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The Practice Report

Jason La Canfora reports:

London Fletcher (foot) and Jon Jansen (knee) are not on the practice field. As he typically does on Wednesdays, Pete Kendall is resting his knees.

...

You'll recall yesterday that we invited you to pick Washington's greatest quarterback. Today, you get a chance to pick the Metro area's greatest coach -- across all sports.

By Cindy Boren  |  December 17, 2008; 1:51 PM ET
 
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Comments

Vinny's show is back Friday, i hope someone asks him why he is hanging his coach out to dry. Letting Zorn take the blame for this pathetic roster is a joke.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 1:37 PM

What is pathetic about this roster?

I think too much blame has been put on the line as a whole instead of focusing on the exact issues within the line.

Outside rush has been killing us all year. Sameuls and Thomas have played through their injuries instead of taking a few games off to fully heal. And Jansen should never had started once Heyer was healthy, BUT THAT WAS ZORN;S FAULT NOT VINNY.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse

And Jansen should never had started once Heyer was healthy, BUT THAT WAS ZORN;S FAULT NOT VINNY.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't that have been Buges' call? Or do you think Zorn would just overrule him on line matters?

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 1:59 PM |

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 2:00 PM | Report abuse

3 years from now, the OL will likely have turned over completely. You can't do this all at once, unless you're good with being 3-13 and needing 5 QBs to get you thru the season.

So the question is: who goes when? You need to make minimum of 1 or max of 2 changes a year for the next 3 years. The question of who goes and who stays is about 2 factors. First, which guys are playing well enough to get you another year? Second, who do we have as a replacement?

The second question doesn't get answered until after the draft and free agency.

Samuels is the ONLY guy I know I want back for next year. Jansen is the ONLY guy I know needs to go. Randy Thomas as a Pro Bowl alternate? I didn't see it. Rabach got torched against the better defenses. Kendall? Don't know.

Obviously the cap plays into all this, but the OL rebuild is issue #1.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Outside rush has been killing us all year. Sameuls and Thomas have played through their injuries instead of taking a few games off to fully heal. And Jansen should never had started once Heyer was healthy, BUT THAT WAS ZORN;S FAULT NOT VINNY.........

Posted by: DaReal4th

Wrong on all accounts Duhreal.

If Samuesl and Thomas took a few games off to heal, who would replace them? The problem is the lack of quality depth! This is due to the FO, not HC. If you want to blame a coach, how about Joe Bugel? He's in charge of the O-line.
Jansen is done, IMHO too, but Heyer isn't as good at the run blocking as is needed. That's not Zorn's fault. The team he inherited is due to the FO, not Zorn. Give him a few years to build his roster and then we'll see.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 17, 2008 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for that Fletcher post. He isn't happy about being overlooked. He's a team guy, but at some point, its about personal pride and respect from others. I'd take 45 guys with Fletcher's attitude. Be a winning team.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

dspinx

The top OT to date are

Andre Smith
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
Michael Oher

I think the skins should be in line for either Monroe or Oher. I think the skins could trade back to the bottom of the 1st, top of the 2nd a get a good OT.

Posted by: TWISI | December 17, 2008 2:01 PM

Posted by: TWISI | December 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

There are only 2 obvious keeps for next year along the starting o-line this year:

Chris Samuels
Randy Thomas

These two should be in consideration, but also in deep jeopardy of losing their job (or not being re-signed):

Casey Rabach
Pete Kendall

Should be gone for sure:

Jansen

Obviously the cap will play into this, as well as the ability of Vinny to draft (or the luck of having the "best player available" be an offensive lineman).

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The Skins chances of making the playoffs stands at 0.8%, 3.4% if they win out.

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NFL/NFC/East/Redskins.html


Posted by: tedunni1 | December 17, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 1:55 PM

I don't really give a shti about the Eagles but since 2004 we have been to the playoffs 2x while they went once. We both have a wild card win. They have essentially been a .500 same as the Skins except we had the 5-11 debacle in 2006. I do hope we beat them to ruin there playoff dreams Sunday but I doubt it will happen.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

The Skins ran better with Jansen at RT and Heyer is still learning to play RT -- he's a natural LT. However, Jasen looked like a turnstile against the better rushing defenses. In the past, he excelled at both pass and run blocking. Jansen and Samuels were "bookend" tackles.

It would be nice to know what's going on...

Did Jansen heal completely from the ankle injury or is he getting old after 10 years of wear and tear in the trenches? He had trouble pass blocking bull and speed rushers. And he appears to have lost his lateral quickness.

Posted by: siris | December 17, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Going out on a limb and stating Pete Kendle will be resting his knees every wednesday for the rest of his life.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 17, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Dude is old as dirt

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

It's Zorn's fault that our D-line is so bad that the opposing quarterback has all day long to complete a pass into the secondary.

It's Zorn's fault that the O-line is falling apart from old age and injuries without sufficient backups.

Snyderatto did NOT screw Zorn over on coaches, WCO QB, O-line and D-line. It's all Zorn's fault...

Posted by: Doublebagger | December 17, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

jason, no one was asking you to give a rip about the eagles. The point was that people on here keep saying that the WCO offense can't work in the NFC East, which is categorically incorrect. Thats all.

Those who are going to come back with the weak arguement that the Eagles never won the Super Bowl, great, but weak, that doesn't change the fact that they were SUCCESSFUL running the WCO, and they were LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Redskins.


Last post on that subject...don't let facts change your opinion corky...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

It is real simple guys. We need to keep Hall, tell J Taylor if he wants to stay around it will be at the minimum. He shouldn't have a problem since he gave us zero production. We need to keep the secondary the same. The main focus for the redskins should be to sign AlbertHanyesworth, and sign a quality offensive lineman. Then we should use the draft for offensive lineman first, then defensive lineman, and we also need a few quality linebackers. Washington can't stay healthy and is old, and Rocky looks like his health will not hold up. It is that simple.

Posted by: fbailey | December 17, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

How the team handles the OL transition will be the #1 factor in how the Skins go thru the next 3 seasons. Do it poorly and it'll be 4-12. Do it well and you might see 8-8.

There are other near term transitions to handle. Defensive end and LB are two that are close-in. The picture at WR is just as fuzzy now as it was in January.

Reality is simple. The OL is the engine and when it doesn't work, this team doesn't work. I've estimated we'll need to change out 15 of our top 30 players, mostly due to age, within 3 years.

Fixing the OL and addressing the other issues is going to be a big job. Unfortunately, the job at hand is a lot bigger than the guy who is doing that job now.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

What's that football stats site everyone up here uses? I want to see where Jason Campbell ranks at getting sacked, or more accurately, how the Skins offensive line ranks at allowing the QB to be sacked.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

there is NO WAY, NO WAY this team beats the iggles. NO F'in WAY!!! you guys are dellusional if you think this team will beat the iggles OR the 9ers. this team sucks!!!! and will continue to suck as long as vinny is here.

if someone wants to challenge that statement then put up some coin....no odds, straight up...just say yes, and i'll make it happen.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I don't really give a shti about the Eagles but since 2004 we have been to the playoffs 2x while they went once. We both have a wild card win. They have essentially been a .500 same as the Skins except we had the 5-11 debacle in 2006. I do hope we beat them to ruin there playoff dreams Sunday but I doubt it will happen.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 2:13 PM

I was replying to 4th's assertion that the Iggles have done nothing since TO left (in 2005/6). He was wrong on that.

You are wrong on the above assertion. If you go back to 2004 to compare the Iggles went to the 2004/5 Super Bowl so the record is even more unbalanced in their favo(u)r.

Not trying to dig at you, just trying to keep things straight - I know you guys have no love for them but if you'd had the same level of success as the Iggles the last 4-5 years you'd be waaaay happier than you are now.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

It seems like both in the draft and FA wise the Redskins have been way below par compared to the past.

Me thinks things need to change at the top and a long-term organizational plan put in place. In other words. Go and develop with youth. Wait for cap space to become available. Then carefully pick and choose the right FA's.

I would say keep Hall and Springs. Seems unlikely as both will likely decide to leave.
Perhaps Rogers as well. Then its time for wholesale house cleaning.

Posted by: periculum | December 17, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"there is NO WAY, NO WAY this team beats the iggles. NO F'in WAY!!! you guys are dellusional if you think this team will beat the iggles OR the 9ers. this team sucks!!!! and will continue to suck as long as vinny is here.

if someone wants to challenge that statement then put up some coin....no odds, straight up...just say yes, and i'll make it happen.

Posted by: dealer1 "


I think we could beat the 49ers

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

After seeing Jansen make a huge mental error on the 4th and 1 vs the NYG (he blocked no one and his guy got Portis in the backfield), I simply don't know what he brings. Can he run block on occasion? Yes. Can he pass block? No. Is he supersmart? No.

Jansen is the first to go. My guess is he is the only OL to go this offseason because of cap issues.

Heyer didn't seem to get better in year 2. Disappointing, because he had the job.

There is no pretty solution here.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

"I would say keep Hall and Springs. Seems unlikely as both will likely decide to leave.
Perhaps Rogers as well. Then its time for wholesale house cleaning.


Posted by: periculum "

I expect both of them to sign long contracts myself...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

I may be 4th. lol

B I was so pissed at what I was seeing I hit the wrong key. Still can't get over not giving CP the ball on the 1 yard line.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

if someone wants to challenge that statement then put up some coin....no odds, straight up...just say yes, and i'll make it happen.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:23 PM

No spread? Chicken.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

anyone notice how boudreau with half a lineup expects them to compete and win? zorn apologizes for his guys

Posted by: Caps09 | December 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I think the entire offensive line starting with Randy Thomas and Samuels may have to be replaced. Look at this way. You get another young tackle or two given the knee issues one would envision Samuels and Kendall as backups. Thomas is still worth something as a starter and could possibly be traded.

At this point it seems clear that a draft that features OL makes sense. The draft is purportedly deep with them. On DL I think its time to change to a 3-4 like most of the other successful defenses have. Athletic linebackers and safeties combined with great corners make more sense in the pass rush perhaps?

Let Portis go. Go with Betts and youth. Maybe start over with the wide outs except for Moss.
They probably do need another QB. Making McNabb very, very tempting to Vinnie and Snyder if they were thinking about a few changes to do a playoff run. Imagine Campbell being tutored by McNabb. But if you are going with youth it would have to be reasonably high draft pick.

Posted by: periculum | December 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

dealer, the spread is 5 points ... the over/under is 38.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

periculum, we can't let Portis go. It's literally almost impossible with his contract.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

and PS like it or not we need to draft ERIC BERRY in the 2010 draft


best safety ever

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

If the Eagles don't resign Jon Runyan he may be a guy we could use as a 1 year stopgap if we can not draft or sign someone better. He is older than Jansen but has held up a hell of a lot better.

And Redcoat since after their Super Bowl year I wouldn't trade places with them. 2000-2004 no doubt. That being said F the eagles.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I think the entire offensive line starting with Randy Thomas and Samuels may have to be replaced. ...

Let Portis go. Go with Betts and youth. Maybe start over with the wide outs except for Moss.

Posted by: periculum | December 17, 2008 2:32 PM

Good plan. Five offensive linemen and two backs ... all named Priest Holmes.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

cindy ty for letting me stay

Posted by: Caps09 | December 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

periculum, we can't let Portis go. It's literally almost impossible with his contract.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 2:34 PM

Not to mention the possible unavailability of Priest Holmes.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Sween, JC is 5th in getting sacked(34).

Cassel NE is 1st (44) followed by big ben PIT (41).

Kerry Collins (Ten) is 32nd (7).

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Only reason I'm not giving the odds is cuz I have no idea what's going on with the iggles and 9ers might be playing for the draft standings....but I'm pretty certain skins will lose both of them

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

we need to cut springs and get ALBERT HAYNESWORTH. no brainer. seriously.

Posted by: parasonic | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

What's with all the Hanyesworth talk? didn't he tear up his knee last week?

Posted by: mack1 | December 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

You guys better keep dreaming...

SERIOUSLY. What makes you think Vinny and the FO is really going to cut ties with our old Dirtbags if they are still under contract... They'll probably try to restructure Jansen contract and make and guarantee more on the back end like they alwasy do.... BRILLIANT!

I won't believe or think any of this will happen until it does... DOES it NEED TO? HELL YES? But they have been unwilling to suck it up the past several years, so are they finally smart enough to do it.... I guess we'll see...

They need to come to grips with Reality. PERIOD. No more, we're a player or 2 away... BS, BS, BS, BS!!!!!

F'ing BS.

Posted by: EinVB | December 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

The Caps are nice. Stanley Cup over the Red Wings w/i five years hopefully....

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"It's Zorn's fault that the O-line is falling apart from old age and injuries without sufficient backups.

Snyderatto did NOT screw Zorn over on coaches, WCO QB, O-line and D-line. It's all Zorn's fault...

Posted by: Doublebagger"

No, it's Zorns fault he left the worst pass-blocker on the team as a starter for 10 weeks. It's Zorn's fault that he calls a play that leaves a back-up center 1 vs 1 against a perennial pro-bowl pass-rusher in protection. It's Zorn's fault for calling 4 yard routes when 7 yards are needed for the 1st down. It's Zorn's fault for consistently saying "if we had only connected on a few big plays, we could have won the game" when anybody can draw up a "big play" and think it will work with high percentage efficiency, even though that is clearly not the case with any team.

It's Snyderrato's fault for hiring Zorn.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

stop this haynesworth talk he is in the prime of his career and would probably only give us 1 good year, he is 27 and after his 1 good year he will be going on 29 going into his second season with us.
go after suggs and dansby and draft a DT, a big run stuffing DT.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

What's that football stats site everyone up here uses? I want to see where Jason Campbell ranks at getting sacked, or more accurately, how the Skins offensive line ranks at allowing the QB to be sacked.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:22 PM |

They have given up 34 sacks not sure were this ranks but it is not good.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Some humor from the Redskins blog to lighten the mood:

Portis talking about Mike making the PB

Portis resumed, more seriously, “You know he deserves it…. You know, you’re talking about a guy who comes to work every day, banged up, anything, he never misses practice, gonna give it all he got…. He deserves it.”

Then he stopped being serious for a bit (I hope). “I can see Mike on the beach. You know, he’s always up on these little underwear in the locker room, and, as big as he is, he and Jason Campbell got the smallest underwear you can find…. So I can see Mike, 280 [pounds], just streaking down the beach with a little bikini on, playing Frisbee or something with the locals. I’m sure he’ll have a blast.”

Later on, the questioning turned to Coach Zorn’s much-repeated assertion that he feels like the “worst coach in America,” and Portis was bluntly supportive of his head coach.

“I mean, basically we’re a team,” he said. “It’s not Coach Zorn. It’s not one single person you can point out to take the blame for what happened. I think we win as a team, we lose as a team.”


Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

And Jansen should never had started once Heyer was healthy, BUT THAT WAS ZORN;S FAULT NOT VINNY.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't that have been Buges' call? Or do you think Zorn would just overrule him on line matters?

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 1:59 PM

Zorn is of course. He is the head coach...

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Sween, JC is 5th in getting sacked(34).

Cassel NE is 1st (44) followed by big ben PIT (41).

Kerry Collins (Ten) is 32nd (7).

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

To sum up:

Wrong! You're all delusional. Stop talking about this and that....It's so simple. Here's what they NEED to do...... As long as Snyderattto runs the blah blah blah.....End of story. I guarantee it. I drive a Dodge Stratus. BIG TIME STUFF!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

“I mean, basically we’re a team,” he said. “It’s not Coach Zorn. It’s not one single person you can point out to take the blame for what happened. I think we win as a team, we lose as a team.”

------------

Though if you were pointing a finger, Jansen could be in line with said finger.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

skins need to cut their whole D-line and buy USC's D-line.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Sween, JC is 5th in getting sacked(34).

Cassel NE is 1st (44) followed by big ben PIT (41).

Kerry Collins (Ten) is 32nd (7).

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM |

Difference is those QB's still make alot of plays down the field, they get sacked more because they are looking to go down the field.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

skins need to sign ben wallace

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I love the Caps, but Caps09 lets not antagonize huh? I think no one is delusional that the skins stink is not top down...

And while I think the Caps resurgence has lessons for the Skins the situations are different.

1. No lock-out/new CBA to radically change the rules (yet anyway....ask 4th about uncapped year...)

2. Leoniss should be commended for long range plan...BUTT he did almost destroy the franchise in the process. Gamble is paying off, but there was some very dark days.

3. The Redskins don't have the luxury of being "forgotten" by the public. That ho hum attitude towards the caps by the public allowed them the breathing space to scrap and rebuild. Now the fans are coming back in droves, again Leoniss won that bet.

4. Snyder is no Leoniss.

5. Skins aren't bad enough to stockpile top picks like Caps did.

6. Alex Ovetchkin of Football isn't walking trough the door, plus football less of a one dude as difference maker type game.

That said, I agree Caps09...The Caps rule and being a fan of theirs is an honor and a privledge!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

skins need to draft a big WR.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

skins need to cut their whole D-line and buy USC's D-line.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Post of the day! while you're at it, get their O-line too.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

didn't he tear up his knee last week? Posted by: mack1

mack, that's what promted the discussion.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Guys, the Eagles haven't won a championship since 1945. Redskins - 1991.

I'd rather be where we are now, than where the Eagles are now.

They have a declining QB, a RB who basically IS their offense. And a mini Santana.

There's no big difference.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

I am going to laugh my ass off seeing all the Eagles' fans at FedEx. It will be worse than the Steelers game !

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Guys, the Eagles haven't won a championship since 1945. Redskins - 1991.

I believe they won in 60 or 61.....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 17, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Guys, the Eagles haven't won a championship since 1945. Redskins - 1991.

I'd rather be where we are now, than where the Eagles are now.

They have a declining QB, a RB who basically IS their offense. And a mini Santana.

There's no big difference.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 2:55 PM


Have you been drinking? There is no big difference? That goes to show yoou how out of touch you Skins' fans are...hilarious

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

4th, i'd take andy reid and their personnel dude over ours. don't forget the superbowl or any other major game iggles played it was ALWAYS mcnaab who choked. he's a much better coach than the chin.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

caps09 there is only one hockey team to route for...hartford whalers, now that is a team managed to the fullest

Posted by: connskins | December 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

The reason Jansen kept starting over Heyer is pretty obvious.

The players overruled Zorn and got their guy back in over the undrafted rookie.

Zorn was the one who wanted Jansen benched, but it's obvious to see the players cried and moaned and got their boy back on the starting line.

And he sucks.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Eagles 17, GB 14 - 1960 NFL Championship. Norm Van Brocklin starting QB, Jurgey the backup.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Sween, JC is 5th in getting sacked(34).

Cassel NE is 1st (44) followed by big ben PIT (41).

Kerry Collins (Ten) is 32nd (7).

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM

So teams with better records then us have had their QB sacked more than JC??

Ha! This is more damming against Zorn than the Oline.

Also, per above, when has Kendell ever been called out this year?

AND why do you guys think that Heyer isn't a capable starter at RT or LT? Didn't he play the whole season dang near??

You guys are crazier than me. I atleast come up with rational stuff, and don't dream in wonderland.......

Sameuls - Staying for AT LEAST 3-4 more years.
Kendell - Still a starter.
Rabach - Where's the beef? One bad game dosn't doom a carrer.
Thomas - Had some injury issues, but is still a top 15 RG in this league.
Jansen - Needs to go to the bench.

ON THE BENCH of importance ---

Heyer - Ready to start at RT or LT.
Rinehart - Unknown comodidity with upside
Geisinger - Should get a few years to learn before having to start.
Fabini - Servicable back up Gaurd/Tackle

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

The players overruled Zorn and got their guy back in over the undrafted rookie.

T1, are you real? or has the RI blog gone all AI on us and developed you for hating on jlaca, it's owner?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Skins Power Chart:

1. Danny Boy
2. Vinny
3. Star Players
4. Jim Zorn (Head Coach)

Posted by: Doublebagger | December 17, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"T1, are you real? or has the RI blog gone all AI on us and developed you for hating on jlaca, it's owner?

Posted by: dealer1 "

My comment had nothing to do with this blog or JLC

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I think CP and Zorn need to read this daily!

Prayer for Peace
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

Amen.

--St. Francis of Assisi (1181-1226)

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

its owner not it's owner! grrrrrrr!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Realness1, thanks for the getting sacked data. Not really what I expected. I was thinking the Skins would have been closer to the middle of the pack. [I knew that Big Ben got dropped alot ... when he gets sacked, he also seemed to get thrown down hard ... same with Eli ... doesn't seem like either of them protect themselves well ... or that sacking defenders really dislike them.]

Since its kick the O-line day up here, what has the O-line's contribution been to not scoring in the red zone? 20% responsible? 50%? 80%? All their fault?

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

5. Fans
6. Jason LaCanfora

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:11 PM | Report abuse

So teams with better records then us have had their QB sacked more than JC??

Ha! This is more damming against Zorn than the Oline.

Does JC not have any responsibility for some of those sacks? I think he does.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

alrigt T1.

has anyone seen that "day the earth stood still"???? is it worth $10?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Have you been drinking? There is no big difference? That goes to show yoou how out of touch you Skins' fans are...hilarious

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 2:58 PM |

Ok smarty. Say, westbrook has a carrer ending injury.

The Eagles would be right where we are.

Ofcourse there's a difference. But, there isn't a big difference. The difference comes with time in the system.

That's why I was against firing Norv. We had good continuity (before Deon was brought in)....

Seriously, I don't want what the Eagles have. Close, but no cigar......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

You guys are crazier than me.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:07 PM

Than I.

Also, I think Rabach has slipped since previous years. I don't think he can handle ANY DT alone, regardless of whether its against a 3-4 or 4-3. [I only say this from the scoring/grading that that dillweed guy does on postgameheroes.com]

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Sadly we cannot blow things up b/c of cap implications.

I wish JLA would look into how cutting players in the offseason prior to 2010 season if it is uncapped.

The only way to get out of our current situ is if that is possible.

Otherwise players that should probably go wont, and we will have to back load contracts continually to stay competitive and the whole viscous cycle repeats.

I think it is time to say bye to these players

CP - good back, not breaking a long one, we need a young stud
MW - no brainer
JT - No brainer
AC - just taking up space. we could really use the time he spends not tackling or sacking on a young player to see if they can be good
Moss - His best days are gone, the hammy still lingers. get something while we can.
JJ - obvi
Kendall - old
Rocky - Get value before his knees completely give out
Springs - too bad he cant stay healthy, cause he really is a beast
Smoot - We need to groom a #2 behind rodgers and hall
Plack and Swish - they are not the answer

Obviously this all cant be done, but we need to get better and younger at each position...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 17, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

4th, i'd take andy reid and their personnel dude over ours. don't forget the superbowl or any other major game iggles played it was ALWAYS mcnaab who choked. he's a much better coach than the chin.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:00 PM

Dealer - Thir all in it together. There personnel isn't as great as it appears.

Again, they have more continuity than us (and a better QB). That's it....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

And a good case in point is the titans... the got rid of everyone except Bullock and drafted smart. Good FA pick ups as well.

Posted by: Zeebs | December 17, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

Again, they have more continuity than us (and a better QB). That's it....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:18 PM

Than we.

I'm thinking I want to take dealer's money on this game. It would be 100% NFC East-like for the Skins to spoil it for the Eagles. One team out (and relaxed, having fun, playing football) ... the other team NEEDING to win in their final two games. Eagles have a habit of choking in the clutch. I can just feel it.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

4th, yeah you're right...as soon as i typed that i thought of the year when they selected 3 or 4 CB's cuz they needed a CB and still didn't hit on any of them (lito is worse than rogers).

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Sproles is apparently gonna be avail...westbrook type, return man... we need that type of dynamic play maker. That is of course if we keep the WCO and SD lets him go...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 17, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Ok smarty. Say, westbrook has a carrer ending injury.

The Eagles would be right where we are.


4th disagree completly. When Portis went down 2 years ago, Betts stepped in and performed in as good a manner, or better, than Portis had been.

If Westbrook goes down, Correll Buckhalter would be a dramatic step back....

Betts is a much better player than Correll...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

sween, yes, mcnaab chokes but are you telling me they could be any worse than the bengals even with mcnaab choking? and also we owe it to the iggles for 2005(?).

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Cindy posted a link to an article about the Chiefs and Carl Peterson in the previous thread. Good article. But more interesting are some of the parallels to us. Including how things went downhill after Marty went away.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Didn't he tear up his knee last week? Posted by: mack1

mack, that's what promted the discussion.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

He tears up his knee and now people up here are clamoring for him? Vinny is everywhere.

Posted by: mack1 | December 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Whether Zorn is a keeper as coach or not, the fact remains that this team took THREE receivers as the top draft picks on Day 1 and NOT ONE of the three was able to get on the field and prove they belong in the NFL.

Who is going to win with a front office producing those kinds of results?

The key to the ability of a Parcells to turn things around is as much his ability to evaluate TALENT as it is to coach it.

That's how the Dallas Cowboys built themselves up over the past 4-5 years.

Don't think for a second that Jerry Jones would have found Ware, Ratliff, etc. on his own in the draft.

Before Parcells got to Dallas Jones had done a horrible job of overseeing the draft.

Jones' move to trade #1, #3 and #6 picks to the Lions for Roy Williams is an example of a move Parcells would NEVER have made.

You can find a productive receiver in free agency or in the mid-rounds of the draft.

Use the early picks on key OL, DL, QB and CB.

Posted by: leopard09 | December 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I like Sproles a lot. Had him on my FF team and he was a disaster because Norv never got him the ball. So Sproles sat on my bench.

Sproles had 2 huge games when Norv decided to include him. Which is why Norv is going to get fired ... again.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I think we could beat the 49ers

Posted by: TheTruth11

I'll be there to eyewitness it. Anyone else going?

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Was it raced based? Because I thought that is all that Jason Whitlock does now?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

No to getting Sproles, though I do like the guy.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

In the comment section on pft.com's blurb about London Fletcher b!tching about the Pro Bowl, lots of Fletcher bashing ... maybe not lots, but plenty ... and lots of commenters using the phrase "unfortunate, but that's the way it is."

If I recall SMACK's translation of tired lines, "it is what it is" roughly translates to "I don't know what it is."

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"I think we could beat the 49ers

Posted by: TheTruth11

I'll be there to eyewitness it. Anyone else going?

Posted by: TheCork |"

No way a real man like myself steps foot in San Francisco.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

The mumble about Carl Peterson's replacement as KC GM is ... Vermeil. That would be a downright Parcellian move.

Bottom line: I agree that a GM has to have some skills at identifying talent ... either as a scout ... or a coach ... maybe even a former college coach ... probably not as a racquetball partner ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Just to contradict my "former-coach-means-good-GM" line, I remembered that the Bills had the same success to start, followed by steep decline this season as the Skins. Which mean V. Cerrato is better than Marv Levy.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Little Prick Danny needs to give Jansen a long term contract extension, give Portis even more money, and fire Zorn!

It would only be in keeping with strategy so far in running the Redskins into the ground.

LPD needs to go.....or the Skins have ZERO Super Bowls in their future.

Posted by: knight1977 | December 17, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Sween, JC is 5th in getting sacked(34).

Cassel NE is 1st (44) followed by big ben PIT (41).

Kerry Collins (Ten) is 32nd (7).

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 2:38 PM

The guy to replace Joe Bugel (when Joe is ready to call it a career) ...

http://www.titansonline.com/team/coaches/staff.php?PRKey=6

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

A simple way to look at a position is this. Is there a problem, or have we solved the problem? By position, here is what I think about which positions are problems for 2009, and the positions where the problem is solved.

Special teams
Kick returner: Solved
Punt returner: Problem (though I think Rock solves the problem)
FG Kicker: Problem
Punter: Problem

Offense
RT: Problem
RG: Problem
C: Problem
LG: Problem
LT: Solved
QB: Solved
RB: Solved
TE: Solved
WR: 2 solved, 1 problem

Defense
DE: 1 problem, 1 solved
DT: 1 problem, 1 solved
MLB: solved
OLB: 1 problem, 1 solved
CB: 2 Solved
Safety: 2 solved

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

It is what it is, or is it?


Q: I cringe every time I hear someone say, "It is what it is." This phrase is ridiculous and it fails to add any substance to a conversation. It was bad enough when I heard it only from friends and students, but now I hear it on the news, even on NPR. What is its origin? And when will it disappear?

A: This annoying and insipid expression (and it's older than you think) has gotten a lot of attention in the last few years, often from people who are just as irritated by it as you are.

Gary Milhoces, in a December 2004 article in USA Today, picked “It is what it is” as the No. 1 sports quote of 2004, but noted that it wasn’t new even then. “Although the origin is uncertain,” he wrote, “it has been around for years.”

In March 2006, William Safire devoted his On Language column in the New York Times Magazine to the mushrooming usage. The first published reference Safire could find came from a 1949 column by J.E. Lawrence in the Nebraska State Journal.

Here’s an excerpt from Lawrence's column, describing the way pioneer life molded character: “New land is harsh, and vigorous, and sturdy. It scorns evidence of weakness. There is nothing of sham or hypocrisy in it. It is what it is, without apology."

Safire likened the expression to Popeye's "I yam what I yam." If it was mushrooming two years ago, when he wrote about it, it's a mushroom cloud today. But the online version of the Oxford English Dictionary still doesn’t have any citations for it.

In 2007, the Creative Group, a California company representing marketers and advertisers, surveyed clients nationwide and asked them to choose the most annoying and overused of their industry's clichés. They chose "it is what it is," along with "outside the box," "synergy," "low-hanging fruit," and others.

http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/01/it-is-what-it-is-or-is-it.html

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

As one of the Bay Area locals ... its time to start figuring out who'll be here for the finale in SF. The Skins are 2-0 at Candlestick when I'm there.

Be warned, the weather can be ugly at that time of year at the Stick.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

David Stewart, Jake Scott, Kevin Mawae, Eugene Amano, Mike Roos. OK, I've heard of Jake Scott (former Colt) ... and Kevin Mawae is the players' union president. But those other three are all Titan draft picks. Stewart (4th round, 2nd pick). Amano (7th round, 3rd compensatory draft pick). Roos (2nd round) ... OK, one second rounder.

Still, fewest sacks allowed this season. How are the Titans doing this year again?

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th, for one of the few times I'll applaud a grammar contribution to this blog

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"No way a real man like myself steps foot in San Francisco.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse "

Wow.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Truth - what kind of real man is that? A homophobe? Insecure are we?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 17, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

cL, i'm telling you T1 was created by this blog. it's ALIVE and punishing us for hating on its owner, jlaca.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Truth - what kind of real man is that? A homophobe? Insecure are we?

Posted by: Rypien11


Nothing gay about Hell.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 17, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

WR: 2 solved, 1 problem

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 3:44 PM

Coach zcezcest, that analysis requires the math to add up to 3, not 5.

Also, Skins need to let Landry play strong safety ... so not sure they are OK on "safety" ... and neither Marcus or Rocky is "well."

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"Truth - what kind of real man is that? A homophobe? Insecure are we?

Posted by: Rypien11"

Actually it's about their hippyness, not their sexuality.

But interesting to know where your mind is.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"Bottom line: I agree that a GM has to have some skills at identifying talent ... either as a scout ... or a coach ... maybe even a former college coach ... probably not as a racquetball partner ...

Posted by: dcsween"

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say that Vinny's actual talent identifying isn't a problem.

It's his elementary GMing philosophies.

It's believing that the "best player available" is the best way to draft, even though there isn't a GM in the league that can identify with any consistent accuracy who the actual best player is that's available.

It's his belief that linemen shouldn't be taken high during the draft.

It's his insistence to prioritize building from the outside-in, players furthest from the line of scrimmage being his highest priority.

It's his devaluing of draft picks, and overvaluing of talent that's been successful with other teams, particularly older talent.

It's his lack of a discernible plan, opting to keep 10 draft picks one year, but trade away 3 draft picks the next.

Again, it's not his actual evaluation of talent that's the problem. It's everything else.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

I mean 5, not 3.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

sorry about that T1.

cL, that was posted by T11 not T1.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 3:57 PM | Report abuse

What's that football stats site everyone up here uses? I want to see where Jason Campbell ranks at getting sacked, or more accurately, how the Skins offensive line ranks at allowing the QB to be sacked.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

dc, go to www.nfl.com, click on "stats", team stats, offensive stats, click on stats at the top of the column, and it will sort on sacks allowed by team. We are ranked about 20th, right along with Buffalo, seattle and KC.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 17, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

map, map...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

there is NO WAY, NO WAY this team beats the iggles. NO F'in WAY!!! you guys are dellusional if you think this team will beat the iggles OR the 9ers. this team sucks!!!! and will continue to suck as long as vinny is here.

if someone wants to challenge that statement then put up some coin....no odds, straight up...just say yes, and i'll make it happen.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

If the Bungles and Lams can beat the skins, the we can beat the iggles. Not saying it is going to happen, wouldn't bet on it. Nor would I have bet on Lams and Bungles. Just saying, such as, we can win.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 17, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

psps23, I don't think he actually does the talent evaluation either ... I think it funnels up through a committee ... rather than having the chops to evaluate guys directly himself. But I agree that there are plenty of other talent acquisition problems. You mentioned some of the big ones. You forgot the one about taking a flier on "pre-existing conditions," e.g., injuries (Kelly, McIntosh), attitude/ego (Lloyd, Deion), as well as "paying it forward," i.e., paying based on performance aspirations rather than actual performance* (Lloyd, Archuleta, Carter) ...

* I recognize that Fletcher diminishes this criticism a little. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop on D'Angelo Hall, though admittedly, so far, so good ... makes me think he's not planning on sticking around.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Its never going to get any better Deadskin fans. danny Boy is more interested in the bottom line than in winning. also he still hasnt beat Vinny the Gerbil yet in pocket pool.

Until you all get a new owner the deadskins at best will be mediocre.

So all you Deadskin fans need to go see Santa this weekend and ask for a new owner and for reporters who dont tell it like it is.
I am sure you miss the bad ole days during Saint Joe's first reign
when the the WP Sports reporters never criticized.

Posted by: omarthetentmaker | December 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

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