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Todd Collins, Ethan Albright and Derrick Forst News

So much for this week of "vacation" - think I've worked every day. Oh well, part of the gig and I have had time to get the house ready to hit the market, so I can't complain.

I'm running out of time so here's what will be in the paper tomorrow in its boring, newspaper form. Cheers.

By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer

New Redskins Coach Jim Zorn phoned quarterback Todd Collins this week to relay the team's interest in retaining the potential free agent in a backup capacity, while Washington also agreed on a new contract with Pro Bowl long snapper Ethan Albright.

Zorn informed Collins that youngster Jason Campbell was the team's starting quarterback for 2008 and remains a cornerstone of their future, but Zorn praised Collins's production last season as well, league sources said, and told the veteran he considers him a strong No. 2 quarterback. Owner Daniel Snyder and executive vice president Vinny Cerrato expressed the same sentiment to many coaching candidates during their prolonged search, believing that Collins could be a quality backup even having to learn the West Coast offense under Zorn and no longer with his mentor, former associate head coach Al Saunders.

Collins, 36, has told friends that he is eager for the opportunity to earn a starting job, but although that is not the case in Washington he is not averse to re-signing. The Redskins have not made an offer to Collins yet - he just completed a two-year free agent deal since in 2006, but team representatives have been on contact with Collins's agent and the sides could hold face-to-face meetings next week at the combine in Indianapolis (the Redskins are likely to meet with the agents for several of their players next week as they continue to renegotiate contracts in order to clear salary cap room)..

Jacksonville, Atlanta, St. Louis (where Saunders now coaches) and Minnesota could have interest in him as well league sources said, though starting options are expected to be minimal. Collins went 10 years between starts but played in the final four games after Campbell was injured and led the team to the playoffs. The Redskins are not expected to retain free agent passer Mark Brunell, their third quarterback last season, but could pursue veteran Trent Dilfer for that role.

Albright continued his trend of being the first player re-signed by the club in the off season, saying yesterday that he signed the one-year offer sent to him in the mail ("Same contract as last year and that's more than enough for me," he said. Albright, one of the most consistently accurate snappers in the NFL, has been with Washington since 2001 and has not missed a game since 1995. "I'm very excited," Alrbight said yesterday upon returning from a post-Pro Bowl family vacation in Hawaii. "I'll be back for another year."

The Redskins have also extended an initial contract offer to potential free agent punter Derrick Frost, league sources said, but another prominent special teams player, return man Rock Cartwright, has yet to be contacted by the team, he said. Cartwright is not optimistic about remaining in Washington, and is seeking a deal worth at least $2 million guaranteed, sources said.

Two other free agents, linebacker Randall Godfrey and safety Pierson Prioleau, are entertaining the idea of joining longtime coach Gregg Williams, in Jacksonville, sources said. Washington retains sole negotiating rights to these players until February 29.

By Jason La Canfora  |  February 16, 2008; 6:43 PM ET
 
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Next: From the Combine

Comments

First! Thanks for the info JLC. Good luck on the home sale.

Posted by: GWSkinFan | February 16, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

great, another year of shankzilla punting.

Posted by: wfchez | February 16, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Rock's a good guy and I'd hate to see him go but he's a little slow to be a kick returner. Rock's return average was good this past season but he just didn't seem to have that breakaway speed to take it all the way!

Skins should try to resign Collins if the price isn't too steep! I wouldn't giveaway the farm for him though at his age and lack of mobility!! WC offense is predicated on a mobile QB which Collins is not!!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | February 16, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to keep Rock, but I guess it's a business. I don't know if I'd pay him 2 million. One thing I noticed from JLac's post is that Jim Zorn immediately named Jason Campbell as the starter. Under Gibbs, they would have mushmouthed around the issue.

Jason it's your show...Toddster, you can sit back and ride...I like...I like!

Posted by: rickyroge | February 16, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Red snapper again? Good deal.

Posted by: corkczar | February 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Red snapper again? Good deal.

Posted by: corkczar | February 16, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

We keep Collins in the WC? An offense he has no experience running (along w/ JC)?

Why not get a backup who can run it?

I guess they're going to grovel to the 8 car as well?

Curious.

Posted by: gdennie | February 16, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

They just mail EA the new contract? No agent, no negotiation?

I'm not quite sure why I find that so amusing.

Posted by: suz | February 16, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse

I know he is the long snapper, but I love Albrights attitude. Show him some love and give him a two year deal

Posted by: hokie34 | February 16, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

The deal with a contract for a longtime veteran like EA is the vet min which is probably about $900K with no signing bonus or a small one. Once he makes the final 53 man roster, the entire contract becomes guaranteed. In a special provision to help vet keep jobs in the NFL, his salary then will only count for about half that amount (or even less) under the cap. If they pay more or give him a bonus, then they don't get the special cap deal from the NFL. That's why it's pretty much set that that's the contract he'll get - no need for negotiations or an agent.

Posted by: cdachi | February 16, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse

The Red Snapper is a great guy, if you ever hear him interview, he is so down to earth, I mean he is one of the least known players on the field and I hear the worst rated player in Madden NFL.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I know he is the long snapper, but I love Albrights attitude. Show him some love and give him a two year deal

Posted by: hokie34 | February 16, 2008 08:07 PM

If I recall from last year correctly, he's only willing to sign a one-year deal.

Posted by: daggar | February 16, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

The spy gate will not die.

Lawsuit seeks compensation for Super Bowl loss
Associated Press
NEW ORLEANS -- A former St. Louis Rams player and three fans sued the New England Patriots today over allegations that the Patriots cheated in the 2002 Super Bowl by taping a Rams practice before the game.

Former Rams player Willie Gary and other plaintiffs are seeking millions in damages in their federal lawsuit, filed in New Orleans.

The Patriots beat the Rams, 20-17, on a last-second field goal in the 2002 Super Bowl at the Louisiana Superdome in New Orleans. Before the game, former Patriots employee Matt Walsh allegedly taped a walkthrough practice by the Rams. Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't comment on the allegations.

The lawsuit accuses the Patriots of fraud, unfair trade practices and engaging in a "pattern of racketeering."

The plaintiffs' attorneys are asking a judge to certify the case as a class action on behalf of anyone who purchased a Super Bowl ticket or attended the game, all Rams employees on the 2002 team and any owner of a Rams seat license for the 2001-2002 season.

Hugh Campbell, a Cincinnati-based lawyer who filed the suit, says the loss cost Rams players much more than Super Bowl rings and bonuses. He says, quoting here, "More importantly, their careers would have been advanced if they were winners instead of losers."

Spokesmen for the Patriots and Rams both declined to comment on the suit.

Gary, a defensive back who played at Kentucky, was signed by the Rams as an undrafted rookie free agent in 2001. He was released in September 2002 and he played in NFL Europe that season. In 2003, he joined the Arena League Georgia Force.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

So no agent commission for the Red Snapper. That is what, another 45k or 90k in his pocket.

I have already posted that I think for the same $$ Todd goes elsewhere, if elsewhere runs Weird Al's 700pg Offense.

That said, smart dude and cool under pressure, from what we have seen, and can co-exist with JC, so I would be happy to have him back. Not going to outbid anyone for him though, I would think.

What vets, other then The Dilfer, are out there who have WCO experience and would not make me puke at the thought of them in a game?

Scampi? Do you have a list for us?

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

You know, I was in Tampa in '84, and I could have sworn I saw Jim Plunkett buying rounds for Joey Heisman and Riggo . . . hmmmmmmmmm

Anyone know a good lawyer?

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

They should at least give Albright a solid rating in Madden though, configure him to be the no 1 long snapper.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

You know, I was in Tampa in '84, and I could have sworn I saw Jim Plunkett buying rounds for Joey Heisman and Riggo . . . hmmmmmmmmm

Anyone know a good lawyer?

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Leftwitch got tossed by Atl. Not a starter anymore but a local boy may be willing to sign for cheep.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

As usual I don't get it, only in this case I don't get that the Redskins are doing something intelligent and intelligible. Over the last couple of weeks there has been a handful of hints that the team's patience with Campbell has limits. If you don't keep Collins, you have....what? Presumably, Brunell is gone, meaning we'd have nothing behind a quarterback who's long on potential and short on results. How someone with Campbell's skill set fits into a West Coast offense is beyond me.If accuracy, getting rid of the ball quickly, and timing is crucial doesn't that description fits Collins much better than it does Campbell? Everything we were told the last five weeks of the season was how smart Collins was. Are we to assume he can't pick up this offense but Campbell can? Please.

Posted by: dha1245 | February 16, 2008 8:37 PM | Report abuse

We do need to start a campaign for Red Snapper to be the number 1 snapper in Madden. Although obviously being the lowest rated player in Madden motivated Ethan to have a pro bowl year so maybe we should leave well enough alone . . .

:)

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

BONG!!!

Posted by: Poopy_McPoop | February 16, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

By the way NFL has a Draft list on their site with the SoS's for each team. I would like to note that we are the playoff team who had the toughest SoS Dallas and NYG tie for no 2 of playoff teams SoS, with a difference of ten less wins.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Are we to assume he can't pick up this offense but Campbell can? Please.

Posted by: dha1245 | February 16, 2008 08:37 PM

The idea is that if this is a rebuilding year, with Campbell you end up with a player whose career is ahead of him-- not someone in his late 30s. Collins is only the shortest of short-term solutions.

Posted by: suz | February 16, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I think they need to look at a late round pick to groom a backup QB, and spend the money on a old WC QB. I always liked Dilfer, he's no star but can manage a game.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Anyone know of any QB's in the draft or guys graduating this year who are not first or second rounders but started a few years at their college and have some mobility?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 16, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

We are our long snapper and maybe our punter locked up for next year. Sweet! That is the kind of consistency that Snyder talked about.

Posted by: skinsfan1234 | February 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Collins' biggest upside is his cerebralnessitification. Let's face it, we're only going to have half the number of offensive coaches as last year; I figure Zorn needs as much help as he can get.
In comparison, recall what Brunell said as he was trying to learn the Saunders offense... "But I don't have a year to figure it out!"

Posted by: daggar | February 16, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Hey, I was trying to find Brunell's exact quote and stumbled upon this little gem:
Dr. Saunders, I presume? from September 2006.
Two interesting points:
H. The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.

"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant.

Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan...

#. Suddenly, he's drawing again; same play, different words.

Brown Right 2 Jet Flanker Drive

"Bill Walsh's West Coast version," he explains, hoping the visitor will recognize the difference. He doesn't.

"He's told the flanker what to do, but no one else; they have to memorize their routes," Saunders explained. "We tell everybody what to do on every play, yet our verbiage is short and simple."

So, in my mind the QB has to know everything about every play anyway... It sounds like the transition to WCO is going to put a lot more pressure on everyone else.

Posted by: daggar | February 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

I have already posted that I think for the same $$ Todd goes elsewhere, if elsewhere runs Weird Al's 700pg Offense.

That said, smart dude and cool under pressure, from what we have seen, and can co-exist with JC, so I would be happy to have him back. Not going to outbid anyone for him though, I would think.

What vets, other then The Dilfer, are out there who have WCO experience and would not make me puke at the thought of them in a game?

Scampi? Do you have a list for us?

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 08:24 PM

These are free agent quarterbacks this year. None seem to jump out at me as a WCO guy. I'll keep looking for possible trades.

Derek Anderson (U) Cleveland
2. Rex Grossman (U) Chicago
3. Cleo Lemon (U) Miami
4. Daunte Culpepper (U) Oakland
5. Shaun Hill (U) San Francisco (re-signed)
6. Billy Volek (U) San Diego
7. Todd Collins (U) Washington
8. Chris Redman (U) Atlanta
9. Josh McCown (U) Oakland
10. Ryan Fitzpatrick, (R) Cincinnati
11. Tim Rattay, (U) Arizona
12. Tim Hasselbeck, (U) Arizona
13. Jared Lorenzen, (U) NY Giants
14. Quinn Gray, (U) Jacksonville
15. Jamie Martin, (U) New Orleans
16. Craig Nall, (U) Green Bay
17. Dan Orlovsky (R) Detroit
18. Marques Tuiasosopo, (U) NY Jets
19. Brian St. Pierre, (U) Pittsburgh

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

aaron Brooks and Jeff Garcia are out there but I don't think we'll be able to take a shot at them. McNabb might get traded but he won't want to be relegated to a backup. wasn't Leftwich just cut? Damon Huard, Tim Rattay? Not exactly "veteran". Any others?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

I can't wait for JC to disprove the doubters....

not quite sure why you don't resign Rock, hope he lands somewhere he can continue his career....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 16, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

If I am the skins, I try to save some dough and let Collins walk...

If I am Todd Collins I don't even consider the skins and the new W2W offense that will be installed.....He will be a Ram I think...than prodigal backup Ferotte can return...Yeah! Groan!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 16, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Just a short note, Brunell has a little experience with the WCO (ie. Jacksonville)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry | February 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Report abuse

(oh yeah, and at Green Bay)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:44 PM | Report abuse

One last one then I'm done for now-Where's Jake Plummer these days?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:49 PM | Report abuse

In Tampa, right? Part of the Little Chucky "I'll use 11 quarterbacks on offense" game plan...

Yeah, retired in Florida. That's what I said!

Posted by: daggar | February 16, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

Scampi - thanks for the list.

I thought that about Brunell, but was not sure.

That list is scary.

I think that increases the chances that Mark stays (granted only for a fraction of what he made last year).

G'night.

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 11:04 PM | Report abuse

Good night all. GO SKINS!!!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

All right, I know I said goodnight, but then I read this from our good friend Dr. Z:

From Mark of Lexington, N.C. Why wasn't Gregg Williams hired as Redskins coach? From what I heard, he didn't want to step into a job in which both coordinators already had been chosen. And he wasn't exactly happy about a three-man triumvirate of himself, Danny Boy and his lapdog, Vinny Cerrato, determining the makeup of the roster. Will Snyder ever sell the 'Skins? You're not going to believe this, but he wouldn't confide in me, apropos of this particular information.

WTF???

Um, he did not want a job where the coordinators were already chosen? Correct my timeline someone, but I am pretty sure the "the coordinators were already chosen" part was after he was either actually out of it or announced out.

I don't get it. There is so much real stuff to slam VinnyDAN on, why do people take shortcuts?

I buy the rest of the analysis though.

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 11:12 PM | Report abuse

Apparently I am not going to go to sleep tonight.

Probably already posted, but really interesting:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ross_tucker/02/11/new.coaches/index.html

Posted by: RedBee | February 16, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse

The deal with a contract for a longtime veteran like EA is the vet min which is probably about $900K with no signing bonus or a small one. Once he makes the final 53 man roster, the entire contract becomes guaranteed. In a special provision to help vet keep jobs in the NFL, his salary then will only count for about half that amount (or even less) under the cap. If they pay more or give him a bonus, then they don't get the special cap deal from the NFL. That's why it's pretty much set that that's the contract he'll get - no need for negotiations or an agent.

Posted by: cdachi | February 16, 2008 08:09 PM

And that's the kind of contract Rock should get. Although you can't really say he's asking for the moon. Maybe Rock is upset about the way the coaching search has gone.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 16, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse

RedBee,

excellent link. In my opinion, I am willing to give Zorn the benefit of the doubt. Gibbs was given total control (at least as much as you can get with Snyder Gollum tag team), paid 4-5 million a year, the ability to get his "true redskin players" llloyd, Brunell, etc, trades for Duckett) 23 asst. coaches and we got 6-10, 10-6, 5-11,9-7 (late season rally and favorable schedule (bears and vikings games were true wins IMHO) so let's see what Zorn really gives us, supposedly the Defense should be the same, except you lose 21, 52, and 22 more or less (21 RIP) Sean Springs is questionable at best, DL is old. LB's are in prime (except 21) collins will not be a great back up in WCO, 17 is coming off injury and OL is old. If zorn kicks butt Snyder is a hero, if he fails, he can say he walked into a mess.

All we can do is wait and pray. I will back zorn because we have no choice and I am redskins for life but I feel like I did when Spurrier got hired, it is either going to be great or a disaster, there is no wiggle room. Sorry for the long rant!

Posted by: stivic | February 17, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

These are free agent quarterbacks this year. None seem to jump out at me as a WCO guy. I'll keep looking for possible trades.

Derek Anderson (U) Cleveland
2. Rex Grossman (U) Chicago
3. Cleo Lemon (U) Miami
4. Daunte Culpepper (U) Oakland
5. Shaun Hill (U) San Francisco (re-signed)
6. Billy Volek (U) San Diego
7. Todd Collins (U) Washington
8. Chris Redman (U) Atlanta
9. Josh McCown (U) Oakland
10. Ryan Fitzpatrick, (R) Cincinnati
11. Tim Rattay, (U) Arizona
12. Tim Hasselbeck, (U) Arizona
13. Jared Lorenzen, (U) NY Giants
14. Quinn Gray, (U) Jacksonville
15. Jamie Martin, (U) New Orleans
16. Craig Nall, (U) Green Bay
17. Dan Orlovsky (R) Detroit
18. Marques Tuiasosopo, (U) NY Jets
19. Brian St. Pierre, (U) Pittsburgh

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:16 PM

Zorn has already proved he can coach up a Hasselback. Sign Tim.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 17, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse

If I am Todd Collins I don't even consider the skins and the new W2W offense that will be installed.....He will be a Ram I think...than prodigal backup Ferotte can return...Yeah! Groan!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 16, 2008 10:33 PM

Todd might join Al at the Rams, but so might Trent Green. Todd might not like the prospect of sitting behind Green again. But I wouldn't mind Gus Frerotte as a backup QB.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Jets | Coles wants new contract
Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:19:42 -0800

Dave Hutchinson, of the Newark Star-Ledger, reports New York Jets WR Laveranues Coles said the organization has "lied" to him and "strung him along" the past two seasons regarding a long-term contract. Coles said if the team doesn't want to make a long-term commitment to him, he would like to be able to seek a long-term deal with another team. He added he would not report for the start of the team's offseason workout program next month.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 17, 2008 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Summary of the Al Saunders Offense:

1) Incorporates a strong running game when available with a strategic passing attack (Joe Gibbs' variant of the Air Coryell offense);
2) Utilizes a combination of short and medium passes with precise routes and timing (horizontal passing game - a basic WCO concept);
3) Utilizes some deep pass patterns to spread the defense or as an element of surprise (vertical passing game - an Air Coryell concept)
4) Uses gimmick/gadget plays as an element of surprise

Summary of the Jim Zorn offense, based on his early comments and past history):

1) Incorporates a strong running game when available with a strategic passing attack (Joe Gibbs' variant of the Air Coryell offense);
2) Utilizes a combination of short and medium passes with precise routes and timing (horizontal passing game - a basic WCO concept);
3) Utilizes some deep pass patterns to spread the defense or as an element of surprise (vertical passing game - an Air Coryell concept)
4) Uses gimmick/gadget plays as an element of surprise (a Jack Patera offensive tactic)

Differences between Saunders Offense and projected Zorn Offense:

1) Different passing terminology
2) About 350 pages.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 17, 2008 3:06 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell rode the short bus to school, people. This is a guy who posted a whopping 18 on the wunderlik test, folks. There is a reason he can't make the right read on the field:

The young man can barely read a book!

I'd love to believe Jason Campbell is going to march out on the turf next season and prove everybody wrong, but geeez, did you all see the same games I saw? He is a mouth breather if there ever was one, think Forest Gump.

Gimme a break, and please spare me the excuses about how he's had to learn so many systems. That's his freaking job!

Furthermore, Jason Campbell proved himself to be a giant cry baby at the end of the year, making excuses for himself, "It's not fair, I'm the guy, Whaaaaa!" Was I the only one that picked up on those pathetic little asides he made to reporters?

Maybe the merlin Zorn can work some magic on him, but I don't know. I say trade him now. Maybe we can fool the Atlanta Falcons into giving us a couple of draft picks for him.

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:18 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell:

Snap, crackle, fizzle...He's that bottle rocket that never leaves the bottle. He's that soda pop you forgot to put the cap back on. He's that quarterback who cost us a shot at home field advantage in the playoffs.

Ridiculous. You know, I'd like to be a starting quarterback in the NFL too, but I'm not smart enough either!

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:32 AM | Report abuse

TRADE JASON CAMPBELL!

(His value drops precipitously after this season.)

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:36 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to be a starting quarterback in the NFL too, but I'm not smart enough either!

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 06:32 AM

Don't you think that intelligence is overrated? Some of us aren't even smart enough to be posting on RI, but we do it anyway.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 17, 2008 6:37 AM | Report abuse

I'd rather have Danny Wuerfell under center, strong arm and all.

No offense, ahem, literally, no offense to all you JC believers out there.

Bring it...

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:43 AM | Report abuse

Don't you think that intelligence is overrated? Some of us aren't even smart enough to be posting on RI, but we do it anyway.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 17, 2008 06:37 AM

Don't be so hard on yourself, Mr. Evaluator.

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:50 AM | Report abuse

Collins is only the shortest of short-term solutions.

Collins might be only the shortest of short-term solutions but he's still a better QB than campbell. What's Campbell got? A big arm and "lots of potential." You'll see --- we're 7-9 next year with mister potential.

Posted by: bestmick1 | February 17, 2008 7:50 AM | Report abuse

Collins might be only the shortest of short-term solutions but he's still a better QB than campbell. What's Campbell got? A big arm and "lots of potential." You'll see --- we're 7-9 next year with mister potential.

Posted by: bestmick1 | February 17, 2008 07:50 AM

So, are you saying that Collins is the shortest of short-term solutions but Campbell is the shortest of long-term solutions?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 17, 2008 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Pod...

That Hennesey Hangover is really kickin' in huh? Look how many dropped balls our receivers averaged this season.

Posted by: rickyroge | February 17, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

if zorn brings in dilfer he will be making as bad a decision as gibbs did with brunnel, a tragic for all skins fans.dilfer was the worst qb i ever watched as bad as the one the vikings have now. grossman would be gross he stinks as well.rattay may be a decent backup but he did fizzle.skins do have a young trainable backup now in the kid from maryland. please no more overpaid washed up qbs.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 17, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

...having said that (rls1041) it is still beneficial to have a veteran backup that knows the system for several reasons.
1) can manage a game in emergency situations
2) can help teach the system to a young, inexperienced quarterback
3) can be a mentor to aforementioned young quarterback
4) should be inexpensive (notice I said should)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell:

Snap, crackle, fizzle...He's that bottle rocket that never leaves the bottle. He's that soda pop you forgot to put the cap back on. He's that quarterback who cost us a shot at home field advantage in the playoffs.

Ridiculous. You know, I'd like to be a starting quarterback in the NFL too, but I'm not smart enough either!

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 06:32 AM

But he's not nearly as bad as the poster who makes the same pointless post three times in a row.

Posted by: mack1 | February 17, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Podspeak your posts instantly ruined my Sunday morning, and not because I was depressed by your "good points"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 17, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Scampbell1975,
There is a draft board having us takining Mario Manningham, WR Michigan.

Have any info on him?

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 17, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

One last one then I'm done for now-Where's Jake Plummer these days?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 16, 2008 10:49 PM

I hear that Jake is fight with TB about money. They say he owes them 5 million (not sure why) so if he comes back it will be with TB.

If Jla is lessening I wish we could get a 'football person' to explain the real difference between Sanders O and the WC Seattle ran. We hear this and that but as has been pointed out no offense is pure WC.

The run plays will be the same we know this from Zorn. Zorn never said, to my knowledge, that his passing game is similar to Saunders he said JC just has to learn a new system.

Posted by: mul | February 17, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Podspeak, what are you smoking? Danny Wuerfel? You must be a gator...should we bring the ole ball coach back as well!

cosmofla

Posted by: squashmo | February 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

I agree with Podspeak that we should strongly consider trading Jason Campbell now while he still has some value. I think he is terribly suited for a west coast offense. The Redskins always wait too long to trade. Imagine what we could have gotten for Lavar Arrington if Gibbs had traded him in 2005. Could we get a 1st round pick for Campbell?

Posted by: kochendj | February 17, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

For Zorn's Sake All!

Give the coach a chance to figure out what he can do with JC before you decide to trade him! You know, for over a year, we've been hearing that Jason can't run Saunder's system, now we're hearing that Jason can't run a system that hasn't even been put in place yet.

The biggest thing that Jason needs to learn, from what I could see last year, is how to get the ball in the end zone when he moves the team into the red zone. That's probably a combination of system, experience and smarts. So, he will have more experience next year, and perhaps in a simpler system, he can find the open man down there....

Posted by: johndinhouston | February 17, 2008 12:17 PM | Report abuse

We are not going to trade JC. Stop talking about if we should or not. Snyder "who is running the team again" got Zorn to work with JC from all reports.

Stop it.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mul | February 17, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

What about Landry? He had a great rookie year. Let's trade him. And Cooley too. And if Heyer ever develops into a starter on the line I say trade him immediately! I'm also curious who we'll draft this year. But only for the sake of trading him.

Posted by: mack1 | February 17, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

SI.com has a picture of Goodell and Robert Kraft with the caption, "Commissioner Roger Goodell's handling of Spygate has some observers questioning the influence of Pats owner Robert Kraft."

Can you imagine how much differently the league and the media would have treated this disgraceful situation if it had been the Redskins instead of the Patriots?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 17, 2008 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Scampbell1975,
There is a draft board having us takining Mario Manningham, WR Michigan.

Have any info on him?

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 17, 2008 10:43 AM

Well, I'm a Michigan fan so I can tell you that he's pretty awesome. Good kick returner too. If it's stats you want then:
2005 27 433 16.0 49 6 6 38 6.3 20 0 0 0
2006 38 703 18.5 69 9 6 19 3.2 12 0 0 0
2007 72 1174 16.3 97 12 19 119 6.3 23 0 0 0
2007 Game Log Receiving Rushing Fumbles
DATE OPP RESULT REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
9/1 Appalachian State L 34-32 3 66 22.0 46 0 2 9 4.5 6 0 0 0
9/8 Oregon L 39-7 8 117 14.6 35 0 1 16 16.0 16 0 0 0
9/15 Notre Dame W 38-0 2 35 17.5 22 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
9/22 Penn State W 14-9 6 61 10.2 20 0 1 3 3.0 3 0 0 0
9/29 @Northwestern W 28-16 10 123 12.3 31 1 4 19 4.8 7 0 0 0
10/6 Eastern Michigan W 33-22 Did Not Play or No Stats Accumulated
10/13 Purdue W 48-21 8 147 18.4 45 2 2 16 8.0 11 0 0 0
10/20 @Illinois W 27-17 9 109 12.1 24 2 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
10/27 Minnesota W 34-10 5 162 32.4 48 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/3 @Michigan State W 28-24 8 129 16.1 47 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/10 @Wisconsin L 37-21 3 113 37.7 97 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
11/17 Ohio State L 14-3 5 34 6.8 10 0 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 0 0
CAPITAL ONE BOWL AT ORLANDO FL @Florida W 41-35 5 78

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Height: 6-0
Weight: 178 lbs. Age: 21
Pos: WR
Class: Junior

REC 72 | YDS 1,174 | TD 12

He's not a real big guy and I think most of us would believe that's the direction we'll take if we draft a receiver but he was michigans biggest playmaker after Braylon Edwards. Fast.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

Can you imagine how much differently the league and the media would have treated this disgraceful situation if it had been the Redskins instead of the Patriots?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 17, 2008 01:40 PM

Exactly right, talent - Skins would have been booted out of the league for the same infractions, because Snyder has few friends in the NFL. But Kraft and Goodell are tight, so they keep trying to sweep the whole mess under the rug. Also, let's not pretend that Kraft is some kind of saint, because he isn't. He probably knew what was going on and endorsed it. An owner who was not complicit would have fired the coach immediately.

Spygate is the football equivalent of the Black Sox scandal.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

The biggest thing that Jason needs to learn, from what I could see last year, is how to get the ball in the end zone when he moves the team into the red zone. That's probably a combination of system, experience and smarts. So, he will have more experience next year, and perhaps in a simpler system, he can find the open man down there....

Posted by: johndinhouston | February 17, 2008 12:17 PM

Here, here!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

What about Landry? He had a great rookie year. Let's trade him. And Cooley too. And if Heyer ever develops into a starter on the line I say trade him immediately! I'm also curious who we'll draft this year. But only for the sake of trading him.


Posted by: mack1 | February 17, 2008 12:53 PM

Hell, why even draft anyone? Let's just trade the picks for practice teamers.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I think the wide receiver from Michigan State will be better than Manningham as a pro. I don't see any of them as worthy of a 1st round pick though.

I've been reading and thinking about free agency the past few days. I will not be surprised if the Redskins try to sign both a WR and a Guard/Tackle. There are several available of each that may come at reasonable prices.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

He's not a real big guy and I think most of us would believe that's the direction we'll take if we draft a receiver but he was michigans biggest playmaker after Braylon Edwards. Fast.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 02:30 PM

Knew you would have the numbers. Thanks. I would still like to see DL in round one.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Knew you would have the numbers. Thanks. I would still like to see DL in round one.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 17, 2008 02:39 PM

Anytime, and ditto!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas is the wide receiver from Michigan State.

Devin Thomas, 6'2, 218

Receiving-
79 receptions
1260 yards
15.9 average
80 long
8 TDs

Rushing-
27 attempts
177 yards
6.6 average
23 long

Also returns kicks.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Why is JLa selling his house when the market is bad? Leaving town? That would make the RI Grinches happy, I guess. Hope JLa and family are just moving to a bigger house. (JLa, if so, make sure it has a designated Blog Den.)

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Ideally, Campbell should only slightly increase his pass attempts from 2007 (32 per game), but will look to increase last year's passer rating (77.6) by improving his touchdown/interception ratio (12/11) and completion percentage (60.0). By getting rid of the ball faster, Campbell should also be able to avoid a few more sacks (21 in 2007) going forward

This should happen anyway with natural growth and development. The one thing that will benefit campbell is the fact that a WCO de-emphasizes pressure on any one player. Campbell may feel more comfortable if that is the case. We just need to get him through his reads faster and make sure he's not afraid to dump the ball off. he seems to me to look to long for the open long pass, it seems that he feels that was expected. I could be wrong, we'll see.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

1) can manage a game in emergency situations
2) can help teach the system to a young, inexperienced quarterback
3) can be a mentor to aforementioned young quarterback
4) should be inexpensive (notice I said should)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 09:28 AM

Definitely agree with these points, Scamp. Someone on the roster has to know the terminology and system, just in case. Collins was proof of the importance of that in 2007. I like the idea of Zorn working with Hollenbach (if Sam has the basic necessary skills), but I think he will also be learning new terminology. (Doesn't Friedgen use a Gibbs-type system at U-MD?)

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Spygate is the football equivalent of the Black Sox scandal.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 02:32 PM

The Black Sox Scandal was proportionately much more devasting to baseball, hence the lifetime banning penalties. I personally think that spygate was way overblown. I am sure that spying on other teams' practices have been the norm for dedades. Every coach has practiced spying and counter spying techniques. (George Allen was famously paranoid, as I recall.) If spygate was considered to be unique or the equivalent of throwing a game then I am sure Goodell would of demanded that the Patriot coaches be banned from football.

Posted by: driley | February 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Both Manningham and Thomas have similar numbers but Manningham did it with better receivers catching balls and a much better run game. Michigan State is a much more passing centered offense so Thomas's numbers should have been greater (in my opinion). Thomas is still good and he's bigger.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Biggest issue I see with Campbell's reads is his ability to identify the coverages before the ball is snapped. The defense alignment he reads should generally eliminate half of his options, making the decision easier after the ball is snapped. Collins seemed to be able to do this very well.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Biggest issue about Campbell having to learn another system is it takes away from his progress in learning to read defenses and coverages. When he can stop thinking about what he is supposed to do (and just do it), he will be able to pay more attention to what the defenses are going to do.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Biggest issue I see with Campbell's reads is his ability to identify the coverages before the ball is snapped. The defense alignment he reads should generally eliminate half of his options, making the decision easier after the ball is snapped. Collins seemed to be able to do this very well.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 03:03 PM

What interests me is the fact that Campbell seemed to do much better in the no huddle. In my mind that makes him more of a rhythm and quick, timing play guy. I know most don't think that but I do. That also helps with those identification problems, gives the D less time to disguise. He may be better at this then anyone thinks. i lived in Georgia when he was at Auburn and saw him play a good bit in his senior season. That was his best year and it was a WCO style. People may be reading into his critics a little too much. He is the son of a coach so he's always tried to addapt his style to the offense. That's like 7 or 8 in not many more years. i think (and this is just speculation) that he may be very comfortable in a WCO.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Loseable Type strikes again, so I'll summarize my lost post.

Campbell + "No Huddle" = good strategy

Gibbs "Balanced Offense" concept = Nonsensical, unless you have Riggins and Monk/Clark to move the sticks.

Take what the defense gives you.

Make the defense stop you before you switch to something else. (If the "No Huddle" is working, why switch to something that doesn't? That's the main reason Gibbs/Saunders was so frustrating.)

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Diddy

From a couple threads ago , I am optmistic because of generaly , I think Jason Campbell is our best hope in developingb into a franchise QB not certainty by any strech but thats what you and I remain hopeful he is the one , big year upcoming for him to prove it or questions will begin to come as to wether or not he has what it takes..... anyway I reposted this which is my usual take on the whole situation, I will continue to review/revisit comments like this using 20/20.....

Turning the conversation back to football and our new coach for a moment,since its the only subject up here i have any qualification to comment on....do like the jibba jabba to read though, so by all means please return to your regular scheduled program (s)..... I really don't think Zorn will have much difficulty adjusting to the coaching aspect of coaching as the man in charge, play calling, running practices, game planning etc even game day stuff, time outs, when to go for it , the man played in the league at the most important position and has coached that position (with success) in the league for the last 7 yrs.....his greatest challenges will be getting JC to play like a big time QB and evaluating and helping in evaluate our roster, the draft and FA's .....who to get , and who to cut and keep........ again my premise and total 100% belief is in todays NFL its all about stability first and stabilty is simply having a very good QB, that lends itself to coaching stabilty, which lends itself to a style of play, which lends itself to what kind of players fit our style.....follow....those are the links in the chain......thats as plain and simple as i can make it, now obviously I know and you know that it is all really complex once you start breaking down the game into all the details, but the basis is really fundemental line play both sides and QB play.......

Posted by: Oldschool | February 15, 2008 12:41 PM

Posted by: Oldschool | February 17, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

We just need to get him through his reads faster and make sure he's not afraid to dump the ball off.
Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 02:53 PM

That might have changed after week 9 but all he did was dump the ball off before that.

The only real problem I saw with Gibb/Saunders was not hitting portis or Betts in stride. We did more of that when Todd was in the game.

There were other "problems" but those were player related. Young QB, hurt WR, hurt O line. If JC was a 5th year QB, and our O line was playing like 2006 and Moss could go deep the whole year I think we would have had a top 5 Offense.

From the story above - I think the last thing we need is more short passes from JC. He is not Matt and Zorn should play to his skills. We will see what happens. But I think we all agree that his still plays like a young QB (no shock there). He has gotten better as he has played except for the Fumbles.

Posted by: mul | February 17, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Make the defense stop you before you switch to something else. (If the "No Huddle" is working, why switch to something that doesn't? That's the main reason Gibbs/Saunders was so frustrating.)

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 03:30 PM

i agree, maybe that's what we'll get with a new head coach. no preconceived notion of how to run the game. If it ain't broke, don't break it. If it's working, don't fix it. (or something to that effect)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Ok we are now in the blog off season.

I like puppies.

Posted by: mul | February 17, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Sorry if I put a funky back spin on your Sunday, chrislarry; tough to catch and shoot a ball like that, I know. Sundays are sacred: A day for rest and peaceful contemplation. Sunday is the day where you step back and listen, ponder how beautiful life is, even the ugly parts, which in my case, comprise my face.

Is it all right if I pronounce Jason Campbell the official Chia Pet of the Washington Redskins? "Add more water, no, too much water, no, put it the window, no, not that window, the other window, no, sprinkle more dust, no, more water, other window!"

ChChChia!


Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

mul,

I'm shocked. You like something? Puppies? I agree, puppies are cute.

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm shocked. You like something? Puppies? I agree, puppies are cute.

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 06:24 PM

mmmmmmm, puppies.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 17, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Is it all right if I pronounce Jason Campbell the official Chia Pet of the Washington Redskins? "Add more water, no, too much water, no, put it the window, no, not that window, the other window, no, sprinkle more dust, no, more water, other window!"

ChChChia!

Posted by: podspeak | February 17, 2008 06:16 PM


Hey, people LAY OFF Podspeak. This is one board intellectual who deserves Props. Allow me to explain:

He makes hip, yet not TOO hip references to recent cultural Icons. In this instance, the Chia Pet. This cleverly combines an intellectual superiority with the man-of-the-people pan culturalism from the "as Seen on TV" school.

But it's no mere Last Comic Standing throwaway reference. He takes it and runs with it. His visual imagery fairly leaps off the page. One can almost see helpless Jason Campbell fans racing from window to window, watering can in hand!

This is gut-slap comedy, but more. so much much much more.
This board is fortunate to have its smattering of football experts (so-called and otherwise) augmented by former English Majors honing their writing skill sets as their resumes make the rounds.

It won't be long before we are forced to bid him a sad adieu as he heads off to anchor a small literary column at a university quarterly.

Or if he so decides, his Snarkiness can pay fine dividends in the world of Sports Journalism.

I could see Podspeak plowing fields where a sense of fair play, basic sports analytical skill, or accurate assessments of athletic ability are subsumed in the interests of writing LOOK AT ME! prose that keeps them hits and angry letters coming.

His work here, denigrating the intellect of Jason Campbell, is superb in that regard. By use of repetition of the unprovable, balanced with pseudo-literaryism, he fools many into failing to notice his primary gift.

Dude has some SERIOUS Cranial-colonistic typing ability.


Posted by: corkczar | February 17, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

Derrick Forst has always been a core guy for the maroon and black. Up here.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | February 17, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Anybody remember Tecmo Superbowl for the NES? It's still a hit. Any major records for me to beat?

HAIL!!

Posted by: GimmyDatPot | February 17, 2008 8:42 PM | Report abuse

For all those James Hardy fans, it seems the Skins have shown him some love. Okay so did have the league. From his audio, he seems to have the determination to be a premium player in the NFL.

2008 NFL Draft Buzz: February 17

Lining Up for a Look

Indiana wide receiver James Hardy runs after the catch during a practice.
AP Photo/Darron Cummings
More than half of the teams in the NFL have already shown some interest in Indiana's exciting wide receiver, James Hardy, and he's ready to do whatever it takes to succeed at the next level after setting both single season and career records by the end of his junior year.
"As long as I have a coach who's willing to stay long hours with me, I'll be there willing to learn," Hardy said during an exclusive interview with Scout.com.
The 6-foot-6, 220-pound wide receiver is a playmaker who knows how to use his body to his advantage in tight coverage. And his timing and leaping ability make him deadly on fade routes and as red zone target.
Hardy told Scout.com that just a few of the teams that have shown interest in him are the New England Patriots, San Francisco 49ers, Pittsburgh Steelers, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Minnesota Vikings, New York Jets, Washington Redskins, Atlanta Falcons, and the Indianapolis Colts.


Posted by: mdvj | February 17, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: mdvj | February 17, 2008 10:04 PM | Report abuse

This is no way to get to 200k, people!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 18, 2008 6:44 AM | Report abuse

This is no way to get to 200k, people!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 18, 2008 06:44 AM

We're resting up. This is a holiday. We will make a big plash when Dan Snyder buys the Washington Post, fires Jasno, and shuts the blog down. Although, then it might be too late.

Look, I have an alternate plan. We will pay some professional bloggers, like DCSweeney and PDiddy to work weekends and run the count up for us. You take up a collection when the PDX contingent gets together, okay?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2008 7:13 AM | Report abuse

Spygate is the football equivalent of the Black Sox scandal.

Posted by: tafka | February 17, 2008 02:32 PM

Comparing intentionally losing to videos that barely give you an advantage?

Funny :-)

Posted by: SonnyFan | February 18, 2008 7:25 AM | Report abuse

I don't think they are comparable, totally different sets of circumstances. Spygate is more like a baseball team that gets caught corking their bats or 1/3 the roster using HGH.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:34 AM | Report abuse

Spygate is more like ... 1/3 the roster using HGH.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 07:34 AM

Only a third? Hell, that's like a five yard penalty for offsides.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2008 7:40 AM | Report abuse

ChChChia!

Posted by: podspeak | February 18, 2008 7:43 AM | Report abuse

This O-guard Welbourne was cut from the Cheifs. Could be a decent signing to cheapish 1/2 year deal to give us Vet depth on line as we groom younger guys....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4747

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 8:11 AM | Report abuse

Are the Chiefs completely revamping their O-line. They released their starting RG. They released their RT and their other RT retired. And there is talk of not resigning their starting C. Wow!

It looks like Welbourne has had some issues the last few years. But I will agree that he might be a good depth signing.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Is this thing on.....hello.....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

t_e, I am, as always, givin it away for free.

I don't get why people think The Todd v.2008 would be a bad idea. Saunders' O was all about the timed pass where the receiver has to be at the right place and the QB cannot wait for the guy to be open ... the ball just had to be there. The Todd was fine on the 3 step drop which, if you remember how Hasselbeck moved the ball on the Skins in the playoffs, is large part of how Zorn has described what he thinks the West Coast offense is.

The acronym WCO has become a real boogie man around here, but I think people are over estimating the difficulty level. The only downside about it is that it requires a period of transition (like anytime you change a coach). The playbook does not yet exist, but it will be written and custom installed for Jason Campbell. The Todd will be just fine (esp. b/c accuracy and timing are important when spreading the ball around ... someone is going to need to be working up the receivers as well).

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

F the WCO peeps!

Their is a new innovation in town the "Washington to Washington" Offense or W2W!!

W2W RULZ
WCO DRULZ

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh it is on. Just nobody at work on this federal holiday to keep the posts coming. Seems like I'm one of the few with the privelege to work today!

The season will definitely be interesting with a HC and OC that neither has ever handled the play calling. As much as I dislike having Vinny and Dan involved in the personnel, it will probably help take some of the burden off of Zorn. Of course, a true, autonomous GM would probably be able to ease even more of the burden. Alas, we have what we have.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

So I assume in the W2W offense, Marcus will be the receiver. Do you know any QBs named Washington? Maybe Brunell works because he was the QB at U of Washington?

oh, f cHRIs LarrY

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

um...daggar I know ur funnin me but its:

washington state 2 washington D.C.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Rock's a good guy and I'd hate to see him go but he's a little slow to be a kick returner. Rock's return average was good this past season but he just didn't seem to have that breakaway speed to take it all the way!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | February 16, 2008 07:14 PM

As a Skins fan that is ridiculous to say when one of the best ever is Brian Mitchell. He wasn't exactly a burner. But if you move decisively and run north/south, you get better results regardless of speed. That's why Randle El isn't running back kicks.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 18, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

cL -- I just want to see Marcus out there on offense, rather than that other guy with a metal grill...

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Rock had a good run with the team, but all he does is return kicks. Sorry to all the Rock fans, but he was a 7th round pick, who can easily be replaced.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Rock had a good run with the team, but all he does is return kicks. Sorry to all the Rock fans, but he was a 7th round pick, who can easily be replaced.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 10:54 AM

Wasn't Tom Brady a 6th or 7th round draft pick? Colston was a 7th round draft pick. Not all are easily replaceable.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Wasn't Tom Brady a 6th or 7th round draft pick? Colston was a 7th round draft pick. Not all are easily replaceable.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 11:40 AM

Great point. When a player is being evaluated in regards to a new contract offer, the player's ability and performance is evaluated not how he was acquired. Once the contract is over, how he was acquired is irrelevant. By stating he is a 7th rounder you are attempting to devalue him by stating that X number of years ago you were only this good.
I'd rather be evaluated on the person I've become today rather than the man I was five years ago.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

FYI: I saw Gregg Williams in Best Buy last Friday with his son. He didn't look too happy so I really didn't say much more to him than hi.

I have a feeling his family will remain in the area - I remember him saying how he liked it here and wanted his kids to finish high school here. We'll see. He did walk out of the store with a HUGE box of something. :) Doubt that will go to florida.

Posted by: JoeyV | February 18, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Any opinions on Jerry Porter?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

At first glance I thought that Porter would be a good get, but I tending to change my mind now I really am not liking how he handled the situation in Oaktown a couple years ago. Especially with a first time HC malcontents aren't needed. Plus I believe the Skins can get the Big WR they need in the draft with the 2nd or 3rd round draft picks.

Posted by: mdvj | February 18, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Most people must work for the government it seems.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Don't work for the government but a lot of times I get paid to do nothing. Pretty much the same thing right?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 1:10 PM | Report abuse

4th, I know the point you were trying to make, but to compare Colston/Brady to Rock just because of where they were drafted is somewhat misleading. Brady and Colston have proven themselves offensively. Rock has been given chances offensively, and there have been 'mixed' at best results.

BC, Rock has become a good kick returner and a good special teams player. How much money do you want to give the guy? All I'm saying is that you can replace him with a late round pick most likely.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Well, Governemnt workers get paid to stay home today. I get paid to atleast show up today.

Greg - I think I know where you're going. What the experts think of you before you get a chance to perform. Rock was a great KR this year. Top 5 in YPR, I believe. you can't knock that.

He's worth $3Mil gaurenteed (over 5 or 6 years). He is one our best special teamers.

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Rock's a good guy and I'd hate to see him go but he's a little slow to be a kick returner. Rock's return average was good this past season but he just didn't seem to have that breakaway speed to take it all the way!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | February 16, 2008 07:14 PM

As a Skins fan that is ridiculous to say when one of the best ever is Brian Mitchell. He wasn't exactly a burner. But if you move decisively and run north/south, you get better results regardless of speed. That's why Randle El isn't running back kicks.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 18, 2008 10:48 AM

Brian Mitchell - Slow for what is conventionally thought of as speed for a kick returner.

Mike Nelms - Glacial for what is conventionally thought of as speed for a kick reutrner.

Nick Giaquinto - Essentially had my speed, and trust me, that ain't good.

Rock is faster then all those guys BUT what really matters to me is he trusts his blockers. Returners who go north have to trust their blockers and that, I think, gives their blockers more faith in themselves.

ARE drives me nuts with his spins, which, granted, make a heck of a lot more sense on PR then KR, but still.

That said, I thought we had already decided Rock was gone. Scampi, didn't you let VinnyDAN know?

Posted by: RedBee | February 18, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

That said, I thought we had already decided Rock was gone. Scampi, didn't you let VinnyDAN know?

Posted by: RedBee | February 18, 2008 01:24 PM

Sorry, I forgot to fill them in.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

In a quick look around the NFC East and West, here is the breakdown of where the KR was drafted:
Dallas - UFA
NYG - 7th
Philly - 4th
Wash - 7th
STL - 5th
SF - UFA
AZ - 5th
Seattle - 3rd.

I just don't see KR as a position that we need to pay out money for. Give Marcus Mason a shot at this. Special teams players can't be that hard to find.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Rock wants $2 mil right? Doea he want that for 1 year? My guess is yes. Well, if no one is willing to pay that do we then make an offer to see if we can keep him?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I just don't see KR as a position that we need to pay out money for. Give Marcus Mason a shot at this. Special teams players can't be that hard to find.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 01:33 PM

But, Rock is not just a KR. He is one of our best special teams tacklers as well.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

But, Rock is not just a KR. He is one of our best special teams tacklers as well.

Again, he's a special teams player. I'm quite certain he's easily replaced....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

all that no coach shabingus was very anti-climatic. I feel let down.

Posted by: Dorf | February 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Report abuse

OK WR - don't forget we have too men people forget.

Espy - F'up knee (do we have any up dates, big OK speed, could be a good 3rd receiver)

Lloyd - Under contract, mad talent (Do you think we can make him the slot receiver and send him over the middle) Ha ha ha

Also we need a back up LT in the worst way.

Posted by: mul | February 18, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

I'm still trying to figure out who this Derrick Frost guy is...

Posted by: johndinhouston | February 18, 2008 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Here's a question. Rock wants $2 mil right? Doea he want that for 1 year? My guess is yes. Well, if no one is willing to pay that do we then make an offer to see if we can keep him?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 01:34 PM

You can't assume that. He might want a bonus which would be prorated over maybe four years.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 18, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Greetings, blog peeps! I hope everyone is having a happy President's Day!

Have we fired our head coach and hired a new one yet?

Posted by: PDiddy | February 18, 2008 2:06 PM | Report abuse

I just don't see KR as a position that we need to pay out money for. Give Marcus Mason a shot at this. Special teams players can't be that hard to find.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 01:33 PM

KR is a position you take for granted until you don't have one. You should have heard the Eagle fans scream after the Packer game early in the season.

They shouldn't just say forget it to Rock. Tell him that they love him and that they value his contributions. For cap reasons they just can't pay him what he wants.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 18, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't Derrick Frost on "Saved by the Bell"?

Posted by: PDiddy | February 18, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The Eagles fans were more likely screaming for a punt returner... actually, couldn't care less about punt returning as much about punt-not-fumbling, IIRC...

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Again, I believe that you can use a late draft pick, or a UFA and get a guy who is just as good as Rock, rather than paying him.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

What round was Brian Mitchell drafted in??

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

great, another year of shankzilla punting.

Posted by: wfchez | February 16, 2008 07:01 PM


As a zilla, I am deeply offended at your disparaging use of the zilla name.

We are a proud people of distinguished heritage. It says so on our letterhead.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 18, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

I believe B-Mitch was a 5th out of Northwest Louisiana....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

NFL Draft: 1990 / Round: 5 / Pick: 130

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Louisiana- Lafayette

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

How much will Devon Hester get? Rock should get less.

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

b mitch was a #5 draft pick out of USL.. now called ULL.. as a qb he held almost every offensive record for the school.
he was drafted without a position inthe pros and became an all purpose back, developing into a return man..

Posted by: seltzer | February 18, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

By John Clayton
ESPN.com

HONOLULU -- Pro Bowls can be a showcase for return specialists. Starters who never played special teams are asked to play on those units, and can create several big plays. But who are the top 10 returners in football? Here's the list:

Clayton's Top 10 Return Specialists
Rank Player

1. Devin Hester, Chicago Bears
Can you come up with a better player than this? He's instant offense for the Bears. He can break a long run for a touchdown at any time.

2. Joshua Cribbs, Cleveland Browns
Cribbs can do it all as a returner. He's as good a punt returner as he is a kickoff returner. Every season, he could be good for 2,000 combined yards.

3. Leon Washington, N.Y. Jets
He was the first alternate for the AFC as the returner. He's particularly dangerous on kickoffs.

4. Darren Sproles, San Diego Chargers
The 5-foot-6 Sproles is electric when he gets the ball in return situations.

5. Ted Ginn Jr., Miami Dolphins
The Dolphins took a lot of criticism for taking him over Brady Quinn in the 2007 draft, but he can break big plays on returns
.
6. Rock Cartwright, Washington Redskins
Rock was rock solid on kickoff returns, ranking second in the league with a 25.8-yard average.

7. Nate Burleson, Seattle Seahawks
To help the team a couple of years ago, Burleson volunteered to be a returner. He's one of the most dangerous in the game on punts.

8. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville Jaguars
The powerful, compact running back is hard to stop on any unit -- offense or special teams.

9. Roscoe Parrish, Buffalo Bills
The Bills' wide receiver led the NFL with a 16.2-yard punt return average.

10. Dante' Hall, St. Louis Rams
At 29, Hall might be an oldie, but he still can be a goodie.

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

If Rock Cartwright was indispensable, wouldn't Danny Smith be fighting to keep him on the roster?

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

2nd Best KR Average in the league. Why do we wanna give that up. Feild position we never had to worry about this whole season when it came to KR yardage.

Also, he was 1st or 2nd in ST tackles.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

2nd Best KR Average in the league. Why do we wanna give that up. Feild position we never had to worry about this whole season when it came to KR yardage.

Also, he was 1st or 2nd in ST tackles.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 02:43 PM

I've got to agree. Big difference starting at the 30 than the 15 or 20 in my opinion.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Two other issues with Rock -
1) Didn't he want a shot as a running back? Maybe that is an issue - no way the Skins are going to promise starting him ahead of Portis and Betts.
2) JLa said that Rock wants Chad Morton money, which was 5 years/$8 million, with last 2 years voidable. What does Rock get currently - vet minimum or something close?

Rock has been a good guy and an asset on Special Teams, but maybe there are too many issues to overcome. With the RB group salary inflated by Portis' contract, replacement cost is probably a factor in Rock's case as well.

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

If the Secret Handshake Club that runs the Redskins was more transparent, maybe we would all know why Rock is being allowed to test the market. Who knows - maybe they are trying to make financial room for Stalworth.

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Rock fills ONE role. He plays on special teams. Look at the guys on that list, Hester is a starting cb, caught 20 passes, returns punts, and kicks, Cribbs, returns punts, and kicks, Parish was 3rd on the Bills in receiving. Most of those guys do both punt and kick returning, and others add to the team offensively.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Seems like we've struck a chord with this Rock thing. That or there just ain't anything going on today.

Greg - I agree that a KR can be found in the later part of the draft. Put you have an established guy who I'm going to guess wants to be here. What would be the salary difference per year? $1 million? More? Then that pick could be used on anther position.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Of course, a true, autonomous GM would probably be able to ease even more of the burden.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 10:25 AM

We have Snyderrato, and he is as autonomous as they get.

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

bcb, I disagree. We have an esablished guy who wants Chad Morton money, and wants to be part of the offense more so than he is know. The part about, "wanting to be here", that is what is unknown, he hasn't come out and said that. Again, no need to pay for guys like this. They can be found anywhere....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Hester is a starting cb, caught 20 passes, returns punts, and kicks

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 03:00 PM

Hester is NOT a cb.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

scamp, good catch, my mistake, but overall I think you see my point. Rock, because of the position that he plays isn't going to get many touches due to the guys in front of him. He's one dimensional. What if we used a 5th round pick on a kr/pr/rb, that way we save ARE's legs for other more important stuff.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

I think every player wants to be a bigger part of the game. It's in their competitive nature. Hell, I stunk as an OT/DT in high school. I knew it and knew that I was not even 1/2 the athlete as the guys ahead of me. I still busted my butt to get into the games.
The desire to be here is the determining factor. If he wants to be a big part of the O then he obviously doesn't want to stay. I can see the rationale of a replaceable cog but I also see the value in getting that spot filled so you can gamble on other positions with a 5/6/7th round pick.
The salary difference between him and a 5th rounder can't be that much of a mountain. Now if the team operated within a set budget for each position, I could see stance to be taken. But the Skins seem to pay money.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

FYI, I'm not in the Rock camp. I think he is a good returner but replacable. My thoughts is that if his contract demands aren't unreasonable(Morton money is unreasonable), then it might be worth signing him. That way you know what you have and can take some chances on other positions later in the draft.
I've seen the $2M number floated around but that could mean a lot of different things.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

"That or there just ain't anything going on today."

That's more of the prob.

Greg - You are right. Maybe 3 out of the 10 fits Rock's current role in whole.

At the end of the day, I think Rock comes back just below Chad Morton $$ ($900K/yr or so)........

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

We have Snyderrato, and he is as autonomous as they get.

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 03:09 PM

Hmmm...Maybe I should have said knowledgeable, respected and autonomous GM. But Snyderrato is as autonomous as they come. "We answer to no one!"

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

I'm a fence sitter on this issue.
1)hard to give up proven results. Good starting field position almost every possession that Rock touches the ball. Important for a new offense (I believe)
2) would be nice to have a guy returning kicks that can contribute elsewhere but
3) No guarantee that a late draft pick can do either, much less both.
4) Money issue and possibly disgruntled employee if he doesn't get the chance to touch the ball on offense.

there are points on both sides of the argument so i guess either way we go we lose and gain.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

34 Rock Cartwright $889,510 salary last year. So we're talking about another $1.1 to keep him at the salary he wants? I don't think thats too much of a stretch, after all, we could probably negotiate to half that say $1.5 and the way we rework for the offseason I don't think the difference will matter much.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I don't really care if Rock stays or goes as far as a player either. I was just trying to get some posts in.....

BUT, he is a great character guy and a true redskin. Only 2 people are in it for the business aspect, and that's Snyderatto and Rock. He should stay for contuinity.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 18, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to see Rock brought back. Not only is he a very good return man and special teamer, but he's got an attitude about him that I love. He gets the whole team fired up. Plus in the few chances he's had at RB, he's done a good job. Had 100 yds against the Rams 2 years ago. If he's asking for 2 mil per season, thats not too bad because you can put most of that into the signing bonus and prorate that over the 5 or so years of the contract. We give everyone more money than their worth, we should try to keep contributors if they are willing to work with us...

Posted by: anotherwes | February 18, 2008 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Wagers on how much longer people are going to talk about Rock.

I say 2 more days with everyone giving there opinion 8 - 21 times.

Barno is going to hit us with 'greatest Rock post' from the last 2 years any second.

O when will VinnyDan do something to entertain the NFL and RI?

Posted by: mul | February 18, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

I think Rock is gone... It's just the nature of the business. When you waste money and overpay for players, this is what happens you can't keep the small key role players for vet minimum...

I see them going a different way and giving Espy/Betts/Mason/FA or draftee a shot at returning kicks and punts...

I like Rock, I don't know that we have anybody that will do as well as he's done on ST's but Mason showed enough as a backup RB and potential returner that makes Rock somewhat expendable... They'll likely need roster spots for other positions and probaly consolidate this one under Betts/Espy/Mason....

Man - the offseason sucks... nothing going on other than the stupid Spygate BS!!! I'm eager to find out how our draft pans out... I hope we sure pass on trading for a Chad Johnson or anybody else that would cost us valuable draft picks... we need to focus on building this team with some key FA acquisitions and a great draft class...

Posted by: EinVB | February 18, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

OTOH, maybe Rock is just this year's version of the famous "Core Redskin Disappearing Act". Snyderrato's motto: "There is no bad publicity".

2005-Pierce
2006-Clark
2007-Dockery
2008-Cartwright?

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: EinVB | February 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

It was only a matter of time before someone brought up poor, poor Antonia Pierce.....WOW.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 18, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

34 Rock Cartwright $889,510 salary last year. So we're talking about another $1.1 to keep him at the salary he wants? I don't think thats too much of a stretch, after all, we could probably negotiate to half that say $1.5 and the way we rework for the offseason I don't think the difference will matter much.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 03:41 PM

But if he signs for the bare minimum then his cap number is less than half the 900K. I think this rule needs to be tweeked. Whereas it helps a player willing to play for the minimum, it can hurt a guy trying to do better for himself. Then again, 900K ain't chump change.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 18, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm okay with letting Rock go, so long as we replace him with a "Champ", or a "Deuce", or a "Night Train", or a "Mack".

There is a dearth of canonical football names on this squad. No offense to "Cornelius" or "Jason" or "Chris" or "Fred", but we need some up the gut, pound the snot out of someone names on the team.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 18, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

And in slides Diddy with some jibba jabba. I personally like "Deuce" or "Mack". My son likes "Mack" because he was in the movie Cars. There's my two Skins fan's votes. Are there any "Mack" FA or college players? We need to get Snyderrato on this. Let's sign us a "Mack"!

Posted by: BCBarney | February 18, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

I'm okay with letting Rock go, so long as we replace him with a "Champ", or a "Deuce", or a "Night Train", or a "Mack".

There is a dearth of canonical football names on this squad. No offense to "Cornelius" or "Jason" or "Chris" or "Fred", but we need some up the gut, pound the snot out of someone names on the team.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 18, 2008 04:29 PM

Well we starting off with some on the coaching staff. Stump and Sherman ( I know that's not a nickname but...)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

...we need some up the gut, pound the snot out of someone names on the team.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 18, 2008 04:29 PM

The beat reporter named his son Rocco.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 18, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

OTOH, maybe Rock is just this year's version of the famous "Core Redskin Disappearing Act". Snyderrato's motto: "There is no bad publicity".

2005-Pierce
2006-Clark
2007-Dockery
2008-Cartwright?

Posted by: tafka | February 18, 2008 04:14 PM

No one is saying Rock is not great and that we don't value him. You just cannot allocate $2M to your KR and 3rd string RB.

My position at the time of the above departures was:

2005-Pierce - "WTF - We will regret this."
2006-Clark - "WTFF - We are really going to regret this"
2007-Dockery - "WTF - what did he do to be one of the top paid OLineman in the NFL? Good decision not to match." Then I thought, typical VinnyDAN shortsightedness, couldn't we have signed him for MUCH less earlier on?"
2008-Cartwright - "That makes me sad. :( Hope Marcus Mason or someone else can help out Betts with the load."

Posted by: RedBee | February 18, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I'm bored and playing GM here.

What would you think of this offer between Washington and Cincinnati:

Cincy:
Chad Johnson
#1 draft pick (2008)

Washington:
#1 draft pick (2008)
#1 draft pick (2009)
#2 draft pick (2008)

What do you think? We could move up to the #9 spot, possibly get a killer DE or DT, lose the 2nd round pick (which would likely be allocated on a WR).

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

...maybe throw in Cornelius Griffin since they need help at DT there...

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

TDawg, I think you've lost your mind. With the age of our team we need to start adding youth via the draft.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse

True, we do need to add depth, but let's face-- Chad Johnson is one of the top receivers in the league, if we could get him this way, what are we *really* losing? A 1st rounder next year, and I personally think he'd be worth it with Santana at #2 and ARE at #3 and Bug Eyes/ Thrash/ Mix holding down #4.

Moving up in this draft could be nice if someone like Sedrick Ellis fell to #9. That's all.

But I'm with you on adding youth to the draft-- a solid draft could do wonders for the Skins (see Gints).

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

The only thing I think we would lose is 2 potential starters with youth and what if we lose some starters this year that need replacing? First two picks next year would be helpful. Overall not too bad of a scenario if we didn't have such glaring holes to fill (and so many of them). Like the devil's advocate though.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: F_Barno | February 18, 2008 6:43 PM | Report abuse

M. Muhammad cut by bears....6"2...not small...not huge...could he be the cheap vet to add for taller possesion guy?

I am all for NOT drafting a WR. I say lets build depth at gut positions...sign a cheaper vet to add to WR corp and coach up Mix....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 6:45 PM | Report abuse

Who is F_barno?

Just curious...

Posted by: Barno1 | February 18, 2008 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Oh wait, it's Chris Larry.

Shocker.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 18, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

um....nope....wrong again Barno....not me....I always sign my insults.....plus wouldn't want to devalue the "F".......

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

plus, B*rno your like Beetle Juice....say your name to many times and you return...I wasn't letting the name get past my fingertips...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 6:57 PM | Report abuse

M. Muhammad cut by bears....6"2...not small...not huge...could he be the cheap vet to add for taller possesion guy?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 06:45 PM

not a bad thought there. Oh by the way:
Muhsin Muhammad II (pronounced /Moo-SIN/) (born Melvin Campbell)

So if we draft calais Campbell and pick up this guy, we'll have 5 Campbell's. Jason, Khary, Melvin, Calais, and my namesake in the scouting department, Scott. Very interesting

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

PS. Did you know we actually have 3 receivers on the roster taller than 6' 2"? 1 out of 3 have got to be able to play at some point.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 7:09 PM | Report abuse

no didnt realize this....I am small...everyone over 5'8 is "Tall"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 7:13 PM | Report abuse

Me too. 5' 9" here. 150 lbs.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

I guess my 6' 170 lb butt would be almost large enough to play the slot on the skins roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

I am surly big enough to be in the slot on the RI roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

I am surly big enough to be in the slot on the RI roster.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

In fact it would be fun to find another skins blog and challenge em to a game of flag football some weekend. Anyone think that would be interesting? Think we could get the Post to cover it?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

kost and the others that follow my body transformation would be delighted to hear that i'm 6'1" and now 285 lbs. of hearty, fullbacking goodness. i've got the 40 down to 4.7.

unfortunately though, i've been denied matriculation to IU, so i'll either be at Kentucky, Cornell, or Delaware next year (for those of you keeping track). I'll keep you posted!

fullback, out.

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

Okay my ADD is acting up. so ignore my posts if you all like.

But does anyone think Zorn should be aloud to wear a jersey with no pads while on the sidelines or at practices? I think it would be funny to see that.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

285 with a 4.7 40 huh. That's pretty impressive. Hey alex although surly may indeed fit your personality, I'm sure you mean "surely". I think the head coach could probably wear what he wants. What would his # be? 00?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

Well I would have guessed he gets his old No 10. But I think a C works too. But I mean Baseball coaches wear uniforms so why the hell not.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

it was actually 4.78, but i rounded down tee hee. still, that's down a ways from 4.94 where i started 4 months ago!

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 8:16 PM | Report abuse

"I'm okay with letting Rock go, so long as we replace him with a "Champ", or a "Deuce", or a "Night Train", or a "Mack"."

What was dudes name from last pre-season? Anthony Trucks? Trucks is a isht-stompin' nickname - where did he end up?

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 18, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

test

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 8:26 PM | Report abuse

What we need is a LB who can return kicks. Someone peeps be scared to hit. Thats why I liked Rocky, he was once a FB and had that Square build.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 8:27 PM | Report abuse

perfect opportunity for DanVinny to make another "Find" like Rock, we have gotten our money's worth and i can't see spending that kind of cash unless he is given an expanded role, ie kicks and punts and some touches on O.... don't see that happening...I definatly want someone not named EL returning punts next year...an upgrade there is hinden yardage...important in every game.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 18, 2008 8:32 PM | Report abuse

do you think the skins would let me try out?

just for yucks, y'know.

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 8:38 PM | Report abuse

I'm really surprised by the anti-Rock sentiment. It's amazing to me that a player who makes consistent, often game- saving/game-changing plays is considered expendable or easily replaced. IMO he is neither. How do you replace a proven, highly respected leader like Rock with a 6th-7th rounder or an UFA? This is the epitome of the Skins FO inadequacies. Rock should have been identified as a core Skin long ago and his contract extended . Rock is sure-handed, consistently a top special teams player and vital to maintaining what has become a strength of the Skins. Why is it so difficult to recognize him as a key player?

Most consistently good teams have clearly identified roles for players who are solid if not spectacular. Good teams thrive with players like Rock because of their minimal egos and steady, reliable play. Take Kevin Faulk, for example. Not sure if he is the best example, but he comes to mind. Curious what kind of salary he has.

cosmofla

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

Faulks salary is just over 2 mill according to a quick google.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

cosmofla

not sure if the Kevin Faulk comparison is accurate, but here is his 2006 salary according to Fox

Ht: 5' 8" Wt: 202 Age: 30
Born: 6/5/1976, Lafayette, LA
College: LSU
NFL Experience: 9th season
Drafted: 1999 - Rd 2 (46th overall) by the Patriots
2006 Salary: $2,006,160

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?statsId=4695

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 18, 2008 8:51 PM | Report abuse

do you think the skins would let me try out?

just for yucks, y'know.

Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 08:38 PM

TDawg,
I think the NFL has their rules that you must have (x) years of either pro-minor league play or college play. I think the rules are 2 years but not sure. But there are plenty of minor leagues out there and you seem to have the college option.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

More details

Kevin Faulk - From ProFootballTalk.Com - "Kevin Faulk will get $15.05 million over six years from the Patriots, including a $1.95 million signing bonus. His three-year take is $6.05 million." As listed on the NFLPA.Org site Kevin Faulk's salaries are as follows: (2004 - $550,000; 2005 - $1,400,000; 2006 - $1,900,000; 2007 - $1,900,000; 2008 - $2,400,000; 2009 - $2,900,000) His workout bonuses are $55,600, $106,160, $106,160, $106,720, $106,720 and $106,720. For the seasons 2007 through 2009, Kevin Faulk has a $500,000 roster bonus. He also has $250,000 in incentives each season -- NLTBE in 2004 and 2005, LTBE in 2006 through 2009. His cap numbers are $930,600, $1,831,160, $2,581,160, $3,081,720, $3,581,720 and $4,081,720.
April 6, 2005 update - It appears that Faulk redid his deal. For the longest time his 2005 salary was listed as $1,400,000. It is now listed as $540,000. It appears to me that the Pats converted $860,000 of his salary into a signing bonus saving $688,000 on this year's cap but adding $172,000 to Faulk's cap hits in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009.
January 16, 2005 update - Mike Reiss reported in the Boston Globe that Kevin Faulk's 2006 cap number is $2.5 million. I had it as $2.7 million so I am presuming that the $250,000 LTBE incentive is now NLTBE and therefore does not count against the cap.

http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html

Posted by: argh | February 18, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I think that a better person to compare with would be to get the salary of what Chad Morton made. If my Madden games of old were correct he was making 1.5 mill to return punts for us back in the day.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I agree the Faulk comparison is a bit weak, but my point is simply that Rock is undervalued for what he brings to the table. I firmly believe we need him back at a reasonable salary. Why can't we pay Rock decent money, yet we're willing to throw it at the likes of B Lloyd, Archuleta...
Again, this is where the FO is lacking in "football smarts" and would benefit from a solid, experienced GM.

cosmofla

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 9:08 PM | Report abuse

Adam,

I know you are an Eagles fan so I am curiuos to hear your (unbiased) take on the Rock situation.

cosmofla

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Look I am on the keep rock side. I think he needs to come down to closer too 1.8 Mill for the next year with a good chunk in bonuses so that it counts less against the cap.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 9:23 PM | Report abuse

return guys? the cap? sorry for the low production today my peeps, but i got a bad guest in town and her name is this damb flu going around ... i.e., the one they DIDN'T mass-vaccinate everyone with.

also, josh cribbs is better than devin hester ... but neither guy can do much without his wedge. the return game is not about one guy, its about all of them, but actually, the return guy and the four guys in his wedge. hester's wedge just runs laterally and fast.

Posted by: dcsween | February 18, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Come to think of it Betts also was a solid return guy when he took those duties a few times, I wonder if Sween is right with this crazy 11 men on the field wedge theory.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Here is the thing I don't think we want to lose Rock unless we can get someone better returning kicks, hard to do looking at the top 10 list.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

Betts coughs it up too much. I'd be holding my breath if he was back there on KO's.

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 9:49 PM | Report abuse

Again, this is where the FO is lacking in "football smarts" and would benefit from a solid, experienced GM.

cosmofla

I know, I know...a friggin pipe dream.


Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

13 Kevin Faulk $2,006,160

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

Washington signed Morton away from the New York Jets as a restricted free agent before the 2003 season, giving him a five-year, $8 million deal.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

So I guess thats closer to 1.3 mill per year we gave Morton? Rock's worth more than that right?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Closer to 1.6 but I think he's worth that, although maybe not much more. Personally, I'd love to see him stay. I think he's a great guy to have on the team.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Just as an afterthought here's the top 5 team salaries for last year:
1 Panthers $123,707,016
2 Patriots $122,725,423
3 Vikings $121,524,054
4 Cowboys $120,821,036
5 Redskins $120,516,130

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

squashmo, I'm with you. Rock is a "Rock" and a core Redskin and we need to keep him. I heard him say he would love to get a chance at RB, though.

Also heard that if Rock leaves (which sadly will happen) Betts will be the return guy.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 18, 2008 10:11 PM | Report abuse

Odd that most of them are not playoff teams. In fact I always thought the Vikings were one of the cheapest teams?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 18, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

whats up gang?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 18, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

Parrish's contract includes a $1.1 million signing bonus, bonuses of $3.25 million in 2008, $1.5 million in '09, a $1 million base salary in 2009, and base salaries of $1.25 million in 2010 and 2011, plus $500,000 roster bonuses each year.

Devin Hester signed a four year contract with the Bears in July, 2006 which includes $1.264 million in guaranteed bonuses. His base salary in 2007 is $360,000, 2008 is $445,000, 2009 is $530,000. He becomes a free agent for the 2010 season. The contract is worth $2.86 million.

11 Joshua Cribbs $2,354,510

27 Leon Washington $704,250

49 Darren Sproles $200,060

5 Nate Burleson $5,253,080

These are some other returners salaries, mind you a loy of them play other positions as well. Hester's is rather interesting.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

i am pro Rock, and would love to see him stay, but if he gets a chance to play more on offense, than power to'em...

of course you all know if he signs with someone, he will rush for 1200l while portis/betts will get hurt.......and everbody will finally get to see what "mason can do"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

betts returning the ball... makes me cringe

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 18, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

The chiefs used the non exclusive franchise tag on Jared Allen. This means other teams can negotiate with him. If the Chiefs don't match, said team would have to give up two 1st round draft picks. Given that the Skins have a relatively low 1st round pick this year, and hopefully the same next, what are you'll thoughts on the Skins going after the leading sacker in the NFL?

Posted by: mdvj | February 18, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

The Bengals tagged one of their offensive linemen, meaning that their DE Justin Smith is a free (as in beer) agent. He might not be quite as good as Allen, but I'll bet he's within two first round picks as good.

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Besides, if you really want Allen, you negotiate a contract, then go to the Chiefs and say "I'll give you a first and a fifth for you to trade him" and maybe wind up at a first and a third...
(since a "first and fourth" would be the 2010 fourth round pick...)

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 11:13 PM | Report abuse

as I typed that, the Jasno typo of a "fist and a fifth" seemed entirely appropriate.

Posted by: daggar | February 18, 2008 11:17 PM | Report abuse

This is not the offseason to sign a d-end. After what the giants pulled off winning a super bowl basically on the strength of their dline, prices are going to be astronomical. It will be similar to what the corners did last year. Clements contract set a record and it made all other corners (i.e. samuel, bly, winfield) want new deals comensurate with clements deal. Well this year freeney just set a record for d ends, and rightfully so, but that means lesser players like justin smith are going to be getting huge offers once they hit the market. There is a plethora of good d lineman in the draft this year, many of which will still be around late in the first round. I think that is a better way to go leaving more cap room for zornstar to go get some playmakers that fit the left coast scheme.

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 18, 2008 11:33 PM | Report abuse

We need a LT. If our LT gets hurt we are F ed.

With Rocky back we don't need a LB this year.

First three picks should be used on the line.

One big FA this year and then just fill in some gaps.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse

Just some thoughts over this now 3 day old thread:

--Rock Cartwright is NOT expendable. That's one of the biggest problems with this team: the way they minimize the accomplishments and value of the guy who "grew up" a Redskin and has been in your system and does it your way. You can throw all the stats in the world at me, but the guy covers AND returns kicks (ask the Steelers how much that matters), runs the ball well (when given the chance), and has all the intangibles that Gibbs stressed. At the end of the day, he's the same guy as Betts (only smaller) and the Skins should keep Rock since he's going to be the cheaper to keep and there's more trade value in Betts.

--Stop with the Chad Johnson thing. You can't get rid of one cancer (Lloyd) and sign on (for much bigger money, I might add) another. I don't care how good he is, he's older (30, I think), so his best days are behind him and not worth the trouble anyway. This is supposed to be a good draft for receivers, get one that way.

--This team needs to address both lines in a bad way. They are old and injury prone on both lines and need an injection of youth in order to stay competitive. Stop addressing the secondary, the LBs, and for God's sake, no more RBs. You'd be surprised how much better this team would be with great line play on both sides of the ball.

Having said that, it's highly unlikely any of this happens since we've got Beavis and Butthead running the show...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 6:55 AM | Report abuse


We need a LT. If our LT gets hurt we are F ed.

With Rocky back we don't need a LB this year.

First three picks should be used on the line.

One big FA this year and then just fill in some gaps.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 02:16 AM

OLD LT OR NEW LT?

UM I THOUGHT ROCKY WAS OUT THIS YEAR WITH THE INJURY.

WHICH LINE O OR D?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2008 6:57 AM | Report abuse

alex, you mock the infirm with your 11 man wedge quip. over this offseason, keep your eyes peeled for highlight footage of hester. the four guys who make up his wedge separate fairly early and start picking out their guys as they run laterally. hester's trick was that he just kept moving laterally with them to find the gap and then ran for glory.

hester probably led in return scoring, but cribbs had the best yards per return.

also, greg(b), the CB/return guy you were remembering was pacman jones. pacman was more important to the titans as a punt returner than as a cb.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 7:19 AM | Report abuse

Got to mock someone sween.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2008 7:27 AM | Report abuse

Wow, enough with making Rock out to be something he's not. He plays special teams, and returns kicks. THATS IT. Don't kid yourselves into thinking as brownwood put it that he "runs the ball well" because he simply does not.

Again, I ask people to take a look at the top 10 returners according to John Clayton. Look at what EACH of them contributes to their team, and I'll bet that Rock is either 9th or last on that list. He contributes ZERO offensively to this team.

For those saying they're worried that Betts will be handling the KR duties, both he and Rock have the EXACT SAME career average of 23.9 ypr for kickoffs.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

...take a look at the top 10 returners according to John Clayton. Look at what EACH of them contributes to their team, and I'll bet that Rock is either 9th or last on that list. He contributes ZERO offensively to this team.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 08:08 AM

Greg,

Man, you've got a burr under your saddle on this one. The guy is ninth or tenth in the league and you want to dump him?

I could go either way on this, depending entirely on the guy's price. If he can get a better deal elsewhere I don't see the case for matching it. But if he leaves, odds are that his replacement won't be as good as he is -- unless the 'Skins have seen someone else light it up in practice.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

ta, no burr here, rather REALITY. If Rock wants a payraise, and wants to make 2 million, great, but how well did that work out for the Redskins when they gave that kind of money to Chad Morton?? Its called being fiscally responsible. People want the Redskins to adhere to this policy, but only when it pertains to people they don't like. When it comes to players they like, they want to push the rules to the side.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

kost and the others that follow my body transformation would be delighted to hear that i'm 6'1" and now 285 lbs. of hearty, fullbacking goodness. i've got the 40 down to 4.7.
unfortunately though, i've been denied matriculation to IU, so i'll either be at Kentucky, Cornell, or Delaware next year (for those of you keeping track). I'll keep you posted!
fullback, out.
Posted by: TDawg | February 18, 2008 07:31 PM

TDawg,
Delaware hasn't really used a fullback under Keeler......have you been talking to them? Would they use you as a TE? Great school with a good program......let me know if you are coming to UD.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

morton was paid too much but he was just one of the few players the skins signed with big money and all they did was come for the pay not the play. as for b mitchell he played quite a bit on offense as well as returning kicks. the skins have a possible good tall rec. in mix. they do not need really a chad johnson. if johnson was so good why did he play poorly this year? most players that are becoming free agents play their butts off not chad. moosh always pushed off of the cbs that covered him and he got away with it not that good a rec. rock would be a good keeper but i agree with most everyone else not worth a lot of money. maybe they bring back arrington as a backup this year now that gregg is gone. probably get him on the cheap side.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

What exactly is the Rock's price? When Jasno says "$2 million guaranteed", does that mean that he wants a 1,2,3 year deal with $2M signing bonus, or what?
For example, I've got a $2 million guarantee from my employer, but it's spread over about 20 years. And not paid up front.
But other than that, very similar.

Posted by: daggar | February 19, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Stop with the Ocho Cinco talk. Snyder might be able to swallow an $8M cap hit(and throw in a Plasma TV to boot), but that's not how the Bungles roll. He is untradeable for them.

Posted by: daggar | February 19, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Zorn on 980 right now

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 19, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

If johnson was so good why did he play poorly this year?

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 08:58 AM

If by poorly you mean 1440 yards with a long of a 70 yard td catch and an avg of 15.5 a catch. Lets not even mentino more tuchdowns than the Redskins recievers combined.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse

touchdowns and mention ( corrections from above)

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Remember, they are all expendable....Rock is no exception, nice guy, good return man, nothing special..... I think what is unspoken in cases like this is 1. peeps tend to think cause he is a redskin who has made some contributions, he must be a keeper and 2. We have no faith that our front office can find a cheaper, younger better alternative.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 19, 2008 9:10 AM | Report abuse

rock will most likely not be offered much from any other team. also doesnt jim zorn hold the record for the most fumbles by a QB or was it doug williams? it will not affect his ability for coaching i hope.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

if johnson was so good why did he play poorly this year?

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 08:58 AM

Played so poorly? I would kill for a guy that could put up these numbers.These are Chad's numbers last year: 93 receptions for 1440 yards.

SPLIT REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2007 93 1440 15.5 70 8 6 47 7.8 16 0 2 1

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

With Rocky back we don't need a LB this year.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 02:16 AM

LB depth is going to be an issue. McIntosh may have more issues with his knees, though it is good news he only tore one tendon. Godfrey is likely to sign with the Jags. Marcus is on the downside. If we can only bring in one FA I wouldn't mind if it were Briggs.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 19, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

maybe they bring back arrington as a backup this year now that gregg is gone. probably get him on the cheap side.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 08:58 AM

Vinny C said no way they bring Arrington back.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

sams3 is that chads stats for this year or last?

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

i love rock, but i have to agree with gregmarino on the issue of his return. he's a very good return man on kickoffs, and an excellent special teamer. however, special teams isn't really the side of the ball where you can afford to shell out dough, especially for a team with as little cap space as we have. we'll have someone, probably betts, step in more than adequately next year.

and the issue of keeping in-house talent should be directed at players that we develop as key starters/contributers on offense/defense. it's a mistake when you let guys like smoot 1.0, ryan clark, dockerry, and (as much as everyone hates to hear it) antonio pierce get away without re-signing. it's not rock cartwright that we should worry about losing. it's the young guys coming up who have developed under us (montgomery, golston, rogers, macintosh, etc). we need to learn to identify early who's worth keeping, so we don't let them hit free agency with the chance of being plucked out with monster contracts (a la pierce, dockerry). i thought the FO was genius with Betts, and they need to continue with that strategy for the younger guys.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

rock will most likely not be offered much from any other team. also doesnt jim zorn hold the record for the most fumbles by a QB or was it doug williams? it will not affect his ability for coaching i hope.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 09:11 AM

Does Matt Hasselbeck fumble alot? Why would it not happen to him but happen to Campbell. Campbell fumbles everytime someone breathes on him so I doubt Zon can make that worse.

The statements you are making today are some of the worst of all time.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

thanks for the stas scampbell. i still do not believe if he came here he would be that good. i think he would only come here for the pay not the play but i could be wrong. his attitude is detrimental to any team. i do not think cincy will let him go.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse

rls1041, this year

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

rock will most likely not be offered much from any other team. also doesnt jim zorn hold the record for the most fumbles by a QB or was it doug williams? it will not affect his ability for coaching i hope.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 09:11 AM

You're really off today or you just have no clue what you're talking about.
Here's the records, they go on and neither Zorn or Williams are anywhere in the list.

Most Fumbles, Career, 161, Warren Moon, 1984-2000
Most Fumbles, Season, 23, Kerry Collins, New York Giants, 2001; Daunte Culpepper, Minnesota Vikings, 2002
Most Fumbles, Game, 7, Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs vs. San Diego Chargers, Nov. 15, 1964
Most Fumbles Recovered, Career, Own and Opponents' , 56, Warren Moon, 1984-2000
Most Fumbles Recovered, Season, Own and Opponents' , 12, David Carr, 2002

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse

• He said everyone from the WCO tree runs a different variation of it. There never exact.

• WCO w/ attachments tailored to the players on the team....

• Excited about Clinton Portis. He has a "Redskin Attitude".

• Betts runs well too...

• Liked that when Todd had his chance he came to play....

• The offense will be a Rhythm offense

• JC will be able to make better decisions

Posted by: 4thFloor | February 19, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

zorn should be able to teach campbell how not to fumble. he most likely taught hasselbeck very well .

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

chad johnson was disgusting this year, just like he's been his whole career. his supposedly "better" WR partner, TJ Housh, benefited from Chad's double coverage and attention. not to say that TJ's a poor player by any standards, but 85 is a top 5 receiver in this league. and please, nobody compare that nobody brandon lloyd to chad johnson. their talent levels, physical skills, and production are on separate playing fields.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

rls1041, this year

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 09:18 AM

Yeah that was this year. He was third in the league in yards 70 yards less than Reggie Wayne and 53 less than Moss). The previous year he had the title.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th, I'm not lucky enough to get to hear it right now.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Hasselbeck Fumbles
2007-9 (16 games)
2006-3 (12 games)
2005-4 (16 games)
2004-5 (14 games)
2003-4 (16 games)
2002-5 (16 games)
2001-6 (13 games)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:31 AM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell fumbles:
2006-1 (7 games)
2007-13 (13 games)

This says something about the quarterback coach. No young quarterback (or any quarterback for that matter) should hold the ball like he did last year.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

"maybe they bring back arrington as a backup this year now that gregg is gone. probably get him on the cheap side.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 08:58 AM "

rls are you on the AM Jesus Juice again? Please lets put this idea to bed, Lavar is never coming back...to the skins...to the NFL....The NY Times article last year on him said it all.....


Not happenin

Posted by: chrislarry | February 19, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

My last words on Rock Cartwright ... he wasn't just a KR, he also had a ton of special teams tackles. Part of the reason for his high return yardage average is, I think, that he's been playing with close to the same KR package of guys ... they've figured out how to play together. Continuity, maps, such as. If they have to start over (or choose to), odds are, the new return guy will not be able to enjoy the Rock's handicap (by which I mean like in golf, not in wheelchair ramps).

A few of the guys on the roster who rode the "bubble" are there b/c of their potential to be return guys: Eubanks, Espy, and Mason.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Ahh.....like the smell of spring in the air, the inevitable, "I wish they'd bring back Lavar" whine....actually its more like the smell of cow manure in the air.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

My last words on Rock Cartwright ...

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 09:57 AM

This is one where there will never be "last words." If they don't resign him it will be "LaVar, Antonio, and Rock" forever. And if they do resign him it will be "They paid too much" forever.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

ta, yup, thats pretty much it in a nutshell. Pick the phrase you want to get behind:

"Snyder is meddling again, and playing fantasy football signing Rock for that money"

"Snyder has no idea what he's doing. You just can't let guys like Pierce, Clark, Lavar, Dockery, and Rock walk. I'll never spend another dollar on this team"

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

thanks for the stas scampbell. i still do not believe if he came here he would be that good. i think he would only come here for the pay not the play but i could be wrong. his attitude is detrimental to any team. i do not think cincy will let him go.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 19, 2008 09:17 AM

I'm not a Chad supporter and I've said this before but don't believe everything that you see on TV or read in the papers. I live near Cincy and have some friends that know Chad well. He's not that bad of a guy, he wants to win. He likes to have fun and gather attention. He always comes to play. Your worried about his attitude? Consider this: he's on a team where half the players should be playing in the Ohio penal league. Stability is NOT Cincy's strong suit. They don't have anyone to balance out his persona and no one to help calm the waters. Be heaping attention on Chad they're able to minimize the attention that the real problems get. He's never held out or faked injury (eh, hmm TO). Again, I don't think that CJ is the answer for us, but I wouldn't run screaming into the night if we did get him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I prefer the phrase "Snyderatto can't find his ass with both hands and his ass." See, it can be used for either side of the argument.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse

t_e,

I said MY last words ... no way would I suggest last words ever uttered here. To me, Pierce and Arrington are as useful as an old calendar. I've never shed a tear or used ANY past roster moves in my (ongoing, tired, dead horse) critique of The Owner and the EVP ... they present me with new material all the time!

That said, I'm still pro-Rock for as long as he's on the roster.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

You can use that calendar again in seven years. On the other hand, an old map can be very misleading.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse

t_e,

I said MY last words ...

That said, I'm still pro-Rock for as long as he's on the roster.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 10:37 AM

See what I mean? Which were your actual last words? The previous post, or this post? Or the next post?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Another week passes but still everyone is on here griping about something!

You should all be getting your game faces on for the start of the off-season. Dust off your jibba jabba and let's get chatting about fubbal!! (and other stuff).

With beer.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Hello?

Is this thing on?

Posted by: Redcoat | February 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

"I've never shed a tear or used ANY past roster moves in my (ongoing, tired, dead horse) critique of The Owner and the EVP..."

What do you use as a basis for judgment then? Purely speculation on how current moves will pan out? I personally love re-hashing past "mistakes." Otherwise I'd just be unfair....


Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I want a blog opinion.... what is your take on the former Jet/Pat Curtis Martin.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 19, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

And I don't really think that losing Rock will put him on the same level as losing Pierce, Clark, etc. That would be like the Jets putting losing Chad Morton in the same sentence as losing Santana Moss, Randy Thomas, etc. Special teamers aren't exactly the most irreplaceable players on the field.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

psps, I never feel the need to re-hash past missteps b/c they reliably come up with fresh ones.

OldSchool, my recollection of C. Martin was that he was old, battered, and broken ... neck or back injury? Incurably bad wheel (like all the cartilage gone)? Something that said "low to no fantasy value." It was from the year when the Jets just could not get anyone to carry the ball for them ... which meant good numbers for L.Coles and J. Cotchery.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Hey Greg Marino,

Rock's career stats in 91 games:

146 carries, 647 yards (4.4 avg) 6 rush tds, 3 fumbles

That trumps Betts this season:

93 carries, 335 yards (3.6 avg), 1 td, 1 fumble

I'm not saying he's Tomlinson or even Portis, but if he gets more touches, I'd bet he could be a good change of pace guy. I don't know why you hate him so much, but he's versatile player (although not the receiver Betts is) who fits several different needs. You let him go, you have to get another KR, a guy who covers kicks, and is a good 2nd/3rd option at RB. You think we're going to get 3 guys to do that for under $2 million?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

RC, the local papers are saying that the Pats offered Zach a contract. They're not going to be happy, until someone is made into the poster child for concussions, a drooling, brain-damaged shell of their former selves.

Curtis Martin was a great player. I don't know enough of his stats to say whether he's got an outdise shot at the HOF or not.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Greg, if Zach is intent on playing, I hope he goes outside the AFC East so I don't have to see it.

It wouldn't surprise me if that Pats did offer him a contract, they don't care what happens to him once he's done for them, and he could easily replace Bruschi.

Very very sad.

Curtis Martin helped me make the fantasy playoffs a few years back, he was a genuine good (not great) player who often played hurt.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 19, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse

You let him go, you have to get another KR, a guy who covers kicks, and is a good 2nd/3rd option at RB. You think we're going to get 3 guys to do that for under $2 million?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 11:28 AM

The point is that you would already have players to fill in those roles. If the FO deems him capable, you've got Roger Mason who could be the 3rd back. Betts already has experience returning kicks for the skins, and they've already listed him as the likely candidate to replace Rock if he leaves. It's inevitable that someone they bring in this year (through draft, free agency) will have to step in for special teams. I love Rock and would like to see him stay, but if his price tag gets too high, my opinion is that we would be better served putting that money into retaining offensive/defensive youngsters that will be hitting the market in a couple years.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

You let him go, you have to get another KR, a guy who covers kicks, and is a good 2nd/3rd option at RB. You think we're going to get 3 guys to do that for under $2 million?

Brown, don't kid yourself into thinking that Rock is an 2nd option at RB. Secondly, he is a special teams player, so yeah, I bet you could find a undrafted free agent, Marcus Mason maybe who could do it for less.

Not to mention did you just compare Rocks career of 91 games, to Betts's 07 season? That seems fair...or not

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

***Non Skins Post-Contains The Wire Spoilers***


Morning Hamsters,

Can't believe (although I predicted) that Omar would get done like that. You knew those writers would give us the money shot we so desired.

Go Roma-Go Totti!!!!


Now back to your regularly Scheduled programming.

Posted by: Skinz | February 19, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Sorry, should read ".... woouldn't give us the money shot we so desired." All I wanted was Omar to pop up on Marlo and pow!!!

Posted by: Skinz | February 19, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Special teamers aren't exactly the most irreplaceable players on the field.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 11:25 AM

Steve Spurrier, is that you?

Special teams is every bit as important as offense and defense. Any coach worth a damn (thus my tongue-in-check Spurrier reference) will tell you that. So kick coverage/kick return guys are very valuable. Should you pay top dollar for them? No. But a $2 million dollar signing bonus is not top dollar, especially for this team that overpays for everything. If Rock is asking for Portis money, then send him packing. But for the contribution he's making to the team, $2 mil up front is nothing.

And let's stop with the "Rock can't run" arguement. If he's not getting the carries, that's on the coaches. I posted his career stats earlier, and if you give him that kind of run over the course of a season, that's a damn good contribution for a backup. You can have Rock for less than you have Betts; I'd trade Betts and you could probably get back that lost 4th rounder (Jets could use a RB).

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

I love Rock and would like to see him stay, but if his price tag gets too high, my opinion is that we would be better served putting that money into retaining offensive/defensive youngsters that will be hitting the market in a couple years.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 11:37 AM

That's the thing: I don't think his price is too high. And even though Betts could probably return kicks just as well, he can't cover kicks and he's more expensive. You get 3 jobs in one player, and I don't know that you just let that walk away. I just wish this team had the insight to sign guys like that for $2 million and save the "fiscal responsibility" for when they chase turds like Chad Johnson and Lance Briggs.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse

You can have Rock for less than you have Betts; I'd trade Betts and you could probably get back that lost 4th rounder (Jets could use a RB).


There's some good logic.

Trade Betts when his value is lowest. Brown, do you think that when Portis went down in 05, and Betts was forced into the starting role, do you think Rock would have had the same success that Betts did?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

As far as Curtis Martin is concerned. He's the 4th leading rusher in the NFL. I'd say that's HOF worthy. And psps, it's Marcus Mason.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Brown, don't kid yourself into thinking that Rock is an 2nd option at RB. Secondly, he is a special teams player, so yeah, I bet you could find a undrafted free agent, Marcus Mason maybe who could do it for less.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 11:37 AM

Greg, YOU'RE kidding yourself if you think it's wise to rely on guys who weren't good enough to be drafted to keep your special teams from falling apart.

And if you want a fair comparison, here's Rock's stats from the '05 season when he WAS the 2nd option at RB when Betts was hurt (which he was a lot early in his career):

27 carries, 199 yds (7.4 avg) 2 tds, 1 fumble

...and his most productive season in '03 under "Chuck and Duck" Spurrier, when he was their 1st option when everyone else was hurt...

107 carries, 411 yards (3.8 avg) 4 tds, 1 fumble

I'm sorry, but I can't call that bad production.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

And psps, it's Marcus Mason.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 11:58 AM

haha, wow i definitely would not have caught that if it wasn't pointed out to me. i've definitely hit wizards season.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I've come to realize that RBs are secondary to the system deployed and quality of o-line.

The thing that really convinved me of this was that last year for the Fins, Ronnie Brown was leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage when he got injured. We replaced him with (fat) Jesse Chatman who promptly averaged over 4 yards per carry until he got crocked too. Forget the Ricky Williams thing, but then we got Samkon Gado literally 'off the street' and he has 35 carries for 104 yards and 3 TDs at the end of the season.

And this with no passing game so defenses were keying on stopping the run to force dear old Cleo Lemon to beat them...

So I think if the Skins o-line is healthy you could put pretty-much any NFL-quality back behind them and get decent production. Of course an 'elite' back will get you more than that, but any back could give you a decent running game in that scenario.

I guess it depends on whether Zorn thinks he needs a strong running game or not, who knows? Only Zorn.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 19, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse

brownwood, special teams are very important. I never said they weren't. However, your sp. teams are going to "fall apart" just because you plug some undrafted FAs there. We plugged in Anthony Mix in the middle of the season and he made some monster plays on special teams. It takes some decent scouting, but it's not that difficult to find replacement players for special teams. In my mind, special teams fall MUCH more on coaching than it does on one player. Rock is worth re-signing, but not at much more than the veteran minimum.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Trade Betts when his value is lowest. Brown, do you think that when Portis went down in 05, and Betts was forced into the starting role, do you think Rock would have had the same success that Betts did?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 11:57 AM

He might Greg.

If someone told you back when Portis got hurt in '05 that Betts would tie the franchise record for consecutive 100 yard games and get to 1100+ yards for the year, would you have believed it? No, you probably wouldn't. All he needed was a fair chance to play and he showed his stuff.

As I showed you through the stats, Rock never carried the ball more than 107 times. If given the same opportunity Betts had, he might surprise us.

And Betts does have value. Especially at a time when teams like to run with 2 backs instead of the workhorse way.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Greg, YOU'RE kidding yourself if you think it's wise to rely on guys who weren't good enough to be drafted to keep your special teams from falling apart.

Dude, Rock was drafted in the 7th round.

I'm done with this arguement. He's a 7th round pick who plays special teams, not much more.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat

on the money, running back is an instinctive postion, there are probbally a 100 guys available in any given year if given a chance would produce good numbers, great ones are harder to come by but it just isn't a position you "need" a great one.....I posted my question because I was thinking who does my favorite guy to love/hate remind me of and it hit me..... curtis martin, except curtis had more big play potential than CP, but styles and stats (Career) are tracking similar.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 19, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I've come to realize that RBs are secondary to the system deployed and quality of o-line.


Posted by: Redcoat | February 19, 2008 12:07 PM

QFT

Posted by: Skinz | February 19, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat/All

It just goes to show you how replaceable almost everyone on any team is.....at most positions there lots and lots of guys who again given a chance on the right team can really play....ahh but the key is have smart evaluators keeping the flow of not only good young players comming in, but good young players that are a fit for what you want them to do......

Posted by: Oldschool | February 19, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Dude, Rock was drafted in the 7th round.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 12:14 PM

So what's your point? Marques Colston was a 7th rounder too. He got a real chance to play offense. Rock didn't.

Look, if you want to agree to disagree that's fine. Let's just hope that he doesn't go to Dallas and hand us our taints twice a year.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 19, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Coat,
I agree. With the quality of play at the NFL level, its really hard to look at a college player and say how well they will do. Even for established backs like CP, he still depends upon good blockers and good schemes. If our OL had been healthy this year, CP would have been putting up big numbers. Having a good running game would have taken a lot of pressure off of Campbell too.

CP and Betts are both quality backs and with the healthy OL can ring up big numbers, but neither of them is Walter Payton. Those guys are rare.

Of course, big, strong, fast and quick are good too.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Redcoat -

Completely agree with your RB assessment. Very few are true difference makers. Off the top of my head, I can only think of this list:

-Adrian Peterson (most gifted runner i've ever seen, rivaling Bo Jackson)
-Ladanian Tomlinson (best all-around back)
-Brian Westbrook (most shifty open-space runner with great hands and route-running)
-Clinton Portis (great all-around, phenomenal pass protection, unquestioned intangibles)


The reason why I put CP on this list is because he seems to carry this team like no other backs do (except the other guys on the list). Simply put, when CP is on, this team follows him. Most of the time to victory. Other guys are great runners, but could be replaced with similar results IMO (stephen jackson, larry johnson, joseph addai). As much as people love to hate on him, I think Reggie Bush could make that list eventually, in the mold of Brian Westbrook.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Of course the rule changes so favor the passing game today that running is something you do to set up the next pass.

Blocking and "good hands" were alway considered extras for running backs, now they're as essential as speed.

Another reason that CP is the man.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Report abuse

With kick/punt returner, what it really comes down to is: does the other team have to adjust it's game plan to handle a given returner. I don't see any teams fearing Rock Cartright and therefore altering they way that they gameplan. Obviously, Devon Hester requires a whole new game plan, and therefore deserves a premium KR contract. I believe you can plug Betts into Cartright's spot, and get comparable results (consistent "good" field position).

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

I can't listen to people talking about how important Special teams is.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Report abuse

Here's my question: what are CP's odds for hall of fame. It looks like as a RB you need 12,000 yds and maybe 100 TDs makes you a lock. At 26 CP could get 1200 to 1500 on average for next 4 years I would think. That would put him comfortably in the 12,000 yard range. And he would have a few years left of course....for CP HOF probably it turns on injuries, etc.

Posted by: zornskins | February 19, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse


Adam,

I know you are an Eagles fan so I am curious to hear your (unbiased) take on the Rock situation.

cosmofla

Posted by: squashmo | February 18, 2008 09:11 PM

I don't know all the particulars, but I'd think you should make a push to retain him. He's a very solid special teams contributor and a "core" Redskin (whatever that means), so holding onto him helps the team, helps sell players that management rewards player loyalty, and saves some fairly ugly trial and error kick/punt return results (see the Eagles week 1 loss to the Green Bay Packers).

One of the Skins FO skills is cap number magic. I'd think there could/is a combo of a slight/moderate salary increase, some bonus dollars, and a couple of incentive clauses that would get Rock to/near enough to the 2 mil he wants while not requiring a 2 mil/year cap hit.

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 19, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I love ya' Rock, but you ain't worth 2 million....

Posted by: rickyroge | February 19, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

"I can't listen to people talking about how important Special teams is."

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 12:52 PM

Hopefully, you don't need one of those computers that is a reader for the blind ... and you can just "not read" rather than "not listen."

On the field position game (+/- on the change of possession over the course of the game), I'm thinking that +15 is good for about 3 points.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

On the field position game (+/- on the change of possession over the course of the game), I'm thinking that +15 is good for about 3 points.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 01:21 PM

Well, that would have put the Green Bay game into overtime and won us the Bills game. With our team that 3 points seems to mean a lot.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

blog roll call needed;
wanted: real jibba jabba.
Zorn? notguy forlorn.

Posted by: notguy | February 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Report abuse

This guy should be high on the Redskins draft board....

4. *Calais Campbell, Miami, 6-8, 282

A towering, physical force, Campbell has the ability to be a terror at the next level. After a sophomore campaign where he recorded 10.5 sacks and 84 total tackles, Campbell struggled a bit this past season and only managed 50 tackles and 6.5 sacks. But, he had 12.5 tackles for a loss, and that shows his ability to make plays in the backfield. Scouts are intrigued with his size and skills and will be anxious to see how fast and mobile he is in person.

Posted by: redskins0and16 | February 19, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

And if we didn't have those three points it would have affected the Dolphins, Cardinals, and Jets games. Hmmmm.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Nothing surprising from this canned interview, but looking at the picture of the EVP, I can't help think that -- if he IS wearing contact lenses -- he really should think about getting glasses instead (if only to look less like a creepy ice cream truck driver).

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34543

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I believe you can plug Betts into Cartright's spot, and get comparable results (consistent "good" field position).

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 19, 2008 12:42 PM

I think that may be a reach, especially if Betts has had little to no return/coverage duties in the past (keep in mind, Rock is also an excellent kickoff/punt coverage player, not just a return specialist). Most teams run very little full speed kickoff/punt coverage and return drills, so if this ability hasn't already been seen in college or in the pros, I'd prefer sticking with a known commodity instead of trying to save a couple of bucks.

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 19, 2008 1:29 PM | Report abuse

scamp, a change of possession differential (based on special teams play) of +15 yards is actually a pretty big difference ... and can get wiped out in one solid return. If there is alot of scoring, then the stat (pretty much made up by me) becomes less meaningful.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

dcsween, nicely done I typed listen instead of read. You are a true american hero.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Among others, the Falcons cut Alge Crumpler last week, mostly it seems b/c they didn't want to afford him anymore. Is there any reason NOT to try to sign him? Sure, he's a seven season vet, but four of those included trips to the Popularity, er, Pro-Bowl. As a "fantasy" player, seems like he's always been the bane of my brief and crappy FF career b/c he put up a ton of points for the OTHER guy. With Cooley and Crumpler, plus one other TE for depth, we'd pretty much be set and could open up another roster spot for more players.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Anyone thought about posibly ARE back to return kicks, hes got alot better speed than rock, alot bigger chance of breaking it. All rock does it follow his blockers just about anyone should be able to do that.

Posted by: SAK2 | February 19, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Also rumors up there in Philthydelphia about Lito Sheppard becoming available for a trade. [Eagles deny this, but duh.] I'm just sayin' ... maybe the oft injured veteran motor of the Eagles secondary could be help the Skins get younger at their position of oft injured veteran motor of their secondary.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Yeah...ARE should be returning kickoffs...he'd be way better than Cartwright.

I never thought Rock was as big a threat as needed.

Posted by: redskins0and16 | February 19, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

scamp, a change of possession differential (based on special teams play) of +15 yards is actually a pretty big difference ... and can get wiped out in one solid return. If there is alot of scoring, then the stat (pretty much made up by me) becomes less meaningful.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 01:31 PM

Oh, I agree! A 15 yard differential in field position is a good bit.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I love Rock and I wont say he isnt worth the 2 mill...

However

I agree that we should give someone else a shot for less money maybe mason... Randel El could do it and we dont have to pay him anymore than we already do...

If we are going to build a "dynasty" we need to focus on a youth movement.

My big question is...

When are we going to find out what this guy can do???

Anthony Mix
Height: 6-5 Weight: 235
40 Time: 4.51

Intangibles played college ball with Campbell

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Alge Crumpler is going to want big money, based on all those years he had inflated stats from being Vick's go-to guy. With Cooley as the main pass-catching threat, the "off" TE needs to be a blocker first and foremost, with little emphasis as an offensive threat. Would Crumpler go for that role? Probably not. Would the Redskins pay much more than the minimum for a blocking TE? Probably not.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Redskins may have Calais Campbell already targeted as a potential draft pick. It almost seems like a contributing factor to the Skins hiring Palermo as defensive line coach. (Palermo coached Campbell at Miami for a year.) Scouts being excited about "unlimited" potential doesn't impress me. There have been lots of 1st round busts who had plenty of potential. Calais Campbell could be another one.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:13 PM | Report abuse

dcsween

I was thinking the same thing about Crumpler. I could see a goal formation of Crumpler, Cooley, Sellers, and big WR to be determined being very difficult to defend.

What are some thoughts on Ken Hamlin. I know he played for the Cowgirlz last year, but before he played in Seattle. He'd help and depth to the SS position.

Posted by: marlonjohn | February 19, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

"... With Cooley as the main pass-catching threat, the "off" TE needs to be a blocker first and foremost, with little emphasis as an offensive threat. ..."

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 02:09 PM

Says who? Why is it a problem to have two blocking TEs who can catch? [By all accounts, Crumpler is a good blocker ... and Cooley is not a bad blocker.] Seems like a great opportunity to "mix things up" and keep people guessing.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

No thanks to Crumpler. Too old, and just on a downward slope.....Give Yodah a chance to do more.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Case FOR Rock Cartwright: Rock reads his blockers well and runs behind them, while Betts loves to fumble on kick-off returns.

Case AGAINST Rock Cartwright: He isn't worth $2 million/year, and he is not going to get touches on offense.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

I wouldnt mind seeing Crumpler here...

Algernon Crumpler
Height: 6-2 Weight: 262

Hard nosed tight end with great hands and I have no doubt he can block...

That being said he is thirty and as stated before he is going to want a payday...

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 19, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Zorn says, "Give me one TE and 3 WRs, and I will be happy most of the time. Give me a RB with a FB blocking ahead of him. And give me a QB who can make quick decisions and accurate passes."

Offensive sets with two TEs? Not very much.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Can Zorns 3rd receiver be MIX??? thoughts?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 19, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

I like what I have seen from Yoder. Didn't I read something about Tyler Ecker "totally resculpting his body" or something? If he's coming along, we don't need to pay Crumpler the money he will surely want......

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

greg

Why so down on vet FA. At the right price they can still add value to the team. The Pats have been doing that for years. Vets who have gained recognition and have not won a superbowl, that have 4-5 years left know that they have to produce for their new team to win a superbowl.

Posted by: marlonjohn | February 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Shouldn't we be getting a new post from Emilio today entitled, "It's Combine Week"?

"Everyone is packing up and headed for Indianapolis. It's time to evaluate talent, swap lies with other teams, and make some early arrangements for free agency. It should be a fun week. The Wash. Post will send the usual staff of brilliant writers along to bring you the best of the combine's activities."

(I think we've beaten the Rock Cartwright issue to death.)

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Also, can't they put Lorenzo Alexander in to play tight end? Let him return kicks too. Helmet schmelmet.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Thirty-something vets who haven't won a ring? Let the Pats sign them. The Skins aren't a player or two away yet. Save the money for the younger talent. Old vets want to come here for the big money - none of them are thinking that this is the place to come and get a ring.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse

There have been lots of 1st round busts who had plenty of potential. Calais Campbell could be another one.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 02:13 PM

He's not a 1st rounder....maybe 2nd rounder...probably a great value in the 4th as his production hasn't measured enough against his talent.

Think Chris Canty (cowboys 4th rd 2005)6-7 299lbs...
PRO: Perhaps the surprise in the Cowboys 2005 draft class was the quick emergence of defensive end Chris Canty. After entering his senior season as a potential first round draft choice.....

Posted by: redskins0and16 | February 19, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Marlon, too many of them have come and gone, and not panned out. I'd rather take a chance on a guy like Yoder, who is here already, and is contributing...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Emilio, you're breaking my heart
Just put up a new blog post daily

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

How about Lito Shepard then?

Posted by: trailblazer658 | February 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

He's not a 1st rounder....maybe 2nd rounder...probably a great value in the 4th as his production hasn't measured enough against his talent.

Posted by: redskins0and16 | February 19, 2008 02:33 PM

Good call, 0and16. Pretty much my thoughts on Campbell as well. He has lots of talent/potential, but hasn't proven he is willing to work hard to excel.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I believe you can plug Betts into Cartright's spot, and get comparable results (consistent "good" field position).

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 19, 2008 12:42 PM

I think that may be a reach, especially if Betts has had little to no return/coverage duties in the past (keep in mind, Rock is also an excellent kickoff/punt coverage player, not just a return specialist). Most teams run very little full speed kickoff/punt coverage and return drills, so if this ability hasn't already been seen in college or in the pros, I'd prefer sticking with a known commodity instead of trying to save a couple of bucks.

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 19, 2008 01:29 PM

Betts had significant return duty in 2002, 2004, and 2005 with nearly a 26 yard per return average in 2005 (including a 94 yrd td). The reach would be saying that he has little to no return duties.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Lito Shepard isn't leaving Philly. No way they will let him go. He is under contract for 3-4 more years. Philly would probably want a 1st round pick for him, and he probably wants a big payday.

No thanks.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Zorn says, "Give me one TE and 3 WRs, and I will be happy most of the time. Give me a RB with a FB blocking ahead of him. And give me a QB who can make quick decisions and accurate passes."

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 02:21 PM

Did Zorn really say something like this or are you making this up? I thought the FB in Holmgren's scheme does alot more than block.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

That should have said, "If Philly decides to try and trade Shepard away", Philly would probably want a 1st round pick.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

On Calais Campbell, I can't say that he's all that or none of that, but I'm surprised at the certainty you all have. How can you say that he hasn't proven he is willing to work hard to excel? He's a junior. Do you even know whether teams had to put two guys on him? At 6'8", seems like a worthy risk if he can take instruction. The initial rhap on Montgomery was that he didn't have a strong "work ethic" (which he subsequently admitted ... that he had never needed to work all that hard b/c he was always bigger and faster than everyone else), but he ultimately did take well to instruction ... and surpassed Golsten in his production.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Report abuse

What I wouldn't give for a new post.....

For the Record, I think Campbell is going to be a player...I'd be happy with him at 21..

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 19, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

This post bores me as well.

What should I have for lunch today?

BTW, I just got one of those cute little Sprint wireless broadband modems for my laptop. I'm sitting at the beach right now. Isn't that exciting? I have to get on a plane to Boston in a few hours. Thankfully, I'll only be there for 12 hours and then it's back to warmer climes. Oh, and trust me, if this wasn't a Seattle beach, there might actually be scenery to look at. And by scenery, I mean...you know what I mean.

Posted by: PDiddy | February 19, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

In the Mack Strong version of the Seattle offense, Mack Strong got more work than Sellars does. In Strong's last full year (2006), he had 33/149 rushing and 29/159 passing. The FB not only gets more touches, but is on the field for more plays. He is used similar to the way Gibbs used to use the H-Back. That reduces the need for a second TE, as the most frequent offensive set has 3 WRs.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Feb. 18, 2008 - 9:47 p.m. ET

The Eagles are denying an ESPN report that they've granted CB Lito Sheppard permission to seek out a trade.

"Any reports that suggest we have allowed Lito or his agent to seek a trade are absolutely and undeniably false," a team spokesperson said. However, a Philadelphia reporter who spoke with Sheppard Monday says the former Pro Bowler planned to approach the Eagles about a new contract this offseason. If Sheppard didn't get it, he was reportedly going to request a trade.

Source: Comcast Sportsnet

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

"This post bores me as well ... I have to get on a plane to Boston in a few hours. Thankfully, I'll only be there for 12 hours and then it's back to warmer climes. ..."

Posted by: PDiddy | February 19, 2008 02:51 PM

We will be sure to re-warm you when there is something interesting to report.

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=867#more-867

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Lito Shepard isn't leaving Philly. No way they will let him go. He is under contract for 3-4 more years. Philly would probably want a 1st round pick for him, and he probably wants a big payday.

No thanks.

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 02:39 PM

Also James Thrash lit him up.... enough said.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

EL DORFO QUIRE UN OTRO THREAD!

AYUDAME CINDY BOREN!

Posted by: Dorf | February 19, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Zorn says, "Give me one TE and 3 WRs, and I will be happy most of the time. Give me a RB with a FB blocking ahead of him. And give me a QB who can make quick decisions and accurate passes."

Posted by: tafka | February 19, 2008 02:21 PM

Did Zorn really say something like this or are you making this up? I thought the FB in Holmgren's scheme does alot more than block.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 02:40 PM

Hey Tafka, still waiting for the answer.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Okay, re-animating hamsters is gross. And cruel. Wow.

Dorf, you know I don't speak Spanish!

Posted by: PDiddy | February 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what Dan and Vinny are doing at the present moment?

I just hope it has nothing to do with Randy (don't make me chock a B*tch) Moss. He is a FA you know and super smart. I would not put it past them.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I wonder what Dan and Vinny are doing at the present moment?

I just hope it has nothing to do with Randy (don't make me chock a B*tch) Moss. He is a FA you know and super smart. I would not put it past them.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 03:29 PM

* Is this supposed to be choke?

* I think super smart is attributed to Gibbs

* What are you talking about?

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Dorf, you know I don't speak Spanish!

Posted by: PDiddy | February 19, 2008 03:20 PM

Neither does Dorf.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Careful with the word 'choke'....

Choke up!

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 19, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

Chock full o' nuts

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Betts had significant return duty in 2002, 2004, and 2005 with nearly a 26 yard per return average in 2005 (including a 94 yrd td). The reach would be saying that he has little to no return duties.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 19, 2008 02:37 PM

I had no idea (Eagles fan, as Captain Jack Sparrow would say). That does put a dent in Rock's negotiating position.

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 19, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the Niners cut Derek Smith (our old linebacker). Wouldn't mind seeing him come back to town for a good price. Definitley would make a good backup, and could possibly fight for a starting job......

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

This is a site I found last off-season, which I saved b/c they seemed to take tons of notes the Combine on which teams were talking to which guys. [This was the place I first learned about Nick Folk, who apparently the Skins spent quite a bit of time with at the Combine last year ... before he ended up drafted by Dallas.]

http://www.newerascouting.com/home/stretching-the-field-nfc-free-agency-impact/#more-167

Anyway, that had an article that says the Skins' FO is "actively seeking to trade" Randel El. I'm not sure WHO these guys are (New Era Scouting), but that bit seemed interesting.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

For Rock, its as much about a roster spot as is it is about the 2M. If he had put up big numbers, he'd get paid.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

As the NFL got more sophisticated in the amount of information that they got on prospects, a couple of companies sprang up to fill this information void. I believe New Era Scouting was one of them. I've heard their name before. I imagine they are a full service scouting service that does some preliminary scouting on tons of players. A lot of NFL teams subscribe to similar services if my memory serves me right.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 19, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Also James Thrash lit him up.... enough said.

Posted by: sams3 | February 19, 2008 03:06 PM

James Thrash lights everyone up. Probably the skins best career receiver since gibbs 1.0.

All kidding aside, who would you rather keep if it came down to it: Rock at a $2 mill salary or Thrashizzle at the vet minimum.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm...Now that I take a look at their site, they seem to be a relatively recent comer to the web. A google search has them in business since 1997. Can't seem to find much mention of them before 2007 though.

Posted by: BCBarney | February 19, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

BCBarney, the format of the site changed significantly from last year. Frankly, I had only checked it to see whether they had any pre-Combine hubbub ... before I found the bit about "players on teams who will affect teams' choices in free agency," esp. that bit about Randel El.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

It's guys like Rock and Thrash (favorites of Gibbs) that should be really nervous.

These guys are core-Redskins players because of work ethic, determination and personal integrity, not because of their highlight reels.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Come on. You KNOW Snyderatto combs this Blog for ideas. The Redskins need a starting CB, at least two LBs as backups, a pass-rushing DT, a young DE. And that's just on D.

On offense this team needs a tall receiver, a fullback and at least two linemen.

And MOST of this blog is arguing about a special teams guy?

Snyderatto, here's what you do: Re-sign Rock as a ST guy and the guy you use MOST OF THE TIME as your KO guy. He won't fumble and he'll bring the ball out to the 30. When you NEED more yardage, use a faster, lighter guy you can pick up in the lower rounds, maybe the CB you need to draft but don't want to risk as a full time runback guy. That way, maybe both will last the season.

DON'T trade for Ocho-Cinco. He's too old, too expensive, too risky, costs too much in draft picks and this team hasn't gotten a top notch WR through trade or draft since the Posse, at least one that hasn't been repeatedly hurt.

Use your #1 pick for the BEST OL or CB. Your #2 for OL or DL, your #3 for whichever you didn't pick with your second rounder. Pick up WRs from the slag heap and cuts, or maybe you'll get lucky with Mix or Espy.

When you realize you've based your draft on advice from a Blog, fire Cerrato and hire a REAL GM.

Posted by: corkczar | February 19, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm. Collins comes in and wins 5 straight games to close this season, including a resounding road triumph over the eventual Superbowl champion. He masterfully displays Al Saunders' offense, an offense that was a top 5 offense for 5 seasons with Kansas City and 3 seasons with St. Louis. Immediately prior to Collins playing, Jason Campbell lost time and time again, consistently failing to close out winnable games.

What do Synder and his enabler/ass kisser Cerrato do? Fire Saunders, demote Collins to backup. How does this make any sense? The purpose of the organization is to win football games, not groom Jason Campbell. Morons. Buy the team back from Snyder!

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 19, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: jibba_jabba | February 19, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

The purpose of the organization is to win football games, not groom Jason Campbell. Morons. Buy the team back from Snyder!

Posted by: Dellis2 | February 19, 2008 04:25 PM

Actually, the purpose of the organization is to win Super Bowls (along with making money). Todd Collins' god-like performance just happened to throw back-to-back picks for touchdowns in a very, very, winnable game in the playoffs. Sorry, but I don't really trust a 36 year-old career backup to last an entire season and take my team to the promise land. Jason Campbell is the future of this franchise, and his development is the only way this team is getting to the super bowl in the next 5 years.

Posted by: psps23 | February 19, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

***Soccer post

Skinz, you out there? How do you feel about the Roma result?

***End soccer post

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 19, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone buy the rumor that the redskins are shopping randle El for a trade? Anyone hear anything other than what was already posted?

http://www.newerascouting.com/home/stretching-the-field-nfc-free-agency-impact/#more-167

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Help!
Must reanimate hamsters.

Where is the hot spoon?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I don't really but it. Why would they bother restructuring his contract if they were just going to try and trade him?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

scamp, the two things might be unrelated. The team MUST get under the cap by some time next week, so restructurings (to amortize bonuses paid out this year over the remaining years) is one way to get the current year's numbers down. A trade would mean dead cap space. Not sure how that works in terms of year's remaining on the contract prior to the trade, but I have this recollection that they were eating dead cap space for Mike Barrow until something like last year or the one before.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

scamp, the two things might be unrelated. The team MUST get under the cap by some time next week, so restructurings (to amortize bonuses paid out this year over the remaining years) is one way to get the current year's numbers down. A trade would mean dead cap space. Not sure how that works in terms of year's remaining on the contract prior to the trade, but I have this recollection that they were eating dead cap space for Mike Barrow until something like last year or the one before.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 05:45 PM

Makes sense, but still, why trade Randle El? I thought he was a pretty good asset, especially since Moss wasn't doing to well most of the season.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

I don't buy it, but I wouldn't second guess the FO either.

He's been a valuable WR.

Let's see, we've got:
Santana Moss
Antwon Randle El
Reche Caldwell
James Thrash
Keenan McCardell
Anthony Mix
Mike Espy
Brandon whatshisname

then, there is:
Billy McMullen
Maurice Mann
Stephen Harris
Burl Toler

I think if you pull ARE out of this equation, things don't look so good it 2008.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 6:00 PM | Report abuse

" ... why trade Randle El? I thought he was a pretty good asset, especially since Moss wasn't doing to well most of the season. ..."

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 05:47 PM

... and his value is as high or higher than it has ever been because of it. [Same thing about Betts in 2006 ... he would have been much more valuable after racking up the late season numbers that he did, compared to his value right now.]

If its true, presumably they not only want someone taller, but also of comparable output. I sense the Skins might have been a little disappointed in him as a PR, but pleasantly surprised by him as a WR.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Any intel on these two FA08 acquisitions?

Billy McMullen
Maurice Mann

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, normally, I'm anti-Czaban, but based on that article, he's clearly been pimping me. I said it before and I'll say it again ... that group of guys hired in March of 2004 are goners, or at least some of them. Maybe cutting Jansen means one of them gets a reprieve. I cannot imagine the angst going through Greg Blache about now ... that March 2004 group includes Marcus, Springs, and Cornelius. Brunell is as good as gone, but it was primarily a defensive crop then. I think most (all, other than maybe Frost and Collins?) will be allowed to hit free agency without a contract offer. As soon as they can after the start of free agency (which I think is the first cap target date), then they start sending out offers.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

There is a simple rule to all this that I think we need to realize. As a team the Coach and GM have to be able to communicate effectively with one another about what players will be used and which won't, if there is a glut of players at a position and you can trade one then you do it.

As much as I like Betts, I think in hindsight Gibbs made a mistake in not seeing what he could get for him. He kept saying we will use Betts and Portis interchangably, I loved that, and was dreaming of the two combining for 2500 yards. But did he? No. I can't explain why any of that happened, maybe Joe did not know himself enough to make the right call maybe he planed CP would be hurt, I don't know.

If you are looking for a spell back use a spell back, Betts at the beginning of last year was showing starter potential and could have been traded for some other commodity.

So now lets look at El? Similar situation, does Zorn think that he wants El as a No 2-3 WR if not he should trade him if he wants to keep him then do that too. If he wants to keep him he better use him if he wont he shouldn't.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2008 6:16 PM | Report abuse

Billy McMullen

SPLIT REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2006 23 307 13.3 40 2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
Career 45 601 13.4 40 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 1 1

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Redskins signed WR Maurice Mann.

Mann has only played in one game since getting drafted in 2004, and spent 2007 playing in Canada. He's facing an uphill battle to make the roster in Washington.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Mann, Maurice WR 6-1 190 1 Nevada 09-14-1982

McMullen, Billy WR 6-4 215 4 Virginia 03-08-1980

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

The only names of those recent free agent pickups that I had ever heard anything about were McMullen and Eric Shelton.

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

I wonder whether Tyler Ecker has "totally resculpted" his hair. http://www.redskins.com/team/profile.jsp?id=341

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

He looks like the first Emo footballer

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins have signed 13 players to their offseason roster: DEs Tommy Davis and Kevin Huntley; DBs Byron Westbrook, John Eubanks, Eddie Jackson and Cedrick Holt; WRs Maurice Mann, Burl Toler and Billy McMullen; RBs Marcus Mason and Eric Shelton and LBs Danny Verdun-Wheeler and Rian Wallace.
(Updated 02/13/2008).

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

72 Davis, Tommy DE 6-2 257 1 North Carolina 10-18-1982
No pro record.

2004 - Junior season
Started all 12 games at defensive end • Had 48 tackles, including 22 solo stops and 26 assists • Led the team with 7.5 tackles for losses of 22 yards • Also notched three sacks and a team-high eight quarterback hurries • Played one of his best games of the season in the Continental Tire Bowl against Boston College, registering eight tackles, two tackles for loss, one sack and forcing a fumble • Played well in the win at Duke, posting four tackles, including a two-yard sack • Helped limit the Blue Devils to just 234 total offensive yards • Made two tackles in the win over Wake Forest before injuring his ankle •Recorded six tackles against Virginia Tech • Had an outstanding game in the win over No. 4 Miami with four tackles and three quarterback hurries • Made three tackles against Utah • Suffered a hip pointer and left the game early against NC State • Had one assisted tackle against the Wolfpack • Played one of the best games of his career against Florida State with seven tackles (three primary, four assists), including three tackles for losses of 14 yards and a five-yard sack • Posted four tackles, including a tackle for loss against Louisville •Had four tackles and one quarterback hurry against Georgia Tech •Started and had one tackle at Virginia • Made four tackles in the Tar Heels' win over William & Mary.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Verdun-Wheeler, Danny LB 6-2 244 1 Georgia 03-16-1985

Senior Year

Tackle Statistics G Solo Assisted Total Total/G
13 24 13 37 2.85

Tackle For Loss Statistics G TFL TFL Yards TFL/G
13 4.0 4 0.31

Misc. Defense Statistics G Passes Broken Up QB Hurries Fumbles Forced Kicks/Punts Blocked
13 0 0 2 0

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

I wonder whether Tyler Ecker has "totally resculpted" his hair. http://www.redskins.com/team/profile.jsp?id=341

Posted by: dcsween | February 19, 2008 06:28 PM

That's gotta be his helmet, right?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Wo Ho Redskins!

Sorry I just though we all needed a quick reminder why we are here.

Posted by: alex35332 | February 19, 2008 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before - but we need Safety depth and there is a money Safety F/A who can start at either position :

Gibril Wilson

This guy is a serious player and I would not mind seeing him next to Landry.

Just a stoned thought.

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 19, 2008 7:06 PM | Report abuse

Where does this crap come from? No way they want to trade Randle El...Zorn mentioned El in his press conference.....El does a show with Larry Michael and is beloved as a team leader. Not to mention, Zorn was interviewed just last week on Redskins Radio...said he had met El...really liked him and the El was already asking for the playbook.

Zorn was also interviewed on 980 this morning.....he praised Portis....really likes Collins as a backup to Campbell...and said he will have a lot of influence in who we draft.

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 19, 2008 7:50 PM | Report abuse

Where does this crap come from? No way they want to trade Randle El...

Posted by: Lisa_R | February 19, 2008 07:50 PM

This is where this stuff comes from:

http://www.newerascouting.com/home/stretching-the-field-nfc-free-agency-impact/#more-167

and,

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/colum..._pat&id=3244611

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

i don't want them to trade El either, these are just rumors that are printed so we're debating them.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 8:05 PM | Report abuse

Back in the pre-inter-net days, our parents used to tell us not to believe everything we saw/heard on T.V.

Same rules applies to the inter-net.

If someone told you Dan and Vinny Jeff Smokered eachother, would you believe that?

LOL

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 19, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

This was from the Houston Rockets game last week...

http://www.break.com/index/valentines-day-proposal-goes-wrong.html

Posted by: grizlies98 | February 19, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Back in the pre-inter-net days, our parents used to tell us not to believe everything we saw/heard on T.V.

I've said that same thing, just trying to dig up some rumors to debate since JLaC is obviously on some sort of hiatus.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Boy this is dull.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 19, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Old School, but its better than the complete mess up here a few weeks ago.

All the griping and finger pointing.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 8:44 PM | Report abuse

This sux, it's all your fault.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

Washington Redskins
Rock Cartwright RS - The Redskins front office is actively shopping punt return specialist Antwaan Randle El, which increases the likeliness that Cartwright will need to handle dual return roles if Randle El is traded. He has grown into a reliable kick return specialist, but does he have the first step quickness needed to return punts?

This is BS. Again ARE has a big a$$ bonus so not go to be traded.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 9:48 PM | Report abuse

Obama won Wisconsin big, the white guys went for him over Hillary.

VinnyDan sucks.

Posted by: mul | February 19, 2008 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Ok, no fans of Gibril Wilson - well how about :

Justin Smith

? Maybe, come on 'we need a DE' fans - this dude is straight nasty.

FA is a wonderful time of year.

BONG!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | February 19, 2008 9:55 PM | Report abuse

I know you guys think I am obsessed w/ salary cap issues (I am)....anyway I am confused about Brunell. He signed a 7 yr deal in 2004 which implies through 2011....then restructured in 2007 in a way that supposedly reduced his salary cap...but the various salary cap pages don't have him...did his restructured deal get shorter? What gives? How could he restructure in a way that ended his tenure in DC and also left the Redskins with no salary cap hangover? Genuis moves by FO I guess?


Any Capologists out there care to explain?

Posted by: zornskins | February 19, 2008 10:23 PM | Report abuse

Brunell's a free agent

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Here are the free agents

Albright, Ethan
Brunell, Mark (via opt out)
Caldwell, Reche
Cartwright, Rock (via opt out)
Collins, Todd
DeMulling, Rick
Fabini, Jason
Frost, Derrick
Godfrey, Randall
Macklin, David
McCardell, Keenan
Prioleau, Pierson
Pucillo, Mike
Suisham, Shaun

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 19, 2008 10:33 PM | Report abuse

They did a great job with Brunell's restructuring -- 3rd string money, easy to cut him if they wanted to last year, and he's now a free agent.

Posted by: daggar | February 19, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

OK, thanks scampbell and daggar. Still wondering how they did the salary cap houdini move but who cares if it worked.

Posted by: zornskins | February 19, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

You know, that FA list is reasonably impressive -- maybe most of them are "just a guy" at this point, but none of them jump out at you as Warrick Holdman.

Posted by: daggar | February 19, 2008 10:41 PM | Report abuse

"Still wondering how they did the salary cap houdini move but who cares if it worked."

I believe they made him an offer he couldn't refuse...

Posted by: daggar | February 19, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse

They're all replaceable, that's for sure.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 19, 2008 11:46 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe I just read all these posts! What a loser. I couldn't get WP since Sunday and now realize to extent of my addiction.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 20, 2008 12:10 AM | Report abuse

Any Capologists out there care to explain?

Posted by: zornskins | February 19, 2008 10:23 PM

Pretty much as others mentioned, they restructured Brunell last year. My best recollection is that they tore up his old contract and wrote a new contract in exchange for Brunell getting a chance to stay with the team in 2007 at a very reduced price. (There was still some old bonus money to be amortized, as well.)

Here is what JLaC had to say about ut last year:

"Oh yeah, shoot, the Brunell cap hit is now about $3.3 from what I hear, down from $6.7. he gets around the vet. min in base (820,000), and has a June roster bonus that kicks in after mini camp (I believe around $1 million). So, if for any reason the labrum is still a problem and he can't go, the Skins are off the hook if they want to get out; they would carry his camp number through the spring but will have paid him nothing.

Throw in the existing proration from his original signing bonus ($1.5) and, viola, there you have it for a new cap figure. Also, he would get some small roster bonuses just before the season, but no signing bonus and nothing guaranteed."

By Jason La Canfora | February 28, 2007; 7:03 PM ET

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse

"Cartwright is not optimistic about remaining in Washington, and is seeking a deal worth at least $2 million guaranteed, sources said."

Why pay Rock?

Rock can play FB. This position is much more important in the new offense. Rock could back up Sellers.

Other reasons:
1. Loyalty
2. 2M 'guaranteed' is affordable
3. past performance
4. intangibles - character, leadership, etc.
5. value as a special teams tackler

Why not to pay Rock?

Because the FO in their superior wisdom know what's best for this team. Of course, $nyderatto has a great track record that speaks for itself.

Seriously, there is no reason not to make it happen other than he's not Zorn's guy or $nyderatto will get the next Devin Hester. Yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'd give him a three year deal with a 2M signing bonus. If he sucks next year, cut him and take the losses (a one million dollar hit in 2009).

Posted by: bangkokben | February 20, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse

Justin Smith? Sure!

Gibril Wilson? Why not!

Both are nice players and play positions where the Skins could use the help. But one has to consider the salary cap realities.

Almost every team in the NFL has lots of available cap space. The Redskins will have a little, but not much. What that means is that, in Free Agency, just about every team will be able to outbid the Redskins for any available player.

The market for proven DEs is going to be very hot this year, with new contracts likely to set records (high demand, limited quantity). Dwight Freeney of the Colts got 6 yrs/$72 million a few months ago. It's pretty hard to imagine that the Skins could fit a similar number under their cap.

The same is true with all the hot players and positions in Free Agency: Samuel, Trufant, Asomugha, and other CBs will be very very expensive, just like DEs. Linebackers will be pricey, although somewhat lower. It all comes down to the demand for any given player at other positions.

With Gibril Wilson, I could see him talking to the Redskins, and then taking the offer back to the Giants to get it matched. Who wants to leave a Super Bowl winning team?

If the Redskins do anything in Free Agency, I can see them picking up 1-2 solid O-Line players with lesser names at reasonable prices. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Snyderrato make a run at Dante Stallworth, since it appears that the Patriots may let him walk.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse

Regarding that Czaban article cited above:

Digging through JLaC's archives from last year, I was reminded that the Redskins made all their roster cuts in the last few days prior to Free Agency in 2007. There's no reason to think they will do it any differently this year, as getting the cap number straight will probably go to the last minute also. With the Combine starting on Thursday and Zorn hired late in the cycle, roster cuts and salary cap issues will have to wait yet again.

Sorry, Czaban - as usual, you appear to be way off base.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Although it is well noted that Betts had similar stats when he held the job full-time, last year when he filled in for the injured Cartright he had 5 KRs for and average of 21.6 with only two returns over 20 yards. Of Rock's 58 returns (including playoffs) 48 were over 20 yards and three over 40. Hmmmn Rock's 83% or Betts 40%. Even Hester only returns kicks more than 20 yards 47% of the time.

The question is: Do you want the consistency of Cartwright or the flash of Antonio Brown?

Posted by: bangkokben | February 20, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Now having made my case for Rock, it wouldn't surprise me whole lot if the KR - whether it be Cartwright, Betts or someone else - has a less productive season. The reason: the 'skins have had basically the same guys blocking on this unit for the last three seasons. Most of these guys will likely be camp cuts because the new coach will need new bubble guys. Just the nature of NFL. Between Marty and Gibbs 2.2, the 'skins would have a roster turnover of about 30-40% a year. Hopefully this year it will be closer the 30%.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 20, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Here is the bad salary cap news for 2008 - it will cost less to cut the following players this year than to keep them:

Shawn Springs
Marcus Washington
Phillip Daniels
Cornelius Griffin

(Todd Wade is also on this list but who will miss him?)


Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 1:03 AM | Report abuse

He guys good to see some blog peeps back in action.

This blog is not keeping up with the Political peeps at all.

Mr. Crickets can you locate a backup LT (offensive line). Maybe a 3rd round guy or a FA.

Posted by: mul | February 20, 2008 1:47 AM | Report abuse

Here are some unofficial cap numbers and savings if specific players are cut or traded away:

Player - 2008 Salary - Cost to cut - Savings

Springs: $7.5 _ $6.0 _ $1.5
Rabach: $3.7 _ $2.2 _ $1.5
Washington: $6.4 _ $4.0 _ $2.4
Daniels: $3.8 _ $1.9 _ $1.9
Betts: $3.4 _ $2.1 _ $1.3
Griffin: $6.2 _ $4.5 _ $1.7
Wade: $3.0 _ #2.5 _ $0.5

So, if you cut or traded all of these players away in the next two weeks, you would lower the salary cap by a total of $10.8 million for 2008, with no dead cap money in 2009

(This is just a statement of facts, not a position of advocacy.)

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:03 AM | Report abuse

Here are some unofficial cap numbers and savings if specific players are cut or traded away:

Player - 2008 Salary - Cost to cut - Savings

Springs: $7.5 _ $6.0 _ $1.5
Rabach: $3.7 _ $2.2 _ $1.5
Washington: $6.4 _ $4.0 _ $2.4
Daniels: $3.8 _ $1.9 _ $1.9
Betts: $3.4 _ $2.1 _ $1.3
Griffin: $6.2 _ $4.5 _ $1.7
Wade: $3.0 _ #2.5 _ $0.5

So, if you cut or traded all of these players away in the next two weeks, you would lower the salary cap by a total of $10.8 million for 2008, with no dead cap money in 2009

(This is just a statement of facts, not a position of advocacy.)

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:04 AM | Report abuse

F Loseable Type

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:05 AM | Report abuse

For all those folks who (insanely) want to get rid of Clinton Portis, you will be unhappy to know that, barring another contract restructure, it will cost almost exactly the same amount of money to cut or trade Clinton this year as it will cost to keep him. In other words, whether he is with the team or not, you are paying the same amount. Still want to get rid of him this year? Hmmmmm???

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:09 AM | Report abuse

Hey! Let's cut all the old expensive guys on the O-Line!!! Here's what it will cost you in dead cap money for each of them:

Samuels $10.1 million
Thomas $18.0 Million
Jansen $10.6 million

Have you suddenly changed your mind?

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:13 AM | Report abuse

Is Snyderrato really going to trade away Randle El?

Nice - it will only cost $8.8 million in dead cap money. Smart move, Boys.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse

Finally, by our questionable calculations, it will cost about $6.3 million in dead cap money to cut BLloyd this year. Assuming the FO uses one of the two June 1st Exceptions available, BLloyd's dead cap money will be spread over two years.

Affordable? Yes!

Bye, BLloyd!

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:18 AM | Report abuse

Had enough salary cap junk yet? Good! No more tonight!

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:19 AM | Report abuse

The CricketSuperComputer is now searching for a backup LT for Mul. (Searching, searching)

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse

Possible FA acquisition for Left Tackle:

Travelle Wharton, Carolina
6'4, 312, age 26, 4 years experience

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:29 AM | Report abuse

Possible late round draft choice for backup LT:

Demetrius Bell, Northwestern State (LA)
6'5, 301, 5.09 in the 40
Will get bigger/stronger with serious weight room work
Invited to attend Combine this week

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 2:34 AM | Report abuse

Possible FA acquisition for Left Tackle:

Travelle Wharton, Carolina
6'4, 312, age 26, 4 years experience


Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 20, 2008 02:29 AM

He just re-signed with the Panthers. So that's out.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 7:02 AM | Report abuse

Just looking at this roster and reading all the hype surrounding the Combine, this team is in dire need of a rebuilding. I know Snyder would never do that since he's somehow fooled himself into believing this team is close to being a contender, but this team is full of old, overpriced players and they need to take the next 3+ years and just build the roster up with young draft picks.

More wishful thinking here, but I would love to see some of the veteran guys with trade value (Randle El, Randy Thomas, maybe Betts) get dealt for more draft choices. It hurts today, but if the team picks well (another big 'if'), it could go a long way toward building a winner in the immediate future.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 7:11 AM | Report abuse

Trades are pleasant enough ideas, but almost impossible to pull off. Between the cap acceleration, the loss of a high-value player, and the need to pay for a replacement, the "what it's worth" price goes up and up. You end up pricing your player -- say Ocho Cinco -- as "I need two #1 picks to make it worth my while"... which cools interest immediately.
And the way the skins structure their contracts, with a big bubble in year three or five, does not make the deal any more attractive.

Posted by: daggar | February 20, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

For the love of all that is Holy, can't we get a new post? This current one is stale like a fart.....moving on..

Saw a quick piece on NFL Network this morning about a CB from Virginia Tech. Can't recall the name, but he seemed like quite the player. Good versus the pass, versus the run, not afraid to stick his nose into guards/tackles/tight-ends..

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 8:02 AM | Report abuse

So with Springs, if you calculate his salary as follows:
$7.5M salary
-$6M Dead cap if released
=$1.5M cap space savings

Can you get a starting CB for less than $1.5M?

Or rather, can you get a starting CB that isn't named "Speedrumph" for less than $1.5M...


Posted by: daggar | February 20, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse

Greg are you talking about Brandon Flowers?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

scamp, could be, like I said, I didn't catch the name, so if that cat plays for VT, and plays like I described, then I'd say its a match.

Whaddya know about Flowers?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

NFLN also had a segment where the analyst predicted the Skins would take Aqib Talib (a CB) at 21 if they don't draft a DE. I will be so through if they burn another 1st rounder on a DB...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Some numbers:
Tackles G UT AT Tot. Loss Sacks
2004 1 1 0 1 0-0 0-0
2005 13 13 7 20 1.5-6 0-0
2006 13 29 22 51 7.5-41 3.5-28
2007 14 56 30 86 8-24 0-0
Career 41 99 59 158 17-71 3.5-28

Interceptions G No. Yds. Avg. TD LG
2004 1 1 38 38.0 1 38
2005 13 1 15 15.0 0 15
2006 13 3 26 8.7 0 24
2007 14 5 93 18.6 1 49
Career 41 10 172 17.2 2 49

Posted a 300-pound bench, a 435-pound back squat, a 35 1/2-inch vertical jump and a 4.49 40-yard dash in spring testing. (Thse are #'s from '04) Had some injuries. 2004: Played in one game before sustaining a right fibular fracture which sidelined him for the rest of the season ...

I see him ranked around 9 or 10 among corners for the draft.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

scamp, thanks for the post, I could see him in the 3rd round, or a corner in the third round, I just can't see this team with all their needs taking a cb with the 21st pick.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

I would love to see some of the veteran guys with trade value (Randle El, Randy Thomas, maybe Betts) get dealt for more draft choices. It hurts today, but if the team picks well (another big 'if'), it could go a long way toward building a winner in the immediate future.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 07:11 AM

Can you explain how you think this would work? You want to trade three proven players, two of whom are starters, for picks -- fourth or fifth round -- who have a fifty-fifty shot of even making the practice squad. You take a huge hit on the salary cap. And then, what do you have to show for it? And, why would any team want to trade for these players with the inflated contracts that they're carrying?

Rebuilding is what they're doing in Miami or Atlanta. They're cutting, not trading, players whose salaries are greater than their production. The 'Skins, because of the way they've managed the salary cap, don't really have that option. Cutting them counts more against the cap than keeping them.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse

ta, stop using logic, just stop. Thats unacceptable, and you're scaring away people when you do that.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

scamp, thanks for the post, I could see him in the 3rd round, or a corner in the third round, I just can't see this team with all their needs taking a cb with the 21st pick.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 08:28 AM

I agree, we've used how many first rounders over the last few years on DB's? Time to build elsewhere.

And let's remember, logic has no place here.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

Alright T_E,

First of all, the three guys I threw out there are in danger of being cut in a year or two anyway. Might as well get something out of them if you can. Secondly, Randy Thomas wasn't proven when he was drafted, and neither was Randle El or anyone else. You have to give the young guys a shot. If you're building a team for the future, you have to do it on the backs of young talent because they'll be there for the long haul.

The reason the Redskins will always max out at 10 wins under this regime is because they build through free agency, where you'll get 3 years max out of guys who you just got in the middle of their prime. The learning curve (learning a new system in a new city)should come early, not at age 26 or 27.

You mention Miami and Atlanta; the difference between them and us is that the Skins have guys that would be attractive in a trade, those teams are horrible and have nothing. Trades are tough in this league and I realize that. I haven't worked any numbers, but I was just throwing ideas out there.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

First of all, the three guys I threw out there are in danger of being cut in a year or two anyway.

Ok, I'm going to ask you to quantify this statement with something factual to back it up. Otherwise this just gets called what it is, and thats bull-crap.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

Nice to see peeps getting out the calculator working the numbers playing the cut or keep game.....we are really not in great position to go loping a bunch of guys off, we really haven't created much young competition in most spots on the team, we can't cut an older expensive guy cause we have a young cheaper better player in place.... where on our team can you say that? don't try and hand me golsten/monty for grif, he is still our best DT, and we haven't found a 4th guy there for the rotation....so I don't see that now.....as far as the draft is concerened its ok to keep guesing but because we pick so low (21) so much can happen, unless the GOV and AMTTs can work it out like last year when we got landry, but at 21 i don't see how you can narrow it down to one guy..... the important thing for the whole offseason is for Z and the FO to really know what they are looking for (first key to finding something) and make a bunch of good choices rather than getting 1 or 2 good or real good players (like landry) we need lots of stuff, so i want quanty of good players, position's don't really matter.....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 20, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

blah blah blah yak yak yak snark snark snark babble babble babble.....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

As Chris Larry pointed out, Arrington isn't coming back:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/sports/football/16arrington.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Posted by: JoeyV | February 20, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

Hey Brown, I agree that Randy Thomas and Betts might be gone in a couple of years and are getting older. But Randle El is only in what, his fifth year? That's not old, and by the time we get some youth he'll be a vet in his prime.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 9:27 AM | Report abuse

You bring up a good point os, the Redskins have needs on both lines, cb, lb, wr. For this draft to be successful, they need to keep all their picks, and use those picks to get players who can either start on opening day, or be worked into the starting rotation very shortly. I don't care whom they pick first, but rather I'd like to see them make wise, astute choices that are beneficial to the teams future.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Here, here.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I think we should calculate the number of comments per post it takes until this is left:

"I think we should bring back Lavar, his body has had time to heal, GG is gone and we need a player at weak side LB"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"I think we should bring back Lavar, his body has had time to heal, GG is gone and we need a player at weak side LB"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 09:49 AM

and we could get him cheap.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 9:54 AM | Report abuse

How's this, Brownwood --
We sign LaVar to a multi-year deal at the vet minimum and then we trade him for a second round pick?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

ta, why do we have to 'settle' for a 2nd round pick? That just makes no sense. We should do as you state, sign Lavar, and then trade him, and Rock, for multiple first round picks.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

blah blah blah yak yak yak snark snark snark babble babble babble.....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 09:15 AM

I'll take snark for $600, Alex.

Also, Aqib Talib is the top-graded CB at dcsweenscouting.net, a junior who won the Jim Thorpe Award (best Div.1A defensive back this season). Personally, I don't understand why he's rated lower than the kid from Troy (Leonidis something) or the other kid from one of the big Florida schools (Malcolm something, maybe Magnesia). And brownwood, if they burn another first round pick on a DB, you may be "so done," but you'll be back, not a doubt in my mind. Finally, what kind of name is brownwood? Its a nasty image (not that there's anything WRONG with that), so I was just wondering.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 10:32 AM | Report abuse

How's this, Brownwood --
We sign LaVar to a multi-year deal at the vet minimum and then we trade him for a second round pick?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 09:59 AM

ta, why do we have to 'settle' for a 2nd round pick? That just makes no sense. We should do as you state, sign Lavar, and then trade him, and Rock, for multiple first round picks.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 10:09 AM


Don't forget about Betts!

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure chRIs Larry was not being serious about LaVar ... and I'm pretty sure that LaVar is serious about NOT playing again ... Grilliams or no Grilliams (Dale Lindsay or no Dale Lindsay), its about quality of life and the ability to walk, such as. Also, even if he did want to play again, I imagine his issues would be Vinny issues about the presto chango contract he signed that deleted some of the agreed text (LaVar was OK with his agent, but pissed at the organization).

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Seems to me a new thread would be welcome right about now, to freshen things up a bit, get things moving...

Doggone work. I can't even achieve the necessary level of distractedness to summon up a decent jibba jabba discussion starter.

Harrumph.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Red, the plan was to also trade Betts, but he was going to Minnesota for Peterson, and their 2nd round pick.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Ok, I'm going to ask you to quantify this statement with something factual to back it up. Otherwise this just gets called what it is, and thats bull-crap.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 09:05 AM

Settle down, Greg. Since my name is neither Vinny or Danny, I (nor anyone else here) don't have any factual basis other than reading the tea leaves. And when you sign guys to large, exorbitant contracts and those players who were 26 or 27 when you signed them suddenly become 31 or 32, those guys are let go. Randy is on for big money and is over the age of 30. He's also been hurt for much of two of the last 3 years. And right or wrong, I've heard rumors that Jansen, in order to stay here, is possibly being moved to guard. It's just deduction, my man, just deduction.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Only 7:43 AM (here on the West Coast), and already I've sculpted a dinosaur from a miniature tub of Play-Doh that a co-worker left on my desk.

It's going to be a good day.

Posted by: freakzilla | February 20, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

brown, fine I'll give you RThomas, but Betts and ARE are much younger than he is, and Betts in particular signed a very cap friendly deal, just last year. Why would they cut him?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

And brownwood, if they burn another first round pick on a DB, you may be "so done," but you'll be back, not a doubt in my mind. Finally, what kind of name is brownwood? Its a nasty image (not that there's anything WRONG with that), so I was just wondering.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 10:32 AM

It's a combination of last names. So let's get our minds out of the gutter, kids.

By the way, for all of you making fun of my trade idea, I never floated actual compensation for anyone. I'm not saying we'll get the #1 pick for Randy Thomas. But if you get a 4th or 5th for a guy who is likely to be cut in another year or so, I think you do it.

I think it's unforgiveable that this team squatted on the rights to Brunell for another year, when Seattle and Atlanta were genuinely interested in him. They could have had a 5th rounder (again, rumor I heard; no fact to back it up, Greg) for a guy who didn't even get a sniff of the field in '07. Now they've wasted a 3rd rounder and millions of dollars on a guy who gave you about 14 good games in 4 years.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

freakzilla, is that NEW Play-Doh (and the real stuff, not imitation)? Man, could I ever go for a big inhale of new Play-Doh smell ... or better yet, Silly Putty smell. Screw new car smell; gimme new toy smell.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Greg, I only mentioned Betts in reference to a trade because I believe he's got value. I doubt they'd cut him, especially with Portis limping off the field every other play. But considering ARE and Moss are essentially the same player (Moss is a better pass catcher, but both are speed guys who return kicks really well), it's not a bad idea to get something for him and bring in a couple of bigger WRs.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone actually notice what happened to our running game last year when Randy Thomas was taken out of it? Sure, he has had some injury issues, but I gotta believe he still has "it" based on the performance of our run game when he is a part of it.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone actually notice what happened to our running game last year when Randy Thomas was taken out of it? Sure, he has had some injury issues, but I gotta believe he still has "it" based on the performance of our run game when he is a part of it.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 11:00 AM

Yeah, but just like the old saying goes: it's better to get rid of a guy a year early than a year late. Especially when talking about the money Redskin players are paid.

The Skins got mocked that first year they let go of Stephen Davis because he had a big year with Carolina when they made the Super Bowl. But he's been on the back of a milk carton since. Does anyone here regret that decision?

I like Randy. And ARE. And Betts. But if you can get some good young talent in return, I don't think you sleep on that option.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I would like to see M. Mason signed to the 53 man roster this season. I think he'll average 4.6/carry, on 45 carries, oh yeah and like 4 or 5 td's

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

"I like Mike" - Joe Gibbs on Mike Espy

if his knee is good, then maybe he could be the return specialist. like Mason, i predict a stellar preseason for Espy. 26 catches, 350 yards, 3 td's, 6 KR, 23.2/return, 8 PR, 12.1/return

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

"I like Mike" - Joe Gibbs on Mike Espy

if his knee is good, then maybe he could be the return specialist. like Mason, i predict a stellar preseason for Espy. 26 catches, 350 yards, 3 td's, 6 KR, 23.2/return, 8 PR, 12.1/return

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 11:15 AM

Are you the Practice Squad Pimp? Or Mason's agent?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I love the smell of new Play-Doh in the morning. It smells like ... victory.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

brownwood - by your rationale, every older player in the league with trade value and a large contract should look to be traded from their respective teams. The Packers should trade Brett Favre while they can, because he's obviously not going to be around for more than a year or two. The Bucs definitely need to get something for Joey Galloway. TO? Good as gone.

Randy Thomas and ARE are both impact starters and make this team significantly better when they are on the field (significantly may be pushing it for ARE, but he definitely makes the receiving corp better). You don't give up proven contributors for future draft picks that may or may not have value for you. It's not as simple as "it's not a bad idea to get something for him and bring in a couple of bigger WRs." You always want draft picks, but not always at the expense of your top players.

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"The Skins got mocked that first year they let go of Stephen Davis because he had a big year with Carolina when they made the Super Bowl."

2 things:

(1) He helped them reach the Super Bowl. That in itself is reason to mock the Redskins. It's like the Patriots getting Welker to help them to the Super Bowl...only we didn't get anything in return for Davis.

(2) Where were we after that? We picked up our young stud RB, up and comer to be our future at running back...what was his name? Oh yea, Trung Canidate. Wow, that was worth it.

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

"The Skins got mocked that first year they let go of Stephen Davis because he had a big year with Carolina when they made the Super Bowl."

2 things:

(1) He helped them reach the Super Bowl. That in itself is reason to mock the Redskins. It's like the Patriots getting Welker to help them to the Super Bowl...only we didn't get anything in return for Davis.

(2) Where were we after that? We picked up our young stud RB, up and comer to be our future at running back...what was his name? Oh yea, Trung Canidate. Wow, that was worth it.

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 11:31 AM

Yeah, they suffered a year and got Clinton Portis. They've had a 1000 yard runner every year since. Real hard times...

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Here are some versitle O-Line FA players who the new coaches know, and who can provide backup and short term starting help until the Skins build O-Line help through the draft.

Full Name: Jacob Adam Bell
Born: March 2, 1981
Cleveland, OH
Height: 6-4
Weight: 295 lbs. Age: 26
Pos: OL
Experience: 4 years
College: Miami (OH)
Drafted: Year:2004 Round:5 Pick:6

2007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 62 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Bell became Tennessee's starting left guard in 2006 after Zach Piller went on injured reserve at the end of October. He had a fine season in relief and has progressed nicely since joining the league. He has experience at tackle, as well, but is best at guard without question. He has lined up at four different spots on the offensive line and does have versatility in that regard. He is a bit on the lean side for his position but has continued to gain strength. He still could use more upper- and lower-body power and bulk, however. Bell is a smart player who goes hard every snap. He is agile, runs well and is a good natural knee-bender. He is a plus athlete who can get out and pull well and hit a moving target at the second level. He moves well laterally and is quick to recover when beaten by quickness. For a lineman, Bell is fast and gets downfield well to spring big plays. He is a very good space player. While Bell has gotten stronger and more powerful, he will never be a mauler and doesn't blow big defensive tackles backwards. This is especially a problem when he allows his pads to get too high when coming out of his stance, which still happens with too much regularity. He also could be more of an aggressive finisher. Bell is an athletic offensive lineman who is coming into his own and is capable of starting at guard for several teams around the league.


Full Name: Floyd Womack
Born: November 15, 1978
Cleveland, MS
Height: 6-4
Weight: 328 lbs. Age: 29
Pos: OT
Experience: 7 years
College: Mississippi State
Drafted: Year:2001 Round:4 Pick:332007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 63 | Key
Alert: D

Comment: Womack is a veteran offensive lineman who is versatile enough to play every position on the offensive line. Womack has very good athletic ability and is solid in the run game. Despite a poor body type and makeup, he shows good leverage play, pop and explosion. Womack does a good job of sinking his hips and moving his feet in pass protection. Womack is big, fairly athletic and extremely versatile. He has played every position except center for Seattle. He has good height, long arms and excellent bulk. He has shed his reputation for laziness and now works hard on the field and is mentally prepared. He has some foot quickness in the passing game, and his long arms help him extend and maintain separation. He is a short-area player who has very good functional strength in the run game. He shows solid pop at the point of attack when he comes off low. He can be explosive when he plays with good knee-bend, but Womack doesn't move very well and isn't technically sound. He isn't athletic enough to regularly play tackle. He gets himself into some bad positions and doesn't recover very well. He isn't a quick-twitch athlete. He is late off the ball and lacks good initial quickness. He lacks good body control on the second level and in space. He has improved his stamina, but he could have trouble as an everFull Name: Jacob Adam Bell
Born: March 2, 1981
Cleveland, OH
Height: 6-4
Weight: 295 lbs. Age: 26
Pos: OL
Experience: 4 years
College: Miami (OH)
Drafted: Year:2004 Round:5 Pick:6

2007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 62 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Bell became Tennessee's starting left guard in 2006 after Zach Piller went on injured reserve at the end of October. He had a fine season in relief and has progressed nicely since joining the league. He has experience at tackle, as well, but is best at guard without question. He has lined up at four different spots on the offensive line and does have versatility in that regard. He is a bit on the lean side for his position but has continued to gain strength. He still could use more upper- and lower-body power and bulk, however. Bell is a smart player who goes hard every snap. He is agile, runs well and is a good natural knee-bender. He is a plus athlete who can get out and pull well and hit a moving target at the second level. He moves well laterally and is quick to recover when beaten by quickness. For a lineman, Bell is fast and gets downfield well to spring big plays. He is a very good space player. While Bell has gotten stronger and more powerful, he will never be a mauler and doesn't blow big defensive tackles backwards. This is especially a problem when he allows his pads to get too high when coming out of his stance, which still happens with too much regularity. He also could be more of an aggressive finisher. Bell is an athletic offensive lineman who is coming into his own and is capable of starting at guard for several teams around the league.


Full Name: Floyd Womack
Born: November 15, 1978
Cleveland, MS
Height: 6-4
Weight: 328 lbs. Age: 29
Pos: OT
Experience: 7 years
College: Mississippi State
Drafted: Year:2001 Round:4 Pick:332007 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 63 | Key
Alert: D

Comment: Womack is a veteran offensive lineman who is versatile enough to play every position on the offensive line. Womack has very good athletic ability and is solid in the run game. Despite a poor body type and makeup, he shows good leverage play, pop and explosion. Womack does a good job of sinking his hips and moving his feet in pass protection. Womack is big, fairly athletic and extremely versatile. He has played every position except center for Seattle. He has good height, long arms and excellent bulk. He has shed his reputation for laziness and now works hard on the field and is mentally prepared. He has some foot quickness in the passing game, and his long arms help him extend and maintain separation. He is a short-area player who has very good functional strength in the run game. He shows solid pop at the point of attack when he comes off low. He can be explosive when he plays with good knee-bend, but Womack doesn't move very well and isn't technically sound. He isn't athletic enough to regularly play tackle. He gets himself into some bad positions and doesn't recover very well. He isn't a quick-twitch athlete. He is late off the ball and lacks good initial quickness. He lacks good body control on the second level and in space. He has improved his stamina, but he could have trouble as an every-week starter.


Posted by: mdvj | February 20, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

You always want draft picks, but not always at the expense of your top players.

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 11:22 AM

First of all, comparing a couple "solid starters" to a legend like Brett Favre is laughable. ARE and Randy are not Redskin legends.

Secondly, you're missing my point. I didn't say trade EVERY veteran for picks. I never mentioned Samuels or Jansen or Fletcher. I love Randy, but he's not a career Redskin like Samuels and Jansen. I doubt those guys are going anywhere. ARE is the same guy Moss is, and why pay for two of the same player? Good teams don't do that.

Third, the whole point of this hypothesis is that the Redskins should rebuild instead of putting a band-aid over something that clearly isn't working. Why wait to cut someone and then replace them with another high-priced (and likely MORE expensive) free agent, when you can get a draft pick and use it get a replacement? It's not fool proof (and nothing in football is), but you give yourself a chance to put together a team to compete for 6-7 years instead of just 2 or 3.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

B-dub26, you can call me both the pimp and agent. funny that you asked because I am forming a new rap group which is sort of a spin of T.I.'s "PSC" (pimp squad click). But mine will be called PPSC. (Practice Pimp Squad Click). I already have my two hype-men and front runners M. Mason and my homie Espy, but we here at totally tasteless records like to refer to him as the "worldwide leader".

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

By the way, for all of you making fun of my trade idea, I never floated actual compensation for anyone. I'm not saying we'll get the #1 pick for Randy Thomas. But if you get a 4th or 5th for a guy who is likely to be cut in another year or so, I think you do it.

I'm with my man Brown on this one. Quite frankly there is no room for a man who is the most agile/skilled gaurd in the NFL. We would be lucky to get a 4th of 5th. We should lower our expectations and ask for some Bazooka Joe, and if we are lucky maybe some pop rocks.

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I already have my two hype-men and front runners M. Mason and my homie Espy, but we here at totally tasteless records like to refer to him as the "worldwide leader".

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 11:56 AM

Good stuff. I'll look for the bootleg material at a DC Metro stop near me. But be careful with the "worldwide leader". It's dangerously close the the Belichick moniker of "worldwide cheater".

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I'm with my man Brown on this one. Quite frankly there is no room for a man who is the most agile/skilled gaurd in the NFL. We would be lucky to get a 4th of 5th. We should lower our expectations and ask for some Bazooka Joe, and if we are lucky maybe some pop rocks.

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 12:02 PM

Ok Sams,

I must first say that random 80's references will get you everywhere.

Back to football: What do you think Randy would go for? There's only one Redskins organization, so I don't know who else would give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for the rights to a 31 year old guard (the most fungible position on the o-line) with a huge contract and an injury history.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

sween,

It is indeed brand new, authentic Play-Doh.

Before this morning, I hadn't played with Play-Doh for 25 years, I'll bet.

I don't want to mess up the totally sweet dinosaur I made, so now I'm tempted to go buy some full-size cans of the stuff and go nuts.

I prefer the new toy smell to the new car smell as well. I still love walking into a Toys 'R' Us and getting hit with that initial blast of chemical aroma. :-)

Posted by: freakzilla | February 20, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Ok Sams,

I must first say that random 80's references will get you everywhere.

Back to football: What do you think Randy would go for? There's only one Redskins organization, so I don't know who else would give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for the rights to a 31 year old guard (the most fungible position on the o-line) with a huge contract and an injury history.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 20, 2008 12:08 PM

I never said he would go for any more than that, which is why there is no reason to trade him. He is not only proven, he is excellent. Why would you get rid of him for such little value, even if he has only a year or two left as you have claimed. In reality he has more like 3 to 5 lift in him.

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

We have entered "Conversation Tard Zone"

1. O-lineman actually have longer shelf life than the average football player.

2. I am hard pressed to call these big boys "injury prone" by definition they get smacked...dings/injuries will happen. Thats why depth at this position is huge. Mark Schlerth won 2 SB after we thought he was "done" Lachey and Jacoby had to sit out years and came back beast. Getting rid of Randy Thomas is straight idiotic. No other way to cut that cake.

3. Getting rid of S. Davis (i can hear beantown now....) was a stupid stupid move, especially b/c it was on the whim of a HC that was gonna quit anyway....we should have been the team to ride SD and till he begged for retirement.

4. Of course I was kidding about Lavar.

5. ARE will not be traded.

6. Trades are very hard in the NFL, sum of you butt munches talk up here like they happen all the time....

7. Is it friday yet?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry, bingo you came to play today.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF CHRISLARRY

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 12:48 PM | Report abuse

I think it is misleading to call John Jansen and Randy Thomas "Injury Prone". To me injury prone means you constantly have nagging injuries which keeps you out of the game. If you snap your leg or rip your triceps, you really can't control that!! I think Jansen and Thomas will have a great season in 08. Now is not the time to get rid of them.

Posted by: jimwell | February 20, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

It's Frost, not Forst.

Posted by: justin_finch | February 20, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Derrick Forst has always been a core guy for the maroon and black. Up here.

Posted by: pulldownclaw | February 17, 2008 08:16 PM

I missed this earlier, this may be the funniest part of my day.

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 12:59 PM | Report abuse

Derrick has been a lifesaver on Forst Down.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 1:04 PM | Report abuse

brownwood, your arguments are getting weaker and weaker by the post. ARE missed the first couple games of his career this season, and now all of a sudden he's injury-prone? And he and Santana Moss are nowhere near the same player. They share a size relationship, that's about it. Moss is a premier deep threat with speed very few can keep up with. And normally, he's one of the top receivers in the league at adjusting to the ball in mid-air. Randle el is a very quick receiver who relies on route-running and elusive moves to get open. Don't confuse quickness with "deep threat." Randle el would probably be best served as a slot receiver working underneath, a la wes welker. Santana Moss would not, and should not, be cast into that role. They are very different players.

And as others said, Randy Thomas is a premier player at his position. Yes, he's had some injury problems the past couple years, but that doesn't mean that he's "injury-prone" and will never be healthy again. There's no reason to give up a premier player when he's happy and works for you, especially when you don't even have a qualified backup to step in for him.

I don't know how pessimistic people are right now, but we just went 9-7 in the toughest division in football, ended the season on a 4-1 run, beat the super bowl champions in a must-win situation for both teams...on their home field, and made the playoffs, all with our starting QB, RG, RT, OLB, CB on injured reserve, and our best player and starting pro-bowl FS taken from us in the middle of the season. Is it just me, or am I being too hopeful that we could be even better next season than we ended this year?

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 1:09 PM | Report abuse

B*rno your [sic] like Beetle Juice [sic]....say your name to [sic] many times and you return...I wasn't letting the name get past my fingertips...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 06:57 PM

Please tell me English is not your first language.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

"... I think Jansen and Thomas will have a great season in 08. ..."

Posted by: jimwell | February 20, 2008 12:54 PM

Agree on Thomas, disagree on Jansen. Some peeps are born double-jointed; some have it forced upon them.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Full Name: Floyd Womack
Born: November 15, 1978
Cleveland, MS
Height: 6-4
Weight: 328 lbs. Age: 29
Pos: OT

FLOYD Womack, my Keester. That's "PORKCHOP" Womack, a certain first year inductee to the "All Nickname Hall of Fame."

I say get him.


Posted by: corkczar | February 20, 2008 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmmm. Not to raise an alarm, but has anyone sent a ballboy up to Jasno's room, and knocked on the door? I mean it's been DAYS since we've heard from him, and no one wants to find him lying in a pool of urine and vomit. Okay, some might, but he has a family, for God's sake, so will someone be a lamb and check on him?

Posted by: corkczar | February 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Please tell me English is not your first language.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 01:15 PM

Yo! He's from Brooklyn. Ya wanna make sumpdin of it?

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Just one person's opinion, but, getting rid of S. Davis was a stupid stupid move, especially b/c it was on the whim of a HC that was gonna quit anyway....we should have been the team to ride SD and till he begged for retirement.

Stop me if you've heard that before.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

ewwwww Burn Barno1! You got me! Sorry I was banging out funny insults while also watching TV and cooking dinner. Next time I will submit it to a peer review to vet my cut downs.....ok d-bag?

Highlighting grammar/spelling imperfections on comments is the very last refuge of unfunny, boring, tired, lame, annoying, repetitive and uncreative posters!

Congrats Barno, now go fondle your aunt and stop responding to insults that are as stale as your ideas....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 1:28 PM | Report abuse

bentown greg! I knew you would say that and even acknowledged that. But I love me some SD and can never let that go, also responding to that as an example!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmmm. Not to raise an alarm, but has anyone sent a ballboy up to Jasno's room, and knocked on the door? I mean it's been DAYS since we've heard from him, and no one wants to find him lying in a pool of urine and vomit. Okay, some might, but he has a family, for God's sake, so will someone be a lamb and check on him?

Posted by: corkczar | February 20, 2008 01:24 PM

Even I, who doesn't bash the Redskins every move or thought process, would hate to see that fall upon JLaC. Let's just hope there's a ballboy at his hotel. If not, even a bellboy may do the trick.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

psp

You are not too optimistic, just remember the NFL for about 90% of the teams is year to year, skins are clearly in the year to group as opposed to mark it down tiltle teams like Pats and indy etc.... we got some things goin on and did overcome alot last year, but I will remind all that it was our 36 yr old backup leading us down the stretch, not our young QB ( if it were campbell instead down the stretch I would totally share your optimisum).......

Posted by: Oldschool | February 20, 2008 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Maybe Cyn City AKA TheCindy AKA Jasons' editor could hook us up with a new thread.

Ahem, Cindy? Cindy?

How about you, Emilio?

Anyone? Anyone?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I haven't had time to raed all of the posts over the last few days, so forgive me if this has been brought up already.
brownwood26, your theory on trading ARE and Thomas is slightly flawed. After all, how do you propose a team that is currently about 10 million over the cap pull off such a trade? Moving either of these guys would cost the skins a ton of money in dead cap space. They would need to clear an additional 20 million dollars in cap space just to consider trading these guys. Remember when we re-signed Samuels a few years back to clear up the 8 million dollars needed to trade Coles? Same thing here with either of these two guys. Too much deferred money still owed.
How about proposing a trade for Betts? They could at least knock off about 1.5 million from the cap by doing this.

Posted by: skinsfan_81 | February 20, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

OldSchool, great points as always.

In addition to all the other things we're crossing our fingers about, we have to hope that...

a. Campbell learned a lot watching Todd run the offense during that great run

b. Campbell is fully recovered from his injury

c. Campbell is working overtime with Zorn and the other coaches to learn the new O

d. Campbell will have a chance to throw about a zillion balls to Moss, ARE, and Cooley this offseason

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Post employees taking a snow day/early dismissal?

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Highlighting grammar/spelling imperfections on comments is the very last refuge of unfunny, boring, tired, lame, annoying, repetitive and uncreative posters!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 01:28 PM

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

...and Mix and Espy.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

How about proposing a trade for Betts? They could at least knock off about 1.5 million from the cap by doing this.

Posted by: skinsfan_81 | February 20, 2008 01:37 PM

For the love of (Insert creator/maker here) please don't propose we trade interchangeable Betts.

Posted by: RedDMV | February 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

From the subtle hints in the Emilio-posted threads, I'm thinking that Jasno has been moving households ... which is totally easy to do with little kids.

Nate, on (c) above, I'm thinking Campbell is working with Zorn and the other coaches, not so much focused on LEARNING the new O, but writing it up ... from scratch!

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Highlighting grammar/spelling imperfections on comments is the very last refuge of unfunny, boring, tired, lame, annoying, repetitive and uncreative posters!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 01:28 PM

Hey Chris Larry,

I've noticed that you sometimes go back and forth on the shift key, or maybe your caps lock key has epilepsy.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Is Jason Campbell even in town this offseason? We haven't heard about him much like we did last year. The only recent sightings of offense at Ashburn seem to be ARE and Cooley.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Nate, on (c) above, I'm thinking Campbell is working with Zorn and the other coaches, not so much focused on LEARNING the new O, but writing it up ... from scratch!

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 01:45 PM

Wouldn't that be a refreshing idea instead of trying to get umpteen number of players to adjust to learn and adjust to system, tailor system to aforementioned players on team.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Is Jason Campbell even in town this offseason? We haven't heard about him much like we did last year. The only recent sightings of offense at Ashburn seem to be ARE and Cooley.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 01:47 PM

He's been in the Bahamas on vacation but was supposed to be back this week (so I've Heard) and since we haven't heard anything from anyone since last week, who know's if he's been there?

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Campbell was at the park until just recently, when he finally got his knee to 100% and completed his rehab. I expect he is just taking a bit of a vacation now.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, obviously I'd love it if Mix and Espy and Reche and the whole gang were there as well, but I really, really want Soups to be in synch with the top three dudes from the get-go.

sween, I just pictured Zorn and Soups out on the practice field at the Park, drawing up plays in the dirt, figuring out the offense. With beer.

tafka, that would be an excellent topic for a new post, Campbell's comings and goings, rehab etc. Hell, anything would be better than speculating about fantasy football-esque trades :)

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Vacation?!! When there's a new offense to learn!? Incontheevable!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Vacation?!! When there's a new offense to learn!? Incontheevable!

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 01:54 PM

That's assuming that there is an offense to learn.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Adjusting a system to personnel is no big deal, but a new terminology still has to be learned.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Soup will get better and better. In some of the earlier games, he looked like he was using sound techniques and able to release the ball. As the OL got shakier, so did he.

As a young QB getting comfortable with reading the defense and the routes as they develop has got to be tough. (oh, and don't forget the technical stuff, the play fake, the footwork, how to hold the ball, etc.)

For all that to work at game speed, it must be second nature.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 2:02 PM | Report abuse

I have Zorn's installation of a new offense, and Soups' ability to lead that offense, as "1" and "1a" among my concerns coming into the season.

Also on the list:

* Composition and health of the O line
* Carlos & Rocky - when are they back, and who holds down the fort 'til then
* Firing Vinny Cerrato
* Something about Clinton Portis
* Snyder selling the team
* Getting a new stadium built in DC
* Nickname change
* New maps
* Winning football games

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 2:05 PM | Report abuse

I still believe the fate (and preferred elimination) of the Funky Four has to be a major area of concern to address this offseason as well.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

As a young QB getting comfortable with reading the defense and the routes as they develop has got to be tough. (oh, and don't forget the technical stuff, the play fake, the footwork, how to hold the ball, etc.)

For all that to work at game speed, it must be second nature.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 02:02 PM

With a new coaching staff, offensive system and terminology, it sounds like Jason will be ready to really shred the rest of the NFL in about 2010.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Just to clarify. I wouldn't kill them. I'd just get a restraining order.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 20, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

* Nickname change

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 02:05 PM

I'm still in favor of the Maroon, Black and Yellow of the Washington Redhawks.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Nate,
Don't forget:

* Picking a new paint, carpet and curtains for the film room

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

It's a really dull day on the blog when even an audit review sounds exciting as a change of pace.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

tafka,
I beleive.

Look at how well Soup did in 2007. I think the impact of offense system changes on Soup are a bit overblown. I think 2008 will be better for him, if Zorn and company can deliver.

Collins was effective because of his comfort level. Saunders really open-up the play calling for him. My gut tells me that Soup would have done better if Saunders had done so with him, but what do I know?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

As I recall from Zorn's press conference, his first coaching act will be to get the center's butt "higher" so that Campbell won't have to bend as much. From this all good things flow.

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

If its findable (because SOMEONE somewhere is going to put something about it on the web), the most interesting insider dope about the Combine is the interaction btwn the defensive line coach of the Chiefs and the top D-line prospects, esp. DTs and 3-4 DEs. I don't remember the guy's name, but he was the one who was singlehandedly responsible for Alan Branch's stock plummet last season. This guy apparently gets down and does one-on-one drills with the prospects and the prospect has to get around him. Apparently, this guy almost had Branch weeping. Carriker, on the other hand, knew it was coming and get REAL aggressive with this guy ... who is otherwise real old. [That is a bit I got from Jasno at an in-town happy hour in days of yore.] You gotta love a coach who will mix it up with young bucks.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

"As I recall from Zorn's press conference, his first coaching act will be to get the center's butt "higher" so that Campbell won't have to bend as much. From this all good things flow."

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 02:34 PM

All good things flow, with the minor exception of additional Rabach babies.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

KC D-line coach who is the litmus test for draftees ... Tim Krumrie

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 2:39 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato has identified wide receiver, cornerback, versatile offensive and defensive linemen and fullback as need positions for the Redskins.

From Redskins.com

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

just was on that new-era draft site, and confirmed some stuff on guys I want and don't want.

Limas Sweed - oh yeah, hard worker, leader, just what the team needs

James Hardy - No, this guy has drama written all over him. Multiple suspensions, spent time in jail for hitting a woman.

They also wrote a good/great review about Campbell the DE from Miami. If somehow the skins were able to land both these guys, Sweed/Campbell, I'd probably pass out...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34543

Here Vinnie talks about the teams' needs. There's also a photo from when he tried out for a part on Stargate SG-1.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

James Hardy - No, this guy has drama written all over him. Multiple suspensions, spent time in jail for hitting a woman.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 02:52 PM

Welcome to Cincinnati, Mr. Hardy!

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 20, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

I imagine Vinny Cerrato and Reche Caldwell see eye-to-eye on a lot of things (or maybe that's "through" a lot of things).

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato has identified wide receiver, cornerback, versatile offensive and defensive linemen and fullback as need positions for the Redskins.

From Redskins.com

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 02:50 PM

Redskins need a fullback? I hope that they have higher priorities than getting rid of Sellars.

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato has identified wide receiver, cornerback, versatile offensive and defensive linemen and fullback as need positions for the Redskins.

From Redskins.com

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 02:50 PM


Redskins need a fullback? I hope that they have higher priorities than getting rid of Sellars.

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 03:22 PM

This has nothing to do with getting rid of sellars. Sellars is over 30 so you have to think about the future. Also he was hurt for a while last season and the run game was completely shut down. They have no backup fullback at the moment and you can't go into a season praying that Sellars can play all 16 games or you can't run. Todd Yoder took his place last year and was asscheeks at it.

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Anyone want to bet that Chrislarry is a 20-something dropout living in his parent's basement? Lock of the century.


Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I remember the Skins once drafted this Nemo Broughton fella at FB, who was instantly a fan fave because of his first name. Then he hurt his knee. I know that Cadillac Williams hurt his knee and might have to call it a career. Does anyone remember the nature of Nemo's knee injury?

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I would imagine that fullbacks are not as hard to find. It seems like no one drafts one in the first two rounds. I agree that we are thin at that position, especially if we can not use an H-back kind of player.

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because uh some people out there in our nation don't have maps and uh I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for.

Posted by: MsTeen_South_Carolina | February 20, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

If somehow the skins were able to land both these guys, Sweed/Campbell, I'd probably pass out...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 02:52 PM

That will be tough, since both are projected 1st rounders.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

The front office have already identified the heir apparent at fullback, and his name is TDawg. Sellers is just keeping the seat warm, like such as.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=26196

Sween, Here's a blurb on Nemo's injury.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Cerrato has identified wide receiver, cornerback, versatile offensive and defensive linemen and fullback as need positions for the Redskins.

From Redskins.com

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 02:50 PM

Vinny finally has a good player evaluation/need system, thanks to his daily reading of the blog.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

That will be tough, since both are projected 1st rounders.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 03:35 PM

No probs. We'll trade Betts for a first round pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, thanks, but that's not enough info. I remember reading that, if you pop a knee ligament, one of them (ACL or MCL) is better than the other ... and that if you pop both, you're positively Carlos Rogers.

Also, in the shameless promotion department, I would like to pimp my boy, Jehuu Caulcrick of Michigan State as the Skins' draft choice to become Jerome Bettis. I love me some Mike Sellers, but in short yardage situations, Caulcrick is my man. [May not even be drafted, but still an outstanding FB.] TDawg, we'll check back in after your college career.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

No probs. We'll trade Betts for a first round pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 03:42 PM

LMGO! Good one. (Watch out for incoming barbs.)

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

I personally apologize for my little brother Barno and his uh, behavior like such as. Our mama lets him play on the computer and he doesn't have uh, a sense of humor, an ounce of wit, and is not funny, like such as.

Posted by: MsTeen_South_Carolina | February 20, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Since the Skins are Shopping ARE.. How about ARE and a 3rd or 4th for Ocho Cinco?

ARE is making 5 mil a year, I think in this case it would be a good move for both teams.

Posted by: greg_hughes90 | February 20, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

wrong again barno ole' chap...

my teen beat profile:

mid 30's

married

out of parents house since 18

family never had basement

masters degree in education

work in museum education department as manager of educational technology department.

anything else barno?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I love me some Mike Sellers, but in short yardage situations, Caulcrick is my man.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 03:42 PM

sween,

Does your boy Caulcrick use the Bettis short yardage technique -- blow through people and knock them on their butts -- or the Sellars technique of jumping over, or at least into, the pile from three yards behind the line of scrimmage?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry,

You're making that stuff up aren't you? I'll bet your Mom helped you with it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I'm still in favor of the Maroon, Black and Yellow of the Washington Redhawks.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 02:15 PM

Hey, you Birdist. On behalf of Avian-Americans everywhere, I find the name Redhawks offensive because uh, that is...dammit! I hate it when I have a good premise and NO freakin' punch line.

Here's my solution to the backup fullback dealio. Put Alexander on offense and use him as a short yardage blocking fullback. Huh? Huh? Dude, can flat out do everything.

This will let the team squander its low round picks on other positional needs, as usual.

You're welcome.


Posted by: corkczar | February 20, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins are keeping Betts. Trade Rock, and a 7th this year for a First and a third next year.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

Snooping around on my guy, Caulcrick, I see the Spartans and draft sites list him at RB rather than FB, which surprises me b/c I always thought of him as a FB. He's listed as 6'0" and 255 lbs.

The I recalled someone have pedanting on the topic of West Coast offense, and the role of the fullback. [I've since seen references to a West Coast fullback in some of the draft sites that evaluate FBs.]

Anyway, at this site ... http://football.calsci.com/WCOHistory5.html
... I found this:

"Fullbacks and Running Backs
Two other positions important to the West Coast offense are the fullback and running back positions. The ideal size for the fullback position should be about six foot one inch and weigh about 245 pounds. The running back should be large enough to take punishment and retain stamina. The main goals for the fullback and running back position in the West Coast offense are to be able to block and catch. In this offense these positions also have to able to pick up blitzing linebackers. The most important value for these positions is to be able to catch. These positions in the West Coast offense will probably have more catches than rushing attempts."

Also, I remember that one of the midseason hires (preseason? practice squad?), maybe his name was Brian Bell, but he was tall, had good hands, and dreadlocks. Anyone remember that guy? I liked him for the dreads. Him or Caulcrick ... I'm good with either.

Also, cL, I believe bed wetting is an important characteristic that that guy is interested in.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Welcome to Cincinnati, Mr. Hardy!

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 20, 2008 03:06 PM

...where we have a bail bondsmen on staff.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

greg--That's brilliant. We were just going to let him walk, but I like this plan much better. Do you think we should sign him first or just trade him before he becomes a free agent?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 4:00 PM | Report abuse

t_e, the former ... bus right through the middle. He has HUGE thighs. Like the thigh equivalent of Portis' neck.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Does your boy Caulcrick use the Bettis short yardage technique -- blow through people and knock them on their butts -- or the Sellars technique of jumping over, or at least into, the pile from three yards behind the line of scrimmage?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 03:53 PM

Or does he use the TJ Duckett approach of tippy toeing around the line until a defender blows up his whole area?

Posted by: sams3 | February 20, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

oh ta, why bother signing him, the moment right before the clock starts ticking on his free agency, you ship him to another team. The TRU-Brilliance is that the other team just traded for a free agent, and your team is free to sign him....Its like revenge and a great trade all wrapped up in a neat little package.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 4:03 PM | Report abuse

That will be tough, since both are projected 1st rounders.

Posted by: tafka | February 20, 2008 03:35 PM

that depends on what mock draft you look at.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

What about this guy out of WVU Schmitt i think his name is, he looked pretty good from what i saw

Posted by: SAK2 | February 20, 2008 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Raiders put the franchise tag on CB Nnamdi Asomugha ... booooooo ...

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Anyone want to bet that Chrislarry is a 20-something dropout living in his parent's basement? Lock of the century.


Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 03:29 PM

Barno please be more interesting. Or at least less boring.

Posted by: mack1 | February 20, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

has the 2008 schedule been released?

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry seems like a legitimate JMU graduate... I don't question him. I fear him.

F cHriS LaRRy

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

has the 2008 schedule been released?

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 04:43 PM

Not yet, I don't think they do that till something like June or July, but they have announced the opponents (home and away). The opponents are on the Skins website in the bottom left corner.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

thanks, checking to see if the Skins would be in Denver at all... no such luck.

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

So did I kill the blog? I'm sitting in class right now and bored out of my mind.

Posted by: Dorf | February 20, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I think its still working just slow, no new post in 3-4 days makes it tough to find find stuff to talk about

Posted by: SAK2 | February 20, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Albert "Polka Stomp" Haynesworth just got tagged by the Titans.

Jasno and Ivan Carter are live on Comcast (through the WaPo sports page) now.

Posted by: dcsween | February 20, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Redskins need a fullback? I hope that they have higher priorities than getting rid of Sellars.

Posted by: driley | February 20, 2008 03:22 PM

What they said was FB is real important to the WCO so they need more than one. Nemo might be back but apparently they're not banking on it. I like the idea of trying Alexander at FB. Maybe line up Alexander at FB and Sellers at RB.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

I wonder if they're asking Heyer about Dre Moore (DT) and Andrew Crummey(G). Both could be 2nd round picks out of Maryland.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

As the blog's official fullback (and NFL fullback in training), I've got the skinny on the FB outlook in the draft.

In terms of who is "best," it really depends on what kind of back we're looking for. For example, Jacob Hester out of LSU is a rock solid ball carrier-- he had over 100 yards rushing in all of their big games and *never* once fumbled. He needs to work on his blocking to be all purpose, but he's got the strength and most of all speed to be amazing.

Peyton Hills from Arkansas is a beast-- prolly the best blocking back in the draft in my opinion-- he opened holes for Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. He's huge too and kind of in the Mike Sellers mold. Can catch a ball out of the backfield too.

Owen Schmitt (as someone mentioned) is a beast as well. He can run, catch, and block. He's an all-around talent that could shape up into another Mike Alstott I think. His last game as a senior in the WVU bowl game was huge for him, I think he had a 78 yd. TD run in the last minute of the game.

Then there is TDawg-- 6'1, 285 lbs., 4.78 40 time. But he is ineligible due to lack of experience. But soon, babies. Soon.

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

oh, and F chris larry.

with love,
t-dawg

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

The front office have already identified the heir apparent at fullback, and his name is TDawg. Sellers is just keeping the seat warm, like such as.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 03:38 PM


Haha, I love you Nate.

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 6:34 PM | Report abuse

James Hardy - No, this guy has drama written all over him. Multiple suspensions, spent time in jail for hitting a woman.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 20, 2008 02:52 PM

greg, i'm at IU now and i know james hardy (was a student of my mentor). he's a good kid, he was suspended twice-- once for grades, once for breaking curfew. the domestic dispute was with the mother of his child-- inexcusable-- but i've met him a couple times; he's really matured the last year or so, and he has some room to grow in the talent department. i think he'd be a very good 2nd round WR pick if he's still available.

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

Some 600 posts later nothing new going on? Fing A

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Okay so 30 of the 597 posts on here are by me? Man how sad am I?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

What about ARE to the Falcons for one of their 2nd round picks?

Could pick up a tall guy like Limas Sweed, Mario Manningham, or James Hardy if they fall.

Don't get me wrong, ARE is one of my fave Skins and a fellow IU alum.

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 6:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't see us trading ARE

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

What will people give us for Lloyd? Anything? Can I get a beer for em?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

There is always the proverbial ham sandwich, but in Lloyd's case the bread might be stale.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:11 PM | Report abuse

Can we make a trade with the CFL? AFL? AAFL? AFL2? The yet to exist UFL?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 7:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Actually the AFL uses guys like him on D, you know guys who don't fight for the ball?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse

alex, Stumped, I forgot that question in my list of concerns going into next season: whither Brandon Lloyd?

Will he slink off into the sunset, as we all expect? Or will Gibbs and Saunders' malingering trash be transformed into Zorn and Sherman's treasure? Again, it could that the coaching change was the "change of scenery" Lloyd needed. I doubt it, but we've seen weirder.

Would just be nice to see a redemption arc after enduring so many of the opposite (LaVar, Laverneus, etc.). Though I guess we have Smoot's return as the prodigal son or something... ah who knows.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 7:21 PM | Report abuse

Remember Casey Bramlet?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

Nate,
I hear ya and need a good redemption song too.

But, I ain't burnin' the candle for Receiver, The for another second.

I think he deposited all his motivation (and potential) in the bank.

BL if you're out there, prove me wrong.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:28 PM | Report abuse

See, Stumpy, everybody who believed 2007 would be Lloyd's comeback year already burned through their goodwill for him. Me, I never believed in him (though I had hopes), so he didn't let me down. So IF he stays on our roster this season, I'll be root, root, rooting for the dude.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 7:37 PM | Report abuse

TDawg,
Delaware hasn't really used a fullback under Keeler......have you been talking to them? Would they use you as a TE? Great school with a good program......let me know if you are coming to UD.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 19, 2008 08:41 AM

hey dlhaze,
i haven't spoken to them yet-- I'm waiting to hear where i get admitted first before i contact the coaches (i already got into kentucky, so that's a possibility, but the SEC is rough for a newbie with no training)-- i should know in about a month or so and then i'm gonna try to make summer camp. my guess is that i'll have to walk-on anywhere i go, but if i do end up at delaware i'd imagine they'd plug me in at TE (for the reasons you mentioned), but that's not too bad of a gig.

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Oh, I'd still root for him. His comeback would be a feel good story to be sure.

My take on him is he is a talented but immature young man who cashed out. And honestly, I don't hold that against him. If I could legally bank that kind of dough, I might cash out too.

Till I see him playing with a chip on his shoulder...fagetaboutit. Odd of a comeback, say, 75:1 against.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

shoot, i prolly should look into NCAA regulations about players-- i'm 23 and going into grad school for the 2nd time (just finished the M.A. at IU)... hopefully i'm eligible. does anyone know the stats?

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

dhaze, Tdawg:

I'm a UD alum. I went there during the Scott Brunner years (oh, I know its ancient history), but they won the Division title.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 7:57 PM | Report abuse

Rock on, Stumped!
I'm a UMBC alum myself, then IU for the M.A., but I like the sound of Delaware for the Ph.D. and football-- good, solid Division II program (which probably means I could have a chance to get on the field).

I'll keep you posted.

Is Delaware really as happening as everyone tries to convince me it is?

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 8:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

He has to be gone doesn't he? What will we have 5 WR's on our final roster?

Our roster currently has-

S.Moss - Staying
A.Randle-El - Staying
J.Thrash - Should be staying
A.Mix - Showed signs that he should remain
M.Espy - Coming back from torn ACL, may not be shown as much faith from a new coach.
R.Caldwell - FA, likely to be gone
K.McCardell - FA, likely to be gone
B.Toler - Won't make final roster
B.McMullen - This year's Pinkston/Bradford.
M.Mann - Won't make the final roster
S.Harris - Won't make the final roster

So when you take into account that we're targetting a WR this offseason, whether it be through free agency or the Draft, it seems as though there may not be enough room on our roster for that Lloyd chap.

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Tdawg - Good to hear it's going well! Bet you've got your eyes peeled for EB's soon to be released DVD!

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 8:07 PM | Report abuse

kost,
I see Thrash as questionable too.
Caldwell or McCardell, maybe not both.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

Tdawg,
Somebody pimped out my biker bar, the place never use to have all those porches or the skanky paint job...but I can assure you the drinks are cheap and strong enough for the college budget.

George Thorogood used to make cameos there and blow the place up.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Stumped, yeah, I think Mix's emergence on special teams might make Thrash expendable.

Could be right about Caldwell and McCardell, all depends on how Espy returns, or if we get a FA WR AND draft one. Plenty of variables.

If Rock is going, and Thrash does too, would that leave us with Betts as our kick returner? We might end up looking for 2 receivers, one taller one to help the WCO, and another for kick returns.

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Tdawg - Good to hear it's going well! Bet you've got your eyes peeled for EB's soon to be released DVD!

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 08:07 PM


kost,
guilty as charged, my friend!

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 8:29 PM | Report abuse

B*rno your [sic] like Beetle Juice [sic]....say your name to [sic] many times and you return...I wasn't letting the name get past my fingertips...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 06:57 PM

masters degree in education

work in museum education department as manager of educational technology department.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 03:50 PM

Absolutely hysterical.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I like how in NFL.com's player profiles for the draft, they compare the prospects to current players, so you get a decent idea as to what type of player they are. Here are some of the guys we could be looking at -

WR. Limas Sweed - Andre Johnson
WR. Adarius Bowman - Braylon Edwards
WR. Early Doucet - Dwayne Bowe
WR. James Hardy - Harold Carmichael??
WR. DeSean Jackson - Steve Smith
WR. Malcolm Kelly - Larry Fitzgerald

DT. Kentwan Balmer - Fred Robbins
DE. Calais Campbell - Julius Peppers
DE. Derrick Harvey - Jevon Kearse
DE. Lawrence Jackson - Mark Anderson
DE. Phillip Merling - Justin Tuck
DT. Frank Okam - Shaun Rogers
DT. Pat Sims - Sam Adams

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 8:47 PM | Report abuse

Rock on, Stumped!
I'm a UMBC alum myself,

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 08:00 PM

UMBC! I'm a retriever, too.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 8:52 PM | Report abuse

kost,
Harold Carmichael??
Former Eagle WR, big, tall, fluid with good hands.

I wonder who the irresistible FA will be?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

On Springs...
http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/02/20/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go-now/

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 07:18 PM

They should keep Springs. Since he took up Bikram yoga last offseason he is less likely to be injured. Less likely to pull a hammy. After he retires they should retain him as a yoga instructor. Too many hamstring injuries for the Skins last couple of years.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I know it's a big ask, but I just hope that they are responsible, like last season.


No Asante Samuel, No Chad Johnson, No Lance Briggs.

The right player, AT THE RIGHT PRICE!

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 9:03 PM | Report abuse

On Springs...
http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/02/20/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go-now/

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 07:18 PM

They should keep Springs. Since he took up Bikram yoga last offseason he is less likely to be injured. Less likely to pull a hammy. After he retires they should retain him as a yoga instructor. Too many hamstring injuries for the Skins last couple of years.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 20, 2008 08:57 PM


I love how they point out that Springs isn't as injure prone as his reputation, but then continue to refer to him as injury prone!

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 9:06 PM | Report abuse

B*rno your [sic] like Beetle Juice [sic]....say your name to [sic] many times and you return...I wasn't letting the name get past my fingertips...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 18, 2008 06:57 PM

masters degree in education

work in museum education department as manager of educational technology department.

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 03:50 PM

Absolutely hysterical.

Posted by: Barno1 | February 20, 2008 08:41 PM

you got me barno, I am quiting my job tomorrow, turning in my 4.0 in grad school and finally moving out of Mom's house due to my grammar/spelling mistakes on an off the cuff blog comment....

I throw myself on the sword of your mercy...I have truly shamed Lake Braddock Secondary, James Madison and the Bank Street College of education...

Odin, Zeus, RA, UR can you ever forgive me?!?!?!

RI can you ever forgive me?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 9:16 PM | Report abuse

again barno, excellent work with the cut-n-paste....good work sir!

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 9:21 PM | Report abuse

I hope La Hatchetfora goes a week inbetween posts then comes back strong about how he's working so hard and never takes a break.

Posted by: makalb18 | February 20, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Kind of reminds me of elementary school collages, without all the pretty pictures of course.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 20, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Odin, Zeus, RA, UR can you ever forgive me?!?!?!
RI can you ever forgive me?
Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 09:16 PM


Is RI the god of football's name?

Posted by: alex35332 | February 20, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Anyone watching the Suns - Lakers game? Shaq going to work?

Posted by: kost52 | February 20, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Kost,

Lakers up by 3 points. Haven't watched much b/c I was watching Washington Caps lose by a shootout.....ugh....

did see shaq throw a sweet pass into the paint....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

They say (don't ask me who "they" is; I'm faking it) small receivers can't work in the west coast offense.

So, the receiving corps will be turned on its head.

Although they've got so many other holes to fill, I'm not sure whether it'll be this year or next.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 20, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

chrislarry,

My God! You're moving out? Good luck with that, dude. I hope you can finally get out on your own. I know you've been trying for like 15 years.

We here on RI all support you -- just let us know if there's anything we can do to help.

Hat's off to Barno, for the delicate little nudge.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Oh for love of Pete can someone correct the friggin "Derrick Forst" spelling error in the headline....

Posted by: isnadd | February 20, 2008 10:25 PM | Report abuse

Oh for love of Pete can someone correct the friggin "Derrick Forst" spelling error in the headline....

Posted by: isnadd | February 20, 2008 10:25 PM

This is Barno's fault. He has been way too tolerant of spelling errors by the beat reporter. The rest of us really hate these misspellings, but Barno let's him get away with it.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Jasno : Jason :: Barno : Baron ??

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 20, 2008 10:32 PM | Report abuse

RI can you ever forgive me?

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 09:16 PM

CL, you had me at "you got me barno".

You're forgiven, brother!

Posted by: TDawg | February 20, 2008 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Thank Tdawg!

Not saying I want this, but a gurgle in my bowels tells me Colt Brennen will be in training camp for skins this season...

not saying how (draft or post draft FA)but just a nasty vibe I am getting....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

omg, i meant "thanks tdawg" I disgrace my country....

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 10:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 20, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

From the article kerzon linked to:

"This is Jim Zorn's first combine as a head coach, and Vinny Cerrato's first as Washington's executive vice president, and the team will seek to accomplish much more than merely draft preparations."


I can't help thinking that part of the "much more" they'd like to accomplish is not having everyone at the combine laugh out loud when they walk into the room.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 20, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

Not hugely shocking that the Skins see NOW that they need big time D-line help.

The pash rush of the Seahawks hurt em, especially S-Hawks having a bona fide end rusher, and the lack of their own D-line rush got the Skins embarrassed by the Pats. Meanwhile the Giants AND Cowboys have top tier defensive lines...built through the draft.

The Giants d-line crushed the Pats and at one point just Umenyora alone ripped open the whole Eagles offense, sacking nabby like 6 or 7 times in a 10 play span. I am sick of hearing how strong Daniels upper body is when he has ankles like a baby gazelle that are always tweaked. We knew last year we needed help on D-line yet did nothing. 21st will get us another Kenard Lang, (bust). We need to trade up and get a Dorsey or higher tier d-line pick. We know we need a corner. Springs (iffy) Smoot (iffy) Rogers (probably a career ending injury he had).

What is more shocking is that I don't hear the rumbling that I should on offensive line. Don't tell me Jansen backed up by Wade and Randy Thomas backed up by Pooch. Thats the address to disaster. We need at least one young guard to replace Dockery. And a real tackle. Heyer can be Samuels back up.

If we spend all our FA money on Bears cast offs Briggs and Mushin Mohamed or head case Chad Johnson (as a side note look at how much FA money and how many draft choices we have spent at two stinkin positions over the past few years, WR and LB... it is crazy for the results--no first team pro-bowlers) and don't address corner, offensive and defensive lines, we are in for a garbage season.

FA and Draft...D-line (rush end!!), Cover Corner, O-line (guard-center, tackle), young RB OR Tall WR.

Second level needs, kick returner, tall wide receiver. Run stop linebacker to replace Godfrey, outside LB to replace MacIntosh and/or Marcus Washington. Face it Marcus has lost a step. Macintosh has degenerative knee conditions (pretty good medical eval. on that draft choice!!!)

Posted by: DownTownClown | February 21, 2008 2:11 AM | Report abuse

No problem - looks like all we need to solve all of our problems is about $40 million in cap space and 15 draft picks this year.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:24 AM | Report abuse

So who do we still like in the draft tonight?

1st Round: Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson

2nd Round: Tracy Porter, CB, Indiana

3rd Round: Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State

4th Round: Traded to Denver

5th Round: Donald Thomas, G, U.Conn

6th Round: Letroy Guion, DT, Florida State

7th Round: Demetrius Bell, OT, Northwestern State

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:29 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:30 AM | Report abuse

Jla did post a story. It said some scary things about VinnyDan but what else is new. Blache wants young D-line guys. CB is a second tier need. Makes me think springs is coming back for one more year.

I would like to trade down with the Rams or someone at the spot.

our 1 there 2 and 3.

That way we could get 3 linemen and one CB or LB.

Posted by: mul | February 21, 2008 2:30 AM | Report abuse

As usual, the blog and Loseable Type are running like well-tuned pieces of crap.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:32 AM | Report abuse

Mul,

The Rams had the same kind of O-Line injury problems as the Redskins. And their receivers are getting old. And their defense is not very good. It's unlikely they would be giving away picks to move up.

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 2:36 AM | Report abuse

Of course the d-line is an issue. We knew that last year. The FO knew it last year too but CB was a bigger issue last year. This year it may be d-line. Although CB was addressed last year, Rogers injury highlights the need there. Bottom line, you can't address every weakness in one year - especially if you miss on WR in one year. You have to choose your battles and this year it's d-line, next year o-line or LB. If guys heal up it ain't entirely broke - maybe patched together with duct tape but not broke. Every team has a weakness. As long as your strengths can cover for you weaknesses. See Giants d-line bailing out the secondary. The 'skins secondary bailed out the d-line until the injuries got too bad there. 2006 Giants were injured all up and down the line.

Just make sure what your fixin', you fix.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 3:11 AM | Report abuse

brownwood, your arguments are getting weaker and weaker by the post. ARE missed the first couple games of his career this season, and now all of a sudden he's injury-prone? And he and Santana Moss are nowhere near the same player. They share a size relationship, that's about it. Moss is a premier deep threat with speed very few can keep up with. And normally, he's one of the top receivers in the league at adjusting to the ball in mid-air. Randle el is a very quick receiver who relies on route-running and elusive moves to get open. Don't confuse quickness with "deep threat." Randle el would probably be best served as a slot receiver working underneath, a la wes welker. Santana Moss would not, and should not, be cast into that role. They are very different players.

And as others said, Randy Thomas is a premier player at his position. Yes, he's had some injury problems the past couple years, but that doesn't mean that he's "injury-prone" and will never be healthy again. There's no reason to give up a premier player when he's happy and works for you, especially when you don't even have a qualified backup to step in for him.

I don't know how pessimistic people are right now, but we just went 9-7 in the toughest division in football, ended the season on a 4-1 run, beat the super bowl champions in a must-win situation for both teams...on their home field, and made the playoffs, all with our starting QB, RG, RT, OLB, CB on injured reserve, and our best player and starting pro-bowl FS taken from us in the middle of the season. Is it just me, or am I being too hopeful that we could be even better next season than we ended this year?

Posted by: psps23 | February 20, 2008 01:07 PM

First off, for all of you misquoting me yesterday (psps23, chrislarry, gregmarino88), read the damn post before you reply. I can't for the life of me figure how you have a freakin' transcript in front of you and still get it wrong.

PSPS23, I made one remark that Randy has an "injury history", which is a fact, and all of a sudden everyone is saying "injury prone". Those are two very different things. Whether freak injuries or not, it deters trade value. And I never said anything about ARE and injuries in the same sentence, much less in reference to him.

Your assessment of Moss and ARE is good, but I also said earlier that Moss is the better receiever and I stand by the assertion that you don't need 2 speed receivers for big money.

And on Randy: let's stop making it sound like he's Alan Faneca. He's the best lineman here, he's got a good Madden rating, and he's a damn good player, but the man has never been to a Pro-Bowl and is not considered league-wide as an elite player. Most of you here probably wouldn't have heard of him if he wasn't wearing burgundy and gold.

And once and for all about this season: great feel good story to make the playoffs in spite of the injuries and loss of Sean Taylor. But this was a title contender if this thing was done right. EVERYONE gets injuries. The teams that advance in the playoffs and win championships are the ones that have quality depth on both lines and draft young players to fill the spots vacated by injuries. So that's why many are jaded about this team right now. This team had no business being 9-7 in a weak conference. Matters were made worse by a botched coaching search and a lousy hire. So no, this team WON'T be better next year. 8-8 is a best case scenario.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 6:26 AM | Report abuse

Heckuva job, brownie.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 7:17 AM | Report abuse

I knew who Randy Thomas was....he was a jet and a key cog on some teams that Curtis Martin ran all over the place, and the un-fleet of foot Chad Pennington lead the Jets to the playoffs.

I also know that Jets fans freaked out when the Jets lost him..

I also know that the pro bowl is complete shabingus and should never be used to judge the quality of a player, especially for positions like O-lineman...

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

I know the Pro Bowl is a sham. If it was worth anything Jansen would have been in it years ago. I only said that to illustrate that there's this sudden ground-swell of support for Randy like he's Russ f-ing Grimm and it's heresy to even suggest he be traded. He's a damn good player, but at his age not untouchable.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 8:08 AM | Report abuse

I dig where you're coming from, brownwood, but setting aside how rare trades have become, it just seems so far-fetched that we would trade away the guy I consider our best O lineman, the guy who has the best feet/is our best pulling lineman and is therefore critical to our running game, without a plan to replace him.

Last year we got really, really lucky to get Kendall at the eleventh hour, after letting Dock go and then just twiddling our thumbs for a few months hoping it would sort itself out. I can't imagine that whole shabingus (and the desperate shuffling which ensued when dudes started dropping to injury and we were exposed as having very little depth anywhere on the line) isn't fresh in everyone's mind at the Park.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 8:23 AM | Report abuse

I agree with most of what you say Brownwood, especially acknowleging the critical need on the offensive line. Where I differ is the method of changing it. I do not think that rookie offensive linemen contribute to the health of the quarterback. If you trade Jansen and Thomas and plug 2nd or 3rd round draft choices in this year you will get your qb slaughtered unless the whole offense is wide receiver screens. My plan would be to draft OL this year (Cerrato I know is already blowing smoke about getting impact DL players) and have them work into the line over the course of this year. The following season is the year I would trade off Jansen and Thomas, depending of course on the development of the rookies. This would give a little protection for the new offensive guru as well as the qb.

Posted by: driley | February 21, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse

I don't think that anyone suggested the Randy was Russ Grimm. But what Randy is, is the best offensive lineman on the team, and its well documented the 'before' and 'after' effects that his presence and lack thereof have on the running game.

Brown, to clarify, you want to trade Randy for a, lets say 4th round pick at best, is this correct? What would be the cap hit for trading him?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 8:31 AM | Report abuse

Did anyone else who read Cerrato's draft list orgy laugh out loud? He is a few years late with the "let's build through the draft" mantra. It is not like we have more than 3 picks in the first 4 rounds. If he truly believed in this strategy we would have had a surplus of alotted picks.

Posted by: driley | February 21, 2008 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Look, I just threw trades out there as a way to gain more draft picks and get this team younger. I don't necessarily want Randy traded, I've said several times I like the guy and he's our best lineman right now. But the time is coming sooner than most in this blog think when this line is going start falling off production wise. EVERYONE in the starting lineup is 31 or older. And regardless of what others may think around here, the longer you play in the trenches (the most physical area on the field), the more the body breaks down. Not everyone is Bruce Matthews and can play down there forever.

It's not going to happen in one offseason, but this team needs to start piling up young linemen on both sides of the ball so that when the Griffins and Jansens and Rabachs of the world can't do it anymore, they have some young guys to take their spots and not have to pay $20 million guaranteed money to a 28 year old free agent, going through this process all over again.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d806c11f3&template=with-video&confirm=true&campaign=ec0005

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 21, 2008 02:30 AM

From the above article:

Jordy Nelson, Kansas: Rumors are that Nelson will run well in Indianapolis. If he ever winds up at a team like the Colts he will put up big numbers as a complementary receiver.

Posted by: skinfanman | February 21, 2008 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Brown, how about if the Redskins keep Randy, and they draft a guard in the 2nd and 5th rounds this year, and groom them to replace Thomas/Kendall when they can't do it anymore? What if they do that?? Is that acceptable to you?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

But the time is coming sooner than most in this blog think when this line is going start falling off production wise.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 08:45 AM

So, here's an idea: Why don't we accelerate the O line's deterioration by trading the best guys for some fourth round draft picks?

Greg's right on this one. If you're concerned about an aging O line, you have to keep the producers while drafting their replacements. You don't trade them for fourth round picks and hope they can start for you.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Brown, to clarify, you want to trade Randy for a, lets say 4th round pick at best, is this correct? What would be the cap hit for trading him?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 08:31 AM

I haven't worked the numbers Greg, but you're missing the orginal point. I was saying that the team should look into trading some vets with some value and stockpile some picks to get younger. I don't know what it would cost to unload Randy; that's just one of the vets that come off the top of my head. But when you're rebuilding you don't worry about the cap hit; the whole point is to unload large salaries/older players and get cheaper/younger players. It makes your team miserable for a couple years, but you're better in the long run. Wouldn't you trade a couple 5-11s now (which we've been getting in recent years anyway) for the possibilities of 12-13 win years later?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 8:54 AM | Report abuse

brownwood - I guess I'm not really getting your argument then. You talk about how randy thomas has an "injury history", which deters his value, but doesn't necessarily mean he's "injury prone." Ok, i see where i misread you're statement. But you still want to trade a "damn good player" when his value has dropped due to "injury history". Doesn't really make much sense; like buying high and selling low.

And i guess our assessment of randy thomas will differ as well. You call him "damn good", i call him elite. You call him the best lineman here, and go on to point out he's never been to the pro bowl. However, there is a perennial pro bowler on the roster in Chris Samuels. I said thomas was a pro-bowl caliber player, not a pro-bowler. We all know that making the pro bowl isn't the end-all, be-all of assessments. But I agree, he is the best lineman we have, even better than our perennial pro-bowl tackle, making Thomas in my eyes a pro-bowl caliber player. And I could be mistaken, but I believe he was selected to the pro bowl in 2005, but had his ankle shattered by Betts at the end of the season and couldn't go. Could be wrong on that point.

You talk about depth carrying teams, but how do you get depth by trading away your starters? You're not going to get multiple personnel, like you would in basketball. In the end, you're only crippling your team in the short term, and HOPING for a payoff in the long-run. (And that's a big hope, because we all know the draft is extremely hit or miss, with many more misses than hits)

Finally, you're talking about how our team was a feel-good story, but in the end underachieved by going 9-7 in the conference. And I agree with that. That's why I said it's not unreasonable to think this team could be MUCH better next year, with the same core guys. Yes, everyone gets injuries. But not even close to the injuries we had. The colts had injury problems...they lost 2 starters. The Giants...2(some would even say 1, if you don't count kiwanuka). Packers...0. Pats...0. Seahawks...2. Cowboys...1. San Diego was the only comparable team...pretty much playing without 3 (not even without, because rivers, tomlinson, and gates were all on the field). REDSKINS...6. Six starters. And that's just at the end of the season. That doesn't count the multiple games missed by players like Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle El, and James Thrash. Remember that ridiculous Packers game? We ended the game without our starting RT, starting RG, 2nd string RT, and 3rd string RT. How many teams lose 3 players at the same position, in the same game? I know teams have injuries, but nowhere near the dearth of injuries the skins had to deal with. There was even an article on ESPN.com right before the playoffs about the skins defying the odds, because of every team within range of the skins' injury problems, the redskins were the only team to win more than 6 games. The fact is the redskins had to deal with injuries much more than any other "contender" in the league this year. It's not even close.

The way I see it, with the injuries we had + the underachievement we dealt with, we're in a position to do MUCH better next year, not the opposite. Getting rid of two very good, productive starters, and hoping you can bring in adequate replacements, would just be counter-productive.

Extremely long post, sorry about that.

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

PSP, nicely done. That's a great job detailing it all out.

Ok, back to the draft, was just looking at some of the DT's that are coming out this year. Frank Okram seems to be flying somewhat under the radar. Or in the second round Kentwan Balmer.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

And on Randy: let's stop making it sound like he's Alan Faneca. He's the best lineman here, he's got a good Madden rating, and he's a damn good player, but the man has never been to a Pro-Bowl and is not considered league-wide as an elite player.

This team had no business being 9-7 in a weak conference.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 06:26 AM

1)Most of your post is decent except for these two things. I've heard quite a few announcers and others say that Randy Thomas should have been in the Popularity Bowl on a number of occassions throughout the year. Just because he hasn't, doesn't mean he shouldn't. My thought, the less you hear an o-linesmen's name, the better he is.

2)Weak division? Are you serious? I'm not even going to justify this with reasons.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

brownwood,

Last year the New York Jets traded Pete Kendall to the Redskins and started a rookie in his place. How did that work out for the Jets?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Wouldn't you trade a couple 5-11s now (which we've been getting in recent years anyway) for the possibilities of 12-13 win years later?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 08:54 AM

This is all contingent on you thinking the skins have no shot next year. Would you trade an 11-5 year for a 5-11 year next year, just for the hopes that someday you COULD be in the POSITION to be an 11-win team? Sorry if that didn't make sense, tough to convey that question on paper. My point being, just because you go into rebuilding mode doesn't mean you actually end up building something...

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone know what the 21st and/or the 51 st picks signed for last year? I gathered from the NFL article that it might make more sense financially to go the FA route for a WR instead of drafting one in the first two rounds.

Posted by: marlonjohn | February 21, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse

This team had no business being 9-7 in a weak conference.

If by weak conference you mean, 3 out of the 4 teams make the playoffs, and one of those three winning the super-bowl. If thats what you mean by weak, then sure, I'll buy it.

Funny you say they had no business being 9-7, but yet they were.....weird.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

I know the Pro Bowl is a sham. If it was worth anything Jansen would have been in it years ago.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 08:08 AM

Here, here!

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 9:06 AM | Report abuse

scambell,

I believe he said weak conference and having a 9-7 record to get into the playoffs justifies that statement. You may have confused conference with division.

Posted by: driley | February 21, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

You guys are confusing weak conference with weak division. I believe that he was saying that we play in a weak NFC, versus a much more competitive AFC. He wasn't referring to the NFC East.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 21, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

He said "conference" and once again he's wrong. Last year the AFC and the NFC played 64 games. The AFC won 32 and the NFC won 32. Sounds pretty even.

And, the NFC won the Super Bowl. And the Pro Bowl.

So, what makes the NFC "weak"?

Anyway, as I recall it the Redskins played either the second or third most difficult schedule of the 32 teams in the league.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse

This team had no business being 9-7 in a weak conference.

If by weak conference you mean, 3 out of the 4 teams make the playoffs, and one of those three winning the super-bowl. If thats what you mean by weak, then sure, I'll buy it.

Funny you say they had no business being 9-7, but yet they were.....weird.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 09:06 AM

CONFERENCE, not DIVISION. See what I mean about ready the post carefully?

And if you thought this team didn't blow between 4-6 games this season, you didn't watch a single game and you're an idiot.

Look, if you people like this lousy system, be my guest. I just suggested a way to get young talent here and try to recoup some of the dozens of draft choices lost in recent years. If it doesn't work, fine. But at least your making a conventional attempt at building a team for something beyond today. But if you want to keep guys into their mid 30s and hope they've got Darrell Green/Bruce Matthews longevity, and not have young, worhty reserves in place, knock yourselves out.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Here's the 21 and 51 draft picks for last year. Haven't found what they signed for yet.

21 Jacksonville Jaguars (from Denver) [9] Nelson, ReggieReggie Nelson Safety Florida
51 New York Giants Smith, SteveSteve Smith Wide receiver USC

scambell,

I believe he said weak conference and having a 9-7 record to get into the playoffs justifies that statement. You may have confused conference with division.

Posted by: driley | February 21, 2008 09:08 AM

My bad, thanks.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

CONFERENCE, not DIVISION. See what I mean about ready the post carefully?

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 09:14 AM

Gotcha brownwood, sorry about that. I agree with stockpiling lineman for the future. The only problem that I have with trading away your starters and plug and chug with rookie draft picks is the fact that after we do that, we'll be looking for a new quarterback too because ours will be dead. We need youth, and we need to train them, not just through them to the wolves. Look what Osi did to the rookies he went up against this year. Wasn't pretty.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse

Brown, there was some ambiguity in how you worded your post. I was not the only one who mis-interpreted it.

Furthermore, how about, if like I suggested above we KEEP these players, and DRAFT their replacements NOW. So that in a year, or two when Kendall can't do it anymore?? Would that work, because that appears to be what they plan on doing?

No one has stated they like the way that the Redskins valued draft picks. They appear to be trying to change their way's. How about if we let that play out, and see what happens?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 9:20 AM | Report abuse

"And if you thought this team didn't blow between 4-6 games this season, you didn't watch a single game and you're an idiot.

Look, if you people like this lousy system, be my guest."

Look, I guess that's just where we differ. Looking back on last season and thinking about the future, I'd much rather be the team that should've won and ended up losing rather than the team that should've lost and ended up winning. One gives you a false sense of team-assessment (like when the Jets won 10 games two years ago), the other lets you know that you're a few minor tweaks away from distinguishing yourself as a top-tier team in the league (as much as I hate to say, like the cowboys transformation from 2 years ago to last years team). I think we're much more on the 'Boys side of the fence than on the Jets' side.

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 9:21 AM | Report abuse

dhaze, Tdawg:
I'm a UD alum. I went there during the Scott Brunner years (oh, I know its ancient history), but they won the Division title.
Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 20, 2008 07:57 PM

My Freshman year was Gannon's last year; he was definitley the BMOC. It was fun to watch his career in the NFL.
_Stumped_, the Deer Park is a little bit nicer now. I try to go to all of the UD games each year, when Keeler took over from Tubby, it really breathed life into the program. One title and another title appearance later, I think it is becoming a very repsected program. I don't really hang out in Newark any more, but once in a blue moon have dinner at Klondike Kates or the Deer Park....still good stuff. Stone Balloon is gone......sad. Bars and restaurants seem to turn over every time I read the paper.

TDawg, UD has a beautiful campus and if you don't feel too old around 18-22 year olds, you would have a great time, especially if you are the stud tight end on the team. I had the time of my life when I went there (class of 90), and would do it all over again if I could.

Go Hens!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | February 21, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

This team had no business being 9-7 in a weak conference.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 06:26 AM

Just because some people mixed up conferece and division doesn't mean brownwood gets a free pass on a stupid statment.

May I remind everyone:

He said "conference" and once again he's wrong. Last year the AFC and the NFC played 64 games. The AFC won 32 and the NFC won 32. Sounds pretty even.

And, the NFC won the Super Bowl. And the Pro Bowl.

So, what makes the NFC "weak"?

Anyway, as I recall it the Redskins played either the second or third most difficult schedule of the 32 teams in the league.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 09:12 AM

The schedule was second only to the Eagles and this was becasue the Redskins won more games makeing them a tougher oppoenet for the Eagles than vice versa.

The Giants beat the AMAZING PATS, who steamrolled over the AFC. If I recall the 3 of the PATS toughest 4 or 5 games were against the NFC, 4 if you include the loss.

Posted by: sams3 | February 21, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse

thanks scampbell on the picks. I'll see if I can find out they signed for. This will give credence that maybe defense the first two rounds make more sense for the Skins cap wise as well given that the FA WR is deep this year.

Posted by: marlonjohn | February 21, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Jasno, have you sold your house yet? Will you wait for the first offer before you update the post???!!

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

You are your record. I think 10 wins was the ceiling for the Skins last year, and was encouraged not discouraged by their record. People who think this was a 11/12/13 win team last season are silly.

Also we won some games we could have just as easily lost so the "coulda shoulda" is a sucker's bet...

But what do I know, I am a mental midget simpleton who must be only a few genes above a banana right Barno?

(fun science fact: Humans and Bananas share about 50% of a genome sequence in common. Ponder that with your place in the universe.)

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

Humans and Bananas share about 50% of a genome sequence in common. Ponder that with your place in the universe.)

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 10:09 AM

Well, duh, dude. Of course it's 50%. Men have bananas and women don't.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Marlonjohn, If you read Pat Kirwan's recent article on WRs in the draft and how the last class fared you may also reach that conclusion. Basically if you draft a WR you shouldn't expect immediate returns.

Now I know it seems that as soon as Darnerian McCants left us we've been trying to find a big receiver and have failed but I say enough is enough. Mix is on the roster there are other fish to fry what's wrong with an offense with Moss, ARE, Cooley and Portis? Seems like more talent than Westbrook, Connel, Alexander and Davis.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Humans and Bananas share about 50% of a genome sequence in common. Ponder that with your place in the universe.)

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 10:09 AM

This morning, I saw a banana slip on a human peel. It was hilarious.

Del Monte Coleman?

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

hey don't attack me, i are stoopid and still breast feeding at 36

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

I'd much rather be the team that should've won and ended up losing rather than the team that should've lost and ended up winning.

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 09:21 AM

In all my years, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Herm, help me out here:

"You play to win the game...Hello? You play to win the game!"

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 10:16 AM | Report abuse

How are the 49ers doing since their youth movement? How did the Dolphin rebuilding project go last year? New GM, new leggos.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

What folks seem to be overlooking is that fact that the talent we're referring to is way overpriced. If the starters here were draft picks still working on their rookie contracts, that's one thing. But a lot of the starters are FA pickups with huge cap numbers. With a salary cap under $200 million dollars, the Skins don't have the luxury of having big money starters and load up on young talent behind them, unless they're picked in the late rounds or are undrafted. A big reason why they don't have viable backups is because they can't afford them.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

You can't have 22 backups that would start for 49ers. The 'skins backups last year were fantastic and affordable. That is why they made it to the playoffs. In 2006, Rumph and company shat shards.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

A big reason why they don't have viable backups is because they can't afford them

Stephon Heyer anyone? Ladell Betts? Todd Collins?? Are they not all backups?

Anyway, what can any of the draft cats tell me about Jordy Nelson? Depending on what he runs at the combine, he might be there for the taking in the third round.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

With a salary cap under $200 million dollars, the Skins don't have the luxury of having big money starters and load up on young talent behind them, unless they're picked in the late rounds or are undrafted. A big reason why they don't have viable backups is because they can't afford them.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 10:22 AM

Wrong again. The reason we don't have young backups is because Gibbs traded away too many draft picks for Brandon Lloyd, Mark Brunell, Jason Campbell, Duckett. Those lost picks are guys who would be pushing the starters.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Jordy Nelson

Overview
Nelson signed with Kansas State as a safety before making the transition to wide receiver as a sophomore.

His initial season at receiver was impressive, with Nelson earning Honorable Mention Big 12 honors with 45 catches for 669 yards and eight TDs. Hampered by a knee injury that caused him to miss three games, Nelson saw his numbers drop to 39 catches for 547 yards and only one score in 2006 before exploding into a First Team All-American in 2007. Nelson finished second only to Biletnikoff winner Michael Crabtree (Texas Tech) in both catches (122) and receiving yards (1,606).

As the focus on the Kansas State passing game, Nelson's numbers are clearly inflated. To attribute his success strictly to this offense, however, is a mistake. His combination of size, route-running and hands make him at least a quality possession receiver prospect.

Ultimately, Nelson's stock will be determined by his 40-yard dash time. The 4.62 he clocked for scouts last spring is not indicative of Nelson's true speed. This timing came with Nelson still rehabilitating his left knee injury and thus, may not be indicative of his true speed. He was an all-state track star during high school and has been timed at a 10.62 in the 100-meter dash.

Nelson's strong senior campaign assures him of being drafted. A strong postseason performance in the Senior Bowl and at the Combine could result in his stock skyrocketing.


High School
Played four years, lettering three, at nearby Riley County High School... Started at both quarterback and defensive back... Connected on 62 percent of his passes for 1,029 yards and eight touchdowns as a senior... Also rushed for 1,572 yards, averaged 9.8 yards per carry and scored 25 touchdowns... Named first team 3A All-State at quarterback by the Topeka Capital-Journal... Was a second team all-state selection for all divisions at both quarterback and defensive back... Named Flint Hills Player of the Year by the Manhattan Mercury... A two-time All-Mid-East League first teamer... Played in the 2003 Kansas Shrine Bowl... Passed for 1,045 yards and rushed for 730 yards and 16 touchdowns as a junior... Also lettered and started in basketball and track... Averaged 17.2 points on 58-percent shooting as a senior... Set school career records for blocks (161), steals (225) and assists (325)... Named first team all-state for all divisions by the Topeka-Capital Journal... Was the Manhattan Mercury's Flint Hills Player of the Year... Won 3A track titles in the 100, 200, 400 and long jump at the 2003 state meet... Set division records in the 100 meters (10.63) and 200 meters (21.64).

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Analysis
Analysis
Positives: Intriguing combination of size, hands and overall athleticism for the position. ... Developed into an All-American wideout after signing with Kansas State as a safety. ... Good initial quickness off the snap to get into his route. ... Sneaky deep speed made more effective by good route-running. ... Best attribute might be his hands and toughness. ... Can adjust to the poorly thrown ball and pluck it out of the air or off his shoe laces. ... Knows when to make the body catch when defenders are near. ... Good body control to get his feet down in bounds and knows where the first down marker is. ... Enjoyed strong games against quality cornerbacks (Dwight Lowery, Terrence Wheatley, Aqib Talib). ... Enjoyed a monster senior campaign -- but was very effective as a sophomore and junior (pre-injury) as well. ... Faster on the field than his timed 40-yard dash would indicate.

Negatives: A better athlete than given credit for, but isn't the elite athlete his senior production may have you believe. ... Good route-runner, but lacks explosiveness out of his breaks and elite deep ball speed. ... Primary target in this offense, receiving more than twice as many passes his way than any other Wildcat receiver. ... Big play artist for KSU, but may lack the acceleration to be anything more than a possession receiver at the next level. ... Suffered a sprained PCL in his left knee that hampered him throughout the 2006 season.

Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.

Q & A
Growing up, who was your favorite NFL player and why?
Joe Montana, because I wanted to be a quarterback when I grew up.
In college, what player hit you the hardest? Who was the recipient of your best hit?
I don't know. Griffith from Texas.
What TV-show marathon will keep you on the couch all day?
Two and a half men
What are the five most-played songs in your iPod? What's the one song you hope nobody ever finds out is in your iPod?
I don't have an iPod.
What celebrity would play you in the movie version of your life and why?
Channing Tatem, because people say I look like him a little.
What is one thing your teammates don't know about you?
I cook at my parents' restaurant.
What reality TV show would you like to be on and why?
Survivor, because it's challenging both mentally and physically.
What's your proudest moment in football? Proudest moment off the field?
Carrying coach Snyder off the field after his last game. Being the first in my family to graduate.
When you play Madden, what team do you use? Do you put yourself on the team?
I don't really play video games.
Who has been the biggest influence on your football career and how?
Steve Wagner, because he was my high school coach.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

few genes above a banana

cl, was your intent to insult banannas? If so, consider that mission accomplished....

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

F bananas

Calcium rulz
potassium drulz

Posted by: chrislarry | February 21, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

scamp, thanks for the update. He's intriguing...he's got good size, seems to have good hands...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Because of the lack of draft choices and cap situation, the FO needs to have a huge success with undrafted FA. Draft quality DL/OL, have confidence in our WR and RB, draft DB and make sure that WE do our homework on the Heyers that go undrafted.

Posted by: kerzon417 | February 21, 2008 10:55 AM | Report abuse

At this moment 2009 is an uncapped year.

Posted by: bangkokben | February 21, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

bangkokben, maybe you've hit on the precise reason Vinny is still around...

Snyder is drooling over the prospect of that uncapped year, and in the event it comes to pass that '09 is uncapped, Vinny is the perfect guy to execute all of Danny's wildest dreams. Vinny doesn't know how to say no to Danny, which of course is the #1 qualification for his job.

I'm picturing a bonanza of $20MM one-year deals to every single free agent, forming a one-year all-star team to be coached by... Danny himself.

Anybody got a list of 2009 free agents-to-be?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

For those of you obsessed with mocks like I am, be sure to bookmark this site:
http://hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm

It follows what all of the reputable mocks are projecting for the Skins, even into later rounds.

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Heckuva job, brownie.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 07:17 AM

--Nobody appreciates quality humour anymore!

Posted by: daggar | February 21, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

haha, i laughed at Nate's comment on that one too

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

beep beep


just kidding... haha, that was evil

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Five days sitting on this thread, only 700 comments... hmm... we have really run aground.

What's it going to take? Actual News from the Park?

jibba jabba?

maps?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

I'd much rather be the team that should've won and ended up losing rather than the team that should've lost and ended up winning.

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 09:21 AM

In all my years, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Herm, help me out here:

"You play to win the game...Hello? You play to win the game!"

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 21, 2008 10:16 AM

Way to take a comment out of context. to quote brownwood: "See what I mean about reading the post carefully?"

I said if I'm looking back on the past season, while at the same time judging my future prospects, then: I'd much rather be the team that should've won and ended up losing rather than the team that should've lost and ended up winning.

One gives you the potential for much more, the other the potential for much less.

Sorry, but your reference, "You play to win the game...Hello? You play to win the game!", doesn't really resonate with your arguments...once again.

"Wouldn't you trade a couple 5-11s now (which we've been getting in recent years anyway) for the possibilities of 12-13 win years later?"

Yea, sounds like your playing to win the game alright. Trade away some of our better players, give ourselves a couple 5-11 seasons, and possibly sometime in the future we can become a winning team again. It's logic, really.

Posted by: psps23 | February 21, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

browno...Barnwood?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the laugh, Nate-- I loved it!

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse

This year, all the best prospects (other than at the very top of the first round) are juniors.

PFT put up a mock draft today and had the Skins picking a junior CB/FS/KR from Oklahoma named Reggie Smith. New Era scouting (as of today) lists him as the #1 corner (yesterday, they had Leodis McKelvin). nfldraftcountdown doesn't even have Reggie Smith listed. Anyway, here is the data I found on the NFL Combine site:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/reggie-smith?id=2313

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Dcsween,

Scout.com has him listed a the 4th best safety in the draft he is not even ranked at CB, I have looked at alot of mock drafts and he is not even listed as a first round pick except for PFT's draft.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 21, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I am really waiting on the edge of my seat for some info on Jasno's big move. Is there any insider info on where he's moving/# of bdrms/etc.? Is he moving closer to Ashburn? Does the new house have a deck for the annual RI cookout?

Posted by: pulldownclaw | February 21, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I ve never even heard of that guy, one intreging guy is Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie but not in the first round. In pft's mock they also have calis campbell going after our pick, i think if we get the chance to get him we take him depending on how he does at the combine

Posted by: SAK2 | February 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

Footballsfuture has Reggie Smith going to the Cowgirls at #22 so I guess there is one other mock that has him as a first round pick.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

TDawg, that sound you heard was my smacking myself in the back of the damn head for making the interweb rookie mistake of not checking the source... I mean, that was a funny piece even if it's falsely attributed to Cleese, but still.

Speaking of smacks to the back of the head, where is jm220?

And where is SMACK?

pulldownclaw, maybe our inside source from longandfoster can hook us up...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse

I am here Nate. Things just been a little crazy at work.

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

See, I open my mouth about maybe going after a CB/Returner with the 1st round pick, and pretty soon it becomes interweb gospel.

sorry about that.

Did I mention we really need a punter?

Posted by: daggar | February 21, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Dang it, Nate. I just forwarded it to a bunch of peeps. Can I blame it on you when they bust my chops?

Posted by: pulldownclaw | February 21, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Yo, you all know I like to represent my guys at IU, but considering Ethan Albright's age, perhaps picking up this Hoosier long snapper prospect as a free agent pick-up after the draft could be good, I remember watching him-- Tim Bugg is a rock solid long snapper:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tim-bugg?id=2004

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

"I am here Nate. Things just been a little crazy at work."

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:38 PM

... which is jm220's polite way of saying "you guys aren't talking about anything anyway!"

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Sorry to blow the whistle, fellas! It's still funny nonetheless!

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 12:46 PM | Report abuse

No, no, I deserved it, and I appreciate it, TDawg. Besides, I know you are going to get some severe karmic payback in the form of literal whistle blowing whenever you hit the playing field.

Having said that, I don't even know what it means. Am I guessing you will be penalty-prone? Or just that you will amass a penalty history?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I think it means I'll just suck.

But that's okay.

Posted by: TDawg | February 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Report abuse

"I am here Nate. Things just been a little crazy at work."

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:38 PM

... which is jm220's polite way of saying "you guys aren't talking about anything anyway!"

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 12:45 PM
lol

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I am here Nate. Things just been a little crazy at work."

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:38 PM

... which is jm220's polite way of saying "you guys aren't talking about anything anyway!"

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 12:45 PM
lol

Posted by: jm220 | February 21, 2008 12:55 PM

Which is jm's way of saying: uh, huh.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Great news!

It looks like Zorn wants to resign Albright, Collins and Forst! Maybe not Rock though.

(somebody throw us a bone)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 1:16 PM | Report abuse

TDawg, my hopes for you are to be good enough to be a varsity ath-uh-lete and get a couple of seasons in as a starter, and then come in as an UFA (pronounced ooh fah, not uff da, Dorf) and make the Skins. Come on, a dude who didn't play college fubbal until he was getting his doctorate? Instant fan favorite, terrific back story, and etc.

The big question, and one of the only remaining questions now that this is settled, is what jersey number you'll wear.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Right here Nate, you must have missed my outstanding banana humor earlier.

Just making my beer and wine selections for tomorrow's Storm of the Century, and struggling with the Lemonheads' "Dawn Can't Decide" earworm that I can't seem to kick. It's an improvement over Tuesday's "Soak Up the Sun" earworm, but not as good as yesterday's "Cold, Cold, Cold".

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I sent Cyn City an email begging for a new thread, something to get us going again up here. I guess the whole Skins squad is mostly off this week, including her, and there's virtually no news anyway. But maybe she'll be able to throw up a new post eventually...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Ah, yes, yes, the banana thing. I get jokes.


Nick Drake "Fly"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Hazardous Blloydiation.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10451-NFL-Washington_Redskins-Brandon_Lloyd_Redskins_Problematic_Expense-210208

Pay or play?
(What haven't we covered on this thread?)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 1:23 PM | Report abuse

Nate! I love Nick Drake ... but something tells me I need to rip into you for some incoherence on your hatitude toward Steely Dan.

In other news, I've been hunting and looking and snooping and intergoogling, but I can't find the date by which the Skins have to meet the cap number. I know its gotta be soon.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Did you know that user reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site? Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site.

In other news, I believe Albright has re-signed.

Posted by: corkczar | February 21, 2008 1:35 PM | Report abuse

The Giants beat the AMAZING PATS, who steamrolled over the AFC. If I recall the 3 of the PATS toughest 4 or 5 games were against the NFC, 4 if you include the loss.

Posted by: sams3 | February 21, 2008 09:43 AM

The Pats steamrollered everyone - AFC and NFC - except for the Colts (AFC), Ravens (AFC) and Giants (NFC) so that's not quite right SAMS. Who is the other NFC team that gave the Pats a game - the Cowgrrls?

The AFC may have 1 more top-end team than the NFC, but the fall-off from those teams to the rest of the conference is much greater than it is in the NFC. I think the NFC is a lot closer to parity across the conference than the AFC is, hence the inter-conference record will always be close.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 21, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

March 2, according to this... but I have recently been warned about trusting information retrieved on the Internet.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Dcsween,

March 1, 2008-Clubs must be in compliance with the salary cap ($116 million for 2008) by 4:00 p.m. EST

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

It was the Iggles who played the Pats close this year, Redcoat. Like the Jints, they only lost by 3. Which is fewer points than the Pats' margin of victory over the, ah, Redskins.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Nate! I love Nick Drake ... but something tells me I need to rip into you for some incoherence on your hatitude toward Steely Dan.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 01:33 PM

Nick's sister Gabrielle was a real looker in her younger days too. It was a shame about him, such a waste.

I see cL was the victim of a few drive-by fruitings from the arbiter of all things known as Brano too, consider yourself chastised cHriS!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Thanks Nate, I forgot that one - they were the first guys to really take it to them. Such a shame they had Feeley behind center for that game...

Posted by: Redcoat | February 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't it the mighty Ravens that really took it to the Patriots first?

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 21, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

980 reported that Sampson has coached his last game at IU they are working on a buyout. I know we have some IU fans on here.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 21, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Nate & kmdp4, thanks ... but looking at THIS, my read is that the "league year" begins at the midnight that separates February from March (I'm not sure whether that one is called midnight on 2/29 or midnight on 3/1). http://www.nflpa.org/CBA/CBA_Complete.aspx
The definitions section is Article I ... the salary cap section is in the 20s.

Anyway, I figure that, around the end of next week, the Skins are going to have to cut one or two highly paid, older guys (or a handful of lesser paid younger ones).

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"again barno, excellent work with the cut-n-paste....good work sir!"

Posted by: chrislarry | February 20, 2008 09:21 PM

Still, I bet only one of the two of them uses the word "meme" in casual conversation.

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Wasn't it the mighty Ravens that really took it to the Patriots first?

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 21, 2008 01:45 PM

Iggles week 12, Ravens week 13. Boy didn't Brian Billick's season fall a long way from week 13!!

Posted by: Redcoat | February 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Report abuse

RC, saw a quote from Billy P about McFadden, and while it could all be a bunch of poppy-cock, he claimed not to be all that impressed by the rb from Arkansas. He did say that Ronnie's rehab was going very well...

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 2:04 PM | Report abuse

I don't think we want or need McFadden. In my opinion Parcell's is trying to build up for a trade.

Posted by: Redcoat | February 21, 2008 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Yes, sween, but the other one peppers his conversation with lots of "me me me!"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

rc, while that may be true, the person writing it, likened it to 6 teams passing on Adrian Peterson last year.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse


www.paulgoespop.typepad.com

Posted by: sportnick9 | February 21, 2008 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Romo and Jessica rumored to be engaged. Adam, can I borrow that "ARGH" for the duration of this marriage?

"Lament" - King Crimson

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 21, 2008 2:19 PM | Report abuse

And still, the drought continues...the RI gods have looked upon us with disfavor.

Posted by: fawcett007 | February 21, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Here's a vaguely sportsy topic for the group -- what's your favourite sport to fill the time between now and training camp, this brutal stretch without fubbal? And what are your fave teams, DC or other?

How many baseball dudes are up here?

College hoops? NBA? NASCAR? Hockey? Horse racing? Golf? Anything vaguely competitive?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Smack,
Romo and Jesse combine for a wunderlick score of 15. (not that those scores mean anything)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Erm, sorry, soccer?


"If I Should Fall From Grace With God," the Pogues

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

K,
I'm an Os fan. SO SUE ME.

Me likey a Beavers games from time to time too.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

Here's a vaguely sportsy topic for the group -- what's your favourite sport to fill the time between now and training camp, this brutal stretch without fubbal? And what are your fave teams, DC or other?

How many baseball dudes are up here?

College hoops? NBA? NASCAR? Hockey? Horse racing? Golf? Anything vaguely competitive?

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 02:26 PM

ACC hoops and March Madness gets me halfway home. Other than that, an occasional glimpse at NASCAR (Gibbs boys, of course) or the Wiz fill up some space.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 21, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Nate, I'll take a crack at this. The Red Sox are a close second to the Redskins as far as my loyalties go, huge Sox fan, not of the pink hat variety either. I'm also a Celtics fan, but not like I was back in the 80's. Big NASCAR fan as well, of course backing JGRacing.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I just heard on the radio that Hillary Clinton is "running as a women"....and her other options were?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Gotta go with NASCAR and some basketball. Purdue fan on the college level, and like to watch the Cavs (I live in Ohio so...)

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

I just heard on the radio that Hillary Clinton is "running as a women"....and her other options were?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 02:33 PM

Female dog.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

I just heard on the radio that Hillary Clinton is "running as a women"....and her other options were?

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 02:33 PM

I still see her running more as a Hitlery. It's hard for me to see the woman in her.

Posted by: drbatchelor | February 21, 2008 2:37 PM | Report abuse

Romo and Jessica rumored to be engaged. Adam, can I borrow that "ARGH" for the duration of this marriage?

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 21, 2008 02:19 PM

Sure SMACK - anything for a fellow blogger

Adam

Posted by: argh | February 21, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

Wait a second.....she's a woman? Since when?

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 21, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I gotta say, other than keeping a wary eye on the Wiz and Caps (who bound yet again to pull off the magic trick of both appearing to overachieve and being ultimately disappointing), and paying some mind to the Nats, I can't summon anywhere near the gusto I have the Skins, for anything else on the sports calendar.

I used to follow the NASCAR, and still root for Gibbs' guys and all the dudes who hail from the Old Dominion. And I would kind of like to pay more attention to the English football, but I'll go two weeks without thinking about it.

There sure ain't nothing like the NFL. (Capt. Obvious)


"Return of the Grievous Angel," Lucinda Williams

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

BEEP BEEP!

(for real)

Posted by: _Stumped_ | February 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Here's a vaguely sportsy topic for the group -- what's your favourite sport to fill the time between now and training camp, this brutal stretch without fubbal? ... Anything vaguely competitive?"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 02:26 PM

1. Trivia
2. Shots
3. Pool
4. Darts
5. Shots
6. Insults
7. Maps
8. Such as

Posted by: dcsween | February 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Beep Beep, like such as!

Posted by: MsTeen_South_Carolina | February 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Excellent work, sweenster.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | February 21, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

oh this is tedious.....as you all know by now I am all about the stability thing (QB and coach) for those scoring at home.....QB first, stabilty builds from there, rehashed a million times... but here is the thing if you assume campbell is the guy the other big link in the chain is the talent evaluation situation..... here a list of our immediate future, guys who are young and on our roster, this is the list we desparetly need 1. for many of these guys to further develope and become solid starers, contributors, dare say some make a probowl or to and 2.we really need to add to this list in big way..... the list is thin to begin with and the more names that don't pan out could really put us behind if we don't become better judges of talent....

1 Campbell
2.Mix
3.nemo
4. Doughty
5.Landry
6.Golsten
7.Monty
8.wilson
9 alexander
10.Mason
11 rocky mac
12. blades
13 heyer
14 swissham

feel free to discuss and slice and dice.....one man's opinion....

Posted by: Oldschool | February 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

While I doubt Campbell's ability to thrive as a quarterback in a west coast offense, we need to at least give him a chance. Therefore we need to acquire a true number one receiver (Santana Moss is not a number one receiver) and a high quality offensive lineman this year (either guard or tackle). The team has many holes on defense due to age and injuries, but I think offense should be top priority this year. We also need to realise that this team has a huge number of holes and is not young. I think this is the true reason Joe Gibbs left. He could see the writing on the wall.

Posted by: kochendj | February 21, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: F_Barno | February 21, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

A Treehouse Renewed?
This one may be better yet
the Forst be with you

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