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The Vick Question

Timeout for a purely philosophical question about Michael Vick.

By Cindy Boren  |  May 20, 2009; 12:28 PM ET
 
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Comments

No, no, a thousand times no.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I can buy the debate that Dog fighting should be legalized. I don't think it could, but there's an argument to be made.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 20, 2009 12:13 PM

What is the argument? That animal cruelty rocks? Vick picked absolutely the wrong crime to commit. If he had backrolled cock fighting he probably would have been fined a few $ and gotten a stern lecture from PETA. But dog fighting? People spend $50 billion/yr on dogs. They leave them money in their wills. There are TV shows about dogs. Starlets and celebrities dote on them and carry them around everywhere. He is never going to recover from this debacle. Better he should have axe murdered some vagrant, homeless, drifter child molester.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

43% of the people believe in Vick.

56% of the people believe Vick should remain unemployed.

1% of the people don't give a care about this shissue.

Put Moe in the last group.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I have no problem with Vick. He gives us an option at qb should JC not return next season. Until they work him in to the offense, they could use him to run gimmick plays instead of ARE.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | May 20, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Forget the negative stigma for a second. Vick's been sitting on his arse the last two years, maybe pumping some iron occasionally but getting essentially zero cardio exercise other than running in circles in the prison yard for a few minutes a day.

There's no way he's anywhere near football shape. And he's not so young anymore, meaning he's got his work cut out for him to get back into playing shape.

A bigger question is could he even make a team right now?

Posted by: RambleOn | May 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Dog= Mans best friend

or

Man= Dogs best friend

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

The fact that I don't want Vick has nothing to due with his criminal record or the dog fighting.....it has to do with the fact that he is the most overrated football player in the history of the NFL.

Posted by: BiggeeC | May 20, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a lock that somebody will take a chance on Vick, he's just too friggin' talented.

And my guess is his first job, his rehab job, will be in a situation with some stability in the front office and lots of character in the dressing room -- say, the Patriots -- where he can just be a wildcatty puzzle piece and not be in the spotlight from the start. Not one of the teams in disarray.

And not the Skins. We'll be the second team he signs with, after that first team lets him go. We're going to give him gigantic bucks. It's going to be terrific.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

NFL owners are a conservative bunch. I'd be surprised if any is willing to risk losing fans (ie ticket sales) in the middle of a recession over Michael Vick.

Vick wasn't a great QB when he played and its not like he'll be the difference between an 7-9 team and a playoff team.

The reward isn't going to be worth the risk with Vick. Its not whether he'll be cleared to play, its that no one with a brain will touch him. Which technically leaves open the Raiders ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

I never thought Vick was all that great of a QB. He was not accurate and too quick to run. He might be better suited as a 3rd down, situational RB at this point.

Posted by: siris | May 20, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

We don't need an infamous criminal anywhere near this team. He would be the very definition of a cancer.

For the team to succeed Vick would require players to make a choice between supporting him in the press or standing with the rest of the thinking, feeling world in rightfully condemning him.

IOW, and IMHO, Vick would become larger than the Redskins and no one deserves that; not the players, not the fans, and certainly not that immature, infantile criminal!

Posted by: Section106 | May 20, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Silly people of RI, Winning cures all. If mike vick steps into a team and plays QB and take team to conference championship game or super bowl it will the biggest story the media can draw up.

I can see it now on 24hr loop on comcast sportsnet " Road to Glory, the Michael Vick story" now playing all day every day. did we mention we have the michael vick story

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

JLC stirring up QB drama....


SHOCKER........


The only thing missing from this particular article are his classic use of the words: anonymous, source, anonymity, familiar, and situation

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Adam Jones et al get a second chance and Michael Vick should not? If only people had such outrage about the shooting in NE as they do about the mistreatment of dogs we would clean up our city in no time.

Posted by: mjwies11 | May 20, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Are u serious 106?

I bet you supported some of your congressman and senators and local politicians who have arrest records and felonies on the rap sheet?

There is such a double standard in America of what a criminal is and what we view as a crime.

Michael vick = criminal because he beat and killed dogs

Bernie Madoff = jerk not criminal although he swindle people out of 50 billion dollars which some of them commited suicide when they found out, retirees who cant afford their lifestyles anymore because they have no money.

so I ask you who is the bigger criminal Michael Vick or Bernie Madoff.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I can't think of any Nebraska QB's that have gone on to the NFL to have good careers. Maybe I am missing someone, but just can't think of any....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 20, 2009 9:24 AM

Vince Ferragamo

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

and to further my rant, I am tired of people calling Kenyon Martin a thug and the only evidence they show is his tatoos but Chris Anderson AKA the birdman who was suspended for drug abuse and has more tatoos than martin receives standing ovations when he enters and leaves the game but is not considered a thug.

Double standards I tell you Double Standards

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

JLC stirring up QB drama....

SHOCKER........

The only thing missing from this particular article are his classic use of the words: anonymous, source, anonymity, familiar, and situation

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:11 PM

Not La Canfora. Too many dots in the ellipses. jmicrodoc = Larry Michael

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Rottweilers are vicious animals in nature. They are not Labradors or pugs etc. That being said I don't condone what he did. He has no other criminal record that we know about. He lost multi-millions and 2 years in the pen. He has paid his debt. Let him move on. Do I want him on the Skins...HELL NO. At least not as a QB. Maybe a kick returner or something of the sort. Besides he'll be a Raider before Danny pulls out his gold card.

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

"Anonymous sources that request anonymity are familiar with the situation", said an anonymous source familiar with the situation.

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

My explanation for my answer (no) to this purely philosophical question is that Vick is too quick to run the ball ... that's creates too much risk at a position that requires continuity to keep an offense running smoothly. Yes, its great that he was able to keep the ball moving down the field by getting the first down when necessary, but the need for a QB to run is a combination of (1) lack of confidence in the QB's receivers and/or offensive line and/or self to complete the pass and/or (2) just duct tape over a poorly constructed offensive scheme and play calling. The starting QB needs to stay on the field for the whole game. Running as often as Vick does just creates too high of a risk of injury.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

I dont think anyone is going to make the argument that Vick would come here or anywhere else and lead the team to greatness. I do think he would be a decent backup who you could do some things with. As to your point about ticket sales, I dont think PETA members are buying season tickets to football games anyway. They just come to protest.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | May 20, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

"Anonymous sources that request anonymity are familiar with the situation", said an anonymous source familiar with the situation.

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:26 PM

posted anonymously by jmicrodoc

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

great: "Michael vick = criminal because he beat and killed dogs
Bernie Madoff = jerk not criminal although he swindle people out of 50 billion "

Who said Bernie Madoff is not a criminal?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

what about michael vick would make me feel uncomfortable about him playing football. leonard little killed a person while driving drunk. he didn't miss much if any time if i remember. no one asks are the ravens comfortable with ray lewis lying to the cops about his friends killing someone. vick paid his debt plus some. he should be able to play football if he's good enough to make a team.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

posted anonymously by jmicrodoc

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:27 PM


I am familiar with the situation, lol...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I don't suspect Vick would get as much grief from the local PETA crowd in cities like Miami or Nashville, maybe New Orleans. Culturally, for the particular felony, my guess is that fans in those cities would get over it.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"Rottweilers are vicious animals in nature."


Um, no. Rottys are intelligent canines who are trained in search-and-rescue and guides for the blind.

They are vicious when "men" like Vick train them to be vicious. Period.

Posted by: swowra | May 20, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

i can think of a legal sport that everyone's talkin bout right now where animals are forced to compete, beaten, sometimes, drugged, and killed if they get injured and can no longer perform; it's called horse racing. sure it's not as brutal in most opinions but horseracing has some similarities to dog fighting. I bet barbaro would still be alive if he didn't break his leg in a race and have to be "euthanized."

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Um, no. Rottys are intelligent canines who are trained in search-and-rescue and guides for the blind.

They are vicious when "men" like Vick train them to be vicious. Period.

Posted by: swowra | May 20, 2009 1:32 PM

"Rottys are inferior to German Shepherds", said a source close to the situation that spoke on a condition of anonymity.

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

i can think of a legal sport that everyone's talkin bout right now where animals are forced to compete, beaten, sometimes, drugged, and killed if they get injured and can no longer perform; it's called horse racing. sure it's not as brutal in most opinions but horseracing has some similarities to dog fighting. I bet barbaro would still be alive if he didn't break his leg in a race and have to be "euthanized."

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Moronic. Horses are not trained to kill one another, and the people who own/train/ride horses love them like they were children.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Look people, this is a cultural issue. The USA is a big place with lots of various people. I am sure a stupid redneck or two, have been players on the Redskins, who have done stupid things, and haven't been caught. But, that's OK, right? Because they are "white"?

That's a rhetorical question.

What Vick did was wrong. He paid a very steep price. We as a society need to learn how to forgive and move on. If he screws up again, I totally agree he should be banned for life.

In the meantime, the dude can return kicks, punts, and play on third downs for the skins. He would offer an element of explosion to the West Coast Offense, that the skins do not have, other than Santana Moss. At this point, my club footed uncle wilford, could be bet randle el and CP in a foot race.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Vick was convicted of violating criminal laws, and has been adequately punished. He should be able to resume his livelyhood within the profession that he has trained for. Granted, Vick also violated many people's notions of morality, in part because dogs are valued by American society above most other animals. I am sure Vick will publicly repent and ask for forgiveness. All people are fallible, and deserve a second chance once they have repented for their sins.

Posted by: Dellis2 | May 20, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Um, no. Rottys are intelligent canines who are trained in search-and-rescue and guides for the blind.
Posted by: swowra | May 20, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

I get the intelligent part, but the operative word in the first statement is "trained". Rottys don't naturally guide the blind and do search and rescue. However they are built and "designed" to do damgage and sustain damage. dogs would fight each other in the wild,i don't think they wouldt just walk up to a blind person and escort them across the street though.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Moronic. Horses are not trained to kill one another, and the people who own/train/ride horses love them like they were children.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

How many of their children get euthanized after they've been hurt while their dad was riding their back and whipping them?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Society loves animals. More so that they start put more love and compassion into an animal than a human being. Whether that's right or wrong, its a fact. Society has its priorities mixed up...

Posted by: pakimonster | May 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

jmicrodoc, would you (speaking on the condition of anonymity ) Have your 10 year old child play with a rotty?

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Right now Mike Vick is better or just as good as half if not more of the 32 starting QB's in the league. Yes he is not your typical prototype NFL QB, But..

He has won a lot of games,won playoff games, got one game away from the super Bowl, has made the Pro Bowl. Not many of the blokes starting now can say that.

He has paid his debt to society,and like any and everyone else deserves a Second Chance.

I would love to see the Skins sign him. Why not? It can't be any stranger or controversial than any of the other player transactions this team has made since the Snyder ownership.

As far as the recession goes, who or what would fill more seats for a team than the signing of Vick? Americans love , circuses, carnivals, spectacles, and tragedies. Ever see traffic backups due to a simple accident, rubbernecking?

He was an exciting player and nobody on our offense would dictate as much planning for an oppossing defense as Vick. Not Portis,Moss, or Cooley who at this point in time are our most potent offensive weapons, irrelevanat of the health or status of the OL.

There appears to be a lot of saints and choir boys up here who have never made a mistake or have been perfect all their lives. If not for a second chance some of you may not be where you are in life now.Don't rush to be so judgemental and self righteous!

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 20, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

jmicrodoc, would you (speaking on the condition of anonymity ) Have your 10 year old child play with a rotty?

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 1:41 PM

I would if I knew both the owner and dog. You cannot deny any animal's instinct...but Rottys, if properly trained, can be just as sweet and innocent as Poodle.

Again...German Shepherds dominate Rottys. Thugs who think they are all big and bad with Rottys and Pit Bulls have NOTHING on a well trained German Shepherd. A German Shepherd's intelligence, strength, and combat skills supersede that of a Rotty.

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

moronic though. i don't support dog fighting. it's just funny how people can rationalize beating a horse around a track and then killing it if it can't race no more yet say vick shouldn't be able to work over dog fighting.

How many pigs,cows,chickens,fish etc. are killed everyday for our needs(wants). Humans can survive on things other than meat, we don't have to wear leather clothes and shoes but those things fit the lifestyle of "Americans" so all of that gets a pass.
Be mad at all animal abuse go pickett Frank Perdue and Ruth's Chris Steakhouse.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

How many of their children get euthanized after they've been hurt while their dad was riding their back and whipping them?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 1:41 PM

Fortunately, my kid hasn't been hurt too bad from the ridin' and the whippin', so I haven't had to face this difficult decision.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Summed up succinctly:

NON,BHN.

Posted by: WEWard3 | May 20, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

I stand corrected speaking on the condtion of anonymity. According to the FCI Standard, the Rottweiler is good natured, placid in basic disposition and fond of children, he is very devoted, obedient, biddable and eager to work. His appearance is natural and rustic, his behaviour self assured, steady and fearless. He reacts to his surroundings with great alertness. [6]

The American Kennel Club says he is basically a calm, confident and courageous dog with a self-assured aloofness that does not lend itself to immediate and indiscriminate friendships. A Rottweiler is self-confident and responds quietly and with a wait-and-see attitude to influences in his environment. He has an inherent desire to protect home and family, and is an intelligent dog of extreme hardness and adaptability with a strong willingness to work, making him especially suited as a companion, guardian and general all-purpose dog. [7]

Rottweilers are a powerful breed with well developed genetic herding and guarding instincts. As with any breed, potentially dangerous behaviour in Rottweilers usually results from irresponsible ownership, abuse, neglect, or lack of socialization and training. Inherent breed characteristics are not a factor.

The breed has received some negative publicity. In the US, the Rottweiler was the number one breed of dog named in fatal human attacks in 2000, in a report by the CDC[8]. These reports must be read in the context of the breed's popularity as it was the most popular breed in the United States in the same period.

The portrayal of Rottweilers as evil dogs in several fictional films and TV series, most notably in The Omen, and sensationalist media hysteria has added to their negative publicity. This hysteria has led to Rottweilers being banned in some municipalities and are sometimes targeted as dangerous dogs by legislation, such as in the Netherlands, Portugal and the Republic of Ireland. However, the Dutch law has since been changed as of 2008. On the other hand, not all mainstream media has portrayed the breed in a negative light: for example, a gentler side of the Rottweiler's personality was observed in the movie Lethal Weapon 3 where a Rottweiler guarding a gun smuggling operation was placated by the main character, played by Mel Gibson, with dog treats. The dog was subsequently rescued and de facto adopted by the protagonist.

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

That goes for you too David Steele, or, oh I'm sorry, is it Mr.Moe?

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 20, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

How many of their children get euthanized after they've been hurt while their dad was riding their back and whipping them?

Posted by: lilhollywood10

They get euthanized because you can't keep a horse off its feet, and it leads to painful and extended infections. Its the only humane thing to do. For horse owners, its an extremely sad experience. Unlike dog fighting, which its regular and expected.

Again, they are trained to run fast, and the horses are pampered unlike any other creature on earth. They are not raised to fight/kill.

You're talking about an extremely small percentage as well.. I would say less than 5% of race horses ever suffer an injury that leads to euthanasia. Unlike dogfighting, where a much larger percentage die/are killed after.

You can't really be comparing horse racing to dog fighting, are you? I feel stupider for even arguing with you.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

That goes for you too David Steele, or, oh I'm sorry, is it Mr.Moe?

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 20, 2009 1:48 PM

Oh No!!! His identity has been revealed. You are no longer anonymous...sourcing familiar situations and requested anonymity...all the while giving JLC additional fodder to fill his column(s).

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Here we go comparing horse racing to dog fighting. Why did they have to put up a post about Vick? He may have served his time but I doubt him to be a changed man if it was not for his financial situation. The guy had a pattern of poor behavior. So did his brother. Runs in the family.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | May 20, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm not defending dog fighting either, Im just saying its nowhere near the "abuse" you think horse racing is. I have 2 friends who own racehorses and they are taken care moreso than I've seen people look after their dogs.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

German Shepard cant touch a Presa Canario.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Last time I checked, horse racing was legal? Dog Fighting, not so much....

Can't we get back to the role that Marcus Mason will play this year??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

has its priorities mixed up...

Posted by: pakimonster

So true we live in a world where people protest daily, it is amazing that we want to save the whales and kill the babies.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

The only problem with Vick coming here, is the effect he would have on Jason Campbell. With all the psycho-manic craziness JC had to put up with with the blundering duo of Synder & Cerretto, it would be an inevitable QB controversy. The NFL network would be talking about it every night. Unfortunately, the Skins Management doesn't have any Class and it would be above their head to sign Vick to a one year deal and make it clear that JC is the QB. They seem to want to silly, toxic drama. What Would Gibbs do? (WWGD)
He would sign Vick to a one year deal, have him return kicks and play some complementary role on offense.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

So did his brother. Runs in the family.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | May 20, 2009 1:51 PM


hate to see what runs in your family, OOhhhh thats right nobody cares about your family and doesnt follow them around and report when your aunt gets a speeding ticket or when you paid a bill late.

WATCH OUT SOMEONE IS THROWING ROCKS AT YOUR GLASS HOUSE

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I would make it clear to JC he is the QB, and Vick would only be used in the wildcat, as third down back, or returner.

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 20, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Moronic. Horses are not trained to kill one another, and the people who own/train/ride horses love them like they were children.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:37 PM

... except for Mr. Ed, of course, the wonderful Mr. Ed.

Actually, I hadn't thought as much about the idea of Michael Vick as a wide receiver (which I think would be awesome for the Skins) or even a punt returner ... based on the chatter up here, I think that DC (like Miami, Nashville, and maybe New Orleans) might come around to liking Michael Vick (assuming he doesn't upset the QB apple cart). Skins fans love anyone wearing the jersey ... as long as the guy performs well ... if the guy's name is Archuleta, Lloyd, GardnerRod, or Taylor Jacobs, though, vengeful shrieking until our throats are raw ...

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Let's make this all relevent again... are there any rules agaist horses playing RT?

Actually, I saw an eastern lowland gorilla the other day (18 years old, 5'10", 485 lbs) that I think has just the right size and attitude for RT, multiple positions really (might need a tailor-made helmet, though).

Phenomenal strength and speed, real low center of gravity!

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow...."Who Let the Dumb Out"....can half of you even read....

You do know that the dog fighting, and most dog fighting is pitbulls not Rotweilers right?

This was post of the day, and really the only thinking way to view the Vick question:

Vick was convicted of violating criminal laws, and has been adequately punished. He should be able to resume his livelyhood within the profession that he has trained for. Granted, Vick also violated many people's notions of morality, in part because dogs are valued by American society above most other animals. I am sure Vick will publicly repent and ask for forgiveness. All people are fallible, and deserve a second chance once they have repented for their sins.

Posted by: Dellis2 | May 20, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

German Shepard cant touch a Presa Canario.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:52 PM

And Tom Brady can't touch Todd Collins...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Michael Vick (for one year) = could be combination of Devin Hester and Joe Washington Circa 1982-84.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

We need a new purely philosophical question or poll. I think we've thoroughly and adequately beaten this dead dog ... um, horse ... no, that's not it ... TOPIC, yes, topic.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

You can't hug your children with nuclear arms!

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

German Shepard cant touch a Presa Canario.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 1:52 PM

And Tom Brady can't touch Todd Collins...

Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 2:04 PM

yeah, yeah, yeah, and Michael Jackson can't touch little boys and Pee Wee Herman can't touch himself ... tell us something we DON'T know.

The greatness of The Todd up here is rivaled only by the greatness of Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

To be objective:
Hasn't played in more than two years and is, shall we say, "distracted". Pass.

Posted by: nonsensical2001 | May 20, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

It will be a great day when the the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber and nobody needs bumper stickers any more.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

If Vick had beefed up in prison, I'd say give him a shot at RT. Otherwise, pass.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

If not Vick, why not Quincy Carter, or Ryan Leaf....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Rottweilers are vicious animals in nature.

Posted by: BingCreole

Yeah? You base this statement on what? I've owned three Rottweilers, had them around my children, rolled on the floor with them, played tug of war. They are wonderful, gentle dogs who like a lot of love and attention and give it back ten fold.
You start with a premise so ludicrous, you destroy any chance you have of being taken seriously.

Posted by: RedskinWillie | May 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Yep great1, Michael and Marcus Vick are outstanding human beings. Only shortcomings they ever had was a traffic ticket or 2. Idiot.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | May 20, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

The greatness of The Todd up here is rivaled only by the greatness of Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:10 PM |

"Leigh Torrence is not anonymous or familiar with any situation", said a source familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition on anonymity.


Posted by: jmicrodoc | May 20, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse


dog fighting certainly is in the basement as far as taste goes...but has it even a fraction of the impact of many of the crimes NFL'ers stand convicted of...spousal abuse, DWI, brandishing a weapon. If he were Michael Vick citizen he would have never attracted Federal attention. That he is low down goes without emphasis...but the sport of Pro football has few noble elements...it is brutal and vicious, and leads to short lives...engenders an avalanche of gambling,
enriches a few...wait, I think I mean dogfighting.

Posted by: mulezen | May 20, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Presa's are some of the dumbest dogs I have ever met. breed should be outlawed since they serve no real function. Rotts are vicous. Humans make them that way. I know many Rotts who can herd 20 lambs w.o a problem.

GSD's have been hobbled and crippled in thsi country by the stupid AKC standard for the sloping top line.

Vick needs to pay for his crimes. He hasn't. Punk needs to hog tied and fed to some dogs as dinner.

You ladies need to stay out of talking about dogs. You dont have a clue.

Posted by: sheepherder | May 20, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

RedskinWillie, in my experience, Rottweilers do not take kindly to having those little hairs between their paw pads pulled ... no, wait, maybe that's all dogs.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

If they took Vick, I think he could play RB or WR and be used in the Wildcat. But Coach Zorn says he don’t like the wildcat and won’t use it. But when do Vinny and Dan ever listen to their coaches or pay attention to “schemes”? It’s all moot…..Jerry Jones will want him more than Danny….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 20, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Sheepherder, saying stupid things like that. Whats makes you any different than Vick?

Get a clue.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

You're talking about an extremely small percentage as well.. I would say less than 5% of race horses ever suffer an injury that leads to euthanasia. Unlike dogfighting, where a much larger percentage die/are killed after.

You can't really be comparing horse racing to dog fighting, are you? I feel stupider for even arguing with you.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse
So it's ok to take a calculated risk with a horse's life and not a dog's life? let the percentages be what they are, the fact is that some horses die so that we can watch them compete and get paid from it. They have to be euthanized b/c it's harder to take care of a horse that isn't bringing in race money than a healthy one. Look i've own a dog now and have had three dogs in my life. I think dogfighting is wrong. I just think it is funny how we rationalize certain things so that we can enjoy them and demonize others b/c we can't relate.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

"Vick needs to pay for his crimes. He hasn't. Punk needs to hog tied and fed to some dogs as dinner"

23 months in jail
loss of contract paying him over 100 million dollars.
loss of countless millions in marketing/advertising opportunities

What else would you prefer he paid for his crimes? Perhaps we should lop off one of his limbs, or a number of toes?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey, Red, sorry for hurting your feelings.

I understand that you are the Ol' Dirty Bastid of the RI blog board, and you have 13 children by 4 different women.

And I'm 23, not 22, and I'm not a virgin, and even if I was, I wouldn't care. If tuggin' it means not having to deal with women, I'm all for it.

Yes, I do have a healthy dislike for the opposite sex.

Kids are cool though, that was just a joke. I wouldn't cook or eat them, unless my dog was really hungry.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Vick needs to pay for his crimes. He hasn't. Punk needs to hog tied and fed to some dogs as dinner.

You ladies need to stay out of talking about dogs. You dont have a clue.

Posted by: sheepherder | May 20, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

Kill the humans save the dogs

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

As for the poll, I would actually be down with getting Vick.

No, I don't think he'll be very good at any position he ends up playing when he gets back, but I'm all for giving someone a second chance. I figure he'll be on very good behavior afterwards, really watching his step. (I just thought about Marcus Vick though, which made me think twice about my stance).

But really, the dude has done his time. If he comes back and screws up again, that'll suck but that's something you can't really foresee. More power to Vick, he should definitely get back in the NFL if a team wants him.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Yep great1, Michael and Marcus Vick are outstanding human beings. Only shortcomings they ever had was a traffic ticket or 2. Idiot.

Posted by: Posse81_83_84 | May 20, 2009 2:15 PM |

You sir are the idiot because you just labeled the entire Vick family because of two people. the point is that I would hate for someone to label your family because of your daddy and your uncle.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

quarter horses used to be used for fishing for great white sharks....true story, ask Peter Benchley, author of Jaws....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Maybe try comparing dog fighting to dog racing instead. That's a much seedier world in need of investigation and eradication, and would make a lot more sense than you are making here.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

vick would be an upgrade at backup rb, 2nd or 3rd wr, kr and backup qb. I think he'd hold onto a win if JC got hurt and he came in and I think he'd be a gameplanning nightmare starting a game if JC couldn't make a start.Of course all of this would depend on his physical conditioning and athleticism being at or near the level he last played at.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

HEY EVERYBODY - LETS HAVE SOME FUN!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Torrence
Keep it going!!

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I hate the argument that dog fighting is illegal and horse racing is not, because what happens if they legalize dog fighting?

Do the people who served time get their time back,
like the people who were arrested and jailed through the prohibition era for alcohol. are those people nasty criminals or did we change or mind about what crime is?

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property, it's his dog," Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis told WAVY-TV in Virginia. "If that's what he wants to do, do it. I think people should mind their business."
When told that dog fighting is a felony, Portis replied, "It can't be too bad of a crime."

Classic.

Back to football, anyone know they latest on Mike Williams weight?

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10 and sheepherder, your talking about killing and hogtying people. How much do you hate yourself, that you can think about doing this to another person?

Today, its my wish, that someone gives you both a 'big hug', because you clearly really need it.

You need to be in therapy, to deal with these insanities that your are spouting off. If Tony Soprano can go to therapy. You can to. You can do it. I believe that crazy rednecks can change.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

SMACK, dog racing ... that's why I was thinking that Miami would not get as culturally worked up by having Vick on the team. Also, cockfighting is huge in the Caribbean and parts of Central America ... so Miami might be OK with Vick ... assuming that that component of Miami's population cared about American football.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

So it's ok to take a calculated risk with a horse's life and not a dog's life? let the percentages be what they are, the fact is that some horses die so that we can watch them compete and get paid from it. They have to be euthanized b/c it's harder to take care of a horse that isn't bringing in race money than a healthy one. Look i've own a dog now and have had three dogs in my life. I think dogfighting is wrong. I just think it is funny how we rationalize certain things so that we can enjoy them and demonize others b/c we can't relate.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

You're calling dog fighting a 'calculated risk'?

I'll say it once more; there's this little thing called INTENT.

The INTENT of dog fighting is breeding dogs to kill each other. They are NOT taken care of.

The INTENT of horse racing is to breed horses to run fast. They ARE taken care of, and the owners DO NOT want them injured.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Rypien11, I LOVE IT!

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Maybe try comparing dog fighting to dog racing instead. That's a much seedier world in need of investigation and eradication, and would make a lot more sense than you are making here.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse
The point of the argument is to illustrate the abuse done to other animals that is legal and overlooked. But i like how it comes back to the dog, cuz apparently dogs are the only animals that are abused.BTW what doesn't make sense?I can understand if you don't agree, but i didn't lie,exaggerate or misremember. I think horse racing is abusive to horses.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Mike Williams weight continues to drop at an astonshing pace, it has confounded the traning staff at redskins park.

One person spoke on condition of anoymitiy because he was not authorized to speak on it but said that the training staff believes Mike Williams has that Benjamin Button Disease

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Ryp11, I meant the wiki, not the intent stuff.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 2:39 PM | Report abuse

You it is really funny to me that people all upset about Vick yet not one damn word about players that hit the wife or girlfriend. I know what he did was wrong but a human being is way more important in my book.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | May 20, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

The retirement of a prize-winning horse is the best lifestyle ever created.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse
The point of the argument is to illustrate the abuse done to other animals that is legal and overlooked. But i like how it comes back to the dog, cuz apparently dogs are the only animals that are abused.BTW what doesn't make sense?I can understand if you don't agree, but i didn't lie,exaggerate or misremember. I think horse racing is abusive to horses.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Yes, comparing a dog to a dog. Outlandish! I know what you think, and you're wrong.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

lilhollywood10 and sheepherder, your talking about killing and hogtying people. How much do you hate yourself, that you can think about doing this to another person?

Today, its my wish, that someone gives you both a 'big hug', because you clearly really need it.

You need to be in therapy, to deal with these insanities that your are spouting off. If Tony Soprano can go to therapy. You can to. You can do it. I believe that crazy rednecks can change.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse
was i supposed to write (sarcasm) next to my post? Maybe you only read 2 posts. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but you should read the whole messageboard before you call my name on some bs.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Lets end this issue now lets just ask the horses how they feel like when we asked the dogs

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Thanks sween... I think if everyone added to this page we could have something of Chuck Norris proportions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Torrence


Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

You ladies need to stay out of talking about dogs. You dont have a clue.

Posted by: sheepherder | May 20, 2009 2:19 PM

Double standard! If "having a clue" were necessary to post up here, you wouldn't have been allowed to register.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Forget Vick. Is anyone else as geeked about this as I am. It's showing at midnight tonight.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

what about a horse fighting a dog, whats everyone's thoughts on that??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

My apologies, lilhollywood10.

Posted by: friendofalobar | May 20, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1

I dont think anyone is going to make the argument that Vick would come here or anywhere else and lead the team to greatness. I do think he would be a decent backup who you could do some things with. As to your point about ticket sales, I dont think PETA members are buying season tickets to football games anyway. They just come to protest.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer |

Disagree. The vote up here is 50/50. Even if just 10-20% of your ticket sales were at risk, how many owners are willing to take that risk? In a recession. Would it negatively impact jersey sales and team related merchandise? Probably.

One of my best friends is a huge 49er fan and goes to games occasionally. She's also a dog lover. Would she be OK with Vick on the 49ers? The 49ers don't need to risk losing the tickets she could buy.

In addition, say the husband has season tix. If the wife or kids have a big enough problem with it, those ticket sales are also at risk.

Would I want to take that risk for a backup QB or punt returner? Don't think so.

My comment is that signing Vick is a business decision -- and the upside benefits are unlikely to match the downside risks.

fwiw -- Vick has paid a huge price for his actions. He went from a very very rich man to bankrupt, spent a long time in prison and has had his career prospects massively diminished. In terms of punishment, Vick has paid dearly for his crime.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Lost in the clamor for Vick is the question of who has rights to him?

If Atlanta still does have rights to him, and sees value in him, all the polls in the world won't make him a redskin.

In fact, the falcons would do well to keep the guy and put him to use at what he should've been doing all along: playing wildcat quarterback/slot receiver/punt returner.

Vick was an average quarterback who sold jerseys and made ESPN highlights from time to time.

And can someone out there from somewhere sell a pill that stops skinsfans from coveting a guy just because he's availiable?

Talk about Desperate Homeboys...geeez!

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

You it is really funny to me that people all upset about Vick yet not one damn word about players that hit the wife or girlfriend. I know what he did was wrong but a human being is way more important in my book.

Posted by: icetotalpackage | May 20, 2009 2:40 PM

What do you say to a woman with two black eyes?

Nothing, you told her twice already.

(I know, poor taste. Couldn't resist.)

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

You're calling dog fighting a 'calculated risk'?

I'll say it once more; there's this little thing called INTENT.

The INTENT of dog fighting is breeding dogs to kill each other. They are NOT taken care of.

The INTENT of horse racing is to breed horses to run fast. They ARE taken care of, and the owners DO NOT want them injured.


Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

I doubt that any "dogman" or dogfighter INTENDS for his dog to die. There are cases where dogs lose but don't die and aren't killed. But regardless no one goes into the dogfight thinking their dog will lose.

by the way best rap line of the day

"What if Peyton[manning] was fightin them dogs"-Jadakiss

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

what about manbearpig?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Vick has paid a huge price for his actions. He went from a very very rich man to bankrupt, spent a long time in prison and has had his career prospects massively diminished. In terms of punishment, Vick has paid dearly for his crime.

Posted by: zcezcest1

Post of the day!! People need the back the f up off the guy. I for one am going to support him and buy a jersey of what ever team he plays for. (as long as it is not Dallas)

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | May 20, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

someone needs to tell jadacrust that Peyton wasn't fighting the dogs, and that Vick was, so stop playing fantasy land.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I was listening to the Lockerroom on 980 and they were talking about this very subject. Vick got caught, was tried, convicted and served his time. The protestors that surely will follow him and picket the team and stadium he plays for need to back off and let the man earn a living. (Last I looked, ex-cons still have the right to hold a job, support themselves and be forgiven for their crimes.)
Vick may very well be the difference of going 8-8 or 11-5. Look what he did in Atlanta. I say take him!

Posted by: jmurray019 | May 20, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse


(repost)

Jason Taylor on Jason Taylor:

“Everyone should know I’m not a left end; I’m not a five-technique left end, it’s just not what I do well."


Wow!!

So the Front Office of the Washington Redskins gave up two draft picks for a player to play what even he knew wasn't the best position for him.

And this same Front Office gave a bundle of money to Albert Haynesworth fully knowing he too excels at a style of defensive play that doesn't match what the skins defensive scheme is.

And this same front office went into the recent draft claiming that despite it's needs on the offensive lines, no players were worth selecting other than the free agent castoff linemen other teams cut to in order to make room for drafted lineman.

And now people (58% last count) want this same front office to reach out to Micheal Vick to play some unknown position when other needs stare at the team like a hungry dog and an empty plate?


Geeez......

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

not fanatsyland, what-if-world. but seriously anybody wanna ban matt jones for bumpin coke in his pickup during the preseason?

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

what about a horse fighting a dog, whats everyone's thoughts on that??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:42 PM

Fighting is just not right. They should settle their differences over a game of chess.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 20, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

I doubt that any "dogman" or dogfighter INTENDS for his dog to die. There are cases where dogs lose but don't die and aren't killed. But regardless no one goes into the dogfight thinking their dog will lose.

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Oh, well thats ok then. I think I'm gonna go outside and start firing a gun into a crowd - Its ok because I don't intend to get hurt.

"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools - cause people from a distance can't tell who is who". - Jay-Z

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"not fanatsyland, what-if-world"

right, cuz their different....oh wait, no, no they're not.

here's one for you, BeanTownGreg, runs a 3.8 50 yard dash, has 11 foot arms, and simply cannot be stopped in the red-zone.

Or should we talk about what actually happened??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe that wikipedia entry on Leigh Torrence glosses right over how he got burned in pass coverage by Donnie Avery in the Rams game. Almost makes you question whether there might be some stuff on the internet that isn't accurate.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I've heard of hypothetical questions. These would be hypopathetical questions.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

"You can't hug your children with nuclear arms!

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:07 PM"

and how well does hugging your child WITHOUT arms work? Does this mean hugging children works better if you're armed? ;)

Posted by: ThinkingMan | May 20, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be comfortable with Jebus at QB with our offensive line...

Posted by: peterandmeredith | May 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Sween, don't call us, we'll call you.

-Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Good question.

One that can easily be answered with a simple yes or no.

Posted by: TheCork | May 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

I'm gonna start a 'bail/defense' fund for ryp, as he's probably gonna be in trouble after firing into a crowd......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest, I mentioned that I thought the cultural attitudes of Miami and Nashville (or maybe New Orleans) might be able to "get over it" on adding Michael Vick to the roster.

No way, no how, never could San Francisco ever get over Michael Vick. I'm guessing that more than half the fanbase gets hives when they hear the "Redskins" are arriving as the visiting team.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"Look what he did in Atlanta. I say take him!

Posted by: jmurray019 |"

I'm all for Vick getting his second chance and being left alone...

but...this was laughable. Vick did nothing impressive in ATL. And I was a Vick fan during his time there. The list of QB's he made the Pro Bowl over is laughable (Mark Brunnell, Tim Rattay, Joey Harrington, etc), his passing % was like 52% lifetime, QB rating in the mid-70's. Very overrated player. Exciting as hell, but not that good overall.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Bean - sorry for the extreme example, just trying to prove a point. Done with that argument, though.

Sween - feel free to add that to the "real" part of the article.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Please refrain from the "don't call us, we'll call you" refrain ... the "its not you, its me" refrain would work just as well.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

ryp, I've already collected over 10,000 dollars...no way I'm stopping now...or giving you this money for that matter....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

No, no, a thousand times no.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 12:42 PM

According to the poll of 1,240 people, you are in the 48% minority while I am in the 51% MAJORITY.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Rypien11, I wouldn't feel right adding that information because I wouldn't have a source, except for maybe a WaPo article by JLaC, which might attribute that bit about the Avery catch to an anonymous unsourced source at the Park ... and some peeps up here don't take kindly to that.

[Its a shame that "my own friggin eyes" can't be attributed as a source.]

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

MAJORITY RULES
MINORITY {{Politically Incorrect statement censored}}

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

According to the poll of 1,240 people, you are in the 48% minority while I am in the 51% MAJORITY.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:11 PM

Don't short your side based on the statistics, 4th. The "not uncomfortable" side is crushing on the electoral college votes.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

According to the poll of 1,240 people, you are in the 48% minority while I am in the 51% MAJORITY.

Posted by: 4thFloor

To be honest, I didn't even see what the poll question was cause I can't access that part of the page at work. My 'NO' is just to Vick on the team.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Bean - thanks for the effort anyway...

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Ryp, I'm with you (see 1:26PM above) for reasons having nothing to do with the immediately preceding 6 to 8 months with time off for good behavior. If he were willing to play at a starting position other than QB on the other hand (see 2:01PM above), then my position is fully 4th-like.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Life is based on Second chances. He served his sentence. I love dogs, have 2 and I think it's terrible what he was a part of, but it's done. He paid his debt to society. Question should be do you think he should be allowed to play in the NFL then it should be 100% yes because it us his right to play if someone offers him a job. Leonard Little killed someone. Pacman, shot someone and had about 30 other chances.

Posted by: slimbo-Rice | May 20, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse


"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools - cause people from a distance can't tell who is who". - Jay-Z

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

your argument is weak. there are tons of cases of animal abuse in everyday life. The next poll should be "Does ryp feel comfortable with perdue chicken in his freezer?" they kill animals all day out there

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I do have a healthy dislike for the opposite sex.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 2:27 PM

Are you still pining away over the Little Red-Haired Girl. It was third grade man. Get over it.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

i'm not a fool just have a diff opinion. I don't think you're a fool Ryp we just don't see eye to eye on the issue of abuse and it's definition.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I saw the horse racing issue come up agian and can't believe people don't think this SJK ain't the same. It is. The goal of the sport is different, BUT THATs IT. UFB...

When horses can't finish 1st and consistently come in last, they get sold to these people that send them to Mexico where they get slaughtered and sent to Europe because horse meat is a delicatessan there. UFB.....

Also, last year's Kentecky Derby, the 2nd place winner broke her 2 front ankles and they kilt her SJK right on the spot. With no warning. And at this years Preakness, the horse in gate#1 was scared and knocked the jockey off. It took 3 people to pull her hard back into the starting gate because she didn't want to go back.

And the Derby race dude winner Bobby BoRail said the female horse was never whipped until he rode her in the race and began whopping her...

There's no way you can defend one and downcast the other...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Anton, I believe the argument is usually like this:

It's an organized sport that's being played already. It needs regulation. The animals aren't treated much different than in dog or horse racing and those are legal.

Again, I'm not saying it's a winning argument - just an argument. This is still happening in our country and all over, whether we think it's reprehesible or not.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 20, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

my man 4th

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

There's no way you can defend one and downcast the other...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Horse racing is not without ethical issues, but it is not a sport of bloodlust. So yeah, there is.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I do like "Ookie the return man", though.

Let El do his thang in the slot and not worry about getting murdered on the return.

Somehow I don't think Vicky will go for it tho.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 20, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Im a casual reader and poster, so forgive me for asking what 'SJK' means. I've seen it used many times in posts but have no idea what it means.

Posted by: Number4DCSportsFan | May 20, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

... but it is not a sport of bloodlust. ...

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:31 PM

What's that one mayhemlust sport called again?

CasualNumber, SJK means "sorry, jack's kids" in reference to a the kids of this guy Jack who was embarrased at the foul language used up here on the blog because his kids might be reading it. The term SJK is used in place of a swear.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

#4,

We use that in place of tawdriness. As in SJK this or Look at her huge SJKs or this SJK SJKing SJKs.

It's all on the wiki
http://redskinsinsiders.wetpaint.com/

..actually needs some updating.

__________________________

So no takers on Cracker?

How 'bout what the Baby is using?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 20, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Thanks dcsween. I can't wait until OTAs and training camp start so we can get away from these manufactured stories and discussions!

Posted by: Number4DCSportsFan | May 20, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

my comments are not whether Vick should be allowed to play. I think he should, though he might have a suspension coming first.

The next part of the question is whether anyone will hire him. My argument is that its too big a business risk for a team. He's not likely to bring in new fans and he's not likely to substantially improve your team. So his upside is limited. On the other hand, upsetting even a small % of your customer base carries a real downside.

The risk/reward for bringing in Vick is not good. As for JM220 saying he's gonna go out and buy a jersey with the team that Vick signs with ... I guess there is some upside to signing Vick. I doubt some jersey sales come close to offsetting the downside risks.

But seriously JM, why would you be so excited to wear a jersey of a dog murderer? Get a London Fletcher jersey instead.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

As far as Vik himself, I don't see him as a good fit for our team, unless we want to be known as Raider's East, which isn't necessarily a bad thing......

Re: Horse Racing - The problem is, horse racing and meat eating is already on the forefront. You see it on national TV. It's in our daily lives. It's been embedded in our heads for centuries and is now regarded as a legacy thing. Dog fighting was never nationalized. If it were, we would have alot of different views now about it.....

And you can say this about alot of things. Gay Marriage and MMA initially comes to mind....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

George Bush was responsible for killing 1 million PEOPLE in Iraq and i dont hear anyone calling for his punishment.Nough SAID!!!

Posted by: hanimal03 | May 20, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Taylor on Jason Taylor:“Everyone should know I’m not a left end; I’m not a five-technique left end, it’s just not what I do well."

What Jason does well is rhumba. If we had a rhumba end, he'd have stayed. No cha-cha, however. No merengue, either.

Give the money back to Dan, Jason. You know you didn't earn it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"The Vick Question: Timeout for a purely philosophical question about Michael Vick.
Would you be comfortable having Michael Vick play for your team?

Yes.
No.
Rowf

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

What's with the Lakerz? They absolutely dominate the West during the regular season, then can barely overcome a Yao Mingless Rockets team that should have been blowed out and then they just squeak by the Nuggz at home at the last second? Plus Jerry West blarsts Kobe, saying he ain't as good as LBJ? Whew!

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

4th bringing the real @ 3:25...

On a side note: Yes, I do have a healthy dislike for the opposite sex.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 2:27 PM

What kind of man doesn't like women, or dislkes them?

And for you earlier post, McFly, I don't have any kids. None. Nada. Zip. So your lame ODB reference was off base and in other words 'lame'.

It's clear you have a little misogyny there in ya, bruh.

Or you may just have a fear of women, or more like fear of being rejected. It's okay, come holla atcha boy for some tips...

"My role model is Wilt
So married women or MILF
It don't matter who you is Mizz, you can get the bizzness."

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

So no takers on Cracker?

How 'bout what the Baby is using?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 20, 2009 3:39 PM

Crack babies?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Dog fighting was never nationalized. If it were, we would have alot of different views now about it.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

But dog racing has, and that's your only parallel with horse racing. If there were horse fighting, you'd have four legs to stand on.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

LeBron James vs. Lyndon Baines Johnson

Which LBJ do you care less about?

[Brought to you by the Conversation Manufacturers Association]

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

dikShuttle

Professor Moe weighs in:

"The origins of the word 'cracker' go back in time to when North Florida cattlemen used whips to make a 'cracking' sound to signal back and forth while out in the pasture."

"Today, though, the word is usually considered a racial epiphet directed at white Americans."

"For some, though, a cracker is a flat dry salty biscuit that satisfies hunger when a slice of cheese or peanut butter is placed upon it."

So we are done with the c-word and already have an understanding of the fluid use of the n-word and are pooped out on the name calling aspect of both words.

Next word discussion: the true meaning of the word 'wack'.

As in, "All forms of racism ar wack. Unless, of course, it's the name of the Washington Redskins football team."

"Then, it's all right to use, my igga!"

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

I think from a purely football perspective -- leaving aside the canine aspects -- you can't legitimately compare Vick to any other player in the league, let alone other quarterbacks.

Closest you could come would be Vince Young, and Vince is nowhere near as fast as Ookie. Vince is more along the lines of a young Daunte Culpepper -- big as well as fast.

Vick is the first successful running QB. If you put him in a variation of the spread offense, behind a decent line, who's going to stop him?

Only one way, and it involves a gun.

But Vick couldn't stay healthy in a spread. The headhunters would be out in full tribal regalia. Every locker room would have a plaque on the wall for the Guy Who Took Out Michael Vick.

So his choice is: adapt or die. Become something more along the lines of a Randall Cunningham -- someone who prefers to play outside the pocket, but seldom takes off unless he's looking at an open field.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

(repost)

Jason Taylor on Jason Taylor:

“Everyone should know I’m not a left end; I’m not a five-technique left end, it’s just not what I do well."


Wow!!

So the Front Office of the Washington Redskins gave up two draft picks for a player to play what even he knew wasn't the best position for him.

And this same Front Office gave a bundle of money to Albert Haynesworth fully knowing he too excels at a style of defensive play that doesn't match what the skins defensive scheme is.

And this same front office went into the recent draft claiming that despite it's needs on the offensive lines, no players were worth selecting other than the free agent castoff linemen other teams cut to in order to make room for drafted lineman.

And now people (58% last count) want this same front office to reach out to Micheal Vick to play some unknown position when other needs stare at the team like a hungry dog and an empty plate?


Geeez......

Posted by: MistaMoe

I supported signing Taylor and wondered what the heck the Skins mgmt were thinking after that.

Taylor was a 'win now' signing. Why sign Taylor and then keep all 10 draft picks -- a 'win later' strategy? Made no sense. After signing Taylor, I thought the Skins would take a run at Boldin (or TJ Housh) which would have made the Skins a major threat -- probably a playoff team.

I also brought up the issue of flipping Taylor to the left side -- most people didn't think it'd be a big deal. But I knew it could be since I'd seen Chris Doleman (as a 49er) be a lamb on one side and a beast on the other (his natural position).

I couldn't understand why you take a recent defensive player of the year and have him play a different position.

The lesson is pretty simple. Find out what a player does best and use him that way.

Its a useful lesson for both Albert and Brian Orakpo. With Albert, he was the best defensive player in football last year. My take? Have him do those same things again.

With Orakpo, we don't know what he'll do best. Spend 2009 trying him at various spots (LDE, RDE, strong and weak side LB) and answer the question: what does Brian Orakpo do best? And once that question is answered, let him do that -- whatever it happens to be.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

My role model is Wilt
So married women or MILF
It don't matter who you is Mizz, you can get the bizzness."

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 3:50 PM

Scroll down my phone log and I'ma call all y'all.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Anton, IMO the Nuggets are a better team than LA -- LA stole that game from them. Denver was in control until the last 4-6 minutes of the game.

Wilbon said that they wouldn't be able to make plays down the stretch - that's a refelction on Melo, Karl, and Billups.

I still have Denver in six, and them winning game two decisively.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

But dog racing has, and that's your only parallel with horse racing. If there were horse fighting, you'd have four legs to stand on.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 20, 2009 3:52 PM

SMACK, not trying to bring a parallel to it. If I did, it would be MMA, and no one has a problem with that. I was just saying, I look at horse racing and can't believe they run these horses into the ground like that and the public doesn't care. It is despicable to me. These horses are getting whipped to go as fast as possible. Anyone racing horses should be jailed IMHO.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I don't support horses being drugged, or abused at all. Or being 'tazered' during the race. Whipping probably stings them a bit, but I can forgive that. It doesn't leave permanent damage.

I also wouldn't agree with putting the horse down, if it was possible to treat it and have it lead a full life. If you buy a horse, its your responsibility to take care of it, through sickness and health. But I can see how sometimes, horses just can't be fixed. You can't tell a horse to just "stay off of it".

That being said, racehorses are still pampered. The POINT of horseracing is to train a horse to run fast and beat other horses. If its done humanely, there is nothing wrong with it.

The POINT of dogfighting is to train your dog to KILL other dogs. The dog owners obviously does not care about the well being of the dog, unlike the horse owner (how the horse owner SHOULD be, anyway).

I'm sure there are some dirty things that go on in horse racing, like any other sport.

But if its done the right way, there is no comparison whatsoever to dogfighting.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

4th..you're calling me?? How did you get my number??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

what about a horse fighting a dog, whats everyone's thoughts on that??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 2:42 PM

Fighting is just not right. They should settle their differences over a game of chess.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 20, 2009 2:58 PM

What a dumb idea. EVERYONE know horses fall for the delayed pawn trap every time and NEVER beat dogs at Chess.

Also, you'll notice horses are never invited to play poker with dogs either. Tho if they did, I'd snap that painting up in an instant!

Posted by: TheCork | May 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"The goal of the sport is different, BUT THATs IT."

That's like saying the NASCAR is as ethical as Gladiator Battles from the Roman Empire.

Posted by: psps23 | May 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Boost me 4th!

I wish that song dropped a little later, perfect joint for the summer (June, July, August), but by then it'll be played out and no one would want to hear it anymore.

That's why for the most part I don't listen to music on the radio.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Yeah? You base this statement on what? I've owned three Rottweilers, had them around my children, rolled on the floor with them, played tug of war. They are wonderful, gentle dogs who like a lot of love and attention and give it back ten fold.
You start with a premise so ludicrous, you destroy any chance you have of being taken seriously.


Posted by: RedskinWillie


Hey KnuckledomeWilbur, if you would of taken the time to read down a litttle further, you would of sen that I re-canted my story and posted up that I was wrong and why. Maybe you can only two posts at a time then you need a rest, I don't know. You tell us Wilbur.

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"These h*es is God's gift like Christ-maz
I like 'em caramel skin, long hair, thick azz"

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

George Bush was responsible for killing 1 million PEOPLE in Iraq and i dont hear anyone calling for his punishment.Nough SAID!!!

Posted by: hanimal03

And he also wasn't credited with SAVING MILLIONS OF AMERICANS....How did a liberal get in this forum.....

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Young Money man, this sjk so timeless
and i'm in the mood to get faded so please bring your finest
and what are all your names, again? we drunk, remind us
are any of ya'll into girls like i am les be anest.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

zce: "With Orakpo, we don't know what he'll do best. Spend 2009 trying him at various spots (LDE, RDE, strong and weak side LB) and answer the question: what does Brian Orakpo do best?"

I can tell you right now: he rushes the passer. He's really good at that because he's not just fast, he's really strong.

So why aren't they going to let him? Because they're coaches.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

4th..you're calling me?? How did you get my number??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 4:01 PM

I missed the punch line (as usual)...

Red - I'm married, so I can only 'theoritically' like the song. My wife asked me if I felt that way, and I tried to be truthful and again I learned never to be truthful to women. ESPECAILLY the wife....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

That's like saying the NASCAR is as ethical as Gladiator Battles from the Roman Empire.

Posted by: psps23 | May 20, 2009 4:03 PM

No because everyone knows NASCAR is a modern day chariot race a la Ben Hur.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

My head games the bombest, I should be hooked on phonics.....

Baby, I'll do the whole group, so call me a groupie...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I love these completely harebrained conversation days up here.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Red, you're way wrong about the Lakers. The Nuggets had eight days rest. The Lakers played two days prior.

The Nuggets blew their only chance to win in LA. Plus they have some boneheads on that squad who are going go dummy late like last night. Why does Karl have the shortest guy on the court passing the ball in against a 6'10" Odom? Priceless. Lakers in 5.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

zce: "With Orakpo, we don't know what he'll do best. Spend 2009 trying him at various spots (LDE, RDE, strong and weak side LB) and answer the question: what does Brian Orakpo do best?"

I can tell you right now: he rushes the passer. He's really good at that because he's not just fast, he's really strong.

So why aren't they going to let him? Because they're coaches.

Posted by: Samson151

Well, as much as you think you know what Orakpo does best, you don't. Neither do I.

Orakpo may be strong, but he's about 40 lbs lighter than most guys he'll be up against. I did watch his UT highlight video (I don't put much stock in them) where virtually every play he did well on was about speed. There were very few running plays, and a TE pushed him around a lot on one of them.

I don't assume what Orakpo will do best in the NFL. This is the year we learn about him and what he can bring. Next year is when we expect him to bring it.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

A boy loves his dog.

Posted by: tigerjag3330 | May 20, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

If people would remember correctly, it wasnt just the dog fighting that got Vick in trouble. They never released everything he he did.

My personal opinion is dog fighting has been going on for a long time and will continue to do so. It was the hanging a dog from a tree and sraying it with water, then torturing it with a car battery until it died, or the other various semi-psychotic means that Vick used to kill the dogs. That was the part that reflects on him as a human.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 20, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

"No because everyone knows NASCAR is a modern day chariot race a la Ben Hur.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Fair enough, NASCAR's a little lightweight in the comparison.

Even so, the comparison still stands. A (regulated) chariot race being the same as a Gladiator battle?

Not even close.

Posted by: psps23 | May 20, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

everyone knows NASCAR is a modern day chariot race a la Ben Hur.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:12 PM

do they still have smash up derbies? or was that just for those electric cars?

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

4th, one of my homies was playing that song this past weekend - we were over his GF's house and everytime the hook dropped he was quite as hell.

She just nodded in approval while he was sitting there with the sad face.

I told him he's now rockin' the collar (dog collar, 'cuse pun) with the rhinestones on it now.

"Sanaa Lathan... Megan Good... An-gelina Jo-lie... D Woods...

For free suites I give Paris Hilton all nigthers... In about three years, holla at me Miley Cyrus

I don't discriminate - no, not at all..."

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Also remember that they never released some of the other methods he used to kill the dogs.

"While most of the dog killings noted in the indictment were allegedly carried out by the other defendants, Vick himself participated in the killings of eight dogs in April, according to the indictment. The animals were killed "by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground," the indictment said"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/17/vick/index.html

It wasnt just dog fighting. Dude is seriously messed up in the head.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 20, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

What happened to the 'Wings' discussion that was promised for the, um, 'Folks' like me up here? :)

Posted by: 4-12 | May 20, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

What happened to the 'Wings' discussion that was promised for the, um, 'Folks' like me up here? :)

Posted by: 4-12 | May 20, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

I got my Red Wings, you?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 20, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

LH1, that's why they play the game.

I still think Denver can play better defense, they've shown it so far in the playoffs.

Denver was dumb stupid for trading away Camby, or not re-signing him. They have Camby they win it, no question.

LA will have NO answer for Mels - none. Should be a helluva a series tho, no doubt.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

harebrained conversation days up here.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 4:19 PM

"Harebrained" is a bad thing? I'll take Bugs Bunny over Elmer Fudd any day of the week.

But in my mind, the term has always been spelled "hairbrained" ... though I see that that spelling doesn't make any sense either. ["Waiter, there's a hair in my brain."]

The fine art of spellingature. I recall periculum getting all nasty on somebody calling the guy a "panty waist." What that hell does that spelling mean?

["Panty waste" ... that is a spelling I would understand ... unlike most anything I read by periculum when he trash talks ... I have no idea what the hell that guy is talking about 95% of the time ... the other 5% is unverifiable history from before the days of cable TV ... and probably a lie anyway.]

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Vick lives up to the adage that "you can take a sjk out of the street but you can't take the street out of the sjk." I lost all respect for the dude before the dog fighting controversy when I read how one of his boys took a airport security guy's "Rolex" and Vick, who had been given the watch, refused to return it even though he knew how his boy came to possess the watch.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Busy day, 4-12...

As soon as I do some research on the show, I'm game, for real.

Oh and folks is folks. Just different folks, different strokes. Everyone is cool with me.

I don't discriminate. No, not at all.

lol

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

What happened to the 'Wings' discussion that was promised for the, um, 'Folks' like me up here? :)

Posted by: 4-12 | May 20, 2009 4:27 PM

I think I turned it off course when I started talking about 90210, which by the way had too many non realistic action segments happen in one prom night.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

red

"...I like 'em caramel skin, long hair, thick azz..."


There ain't no woman better than what you describe here.

Thing is, I married a girl who looked like that 25 years ago.

But then she had three kids, her 'junk' dropped like Enron stock, and now she looks like what Yoda would look like if he was a sista with a weave.

And when she takes off her clothes at night, the force is not with me, bro'.

I tell her, "There is no do and I won't try."

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

And the Nuggets have no answer for the greatest closer in basketball.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

I lost all respect for the dude before the dog fighting controversy when I read how one of his boys took a airport security guy's "Rolex" and Vick, who had been given the watch, refused to return it even though he knew how his boy came to possess the watch.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 4:33 PM

Me too. I remember that same Maske column. I don't mind him in the league, but just not on my team...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

harebrained conversation days up here.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 4:19 PM

This post represents different strokes for different folks theory... it's obvious you haven't dug on the convo up here lately. My b, Nate.

I'm leaving for the day, so please feel free to discuss cowboy movies, and whatever else to your hearts content.

Hell, when y'all were on the whatever sh*t y'all were on, I didn't knock what was being discussed, 'cause majority always rules - in every aspect of our lives, if you follow me... I just accepted what was being discussed at the time, felt no need to stomp my feet and cry about it.

But you do you tho, bruh.

Oh and, bruh = bro = brother.

One.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 20, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Hey Cindy,


What's the inside scoop on M. Williams weight. Is he getting down to camp weight?

Posted by: Devo2 | May 20, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

He is indeed. He now weighs the same as the camp.

Posted by: JohnnyRyde | May 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Walt Harris (the former Skin who had an awesome season after he left, but for some reason, does not get sufficient dead horse beating for the failure to re-sign up here), just tore his ACL and has to get surgery.

So much for getting my Walt Harris Dead Horse Beating Bandwagon started up here.

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

4th, learnedhand, how can you not appreciate the awesome creativity of the name "Ron Mexico"?

Posted by: dcsween | May 20, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

moe, bite your tongue...for shame....for shame...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 20, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Also remember that they never released some of the other methods he used to kill the dogs.

...animals were killed "by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground," the indictment said"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/17/vick/index.html

It wasnt just dog fighting. Dude is seriously messed up in the head.


Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 20, 2009 4:26 PM

Excellent point. I find that often when people pontificate about society "putting more value on the lives of animals than humans", they neglect to put the necessary sociopathic status of the criminal into context.

I worry about someone who purposefully and carelessly inflicts pain on animals in cruel and sadistic ways far more than someone who cries over a personal and heart-wrenching decision to have an abortion, or anguishes over a decision to euthanize a beloved racehorse with an unrecoverable leg injury.

The one who relishes opportunities to cause pain and suffering has the best chance or proving himself the gravest danger to society at large. Even if it starts with "just animals".

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

"What kind of man doesn't like women, or dislkes them?

And for you earlier post, McFly, I don't have any kids. None. Nada. Zip. So your lame ODB reference was off base and in other words 'lame'.

It's clear you have a little misogyny there in ya, bruh.

Or you may just have a fear of women, or more like fear of being rejected. It's okay, come holla atcha boy for some tips...

"My role model is Wilt
So married women or MILF
It don't matter who you is Mizz, you can get the bizzness."

Posted by: RedDMV"

What kind of person dislikes women? A person that has spent plenty of time around them...

What do you do, Red, follow them around like a dog follows an owner with a doggy treat? Are you completely 100% dedicated to just getting *****? Sounds sad and lame to me.

Right now, I'm in the mode where I say 'ef 'em. Yeah, they're good for a couple things, but ain't no way I'm going out of my way to worry about getting some piece of *** that'll probably make you do all the work anyway...

You wanna quote rap songs?

_____ ain't ish but ____ and tricks

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

um Red, I am pretty sure Nate was being sincere when he said he enjoyed the random and varied convos.....

But you can apply what you said to me, b/c RI has been dull as heck going on like 8 weeks.....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

I would pay to see Vick come out in a 'Mexico' jersey.

that story still cracks me up

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

But you can apply what you said to me, b/c RI has been dull as heck going on like 8 weeks.....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 4:55 PM

That game 7 loss still has you down, doesn't it?

Also, where did the term, 'beating a dead horse' come from?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

I would pay to see Vick come out in a 'Mexico' jersey.

that story still cracks me up

Posted by: TheTruth11

me too. just once.

though as a Bulldog fan, not sure how much The Truth can take of either Vick or Ron Mexico

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Yep, I DO enjoy this stuff. I really do. It's a little more lighthearted up here, the conversation flows, there's neither the ugly edge of gratuitous contentiousness not the grating drone of issue re-hash redux part IV.

Plus, we got polls.

Red, if it's obvious to you that I haven't dug on the convo up here lately, I hope it wasn't something I said, because that's not necessarily the case. Just keeping a lower profile up here for the most part as I try to pay a judicious amount of attention to a frustrating job search. Such as.

Again, harebrained was a compliment. Pretty much anything up to and including batSJK insane works for me. Boring or mean-spirited, that turns me off. For whatever my opinion counts. You dig?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Right now, I'm in the mode where I say 'ef 'em. Yeah, they're good for a couple things, but ain't no way I'm going out of my way to worry about getting some piece of *** that'll probably make you do all the work anyway...

You wanna quote rap songs?

_____ ain't ish but ____ and tricks

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 20, 2009 4:55 PM

Seriously dude you should talk to some professional about your feelings. Certainly you don't feel this way about your female relatives.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 4:55 PM

That game 7 loss still has you down, doesn't it?

Yeah it does, although the lameness of RI and the caps predictable nose dive are not related....

And Truth, take that crappe woman hater's club somewhere else Spanky...some of us have wives/moms/sisters/friends.....its your fault you can't relate to woman b/c your an unintelligent souless toad....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Great minds CL. For what it's worth I miss you. And I know beantown misses you.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Truth, your misogyny up above was spoken like a dude who lives in his mom's basement and takes her to the movies.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Quick poll:

Anyone up here ever eaten dog?

Anyone up here involved with someone who's eaten dog?

Me, its a 'no' followed by a 'yes'

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Now that's funny.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I know at least 2 dudes have eaten dog....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 20, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Zeke, no and no, but I once worked with a dude who grew up in a small, poor village in western China where they were happy for any protein that might make its way into their diets... including the occasional dog. It was just food at that point, and most welcome. I have no reason to doubt him on this.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

People spend $50 billion/yr on dogs. They leave them money in their wills. There are TV shows about dogs. Starlets and celebrities dote on them and carry them around everywhere. ...

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 12:43 PM

A couple of things that I forgot to mention. Hit movies have been made about dogs - "Marley and Me" (which was also a bestselling book), "B H Chihuahua". A dog sleeps outside the president's bedroom. Michelle Obama: "I heard a noise in the middle of the night and got up to look around and there was Bo, rolling his toy ball up and down the hall."

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

A repentant Vick should be allowed back in the NFL. I have a feeling that Snyder will try to sign him. I like Jason Campbell as a person and I like him in the QB position as a down field threat but not in the WCO. I think Vick and Campbell could fit well together on the same team. But let's get rid of the WCO.

Zorn needs to work with his personnel and stop trying to make the personnel fit a scheme.

Posted by: hz9604 | May 20, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

I've only seen PBS Specials of Dog and Cat 'processing' plants with a side of monkey brains in the middle of the table. That was the nastiest PBS special ever...

Processing a cat is very very simialar to hanging chickens. And Dog is like a cheap version of what Cows get rolled up into....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

4th, time for a little history lesson.

Back in the early 1930's, outside the offices of the Washington Post newspaper was a board on which people could affix handwritten messages, a "message board" in the parlance of the day.

When the Redskins franchise traded Harry "the Horse" Flannery, a lightly regarded halfback/safety/punter, to the Chicago Cardinals in return for a crate of ham sandwiches, the message board was filled for days with angry screeds from Redskin fans who felt the trade was a disgrace and that the team would never recover from losing the services of Harry the Horse.

Hence the phrase "beating a dead horse."

You're welcome.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

bean

I won't bite my tongue about this: I hope the Sawx beat up on them Jays again.

If you take Doc Halladay's 7 wins away, the Jays ain't even in AL East discussion.

Somebody needs to do the American League a favor and give up the farm to get Halladay on their team.

Something tells me he's look good in Dodger blue.

Or would make a nice Cubbie.

Or would make a sweet redbird in St Louis.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Quick poll:

Anyone up here ever eaten dog?

Anyone up here involved with someone who's eaten dog?

Me, its a 'no' followed by a 'yes'

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

no and yes. babymamma from the phillipines she ate dog when she lived there.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

she told me if nobody tied up the dog at night sombody fried up the dog by mornin

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

so far --

Anyone up here ever eaten dog?
0/4

Anyone up here involved with someone who's eaten dog?
2/4

though cL knows 2 guys who've eaten dog ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

TheTruth

Son, a piece of "...azz..." has three wet spots to check out, one more devastating than the other especially so as she can't really talk while using it.


(INSERT perverted eye-wink and twisted all-knowing smirk.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

my son is 1/2 dogeater, does he count

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Dogfighting has always been an illegal, cruel, American tradition for a long, long, long, time.

In fact, it is still probably going one as we speak in full throttle.

Michael Vick got made an example out of just like Marion Jones.

They went looking for drugs, but stumbled upon a NFL star hosting a nasty American pastime and prosecuted his but for it.

George Bush makes POTUS and decides he wants a witch hunt on steroid use, but when he owned the Texas Rangers, his own players used steroids rampantly. Where was he then.

Michael Vick and Marion Jones are poster examples of somebodies high and mighty hypocritical with hunts.

They both deserve every right to reclaim any and everything they have lost lost, undoubtedly through there own decisions.

Those bad decisions have been made by hundreds and thousands of others, with no consequence to their livelihoods.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 20, 2009 5:40 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be "comfortable" with it simply b/c I think he'd be a horrible fit for this offense, and I was never convinced of his all-around QB skill-set to begin with.

If by "comfortable" you are referring to the fact that he's a convicted criminal...

Well let's just remember that none of us really seem to have a problem supporting a team called the "Redskins"...if our overtly racist team name doesn't make us "uncomfortable", then we should probably not cast the first stone on this one...

Posted by: p1funk | May 20, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

correction:: with hunts should be witch hunts..

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 20, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

on the money funk shout out to larry in the back

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 20, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

"...Mike Vick..."

A lot of posts about a guy who won't be a redskin.

"...Brian Orakpo..."

No posts about a guy who is.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

People spend $50 billion/yr on dogs. They leave them money in their wills. There are TV shows about dogs. Starlets and celebrities dote on them and carry them around everywhere. ...

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 12:43 PM

A couple of things that I forgot to mention. Hit movies have been made about dogs - "Marley and Me" (which was also a bestselling book), "B H Chihuahua". A dog sleeps outside the president's bedroom. Michelle Obama: "I heard a noise in the middle of the night and got up to look around and there was Bo, rolling his toy ball up and down the hall."

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 5:12 PM |

AntonChigurh,

This is all good, and I can't stand cruelty to animals, but what I stand with the same passion is hypocrital prosecusion for political gain or for shaking your own agendas for personal reasons.

If we really stood for cruely to animals, why is dogfighting still a huge American pasttime?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 20, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

can think of a legal sport that everyone's talkin bout right now where animals are forced to compete, beaten, sometimes, drugged, and killed if they get injured and can no longer perform; it's called horse racing. sure it's not as brutal in most opinions but horseracing has some similarities to dog fighting. I bet barbaro would still be alive if he didn't break his leg in a race and have to be "euthanized."

Posted by: lilhollywood10

Moronic. Horses are not trained to kill one another, and the people who own/train/ride horses love them like they were children.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

I have been reading all the posts on here and it seems people have missed the point. The dog fighting is one thing...but to body slam dogs over and over until they die, Drown them, shock them and beating them to death because they do not measure up to standards is completely crazy....His sentence was Too light! He was also convicted of this and it is a felony. Yes he served some time but it was light...very light...

He should NOT be let back into the NFL period. Playing professional sports is a privilege not a right. Adding that most major companies do not hire felons.

I will say this right now....I feel so strongly about waht he did..that if he is reinstated and the Skins picked him up.....i would NOT be a Skins fan any longer. Have had season tickets for 48 years...enough said.

Posted by: leevi98 | May 20, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

"...Mike Vick..."

A lot of posts about a guy who won't be a redskin.

"...Brian Orakpo..."

No posts about a guy who is.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I put up an Orakpo post ... 2 actually ... around 4pm

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Dogfighting...? He's not a dogfighter anymore. He's paid his dues, its not like he killed a "human being" like Donte Stallworth or Ray Lewis (arguably). Vick made a bad decision, but who cares, he is the most athletic player in the NFL without a doubt. He is only 28 and any team lucky enough to get him will be significantly better than they were before. US INCLUDED! GO SKINS, Free VICK-Sign VICK!!!!!

Posted by: DCXNTX | May 20, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

N.F.L. Roundup
Falcons Owner Suggests Vick Could Eventually Play Again

Published: May 20, 2009
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Arthur Blank, the owner of the Atlanta Falcons, suggested on Wednesday that his team’s former star quarterback, Michael Vick, deserved a chance to play in the N.F.L. again — eventually.

With teams preparing for the coming season, keep up with all the off-season news on the Times’s pro football blog.

Vick left a federal prison Wednesday to head to Virginia for two months of home confinement. He has missed two seasons because of his role in a dogfighting ring.

“There is no question Michael has paid his debt to society,” Blank said. “But the commissioner has to decide if Michael has not only personal remorse, but has conducted himself not only personally but who he is associating with in a way that is going to allow him to be a player in the N.F.L. and represent our league well.”

He added: “Clearly based on what happened over a number of years, a lot of issues were related to acts he has to take responsibility for, and I believe he has. But what contributed a great deal is people Michael spent time with and the influence they had on him. His ability to separate those people who can be helpful and those who have another agenda — that’s going to be very critical for Michael now.

“You are what you eat? To some extent, you are who you hang with, too.”

Roger Goodell, the N.F.L. commissioner, will decide whether Vick should be reinstated immediately or continue to be suspended.

Goodell has said he will not start to consider Vick’s reinstatement until the two months of house arrest are over, and he has been careful in defining the remorse he wants to see from him. Goodell has said he will consider input from other people who know Vick.

Blank has been in written communication with Vick throughout the prison term, and the Falcons still hold his contractual rights. Blank has, however, adamantly said Vick will never play for the Falcons again.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 20, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Dogfighting...? He's not a dogfighter anymore. He's paid his dues, its not like he killed a "human being" like Donte Stallworth or Ray Lewis (arguably). Vick made a bad decision, but who cares, he is the most athletic player in the NFL without a doubt. He is only 28 and any team lucky enough to get him will be significantly better than they were before. US INCLUDED! GO SKINS, Free VICK-Sign VICK!!!!!

Posted by: DCXNTX | May 20, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

A bad decision????? Are you F'n kidding??? Your a jack a$$

Posted by: leevi98 | May 20, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

If we really stood for cruely to animals, why is dogfighting still a huge American pasttime?

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 20, 2009 5:55 PM

Because it is an underground activity and most decent people don't hang out with dogfighting types. Unlike how it is portrayed in the movies, dogfights are not attended by crowds of people. Generally, its just the people directly connected to the dogs.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | May 20, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who feels like they wouldn't take Vick are seriously morons. The guy was a top 5 talent in the league as far as athleticism goes when he left. As a the Redskins, he would be an ideal fit for the West coast offense, and we would have the number 1 rushing offense. Negative publicity... would go away when he wins games

Posted by: cgshelton | May 20, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

zce: "Well, as much as you think you know what Orakpo does best, you don't."

I don't? I thought it was pretty well established. But if you say I don't...

"Orakpo may be strong, but he's about 40 lbs lighter than most guys he'll be up against."

See, to me, 40 pounds lighter is a big advantage, provided you're strong enough to fight off somebody who's grabbing and clutching at you. Isn't that what Strahan and Osi taught us about the rush DE position? You want to be light and fast.

I hope all the cross-position work is helpful, but I suspect I can tell you what he'll be best at, even before the start of camp.

Same thing with Albert Haynesworth. I'm hoping Blache is able to use him to create turnovers the way they did in Chicago when he was coordinator.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Anyone saying how Vick has paid his debt and been punished enough, consider this: he violated criminal laws, and he paid his sentence. That is fine, he should be allowed to work and be a free man now. This is why he has a construction job.

Except NFL players are held to a higher standard by the league, and the league can enact penalties beyond the law. Hell they can fine the player even if they violated no law! Playing in the NFL is a privilege. They are paid millions of dollars to play football and not do stupid things like funding a dog fighting ring.

Have I made mistakes before? Yes, I have made impulse decisions before that were wrong, just as some players have made mistakes on the field in the rush of adrenaline. I did not commit a planned felony because it's just bad business.

Vick made his choice. He decided dog fighting was more important to him than playing. Surprise, he has no money and now wants to play. I think our team has a little more integrity than hiring this guy, and there are plenty of young players who haven't planned to commit felonies waiting for their turn to play.

Posted by: Keiser | May 20, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm a Virginia native and am eager to support a star from my state and did root for Vick to be a success both at Tech and Atlanta.My Virginia stars have not failed to dissapoint me repeatedly over and over.First it was D'Angelo squandering his talent,then Marcus and Michael,Iverson to some degree,and lately Percy Harvin,Chris Brown,and even Bruce Smith are exercising some poor judgement.My Virginians are derilicts,there must be something in the water.

Posted by: mark65 | May 20, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

Before Vick ever ran into this dog-fighting fiasco there were cracks in the porcelain. Remember the water bottle with marijuana residue and the young lady who claimed Mr. Vick had given her herpes in the guise of "Ron Mexico". You put all of these votes against his character and look at the issues his brother has had, and you see way too much risk.

Aside from the character issues you have to ask what this guy could bring to Zorn's West Coast offense. Zorn has steadfastly refused to adjust his offensive scheme for his players and with Vick it would be the same. When you limit Vick to being just a pocket quarterback, he is little more than a taxi QB.

As for Danny and his lust for any QB whose name isn't Jason, I think even the impulsive one knows this is a smelly fish. This guy is too keen a marketing guy not to realize what public relations nightmare this guy could be.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 20, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

I've only seen PBS Specials of Dog and Cat 'processing' plants with a side of monkey brains in the middle of the table. That was the nastiest PBS special ever...

Processing a cat is very very simialar to hanging chickens. And Dog is like a cheap version of what Cows get rolled up into....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 5:14 PM

Thnaks for that post, dude. Now my dinner wants to come back up!

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 20, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 20, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

Let's see - obtain Michael Vick as quarterback, find a way to secure the rights to O.J. Simpson, and perhaps we could find a place for the Cowboy players who are no longer in the big house.

Mike Vick deserves contempt. He doesn't deserve a second chance - except - if he is man enough to face a grizzly bear one on one without any weapons, homeboys, or posse. I'd consider his debt to the dogs paid for in full if he made it through the first round - alive.

Hell no to Vick! He had his chance. Now let him live like the rest of us and see what he gave up by being cruel to innocent dogs.

Posted by: laserwizard | May 20, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

So Vegas is predicting this for the Skins and their rivals:

"Leading the way in the division are the Giants (10), followed by Philadelphia (9.5), Dallas (9) and the Redskins (8).

The projection has the NFC East's combined over-under as a league-high 9.13 wins. The worst are the AFC West and NFC West (7.13).

The surprises: Arizona (8.5 – obviously not a lot of respect for the defending NFC champs), Baltimore (8.5 – obviously not a lot of respect for the AFC runner-ups), Detroit (5 – remember, the Lions went 0-16 last year) and Tennessee (9 – a steep decline from last year).

New England is first (11.5 wins), followed by Pittsburgh (10.5), Indianapolis (10) and the Giants (10)."

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

zce: "Well, as much as you think you know what Orakpo does best, you don't."

I don't? I thought it was pretty well established. But if you say I don't...

"Orakpo may be strong, but he's about 40 lbs lighter than most guys he'll be up against."

See, to me, 40 pounds lighter is a big advantage, provided you're strong enough to fight off somebody who's grabbing and clutching at you. Isn't that what Strahan and Osi taught us about the rush DE position? You want to be light and fast.

I hope all the cross-position work is helpful, but I suspect I can tell you what he'll be best at, even before the start of camp.

Posted by: Samson151

You can assume if you want to, and you may be right. Whatever Orakpo 'established' was against college players, not NFL players.

Me, I try not to assume. From what I saw on the Orakpo highlight tape (and again, I don't put much stock into highlight videos), I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be an LB.

What's really important is the Skins find out what he does best and then let him do that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

For Vick to invest lots of cash,as well as risk his lucrative career in this disgusting enterprise.He must have experienced some joy,thrills and excitement from his investment.The fact that he enjoyed this activity so much leads me to believe he must sick.Who delites in the face of so much suffering by animals that have over the years provided humans with such joy,utility and companionship.

Posted by: mark65 | May 20, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

As for Vick as a QB, Esiason made a comment that made a lot of sense to me. In the middle of a game where Vick was inconsistent, Esiason had an epiphany while watching Vick. He said, "I don't think Vick can see over the OL that are blocking for him".

In essence, Vick would have more 'blind spots' than other QBs. I thought that was an interesting observation.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Hence the phrase "beating a dead horse."

You're welcome.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 5:20 PM

Nate - Are you pulling my chain? I was believing it until I read ham sandwiches...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 7:59 PM | Report abuse

We used to feed cows that rented part of our property. These scrawney little apples that grew on the property. Drive out to that side of the fence and bang on a bucket and they would come running. I'm not saying they're the smartest animals but, to see them animated and excited about something... The young ones were almost like dogs. They would go exploring and come try to find us or our apples. Chasing one was like chasing a dog. Playful like. You'd have to yell with some base in the voice to get them to go back where they belonged and let them know it wasn't a game.

I've cleaned and gutted Bambi. Well it was probably full grown. But I'm proud to say it wasn't me who shot it?!

Dog fighting is probably a sport initiated by junk yard, repo yard, and police attack dog owners who's real aim was to insure they would attack their intended target... man. Beyond just growling till fed. ?

The real question is would he make a good football player or was it some type of commentary on his role as a Boxer or QB. Pitchers don't face a pass rush. Was he too rich and disaillusioned? Would poverty be enough? He was exciting to watch. It was a shame as he probably would have rewrote the record books in his own way.

What of minimum wage that stays the same till a second term election time despite inflation being a near absolute? Or full grown adults with families having to compete with teens who still have to pedal a bike and live with their parents? Or a total lack of respect for the cost of living. Those are a poke to the nards. To get the nation's work force in the right state of mind.

Posted by: chavez66 | May 20, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

zce: "You can assume if you want to, and you may be right. Whatever Orakpo 'established' was against college players, not NFL players.
Me, I try not to assume."

Aren't you assuming I don't already know what he does best?

Just kidding.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 20, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chavez66 | May 20, 2009 8:20 PM


WTF

Posted by: toohoes | May 20, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

Vick did his time. He paid more than he should have as far as funds, prison and humiliation. Let him start over and earn a paycheck. I'd have no problem with him as a Redskin as long as he fit in and was not a distraction. The Chief has spoken!
Peace unto you all

Posted by: Hail2theChief | May 20, 2009 9:04 PM | Report abuse

Vick a Redskin. No way. If Snyder signs Vick he loses me. After 26 years that would suck. Talk to any convicted felon and ask them how difficult it is to get any job...why give this clown a pass back into the NFL? It's an elite club and except for one club, it's private. SJK Michael Vick.

Posted by: Smiley2 | May 20, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

To destroy the life of a man over a dog. Most especially first offender.
That can only happen to a Negro. What a life, what a Country, what a philosophy.
Next time Vick, now you know you can easily get away with murder (OJ), but dog fighting? Your livelihood, your Children, your mother, your wife, etc none of them worth the life of a dog; at least, by American standard.

Posted by: abxinc | May 20, 2009 9:39 PM | Report abuse

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11768397

Man I wish we had a UFL team this year....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 20, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse


"...Mike Vick..."

A lot of posts about a guy who won't be a redskin.

"...Brian Orakpo..."

No posts about a guy who is.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Goes to the old journalistic dictum (Dictum? I hardly know him!)

"Dog bites man isn't news. Man bites dog is."

It's also why fat Kirstie Alley graces (?) the cover of People, and 30,000,000 good looking non-fat chicks don't.

Posted by: TheCork | May 20, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Where's my man Truf? Where'd he go? Looks like your boys in Cleveland won't be strolling through so easily.

Well, well, well. So it looks like Orlando can beat Cleveland after all.

Posted by: psps23 | May 20, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

From last Friday night to Sunday afternoon, Newport News, VA, Mike Vick's hometown, suffered probably the bloodiest weekend in America with seven people shot and four dead. All young Black males.
Whenever the local paper, "The Daily Press", prints articles on Vick, which is about everyday, people write letters to the editor about how they're tired of hearing about Vick, how terrible the dogfighting is (true,without a doubt), and how he still is not punished enough,etc...
But there is no word from these folks about the consistent killing of young black human beings... pit bulls,dogs....
young black human beings...., oh that's right, I forgot,- there's a big difference isnt't there?

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 20, 2009 11:36 PM | Report abuse

The reality of Michael Vick is that he represents a BUSINESS decision. How will signing Vick impact the business?

Why will Vick never be a Redskin?
Simple, Danny has too much to lose.

Will anyone look at Vick and think he is a good business decision? Maybe Al Davis. But if he loses you more fans than he brings in, its a bad decision

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 20, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Just for a second, let's forget all football questions and try to be normal human beings. Michael Vick is a terrible, terrible person. He does not deserve the fame and riches that accompany a NFL career (same goes for the other hoodrats in the league - Burress, Stallworth, etc.). Come on, people!

Posted by: brian71490 | May 20, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

72Redskins, I respect where you're coming from, but won't you accept the fact that many of us feel a tremendous emotional response to BOTH the Vick situation AND the perpetual tragedy of America's cities as evinced by the weekend killings you cite?

Won't you accept the possibility that some of the "these folks" you call out are just as upset about that ghastly weekend death toll as you are?

I was sorely tested by the Bush Administration, trust me, but I've found that my capacity for outrage knows no bounds. I've got room in my heart for upset at Michael Vick AND for a ton of other things.

We contain multitudes, man, each of us. That's what makes me skeptical when someone claims the higher moral ground as you did in that post. No offense intended.

Again, I do get where you're coming from, and I respect your point of view. I'm a Tidewater native myself, and my parents left that area at least to some extent because of urban decay. It's heartbreaking to think of the gun violence, the debased value of human life... I hate it. But I also hate what Michael Vick did to those dogs. I don't hate them equally; I understand they are different. But I hate them both.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 20, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

Just for a second, let's forget all football questions and try to be normal human beings. Michael Vick is a terrible, terrible person. He does not deserve the fame and riches that accompany a NFL career (same goes for the other hoodrats in the league - Burress, Stallworth, etc.). Come on, people!

Posted by: brian71490 | May 20, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

Kinda rude. don't be mad b/c players are famous and get paid well. be furious at the bad choices. that aspect of it is over now. he's supposed to be able to get on with his life if the nfl wants him back that's their deal.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | May 21, 2009 12:00 AM | Report abuse

He does not deserve the fame and riches that accompany a NFL career (same goes for the other hoodrats in the league - Burress, Stallworth, etc.). Come on, people!

Posted by: brian71490 | May 20, 2009 11:51 PM

You would be surprise as to the people you look up to what vicious things they have done behind close doors....


Oh yeah, go underdogs! Lebran vs. the world does not = championship......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 12:01 AM | Report abuse

Herm Edwards bringing validity to NFL Live on ESPN.

We needed someone like this, the silent majority......

Trent Dilfer does not deserve a tv spot....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 12:22 AM | Report abuse

THE MORE PLAYMAKERS THE BETTER FOR THE REDSKINS. BRING VICK TO THE GREATEST FRANCHISE IN SPORTS!

Posted by: wattsicon | May 21, 2009 12:38 AM | Report abuse

everyone talks about giving this guy a second chance and that he has paid his debt to society. true, he should get a second chance to be a decent human being and and be free. that does NOT mean he should be allowed in our precious league. It is a privelige, not a right to play in the NFL and vick has ruined his opportunity. He was a millionaire but somehow needed more from dog fighting? the guy is a punk, pure and simple. He made the decision to have this operation out of his own home every day it existed. thats not one mistake, its a mistake everyday it happened, which is alot. See what he did to those dogs, he hung them, electrecuted, and killed them with his own hands. F michael Vick. he doesnt deserve to play in this league.

Posted by: amsaul | May 21, 2009 1:00 AM | Report abuse

THE MORE PLAYMAKERS THE BETTER FOR THE REDSKINS. BRING VICK TO THE GREATEST FRANCHISE IN SPORTS!

So, you want him to play for the CowPies?

Posted by: daggar | May 21, 2009 1:13 AM | Report abuse

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property, it's his dog," Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis told WAVY-TV in Virginia. "If that's what he wants to do, do it. I think people should mind their business."
When told that dog fighting is a felony, Portis replied, "It can't be too bad of a crime."
Classic.

Back to football, anyone know they latest on Mike Williams weight?

Posted by: Alan4 | May 20, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Best post of the day.

This is why I felt the Redskins ought to trade Portis. There's no place in NFL for immoral players no matter how good they are.

Posted by: RedCherokee | May 21, 2009 2:07 AM | Report abuse

Also remember that they never released some of the other methods he used to kill the dogs.

"While most of the dog killings noted in the indictment were allegedly carried out by the other defendants, Vick himself participated in the killings of eight dogs in April, according to the indictment. The animals were killed "by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground," the indictment said"

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/17/vick/index.html

It wasnt just dog fighting. Dude is seriously messed up in the head.


Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 20, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedCherokee | May 21, 2009 2:24 AM | Report abuse

IMO no need for Vick on the Redskins (I am one of the few who actually believe that JC will be a pro-bowl QB sooner than later)...but Vick should be allowed to play somewhere and definitely can help a team. I don't understand why people are so eager to condemn others for a mistake. The guy clearly screwed up (I am 100% confident everyone reading this has made a serious mistake in their lives - - maybe not dog fighting - - but a serious goof). What I am impressed with is Vick owned up to his mistake. He never complained or launched a PR campaign...he just did his time (IMHO too much time). He's paid his debt to society and now he should be allowed to earn a living again. Enough is enough.

Posted by: cedric_lockhart | May 21, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

vick is a horrible QB. he may make a decent running back though not with the skins.

Posted by: rls1041 | May 21, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

I love when people prop up the life of an animal right there with humans. Demonstrates the worst kind of idiot...

As for Vick, NO. And it has nothing to do with his little illegal enterprise and the fallout from it. It's got everything to do with the fact that he sucks as a QB and hasn't demonstrated the ability to play another position. Kinda dumb to get a guy simply for the Wildcat formation when 1) the Skins are just about the only team that DOESN'T run it, and 2) even if they did you'll run it just a couple of times a game every once in awhile. Waste my time with another subject, RI.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 21, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

Still on Vic/No Vic, eh?

Well, I'm still in the "wouldn't mind" camp. But I just don't see it happening.

My guess is he'll get a pretty phat payday somewhere & it probably won't be here. I do think he's overrated. But he is a talented athelete. He'll play somewhere.

As far as the stone throwing moralists - I can see you pooping in your glass outhouse.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 7:54 AM | Report abuse

My guess is he'll get a pretty phat payday somewhere & it probably won't be here. I do think he's overrated. But he is a talented athelete. He'll play somewhere.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 7:54 AM

To say Vick is overrated is understated. Do you think it's a coincidence that Roddy White went from "underachiever" to Pro-Bowler now that he's got a legit QB in Matt Ryan instead of Vick rolling out and skipping passes to him? I think not. Vick leaves and we now find out that the Falcons actually have a couple nice targets there.

The PR nightmare aside, he's a lousy QB and awful leader. No one can deny his athletic ability, but unfortunately this isn't the NBA. Athletic ability won't get you too far in the NFL if you aren't supremely skilled too.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 21, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

The Scenario:

The Redskins go 7-9 in 2009 and 6-10 in 2010.

Zorn is fired.

Select the next best Redskins coach from the following list:

Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy
Herm Edwards
Bill Cowher
Steve Mariucci
Jim Fassel
a Belichek clone
a Parcells clone
Pete Caroll-USC
Kurt Ferentz-Iowa
Butch Davis-UNC


Moe takes Tony Dungy with an Ozzie Newsome clone working as general manager.

I'd offer Dungy more money than God to take over the team.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

NateinthePDX, Don't know exactly what your talking about as far as "taking a higher moral ground". Anyway, the point I'm making I'm a lot MORE upset about young Black males killing each other than I am about somebody abusing dogs, vicious and reprehensible as that is, I don't know about you but I value all LIFE, but I sure as hell value Human life over animal life.And I doubt if the SAME people who rant about Vick's dogfighting really give a dam about the senseless killing which goes on a lot more than dogfighting. If they were upset about BOTH, they would rant, write, and rave about BOTH.

If the young men who were killing each other looked like them and were in their neighborhood maybe they would write to the paper about how senseless, cruel, and inhumane that is! Get my drift?

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 21, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

'...he's a lousy QB and awful leader (Vick)...'


Perhaps Vick's biggest sin was leaving VaTech early.

Both he and his brother left Hokie-land early chasing money when what they needed was a heavy dose of maturity.

Now each is broke and don't have a dog's chance to live up to his potential.

BTW: the pun was intended.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 8:27 AM | Report abuse

He's paid his debt to society and now he should be allowed to earn a living again. Enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | May 21, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

moe, the bloom might be off the jays rose, so to speak....I'm not sure what the hype was, or if they're just in a funk, or what, but seems like much ado over nothing so far....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Original_etrod | May 21, 2009 8:40 AM | Report abuse

Mr.Moe, I agree with you on the fact that both Vicks left Tech too early and could have used some more maturing but like you say they chased the money. Why? You have to take into account their environment and the family was poor.

Still you can't use that as an excuse for the mistakes they've made, plenty of athletes and other people have come from the same environment and upbringing and have not made those types of mistakes.

The guy still deserves a second chance, probably not with our Skins, but somewhere.

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 21, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

As a leader and QB, Vick has had his "swan's song." Yet, his running capabilities could net him a running back in a hybrid (e.g., hybrid) offensive scheme!

Personally, I hope that he rots in hell for his disdain for animal life.

Posted by: rogerwallison | May 21, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Let's give this a rest, time to get another topic up here.

Posted by: 72Redskins | May 21, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Vick is far from a lousy QB. He's actually one of the most underrated QBs I've seen play the game. Traditional? No. But a winner? Absolutely. He's one of maybe 4 QBs in the past decade that can win a game by himself (Manning, Brady, and McNabb in his younger days being the other 3).

Atlanta's defense was never good under Vick's tenure. Only once did they ever place in the top half of the league, and they ranked 14th that year. He led the league's leading rushing attack for multiple years with Warrick Dunn (while solid, has never been a dominant running back) and, wait for it, TJ Duckett as his one-two punch. His best receiver was Peerless Price. His only target was Alge Crumpler who, suprise, surprise, fell off the face of the earth once Vick left. Vick had to carry that team on his back, or legs, to whatever success they achieved (only once under Vick did they have a losing record, and that was a 7-9 season). He had a career 57% winning percentage. The year he was hurt for the majority (2003), his team went 2-10. When he got back, the team went 3-1. Doug Johnson's career record under Atlanta (at the time of Vick) was 3-10. Matt Schaub's career record in Atlanta was 0-2. The year he left Atlanta, they went 4-12 (Leftwich, Harrington, Redman). Vick wins. If he had any sort of talent surrounding him in Atlanta, that team would have been one of the scariest teams to grace a football field in that time.

It's unknown what he can do after such a lengthy layoff, but if he's anywhere near what he was a couple years ago, and goes to a talented team with a defense to back him up (like, say, Minnesota) watch out. (But in fairness, I don't expect him to be what he was. Such a shame that a talent like that was wasted.)

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Vick never completed more than 56 per cent of his passes, the highest rating he had was 81.6.
He was overrated as a QB.

Posted by: jmy999 | May 21, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I have read all these posts and I must say they amuse me. I am a white male born and raised in Southern VA, and what is amazing me in all of this the fact that this man went to prison for killing dogs, I am a dog lover, however in my opinion no man should go to prison for killing an animal when everyday someone in this country gets away with killing a human without ever spending a day in jail. This man went to jail for 18 months, he lost everything he had, in my opinion he has more than paid for his mistakes. How can anyone say he shouldnt be allowed to play in the NFL when Adam "pacman" Jones cant go to a strip club without someone getting shot yet each time he is reinstated, another player got drunk, got behind the wheel and killed a woman but he is still in the NFL. Neither of the above mentioned players have paid anywhere near the price Mike Vick has payed, yet there are still people who say he shouldnt be allowed to play in the NFL. The man is a football player, in my opinion he is one of the most exciting players I have ever watched, regardless of passer rating or completion percentage the man knew how to win and he was fun to watch. The NFL is entertainment and in my opinion he would make the NFL alot more entertaining and exciting to watch. He has paid the price for his mistakes, its time to let him get on with his life.

Posted by: hudginsc | May 21, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't want Vick based purely on his footballing credentials. Sure he could run but call me old-fashioned - I want my QB to be able to throw the ball first and foremost. Unfortunately, Vick's downfall on the football field was throwing the ball. I always thought he must be a WRs nightmare cos you never know what he was going to do.

On top of this, the dog-fighting scandal would just be unwanted distraction for any football team to contend with. If he was a good football player then it might just be worth putting up with the distraction but he just ain't worth it.

Posted by: tartanskin | May 21, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

Rottweilers are vicious animals in nature. They are not Labradors or pugs etc. That being said I don't condone what he did. He has no other criminal record that we know about. He lost multi-millions and 2 years in the pen. He has paid his debt. Let him move on. Do I want him on the Skins...HELL NO. At least not as a QB. Maybe a kick returner or something of the sort. Besides he'll be a Raider before Danny pulls out his gold card.

Posted by: BingCreole | May 20, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Thats funny, I have owned 4 Rotties in my life and none of them were anything but extremely sweet dogs. The ignorance displayed by some is staggering.

Posted by: cstanton1 | May 21, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Myths:
1) Vick is a great QB
2) Vick has paid his debt to society
3) Dogfighting isn't that big a deal (its cruel, and involves illegal gambling)

Posted by: cstanton1 | May 21, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I voted NO because we don't need a QB in my opinion. If we needed one badly I wouldn't have a problem with Vick.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 21, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

I have read all these posts and I must say they amuse me. I am a white male born and raised in Southern VA, and what is amazing me in all of this the fact that this man went to prison for killing dogs, I am a dog lover, however in my opinion no man should go to prison for killing an animal when everyday someone in this country gets away with killing a human without ever spending a day in jail. This man went to jail for 18 months, he lost everything he had, in my opinion he has more than paid for his mistakes. How can anyone say he shouldnt be allowed to play in the NFL when Adam "pacman" Jones cant go to a strip club without someone getting shot yet each time he is reinstated, another player got drunk, got behind the wheel and killed a woman but he is still in the NFL. Neither of the above mentioned players have paid anywhere near the price Mike Vick has payed, yet there are still people who say he shouldnt be allowed to play in the NFL. The man is a football player, in my opinion he is one of the most exciting players I have ever watched, regardless of passer rating or completion percentage the man knew how to win and he was fun to watch. The NFL is entertainment and in my opinion he would make the NFL alot more entertaining and exciting to watch. He has paid the price for his mistakes, its time to let him get on with his life.

Posted by: hudginsc | May 21, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I find your post most amusing of all. By following your logic (and no, I don't believe you're a dog lover), even if just one person was able to escape jail on a murder rap that means you'd want ALL animal torturers/killers to be given a free pass. Think about it, thats exactly what you're saying. Its completely illogical.

Posted by: cstanton1 | May 21, 2009 6:19 PM | Report abuse

"have read all these posts and I must say they amuse me. I am a white male born and raised in Southern VA, and what is amazing me in all of this the fact that this man went to prison for killing dogs, I am a dog lover, however in my opinion no man should go to prison for killing an animal when everyday someone in this country gets away with killing a human without ever spending a day in jail."

You're from the "Two Wrongs Somehow Make A Right" school of thinking, I see.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

"have read all these posts and I must say they amuse me. I am a white male born and raised in Southern VA, and what is amazing me in all of this the fact that this man went to prison for killing dogs, I am a dog lover, however in my opinion no man should go to prison for killing an animal when everyday someone in this country gets away with killing a human without ever spending a day in jail."

You're from the "Two Wrongs Somehow Make A Right" school of thinking, I see.

No im not, but the precedent has been set. Even with the Commisioners new player conduct policy, players that have done far worse things in my opinion have been allowed to play, therefore IMO Vick should be reinstated. If the players i mentioned hadnt been reinstated, then i could see people making the argument that Vick shouldnt be reinstated, but that is not the case, and unlike the other players Vick was punished by the legal system.

Posted by: hudginsc | May 22, 2009 7:20 AM | Report abuse

I find your post most amusing of all. By following your logic (and no, I don't believe you're a dog lover), even if just one person was able to escape jail on a murder rap that means you'd want ALL animal torturers/killers to be given a free pass. Think about it, thats exactly what you're saying. Its completely illogical.

So let me get this straight, I state in my comment that I am a dog lover, but you, having never met me, are basically calling me a liar? That is pretty much the way i am taking this. So because I dont agree with your paticular view you call me a liar. Now the rest of your reply to my post was well thought out and rational but dont call me a liar, you dont know me and I dont know you so lets stop with the insinuations. But I will say this, never at any point in my post did I say Michael Vick "shouldnt" have been punished, I only stated that IMO the punishment he recieved was quite severe and that he has more than paid the price for his mistake.

Posted by: hudginsc | May 22, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

did Michael Vick murder someone?
did he embezzle money?
guilty of mail fraud?
Drunken driving?
Drug Policy of league broken?

No, No, no, no no.

Now he did participate in bullish behavior of animals, dogs.
For that he is guilty.

Vick is not a great QB, but folks there are 32 teams x 3 QB. That's 96 QB.
Of course I'd like to have Michael Vick as our #2 or 3 QB.
hey, let him rub back punts. Bet he'd do more than ARE has for us!

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | May 22, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Vick needs to pay for his crimes. He hasn't. Punk needs to hog tied and fed to some dogs as dinner.

You ladies need to stay out of talking about dogs. You dont have a clue.

Posted by: sheepherder | May 20, 2009 2:19 PM

YOU CAN EASILY IDENTIFY KKK MEMBER, NOT BY
THEIR WHITES BUT PRESENTLY BY THEIR WORDS.

Posted by: abxinc | May 23, 2009 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Would you hire a former Nazi? Someone capable of enacting these evils on even one other living thing is a psychopath. I will never cheer for such a menace.

Posted by: tylerdurden1 | May 25, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm not a big fan of Vick, especially for what he did to those dogs (I own a pit mix and I can't imagine him doing that to her), but I think he has paid for his crime. Would I want him on the Redskins? No way. Not because he killed dogs, but because he's not that good of a QB. Here's an article I wrote about where I think he will end up.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/181454-dallas-cowboys-sign-vick-not-really-but-it-wouldnt-surprise-me

Posted by: tmarine17 | May 26, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

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