presents from Wal-Mart, so I don't see them blowing a good gig and starting the Apocalypse anytime soon..But, maybe not..

How 'Bout Them Skins??!

Posted by: frak | November 24, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

PA, if they did I missed it, but I know I have watched many a game with the tv muted.

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I have a feeling that today we will hear the Redskins are sad to report they have put Clinton Portis on season ending injured reserve. I think this was on the minds of Allen and Shanahan when they elevated Davis.

I believe Rabach will be headed in the same direction. Maybe Heyer's decent play at guard, and the theft of Robinson from the developmental roster, will have the Redskins considering the elevation of Selvish Capers to the active roster to both protect their investment and to get a versatile player on the roster.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 24, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

The really idiotic thing about the statistics is that, based on playoff predictions at footballoutsiders.com, the Titans at 5-5 have a 40% chance of getting in, while the Redskins at 5-5 have an 8% chance. These statistics are based on prior production during this season, and don't take into account teams that have traditionally done better in the winter (the Redskins, at least on their two most recent playoff runs) and teams that have significant personnel questions going forward (the Titans).

I don't think, after Sunday, that anyone would seriously argue that the Titans are more likely to go to the playoffs than the Redskins. Also, I've read playoff articles this morning by Keim, Jones, and Reid, and they all seem to forget that someone from the NFC West has to get in. A travesty, but true.

Posted by: crashinghero | November 24, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

C'mon Moe...you're better than this, dude.

Yes, athletes' skills diminish once they clear 30. But you're talking about a QB. Lateral agility, 40 times, and other more athletic traits aren't as important as they are for other positions on the field. If McNabb's arm strength, decision making, and accuracy remain in place (hey, 2 outta 3 ain't bad) then he can still be an effective player, regardless of age.

We had this same discussion a while back and I listed all the QBs to win a SB who were McNabb's age or older. I could have saved time just listing the guys that were younger because the list was that long.

There may be a legit list of reasons why McNabb won't win a SB here, but age isn't one of them.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

This is why the NFL Network might just have stumbled onto the best idea of all time. When the Bengals and Jets play on Thanksgiving night, 15 players and coaches will be miked up


Even with all of that, the game will make for putrid viewing.

The bengals are about as interesting to watch as midget porn.

One day, some smart college type is going to have to sit down a explain why Carson Palmer disappoints at this point in his career.

The bengals should trade him to, say AZ, and start all over IMO.

My viewing time will go to Friday's Auburn v. Alabama as the Thanksgiving pro football contests generally suck.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

I think the NFC is better than the AFC this year.

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 24, 2010 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Why are the Thanksgiving games always really bad?

And why do the Lions have to have a Thanksgiving game?

Do they have some kind of lifetime contract?

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 24, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

By the way, Skins/Titans game replayed on NFLN tonight at 8...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

PA, if they did I missed it, but I know I have watched many a game with the tv muted.

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:31 AM

Holy smokes...sure was a while back...from Wiki...

"NBC made history in the 1980s with an announcerless telecast (a one-shot experiment credited to Don Ohlmeyer, between the Jets and Dolphins in Miami on December 20, 1980 known as the "silent game").

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Re: DT##

Since he no longer has an NFL jersey, I can't assign him an actual number.

Thanksgiving Day surprise - Skins re-engage DT in talks to sign him back to the team. When DT was first released there were inklings that Shanny might be willing to re-sign him if he cleared waivers.

Skins bring him back on a minimum contract. DT wakes up and realizes no one in the NFL is willing to pay a rap-video model who moonlights as an NFL receiver, so he clears out his schedule and packs away his make-up kit and reinvests himself in football.

Since he knows the playbook (at least parts of it) we can finally say "bye" to Roydell Williams and/or Joey Galloway and reincarnate DT as a minimum contract project, instead of a 2nd-round diva.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 9:42 AM | Report abuse

By the way, Skins/Titans game replayed on NFLN tonight at 8...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 9:40 AM

Cool...thanks Brown!

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Thanksgiving Day surprise - Skins re-engage DT in talks to sign him back to the team. When DT was first released there were inklings that Shanny might be willing to re-sign him if he cleared waivers.

Skins bring him back on a minimum contract. DT wakes up and realizes no one in the NFL is willing to pay a rap-video model who moonlights as an NFL receiver, so he clears out his schedule and packs away his make-up kit and reinvests himself in football.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 9:42 AM

At the very least, DT could make some contributions on special teams. May not be a bad move considering those ranks have been taking a hit lately.

Posted by: TWISI | November 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

but age isn't one of them.


Age isn't an issue?

Obviously, you don't see things as I do.

Imagine the NFC/AFC two-three years from now.

The quarterbacks listed will all be in the prime or heading there:

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

Tom Brady

Ben Roethlisberger

Drew Brees

Mark Sanchez

Kyle Orton

Jay Cutler

Matt Cassel

Mike Vick

Eli Manning


Not a one will be a redskin starter as we'll either still be trying to win with a 37 year old McNabb or lamenting that we should've drafted young at the quarterback position in the event of his eventual decline.

We should think ahead and take a hard, serious look at the 6-7 very good young quarterbacks who will be in the upcoming draft--the Locker kid, for instance, looks like a perfect for what the Shanahans like to do.

Again: we might find ourselves mis-matched with an older quarterback in decline surrounded by a ready to got, explosive offense.

The Vikings are there now.

And that's not where I'd want to see this franchise later.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 9:54 AM | Report abuse

HaHa, nice memory there PA. I don't remember that game, but then again my memory is not what it once was.

Age and less brain cells...

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Why are the Thanksgiving games always really bad?

And why do the Lions have to have a Thanksgiving game?

Do they have some kind of lifetime contract?

Posted by: iH8dallas | November 24, 2010 9:40 AM

On Riggo's show yesterday they said Dallas got the game to help them gain interest when they entered the league. Forgot what they said about Detroit...think it had something to do with the Lions already having the game back in the 50's...and it stuck.

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

This is why the NFL Network might just have stumbled onto the best idea of all time. When the Bengals and Jets play on Thanksgiving night, 15 players and coaches will be miked up


Even with all of that, the game will make for putrid viewing.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 9:36 AM

Watching a football game two days after it was played is the most interesting idea of all times? It sounds to me more like a way of packaging stale bread with green mold on it.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of statistical analysis --

With six games left to play in the regular season, CP26 still needs something like 650 yards to surpass John Riggins and become the Redskins all-time leading rusher. So he needs to average more than hundred yards per game for the remainder of the season if he wants to take the record.

Playing for the first time in six weeks last weekend in Tennessee, CP26 touched the ball six times and picked up 48 yards, before heading to the sidelines again to say that he had re-aggravated an earlier injury, and would be unable to carry on.

What is the WPEPA (Will Portis Ever Play Again?) that the Dude takes the career rushing lead before the current season is over -- the guaranteed money in his contract goes away -- and he becomes much more expensive to keep on the roster into the next season and beyond?

Am thinking the odds are negligible at best. And given his current marginal value and continuing propensity to suffer through some pretty tough injuries, how soon should the team IR him?

Posted by: Vic1 | November 24, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

We should think ahead and take a hard, serious look at the 6-7 very good young quarterbacks who will be in the upcoming draft--the Locker kid, for instance, looks like a perfect for what the Shanahans like to do.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 9:54 AM

IMO KS will want a QB that has good timing and accuracy on intermediate and deep balls. The QB will have to be able to extend plays as well. Not sure which of those 6-7 youngs QBs you mentioned fit that bill, but that's who I'd put my $$ down.

Posted by: TWISI | November 24, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Since he knows the playbook (at least parts of it) we can finally say "bye" to Roydell Williams and/or Joey Galloway and reincarnate DT as a minimum contract project, instead of a 2nd-round diva.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 9:42 AM |

So your theory is that the 'Skins released him because his salary was too high? hahahahaha

They released him because he wasn't as good as Roydell Williams and/or Joey Galloway. He couldn't get on the field against them. His time in Carolina as a game day inactive hasn't changed that.

Come on. These coaches are trying to win five games to make the playoffs. If DT were part of the solution -- and not part of the problem -- they never would have released him in the first place.

More likely Thanksgiving surprise is that your turkey stuffs you instead of you stuffing it.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

I have a feeling that today we will hear the Redskins are sad to report they have put Clinton Portis on season ending injured reserve

NFLN is reporting this morning that the injury appears to just be swelling and that Portis hopes to play Sunday vs the Vikes. I think it's a mistake but......

Posted by: wireman65 | November 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse

Like it or not, we have to root for the Cows? Yep, Dallas must win, Atlanta must win, Jacksonville must win, Baltimore must win, Chicago must win, and Minnesota must loose. Oh! If can't stomach rooting for the Cows to win, then root for them not to loose. HTTR

Posted by: abxinc | November 24, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

twisi

The QB will have to be able to extend plays as well. Not sure which of those 6-7 youngs QBs you mentioned fit that bill, but that's who I'd put my $$ down.


Of course, there are positives and negatives to anyone who might be drafted.

But if the idea is the draft a college quarterback who has had 2-3 starting years in an NFL-lite system, the following guys might be worth a serious look:

Andrew Luck

Jake Locker

Kellen Moore (junior)

Rick Stanzi

Ryan Mallett


The BEST?: Mallett has a big arm, Locker foot speed, Luck polish, and Moore is just an excellent thrower (he might be the nation's best college quarteback, stats-wise).

Guys like Garcia, Newton, Ponder are also interesting choices.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

pfunk, pass on DT...been there, done that. I mean, really dude...let's kick the tires on Taylor Jacobs while we're at it...

Moe, you obviously have goo-goo eyes for other people's young QBs and I get that, I really do...but your whole platform is that we can't win a SB with an old QB...or that by the time we're able to compete for one, McNabb won't be able to carry his own weight. That assumption is patently false when you look at how many 33+ QBs have won SBs.

As you look at these young QBs that you love so much, you fail to realize that only Big Ben and Eli Gump have won or even been within shouting distance of SBs...the rest are still trying to feel their way around the pro game. I'm still trying to figure out why you lumped Brees and Brady in that list since they're McNabb's contemporaries.

Whatever the case, you gotta stop comparing the Redskins and Vikings on this...the two situations couldn't be more different. Plus, you're REALLY seeing a parallel between 33 year-old McNabb with nothing around him with 41 year-old Favre with the cupboard full? That dude even at his best rolls the dice and plays riverboat gambler every time he drops back to pass. McNabb has an historic record of protecting the football.

C'mon Moe...be real, dude.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse

"We should think ahead and take a hard, serious look at the 6-7 very good young quarterbacks who will be in the upcoming draft"
__________

Moe, I agree and I really think the Redskins will do this, if not this year then next. Just because they keep DM5 around does not mean they won't be out looking for his replacement. In fact, if you look at that contract they gave #5, you would have to figure he is unlikely to be a Redskin after 2012, and maybe even 2011. That tells me they will make finding the next starting QB a priority sooner rather than later.

Posted by: manlius1 | November 24, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Yep, Dallas must win, Atlanta must win, Jacksonville must win, Baltimore must win, Chicago must win, and Minnesota must loose. Oh! If can't stomach rooting for the Cows to win, then root for them not to loose. HTTR

Posted by: abxinc | November 24, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

To me it'll will be easier to catch Chicago than Green Bay or Philly. Bears have to loose.

Posted by: TWISI | November 24, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"NBC made history in the 1980s with an announcerless telecast (a one-shot experiment credited to Don Ohlmeyer, between the Jets and Dolphins in Miami on December 20, 1980 known as the "silent game").

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

RI should try posting a textless entry, it will probably be just as good as the ones with actual words.

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

That assumption is patently false when you look at how many 33+ QBs have won SBs.

You are aware that those 30+ SB winning quarterbacks you mention all came to ready made or solid teams.

I don't think that's the case with #5.

He's on a team that has to rebuild it's line and add playmakers on the edges.

Thrown together situations like that rarely satisfy in the modern NFL.

I'd like to build towards the future with youth, is all, I mean, that's why there's a draft in the 1st place.

And eventaully, the redskins will be in the draft market for a young signal caller, your claims notwithstanding.

I just want the team to get younger, more athletic, and dynamic is all.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 10:25 AM | Report abuse

HaHa, nice memory there PA. I don't remember that game, but then again my memory is not what it once was.

Age and less brain cells...

Posted by: kerzon417 | November 24, 2010 9:55 AM

Well I still have a knack for hanging onto useless information haha...but thought that game was 10 or 15 years ago...not 30!

Posted by: PlayAction | November 24, 2010 10:27 AM | Report abuse

RI should try posting a textless entry, it will probably be just as good as the ones with actual words.

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 10:24 AM

So the monk wants to apply the Quaker model of silent worship to the world of journalism? Perhaps the good Brother should set an example -- a week of textless posts? We'll let you know which is better, Brother.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

RI should try posting a textless entry, it will probably be just as good as the ones with actual words.

I got this:

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________and like I was saying just the other day, but no one, no one, except frak and pabrain, acknowledged the genuis of what I was saying....

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Thanksgiving Day surprise - Skins re-engage DT in talks to sign him back to the team. When DT was first released there were inklings that Shanny might be willing to re-sign him if he cleared waivers.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 9:42 AM
------------------------------------------
This is precisely why people shouldn't smoke crack. Pretty soon, you'll be lobbying for a Redskins roster that includes Leigh Torrence, Marko Mitchell, Marcus Mason and LaVar Arrington coming out of retirement... Back away from the crack pipe...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 24, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse

I just want the team to get younger, more athletic, and dynamic is all.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 10:25 AM


100% agree. My point is we can do so even if our QB isn't one of the youngins.

I mean, the Eagles looked pretty good with McNabb at the helm last year even though the team around him was younger. If a situation like that is the goal, I don't see why we can't do the same thing the Saints did last year or the Broncos did in the late 90s. The Colts and Pats have QBs that are McNabb's age and I don't see anyone ready to throw those guys overboard because they're over 30 years old...

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

off topic, but, can anyone give me the link to that angry cowboy fan and his youtube rant after the skins game? remember the guys who was yelling and screaming about how jerry jones had ruined the cowboys and all. that was so funny.

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 24, 2010 10:37 AM | Report abuse

RI should try posting a textless entry, it will probably be just as good as the ones with actual words.

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 10:24 AM

So the monk wants to apply the Quaker model of silent worship to the world of journalism? Perhaps the good Brother should set an example -- a week of textless posts? We'll let you know which is better, Brother.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Good suggestion, but why deprive all my NERD fans of my witty schtick?

I don't suggest you do the same and go textless for a week, how will the post ever run without you???? Well, I imagine it would be like a well-oiled machine! hahaha

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Happy Thanksgiving, y'all..I'm out early today:

Indian: You palefaces feast at a table where my people are not allowed to eat.

Pilgrim: We may not let you eat with us.

But you're more than welcome to clean up whatever mess we make.

Posted by: gimmesummoe | November 24, 2010 10:40 AM | Report abuse

So your theory is that the 'Skins released him because his salary was too high? hahahahaha

They released him because he wasn't as good as Roydell Williams and/or Joey Galloway. He couldn't get on the field against them. His time in Carolina as a game day inactive hasn't changed that.

Come on. These coaches are trying to win five games to make the playoffs. If DT were part of the solution -- and not part of the problem -- they never would have released him in the first place.

More likely Thanksgiving surprise is that your turkey stuffs you instead of you stuffing it.

Posted by: beep-beep | November 24, 2010 10:05 AM | Report abuse


True to form, beep invents a statement/theory, puts it in someone else's mouth and then roundly criticizes it.

Not sure why he seeks the interaction of other people on the blog when it seems like he could have a hearty round of debates with himself.

Anyhow, if they thought he had nothing as a player project, then why did he make it out of camp and hang around at all on the roster?

The theory is that DT got cut b/c his production-to-diva attitude ratio was so out of whack that the heavy hand of Darth Shanny came crashing down. So, with Galloway and Roydell Williams continuing to not contribute on a consistent basis, if a repentant DT comes back around perhaps there is niche for him toward the bottom of our incredibly unimpressive WR depth chart if he's willing to play for stale crusts.

...and I don't know why it would surprise you that I get stuffed with turkey on Thanksgiving...I thought that's how it worked for everyone...


Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: fat_back | November 24, 2010 10:47 AM | Report abuse

This is precisely why people shouldn't smoke crack. Pretty soon, you'll be lobbying for a Redskins roster that includes Leigh Torrence, Marko Mitchell, Marcus Mason and LaVar Arrington coming out of retirement... Back away from the crack pipe...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | November 24, 2010 10:32 AM | Report abuse


This is precisely why people should take reading comprehension exercises seriously in school.

Learn the difference between someone theorizing a surprising turn of events versus lobbying for an event.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Not sure why he seeks the interaction of other people on the blog when it seems like he could have a hearty round of debates with himself.

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 10:44 AM | Report abuse

He's the blog bully, trying to control it and tell people what to do.

He tells people to ITA about the trolls, and TRIES to do it himself but eventually speaks when he feels someone is taking attention away from him. Oh yeah, wasn't ITA on your list of overused things done on here beep? Try taking your own advice, cause p1funk called it, you probably do talk to yourself!!!

Posted by: monk811 | November 24, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

actually, my memory was faulty. it wasn't after the redskins game. this is the video i was thinking of:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thedallascowboyshow#p/u/16/yBt2JFdEW5w

so funny....

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 24, 2010 10:51 AM | Report abuse

pfunk, pass on DT...been there, done that. I mean, really dude...let's kick the tires on Taylor Jacobs while we're at it...


Posted by: brownwood26 | November 24, 2010 10:17 AM | Report abuse


Is Jacobs staying in shape?

I say bring him in for a run.

If we're working out Jamarcus Russel, what's the difference.

Frankly, at this point I might like Taylor jacobs better than Galloway/Williams...I mean, could he produce much less?

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 10:52 AM | Report abuse

thanks at_back. same guy... that's a pretty funny one too!

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 24, 2010 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Frankly, at this point I might like Taylor jacobs better than Galloway/Williams...I mean, could he produce much less?

Posted by: p1funk | November 24, 2010 10:52 AM
---------------
charley taylor, maybe... :-)

ah charly taylor. my first 'skins jersey. i was at the game when he caught his then-record-setting pass.

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 24, 2010 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Let's move along to the next post.....

Posted by: TWISI | November 24, 2010 11:00 AM | Report abuse

p1funk, like someone else said yesterday...DT hasn't hit bottom yet like Marko has. If he hasn't woken up yet, maybe he will when het gets cut from the CFL. But who knows, it's not impossible.

I still hate to think of all that physical ability going to waste...

Posted by: RomoLongballs | November 24, 2010 11:01 AM | Report abuse

@Walter...You got to love it. That's funny.

Posted by: fat_back | November 24, 2010 11:09 AM | Report abuse

RI should try posting a textless entry, it will probably be just as good as the ones with actual words

For all intents and puposes they just did.

Posted by: wireman65 | November 24, 2010 11:17 AM | Report abuse

JR saying on Twitter that CP26 has been put on IR

Posted by: manlius1 | November 24, 2010 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Moe, on your QB list, Tom Brady is 33 and Drew Brees is 31, so they are already near Donovan McNabb age. So, I wouldn't consider them quarterbacks heading into or nearing their prime like the rest you listed.

Posted by: dbailey211 | November 24, 2010 12:25 PM | Report abuse

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