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A Tough Week in TCCLs

Another eventful week in Redskinsland. With the way the season has slipped away, it's hard to put a smiley face on this one.

87 TCCLs: Rock Cartwright. On a day when special teams largely imploded amid penalties and the Redskins let their season slip away, this dude came to play. He went all out and nearly scored a TD on a long kickoff return after Cincinnati had gone ahead 20-10 in the fourth quarter.

-15 TCCLs: Shoe Polishing. Santana Moss has conducted himself with class and always been team-first, not grousing or complaining about things other teammates might whine about. But his timing could not have been worse Sunday when he used his towel to go Ocho Cinco and celebrate a TD that merely cut a deficit to 17-7 against a one-win opponent. Field position matters, momentum matters, and that penalty cost his team. They can't act cocky at this point.

-73 TCCLs: First Quarter Fumbles. First Clinton Portis and then Chris Cooley. This offense isn't good enough or confident enough right now to overcome those kinds of mistakes, especially at the start of a game. It's a killer.

-91,000 TCCLs: Tickets Let me get this straight. The Redskins charge their fans a ton for tickets and parking and everything else. Then Larry Michael goes on TV and lectures fans about selling tickets for profit to opponents' fans while, at the same time, the owner profits from an arrangement to resell tickets on Stubhub? In this economy, people have to do whatever they can to hold onto those season tickets. Rather than sending Michael out to lecture fans, the team should realize how fortunate it is to still have them.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 19, 2008; 11:55 AM ET
 
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Comments

From the previous thread:

Kelly and Wild Child may both end up being very good.

It's hard to tell when the coach is such an old woman that he's nervous about playing them for fear they'll make mistakes.

I'd bet my house & lot that in his first year Art Monk ran the wrong route now and then, or missed a block or two - and I'm sure he heard about it from his coaches.

That's fine. The only way to learn the game is to do it in real-time. Practice and film-room hours cannot substitute for that.

So if Zorn is conceding the playoffs are not realistic, then he should play Moss, ARE and Cooley sparingly this week and let Kelly, Thomas and Davis get lots of real game experience, not just a play here or a play there, but every down on multiple series.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 19, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

lol Flounder, are you falling for Vinny talk?

Did he really say he has a plan? Come on, this FO doesn't plan.


The player turnover sounds good.


This is kinda a make or break year for Vinny IMO.

The draft, free agents, and our existing players on the fringe all will determine where this team is going. It could look pretty positive by the end of the offseason or it could look really, really bad. We'll see.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 19, 2008 11:59 AM |

I'm just letting you know what he is saying I did not say I agree or dis-agree.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

PS anyone got a link to the Kareem Moore hit on Ocho Cinco?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 19, 2008 11:52 AM |

This is all I could fine pretty good video.

This is the actual hit not messing with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRX2AiAn2s

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

So Jack, when Roddy was disappointing the Atlanta Fans, you were saying to yourself, 'Boy, I wish I had this guy on my team!'???

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I was, he would have been a starter over Brandon Lloyd and ARE since his rookie year. You can say Atlanta was disappointed all you want, it doesn't change the fact that his production kicks the crap out of what we've had here from anybody but Moss at the WR position since 2005 so yeah, I would have been very happy with him over the siht we've had.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I going to get a spicy Chicken Samich from Wendy's be nice while I'm gone.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

HA! Larry Michaels is a tool. On so many levels......

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

-91,000 TCCLs: Tickets Let me get this straight. The Redskins charge their fans a ton for tickets and parking and everything else. Then Larry Michael goes on TV and lectures fans about selling tickets for profit to opponents' fans while, at the same time, the owner profits from an arrangement to resell tickets on Stubhub? In this economy, people have to do whatever they can to hold onto those season tickets. Rather than sending Michael out to lecture fans, the team should realize how fortunate it is to still have them.
--------------------------------

Another Larry Michael reference.

Perfect.

Larry is now living rent-free inside JLC's head!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 19, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

"Rather than sending Michael out to lecture fans, the team should realize how fortunate it is to still have them."


Where/when was it confirmed that the Redskins "sent Michael out to lecture fans"?

Or is that just speculation?


Clarification please.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 19, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Larry is now living rent-free inside JLC's head!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 19, 2008 12:05 PM


Somebody has to occupy that space

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 19, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"He also said we could see some turnover on the roster depending on certain things when pressed he said maybe up to 14 players.
Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 11:54 AM |
Vinny said this? Cool.....let the speculation begin....
Posted by: dlhaze1 "

My list of 14
Griffin
Washington
Green
Moore
Rogers
Smoot
Taylor
Thrash
Yoder
Plackemeir
Suisham
Fabini
Fincher
Albright

Posted by: Masonman | December 19, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Did Santana's penalty really cost the team? I don't believe the Bengals scored on their next possession even with better field position. If so, while Santana's "prop" was stupid, it did not cost the team and JLC is wrong again.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

+++Mix and McMullen

who picked these guys up?

Posted by: BeantownGreg+++

McMullen went to Seattle, where in four games he had 7 catches for 124 yards and a 17.7 yard average. Basically equaling the entire production of our second rounders for a season.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I don't see why we should get rid of Moore or Rogers.

Rogers is still a darn good corner and at the least we should trade him.

And Moore was getting lots of praise in preseason and was higher in the depth chart than Horton until he got hurt. Gotta keep him.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 19, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

-73 TCCLs: First Quarter Fumbles. First Clinton Portis and then Chris Cooley. This offense isn't good enough or confident enough right now to overcome those kinds of mistakes, especially at the start of a game. It's a killer.
--------------------------

I don't believe Portis fumbled against Cincy.

He did the previous week against Baltimore, but this is titled, "A Tough Week in TCCLs," not "A Tough Two Weeks in TCCLs."

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Larrys's just doing his job. He's a company schill. Everybody knows it, everybody's fine with it. Its not worth wasting a post on.
All you are doing is giving the source-meter another reason to exist.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 19, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

My list of 14
Griffin
Washington
Green
Moore
Rogers
Smoot
Taylor
Thrash
Yoder
Plackemeir
Suisham
Fabini
Fincher
Albright


Posted by: Masonman | December 19, 2008 12:10 PM


Why would you release Moore, Fincher, rogers, smoot

these are young players that provide depth.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 19, 2008 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Did Santana's penalty really cost the team? I don't believe the Bengals scored on their next possession even with better field position. If so, while Santana's "prop" was stupid, it did not cost the team and JLC is wrong again.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

It did hurt momentum, but regardless, its bush league to overly celebrate a TD in a game your getting your butt handed to you by a 1-11-1 team in a must win game with your season tanking and 5 out of 6 game skid. It was stupid and when your down 17 zip shut up, hand the ball to the ref and try and get back in the game. that celebration was indicative of everything that's wrong with the Redskins players, they just don't get it. That attitude is why we always lose to teams we shouldn't and they always under perform, cause they're idiots.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse


Larry Michael lecturing fans? That guy is a freakin' sycophant. The worst play by play man ever.

Posted by: knight1977 | December 19, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

87 TCCLs: Rock Cartwright. On a day when special teams largely imploded amid penalties and the Redskins let their season slip away, this dude came to play. He went all out and nearly scored a TD on a long kickoff return after Cincinnati had gone ahead 20-10 in the fourth quarter.

By Jason La Canfora | December 19, 2008; 11:55 AM

*yawn*

Yeah JLC, keep pimpin (shouts to 4th) Cartwright like he's the messiah - the holier than thou, keep painting the picture the HE is THE ONLY one to show up.

Man i wish we had a team full of Cartwrights - F it. Throw 'em in at RE and see what we get. I bet because "he comes to play" and "goes all out", that he'll be the answer to the Redskins sack woes.

Please.

His run back reminded me of that one long run he had in the preseason, which yielded the same results - a run which should've but didn't result in six. Did they score after he made that glorious return.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 19, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Larry does sucks at play by play. Man I sure do miss Frank Herzog. Also they should replace Sam with Doc Walker, but I digress.

Posted by: Predator48 | December 19, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse


Did Santana's penalty really cost the team? I don't believe the Bengals scored on their next possession even with better field position. If so, while Santana's "prop" was stupid, it did not cost the team and JLC is wrong again.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse

It did hurt momentum, but regardless, its bush league to overly celebrate a TD in a game your getting your butt handed to you by a 1-11-1 team in a must win game with your season tanking and 5 out of 6 game skid. It was stupid and when your down 17 zip shut up, hand the ball to the ref and try and get back in the game. that celebration was indicative of everything that's wrong with the Redskins players, they just don't get it. That attitude is why we always lose to teams we shouldn't and they always under perform, cause they're idiots.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I agree, it was REALLY bad timing to pull that move out his pocket. This is the view of most level headed fans who don't appreciate the players whose celebrations are ridiculous and embarrassing (doin their dance after a tackle on a 4 yard gain). On the flip side, Moss89 was said to be trying to spark his teammates with this "celebration"... maybe he's just covering his tail... Im more pissed that someone didn't go over to him and tell him how F*&% ing STUPID that was when they were still down 10 points against the 1-11-1 Bungles with the playoff hopes of the team hanging in the balance. Ill give Moss a pass on this one, since he's accrued points with his play and conduct previously and since the season is lost anyways.

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 19, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Of course Larry is doing his job. And he's probably being paid at least 5x what JLC gets from the WaPo, so maybe that's the source of the bitterness.

If Larry was Vice President of PR for WalMart, would you expect him to do anything but push positive news about the company?

Of course not.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 19, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | December 19, 2008 12:32 PM

LOL! My thoughts exactly.....

Prediction time!

Zorn will survive.

Danny Smith will not.

Maybe one more offensive coach ocmes in, but that's it as far as coaches. But, Danny Smith has seemed to seal his fate this year.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Michaels is a tool. And he hates it when people call him Michaels instead of his actual last name "Michael". Dont mix that up people! It sets off his internal source meter! Dont wana offend any fans of the old school former players, but Sunny and Sam need to go. They are embarrassing with their constant senile comments every sunday. The Skins needs some youth infusion about as bad as the O and D lines!

Posted by: TonyButterFingersHomo1 | December 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

POLL QUESTION:

Is the problem here Stan Hixon or Devin Thomas?

*** from the WaPo Story on DT today ***

Thomas "In practice, you might rep one play all week. Regardless if you're starting or not, they just might rep a play one time all week. But then it's in the game plan for the game and you're expected to know it. That's a tough thing in itself. In the NFL, you've got a book so big, and a coach can pull a play from anywhere in that book. That's where it's tough. He might go to a play that you did three weeks ago, and you've still got to remember how it's down, routes, splits and everything."

Well, not exactly, wide receivers coach Stan Hixon said. " in this offense right here, it's basically the same plays each week," Hixon said. "The wildest we get is different formations. We're in Week 16. There may have been one or two plays that we called that weren't in the game plan."

***


Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

So Jack, when Roddy was disappointing the Atlanta Fans, you were saying to yourself, 'Boy, I wish I had this guy on my team!'???

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I was, he would have been a starter over Brandon Lloyd and ARE since his rookie year. You can say Atlanta was disappointed all you want, it doesn't change the fact that his production kicks the crap out of what we've had here from anybody but Moss at the WR position since 2005 so yeah, I would have been very happy with him over the siht we've had.

Posted by: zjfr2

I was about to post something extremely similar to this. Roddy White has never been invisible on the field. He was never a negligible player. He was "disappointing" because he flashed all the ability in the world, but couldn't seem to get over that final hump. Devin Thomas hasn't flashed anything more than being a good open field runner. And as numerous punt and kick returners can attest, that's not nearly enough to be successful at the WR position. Thomas is a LOT further behind than Roddy White was his rookie year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 19, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

87 TCCLs: Rock Cartwright. - Jasno

When I read THIS beat reported giving props to THIS player, I get a sneaking feeling that said player is going to be an offseason casualty.

Santana's shoe shine was stupid stupid stupid stupid vanity stupid showboating stupid. How could he NOT know that using a prop is an automatic penalty? (i.e., I don't believe him when he said he didn't know). Fifteen yards on the kickoff ... out of bounds to the 30 ... equivalent of fair catch plus 10. Stupid. Maybe it didn't "cost them the game" (like Seller's fumble did), but it showed a stunning lack of focus and concentration ... from a supposed "leader". Stupid.

Posted by: dcsween | December 19, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Wow, what a depressing end to the season. The Iggles are going to stomp us. This is the week our defense wilts and gives up 35+ points. I think Suisham is good for maybe 2 out of 4 field goal attempts? This could be a 42-6 type game.

The only silver lining is that the Redskins front office won't use a late season surge to justify keeping some of the old, deadweight personnel we have on this team (ie Fabini, Griff, Washington, Taylor, Springs). Hopefully Vinny and the Danny will keep Zorn, and actually commit to a viable rebuilding effort, instead of this perennial shake-up of offensive philosophies and coaching personnel while the players get older and more disillusioned with gameday and look to spend those huge paychecks.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | December 19, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

chris larry micheals


coincidence?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 19, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

dmorgan,

We will probably lose but this defense will not come close to giving up 42 points.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

But, Danny Smith has seemed to seal his fate this year.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 12:35 PM

Which would be a stupid shame. Skins special teams have been the only consistently good thing in Gibbs 2.0 (except maybe for John Hall and Derrick Frost themselves).

Posted by: dcsween | December 19, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

chris larry micheals
coincidence?

ugh is that dumb.....so that was you doing that anonymously pre-registration huh? You are unbelievably un-witty Truth...

Posted by: chrislarry | December 19, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Larry is now living rent-free inside JLC's head!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 |

Great comment!!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 19, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Thomas "In practice, you might rep one play all week. Regardless if you're starting or not, they just might rep a play one time all week. But then it's in the game plan for the game and you're expected to know it. ..."
________________

As the #3 QB, Tom Brady used to stay late after practice to get himself reps. This season, Fred Davis stayed late after practice to get extra practice and more reps.

Mr. Thomas, have you even ASKED anyone for help on how you might be able to get more reps (assuming that not getting enough practice reps is your problem)?

Personal. Responsibility.

Posted by: dcsween | December 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

So Jack, when Roddy was disappointing the Atlanta Fans, you were saying to yourself, 'Boy, I wish I had this guy on my team!'???

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I was, he would have been a starter over Brandon Lloyd and ARE since his rookie year. You can say Atlanta was disappointed all you want, it doesn't change the fact that his production kicks the crap out of what we've had here from anybody but Moss at the WR position since 2005 so yeah, I would have been very happy with him over the siht we've had.

Posted by: zjfr2


I was about to post something extremely similar to this. Roddy White has never been invisible on the field. He was never a negligible player. He was "disappointing" because he flashed all the ability in the world, but couldn't seem to get over that final hump. Devin Thomas hasn't flashed anything more than being a good open field runner. And as numerous punt and kick returners can attest, that's not nearly enough to be successful at the WR position. Thomas is a LOT further behind than Roddy White was his rookie year.

Posted by: psps23 | December 19, 2008 12:43 PM

Roddy White was picked to become the #1 wideout, so he was on the field for virtually every snap. The best any of the rookies could have done was to become #3 this year. They weren't on the field to make plays.

Revisionist history at it's best. We need to create a RI Source Meter! Cuz some of you dudes be pulling SJK out where the sun don't shine........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 19, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, I hope you're right. Of course, with this offense, it doesn't matter if the defense gives up 20 or 200 points. I don't see us scoring more than 17, and that's on a fantastic day.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | December 19, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Revisionist history at it's best. We need to create a RI Source Meter! Cuz some of you dudes be pulling SJK out where the sun don't shine........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

We didn't make this comparison, Vinny did, don't blame me for pointing out how stupid and wrong the GM is just like when he lied about the actual production of Calais Campbell and Quentin Groves a week or so back. All my point is for him to say compare Thomas and Kelly to Ginn and White is idiotic and way way off base. He can't even compare them to the other receivers drafted in Round 2 this year. Not our comparison, his, get that straight...

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 19, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Did Santana's penalty really cost the team? I don't believe the Bengals scored on their next possession even with better field position. If so, while Santana's "prop" was stupid, it did not cost the team and JLC is wrong again.

Posted by: Lisa_R

It's a sucker punch in the gut for the defense to have to start on its own side of the 50 after the kickoff. And what did it accomplish? Nothing but some selfish "Me,too" stuff after Portis' little "me, me, me" rant earlier. Cinncinnatti is so inept that they did not score from that field position. So is that your reasone for saying JLC is wrong again? Everything about that stunt by Moss was classless, childish and clueless.
It hurts every player who is trying as hard as he can to win that game to have Moss do that. That is the real cost, and it can not be measured in points.

Posted by: driley | December 19, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I heard a Stub Hub commercial on Snyderadio this morning. It was Larry Michael's voice. It was about "selling your Redskins tickets" ... NOTHING about being a place to BUY Redskins tickets. Stupidity all the way up to the top.

I had the joyous opportunity to listen to Vinny this morning. Lots of words. Said NOTHING. I don't know if he even has anything going on in his head that could possibly be SOMETHING. He spent about a minute belaboring a point about getting behind in a game and repeating the words "INflate" and "DEflate." Regular Norman Einstein. Stupid.

Skins are infected with a bad case of stupid from top to bottom.

Posted by: dcsween | December 19, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

ome of the old, deadweight personnel we have on this team (ie Fabini, Griff, Washington, Taylor, Springs). ...look to spend those huge paychecks.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | December 19, 2008 12:46 PM

Fabini is in a different category from the other three. He's not getting a huge paycheck. His job is exactly what a team needs. Someone to "back up" when a starter falls.

Also, calling guys "dead wood" is just disrespectful. Maybe post-prime and/or overpaid (which would be accurate), but dead wood is just disrespectful. Its not like they haven't all contributed at a very high level as recently as last season.

Posted by: dcsween | December 19, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

In regards to Mr. Thomas, it is the same book that Moss, Are, and Thrash have to learn. Seems that no one had seen this book before camp, so everyone should of had the same amount of time to learn it. Some can learn, the rookies can't? Hmmmmmm.

Posted by: driley | December 19, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I liked the column about Zorn.

Give him time.

Give him o-lineman

Give him a speedy, field-flipping skill position player

Give him a defense that can play some 3-4 and 4-3

Give him a running back by committee approach

Give him another season to see if Campbell can run his system

Give him the easy schedule the Skins will have next year-- Oakland/Kansas City/Denver anyone?


Get a serious GM who'll bring in players that refelct his scheme and not just a bunch of big name free agents looking for cash and a heliocopter ride

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

What's with JLC's man crush on Rock Cartwright. He's the only Redskin that he's never been critical of and praises weekly. I think Rock is a very good leader and important in the locker room, but I challenge anyone to name a slower Kick Returner in the league.

Posted by: dcwun | December 19, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Vinny today: Come on redskin fans let's show up at fed ex field on Sunday and cheer real hard, and play spoiler!!!! Please spare me! We need ol and dl attention in the draft . We need to boo real hard at this next game maybe someone will listen to our concerns for this team

Posted by: jiza32 | December 19, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I just want to know how many of you experts are currently running an NFL franchise? ..... anyone??? Didn't think so

Posted by: skinztattoo89 | December 19, 2008 5:13 PM | Report abuse

You fans who are apologists for this team's personnel, ownership and management are also part of the reason why the team, whom I spent my youth and waking years wasting my time rooting for, is so ridiculously un-lovable or even likeable.

They are bad, and besides a handful of semi-cool players who's names don't appear in ESPN and Peter King columns... they are wildly over-hyped and over-rated every year. Their record and individual numbers consistently proves this.

No fan want them to be bad.. or mediocre. But that's what they are.

How can anyone who wants the team to succeed NOT be mad at the management, and yet scoff at someone else's statement of the obvious?


The obvious is:

The players get overpaid to underachieve. The coaches don't/can't do anything about that. And the owenership/management has done nothing to alleviate that for as long as they have been in place.

But hey... HAIL SKINS! Portis and Cooley (And don't forget Mike Sellers!) made the pro bowl.

That's what a skins fan has to look forward to.

As compared to the gazillion Eagles fans, whom don't seem to mind actually watching football games, that will invade Landover on Sunday.

That's okay... There's always next year. Another skill position player or five and hello Super Bowl!

Posted by: dave_fjeld | December 19, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

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