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Hall's Monday Specials and a Football Camp

With a little more than three weeks left until training camp, I wanted to check in with a couple of updates.

Every Monday until camp opens (today and the next three Mondays, by my calculations), DeAngelo Hall will be talking to twitterers @Dhall23. He's billing these as Fan Appreciation Mondays and gets going in the afternoon.

While we're at it, you should also follow Rocky McIntosh (@rockym52 "The 4th was cool literally sat back watch fireworks ate some more and chilled with the fam...I'm out coach is callin'" at about 10:40 this morning), Chase Daniel (@ChaseDaniel), Chris Cooley (@thecooleyzone), and Trent Shelton (@TrentShelton).

...

There's a Chris Samuels football camp this week at Bowie (Md.) High School. His foundation and National Athletics will hold the camp for 14-to-18-year-olds.starting tomorrow (July 7) and going through Thursday. For more information, go to www.nationalathleticsent.com or call 877-NAT-ATHL (877-628-2845).
...

There've been a couple of important additions recently. Rick "Yay! His Name Isn't Jason" Maese, as most of you know, will join our coverage team and we're thrilled about that. The most adorable newbie, though, has to be Maya Reid, who joined dad Jason "The Mayor" Reid, mom Tenecia and big brother Joshua on June 24. All the Reids are happy and thriving.

By Cindy Boren  |  July 6, 2009; 11:58 AM ET
 
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Next: Haynesworth Expected to Settle Tomorrow

Comments

not first

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

June 24th is the greatest day in the world. LH would agree. So, she has my BDay and my Mom's name (Maya)...

CONGRATS..

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Noone, you LIE!

Learned, hope those blinders keep you pointed in the right direction..

CynCyty, thanks for the update! Nice to see some good news amongst the tragedy. Any way you can get the scoop on which 'Americas Game' won the vote-off on NFL.com? I missed the '82 special. 87 & 91 were AWESMOE!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

but you were.

Hey, JReid congratulations on the new one...just fantastic. Babies are the best. How old is Joshua? Hope he can deal with a little competition.

Don't worry Rikc; we won't call you Jasno.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 6, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Maese...let's see is that pronounced Maees?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 6, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Rick is from the Balitmore Sun and was recently right-sized

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Kinda like "Rikc," Stumped....Joshua is almost 2 and I have to tell you you're gonna hear from this kid. He was in the office last fall and charmed everybody. He was probably 15, 16 months old and he went around shaking people's hands like a politician. It was hilarious and adorable and we're all voting for him when he runs for office. As for his little sister, I guess I'll forgive her for not arriving on June 21...

Posted by: Cindy Boren | July 6, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

My DVR hates me and only recorded like 25 minutes of each of the America's game specials.

Grats JRied.

Posted by: Gweez | July 6, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Mozeltov JR

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

DikShuttle,

Don't know if you are a member of iTunes, but you can download the '82 special, its definitely a must see as a Redskin fan. Russ Grimm talking smack to Randy White! That alone is worth the price of admission. "50 Gut... That means we're running at you again, Randy." I love it, love it, love it!

Posted by: clark202 | July 6, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Why would Zorn/Blache/Olivadotti be calling Rocky on a holiday weeks before training camp?

Contract update?

Reminder to keep re-habbing the knee?

Posted by: McMetal | July 6, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Sorry Weez. I'm sure they'll run 'em again or sell 'em to us... hehe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Awesmoe, Clark!

My CowGirl fan niece is in town this week w/ her iPod - mebbe I could sneak it on to hers! hahahahahahah!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/07/06/2009-07-06_untitled__3mcnair06m.html

On the link provided above(Originally provided by 4th), it states his wife is devastated and had no idea about the affair. Now she could be lying, but it doesnt look that way.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 12:28 PM

On this link it tells the girl's side as seen by her friends and relatives:

http://tennessean.com/article/20090706/NEWS03/907060343/Girlfriend+had+hoped+to+wed+McNair

It says that "McNair took Kazemi, known as Jenny to friends, on trips to Key West in Florida, Las Vegas, California, Hawaii and McNair's farm in Mississippi, with the couple seeing each other often." Hard to believe that all this could be going on with the wife having no idea about it. Where did the wife think he was?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 6, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

It says that "McNair took Kazemi, known as Jenny to friends, on trips to Key West in Florida, Las Vegas, California, Hawaii and McNair's farm in Mississippi, with the couple seeing each other often." Hard to believe that all this could be going on with the wife having no idea about it. Where did the wife think he was?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 6, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Who knows? I saw the same thing and thought the same thing. However, we dont know what their relationship was like. How many "business meetings", did he tell his wife he had to attend, etc. I have a friend who has had this girl on the side for a little over a year now, and his wife has no idea. I have heard him come up with the most lame excuses to disappear, and she buy them.
Now on the flip side, if I told my fiancee any of those stories and tried to pull that, she would be on to me like white on rice. Of course her dad was in the FBI for over 30 years and she has this sense when things smell fishy.

Some ladies do not, and if you have money to blow when your man is out of town and you like malls, some ladies look at is a green light to get whatever they like. Who truly knows though. I mean that Senator was creeping out of the country and his wife bought the stories for years before he found his "soul mate", and he finally blew his cover.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Just wanted to raise a toast to the Redskins, period!

(wait til after work for the actual toast)

Also kind of nice not to have to read Canfy's gibberish

Posted by: peaceful2008 | July 6, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Where did the wife think he was?


an away game??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 6, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Who knows? I saw the same thing and thought the same thing. However, we dont know what their relationship was like.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 1:44 PM

You're right. Other people's relationships make sense to them, not necessarily to us.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 6, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

That sounds great Cindy, they can play together, and fight and do all those things kids do.

I'm on jumping on Josh's bandwagon.

(did someone say bandwagon?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 6, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Sahel Kazemi bought gun found at McNair crime scene, police say

By Kate Howard
THE TENNESSEAN

The gun recovered at the scene of the deaths of Steve McNair and Sahel Kazemi was purchased by Kazemi recently, Metro police have confirmed.

Kazemi, 20, died Saturday of a single gunshot to the head alongside former Titans quarterback McNair, who had two gunshots to the head and two to the chest. The gun was found under Kazemi’s body.

“We believe the pistol recovered from the apartment was purchased by Kazemi,” Metro spokesman Don Aaron said.

Police said the possibility of a murder-suicide is still on the table, but there are several other theories of the crime still possible.

Kazemi’s ex-boyfriend, Keith Norfleet, was questioned for several hours by police yesterday. Aaron said he is not a suspect, and there are still no suspects being actively pursued.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090706/NEWS03/90706040/Sahel+Kazemi+bought+gun+found+at+McNair+crime+scene++police+say+#pluckcomments

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"It says that "McNair took Kazemi, known as Jenny to friends, on trips to Key West in Florida, Las Vegas, California, Hawaii and McNair's farm in Mississippi, with the couple seeing each other often...Where did the wife think he was?"

Fishing.

Well, he came home with trout.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 6, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4304800

If Goodell throws the book at Vick or gives him and "indefinite suspension", then this would be a good fit for him. At least he would earn more than $10 an hour, or whatever the Boys and Girls Club is now paying him.

This League might actually take off because of Goodell, if he keeps suspending people indefinitely then, they know where they can go to still play and get a paycheck.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa

(repost):
Steve: Sorry about letting you go to jail the other night? But it's not the right time for this all to come out;

Sahel: What do you mean? Aren't you divorcing her?

Steve: well, it's more complicated than that. There's all that money and the kids, you it's hard.

Sahel: You lying b..tard, Boom-Boom, Boom-Bom

Or something along those lines


Nice post.

Good tone: not too much sarcasm, not too much irony.

But beware: there are som dudes on this blog who do nothing but criticize and hate whe you try to get a little creative with your posts.

Me?: I laugh at everything.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

The gun was found under Kazemi’s body.

That's the reason why they haven't called it a suicide. Pretty damn hard to shoot yourself in the head and fall on the gun. (if she shot herself on the side of her head)

Posted by: jm220 | July 6, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Welcome Rick - Now stop posting such negative things about the Redskins!!!! Oh wait, you haven't posted anything yet . . .

Posted by: thinker11 | July 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

"Why would Zorn/Blache/Olivadotti be calling Rocky on a holiday weeks before training camp?"


Theory/Answer:

To get under his skin.

To motivate him.

When you look at league stats for tackles/ints for linebackers, you see that Rocky McIntosh is a middling performer.

And remember, he was a 3rd round pick.

And remember, he's about due for a contractual re-up.

Does he deserve one?

We'll see this season. With the pressure and doubling teaming up the middle all because of Prince Al, several skins' defenders should have nice seasons and want to be 'shown the money.'

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Gatorskinz2000 has finally picked up on the UFL Vick rumor. :) Which has been around since Vick had about 1 year left in his sentence.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Moe, rocky was a 2nd rounder.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 6, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Congrats, JReid!

Posted by: Lisa_R | July 6, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

My DVR hates me and only recorded like 25 minutes of each of the America's game specials.

Grats JRied.

Posted by: Gweez

Gweez, you should be able to purchase DVDs from the NFL website - and America's Game is totally worth it - great show(s).

Posted by: Lisa_R | July 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

Me?: I laugh at everything.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 2:25 PM

Except The Hangover.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Dumbest thing I have seen posted on a blog about the McNair thing, has to be the following theory.

"The women was Arabic and it could have been a honor killing."

If you can figure out why that is stupid let me know.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

"He was a 3rd round pick."

He was a second round pick -- the 35th -- and they traded up to get him. And outside of the injuries, he's been remarkably consistent. Except for the second half of last season, which was something of a surprise. But he wound up with 87 tackles (60 solo), an INT and 5 passes defensed in 15 starts. Nothing wrong with that. But he's not a sack artist. Only had 2.

That might be what the Skins are looking to improve.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 6, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Dumbest thing I have seen posted on a blog about the McNair thing, has to be the following theory.

"The women was Arabic and it could have been a honor killing."

If you can figure out why that is stupid let me know.

Posted by: alex35332

I thought it could have been an honor killing as well.

Posted by: jm220 | July 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

According to the AP: "Abdi said police told him they are almost sure Kazemi was the shooter, but the 27-year-old nephew said he doesn't believe she would do it. Abdi didn't know what day of the week the gun was purchased or what type of gun it was."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090706/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_mcnair_killed

And unless there is a specific way one must fall after shooting one's self in the side of the head, it is not impossible to fall on the gun.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

Looking at McIntosh in comparison to the others in that class, he's OK. The two MLBs, Demeco Ryans and D'Qwell Jackson, have most of the tackles, of course, and Jackson also had 3 INTs, somewhat unusual for an inside man. The two other outside backers in the draft were Thomas Howard who went to Oakland, and Manny Lawson, who actually went in the first round to San Francisco. Howard had 13 more tackles than Rocky, plus a sack and an INT. Lawson only played in 14 games, starting 10, and had 3 sacks but only 45 tackles.

I'm not sure I'd take Howard or Lawson over McIntosh.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 6, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"The gun was found under Kazemi’s body.
That's the reason why they haven't called it a suicide. Pretty damn hard to shoot yourself in the head and fall on the gun. (if she shot herself on the side of her head)Posted by: jm220"

Most suicides don't. They eat the gun. Hard to see a beautiful young girl doing that, however.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 6, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

"When you look at league stats for tackles/ints for linebackers, you see that Rocky McIntosh is a middling performer."

What's interesting about this is over the weekend (or maybe last week) espn posted the Madden ratings for the NFC teams. Those rankings nearly completely reflected the statistical aspect of the players on the roster (with the exception of the big names). I found myself looking at players like Rocky Mac, Kedrick Golston, Anthony Montgomery, HB Blades, and Chris Wilson, and was taken aback at how others thought of these players.

We were a top 4 defense last season. Every one of those players, minus Chris Wilson, played a major role in that outcome. Meanwhile Dallas, who has a worse defense with more impressive individual statistics, are littered with "highly rated" players because of said statistics.

I tend to think people view free agents in a similar manner.

Rocky Mac may not be a dynamic, game-changing linebacker in the way that Lavar Arrington was, but he's a damn good player. His team output is overshadowed by the value people put on personal statistics at times, but this is exactly the type of player the Redskins should focus on re-signing (provided his knees aren't going to fail on him). A young guy that gets his job done and allows this defense to be great.

Posted by: psps23 | July 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Howard is probably just a notch above rocky......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 6, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Gatorskinz2000 has finally picked up on the UFL Vick rumor. :) Which has been around since Vick had about 1 year left in his sentence.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Little slow to the game on that one. I honestly thought Goodell would re-instate him shortly after his time is over, but I am not too sure anymore. It would make watching that League a little more interesting though, especially since he could be throwing to Stallworth.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I thought it could have been an honor killing as well.

Posted by: jm220 | July 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

JM,
here's why its not. All of this is based on stuff in the article about the girl friend.

1. She is not an Arab, she is from Iran so she was Persian.
2. The reason her family left Iran was because they were not Musli but Baha'i, which upon a search of Wikipedia shows no history of honor killing.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Vick will be suspended for the whole 2009 season.

Stallworth will be suspended for 2 years (length of his house arrest).

And Plaxico will get a 4 - 8 games suspension.

All can appeal, but Goodell is the appeal person.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

I would love to see the UFL get a hand full of Ex-NFL talent, just to see how a guy like that can light up a few ex-practice squad/pre-season all stars.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Vick will be suspended for the whole 2009 season.

Stallworth will be suspended for 2 years (length of his house arrest).

And Plaxico will get a 4 - 8 games suspension.

All can appeal, but Goodell is the appeal person.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Or they can go to the Upstart league...

not likely, but would make for a huge story. The Media would eat it up.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Alex I didn't have time read the article like you. Just based on the name and thinking that she was a Muslim is the reason why I after getting the name of of the young woman I thought it was.

Posted by: jm220 | July 6, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Leigh Torrence has found his calling, and it is in the Upstart Footbal League. Freakin awesome!!! Throw in Marcus Mason, and you have an amazing assembly of talent.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Here's a look at some important upcoming UFL dates:

June 11, 2009 - Check Presentation to Clark County School District (Las Vegas)

June 13, 2009 - Invitation-only Player workouts in Las Vegas

June 16, 2009 - Casa Grande Groundbreaking

July 2009 - Player signings

Early August - Team names announced and uniforms unveiled

September 1, 2009 – Training Camp Begins in Casa Grande, Arizona and Vero Beach, Florida

Early September - Team logos revealed

October 2009 – UFL "Premiere" Season Begins

November 19, 2009 – UFL "Premiere" Regular Season Concludes

Thanksgiving Weekend 2009 – Championship Game in Las Vegas

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

PSP, more evidence in my "stats are incomplete" argument in modern sports.

They are great tools in explanations of what happened, but they are only statistics, neither indicators of talent nor possible performance. It precludes the possibility of a unit being better than the sum of it's parts.

I believe this ties into the problem with overpayed rookies and a general fault in our modern information society. It is prone to hacks and half-truths.

Still, the conjecture is the fun for most and I understand that.

This overall argument was exemplified in the July 3rd barbeque I attended in which we argued: Who was more influential - Jodeci or Dru Hill? Which eventually degenerated into Bobby Brown vs. any other member of New Edition and R&B in general.

I concluded with the following: By some measure Bobby Brown had to be considered the king of R&B at his personal zenith, as he did mary the undisputed Queen of R&B at HER zenith. So whether by association or through merit, he achieved that status (albeit temporarily, or not).

If there is any doubt as to Mrs. Brown's reign as the queen of Pop music at that point, may I direct you to the National Anthem. Since her hallowed performance of this piece in the 1991 Superbowl the song has forever changed to reference her interpretation, sometimes exclusively. Unfortunately, most performing it lack the harmonic and theoretical understanding to justify the phrasing. They just regurgitate what they're provided with. I'm pretty good at that too... lmao.

__________________________________

And on McNair, i'm still thinking murder/suicide is too easy an answer. Would LOOOOVE to hear some other background on his activities, not that it's any of my SJKing business. Is ANYONE looking at other possibilities?

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Can someone confirm for me if this new league is NFL backed?

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Gator,
Go to their web site you will recognize a few of the players who are in the league. Arch Delux was picked for one team.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Is ANYONE looking at other possibilities?

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 3:31 PM

Just you and FRAK.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Most women who choose suicide by gun shoot themselves in the chest (heart area) rather than the head. They don't want to disfigure themselves. Head shots are not unheard of though.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Dik,
It's not NFL backed Money-wise but a handful of comments about the UFL has been mention by the NFL and NFL.com NFL Network website. Even our old buddy JaLaCa has a few articles on the UFL. http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/01/the-full-ufl-payscale/

If the NFL was against it you would probably not see anything on their websites about the UFL.

I track the minor league startups like a hound dog and this one has had a lot of positive stuff going for it.

Was supposed to be affiliated with Mark Cuban (then he had money problems and no more).

Has some big names owning teams.

All the Head Coaches and most the assistants are Ex-NFL guys.

Most the Front office guys are ex-NFL as well. The League President helped start up the Expansion Jaguars.

Contract with VS for TV broadcasts.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Jodeci had waay more influence over Dru Hill. Jodeci changed the way to operate a 'boy' band. They were allowed to be gangstas instead of preppy/cleaned cut type dudes....

I would go with Everyone else in New Edition over Bobby Brown. Michael Bivins (of BBD) birthed Boyz to Men and Another Bad Creation (ABC), not to mention BBD's success as well as our very own Johnny Gill....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

When did Bucky Brooks leave SI and join NFL.com?

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

They are who we thought they were is coaching in it. He is the San Francisco Teams coach.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

This is the guy I thought we should have drafted at DE in the 1st round....

Ayers Off To Fast Start In Denver
Posted by Aaron Wilson on July 6, 2009 3:25 PM
We recently wrote about how defensive end-outside linebacker Jarvis Moss, a former first-round draft pick, is still struggling to crack the Denver Broncos' lineup.

Well, it's reportedly the opposite experience for Broncos rookie first-round draft pick Robert Ayers.

The former University of Tennessee all-conference pass rusher could wind up starting immediately at outside linebacker or defensive end.

Ayers has taken the majority of his snaps with the first-string defense at linebacker, according to Pro Football Weekly.

The Broncos have been experimenting with Ayers at both positions in their 3-4 alignment.

With Moss' minimal production, the Broncos sorely need someone to generate a pass rush.

And Ayers' athleticism could provide a boost.

The 6'3," 272-pounder has 4.75 speed in the 40-yard dash. He registered 15 1/2 tackles for losses and three sacks last season.

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Most women who choose suicide by gun shoot themselves in the chest (heart area) rather than the head. They don't want to disfigure themselves. Head shots are not unheard of though.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 3:42 PM

Is this supposition or based on research you have read? I think research would prove your theory false. While women use guns less often to commit suicide (they prefer pills), most suicides by gun, whether man or woman, are accomplished through a shot to the side of the head.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

They are who we thought they were is coaching in it. He is the San Francisco Teams coach.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

As is Almost Redskins Coach Jim Fassel for the coveted Vegas/LA team.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

"Pretty damn hard to shoot yourself in the head and fall on the gun."

Really? That doesn't seem that hard to me at all. What if she was sitting down when she pulled the trigger, and just slumped over the gun after it fell? I can envision all kinds of scenarios where that would happen. Trust me, they had this one figured out about 10 minutes after assessing the crime scene. It doesn't take long to swab for gunshot residue on her hands.

"Hard to see a beautiful young girl doing that, however."

Apropos of nothing, she strikes me as surprisingly unattractive, or at the very least completely average. The kind of girl any average schmoe could pull. Opportunity must have been the operative word here.

What would they even have to talk about?

Posted by: McMetal | July 6, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Don't know about WHERE a female would use a gun, but from a survey I read recently, females are very unlikely to USE a gun at all to commit suicide. On the other hand, if this is a murder suicide, given the circumstances, it's hard to imagine much thought being put into the act, no?

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | July 6, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

FYI to you Gator Skinz
Currently All other upstart prospect leagues outside the UFL have fallen apart because of the economy, but around this time 2 years ago there were 3 prospect leagues all vying to start in 08-09, the UFL, UNGL, AAFL, UFL got the money backing it.

There is also someone trying to bring back the USFL in 2010-11, with all the teams that were in the league at the time, though considering that several of those old cities now have NFL teams. The website speaks for itself. http://www.newusfl.com/

Arena Football shut down and is going to try and return next spring, we will see what happens but I saw somewhere that they want to come back and put some of the failing franchises in bigger cities like DC.

There are several startup Arena leagues 2 or 3 have teams in the DC area, but as several here can tell you games are Single-A Indoor football is about as fun to watch as four on four flag football.

That is your update on Minor League Football out there. Feel free to ask any questions.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Thank you Alex.

When I was younger I used to see the Tampa Bay Bandits all the time. Spurrier was the Coach back then. When you look at the talent that came from the USFL, it was pretty amazing. And these were guys who were supposedly not good enough for the NFL.

Steve Young
Reggie White
Jim Kelly
Sam Mills
Herschel Walker
Nate Newton
Sean Landeta
Mel Gray

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

As an interesting side note to our O-line issues, we did this back in the day, and it probably wasnt our best talent evaluation:

Then there was the big, fat kid, Nate Newton, who was cut in 1983 by the Redskins joined the Tampa Bay Bandits and resurfaced with Dallas in 1985.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 6, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Gators,
I have not quite don't the research on this but I think, any time you look at the NFL and see an era where they lacked a quality 2nd league to grab talent from you will see that the completeness of the NFL as a whole suffers. CFL, USFL, Europe, all had quality players get their start there.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't take long to swab for gunshot residue on her hands.


that only proves that a shot was fired while she held the gun. was she living, or was it a set up by a third party. let's not get all first 48 about our own theories and assumptions. I think this case is far from being solved.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 6, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Especially if she never owned a gun or even fired one off until that week.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Here is what really happened.

Steve McNair is actually a spy for the USSR v2.0. She is a former spy in exile for Iran. They were in cahoots to rob fort Knox when Spy for the Redsox Nation Jimmy Falon found out and set them up.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 6, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

i think his wifey knew about it though. understandably, that angle hasn't been thrown out there in the mainstream media.

Posted by: lilhollywood10 | July 6, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Most women who choose suicide by gun shoot themselves in the chest (heart area) rather than the head. They don't want to disfigure themselves. Head shots are not unheard of though.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 3:42 PM

Is this supposition or based on research you have read? I think research would prove your theory false. While women use guns less often to commit suicide (they prefer pills), most suicides by gun, whether man or woman, are accomplished through a shot to the side of the head.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 3:57 PM

Heard it several times on medical examiner shows Dr G and Baden

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 6, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=DN&Dato=20090705&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=710006&Ref=PH

For whomever said this 20 yr old isn't hot, scroll through these pics. Especially the club ones. She is smokin and very shapely looking in them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Three of Steve McNair's wounds from a distance, according to autopsy results

By KATE HOWARD
Staff Writer

Three of the four gunshot wounds that killed Steve McNair were fired from more than three feet away, according to autopsy results.

One of the gunshots to McNair's temple was fired at close range, said Bruce Levy, state medical examiner.

Kazemi’s own gunshot wound was a contact shot, meaning the gun was touching her head when it was fired.

The medical examiner's office will be using all the information from the investigation to determine whether Kazemi’s death was homicide or suicide, Levy said, because it usually takes much more than a wound to classify a death as a suicide.

In this case, there is no note, and no living witness.

“All the autopsy tells us is that her wound is potentially self inflicted,” Levy said. “In these cases, the cause of death is obvious. The manner of death a little trickier. We like to have as many factors as possible before we make a determination.”

Levy said while the case is certainly consistent with a murder-suicide scenario, there are several things that are atypical: men are usually the perpetrator, and there is typically a history of domestic violence in the relationship or mental issues in the shooter. So far, neither factor is present, Levy said.

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Me?: I laugh at everything.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 2:25 PM |

You wasn't laughing in this post, was you, Chuckles?

=================================

mr.pink

"MistaMoe's posts = jibba jabba:long-winded dialogue full of bullsh*t and rhetoric."

Thanks for the compliment, sir.

And I see you've taken a name--Mr. Pink--that reminds me of the color of the insides of our wife's mouth.

That is, if you have a woman.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 2, 2009 10:19 PM |

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | July 6, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Levy said while the case is certainly consistent with a murder-suicide scenario, there are several things that are atypical: men are usually the perpetrator, and there is typically a history of domestic violence in the relationship or mental issues in the shooter. So far, neither factor is present, Levy said.

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 5:14 PM

That's why it's called "heat of passion." People act on impulse and do things they wouldn't otherwise do.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

littlegreenbag

"You wasn't laughing in this post, was you, Chuckles?"


You caught me.

I'd throw out the challenge flag, but the folks in the replay booth are shaking their heads and saying, "No way, Moe. You made a bad call here."

And with no Johnnie Cochran to stand beside me, I throw myself on the mercy of the court--such as it is.

I really have to apologize for the completely obscene nature of that post.

I was peeved because what annoys me about this blog are the dudes who are like movie critics: they contribute nothing but criticism of the efforts of folks who are just trying to keep this this going until football starts again.

There are dudes who do nothing but shoot folks down without offering their own opinions, ideas, commentary, and jibba-jabba to RI Nation.

Again: I apologize.

I'll try to keep it clean.

If I can.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

This McNair thing is pretty raunchy.

We're hearing all the usual things from the sporting universe about what a great guy he was. Sadly, the whole thing is actually pretty sleezy. Cheating on his wife with a girl almost half his age, ending up in what looks every bit to be a murder-suicide.

She's thinking he's gonna divorce his wife and they're gonna be together, and yet there's no sign of that actually going down (no papers, no knowledge from wife). Just a hunch but I smell a cheap lover's quarrel gone bad; I may be wrong, but it's still an all-around stinker.

I heard one quote from someone who said McNair loved kids and wanted to be a role model...I don't think I'll be talking up Steve McNair to my 3-year old boy as far as athlete role-models go...

It's all pretty sad...

Posted by: p1funk | July 6, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

4thfloor

"...For whomever said this 20 yr old isn't hot, scroll through these pics. Especially the club ones. She is smokin and very shapely looking in them..."

For me, it's not her looks but her age.

I'm 45 with a 19 year old daughter. There is positively nothing interesting or attractive about her friends--no matter how 'hot or shapely' they might be.

Young women at that age have the body of women, but the mind of a child: "...they look so good, but their minds are not ready...I'd rather talk to a woman as her mind is more steady..."

It's obvious that he, Steve McNair, wanted and got one thing while Ms. Kazemi wanted and didn't get something else.

And now, they both have the same thing.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

NFL.com fantasy draft

http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/story?id=09000d5d810daafe&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

only 4 Skins picked Portis, Moss, Cooley D.Thomas. 12 defenses picked and no one picked the Skins. I think that is very strange about the D.

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 6, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

L-hand,

I'm trying not to comment on this thing, but you called it "heat of passion." Passion does come into play, but this is not a situation where she (if she did it) momentarily lost control of her emotions and rashly committed the crime. If she bought the gun and ammunition a few days earlier, there's quite a bit of pre-mediation there, very little impulse.

She was young, impressionable, became deeply infatuated and lost her mind...

MMoe has the line on this one.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 6, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

--------------------------------------
For me, it's not her looks but her age.

I'm 45 with a 19 year old daughter. There is positively nothing interesting or attractive about her friends--no matter how 'hot or shapely' they might be.

Young women at that age have the body of women, but the mind of a child: "...they look so good, but their minds are not ready...I'd rather talk to a woman as her mind is more steady..."

----------------------------------------
Nelson Rockefeller said, you don't have to worry about having a conversion with your d..k in her mouth. But then he died with his mistress doing the o-magic trick for him. He was like 75+ and she was line 35. She did get a NY brownstone in his will.

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 6, 2009 7:16 PM | Report abuse

noone,
That draft was a crock. And those guys get paid to do it.

So they all think Tom Brady will have a tough time coming back I guess.

I forgive them for not picking the Skins D, cause we were not a playoff team.

As one commenter noted, they must still think a great RB is the best way to win FF.

HA!

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 6, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Moe, the Chi Ali/KRS One reference just about sums it up.

Stumped, I think she snapped once he confirmed or she came to understand that their relationship wasn't what she had been led to believe. He comes in after a night on the town without her and boom goes the dynamite. FWIW, her nephew said she bought the gun because she lived alone and wanted protection.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 6, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

Back to Football:

Anybody know just what the parameters of B Orakpo's rookie deal might be?

We got three weeks before camp and both he and Barnes haven't been signed.

Let's get them in the house and signed pronto.

And of course, rookie signings begat a discussion topic: Should the NFL adopt a rookie signing scale similar to the NBA?

If I'm an athlete, I think the NBA's system of pay works better as there are exemptions/exceptions there that the NFL has yet to adopt.

But of course, the guaranteed money issue is why the average NBA bawla sleepwalks through 75% of his career.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Skins fans IQ=120
Eagles =110
Giants =100
Cowboys fans IQ is below 20

Redskins seasons ticket $100
Terrel Owens out of Dallas, priceless.

Posted by: abxinc | July 6, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Moe, I think they should do some sort of rookie scale with performance bonuses and escalation clauses for performers. And those who don't perform the team won't be out big $$ for another Ryan Leaf. Or that Johnson idiot from Penn St we drafted a decade ago.

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 6, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Moe - I understand. I don't mind commenting because I am still in my 20s. But, I would never date a female that age because I know our conversation level would never be equal and I would look at her as a 'dumb blonde' and she would look at me a as nerd/geek.

For all those who bring up the cheating part, we don't know what's what at all regarding that. Maybe he did tell her...........

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 6, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa

"....they should do some sort of rookie scale with performance bonuses and escalation clauses for performers."


Agreed.

If I'm a GM with a top ten pick, I'd trade it away for an additional second or multiple picks as the money that goes into signing a guy in slots 1-10 is insane.

You give a kid a big deal, he's garbage, and he eats up sal cap space needed to get his replacement signed.

Talk about a vicious cycle.

Think of the money recently spent on the likes of David Carr, Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, and, well, Mike Williams: that's a lot of loot for guys who didn't live up to Mel Kiper's claims.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

noonefromtampa

"....they should do some sort of rookie scale with performance bonuses and escalation clauses for performers."


Agreed.

If I'm a GM with a top ten pick, I'd trade it away for an additional second or multiple picks as the money that goes into signing a guy in slots 1-10 is insane.

You give a kid a big deal, he's garbage, and he eats up sal cap space needed to get his replacement signed.

Talk about a vicious cycle.

Think of the money recently spent on the likes of David Carr, Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, and, well, Mike Williams: that's a lot of loot for guys who didn't live up to Mel Kiper's claims.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Moe, I think they should do some sort of rookie scale with performance bonuses and escalation clauses for performers. And those who don't perform the team won't be out big $$ for another Ryan Leaf. Or that Johnson idiot from Penn St we drafted a decade ago.

Posted by: noone_from_tampa | July 6, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse
I agree with noone. There should be a gradual ramp for 1st rounders, 2nd...7th rounders. And there should be performance bonuses for %age of plays, milestones such as 500 & 1000 yds rushing & receiving, tackles made, etc. Also making all-rookie, all-pro, etc.

Make it important for these young guys to be on the field, achieving personal and team goals.

Posted by: frediefritz | July 6, 2009 10:45 PM | Report abuse

I think this was why Abe Pollen renamed the "Bullets" Wizards. After that west bank (read American idiot) zealot killed Peres because he thought he would give the west bank settlements away in negotiations between Israel, the US and Islamic countries.

The bullets are still flying Abe. With this economy, the chaos and uncertainty its going to get worst before it gets better ... its sad but true.

Posted by: periculum | July 6, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Raising a toast against evil forces ... (Dallas)
whiskey for my men.
beer for my hosses.

Posted by: periculum | July 6, 2009 11:15 PM | Report abuse

peri

"...the chaos and uncertainty its going to get worst before it gets better ... its sad but true."

You forgot to add Death to the mix of "...chaos and uncertainty..."

Check out the list to date:

Keith Carridine
Mel Kaufman
Farrah Fawcett
Ed McMahon
Michael Jackson
Steve McNair
Roger McNamera
Billy Mays
Alexis Arguello
Karl Malden
Natasha Richardson
Ron Silver
Ricardo Montalban
Fred Travelena
Koko Taylor
John Updike


Times are tough, brother.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 6, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

You mean David...

Posted by: Curzon417 | July 6, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

curzon417


"You mean David...(as in David Carridine)...)"


You're right.

But that's a heck of a list of famous dead folks and we're just 7 months into the year.

Baby Boomers approaching middle age plus folks born during the Depression equals a lot of well-publicized deaths are about to snag our attention.

This factoid alone has tv media types spinning in their cynical swivel chairs at the thought of the ratings from funerals, discussed autopsies, talking head lawyers, and lurid family details.


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 7:09 AM | Report abuse

This factoid alone has tv media types spinning in their cynical swivel chairs at the thought of the ratings from funerals, discussed autopsies, talking head lawyers, and lurid family details.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 7:09 AM |

You talking about a new cable network, Moe? The Death Channel? "Now, taking you live to Santa Barbara....I mean, DEAD to Santa Barbara...."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 7:20 AM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator

"You talking about a new cable network: The Death Channel?"

LOL!!!

And you know we are about to get daylong Jacko Memorial Service coverage.

Gitcha popcorn ready!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 7:25 AM | Report abuse

psps23

"Rocky Mac may not be a dynamic, game-changing linebacker in the way that Lavar Arrington was, but he's a damn good player."


I ain't got nothing against Rocky Mac.

Plus: in the skins' defensive system, linebackers aren't expected to have great numbers--safeties are.

But remember when the bears wanted him when we wanted L Briggs, and we said, "No."?

In hindsight, was that a smart decision, given the type of player Briggs is or has become?

I'll let y'all answer that.

Meanwhile, I'm watching The Death Channel's salute to Jim "Don't Drink the Kool Aid" Jones.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

But remember when the bears wanted him when we wanted L Briggs, and we said, "No."?

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 7:35 AM | Report abuse

I think they wanted Rocky Mac AND a first round pick for Lance so I'm still OK with the 'No'. If they turned down Rocky for Lance straight up, I'd be upset.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 7:53 AM | Report abuse

I am worried about the thinness @ our LB spot. We have the old monster in the middle, bad-knees and a rookie outside. wasn't that supposed to be our strong spot a few years ago? Didn't the skins go through like years where we had constant talent at LB?

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Wow - who killed the blog?!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

Wow - who killed the blog?!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I am going to blame Vinny Cerato and Larry Michael.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Dikshuttle

"Wow - who killed the blog?!"

The blog isn't dead.

There just ain't no hard news to chew on.

It's the time of year when the world outside of football fights for supremacy--that is, up until the camps open in late July.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

alex

"Didn't the skins go through like years where we had constant talent at LB?"


I think that's why the team chose to add....

Cody Glenn
Robert Henson
Robert Thomas
Brian Orkapo
Chris Wilson

....to its linebacker group of....

Rocky McIntosh
London Fletcher
HB Blades
Alfred Fincher


....we'll get so see how it all washes out.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 7, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Coming up next on The Death Channel: This blog.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

I dunno moe, my 2 cents on each of those guys.

Rocky McIntosh- I don't ever see McI turning into a NFL superstar, but he has been reliable and is a capable starter on most teams. He seems to play his assignment and not get caught out of position. He is just a bit short of all-pro caliber.

London Fletcher - Lets face it he is the leader of the D, and has HOF potential. One of the most reliable MLB's in the last 10 years, just behind Lewis and Urlacher.

HB Blades - I was rooting for the kid when they drafted him but I don't see him adjusting as well as one would hope by now. I mean 60 tackels last year is solid. But no sacks and I don't know if we can say he has big play potential, if we see it happen this season I will eat my words with some A1.

Alfred Fincher - will probably never be more then a special teams, guy or spot reliever.

Cody Glenn- played 2 sides of the ball, HB/LB. I don't know how the team expects him to be used. But those kind of players always rase an eyebrow from me, as emergency depth players. Think Lorenzo Alexander type.

Brian Orkapo- I worry about moving a DE to LB, but hey when in doubt trust a coaches choice.

Robert Henson - Rookie from TCU, mixed feelings about that, but we have drafted some noted players from there.

Robert Thomas - a first round bust from 02, either he is fodder or here to play ST.

Chris Wilson - DE spot reliever, but I can respect guy who come up from the CFL.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Alright, I had to bring it back. Its that kid who is suspected of skinning and killing the 19 cats. The article is pretty interesting, the dude did it. He also seems a bit off his rocker.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/06/florida.cat.killer.charges/index.html

This is one of those cases where if they didnt catch him, he was going to turn into a serious issue.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Today on The Death Channel we do a salute to Larry King.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I think the issue with Blades has been that he's playing out of position. he doesn't have the size to play SLB, where he's gotten most of his reps. He's a natural MLB and could be a good one but we won't know until Fletcher is done (not that I'm ready for Fletcher to go).

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Moe, it was actually Rocky Mac and what ended up being Laron Landry for Lance Briggs.

I'll take Landry and RMac 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

On another note, GOOOOOCH to AC Milan!?! Craziness! This could possibly be the highest profile signing in American soccer history.

Posted by: psps23 | July 7, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

gator: "that kid who is suspected of skinning and killing the 19 cats."

He may have a future in politics.

wikipedia: "While he was a medical school student in the 1970s, Bill Frist, later a Republican U.S. Senator from Tennessee, performed medical experiments on shelter cats while researching the use of drugs on the mitral valve. By his own account, Frist improperly obtained these cats from Boston animal shelters, falsely telling shelter staff he was adopting the cats as pets.[1] ..In his book, Frist asserted that he succumbed to the pressure to succeed in a highly competitive medical school. Frist stated that he "treat[ed] them as pets for a few days" before he "cart[ed] them off to the lab to die." He went on to say, "And I was totally schizoid about the entire matter. By day, I was little Billy Frist, the boy who lived on Bowling Avenue in Nashville and had decided to become a doctor because of his gentle father and a dog named Scratchy. By night, I was Dr. William Harrison Frist, future cardiothoracic surgeon, who was not going to let a few sentiments about cute, furry little creatures stand in the way of his career... He went on to describe why he conducted animal experiments: "It can even be beautiful and thrilling work, as I discovered that day in the lab when I first saw the wonderful workings of a dog's heart . . . I lost my supply of cats. I only had six weeks to complete my project before I resumed my clinical rotations. Desperate, obsessed with my work, I visited the various animal shelters in the Boston suburbs, collecting cats . . . it was a heinous and dishonest thing to do."


Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Yo, that's some Michael Myers SJKish Bill Frist did right there!!!!!!!

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Thats creepy no matter who you are. But then we all knew that Bill Frist was not right in the head.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

There are similarities for sure, I am assuming you read the article and some of the kids statements he made to the police. At least Frist was doing it for College, this kid was just doing it for personal enjoyment.

Weinman "became excited and animated" as he told the detective about cat dissection research he had discovered on the Internet, the affidavit states.

"Weinman was asked to expound on what he meant and he repeated, with noted excitement, 'It just makes a certain sound, a tearing sound," says the affidavit.

According to the affidavit, as an officer questioned the teen, he noticed what appeared to be a cat scratch on his arm.

"I got them from a stray cat that I feed at my mom's house," Weinman said.

The teen "was eager to show" the scratches and took off his shirt so that photographs could be taken, according to the questioning detective's account, which is detailed in the affidavit.


It sounds like this kid and Frist went to the line, except this kid kept going and Frist stopped.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"When asked if they were frustrated that their initial attempts to catch the assailent proved ineffective, detectives replied 'No. There's more than one way to skin a cat.'"

Hiooooo! Thank you, I'll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waiters.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Hiooooo! Thank you, I'll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waiters.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse


HA!!!! Now thats funny!!!

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Ocho Cinco to Twitter during games....

In an interview with radio station KGOW in Houston via Sports Radio Interviews Bengals WR Chad Ochocinco says he has big plans for Twitter: "I like it. I like it because it gives me the opportunity to reach out to thousands of people at one time. It gives me a chance to get my story across when something goes wrong ... It's big for me and I'm taking it a step further. I have my own application coming out where people will be able to interact and follow me. You know more than through just the keyboard and reading my messages - you'll actually be able to follow me and when the season starts, it's going to get even worse. I'm going to really make it fun. I'm using Twitter during games, during halftime, after the games. I'm going to be taking it to the next level."

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

So if the McNair thing wasn't a murder suicide, then why did the GF have a gun that had been fired and who did she shoot? I suspect a gun shot victim would do all kinds of strange things in their death throes and clutching a gun to the chest is probably not unheard of. Sometimes the most obvious explanation is the correct explanation. It is a real shame. Anyone here want to talk about why hand guns should be illegal?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

Good

Posted by: abxinc | July 7, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

So far, two Iranians have killed two American Icons. Martin Bashir, the death squad interviewer, prompted Michael Jackson court case; although found not guilty, Michael never recovered from an event that eventually led to his death. Still on Bashir, it seems that every Icon he interviewed wind up dead, remmember Princess Diana?
Who killed Air McNair? Another individual with Iranian ancestory named Sahel Kazemi. The trend has
just started, who is next? Who will be the next victim of an interviewed by Martin Bashir? Or who will be the next victim of an Arab uncivilized, retarded honor killing? How did the US Immigration attract these
evil personalities from a region that have zero belief in the freedom and culture of the Americans?
You can discard or think for a minute, the choice is yours.

Posted by: abxinc | July 7, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

why hand guns should be illegal?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 12:49 PM

It doesn't matter. It's all about the culture that needs to be changed....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 1:08 PM | Report abuse

Anyone here want to talk about why hand guns should be illegal?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

2nd Amendment.

Unless we are talking about re-writing the Bill of Right.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

abxinc, I assume thats an attempt at whit.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

On the LBs, don't be shocked if Henson turns into a player. Only saw a little video of him, but he moves really well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 7, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

It is a real shame. Anyone here want to talk about why hand guns should be illegal?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

The Guard at the Holocaust Museum was killed by a regular Hunting Rifle, should we ban those as well? How many people in Rural areas depend on Hunting as a source of food? Are they to go back to Bow and arrows, and what if someone kills someone with that?

What 4th said above about the Culture is spot on.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Unless we are talking about re-writing the Bill of Right.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I am up for that discussion. Have been working on a new copy for some time now in fact. Though I think first you intrinsically need to re-write the constitution, to modernize our democratic-republic with some of the ideas that came up post United States that are now considered fundamental to a functioning democracy in other nations. Namely a vote of non-confidence and a stronger legislative branch with greater accessibility to non-majoritarian opinion.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

"
The still-murky circumstances of the deaths puzzled some close to the case. "Nobody thinks it makes any sense that this girl did it," said Trudy Norfleet, Keith Norfleet's stepmother. "She'd been at our house a few times for holidays, dinners. She was a very quiet girl, didn't have a whole lot to say."

Norfleet and Kazemi met in Jacksonville, Fla., when he was 20 and she was 16. Their dating spanned four rocky years, punctuated by arguments and periodic breakups. Although Norfleet knew Kazemi and McNair had been dating for several months, he and Kazemi kept seeing each other, Trudy Norfleet said.

"She's been dating both of them," Norfleet told The Baltimore Sun. Speaking of her stepson, she said: "He's totally in love with that girl. I guess he would have done anything to spend time with her. Every time they broke up he was devastated."

Keith Norfleet, who could not be reached for comment, has said in published reports that Kazemi had intended to end her relationship with McNair. Relatives of Kazemi, however, have told news outlets that she believed McNair planned to divorce his wife, Mechelle, though no divorce filings had been made.

Norfleet manages a White Castle restaurant, his stepmother said, and he could not compete with the wealth of McNair, who met Kazemi at the Dave & Buster's restaurant where she waited tables. McNair treated Kazemi to fancy trips and gave her a Cadillac Escalade for her 20th birthday in May.

Still, Norfleet and Kazemi were reportedly together on Thursday, hours after Kazemi was arrested and charged with driving under the influence. She was in the Escalade with McNair and a third person when the police pulled her over between 1 a.m. and 1:30 a.m. Thursday, Aaron said.

It was Thursday evening when Kazemi bought the pistol from a person Aaron would not identify. "This was a private sale from person to person," he said, declining further details. Under federal law, it is illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase a gun, said Kristin Helm, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
"
..........................

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-md.sp.mcnairjul07,0,6421648.story

So she was playing the millionaire at the end of the day. I think it always plays out this way when a rich older guy courts a pretty younger woman. What keeps them there is the money and extravagent lifestyle that they prob never had.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"You can discard or think for a minute, the choice is yours. Posted by: abxinc"

Think I'll put that one in the discard pile.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

abxinc = bosshog

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Some stuff I didn't know about women and gun suicides. Of course this situation was different, but still:

"In a study of 238,292 individuals who legally purchased handguns in California in 1991, researchers at UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center report that suicide is the leading cause of death among recent purchasers of handguns. In the first week following handgun purchase, the firearm suicide rate for handgun purchasers was 57 times higher than the adjusted rate for the state's population as a whole. Within the first year after the purchase, suicide accounted for 24.5 percent of all deaths and 51.9 percent of deaths among women ages 21-44. And for the next five years, the risk of committing suicide with a gun remained at least twice as high for the handgun purchasers as for the general population. These findings are reported in the November 18 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

"Our study found that gun buyers are at particularly high risk for committing suicide within a week after they acquire their guns," says emergency medicine physician Garen Wintemute, professor of epidemiology and preventive medicine at UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center and lead author of the study.

The UC Davis study also highlights a little known fact that women who buy guns are particularly at risk for death from gun violence.

"It was surprising that our study found a huge difference between men and women, and the impact on risk from suicide or homicide from recent purchase of a gun," says Wintemute. "We found, in some cases, nearly 40 times as many suicides among women who bought handguns as we expected. Their risk for dying from gun homicide was doubled as well."

Firearm suicide accounted for 31.2 percent of all first-year deaths among women who purchased handguns, and 0.3 percent of all deaths among women in California during 1991-92. Among younger women, ages 21-44, who made up 75.4 percent of all women who purchased handguns - more than half (51.9 percent) of all first-year deaths were suicides, and 37.0 percent were firearm suicides. Of all handgun purchasers who committed suicide by firearm during the six-year study, 25.0 percent of the women and 13.7 percent of the men did so within a month of buying their handguns."


Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

thats some wild stuff Samson, weird and wild stuff

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Wouldnt a Stronger Legislative Branch throw off the Separation of Powers?

One could argue with the last administration it has already happened.

Doesn't the Government already have too much power over everyday life? Too much control over what goes on in the home?

Just my Personal Opinion, Governments reach should end at my Driveway. What I do in my home, is my business to an extent. Now if I am killing people or kidnapping them and holding them in my basement that is one thing. But how do you draw that line? My Dad let me have beers with him when I was 18, legally it was wrong, but I dont see a problem with that. Of course having a beer with my old man and allowing underage parties are two different things.
I dont think there is a way to draw a line. I could be wrong, but it would end up getting so complex it would confuse most people.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Sad sad stats, Sam.

... have they dealt with how the gun got UNDER the body yet?

I'm still in the 'other party' camp.

If McNair was really the playa he was makin' out to be, it stands to reason he was playing numbers somewhere...

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

abxinc = bosshog

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 1:24 PM

No, not a chance, bosshog is a racist. I'm not.

Posted by: abxinc | July 7, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I AM talking about amending the Bill of Rights to say the American citizens have a right to single shot rifles and shotguns with a barrel length of at least twenty inches but not to guns with barrel lengths less than twenty inches. The constitution was written in a time period when guns were as much a part of life as using a well for water. The hand gun of that time was a single load weapon of limited range and accuracy. Today, such a weapon would be considered a toy. Times have changed, and so should our Bill of Rights.

I don't have a problem with rifles and shotguns. Generally, these types of weapons are not associated with crimes (I will grant you there are exceptions). I understand the sport of hunting is as much a part of our culture as the red, white and blue. This isn't about hunting. This is about any Tom, Dick or Gladys being able to buy a hand gun, conceal it, and perpetrate a crime with murderous intent.

Let me point out that I am not a bleeding heart liberal that thinks we should re-write the constitution, but I am what I would consider a well-traveled person. When I explain our gun rules to citizens of other countries they just don't understand. In their countries, a murder with a hand gun is about as common as pigs flying. And that is the point. Other countries do just fine without the right to bear a handgun.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

gatorskinz2000,

Well of course I'd like to see a actual right to privacy if something like that were to hypothetically happen. You don't have that right now and in fact your dad could have been arrested in that case. But they are complex issues as you said. I would personally like to see that added to our bill of rights. Along with the right to free medical access and something about the right to quality education, and some formal decision on the separation of church and state, along with a separation of the state and the market.

Now, none of that will ever happen, but a boy can dream.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Week 1 opponent:

NEW YORK -- New York Giants linebacker Michael Boley has been suspended by the NFL for the first game of the regular season for violating the league's personal conduct policy.

Boley, who spent the first four seasons of his career in Atlanta before he signed with New York in the offseason, was arrested in May of 2008 and charged with battery on his wife after she accused him of becoming "too physical" after an argument. He was with the Falcons at the time.

The league said the suspension stems from that episode.

Boley had surgery June 24 to repair a torn labrum in his hip. The team said the estimated recovery time for the injury is eight to 10 weeks, which would take him to midway through training camp before he is ready to practice.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | July 7, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

'suicide is the leading cause of death among recent purchasers of handguns'

How many people with inoperable brain tumors go out and buy a gun for home protection?

Why didn't they take a study of all of the people who purchased a 3 foot length of rope and find out what the leading cause of death among them was? Or maybe a study on people who tend to start their cars with the garage door closed?

That's a prime example of creating a statistic to support your argument.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

"You can discard or think for a minute, the choice is yours. Posted by: abxinc"

Clearly abxinc has never chosen his own second option.

Posted by: mack1 | July 7, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Giants stadium Beer: $7.50
Death channel for a month on Comcast: $4.50
Skins over G-Men early Sept.: Priceless

Posted by: ElYeah | July 7, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

First of all, find me one statistic created not to support an argument or prove a point/theory. Second, I think you need 6 feet of rope to do it right.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Redskinhead,

No one would have burned a flag in 1787 either, so should we scrap free speech? There was no Paparazzi then, should free press go, too?

The 2nd ammendment is not about hunting. It's about being able to protect yourself from an oppressive government. If our military has hand guns and assault weapons then we should, too. The day may come when the government that we depend on so much turns against us. Armed citizens keep the playing field level.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

touche' Alex, but you get my drift. That's about as slanted a study as you're going to find.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

There are powerful right to privacy laws on local and federal levels. You do need a good lawyer to get the benefit of them, however. Y'know, things like warrants, etc.

There's no such thing as free medical. If you're not paying for it, someone else is... stop being silly.

And there is quality education available to everybody. Whether anyone pays attention is an entirely different story.

There is separation between church and state. But to ignore the principles you're founded on is ridiculous. I was just reading Jefferson's words on the 4th on freedom of religion. Seems right to me. I'm sorry, did some government entity come down on you because of your religious beliefs? You can sue, you know?

May I recommend Joseph Conrad's discussions w/ Bill Moyers? It's fascinating.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I understand that my Dad could have been arrested. Right now I am a father of a 9 year old Mini-me and when he is 18, I will be on the Porch smoking a Pig Shoulder and sharing a beer with him. Some of our laws get too intrusive, and some things need to be left for Parents to decide what is right and wrong for their children. I also understand that some people might see that and be appalled. But, in a way it should be, too each their own, as long as they are not infringing on anyone elses freedoms. However, some people make it their business to get into your business.

And yes, a boy can dream, I believe we have our own versions of our particular Utopia. But I end up putting mine in a pipe and smoking it.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Hey - when I was comin' up 18 WAS legal. And it used to be 16 before that.

So take your 'morals' laws and parade them up & down M.A.D.D.'s street. I don't want 'em on mine.

Besides - isn't it better to think of them more as 'guidelines' ;-p he he he

///maps///
///suchas///

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

First of all, find me one statistic created not to support an argument or prove a point/theory. Second, I think you need 6 feet of rope to do it right.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 2:36 PM

And, third, where do you go and buy "three feet of rope"? "Sorry, sir, we're all out of the three-foot packages. Will you take 20 feet?"

Maybe a marine supply store, although there they'd become suspicious if you asked for "rope". To them, it's a line. And about all you could do with three feet of it is to practice your bowlin knots.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

O_E,
I am in complete agreement that guns mainly should be kept legal to protect people from a government, but that argument is better suited to automatic weapons RPG's and me finally getting that anti-air craft gun on the roof of my building, more then pistols.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse


What he said.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

T. Jefferson

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I disagree entirely. I also reiterate: Handguns are having a positive effect in Florida where it is legal to carry them at all times, AND legal to brandish them if you are threatened.

Everyone was scared it was going to become the wild west and the exact opposite has happened.

And it stands to reason. If you're a criminal with an illegal weapon, who would you prey upon? An unarmed person or one you weren't sure about? I know it sounds simplistic - but maybe it's just that simple.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

And, third, where do you go and buy "three feet of rope"?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

The same place where you can rent a gun and buy a bullet.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Hey - when I was comin' up 18 WAS legal. And it used to be 16 before that.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:49 PM

And most people in the world live in countries where there is no such thing as a legal drinking age. You have to be a really advanced society like ours to limit alcohol instead of relying on peoples' judgement.

We brought au pairs here from several countries and all were shocked that they couldn't drink in our "advanced" society. And it wasn't so much that they wanted to drink as they wanted to go to clubs and dance. At least, that's how they told the story.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

"How many people with inoperable brain tumors go out and buy a gun for home protection?Why didn't they take a study of all of the people who purchased a 3 foot length of rope and find out what the leading cause of death among them was? Or maybe a study on people who tend to start their cars with the garage door closed?
That's a prime example of creating a statistic to support your argument.Posted by: Original_etrod"

I'm assuming your point is that the guns are being purchased with the intent of self-harm. The counter-argument would be that having the gun often leads depressed people to impulsive suicide attempts. Somewhere in between would be the argument that women buy the gun to protect themselves, then wind up turning it on themselves.

But creating stats to support your point? You can do that without reviewing nearly 300,000 cases. No, the evidence suggests these guys were engaged in serious research. They found what they were looking for, but to a degree they didn't expect, and with a gender disparity they never would have anticipated.

The thing that surprised me was the extent to which guns figured in suicide. I wouldn't have picked a number over 50%. I feel confident that if you looked at various developed European or Asian nations, you wouldn't find that. Now, some war-torn Third World nation, sure.

Wonder what it is in Mexico? There's a nation with a lot of guns, relatively few of them registered.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"I disagree entirely. I also reiterate: Handguns are having a positive effect in Florida where it is legal to carry them at all times, AND legal to brandish them if you are threatened.Everyone was scared it was going to become the wild west and the exact opposite has happened.And it stands to reason. If you're a criminal with an illegal weapon, who would you prey upon? An unarmed person or one you weren't sure about? I know it sounds simplistic - but maybe it's just that simple."

And maybe not. Can we see the research? Links would be fine.

Posted by: DikShuttle

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I know quite a few people with histories of depression, who have at one time or another expressed a interest in owning a gun for home protection. Despite my pointing out the obvious, I assume that when one is purchased that clock's gonna start ticking.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Sam, ...or you could do it. I'll see what I can find...

Alex, I know first hand what you're talking about there. Lost a very close friend two years ago. I do not own a gun and wouldn't want my family to.

That doesn't mean I want criminals knowing I'm unarmed.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

By the way, last time I looked, the average age at which a teen had his first drink in the DC metro area was 12. Might have gone up or down since. But the fact is, hardly anybody in the US has ever waited until they were legally of age to have their first drink. It's de facto decriminalized.

The purpose of underage drinking laws is to restrict availability. Biggest proponents: the insurance industry.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Excuse me, the Davis researchers only looked at 238,000 cases.

That's a lot.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Heeeere ya go:

"Fairfax, Va.: Do any state or local law enforcement agencies support your position?

John R. Lott: What is interesting is how even police departments that opposed right-to-carry laws have changed their minds after minds after the laws have been enacted. Soon after the implementation of the Florida law, the president and the executive director of the Florida Chiefs of Police and the head of the Florida Sheriff's Association all admitted that they had changed their views on the subject. They also admitted that despite their best efforts to document problems arising from the law, they have been unable to do so. The experience in Kentucky has been similar, as Campbell County Sheriff John Dunn says: "I have changed my opinion of this [program]. Frankly, I anticipated a certain type of people applying to carry firearms, people I would be uncomfortable with being able to carry a concealed weapon. That has not been the case. These are all just everyday citizens who feel they need some protection." This occurs time after time.

As to other general gun issues, a 1996 mail survey of 15,000 chiefs of police and sheriffs conducted by the National Association of Chiefs of Police found that 93 percent believed that law-abiding citizens should continue to be able to purchase guns for self-defense. Similar later surveys have indicated almost the same estimates."

From here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/04/20/DI2007042001760_pf.html

If you still need hard numbers, I'm sure they could be dug up somewhere. I'm sure the NRA has 'em and is waving them like terrible towels...

Please keep in mind that until this occurrance I was actually anti-gun. Oh, that and some Doonesbury cartoon about the bill of rights... wish I still had it.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Blood of Patriots and Tyrants. It happens.
I pray we can make it a figurative bloodletting in this day and age.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 3:34 PM | Report abuse

[dikshuttle sent a link]

Thanks for the link. I saw that article, which is really an online interview/discussion. Here's the link to the counter-argument:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/04/20/DI2007042001588.html

I was thinking of some research.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Two killers brought the blog back to life.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Quoting a slave owning President is irrlevant in my book......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Quoting a slave owning President is irrlevant in my book......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse


Then your book is too small. He wasn't perfect but he had a point.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

I have an idea. What if guns were simply rounded up and made illegal? They serve one purpose: Killing. And if there happen to be any hunters on this blog, use a bow and arrow. The United States is always at the top of the list for number of murders. Why could this be?

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

The day that I know every person around me is carrying a gun is the day that I feel safe.

Posted by: psps23 | July 7, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

The United States is always at the top of the list for number of murders. Why could this be?

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I blame Texas

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. --Thomas Jefferson

Then your book is too small. He wasn't perfect but he had a point.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 3:49 PM

So is his. The government didn't fear the slaves because they weren't regarded as people......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

I saw this in a few places. This dude is a former Sun writer........

http://sportsjabber.net/2009/07/07/tim-lumber-my-take-on-the-mcnairsahelmurder/

Intriging read with a new twist the media is not focusing on......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know when the Michael jackson Memorial is being held?

Posted by: TheCork | July 7, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

"The day that I know every person around me is carrying a gun is the day that I feel safe.Posted by: psps23"

Geez, now that I know you're packing, I'm booking a flight to Canada.

Just kiddin', but really, you must not spend a lot of time with mental patients. Or you do but don't know it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

So, some news agencies are picking up this story.....

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=10652774

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Not to get into politics for more than a post, but I've always wondered why the 2nd amendment is limited to guns. After all, its says "arms". Guns are a subset of arms. At the time it was written, the most powerful arms in the world were guns. If you believe the 2nd amendment provides a right to bear arms, it seems to me that there is a right to bear rocket propelled grenades, tanks, f-16's and even nuclear bombs.

And 4th, Jefferson's positions on slavery are far more complex than you suggest, including a significant role in the end of slavery.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 7, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

And if there happen to be any hunters on this blog, use a bow and arrow. The United States is always at the top of the list for number of murders. Why could this be?

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 7, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

It is apparent you need to see some families that live in rural areas that depend on hunting for meat. Also, a good bow hunter could take you out at hundred plus yards. How is that different?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I knew it was Lee Thompson Young all along!

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

4th,

Michael Jackson (allegedly) f&cked kids. Does that make Billie Jean a crappy song?

I wouldn't quote Jefferson in a human rights but owning slaves is irrelevent to whether he was correct on this issue.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

I am damn good with a bow and can honestly 100 yards is an near impossible shot, unless using a compound bow/crossbow. The Olympic distance is 70 meters or apr. 230 feet.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

AS long as there is man on this planet there is an inherent evil that resides. Where there is a will there is a way. Guns, knives, Bow and arrows, poison, a cast iron skillet, cars, bare hands, if the intent to kill is there, an instrument will be used. You can ban them all but, you cant take out jealousy, rage, anger, mental issues, etc out of the human race. These are factors that will drive people to kill.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"At the time it was written, the most powerful arms in the world were guns. If you believe the 2nd amendment provides a right to bear arms, it seems to me that there is a right to bear rocket propelled grenades, tanks, f-16's and even nuclear bombs."

Which underscores why Jefferson's intention has no bearing in this day and age. Handguns will never put fear in the government's eyes. That era is gone.

Besides, if it ever comes down to turning against your gov't, I highly doubt the fact that the gov't considers it "illegal" will make a difference.

Posted by: psps23 | July 7, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Stability of the Nation outweighed weather slaves should be free in Jefferson's opinion. And he now has hundreds of black relatives he birthed that the 'white' side of his fam rufuses to acknowledge.

My father's ancestors were slaves of the 1st President. I have done enough research on this issue to understand. America's issue came before thier freedom.......

(And Mike Jack messing with kids is speculation. TJeff and GWash owning and having sex with slaves is pure fact)

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

I am damn good with a bow and can honestly 100 yards is an near impossible shot, unless using a compound bow/crossbow. The Olympic distance is 70 meters or apr. 230 feet.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 7, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse


I didnt think anyone used anything but Compound bows these days. Alex, if you are that good, you should be able to stand on the goal line and hit your target at the other goal line using a Compound bow. Getting the right hit and tracking the kill down is another story.

I figured you'd be the guy who could kill a deer like in Rambo First Blood, jumping out of a tree on it and stabbing it with your knife. If IH8dallas had his way, you would have to beat it with a Styrofoam bat and hope it died of exhaustion.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

"It is apparent you need to see some families that live in rural areas that depend on hunting for meat. Also, a good bow hunter could take you out at hundred plus yards. How is that different?Posted by: gatorskinz2000"

Yes, but would he? And I don't know if we'd have to worry about concealed carry.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

OE, problem with your argument is that TJ did not "allegedly" own slaves he owned slaves.

And Z, Jefferson didn't even free his own kin.

The fact is that at the time of the Declaration of Independence blacks were not thought of as human by many and to them all men were not created equal. Even women weren't created equal. To recognize this rather large flaw does not diminish his contribution to the formation of this country.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

It is apparent you need to see some families that live in rural areas that depend on hunting for meat. Also, a good bow hunter could take you out at hundred plus yards. How is that different?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 7, 2009 4:08 PM | Report ab
How many times do you read in the newspaper: " Innocent bystander killed in drive by bowing" That is my point, making guns illegal all together would cut murder rates by 90%. Guarantee it.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 7, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

gator: "AS long as there is man on this planet there is an inherent evil that resides. Where there is a will there is a way. Guns, knives, Bow and arrows, poison, a cast iron skillet, cars, bare hands, if the intent to kill is there, an instrument will be used. You can ban them all but, you cant take out jealousy, rage, anger, mental issues, etc out of the human race. These are factors that will drive people to kill. Posted by: gatorskinz2000"

True, but the thing about guns and suicide is that they're so effective. Use a knife, pills, a rope, suffocation, asphyxiation, to harm yourself -- there's actually a moderately high failure rate. With guns, there isn't.

Although I know a guy who shot himself in the head and survived. He used the comic book technique of pointing the pistol at the side of his head, above the ear, and firing. Didn't expect such a kick upwards. Put a deep crease in his skull and a nasty concussion, but that was it.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I disagree entirely. I also reiterate: Handguns are having a positive effect in Florida where it is legal to carry them at all times, AND legal to brandish them if you are threatened.

Everyone was scared it was going to become the wild west and the exact opposite has happened.

And it stands to reason. If you're a criminal with an illegal weapon, who would you prey upon? An unarmed person or one you weren't sure about? I know it sounds simplistic - but maybe it's just that simple.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 7, 2009 2:59 PM

FL - Gun vs Fist

PASADENA, FL -- An elderly man on his way to visit his wife at a Pinellas County hospital ended up shooting a man in self-defense in the hospital's parking lot, according to the Pinellas Sheriff's Office.

Detectives say 83-year-old Nathan Snyder was driving to Palms of Pasadena Hospital when he reportedly cut off a motorcycle as he was driving along Pasadena Avenue, about 1/2 mile north of the hospital, just before 3pm Friday afternoon.

The motorcycle driver, 64-year-old George Hall, followed Snyder into the hospital's parking lot and confronted him, investigators said.

When Snyder opened his car door, detectives say Hall began punching him in the head as Snyder was sitting in his front seat.

Snyder, who told detectives he feared for his life, pulled out a handgun and shot Hall in self-defense, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Deputies were called to the scene after witnesses called 911. Hall was treated at Palms of Pasadena Hospital for his gunshot wound and later arrested for burglary-battery. He was released on bond just before 9 am Saturday morning.

Snyder was transported to Bayfront Medical Center for the injuries he sustained after being punched by Hall. He's currently listed in good condition

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 7, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Learned, you are correct and I don't mean to offend you in any way, 4th.

For the record, I don't think MJ did it. But what I'm saying is that whether he did or not has no bearing on whether Billie Jean is a good song. Same with Jefferson and Washington.

Samson,
The problem I have with the results of this study is that it only shows enough to prove its point. Of the 238,000 people who bought handguns, how many died within 5 years? Let's say it was 1000. Of those 1000 who died, 510 committed suicide. Of those who committed suicide, how many did it 5 years later by slitting their wrists?

The people who conducted the study made their point by using ambiguous percentages rather than actual numbers. When I see something like that, I automatically assume it is trying to mislead.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

(And Mike Jack messing with kids is speculation. TJeff and GWash owning and having sex with slaves is pure fact)

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 4:20 PM

Yeah I would fork over $20 million for just allegations. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Posted by: noonefromtampa | July 7, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

No offense taken. I just read alot of non-mainstream history books during my adulthood that makes me reject most of the thinkings we learned in 'social studies' during our school years.....

Noone - When you are worth a billion it is cheaper to pay $20 Mil than to pay $30 Mil to the lawyers and waste your time....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

learned -- fact is Jefferson was a slave owner.

He lived in a time and place where slave owning was in integral part of the culture and economy. Still, it was an institution which he wasn't comfortable with ... a radical stand for a Virginian in the 1780's. Jefferson played a key role in the 20 year compromise that led to the outlaw of importing slaves (a law passed during his presidency) -- one of the most important steps along the way to the abolition of slavery. Given the realpolitik of the time, where the South had a much greater interest in maintaining slavery than the North did in seeing it abolished, it was a major step.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 7, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse

But what about the people were already there. You just tell them that they are SJK out of luck because you were born in the South? And the only way they'll ever be free is if they die? That is what I was saying above. Putting the so-called 'good' of the American Economy over the position of enslaved humans?

Weak......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

"Samson, The problem I have with the results of this study is that it only shows enough to prove its point. Of the 238,000 people who bought handguns, how many died within 5 years? Let's say it was 1000. Of those 1000 who died, 510 committed suicide. Of those who committed suicide, how many did it 5 years later by slitting their wrists? The people who conducted the study made their point by using ambiguous percentages rather than actual numbers. When I see something like that, I automatically assume it is trying to mislead.Posted by: Original_et"

I confess I'm not following that argument. What's ambiguous about percentages? Why assume somebody is misleading you? The actual numbers are readily available to examine. If you want a nice opinion piece, try the Sept 08 issue of NEJM -- authors are Matthew Miller/ David Hemenway, Harvard School of Public Health.

Even though (I'm told) 90% of suicide attempts don't involve guns, the ones that do are so frighteningly successful that the presence of a gun gets considered a major risk factor. Not the only one, mind you. But a significant one.

I'm not pro or anti-gun. But suicidal people are often portrayed as intent on suicide, resistant to intervention, when in fact they aren't. Their impulsive, and the suicidal impulse is often transitory. If you can keep them from succeeding, they often come out of the depressive fog.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Z, Jefferson did not have to own slaves he chose to own slaves. There were many others who lived in Jefferson's time who did not own slaves and thought it was an abhorrent and inhumane practice. If Jefferson was truly an "abolitionist" he would have abolished slavery where he could - on his property.

Again, Jefferson was a brilliant man but that is a stain on his legacy.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse


I wouldn't call sportsjabber a "news organization." Tim Lumber ends almost every paragraph in his "story" with an exclamation point! The last one gets two!!

Posted by: mack1 | July 7, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

here's the link to that Journal piece. Make up your own minds. But it's an interesting issue.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/10/989

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I disagree entirely. I also reiterate: Handguns are having a positive effect in Florida where it is legal to carry them at all times, AND legal to brandish them if you are threatened.

Everyone was scared it was going to become the wild west and the exact opposite has happened.

And it stands to reason. If you're a criminal with an illegal weapon, who would you prey upon? An unarmed person or one you weren't sure about? I know it sounds simplistic - but maybe it's just that simple.

Posted by: DikShuttle


Naw, I'd go with simplistic. For one thing you aren't taking into account demographics. Average age in Florida is deceased, which throws off your aim.

If the NRA had its way, they'd require all babies be issued guns at birth. Starting with Goo-Goo Glocks.

Posted by: TheCork | July 7, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Okay, okay, I'll shut up on the subject, but here's the link to the graph:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/359/10/989/T1

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

This book answers a lot of questions re suicide. Chapter 9 discusses gunshots.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

It appears the link doesn't work. The book is "Suicide: Theory, Practice, and Investigations" by Holmes and Holmes. You can read it through google books.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

4th, looks like Tim Lumber didnt' get any wood on it.

Myspace comment posted after shootings, according to a real news source.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 7, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Samson, thanks for the link. That definately outlines the impulsive nature suicide.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Lumber!!!

Posted by: mack1 | July 7, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

I don't think giving a bunch of people the okay to carry weapons around is really going to stop the criminal element from doing what they do. Sure. It might make someone a little more hesitant about committing a crime, but let's say that person who wouldn't normally be packing is a bit of a hot head and one day his neighbor pushes him over the edge. The presence of the weapon is too much of a temptation. You pull a trigger in just a millisecond and it can cost you a lifetime of regret. No. I believe the banning of hand guns is the answer. The number of violent deaths in countries with strict gun control is so much less than the USA. It is a fact. People are weak. You put something in their hands that gives them power over others and they will utlimately use it. Think about it. Would that kid that robbed Sean Taylor had been nearly so bold if he were carrying a knife instead of a hand gun? I don't often quote Southern Rock lyrics but Lynrd Skynrd said, "Handguns are made for killing, they ain't good for nothin' else..." and truer words were never spoken.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

No. I believe the banning of hand guns is the answer.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that's the answer. Just look how well it's worked for drugs.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Z, Jefferson did not have to own slaves he chose to own slaves. There were many others who lived in Jefferson's time who did not own slaves and thought it was an abhorrent and inhumane practice. If Jefferson was truly an "abolitionist" he would have abolished slavery where he could - on his property.

Again, Jefferson was a brilliant man but that is a stain on his legacy.

Posted by: learnedhand

I don't think we're that far apart. My reading of history says that Jefferson was troubled by slavery, but didn't see how it could end quickly without destroying a country. Hence the Constitutional compromise that led to the end of importing slaves, which he signed. My sense he was a slave 'owner' less by choice and more by circumstance and that his views evolved over the course of his life. Famously, he was intimate with Sally Hemmings.

The biggest stain is that he never freed his slaves, though some speculated that had to do with his chronic debts -- that he'd essentially owed mortgages on his slaves (a disturbing concept itself) making him unable to free them since he didn't have that right. Its not clear to me if he would have freed his slaves under different circumstances.

Its easy (and correct) to make the argument that owning slaves was morally wrong. But I'm not sure how to separate a person from his time and place. That's the biggest challenge because it has no answer. Given the teachings and politics of the time and place, Jefferson was quite progressive.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 7, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Kind of on the subject of Founding Fathers, I just had a Samuel Adams Cherry Wheat ale. Holy crap. It's 'slap your mamma' good!

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

http://www.somalicruises.com/

this is unreal........ take a cruise to shoot pirates!!!

Posted by: 1965skinsfan | July 7, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN: "McNair met Kazemi when his family ate often at the Dave & Buster's restaurant she worked at as a server ..."

Cornversation overheard an hour ago:

"Honey, why don't we have dinner at Dave & Busters tonight? You and the kids will love it. They have the hottest servers, er, I mean servings. ... Ouch! Ow! Sweetie, don't do that! You know I meant servings!"

Dave & Busters can say a sweet goodbye to whatever slice of the "young family" market it had.

Posted by: BiggerVance | July 7, 2009 7:46 PM | Report abuse

From ESPN: "When McNair's roommate, Wayne Neeley, got to the condo at midday, what he thought he saw was his friend sitting on the couch and Kazemi lying on the floor. So he went into the kitchen."

Now riddle me this. How does a dud go into a place, see his friend perfectly motionless sitting in a chair not acknowledging his presence and his friend's girlfriend also perfectly motionless stretched out on the floor like she passed out on the spot and instead of moving in closer to check out the scene walk into the kitchen? Geeseth.

Posted by: BiggerVance | July 7, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

check out Jason Whitlock's take on Steve McNair...and Whitlock gets paid to preach!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9777174/Don't-be-so-quick-to-make-McNair-a-hero

Posted by: Vicc | July 7, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Slavery, guns and suicide.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 7, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

vicc--Thanks for putting that up. I thought he had a good point until he rolled out the stereotype at the end:

"Steve McNair was flawed in the same way as most American men. Too many men think financial success is their primary and most important contribution to a relationship with their kids, wives and/or girlfriends."

Jason Whitlock is stereotyping all American men based on the cruds that he hangs with.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 7, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

"Yeah, that's the answer. Just look how well it's worked for drugs.Posted by: Original_etrod"

people don't get addicted to guns.

although now that I think about it, that would explain a great deal...

Posted by: Samson151 | July 7, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

learned -- fact is Jefferson was a slave owner.

He lived in a time and place where slave owning was in integral part of the culture and economy.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 7, 2009 5:06 PM | Report abuse


Good point zcezce,

I love it, when given the chance to prove decorum supercedes logic. While TJ did own slaves, he did not treat them as inhumane as our blog-colleagues would assume.

Bear with me:
"But a clue lies in the informal language Lincoln used before he won the presidency. Friends said he love darkie jokes and even saw fit to use the N-word now and then. That sounds terrible now, but keep in mind the culture at the time. Only the most estreme liberal whites took offense at racist jokes, and Lincoln's opposition to slavery put him in a small minority. To stop its expansion and eventually end it altogether, he needed to win over more than a few racist. He did that with rhetorical virtue--he talked the audience's talk. Many disliked his party's antislavery platform, but they liked him. Whether Lincoln actually was a racist or not doesn't matter rehtorically; his outward attitude was an effective ethos gambit.

Here we find ourselves back in the realm of decorum, but of a special kind; this decorum has nothing to do with clothing or table manners. I has to do with the ability to match the audience's beliefs. Lincoln made his audience well dispose toward him; emancipation was easier to accept coming from a racist than from one of those insufferable abolitionists up in liberal Massachusetts. If he had sermonized about racial equality the way they did, he never would have become president." -Jay Heinrichs, "Thank You For Aruging" (p.59-60)

You see TJ never 'really' had a choice if he were to be successful.

Same reason no one here really says anything good about Vinny Cerrato or our O-line, for fear of being called a names such as 'Snyders Kid' or 'pollyanna'!

Same reason Homosexuals were afraid to come outta the closet, until recently.

Same reason

Posted by: Vicc | July 7, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

t_e

I enjoyed reading that article as well. Whitlock is probably the first paid columnist I've read to take a cynical view on McNairs death.

Posted by: Vicc | July 7, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Same reason no one here really says anything good about Vinny Cerrato or our O-line, for fear of being called a names such as 'Snyders Kid' or 'pollyanna'!

Posted by: Vicc | July 7, 2009 9:30 PM |

Dude - you must have missed my bro Banger's post on the Vin man earlier. Here it is for your edification:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Most of the Draft Gurus feel like he got a steal.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | June 27, 2009 9:24 PM

He didn't just get a steal. He cleverly engineered it. He suckered the Jests into thinking that the Skins were going to trade up to get Cleveland's pick in order to corral Sanchez. The Jests bit and arranged their own deal with Cleveland in order to have Sanchez for themselves. Cleveland was going to use their pick on Orakpo but instead he slid to 13 where the Skins were more than happy to grab him. Brilliant behind the scenes maneuvering by Vinny. There ain't many GMs in the NFL who could do what he did.

Posted by: BangerVance | June 27, 2009 10:08 PM |

Posted by: BiggerVance | July 7, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Dude - you must have missed my bro Banger's post on the Vin man earlier. Here it is for your edification:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Most of the Draft Gurus feel like he got a steal.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | June 27, 2009 9:24 PM

He didn't just get a steal. He cleverly engineered it. He suckered the Jests into thinking that the Skins were going to trade up to get Cleveland's pick in order to corral Sanchez. The Jests bit and arranged their own deal with Cleveland in order to have Sanchez for themselves. Cleveland was going to use their pick on Orakpo but instead he slid to 13 where the Skins were more than happy to grab him. Brilliant behind the scenes maneuvering by Vinny. There ain't many GMs in the NFL who could do what he did.

Posted by: BangerVance | June 27, 2009 10:08 PM |

Posted by: BiggerVance | July 7, 2009 9:55 PM | Report abuse


I read that and thought it was very interesting. I even responded a few posts later:

Brilliant behind the scenes maneuvering by Vinny. There ain't many GMs in the NFL who could do what he did.

Posted by: BangerVance | June 27, 2009 10:08 PM | Report abuse


Tread softly...there are several RI hamsters who consider your lingo, blog-heresy. They are not afraid to speak up..

Posted by: Vicc | June 28, 2009 12:36 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Vicc | July 7, 2009 10:04 PM | Report abuse

OMG at anyone who tries to make an excuse for slavery in america. Congress just enacted a formal apology a month go. An APOLOGY........

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 7, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

4th floor:

Gee, it only took this country what, one hundred and forty-three years to recognize an apology was politically correct?

Posted by: glawrence007 | July 7, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Pop Quiz:

1. How often do you apologize for a crime you did not commit?
a)NEVER
b)sometimes
c)most of the time
d)always

2. "Why vote republican if U black?"
a)Because it's my opinion and my vote
b)Because I'm not afraid of backlash from Styles P
c)I don't vote
d)I DON'T BECAUSE IT'S NOT DECOROUS

3. Why should I respond to Vicc?
a)Because he's an insensitive jerk who is also ill-informed
b)BECAUSE I HAVE A CLEVER AND AGRESSIVE RESPONSE
c)Because I'm willing to discuss
d)I shouldn't

4. What have I learned about decorum?
a)Murder could be legal if majority agrees
b)If I wanna be a successful actor or musician, support Obama and sell his name
c)If I want to attend a Raiders football game without getting injured, I better not wear 'Maroon and Black'..ooops..I mean Burgandy and Gold
d)ALL OF THE ABOVE

(Hint: Questions 2-4 may have multiple answers)

Grades will be posted next week

Posted by: Vicc | July 8, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Vinny the Draft Engineer.
So if he did engineer it, that means that the FO didn't want to draft a QB at all, which means that going after Cutler was just a way of covering their tracks after that brilliant Machiavellian game in the draft.

Or they really wanted Sanchez or Cutler and just could get the deal they wanted.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 8, 2009 2:56 AM | Report abuse

Vinny and Keith Norfleet both eat asparagus...just a coincidence, or maybe not.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | July 8, 2009 2:58 AM | Report abuse

OMG at anyone who tries to make an excuse for slavery in america. Congress just enacted a formal apology a month go. An APOLOGY........

Posted by: 4thFloor

WOW! Someone tried to make an excuse for slavery. Now I remember why I take breaks away from this blog.

Posted by: jm220 | July 8, 2009 7:08 AM | Report abuse

"There ain't many GMs in the NFL (Vinny Cerrato)who could do what he did (somehow 'trick' the browns/jets to the skins could draft B Orakpo."

I'd give up some dap for the move between Vinny and the Jets after both Sanchez and Orakpo show the league what type of players they are.

And perhaps Vinny will use his Wiley Coyote draft acumen sometime to acquire the occasional quality offensive linemen to show us he can also do what other GMs regularly: rebuild the team front lines.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Was unable to sign in yesterday, but wanted to weigh in on some of the stuff going on:

1. I'm a card carrying member of the NRA, been around guns most of my life, yet I've never used a gun for ill gotten gain. My point is that if you ban hand guns, or guns in general, people will find the next thing to perpetuate their lazyness/commit crimes. Take away guns, and they'll use a bow-arrow, take that away, and knife related crimes will rise.

2. The whole MJ thing yesterday was an absolute circus. Lets stop with all the pomp and cimcumstance, and call this what it is, which was a glorified money grab/publicity show by the family. For 364 days they can't stand to be around each other, but in the name of the almighty dollar/publicity they've put their differences aside. Lets call this what it is, he was a person who abused drugs, and had inappropriate relastionships with children, sorry, just because he was a talented performer, doesn't make that stuff go away.

3. If the sun doesn't start to shine soon, I'm gonna be grumpy all year long....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 8:14 AM | Report abuse

"Why vote republican if U black?"

I hate to open a can of worms, but if the young people out there acutally opened up a history book, they'd learn the Democratic Party had its collective foot on the aspirations of black folk in this country a lot longer and to a greater degree than the Republican Party ever did.

Southern Dems supported "jim crow" laws, the KKK, legal segregation, workplace-housing discrimination, ignored lynching, and fought to block school intergration even when the courts ordered them to do so.

No matter what the young say, the Republican Party never had its hand at the throats of black folks in the ways listed above.

For the young, being a Democrat is 'cool' and a Repbulican 'not cool.'

The philosophical differences between the parties have been watered down to an MTV/BET level where image is indeed everything, and an red elephant and blue donkey symbolize complex ideas for an illiterate tuned-out electorate.

The contemporary beef young people have with the Republicans is one moderate and liberal members of the party have: it caters to a narrow-minded, suspicious few at a time when the nation's demographics all point the other way.

And there is where the Repbublic Party is wrong.

But history shows the Democratic Party has a greater lists of wrongs that too many young folk choose to ignore.

BTW: vote for the people you know and agree with the best--regardless of party.

That's what this black republican does.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

GREAT post, Beanie!

Did you get to look over that WaPo chat from the pro-gun author I posted yesterday? Extremely thorough and logical discourse on the topic.

And on the MJ production, I have a few thoughts. While I couldn't sympathise with the attendees and felt the whole thing was more than a little forced, I do understand the dynamic at play in loosing an icon, albeit a sullied one. As stated before, I am just too creeped out by that guy's life and choices to regret his passing. I know it may put me in an extreme minority, but I don't actually think he was 'all that', from a musical perspective. His influence on pop-culture is undeniable. His songs were big hits that everyone knows. But his music was derivative and did not advance the medium. Pop/R&B is still Pop/R&B before and after he effected it. And some of that song writing is pretty pedestrian.

Now this will REALLY put me in the dog-house: But perhaps the Jackson family's most amazing contribution was on display last night. I fully realize how in bad taste this is but at least I won't be labled a hippocrate. Did you SEE Janet last night?!??!!!! whaPOW!! It was like she had separate lighting just for that trunk. THAT's the Janet I remember & love.

Let the lambasting begin...

///maps///suchas//

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

From PFT:

Redskins' Veterans Won't Have To Spend The Night At Camp
Posted by Aaron Wilson on July 7, 2009 10:00 PM
Washington Redskins coach Jim Zorn just made himself more popular with the team's veteran-laden roster.

According to Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, Zorn informed the team recently that players with four years or more in the league don't have to spend the night at training camp in the team dormitories.

Per the report, the Redskins' vets will be allowed to go home and remain there overnight during camp. However, they will obviously have to return on time in the morning for meetings and practice.

Zorn told La Canfora that the impetus behind the move is to try to keep the team fresher one year removed from running out of gas following a 6-2 start.

The veteran-friendly practice isn't unprecedented around the league.

Former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick used to let veterans spend the night at home, but John Harbaugh abolished the practice last year when he took over.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 8, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

dik, thanks, I didn't get to check out that chat, if today isn't crazy busy, I'll check it out. What, to me, made the whole charade worse yesterday, was the cling-ons, who just wanted to get some face time...just gave the whole thing an extra sleezy feel to it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

The people who hate on Micheal Jackson didn't throw stones when Elvis left the building.

So put your rocks down.

A person's life choices and mistakes are the sum total of what makes him what he is.

Folks knew what time it was with MJ. But celebrating a person's life doesn't mean you show up with black roses and hate.

What, you want your son to stand up at your funeral and say, "Dad was okay, but he drank, smoked weed on the sly, looked at porn, didn't pay his taxes, cheated on mom, lied to his boss, and checked out my sister's friends whenever they had sleepovers."

Please.


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

I don't know if I buy that as what Vinny did, unless we have some evidence that he had a plan all along.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I'm concerned that Zorn may go over the top with his 'Take it easy' approach to this offseason. He got burned my making it too tough last year and he may be going too far the other way this year.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

"A person's life choices and mistakes are the sum total of what makes him what he is"

Once is a mistake, seems to me that if you read the Vanity Fair articles on this, you'll see this was clearly, not a 'mistake' but rather a lifestyle he choose.

"What, you want your son to stand up at your funeral and say, "Dad was okay, but he drank, smoked weed on the sly, looked at porn, didn't pay his taxes, cheated on mom, lied to his boss, and checked out my sister's friends whenever they had sleepovers."


Actually, I want my son to say that I never did those things, because I CHOOSE not to do those things. Every day I choose not to smoke/drink/run around on my wife. Life if full of choices, you have to make good choices everyday. I like you moe, so don't take this as preaching. Michael chose to surround himself with children. He made this choice, because he wanted the opportunity to exploit them. Lets NEVER forget that. Lets not just sweep this under the rug just cuz he was a talented musician.

Celebrating a person's life also doesn't mean you ignore what they did to kids. If he weren't MJ, if you or I did this, we'd be in jail. So there you go....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 8:59 AM | Report abuse

Moe,
I make fun of Elvis (the man) as much as I did Mike Jackson (the man). Both were great artists but very weird individuals.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Jackson's accusers were in it for the money. If someone molested my kids, I wouldn't drop charges because they paid me. I don't care how much money it was. I'd want them at least in jail and at most dead by bunga bunga (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bunga-bunga)

He was an odd dude and he made some bad choices but I don't believe kiddie touching was one of them.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

Etrod,

I'm not sure of ANYTHING Zorn is doing. I just hope he's right & I'm wrong.

Moe - wtSJK?! What's so special about dying on the toilet? Actually, the people who lauded Elvis are pretty similar to those who laud the gloved one. They both worshipped idols. They just come from different demographics. I don't own a single Elvis record. I don't own a single MJ record. Pop music is for sheep.

The one thing I can say for Elvis, which doesn't really have much to do with him, is that he popularized Black music for White people. If he hadn't done it, someone else would have, though. Other than that, pretty much a narcissist.

Once they reach icon status, it really isn't up to them, rather, the mob. At least I think that's how the dynamic works.

And I would much rather they say that about me at my funeral than speak a bunch of plattitudes while thinking, "oh, and he also liked to sleep in bed with little boys. And he had those elephant man bones" Sorry, you can't expect me to get behind that - alive or dead.

I would hope the people who love me, love me because of my faults, not despite them.

Jimmeny Crickets, he's memorialized in J. Koons's collection of Banality . He bleached himself colorless... What is there to admire here? That he made a ton of money off royalties?

Please tell me where the redeeming factor is - I'm getting more depressed as we go.. lol.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

BTW,
Even though its not the Skins, I thought people would find this post by the Bog interesting.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/07/how_the_nats_lost_last_night.html?wprss=dcsportsbog

Watch the washington nationals do some incredibly incompetent stuff.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I saw them loose the first night at Colorado in an ultra-low scoring affair.

Zzzzzzz. How do you have a low scoring affair in Colorado?!!!111!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Dik,
Its the nats, they lose any way you can think of.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Boswell's has a pretty good analysis of the team this morning as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/07/AR2009070701614.html

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

lmao, Alex. Sooo glad I'm a Marlin's fan... hehe.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"...I make fun of Elvis (the man) as much as I did Mike Jackson (the man). Both were great artists but very weird individuals."

Truth be told, James Brown's influence is greater than Elvis' and I've rocked Prince's "Purple Rain" in the years that I stopped listening to "Thriller".

And to me, 'weird' is subjective.

Would you want s 'weird' peaceful, cool friend or a violent, narcissitic normal one?

Anybody who is any kind of artist--no matter the medium--is going to be a 'left of field' type person in some way.

MJ was an obvious case of a social anxiety disorder and sexual confusion run amok, and like Elvis, John Belushi, Kurt Cobain, et al, was done in by 'friends' who wanted to get by with a little help from proximity with fame and fortune: and this final point is what all of their deaths so sad.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"...I make fun of Elvis (the man) as much as I did Mike Jackson (the man). Both were great artists but very weird individuals."

Truth be told, James Brown's influence is greater than Elvis' and I've rocked Prince's "Purple Rain" in the years that I stopped listening to "Thriller".

And to me, 'weird' is subjective.

Would you want s 'weird' peaceful, cool friend or a violent, narcissitic normal one?

Anybody who is any kind of artist--no matter the medium--is going to be a 'left of field' type person in some way.

MJ was an obvious case of a social anxiety disorder and sexual confusion run amok, and like Elvis, John Belushi, Kurt Cobain, et al, was done in by 'friends' who wanted to get by with a little help from proximity with fame and fortune: and this final point is what all of their deaths so sad.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

The people who hate on Micheal Jackson didn't throw stones when Elvis left the building.


Had there been Blogs and the Internet, you bet they would have. Elvis and MJ were similar in a lot of ways. There will be debates on which Michael was better the black one or white one, just like Elvis fans compete on which one is better, the young one or the old fat pill popping one.
But to say there weren't people throwing stones when he died, is pretty presumptuous of you. Like I said before, had there been internet and blogs, I would put any amount of money down that people would have thrown stones. Remember they only used to show him from his hips up, because the older group of people thought he was corrupting the youth. They even probably said he deserved to die with his devil hip thrusting ways and drug use.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

bean

I'm not defending pedophilia.

And I'm a fan of MJ's music, not him or what he was as a person: who could be?

But, let me tell ya, I got kids, and wouldn't ever let them spend time alone with any adult, no matter the situation.

And again, like others, you really have to question the motives of parents who'd let their son spend unchecked alone time with an obvious sexually confused male adult.

Like others, I think some folks decided subconsciously or otherwise to 'pimp' their kids to get paid.

Yes, that's cynical, but what do you expect from the King of Sarcasm.

Tee-Hee.....

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth makes surprise court appearance
staff reports • July 7, 2009

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FRANKLIN — Former Tennessee Titan Albert Haynesworth made an unscheduled appearance in a Williamson County courtroom today, hoping to settle a case in which he is charged with reckless driving and driving a vehicle with expired registration.


But Circuit Court Judge Jeff Bivins told him to come back Thursday at 9 a.m. to enter a plea.


One court official said it’s likely Haynesworth was trying to avoid media coverage of the plea.
Haynesworth, who is now playing for the Washington Redskins, was involved in a vehicle collision on Dec. 13. Police said he was driving a black Ferrari on Interstate 65 in Brentwood, passing cars and traveling well above the posted 70 mph speed limit.
When Haynesworth attempted to pass a 1999 Mercury Marquis driven by Corey Edmondson,
a police report states that the Ferrari made contact with the Marquis, causing the vehicle to slam into a concrete barrier. Black paint from Haynesworth's Ferrari ended up on Edmondson's car, according to the lawsuit.
The incident occurred just four days after Haynesworth appeared before a Williamson County judge and was placed on supervised probation for driving more than 100 miles per hour on I-65 in March. Among the conditions of Haynesworth's probation was that he not commit any new offenses for 30 days.
District Attorney General Kim Helper said that because prosecutors were not aware of the new charges in Brentwood city court until after the 30-day probationary period ended, Haynesworth could not be charged with violating probation, which could have led to a jail sentence.
Haynesworth’s case had been scheduled for review on July 21.

Posted by: iseyij | July 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

But history shows the Democratic Party has a greater lists of wrongs that too many young folk choose to ignore.

BTW: vote for the people you know and agree with the best--regardless of party.

That's what this black republican does.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 8:23 AM | Report abuse

So you're punishing the party that was bigoted by supporting the party that is?

Posted by: mack1 | July 8, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Jackson's accusers were in it for the money. If someone molested my kids, I wouldn't drop charges because they paid me. I don't care how much money it was. I'd want them at least in jail and at most dead by bunga bunga (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bunga-bunga)

He was an odd dude and he made some bad choices but I don't believe kiddie touching was one of them.

Posted by: Original_etrod

Totally agree. It not enough money in the world and I will be in jail because you best believe his ass would disappear. They was in it for the money. F Elvis 100 times over. Stole music period.

Posted by: jm220 | July 8, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

The other boyfriend is an idiot. Even if he didnt do it, rapping about being a tough guy and killing someone is Super Smart. And a great way to get the cops all over you.

He said Benjamin Tebow......seriously?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

mack1

"So you're punishing the party that was bigoted by supporting the party that is?"

Please explain how exercising my right to vote is a form of punishment or reward for either party?

Too, the 'trapped' by the historical strengths or weaknesses of both parties is were all Americans are.

That's why you vote for the person whose ideals and plans match what you think is right for the party: regardless of party.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

o_trod

"...Jackson's accusers were in it for the money. If someone molested my kids, I wouldn't drop charges because they paid me. I don't care how much money it was."


Amen.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Both major parties are bigoted against someone. Just have to be smart enough to know who and why. Even the smaller parties have their issues.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

jm, agreed on if someone touches my kids, I'm not involving the po-po, I'm using a blow torch, and some duct tape, and a shovel.

That being said, if MJ was innocent, why did he pay them off?? That flies in the face of all logic of an innocent man doesn't it?? With the money and access to lawyers that he has, why would he take that route, as opposed to fighting it??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Moe, it seems last night's production was a celebration of him as a person, not so much his music. That's what kinda bothered me. Ok, he wanted a peaceful, healthy world. Yet he celebrated the excesses of exploitative capitalism. He built his persona upon that. And his estate is built mainly upon owning the rights to other's work. His own as well, which balloon upon his death, but it's exploitative in it's essence.

And as cynical as you usually are (I'm not complaining, mind you), I was surprised at your position.

Now, you're talkin' the Purple one? His musical and business contributions will continue to influence for ages. James Brown's direct efforts to adjust social policy are legend. He also changed music.

Michael didn't change anything except dance moves. Which I guess can be considered an artistic achievement. Maybe I just put him in that "Showman" category. I don't deny MJ's "King of Pop" claim. I don't see how anyone can. But I don't see his contributions as lasting or beneficial in their final outcome.

All that being said, I don't hold it against folks for mourning his passing. I understand. I just don't agree.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

bean

"That being said, if MJ was innocent, why did he pay them off??"


'Cuz the super rich think sprinkling a little money on a problem tends to make it go away.

The lower income folks hire lawyers, go to court and say, "Prove it!"

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

With the money and access to lawyers that he has, why would he take that route, as opposed to fighting it??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Didnt he fight the last one?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

According to Jason La Canfora of NFL Network, Zorn informed the team recently that players with four years or more in the league don't have to spend the night at training camp in the team dormitories.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 8, 2009 8:33 AM |

This is the first time I can remember Jasno breaking a story about the Redskins (however trivial), and he didn't do it until he stopped being beat reporter. If he'd broken it on RI, it would have had phrases like "Ravens (a much better organization) learned the hard way that this doesn't work," "Snyder bringing pressure on Zorn so that Clinton Portis will be happier," and "they regret having released Leigh Torrence last year after Zorn drove him into the ground in pre-season."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

moe, I don't know, that seems flimsy to me...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

mack1

"So you're punishing the party that was bigoted by supporting the party that is?"

I wouldn't say 'was'. I remember seeing Michael Steele having Oreo cookies thrown at him in '04 while he was running for Senate.

Truth is, both parties do their part in exploiting their constituants for personal gain. Republicans pander to Christians by preaching family values, then running off to Brazil with their soulmates or hitting rest area bathrooms for gay trysts.

Democrats exploit the poor and minorities by promoting class warfare and promising to make the rich pay their 'fair share' while creating giant loopholes to avoid paying their own taxes.

Politicians suck.

I won't say F Elvis, but I definately prefer old, fat, pill popping Elvis whose music was his own rather than young, hansome Elvis who just ripped of Chuck Berry.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

http://deadspin.com/5307893/the-mysterious-keith-norfleet-keeps-popping-up-update

Look at the date on the 2nd image of Jett JAckson's myspace page. 2 days before the murder......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

B he got some really bad advice period. I am glad that Chris Tucker told him with that last kid he better not pay him off.

Posted by: jm220 | July 8, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse


http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/rappers-chilling-lyrics-eerily-similar-mcnairs-murder

No one read how McNairs girlfriends ex, wrote a rap about killing McNair? In a similar fashion to how he died?

Should we discuss how James Brown is referred to as "Rat Brown" within the FBI? Wonder why that is?

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

Shame on Michael for being a capitalist.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Now THAT makes sense, Gator.

I could buy the Boyfriend doing this.

I was thinking about it yesterday, what 20 yr old girl, besides some straight up chonga gangstarina, caps a guy three times from accross the room and then walks over to finish the job. That's a mobster style hit, whether real or imitated.

They still haven't said WHO sold her the gun illegally.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

With the money and access to lawyers that he has, why would he take that route, as opposed to fighting it??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

During the first suit, Jackson was out of the country on tour and his attorneys were handling the case. There wer apparently 2 lead attorneys and they disagreed on how to handle the case. One wanted to settle, the other wanted to fight. The rift began to affect the procedings and the attorney who wanted to fight left the team. The first attorney then convinced Jackson, still out of the country, that settlement was the best course of action.

In short, he settled because of bad advice.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Exploitative Capitalist when aspousing the virtues of a free world. The two are mutually exclusive.

Prince did capitalism right. Own yourself!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

4th, Jett updated it from his cell phone. Mobile uploads don't change the last update time on Myspace. I posted a link for you yesterday at 5:42 pm.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

dikshuttle

"Michael didn't change anything except dance moves."


He also defined and re-created the music-video by representing it as a movie to where now, the video is just as important as the song it's selling.

The "Thriller" video was genius at the time.

He brought dancing back to music: something that the late 70s hate of disco had taken away.

In fact, when you check out a Bollywood film, check out how it usually ends with a Thriller-like group dance routine--"Slumdog Millionaire" does.

The pared-down walking bass-line driven beats and tightly written hooks in "Billie Jean" only were apart of most of the music in the 1980s.

He presented pop-music as dance music during a time when the rock driven 'concept album' was the idustry norm.

Modern r/b male singers are all MJ knock offs--mezzo/soprano, falsetto singing dancers: Usher, Chris Brown for example.

But for the most part, he's dead and in the ground.

And nothing else to say about him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Please explain how exercising my right to vote is a form of punishment or reward for either party?

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:18 AM |

You seemed to suggest it. You wrote (correctly)about the history of the two political parties:

I hate to open a can of worms, but if the young people out there acutally opened up a history book, they'd learn the Democratic Party had its collective foot on the aspirations of black folk in this country a lot longer and to a greater degree than the Republican Party ever did.

And then when you called yourself a black republican I just assumed the above was the reasoning behind your party affiliation. And that struck me as a little, I don't know, insane? Especially coming from someone who comes across as intelligently as you do. But perhaps that's because I live in the south. So my view of the republican party is a little different then that of someone living a few hours north on 95. Down here they do a great impression of the racist democratic party you eloquently described in your post.

Posted by: mack1 | July 8, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Dik, the catalogue was for sale. He didn't swindle anyone. It's no different than buying stocks and bonds in companies built by others. Gimme a SJKn break.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Don't you love how the people who point at Obama and shout, "Socialist!," point at Michael Jackson and shout, "Capitalist!"

For now, Moe will point at himself and shout, "Shut up!"

I'm out for the day.

HTTR!!! (BTW)

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

I won't say F Elvis, but I definately prefer old, fat, pill popping Elvis whose music was his own rather than young, hansome Elvis who just ripped of Chuck Berry.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 10:37 AM

But didn't Chuck Berry rip off Marty McFly?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

The link was dead LH. IT didn't go to what you posted. Please repost......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

For those who have some free time, this is a really good article detailing MJ's 1st lawsuit. It outlines all the characters and what they had to gain from it.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

The stories on this Jet Jackson MySpace page if legit is intriguing.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

How come people are hatin on Elvis? As far as I know he gave credit to whoever wrote any songs he remade…..guy even did his time in the Army. Not like he went after underage kids. Unless they were SMOKIN hot like ‘Cilla…..and I do beleive that they waited until their wedding night after she turned 18…..cough-cough…ahem….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | July 8, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

"The "Thriller" video was genius at the time."

The Thriller video is still genius. I just watched it again last night. Same with Smooth Criminal. And They Don't Really Care About Us.

And I hate MTV. I hate music videos in general. But his were something special.

Posted by: psps23 | July 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

That thriller group dancing stuff is straight up Broadway. Indian films had that before and maybe their celebration of him is inclusory.

And yes, I see MJ as the maturation of Disco. No, I don't hate disco. Love it. (the good stuff). And I don't hate MJ - like it. Beat It is a blast. Great entertainer, no doubt.

But I believe those steps (pun!) were there to be taken by whomever. The music was set up before hand. The medium (music video) was growing just by it's existance. There are no challenging harmonic development or experimentation into new modes with MJ, as with Prince for example. There is excellent useage of the tools of the day but where is he furthering the art?

And imitators of a pop-icon are to be expected. I don't think that makes them great.

I kind of look at it like Solieri vs. Mozart, y'kno? During his time, he's huge... but 400 years from now are they singing Billie Jean? Maybe. Maybe they're singing someone we don't even know...

Again, I'm not debating his influence in culture. I'm debating the quality of his contribution to art. He exemplified banal.

I'm not hating on Micheal, but is the emperor wearing any clothes or just a sequinned glove?

Oh and on this Michael vs. Elvis tip - that was supposed to be settled when he married Lisa. Michael enveloped Elvis.

Alright - I'm done on it. I really just wanted to say Janet looked FOINE last night and that I was creeped out.

I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind. But I hope y'all can at least give me my due for my position even if it doesn't match yours. I certainly can see things from y'all's perspective.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Haze,
I think there were stories of other girls... But he also had a one way mirror looking into several bedrooms, had a history of shooting things (toilets, TV's).

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Sorry. You're right LH....

Police said the comment was made after the murder......

But those rap songs were made months ago....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

the fact that elvis shot his tv, and or toilet to me is just laugh out loud funny.....where's that remote, ah screw it, I'll just shoot it off.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

mistamoe: "Modern r/b male singers are all MJ knock offs--mezzo/soprano, falsetto singing dancers: Usher, Chris Brown for example."

Not that it has anything to do with the Skins or football, but I always saw MJ as pretty derivative of earlier entertainers. He was just really, really good at it.

You can hear a lot of Smoky Robinson but also Frankie Lymon in his early hits. Try Smokey's 'What So Good About Goodbye', or any Sam Cooke number. After MJ's voice began to change, I thought he descended into a collection of snaps, crackles and pops. I wondered if he whispered so much because he was trying to preserve his voice.

To me, as an adult he was sort of like Fred Astaire -- not so much an innovator as a master of what he did.

Now James Brown, that guy was making it up as he went along. Not really a pop musician at all, but very much an innovator.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

More on the Vets getting to sleep at home.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/07/08/a-homestyle-training-camp-commuting-to-camp-perhaps-a-growing-trend/

My thoughts.

I like the idea in general, so long as there are ground rules regarding absences and things like that, need to have a 1 strike your out policy, guy shows up late to practice or misses a day, put his butt in a sleeping bag in the middle of the field. I have said it before and will say it again. If the team wants to keep healthy for the season build an indoor practice facility. Less heat, less cramping, less injuries.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Thx Samson - I think you said what I was trying to, but much better!

Sam Cook... h double hockey stix yeah!

JB=Startime!!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

People just descovered dude's youtube page.... The internet age is hilarious. I see he didn't change his NFL affiliation though the top man ever on the team was banging his girl.....

http://www.youtube.com/user/shadyone8

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

That poor guy is going to get flooded now 4th.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, I am thinking he didn't do it and the cause of death is the simplist of answers. But this dude is making a case for himself to be stupidest criminal to not commit a crime.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

"not so much an innovator as a master of what he did."

I agree.

He was the Michael Jordan of entertainers. He never did anything you hadn't seen before (except, of course, his dance moves, which make no mistake about it, is an art form). But with what he did do, he did it bigger, better, and more powerful than anybody had ever come close to doing it before. And he still carries his weight.

All respect to James Brown, Prince, and Elvis, but they were one-and-done generational musicians. They don't stand the test of time. JB comes closest, but your average pre-teen probably wouldn't be able to pick either him or his songs out of a lineup. If movies didn't have soundtracks or music playing in the background, James Brown would be as rare as Billie Holiday these days.

MJ does stand the test of time. You could put a mix together of "I'll be There" to "Thriller" to "The Way You Make Me Feel" to "You Rock My World", and it would sound as fluent as water. If not for the obvious change in voice, an uninformed neutral observer probably would have trouble matching the songs with the decades they were made. His hits match the "timeless" description that seemingly only the Beatles have achieved.

At least, that's the opinion of one 23 year old.

Posted by: psps23 | July 8, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

4th - that you tube is PRICELESS!!

Here's a demotivational for the topic:

My Hawaii Adventure!

Rok Rok AUN!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"All respect to James Brown, Prince, and Elvis, but they were one-and-done generational musicians. They don't stand the test of time."

PS – from Elvis’ wikipedia page:

“In 1994, the 40th anniversary of Presley's "That's All Right" was recognized with its re-release, which made the charts worldwide, making top three in the UK.
During the 2002 World Cup a Junkie XL remix of his "A Little Less Conversation" (credited as "Elvis Vs JXL") topped the charts in over twenty countries and was included in a compilation of Presley's U.S. and UK number one hits, Elv1s: 30.
In the UK charts (January 2005), three re-issued singles again went to number one ("Jailhouse Rock", "One Night"/"I Got Stung" and "It's Now or Never"). Throughout the year, twenty singles were re-issued—all making top five.
In the same year, Forbes magazine named Presley, for the fifth straight year, the top-earning deceased celebrity, grossing US$45 million for the Presley estate during the preceding year. In mid-2006, top place was taken by Nirvana's Kurt Cobain after the sale of his song catalogue, but Presley reclaimed the top spot in 2007.[285]”
Agree that most younger fans wouldn’t recognize his songs, but it looks to me like he stands the test of time…….he was also inducted into 4 different music Halls of fame….

About 5 years ago I had a younger guy about your age that reported to me that had never even heard of Led Zeppelin.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | July 8, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm wrong. But to me (and I'd be willing to bet to a lot of people at or around my age), Elvis is a "character". I know his voice, if you played his songs, I'd definitely recognize him, but I can't tell you the last time I heard, witnessed, or seen anybody with Elvis on their ipod, itunes library, played at a party, played in their car, apartment, house, dorm room, or spontaneously happened to be listening to him in any situation (in fact, I don't know if I've ever seen that). I see it with the Beatles, and I definitely see it with Michael Jackson, but never with Elvis. But who knows, maybe that's MJ in 30 years.

Just my .02.

Posted by: psps23 | July 8, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

but I can't tell you the last time I heard, witnessed, or seen anybody with Elvis on their ipod, itunes library, played at a party, played in their car, apartment, house, dorm room, or spontaneously happened to be listening to him in any situation

Posted by: psps23 | July 8, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse


I'm guilty on all charges.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 8, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

At the end of the day, I am thinking he didn't do it and the cause of death is the simplist of answers. But this dude is making a case for himself to be stupidest criminal to not commit a crime.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

yeah, this guy isnt the brightest bulb on the tree. People are already leaving comments on his vids. Talk about drawing unwanted attention to ones self. I dont think he did it, but who knows

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | July 8, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

Psps, Elvis was definitely a character and a great source of comedy spoofs indeed, but his music was terrific. “Today’s” generation probably doesn’t actively listen to him because it’s oldies…..same with James Brown, and like you said, Michael Jackson in 30 years…..Idol worship fades over time no matter who it is, but there will always be a scant few who keep the flame burning until they die. Bottom line is, good music is good music whether you are the King of Rock n Roll , or the King of Pop. And there will always be a few radio stations that play their music…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | July 8, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

From SI's Ross Tucker, regarding Orakpo switching positions:

Then there is the exceedingly difficult transition Orakpo is making from a hand-in-the dirt pass-rusher to a linebacker playing off the line, who must key and diagnose what the offense is doing. This is not like making a college defensive end a 3-4 outside linebacker, which takes place with varying degrees of success on an annual basis. Instead Orakpo is playing in a 4-3 defense and will now have to look at the opposition from a different vantage point.

The question is not whether he is a good enough athlete to do it. Orakpo is a physical phenom of the first order. What needs to be answered is if he has the football acumen to make the move. The uncertainty associated with Orakpo's position switch makes the Redskins' first-rounder a project. The fact he will still be an edge rusher on obvious passing downs is good, but what about the other downs? There is nowhere to hide on an NFL field; offensive coordinators will find a way to test Orakpo's skills in coverage early and often this season.

With training camps opening later this month, we'll see soon enough whether or not Orakpo and the two Smiths can make the transition and enjoy prosperous rookie seasons.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

We will see what happens with Orakpo. I would like to see him play LDE/RDE/LOLB/ROLB every game at random. If he can...

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Hey did you guys hear, Michael Jackson died.

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | July 8, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking that Ross Tucker has been reading Brownwood's stuff. I say, you never know until you try it. And if it doesn't work, you stop trying it. I still don't see what there is to lose by asking a guy to step up.

In my mind, there's a lot of upside and not much downside. Tucker and Brownwood can only see the downside.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

"MJ does stand the test of time. You could put a mix together of "I'll be There" to "Thriller" to "The Way You Make Me Feel" to "You Rock My World", and it would sound as fluent as water. If not for the obvious change in voice, an uninformed neutral observer probably would have trouble matching the songs with the decades they were made. His hits match the "timeless" description that seemingly only the Beatles have achieved. posted by psps23"

Oh heck no. Jackson was already concerned about the public forgetting him. He was practically traumatized when some dumb fan poll picked Madonna as artist of the Eighties. We're going to have to wait another 20 or 30 years to see how the music holds up. This is pop music we're talking about, remember. Cultural ADD.

Jackson himself was quoted as talking about unappreciated he was, and how he'd probably remain that way until after his death. He figured his talent would never translate to TV or the movies, because of that personality and, well, the way he looked. And he'd never be a Vegas lounge act like Sinatra or Elvis. Maybe someday Cirque deSoleil will do something for MJ along the lines of the Beatles' 'Love', but face it, his catalogue is smaller than theirs.

Stick around another thirty years and see what happens.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

"I'm thinking that Ross Tucker has been reading Brownwood's stuff. I say, you never know until you try it. And if it doesn't work, you stop trying it...In my mind, there's a lot of upside and not much downside. Tucker and Brownwood can only see the downside.Posted by: talent_evaluator"

What's to lose? Practice time. The all-important 'reps'.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

"but I can't tell you the last time I heard, witnessed, or seen anybody with Elvis on their ipod, itunes library, played at a party, played in their car, apartment, house, dorm room, or spontaneously happened to be listening to him in any situation. Posted by: psps23"

Oh yeah, you must be a kid. Geez, go into any roadside cafe or diner and count the Elvis calendards on the walls. There's one in our town with six, count'em, six. Check out the jukebox in a rural bar sometime. Elvis numbers.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

All respect to James Brown, Prince, and Elvis, but they were one-and-done generational musicians. They don't stand the test of time.

Posted by: psps23 | July 8, 2009 12:33 PM

Maybe you had to be there. Elvis completely transformed popular music. James Brown and Prince didn't. The Beatles were the next to transform it to the degree that Elvis did.

As for "one-and-done generational" I'm trying to think who isn't/wasn't. Can you think of anyone before Elvis? Louis Armstrong? Benny Goodman?

The only "timeless" music is Classical, and in that we remember the composers, not the performers. Maybe with recordings we will remember performers and they will last beyond the audience that saw them live. But, I kind of doubt it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

What's to lose? Practice time. The all-important 'reps'.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:19 PM |

He's getting reps at both positions. It's not like they're asking to play tight end.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

I agree, wait 30 years and see.

John Lennon has now been dead almost 30, and his stuff with the Beatles along with much of his individual stuff still holds up, find me one political rally that does not sing "Give Peace a Chance" or a "Imagine".

Elvis is still considered to be the King of Rock and Roll (where jacko got his nickname from.)

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"He's getting reps at both positions. It's not like they're asking to play tight end.
Posted by: talent_evaluator"

Well, Ross Tucker explained it better than I could. But my arithmetic says reps at two positions is half the number of reps at one position.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

James Brown and Prince are terrific musicians, but far from icons. Elvis is an icon. Sinatra is an icon. So are the Beatles. Maybe MJ will be, but it's too early to tell.

What makes an icon? Don't ask me. Why are John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart iconic movie stars, instead of Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster, who were probably better actors? Why is Andy Warhol an icon instead of two hundred fifty better contemporaries? I dunno.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

PFT reporting that the Redskins will try Orakpo out at tight end...

WOW...te....thats pretty amazing....how did you know???

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

For the record I would say that Jim Stewart and Wayne are excellent actors on par with Kirk Douglas and Lancaster.

But that is a deep deep question Samson, what makes a Icon. How does one transcend themselves, their form of art into something greater. For the record I would say Warhol is not an icon, a great many people would not be able to pick him out of a line up, especially this new lame generation, but his art is.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Well, Ross Tucker explained it better than I could. But my arithmetic says reps at two positions is half the number of reps at one position.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 2:33 PM |

Here's what Ross Tucker wrote: "The question is not whether he is a good enough athlete to do it. Orakpo is a physical phenom of the first order. What needs to be answered is if he has the football acumen to make the move."

Now how else do you find out whether he has the football acumen other than lining him up and letting him play? And if he can't do it, then you stop playing him at that position.

And the downside is that he only has "half the reps" at a position that he's played all his life? Seriously, what's the downside to this?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Report: Kazemi Fired The Gun
Posted by Mike Florio on July 8, 2009 2:31 PM
The folks at Joe Buck's favorite web site are reporting that "preliminary test results" reveal that Sahel "Jenny" Kazemi fired the gun that killed former Titans and Ravens quarterback Steve McNair, and then herself.

Dr. Feng Li, an assistant Tennessee medical examiner who conducted the autopsies, made the conclusion based on various factors, including an analysis of gun shot residue.

Nashville police are expected to release new evidence at a 3:45 p.m. EDT press conference. Check back then for more information.

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Maybe you had to be there. Elvis completely transformed popular music. James Brown and Prince didn't. The Beatles were the next to transform it to the degree that Elvis did...

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:23 PM

If you mean he helped rhythm & blues music and hip swiveling cross over and gain acceptance by a wider audience, you sir are correct.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

WOW...te....thats pretty amazing....how did you know???

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 2:44 PM |

It seems like everytime the Redskins make a HUGE mistake like this -- one that threatens the future of the franchise -- PFT is all over it. I think Jasno has been feeding them this stuff. After he reads it in the Washington Times.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Jimmy Stewart was in movies that span generations. Ofcourse, I can only speak for Mr. Smith goes to Washington and It's a Wonderful Life.......

I've never watched John Wayne movies, but my father-in-law can watch them all day. I assume it has to do with the Wil Wild West and Men being Men without feeling guilty about it.....

Charlten Heston had some Fabolous roles as well. I can watch Ben Hur all day long....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Is ANYONE looking at other possibilities?

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 6, 2009 3:31 PM

Just you and FRAK.

Posted by: learnedhand1

Yep, whats up with her ex-boyfriend , Norcom or whatever it is, the cops almost immediately came to a conclusion of the investigation and seemed to try to shelve it, the serial killer that got killed in a gunfight in SC had a rap sheet 25 pages long, 25 PAGES LONG, and was out on the streets, I have no doubt that criminal elements of the gov't use jails and psych wards to harbor assassins, seen it first hand, release them secretly out the backdoor, provide them with hookers, drugs and tasties as rewards for their efforts.. autopsies, autopsies, proof...Don't date any girls named "Sahel"..."Say, Hell!! You got any Hell over there??"..arrrgh...

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

If you mean he helped rhythm & blues music and hip swiveling cross over and gain acceptance by a wider audience, you sir are correct.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 2:49 PM |

That was a big part, but not all of it. He was good with ballads, gospel, and with hillbilly music. He is the only artist who has been inducted into the hall of fame in four music genres.

There were a lot of guys trying the same thing at the same time, but Elvis succeeded beyond the others.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Right, Prince isn't an icon. Got it.

James Brown, Godfather of Soul, not an icon. check.

I gotta get my iconographer checked...

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking that Ross Tucker has been reading Brownwood's stuff. I say, you never know until you try it. And if it doesn't work, you stop trying it. I still don't see what there is to lose by asking a guy to step up.

In my mind, there's a lot of upside and not much downside. Tucker and Brownwood can only see the downside.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

I'm with T_E on this one. If Orakpo's rookie year is about nothing more than finding out where he'll be most effective, it'll have been good use of time.

He reminds me of Andre Carter, who was a better LB than DE. Both Carter and Orakpo are fast and similar in size. Both have limited rush moves and get blocked in the run game. Both keep themselves in great shape. Both are smart.

Orakpo's best asset is speed, which is a bigger asset for an LB than a DE.

If you watch his video highlights, you'll see that he is a speed rusher ... and that can be done from the LB spot. You'll also see in the few running plays, that the T and in one case, the TE, move him around pretty well. He'll be harder to block in the open field

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

"He reminds me of Andre Carter, who was a better LB than DE"

Not sure I agree with this....when they did this very thing in SF with AC, it wasn't successful...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Don't date any girls named "Sahel"..."Say, Hell!! You got any Hell over there??"..arrrgh...

Posted by: frak

In my case, I don't date anyone starting with the letter 'J'.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

heyaaa - I'm going to see the soccer tonight. Any recommendations on getting to RFK in the evening?

THNAKS!!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

Carter was a better LB than DE. The reason he left SF was because he wanted to be a DE. The SF staff wouldn't let him play DE because they knew he was a better fit at LB. Ironically, hIs best sack year came as an LB.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Dik, subway (orange or blue line) to Stadium-Armory.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Since this here blog needs an occasional jolt of bad taste above and beyond MistaMoeFo's regular contributions, allow me to weigh in with a post of my own. Tonight comedian Jay Leno joke recalled:
"Q: What do Kmart and Michael Jackson have in common? A: Boys shorts half off."

Posted by: FrancoBegbie | July 8, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

4th Floor here's a flick that both you and your father-in-law can watch together, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence. It has both Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne in it, and its a western. Excellent, excellent film, plus it has a scene where Jimmy Stewart punches John Wayne in the face knocking him to his a$$.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

lmao@Franco

Actually, they found out he died from food poisoning..!

....(wait for it..)

....

..
.

HE ATE A 5 YEAR OLD WEINER!!

[:-|

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

& Thanks Learned!

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 8, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Any recommendations on getting to RFK in the evening?

THNAKS!!

Posted by: DikShuttle

Yea, go with your wife or your buddies, not some 20 year old named Sahel.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

why don't we just play a 2-5 defense along with a 3-3-5 cobra?

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Samson51 there is no time tell, MJ is definitely an Icon, even before he died. The people you named pales in comparison. MJ is/was probably the most famous and recognizable person on the planet.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Police Press Conference starts in 1 minute, carried live on Tennessean.com. (By far the best source for McNair updates)

This case is straight up gripping...you can't make this stuff up.

Posted by: McMetal | July 8, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

"Samson51 there is no time tell, MJ is definitely an Icon, even before he died. The people you named pales in comparison. MJ is/was probably the most famous and recognizable person on the planet.Posted by: clark202"

I think he is definitely that, for the past few days, at least. But prior to that, more recognizable than his old rival Madonna? More celebrated than Obama? More beloved than Ali? More famous than Elvis?

I don't think so.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

MJ may be the most recognizable person on the planet but thats because of his unique look he had.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

"If you watch his video highlights, you'll see that he is a speed rusher ... and that can be done from the LB spot. You'll also see in the few running plays, that the T and in one case, the TE, move him around pretty well. He'll be harder to block in the open fieldPosted by: zcezcest1"

I see Tucker's point. At RDE your speed is going forward, and your focus is on pushing your way past a blocker. At SAM, it's at protecting an area from the run and the (short) pass. You're fighting off a TE, you're moving up in run support... very different speed.

I suspect the reason they want to try him at SAM is because they're having trouble getting him on the field otherwise. Not that can't be a real good rusher from that side, but it will require some scheming.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

If people can post their corny, tasteless, and classless jokes about someone dying, then am I good when I post a profane, but edited post?

Not a whole lot going on lately 'round here except a few dudes trying to get some laughs by posting inane post. If that's somebody's idea of trying to "keep a conversation going" because there isn't too much football related going on, I sure as hell would hate to read the comments this season after a loss.

I'm proud of all y'all. In the words in Puff Daddy: "Keep banging"

When does training camp start?

Posted by: RedDMV | July 8, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWEvbjFF8s&feature=player_embedded

Real Ish! All fathers can relate here.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Way more famous than Elvis, there isn't a continent on this planet that doesn't know who MJ is, do you think The Gambias in Africa know who Elvis is? No they don't not even the grandparents out there know who Elvis was. You think anyone in Yugoslavia, Israel, or Madagascar is blasting Elvis? MJ was more popular abroad then he was here the last decade. If Madonna died, CNN, BBC, Al Jazera, Japan Network, wouldn't devote some three hours towards her funeral. It will be like Madonna died last week, here's some footage from the funeral. There isn't a musician, sports figure, or politician, that can match Jackson's popularity. I mean this isn't rock science.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator

"...Elvis completely transformed popular music. James Brown and Prince didn't."

Sorry.

Beg to differ.

The roots of old school hip hop, 70s funk, and disco are rooted in the work of James Brown.

Did you ever bob your head to, "It Takes To to Make A thing Go Right"?

That's James Brown via Lynn Collins.

Do you like the funk in The Average White Band?

Thank the work of James Brown and the JBs.

Next time you hear and old school Public Enemy, Run-DMC, Big Daddy Kane, MC Lyte, et al, track, you'll probably notice the James Brown track that's been sampled to create it.

Brown just wasn't a guy up front singing.

He also wrote, arranged, and produced songs that are funkier than grandma's drawers.

(And there's the bad taste for you.)

In fact, before he died, Brown said he made more oney from his songs being sampled by Hip Hop djs than when they were hit records.

Elvis?: if you take away the racial situation that allowed him to use Louis Jourdan's dance styles and cherry picked, unheard of by white audiences blues tunes for hits, he's nothing but a derivative artist, plain and simple.

If Elvis had been exposed to a music environment where race wasn't an issue, "Hound Dog" and "Jailhouse Rock" would've been hits already heard and played by the folks who wrote them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

francobegbie

"...an occasional jolt of bad taste above and beyond MistaMoeFo's regular contributions..."


Sir, the '...little boy's pants half off...' joke is like ten year's old.

That lil boy is a grown man now, and his jeans are sagging low, 'cuz he wants them to.

Ya gotta update the bad taste for it to be effective.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe, this dude said it the best on the BET Awards....

"If Mike Jackson was never around, then Justin Timberlake would be selling Hot Dogs in the Valley. And I am being serious when I say this....."

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe I have to agree with you. I believe JB fused R&B into pop, funk, and rock thus paving the way for the bands in the 70's and 80's which includes paving the way for the likes of Sly and Family Stone, Funkadelic/Parlament, Rare Earth, Grand Funk, LTD, Prince, etc.

Elvis like him or not, didn't appeal to everyone, for the most part when you look at the footage from his concerts you pretty much see one demographic represented. With MJ you got the whole gambit. I will also say that MJ's first hit single was in 1969 his last was in December of 2008 with Akon.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I see Tucker's point. At RDE your speed is going forward, and your focus is on pushing your way past a blocker. At SAM, it's at protecting an area from the run and the (short) pass. You're fighting off a TE, you're moving up in run support... very different speed.

I suspect the reason they want to try him at SAM is because they're having trouble getting him on the field otherwise. Not that can't be a real good rusher from that side, but it will require some scheming.
Posted by: Samson151

watch the youtube highlight video on Orakpo and look at the running plays. He gets pushed around a good bit. On the pass plays, he's all about speed rush -- and really nothing else.

Judging from that very limited sample, teams could run right at him and move him out with little problem. Put him in space, and I suspect he's quick enough to avoid blockers. Which says LB, not DE.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

I now wish Mike Jackson had never been around.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

WOW! Lots of juicy stuff from the McNair press conference:

Police are 100% convinced of the murder-suicide scenario - not a shred of evidence indicating otherwise.

She reportedly told friends and co-workers in the last few days that her life was a mess and she was thinking of ending it all.

He was more than likely shot in his sleep, sitting on the couch. First shot to the temple from afar, 2 more to the chest, and the final to the other temple, close range. She then sat down on the couch next to him and shot herself, dying instantly.

BIGGEST REVEAL - She was reportedly distraught over the fact that he was apparently seeing ANOTHER mistress, whom she had observed leaving the condo and actually followed. The identity of this woman is not known but she is not considered a suspect or person of interest.

Just crazy...TWO mistresses? When did this guy find time for his kids and all that charity work? Cripes!

And capping him while asleep? That is COLD blooded.

Posted by: McMetal | July 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Elvis?: if you take away the racial situation that allowed him to use Louis Jourdan's dance styles and cherry picked, unheard of by white audiences blues tunes for hits, he's nothing but a derivative artist, plain and simple.

If Elvis had been exposed to a music environment where race wasn't an issue, "Hound Dog" and "Jailhouse Rock" would've been hits already heard and played by the folks who wrote them.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 3:59 PM |

Agree. Elvis was a performer not a creator. He performed other peoples' music. But, you can't rewrite history to take away "the racial situation." It was there, and Elvis helped to change it. A lot of others were trying the same thing at the same time, but Elvis was the King.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

once in the temple, twice in the chest, once in the other temple....that is whats called a woman scorned.....wow...must not have been much left of that head when she was done....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

I am not a big Elvis fan but, Elvis's career was mostly pre-segregation era, so that's why you "see one demographic represented". His career also span about 25 years, admittedly he died younger. But Mike Jackson's career was dead for a long time now too, at least a decade.

With no Elvis, there probably would be no Michael Jackson.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

OK, "Jenny" "Sahel" did it..But frankly, after 9-11, anything the gov't says can't be trusted..Can we get a second and third opinion and investigations, like Jesus said??

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

No. I believe the banning of hand guns is the answer.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 7, 2009 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, that's the answer. Just look how well it's worked for drugs.

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 7, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Mexican drug smugglers actually come to the United States to get guns that they smuggle back into their country. They bring the drugs in, and take the guns out. If the US restricts hand guns, don't you think it would have an impact on the drug trade? I think our neighbors in Mexico would be thankful if the US stepped up to plate. Anyway, you can't compare illegal drugs to illegal hand guns. No one ever suffered from a gun addiction where they just had to have a Smith & Wesson fix...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | July 8, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Elvis?: if you take away the racial situation that allowed him to use Louis Jourdan's dance styles and cherry picked, unheard of by white audiences blues tunes for hits, he's nothing but a derivative artist, plain and simple.
If Elvis had been exposed to a music environment where race wasn't an issue, "Hound Dog" and "Jailhouse Rock" would've been hits already heard and played by the folks who wrote them.
Posted by: MistaMoe | July 8, 2009 3:59 PM |

I agree that MJ was probably the most recognizable figure on the planet and am not at all arguing his impacts to music. Elvis was admittedly not a songwriter, but the songs he did “re-make” sounded nothing like the originals. He didn’t try to hide this. He also had many hits that he didn’t write, but was the first to record. You sound like you are saying that the guy had no talent whatsoever and just happened to strike it rich by taking advantage of the social inequities, and that is not the case…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | July 8, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Andre Carter was a failed experiment as an OLB and that is why he left SF. He had 3 years with bigger sack #'s than the last year that he played OLB where he only had 4.5 sacks.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | July 8, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

So, I guess she did go out in what Alex and JM220 was talkin about. I forgot the name of it. (Honor Killing?). McNair choose the wrong one to F around with. And I am surprisd her so-called friends let he go through this....

McMetal - The wife only has 2 of his kids. The oldest is a senior in HS and is about to play NCAA Football. He goes to the high school that Brett Favre practices at in Mississippi.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

rskinhead, banning hand guns wont happen...ever....plus, ban hand guns, and then shots become the weapon of choice...ban them, then its onto rifles....then bow and arrow...then knives.....where does it end...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 8, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Please post something new. Come on wp!

Posted by: brian58 | July 8, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

With no Elvis, there probably would be no Michael Jackson.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 4:27 PM

Say what!!! And I guess without Elvis there would probably have been no Motown either?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | July 8, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

alex35332 wrote:
His career also span about 25 years, admittedly he died younger. But Mike Jackson's career was dead for a long time now too, at least a decade.

With no Elvis, there probably would be no Michael Jackson.

======================================
OK, first let me say first MJ career spanned almost 40 years, his first hit was 1969 with his last being in 2008. His career granted in this country wasn't like it was in 80's but he was still huge, and a megastar abroad, The man sold out 50 dates in minutes in England's O2 stadium - Thing about that.

Secondly if Elvis were never or didn't make it, there still would have been MJ, because MJ got his inspiration from Little Richard, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke, Nina Simone, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. Elvis had little to do with his career.

And I'm a huge Elvis fan, but the two don't compare, Elvis didn't create a "culture" he was arguably the most popular in his genre no doubt, be he didn't transcend generations to the magnitude of Jackson. My parents grew up being MJ fans, I grew up being MJ fans, and niece and nephew 21 & 20 respectively grew up MJ fans.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 4:42 PM | Report abuse

With no Elvis, there probably would be no Michael Jackson.

Posted by: alex35332 | July 8, 2009 4:27 PM

Say what!!! And I guess without Elvis there would probably have been no Motown either?

Posted by: learnedhand1

Without Elvis, there is no Kim Jung Il, no Kate Gosselin, no Phoenix Coyotes and Neil Armstrong never walks on the moon, either.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | July 8, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

"OK, first let me say first MJ career spanned almost 40 years, his first hit was 1969 with his last being in 2008. His career granted in this country wasn't like it was in 80's but he was still huge, and a megastar abroad, The man sold out 50 dates in minutes in England's O2 stadium - Thing about that.Secondly if Elvis were never or didn't make it, there still would have been MJ, because MJ got his inspiration from Little Richard, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Sam Cooke, Nina Simone, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. Elvis had little to do with his career.
And I'm a huge Elvis fan, but the two don't compare, Elvis didn't create a "culture" he was arguably the most popular in his genre no doubt, be he didn't transcend generations to the magnitude of Jackson. My parents grew up being MJ fans, I grew up being MJ fans, and niece and nephew 21 & 20 respectively grew up MJ fans.Posted by: clark202"

Wow. I feel like I've encountered someone from Mars. There are multiple generations of Elvis fans. Same for Sinatra. You don't know any of these people?

MJ's an enormously popular performer, but there's a big chunk of the world where he makes not a ripple, but they see Elvis' face in a tortilla.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

reskinhead: "No one ever suffered from a gun addiction where they just had to have a Smith & Wesson fix..."

Oh yeah? Check out a couple gun shows and you'll change your tune... but they can stop anytime they want. They just don't want to, see?

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

"McMetal - The wife only has 2 of his kids. The oldest is a senior in HS and is about to play NCAA Football. He goes to the high school that Brett Favre practices at in Mississippi....."

?
Yep, I got that. That's not what they were talking about though. There was ANOTHER "OTHER" woman in this scenario that very likely contributed to her fragile state of mind. This was completely new information.

I just don't see the point in keeping up the pretense of a marriage under those circumstances...why even bother?

Posted by: McMetal | July 8, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Nvrmind...just realized you were probably talking about the time thing, not the woman thing. Mixed signals on my part!

Even 2 kids is still a huge demand on your time though, if you're any kind of a father at all...

Posted by: McMetal | July 8, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Wow. I feel like I've encountered someone from Mars. There are multiple generations of Elvis fans. Same for Sinatra. You don't know any of these people?

MJ's an enormously popular performer, but there's a big chunk of the world where he makes not a ripple, but they see Elvis' face in a tortilla.

Posted by: Samson151

=============================================
Well then sir you must be the Martian, the only country where people have "Elvis sitings" are in this country. And its usually one part of the country. While true there are generations of folks who like Elvis, the majority of his fan base are older, from this country and there aren't too many people age 18 or younger buying Elvis music. I'm a music fanatic so yes I buy Elvis stuff, but I'm not the typical music buyer.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

I know of Elvis fans because my mother is one. But it pretty much stops there......

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 8, 2009 5:18 PM | Report abuse

"Elvis?: if you take away the racial situation that allowed him to use Louis Jourdan's dance styles and cherry picked, unheard of by white audiences blues tunes for hits, he's nothing but a derivative artist, plain and simple. If Elvis had been exposed to a music environment where race wasn't an issue, "Hound Dog" and "Jailhouse Rock" would've been hits already heard and played by the folks who wrote them."

Well, those two celebrated blues musicians, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, wrote Hound Dog and Jailhouse Rock, right? from their office in the Brill Building. Also 'Stand By Me', 'On Broadway', a whole bunch of Coasters classics including Yakety Yak, Charlie Brown, and Searchin'; "I Who Have Nothing' and 'Spanish Harlem' for Ben E. King, and 'Love Potion #9'.

Stoller and his wife were on the Andrea Doria when it sank. They returned to New York to discover Hound Dog was a hit. Stoller's question: "Who's Elvis Presley?"

I dunno, these guys were just good songwriters. Big Mama Thornton had a hit with Hound Dog in 1953, and Elvis' version was just better.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

It's like rock and roll, which had sort of stalled when the English reinvented it. Who'd have thought a bunch of guys from Liverpool and London would out-rock the Yanks? That's the thing with music -- it's everybody's.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

I dunno, these guys were just good songwriters. Big Mama Thornton had a hit with Hound Dog in 1953, and Elvis' version was just better.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:23 PM
============================================
That's a matter of opinion, although I liked Elvis' version as well. To me in my opinion, the performance that personified Elvis was Jail House Rock, the scene from the film was the precursor to the music video.

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Actually, my moms worked at Motown right before the Jacksons signed, in PR, and she said Gordy didn't want to sign them because he didn't want "another kid's act"..Fortunately for LA Gordy, he changed his mind..

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Elvis was the filter for a lot of the beautiful black music that was emerging across the US to white kids- yes, he ripped them off , and had the old entrenched bigotry, but he also served as a catalyst for change in the white youth of America during the oppressive, repressive, segregated 50's and 60's...Saying Elvis was greater or MJ or James Brown is greater is apples, oranges, and bananas..

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

What a crazy week for celebrity deaths.

I remember liking Michael Jackson as a kid, but as I got older i sort of got over it. Cant deny the talent though. Guy is world wide...not sure Elvis was.

Posted by: CheyenneWY | July 8, 2009 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Actually, my moms worked at Motown right before the Jacksons signed, in PR, and she said Gordy didn't want to sign them because he didn't want "another kid's act"..Fortunately for LA Gordy, he changed his mind..

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 5:30 PM
========================================
Yes Gordy, was always squeamish about child acts, Stevie Wonder required a tutor, could only work specific hours, and he also worried about the voice changing. Although Stevie's voice improved with his voice change. Frak, I would like to talk to you man, I'm writing a biopic about Motown from 1959-1970.,

Posted by: clark202 | July 8, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

"That's a matter of opinion, although I liked Elvis' version as well. To me in my opinion, the performance that personified Elvis was Jail House Rock, the scene from the film was the precursor to the music video.Posted by: clark202"

To each his own. My point being that thsoe two prototypical R&B tunes were written by two Jewish guys in Tin Pan Alley.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

clark202:
Good luck on your research but for kinda tough personal reasons, I'll have to forego the meeting...But, peace and best wishes..

Posted by: frak | July 8, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Anyway, here's a link to some great instrumental music that anybody should like. Check out the bass - horn duet in the middle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXHOyqHzupk

Posted by: Samson151 | July 8, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Quick note:

Stop comparing Orakpo to Carter. Carter played OLB in a 3-4...VERY different from playing OLB in a 4-3. If the Skins ran a 3-4 and switched Orakpo to LB I'd have absolutely no problem. But if you run a 4-3 and take a 263 pound DE and move him to LB, I have a BIG problem with that when DE is by far your biggest position of need on defense.

And yes, Tucker's argument is almost verbatim my argument against the move. To answer T_E's "what's the downside" remark, the downside is that you are putting yourself in a position to not have a full-time answer at EITHER of your two biggest holes on defense (SLB and LDE) by moving a rookie around and not allowing him to grasp as much as possible at the spot you need him most. Focus the attention on getting Orakpo ready to be your starter at DE on opening day. Easy solution to your biggest hole. Instead they're unnecessarily complicating a very simple task.

Hope I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 8, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

To answer T_E's "what's the downside" remark, the downside is that you are putting yourself in a position to not have a full-time answer at EITHER of your two biggest holes on defense (SLB and LDE) by moving a rookie around and not allowing him to grasp as much as possible at the spot you need him most.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 8, 2009 7:27 PM |

No, that's not the downside. If he doesn't work in the hybrid role, then you have a full time DE.

This team has real problems, but trying out Orakpo in a new position isn't one of them.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: talent_evaluator | July 8, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

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