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The Coordinators

Wanted to present some context to the Jim Zorn/Greg Blache hiring, as it is a typical case of negotiating, Redskins style. Checked in with some sources over the last week to get more details on how it all went down.

As we reported last Wednesday, owner Daniel Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato interviewed Zorn, the longtime Seattle QB coach, for Washington's offensive coordinator position at Snyder's home. Head coaching candidates Gregg Williams (at that time), Jim Fassel and Ron Meeks all had Zorn atop their list of potential coordinators with Snyder and Cerrato making it known that Al Saunders, then associate head coach - offense, and QB coach Bill Lazor were in jeopardy of being ousted. (Jim Mora, a candidate who withdrew, has Greg Knapp atop his coordinators list, league sources said). Williams' first choice was to retain Saunders and streamline his 700-page playbook, much as defensive coaches simplified and streamlined their system following the 2006 season, league sources said.

After the interview session Zorn was offered a three-year contract, with no out clause in the first year, according to league sources. He balked at taking the job, though flattered by the offer, because he had no idea who the head coach would be. Snyder and Cerrato never mentioned it. At that time he was told the HC would be "Gregg Williams, Jim Fassel or Ron Meeks, in no particular order," league sources said.

Zorn flew back to Seattle to meet with Seahawks officials, as we reported at the time, and tried to secure more stability there. Seattle Coach Mike Holmgren would be retiring after the 2008 season and multiple league sources continue to tell me that Mora, a Seattle assistant, is in line to replace him. Zorn and his family love the Seattle area - he was a star QB for the Seahawks dating back to their expansion days in 1976 - though the chance to live near his best friend and longtime teammate Steve Largent, a former congressman and current DC lobbyist, was strongly in D.C.'s favor.

Once back in Seattle, Zorn met with his family and Seahawks brass a couple of times, seeing what made most sense. Holmgren wanted to convince him to stay, league sources said, but Mora might favor another West Coast Offense disciple, Knapp (currently with Oakland), as his potential offensive coordinator if he gets the Seattle job, sources said. So it was highly suspect whether Zorn would get the OC job there in another year.

At the same time, Snyder/Cerrato were bidding against themselves (same old story there). League sources said they made multiple additional offers to Zorn once he returned to Seattle - the Redskins suddenly pulled back on hiring Fassel that Wednesday night amid a flood of backlash after coming ever-so-close to giving him the job that night. They could not land Rex Ryan, Fassel's top choice as defensive coordinator. They were denied permission to interview San Diego QB Coach John Ramsdell.

Things were getting a little desperate and the scrutiny by fans, players, the media - to say nothing of the rest of the league's scouts, execs and coaches - was beyond intense. The Redskins ultimately gave Zorn an offer he could not refuse. There was no chance of luring Ryan as a defensive coordinator - the Ravens could block him and ultimately gave Ryan a new multi-year contract. (Snyder's impact on soaring coaching salaries around the league is no small thing.) With teams able to block lateral moves for other possibilities, the Redskins went in-house (for the sake of continuity, of course, although Ryan runs a 3-4 defense and if the Redskins had landed both coordinators they courted, there would been massive changes on both sides of the ball).

Snyder/Cerrato turned to Greg Blache last Friday, the same day Zorn agreed to his deal. Blache had told players, coaches and people around the league that he was ready to retire and was waffling on even remaining as defensive line coach. He was hunting at his cabin in Wisconsin and, by all accounts, was ready to check out with no interest in a promotion and disillusioned by Washington's drawn-out process. He was fully vested in his coaching pension and enjoying life with one year left on his existing contract. Then, according to those who have talked to him, Blache was given an offer he simply could not refuse and assumed Williams's position atop Washington's defense. So that's how you end up with two coordinators and no head coach.

I have never met Zorn, but I've known Blache for four years and I like him a lot. He doesn't care what anybody says or thinks and is unabashedly old school. (Reminds me of former LB Coach Dale Lindsey, who was fired after the 2006 season, in many ways.) Blache stopped talking to the media a few years back - from 2004-2005 I thought he was about the best quote on the team: candid, harsh, funny, revealing, honest. But he just didn't want to play the game anymore and isn't a self-promoter. I respected his decision. There is nothing phony about the guy.

But I gotta tell you, from a hardcore drill sergeant perspective, this guy makes Williams look like Mr. Magoo. He's a well-respected football man and elite coach and he can be abrasive and headstrong and unrelenting and harsh. (All things apparently held against Williams.) League sources tell me Blache would not take the job unless he had been promised a heavy sway in retaining the staff he wanted, hiring any replacements necessary and keeping the players he wants back. This isn't the kind of guy you mess with, even if you just stuffed his pockets beyond all expectations.

So that will be an interesting dynamic to watch. Blache began contacting players and coaches last week and made it clear he was no pawn. But it's also interesting to note that, especially for any defensive head coaching candidate (Meeks and Steve Spagnuolo), the Redskins have already created a possible problem. Blache swings a big stick, so do you answer to him or the head coach? He's already interviewing for openings on his staff and communicating ideas to personnel before the head coach has been named, with the backing of ownership.

Again, all of this is highly unusual. An offensive head coach would have far less expertise on the defensive side and would likely defer to the defensive coordinator, but would no doubt want some higher authority than him on such issues in case of dispute. Again, who do the players on that side of the ball answer to?

If the Redskins get the right coach and get off to a fast start, well, a lot of this might amount to nothing. But if not, well, let's just say that people will be talking.

By Jason La Canfora  |  February 1, 2008; 10:50 AM ET
 
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Comments

First?

Posted by: sheidt99 | February 1, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

edible underwear

Posted by: RambleOn | February 1, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Tree house closed down. Daggar and MV Dame vanquished. Mystery revealed late.

Posted by: dcsween | February 1, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

from the last thread:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3225539

Posted by: jm220 | February 1, 2008 10:15 AM

Why is there a bunch of politician's looking at this thing? Shouldn't they be concerning themselves with more important things like, for example, the meltdown of the global economy??? This is pathetic, just pathetic. The matter has been dealt with by the NFL. Now let it lie.

Posted by: tartanskin | February 1, 2008 10:28 AM

The corruption of the largest anti-trust business in the United States is absolutely a big deal, and absolutely Congress' business.

Posted by: psps23 | February 1, 2008 11:03 AM

Posted by: psps23 | February 1, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

The answer is simple. Let Danny be the Head coach. Unle Jun the GM, Snider the HC...BRILLIANT!

Posted by: dealer | February 1, 2008 11:04 AM | Report abuse

as has been posted before, Snyder will NOT hire a defensive HC. it's all posturing at this point.

Posted by: RambleOn | February 1, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

for all the rookies uncle june is a reference to vinny cerrato whom a limo driver callred corrado as in uncle junior from sopranos...

Posted by: dealer | February 1, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I have found this top secret video of Dan Snyder introducing the new Redskin's Coach! Jim Fassell looks different wearing a "storm trooper" helmet. Dan look much taller wearing war paint. This definitely is the "big splash" Dan wants!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRZ5aQQ886I

Posted by: jimwell | February 1, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Anyone know what happened to the Coach Tracker thing?

Posted by: HokiePaul | February 1, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I'm a little confused on the whole Fassel thing. If Snyder is considering hiring him because he was a Super Bowl HC, why wouldn't you also consider the guy that beat him in the SB, Brian Billick? I'm not saying I would ever want Billick as a HC, but it seems to me that Billick beat Fassel in the SB, so that would make him slightly better, correct? Once again, I would never want Billick, but the whole Fassel thing still makes no sense to me! Also, I saw Ocho Cinco on NFL Network yesterday telling Mariuci to "take him with him where ever he goes." Ocho Cinco was acting like he knew something and wanted to go along for the ride, that would be AWESOME!

Posted by: harrisso | February 1, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

there is no anti-trust exemption with football in regards to its league structure, baseball is the only one that has the exemption

Posted by: ledbettr13 | February 1, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

Jasno, you act like it's a bad thing that the 'Skins are willing to spend big on coordinators. Why?

I'd rather have an owner who makes "offers that cannot be refused" than one who makes offers that are laughed off. Coaching is the big element of team costs that is not subject to a salary cap. Good for Dan Snyder for spending big to make the 'Skins better. This money comes out of his pocket, not yours.

And if he's had an effect on coaches' salaries throughout the league, I think that's good too. Don't coaches earn the money? Should owners act in concert to hold down coaches' salaries? Coaches aren't in unions like players and they have to bargain for all they can get.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

They like Fassel because he was extremely successful in the NFC East (30-19-1) overall successful, two time coach of the year, and yeah got to a super-bowl. Billick got to the superbowl with a legendary defense but by all accounts under-achieved, his players mutinied, and if he had ever put together a decent offense he would have had a Patriots type run with that D. Fassel achieved success in the toughest division in football and overachieved for all but his final year and was well liked by his players, he is by far a better candidate.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 1, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

i saw billick yesterday on inside the nfl. i had always taken him for an idiot and just kinda always lucky to have success because of the defense he had. watching him yesterday though, he completely turned around my opinion of him. i still don't know how i feel about him tactically, but hearing him speak, you can tell he has that "it" quality of leadership. he's very intelligent, well-spoken, and above all confident. he has that sense of authority in his voice, like he always knows what he is talking about, and when he talks, you believe in what he believes in. I actually think he would be a great fit for this team right now, given the structure that's already in place. I feel weird saying it, but I actually started to like Billick as a prospect. To me, he seems like the type of coach Jim Fassel would be like, only he would be better in every aspect.

Posted by: psps23 | February 1, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

not to say that he is actually a prospect for us. just that i actually started to like billick as a coaching prospect in general.

Posted by: psps23 | February 1, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Jasno--

What sort of bias would cause you to write this piece of foolishness: "At the same time, Snyder/Cerrato were bidding against themselves (same old story there). League sources said they made multiple additional offers to Zorn once he returned to Seattle"?

Have you ever negotiated for anything more expensive that your Honda Odyssey? When you made multiple offers, were you "bidding against yourself" or were you negotiating? Or did you just go in and pay sticker price?

When you make multiple offers to a person, isn't this usually referred to as "negotiation"? Why do you see this a bidding against themselves? This wasn't an auction. It was trying to convince a man to give up a job that he was already happy in.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if I like the idea of Ocho Cinco in a redskins uniform. He's got a pretty strong personality and Jason is still a young, relatively inexperienced guy. But if we're gonna do it, let's do it quick so that they can get on the practice field together and start getting to know each other in a meaningful way (you know, like when we actually have an offensive system in place).

Of course, there's nothing like having a HC these days. I'll put my peso down on Mooch.

Posted by: sheidt99 | February 1, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Re: Billick

Never had a QB worth a spit. Managed to win a Super Bowl anyway. That's pretty good. Not sure where you lay the blame with that. He wanted that guy in the draft (strong arm, not much else) but never was able to develop him. Maybe he would be good for Jason. Not sure but I like him better than I thought I would.

Posted by: sheidt99 | February 1, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

They like Fassel because he was extremely successful in the NFC East (30-19-1) overall successful, two time coach of the year, and yeah got to a super-bowl. Billick got to the superbowl with a legendary defense but by all accounts under-achieved, his players mutinied, and if he had ever put together a decent offense he would have had a Patriots type run with that D. Fassel achieved success in the toughest division in football and overachieved for all but his final year and was well liked by his players, he is by far a better candidate.

Posted by: zjfr2 | February 1, 2008 11:21 AM

Uhhh, the NFC East stunk when Fassel was the coach. It was Philly, the NYG and two 5-11 type of teams most years.

Posted by: cworrall | February 1, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

i always thought Billick was a smart guy. Who out there thinks he would be a terrible fit for us? Was Randy Moss the only reason his offense had success in Minn.? Cuz he sure as hell didnt do sh!t in B-More. Then again....he never had a Qb worth cheering for. Billick remains a strong candidate IMHO.

HAIL!!

Posted by: GimmyDatPot | February 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Jason, I've never posted before, but this post is exactly why I read your blog. You provide the best behind the scenes coverage I have seen, and help to give us junkies a great eye into how the Redskins are run. Thank you so much for your constant updates on the insanity that is the Skins.

Posted by: smo06 | February 1, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

guys, don't kill the messenger! JASNO has NEVER to the best of my knowledge come CLOSE to admitting that he was even remotely interested in becoming a member of the Redskins fan base.

he just reports around the team, that's all. and because he has a young family and is in the journalism world, and has by all accounts a ridiculous commute due to numerous obligations...he would gain NO credibility with many of his sources or future employers if he sounded like Larry Micheal!

He's probably on a "humble" salary at best for the post, and gets compensated for the comcast gig as well, but I don't believe that he wants or intends to continue RI and work for the post his whole life!

He's either got to write a book (ala Mitch Albom), sell out to Mickey Mouse, or continue to report as factually based information as possible, while remaining SALTY towards an entity that is not very well respected outside of MD VA and DC.

Posted by: dbussjd | February 1, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Actually, Billick never had anything fast on offense. It was always the gound game and defense. Heap and Mason are the only two skill players that come to mind during Billick's tenure. We are like Warp 3 to his LTD. But im sure his offensive philosophy differs with Zorn's somewhat. Probably not a good idea.

Posted by: GimmyDatPot | February 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

there is a big difference between spending money to make your team better and spending money just the sake of spending money this is a owner who does not pay upfornnt money to any player think about it he does not understand the ramifications of the players turning their high cap no into bonus money what he's not realizing is that the more he does that the more future seasons he's jeoprdizing what he's trying to avoid is that cap hit the only question is that how much longer can you avoid that cap hit as for OCho Cinco if he's costing two second round picks that is two much because he's getting up there in age he hitting to his 8th year now if the skins did this before they picked up LLoyd and gave up 2nd and 4th round pick i can live with that one high and one low think about that besides if you bring in Chad Johnson do you have enough cap space to give him contract extension and extend players like Jason Campbell MCintosh, montgomery, and Gholston think abou that for a minute.

Posted by: rmnkevorkian | February 1, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I imagine Meeks is aware of the Blache situation and is already cool with it or he'd withdraw. Spagnewlow the same, if he chooses to interview.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 1, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

The hiring of Zorn and the switch to the West Coast Offense is no surprise. Obviously Vinny is a West Coast Guy, but more importantly, the most successful teams in the NFL and in particular the NFC, ie Green Bay, Seatle, Philly, and some can argue that the offense run by the Patriots and Dallas is a version of the West Coast now. My guess is that Dan has always wanted a pass first offense and that is why he brought Vinny in here in the first place. Take a look at the talent we have built over the last 4 years, Clinton Portis, Santana Moss, Randle El, and Cooley (as pure TE) and you have the beginnings of a good West Coast base, mix in the fact that the offensive line already has a zone stretch blocking scheme and now you have a potentially powerful west coast offense. The down side, which is significant, is the learning curve for JC and the terminalogy (from numeric to wording)for the rest of the skill positions. Regarding the defense, thank god Greg has stayed with this team, otherwise we would be talking about a major defection of core Redskins and serious salary cap hell over the next few years (due in part because players would refuse to re-work deals to help the skins get under the cap).

The REAL question someone should ask is "How did Joe NOT know what Vinny's plans were prior to Supporting his promotion?" I just do not believe that Dan and Joe did not talk about the future of the Redskins under Vinny's management. Joe had to know about the offense switch and my guess is he knew Gregg had an uphill battle to win this job, just look at the final press conference. This would be very interesting if Joe supported this whole thing behind closed doors. Anyway, the new coach will be an OFFENSIVE West Coast guy and that will be either Mooch or Fassel is my guess.

Posted by: cevanguelidi | February 1, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I have no problem with Snyder paying big money to get good coaches. As far as I'm aware it ultimately comes out his pocket (although I'm willing to stand corrected on this) so if he wants to give these coaches offers that they can't refuse then why not?

If the story about Blache is true then I'm a bit concerned. I want someone in there who is hungry to succeed, not someone who is there just because it's going to give him a nice little nestegg for his retirement.

Who knows how all this will play out but it's sure gonna be interesting to watch!

Posted by: tartanskin | February 1, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"JC Says He Will..."
Okay, buddy, I'll play ball.
Which mystery, sween?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 1, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Mooch?

Posted by: Dorf | February 1, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

If the story about Blache is true then I'm a bit concerned. I want someone in there who is hungry to succeed, not someone who is there just because it's going to give him a nice little nestegg for his retirement.

Who knows how all this will play out but it's sure gonna be interesting to watch!

Posted by: tartanskin | February 1, 2008 11:51 AM

On the other hand, I like the idea of a guy who isn't worried about sucking up to the boss. He can always retire and lay it at Danny's doorstep.

Posted by: Pthomas2mm | February 1, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

What a cluster f@ck.

Your OC candidate loves Seattle and wants to stay there with his family? Ah, let's keep adding millions to his salary until he can't refuse and ultimately says yes.

Your DC candidate is ready to retire? Ah, let's keep adding millions to HIS salary until he can't refuse and ultimately says yes.

Oh, and don't forget that you still haven't hired a HC, who may or may not clash with their philosophies...

What a joke.

Hey Danny, how about this idea? First let's hire a coach and have him be a part of the process. Then let's hire coordinators who actually want to be here, and aren't accepting coaching jobs because they simply couldn't refuse the offer (same crap happens with the players too).

What happens if/when we go 5-11 and Snyder/Vinny aren't happy with Zorn? Does he stay and try to work through it? Does he take the heat from the fans and media? OR does he accept the 40 gagillion buyout of his contract and go back for Seattle, his home?

I don't see any reason, in any profession, in any walk of life, to keep adding onto someone's salary until they can't say no. There is no one that valuable, especially Zorn, who hasn't even been a coordinator before.

Again, this whole thing is a joke.

I love the Redskins, and I desperately want them to win, but part of (about .01% of me) wants to see them lose next year just to see how they explain this mess. My bet is that they ignore the fans and media yet again. Only time will tell.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 1, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Not to rehash, but I still can't see that anyone has really figured out what the problem was with Williams. It takes time to develop into a great team, and the Redskins continue to fail to allow the process to take hold. Look at the best teams in the NFL and you see the dreaded continuity. Plain and simple. I know the Dallas example of 2007, but really, Dallas got numerous gifts from their opponents (Buffalo, Washington) winnning games they had no business winning. They had very few meaningful injuries (another common thread for winners in the league) and were just plain lucky at times (I forget the opponent, but the game when the center kept snapping the ball over Jessica's head and it bounced right back to him each time comes to mind).

Scaling back Saunders playbook sounds like the correct approach, and the offense was improving through the year, even before TC came in. Seeing what the best offensive system in the league would be without the "handcuffs" was really exciting to think about.

No matter who the next HC is, there is no escaping that it is starting over, which is utterly stupid. So there has to be a reason why Williams was not hired. Somebody (Jason) needs to dig more and get to the real reason. Otherwise we are left with Dan Snyder just being that much of an idiot. I can't keep urging my kids to love the team if there is no hope of success. And with an idiot for an owner, there is no hope for success.

Posted by: jyates | February 1, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I asked a very good friend and lifelong Bears fan (season ticket holder, etc) about Blache and for what it's worth, he had this to say:

"The players always liked him, but his best year was when we got ridiculously lucky on turnovers all the time. No one ever accused a Bears coach since 1990 of being creative, I'll say that."

Not exactly a ringing endorsement but not a bad word there either.

Posted by: sheidt99 | February 1, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Greg Blache is a maniac (and I mean that in the best possible way). When he was the DC in Chicago he was all about toughness and punishing the opponent. I recall that he got in trouble with the Chicago media because he would give players bullets for making big hits in games - actual live ammo. I give Blache a lot of credit for turning Brian Urlacher into the beast he is (or was circa 2003). He definitely wants to win, and he definitely wants his players to go all out.

Posted by: sc7596 | February 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and you think Blache will stay here when the shart hits the fan? HAHA. He'll be back hunting in no time.

So basically, it boils down to this. Instead of hiring two up and comers, who will have the hunger and desire to stick through a situation because they want to be here, we beg 2 guys with the oldest trick in the book (money)?

We'll be looking for two more coordinators, and players will have to adjust to two new systems, faster than you can say "worst owner in professional sports history".

NOW THAT's STABILITY FOR YA.

WHAT A FLIPPING JOKE.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 1, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey I know a guy who spilled cherry coke on his macbook and now the return, shift and arrow keys are sticking (not sticky). This guy I know is really upset about it and wants to know from someone super smart what he should do... I really feel bad for the guy... can anyone me... I mean this guy out?

Posted by: Dorf | February 1, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Continuity in staff and players on D the side that has performed well over the past 4 years. Change on the O side where the most improvement is needed. Above-average personnel at the skills, Buges still there to coach up the O line, Mooch as the font man. Sounds like something worth watching in 08.

Posted by: Pthomas2mm | February 1, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

**sniff sniff**
What's that I smell. Ah yes, RB's season tix renewal invoice burning. Free yourself, Ricky Bobby!

Posted by: 4-12 | February 1, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

No to Fassel! No to Fassel!

Posted by: jm220 | February 1, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"recall that he got in trouble with the Chicago media because he would give players bullets for making big hits in games - actual live ammo."

I'm guessing this was more of a problem with Tank Johnson around.

Posted by: sheidt99 | February 1, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

rickybobby, the blache story does worry me, but not zorn's. yes, zorn may have wanted seattle as his top choice, but it doesn't mean he didn't want to be in washington. he is an up-and-comer and by all accounts a brilliant mind.

Posted by: psps23 | February 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Hall of Fame Enshrinement tickets went on sale at 11:00am.
Isn't that just like the NFL to put them on sale the day BEFORE the inductees are selected.

I bought my four. However, those seats will be empty if Art is not selected (Sorry, Darrell, I made myself a promise never to go to that place without Mr. Monk).

How great it would be to see them both get in together!

Tickets are available at the Pro Football Hall of Fame website.

ArtMonkHOF'08

Posted by: youcrew | February 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

jm- If it's Fassel, you might want to know that Ovechkin had 4 goals, an assist, and broke his nose last night. Let's go Caps...

Posted by: 4-12 | February 1, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

chek d green's blog on coaches dirty dozen confirmation

Posted by: jmrodier1 | February 1, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse


It's more than legitimate to question the football and talent judging knowledge of Skins front office (and that post that listed our draft picks pre-Gibbs and sans the no-brainer Samuels/Arrington year is truly chilling) BUT,one thing this front office knows is how to manipulate the salary cap. Every year there are dire predictions about how the Redskins are so way over the cap that won't even be able to pay the gas bill or the practice squad. And every year, the Redskins have the bucks to get whomever they want. There is no question they know finance and work that cap better than anyone. It won't get in their way. But do they know football? We're about to find out.

Posted by: chrisjohn91 | February 1, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey I know a guy who spilled cherry coke on his macbook and now the return, shift and arrow keys are sticking (not sticky). This guy I know is really upset about it and wants to know from someone super smart what he should do... I really feel bad for the guy... can anyone me... I mean this guy out?

Posted by: Dorf | February 1, 2008 12:06 PM

If you hire someone to fix it you better make sure the guy is a young "up and comer" not an older professional that knows what he is doing.

If the guy isn't 5 years old and wearing pj pants rickybobby may blow his stack.

Posted by: sams3 | February 1, 2008 12:24 PM | Report abuse

What is the team going to do with Brunell and Collins? St. Louis maybe a good move for Collins since Bulger is always hurt... Gus definitely didn't impress anyone last year as a trusty backup. Where do the Redskins find a back up if collins leaves?

THE SKY IS FALLING!!

The Dorf still abides.

Posted by: Dorf | February 1, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

good call samsTre... we don't want to give RB another thing to complain about...

although if he retains his tix next season I'll be emailing him for some throwaway games. He's my boy.

Posted by: Dorf | February 1, 2008 12:28 PM | Report abuse

rickybobby is the man, we all know this, I'm just saying he is a little hardcore today.

Posted by: sams3 | February 1, 2008 12:30 PM | Report abuse

"Have you ever negotiated for anything more expensive that your Honda Odyssey? When you made multiple offers, were you "bidding against yourself" or were you negotiating? Or did you just go in and pay sticker price?"

talent, seriously, did you negotiate for your own Odyssey like this?

You: So sticker is, like, what, $38,000?
Dealer: [silent]
You: Okay okay okay... I'll give you 39.
Dealer: [silent]
You: No no, how about 40? Would you take 40?
Dealer: [silent]
You: Okay, $55, but that's it. My last offer.
Dealer: Sure.

Bidding against yourself is WHEN THE OTHER PARTY DOESN'T COUNTEROFFER. If they counteroffer, as likely happened with JLC and his Honda, you're truly negotiating, forcing a bit of info out of Party B. Bidding against yourself means you're upping your bid without even waiting to see if the last one worked. Brilliant.

*sigh*

Posted by: WorstSeat | February 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

It seems Williams didn't get the job because he refused to throw Saunders overboard.

Posted by: info | February 1, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

yeah 4-12 I read about that this morning. Got to love a kid that plays with a broken nose.

Posted by: jm220 | February 1, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Mooch is an offensive coach as is Fassel. Coincidence? I think not. I'm with you, Jason. I think Mooch is going to be hired next week.

Posted by: dayard_46 | February 1, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Dorf,
I did the same thing to my iBook.

Posted by: mack1 | February 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Info that is my thought as well. Then after reading how Al called around to get QB coach a job. Makes me believe that's how things went down.

Posted by: jm220 | February 1, 2008 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Dorf,
Ignore that. I hit submit, when I meant to delete. I was going to say, you can replace the keyboard. But a quick look at my wife's Macbook reveals that's not not an option with that laptop. Sorry.

Posted by: mack1 | February 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Jasno's post says that GG was on board with a new offense when it was clear Al was done. I think Snyder/Cerrato didn't think GG was on board with a structure that makes every staff member accountable for their individual performance. I love Darrel but I question whether it makes sense to have that type of structure for a football team.

Posted by: Pthomas2mm | February 1, 2008 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Your OC candidate loves Seattle and wants to stay there with his family? Ah, let's keep adding millions to his salary until he can't refuse and ultimately says yes.

Your DC candidate is ready to retire? Ah, let's keep adding millions to HIS salary until he can't refuse and ultimately says yes.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 1, 2008 12:00 PM

So here's what we should do. Let's hire a Peace Corps Volunteer who will do the work for free, and an unemployed guy who's desperate for the job.

RB, the only people we want to hire are people who have other things to do with their time. These aren't internships or entry-level positions. To get the people we want, you have to pay them a salary.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Hello, My Name is Forrest.

Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but if some of you "fans" would actually read to comprehend you would be far less cynical about what is transpiring. Let me see if I can break this down for you:

Williams out as coach: Wanted to keep Al Saunders for OC (strike one); adversarial relationship with FO (strike two); Arrogant and probably wanted JG type control (strike three). If you can't play nicely you are sent home!

Lastly, Peirce is/was/will always be an assclown: Never, never, never talk bad about the people that gave you a chance. The toes you step on today may be connected the ass you have to kiss tomorrow pal. He is all about the Benjamin's, talks about unity core and continuity but chases the money (Pats example, players stay for less to get more championships, continuity)

And that's all I have to say about that.

Posted by: Forrest | February 1, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Accountability is fine but it sounds like the staff would be accountable to the owner. Shouldn't they be accountable to the HC? I mean isn't that why they call him the HEAD coach?

Posted by: Pthomas2mm | February 1, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

A week ago, I said the hiring of the coordinators had a tricky backstory.

Zorn still does not know if he would be calling the plays or his coach. Both hugely important factors in the job.

Because of that, I got a sense that Zorn's motivation might be getting away from something. It happens all the time, people switch jobs for better security, more $$ and a promotion.

Would Zorn would simply move up the line in Seattle when Holmgren retires? JLa says that was not the case. So Zorn left instead of getting passed over.

Whether JLa is right, we don't know. But it sounds like Zorn's focus was on getting out of Seattle. Not the greatest of motivations. Though with very few openings, it sounds like he made the smart move for himself.

All this says nothing about Zorn's ability. Its all about mgmt. It says that Danny is having to throw a lot of $$$ at a guy who needed to get out of Seattle anyway. Which goes back to the respect factor. Guys aren't coming to DC because they love the idea of working for this team. People will go to NE, Indy and a few other places because they love the idea of being there. A few weeks back, Washington looked like it would be one of those places. Not anymore.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse


Offensive Guy check
Holmgren Tree check
49er record check
Big Name check
Pal around Quotient check plus
Vinny likes him check
RI Blog Fans Buy it check

"Ladies and Gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you the next Head Coach of the Washington Redskins.... Steve Mariucci"

Posted by: chrisjohn91 | February 1, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Long time reader first time poster....I think oucho cinco would be a good grab is the skins would run the right offense an get him the ball. If he gets his passes and the team is winning only thing you will hear from him is about the fines he gets from all the TD dances he has to do. Basically let him be him. He has not really done anything that anyone else woudn't want to do. To my knowledge he has not been in trouble with the law and basically just wants to win. Put him in the right situation and he will be fine.

One last thing I am hearing is that Pacman Jones will be made available when he is reinstated. I am not a fan of his at all but you guys think the skins would have interest in him?

Who will the Skins pick up on D now that the coordinator is in place and free agency starts.

Sorr this is so long it snowed here last night and I am bored now

Posted by: bsb2306 | February 1, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

As for Pierce, yeah he should keep it to himself. But its an example of a guy who felt disrespected and it obviously eats at him.

When you mess with a player's pride and respect, you risk a lot. Which is what Danny did when he told the players that Gregg Williams was out.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 12:58 PM | Report abuse

As for Pierce, yeah he should keep it to himself. But its an example of a guy who felt disrespected and it obviously eats at him.

When you mess with a player's pride and respect, you risk a lot. Which is what Danny did when he told the players that Gregg Williams was out.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 12:58 PM

z-man,

Non sequitur? How did the 'Skins mess with Pierce's pride and respect? They made him an offer and he turned it down. It's not like they cut him -- they tried to keep him.

I don't see the connection between the first and the second paragraphs.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

So basically most of the Joe gibbs retirement press conference was bull. Danny said he wants coninuity. According to JLa they only have some semblance of continuity because they couldn't get Rex Ryan. Otherwise the Defense would have been blown up. Snyder probably already new that Saunders would be gone, so what kind of continuity was he talking about (he and Vinny?)

Also, they both said that Gibbs would be involved in the hiring process which is False. Maybe Gibbs thought he would be involved. the only involvement I've read was that he had to convince Gregg Williams twice not to withdraw his name from consideration.

Snyder is irritating. It is fine to want to have a coach that you can work with and that you think is best, but then don't talk about the Redskins family and how you desire continuity.

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 1, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm not too concerned about the press conference qoutes. At that time, what Synder said maybe what he felt or it may have been a lie. We're lied to all the time; by the president, our employers, etc. I want the best possible people hired for the job because I want the Skins to be in the SB.

Posted by: mdvj | February 1, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Pierce has obviously got issues but for crying out loud the dude has a ticket to the big dance. Just goes to show you some people are never happy now matter the circumstance. Ricky Bobby I'm sure you will agree with that, right?

For the record Joe Gibbs stated continuity was the goal at his press conference.

Posted by: Forrest | February 1, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Now I have heard everything Z you are blaming Dan for Pierce leaving that was GG's fault he is the one that believed anyone could play in his defense and that there were no staters on his side of the ball. Look what he did to Lavar then he also did not want Ryan Clark and instead lobbied hard to get AA. He left Mcantosh on the bench for 12 games in 06 when are weak side linbacker at the time could not tackle me.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 1, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

talent ... I'm not attempting to judge whether Pierce is justified for his feelings. To paraphrase Denny Green, He feels how he thought feels. I'm just looking at the result.

Its related to the Skins current situation. Pierce feels the Skins played with his sense of pride and respect. And it eats at him.

I see a parallel with the coaching situation. Wouldn't you think a lot of the Skins players will feel that Danny disrespected them? They players pretty much all lined up behind GG. The poker equivalent of going all in for GG. And Danny said "I don't care what you players think about it."

How will the players ultimately respond? Not clear. But that lack of respect thing runs very deep ... Pierce is an example of that

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Fans who feel their favorite candidates have been egregiously wronged have called for more transparency in the process, with calls to make every secret ballot public. The day likely is coming, and soon, when the ubiquitous NFL Network forces a camera into the room as the electronic fly-on-the-wall eavesdropper. When that day arrives, every selector, including this one, will have to make a tough decision. For now, at least, we continue to toe the clear line of confidentiality demarcation.

Len P wrote this about the Hall of Fame selection process.

It should read: One day I will have to be accountable for my uncalled for bias against the redskins and my friar tuck hair cut. Until then, I will sit in my dark smoke filled room plotting against Art Monk because I'm bitter that I am not half the person he is.

Posted by: sams3 | February 1, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

It seems Williams didn't get the job because he refused to throw Saunders overboard.

Posted by: info | February 1, 2008 12:31 PM
_____________________

So now that Saunders has landed, they announce that GG is HC!! Mystery solved!

Posted by: Xlnt | February 1, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

z-man,

The transition has been messy and unsettling, but it's only a transition. How the players ultimately respond depends on the new coaches.

Players could say "Dan did us a real favor by not listening to us." Or they could hate him as much as he's hated on this blog. It really depends on whether they like Zorn better than Saunders, Blache better than Williams, and Coach Yet-to-be-Named better than they think they would have liked Gregg Williams.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

kmdp, can you read? I never blamed Danny for Pierce. Pierce does. I don't know the story and no one on this board really knows what happened.

My best guess ... and its only a guess, is the Skins offered him a contract with a hometown discount. Pierce, seeing that guys from the outside were getting big bucks, felt disrespected because he figured he's earned a big payday and should be getting a hometown bonus. Especially since he had been cheap up to that point.

But who made the biz decision to let him go and why? I don't know. Could have been GG, Gibbs, Vinny or Danny. We just know where Pierce points the finger (and which finger he uses)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Z-man,

And, by the way, the way that I read this Antonio Pierce whining about the 'Skins is that the guy, despite his success with the Giants, still has remorse over having left the team for a marginally better salary.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

beep beep, talent, I'll respond on the next blog entry

Posted by: zcezcest1 | February 1, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

z-man,

Maybe we should eliminate the front office all together and let the players run the team? We would NOT want to offend them!

Better yet we could have the front offices just hold the players packages while they pee. Those spare seconds could be used in order to have the players make more decisions they are unqualified to make.

Posted by: sams3 | February 1, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

ta, how could you read Pierces continued whining in any other way? Some day, some reporter with a set of stones is going to ask him why he carries this around with him, after all it was 4 FRIGGIN YEARS ago.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 1, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

More importantly, what experienced backup WC QB's are available to back up JC? And since CB's are the essential ingredient to Blache's defense, where does that put Carlos Rogers who can't seem to ever turn his head around to find the ball? I dont think he could even cover Blache at this point!

Posted by: harrisso | February 1, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

It really depends on whether they like Zorn better than Saunders, Blache better than Williams, and Coach Yet-to-be-Named better than they think they would have liked Gregg Williams.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 01:28 PM

Players seldom like change in any team sport, it oftens upsets the established heirarchy in the locker room.

That said, winning typically heals ALL wounds in these matters. Losing on the other hand...

Look at what happened with the Fins this year. Cam started as the 'new broom' and although many of the senior players didn't buy into his approach they tried it. Once the team kept losing though it got real ugly real fast.

I hope you guys don't have a season like that next year, or you may be looking at brand new everything by next year; top to bottom.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

z-man,

The 'Skins offered Pierce a salary close to what the Giants gave him but with a smaller signing bonus. This was Gibbs' call, or at least that's what Gibbs said. Same thing happened with Smoot. Gibbs was trying to establish fiscal discipline and wasn't willing to pay more than Marcus Washington was getting. There was no "hometown discount."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 1, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Tree house closed down. Daggar and MV Dame vanquished. Mystery revealed late.

Posted by: dcsween | February 1, 2008 10:59 AM

One wonders how you got Cyn City to do it... I tried posting the day after your last. I assume that you rendered your.. ahem... services nobly.
I thought of asking her to reopen during the push to 150K, but that might have appeared desperate and pathetic.
Unlike blogging here.

Posted by: daggar | February 1, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

meeks,fossil,mooch,pooch,spagrano,macdanny,does it really make a differnce for 08 season?not.Its still starting all over.Cjohnson?how many 7+yr vet wrs do we need?gone

Posted by: DLESMonday | February 1, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Well....should be an interesting next 7 days......

Some people fear change.....but I think its necessary sometimes.

In this case.....with the youth movement beginning on this team.....every player knows they are not safe.....that means they'll play harder because they know they have to earn that spot they are playing at.

Posted by: goosedude | February 1, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

youth movement?change is great when it is for the better,how about a change in ownership.send a message,boycott the preseason games/zero attendance.

Posted by: DLESMonday | February 1, 2008 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Will SOMEONE please tell me who is OUCHO CONCHO??. I havn't a clue who the hell he is OR WHAT HIS CLAIM TO FAME is. Snyder may be the biggest idiot in pro football BUT I feel he has been so taken back by the fans---who line his pockets---anger and angst that he would dare to NOT hire a coach he is well versed in offense oop's there I go expecting him TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOT DO THE ABNORMAL THING.

Posted by: vergens2 | February 2, 2008 5:54 AM | Report abuse

Will SOMEONE please tell me who is OUCHO CONCHO??. I havn't a clue who the hell he is OR WHAT HIS CLAIM TO FAME is. Snyder may be the biggest idiot in pro football BUT I feel he has been so taken back by the fans---who line his pockets---anger and angst that he would dare to NOT hire a coach he is well versed in offense oop's there I go expecting him TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOT DO THE ABNORMAL THING.

Posted by: vergens2 | February 2, 2008 05:54 AM

I believe that is one of the variations of "ocho-cinco" aka Chad Johnson #85, disgruntled wide receiver for the Bengals.

Posted by: jimwell | February 2, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder needs to sell the team and pursue a career in fantasy football. Lets get real. We haven't had any stability since he has been here. Gibbs came back and in my opinion had us going in a good direction (2 out of the last 3 years in the playoffs) and now what are doing again. Firing coaches. Being the laughing stock of the league. Probably going out and signing a bunch of overpriced free agents and heading back down the same path we were before Gibbs arrived. When is it going to stop.

Posted by: Redskins001 | February 2, 2008 1:05 PM | Report abuse

I think we should hire Mooch and lets see what he can do. He is the only coach on the list that I feel can get people excited again. Fassel is just another Norv Turner.

Posted by: Redskins001 | February 2, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

mooch the pooch?excited?you must get excited about happy meals too.both of them together couldnt make a turner,and he is a -1 in redskins history.I will be glad to say im sorry if any of these bozos have a winning record but it dont look good.you can make other plans next feb.,cause skins wont be in the big dance.

Posted by: DLESMonday | February 2, 2008 9:07 PM | Report abuse

Am I the only one that is sick and tired of LaCanfora's smart-ass remarks about how the Redskins do business. If they hired Gregg Williams, he would have a problem with that. If they kept Saunders, he'd suggest the playbook should be changed. He'd figure out some way to blame Snyder for keeping the staff intact or changing it. This guy just hates the Redskins, and thus has no credibility here. Please can this guy!

Posted by: tramell.canady | February 4, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

...and for the 1,000th time, who cares what people in other organizations think about the Redskins as LaCanfora repeatedly references? It's probably the same guy time and time again. Tell that "source" he should spend less time worrying about what the Skins are doing. Frankly, I dont care what other teams think or do. Geez! Please fire LaCanfora!

Posted by: tramell.canady | February 4, 2008 6:29 PM | Report abuse

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