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Over/Under on Skins' Wins: 8?

Those fine folks at Vegas Watch have looked at the major sportsbooks, crunched the numbers, consulted the Magic 8 ball and put the over/under on Redskins' victories this fall at eight.

That's not much of a change from a year ago when, with a rookie head coach in Jim Zorn and what appeared to be a brutal season-opening slate, the Skins' figure was 7.5.

Has Vegas Watch erred in placing the Skins pretty much in the middle of the pack again?

By Cindy Boren  |  May 21, 2009; 8:06 AM ET
 
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Comments

8 is optomistic.

Posted by: Original_etrod | May 21, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Consistantly average!

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | May 21, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

they'll be lucky to get their uniforms on correctly, forget about playing football....JC will be throwing int after int, and the excuses will be that his helmet is on backwards and he can't see. Tell me what that has to do with completing a pass...???

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

I'll take the over, based purely on defense. But, they won't make the playoffs.

Posted by: rgb131 | May 21, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Can the Post get that photo of Ed Williams off of there?

Posted by: skinfanman | May 21, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

Take the over. 8's a good number. Classic season for us, we'll lose the games we need to win, and win games we have no business winning.

Posted by: mattdemasi | May 21, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Until they prove they can do more than stay about medium there's no reason to expect the Redskins hype to be anything other than lukewarm to possibly tepid at best.

Posted by: will_ga | May 21, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Vegas Watch? Really? Perhaps you need more work at the Post! You don't want to be mistaken for the Washington Times.

Posted by: katiebabe461 | May 21, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

8-8....?

Again...?

More than likely.

Too many things have to go right for 11-5, and to have them occur, the o-line issues were the first to be addressed and weren't.

You have to hope against logic that Campbell and his wideouts 'get it' and become some what of a threat.

But as Spock himself will tell you, logic, being what it is, can't ever be denied.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 8:53 AM | Report abuse

This team has tremendous up-side.

This team has catastrophic down-side.

ergo - 8 wins. I take even, just like vegas.

And then say buhbye to Zorn & Soup.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

6-10 is more likely. CP will get stuffed/injured behind a mediocre Oline and JC will have no one to throw to as Moss will not stay healthy and last year's WRs are not that much better at keeping out of the trainers room.

Our D will get worn down by the end of the 4th quarter and we will lead the league in opponents coming from behind to win.

10-6 if CP and Thomas or Kelly play 16 games and we have no Oline on IR.

Posted by: oldnova | May 21, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Final post on Vick:

Vick is far from a lousy QB. He's actually one of the most underrated QBs I've seen play the game. Traditional? No. But a winner? Absolutely. He's one of maybe 4 QBs in the past decade that can win a game by himself (Manning, Brady, and McNabb in his younger days being the other 3).

Atlanta's defense was never good under Vick's tenure. Only once did they ever place in the top half of the league, and they ranked 14th that year. He led the league's leading rushing attack for multiple years with Warrick Dunn (while solid, has never been a dominant running back) and, wait for it, TJ Duckett as his one-two punch. His best receiver was Peerless Price. His only target was Alge Crumpler who, suprise, surprise, fell off the face of the earth once Vick left. Vick had to carry that team on his back, or legs, to whatever success they achieved (only once under Vick did they have a losing record, and that was a 7-9 season). He had a career 57% winning percentage. The year he was hurt for the majority (2003), his team went 2-10. When he got back, the team went 3-1. Doug Johnson's career record under Atlanta (at the time of Vick) was 3-10. Matt Schaub's career record in Atlanta was 0-2. The year he left Atlanta, they went 4-12 (Leftwich, Harrington, Redman). Vick wins. If he had any sort of talent surrounding him in Atlanta, that team would have been one of the scariest teams to grace a football field in that time.

It's unknown what he can do after such a lengthy layoff, but if he's anywhere near what he was a couple years ago, and goes to a talented team with a defense to back him up (like, say, Minnesota) watch out. (But in fairness, I don't expect him to be what he was. Such a shame that a talent like that was wasted.)

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

beantown

'...the bloom might be off the jays rose...'

The death of the blue jays was foretold some posts ago.

If you take Doc Halladay's wins away, the jays are holding up the bottom of the AL East.

The Yanks are getting their groove on and the Sawx will be on cruise control all summer.

The Sawx need a bat before Papi and will pull the trigger and add someone after the All Star game.

Wang will return to form, Hughes will go into the bullpen, and the Yanks will peak some time in August when the Sawx come to NY and first place is on the line.

Bet on it!!!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

4-12

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"Vick is far from a lousy QB. He's actually one of the most underrated QBs I've seen play the game. Traditional? No. But a winner? Absolutely. He's one of maybe 4 QBs in the past decade that can win a game by himself (Manning, Brady, and McNabb in his younger days being the other 3)."

I was a big Vick fan, but he's been overrated vastly.

Close to 52% completion, mid-70's QB rating, only led the team to one NFC championship game, which they lost.

Hell, I guess Redskins fans who think Jason Campbell is a great QB would also label Mike Vick a "winner". What in the world has he won?

And this coming from a guy who was a big Vick fan. Dude can't throw a ball. Don't mistake exciting highlights for being a winner.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

moe, pedrioa bats before papi, and Bay behind him, so really all they need is for papi to get out of his funk....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

8-8 Last year with a new head coach I would normally be inclined to say that the second year will net you a win or two, with this offense im not so sure. Howeva ALBERT HANYNSEWORTH does add you a game or two to the win total. Call you favorite vegas host and take the over kids.

Posted by: Stu27 | May 21, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse

I think we're 10-6 if the line holds up all year. If it falters a little, 8-8. If it falls apart, 6-10. So, 8 wins is a good average.

We could be really good if all those old knees pull out a miracle and hold together for 16 games. It's possible, but I doubt it.

I know this much: All Superbowl winners have one thing in common: their team stayed healthy throughout the season. And that's just luck.

Posted by: lordtwang | May 21, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Too many things have to go wrong for this team to finish 8-8 again. Samuels AND RThomas would have to get hurt significantly again, or Portis AND Betts would have to get hurt (to eliminate the running game). Haynesworth (like Jason Taylor), Hall (like Shawn Springs), and Orakpo (like Marcus Washington) would have to get hurt. Those things would have to happen just to set the basis, then the more likely injuries would also have to occur; Moss becoming hobbled, Daniels becoming hobbled, DThomas becoming hobbled, Kelly becoming hobbled, Fred Davis becoming mentally hobbled. Campbell would have to stay exactly the same caliber in the second year of his system, and Zorn would have to stay exactly the same in his second year as a coach, gameplanner, and playcaller.

If all that occurs during the season, this team will finish 8-8, even with a weaker schedule than last season.

If not, then this team has a great shot at producing more.

So, I'll take the over.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Over.

What is Delaware's line? Maybe they have better action over there......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Papi will never get out of his funk.

He's become the guy the Twins let go of again.

The Sawx will add a bat.

Just who is the question.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Here is a more thourough story:

Vegas: Redskins are average

By Ryan O'Halloran on May 20, 2009 into Redskins 360

Vegas Watch has weighed in on over-under wins for each NFL team and they project no change for the Redskins: a .500 record and a last-place finish in the NFC East. And they think the Redskins are more likely to win fewer than eight rather than more than eight games.

Leading the way in the division are the Giants (10), followed by Philadelphia (9.5), Dallas (9) and the Redskins (8).

The projection has the NFC East's combined over-under as a league-high 9.13 wins. The worst are the AFC West and NFC West (7.13).

The surprises: Arizona (8.5 – obviously not a lot of respect for the defending NFC champs), Baltimore (8.5 – obviously not a lot of respect for the AFC runner-ups), Detroit (5 – remember, the Lions went 0-16 last year) and Tennessee (9 – a steep decline from last year).

New England is first (11.5 wins), followed by Pittsburgh (10.5), Indianapolis (10) and the Giants (10).

The AFC's top four teams average 10.4 and the NFC's top four 9.4.

- Ryan O'Halloran

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Here's a question. In the Land of Redskins, we are very used to disappointment.

Will this year's defense disappoint? Everyone takes for granted that we'll have a better D. How many games did Springs play last year? 8? 10? I honestly can't remember. I know that early in the season he shut down some of the best WR's in the game. I still wish we could've kept Springs around at a little cheaper price...didn't everybody in the NFL get some money added to their cap?

Man, if we had a Springs that could play minimum 10 games, Carlos Rogers, and DHall as our top 3 corners, sick.

But I expect the team D to finish top 5 easily, and that is why I'm worried they might disappoint. We're all assuming Fat Albert plays very good if not extraordinary. What if he sucks it up? Ouch!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

moe, he took one out last night and another off the wall, he's coming out of it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Looking at the schedule, they have 5 games they HAVE TO win. ( vs. Rams, @ Lions, vs. Bucs, vs. Chiefs, @ Raiders) but we know they will find a way to blow one of them so 4-1 in those games. I'll be generous and give them 2-4 in the division.
They aren't winning @ ATL or @CAR.
Can they take 2 of 3 from DEN, NO, and @SD??
So I say 7 wins max. UNDER

Posted by: kdaciek | May 21, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

This website never fails to underachieve. For a supposed "insider" site, it's content is severely lacking. Every day I come to this site looking for a small tidbit on my Skins, and all too often I am disappointed. Perhaps JLC and Reid are on summer break -- maybe that would explain why they've offered nothing on this site for the past two weeks other than a couple of trite, meaningless polls. I refuse to believe that this is the best these guys can do. The Washington Post should offer the most extensive coverage of the 'Skins but sorely lacks the breadth of content to support such a claim. We expect more because we have a right to, and the status quo is unacceptable. Get off of your a**es guys, and give us some real coverage of our hometown squad. There should be fresh, substantive coverage of the Skins almost every single day. Not cheesy polls, and assorted other updates from around the league -- we already have ESPN for that. In the case that there isn't something new to report, COVER THE TEAM! Pick a player and profile him, pick a position and tell us who is battling for it and how they are doing in training camp, track a day in the life of one of our new draft picks -- in my mind, there are only two explanations for the glaring inadequacy of content on the "insider" site: laziness or incompetence. Either way, much improvement is needed.

Posted by: spyder7 | May 21, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

11-5 if they stay healthy. 9-7 if not. Still will have improvement.

Posted by: birdytom | May 21, 2009 9:19 AM | Report abuse

"Posted by: spyder7 | May 21, 2009 9:18 AM "

if you're really looking for a better place to get info and not just insulting the writers here as everyone seems to do

I'd recommend ExtremeSkins.com message board. Lots of posters there that go to any and every open event, post pictures and post info on who has looked good. Maybe a little homerism, but overall seems to be pretty good. They also got some guys that actually have inside connections to the Park and have confirmed or deny some trade rumors in the past that have come out to be true.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

"Vick is far from a lousy QB. He's actually one of the most underrated QBs I've seen play the game. Traditional? No. But a winner? Absolutely. He's one of maybe 4 QBs in the past decade that can win a game by himself (Manning, Brady, and McNabb in his younger days being the other 3)."

I was a big Vick fan, but he's been overrated vastly.

Close to 52% completion, mid-70's QB rating, only led the team to one NFC championship game, which they lost.

Hell, I guess Redskins fans who think Jason Campbell is a great QB would also label Mike Vick a "winner". What in the world has he won?

And this coming from a guy who was a big Vick fan. Dude can't throw a ball. Don't mistake exciting highlights for being a winner.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:05 AM | Report abuse


Have to agree with Truth on this one.

If you watch the games where teams schemed to take away Vick's option to pull the ball down and run, the Falcons became an incredibly mediocre team. That's what the Eagles did in that NFC Championship game, and it's why he had trouble beating the Bucs - they were such a fast defense that closed in on him.

The guy had a laser for an arm, but he couldn't really read defenses or get the ball to his WRs to save his life. People act like he didn't have a receiver corps to work with, but maybe the problem was the guy throwing the ball.

He was always the fastest guy on the field, and he could steal a bunch of games by scrambling, but there was always something gimmicky about the way they won.

Posted by: p1funk | May 21, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

moe, he took one out last night and another off the wall, he's coming out of it.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:15 AM | Report abuse

He started on the Juice again.

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 21, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"Hell, I guess Redskins fans who think Jason Campbell is a great QB would also label Mike Vick a "winner"."

Nah, it's only the naive football fans that think QBs win in vacuums that would label Vick anything other than a winner (on the football field), just like it's only naive football fans that think QBs play in vacuums that think Campbell isn't a good QB.

During his tenure, when he was injured, his replacements had a .200 winning percentage. The immediate season following his departure (when the roster was largely the same) the team's winning percentage was .250. Vick's winning percentage was .576.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

whatever it takes....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

52% Completion = WR Dropping too many balls

The only reliable receiver he EVER had was Crumpler. Roddy White and the crew were big busts.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

"During his tenure, when he was injured, his replacements had a .200 winning percentage. The immediate season following his departure (when the roster was largely the same) the team's winning percentage was .250. Vick's winning percentage was .576.

Posted by: psps23"

Again, what in the world did he win to label him a winner?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

This is the nightmare scenario:

'...CP will get stuffed/injured behind a mediocre Oline and JC will have no one to throw to as Moss will not stay healthy and last year's WRs are not that much better...'


Somehow, it all comes back to offensive line play.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

"I'd recommend ExtremeSkins.com message board."

the truth11

Of course you would....and they get inside information b/c they are owned by the team.....duh...

LOL@the Truth....constantly....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 21, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"If you watch the games where teams schemed to take away Vick's option to pull the ball down and run, the Falcons became an incredibly mediocre team. That's what the Eagles did in that NFC Championship game, and it's why he had trouble beating the Bucs - they were such a fast defense that closed in on him."

And if you watched the teams that schemed to take away the Colts' precise routes, the way the Pats did for years and the Chargers still do, THEY looked like an incredibly mediocre team. Only for Vick, like the Colts of earlier this decade, he had no other help (like from his defense) to occasionally bail him out.

Unfortunately, Vick lost himself the opportunity to continue growing as a QB. It's a shame, because he truly was something special.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

beantown


It get it that Papi hit a shot last night.

But I still think the Sawx will look for another bat to stack their lineup.

Nick Johnson would be a good fit as he's a Sawx type player-- cheap, good defender, club house guy, great hitter...

...and ex-Yankee.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Isn't a gimmicky scrambler what you WANT for WCO?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

"Again, what in the world did he win to label him a winner?

Posted by: TheTruth11"

57% of his games on a team that was just talented enough to win 23% of their games without him.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

truth: "Close to 52% completion, mid-70's QB rating, only led the team to one NFC championship game, which they lost."

QB ratings aren't designed to accommodate a QB who can run for a thousand yards in a season, or 8+ yards a carry.

He IS too short to see over the line if he stays in the pocket. So you have to design your scheme to take advantage of what he does well.

But there's nobody like him. Or at least there wasn't, before...

Posted by: Samson151 | May 21, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

moe, I'd pass on Nick. Its most likely going to be a sellers market in baseball, so I'm not sure that they sox will jump in for a bat. They have a cat down in trip-AAA they could bring up. Then they could give Ortiz a break, move youk to third, and put Lars Anderson at first, and have Lowell DH. I can't see them giving up their top prospects unless they're coming back with Pujols.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

It get it that Papi hit a shot last night.

But I still think the Sawx will look for another bat to stack their lineup.

Nick Johnson would be a good fit as he's a Sawx type player-- cheap, good defender, club house guy, great hitter...

...and ex-Yankee.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

For some pitching, probably even relief guys this could be a realistic deal, if it breaks the right way, opps sorry nicky.

Posted by: Stu27 | May 21, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

As a QB Vick had to be the most overrated player. He was never that good. The Eagles found the way to beat him. He always rolled right. They lined up a fast line backer to spy on him and just ate him alive. Plus, he just isnt an accurate QB.

he is like Reggie Bush in a way, more about a perceived image of his play than what he actually produces. All flash and no substance. A perfect fit for Mr. Snyder

Posted by: gatorskinz2000 | May 21, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

"52% Completion = WR Dropping too many balls

The only reliable receiver he EVER had was Crumpler. Roddy White and the crew were big busts.....

Posted by: 4thFloor "

Yes, I know...I live down around here and I've heard the "dropped balls" excuses many, many, many times before.

Yes, the NFL wide receivers can't catch a ball. I understand that his WR's dropped some balls, I watched a lot of their games.

But TO led the league in dropped balls, what, 2 years in a row? And I don't have the stats and may be wrong, but I would be willing to bet there was another QB who's WR's had more dropped balls in any given year, yet the QB had a higher % completion rating.

I like Vick and understand he was probably the most exciting player in football when he was playing, but he wasn't a great QB and most definitely wasn't "a winner".

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Ron Burgundy: It's quite pungent.
Brian Fantana: Oh yeah.
Ron Burgundy: It's a formidable scent... It stings the nostrils. In a good way.
Brian Fantana: Yep.
Ron Burgundy: Brian, I'm gonna be honest with you, that smells like pure gasoline.
Brian Fantana: They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Again, what in the world did he win to label him a winner?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:36 AM

How many regular season games did he single handlely win?

He was the 1st and ONLY QB to win at GB when the temperature was below 32 degrees farenfeit. He took his team to a NFC Championship game with no help.

Did you not forget that Mora was trying to get himself fired as well? And from Mora's comments on ESPN the other day, he never really believed in him. If you don't have a coach who believes in you, you can only go so far....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Vick was the only visting QB to win @ GB in freezing temps UNTIL the Giants won there.

But still, they were like 30-0 in frozen temps all time before vick ran all over them one snowy night in January........

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

1). Lousy offensive line
2). no depth
3). QB thrown under the bus
4). Zorn in over his head
5). NFC East

6-10

Posted by: ayala1 | May 21, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

If you don't have a coach who believes in you, you can only go so far....Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

...or an Owner... lol

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I don't care if its queer, Kara Dioguardi was hot last night.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 21, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

"Did you not forget that Mora was trying to get himself fired as well? And from Mora's comments on ESPN the other day, he never really believed in him. If you don't have a coach who believes in you, you can only go so far....

Posted by: 4thFloor "

You mean to tell me Mora didn't believe in Vick. Is this the same Mora that has stayed in contact with Vick the whole time he has been in jail and the same Mora who rumor has it is interested in getting Vick to Seattle?

Again, I like Vick, but he wasn't a great QB like yall are building him up to be. Very good NFL player? Sure. But not at the QB positionl.

Not to mention the NFC SUCKED when he got to the NFC Championship game and went to those Pro Bowls. Seriously, it SUCKED.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

"yet the QB had a higher % completion rating.

Posted by: TheTruth11"

Ya just don't get it, do ya Scott? Ya don't...

His 54% completion does not = 54% completion from a guy like Jeff George.

As Samson said: "QB ratings aren't designed to accommodate a QB who can run for a thousand yards in a season, or 8+ yards a carry."

As gatorskinz said "he is like Reggie Bush in a way." It's just like the people that look at Reggie Bush's rushing numbers and consider him a bust at the same time they discount the fact that he's broken records as a receiver out of the backfield, turned into one of the top 2 most dangerous return men in the league, and that he has led the league in all-purpose yards (when he was healthy).

Some guys are just football players. Once you understand that, things become a lot more clear.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

To the Truth...

You still believe in ESP of N? Eh, all they do is manufacture news all day long dude. Read this and you make the call...

Don’t Look For Vick To Go To Seattle
Posted by Mike Florio on May 20, 2009, 8:09 p.m.
We aren’t looking for reasons to pick on ESPN’s John Clayton regarding the teams that he thinks Mike Vick could end up joining. But we can’t keep our mouths shut regarding our disagreement with his assessments.

Clayton’s list includes the Seahawks, given that former Falcons coach Jim Mora is now the head coach there.

Setting aside for now the fact that Mora’s dad once had to apologize for calling Vick a “coach killer,” the younger Mora’s words from Tuesday night’s SportsCenter special tell us everything we need to know.

“I don’t know that everybody sees him as a quarterback,” Mora said in a pre-taped segment. “I spent three years with the guy, and the most consistent question I got was, ‘Does he have the skill set of an NFL quarterback or is he better suited to play another position?’”

Said ESPN’s Ed Werder in response, “But you always stated your belief that he was a quarterback, and could succeed at the position.”

Replied Mora, followed by a slight ish-eating grin: “Because he was my quarterback.”

And so the common belief is that Vick won’t be permitted to play quarterback on a full-time basis if/when he’s reinstated. And so if Vick decides he wants to play quarterback only, he might have to go to the UFL (as Clark Judge of CBSSports.com points out) in order to show the NFL that he can still play the position he was playing when he entered the league as the first overall pick in the draft.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Kara Dioguardi

Who is this??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

"And so the common belief is that Vick won’t be permitted to play quarterback on a full-time basis if/when he’s reinstated.

Posted by: 4thFloor"

To me, the question with Vick will be about money. I think some team will be willing to take him at a small salary and experiment with him at QB for a year or two, hoping for a positive outcome.

But the CFL may be willing to pay more. And if that happens, I can definitely see Vick's debt making his choice for him (plus, I think the CFL would be more accepting of his ethical problems, simply by being distanced from it more so than we have here).

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Greg - she has something to do with some American Idle thing...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | May 21, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

“I don’t know that everybody sees him (Vick) as a quarterback,” Mora said in a pre-taped segment.

Said ESPN’s Ed Werder in response, “But you always stated your belief that he was a quarterback, and could succeed at the position.”

Replied Mora, followed by a slight ish-eating grin: “Because he was my quarterback.”

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.......

Nothing like the sweet, sweet honesty of cynicism.

Mora completed the cynical, selfish move by moving to Seattle where he waited out M Holgrem's eventual demise to take a job he'd done nothing for to get--other than be Jim Mora's son.

This whole episode reads like Brutus telling Caesar, "Dude, I had to stick my knife in your back."

"I needed you to die so I could keep my job---that's what friends are for."

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

was she the one who came out with the new cans, in the bikini??

kudo's to her plastic surgeon.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

hell if I know

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | May 21, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

after a little research, kara is the judge....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Bean - no, the one with big cans was an chick who tried out a while back who they were pretty much making fun of.

Kara is a judge, she came out and sang over the top of her (much better singer), and she looked pretty hot in a bikini too.

Yeah yeah, I know... but my GF had it on and I had to watch.

Not that theres anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 21, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

ryp, yeah, my wife was making me flip back to it during slow times in the sox game.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Is this another one of those "purely philosophical" questions? Like how does my heart remember to beat or whether I'd be comfortable with Michael Vick on the Skins?

OK, then, purely philosophically, I'm saying 14-2. First loss is to the Rams lead by the most amazing receiver ever in the NFL, the Torrence-defying Donnie Avery. The other one is to Tampa Bay, the Skins covert long time evil nemesis (i.e., Cowboys vs. Indians is pure Hollywood ... Native Americans vs. Pirates was the first and most enduring historically American rivalry ... or maybe that was Native Americans vs. European disease vectors ...)

Posted by: dcsween | May 21, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

"As gatorskinz said "he is like Reggie Bush in a way." It's just like the people that look at Reggie Bush's rushing numbers and consider him a bust at the same time they discount the fact that he's broken records as a receiver out of the backfield, turned into one of the top 2 most dangerous return men in the league, and that he has led the league in all-purpose yards (when he was healthy).

Some guys are just football players. Once you understand that, things become a lot more clear.

Posted by: psps23 "

You just don't get it, do you?

I already said, Vick is not a great QB, a great football player, maybe.

So WTF are we even arguing about? I've already said that....you, on the other hand, kept saying he was a great QB, while I said he wasn't a great QB, possibly a great football player.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

bean

'...Lars Anderson at first...'

Bring in a kid from the Sea Dogs during a race for the division against the Evil Empie?

I dunno.

The Nats will want to dump Johnson's salary.

I bet the 1st base hungry Mets go after him.

But, hey, I got other players the Sawx could use: Nick Swisher, Hideki Matsui or Jorge Posada.

Good defenders, clubhouse guys, streaky hitters, all can play multiple positions, but are extra parts on the Yankees team as it is presently composed....

Do ya think Theo and Cashman will sit down and do business and make a intra-division trade benefical to both teams?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....Hell No!

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Hey, idol is ok in high def w/ the 47"! (I know, what isn't?

The band musicians are excellent even if [most of] the music is crapola.

And the hottie factor is undeniable.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

New cans in the bikini...new cans in the bikini...hmmmmm....

OMG! I've got it. This is so obvious and simple it's no wonder Danny hasn't figured it out. Stop worrying about traditional beefy 300-lb block-of-granite-type O line players. What we need are some scantily clad babes in a 3-point stance. I'm telling you, WRs would be running around catching passes like orcas on penquins (couldn't resist painful metaphore involving penguins) while the defense is trying to get phone numbers and make post-game arrangements. 8 & 8 my patootie. We're talking wire to wire, 16-0 baby!

Posted by: InRealAmerica | May 21, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"I already said, Vick is not a great QB, a great football player, maybe.

Posted by: TheTruth11"

Fine Truth. He wasn't a great quarterback. He was just a great football player that happened to play only the quarterback position his entire career, and he played it better than a vast majority of the other quarterbacks in the league during his tenure.

Of course, some would say that, by definition of the transitive property, that makes him a great QB (count me in that group).

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Real, we already got in trouble w/ the league for that one... ?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Serious question:

What happens on American Idol and Dancing With the Stars?

Seriously, y'all.

I can't say I've ever watched either of these shows as a game or dvd is always second when it comes to entertainment.

The 1st is counting my money behind MrsMoe's crafty back.

She hears the crackle of new money and alerts like a raptor headed for a feeding binge.

(INSERT image of panicked dinosaur sprinting twoards what might be food)

But I digress.

The good people at DirecTV have made sure all I'm exposed to is anything showing dudes playing a sport.

And if I want to see good-looking women in performance inother activities, well, they have channels for that, too.

I'm serious.

I don't know the difference between Idle Americans or Dancing With the Has-Beens: to me, it's all about what has become the easiet thing to acquire in the world today: celebrity.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

There's no question that the skins, if healthy, will be better this year. But the draft was deep and we didn't have a lot of picks, so everyone else got better too. I do think we go 9-7 and eek into the playoffs, but there is a definite possibility that we won't. Have to be excited to see what the defense can do though. We got a lot of talent on that side of the ball. I change my number to 11-5 if Carlos Rogers learns how to catch.

Posted by: MikeB13 | May 21, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Yes, I know...I live down around here and I've heard the "dropped balls" excuses many, many, many times before.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:47 AM

It's okay for a WR to have dropped two balls but there is no excuse for anything more than that, don't you think?

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

And if you watched the teams that schemed to take away the Colts' precise routes, the way the Pats did for years and the Chargers still do, THEY looked like an incredibly mediocre team. Only for Vick, like the Colts of earlier this decade, he had no other help (like from his defense) to occasionally bail him out.

Unfortunately, Vick lost himself the opportunity to continue growing as a QB. It's a shame, because he truly was something special.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse


Seriously, it's not even a comparison. The Colts were consistently a perennial contender in the NFL - and yes, the only way the Pats managed to stop them was to hold the receivers. The Colts were perennial contenders b/c they had a complete offense - WRs, TEs, and running game hitting on all cylinders.

After that one run to the NFC Championship game, what happened to Vick's Falcons?

When your bread and butter on offense is basically a QB sneak, you become a one-dimensional team that quickly turns mediocre when that dimension is successfully taken away.

Your attempt to compare it to the Colts offense is ignorant and laughable.

Posted by: p1funk | May 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Vick was not a great QB, he was a great athlete playing the QB position. HUGE difference, not my fault if you don't understand that.

Vick made the Pro Bowl in 2002 over :

Donovan McNabb, PHI 12-4
Kerry Collins, NYG 10-6
Shane Matthews, WAS 10-6
Chad Hutchinson, DAL 7-9

Brett Favre, GB 12-4
Daunte Culpepper MIN 6-10
Jim Miller, CHI 4-12
Joey Harrington, DET 3-13

Brad Johnson, TB 12-4
Micheal Vick, ATL 9-6-1
Aaron Brooks, NO 9-7
Rodney Peete, CAR 7-9

Jeff Garcia, SF 10-6
Matt Hassleback, SEA 7-9
Marc Bulger, STL 7-9
Jake Plummer, ARI 5-11


and he was selected behind Brett Favre, Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, and McNabb.


The guys he got in over is one of the least impressive lists of QB's I think I've ever seen in my life.

NFC was watered down back then, JC right now would've been a top 4 or 5 QB in the conference back then.


and is this where we just ignore the stats and numbers? You said he was a 'winner', but he never won anything of importance.

And we hear about the dropped passes, but :

http://sports.myway.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html

take a look at last year's WR's with the most dropped passes. If you don't take a look at that link, I'll give the top 5 for the AFC & NFC :

AFC
Braylon Edwards
Dwayne Bowe
Brandon Marshall
Lavernius Coles
Mercedes Lewis

NFC
Terrell Owens
Calvin Johnson
Roddy White
Fourth place is tied between Santana Moss, Greg Jennings, Marques Colston, and Muhsin Mohammad.

Now obviously Vick didn't have WR's of that caliber, but how come whenever a QB underperforms, we always hear about his lack of WR's. Great QB's turn okay/good WR's into great WR's. You put Vick on Arizona last year and I don't think they get as far as they did.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

Fine Truth. He wasn't a great quarterback. He was just a great football player that happened to play only the quarterback position his entire career, and he played it better than a vast majority of the other quarterbacks in the league during his tenure.

Of course, some would say that, by definition of the transitive property, that makes him a great QB (count me in that group).

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse


Vick is a great ATHLETE. He is an insane ATHLETE; a freakin' mutant of an athlete in the Allen Iverson/Randy Moss mold.

He was a mediocre to average QB. What made him an asset was his ability to take off with the ball - pure and simple.

Someone compared him to Reggie Bush, and I think that is valid. If Vick was casted in a position like Reggie Bush (RB/WR/return man), he would have been a monster.

Posted by: p1funk | May 21, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I agree with the very first responder; 8 is optomistic. The entire offense is about to collapse from age, accumulated injuries, woefully poor draft choices in the receiver area and the fact Campbell is not the brightest bulb on the tree - plus now he is alienated.
Don't sign any long term leases coach Zorn - Danny Boy the dunce will be after another big name coach before the season is half way done.

Posted by: pd2710 | May 21, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Truth

Vick made the Pro Bowl in 2002 because he was also selling jerseys and was a human highlight reel.

The serious people noticed the Falcons kept bringing in new guys to teach him the WCO and even Steve Young couldn't get through to him.

Mike Vick was nothing but the Billy "White Shoes" Johnson of quarterbacks.

No more, no less.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

pd2710

Jason Campbell isn't the brighest bulb in the box?

The guy has learned, what, six complex offenses in 7 years, but hey, he's dumber than guys who learn one his whole career.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Vegas wow oh boy their are always right not .

Come people are we strong Redskins fan or mice who hide at the thought of the fact that we are merly weeks away from training camp .Or are we Redskins fans to the end who are loooking forward to the upcoming year.

I hope we are the ladder

Posted by: joevick | May 21, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

He was a mediocre to average QB. What made him an asset was his ability to take off with the ball - pure and simple.

Posted by: p1funk | May 21, 2009 11:44 AM

He do "play action" real good. Not have to stand in pocket and look over 6'5" DL like Michael Strahan.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Le Gas Ana:

A
A A
A A A
A A A A
A A A A A

(magic triangle)

!0-6, 11-5, depending on the Dungeon Master..

Posted by: frak | May 21, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Moe, if you are like me, all you need to do is watch The Soup on E! to find the best parts of Idol and Dance w/Stars.....funny sjk!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 21, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Santana was on their because of all those high throws from JC17 in which Santana barely got his 'hands' on cuz they were so high and he is so short......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 21, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"Your attempt to compare it to the Colts offense is ignorant and laughable.

Posted by: p1funk"

Um, no, I didn't compare the Colts offense to the Falcons offense. I compared the ability of a defense (NE, SD - TB, PHI) to scheme for the primary means of attack. When ANY defense does that, and there isn't another means (not just on offense) for you to respond, you will never look above mediocre. The Colts exemplified this early on. And Atlanta, as a team, had NOTHING besides Michael Vick. They followed the model. And as I said, it was a shame that he was cut short, because they had the opportunity to grow into much more.

"He was a mediocre to average QB. What made him an asset was his ability to take off with the ball - pure and simple."

And that made turned him from a 'mediocre to average' QB into a great QB. I think what you meant to say is that he is a mediocre to average passer. That I won't argue. But QB is nothing more than a position on the field. How you produce there is irrelevant. What matters is what you produce.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Boy you'd think this was a f--king Cowboys website.

Listen, I know that Snyder and Cerrato have driven a lot of the faith from Redskins Nation, but I think we are all falling victim to the Anti-Bandwagon.

It is easy to bash Cerrato and Snyder, Campbell and an increasingly injury prone Portis. Sure we can listen to how the Skins jsut don't match up to the other three teams in the East, but the fact remains that we are better than the Eagles and the Cowgirls.

Sure we need production from Devin and Malcolm and some diamonds along the O-line, but...newsflash...every team has problems.

2 years in the same system + Haynesworth + Production from ONE second year receiver + Orakpo = 10 and 6

Posted by: Angelonourshoulders | May 21, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

He wasn't a great quarterback. He was just a great football player that happened to play only the quarterback position his entire career, and he played it better than a vast majority of the other quarterbacks in the league during his tenure.

Of course, some would say that, by definition of the transitive property, that makes him a great QB (count me in that group).

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 11:13 AM

C'mon Psps23...you're better than this. Nobody is debating that Vick is a superior athlete. That would be stupid. But I've seen him play the Bucs at his peak and they shut him down consistently because they kept him in the pocket and made him prove the could beat them with his arm. He couldn't. And any team with the speed and personnel to keep Vick in the pocket and play zone will make him look bad all day.

Despite having one of the strongest arms in the league, he's not accurate. He doesn't read defenses well. And I wouldn't put his decision making (on field) among the upper half of QBs in the league. Can he change a game? Yes. Is he exciting and explosive? Yes. But the minute his speed goes (and there's no telling if it hasn't already since he hasn't played in 2 years), he's worthless.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 21, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't know a lot about the gambling, but the Vegas lines (like Skins over/under 8 wins in '09) represent a sweet spot which elicits the most money from bettors while protecting the bettees to some extent (or whatevs)... or something like that... right? So at this point they're looking for action. I guess I'm wondering how much action you (as a sports book or whatever) could really expect for odds like this. Sometimes I think it's just gratuitous oddsmaking for oddsmaking's sake. Or something.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | May 21, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

As for the Skins record in 2009: how about we see what the offseason holds before making such sweeping declarations? Maybe let training camp start? See who stays healthy, any new acquisitions, etc? That said, I've got them slated for 8-8 every year until they prove otherwise.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 21, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The Colts were consistently a perennial contender in the NFL - and yes, the only way the Pats managed to stop them was to hold the receivers.

Posted by: p1funk | May 21, 2009 11:33 AM

You get penalized if you hold a receiver. However, taping the other team's pre-game walk through will stop them and then the Commish will destroy the incriminating evidence.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I can see Washington at 9-7 this season. I think the wheels are about to fall off the bus for the Cowboys and beating Dallas both times will be the difference. The defense will keep Washington in most games and I can even see them scoring a few points this year on interceptions. The offense will be infuriatingly ineffective - like last year - and the Skins will lose some close ones because of it.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 21, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

brownwood26: "But I've seen him play the Bucs at his peak and they shut him down consistently because they kept him in the pocket and made him prove the could beat them with his arm. He couldn't. And any team with the speed and personnel to keep Vick in the pocket and play zone will make him look bad all day."

That's exactly true. Same thing happened to Randall Cunningham.

But suppose you designed the offense to make that more difficult -- such as a variation on the spread that's so popular in college today.

And suppose Vick wasn't killed by marauding tacklers...

Michael Vick in a pro set is like making him play with one hand tied behind his back.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 21, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Here is my prediction. By the end of the training camp our old OLiners will be injured and the new ones not good.
The young receivers will be injured/not improved.
Half way through the season Moss and Portis will be hurt and play at 70%.
Our record: 6-10.

Posted by: thor2 | May 21, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I meant by the end of the preseason.

Posted by: thor2 | May 21, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

angel: "2 years in the same system + Haynesworth + Production from ONE second year receiver + Orakpo = 10 and 6."

The thing is, teams aren't the sum of their parts. Most of the time, they're either more or less.

Two years ago, the Giants demonstrated that in the Super Bowl, beating the strongest squad in many years. And last season, Arizona -- a team many gave up for dead near the end of the regular schedule -- almost beat a superior Pittsburgh club.

Ultimately it's not about the talent on the Skins' O-line -- it's about how well they play together. Same for the defense. Albert and Orakpo make them more talented. But will they be better?

The Skins were close last season, but no cigar. We know they'll spring a leak somewhere this year, but we can't predict where. Most of the folks here would say it's the offensive line, but really, it could be anywhere.

And how will they react to that? Will they become worse, or better?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 21, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

4-12

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 21, 2009 9:02 AM

Not a chance.

Posted by: 4-12 | May 21, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I think I could be a Redskin Insider. Throw out a lame topic and say "discuss". Brilliant!!!!

New thread:

"Raljon". Good idea or ill-concieved, vain attempt to "honor" your children. Discuss....

Posted by: therearenonamesleft | May 21, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

In most divisions we'd have a reasonable chance of going 9-7 or 10-6 IF the cobbled O-line holds together.

BUT Philadelphia > NYG > Dallas > US = 8-8 is pretty much our best case.

Posted by: mac2j | May 21, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

This Team is easily 10-6. In fact 10-6 would be underachieving.

The Redskins should be the surprise Team in the East because everybody is picking everybody else to be better. Dallas, Philly, and the Giants are all picked to be better than the Redskins.

I Beg To Differ. And I also predict that Tony Kornheiser will bring out the Bandwagon this year.

Ya' heard it from LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | May 21, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Two things to consider regarding wins. Did we get better and is our schedule tougher or easier?

Overall, I think we improved very marginally. To get above about 9 wins, we'll need
1. Better than average luck with injuries
2. One or more of the OL wildcards to come thru
3. Orakpo to be among the better rookies

On defense, Orakpo is the wild card. If he plays like a rookie, then the defense is not much better than last season. If he plays like Patrick Willis did as a rookie, then the defense could take this team a long way.

On offense, it depends on whether the questionable parts turn into solid players. Specifically at RT and WR.

We remain very susceptible to injuries at CB and across the OL. Injuries to either Fletcher or Santana would be devastating.

On the schedule, we play teams with an aggregate .500 record -- so it sounds middle of the road. Thing is, we play 4 teams with miserable records (Oak, KC, Det, StL) -- and no one else that finished under .500. We can compete with most of the better teams and will win 4-5 games (out of 12) against that group. We'll likely go 3-1 or 4-0 vs the weaker group.

Which takes us to around 8 wins.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 21, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Nate,

In Cuba they bet on the lottery numbers - not playing the lottery, but some weird derivative based on what the numbers end up being.

I was looking for the article but no luck...

Yes, odds making for odds making's sake.

People will gamble on anything!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

The cynic in me says, "Hey, we have all our picks. Let's go 3-13 and have high picks in all rounds."

"Then, flip some of the picks so we wind up with extra second round picks in the future, that's what Lord Vader Belichek does."

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

19 and 0
Chaaaampionship!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 21, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

In 2010, they go 8-8. They start hot but their offensive line predictably falls apart and they curl up in the fetal position and wait for the offseason. The offense average 9.6 points per game, setting an NFL record for front office stupidity.

In 2011, they (too late!) use their first and second round draft picks on offensive linemen, and -- with GREAT hype -- sign the best free agent quarterback. But with a new QB, new OL, and new coach, they go 8-8.

In 2012, their linebacking corps is decimated. 31-year-olds Clinton Portis and Albert Haynesworth break down -- but both remain on the team (and cap) for the next three years. 33-year-old Santana Moss breaks down too. They go 8-8.

In 2013, in their 15th straight rebuilding year and the 15th year of Danny Snyder's miserable rule, the Skins go 8-8. But the Skins hold a celebration trumpeting Danny's 15 years of ownership: only 4 more wins and he'll be .500!

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | May 21, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

lmao, diesel!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

If Zorn and Campbell can lead us to the playoffs this year, then 2010 is our serious push year.

If theres no cap, we'll be able to dump a lot of fat.

We also have a full draft (minus 6th), so we should be able to mostly rebuild the line, along with a FA signing.

Posted by: Rypien11 | May 21, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

"And any team with the speed and personnel to keep Vick in the pocket and play zone will make him look bad all day.

Posted by: brownwood26"

This was true. Question then becomes, how many teams in the league had the personnel to do that?

Not many. Players with the athleticism and smarts of Derrick Brooks don't come around very often. And I have still yet to see any QB solve every defense he will ever face. Even the immortal Tom Brady looked like a Redskins QB when the Giants put him to the test.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

Would anyone on hear be willing to give up a 3rd or a 4th round pick to acquire Joshua Cribbs from the cleveland browns? he has requested to be traded.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 21, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

8 sounds about right as it sits for the Skins. As much as some people want to have faith in him, and he has said all the right things, the Skins still have one major question that cant be glossed over. They still have no idea if Jason Campbell will be better or not. Forget the offensive line, forget the receivers stepping up. Campbell to this point has been statistically sound yet productively lacking. Sure he doesnt commit turn overs, but he also didnt score many points and cant carry the team in a pinch if needed. That 8 wins number is based off of the defense and running game right now. If Campbell can step up to be above average ( cause right now he is just average) the Skins could actually do something this year.

Posted by: sharksgrin | May 21, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

this is the safe line for Vegas oddsmakers. this team could just as easily go 10-6 as 6-10. we have the potential, with our defense, to be a contender. but there are obviously question marks. will Heyer or Jansen step up at RT? Can the rest of our elderly statemen on the line (i.e., Samuels, Thomas) stay healthy? Will Thomas and/or Kelly step up? Will JC take the next step (largely predicated upon the answers to the previous two)? If things break right for us in these areas, we can absolutely make a run in the playoffs. If the line falters and the young WR's don't develop, we will be an average club, despite a very good-to-great defense.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 21, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Not sure if anyone read this on USA today’s football page…….The new Cowboys stadium is going to have 4 Hi Def tvs for the fans and players to see. The 2 big ones are 160 wide and 72 high……and that’s in feet. In terms of the field, the TV length essentially runs from the 25 yd line to the 25 yd line. The “small” ones facing the end zones are 51 feet wide by 29 high. Nobody’s going to be looking at the field……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 21, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Not sure if anyone read this on USA today’s football page…….The new Cowboys stadium is going to have 4 Hi Def tvs for the fans and players to see. The 2 big ones are 160 wide and 72 high……and that’s in feet. In terms of the field, the TV length essentially runs from the 25 yd line to the 25 yd line. The “small” ones facing the end zones are 51 feet wide by 29 high. Nobody’s going to be looking at the field……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 21, 2009 2:10 PM | Report abuse

They still have no idea if Jason Campbell will be better or not. Forget the offensive line, forget the receivers stepping up. Campbell to this point has been statistically sound yet productively lacking. Sure he doesnt commit turn overs, but he also didnt score many points and cant carry the team in a pinch if needed. That 8 wins number is based off of the defense and running game right now. If Campbell can step up to be above average ( cause right now he is just average) the Skins could actually do something this year.

Posted by: sharksgrin

Think you are underestimating Campbell. He did well in close games in the 4th quarter. He played 4 games vs the league's top 3 defenses. 6 games vs the top 5 and 8 games vs the top 8.

Take out the Steelers and Ravens games (where Campbell was poor, but the OL was a disaster) and Campbell's QB rating is top 10.

Having a QB who can succeed when the players around him are doing their jobs isn't a given. I don't need to recite the long list of Skins QBs who couldn't.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 21, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

"Wow. Not sure if anyone read this on USA today’s football page…….The new Cowboys stadium is going to have 4 Hi Def tvs for the fans and players to see. The 2 big ones are 160 wide and 72 high……and that’s in feet. In terms of the field, the TV length essentially runs from the 25 yd line to the 25 yd line. The “small” ones facing the end zones are 51 feet wide by 29 high. Nobody’s going to be looking at the field……"

Posted by: dlhaze1

Hate to say it but the new Cowboys Stadium is gonna be incredible. My in laws moved to Dallas 3 years ago and Ive been able to go to the last 3 games there. A Brunell-Bledsoe stinker on Sunday night, a great game that we should have won when Campbell got picked off by Newman at the end, and last years SWEET victory when I talked chit to Cowboys fans from the stadium, across the bridge, and to that dirty parking lot.

My father-in-law didnt renew his season tics this year do to the price jack and the fact that he didnt go to that many games anyway. But Im still hoping to be able to get down there for this year's game in the new stadium. Timing kind of sucks this year being a week before Thanksgiving though.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 21, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

VaTerp - are you also married to a CowPatties fan?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

ALBERT HANYNSEWORTH does add you a game or two to the win total. Call you favorite vegas host and take the over kids.

Posted by: Stu27 | May 21, 2009

Both Haynesworth and Hall have a history of not playing as often as not. Kind of like everyone's complaints about Springs?

Assume 10-11 games with both in and yes, 8-8 looks optimistic.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

There is almost no doubt that Campbell will be a lot better this year. I think everyone can bank on that. If he is healthy. I suspect that even if he is hurt Colt will pick up the slack.

It won't be quarterback play or lack thereof.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Vick was a mediocre QB at best, but would have been a good RB. NFL.com stats

2001 - (No passing stats) Rushing 289, 1TD, 1 FUM.

2002 - 18th in the league 54.9 passing percentage, 16 TD/8 INT, 81.6 passer rating. Rushing 777, 8TD, 5 FUM.

2003 - (no passing stats). Rushing 255, 1 TD, 1 FUM

2004 - Tied for 20th (Tim Rattay) 56.4 passing percentage, 14 TD/12 INT, 78.1 passer rating. Rushing 902, 3TD, 3 FUM

2005 - 25th in the league 55.3 passing percentage, 15 TD/13 INT, 73.1 passer rating. Rushing 597, 6TD, 5 FUM

2006 - 20th in the league 52.6 passing percentage, 20 TD/13 INT, 75.7 passer rating. Rushing 1,039, 2TD, 4 FUM

Compare with another running QB, Steve Young.

1993 - 1st in the league 68.0 passing percentage, 29 TD/ 16 INT, 101.5 passer rating. Rushing 407, 1TD, 2 FUM.

1992 - 1st in the league 66.7 passing percentage, 25 TD/ 7 INT, 107.0 passer rating. Rushing 537, 6 TD, 6 FUM.

1991 - 1st in the league 64.5 passing percentage, 17 TD/ 8 INT, 101.8 passer rating. Rushing 415, 1 TD, 0 FUM.

In other words, yes Vick can run, but is overrated as a QB.

In response to the 8-8 question...I say 8-8 is if we are lucky. Offense has no chance and will be reliant on the D to bail them out.

Posted by: Hail2TheSquire | May 21, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

On defense, Orakpo is the wild card. If he plays like a rookie, then the defense is not much better than last season. If he plays like Patrick Willis did as a rookie, then the defense could take this team a long way.

Willis? Try Terrel Suggs. This defense, like the Ravens, is going to have to learn to score points. The real wildcard was Sean Taylor. With him, at this point, that would be expected not just a pipe dream. Grilliams knew what he was doing, unlike Mssr. GM Snyder.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Last Saturday, the Washington Nationals decided to shoot sausages, wrapped up in T-shirts, into the stands, using a small cannon

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

It will be close, but I am going "over." I think they will be 10-6 and a wildcard playoff team.

Posted by: BT23 | May 21, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

The better question is, if the team does go 8-8, which coach is 'sacrificed'?


Joe Bugel

Greg Blache

Chris Meidt

Jim Zorn


I say Joe Bugel is kindly issued out the door. Nothing against Buges, but indirectly blaming him for the faults of the offensive line is not beneath this front office.


Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

If Orapko truly is that impact player. Someone, who along with LaRon Landry that will come in and make the Ravens forget they have Terrel Suggs and Ed Reed, then, yes anything is possible.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe,

Owner likes Blache and Bugel.


Its Zorn. And his ultimate scape goat Campbell.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 2:49 PM | Report abuse

moe, agreed on Buges......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

8-8 is a dream season for these clowns.

Posted by: ridgely1 | May 21, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"In other words, yes Vick can run, but is overrated as a QB.

Posted by: Hail2TheSquire"

You're comparing him to an all-time great, HOF QB. I was simply saying he was a great QB in comparison to his counterparts.

I'd put it this way. If Vick were in his prime (say circa 2005) and being compared to the QBs currently, I'd have a tough choice deciding between he, Eli Manning, and Phillip Rivers (I'd probably put Vick above the other two). I'd take him ahead of Cutler, Romo, Mcnabb, Palmer, and Garrard. I'd put him behind Manning, Brady, Big Ben, and Brees.

But that's just me.

Posted by: psps23 | May 21, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If we were to somehow land Michael Vick I guarantee annual trips to the playoffs. I didnt say Super Bowl but considering he made it to the NFC Championship game with mediocre players and a luke warm defense. I would set the bar a lot higher here in Washington, even with an old beat up line because Michael Vick has a lot more pocket presence than any other QB. Yes, I said think about how many times youve seen him take a sack, dont worry ill wait.lol

Posted by: abysmalsportswear | May 21, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

if the skins don't win 11 games this season they are underachievers. the sched is weak.division competition should be NYG only.as far as Vick goes, most teams including my skins are too stupid to sign Vick and try him out. I live in ATL and when mike played, he had no Defense or O line.recievers dropped the ball like it was the plague. I get so amused when all the so called Vick experts start running their mouths and don't know jacksh*t. just like TO and Randy Moss the skins (even though we have a so called QB head coach) will pass on one of the biggest threats the league has ever seen. not condoning the dog thing but we are talking about dogs. all these cowards out here hunting animals on tv for sport not food: PLEASE! hail skins!

Posted by: jenksredskins | May 21, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

VEGAS BABY!!!! TAKE THE UNDER!!!

Vegas considers the fan base when setting odds. Teams with a large fan base such as the Skins, Cowboys, Steelers, Bears, Niners, etc will set the odds/ over/under a little higher because the fans will usually take the over(no one wants to rout for their team to lose). They had the Steelers at 7 point favorites in the Super Bowl. Everyone thought that was too high but the casinos knew the Steeler faithful would take the points and the casinos made a mint when they didn't cover.That said, they probably got the skins winning 7. I still think we'll get 8-9 wins so I personally will be taking the over like I have the last two years. Won in 07, pushed last year.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

not condoning the dog thing but we are talking about dogs. all these cowards out here hunting animals on tv for sport not food: PLEASE! hail skins!

Posted by: jenksredskins | May 21, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Regis Philbin caught waterboarding Saint Bernard puppies? Sign him at once!

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 21, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

is regis any good?

Posted by: jenksredskins | May 21, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

He talks a mean game.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 21, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

so do you!

Posted by: jenksredskins | May 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

"That's not much of a change from a year ago when, with a rookie head coach in Jim Zorn and what appeared to be a brutal season-opening slate, the Skins' figure was 7.5."

That's right -- the main obstacle last season was that awful opening schedule. But the Skins sailed through that and only faltered in the second half (when the games actually looked easier).

So the oddsmakers turned out correct in the overall and exactly wrong in the particulars.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 21, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

what's up with us opening back to back years in New York???

Posted by: carsonspence | May 21, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

peri

"It's Zorn. And his ultimate scape goat Campbell."


I hate to disagree, I think Campbell is not re-signed, but Zorn remains.

Zorn is like a death camp guard in that he has responsibility, he also has absolute deniability.

The team goes 8-8 and Zorn says, "Hey, I was just doing my job and staying medium."

He can blame everything on JC, and promise to get the next quarterback he to train up 'right'.

He can say, "Hey, I didn't draft JC and would like to have a shot at developing a kid I selected."

Plus: Zorn is the non-threatening type who'll never question anything the Wizards of Redskin Park do.

Which is just want they want anyways.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Samson,

What's "the particular" in oddsmaking? You don't know what their thinkng was.

Posted by: thor2 | May 21, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I say 7-9 (8-8 if we get lucky). Zorn gets canned and the whole process starts over again and again and again. I hate being cynical but how can you not be with this owner?? I've supported them for over 30 years but Snyder just wears me down.

Posted by: timb67 | May 21, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

There's a joke on the sport pages of the NY Times about the Fightin' Irish of Notre Dame wanting to play football games at Yankee Stadium.

I'm not kidding.

So what would be the name of whatever bowl game played by a team sponsored by Touchdown Jesus, but played in the home of the Evil Empire:

pick'em:

The We Are Desperate For Attention Bowl

The Charlie Weis Is Nothing Without Belichek Bowl

The Fallen Off The Map Former Dominant Division 1 Football Team Bowl

The George Steinbrenner It's All 'Bout Dat Dolla Bowl

The Rick Mirer/Brady Quinn Are Garbage Bowl

The Golden Domer Love Green Money Bowl

The We Blame Our Academic Standards For Everything But Not Our Athletes Bowl

And finally, Moe's Favorite:

The Alex Rodriguez/Manny Ramirez Shot In the Rear For Success Bowl

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Zorn gets fired after they go 8-8, and they bring back spurrier, who goes 7-9 and get fired, then Gibbs comes back.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 21, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

And oh, a final thought on college football:

Go Gators!!!!

Maybe the orange and blue gang will get a shot at the golden domers in Yankeeland.

Doubt it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

The We Are Desperate For Attention Bowl


Ding Ding Ding we have a winner

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 21, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Albert's obviously a big plus for the defense. He's the only guy we added that's an obvious starter. But the defense lost 2 DE's, an OLB and a CB. I know there were a bunch of games missed among those 4 guys, but those 4 guys were pretty talented. As a net, the Skins defense should be better this year. But to be fair, a lot of talent did leave. Also on the upside, the starting DBs should all be improving. Less depth at CB, though.

Its the offense that didn't upgrade. Too many guys that already peaked in their careers and plenty of injury risk.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 21, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

With the over and under at 8 that would put the Skins just about where they ended up last year record-wise for the entire season, which is an interesting result. Remember, they finished 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season and on some days you would think they couldn't even beat their meat, let alone another NFL team. So this "line" must believe that the improvements from the end of last season - AH, Dock, Rak - plus a slightly easier sched are enough to get them back to level ground from 2-6. Might even have an expectation of some betterment from QB, WR, HC factored in, but that might be offset by the expectation of the continued aging of CP, Moss, OL.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Actually I think they will call the Notre Dame and Yankee thing

Angles and Demons Starring Tom Hanks as Charlie weis

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 21, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Biggest offseason needs
1.Pass Rush-Fat Albert, Orakpo
2.O-Line- Dockery,Bridges,Whaleams.

We addressed these in the offseason,so why is there still so much complaining on RI? DT11 will be better(good #2 reciever), Sleepy may show up, and God willing ARE will not be returning punts.

Strong running game,great defense,short field. 11-5 win the East.

Posted by: iH8dallas | May 21, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

greatone

"Angels and Demons Starring Tom Hanks as Charlie Weis"


Very clever.

And here's your prize:

(INSERT image of Moe handing Greatone a signed Joe Theisman Notre Dame jersey.)

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 4:27 PM | Report abuse

(no one wants to rout for their team to lose) ... I still think we'll get 8-9 wins so I personally will be taking the over like I have the last two years. Won in 07, pushed last year.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

So you are going to take the Vegas bait like a lot of other chumps. A fan betting on his own team in Vegas is like a dealer getting high on his own supply.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Just curious , what were the Vegas odds of Arizona making it to the Superbowl?

Posted by: iH8dallas | May 21, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I bet 65% of the league is at 8. That's how it works on a bell curve, champions.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | May 21, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Glad to see Edwin Williams still has the maxipad firmly attached to his forehead. Come on Wapo. WTF.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | May 21, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Cutting back on photographers, it's the recession thing, you know.

Posted by: SkinsfaninPeru | May 21, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

For Snidely Owl, Matt Mosely on QB leadership or lack thereof example used, another "chick crack" QB in Dal-ass.

And regarding all the backstabbing going on in the locker room last season, Romo could've done something to head it off at the pass. If you don't have a strong head coach -- and the Cowboys don't -- someone in the locker room better carry a large hammer. Romo could've gone to T.O. privately and told him to cut the nonsense, but to my knowledge, that never happened. He simply tried to ignore T.O. -- and that strategy backfired.

In a sense, T.O.'s gone because Romo didn't know how to keep him in check. Most so-called experts (including me) seem to think the addition by subtraction move will eventually pay off. But if it doesn't, the finger will be pointed squarely at Romo.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

People will gamble on anything!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 21, 2009 12:55 PM

You wanna bet?

Posted by: dcsween | May 21, 2009 6:05 PM | Report abuse

7-9, 6-10. Unless the too many things that need to go right happen, in other words: a miracle happens.

1. Somehow Mike Williams regains his form and shoots for all-pro tackle. Since we also know that Randy Thomas might be one injury away, we see Jansen replacing him at guard and being a very effective snow plow.
Heyer and Bridges improve.

2. Devin Thomas and Fred Davis have huge impacts from their respective positions.

3. Portis shares time with Betts and finds a way to keep fresh.

4. Orapko and Landry become incredible impact players from their respective positions playing off of superior all-pro play by Haynesworth, Hall, Rogers, and Fletcher. Perhaps Wilson makes the leap to linebacker and is able to replace Rocky when his knees give?

5. Campbell has a break out year that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had at about this point in their careers. Then he snubs Danny and leaves.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse

11-5

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 21, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

C'mon Psps23...you're better than this. Nobody is debating that Vick is a superior athlete. That would be stupid. But I've seen him play the Bucs at his peak and they shut him down consistently because they kept him in the pocket and made him prove the could beat them with his arm. He couldn't. And any team with the speed and personnel to keep Vick in the pocket and play zone will make him look bad all day.

Despite having one of the strongest arms in the league, he's not accurate. He doesn't read defenses well. And I wouldn't put his decision making (on field) among the upper half of QBs in the league. Can he change a game? Yes. Is he exciting and explosive? Yes. But the minute his speed goes (and there's no telling if it hasn't already since he hasn't played in 2 years), he's worthless.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 21, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I keep hearing about how the Bucs shut him down consistently... I think that someone needs to look up the facts. In 2001, Vick did not play the Bucs. In 2k2, he threw 12 passes (only completed 4) in a loss and lost the other game. In the game where he went 4/12, Doug Johnson was the primary QB. In 2k3 he went 1-0 against the Bucs (DNP in the other game). In 2004, he went 1-1. In 2005 he got swept by a total of 6 points. In 2006 he swept them back. That makes him 4-4 (not counting the 4/12 performance, counting it he would be 4-5). That is 50% success rate against a divisional foe. That isn't consistent by any stretch. I also believe that Vick only had 2 games where he passed for 300+. One was against the Bucs. I don't see where Vick was dominated by the Bucs, but then again I am IMPARTIAL.

Posted by: moosepod | May 21, 2009 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Purely a tactical discussion:
Given JC's strengths as a deep ball thrower, the focus of the 'Skins West Coast approach should be using the run and short passes to suck in the defense thus exposing them to deep passes. This would be similar to Gibb's philosophy, except you use the short-mid range crossing routes and dump-offs to force the defense to defend them, thus exposing them to hopefully favorable matchups down the sidelines or deep down the middle (Cooley, Davis?).
Maybe this is too obvious to me, but again you must adapt your system to your talent; that is, of course if your team HAS the talent to execute it, which had been the 'Skins problem for far too long.

Posted by: pdfordiii | May 21, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

When you look at all positions, it is VERY RARE for a team with a Pro Bowl voted Qb to not make the playoffs; More so than any other position! At the very least, that Qb's team posted a winning record.

That being said, I expect our defense to finish top 10. I expect Portis to get his usual. And if Jason Campbell can at least play well enough earn a 1st or 2nd alternate to the Pro Bowl, then we have a chance to post 10 wins.

I've visited Vegas a few times in the past and I mostly gamble on sports. Believe it or not I payed my way through my first 2 1/2 years of college that way. Lost a boatload on that 2007 NE vs Phi(with A.J. Feeley starting)though. Vegas knows what they are doing and putting the over/under for the 'Skins at 8 is too smart. My betting side would only give the 'Skins 8 wins this year.

Posted by: Vicc | May 21, 2009 7:07 PM | Report abuse

I'll be watching the preseason games before I make my prediction.

If our OL looks improved, in spite of the lack of attention paid in the draft, I'll go ahead and take the over.

The games with Pittsburgh and Baltimore should show what the OL is worth (as they did last year).
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 21, 2009 9:15 PM | Report abuse

"...Unless the too many things that need to go right happen, in other words: a miracle happens...."

Those of us who are godless tire of all this miracles talk.

If you take a team with an aging offensive line, good defense, mediocre wideouts, quick to break down running back, and add in an insecure quarterback supported by a head coach who seems like nothing but a yes man, 8-8 is a fair and objective assessment of the skins chances this Fall.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

It's all about the O-line. Portis and JC17 will do what they can under the circumstances, we'll need Kelly and/or Thomas to step up and offer another deep threat. I'm just glad Snyderatto didn't give up the farm in this draft:

Jets’ GQ QB Sanchez struggles vs. veterans

Mark Sanchez, razzed for his steamy photo shoot for GQ magazine that hit newsstands earlier this week, struggled mightily Thursday in his third practice with the veterans. The fifth overall draft pick was off-target for much of the session during 11-on-11 drills while working with the second-team offense...

On the contrary, JC17 earned praise for his performance going into his second year with Zorn:

In minicamp, Campbell took command of the offense as the coaching staff hoped he would. "You can see he's comfortable making the calls out there," Smith said. "You can see him taking charge in the huddle. He feels good about himself and he feels good about what we're doing. It just seems like he's saying, 'Hey, man, this is my team,' and he's off to a real good start."

Posted by: Alan4 | May 21, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

what's up with us opening back to back years in New York???

Posted by: carsonspence

Yeah, whats up with that?? Is this the easy rig-game for the NY NFL control spin?? OK, this one is a given rig-loss, we go 9-7 probably, coinflip if we ...oh who gives a sh*t...

Posted by: frak | May 21, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

The more I think about this, the more I am convinced we will be in the playoffs. I think it is reasonable to assume that our offense will be better (adding Dock, JC second year in system, Thomas/Kelly/Davis developing, etc), but very safe to assume that it will at least be as good as last year. I think it is also reasonable to assume that our defense will be significantly better with Orakpo, Fat Albert, Hall. Our schedule is maybe a little harder. I see 10 wins as very attainable.

HAIL

p.s. does anybody else like Dexter? I just got SHowtime and am watching Season 3, big fan

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | May 21, 2009 9:32 PM | Report abuse

"...Clippers Win Draft Lottery..."

How did this escape our attention?

Who are the Clippers anyways, are they a team of ghetto barbers or something?

(INSERT shouts of 'racist' and 'insensitive' and 'sell out' before a picture of upset black folk.)

The lack of chatta about the NBA Draft selection show confirms that no matter how hard other leagues try, no draft gets props like the NFL Draft.

The Major Leaue Baseball draft occurs in a place so dark and distant only Dick Chaney knows where it is.

If the NHL has a draft, it must be an opening in a wall in team offices that lets unexpected cool air in, 'cuz that's the only kind of draft related to that league anybody knows about.

The NFL Draft rocks so much, I'm already reading up on next year's offensive linemen the redskins won't draft.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:43 PM | Report abuse

The NFL Draft rocks so much, I'm already reading up on next year's offensive linemen the redskins won't draft.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 9:43 PM | ==========================================

So you're saying we won't trade up for Russell Okung (I'm presuming we won't earn a top five draft pick the hard way!)?

What say you about Bryan Bulaga (Iowa), or Trent Williams (Oklahoma)?

We're going to need someone to fill Chris Samuels shoes, some day.

(I realize you're talking about what our F.O. will do, and not what Moe would do.)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | May 21, 2009 9:57 PM | Report abuse

thunder

Russell Okung

Bryan Bulaga

Trent Williams


I'm impressed.

I don't even know who these guys are.

But I'm more than ready to demand the redskins FO draft them as a lack of knowledge and facts has never stopped me from claiming to be right before.

In fact, whenever I add alcohol to my ignorance, I become even more knowledgeable and attempt to prove so by raising my voice.

I'll take your information and, with beer in hand, say, "If you don't believe me when I say these guys are good, you better hope the thunder don't get ya!"

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

"...what's up with us opening back to back years in New York???"


The multiple openings in New York have replaced the yearly trip to Tampa and annual visit from the Lions.

I'd like to see us play the Broncos/Packers on the road in December and have an annual home/away series against the ravens.

And we should play the panthas more as its a regional rivarly as well.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 21, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

see 5 wins 11 losses.

Posted by: periculum | April 14, 2009 8:42 PM

7-9, 6-10. Unless the too many things that need to go right happen, in other words: a miracle happens.

Posted by: periculum | May 21, 2009 6:12 PM | Report abuse


We ought to have a page just to see how often someone changes there story or is just completely off.


Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 21, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Isn't he a millionnaire? Why can't he just buy his drugs (il)legally like everybody else?

CANYON, Texas -- Former NFL quarterback Ryan Leaf has been indicted by a Randall County grand jury on drug and burglary charges.

The indictment was handed up Wednesday in Canyon. It charged the 33-year-old former San Diego Chargers quarterback and former West Texas A&M quarterbacks coach with one count of burglary to a habitation, seven counts of obtaining a controlled substance by fraud and delivery of a simulated controlled substance.

Canyon police Lt. Dale Davis said Leaf is suspected of breaking into a Canyon apartment on Oct. 30 and stealing the painkiller Hydrocodone, which had been prescribed to an injured football player.

James Farren, Randall County criminal district attorney, said Leaf has been undergoing drug rehabilitation in British Columbia, the Amarillo Globe-News reported. Farren told the newspaper that efforts were under way to try to convince Leaf to return to the United States on his own.

It was not clear whether Leaf had an attorney.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | May 21, 2009 10:27 PM | Report abuse

REDSKINS go 14-2 and DAN SNYDER becomes a savant genius in the NFL. VINNIE CERRATO has to hire an assistant to help carry DANO's baggage.

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 21, 2009 10:34 PM | Report abuse

REDSKINS go 14-2 and DAN SNYDER becomes a savant genius in the NFL. VINNIE CERRATO has to hire an assistant to help carry DANO's baggage.

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 21, 2009 10:34 PM |

I love your optimism, even if it is sarcasm. I'm sticking with the 9-7 prediction I made in May.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | May 21, 2009 10:39 PM | Report abuse

In a truely serious vein, that was my pick also. Hopeful of more, maybe 11-5 max, but 9-7 realistic with all the ???? on the o-line.

Posted by: glawrence007 | May 21, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

As someone who made a small fortune taking the over on the Redskins wins the past 2 years (7.5 both years), I am a tad bit annoyed it is not 7.5 again this year. The line is not based on what the experts think the Redskins will win, it is based on getting an even number of money wagers on both sides of the line, so that Vegas wins on the juice.

I will again be taking the over this year and I will again be winning on the over this year. But I still wish it were 7.5 again.

Posted by: Barno1 | May 22, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

can somebody write a new article on Redskins? I am tired of Edwin williams face, no offense!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 22, 2009 12:49 AM | Report abuse

Can somebody PLEASE write a NEW article on Redksins?

I am tired of Edwin Williams' face, no offense!

Posted by: peaceful2008 | May 22, 2009 12:51 AM | Report abuse

I don't know the difference between Idle Americans or Dancing With the Has-Beens: to me, it's all about what has become the easiest thing to acquire in the world today: celebrity.

Posted by: MistaMoe

To attain celebrity it is no longer necessary to be talented. But it is not easy to acquire. Small group behind the velvet rope--and getting there is far from easy. It was easier, in fact, when talent counted, because then you had a logical measuring stick.

No longer so. Now it's more a measure of luck, hype, good PR and gimmickry.

But easy? Never.

Posted by: TheCork | May 22, 2009 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Ha, they only come out at night. Good to see you Barno, you need to make some more prime time appearances.

Cork, always a pleasure.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Made a list of the top 30 Skins players (in terms of expected playing time) and whether they will be here for more than 2 years. Its yes, no and B is for bubble. Time for an update

3 S
Landry Y
Horton Y
Moore Y

3 CB
Hall Y
Rogers B
Smoot N

LBs
Fletcher Y
Rocky B
Thomas B
Orakpo Y

DL
Carter N
Wynn N
Daniels N
Albert Y
Golston Y
Griff N


OL
Jansen N
Thomas N
Rabach Y
Dockery Y
Samuels B

Receivers
Moss B
ARE B
Thomas B
Cooley Y

RBs
Sellers N
Portis B

QB
Campbell B

Punter N
Kicker N

totals:
Will be here beyond 2 years: 11
Won't be here beyond 2 years: 10
On the bubble: 9

If the bubble guys split 50/50 (stay/leave), then its roughly 15 guys of the top 30 players will be different on opening day 2011 than they will be on opening day 2009.

The only spot where a current roster player has demonstrated himself to be good enough to step into a major rotation spot is DT (Alexander or Montgomery for Griffin).

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 22, 2009 2:38 AM | Report abuse

Wow. Okay you guys have better fans. But you knew that. And you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew. It's that old refrain. Cowboys fans are just not that into knew.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 2:46 AM | Report abuse

zce2: "f the bubble guys split 50/50 (stay/leave), then its roughly 15 guys of the top 30 players will be different on opening day 2011 than they will be on opening day 2009."

Took me a moment to figure out what the writer was up to, but then it became clear. My question would be: how unusual is it to project a 50% turnover in regulars by the third season out? For a veteran team, that is.

I didn't see Betts' name -- has he been cut?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 5:54 AM | Report abuse

Oh, I see -- you must not expect him to play much. If you'd decided to look at the top 36 players, or the top 52, or included special teams, it would have been different.

I get it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 5:57 AM | Report abuse

barno: "I will again be taking the over this year and I will again be winning on the over this year. But I still wish it were 7.5 again."

Yes, it makes a considerable difference to a bettor, especially one who bets on every game.

I haven't done this in five or six years, but I used to have success picking games that met the following criteria:

1. Later in the season, after some teams had already clinched playoff spots.
2. Team in the playoffs vs team coming off a disappointing season
3. Margin 7 points.

I'd bet the underdog. Of course you're only betting a few games every season, but it paid off for me. I was more into winning than betting. Paid for trip to Tahoe a couple winters.

But gambling's ultimately a loser's game. The more you gamble, and the longer you keep it up, the more you'll lose.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 6:05 AM | Report abuse

(no one wants to rout for their team to lose) ... I still think we'll get 8-9 wins so I personally will be taking the over like I have the last two years. Won in 07, pushed last year.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

So you are going to take the Vegas bait like a lot of other chumps. A fan betting on his own team in Vegas is like a dealer getting high on his own supply.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM


Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 21, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Yea, and maybe you didn't read the rest. I haven't lost the last two years and if not for last years 2nd half callapse I win both.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM | Report abuse

"A fan betting on his own team in Vegas is like a dealer getting high on his own supply.
Posted by: vegasskinsfan"

It sure is. Actually a fan betting on his own favorite team isn't a good idea in NJ, VT, FL, ND, UT, WA, TX, or NM, either.

You can't be objective. You may round up reams of data to support your bet, but you'll still be biased.

I'd rather bet on Oakland-Seattle or some other game I won't even bother to watch.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 6:58 AM | Report abuse

My other rule: I never ever believe anything a gambler tells me about how successful he was last season.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 7:00 AM | Report abuse

I would think 9-7 is attainable, however in the NFC East that probably won't cut it for the playoffs. I think we will witness our fate early, if the offense comes out sputtering as it did at the end of last year, then seeya, could be 6-10, hopefully not.

Posted by: joeboggs | May 22, 2009 7:42 AM | Report abuse

portis could have a great year again if he would let betts play more. such a stingy baby.

Posted by: rls1041 | May 22, 2009 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Sounds right with Jason Cambell at the helm...

Posted by: mmagua | May 22, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Sounds right with Jason Cambell at the helm...

Posted by: mmagua | May 22, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Sounds right with Jason Cambell at the helm.....

Posted by: mmagua | May 22, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Sounds right with Jason Cambell at the helm....

Posted by: mmagua | May 22, 2009 8:06 AM | Report abuse

You can't predict the NFL. The skins could be 11-5 or 5-11. It's moot worrying about it now. In my opinion we were a few missed plays/opportunities/balls bouncing our way from being better than 8-8 last year. I guess I am an eternal optimist, but I have a feeling we will be better than last year. Would I bet money on it, no. Its the only thing sports wise I have to look forward to so I will not be negative.

Posted by: FedorEm | May 22, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Vegas is wrong and are actually being generous in their predictions. The Skins won't win more than 7 games and possibly only 6. Their offensive line is pathetic and the Skins showed their desperation by signing some fat guy whose been out of football for years to solidify that (Mike Williams)???? I think the cash teller I saw at McDonalds yesterday could do an equally good job. Not sold on Haynesworth (seems like a contract year type player) and our LB corps is weak. As for DB, that is probably our only strong suit which is sad given that Carlos Rogers will probably drop another ten would INT's. Oh, and besides Santana Moss, there is no one else to catch the friggin ball from JC. With no O-line, Portis won't do a thing. Thanks Vinnny and Dan for giving away our future for Jason Taylor. A second round pick and a sixth for a player that we paid 8.5 million for FOUR games. Brilliant work guys.

Posted by: marcellorios1 | May 22, 2009 8:21 AM | Report abuse

This is a team that could go 4&12 or 12&4 and win the Super Bowl. Just to many unknowns at this point. If the offensive line improves with Dockery & Williams and the defense which has the talent to be the best in the league, shows up, and our two rookie recievers from last year developed, then its going to be a awesome year. But it could just as easily go the other way.

Posted by: vbhoomes | May 22, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Marcell, why don't you tell us what you really think?! lmao. Aweomse.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 8:37 AM | Report abuse

"Ha, they only come out at night."

"I am tired of Edwin Williams' face."


These comments are the result of two bloggas: one who is glad the freaks come out at night, the other, upset that the sweaty picture of one continues to grace the redskins sports' page.

Williams looks as if he's glancing up at the scoreboard and realizes that the Terps are on their backs and down for the count.

Yes: he is not a handsome fellow, the horrid life issue notwithstanding.

His is a mug no mug could easily be drawn to.

He sort of looks like a mole taking a needed break from borrowing into the interior of someone's backyard.

But what would you expect in terms of looks from a guy who you want to spend Sunday afternoons in the Fall blocking the 330 pound likes of Shaun Rogers and Luis Castillo?

Williams was rated in the top ten (5,7) in various polls of college centers, and as such, might be the one steal at the bottom of the draft we don't give the Wizards of Redskins Park credit for.

And so, in his all his ugliness, in Edwinb Williams we have the beautiful possibility of Rabach's replacement.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 8:39 AM | Report abuse

Honestly, I couldn't care less what this cat looks like, road-grade in the run game, pancake lb/cb/s types, and pass block with the best of them, is what I'm concerned with.

Moe, 9 in a row is impressive, how's Joba's leg?

Anyone got anything going on for the long weekend?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

YES YES YES

yall are gonna be jealous


BOBCATS OWNER BOB JOHNSON LOOKS TO SELL TEAM


OH YEAH!

So THIS is how it feels when a crappy owner wants to sell! IT'S A GREAT FEELING!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

"Thanks Vinnny and Dan for giving away our future for Jason Taylor. A second round pick and a sixth for a player that we paid 8.5 million for FOUR games. Brilliant work guys.

Posted by: marcellorios1"

You're mad that we traded away a second and a sixth? You know we would've used AT LEAST one of those two picks on a punter, and if not a punter with the other, we would've drafted some crappy WR or TE...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Considering the last time the skins won more than 10 games was all they way back in '91 (18 YEARS AGO!), anyone who thinks they go 11-5 or above is retarded.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | May 22, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

bean


Yes: things are swell in Yankeeland.

For now, I'll take down the "FireGirardi.com" website I'd been working on all spring.

Joba will be fine.

CC is ballin'.

Wang will be back and his usual self by next Friday.

Hughes belongs in the bullpen.

I hate to say it, but all the predictions about A Rod's bat in the lineup have become true.

I mean:

Jeter
Damon
Texiera
Rodriguez
Matsui
Cano
Posada
Swisher
Cabrera

Where's the weak spot?

And they are about to play some weak team over the next month: look out Jays!

This lineup is why I think the Sawx will go out and add a veteran big bat.

Nick Johnson would be a good fit for the Sawx. Bat him before Papi, and he, Papi, will get even more protection as he gets his game right.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

(no one wants to rout for their team to lose) ... I still think we'll get 8-9 wins so I personally will be taking the over like I have the last two years. Won in 07, pushed last year.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

So you are going to take the Vegas bait like a lot of other chumps. A fan betting on his own team in Vegas is like a dealer getting high on his own supply.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

Yea, and maybe you didn't read the rest. I haven't lost the last two years and if not for last years 2nd half callapse I win both.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM

And thinking a sample size of 2 proves your point makes you an even bigger chump!

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 22, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

What's with the baseball threads?

Skins O-line will have its "swan's song" performance (pride) this year before it is blown up next year and Buges retires. That adds a game. Year 2 in a common offensive scheme (familiarity) will add a game. Defensive strength adds another game (3rd down shutdown) Therefore, 11-5 is a productive year before we return to mediocrity.

Have some faith Skin fans!

Posted by: rogerwallison | May 22, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

Considering the last time the skins won more than 10 games was all they way back in '91 (18 YEARS AGO!), anyone who thinks they go 11-5 or above is retarded.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | May 22, 2009 9:02 AM

Ah yes. The declamation of retardation coming from one who identifies himself/herself as "REDneckSKINhead"!

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 22, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

um the baseball threads are as a result of baseball games being played...

moe, I still contend that the sox wont get a bat. They value their kids/pitchers in the farm system too much, especially in a sellers market. Unless some high end guy becomes available who is under a reasonable contract that they can control for the next few years, I can't see it.

Holliday would make sense, but he's a free agnet next year, and Boras clients NEVER sign prior to free agency.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

What's with the baseball threads?

Posted by: rogerwallison | May 22, 2009 9:20 AM

um the baseball threads are as a result of baseball games being played...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 9:29 AM

This is a Skins blog dude. Maybe you and Mista should get a room.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 22, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

bean


Jake Peavy v. Roy Halladay

Take your pick.

I'm taking Halladay as all he'll cost is money.


Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

anton, right my bad, we're what, 4 months away from the start of the season, sorry I brought up baseball.......

Lets discuss Marcus Mason, and what role he'll play on the team.

No..no, better yet, lets discuss if the Redskins will extend JC after the season is over.

No...not even better, lets discuss if letting Antonio Pierce go back in 2004 was the right move for the team.......have at it....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

truth

"BOBCATS OWNER BOB JOHNSON LOOKS TO SELL TEAM"


I figure some car washes, candy sales, maybe Cindy Boren in a kissing booth, and we'll raise enough cash to buy the Bobcats from Bob "BET" Johnson.

Only, let's change the name to The Charlotte Bloggas and use Edwin Williams' face as the team's image.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

anton

"This is a Skins blog dude."

Actually, this is a blog owned by the WA PO.

And according to the rules I agreed to follow, there's nothing in them at all about the subject being regulated only to the non-doings of a team that's not generating any news.

The Washington Redskins Team page has a fine blog filled with a bunch of slurpy commentary about a team that ain't played a game since Xmas time.

In fact, on that page, they list an assortment of portals through which a mortal can venture and find a lot of talk about nothing as nothing is going on.

Perhaps you should get a room there and put folks to sleep with a lot of chatta about the very little information emanating from team headquarters.

I'd post all day about the team if there was something interesting to discuss: but until June 1st, there's nothing to say.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

We aren't talking about baseball unless we're talking about those Gnats.

How bout my Gnats? Top 5 in most offensive categories. Don't worry about pitching and defense though. They may be last in those categories, but there's no where to go but up........

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 22, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

So far this week it's been a favorite movie blog, a basketball playoffs blog, a rap/hip-hop blog, a dog vs human; which is more important? blog, and a soccer is great/soccer sucks blog. What's wrong with a little baseball talk?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 22, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

It's basically Summer Time and there are no rules. Just like pre-registration....

(I'm just waiting for someone to bring up 'Obama vs Cheny I' personally)

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 22, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Wow. Okay you guys have better fans. But you knew that. And you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew. It's that old refrain. Cowboys fans are just not that into knew.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 2:46 AM

Check out the old refrain from refraining refrainer ... refraining an old refrain ... OK, now I'll refrain from further refrain refraints.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090522/NEWS02/905220399/NFL++State+should+brace+for+lawsuit

I guess the NFL thinks it’s okay to bet on their games if you are in Las Vegas, but not in Delaware…….

Makes me angry....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 22, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

The Comment:

“We need to determine the prettiest male in this locker room,” Jenkins said.


The Player Discussed:

Mark Sanchez


From information gleaned from OTAs, which drafted player look like he will generate buyer's remorse?:

pick'em:

Matthew Stafford

Mark Sanchez

Brian Orakpo

Percy Harvin

Michael Oher

Aaron Curry

Flounder21 (where's he been, anyways?)

Micheal Crabtree

BJ Ryan

Cody Glenn


Moe says both Stafford and Sanchez will disappoint as they only left school early to get a better draft slot this year over next.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

4th, you mean like this?

"I think it will go relatively quickly ... weeks rather than months."
- Vice President Dick Cheney, 3/16/03

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Good enough Sween. I haven't seen either's speech from yesterday, but the whole story seems pretty comical to me, on both sides.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 22, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

The translation for those listening in at home: "this thing will pay for itelf"

[Same date, 3/16/03]

MR. RUSSERT: Every analysis said this war itself would cost about $80 billion, recovery of Baghdad, perhaps of Iraq, about $10 billion per year. We should expect as American citizens that this would cost at least $100 billion for a two-year involvement?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I can’t say that, Tim. There are estimates out there. It’s important, though, to recognize that we’ve got a different set of circumstances than we’ve had in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan you’ve got a nation without significant resources. In Iraq you’ve got a nation that’s got the second-largest oil reserves in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia. It will generate billions of dollars a year in cash flow if they get back to their production of roughly three million barrels of oil a day, in the relatively near future. And that flow of resources, obviously, belongs to the Iraqi people, needs to be put to use by the Iraqi people for the Iraqi people and that will be one of our major objectives.

>>>>> The most significant tactical blunder was not sending in Leigh Torrence from the beginning.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

the whole story seems pretty comical to me, on both sides.

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 22, 2009 10:43 AM

As comical as torture can be.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

I've got no problems with terrorist being tortured. None what-so-ever.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

I recognize Orakpo, and I assume the tall one is Marko Mitchell, but which one is Kevin Barnes?

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Rookies_Return_For_More_Off_season_Work_36684.jsp

Greg, so for what purpose? General vengeance through sadism?

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

dc, to gain knowledge of the inner workings of their particular group.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Today's listening assigment is sorely needed by this group (myself included):

Jonathan Richman w OF w/o the Modern Lovers!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

... should be "OR.." lol.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

As comical as torture can be.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 10:48 AM

You got that right. I am just saying that it could still be handled better on both sides, that's all. Obama shouldn't have to be the one punching at Cheny. Someone else should be in the ring against him, because Cheney is like Rush Limbaugh now that he isn't in office anymore. And where is Bush in all of this? Is he finally conciding to the fact the Cheny was running the Country?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 22, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Nothing against Cheney making a speech, but his time on the stage has passed.

Both he and George Bush had eight years to really sit down and explain how they were interrogating suspected terrorists and preferred not to.

And now that Obama is in charge, Cheney can't stop yakking about how the country should interrogate suspected terrorists.

And you have to wonder why should anyone listen to what he has to say.

After all, most of the claims he and his sidekick Mr. Bush made regarding the war in Iraq and on terrorism never came about despite the loss of America soldiers' life, national prestige, and taxpayers' dollars.

In fact, during the election, Cheney was quiet as John McCain--a formerly tortured American prisoner mind you--stood up to say he didn't think torture was wise. But know, he's all-knowing and correct and should be listened to.

Dick Cheney needs to hang up the Darth Vader costume and move on into retirement before the phrase 'morally bankrupt fraud' becomes a part of his Wikipedia profile--if it hasn't already.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Can the Post get that photo of Ed Williams off of there?Posted by: skinfanman | May 21, 2009 8:45 AM
------------------------
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I AGREE!!

Posted by: hanimal03 | May 22, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse


From information gleaned from OTAs, which drafted player look like he will generate buyer's remorse?:

pick'em:

Matthew Stafford

Mark Sanchez

Brian Orakpo

Percy Harvin

Michael Oher

Aaron Curry

Flounder21 (where's he been, anyways?)

Micheal Crabtree

BJ Ryan

Cody Glenn


Moe says both Stafford and Sanchez will disappoint as they only left school early to get a better draft slot this year over next.

Posted by: MistaMoe

Let us know when they start playing regular season games in shorts and without pads.

Posted by: TheCork | May 22, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Dik, the best 12 minutes of rock and roll is the 5 song run on "Rock and Roll with the Modern Lovers" that goes from South American Folk Song > Roller Coaster by the Sea > Dodge Veg-o-matic > Egyptian Reggae > Coomyah. Actually, b/c this one has Ice Cream Mand and Rockin' Rockin' Leprechauns, it probably is the best contribution by those guys.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"and we'll raise enough cash to buy the Bobcats from Bob "BET" Johnson.

Only, let's change the name to The Charlotte Bloggas and use Edwin Williams' face as the team's image.


Posted by: MistaMoe "


it'll actually be cheap compared to most pro teams....in the 280 mil range, Johnson wants like 345 mil, but the estimated value is under 300 mil. I think for 300 mil we could get it.

I could run it very well, anybody got the money? seriously, I dominate on NBA2k9 when I do fantasy drafts and stuff. And I'm good at Madden.

Anybody?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

dc, to gain knowledge of the inner workings of their particular group.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 10:59 AM

Or to get them to confess that they actually belong to a terrorist group? If tell a guy you will remove the jumper cables from his nuts if he tells you what you want to hear, he will tell you what you want to hear. Information gathered through torture is not reliable information.

* Also, not even Cheney has come clean and admitted that what they did was "torture." They called it enhanced interrogation techniqes. But if there is a guy in Boston who has no problem with that, none what-so-ever, then that should be persuasive enough to make everyone proud that this stuff is consistent with who we try to be as a country.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Is anyone interested in investing in TheTruth as owner of The Charlotte Bobcats?

We'll rename the team after you.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

dc, I'm about as far away from a bleeding heart liberal as possible, sorry if I don't feel badly for torturing guys who masterminded the slaughter of 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

TheCork


I hear ya.

Thing is, folks have griped about 'non-football'post, and so I'm just reachin' for something to get this blog going.

Last Friday, you could've get a snarky remark in edgewise.

Today, the blog is in a coffin, no, better yet, urn.

Let's just hope the cat doesn't confuse the blog's ashes with kitty litter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Moe

Halladay or Peavy? There isn't even an argument here. It's Halladay hands down. The guy has been consistent for years at home or away pitching in not only the American League but also arguably the toughest division in baseball. Peavy's era is about 1.5 runs higher away from home. He turned down the trade to thw White Sox because he doesnt want to have to face American League hitting.

Posted by: Skins281 | May 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm not much for political talk, but I am with Greg, 100%. That jerk weed senator Red Foreman shouldn't have gone after Jack Bauer like that.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 22, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

guys who masterminded the slaughter of 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 12:06 PM

That's a high degree of certainty about the identity of a crowd of guys rounded up in Northern Afghanistan.

Almost as certain as "we'll be outta there in three months and this thing is going to pay for itself."

Hubris.

Btw, good work on picking up bin Laden and Omar. [and by picking up bin Laden, I'm not referring to flying his zillionaire relatives home while the rest of the country's air space is on lock down].

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't be surprised if bin Laden has been dead for over 5 years...

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/21/leaf.indicted.ap/index.html


CANYON, Texas (AP) -- Former NFL quarterback Ryan Leaf has been indicted by a Randall County grand jury on drug and burglary charges.

The indictment handed up Wednesday in Canyon charged the 33-year-old former San Diego Chargers quarterback and former West Texas A&M quarterbacks coach with one count of burglary to a habitation, seven counts of obtaining a controlled substance by fraud and one count of delivery of a simulated controlled substance.

The indictment said Leaf presented an incomplete medical history to several physicians between January 2008 and September 2008 to get or tr Hydrocodone.

It was not clear whether Leaf had an attorney.

Canyon police Lt. Dale Davis said Leaf is suspected of breaking into a Canyon apartment on Oct. 30 and stealing Hydrocodone, which had been prescribed to an injured football player.

"There were signs of a forced entry," Davis said. "A window in the back of the home was (damaged)."

The count of delivery of a simulated controlled substance alleges Leaf gave an individual a substance he said was Hydrocodone but was not that drug.

James Farren, Randall County criminal district attorney, said Leaf has been undergoing drug rehabilitation in British Columbia, the Amarillo Globe-News reported.

Farren told the newspaper that efforts were under way to try to convince Leaf to return to the United States on his own.

"We have not found any evidence implicating anyone other than Mr. Leaf in this case ... but believe there's additional evidence implicating him in other events," Farren said. He would not elaborate.

Leaf, a Great Falls, Mont., native, led Washington State to the Pacific-10 Conference championship and Rose Bowl appearance. The Chargers made him the second pick of the 1998 NFL draft. He played for the Chargers from 1998-2000 and also played for the Dallas Cowboys in 2001. He threw for 3,666 yards and 14 touchdowns in his career.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

beanto: "...sorry if I don't feel badly for torturing guys who masterminded the slaughter of 3000 innocent Americans on 9/11."

What about torturing guys who didn't? You OK with that?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

truth

"I wouldn't be surprised if bin Laden has been dead for over 5 years..."

You get today's prize: the kidney dialysis machine that once belonged to a 7 foot tall bearded terrorist the American government couldn't find in the middle of desert, goat herders, and jagged mountains.

Now, if you make another outstanding claim, we'll supply you with the electrical outlet that was used to keep that machine running these past eight years.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

By the way, couldn't help noticing that we're now up to 131 death row inmates exonerated by DNA evidence. All those folks were tried by prosecutors, convicted by juries, and in most cases, upheld on appeal -- that's quite an error factor.

And we think Vinny Cerrato makes a lot of mistakes.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

sorry MistaMoe but are you saying that was a stupid comment or a good comment?

:\

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"to a 7 foot tall bearded terrorist the American government couldn't find in the middle of desert, goat herders, and jagged mountains."

Seven foot? You must do the rosters for NBA team websites. It's amazing how fast people grow.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

The one with the beard, get him!

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Are there any NFL players with beards? Or does that make for too many ingrown hairs with chin straps such as.

[btw, my regrets for taking 4th's bait on talking about stuff that this place is supposed to distract us from]

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

You know what we never talk about up here? Goats. Lawn mowers are loud, maybe a goat would be better. What's the downside of a goat (other than the whole "looks like Satan" thing)?

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Also, back to the dog conversation from earlier ... I have eaten goat. It was fatty ... and stringy ... not that good to eat.

Posted by: dcsween | May 22, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

(no one wants to rout for their team to lose) ... I still think we'll get 8-9 wins so I personally will be taking the over like I have the last two years. Won in 07, pushed last year.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

So you are going to take the Vegas bait like a lot of other chumps. A fan betting on his own team in Vegas is like a dealer getting high on his own supply.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 21, 2009 3:21 PM

Yea, and maybe you didn't read the rest. I haven't lost the last two years and if not for last years 2nd half callapse I win both.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM

And thinking a sample size of 2 proves your point makes you an even bigger chump!

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 22, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

you gotta start somewhere. how you doing on the spreads? Besides what do you care,it's my $. Don't hate on the winners.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

And thinking a sample size of 2 proves your point makes you an even bigger chump!

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 6:20 AM

Posted by: AntonChigurh | May 22, 2009 9:18 AM | Report abuse

If you knew how to read you'd see that I said to take the under. It's in caps at the top of the comment. I also said people(me included) will take the over because no one wants to rout for their team to lose. IT"S MORE FUN TO ROUT FOR THEM TO WIN!!!! DUH!!! If you can't have fun gambling you shouldn't be doing it. Anton do you even know what a "futures" bet is without googling it? We're all talking about how our "D" is much improved but most of us here seem to forget that we lost a few key players also so chemestry may be missing. Our high expectations worry me. If the offense doesn't come around we're in trouble.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Loooove eating goat! don't like buffalo, tho.

Like rabbit, never wanted squirrel.

Y'know what's REALLY good, though?

Kangaroo!!! Yum!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Alligator's tasty.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

zce2: "f the bubble guys split 50/50 (stay/leave), then its roughly 15 guys of the top 30 players will be different on opening day 2011 than they will be on opening day 2009."

Took me a moment to figure out what the writer was up to, but then it became clear. My question would be: how unusual is it to project a 50% turnover in regulars by the third season out? For a veteran team, that is.

I didn't see Betts' name -- has he been cut?

Posted by: Samson151 |

Good question. I'd take a math approach. Say top 30 players have 10 year careers on average.

Figure on average guys make 1 team switch during their prime years. So roughly, you're talking an average of 5 years with 1 team for top 30 guys. Which means an average of 6 players change/year. So 12 players out of the top 30 in 2 years.

The Skins 2008-2009 transition is close to that. Springs, Taylor, Evans, Washington and Kendall are out. 5 guys out of 30, with the punter and kicker both vulnerable.

The point of my comments was to look at how many quality new players the Skins will need to bring in over the next 2 years. I see 10 as the minimum, but it could be as many as 20.

As for why Betts wasn't on that list -- judgment call. Could have put him on the list and taken out an LB. Not sure that changes the main point.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 22, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

samson, give me the percent of people who have been captured, and tortured and are completely 100 percent innocent??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Yes - 'Gator be goode!

Hey - what is going on w/ ST kickers, punters? Is it really that hard to get someone now? You would think they'd be lining up for the job w/ only one opening for each per team. Is soccer paying that well now?! Now there's a shift (almost said 'paradigm shift' - phew, caught myself. OHNO! I JUST SAID it ANYWAY! I LOOSE!).

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

If you talk about terrorists on a Redskins blog.................the terrorists win! Enough already! Guilty people walk free and innocent ones get locked up(or worse). It's not a perfect system but it's what we got.

Posted by: vegasskinsfan | May 22, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Then comes the whole question of if you buy the story they're selling about 911.

What's that explosive chemical powder that was all over the scene that couldn't have come from anything that was involved w/ the crash? Too many unanswered questions. Too many reasons to be in the Middle East. It just sux it had to be under a pretext. I bet they coulda just said they were goin' in w/o the sacrifice of the innocents.

bottom line, you don't really know what happened. The people involved probably don't know what really happened...

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

samson, give me the percent of people who have been captured, and tortured and are completely 100 percent innocent??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 1:47 PM

Beantown, as usual your dumb guy imitation is flawless.

Posted by: mack1 | May 22, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

The Game...You Loose!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 22, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

mack1, that was funny! Great comeback.....

beantown, man, stick to fishing, NASCAR and softball....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 22, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Truth


I'm in a rush.

What you said about Bin Ladin probably being death for some time is a theory my brother in law as advanced for some time.

And I agree with the both of you: Osama Bin Ladin was a Bush boogeyman brought up only whenever anyone questioned Bush policy.

I'm out.

Enjoy the weekend!

Inter-league baseball, barbeque, and take some time to thank a soldier for saving our bee-hinds: it is Memorial Day this weekend, after all.

Cee-ya!!!!!


Hail!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 22, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I can't see how anyone would be FOR torture.

Isn't torture, just by definition, something that everyone should be against?

Yeah, no crap what they've done to us or might do to us is awful. But so is torture.

It's disgusting. All of it. Just like this blog.

And this world.

And the freaking galaxy.

I HATE EXISTENCE

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I’m not an advocate for torture, but I believe that it is a necessary evil that needs to be used in only extreme circumstances. It’s one of those things that will happen in every country, no matter what the UN dictates. I doubt that Greg or anyone who says that torture is necessary would say that they support torture for toture’s sake…..if that makes sense.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 22, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

it doesn't dlhaze....this is all uber simplification of a complex matter, and nobody is served talking about here in such a shallow end of the pool.

Real life is not 24 or Taken....

But whateves....i aint't getting dragged into it...

enjoy the 3 day weekend!

Posted by: chrislarry | May 22, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

cl, go change a diaper...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 22, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

wow was that a lame retort beantown....

Posted by: chrislarry | May 22, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm out of here too....a great weekend to all!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | May 22, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

"And I agree with the both of you: Osama Bin Laden was a Bush boogeyman brought up only whenever anyone questioned Bush policies"

It is interesting how politicians have learned to use those built-in archetypes to shape and mold public opinion in their favor.

Of course here we are jibber jabbering on one them there thangs! Archetype's that is.

I'm off to help nunof1 on the NJ blog.

Be watching my boys the Nationals. Hoping they can turn this around. I think they have too much talent not to.


Posted by: periculum | May 22, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"samson, give me the percent of people who have been captured, and tortured and are completely 100 percent innocent??Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

Tell you what: you give the percent of people who have been captured and tortured who you feel 100% sure are guilty.

Now because this is America -- prove it.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"I’m not an advocate for torture, but I believe that it is a necessary evil that needs to be used in only extreme circumstances"

OK, I volunteer you. Remember, no matter how it may feel, you're not really drowning. There will be no permanent damage to your physiology. The sooner you talk, the sooner they'll stop pouring water down your throat.

Feel better?

Posted by: Samson151 | May 22, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

And the freaking galaxy.

I HATE EXISTENCE

Posted by: TheTruth11 |


Aren't you curious about Dark Matter?

See the deal about feeling suicidal is, it's a lot like most plane crashes. A LOT of little things have to go wrong for it to happen. Fix any one of them, and it doesn't happen.

Add up all the negatives, then pick them off one by one.

Fr'instance, Cheney can whine and cheerlead for torture, but he can't govern any more.

Posted by: TheCork | May 22, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

over WAAY over

Posted by: ElYeah | May 22, 2009 3:46 PM | Report abuse

When you look at all positions, it is VERY RARE for a team with a Pro Bowl voted Qb to not make the playoffs; More so than any other position! At the very least, that Qb's team posted a winning record...

That being said, I expect our defense to finish top 10. I expect Portis to get his usual. And if Jason Campbell can at least play well enough earn a 1st or 2nd alternate to the Pro Bowl, then we have a chance to post 10 wins....

Posted by: Vicc | May 21, 2009 7:07 PM

Focusing on QB "recognition" such as Pro-Bowls is very deceptive, and part of the trap Snyder and Ceratto keep falling into. Players on good teams are recognized, players on bad teams often are not. If Big Ben played for the Detroit Lions and had the exact same individual season he had last year (even if he won a game or two for the Lions), he'd be viewed as a mediocre-to-bad QB.

Most of the Pro-Bowl QBs have been comfortable in their system for awhile and are on good teams. Thus, a backup QB like Matt Cassel can step in and look like an All-Pro for the Pats after 3 seasons of sitting on the bench learning the same system with a strong team. Byron Leftwich can step in for Big Ben and never miss a beat because 1) the Steelers are a solid team and 2) the QB doesn't have to win games for the Steelers--anything a QB does in Pittsburgh is extra.

JC17 can't have a pro-bowl year without adequate blockers and receievers. Neither could Big Ben, but he could get in position to win a Super Bowl with an outstanding team effort all year long on the other side of the ball.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 22, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

jesus christ

when Alan4 shows up pimping Jason Campbell


that means it's time for me to go


later peoples

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 22, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

That's all I have to do to get rid of your lame a$$? Cool!

Posted by: Alan4 | May 22, 2009 5:39 PM | Report abuse

I've lost track, can anyone top-ten the current RI blogger feuds? Is this available on the Wiki? It could prove a handy reference guide - an RI Opera Digest, if you will. Barno v JLC, Truth v T_E, etc. Or I could start paying attention and do it myself.

Make sure you get me and that deafening blowhard.

Posted by: SMACK1 | May 22, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

man! knew what I was gonna post, then looked at the jibba jabba...and it didn't change my mind in the least. negative this, campbell won't do that, defense and the other--and we added the best defensive player in the game AND drafted a stud, and we have the classiest QB in the league with moss and some young fellas....and we apparently just drove off a cliff. y'all aint fans.F the feuds.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 23, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

9, maybe 10. playoffs for sure. and we finally beat seatle...seaatel...seatlle...seaturtle...whatever, they aint makin it

Posted by: RomoLongballs | May 23, 2009 12:16 AM | Report abuse

I see 9 wins on the Skins schedule.
8 wins has been enough to make the NFC Playoffs in 2 of the past 5 seasons though.

Posted by: jeremybozz | May 23, 2009 1:08 AM | Report abuse

There is no reason to expect anything but mediocrity from the Redskins this year. Their most glaring need was the offensive line, and it has not been properly addressed.
Unless the team's defense turns out to be so good that they will be able to win by scoring 17 points, a successful season (playoffs) is unlikely.
Campbell is not the problem...Dan and Vinny are the problem.

Posted by: Let_it_Be | May 23, 2009 2:46 AM | Report abuse

I hate to be the voice of optimism... That's not my forte.

But, how can we be no better than last year? Zorn will be better. Campbell will be better. The D will be better. The O Line will be (at least one Dockery) better.

I hate to make a numerically "better" outcome, but what the hey...

10 - 6.

Playoffs 50 - 50 chance... Depends on Giants, who shouldn't be able to run on us like they have the past three years.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | May 23, 2009 3:52 AM | Report abuse

OH, and the disclaimer... almost forgot...

I wouldn't bet on it. I'll put it that way.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | May 23, 2009 3:57 AM | Report abuse

does anyone else think that dick cheneys new job as a stand up comedian will last?

Posted by: rls1041 | May 23, 2009 7:45 AM | Report abuse

I hate how Redskin's fans tend to be so pessimistic. Yes, I know, we've had very little to cheer for the last 15 years, but to say that 8 wins is optimistic, is utterly ridiculous. This team has alot of talent, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and should be somewhat improved offensively now that they'll know/understand the offense better. The defense should be top 5 once again (maybe top 3). If our O-line holds up and our WR's step up, we should be a playoff team w/ 10 wins or more. And for the love of Pete, give Zorn a chance. He's only had one season so far. May I remind you that the legendary Joe Gibbs also went 8-8 during his rookie season. And the men are similar: both are emotional leaders with a strong moral base. If Zorn has half the success Gibbs did, we're in for another Superbowl or two before it's all over with. Keep your heads up B&G faithful and...........HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!!!!!!

Posted by: StevenMarlow | May 24, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins will go 10-6 in 2009 because:

-Fred Davis will catch 40 balls, 2-3 a game
-Clinton Portis will have his last great year, rushing for 1100 yards, 75-125 a game
-A younger scatback will push Betts or Rock
-Cooley will be Cooley, getting to ProBowl
-Mild Mannered Jason "Candle" will fire his agent, re-up with the redskins (breaking Dannyboy's heart) AND have a decent year, with 25 passing TD's and a couple rushing.
-Brian Orakpo, Albert Haynesworth, Derrick Dockery and even 400lb OL Mike Williams will snotknock a few Cowboys, contributing solidly
-Jon Jansen will backup everyone on the offensive line, ala Raleigh McKenzie, and squeeze a couple more years out in the NFL
-and Zorn will do his thing, stay medium, and win out in December.

Posted by: texasSkinfan | May 26, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

This is very good!
http://www.nowgoal.com/22.shtml

Posted by: suesue8709 | May 28, 2009 5:33 AM | Report abuse

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