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Steelers Find This Plot Twist Stinks

Coach Grinch! Picture those poor Pittsburgh Steelers, all excited about the prospect of getting a morning off from two-a-days and being taken to the movies, just like that nice Mr. Cowher had always done during training camp.

So when Mike Tomlin ordered the buses to line up at Saint Vincent College in Latrobe, Pa., they could probably smell the popcorn -- and then they found out they'd been tricked and had to go to work.

"Just a little mental warfare," Tomlin said, according to the Associated Press. "Sometimes people need to be horribly disappointed and then asked to perform. And they did pretty well."

"Sometimes people need to be horribly disappointed and then asked to perform." Jeez. Tomlin, the AP reported, is expected to make it up to his starters by restricting their playing time to only about a quarter against the Redskins.

Like that can make up for not seeing "G.I. Joe" together.

Favre Advises Campbell

Jason Campbell talked about running into fellow Mississipian Brett Favre back home. According to Dan Steinberg, it turns out that, in addition to the advice Favre dispensed (something about the importance of decisiveness), Campbell's father was Favre's daughter's substitute teacher.

Daniels Goes into Details

Phillip Daniels tells Steinberg about having his knee drained.

By Cindy Boren  |  August 20, 2009; 3:24 PM ET
 
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Next: Players Welcome End of Camp

Comments

Pretty interesting read regarding Campbell:

http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2009/08/20/campbell-haters-beware/

Here's a snapshot:

"Here’s what most fans don’t know about last season (again, courtesy of Football Outsiders Almanac):

1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008.

2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops.

3. Running back Clinton Portis only had six drops. Compared to Moss and Randle El that seems okay, but he was actually third in the league in percentage of dropped passes (17 percent).

4. Campbell was also in the top 10 in the NFL last season in passes defended with 50 – meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play.

5. Campbell was sixth best in the league in percentage of overthrown passes. He overthrew his wideouts 18 times, which works out to 3.6 percent. Conversely, Derek Anderson of the Browns overthrew his receivers a league-worst nine percent of the time.

6. Campbell was second best in the NFL in underthrown passes (6.4 percent), trailing only Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans (4.9 percent). It should also be noted that Campbell attempted 126 more passes than the injury-prone Schaub. Oakland’s JaMarcus Russell led the league in underthrown passes (16.5 percent).

7. Campbell was fifth in the NFL in QB hits with 47, and tied for third in quarterback knockdowns with 88. In fact, Campbell got knocked down more than 16 percent of the time he dropped back to pass, which was eighth most in the league.

8. In spite of all of this, Campbell was eighth in the NFL in quarterback accuracy at 85.7. This statistic factors in passes that are not thrown ahead or behind, overthrown or underthrown or out of bounds."

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

3th

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | August 20, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I'm not 1st but I maybe 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or 10. Who freakin cares ?

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?


Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

psp23

You continue to impress.

Great post.

It indicates that if Moss and El and others hold on to the ball, the offense improves.

Also, they gotta get them jump balls while Campbell must take the chance and try 'fitting' the ball into space.

Finally, maybe Portis should be 'flexed' and the receiver of more passes than he has been.

Again: great post.

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 20, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Really, enough dude. At this point, even if I had Marty's e-mail address, you'd be the last person I'd give it to.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | August 20, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Best 60s-70s R/B band

pick'em


Earth, Wind and Fire
P-Funk
James Brown and the Fabolous Flames
The Average White Band
Cameo
Brick
Con-Funk-Shun
Tower of Power
Rick James (yes: I know he's not a band)
Kool and the Gang
Heatwave
The Jacksons
Chic (disco, I know)
Lakeside
L.T.D.


Moe's Fav: Maurice White, Verdine White, the Phoenix Horns of Earth, Wind, and Fire.


Posted by: MistaMoe | August 20, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse


Guess my favorite.

Posted by: p1funk | August 20, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

On the link to Steinbog and Daniel's knee ... its kind of gooey and gross. Presented with the opportunity and a few moments to engage one of the team's (league's) most solid run-stuffing DEs, Steinbog asks Daniels about what the fluid drained from his knee looked like.

Posted by: dcsween | August 20, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

So, what you're implying is that you agree with Danny and Vinny. That's very interesting. So, at 3:20 p est t_e admits he thinks Danny and Vinny are right about Jason Campbell NOT being the guy.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | August 20, 2009 3:40 PM

Do you understand the difference between "imply" and "infer"? You used the wrong one. I didn't imply. You inferred -- incorrectly.

I've always been agnostic on whether JC is "the guy." And I don't want to take advantage of Sanchez success to say "see, I told you so."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Really, enough dude. At this point, even if I had Marty's e-mail address, you'd be the last person I'd give it to.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | August 20, 2009 3:55 PM


Why not ?


Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I just got an email from Schottenheimer asking me not to pass it along to anyone. He's worried about some pool cleaning, head coach-hating stalker.

Posted by: dcsween | August 20, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

interesting stuff psps. I know its kind of strange sematics, but is a sack also a 'hit' and a 'knockdown'? And is there a difference between a pressure and a hit?

The drops surprise me ... I knew we weren't great, but I didn't think we were that bad.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | August 20, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Eleventy Teenth!

Posted by: DikShuttle | August 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008.

2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops.
====================================

I call BS on this. O saw every snap last year. It is possible atleat half of those dropped passes were to due to inaccuracy on the QB and the receiver working his SJK off to get his finger tips on the ball. And because the WR touched it, they may call it a dropped pass.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

To be fair, the article does attempt to spin everything in an extremely positive light, but a lot of those stats are very telling.

This is another nugget linked in that, from a recent Sports Illustrated article, which helps explain the very low YPA Campbell had:

"Late in the year I could not call a slow-developing play downfield because I knew we couldn't protect Jason," Zorn says. "That makes it pretty tough on a quarterback. But what happened in the off-season are things you sometime can't expect. Who knew Jay Cutler would be available? Because Jason hasn't grown into the ultimate franchise quarterback yet, we pursued [Cutler]—and we weren't the only ones."

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

psp, it's always someone else's fault when it comes to JC huh? I would love to see what that book shows about Big Ben or Cassell.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | August 20, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I just got an email from Schottenheimer asking me not to pass it along to anyone. He's worried about some pool cleaning, head coach-hating stalker.

Posted by: dcsween | August 20, 2009 3:59 PM

So you have Marty S. email ADD !

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Best Random line ever:
Campbell's father was Favre's daughter's substitute teacher.


this makes JC a pro-bowl lock

Posted by: 428Maverick | August 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I understand that FireJimZorn has a weird shrine to Marty Schottenheimer in his bedroom complete with pictures and burning candles. I also understand that he goes into a trance while chanting "If we can't have Marty, then no one will!" And I also have heard that even though FireJimZorn has 20/20 vision, he still wears a pair of Marty style glasses.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | August 20, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

psps I certainly remember wondering why the sjk Santana was dropping all those balls. I guess those stats don't surprise me.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | August 20, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

4. Campbell was also in the top 10 in the NFL last season in passes defended with 50 – meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play.

Doesnt this mean any ball? Not just jump balls. Any ball the defender got his hands on, that could mean under thrown balls, balls thrown behind receiver, etc.

I could be wrong, but that is what I thought it meant. if so, #4 is misleading.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | August 20, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Best Random line ever:
Campbell's father was Favre's daughter's substitute teacher.


this makes JC a pro-bowl lock

Posted by: 428Maverick | August 20, 2009 4:03 PM |

To the Hall!!!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | August 20, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

LH, no it's not always someone else's fault.

But it's also not always Campbell's fault, as so many on here loooove to insinuate.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

psps, I thought you weren't big on pulling stats... but if makes your point, it's okay, right?

Nothing new about Moss and Randle El dropping passes. They had me saying "WTF?" too many times last year with that bs.

I remember one game where Randle El dropped like three passes in a row!

I think most people think Campbell can do well. However, even with all the cool stats to back up that Campbell shouldn't shoulder all the blame, he'll probably never find success here though due to the way thisorganization is ran.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 20, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

3. Running back Clinton Portis only had six drops. Compared to Moss and Randle El that seems okay, but he was actually third in the league in percentage of dropped passes (17 percent).
====================

again, bs FOR THE SAME REASON....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 20, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Here’s what most fans don’t know about last season (again, courtesy of Football Outsiders Almanac):

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 3:48 PM

What is a "Football Outsider"? Someone who only watches baseball? A random wife who asks "Did he kick a touchdown yet?" A German au pair who goes to poetry readings during the game? A random troll who asks for MARTY S. EMAIL ADD?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

"Campbell's father was Favre's daughter's substitute teacher."

So what does that makes us?

-ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Posted by: Predator48 | August 20, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

5. Campbell was sixth best in the league in percentage of overthrown passes. He overthrew his wideouts 18 times, which works out to 3.6 percent. Conversely, Derek Anderson of the Browns overthrew his receivers a league-worst nine percent of the time.
=====================================

MAJOR LIE.....This author is not credible....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 20, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

4. Campbell was also in the top 10 in the NFL last season in passes defended with 50 – meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play.

Doesnt this mean any ball? Not just jump balls. Any ball the defender got his hands on, that could mean under thrown balls, balls thrown behind receiver, etc.

I could be wrong, but that is what I thought it meant. if so, #4 is misleading.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000

-----------

This was the one I was skeptical about as well. He tried to pin it all on jump balls, which obviously isn't the case.

But it also shows that Campbell didn't just settle for the 'easy' pass as many of his detractors claim.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

4th, though Portis has many strengths, receiving is not one of them. His timing on dropping passes (I remember plenty of the) are about as momentum killing as Betts' fumbles. Its OK to drop a pass, but not on third down when you are already over the first down marker.

Posted by: dcsween | August 20, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I understand that FireJimZorn has a weird shrine to Marty Schottenheimer in his bedroom complete with pictures and burning candles. I also understand that he goes into a trance while chanting "If we can't have Marty, then no one will!" And I also have heard that even though FireJimZorn has 20/20 vision, he still wears a pair of Marty style glasses.

Posted by: RedskinJim1 | August 20, 2009 4:04 PM

Why must you reply with so much anger ?


Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Football Outsiders stats=power rankings

Posted by: Kenbeatrizz | August 20, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

"psps, I thought you weren't big on pulling stats..."

No, I'm not big on pulling a simple snapshot of generic stats (like just TDs/INTs for QBs, or just INTs for CBs, etc.).

I am big on getting detailed stats to help identify where the issues are generated from, and where specific weaknesses occur.

There's a difference.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

This was the one I was skeptical about as well. He tried to pin it all on jump balls, which obviously isn't the case.

But it also shows that Campbell didn't just settle for the 'easy' pass as many of his detractors claim.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

He might have pulled most of it from this almanac, but the line that states:
"meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play."

That last line is his interpretation on what a defended pass is, so it is hard for me to take some of these seriously. A pass defended doesnt mean just a jump ball that the Redskins didnt win.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | August 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

You're right 4th, Football Outsiders is lying. Clearly Campbell's agent fabricated an entire almanac with the hopes of getting his client paid.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

am big on getting detailed stats to help identify where the issues are generated from, and where specific weaknesses occur.

There's a difference.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:15 PM

What detail? You only have what this guy chose to share. Excuse me if I look askance at a list of selected stats culled by a JC stan who goes by homermcfanboy.


Posted by: learnedhand1 | August 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"Football Outsiders stats=power rankings"


Indeed! They even admit that they're biased. I too call bulls***!

psps, since you're the official "stat boy" of the blog, can you find something more substantial, or credible. Like what was Campbell's TD/INT ratio after a fan at FedEx took a sip of beer. Or how many times the 'skins receivers dropped a pass when the wind was blowing NNE into the stadium.

G-damn, man. Anything to back up your pro-Campbell argument, huh?

Posted by: RedDMV | August 20, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

I think most people think Campbell can do well. However, even with all the cool stats to back up that Campbell shouldn't shoulder all the blame, he'll probably never find success here though due to the way thisorganization is ran.

Posted by: RedDMV
________________________

I think Campbell can do "well enough" (not sure about "well") with a competent to above average O-line (which we don't have, probably... we'll see) and a great D. But I'd rather have much better than well enough. So for me it's... # 1 build the O-line, # 2 try to upgrade at QB.

Posted by: chasgiffen | August 20, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

gatorskinz, trust me, I really don't care what the author of the article interpreted. He really doesn't concern me. The only reason I found the article interesting was for the statistics. I already acknowledged that the author was clearly spinning everything in an overly positive light.

But the stats themselves are very interesting.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

-ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Posted by: Predator48
____________________________

As in "War! Huh! What is it good for?"

Posted by: chasgiffen | August 20, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 20, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I think Campbell can do "well enough" (not sure about "well") with a competent to above average O-line (which we don't have, probably... we'll see) and a great D. But I'd rather have much better than well enough. So for me it's... # 1 build the O-line, # 2 try to upgrade at QB.

Posted by: chasgiffen

Funny -- I'm in total agreement on you with the assessment of Campbell ... he can do well with an average OL. I see Campbell peaking as around a top 10-ish QB. And in agreement that the OL is the priority.

And in disagreement about whether to pursue another QB. Heck, if we have a 10th ranked QB, a top defense, solid OL and a top RB, we're in the hunt for the big prize.

Of course, by the time this OL gets upgraded, Campbell might be retiring anyway ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | August 20, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

According to this, Santana Moss was 7th in dropped passes last year and ARE does not appear on the list.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

Who are these Football Outsiders?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | August 20, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

4th, though Portis has many strengths, receiving is not one of them. His timing on dropping passes (I remember plenty of the) are about as momentum killing as Betts' fumbles. Its OK to drop a pass, but not on third down when you are already over the first down marker.

Posted by: dcsween | August 20, 2009 4:14 PM

I'll take that one back, but will not take the one back about Santana......

PSP - Don't know enough about the 'outsiders'. But this seems like the Hanging Chad issue....

Posted by: 4thFloor | August 20, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

See what happens when you don't keep you're 9 double M in your sweats.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | August 20, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

On those dropped passes stats, I wonder how the %'s compare between RB's and all other receivers, I'd expect it to be much higher (more dropped) than for WR's & TE's...

Posted by: chasgiffen | August 20, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

"G-damn, man. Anything to back up your pro-Campbell argument, huh?

Posted by: RedDMV"

It's not my fault that the stats actually do back it up.

Hey, if you provide me actual evidence that points to WHERE Campbell is weak, or WHY he is weak in a certain area, I will gladly take a honest listen. Unfortunately, claiming that Football Outsiders is lying to me, or claiming that Campbell doesn't have "it", or proclaiming that Sports-Guru has been a genius all along doesn't qualify for me.

If you've got something to support your argument, go ahead and post it. I'm not blocking your computer.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

Ahem - OK - everyone else has posted their opinion on Campbell - so being Captain Obvious, here goes.

1. Campbell has shown that he has the physical tools to be an above average QB in the NFL. He can throw a fairly accurate ball, and if allowed, can gain yards on the ground.
2. While he has had to work in several different systems, one constant remains. In pressure situations, he appears tentative and will rarely throw a pass when his receiver has close coverage. The natural QB should demonstrate his desire to be the man who makes the play; Campbell has not done this to date. (Digression - love or hate Jay Schroeder, after Joe T got hurt he was laughing his ass off, because everyone was freaking out on the sidelines - "What will we do w/o Joe" - Schroeder said, I got this - and threw a 40 Yard pass to Monk on his second play) Swagger is what Campbell lacks.
3. All that being said, his statistical improvement year over year, while relatively meaningless, means that he deserves one more shot at trying to show that he is the man. Maybe 8 games, maybe more, but one more shot. And it should be the last chance.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | August 20, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

8. In spite of all of this, Campbell was eighth in the NFL in quarterback accuracy at 85.7. This statistic factors in passes that are not thrown ahead or behind, overthrown or underthrown or out of bounds."
Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 3:47 PM

Not to pile on, but
I’m not sure I understand this, unless it should read that This statistic factors in passes that are not INTENTIONALLY thrown ahead or behind, overthrown or underthrown or out of bounds."…..
Because a true measure of accuracy would indeed include passes that were thrown off target, unless done so intentionally….
Also hope that buys like MKelly and MMitchell will help in the “jump ball” dept……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | August 20, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"What detail? You only have what this guy chose to share."

I have what this guy chose to share plus all the season situational splits I got from espn.com, which I posted earlier this offseason for both his strengths and his weaknesses. I don't know why you assume I'm selectively blinding myself to his stats, but I pretty comprehensively posted his weak spots (from what I could find) and generated my opinion based on the entire body of work, not just what I wanted to see.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

IGNORE THIS IDIOT AND DON'T LEAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT HIM! HE IS ONLY SEEKING ATTENTION! HE IS A STUPID KID WHO HAS NO LIFE!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | August 20, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

But the stats themselves are very interesting.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

That we can agree on, especially the dropped balls. I knew we dropped alot, I didnt realize that much.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | August 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

This is another nugget linked in that, from a recent Sports Illustrated article, which helps explain the very low YPA Campbell had:

"Late in the year I could not call a slow-developing play downfield because I knew we couldn't protect Jason," Zorn says. "That makes it pretty tough on a quarterback. But what happened in the off-season are things you sometime can't expect. Who knew Jay Cutler would be available? Because Jason hasn't grown into the ultimate franchise quarterback yet, we pursued [Cutler]—and we weren't the only ones."

Posted by: psps23


Sounds like Zorn is pointing out the suspect offensive line AND the fact that Campbell isn't this untapped phenom on the brink of greatness quarterback, like so many would love to insinuate.

If anyone says it's all on Campbell they're crazy, but if you think that Campbell has been treated unfairly and that he has no issues with the way he quarterbacks then you're mistaken.

I've seen Todd Collins more decisive in the pocket than Campbell. If I'm wrong, tell me (which I KNOW that you will).

Campbell is who is, yeah he may have room for improvement, but this is, what, his fourth season?

Stop it with the Campbell excuses. If this was his first or second year, I'd give him a pass.

The playbook argument is becoming old as well. How many QBs have went to a new team, learned the playbook and had success? True Campbell isn't Favre, but Favre was able to do it last year. This year 'skins fans should look out for Cutler and Cassel -- first year in a new offense for them as well. If they bomb then the "Ohhh so many offenses to learn for Campbell" argument has leverage. If they do well, and lead their teams to the playoffs, then that argument never had legs to begin with.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

"Just a little mental warfare," Tomlin said, according to the Associated Press. "Sometimes people need to be horribly disappointed and then asked to perform. And they did pretty well."

By Cindy Boren | August 20, 2009; 3:24 PM ET

When you interview a guy to be your head coach, do you ask him "What kind of mental warfare will you use to toughen up the troops?"

And his line about "horribly disappointed and then perform." We're talking about going to a movie? Try getting a team ready to play after Sean Taylor was murdered. Does a missed movie prepare you for that? And, by God, what makes Tomlin that that he's as capable as Joe Gibbs and his staff were?

You prepare all your life to be "horribly disappointed and then perform," and it isn't by not going to a movie.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

From RI:

"The Redskins' first-team offense could play early into the second quarter or until Coach Jim Zorn sees enough "production" Saturday night against the Pittsburgh Steelers at FedEx Field."

"Tomlin, the AP reported, is expected to make it up to his starters by restricting their playing time to only about a quarter against the Redskins."

So riddle me this. The Steelers starters play only a quarter. The Skins O shows no "production" while the Steelers starting D is in the game. So Z keeps his O starters in the game past one quarter against the Steelers D subs just so he can see "production"? That makes a lot of sense.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | August 20, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Plaxico screwed himself badly. Ouch - 2 years. Stupidity has a steep price. If anything, it makes M. Vick look like he hired better lawyers....

Don't know why I find fjz's repetition so funny, but it is. Not sure why it ticks so many folks off. Would you settle for his son's e-mail address? I believe he is on FB.

These Campbell stats are encouraging. No doubt there were a ton of dropped passes last year. Great teams do not have receivers that drop a ton of passes. Coooley is the only sure pair of hands on the team, with Moss seeming to have better hands on deep passes than on the shorter ones.

I recall Gary Clark would often drop the first pass thrown his way, get unbelievably angry at himself on the sidelines, and then make almost every unbelievable catch that came his way through the rest of the game. His TD in Superbowl XXII was way low and behind him and he caught it leaning backwards while sliding on his knees. The Posse even made Jay Shroeder look good.

We still need an o-line, but I believe receivers (beyond Cooley, Moss and the FBs) are the second biggest concern. No one else has stepped up yet.

Posted by: HughGRection | August 20, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"Because a true measure of accuracy would indeed include passes that were thrown off target, unless done so intentionally…."

I agree with that. I can't comment on whether or not they took it into account, but generally speaking, the unintentional vs. intentional should only make a negligible difference (considering every QB was subject to the same interpretation).

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

IGNORE THIS IDIOT AND DON'T LEAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT HIM! HE IS ONLY SEEKING ATTENTION! HE IS A STUPID KID WHO HAS NO LIFE!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | August 20, 2009 4:42 PM |

You mean no comments except yours? And why is it bad if we throw him a little attention? It's like a charitable act that we can perform with very little effort. Or patting your dog while you're watching television.

He's needy and we're rich. It's the same as giving "spare change" to the guy on the corner when you're coming home from work.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

So Z keeps his O starters in the game past one quarter against the Steelers D subs just so he can see "production"? That makes a lot of sense.

Posted by: CottonEyeJoe | August 20, 2009 4:47 PM

Good preparation for facing a team with eight or ten injuries to their starting D? The only risk is that the O can't score on either the Steelers 2nd or 3rd D. In which case, Zorn would probably do Tomlin's not-going-to-the-movies stunt.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

psps, the "it" term has been long used when an athlete has what it takes to distinctively compete against other professionals in their sport.

Stop playing dumb. I know you know this stuff.

Does Campbell has what it takes to compete and do so distinctively? To date he has shown he is below average to average.

Nothing about 'average' stands out. I don't care what fancy little stats you pull off a "homerfanboy" website to back your argument.

I'll acknowledge the dropped passes. That constantly pissed me off last season.

Again, STATS do not always tell the entire story.

Posted by: RedDMV | August 20, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

He's needy and we're rich. It's the same as giving "spare change" to the guy on the corner when you're coming home from work.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT IS WORTH HAVING HIM ABUSING THE BLOG WHEN SERIOUS DISCUSSION IS WHAT WE SEEK. YOU ONLY ENCOURAGE MORE AND MORE!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | August 20, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

psps,

Interesting stats on Campbell.

How many game winning, 4th quarter drives has JC engineered?

A good QB is able to withstand adversity: untimely drops by his wideouts, sacks, hurries, false starts, etc...

A great QB wins games, under great duress, when it matters most.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | August 20, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

What does tell the entire story, Red?

Watching most of the games he plays every season and judging him entirely only what limited view of the game the cameras give you?

Obviously no one can know for sure how Campbell will do this season, but to dismiss statistical information as meaningless simply because it backs up the idea that JC isn't awful seems like a strange way to approach the situation.

You do know that "homermcfanboy" didn't invent or come up with those stats, right? They were gathered by a neutral, outside party and were in no way manipulated to make redskins players look better.

Why are you so against factoring statistics into an argument anyway?

Posted by: -swb | August 20, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Burress' prosecution and sentencing is a clear example of selective prosecution of a high profile offender. Perfectly constitutional under the 14th Amendment, but in my view, a real shame. I doubt that Morgenthau's office would have spent a moment on this victimless incident had it occurred in the absence of some other offense as this incident did and involved an unknown individual.

There are thousands of criminal statutes on the books. Prosecutors make decisions all day long about which ones to enforce and which ones to ignore. I think that what they did here was overly harsh and abusive. The violation could have been handled in a variety of other ways.

Posted by: rgj21 | August 20, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

How many game winning, 4th quarter drives has JC engineered?

A good QB is able to withstand adversity: untimely drops by his wideouts, sacks, hurries, false starts, etc...

A great QB wins games, under great duress, when it matters most.

Posted by: Chia_Pet

-----------

Prepare for more stats...

I can't give you an explicit number as I don't have it, but I can give you his situational statistics from last season:

In the 4th quarter of games that had equal or under to a +/- 7 point margin (either we were winning by 7 or less, or we were losing by 7 or less):

28 comp, 50 att, 380 yards, 56.0 %, 7.60 YPA, 67 long, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 2.0 sacks, 100.4 rating, 18 rushes, 53 yards, 2.9 YPA, 23 long, 1 TD.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

SERIOUS DISCUSSION IS WHAT WE SEEK. YOU ONLY ENCOURAGE MORE AND MORE!

Posted by: KurtShanaman | August 20, 2009 5:01 PM

Everybody's here for something, but we're not all here for the same things.

Personally, I'm only here for a few good laughs. (He's not funny -- but some of the take-offs are.) These things come and go on RI and they become part of the fabric.

Serious discussions? Maybe you, but they are boring to me. I can do that at work and get paid for it. I hate to do it for free.

And that "enouraging more" is what they say about street beggars. The more you give, the more beggars turn up. But, the beggars wouldn't exist without the donors. The beggars are paid to supply a service: the donors derive pleasure from giving.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

RESPECT THIS GUY AND PLEASE GIVE HIM MARTY S. EMAIL ADD. COMMENTS ABOUT HIM ARE FUNNY !

Posted by: KurtShanaman | August 20, 2009 4:42 PM


Thanks for the comment KurtShanaman great reply.


Does anyone know Marty S. email ADD ?
Does anyone know Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Stats can be twisted in any way to suit any point of view.

According to many economists, losing 250,000 jobs in the month of July is a sign that the recession is over.

File under "P," for perverse.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | August 20, 2009 5:16 PM | Report abuse

"the "it" term has been long used when an athlete has what it takes to distinctively compete against other professionals in their sport."

Yea, I know what this means, but I also think it's faaaaaar below what you seem to consider 'it' to be.

Once you've established you can do it, then that's it. You have the mysterious "it." After that, it's circumstance and progression. Campbell going on an 8 game streak where he completed 66 percent of his passes while throwing for 1,754 yards, with eight touchdowns and zero interceptions, a 100.5 passer rating, and a 6-2 record establishes that he can "distinctively compete against other professionals."

Ryan Leaf and Heath Shuler lacked "it." Jason Campbell does not.

Posted by: psps23 | August 20, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Beeps, peeps.

Posted by: chasgiffen | August 20, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: talent_evaluator | August 20, 2009 5:19 PM | Report abuse

psps,

Your persistence is admirable.

W-L: only stat that matters...

Posted by: Chia_Pet | August 20, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Thanks, psps, for the reprint from Football Outsiders. Those guys know their stuff.

That's what is tantalizing about the Skins -- there are so many correctable problems that fixing just half of them could tip several games in the right direction. On the other hand, they've got so many problem areas that with a bit of bad luck (say, injuries to key personnel), they could drop to the bottom of the fish tank.

I don't think you can say that about NY or Philly. Those teams should be good. Dallas is an unknown, like Washington. Possibly the most talented of the four, even without Owens, but also the least productive last year.

I keep going back to the FO study showing that the 'best team' (by reasonably objective measurable standards) wins the Super Bowl less than a third of the time. That's why I don't bother with predictions.

Posted by: Samson151 | August 20, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

psps23

"It's not my fault that the stats actually do back it up."

Numbers don't lie.

What will be interesting is how the FO reads the info you've posted--great info, I might add, as it's rocked all the chatta this afternoon.

On paper, Campbell looks like a slightly inaccurate but capable quarterback with smallish receivers who have an occasional problems with the dropsies.

But in the FO's eyes, he's not the game-winning, media star starter that defenses fear and the girls giggle after.

That final point is what matters to the FO.

And that's no lie.

Posted by: MistaMoe | August 20, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

psps23,
Thanks for the stats, but isn't there a little subjectivity into a stat like "dropped passes"? If a QB throws a ball twelve feet high and the receiver manages to leap up high enough to brush his fingers on it, does this constitute a dropped pass? What about low and behind, bouncing off his ankle? Also, this is number of drops. Moss may have dropped 12, but he caught 79. I could understand someone making noise about Moss if he only had 12 thrown his way and he dropped 12 (we'd probably be calling him Santana Rogers if that were the case).

Hey, I would agree Campbell is a more than adequate quarterback if given time to find his man. I think his percentages are a little skewed because he often takes the short safety valve stuff and doesn't gamble long as often as he should - or could. I don't think things are going to change a lot this season. If the o-line cannot block, JC is going to dump the ball off quickly, and for short gains. Hopefully his stats will improve with run-after-the-catch provided by bigger receivers like Kelly and Thomas. I guess that is the whole point of this worst case offense, er, I mean west coast offense.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | August 20, 2009 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Someone wake me when Jason Campbell has more playoff wins than Todd Collins...or for that matter ANY other QB on the Skins' roster.

Manipulate THAT stat...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | August 20, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

When it comes to Steelers fans showing up at FedEx, let's keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of them did not travel from Pittsburgh to DC for the game. Almost every young college grad from Pittsburgh, and I mean literally almost EVERY one, leaves Pittsburgh and moves to DC. I know. I am one of the unfortunate DC natives who has actually had to do the reverse migration for job and wife. Pittsburgh does not produce jobs and it is not an attractive place for young educated people like DC is. One other note about last year's game against the Steelers. It was on Monday night. I went to the game and the traffic from Alexandria to FedEx was satanic. The Skins fans who decided to pass on that game made a very rational decision. Monday nights in the DC area are not the best time to play football.

Posted by: NickFairfax | August 21, 2009 8:19 AM | Report abuse

"Football Outsiders stats=power rankings"


Indeed! They even admit that they're biased. I too call bulls***!

psps, since you're the official "stat boy" of the blog, can you find something more substantial, or credible. Like what was Campbell's TD/INT ratio after a fan at FedEx took a sip of beer. Or how many times the 'skins receivers dropped a pass when the wind was blowing NNE into the stadium.

G-damn, man. Anything to back up your pro-Campbell argument, huh?

Posted by: RedDMV | August 20, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Wow! I don't even know if he was arguing, but this appears to be the backup. Calm down, thank you for the info psps

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | August 21, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone have Marty S. email ADD ?

Posted by: FIREJIMZORN | August 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I hope the report abuse link works cause your abusing the hell out of our mental capacity to deal with you. Seriously your being ridiculous and annoying as hell. what have we done to you? No one has his "F"ing email address. Google it or something but please stop. Its tough enough to come up with something substantial to add to the blog for everyones interest. Believe it or not some people enjoy reading this blog, but what your doing is abusing the readers.

Posted by: 15600_sknfan | August 21, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

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