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The Morning After the Nightmare Before

Well, I thought that maybe there'd be more positives now that a clear, clean morning is upon us. Not so much.

Sure, it's only preseason, but in the one preseason game that mattered, the Redskins had their worst outing. What do you think the biggest issue was and how do you fix it: the offensive line's failure to protect the quarterback, Jason Campbell's tendency to hold onto the ball too long, the defensive secondary's struggles, the defensive line's lack of depth?

Jim Zorn will talk to reporters a little later and there'll be the MRI result on Jason Taylor's knee as well as an update on Jon Jansen, no doubt. Meanwhile, the team's first cuts loom on Tuesday.

By Cindy Boren  |  August 24, 2008; 8:34 AM ET
 
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Next: Taylor to Be Out 10 Days to 2 Weeks

Comments

First? Ugh. So much for preseason hype.

Posted by: skinswest | August 24, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Am i the only one who doesn't care for labor day?

Posted by: Alex35332 | August 24, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Never thought that the D looked good in the pre-season. Like the Giants, the Panthers showed that a good D-line can dominate a game. Hope Snyder finally realizes this and doesn't make it an afterthought on draft day. Amobi Okoye has been more of a factor for Houston than Landry has been for the Skins.

Posted by: jgloo | August 24, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

6-10, best case scenario. Paging Coach Cowher.

Posted by: JW | August 24, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

From looking at the stats (I have yet to see the rebroadcast on NFL Network), it sounds as if we're back to giving up the big play. We're trying to make arm tackles on runs and giving too much cushion on long pass plays.

When we can't play good defense in a game situation, how can we expect the offense to do well when it faces one in a game?

Posted by: Skins Fan in Houston | August 24, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I was rooting for Okoye over Landry in that draft too, jgloo. But with Sean Taylor no longer with us, Landry ends up being a better pick.

I was going to try and wait until today to see the Skins game on NFLN, but a buddy of mine texted me the 34-0 halftime score and the Taylor injury so it's pretty moot now. Besides, who wants to see that rape all over again?

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

It's a little early to criticize Landry as a draft pick. It's only his 2nd year, he was put in a tough situation last year having to learn the NFL as a rookie AND had to do deal with losing his mentor halfway through the season. At the time he was drafted, we were expected to have the fiercest secondary in the NFL with Taylor and Landry. I think that pick has become even more crucial now. Without Landry, Reed Doughty would be our #1 safety. Doughty seemed to be doing his best Adam Archuleta impression last night.

Posted by: Rob M | August 24, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

brownwood26, please do not torture yourself by watching the game today on the NFL Network. It was so BEYOND bad I can't believe the network has not pulled it from the line up. It's a lovely day outside.....this game will ruin your day. I could not even sleep last night after that "experience."

Posted by: Lisa | August 24, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

How about the same thing I've been shouting for years...the Samuels-Jansen tackle tandem is the most overrated pair in all the NFL. Nothing shocking about them constantly being bull or speed rushed to the QB game in and game out. Not the only problem but a HUGE one.

Posted by: Jake66 | August 24, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I don't think anyone was criticizing the Landry pick, Rob. I think what jgloo was saying was that this team needs to put more focus on stacking up lineman in the draft instead of trading for expensive quick-fixes. If Taylor can't go this year--knock on wood--that 2nd rounder is wasted because he's probably got only one or two years left.

Landry's a beast. And depending who you ask, he might be just as good or better than Sean Taylor. But just like Sean, he can't do it all by himself.

I just think that the Redskins may have held on a little to long to some of these older veteran types. If they had used the draft to build the team over the last few years, they would have a young nucleus to grow with Zorn. I guess we'll see for sure as this season wears on.

But the fact remains this was a preseason game. While the abysmal first half of this game isn't a good sign of things to come, it's not necessarily what will go down Sept. 4th. If they have a good showing against Jax, all will be forgiven.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

Besides, who wants to see that rape all over again?

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:03 AM

Rape is the wrong word here. The way the Redskins played, whatever happened to them was with their consent. No fight at all in the Redskins last night.

Posted by: talent evaluator | August 24, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the advice, Lisa. I think I'll take my daughter to the park instead.

Jake66, take a deep breath. Samuels is the real deal. The man routinely neutralizes the other team's best pass rusher and is a perennial Pro-Bowler. This is the NFL--even Pro Bolwers get beat from time to time. Besides, this is preseason. I doubt that play happens when the games count.

Jansen is long in the tooth and is probably experiencing the beginning of a very steep drop-off in production. He'll get every opportunity to prove himself (mainly because we've got nothing else), but I think he's coming to the end. But say this tandem is overrated when they haven't really played together much over the last few years is a little out of place.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

I completely agree with you brownwood, but I think saying Okoye has been more of a factor for Houston than Landry has been for the Skins is understating Landry's impact on the team. I too thought Okoye would be a better option at the time, being that we needed a pass rusher. But I'm not ready to say Okoye means more to Houston than Landry means to us simply because he has missed a few preseason games.

And I also agree that we have to remember....this still is preseason. I honestly feel this game got out of hand because of Taylor's injury. They didn't look good early on, but they were still competitive. It seemed like once Taylor went down, the defense just gave up. That's when the missed tackles and wide open receivers started happening almost on a play-by-play basis.

Posted by: Rob M | August 24, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse


1) The O-Line looked HORRIBLE. It looked like it did under Spurrier.

2) Jason Campbell looked unsure of himself and lost. I watched a lot of other QB's this weekend and he holds the ball too long. This is the first time I'm questioning whether Campbell can get it done.

3) It also looked like guys were playing not to get hurt.

4) F--K that "It's just the preseason" argument. They stunk and need to be torn a new one. On the flip side, this is a veteran team, and I doubt they will take another beating like that.

5) Reed Doughty is some shti.

Posted by: sicwidit | August 24, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Also agree with you brownwood about Samuels-Jansen. Samuels is not the only player to have been run over all game by Julius Peppers, the dude is a beast when healthy. Jansen's best days are definitely long gone, but to diminish how good these two guys were in their prime means you weren't paying attention. How did Stephen Davis' career turn out once he didn't have them blocking for him anymore?

Posted by: Rob M | August 24, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Only update I want on Jansen is that he returned his signing bonus money and retired. No more living on reputation circa 2000.

All optimism I had is gone.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I guess we can expect this as a sign of things to come. 5-11 or 6-10.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/26/AR2006082601029.html

Posted by: Groundhog Day | August 24, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Landry is a good player. Okoye was needed more. Skins were building a strong secondary without a strong D-line which is more foundational (is that a word?).

Rhetorical question: Would Sean Taylor have hurt himself if he had been playing a different position w/o Landry there?

Posted by: jgloo | August 24, 2008 9:48 AM | Report abuse

No more living on reputation circa 2000.

All optimism I had is gone.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 9:42 AM

This sounds more like a Ravens fan than a Skins fan...I don't recall the sale of Jansen jerseys being high or any ESPN slurping of Jansen in 2000. What gives?

I might also remind folks that Jansen has never made a Pro Bowl and for years was one of the most UNDERRATED tackles in the game. But his body is betraying him at age 33 shouldn't detract from what he's been here for a long time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Wow. They looked flat as a pancake last night. Espeically the o-line. Carolina's front four is good, but not that good. I'm going to chalk this one up to them being emotionally spent from the death of Joe Bugel's daughter. I'm going to act like that never happened and drink some more kool aid.

Posted by: etrod | August 24, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

This loss, albeit, in the preseason, will be the first test of Zorn's leadership. I also have to believe that players are questioning JC.

Posted by: sicwidit | August 24, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

The enduring sign of a hardcore Redskin fan: It's either the Super Bowl or the Toilet bowl....there's no middle ground.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Defense will be fine once Landry gets on the field. Without him they are toast. Should also consider moving Springs to FS and Landry back to SS.

Hopeing this was just a flat effort by the offense. We've seen them be better than this already this year, so we know it is possible. Maybe the Bugel thing got the o-line distracted? Campbell is going to have to trust the receivers and release the ball on rhythm. It's normal to struggle with that as a QB transitions into this offense. He'll get it done. It's going to be an inconsistent year. We will look like conteders some weeks and pretenders in other weeks.

Posted by: Mike H. | August 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Sic, I don't know why they'd question JC. Maybe the video says more, but 60% completion % and low yardage just says to me he was doing the Brunell patented "dump it off to avoid getting killed" method.

Besides, who are they going to look to now? Favre is already in NY. And Collins and Brennan won't be any better. If JC looks like Leinart last night, THEN I'll worry.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Well I don't feel any better a day after. Jansen is becoming a weak link and it maybe time to put him in a back up role. I been the strongest supporter of JC. I give him a little break because the O line totally suck last night but he has step it up.

Posted by: jm220 | August 24, 2008 10:00 AM | Report abuse

This sounds more like a Ravens fan than a Skins fan...I don't recall the sale of Jansen jerseys being high or any ESPN slurping of Jansen in 2000. What gives?

I might also remind folks that Jansen has never made a Pro Bowl and for years was one of the most UNDERRATED tackles in the game. But his body is betraying him at age 33 shouldn't detract from what he's been here for a long time.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:49 AM

I am not talking about his reputation with fans or the media which is meaningless. Who cares how many jerseys sold or face time on tv? I am talking about his reputation among coaches like Bugel who need to yank him from the starting lineup. This is a what have you done for me lately league. I appreciate what Jansen gave us several years ago but now he is always either hurt or flat out sucks. There is no room for debate on that.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Well said, Mike. This is just Year 1 of the Zorn Project. If we still have similar questions in Year 3, THEN there's cause for concern.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Jansen wasn't the only one who sucked last night on that line. How about Julius Peppers shoving Samuels in to JC's back causing a fumble. That, to me, was the ugliest play of the night.

Posted by: etrod | August 24, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse

The lone bright spots are the play of Kareem Moore and Ryan Boschetti. Moore made some rookie mistakes but he showed flashes of having a game. Boschetti (bubble boy) makes the most of what he has, plays hard and never gave up. He is finally getting some recognition. Erasmus James showed a little. Khary Campbell was everywhere and proved he is a valuable contributor. I don't know who was playing poorly at DT but the Carolina backs had not problem getting to the second level so our DT's gave us very little. Maybe Boschetti should be getting more reps earlier. Is it just me or does it seem that as a kick returner, Devin Thomas seems looking for a place to take a dive. Worst of all, he drops his head and that is asking for serious injury. I think both Kelly and Thomas should be on IR all season. Go with Mix and McMullen. And finally, I dont understand Injury Settlements.. what prevents a team from paying players a settlement to hang around town in case of need. I would bring Rian Wallace back to the practice squad. LB depth is looking very necessary, with Jason Taylor out for a month at least.

Posted by: Phil | August 24, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Positives from last night:

1) After a 3-0 lovefest, fan expectations are lowered to reality. 'Skins will have to scrap for a wildcard spot.

2) ....The...um...someone help me here?

Posted by: SCSkins | August 24, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

I agree with you on Moore. Kid has a game. I am really becoming concern about Reid being back there.

Posted by: jm220 | August 24, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

This is a what have you done for me lately league. I appreciate what Jansen gave us several years ago but now he is always either hurt or flat out sucks. There is no room for debate on that.


Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:01 AM

No wonder you're posting as anon; this is either Bill O'Reilly or John McCain...

First of all, I think you misread my response--I was asking why you pulled 2000 as Jansen's high point in reputation when at the time he was still a relatively obscure 2nd round pick on an 8-8 team headlined by such washed-up newcomers as Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, and Mark Carrier.

And I won't debate that Jansen's been hurt. Two season ending injuries in '04 and '07, playing with two broken thumbs in '06. But from '99 to '03, he was the picture of production and durability. To be fair, he's been hurt so often of late that we don't know for sure how much he has left in the tank. That's what his season is for. He'll either be good for us or he'll prove once and for all that he doesn't have it anymore.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The only positive that I can find last night is that it was a wake up call. Did anyone really think that right tackle was not going to be a problem this season? Jansen has not performed well for several years, even when healthy. For those of you thinking Heyer is the answer just rewind your tapes of the Seattle game from last year. Zorn's offense just got limited in scope. Unless we have an effective running game the threat of the long downfield pass just vanished because of our offensive line problems. Zorn is now faced with the necessity of keeping tight ends on the line to help the right tackle spot. That can not be a plus. This offense is now forced into 3 step drops all the time, aka "dink and go". It will be interesting to see if Campbell can find a rhythm, Portis can last more than 5 games in a season, the offensive line can survive even one injury. It may be too much in a sequence of events for all to work out. The other teams in our division are stronger in the offensive and defensive lines, which unfortunately is our weakest area. Ignoring this in the draft could have been our biggest mistake. It could be a difficult year for a rookie coach.

Posted by: Dale | August 24, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I think Bugel said it best, go hug your kids. If you don't have kids, go make some.

It's just a game. A pre-season one at that. Anyone who thought the Skins had the staff and players to be a serious threat this year was kidding themselves.

Having said that, I can't wait until the chants start coming at home games for Colt to play some QB.

Posted by: isnadd | August 24, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I think Bugel said it best, go hug your kids. If you don't have kids, go make some.

Posted by: isnadd | August 24, 2008 10:24 AM

Wow. Just wow.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 10:14 AM

Yep and that non-anonymous name of brownwood makes your points so much more valid. What does McCain or O'Reilly have to do with anything in your argument? Way to show me dude.

The reason I pulled year 2000 is because that was the middle year of 3 consecutive years of Stephen Davis having over 1300 yards. Jansen was a very solid RT and a big part of that. If you can somehow look at these preseason games and see him now completely whiff in pass protection and just look like absolute garbage and find the silver lining I wish I had whatever glasses you were looking through.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Brian Mitchell said in the pregame show that the team would "do/try things last night that they will never do during the season" - well, let's hope he is right! B Mitch said after the game that this game was not what he had in mind.

In trying to find a silver lining..oops, I mean silver "thread" is it at all possible Zorn had them play a horrific game to throw off the Giants?

Yeah, crazy thought....I'm just searching for some kind of ANSWER.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

So...there's no point in even watching this game on NFLN? Awesome, just saved me a couple of hours of my life.

Anyone who thinks this team isn't mediocre has rose-colored glasses on. Just sit back and have some fun. It's going to take another November gut check and rally to back into the playoffs and, unlike St. Joe, it's not remotely assured that Coach Zorn can pull that off.

No predictions on players or starting jobs. Just a prediction that by November, we'll all be cynics and the crucible of criticism that is RI will have burned itself out so that only the hardcore are still around "up here".

Oh, and one last thing since someone mentioned Man Boobs. While it's true that Gregg Williams was kinda jobbed by not getting the head coaching gig in DC, it's also true that he wasn't even considered for any of the other openings in the NFL. So, clearly, it's not just Dan Snyder who was reticent about choosing Double G to run the team. Let that one go.

Have a great rest of the weekend.

Posted by: P Diddy | August 24, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

3-13 here we come!

Posted by: Pretzel Boy | August 24, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Well we got to see Jasno line up a big strike on his keyboard, delivered with gusto and regular season form against the home team. The team stunk for sure and probably deserved it, but I see the trappings in his article of stomping the life out of a victim that is already laying on the floor out cold, where is the honor in that I wonder.

The skins do have big problems. I suggest some fixes;

(1) Stephon Heyer replace John Jansen.
(1A) Start rotating in Rhinehart at Guard
(1B) Keep Todd Wade and Fabini getting reps with the first team.
(2) The whole offensive line needs new motivation/ a new motivator. Samuels, Randy Thomas, Raybach, they don't seem to have much self respect.
(3) Somebody replace trifling Reed Doughty
(4) Search waiver wire for run stuffing safety and run stuffing linebacker. Somebody Proven that can;t make the cut on another team. Rocky looks like crap, Marcus Wash is brittle and washed up, Reed looks like Adam Archy, nobody is scared of "what could be the best secondary in the league," according to some, hmphh.. Smoot, Rogers, Springs give me a break. Rogers is PATHETIC. Granny could do what Jarret did out there. 61 yard runs up through the gut too.
(4) Throw short passes to Cooley and Sellars.
(5) Forget about Rendele EL. He is a failed experiment. He and Thrash simply are not getting open on intermediate and long routes.
(6) Shake everybody up and put Collins out with the starters on the first series against the Jags.
(7) Are you glad we cut the solid proven kick returner we signed in the offseason from Houston? The kick return game looked pathetic and contributed to the blowout.
(8) See if Betts the notorious fumbler will take a restrucutred contract or cut his A$$. Keep Rock and Mason. Sick of the fumbler.

Posted by: DTC | August 24, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Personally, they have to stick with Campbell and be patient, but he has to play better. I'm sure he will with better O-Line play. As I've said before, as long as Joe Bugel is on the team, I do not worry about the O-line. I think last night was a case of a good old fashioned azz whippin. They had no answers for Carolina's intensity.

Why is Steve Smith playing? Makes no sense to me to let him play in the pre-season and suspend him for the regular season.

Posted by: sicwidit | August 24, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the advice, Lisa. I think I'll take my daughter to the park instead.

Jake66, take a deep breath. Samuels is the real deal. The man routinely neutralizes the other team's best pass rusher and is a perennial Pro-Bowler. This is the NFL--even Pro Bolwers get beat from time to time. Besides, this is preseason. I doubt that play happens when the games count.

Jansen is long in the tooth and is probably experiencing the beginning of a very steep drop-off in production. He'll get every opportunity to prove himself (mainly because we've got nothing else), but I think he's coming to the end. But say this tandem is overrated when they haven't really played together much over the last few years is a little out of place.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 9:31 AM

100% on target, Browny. I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I still haven't. I wish I could write that clearly. Thanks.

Posted by: frediefritz | August 24, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

To me it's simple...this team will win if the O-line play well. No one has talked about this, but I am concerned about the WR corps. I can't understand why they feel so comfortable with Thrash, Moss and ARE. Isn't this the same group from last year? Zorn needs to coach the young receivers up. Campbell has to have a big target.

Posted by: sicwidit | August 24, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Mortensen was just on ESPN saying Dr. James Andrews was at the game last night and didn't see Taylor having ligament damage. It is a hyper-extension and he could be back for the opener. He will still have an MRI done to confirm.

Umenyiora on the other hand may be unavailable as his leg locked up and he may at least have cartilage damage.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

anyone remember the Patriots game last year? And we still got to the playoffs

we even beat the Superbowl champs


crap like this happens, and that was in the regular season, this is a meaningless preseason game. And yes, it is MEANINGLESS whether you want to admit it or not!


get over the doom and gloom crap!

Posted by: Reasonable | August 24, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Fix: Offensive line, offensive line.

Some of this "it's the end of the world" stuff is just silly. Not surprising, but still overwrought.

New coach, new system, new bunch of players. It's gonna' take time.

Gibbs was 0-6 remember.

Still, they've got problems along both lines of scrimmage when matched up against more athletic lines.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

"I don't think anyone was criticizing the Landry pick, Rob. I think what jgloo was saying was that this team needs to put more focus on stacking up lineman in the draft instead of trading for expensive quick-fixes."

Exactly.

The reality is the game is won in the trenches and safties are a dime a dozen. Landry is going to be a good player, but unless the d-line can stop anyone it will be a moot point. I REALLY wanted Okoye, but the Redskins and thier flawed thinking thought otherwise and felt a safety was more important.

Same could be said about the o-line. The last time they drafted anyone with a high pick was when they drafted Samuels and Jansen, like 10 years ago?

How valuable does Dockery look now?

Taking nothing away from Bugels past accomplishments, he still thinks he can make a diamond out of a turd like he did 20+ years ago. It doesn't work that way anymore in the NFL. You can either play or you can't.

Sad thing is Cerato will never be fired because he is the owners "yes" man...errr...best friend. Too bad Snyder won't fire himself.

It's going to be a long year.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 24, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Hellooooo is anybody listening???? Dominating teams are built from the inside out, O line and D line first--a concept that has been ignored ever since Vinny and Danny got here and even during the tenure of the exalted but terminally stubborn Joe Gibbs. So this year we drafted three receivers, two of which are unlikely to make any contribution this year. And by the way, Randle El is no number two receiver worth $30 million and if James Thrash who I love to death as a solid citizen and Redskin is the best we have to offer as a number three, we're in big trouble.

I think we are seeing the best that Jason Campbell has to offer. Can anyone refresh my memory of a game that JC brought us back late to win? Sorry folks, this is as good as it's going to get.

The team is SOFT--very good at taking punches but not delivering any.

Posted by: The Voice of Doom | August 24, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Over? Nothing is over until we say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Who's with me?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I was at the game last night and watched and listened to a team and it's fans act and play like it was the f---ing super bowl. The panther fans thought they really had won the super bowl. I really laughed at how stupid they were. Until I just read this. It's 1 MEANINGLESS ore season game. Of course I am reading the blog of a dumb a$$. Why should I think the posters would be any different?

Posted by: I thought panther fans were stupid | August 24, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

"It's 1 MEANINGLESS ore season game."

Actually, pre-season games are very telling. If they can't stop anyone now, how do they expect to be able to stop anyone when ALL of the other teams starters are playing?

Teams like the Patriots get to say "It's one meaningless game." The Redskins do not because they haven't won anything in many years. You don't hear anyone panicing in NE about Tom Brady not playing do you? It's because the guy has three SB rings.

As an above poster mentioned, the Redskins are soft....VERY soft.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 24, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I have a few observations from last night's game.

1. This looks like another year that Skins blow early picks in the draft. Right now Devin Thomas looks slow, awkward and clueless. If he weren't a 2nd rounder, I doubt he makes the team. Who knows what Malcolm Kelly brings, but he will have minimal to no impact his year. Nice job Vinny. If you double-down, you're more likely to go home broke.

2. The D is in big trouble. They're weak up the middle and safety is a huge question mark. How in the world is Reed Daughty a strong safety? Can't hit/tackle and is horrific in coverage. He's definitely on the chopping block

3. Time to start making contingencies for replacing Jon Jansen at tackle. He hasn't shown any ability to stop anyone. O-linemen are known to be effective in their 30s, but maybe this line is particularly old given all their injuries.

4. As genuine, nice and likable a guy Zorn appears to be, listening to his press conferences yields no reassurance. He seems to be intellectually challenged, in over his head and limited in his expertise.

Posted by: M.E.G. | August 24, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

There are alot of variables that aren't considered in the post mortem of preseason games such as last night's. Sure, the Skins lost alot of individual battles (see Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels) that will have to be corrected come opening day. But let's face it, teams do not "game plan" in the traditional sense for the opponent. Do you think Zorn was up until 2am figuring out how to stifle Julius Peppers? Of course not. It's the reason why there is considerable truth to the notion that you can't read much into a preseason game. Cause for a dent to our high flying optimism? Sure. Cause to change your record prediction to 3-13? Absolutely not. Let's wait until all is new and shiny on opening day, and it actually MEANS something, before we start making the usual Skins-fan's knee jerk reactions. Get Well Soon Jason Taylor!

Posted by: SuperSkin | August 24, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Also, I noticed in the previous 3 games, Campbell was pumping or patting the ball, then delivering the ball. I've always thought that was a sign of indecision. He got away with it in the other games b/c there wasn't much of a rush. Well, last night his indecision contributed to several sacks and a turnover. Unfortunately for him, this is a make or break year. If he fails to show marked improvement, and I believe he deserves to play the entire season, the skins will be looking to improve the QB position next year.

Posted by: M.E.G. | August 24, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

You doomsdaying, naysaying haters are hilarious. Am I concerned? Of course, especially if Jason Taylor is lost for the year. We have some issues to address. But people, take a valium. It's one preseason game - to say that we are going 4-12 based on this is absurd. Coach Z will get Campbell straightened out, the lines will be fine (if JT is OK), the young receivers may take time but meanwhile we've got 89, 47, 26 and 82. This is almost the exact same team that went 10-6 last year, plus a Pro Bowl DE. Some may say TC got us to the playoffs...can't say there's not some truth to that, but give 17 some time. All the panicking, all the hating, it needs to take a timeout.

Posted by: NotoriousLMG | August 24, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

,HELLO!! IS ANYBODY OUT THERE? Stop all the doom and gloom i'm here in the Atl wearing my burgundy and gold with pride,Carolina had something to prove after last years dissapointment(they were picked to make the playoffs and beyond). John Fox is on the hot seat along with several players so every game is important,that being said the skins have no excuse this was a wake up call and Zorn needs to let them know it i think what worries me is the depth on this team and the poor choices Vinny made this past draft,i still like the Landry pick, for God's sake don't dump on the kid he's still reeling from Sean's death mentally speaking, Reed Doughty is not the long term answer too much pressure. I am more than a little worried about Jason, a young QB can only adapt for so long too much has been thrown at him. Its too late now but i thought Greg Williams should have been head coach for continuity's sake but that's water under the bridge,Zorn needs to circle the wagons and inspire confidence no panic but he has to let them know a repeat of last night disaster won't be tolerated.

Posted by: DARGREGMAG@AOL.COM | August 24, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse

As an above poster mentioned, the Redskins are soft....VERY soft.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 24, 2008 11:26 AM

This is just crap...just because a team is old and beat up on the o-line and the FO would rather build away from the line of scrimmage, doesn't make the team soft. Do you really think that a Joe Bugel line could be soft? Really? I'd put the heart of Jansen, Samuels, Rabach, Thomas and Kendall up against any other team's starting 5 anyday. Unfortunately, it takes a little more than heart and determination to win at the line of scrimmage, it helps to not have your body fail you like it has Jansen.

You clowns saying this team is soft missed the 2007 season. Yes, there were blown opportunities left and right. They blew at least 6 games by my count and there's no excuse for that team not to win 12 games and the division. But anyone who saw this team make the playoffs last year despite having its best player murdered, its o-line in a shambles, and its starting QB on IR knows that this team is anything but soft.

Pick another argument, there's plenty to make...

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Also, to all the criticism for the O-line...I agree, they need a gut check. Having Bugel back will definitely help. I'm guessing he'll immerse himself in football, doubtlessly his second love after his family, and will help Reinhart a lot who may well be starting by year's end. I think Heyer might too.

Posted by: NotoriousLMG | August 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

NotoriousLMG.......all I have to say is......THANK YOU!!!

Posted by: The sky is NOT falling | August 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

1. This looks like another year that Skins blow early picks in the draft. Right now Devin Thomas looks slow, awkward and clueless. If he weren't a 2nd rounder, I doubt he makes the team. Who knows what Malcolm Kelly brings, but he will have minimal to no impact his year. Nice job Vinny. If you double-down, you're more likely to go home broke.

4. As genuine, nice and likable a guy Zorn appears to be, listening to his press conferences yields no reassurance. He seems to be intellectually challenged, in over his head and limited in his expertise.

Posted by: M.E.G. | August 24, 2008 11:42 AM

Agree with your three other points but both of these are way-premature.

Kelly hasn't even been on the field and Thomas has been slowed by an injury. Too early to write them off.

Coaching is not about press conferences. It's about winning games. Zorn is 3-1 in preseason and undefeated in the regular season.

Posted by: talent evaluator | August 24, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Well said DARGREG and brownwood. Calling this team soft is pure ignorance...although they played soft last night. They will rally - keep the faith Skins Nation...

Posted by: NotoriousLMG | August 24, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

"Taking nothing away from Bugels past accomplishments, he still thinks he can make a diamond out of a turd like he did 20+ years ago. It doesn't work that way anymore in the NFL. You can either play or you can't."


I suppose you missed last season. I'd say he turned a few turds into diamonds. 3 out of 5 on the line was done in the first few games of the season......and we still had a playoff season?!?! I'd say it was Buges finest IMO.

Posted by: Rob M | August 24, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I suppose you missed last season. I'd say he turned a few turds into diamonds. 3 out of 5 on the line was done in the first few games of the season......and we still had a playoff season?!?! I'd say it was Buges finest IMO.

Posted by: Rob M | August 24, 2008 12:00 PM

Well said, Rob. The same people calling the line "soft" are the same ones calling for Jansen to be benched for Heyer--an undrafted kid who showed up looking like a damn cafeteria lunchlady last year. If Buges can turn that Esther Rolle look-a-like into a competent NFL tackle, he should get f-ing Coach of the Year!

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

The sky is NOT falling - great name!

I'll stop piling on here after this, but it is truly amusing how people are willing to call a couple 21 yr old receivers busts after 3 preseason games, one of who hasn't even been on the field yet! That is truly worth a hearty chuckle, which I need after last night....

Same guys will be buying Super Bowl tix after we go to Giants Stadium and beat those G-Men...I didn't realize we had some many bi-polar members of the NatioN!

Posted by: NotoriousLMG | August 24, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I do like Kareem Moore. There's a positive.

Posted by: Cindy | August 24, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Reeeeeeeeeeeeelax, its a freaking pre-season game. Let this crap happen now before it counts.

Posted by: Zap | August 24, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

True talk, LMG. You can't call a guy a bust regardless of position until they've played at least 3 years. These guys haven't even played 3 games. Not everyone is Randy Moss in Year 1. In fact, almost NO ONE is Randy Moss in Year 1, otherwise Randy Moss would have been nothing special in 1998.

I thought they over did it with the receivers in Round 2 (I still don't buy that there wasn't a quality DE or CB in Fred Davis' spot), but it's only a bad draft if those guys can't play and the DEs and CBs available turn into stars. Talk to me about the 2008 draft in 2011.

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

F the preseason games. They don't count.

Posted by: The F Guy | August 24, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Memo to Danny Boy Snyder after your done w/ topping by Mr Cruise please cut the whole team on Tuesday to include all personnel and start from scratch. Your head coach doesnt have a clue.

After that put the Deadskins up for sale and give them the chance to succeed. Deadskins fans shouldnt have to suffer through any more years of the shame of you owning the team hoss.

3-13 is best they can do. O line sucks, Campbeell will never be an average NFL quarterback, Dline is just awful and dances better than they play and the coaching staff should be working 10-12yo gilrs.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 24, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Kareem Moore did look good last night, as did Brooks. A also thought Collins looked better than JC, at least he was getting rid of the ball (even if airballing it to another state).

Posted by: Kelli Johnson Is Hot | August 24, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Memo to Dallas fan above: you poop on my memory every day you show up on a Redskin blog to shoot your mouth off. You belong in prison just like every Dallas fan and player after I left.

Posted by: Tom Landry | August 24, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Is that English?? What is a gilr and who is Campbeell?

Must be a Cowboys fan......another kindergarten dropout.

Posted by: An-on=Mor-on | August 24, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Sorry meant Frost not Brooks.

Posted by: Kelli Johnson Is Hot | August 24, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Like the coach says, "Wheter on offense or defense, it all starts up front." And how many linemen have we drafted over the past few years???

This team is old, slow and breaking down fast. Perhaps we should look for more ways to trade away draft picks for past-their-prime Probowlers. Or better yet, maybe we could get better production out of professional bowlers.

Posted by: Redskinrex | August 24, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

I don't know about using it as a handle here, but Kelli Johnson IS hot...reminds me of how much I miss being back home. In Harrisburg their sports segments consist of a pre-recorded puff piece about Penn State. And maybe an Eagles/Steelers highlight. Then the girls basketball team at some crappy high school. And a 50 year old talking head who's been here since birth delivering it. No hotties like Lindsey Czarniak or Kelli Johnson. Not even a mildly cute chick like Carol Maloney. Enjoy your local sports hotties gentlemen, never take them for granted...

Posted by: brownwood26 | August 24, 2008 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Jansen will be O.K. He's coming off a serious injury and it will probably be mid Sept/Oct before he's at full speed barring no more injuries.
The QB situation is more dire--defenses now know how to play JC--he's not developing or playing as a versatile player would.

Posted by: Vegas fan | August 24, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Do you think the Panthers game planned more than the Skins did?

Still, the offense couldn't perform any of the fundamentals.

Posted by: jgloo | August 24, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Well said Reasonable. I was waiting and hoping that a loss like this owuld come so we could see the real side of the so called "FANS" on this board. Most of you all are fair weather fans.

This team is not going to win the SuperBowl this year anyway and even if they do, they will not go 16 - 0.

Give it a break they are not as bad as they looked las night are wer not as good as most "FANS" thought leading up to the game.

Yeah they stunk up the joint last night, but I'm still onboard as a loyal fans
HTTR!

Posted by: Skip in Va | August 24, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

I have been a fan of the Redskins ever since the days of Sammy Baugh. I have suffered through some lean years and seen some very good ones. The only thing I can say good about this team that is that it is going to make little Danny Snyder (Mr. to the team) unhappy sitting in his box, living in his mansion, and flying back and forth in his personal helicopter. He is the blight. Marshall was a bigot, and Jack Kent Cooke was egotistical, but they didn't bleed the fans and then give the town a poor and uninteresting team.

Posted by: Sooner1 | August 24, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

We lost to a much better team last night
I am thinking last in the East is inour future with 3 to 5 wins. Always there's next season.

Posted by: Dan | August 24, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Same old Jason Campbell. He will cost Zorn his job if he sticks with him. The sad thing is, JC seems to think he is a good QB. He is at Tavaris Jackson level, maybe a notch below. I doubt he could catch on as a backup at most teams.

Posted by: AAA | August 24, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Somebody relay my comments to this football team please.

What is this?!! WHAT KIND OF FOOTBALL IS THIS?!! You've got an offensive line coach in Bugel who just came back to the team 2 days after losing his daughter! AND YOUR GONNA PLAY LIKE THIS FOR HIM?!!! That alone makes me question where this teams heart really is. I mean seriously!

How about the defense?? HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN WHAT HAPPENED A YEAR AGO??!!!! Would Sean Taylor EVER lay down the way our defense did Saturday?? NEVER!! NEVER!! IT'S EMBARRASSING! Completely EMBARASSING! A JOKE! They need to work on their memory and take a good long look deep into themselves. This breaks my heart. God Knows how much this must break Buges heart as if his heart isn't broken enough right now.

This team needs to wake up and wake up fast! I'll go out there and give a better effort than what was given Saturday. THROW ME OUT THERE! Redskin fans are thoroughly embarassed. And so should the football team.

Posted by: Mike Brown | August 25, 2008 3:48 AM | Report abuse

We're going to the Super Bowl !

Posted by: Kid Bro Sweets | August 25, 2008 7:44 AM | Report abuse

I know Jason Campbell is a pocket QB, but I thought he could be a better improviser / scrambler when needed. So far, given what I've seen, I'm wrong. I've been backing Jason Campbell even when people around me (Skins fans) say they don't believe he is our QB of the future. After this Carolina game, (and I know it was only a preseason game), I am starting to have doubts about Jason Campbell. I hope Mr. Campbell can prove all his doubters and critics wrong.

Posted by: Angel | August 25, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

OH GOD DONT GET ME STARTED!!! WTF was up with the O LINE, no pass protection at all!!! The d f--king had to lay down after Jason Taylor got hurt, Carolina scored everytime they touched the damn ball that quarter! Collins, WTF where you doing????? Throwing to the invisible man??????? TERRIBLE! DISGUSTING!

Posted by: Matt P. | August 25, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

please,please,please lets not give Jansen credit for being a great player, he had 3 good years. In my opinion that's not enough return on investment.

Posted by: dre-day86 | August 26, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

It was like watching a train wreck. I couldn't turn away.

Posted by: Shock | August 26, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse

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