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The Big Issues: Will Campbell Return?

With two quiet weeks looming until organized team activities resume June 1, this seems like a good time to get your take on the team's burning issues. First up: the QB or, as Jim Zorn says it, the kewbie. Given that owner Daniel Snyder attempted to trade for Jay Cutler and considered moving up in the NFL draft to select quarterback Mark Sanchez, Jason Campbell's status is Topic 1.

By Cindy Boren  |  May 12, 2009; 10:56 AM ET
 
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Comments

Is this really an issue? Hes obviously coming back.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 12, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

If he plays well and I think he will, Snyder will pay him. The teams have the leverage. They can always franchise him if need be. What could be a problem is if Rogers has a big year too. I think you pay JC first though if he has a great year.

Posted by: skinswest | May 12, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

And he would leave after a successful year in order to join his 9th offensive system in 6 years?

The only way he doesn't come back is another 13TD 6INT season.

Posted by: jmg878 | May 12, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

@Rypien11, @jmg878

Stop fooling yourselves - it's not up to HIM whether he comes back, but Snyder.

I say no unless we see at least one playoff win.

Posted by: Semvechkin | May 12, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Square peg, round hole..
JC is an average QB but not ideal for a West Coast Offense. If Skins commit to JC this year, then they should adapt the offense to his strengths.
Snyder knew this when shopping JC around last month. And maybe will continue to do so until the October trading deadline.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I don't want him to be gone, I love the guy as a leader and a QB, but management obviously doesn't, and they'll be stupid enough to let him go

Posted by: brocknbone33 | May 12, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Enough "new system" sh-t.. JC had the same system from 05 to 08 with Gibbs and Saunders. A modified Coryell type offense.
A new system with Zorn in 08 with a pure WCO. But, simplified the last 8 games when he struggled (actually more like the old Saunders/Gibbs system). Thats 2 new systems in 5 years.
How did Matt Ryan, Flacco and Pennington do in a new system last year?
JC is an average QB.. 24th in the league in red zone efficiency. Unfortunately Snyder found out 2 months ago all the other GM's in the league know this too.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


And he would leave after a successful year in order to join his 9th offensive system in 6 years?

The only way he doesn't come back is another 13TD 6INT season.

Posted by: jmg878 | May 12, 2009 11:17 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Unless we go deep into the Playoffs, I cant see him returning. It was obvious this off-season that the FO does not feel he is the right fit here. I think he can be a good game manager. Right now he is not playing at an elite level, but there arent many teams that have an "elite" QB. Snyder still is under the impression that the skins can buy victories.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is no longer a young QB. With a patchwork OL lacking depth and a pitiful WR corps, it is difficult to imagine Campbell having significant improvement on last season's mediocrity. Based on this, it is tough to imagine Snyder committing significant guaranteed money to a mediocre middle-aged QB who once again will have failed to out-perform the Giants, Eagles, and/or Cowboys.

Posted by: Dellis2 | May 12, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Situation #1. He has a very good year. The Redskins Franchise him, and either trade him, or sign him to an extension.

Situation #2. He has a lousy year, and walks...

Its pretty cut and dried. The team has the upper hand in this case.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I thought this was supposed to ask is he coming back THIS year. I guess I was mistaken.

Next year? I think for him and Zorn to be back, they must make playoffs. Otherwise Mr. Impatient will probably pull the plug.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 12, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Neither Jay Cutler nor Mark Sanchez are your proto-WCO_QBs.. so I'm not sure that's the litmus...

Now, I think Soup is potentially worth more to us than either of those guys - however, if he doesn't pan out this year why would you WANT him back?

He's had enough time to have some success now, complaints about OLine, scheme & receivers aside.

Sadly, it may not work out at all - but there's hope!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

I believe this will be Jason's last year as a Redskin. I think he's an excellent QB and will have a stand out year, but will not resign, no matter what Snyder offers.

Just like when Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Brad Johnson left the Redskins, he'll go to another team and prosper. All went to teams that played in the Super Bowl and all but one have rings.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

This is a non-issue. If Jason has a strong season, he'll be back -- either with the franchise tag or, more likely, the salary cap will increase significantly (or disappear entirely) in the offseason, enabling Snyder to sign Campbell if that's what he wants to do.

If Jason doesn't have a strong season, he won't -- and probably shouldn't -- be back anyway.

The only option I don't see out there is the Redskins wanting Jason back and him deciding to leave anyway.

Posted by: editor7 | May 12, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Lets face it of the 4 QB's in the NFC East Campbell is at the bottom. In the whole NFC I'd say only Det, Min, TB and SF have worse QB's. (and Det and TB drafted young guns so it might not be the case next year) I use to think Campbell was in the middle third of QB's but now think he is in the bottom third. Snyder has to upgrade at QB or the Skins will not be able to compete for the division. This is Campbell's last shot to prove himself.. but I don't see him reaching the next level. Hopefully Colt will get a chance to play so we can at least get a idea if he can be the long term answer otherwise the Skins might have to start from scratch again...

Posted by: sovine08 | May 12, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

It's as simple as this...if we do not make the playoffs, JC and JZ are gone. Defense will be a strong point for us for a while. Look for an offensive minded coach to come in. I do not think a rookie QB will be what ownership goes for. I think they bring in a FA QB. Not sure who, but no rookie next year.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 12, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Someone should ask the FO what standard is Campbell being held to before asking if he'll return.

Does the team have to make the playoofs?

What if he's injured and Collins plays well again?

What if the medicore wideout play continues?

What if Portis gets hurt, Betts is ineffective, and he can't win just with his arm?

What sort of numbers must Campbell reach to be shown the money?

Answer these questions first.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 12, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

This is so a set up question. There should be atleast one more option.

As in Tax, you can phrase a question however you want it, but the answer will ALWAYS be, 'It Depends'......

As the question above will be the case too.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Campbell is, at best, a middle-of-the-road NFL QB. Not the worst, not the best. Will win a few games and lose some games. He's better when he gets lot of protection and he's definitely better on longer passes than shorter passes. He's basically Jay Schroeder without the howitzer hanging from his right shoulder. You can win a Super with a Campbell if you have a complete, outstanding team that does NOT rely on the QB to carry them. He doesn't move through his progressions well, or fast enough when he does, and his mechanics are inconsistent enough to affect his accuracy more often than you'd like.

He is NOT worth a mega-contract after this season, and the Redskins would be best served by letting him move on and getting someone more suited to the needs of the current system / coach.

Posted by: kingrob76 | May 12, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

clark

"I believe this will be Jason's last year as a Redskin. (He) will have a stand out year, but will not resign, no matter what Snyder offers."

Me, too.

And would you blame him?

The team has treated him like he's a statue and they a pigeon with the runs.

Thing is, if the team has to franchise either Campbell or Rogers, who gets the tag?

I say neither will be a redskin in 2010 as the team will chase name players in the possible uncapped year.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 12, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

I believe this will be Jason's last year as a Redskin. I think he's an excellent QB and will have a stand out year, but will not resign, no matter what Snyder offers.

Just like when Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Brad Johnson left the Redskins, he'll go to another team and prosper. All went to teams that played in the Super Bowl and all but one have rings.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

The problem with your scenario is that JC will be a restricted free agent after next season, and his mobility will therefore be significantly limited. If JC excells and no contract agreement is reached before next offseason, they will "tender" him at the highest level, thereby giving themselves the option of matching any offer and keeping him, or declining to match and receiving a 1st and a 3rd round pick from the offering team. The 'Skins hold most of the cards in this situation, and therefore Campbell will be back in 2010 if that's what the team wants.

Posted by: rbpalmer | May 12, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

The problem with your scenario is that JC will be a restricted free agent after next season, and his mobility will therefore be significantly limited. If JC excells and no contract agreement is reached before next offseason, they will "tender" him at the highest level, thereby giving themselves the option of matching any offer and keeping him, or declining to match and receiving a 1st and a 3rd round pick from the offering team. The 'Skins hold most of the cards in this situation, and therefore Campbell will be back in 2010 if that's what the team wants.

Posted by: rbpalmer | May 12, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

There is no such thing as teams "holding the cards". And sure, be a restricted FA makes mobility difficult, but not impossible. No team wants a player who doesn't want to play for them. Jay Cuter WAS under contract, but now he's in Chicago. You pout and you're out, plain and simple.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

4th,

it's definitely a "depends on.." type of decision. As it stands i would say yes, campbell has show the progress and leadership to be a redskin next season. now all the depends ons come into play.

Does anyone think that he could have a bad season, but get re-signed as a backup (todd should be gone by then) and then the skins still go after bradford,tebow(?) or any of the '10 qbs? Campbell's value around the league doesn't seem very high right now, a bad season would ward off most fa suitors for him.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

clark, Cutler is out, but Denver has 2 first round picks. The Redskins categorically hold the cards in this situation. Whether he has a great, or sub-par year, the redskins have the upper hand. They can Franchise him. Period. End of discussion.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

agree with FedorEm..
Both JC and JZ gone if no playoffs this year. I believe its why Snyder went so thin in the Draft and Free Agents on the Offensive side of the ball.. So much so, you could call it almost a corporate poison pill strategy.. Keep the canvas clean for a new offensive minded Head Coach...
Case in point...200 Mil committed to Defensive Free Agents and Draft picks..
And only a few mil to a waived free Agent Dockery...with a patchwork of overweight has-beens and undrafted Terps, while passing on the TO's, Holts, and Boldins.
However one offensive upside may be WR Roydell Williams who could turn out to be Vinny's best bargain Free Agent "find" in recent memory.. If Roydell plays like he did a few years ago.. he could pull the double teams off Moss and thus impact greatly JC's effectiveness..
Otherwise, all other significant personnel moves have been on the Defense..

Good luck Zorny..you've now entered the Snyder second year Head coach "knee jerk firing" twilight zone...... Only dormant for awhile during Gibbs 2.0 .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It's as simple as this...if we do not make the playoffs, JC and JZ are gone. Defense will be a strong point for us for a while. Look for an offensive minded coach to come in. I do not think a rookie QB will be what ownership goes for. I think they bring in a FA QB. Not sure who, but no rookie next year.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 12, 2009 11:41 AM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

This is the last year of Campbell's rookie contract -- unless there is an uncapped year -- in which case he's a RFA.

His on-the-field performance will determine if a new contract is warranted.

So far, I wouldn't pay him big bucks either... He has plenty of potential and has not really gotten a fair chance with all the coaching/offensive scheme changes. But he's having trouble delivering the ball accurately down field, holds onto the ball too long, and his decision making is slow for a WCO. Hopefully he can correct most of these issues with a second year in the same offense.

This is clearly a gamble on all sides of the business equation. The FO could resign him long term (during training camp) and for a discounted price, but only if they release another player or play a salary shell game al la Haynesworth. If he plays well, then it would cost the Skins much more to sign him; plus they risk losing Campbell to another team with more salary cap space. If he continues to play poorly, then he's only going to get a backup contract somewhere else...

Posted by: siris | May 12, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

clark, Cutler is out, but Denver has 2 first round picks. The Redskins categorically hold the cards in this situation. Whether he has a great, or sub-par year, the redskins have the upper hand. They can Franchise him. Period. End of discussion.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Again, and this scenario works if he has a stellar season, but if he refuses to sign, pout, refuses show up for OTAs, etc., they will release him if they can't get the value they want. Whatever that is with Vinny running the show, BTW.

Its not the Redskins are completely innocent in all of this either. The media will eat it up as another Snyder cluster F***.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

who cares ? after 5 years if JC is not a legitimate starter, on a playoff team, the clock has run out on his chances here..

if he leads the team into the playoffs and beyond, i suspect they will find a way to keep him.. if not, we can certainly do as well without him because the rest of the team will be sufficient.. he is simply not a difference maker as a qb.

Posted by: shally | May 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

For me the real question about Campbell is: how good is he?

I was listening to Rich Kotite, noted stat geek, report that a if a quarterback doesn't throw an INT in a particular game, the team's chances of winning are two in three (66%). In fact, that's better than the team's prospects if the same QB had thrown 2 TDs (58%). So is a QB like Jason, who hardly ever throws INTs, more valuable to his team's chances than somebody like Jay Cutler, who tossed 25 TDs over the course of a season, but also 18 interceptions?

Kotite went on to say that total TDs thrown, total turnovers, average yards per pass, and total sacks were more strongly correlated to wins than was total yards passing.

In 2008, Jason finished among all NFL 32 starter QBs:
TDs: T for 21st with Jamarcus Russell & Shaun Hill
INTs: Best in NFL
Sacks: Tied for 27th with Bulger (St Louis) & Ryan Fitzpatrick (Cinc)
Completion %: Tied for 14th with Jay Cutler
Avg yds per pass: Tied for 24th with Kerry Collins and Kyle Orton

Looking that over, seems to me he's doing a good job of 1) keeping the ball moving, and 2) not losing games for you. Add in the running (he was in a class with David Garrard and Tavaris Jackson in yards per carry).

He's not much at winning the game for you when you're being outplayed everywhere else. Maybe that will come.


Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

he is simply not a difference maker as a qb.

Posted by: shally | May 12, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

no turnovers the first 8 games played probably made a diff in the outcomes of those games.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

I WANNA TALK TO SAMSON

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

I expect JC to do fairly well and then balk at any number Snyder gives him. He'll be gone, bank on it, this is Skins tradition, we train up people and then when they are ready for that first contract and proven they are worthy, they leave and go somewhere else.

Posted by: Veretax | May 12, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

SI thinks that our own beloved Little Danny is the 3rd worst owner in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/08/nfl.owners/index.html?eref=T1

I must say, I'm disappointed. I had hoped that we could top this list. Come on Danny, try harder and maybe you can overtake William Ford and Al Davis next year! Set your sights high!

Posted by: skinsfan213 | May 12, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

You have to be able to complete passes to your receivers according to their height.

Did Kotite forget about that part?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I would hate to be the Time Warner (owns SI) advertising sales rep working on the Six Flags Account.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


SI thinks that our own beloved Little Danny is the 3rd worst owner in the NFL:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/08/nfl.owners/index.html?eref=T1

I must say, I'm disappointed. I had hoped that we could top this list. Come on Danny, try harder and maybe you can overtake William Ford and Al Davis next year! Set your sights high!

Posted by: skinsfan213 | May 12, 2009 12:28 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

This is a pointless discussion. Campbell has played average at best despite the many excuses that some make for his play.

Simply put, if he has another average year he'll probably be gone. It's time to stop making excuses and start performing in year 5. If he has a great year, then he'll be back obviously.

Posted by: Jason10 | May 12, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Campbell was not that great in College. His senior year was his best year. I still dont think he was worth a 1st round pick. When you have Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams as your running backs, you will probably look much better than you really are.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Top 5 Owners = NFL @ss kissers

How can Al Davis be the worst owner. To me, he is in my top 5.

4th's Top 5 Owners:

1. Al Davis
2. Mike Brown
3. Green Bay Inc.
4. Bud Adams
5. Mara/Tisch

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

MY first issue:

Is JLC gonna remain as the beat writer beyond this year? I certainly hope not... He is a tool. Reid isn't much better. They both seem like muckrakers to me... but I suppose that is what you bright boys and girls at WaPo are looking for... eyeballs over true objectivity. FTR, I don't have any issue with negativity where warranted. My beef is that both seem to default to visionless bashing with a steady undercurrent of inaccuracy if it meets the need for a negative report or review. Its noticeable, and if I were an editor or on the editorial board, I would demand an improvement. WaPo's Redskin reporting, for me, is not trustworthy as I have seen several occasions where the reports are inaccurate. Pretty frickin' sad that the paper in the Nation's Capital can't be trusted to accurately report the sports news for the area's premier franchise.

I'll go on record now: JC17 is going to have a great year and garner a huge contract. I think the off season QB rumblings were a mixture of actual attempts to bring in a perceived upgrade at the position, a "stick" based approach to lighting a fire under JC AND THE REST OF THE TEAM, and posturing for the draft to get the guy they really wanted all along, Brian Orakpo.

The message has been pretty well broadcast to the team: perform, or we will get somebody else who can. I think the Redskins have a reputation amongst the players in the league for running a top notch operation as far as getting the best in facilities and paying top dollar for perceived positional improvement. The message to those same players is that they have to put in the work and get the job done. No better way to do that than hanging your QB out when everybody knows that his team mates certainly didn't do the best job of helping him excel.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 12, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Jason will get sacked 59 times this season (20 will come from the Jints D-Line)
He'll post a 59.50 QB rating because of it, and Vin-Sanity's strategy of sabotaging JC's career by refusing to draft any O-Lineman will be fully manifested. And JC will be shipped off.
Meanwhile, Barno will get thrown in jail for mashing up Oxycontins and doing lines with Rush Limbaugh in a small town in Mississippi.
Rush will not go to jail..... mainly because they love him in small towns of Mississippi. Although they really couldn't articulate why.......they just do.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | May 12, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

I still think he should be afforded every opportunity to succeed this year. I have a feeling we will be blowing up our offense next year. Especially if the terrible threesome doesnt step it up 500 fold.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

OK, for all those who insist that playing in Multiple offensive systems, playing behind a God awful line, and having one receiver in a three to four receiver set that can separate from his defender, are all excuses...fair enough. Name one QB in the NFL who HAS excelled or who has been productive in the same situation.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Campbell coming back? Unless he's noticeably better, Danny has already made a call on this. So what have the Skins done to improve the offense around him?

The answer is 'not much'. The major investments this offseason have been on defense (Hall, Albert, Orakpo).

On offense, we did sign Dockery, but Kendall was pretty solid in 2008. Dock isn't an a major upgrade -- but he is a long term solution to LG, whereas Kendall was not.

We've got a bunches of OL and WR coming through camp. We're trying to catch lightning in a bottle. The odds aren't good that we'll see major upgrades, but if you don't try, the odds are zero.

The offense is highly dependent on the health of the OL and Santana Moss. Santana is rarely full speed for 16 games (last season,he got thru 8 before tweaking his hammy in DET) and the OL got younger only at LG, (where Kendall played all 16 games).

So will Campbell come back? Not likely, since the key areas aren't noticeably better than in 2008. Though without the Steelers and Ravens (who aren't on this years schedule), Campbell did have a QB rating of 92.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I admire how Jason Campbell has handled
himself during this ordeal. My feeling is
how can you play for someone that obviously does not think you are the "One"
to lead the team. If I were Jason, I would
let this be my audtion season to prove management wrong. If he plays well great,
if not, adios Redskins anyway. I wouldn't
play for owner that treats his players that way. Its a business, but you got
to at least have "Respect"

Posted by: madalao | May 12, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

I think that Campbell is an unrestricted FA unless the Skins franchise him or tender him at a level that is probably way more than they want to play. Scenario #1 is that Campbell has a strong year and decides to use his leverage to get a huge FA deal or to insist on a trade. Scenario #2 is that he has an average year similar to last year and the Skins let him walk.

Either way I seriously doubt that Campbell has any intention of staying here long-term. He's going to be 28 at the end of the year and likely has only one shot at a big-money deal. Who would want to play for an owner like Snyder and a GM like Vinny after they treated him like garbage?

Posted by: wizfan89 | May 12, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Gotta agree with zcezcest1. I would like Campbell to come back, but I think that the lack of serious upgrading to our offense, especially o-line, pretty much guarantees another mediocre-to-bad year for Skins offense. With our defense seriously upgraded and with potential to be one of the best d's in the league (if our d-backs stay healthy, a big if), we may end up resembling the typical Ravens team with a dominating defense and lousy offense.

If that's the case, I'm sure Snyder will opt not to re-sign Campbell and make the huge error of thinking that if only we had had a Cutler or Sanchez we could've been a serious super bowl contender. And the delusional thinking will go on...

Posted by: gringoinmiami | May 12, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I can also see Campbell moving on if he has a great season. Danny has said Campbell needs to prove himself before he gets a contract (which is a very different standard than he applies to Cutler or Sanchez).

If Campbell proves himself, there will be several teams willing to pay him (Minny, TB, AZ), and mgmt's 'throw Jason under the bus' attitude probably makes it more likely he leaves.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I find the comments stating "If" he has a better year humorous.

How in the world is he going to have a better year with that Oline??? He is going to get killed this year. The Tackles are scary bad. If you think Samuels is going to come back from all of his injuries and be effective you are crazy. The RT may be a 400lb fat guy who decided to play football because he felt good when he started a diet. This is hilarious!!!

Posted by: srobert1117 | May 12, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

For all the Campbell haters out there, tell us who you think will be the QB in '10, assuming JC's is gone, and why that other QB will be a significant upgrade from JC. And for all you who are thinking Colt just go back and watch his performance in the Sugar Bowl against UGA and that should remind you that he is not a starter in the NFL, a solid backup who can win you a few games maybe but not in '10.

Posted by: forever8-8 | May 12, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Skinsfaninkaneohe..
The writers are only writing the facts..And they are always extremely accurate......
If reporting about a last place team is negative.. what else can they do? If you dont like it, go to Redskins.com which is controlled by Snyder..

Its the Skins who ended up in last place last year with a QB who passed for half the yardage as the other starting QB's who played 16 games. He only threw 3 passes more than 40+ yards the WHOLE SEASON.. And 2 were YAC's.. His efficiency in the Red zone was 24th in the league. He SHOULD be the question mark of the Redskins.
And sadly, while waiting for JC to develop, the Skins have wasted 4 straight years of a top ranked Defense (top 5).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe
MY first issue:

Is JLC gonna remain as the beat writer beyond this year? I certainly hope not... He is a tool. Reid isn't much better. They both seem like muckrakers to me... but I suppose that is what you bright boys and girls at WaPo are looking for... eyeballs over true objectivity. FTR, I don't have any issue with negativity where warranted. My beef is that both seem to default to visionless bashing with a steady undercurrent of inaccuracy if it meets the need for a negative report or review. Its noticeable, and if I were an editor or on the editorial board, I would demand an improvement. WaPo's Redskin reporting, for me, is not trustworthy as I have seen several occasions where the reports are inaccurate. Pretty frickin' sad that the paper in the Nation's Capital can't be trusted to accurately report the sports news for the area's premier franchise.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins bring back Pierce, and he's the qb.

Think about it. Pierce at qb. Mason at rb. Leigh Torrence at WR.

Championship

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Who would want to play for an owner like Snyder and a GM like Vinny after they treated him like garbage?

Posted by: wizfan89 | May 12, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Some just come for the $$$$

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

On Snyder being the 3rd worst owner, not sure I agree with that. He spends lots of $$, which means at least he wants to succeed. He was placed below the owners of Cincy and SF, two franchises that have been worse than ours.

Of course, down the stretch last year, with the playoffs on the line, we lost to Cincy and SF.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Cindy, I'm raising my hand to note that the headline and the poll question are contradictory -- yes to one would be no to the other. So if you only read the headline and voted, you'd be voting the wrong way.

This doesn't mean anything, I'm just making conversation.

I wish Jason Campbell all the best. I love the dude. I also wish the Washington Redskins all the best. I love 'em. Here's hoping Campbell and the Redskins march together into the future and hoist a Lombardi for us.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 12, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

this is a stupid question that can't be answered in present tense and whose answer is based on hypothetical situations that may or may not occur

Posted by: hillb03 | May 12, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Mon, 11 May 2009 19:00:47 -0700

Alex Marvez, of FOXSports.com, reports free-agent OT Todd Wade (Jaguars) said he is retiring after nine seasons as an offensive lineman.

Posted by: skinfanman | May 12, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Forget the players, management has ruined the identity of our beloved Skins'. How many more seasons will we continue to hear "we just gotta keep fighting..."

Posted by: planetxlive | May 12, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who rates Colt on his Sugar bowl performance is an idiot. He was playing w/ a broken hip...

...maps...

... And Campbell's emotional impetus to leave for another deal may be somewhat tempered by his reluctance to assimilate into yet ANOTHER system... That is, if he has success - which we all hope he does.

..some of us just don't expect it, that's all.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Snyder is absolutely the 3rd worse owner. He has taken a once proud franchise and turned it into a running joke. Every year he tries to rebuild through large free agent acquisitions and every year they fail. This year will be no different. Ties up all of his FA dollars in 3 players and has to sign scrubs to fill the other holes. Has not had a significant draft haul in years and now the team is feeling the pain of not having any dline or oline ready to play. What a joke!

Posted by: srobert1117 | May 12, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Mon, 11 May 2009 15:09:53 -0700

Jamison Hensley, of The Baltimore Sun, reports the Baltimore Ravens have contacted unrestricted free-agent WR Kelley Washington (Patriots) about a possible contract but no agreement has been reached, according to a source.

Posted by: skinfanman | May 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

It's quite simple; either he demonstrates the ability to win a lot of games and performs admirably such that the team is at least very competitive (and, yes, he'll probably have to win a playoff game); in this case he gets paid and stays.

Or he has another mediocre year with flashes of decency and they dump him.

This is the NFL, and it's not about whether he's a nice guy or even a good leader, or says the right things and has mastered the playbook; it's about execution, performance, winning, and playoffs-nothing more.

With the defense the team will be fielding this year, the offense simply has to do its part, and Campbell's contribution is integral to that effort.

Posted by: Tedskins1 | May 12, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Oh, & I saw some MWil clips last night - yeh, hes fat, but he looks MEAN.

..I would NOT want to have to take him on a sweep...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I think JLAC phoned it in (poll question) in a confused state of mine, flat on his stomach while getting a Thai hot stone massage in Arlington.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

this is a stupid question that can't be answered in present tense and whose answer is based on hypothetical situations that may or may not occur

Posted by: hillb03 | May 12, 2009 1:14 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"Alex Marvez, of FOXSports.com, reports free-agent OT Todd Wade (Jaguars) said he is retiring after nine seasons as an offensive lineman."

Let him stay retired for 3 more years and we will sign him!!!

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Mon, 11 May 2009 12:25:25 -0700

Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com, reports the New Orleans Saints have waived OG Cedric Dockery and OT Sam McNaulty.

Posted by: skinfanman | May 12, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Skinsfaninkaneohe..
The writers are only writing the facts..And they are always extremely accurate......
If reporting about a last place team is negative.. what else can they do? If you dont like it, go to Redskins.com which is controlled by Snyder..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:08 PM |

I don't have time to dig up a bunch, but the MOST RECENT inaccuracy appeared in Ried's report yesterday. I documented it WITH a quote from Jim Zorn.

IF you think WapO's reporting is ALWAYS ACCURATE, you are mistaken.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 12, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

For all the Campbell haters out there, tell us who you think will be the QB in '10, assuming JC's is gone, and why that other QB will be a significant upgrade from JC. And for all you who are thinking Colt just go back and watch his performance in the Sugar Bowl against UGA and that should remind you that he is not a starter in the NFL, a solid backup who can win you a few games maybe but not in '10.

Posted by: forever8-8

thing is, its not as much about how Campbell plays. To me, he's earned his extension already. Its about Danny's attitude towards him. If JC plays okay (with okay talent), Danny will want to move on. If Campbell plays great (because the OL plays well and stays healthy), Campbell will show Danny all the loyalty Danny showed him.

Either way, Campbell is likely going to hit the road. If I'm him, I take the backup job in AZ because Warner won't last forever and throwing to Fitzgerald would be a lot of fun.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

..............trifling

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 12, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

They should of called Vinny first.. He might of traded some 2010 picks for them... Is it too late??
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mon, 11 May 2009 12:25:25 -0700

Pat Yasinskas, of ESPN.com, reports the New Orleans Saints have waived OG Cedric Dockery and OT Sam McNaulty.

Posted by: skinfanman | May 12, 2009 1:19 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

I just figured out.

Campbell is the 2009 QB. Your 2010 starting QB? Michael Vick. Think about it. Inexpensive. Doesn't need a lot of protection (won't get it if he did). Marquee name. Sells jerseys nationally.

You read it here first.

Posted by: kingrob76 | May 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

So the big IF on defense is to put ORAKPO at OLB and move ALEXANDER to DE?

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 12, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

MISTAMOE:

What say you? Is this experiment going to fly, or will everybody be back at their established stations come exibition season?

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 12, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Wow, ZZ, why does Campbell deserve an extension??

Sorry - I missed that one...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Should he come back? Absolutely. If Snyder had any football sense, he'd lock him up immediately for the foreseeable future. Will he come back? I'd say it's about 50/50.

At best, Campbell was a top 5 passer in this league. Utterly dominant and unflappable, great decision maker, with good accuracy and instincts to boot.

At worst, he's been shaky and indecisive. "Average" at the worst of times. He'll won't lose games, and he'll periodically win them.

To Snyder, that's not good enough. He needs a bona fide hall-of-famer. He needs a perennial Brett Favre that puts fans in the stands and puts points on the board, regardless of what's given up with mistakes. Campbell simply isn't Snyder's style QB. Whether Snyder can swallow his own pride and accept the fact that careful QBs like Campbell produce successful teams remains to be seen.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Even though he's not the creme de la quarterback, he played fine last year before the injury bug tore up the offense, he was near the top of the QB rankings the first 8 games..Do we have to kidnap Vinny and Danny at shotgun point to get it through their 2 inch thick skulls that the O-line is sorely damaged and lacking in the fundamerntal social graces necessary to excel in the NFC East?? Still waiting for a serious repair effort on the O-line from the Dynamic Duo..

Posted by: frak | May 12, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about Cedric Dockery, but I'd hope they bring in McNutty, um.. err, McNulty.

I can see him now punishing a bottle of Jameson and 'politicking' it up with a 'skinnette in the tunnel before he takes the field.

Since the new guys the 'skins brought in are a bunch of vile thugs, and ought to be outright shot, what is the over/under on arrests this offseason?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Should ask this question after the season.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | May 12, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Damn, Todd Wade is available? Get Redskin One on the tarmac ASAP!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 12, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

damn... you should of been making the phone calls to the GM's for Danny when he was trying to get a 2nd round pick for JC..
I will say this though.. If they trade JC without a significant upgrade of the OLine.. it could haunt Snyder forever if an extra second was all JC needed.
Remember how medicore Brady looked in the Giants Superbowl win..? The Giants rush gave Brady 2 seconds to make his Reads.. versus his normal 3-4 seconds..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At best, Campbell was a top 5 passer in this league. Utterly dominant and unflappable, great decision maker, with good accuracy and instincts to boot.
Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 1:30 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

"He'll won't lose games, and he'll periodically win them."

psps, are you speaking in from this season on, or his entire body of work? I recall an INT in Dallas and Tampa Bay on the final drive that resulted them losing the game.

I don't see Campbell as someone who can win you games, but I do see him periodically losing a game.

Fumble, INT, or simply unable to make the play required of a top tier QB.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

"Utterly dominant and unflappable, great decision maker, with good accuracy and instincts to boot."

Really? I mean do you seriously believe he rates up there with Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc? This sentence in your post had to have been sarcasm. Utterly Dominant? Wow. I dont know what team you were watching last year. The beginning half of the year, you could easily argue it had more to do with Portis than Campbell. You know when he had 5 games of 120+ rushing yards. Granted Campbell had his only 2 300 yard games of the year in that stretch, but I think defenses were keying on Portis more so than Campbell.

Utterly Dominant? That is funny.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I love the Redskins. But if Campbell doesn't do alot better this year, then it's time to kick rocks

Posted by: smckaho420 | May 12, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

LIghten up...It was sarcasm.. no one got it..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At best, Campbell was a top 5 passer in this league. Utterly dominant and unflappable, great decision maker, with good accuracy and instincts to boot.
Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 1:30 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I think the better question to ask is SHOULD Campbell be returning after this year? I think the answer to that is yes, but Daniel Snyder seems to build his team like he's in a fantasy league or playing Madden. He seems to be oblivious to helping his quarterback out and making it easy for Campbell.

By that I do not mean giving him weapons. I think the potential for production is there as the receivers develop. I think its more so giving Jason Campbell and offensive line that's younger and better at protecting him. I read the articles that said Campbell is looking great in practice because he doesn't have defensive lineman attempting to kill him. If Daniel Snyder could understand this fact that, With a productive offensive line and a little time, Jason Campbell can be very affective passer.

Posted by: pakimonster | May 12, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

LIghten up...It was sarcasm.. no one got it..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

At best, Campbell was a top 5 passer in this league. Utterly dominant and unflappable, great decision maker, with good accuracy and instincts to boot.
Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 1:30 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I forgot to take my pills again this morning and was losing my mind.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

haaaaaaaurting....

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 12, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

"This is a pointless discussion. Campbell has played average at best despite the many excuses that some make for his play.
Simply put, if he has another average year he'll probably be gone. It's time to stop making excuses and start performing in year 5. If he has a great year, then he'll be back obviously.Posted by: Jason10"

Might be true. But does it make any sense?

In reality, if the team wins ten or eleven games and a playoff contest, he'll likely be back even if he has a worse year individually than 2008.

There's not much simple about the NFL except some people's opinions.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Anyone ever notice how Ian Curtis sounds like Sam the Eagle from the Muppets?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

This is such a dumb question because the season hasn't even started yet. After the season starts and we see the performance on the field, only then can we make up nonsense like, 'I don't see Campbell as someone who can win you games, but I do see him periodically losing a game,' for instance.

Yeah RED! Nonsense. It's football; sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. Sometimes you throw a game winning touchdown and other times you give the game away via interception or fumble or whatever.

We all know that the brass doesn't stand behind JC17. And after hearing about the discrepancy between coaches and owners, it's only a matter of time before coaches have no say in who starts on the field; which is ridiculous, much like the question this particular blog asks... or like 'fans' who dis 'their' team's starting QB. How you gonna hate on JC17 for being the best redskins qb in a long while... JC17 is the only reason I've forgotten about stellar qbs like, shuler and ramsey.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | May 12, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Oh great, another H8 JC thread.

How about some Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band, instead!

~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 12, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow, ZZ, why does Campbell deserve an extension??

Sorry - I missed that one...

Posted by: DikShuttle

Because outside of the games vs the #1 and #2 defenses, he had a 92 rating. That 92 rating included 6 games vs top 8 defenses.

Because he beat mcnabb in philly (after being down by 14 points early on) and beat romo in dallas. Because he beat Warner and Brees (14 points in the 4th quarter). Because he was successful in the 4th quarter in close games (AZ, StL, NO, Sea, SF -- all close games with key 4th quarter drives)

Because, with a healthy OL, he ran an offense very effectively, even with a rookie HC and a rookie OC.

Seriously, I don't get the dislike for Campbell. I'm just being objective. The guy is a good QB. Probably around the top 10 in the league.

Campbell HAS done something in this league. I'm jut not sure why so many people can't see it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

I didn't realize anything referencing Death Cab for Cutie would be NSFW!! lol.

Is that where the band got it's name? How frekkin' random is THAT?!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I've been watching just about every game of the past year recently (thanks DirecTV Shortcuts), and wanted to chime in on a couple of things. I'm about 4 weeks in to the season.

1) Dockery is a beast. He was the best OL for the Bills. Dominant in the run game with a great punch, and very good in pass protection. He matched up well with John Henderson early in the season. He's not a lateral guy, so don't expect him to do any outside pulling. He's definitely improved since his time in DC. And I thought his last year in DC was great. I think the Bills just couldn't reconcile paying his salary.

I was concerned that he might not be that much of an upgrade over Kendall, but he will be. Same level of consistency in the run game, but much more physical, and more consistent in the pass game. It certainly doesn't hurt he's coming back to a situation he wants to be in. He's well worth the contract the Skins paid him.

2) Albert Haynesworth is also a beast. I don't know if he's as dominant as I hoped he would be, but he's still probably the best DT in the game. He crushes single blocking except against elite opponents (Hutchinson). He does have a good motor except when he gets stood up on a double team in pass rush - he'll hold up, watch for the scramble and try to block the pass. They did line him up at the defensive RE spot at times, and he made most RTs look like 2008 Jon Jansen by going right over the top of them.

I hope Montgomery steps up his game as a space eater, as I'd love to see Orakpo, a fresh Griff, Haynesworth, and Carter rush the passer. Griff was outstanding last year until he wore down. They need to take care of him like Atlanta has done with Abraham.

3) Jay Cutler. This kid is a fantasy football player's and TV exec's dream. He reminds me of a more accurate Rex Grossman, but with just as many dumb mistakes. The Broncos OL is a cut above any other OL in the league. It's not unusual to see Cutler have 4 seconds to throw the ball.

But his decision making is atrocious, even with the most time of any QB in the league to throw the ball. He looks like a pain-killered-up Brett Favre out there, throwing the ball around with abandon taking more risks than is called for because of his belief in his arm. I think he's got great accuracy and a cannon, obviously, but I don't know if anyone can break him into being a more disciplined QB. When he lines up with the Bears he won't have that dominant OL and that dominant running game that let him throw pass after pass without pressure like he was running a 7-on-7 drill. Not to mention, I think his footwork is pretty bad, but he got away with so much because there was hardly ever any pressure on him.

I think Orton will be as good as Cutler this year simply because Orton will make better decisions with a better supporting cast than Cutler will with a inferior supporting cast.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | May 12, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Those are pretty impressive stats Zz, but they just get counter balanced by unending drive after drive where he's missing open receivers and basically failing the drive.

I'm not saying that's his fault, just that he's failed to overcome it.

I do like Soup for all those reasons you listed. Definitely wanted him over Cutler or god-forbid Dirty Sanchez. I just don't know if it's enough to keep his job if he keeps failing in the W column...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Jesus, could you finda da pope ina da pizza?

I'm so hoping you're rite about Dock. Could be good!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I don't see Campbell as someone who can win you games, but I do see him periodically losing a game.

Fumble, INT, or simply unable to make the play required of a top tier QB.

Posted by: RedDMV

see, that's the sort of 'I hate JC so I'll ignore facts' type of thing I don't get.

We were down 9 to the Saints going into the 4th quarter and Campbell led the team to 2 scores and a win. Against AZ, Campbell led the team to a win with clutch 4th quarter play. Against philly, we were down 14-0 early on, Campbell led us to a win -- in philly. In a close game IN dallas, tied in the 2nd half at 17, Campbell led us to win.

Even in SF, down 7 in the last possession, Campbell led us to a TD to tie it with a minute or so left.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

A mediocre .500 QB at best........

Don't let the door hit you in the azz...

better yet....... LEAVE NOW !!!!

Posted by: unc1dmo | May 12, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

If you watch the teams that have QB's that everyone wants to use as an example of why they are better than JC those teams are good teams with good OL's DL's and position players. Atl, and Bal have other people besides their QB that help them win. Flacco nor Ryan had to win games for them by themselves, they just had to manage them and not make mistakes. If you are looking for Campbell to be Peyton or Brady or Ben look at their teams. Remember, we had Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson, both guys we though did not have what it took to lead a team to a championship

Posted by: ged0386 | May 12, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

do i think campbell will come back ,yes if he makes his quick reads ,scrabbles(when pressured,making up for an aging O-Line) learns how to throw a comeback route throw touch passes to RBs or any reciever within 10 yards,three step drop (not twenty) pick an offense that has not changed(for once)and get a combination(scramble/passing touchdown)equalavent of at least 20 touchdowns!

Posted by: diego99999 | May 12, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Jason,

May I have your job? I mean...how many seconds did it take to write today's "article?" I work about nine hours a day and I think I went into the wrong profession.

Posted by: nativedc | May 12, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"Really? I mean do you seriously believe he rates up there with Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc?"

With Manning, Brady, or Brees? No.

With Rivers, Roethlisberger, Eli, Romo, McNabb, or Cutler? Absolutely, 100% yes. The difference between those guys and Campbell was the level of play/coaching surrounding them.

"The beginning half of the year, you could easily argue it had more to do with Portis than Campbell."

If you want to go that route, in the 2nd half of the year, you could easily argue that the collapse had more to do with Portis than Campbell.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

10 years later...."JC deserves another year, he' such a classy guy!"


JC retires having never won a playoff game..."JC deserves another year, management made him retire!"


Dude isn't that good.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Brass tacks.

Name the QBs in the league that are younger than Campbell and have proven themselves to be distinctly better than Campbell. I can name a couple, that's it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

IMO, the PRIMARY reason the Redskins missed the playoffs last year was that the vaunted 4th ranked defense could NOT get off the field in the 4th quarter due to their inability to rush the passer or stuff the run late.

The coaching staff and the front office know this to be true and addressed the situation in the offseason.

Its also true that the Oline broke down and their was a fall off a cliff between 1st and 2nd teamers, and the WR corps basically sucked as DT and MK failed to meet even the lowest of expectations. ARE is a 3rd at best, and James Thrash is a journeyman gunner on punt coverage. Receiver?? Not so much. It APPEARS as if the OLine depth has been addressed. Time will tell if the new meat will help or not. As to DT and MK, its simple, put up or GTFO.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 12, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

sorry dockery fans...below from the Buffalo press..

ORCHARD PARK — The Buffalo Bills pretty much admitted to making a colossal free-agent blunder Thursday when they waived left guard Derrick Dockery, who in 2007 received what was then the richest contract in team history.

With the free agency signing period beginning at 12:01 this morning, the Bills can only hope that whatever moves they make turn out better than the Dockery debacle.

Dockery signed a seven-year, $49 million blockbuster, a deal that was thought to be overly lucrative for a player who hadn't even been voted into a Pro Bowl during his first four years in the NFL with Washington.

As it turned out, the skeptics were right.

After a decent 2007 season, Dockery's performance slid noticeably in 2008 and the Bills made the decision on Thursday to eat a $5.4 million salary cap hit (he would have cost $5.85 million had he stayed with the team), which in turn enabled them to avoid paying Dockery a $1.75 million roster bonus due in a few weeks.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

The list of contenders who MIGHT be considered noticeably better than Campbell who are younger than Campbell.

Rivers -- yes
Rogers -- probably
Schaub -- no
Cassell -- no, great weapons make for a great season
Ryan -- no (not yet)
Big Ben -- yes. SBs count, but JC stats were better

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

@jesuisunpisser-- Thanks for sharing your observations. Nice post, fresh material. Are you aware this is Redskins Insider and we're not used to that?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I am excited for this season. Excited for JC17, the O-line, the D-line, the WR corps, our punter..... Excited to see what some continuity in this WCO can bring... .Excited about Orakpo, the RT competition, the youth influx at RB, the Roydell Williams pickup.

Hail Skins!

Posted by: AllThatSkins | May 12, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

top of me noggin.. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Each succeeded immediately in a new system...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Name the QBs in the league that are younger than Campbell and have proven themselves to be distinctly better than Campbell. I can name a couple, that's it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:32 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"IMO, the PRIMARY reason the Redskins missed the playoffs last year was that the vaunted 4th ranked defense could NOT get off the field in the 4th quarter due to their inability to rush the passer or stuff the run late."

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 12, 2009 2:33 PM

You're right they couldn't get off the field late in the 4th quarter but don't agree with you reason. Jason Campbell couldn't keep the offense ON the field long enough - way too many three and outs. By the time the 4th quarter rolled around our defense was exhausted.

Posted by: bones21 | May 12, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"If you watch the teams that have QB's that everyone wants to use as an example of why they are better than JC those teams are good teams with good OL's DL's and position players. Atl, and Bal have other people besides their QB that help them win. Flacco nor Ryan had to win games for them by themselves, they just had to manage them and not make mistakes"

Flacco actually made a lot of mistakes that people excused because he was a rook. For instance, he threw 12 INTs in not that many attempts, and fumbled 11 times (though fortunately only lost 2). In a lot of ways, it was a typical rookie year, and the Ravens did well to lose only 4 games.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Agree... and the reasons were the anemic oline depth and the horrid WR corps.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | May 12, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Everybody already knows that the front office doesn't believe in Cambell. They tried to get rid of him twice with Cutler and then again with a unproven rookie. If Cambell has a good season like we are all hoping for he will get resigned just like Deangelo Hall did and he only played a season with us. Im telling you right now if skins make playoffs Cambell and Zorn just locked themselves to be in washington for at least another 4 to 5 years. Lets say that if Cambell doesn't have a good year. Then what I see happening is he will be gone but Zorn will stay. I think the front office definetely believes in Zorn and was trying to get him the perfect fit QB to run his system. Zorn believes in Cambell more than anybody in the front office and Cambell will be ready to go. He knows this is do or die time. The FO put the second half of the season all on Cambell. Last time I checked our denfense was the forth best in the league. It wasn't our defense, it was our offense. Clinton numbers dropped because the line fell apart and the rest of the league caught on to plays. The only way we will make it in the playoffs this year is we will need somebody to step up whether that will be Davis, Thomas, or Kelly. Somebody has to do something. The rest of the league already knows about Moss, Portis, and Cooley. We need somebody else to get in there and cause some problems so that we will be unpredictable and can keep defenses off balance. Make no mistakes about it people we are not that far off. The skins will be on top soon.

Posted by: louloudekdek1 | May 12, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

top of me noggin.. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Each succeeded immediately in a new system...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Name the QBs in the league that are younger than Campbell and have proven themselves to be distinctly better than Campbell. I can name a couple, that's it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:32 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

Ryan, no. He was 3 points better in QB rating and played 1 games vs a top 5 defense while Campbell played 6 games vs top 5 defenses. Though I think Ryan will be better over the long run, the results to date say they are close.

Flacco, no. He hasn't proven on the field that he's better than Campbell. Not close.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Again, and this scenario works if he has a stellar season, but if he refuses to sign, pout, refuses show up for OTAs, etc., they will release him if they can't get the value they want. Whatever that is with Vinny running the show, BTW.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

So if Campbell has a stellar season, refuses to sign a new contract and the Redskins can't get decent value in a trade, they'll release him and get nothing??? That doesn't make sense. If the team becomes convinced that he won't resign with them, they'll trade his rights for the best deal they can get. They hold most of the cards in such a scenario in that, if they don't make a trade, he sits, and there's nothing he can do about it.

Posted by: rbpalmer | May 12, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Let me double check who i'm about to rail....cindy boren

GREAT article miss BORING

did you come up with this while your were on the pot, must've taken a few milliseconds, don't hurt your brain.

make sure to put your finger in the wound like every other woman i've ever known

I'm just sayin...

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 12, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

see, that's the sort of 'I hate JC so I'll ignore facts' type of thing I don't get.

We were down 9 to the Saints going into the 4th quarter and Campbell led the team to 2 scores and a win. Against AZ, Campbell led the team to a win with clutch 4th quarter play. Against philly, we were down 14-0 early on, Campbell led us to a win -- in philly. In a close game IN dallas, tied in the 2nd half at 17, Campbell led us to win.

Even in SF, down 7 in the last possession, Campbell led us to a TD to tie it with a minute or so left.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 2:26 PM


Hold on there, guy. No one is ignoring the facts, much less hating on Campbell.

How before you go and make asinine statements, how about you get a clear understanding where someone is coming from first?

You know, communicate?

And as far as the rest of your post go, all you did was pointing out his better moments - was I wrong when I stated that he tossed drive/game killing INTs versus both Dallas and Tampa Bay?

I didn't think so.

Look, zcezcest1, if you're going to vouch for your boy Campbell go ahead. But just becasue people point out his deficiencies or his 'not-so-good' moments, there is no need to get on the defensive and make ass-backward claims like: "see, that's the sort of 'I hate JC so I'll ignore facts' type of thing I don't get."

See, that's the sort of "I know every damn thing, so I'll go ahead and make a jackass of myself and assume" post I don't get.

Feel me?

FTR (for those who didn't know like zcezcest1), I'm not sold on Campbell, but I don't think he's the problem either. I'm not going to anoint him either as a QB of potential greatness also, like so many here.

Re: Campbell - On the fence, undecided, "not sure"... get it now, zcezcest1?

Wow, If I knew you creamed this much for the guy I wouldn't have spoke on him.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 12, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

sorry dockery fans...below from the Buffalo press..

ORCHARD PARK — The Buffalo Bills pretty much admitted to making a colossal free-agent blunder Thursday when they waived left guard Derrick Dockery, who in 2007 received what was then the richest contract in team history.
=========

Maybe his play fell off later in the year, but early on in the season he was great. Better than Jason Peters. I'll revisit as I continue through the games. 4 weeks in the only reason to cut him was because he was making too much - his on-the-field play was much better than the Redskins had OG last year.

Posted by: jesuisunpizza | May 12, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Is performance measured by wins?

Sonny Jurgenson, widely regarded as the Skins best QB ever, never won a playoff game. (See also: Marino, Dan)

Is performance measured by individual stats?

Last year, JC17 performed better in virtually every statistical measure than last year's Super Bowl winning QB, Big Ben.

All it comes down to really is Snyderatto's opinion. Many Skins fans agree with them that he hasn't done enough. Many don't agree.

It's my opinion, based on emperical evidence (wins-losses), that trying to upgrade at QB is a gamble that hasn't paid off since the Skins started using that as a primary strategy 10 to 12 years ago.

Great job with the defense, Dan. Now fix the O-line, because QB isn't the problem on offense.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

skinsneedagm: "top of me noggin.. Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Each succeeded immediately in a new system..."

Yes and no. Both played better than typical rookie starters in the NFL. With reference to the usual stats, Ryan's definitely the better of the two. He had a better year than Campbell. Flacco didn't.

The difference between Flacco and Ryan seems more subtle. Ryan is a full yard better per pass, threw 2 more TD passes and one less INT. That's not a whole lot of difference over the course of a season. Flacco is definitely a bigger threat to run (Ryan averaged less than 2 yards a carry). Flacco got sacked more, like Campbell, which may explain all those rush attempts.

I think it would be premature to describe either as having 'succeeded immediately in a new system.' Ryan's closer to that description than Joe. But we'll have to see what happens this coming season.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm, seems people who criticize Campbell can't come up with much of a list of guys who are same age/younger and proven to be better.

Why is that?

Because there aren't a lot of guys who are younger and proven to be better than Campbell.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"Is performance measured by individual stats? "

You know where individual stats really matter? Particularly the admittedly flawed QB Rating?

At contract time.

Now you know why we have selfish QBs.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I'm just sayin...

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 12, 2009 2:55 PM

Maybe you should ask the doc if he can adjust the dosage of your medication. The present dosage has you writing things that you'll be ashamed of once you're on the right dosage.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Are you ready for some football.......

Posted by: alex35332 | May 12, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Our D is good and getting better.

Our O may have crested awaiting a rebuild.

We have a few more years of making every game low-scoring and tight down to the wire.

JC is probably a good QB for that, but if he demands so much money that we cannot afford to invest in the O line, we gotta let him go.

I think the WORST thing we could do is overpay QB at this juncture. That would include overpaying to keep JC or overpaying to get and sign Bradford next year.

Posted by: cballer | May 12, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

jesusisunpizza: "I've been watching just about every game of the past year recently (thanks DirecTV Shortcuts), and wanted to chime in on a couple of things. I'm about 4 weeks in to the season..."

I don't know if you're correct, but that was a very entertaining post. You sound like you know what you're talking about...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

:zcezcest1

I'll give you two more: Ryan Fitzpatrick (Cin) and Shaun Hill (SF). Both out passed Campbell late in the season and brought W's to their supposedly inferior teams.

Posted by: bones21 | May 12, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

jesusisunpizza: You sound like you know what you're talking about...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009

+++++++++++++++++
so leave.. you dont belong in this blog...

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Hold on there, guy. No one is ignoring the facts, much less hating on Campbell.

How before you go and make asinine statements, how about you get a clear understanding where someone is coming from first?

You know, communicate?

And as far as the rest of your post go, all you did was pointing out his better moments - was I wrong when I stated that he tossed drive/game killing INTs versus both Dallas and Tampa Bay?

I didn't think so.

Look, zcezcest1, if you're going to vouch for your boy Campbell go ahead. But just becasue people point out his deficiencies or his 'not-so-good' moments, there is no need to get on the defensive and make ass-backward claims like: "see, that's the sort of 'I hate JC so I'll ignore facts' type of thing I don't get."

See, that's the sort of "I know every damn thing, so I'll go ahead and make a jackass of myself and assume" post I don't get.

Feel me?

FTR (for those who didn't know like zcezcest1), I'm not sold on Campbell, but I don't think he's the problem either. I'm not going to anoint him either as a QB of potential greatness also, like so many here.

Re: Campbell - On the fence, undecided, "not sure"... get it now, zcezcest1?

Wow, If I knew you creamed this much for the guy I wouldn't have spoke on him.

Posted by: RedDMV |

See DMV -- not denying Campbell had some bad endings, but both of those were in 2007. If you asked me after the 2007 season if Campbell had proven himself, I'd have said 'no'. He was on a good path, but clearly needed another year.

fwiw, the dallas game, we were down 12(?), Campbell got us to down 5(?) and threw a pass that Cooley should have caught for a 1st and goal at about the 5 (inside of 2 minutes). Cooley dropped it and the next play, Campbell threw the pick. So that dallas game was actually a good effort. Even in the TB game, there was lots of blame to go around including Campbell, who made some clutch mistakes.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

ZZ, also remember that JC's 'glory' was obtained on Portis' league-leading back!

Once the running game slowed, JC was nowhere...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

with all this JC love and he "better stats" then the QB's below.....Question..
Who would you want to be your team's QB in the Red Zone, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Cutler, or JC?
I pick Big Ben..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, the dallas game, we were down 12(?), Campbell got us to down 5(?) and threw a pass that Cooley should have caught for a 1st and goal at about the 5 (inside of 2 minutes). Cooley dropped it and the next play, Campbell threw the pick. So that dallas game was actually a good effort.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:17 PM |

I'm having a hard time with this. He threw a pick and it was "a good effort?" I thought a good effort was where he overcame Cooley's mistake, not compounded it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

somewhere on this board someone said the Skins ranked 24th in Red Zone efficiency? Anyone know where that stat is/from??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

"Is performance measured by wins?

Sonny Jurgenson, widely regarded as the Skins best QB ever, never won a playoff game. (See also: Marino, Dan)

Is performance measured by individual stats?

Last year, JC17 performed better in virtually every statistical measure than last year's Super Bowl winning QB, Big Ben.

All it comes down to really is Snyderatto's opinion. Many Skins fans agree with them that he hasn't done enough. Many don't agree.

It's my opinion, based on emperical evidence (wins-losses), that trying to upgrade at QB is a gamble that hasn't paid off since the Skins started using that as a primary strategy 10 to 12 years ago.

Great job with the defense, Dan. Now fix the O-line, because QB isn't the problem on offense.

Posted by: Alan4"

Again, Big Ben's offensive line was worse than our offensive line.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I think Jason will have a better season in 2009 than 2008, the question will be whether he improves enough to warrant a contract where the team will lock him up for the next 4-5 years.

I still don't know if Campbell will develop into THAT kind of core player or not.

Posted by: leopard09 | May 12, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I'm having a hard time with this. He threw a pick and it was "a good effort?" I thought a good effort was where he overcame Cooley's mistake, not compounded it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

fair comment t-e. Didn't say it was a great effort. Campbell had brought the team back, needing 2 TDs in dal in the 4th quarter, and had put us in a position to take the lead with what could have been a 1st and goal. That's good effort, but not success.

One person I listened to about Campbell's development was Sonny. He said the ability to bring a team back late in a game is one of the last pieces to fall into place for most QBs. In 2007, Campbell wasn't very good on that front. In 2008, he actually did quite well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Campbell HAS done something in this league. I'm jut not sure why so many people can't see it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009

Maybe because most here are like high school kids in front of Madden 2XXX. They only care about "beasts" who get sacks. Who cares if they stop the run? If a team gets running gets 250 yards on the ground it doesn't matter as long as some undisciplined, primadonna runs around getting QB sacks on the few passing downs the other team requires before completely demolishing the Redskins.

On the other side of the ball these same yard apes could care less about interceptions. Really stoopid kids actually say its okay to throw 20 INTs in order to get 20 TD passes!! Wonder why they aren't clamoring to bring in Favre because that's basically what he did with the Jets last year.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I still don't know if Campbell will develop into THAT kind of core player or not.

Posted by: leopard09 | May 12, 2009

Categorically there are only 2 QBs that "fit" your criteria in the league NOW!!? What's wrong with you people? Only Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are considered "elite" and they no longer have any upside. They've already reached their pinnacle.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

was I wrong when I stated that he tossed drive/game killing INTs versus both Dallas and Tampa Bay?

I didn't think so.

yes your WRONG, when a guy throws 6 picks the entire season you can't complain about ANY of them

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 12, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

"with all this JC love and he "better stats" then the QB's below.....Question..
Who would you want to be your team's QB in the Red Zone, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Big Ben, Cutler, or JC?
I pick Big Ben..
Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:19 PM"

I'll go with Ben, but since you picked him, first, I'll go with JC17.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | May 12, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: whughes1 | May 12, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

ZZ, also remember that JC's 'glory' was obtained on Portis' league-leading back!

Once the running game slowed, JC was nowhere...

Posted by: DikShuttle

Jeez, can't give credit where its due, can you? Campbell was good. QB rating into the 90's if I recall.

Do you really think that Portis stopped being effective and Campbell stopped being effective for different reasons?

Or perhaps both of them struggled because our OL was ineffective and Santana lost a step after he strained his hammy? Once teams stopped needing to double Moss, they sent waves of guys at the line to blitz and stop the run. For some reason, they just didn't fear ARE or Devin Thomas or James Thrash.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

you think maybe its because the Skins went 2-6 and ended up in last place? Mystery solved..
+++++++++++++++++++++++


Campbell HAS done something in this league. I'm jut not sure why so many people can't see it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009

Maybe because most here are like high school kids in front of Madden 2XXX. They only care about "beasts" who get sacks. Who cares if they stop the run? If a team gets running gets 250 yards on the ground it doesn't matter as long as some undisciplined, primadonna runs around getting QB sacks on the few passing downs the other team requires before completely demolishing the Redskins.

On the other side of the ball these same yard apes could care less about interceptions. Really stoopid kids actually say its okay to throw 20 INTs in order to get 20 TD passes!! Wonder why they aren't clamoring to bring in Favre because that's basically what he did with the Jets last year.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:31 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

One person I listened to about Campbell's development was Sonny. He said the ability to bring a team back late in a game is one of the last pieces to fall into place for most QBs. In 2007, Campbell wasn't very good on that front. In 2008, he actually did quite well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009

His best game may have been the last where he brought them back twice against a Singletary defense. It was the Redskins defense that lost that one in the very last minute.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Again, Big Ben's offensive line was worse than our offensive line.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 3:24 PM

This is an opinion, based on.... what exactly?

How many starters did the Steelers lose on their O-line over the course of the season last year? What's the average age of their O-line? How many UFAs did they count on to step in and start for them?

This article, which went out of its way to say "I'm not worried about age", says:

The average age of the Redskins offensive line is 32. That's the highest average in the league by a substantial margin. The 2nd highest were the Cowboys, at 30; everyone else is comfortable around 26-29.

I think worry about age was justified last year. Worry about age and injuries is justified this year.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Zz,

As I stated before, I'm not saying that all the problems are Soup's fault. I'm just saying unless he could pull AT LEAST ONE of those close last few games out so he could have a chance in the playoffs he won't be coming back and you shouldn't want him to.

I don't think Snyder or anyone else is looking for a stat generator, except in the W column.

That being said, this conversation would be alot more one sided if he didn't tank (along w/ the team) last season.

.. but he did tank. Again. And why would you want that if he did it this year too?

I see all your arguments as being valid to have him this year. If you have a ditto of '08 in '09 - why would you want that again?! It just doesn't make sense.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

6 picks because he only completed 3 passes the whole year over 40+ yards.. His total yardage for the year was half the average of the top QB's..JC didnt take chances.. Its what Gibbs drilled into him for 3 years...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

was I wrong when I stated that he tossed drive/game killing INTs versus both Dallas and Tampa Bay?

I didn't think so.

yes your WRONG, when a guy throws 6 picks the entire season you can't complain about ANY of them

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 12, 2009 3:34 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

I have to agreewith zest. campbells not a lock but the trajectory is encouraging. The 07 mistakes hurt, but they were 07. He hadn't had a full season starting at the time. Last year he struggled at the end like everybody but he was strong in 4th quarters for the most part. Even the San fran game.

Hopefully we'll look back and be glad the d couldn't hold it in the 4th in frisco as it enabled us to be in position to draft Rak!

In the end jc will make his own bed. If he plays well the media and everyone else will jock him. Then danny will want him back.

Posted by: AdamCr | May 12, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

I think the real reason the front office wants to dump Campbell is that bringing on a new QB allows them to reset the clock on their mediocre .500 record over the past ten years. Going back into a rebuilding mode conveniently might distract some of the suckers round here that in the past ten years they haven't really built anything of lasting football import. When are we going to get tired of the shell game?

Posted by: positiveforce | May 12, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"Once the running game slowed, JC was nowhere...

Posted by: DikShuttle"

Simple solution. Fix the running game. Problem solved.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Anyway - always enjoy a good QB debate... This one did not disappoint. Good points on both sides. I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

And the best Skin QB for my money was Sammy, tho Sonny was pretty darn good, too.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

you think maybe its because the Skins went 2-6 and ended up in last place? Mystery solved..
Posted by: SkinsneedaGM
+++++++++++++++++++++++


Campbell HAS done something in this league. I'm jut not sure why so many people can't see it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009

Is it really that simple?

Not Mike Sellers coughing it up at the 1? Or SF driving the field in less than a minute to kick a FG to win it? Or some guy who no one has ever heard of trying to block a blitzing Terrell Suggs?

Yup, the 2-6 finish is ALL on Campbell.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Again, Big Ben's offensive line was worse than our offensive line.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009

The Steelers were strongest at tackle and weakest at guard and aging at center ... you can see that in their draft. Both tackles are very young and have an upside. The guards are younger and the jury's out.
But they played an entire season and the playoffs together for the first time.

The Redskins lost most of their starting 5 OL (except Rabach) to injury brought on to a great extent by age (mileage in the NFL). How many games did the starting OL of Washington play when compared to the Steelers?

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

PSP,

Wasn't it just that our opponents figured out that's what we were doing? Don't think the run was broke... just matched.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Simple solution. Fix the running game. Problem solved.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009

Given Snyder's fickleness when it comes to coaches and quarterbacks that makes sense! With a solid OL and a young homerun hitter at running back they could still win with whatever QB and coach Snyder imposes on them.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

if we get anything out of our 2nd round picks from last year, JC will be back. if he still only has one legit WR, he will probably be the fall guy again and get jettisoned. which would be a shame. I think Thomas and Kelly (if he's healthy) will step up and this will be a good season

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 12, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

he could pull AT LEAST ONE of those close last few games out so he could have a chance in the playoffs he won't be coming back and you shouldn't want him to.,/i>

Like the key NFC conference game that Kendall lost because he thought he was a running back?

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I did wonder why Gibbs drafted Campbell.

To me, the question was why didn't Gibbs go after Aaron Rodgers, clearly a much better prospect. Rodgers had been in consideration as the #1 overall pick, but the 49ers went with Alex Smith (ooops). Rodgers then plummeted down to 24th overall, just 1 spot before we took Campbell. We got the 25th spot in a trade with Denver. At the time, I wondered why Gibbs didn't trade just a couple slots higher for Rodgers.

In any case, I've been hopeful for Campbell, but refuse to see the guy for anything other than what he is. That is a QB who isn't likely to be elite, but who will be in the 2nd tier -- top 10-ish group. Which is good enough to win a championship (see eli, Big Ben)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

"This is an opinion, based on.... what exactly?

How many starters did the Steelers lose on their O-line over the course of the season last year? What's the average age of their O-line? How many UFAs did they count on to step in and start for them?

This article, which went out of its way to say "I'm not worried about age", says:

The average age of the Redskins offensive line is 32. That's the highest average in the league by a substantial margin. The 2nd highest were the Cowboys, at 30; everyone else is comfortable around 26-29.
I think worry about age was justified last year. Worry about age and injuries is justified this year.

Posted by: Alan4 "


Based on the facts that Big Ben's OL gave up more sacks than JC's OL did. Big Ben was sacked for more yards than JC was. Also the Skins had more rushing yards than the Steeler's did, also the Skins had more rushing yards per carry than the Steelers did.

Steelers had 49 sacks, and went 3.3 yards per carry.

Redskins had 38 sacks, and went 4.4 yards per carry.

That is on the season.


I'm not saying our OL wasn't crap, it was. Yes, we could use plenty of help there, DUH. But you didn't state any facts to back up your argument other than "Well they're old." Peyton Manning is older than JC, too. Think we can trade JC for Peyton? Hell, JC is older than Sanchez and Stafford, maybe we should've done that deal?

All that is beside the point. Read my STATS and FACTS for the 10th time, please. Good god dude, I'd written those stats for you numerous times. Have you just ignored them to continue your "JC > Big Ben" argument, which by the way is a completely stupid argument.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Agreed... if a WR steps up and commands significant coverage that pulls the double off Moss.. I dont think the two Vinnidiots are going to make it happen.. Roydell Williams is the sleeper..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

if we get anything out of our 2nd round picks from last year, JC will be back. if he still only has one legit WR, he will probably be the fall guy again and get jettisoned. which would be a shame. I think Thomas and Kelly (if he's healthy) will step up and this will be a good season

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 12, 2009 3:49 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"Steelers had 49 sacks, and went 3.3 yards per carry.

Redskins had 38 sacks, and went 4.4 yards per carry."

to continue with this :

Steelers had 49 sacks, and went for 3.3 yards on 460 rushes for a total of 1690.

Redskins had 38 sacks, and went 4.4 yards on 478 rushes for a total of 2095 yards.

But you're right, Big Ben's OL was all-NFL and our OL was the absolute worst....

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"PSP,

Wasn't it just that our opponents figured out that's what we were doing? Don't think the run was broke... just matched.

Posted by: DikShuttle"

No, I think there was a categorical difference between when Chris Samuels injured his knee vs. the games prior, when Clinton Portis sprained his MCL vs. the games prior, and when Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen all wore down as the season moved along.

The Redskins running game wasn't rocket science. It was the same scheme we used under Gibbs/Saunders. Clinton Portis wasn't 'figured out.' He was worn down, along with the o-line.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

His best game may have been the last where he brought them back twice against a Singletary defense. It was the Redskins defense that lost that one in the very last minute.

Posted by: periculum | May 12, 2009 3:37 PM

What? That was the 49ers not the '85 Bears. When did Singletary become known for his defensive coaching prowess?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

There's a bigger issue for the Redskins. The rest of the NFL knows how slow our OL is. The real question is: "How prepared are we?" I like the rest of us are crossing my fingers and hope for the best. Obviously it's irritating! The key is preparation.

Posted by: RedCherokee | May 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

OL depth was the key to the wearing down issue.. Very little, if any rotation..
And how can anyone forget the Ravens game when Madden and even the Ravens players were concerned about the well being of who the Redskins were substituting on the OL.
This embarrassment alone, should of propelled Snyder into focusing on the OL in the Draft...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Redskins running game wasn't rocket science. It was the same scheme we used under Gibbs/Saunders. Clinton Portis wasn't 'figured out.' He was worn down, along with the o-line.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 3:59 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

"What? That was the 49ers not the '85 Bears. When did Singletary become known for his defensive coaching prowess?

Posted by: learnedhand1"

I actually lol'd @ this. Periculum got called out for trying to compare the 49ers last year to some great defense.


My god. I don't MIND JC as our starting QB, I think he could win in the right situation (which for the record this is not the right situation) and I like him as a guy.

but my god, some people on here are just ridiculous

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Snyder knew this when shopping JC around last month. And maybe will continue to do so until the October trading deadline.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

Sorry, wrong again! I think you should take a minute breath before you blog. So Snyder will wait until October,just days before season opener, then trade the teams starting QB. Wow! what an opinion. Do you guys just write before you think? Did you ever think about the negative effect this will create in the locker room? Most especially, what will the after effect look like? Would any player actually risk any injury for this team, knowing the mentality of the insane owner? Sorry, Campbell will be the Skins QB for 2010. Franchised or not, I bet he will hit the road after this season, and far away from all unappreciative fans of this team, and I will be glad for him. Colt this season? Forget it, it will never happen. I'm a die hard fan of this team but, on this issue, I hope the Skins owner gets what he deserve; a super year for Campbell, and an immediate rebellion from him after the season.

Posted by: abxinc | May 12, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Give the guy a line, give him a receiver over 6 feet tall with explosive speed and zingo! There's your Stupor-Bowl quarterback.

I don't buy the offensive system crud. End of the day, it's football. Throw the ball, catch the ball. Last year it was purely a terrible offensive line (running backs, even Portis, couldn't go far).

Posted by: Meepo | May 12, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

So is Holmgren going to come in as a GM or coach or what?

Posted by: Meepo | May 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

What? That was the 49ers not the '85 Bears. When did Singletary become known for his defensive coaching prowess?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I think san fran's d is on their way the being something out there in the west. They've spent a lot of money and high draft picks to sure up some spots on their d, lb and cb specifically. They weren't a great d but defifitely a tough d with a tough coach against our ready to go home banged up offense

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

i can see two possible scenarios:

1) JC doesn't improve or improves marginally and he's kicked to the curb.

2) JC has a lights out season, carries the Skins deep into the playoffs and spits in Snyder's face.

either way....he's gone

Posted by: mdrockjock | May 12, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Is Campbell going to be QB next year for the Redskins? Nope. Uh-uh. Not gonna happen. In fact, I expect the team to trade him before training camp starts. For Dan Snyder, the grass is always greener - and he wants anyone's QB besides what he has. Ponder this. What if, through some weird happenstance, the Seahawks called tomorrow and said Hassleback is available. Do you think Dan would hesitate? Well, I think there are about 6-7 QB's like that in the NFL that he would pull the trigger on in a heart beat and not all of them are starters.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 12, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

I think san fran's d is on their way the being something out there in the west.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 4:18 PM

That's what Demetric Evans thinks, too.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Situation #1. He has a very good year. The Redskins Franchise him, and either trade him, or sign him to an extension.

Situation #2. He has a lousy year, and walks...

Its pretty cut and dried. The team has the upper hand in this case.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Not really. If campbell has a great year, he can walk. That's what agents do. If his current one won't, he can find one that will.

Franchise QB's have a lot of clout.

After the disrespect Synder and Co have shown him, he will have to break the bank to keep him if he's good.

But I think Campbell's semi-doomed from the start...to be good he needs Moss to stay healthy, Portis to stay healthy, Cooley to stay healthy, the line to stay healthy and become cohesive and dominant, and at least ONE, mebbe two of the 2nd rounders to have a breakout year.

Snyder has done more to undercut his confidence than thought imaginable. Why would you want to reward that?

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey abxinc..
Where have you been the last two months? Snyder has already tried to trade JC without success.. He couldnt get a 2nd round pick for him according to ESPN. Danny wasnt concerned about JC's fellow players feelings then.. Nor will he be worried about their feelings before the mid-October trading deadline if he gets an Offer to recoup his 3 picks he gave up in 2005 for JC. And you're assuming that JC is the starting QB in October..
If the Skins are struggling anytime between now and the mid-October trade deadline, showing that the 2-6 ending to last season was a sign of future performance versus an aberration.. You can bet Danny will be shopping JC around.. Losing is more of a negative effect in a lockerroom than changing QB's..
And I never said he would wait until October.. That just happens to be the deadline if Snyder still wants to trade him. (by the way, opening day is not in October.. )..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Snyder knew this when shopping JC around last month. And maybe will continue to do so until the October trading deadline.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

Sorry, wrong again! I think you should take a minute breath before you blog. So Snyder will wait until October,just days before season opener, then trade the teams starting QB. Wow! what an opinion. Do you guys just write before you think? Did you ever think about the negative effect this will create in the locker room? Most especially, what will the after effect look like?
Posted by: abxinc | May 12, 2009 4:08 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Andre Smith fired his agent again!I think he could have used some guidance from Chris Samuels had he come here. Not sure the Bengals have anyone to mentor him. He may just be another fat boy in a year or so.

Posted by: will_ga | May 12, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Based on the facts that Big Ben's OL gave up more sacks than JC's OL did. Big Ben was sacked for more yards than JC was. Also the Skins had more rushing yards than the Steeler's did, also the Skins had more rushing yards per carry than the Steelers did.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 12, 2009 3:55 PM

I think we're nearly on the same page. We agree both teams' OLs were crap. The difference is, you think the Steeler's O-line is markedly worse than ours based on sacks and running game statistics.

I think the QB and RB are part of those statistics: Big Ben likes to hold the ball, a lot like JC17 does. And we have a better RB than the Steelers. When the lines were the same, thee Skins and Steelers were both 6-2 In the second half of the season, when our O-line fell apart due to injuries, Portis has only 2 games over 80 yards and JC17 started throwing interceptions. That's not a coincidence.

Our line was worse the the Steelers line in the 2nd half of the season, and the Steelers #1 defense is what carried them to the SB. Not Big Ben.

I can't prove it, but I'm very confident if it were possible to go back in time and exchange the Skins QB and RB for the Steelers QB and RB, the end result for both teams would not change much, if any.

The Steelers O-line was NOT worse than the Skins in the 2nd half of the season. Even opposing teams players were expressing concern for JC17's health when the Skins started subtituting not-ready-for-NFL OLs to protect the QB. And therein lies the major difference between the two teams' records.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

d evans is the missing piece, the straw that stirs the drink

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

After the disrespect Synder and Co have shown him, he will have to break the bank to keep him if he's good.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 4:23 PM

Not really. Guy doesn't want to learn his twelfth offensive system in 13 years, or whatever the numbers are. If he does well, he owes a lot to Zorn.

Snyder can do a bunch of mock apologies and bring him around. If nothing else, he can pull that Abe Pollin/Juwan Howard stunt: send a band to serenade him outside his window. Gag.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

d evans is the missing piece, the straw that stirs the drink

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 4:27 PM

make that the straw that stirs the camel's drink

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

fwiw, I did wonder why Gibbs drafted Campbell.

To me, the question was why didn't Gibbs go after Aaron Rodgers, clearly a much better prospect. Rodgers had been in consideration as the #1 overall pick, but the 49ers went with Alex Smith (ooops).

zcezcest1

I'm not sure Gibbs ever worked out Rogers. Suspecting he'd be a top pick, he didn't look. Probably wouldn't have seen Campbell either if they hadnt' been scouting Carlos down at Auburn and were impressed with Campbell there.

Posted by: TheCork | May 12, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

The way that Cambell has handled this whole situation has been so classy that you would love for him to have a great year and sign a huge contract somewhere else and for him to tell danny boy to shove it. But the truth is the other comment posters are 100% correct he has no leverage. if he has a huge year push come to shove danny frachises him while he searches for his replacement, not to mention the fact no one else pays players like Danny and JC's not spiteful enough to turn down money that no one else will offer him. His highly publicized offensive scheme shuffle just means any team who would sign him would be looking to forfeit the upcoming season because he would be in ANOTHER offensive scheme and who does that nowadays?

Posted by: hondaman579 | May 12, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn would crawl on glass to Seattle to get Hassleback.. (whether Hass is that good or not)..
You cant believe that Snyder totally ignored Zorn when he was going after Cutler.. If Zorn was that much of a JC fan.. Snyder would of never tried for the trade.. I think Zorn is craving a QB with WCO read and release speed. Not double pump/pat the ball twice...dump off short speed..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if, through some weird happenstance, the Seahawks called tomorrow and said Hassleback is available. Do you think Dan would hesitate? Well, I think there are about 6-7 QB's like that in the NFL that he would pull the trigger on in a heart beat and not all of them are starters.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 12, 2009 4:21 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

This is like having an open sore in your gums that you just masochistically pick at and pick at and pick at..Just leave it go JLC, I know its the spring doldrums and you're achin' for that opening at the Times so you can write about the Giants (the mole job here is getting tiresome, I know, Danny and Vinny are just too stupid to provide any useful information- maybe they can be waterboarded into admitting that they are actually Al Qaeda)..shante'..

Posted by: frak | May 12, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

So if Campbell has a stellar season, refuses to sign a new contract and the Redskins can't get decent value in a trade, they'll release him and get nothing??? That doesn't make sense. If the team becomes convinced that he won't resign with them, they'll trade his rights for the best deal they can get. They hold most of the cards in such a scenario in that, if they don't make a trade, he sits, and there's nothing he can do about it.

Posted by: rbpalmer | May 12, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse
=====================================

If he has a stellar year, JC is hoping for a trade, and I don't think there's a figure in Danny's pocket book that would keep him here. So yes, in the case of beast year, he sits if can't get traded (We all know the NFLPA won't let that happen). For argument sake, lets say he does sit, it'll be interesting to see who, if anyone they can get in here. There isn't going to be any decent talent out there that will be a FA. Being 13th in the 2010 draft you'd be hard pressed to find an elite QB left for the pickens. They could trade up, by giving 2011's #1 pic, but we've been down that road before. Again, this scenario is only if JC has a beast of a season (2nd round, NFC title, or Super Bowl). He has a sub-par or mediocre year, he's released.

Posted by: clark202 | May 12, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

138 post.

4,041 votes.


I think some may have voted more than once. Just a hunch...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

JC, like any other QB, needs a good offensive line to excel. the Skins haven't invested much there -- so all the skill and talent in the world in the backfield is going to be marginalized. I'm amazed that Cerrato and Danny don't see this after all these years of mediocre seasons.

Posted by: zwheat | May 12, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

d evans is the missing piece, the straw that stirs the drink

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 4:27 PM

Just scanning, but this must be an inside joke I have missed out on........

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

The way that Cambell has handled this whole situation has been so classy that you would love for him to have a great year and sign a huge contract somewhere else and for him to tell danny boy to shove it.

Posted by: hondaman579 | May 12, 2009 4:30 PM

Why would you want this? This is a masochistic wish. If he does well we want him back, not somewhere else.

Don't you realize that, when it comes to the Skins, your interests are completely aligned with Snyder's? Things that hurt him hurt you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

My hope is that JC doesn't play here this year. He basically sucks, so what's the point in keeping him. Those who think he's good are blind, stupid, and dumb. Zorn is stuck with him because of the "political correctness" of the situation. You know the one. It sure would be nice if a brother succeeded as QB of the Washington Redskins. We can't take him out of the game when he plays poorly because we don't want to hurt his feelings or be called a racist coach.

Posted by: theBozyn | May 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Truth, BTW I've never argued that JC17 > Big Ben.

My argument is they would probably perform roughly the same under similar circumstances. I beleive JC17 could throw 17 TDs and 15 INTs with the Steelers and get to the Super Bowl, too.

Putting Big Ben on the Skins would not make the Skins a SB contender.

Does that clear it up for you?

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Since when has being a Skins fan, not been masochistic? Pain (and the Lions and Texans) are our friends.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why would you want this? This is a masochistic wish. If he does well we want him back, not somewhere else.

Don't you realize that, when it comes to the Skins, your interests are completely aligned with Snyder's? Things that hurt him hurt you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:40 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

I think some may have voted more than once. Just a hunch...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 4:38 PM

No, most posted less than once. I think a lot of people who read this blog are intimidated or are too dumb to figure out how registration works.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

"...an anemic oline depth and the horrid WR corps."

Talk about swimming upstream.

Jason Campbell's evaluation will be made by the very same people who refused to take aggressive steps to fix the singular team element connected to his performance: the offensive line.

It's like being told, "Hey, get more bricks made and damn the fact we haven't given you the straw we promised."

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 12, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

We can't take him out of the game when he plays poorly because we don't want to hurt his feelings or be called a racist coach.

Posted by: theBozyn | May 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse


????? Did I miss something that lead to this?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Or, have no job, have no life, fired or about to be fired..
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No, most posted less than once. I think a lot of people who read this blog are intimidated or are too dumb to figure out how registration works.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 4:46 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

*led?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 12, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

periculum: "The Redskins lost most of their starting 5 OL (except Rabach) to injury brought on to a great extent by age (mileage in the NFL). How many games did the starting OL of Washington play when compared to the Steelers?"

OK, here's what I have:

PITTSBURGH
Willie Colon: 16 starts
Chris Kemeoatu: 16 starts
Justin Hartwig: 16 starts
Darnell Stapleton: 12 starts
Max Starks: 11 starts

REDSKINS
Jon Jansen: 11 starts
Randy Thomas: 16 starts
Pete Kendall: 16 starts
Chris Samuel: 12 starts
Casey Rabach: 16 starts

Stephon Heyer made 7 starts, basically filling in the blanks.

I'm not seeing a lot of difference there.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

There's something a bit deeper within the Jason Campbell supporters...You see there is more too it than just realizing opposing defensive coordinators force JC17 to beat them versus Clinton Portis/running game. i won't go deeper into it cuz if you don't get it,?

It's about JC17 being Joe Gibbs' man, Joe Gibbs' QB of the future. Unfortunately it can be argued that the game passed Joe Gibbs' by and to be quite honest, it does nothing to hurt the guy's legacy anyway, b/c Joe Gibbs still recognized talent.

Anyway, JC17 needs to give Washington a winning record this season--plus dare I say, a playoff win,? no wait.. I won't be so harsh--if he wants to stay here, and to except anything less is borderline insanely simpathetic and maybe you just need to eat some rocky road or go hug your mama like it was just Mothers Day, or better yet, just find another team to like like so many other fans around here because you're both one in the same.

Posted by: Vicc | May 12, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I voted Yes, but I think Campbell will have a good year and eventually will become one of the top 5 QBs in the league...just probably not with this team.

Does that make me a bad person?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 12, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Samson,
As the apologist, I would say that the main difference would be an open receiver or one running a well defined route.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 12, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Just scanning, but this must be an inside joke I have missed out on........

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I do see potential in sf's d with nate clements, pat willis, manny lawson and co. but was kidding bout d evans, though i would still like him round here.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

this thread / article is a certified botch...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 12, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

OK, here's what I have:

PITTSBURGH
Willie Colon: 16 starts
Chris Kemeoatu: 16 starts
Justin Hartwig: 16 starts
Darnell Stapleton: 12 starts
Max Starks: 11 starts

REDSKINS
Jon Jansen: 11 starts
Randy Thomas: 16 starts
Pete Kendall: 16 starts
Chris Samuel: 12 starts
Casey Rabach: 16 starts

Stephon Heyer made 7 starts, basically filling in the blanks.

I'm not seeing a lot of difference there.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 4:53 PM


Here's the biggest difference I see:

PITTSBURGH
Willie Colon: Age: 26
Chris Kemeoatu: Age: 26
Justin Hartwig: Age: 30
Darnell Stapleton: Age: 23
Max Starks: 11 starts: Age: 27

REDSKINS
Jon Jansen: Age: 33
Randy Thomas: Age: 33
Pete Kendall: Age: 36
Chris Samuel: Age: 31
Casey Rabach: Age: 31

Both O-lines were crap last year, but one set of O-line guys (Steelers) should get better with age (and as the season progresses); the other is approaching the downside and are likely to fade (during the season and even game-wise). For the Steelers, Starks took over for Marvel Smith and Stapleton replaced Kendall Simmons early on in the season. That gave them a chance to build momentum together as the season went on.

The Skins O-line, however fell apart just in time for the playoff push.

Stephon Heyer got 7 starts because neither he nor Jansen could play well enough to lock down the RT position.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Way to many gray area's here to speculate anything. There are so many if's that go into breaking this question down. If Campbell has a great year (the only way he has chance of staying a Redskin) then it will all depend on his agent and what contract he uses as a measuring stick. Most "good" quaterbacks are using Rothlisbergers contract as the APEX and Tony Romo's contract extension as the medium. If Campbell and his agent want Rothlisberger money I don't think so. If Campbell and his agent look at Romo money (6 year 67.5mil with 30 million guranteed) and that is Campbells apex earning mark....Then maybe...But why ask this question way too early to tell. If Campbell has a great year then ask the question. If he doesn't have a great year...no need to ask cause the answer will be no.

Posted by: TheReporter | May 12, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

..........shocker

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 12, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Of course Jason Campbell will be back next year. But that doesn't stop Jayson La Blair from doing everything in his meager ability to try and create controversy with this team in a lame attempt to further his pitiful career.

Posted by: Barno1 | May 12, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

alan4

I like the 5:46 PM post. It really starts to prove a point.

Sometime ago, I posted the idea that perhaps the lack of youth on the o-line was the end result of J Buges placing too much value on older players.

Maybe that was a great idea 20 years ago, but today, when you take in to account the speed and athleticism at the defensive end and 'tweener 'backer spots, it's not.

There must be some philosophical reason for depending on scrap players and vets to play the o-line that has nothing to do with the Vin Man's player assessment: Joe Bugel likes older players, plain and simple.

St Joe realized the game had passed him and moved on as he didn't want to make the effort to caught up. One wonders if the other Coach Joe from the '80s has reached that point where it's time he follows Gibbs out the door.

I know this is heresy. But at some point, you have to wonder if J Buges--I guy I totally respect--should be replaced if the line play doesn't improve this season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 12, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

God please let the NFL season arrive soon. I cannot stand anymore non-news and fake discussions about it

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 12, 2009 6:36 PM | Report abuse

See...this is the crap I'm talkin about! Why would Lacanfora stir this up again at this time???

If Jason plays well, he'll be here...if he doesn't he won't!

Posted by: rickyroge | May 12, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Cin,Cin
Here's your answer.
http://www.indra.com/cgi-bin/spikes-8-ball

Posted by: _Stumped_ | May 12, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

See...this is the crap I'm talkin about! Why would Lacanfora stir this up again at this time???

If Jason plays well, he'll be here...if he doesn't he won't!

Posted by: rickyroge | May 12, 2009 7:04 PM

Jasno didn't "stir it up." Cindy did. Jasno's basically on vacation.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 7:18 PM | Report abuse

But there will be a battle at RT this year, and Jansen, if not deemed a starter come the season opener, is a damn good safety valve for any potential injury across the line (recently heard Zorn say that Jansen was taking reps at Center and Guard throughout minicamp.) Plus he knows the offense pretty well... and he's a hard worker, team player.... 110% type of player... can fill in -in a pinch.

I think Buges knows exactly what happened last year, ie, his line breaking down. I think it will be easier for him, Buges, to trust some of his younger players. There are young Olinemen on the team. For some of them, it will be their second year in the offense.

23 - Devin Clark, Scott Burely
24 - Rinehart
25 - Heyer, R. Riley
26 - Will Montgomery
27 - D'Anthony Batiste

And don't forget our own Doc, 29, his roommate, Mike Williams, 29, and Jeremy Bridges (FA Car), all 29.

Tomorrows poll should be,
"Who beats out Rock Cartwright for 3rd string RB?
- Marcus Mason
- Anthony Alridge
- Dominique Dorsey

Just kidding! Please don't talk about this. I hate polls.

Posted by: AllThatSkins | May 12, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Ok OK I got it lets have a new poll.....Do you think Jason La Canfora will be a sportswriter for the Washingtonpost next year?

Now there is a good question!! =)

Posted by: TheReporter | May 12, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"You cant believe that Snyder totally ignored Zorn when he was going after Cutler.. If Zorn was that much of a JC fan.. Snyder would of never tried for the trade..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM"

Wow, talk about naivete. Had Snyder got Cutler, it would have been the end of Zorn, possibly on the spot, or at the latest, at the end of this season (unless Zorn pulled off the miracle of a Super Bowl). Snyder would have snapped up Shanahan in a split-second if it meant he could reunite arguably the greatest offensive mind since Bill Walsh himself with his (Shanahan's) hand-chosen QB.

Zorn may be a candid, nice guy, but he's not dumb. And he has Mike Holmgren in his ear, who most certainly can see through Snyder's man-charm. There isn't a shot in hell I believe Zorn was advocating a Cutler trade. Not in the least. He was as happy as Campbell when the deal fell short. That saved his career, at least for this season.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

alan4: "The Skins O-line, however fell apart just in time for the playoff push."

That's certainly the prevailing belief on this blog. Could be true; haven't checked it out yet. Have to see if the data is available.

alan4: "Stephon Heyer got 7 starts because neither he nor Jansen could play well enough to lock down the RT position."

That would be untrue. Heyer won the starting RT role in preseason, then got hurt. Jansen took over and the Skins started 6-2. Zorn awarded Jansen the starting job based on his performance (and the line's to that point), and Heyer became a backup again. Heyer played in only 9 games last season and started 7 of them, including the final three (Cincy, Philly, & SF). Jansen was available for 14 games and started 11 times (of the final 3, only SF). Chris Samuels' season ended after the Baltimore loss in week 14. It was the first time he'd missed a start since 2003.

You had the ages right, though, I think.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Come on, he's not that good of a quarterback. How many season's has he been in the Redskins system. Even if it was with different coaches a good quarterback would have made the adjustments. I don't think he can read the defense so he makes a lot of short passes that eliminate that problem. That why the Redskins can never go down the field near the end of the game to score the winning touchdown.

Posted by: cjride | May 12, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Because he was QB of a team that went from from first place to last place in the span of 8 games last year. The only person that can prevent these questions is JC. And it is the number one issue at Redskins Park (whether it should be or not).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

See...this is the crap I'm talkin about! Why would Lacanfora stir this up again at this time???

If Jason plays well, he'll be here...if he doesn't he won't!

Posted by: rickyroge | May 12, 2009 7:04 PM

Jasno didn't "stir it up." Cindy did. Jasno's basically on vacation.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 12, 2009 7:18 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 8:17 PM | Report abuse

"The Skins O-line, however fell apart just in time for the playoff push."

Samson151: That's certainly the prevailing belief on this blog. Could be true; haven't checked it out yet. Have to see if the data is available.

My, my. Short memory. Both tackles were lost to injury by theRavens game, at which time we were still 7-5. You don't think that's playoff push time? You may recall (if you click the link) DE Terrell Suggs looked at who was blocking and said, "I actually pointed at Jim Zorn and said, 'You can't do this, you're going to get your quarterback hurt.''

"Stephon Heyer got 7 starts because neither he nor Jansen could play well enough to lock down the RT position."

Samson151: That would be untrue. Heyer won the starting RT role in preseason, then got hurt. Jansen took over and the Skins started 6-2.

I'm incorrect on the exact number of games. Your argument notwithstanding, however,if either of them played well enough to lock down the RT position, why is that position now "wide open" this year, even though the competition are castoffs clearly not wanted by other teams? I'd wager with you neither one of them will be starting at RT once the season is underway.

The Jansen vs Heyer competition isn't exactly Kobe vs LeBron. Clearly, the RT position is in flux because neither one of them is consistent.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Last I heard Shanahan was as unavailable to Snyder (prefers Dallas..JJ is a close friend) as Hasselbeck is unavailable to Zorn. But we can all guess and things can change quickly with the return of the old impulsive Snyder (Gibbs-less version).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wow, talk about naivete. Had Snyder got Cutler, it would have been the end of Zorn, possibly on the spot, or at the latest, at the end of this season (unless Zorn pulled off the miracle of a Super Bowl). Snyder would have snapped up Shanahan in a split-second if it meant he could reunite arguably the greatest offensive mind since Bill Walsh himself with his (Shanahan's) hand-chosen QB.

Zorn may be a candid, nice guy, but he's not dumb. And he has Mike Holmgren in his ear, who most certainly can see through Snyder's man-charm. There isn't a shot in hell I believe Zorn was advocating a Cutler trade. Not in the least. He was as happy as Campbell when the deal fell short. That saved his career, at least for this season.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 7:33 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 8:35 PM | Report abuse

It's something of a mystery why 3 smaller WRs from that class (Avery, Jackson, and especially Royal) flourished, while only one of the bigger receivers (Jordy Nelson) made a dent. Kelly's problem was injury, but what about James Hardy (6'6") and Limas Sweed (6'4")?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 10:30 AM
====================

antonchigurh: "Cutler and McNabb weren't significantly better than Campbell and Edwards. That's patently ludricous."
Slow down, Chico.
In terms of the QB rating -- they're all in the same range. Compared to Aaron Rodgers, who's rating is much higher (as you pointed out). If Rodgers' QB rating is evidence of his ability, then the same should apply to the others.
"At one point it was an argument about how 1st year WRs tend to do well when they find themselves in an environment with a good QB and an established offensive system."
I'm not arguing about that -- or anything else. Just pointing out what I believe to be a weakness in the explanation you provided.
"Then you morphed it into something about QB inexperience and then something else about QB ratings in order to try and wriggle free."
Wriggle free of what? The explanation you put forth -- that the three WRs, DeSean, Royal, and Nelson -- succeeded because of better QBacking -- has a couple holes in it. I just pointed those out. Since I didn't take a position, there's nothing to wriggle free of.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 11, 2009 9:03 PM

From your second post (9:03 PM): "Since I didn't take a position ..." ??? Read your first post (10:30 AM). Your position was "It's something of a mystery why 3 smaller WRs ...". What you were referring to as a "mystery" isn't one if you think about it and realize that the main reason why some 2008 WR rookies did well was because they were in established O systems with good QBs. Bringing in "inexperience" and "QB ratings" was irrelevant to the question at hand. Anyone would be hard pressed to argue that Cutler, McNabb and Rodgers are not good passing QBs operating in established O systems, all of which makes it much easier for a 1st year WR to excel.

BTW, what's with this "Chico" stuff (9:03 PM post)? It's not my name, but instead of having the commom courtesy to address me by my name you chose to use the slang term for a Mexican male in a demeaning way by addressing me as such when you wanted to blast me for failing to understand your fallacious reasoning. That's an ethnic slur to Hispanics everywhere, plus we should be able to disagree without resorting to name calling. In any case, you could benefit from some diversity sensitivity therapy.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 12, 2009 8:37 PM | Report abuse

My brother's name is chico, he's no scumbag so don't be offended

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 12, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Ok OK I got it lets have a new poll.....Do you think Jason La Canfora will be a sportswriter for the Washingtonpost next year?

Now there is a good question!! =)

Posted by: TheReporter | May 12, 2009 7:29 PM

Seeing how you mostly use punctuation marks to make smiley faces I'm guessing you're not really a reporter.

Posted by: mack1 | May 12, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

Jason C. has been very good on occasion, but usually only plays like an average QB. If he has a break-out year he will be back but if he plays like he did this past season he will not.

Posted by: MReilly9 | May 12, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

WHO CARES??? I say let's only focus on defense and have the most unstoppable D in the league. That coupled with a great field goal kicker and we are in the playoffs and sb...If nobody scores and we can kick then we win! Offense is over-rated!

Posted by: scottpapex | May 12, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

"You cant believe that Snyder totally ignored Zorn when he was going after Cutler.. If Zorn was that much of a JC fan.. Snyder would of never tried for the trade..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM"

Wow, talk about naivete. Had Snyder got Cutler, it would have been the end of Zorn, possibly on the spot, or at the latest, at the end of this season (unless Zorn pulled off the miracle of a Super Bowl). Snyder would have snapped up Shanahan in a split-second if it meant he could reunite arguably the greatest offensive mind since Bill Walsh himself with his (Shanahan's) hand-chosen QB.

Zorn may be a candid, nice guy, but he's not dumb. And he has Mike Holmgren in his ear, who most certainly can see through Snyder's man-charm. There isn't a shot in hell I believe Zorn was advocating a Cutler trade. Not in the least. He was as happy as Campbell when the deal fell short. That saved his career, at least for this season.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

Where in the hell do people come up with this stuff???????

What were you in meetings with the owner and then out to dinner with Zorn and Holmgren?????

Are you always at Redkins park behind closed doors and know what the owner ...who hired the coach btw....thinks of his coach??? And where do you come up with an idea of some conspiracy that the owner is against his coach and Zorn and Holmgren against the owner???

This has no factual basis whatsoever

Are you for real??? LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | May 12, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

What were you in meetings with the owner and then out to dinner with Zorn and Holmgren?????

Are you always at Redkins park behind closed doors and know what the owner ...who hired the coach btw....thinks of his coach??? And where do you come up with an idea of some conspiracy that the owner is against his coach and Zorn and Holmgren against the owner???

This has no factual basis whatsoever

Are you for real??? LOL

Posted by: leevi98

Leevi -- while none of us "know" what went on during the Cutler trade days, its still pretty clear that Zorn's opinion carried about as much weight as yours does. Zorn knows Danny disposes of coaches pretty easily and often. With the league's highest payroll, Zorn knows the deal. Win now or be gone. A new QB, who didn't play better than Campbell in 2008, wasn't the answer and Zorn knew that. And if that wasn't clear with Cutler, it had to be made clear with Sanchez. No way Zorn wanted that to happen. Would Zorn want to start a rookie behind a poor OL with his job on the line? Not a prayer. Would Campbell want to play for the Skins knowing he was a placeholder? Not a chance.

Bottom line Leevi, is that you don't need to be inside the walls to understand that Zorn didn't have much say in any of this.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

He seemed to be quite sure of his sources and facts.. Maybe he does work at Redskins park.. Or, knows Shanahan personally and that Shanny just cant wait to work for Snyder if Cutler was acquired... Just like Spags who couldnt get away fast enough from Redskins Park after the interview last year.
Probably after being told he would have no say in personnel decisions as the Redskins Head Coach..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Where in the hell do people come up with this stuff???????

What were you in meetings with the owner and then out to dinner with Zorn and Holmgren?????

Are you always at Redkins park behind closed doors and know what the owner ...who hired the coach btw....thinks of his coach??? And where do you come up with an idea of some conspiracy that the owner is against his coach and Zorn and Holmgren against the owner???

This has no factual basis whatsoever

Are you for real??? LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | May 12, 2009 9:04 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

"Both tackles were lost to injury by theRavens game, at which time we were still 7-5. You don't think that's playoff push time?"

Hmmm? I wasn't questioning the timing; I was questioning whether or not there was a way to demonstrate that the o-line really 'fell apart', other than asking people for their opinions. I know most people here think that it did, so that's worth something. But really, were there any objective measures that support it? I don't know. The big problem would be getting hold of enough relevant data to discuss it in any but subjective terms.

alan4: " DE Terrell Suggs looked at who was blocking and said, "I actually pointed at Jim Zorn and said, 'You can't do this, you're going to get your quarterback hurt.''

OK, that would be one guy's opinion -- Terrell Suggs, who was there at the time. That applies to one game. But the problem is, O-lines (or defensive backfields, or pass rushes, or special teams) periodically have bad games all during a season. If we were going to make a real analysis, we'd have to answer questions like: if the o-line was so awful, how'd this team beat the Eagles 10-3? The Eagles being an outstanding defensive club that was rounding into a playoff run. If you recall, during Gibbs I there were several games where the Hogs got positively embarrassed (remember the 'body bag' game?) Yet it was something of an aberration.

alan4: "I'm incorrect on the exact number of games. Your argument notwithstanding, however,if either of them played well enough to lock down the RT position, why is that position now "wide open" this year, even though the competition are castoffs clearly not wanted by other teams?"

You suggested that neither won the position last season. I just pointed out that Heyer won it coming out of camp, and Jansen won it through solid play in relief of Heyer. But by the end of last season, neither was playing particularly well, right? So it's an open competition coming into this season. Obviously the Skins think one of the new guys will win it this year. So I wouldn't take your bet.

Things change over the course of a season.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey leevi....lighten up.

This is a sports blog. By definition it's supposed to be full of BS.

Posted by: bones21 | May 12, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

I think that Zorn, who is considered in the top 5 of QB coaches, actually would of had
more job security with Sanchez to tutor and mold than he does with JC. He and JC have shown what they can and cannot do last year.

Going from first to last place in the last 8 games of last year is what got the old Snyder wheeling and dealing, again.. nothing else.. Too bad he isnt spending his time wheeling and dealing for a passable NFL caliber OLine.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Leevi -- while none of us "know" what went on during the Cutler trade days, its still pretty clear that Zorn's opinion carried about as much weight as yours does. Zorn knows Danny disposes of coaches pretty easily and often. With the league's highest payroll, Zorn knows the deal. Win now or be gone. A new QB, who didn't play better than Campbell in 2008, wasn't the answer and Zorn knew that. And if that wasn't clear with Cutler, it had to be made clear with Sanchez. No way Zorn wanted that to happen. Would Zorn want to start a rookie behind a poor OL with his job on the line? Not a prayer. Would Campbell want to play for the Skins knowing he was a placeholder? Not a chance.

Bottom line Leevi, is that you don't need to be inside the walls to understand that Zorn didn't have much say in any of this.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 12, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

who is replacing BMitch and Koken on espn 980?

Why did WapoLive replace Russ Thaler with Ivan Carter? Was he fired, quit?

Posted by: toohoes | May 12, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

"I think that Zorn, who is considered in the top 5 of QB coaches, actually would of had
more job security with Sanchez to tutor and mold than he does with JC. He and JC have shown what they can and cannot do last year."

Your right they showed what they could and could not do LAST YEAR (I hate using caps, sorry) This is a new year, that was one year, the first year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 12, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

I think Campbell just needs to have a good year. The management was correct in trying to get Cutler, he is a special player. Sanchez, who knows? But they are trying to upgrade any position if it makes sense. I admire that. Snyder has proven one thing: he will pay when he sees value. Campbell needs to establish that HE HAS VALUE. I doubt he would be one of those guys who leaves, for less money, to another team just because of a petty grudge. Hell, even the great players have been historically put up as trade-bait. Tomlinson has had some of the best years OF ALL TIME, and he was expendable. But he swallowed his pride and stayed. Campbell is the same kind of guy

Posted by: vincentc | May 12, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

For LOL, that is a trick question, "Will JC be back next year?"

The full implication of that question means, Will JC and Zorn be successful this upcoming season and Offense ceases to be a problem.

That is the real question. If JC and this Offense does not produce not only will JC be gone but Zorn as well.

It is that critical. JC has the talent to be a top flight QC and Zorn's forte is supposedly developing QB's.

West Coast Offense my butt, If JC does not take the next step up in his game and Zorn does not figure out how to facilitate it, then they both might be gone.

But a caveat to that is that Zorn has stay ahead of JC and make his progress to the next level as easy as possible.

If JC is seen as improving his QB play on the field in spite of the WCO and Zorn, then Zorn is outahere'.

Ya Heard Me.'

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 12, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

antonchigurh: "Your position was "It's something of a mystery why 3 smaller WRs ...".

I guess I don't consider "it's something of a mystery" to be a position one way or the other. You came up with an explanation. If it's good enough, and not full of holes, I'll be happy to support it.

antonchigurh: "What you were referring to as a "mystery" isn't one if you ...realize that the main reason why some 2008 WR rookies did well was because they were in established O systems with good QBs."

OK, this is what I think of as full of holes. That's what I pointed out to you. I won't go over the reasons again, but holes it has, IMO.

"Bringing in "inexperience" and "QB ratings" was irrelevant to the question at hand."

Wait -- I mentioned Rodgers' inexperience in order to illustrate that experience might not be a factor, not to disprove your hypothesis. You brought in QB ratings. I just used them to demonstrate that the quality of the QBing might not be as important as you thought.

antonchigurh: "Anyone would be hard pressed to argue that Cutler, McNabb and Rodgers are not good passing QBs operating in established O systems, all of which makes it much easier for a 1st year WR to excel."

I don't mean to upset you, but that seems to me like an assumption, a premise, rather than a conclusion. How do you know that the young receivers weren't helping the QBs as much as the QBs and the system were helping them?

antonchigurh: "BTW, what's with this "Chico" stuff? It's not my name, but instead of having the commom courtesy to address me by my name you chose to use the slang term for a Mexican male in a demeaning way by addressing me as such when you wanted to blast me for failing to understand your fallacious reasoning. That's an ethnic slur to Hispanics everywhere, plus we should be able to disagree without resorting to name calling. "

Doesn't he get called Chico by somebody in the book? He probably drills them with the cattlegun. I don't know, it's been a while since I read it.

As far as fallacious reasoning, I think you have prevailed in that respect. Once again.

So let me know when you do.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

By the way, antonchigurh, why did you choose that particular name to post under? I've wondered that for a while. I can't see any connection to your posts. And it's certainly a name that's fraught with symbolism.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

If we were going to make a real analysis, we'd have to answer questions like: if the o-line was so awful, how'd this team beat the Eagles 10-3? The Eagles being an outstanding defensive club that was rounding into a playoff run.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM

To answer this question, you would have to explore these relevent facts. First, scoring 10 points in a win does not suggest the O-line played well. It suggests the defense dominated.

Our Pro-Bowl RB was still held to only 70 yards on 22 carries (he only got over 80 yards twice in the second half of the season) and JC17 was efficient (18/33, 127 yards, 0TD, 0INT) despite being sacked 3 times and scrambling twice for 28 yards.

Betts had more recieving yards than Moss and ARE combined, which suggests JC17 did not have much time to throw the ball to his wideouts.

Most people who were keeping track think our O-line first got dominated in Week 9, the Steelers game. And pretty much every game that followed, as injuries stated piling up.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

the problem with all of this is that with an average qb we still are not that far off in the nfc. if we win at cin and at home against stl then we are in the playoffs. we really are not that far off from being a very competitve team in this conference.

Posted by: wattsicon | May 12, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

the problem with all of this is that with an average qb we still are not that far off in the nfc. if we win at cin and at home against stl then we are in the playoffs. we really are not that far off from being a very competitve team in this conference.

Posted by: wattsicon | May 12, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

the problem with all of this is that with an average qb we still are not that far off in the nfc. if we win at cin and at home against stl then we are in the playoffs. we really are not that far off from being a very competitve team in this conference.

Posted by: wattsicon | May 12, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

the problem with all of this is that with an average qb we still are not that far off in the nfc. if we win at cin and at home against stl then we are in the playoffs. we really are not that far off from being a very competitve team in this conference.

Posted by: wattsicon | May 12, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I'll second that, wattsicon. And third it, and fourth it...

Posted by: Alan4 | May 12, 2009 10:44 PM | Report abuse

please stop saying that Snyder tried to trade JC. it was Cerrato's decision....he is the GM. Did Chicago's owner trade for Cutler or Jerry Angelo? I don't understand how folks attribute everything to Snyder as if he is the coach, GM, scout, and everything else. I'm sure Zorn and Cerrato had input.

Posted by: tpain | May 12, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Zorn is stuck with him because of the "political correctness" of the situation. You know the one. It sure would be nice if a brother succeeded as QB of the Washington Redskins. We can't take him out of the game when he plays poorly because we don't want to hurt his feelings or be called a racist coach.

Posted by: theBozyn | May 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

OK folks, that's it. No more entries! We've got a winner in the "Stupidest Post Of The Week" contest! And it's only Tuesday!

Posted by: rbpalmer | May 12, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Going from first to last place in the last 8 games of last year is what got the old Snyder wheeling and dealing, again.. nothing else.. Too bad he isnt spending his time wheeling and dealing for a passable NFL caliber OLine.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

fwiw, we never were in 1st. the jints were ahead of us and everyone else, all year.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 11:13 PM | Report abuse

In my opinion this is a big question - does JC return or not. This franchise has invested quite a bit in him - draft picks to trade up, a first round contract (albeit late 1st), and most importantly, time. This will be his third year starting, and his first time ever in the same offense for consecutive years. This is the time where good solid "franchise" QBs step up or step aside. I expect good things from 17 this year. He doesn't need to be Manning, Brady, Brees, which is good because he probably never will be. He needs to manage the game effectively, maintain a solid command of the offense and take ownership of this team. Given some O-line help and contributions from the "red shirts", I believe JC will have a very solid season - e.g., 3200 yds, 20-25 TDs, passer rating around 90 - which should be good enough to make us a playoff team.

HAIL

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 12, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

Where in the hell do people come up with this stuff???????

What were you in meetings with the owner and then out to dinner with Zorn and Holmgren?????

Are you always at Redkins park behind closed doors and know what the owner ...who hired the coach btw....thinks of his coach??? And where do you come up with an idea of some conspiracy that the owner is against his coach and Zorn and Holmgren against the owner???

This has no factual basis whatsoever

Are you for real??? LOL

Posted by: leevi98


---------------


Leevi, I'll be the first to say that what I said was complete subjective conjecture.

But I'm not the first one to think this. PFT "reported" themselves that Shanahan could very well have been on the way immediately following Cutler's arrival (if we were able to acquire him). Now, they're not the most credible source, but their rumors much more often than not have substantial base somewhere (just where, nobody but Florio himself knows).

And Holmgren's comments earlier regarding Campbell, Zorn, and patience tell me all I need to know in regards to how he feels about the situation. He seems to believe, as I do, that Zorn's and Campbell's fates are tied together.

Sorry, but there's no shot in hell I believe that Snyder has undying faith in his offensive minded coach that ran the offense we saw last season, just as there's no shot in hell I believe that Snyder has undying faith in his QB that ran the offense we saw last season. Both are tied to each other because both are tied to their performance next season. And if they don't perform, Zorn won't be here with Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren, Gruden, and Billick all available and sporting Super Bowl rings.

Posted by: psps23 | May 12, 2009 11:26 PM | Report abuse

This was the most dramatic offseason arguably ever in Redskins history.I have been wrapped up in this soap oprah for months now and am glad it's over.The Redskins without argument are an improved team (defense),since the end of last season and I am thankful for that.All of next years draft picks remain intact,and I am thankful for that.I honestly believe that the skin's can compete for the NFC East title,and I am thankful for that.
All of this to be thankful for despite having the 3rd worst owner in the NFL.It must be our year,Snyder did everything in his power to fuc* shi* up but couldnt due to his own mismanagement of draft picks.It's like Snyder has good Karma or something.

Posted by: mark65 | May 12, 2009 11:40 PM | Report abuse

In many respects, the 'great possession WR' is tougher to find that a great big play WR.

The attributes a great possession WR needs are considerable. Great hands, ability to use their body to shield the defender and also to fight for the ball. Enough speed so that the guy can't be easily covered. Mentally tough to take hits, especially in the middle of the field. Physical durability. Ability to make some quick moves to create separation in just a few steps. Precise route running. Good field sense for things like the first down or holes in a zone. Ability to fight their way off the line. Useful as a blocker. Ability to turn and catch since there is very little time to adjust. Ability to make themselves a big target. And the ability to take a hit and hold on.

I've always been a fan of the possession WR. They win games because they are the ones that move the chains.

The Skins search for the next Monk won't be easy because guys like that come along once a decade ... for the whole league. But they are worth pursuing because they create huge value.

There are very few guys who fit the mold of the possession WR and the big play WR. Jerry Rice was a terrific possession WR, so is Fitzgerald.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 11:44 PM | Report abuse

You're kidding right? Nice sarcasm..

Vinny and Zorn are the perfect stooges that Snyder found to allow him full control. Remember, originally Zorn was to be the Skins assistant QB/Offensive Coord coach.. And he hit the lottery when no veteran Head Coach wanted to work for Snyder and not be able to make the final personnel decisions.
Zorn has input but not the final say.. Just looking at who got cut and who stayed at the end of last preseason says it all. All 10 draft picks..and all the other 31 GM's scratching their heads??? At least a 3rd of those picks should of been cut immediately at the end of preseason 08.
Vinny...is really just the head of the Scouting team with an amazing non-GM title.. Executive Vice President of Personnel and Football Operations.. Essentially Snyder molds himself in the form of Jerry Jones.. Owner/GM.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

please stop saying that Snyder tried to trade JC. it was Cerrato's decision....he is the GM. Did Chicago's owner trade for Cutler or Jerry Angelo? I don't understand how folks attribute everything to Snyder as if he is the coach, GM, scout, and everything else. I'm sure Zorn and Cerrato had input.

Posted by: tpain | May 12, 2009 11:03 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 13, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Super Bowl winning QBs. Yes, there are many star QBs in there. But there are also a bunch of guys who weren't great QBs. If I look at Campbell and think about which of the Super Bowl winning QBs he could be equal or better than, its roughly 1/2.
eli, Big Ben, B Johnson, Dilfer, Ryp, hostetler, simms, Williams, McMahon and Plunkett.

The point is that Campbell isn't the obstacle to the Skins being successful, even going to the Super Bowl. If you have a strong team with a good QB, you can go a long way. This team is an OL + 1 good WR away from being a very good team.

2008 Big Ben
2007 eli
2006 Peyton
2005 Big Ben
2004 Brady
2003 Brady
2002 Brad Johnson
2001 Brady
2000 Dilfer
1999 Warner
1998 Elway
1997 Elway
1996 Favre
1995 aikman
1994 Young
1993 aikman
1992 aikman
1991 Ryp
1990 hostetler
1989 Montana
1988 Montana
1987 Williams
1986 simms
1985 McMahon
1984 Montana
1983 Plunkett
1982 Theismann

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 13, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

marke: "I have been wrapped up in this soap oprah for months now and am glad it's over."

Soap oprah. I think you may have coined a new term. I like it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 5:03 AM | Report abuse

"Sorry, but there's no shot in hell I believe that Snyder has undying faith in his offensive minded coach that ran the offense we saw last season, just as there's no shot in hell I believe that Snyder has undying faith in his QB that ran the offense we saw last season. Both are tied to each other because both are tied to their performance next season. And if they don't perform, Zorn won't be here with Cowher, Shanahan, Holmgren, Gruden, and Billick all available and sporting Super Bowl rings.Posted by: psps"

You'd think Snyder the marketer would prefer somebody more recognizable than Zorn. But it looks to me like he got himself into a bit of a PR jam after the Gibbs resignation and Zorn wsa a quick, attractive way out.

We'll see, but I think you're more likely right than not.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 5:10 AM | Report abuse

"First, scoring 10 points in a win does not suggest the O-line played well. It suggests the defense dominated."

Absolutely. Philsdelphia has a very strong defense. Looks like they finished 4th in the NFL in points yielded, 3rd in yards given up and first downs allowed, 9th in turnovers... the Eagles had a plus-3 turnover ratio, and out-sacked their opponents a remarkable 48 to 23. So the Skins' blocking had quite a challenge.

alan: "Our Pro-Bowl RB was still held to only 70 yards on 22 carries (he only got over 80 yards twice in the second half of the season) and JC17 was efficient (18/33, 127 yards, 0TD, 0INT) despite being sacked 3 times and scrambling twice for 28 yards."

Yes, that sounds like a tough game for the offense. Still, not bad given who they were playing. No INTs has to partially offset the sacks. The Skins have a cautious QB, so blocks probably had to be held a little longer than some. The scrambles (both for significant positive yards) suggest he couldn't find an open receiver. There was a lane open, so he took it?

In a defensive struggle, stats tend to look like they did in that game.

"Betts had more receiving yards than Moss and ARE combined, which suggests JC17 did not have much time to throw the ball to his wideouts."

Could be, but we'd be foolish to conclude that without more investigation. The Eagle DBs might have done an excellent job of coverage. The Skins wideouts may have had an off-game. That line, with the RB getting so many catches, looks like Brian Westbrook's line in some Eagles' games. The team may have decided that going to the RB was a good option against that defense (instead of the WRs or TE),

"Most people who were keeping track think our O-line first got dominated in Week 9, the Steelers game. And pretty much every game that followed, as injuries stated piling up."

OK, I thought I already said that. The prevailing opinion on this blog is that the o-line failed. My point is, that's an opinion that I'm not entirely sure about.

One thing I do get, however, is that you and a lot of other folk here are convinced.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 5:47 AM | Report abuse

Just a brief note: for a team with an 8 and 8 record, Washington wasn't bad. Here are the season stats:

TOTAL FIRST DOWNS Skins 295 Opp 259
FIRST DOWNS (Rushing-passing-by penalty) Skins 109 - 165 - 21 Opp 86 - 159 - 14
THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS Skins 76/216 Opp 74/208
FOURTH DOWN CONVERSIONS Skins 10/16 Opp 8/12
TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS Skins 5120 Opp 4621
OFFENSE (Plays-Average Yards) Skins 1026 - 5.0 Opp 933 - 5.0
TOTAL RUSHING YARDS Skins 2095 Opp 1526
RUSHING (Plays-Average Yards) Skins 478-4.4 Opp 398-3.8
TOTAL PASSING YARDS Skins 3025 Opp 3095
PASSING (Comp-Att-Int-Avg) Skins 318-510-6- 6.5 Opp 290-511-13-6.3
SACKS Skins 24 Opp 38
FIELD GOALS Skins 26/36 Opp 24/28
TOUCHDOWNS Skins 27 Opp 32
(Rushing-Passing-Returns-Defensive)
Skins 12-14-1-0 Opp 12-16-2-2
TIME OF POSSESSION Skins 31:30 Opp 28:29
TURNOVER RATIO 0

Just looking at those numbers, they suggest areas to work on. Problem is, every season seems to be fairly different from the last; new leaks spring and need to be patched; past weaknesses become strengths, and vice-versa.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 5:59 AM | Report abuse

Just a brief note: for a team with an 8 and 8 record, Washington wasn't bad.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 5:59 AM

Um, isn't that what 8-8 suggests? You're not bad, but you're not good either.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 13, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Seeing we already know Synder wants to get rid of both Campbell and Zorn, here's to hoping they have a great season, and little Dan is forced to write a very big check to keep Campbell from bolting.

Posted by: vbhoomes | May 13, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

PS - JC sucks, Redskins suck, Haynesworth is overpaid, DHall is only out for himself, Zorn is bland, Snyder is inpatient, Cerrato is an idiot, JLC is a hater, RedDMV is a fool, talent_evaluator has no class, TheTruth is the ****, Devin Thomas doesn't produce, Fred 'Big Sleepy' Davis doesn't produce, Cooley's girl is hot, etc.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Quote from a question sent to Peter King on SI :


"• CUTLER IS NOT THAT GOOD. From Brian of Martinsville, N.J.: "Peter, you stated that "Cutler's a big-time player." Where exactly do you see this? Is it in the late-season collapse last year? Is it in his .500 record as a starter? Is it in the fact that he hasn't led a very talented Denver team to the playoffs, including the year he was spotted a 7-4 start by Jake Plummer? For comparison's sake, Jason Campbell, with a much less talented offense, has a better starting record and actually made the playoffs in a tougher division. Cutler is average.''

We'll see. For an average quarterback, there sure were a lot of teams falling all over themselves trying to get Cutler. You make some valid points, because he hasn't played well late in seasons early in his career. But let's not kill Cutler because the Denver defense gave up 30, 30 and 52 points, respectively, in the last three games last year."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Oh man, I missed a conversation about the Bonzos? Drat, drat, and double drat!

Posted by: Redcoat | May 13, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/13/obama-announce-deal-health-care-reform/


This is gonna be bad....

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:03 AM

No, what's sad is that you get your information from Fox News. That's your first mistake...

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 13, 2009 8:32 AM | Report abuse

"No, what's sad is that you get your information from Fox News. That's your first mistake...

Posted by: brownwood26"

I don't get my information from Fox News. Fox News is awful. But there's no way to spin that they're meeting on health care reform and Obama is pretty open on his stance of nationalized health care.

But you should start checking Fox News. CNN has the best news, Fox News has news that makes you scared to walk down the street, and Yahoo has the worst news that seems like it is written by 13 year olds. I routinely check them all, and Fox News happened to be the first I checked this morning.

But excuse me, please continue the Red State Vs. Blue State crap you were hinting at there. Yawn.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

EVEN WORSE NEWS EVERYBODY


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/12/carter.ap/index.html

"ABILENE, Texas (AP) -- Former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Quincy Carter is free on bond after his arrest in Abilene.

Abilene police say Carter was arrested Sunday night on a probation violation warrant. The violation arose from a February arrest in South Texas for alleged drunken driving.

Carter now plays for the Abilene Ruff Riders of the Indoor Football League. In 2003, he led the Cowboys to a 10-6 season and the playoffs in their first season under coach Bill Parcells.

Dallas released Carter in training camp before the 2004 season. He started briefly for the New York Jets before poor play and drug-related arrests ended his NFL career. The former Georgia star played in the Arena League before a brief tryout last year with the Miami Dolphins."


FORMER UGA STAR AND CURRENT ABILENE RUFF RYDERS STAR!!

I know we got some other Abilene Ruff Ryder fans in the house, right? Where yall at????

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

Relax Truth the DP plan wont work. It takes the worst of the US system and the nationalized systems of the rest of the modern world and combines them. Puts a ton of money in the hands of insurance companies and still rips off the rest of us. They tried to pass the same thing in 92 and it failed.

Ironically the GOP offered universal single payer as a compromise then but the Dems did not want to lose the money they get from big insurance.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 13, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

But excuse me, please continue the Red State Vs. Blue State crap you were hinting at there. Yawn.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:38 AM

I sit on the political sidelines, dude...so you can settle down. Truth is (no pun intended), you're hard pressed not to get slanted news from ANY outlet in this country. If you've got a horse in the race, it's hard to be objective. Fox just happens to be the worst. If you want US news that's NOT slanted, go to BBC.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 13, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Zorn is stuck with him because of the "political correctness" of the situation. You know the one. It sure would be nice if a brother succeeded as QB of the Washington Redskins. We can't take him out of the game when he plays poorly because we don't want to hurt his feelings or be called a racist coach.

Posted by: theBozyn | May 12, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

OK folks, that's it. No more entries! We've got a winner in the "Stupidest Post Of The Week" contest! And it's only Tuesday!

I think you under estimated this would be the "Stupidest Post of the Decade". The fact that people still believe that type of nonsense says more about them than about society. The writer is either a closet racist or a conspiracy nut, take your pick.

Posted by: Deadfish | May 13, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

Speaking of conspiracy nuts, who dropped a deuce in the urinal?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 13, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I didn't realize anything referencing Death Cab for Cutie would be NSFW!! lol.

Is that where the band got it's name? How frekkin' random is THAT?!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 12, 2009 2:19 PM ============================================

That's it, Mr. Shuttle.

How about Hunting Tigers?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 13, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Also.

LET'S GO CAPS!1!!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 13, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Top 5 Owners = NFL @ss kissers

How can Al Davis be the worst owner. To me, he is in my top 5.

4th's Top 5 Owners:

1. Al Davis
2. Mike Brown
3. Green Bay Inc.
4. Bud Adams
5. Mara/Tisch

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 12, 2009 12:41 PM

@sskissers = 17 superbowls

Rooney has more Superbowls that Al Davis ... and a couple of Rooney's Superbowls actually post-date 8-track tapes.

Posted by: dcsween | May 13, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

apparently, an unbeeped beepage

Posted by: dcsween | May 13, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

campbells slow thinking and lack of leadership is his biggest downfall. hopefully he improves on that this year. he had many chances to throw the ball away before he was sacked, pitt game perfect example when he was sacked for 20 yard loss and ran around trying to avoid sack. he could have and should have thrown the ball out of bounds because he was out of the pocket, did that too many times. if he was a leader he would have been telling the o line to hurry up to the line instead of him as well as the oline taking forever in a come from behind situations. that is also the coaches job to teach them to do that. gibbs 2.0 could not even get them to husstle.

Posted by: rls1041 | May 13, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

How does Jason Campbell continue to make the "I'm a young quarterback in this league" claim. Got news for ya bro - you're not so young anymore, and weren't last season either.

It is unfortunate that Jason didn't work out here - particularly because I know with certainty that he will go to another team, with a better offensive line, and REALLY do some serious damage. He's got the arm, the legs, and the mentality. It is our loss that we were never able to keep him upright long enough to make use of his talent.

Posted by: thirdman1 | May 13, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

"Zorn is stuck with him because of the "political correctness" of the situation. You know the one. It sure would be nice if a brother succeeded as QB of the Washington Redskins. We can't take him out of the game when he plays poorly because we don't want to hurt his feelings or be called a racist coach.Posted by: theBozyn"

Zorn plays Campbell at QB because he's all they've got. The backup's 38 and the other two are college spread passers. It's a little like Ernie Grunfeld and Gilbert Arenas -- they're stuck with one another for another year. Doesn't matter much how they feel about it. Might as well make the best of it.

I always wondered how Joe Gibbs really felt about Joe Theisman. I think he genuinely liked Doug Williams and Rypien. I'm not sure anybody knew how to feel about Jay Schroeder.

Like they're always saying, it's a business.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

"Um, isn't that what 8-8 suggests? You're not bad, but you're not good either.Posted by: brownwood26"

You probably just made a funny, but let me respond as if you meant it. Those stats would suggest a better record than 8-8. Even the lack of positive turnovers -- the Skins were only 3 fewer than the SB champs. The big gap in 1st downs, the edge in rush yardage and time of possession -- those usually associate with better clubs.

But the kicker is that defensive rating. Of the top seven defenses, only one didn't make the playoffs (#4, and you know who that is). Dallas at 8 and Tampa at 9 didn't make it either.

Pressure the QB a little better, that was the area for improvement. Well, they've done their best. We'll have to see what happens next.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"If you want US news that's NOT slanted, go to BBC.Posted by: brownwood26"

Yeah but they talk funny, don't they?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 13, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

xxx

Posted by: Fox_News | May 13, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

xxx

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 13, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Campbell's developement has gone in baby steps...he needs to make the big jump from capable nfl starter to playmaker...that's the hardest thing to do, it requires a very big improvement in decision making and risk taking....we should know early in the year if he has made this step...same for the rest of the team...we have been in desparte need of offensive and defensive difference makers...one of the many reasions we flirt +/- with .500 most seasons over the last 15 or so.....

Posted by: OriginalOldschool | May 13, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Friggin' Bill Parcells has to be laughing at us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4164099

Posted by: p1funk | May 13, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

What were you in meetings with the owner and then out to dinner with Zorn and Holmgren?????

Are you always at Redkins park behind closed doors and know what the owner ...who hired the coach btw....thinks of his coach??? And where do you come up with an idea of some conspiracy that the owner is against his coach and Zorn and Holmgren against the owner???

This has no factual basis whatsoever

Are you for real??? LOL

Posted by: leevi98

Leevi -- while none of us "know" what went on during the Cutler trade days, its still pretty clear that Zorn's opinion carried about as much weight as yours does. Zorn knows Danny disposes of coaches pretty easily and often. With the league's highest payroll, Zorn knows the deal. Win now or be gone. A new QB, who didn't play better than Campbell in 2008, wasn't the answer and Zorn knew that. And if that wasn't clear with Cutler, it had to be made clear with Sanchez. No way Zorn wanted that to happen. Would Zorn want to start a rookie behind a poor OL with his job on the line? Not a prayer. Would Campbell want to play for the Skins knowing he was a placeholder? Not a chance.

Bottom line Leevi, is that you don't need to be inside the walls to understand that Zorn didn't have much say in any of this.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 12, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Ok then going by yours and others who answered what I said...i pose the same question in the same way you guys did....How do you know that Zorn was not wanting Cutler or Sanchez? Because you read or heard Zorn praise his QB and that he supports him? What else is the head coach suppose to do? ...how do you know that's really how he felt behind closed doors.

Your answer exactly..You don't know...I disagree that it was obvious that Zorn had no say. Of course he has a say and opinion and evaluation of his team. If he has no say at all...than i have lost all repect for Zorn or any coach for that matter that would take a job just to take it. No coach in his right mind would take any job if he had no say or opinion to be able to give his gm or owner in this case...his evalution of his team and what he feels his needs are. if you really beleive Zorn just sits there and runs practice and has no say at all...your dreaming...iv'e seen Zorns temperment in press conferences...and I don't believe that for a second.

Sorry but this blog has gotten way overboard with the conspiracy theories. People get all that from the fact the team tried to, what they thought could be an upgrade at a position.

That is just crazy :)

Posted by: leevi98 | May 13, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Campbell IS a young quarterback, but the "in this league" tag isn't exactly accurate. Due to the change of systems/coaches during his tenure, he hasn't had the true experience of a seasoned quarterback yet. IMHO, I don't think that giving him just this season to prove his mettle is enough. He's shown enough smarts (see 6 INT last season) in his decision making, as well as the physical tools (25 yard out pattern), to justify a real shot at proving himself, he just needs to build a relationship with his players and play callers. Naysayers can point to Atlanta last year all they want, or Baltimore for that matter. Those results are not common, and only time will tell whether or not those two QBs can be considered NFL elite.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 13, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

leevi98,
How do you know that Zorn was not wanting Cutler or Sanchez?

It's become much like the vaunted 700 page playbook--Zorn has said time and again that it took Hasselbeck in Seattle 3-4 years to pick up the system and accept Zorn's technique and decision making preferences. Why would he want to start over when his job depends on QB results?

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 13, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

And by depend I mean he WILL be fired after/during this year if he doesn't make the playoffs at the very least, maybe take his team past the 1st round.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 13, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Remember JC's undeated season at Auburn. The Tigers played a really tough schedule but ran the table. How?

Rugged defense
Sick RB tandem
Acccurate tough QB who limited mistakes

Do the Skins have those ingredients now? Maybe therein lies the answer.

Posted by: elfreako | May 13, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

leevi98,
How do you know that Zorn was not wanting Cutler or Sanchez?

It's become much like the vaunted 700 page playbook--Zorn has said time and again that it took Hasselbeck in Seattle 3-4 years to pick up the system and accept Zorn's technique and decision making preferences. Why would he want to start over when his job depends on QB results?

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 13, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

I think you should reread what i wrote above. Your missing the pont completely...I'm not saying he does...that was an example.

Posted by: leevi98 | May 13, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is a class act and we're lucky to have him because of his character, but I don't think he's the best QB. We should upgrade next year if we can. The Broncos didn't want him, and Snyder couldn't find any team to trade with. That says it all.

I think the bigger question is whether or not Jim Zorn will be back. I've heard he's a dead man walking, and Snyder will bring in Shanahan or Cowher next season.

Posted by: johnnysullivan | May 14, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I see alot of people here putting alot of blame on Campbell. Quit comparing Campbell to Flacco and the guy from Atlanta Ryan.

Flacco didn't have to win any games last year, sorry, his defense carried him.

The only team JC failed to beat in the NFC East was the Giants, he beat Philly and Dallas three of the four games they played and oh yah, not to mention the NFC representative in the Super Bowl, Arizona.

The second half of the season, the WHOLE team sucked, not just him. Look at Portis states, 142 carries for 492yds. That is 61 yards a game people. I won't even start talking about the Defense.

Example, JC gave them a 17 point lead against San Franciso and a 10 point lead against Cinncinatti and they lost, not because of him, but because our defense could not get anyone off the field on 3rd and 7 or more. They SUCKED, one of the worst in the league in that statistic. Sorry azz teams like Cincinatti ran over them. I do understand that the offense put them in some bad situations, but, not always. Statistics folks are very misleading.

JC is a good QB. Take our offensive line and receivers and give us Tom Brady or Peyton Manning and they would suck.

Moss is a scrub
Randle El is a super scrub
Cooley got taken out of the game easily
Rookies: don't even have to comment on them

Stop all this nonsense, JC will come to play, but will the rest of his weapons. He is a gun, now give him some bullets.

I can't say he will be back for sure or not, especially considering the CLOWNS we have has owners.

You have to develop a system and stick with it. Successfull teams, New England, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, etc have a system and they don't falter.

I will leave you with this, not this last Superbowl that Pittsburgh played, but the previous one, Rothelsberger rating was 27 and they won that year. The QB is important, but it shows you that it takes a TEAM to win, not individual players.

Posted by: sputnee | May 15, 2009 3:25 AM | Report abuse

First of all, Campbell will be Campbell, meaning that he will not be all that impressive despite the contract year. In fact, I expect Colt Brennan to have a better pre-season than Campbell. So for him to come back is a fore gone conclusion, he will basically will have no place to go!

Posted by: DuhHumanity | May 15, 2009 4:04 AM | Report abuse

JC will not be back next year. Here are the reasons why. Let's say he has a phenominal year and gets 2 games deep into the playoffs. Snidley will not offer the contract extension until after the fact, thus indicating how much he loves JC. In addition, the contract will be front loaded and purely performance based and not enough money. Secondly, I don't care how you put it but if you shop me once, shame on you. Shop me twice, shame on me. Regardless of the face JC puts on for the media and sportsmanship business savy individual he portrays in front of the cameras and front office he has been spurned, and spurned twice in less than a month. With all that said please don't forget that Snidley is already personally picking roses to date his next QB that is projected to go in the first 5 picks of next years draft or Brett Farve if he's available. Let's just say that none of that plays out.... Zorn will also be in the wind as well and with Shananhan coming in or possibly Bill Cowher - then they come with their own QB's as part of the deal. I love JC - but lets face it, the 2010 season......... He's outta here!

Posted by: Skinned | May 15, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

campbells slow thinking and lack of leadership is his biggest downfall. hopefully he improves on that this year. he had many chances to throw the ball away before he was sacked, pitt game perfect example when he was sacked for 20 yard loss and ran around trying to avoid sack. he could have and should have thrown the ball out of bounds because he was out of the pocket, did that too many times. if he was a leader he would have been telling the o line to hurry up to the line instead of him as well as the oline taking forever in a come from behind situations. that is also the coaches job to teach them to do that. gibbs 2.0 could not even get them to husstle.

Posted by: rls1041 | May 13, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Hey RLS1041 - you have to be outside the tackles on either side to throw the ball away without it being called intentional grounding. If you're running around 20 and 30 yards behind the line of scrimmage you still have to be outside the tackles or penalty and loss of down.

Posted by: Skinned | May 15, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

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