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Two Takes On Torrence's Release

Had a chance to elicit some other opinions on the Leigh Torrence move, so I'm going to post a follow up here and then try to pretend like this really was a bye week for the schlubs, or at least this particular schlub.

One guy I spoke to thought the Skins could have parted with a guy like end Erasmus James, had him clear waivers easily, and then re-sign him down the road if need be. He mentioned that with the Skins unsure of Jason Taylor's calf, maybe they were scared to part with an end (though they still have Rob Jackson and Chris Wilson as depth). But this guy would have cut James.

He thinks Torrence is very solid as a depth corner and special teams guy, and though not anything spectacular, is one of your 53 best guys. Rookie corner Justin Tryon is someone he thought could end up back on your practice squad, too, if you cut him. The Skins drafted him in the fourth round, but this scout's team had him as a seventh-rounder/free agent, and since the draft I spoke to people with 5 teams about him, and no one had him above a sixth-round grade.

I spoke to another personnel guy who said that Torrence would probably be the 52nd or 53rd guy on his roster, and basically understood why the Skins made the move, though he too thought that James was showing no signs of being able to help you much.

He scouted Torrence and was put off by his lack of tackling acumen. "He's a smart kid and I hear good things about him and he's pretty good in coverage, but I don't like the way he tackles," he said. "That's something I can't really get beyond. That's probably why they let him go."

This scout said that Tryon could end up having the very same problems as a small corner - "Guys might bounce right off of him and keep going, too," and Tryon could turn out to be not as good as Torrence in coverage. "But they probably knew what they had in Torrence and think that Tryon can give them that, too," the scout said. "Torrence's contract is up and they've got the rookie for four more years, so I understand that. You have to give the kid a chance to succeed, and a chance to fail, before you let him go."

This scout said his team did not like Torrence coming out of the draft, but obviously the Skins did, so you give him a shot on special teams and in the defense if need be, and then evaluate down the road.

Like me, this scout thought you could cut veteran safety Mike Green and get him back if need be, but he, like me, also likes how Green is playing in this defense, and the Skins don't have an abundance of safeties (though Springs can switch to free safety whenever necessary). He said that while he does not like Shaun Alexander, the Skins were smart not to cut him until/unless need be.

"Portis is banged up, Betts is still out, and the running back market is dried up," the scout said. "There's nothing out there at all. Denver is going through two a week. I don't like Alexander, but if he's on the street and I need one, I'd probably sign him. It's all about supply and demand."

The Redskins are still holding out hope rookie WR Malcolm Kelly gets healthy - they have told the kid they won't make a decision to place him on IR or not until seeing how he practices next week - and might be just delaying the inevitable there. But this scout pointed out that as another position with a real dearth of talent out there on the street.

And both scouts agreed that, especially with corners like Springs, Smoot and Rogers all missing practice with regularity with one injury or the other, that Tryon will have to be a guy to step up if need be.

"Obviously, they think the rookie can play, and, at least on special teams, he might to start making some plays now," the second scout said. "Someone has to replace Torrence there."

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 8, 2008; 3:36 PM ET
 
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Next: Weigh in on Hall

Comments

The problem with Thomas/Kelly is 2-fold:

1) It looks like they are living up to the criticisms/fears that folks had about them coming out fo the draft. Kelly was knocked as being "brittle" and now it looks like his place is on IR.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

The same thing was said about Rocky McIntosh, and he has become a BEAST!

Knee injuries can happen to anyone. Let's see if a gem has fallen to the second round.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Yes...let's wait and see. In the mean time let's not act like we got a steal in the 2nd round with this guy. Let's not even act like he's capable of contributing this year. Let's admit that, so far, he's not in the same class as Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal or DeSean Jackson - guys who all look like legit bonafide starters in the league.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Leave it to LaCanfora to spend WAY more time focusing on the uninteresting Torrence release than the Hall signing.

Posted by: cali_snowboarder | November 8, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Hall is younger(he turns 25 in the next couple of weeks), he's already been to the pro-bowl twice, he has good hands, has something like 20 career INT's. Torrence has 0 over 4 1/2 years.

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse
============================================
Also, Hall is fast. He wasn't scheduled to be in the NFL fastest man contest at some Pro Bowl, but when an onlooker talked some smack, he warmed up and ran in it.

And won.

You can coach technique, but not speed.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | November 8, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Yes...let's wait and see. In the mean time let's not act like we got a steal in the 2nd round with this guy. Let's not even act like he's capable of contributing this year. Let's admit that, so far, he's not in the same class as Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal or DeSean Jackson - guys who all look like legit bonafide starters in the league.

Posted by: p1funk | November 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Report abuse

But what if he is able to contribute this year? JZ is giving his knee 2 weeks to settle down. Presumably the medical staff doesn't see anything wrong with the knee. We've got 7 games regular season, plus hopefully 4 more is post-season. He could be a big red-zone go-to guy if the knee will cooperate. So the coaches want to give him a little time to heal. If it still is bothering him, then he goes on IR. Fortunately, we haven't needed him so far. Yes, it would have been nice to have someone fresh for when SM's hammy was twitching. But who is out there that would make a difference?

Posted by: frediefritz | November 8, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Leave it to JLC to put a negative light and spin on a move that really improved the defense.....My God...the Pats, Gianst and Steelers wanted him too!....

JLC I don't know what your problem is...But you need a new job...If you think by upsetting the fan base who read the post helps your blog by the hits...fine...But I think your a punk.

So you found one player who was a close friend and is upset by the release...I find it hard to believe the whole team is upset as a whole.....It's pretty obvisous over the last few years you seek out people who say what you want to write about.....SO how many players did you ask about the move before you got your negative you were looking for???????????????

Posted by: leevi98 | November 8, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

jesus christ really?

this is a bottom-of-the-barrel player

I liked Torrence, he seemed to be an okay guy

but I've seen people asking if this is going to ruin team chemistry? It's the NFL, players are gonna get cut. The dude might even clear waivers, but I wouldn't count on it.

This guy just seemed to be there when he was on the field. He never did anything to impress me.


and you know what, I'm 100% for keeping the rookie over this guy. So the fudge what? Rookies are drafted on potential.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

also that's BS about people having Tryon undrafted or 6th round


I'm sorry that's just not true

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Bottom line is.....Who cares who they cut...It Was Torrence.... he was such and impact player on the six wins and we just can't live without him....and once again...

JLC will you please join the Redskins coaching staff so we can go to the superbowl.....You are so wise....I mean you pointed out for 4 years Joe Gibbs' short comings....You are now showing us the negative way of Zorn.....and the choices made...Please Help JLC your our only hope...

Posted by: leevi98 | November 8, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Also...Cutting Torrence was such and impast move that JLC's blog is the only place this is even being reported!

Posted by: leevi98 | November 8, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Consider this: Torrence was ok, not terrific, but ok, at what he did. Play nickel, and serve as cover guy on Punt coverage. Did he ever truly kick butt in these roles? I think any fair analysis says , no, he did not. Can Tryon do as good, or nearly as good as Torrence in these roles?? My answer is yes... he could. Torrence needed to down balls inside the 10 when given the chance. He didn't. Perhaps Tryon can if he is asked to do so...my guess is that Hall will be asked to assume this role.

Now to my real point: I think Torrence was let go because it was a near push football wise but makes much more sense roster/financially. My assumption is that Tryon will be under contract longer than Torrence would have been. So, you keep a guy that will not need to be negotiated with, and let a guy go who you would have to resign or address as a free agent. Chances are, you would lose him anyway to a team who was looking for corner help and wanted to give Torence a chance to start. He was never gonna get that chance here with Rogers and Hall in front of him irrespective of what happens with Springs and Smoot. Redskins kept a guy who is younger, faster, with more upside, and signed for a longer period for less money than the guy they released. In a business, that is good business. Redskins kept a younger faster guy over an older slower guy. The Redskins have been attempting to get there roster younger and faster since Zorn signed on. It has been a noticeable shift in philosophy since Saint Joe retired again. I htink the redskisn are looking to build for a 2-4 yrar run at the SB and have been pleasantly surprised with how well things have moved along this eyar and that they have a chance to make a run. But, the strategy remains: Get younger and faster.

And in a humanitarian spin: Redskins have given Torrence an opportunity to sign on with a team that may value him much, much more than the Redskins ever will. He has a chance to step in on a club that needs DB help and contribute every down, and to be paid as such.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 8, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Leave it to LaCanfora to spend WAY more time focusing on the uninteresting Torrence release than the Hall signing.

Posted by: cali_snowboarder | November 8, 2008 3:45 PM |

I thought it was interesting, but these "scouts" don't know anything. They don't watch Tryon in practice, so what difference does it make where they would have drafted him coming out of college?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I think it is interesting. If any of you have an reading comprehension skills you would see that the second scout quoted in the blog had a fairly positive spin on the personel decision. Instead you just reflexively flip out and act like someone stole your lunch money. Get a life folks.

Posted by: Ehren | November 8, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

"I thought it was interesting, but these "scouts" don't know anything. They don't watch Tryon in practice, so what difference does it make where they would have drafted him coming out of college?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 8, 2008 4:15 PM"


there's a good point. What does where we drafted Tryon have ANYTHING to do with this topic at all?

This is about picking up DeAngelo Hall and dropping Leigh Torrence, yet we've gone back to which round of the draft we picked Justin Tryon in?

Am I missing something?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Instead you just reflexively flip out and act like someone stole your lunch money. Get a life folks.

Posted by: Ehren | November 8, 2008 4:18 PM

Are you kidding? That's what this place is for.

Posted by: Curzon417 | November 8, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

And all these scouts had Horton rated as 7th or undrafted obviously. You don't think they would change that rating now? Who gives a sh*t what these scouts think? My guess is one of them is the dude we fired that went to Philly. Neither Torrence or Tryon would be seeing the field with DHall now in the mix so it really doesn't matter.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Not a bad post at all JLC, I'm very agreeable to both points. Everyone evaluator will have different opinions on different players. Like was pointed out by someone already, Horton obviously wasn't really scouted well by ANYBODY, or he'd have been drafted much higher than he was.

Torrence was "the 52nd or 53rd guy on the roster", obviously that's how the Skins felt, the coaches, the one's making the decisions. And as has been pointed out over and over again, Tryon is still an umproven guy, good or bad, while Torrence was entirely know, he is who they thought he is.

Good moves overall I think. I am still concerned about Betts though, and I'd like to see JLC get us some "insider" info on him.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

What does Tryon have over Torrence--speed? Special teams skills? Experience? Pretty much it is only the "draft pick" label. So far his long suit is merely "potential" because he has not been good enough to beat out anyone for playing time, even with all the injuries to the corners. I don't see how keeping Tryon over Torrence is a net plus for this team at this point. Drafting a small corner can be good if they have the speed and heart of a Darrell Green, but so far all I have heard from Tryon is just the mouth of Smoot.

Posted by: driley | November 8, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Enough already. This is like the Chick-Fil-A cows that can't spell chickin

Posted by: captjim | November 8, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Lets see,Oct 12,2008 Skins lead St.Louis Rams 17-16 with under two minutes to go 3rd and fifteen right around midfield or therabouts Marc Bolger hits rookie receiver Donnie Avery with a forty three yard pass over Leigh Torrence who appears to have lost Avery in coverage and inexplicably Avery had to come back for the ball because it was underthrown and Torrence says he was shocked by his release, PLEASE!! now while i empathy for his being unemployed his release is not surprising, he was expendable.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 8, 2008 5:07 PM | Report abuse

dargregmag,

In Torrence's defense, he was not supposed to be left alone to cover Avery on that play....a blitz was called but someone missed their assignment. Blache said it was not Torrence's fault.

Posted by: Lisa_R | November 8, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

People who play fantasy football aren't really "scouts" JLC.

Posted by: Brian_P_McConnell | November 8, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

...excellent blogalogue...but...much ado anout nothing...doubtful that lt would be the SuperBowl MVP...

Posted by: bobeaston | November 8, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

There's a bunch of guys just like Torrence out there, get over it people. I mean we're talking about a corner who is 5th on the depth chart?

Ask the Rams how he covers, I'm sure they like him a bunch.

And it's not like he was doing anything "special" on special teams either. Just ask Reggie Bush how he tackles.

The Skin's signed Hall for crying out loud, good job Skin's. You finally did something right. You got a top tier corner, gave up NO picks, and signed him for cheap.

It kills me to say that, but Vinny did something good.

The Skin's are thin at safety and RB right now. And for what it's worth, you NEVER release a DE over a DB. Now you can move Springs to safety OR corner and play Hall and Rogers together, with Springs as nickle. Smoot is not what he was before he left to go "Love Boating" in Minnesota, but now he's your 4th corner. That's some scary depth right there.

Why are we even having this debate?

Leigh "I lost the Rams game for us because I have no cover presense" Torrence. It's a 54 man roster and GM's are saying he's 53rd on thier rosters? Please.

I think it was Bill Walsh who said something to the effect the last dozen or so players on any team were interchangable.

A dime a dozen.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | November 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

"What does Tryon have over Torrence--speed?"

Actually, yes.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

What does Tryon have over Torrence--speed? Special teams skills? Experience? Pretty much it is only the "draft pick" label. So far his long suit is merely "potential" because he has not been good enough to beat out anyone for playing time, even with all the injuries to the corners. I don't see how keeping Tryon over Torrence is a net plus for this team at this point. Drafting a small corner can be good if they have the speed and heart of a Darrell Green, but so far all I have heard from Tryon is just the mouth of Smoot.

Posted by: driley | November 8, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Tryon DOES have more speed than Torrence. But the bigger question is the long term one. Was Torrence even CAPABLE of getting any better? Probably NOT. Is Tryon CAPABLE of getting better, ABSOLUTELY. It's as simple as that. Plus, he's cheaper to keep. And Considering Hall makes the Skins FOUR deep at corner (all four are capable of starting in the NFL), let's be realistic, Tryon still isn't going to see the field much on defense. What team is going to go FIVE wide on us with any regularity? Blache likes to use the "big nickel" (I think he calls it "cobra") where they use an extra safety rather than a fifth corner. The reason Tryon hasn't been on the field much up to now is this fact already. With Springs out the last several weeks, Tryon has been active but hasn't been on the field. Why? Cause Blache doesn't want to use a fourth corner let alone a FIFTH.

I understand some of the angst, but really, this is a FOURTH string player we're talking about here. What's the big deal? Zorn and Blache have it under control.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 5:42 PM | Report abuse

It just seems so strange to me to second-guess the coaches on something like this where you don't have any information except one pre-season game.

Posted by: talent_evaluator

It's not just one preseason game. Every game this season Torrence has been higher on the depth chart than Tryon. Every game this season, Torrence has been a mainstay on special teams while Tryon has been sporadic.

If Tryon is showing better than Torrence, why was he not playing? It's not like Torrence is some seasoned veteran with savvy tricks up his sleeve to be effective (like say James Thrash in playing over a clearly superior talent in Devin Thomas). Torrence is still a relatively young and relatively inexperienced corner, and the coaches trusted him time and time again over Tryon (they even trusted him last year more than they trust Tryon this year).

Your opinion is based on very little film. The coaches have much more film to work with as well as watching them practice and film from the practices. For me, it's a no brainer to take the opinion of the coaches on this over anyone on this blog who thinks they know more.

Posted by: Curzon417

Again, as said above, my opinion is not based on "very little film". My opinion is based on who the coaches have thought was the better player the entire season. This isn't the case of releasing an old veteran for a young guy with potential. This is a case of releasing a currently more effective young guy for another currently less effective young guy.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 5:44 PM | Report abuse

i think its hilarious how much debate this has gotten. torrence has not shown anything on the field, you pick up bonafide starter. why not keep the young rookie, he can only get better, and release the guy that has already gotten to the top of his game.

torrence is always chasing, just like doughty. and both will be gone soon enough. its business

Posted by: scottherbert5 | November 8, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Was Torrence even CAPABLE of getting any better? Probably NOT. Is Tryon CAPABLE of getting better, ABSOLUTELY. It's as simple as that.

Posted by: craig2

I don't understand this. Why is Torrence not capable of getting any better? A 26 year-old with 2 years of playing experience has peaked? Really? I hope nobody is expecting anything more out of Jason Campbell...

Outside of Donnie Avery (who had 1 big catch in 1v1 coverage), what 3rd or 4th WR has done anything to this skins this year (that has been covered by Torrence)? Who has burned Leigh Torrence this season as so many claim (please, specific examples)?

The truth is that Torrence has been an exemplary nickel and dime back for this team. You can't ask for more out of a guy in his position. But for some reason, he gets cut while a rookie that looked awful in preseason, has been inactive multiple times this season (without injury), and hasn't been trusted with any responsibility whatsoever by the coaches gets to keep his roster spot. Do you really not question this move?

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Lets see,Oct 12,2008 Skins lead St.Louis Rams 17-16 with under two minutes to go 3rd and fifteen right around midfield or therabouts Marc Bolger hits rookie receiver Donnie Avery with a forty three yard pass over Leigh Torrence who appears to have lost Avery in coverage and inexplicably Avery had to come back for the ball because it was underthrown and Torrence says he was shocked by his release, PLEASE!! now while i empathy for his being unemployed his release is not surprising, he was expendable.

Posted by: dargregmag

You've got one example for the entire season.

How about this one. November 2, Fed Ex field, Byron Leftwich throws a pass to Hines Ward with Carlos Rogers covering him. Rogers appears to have lost Ward in coverage and inexplicably Ward has to come back to the ball because it was underthrown. Rogers was shocked by this, grabbed Ward prior to the ball arriving, and it resulted in a big play pass interference.

I guess that makes Rogers expendable.

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

spizzle -- your logic is valid, but one thing you aren't taking into account is the possiblity that the coaches have been using Torrence on 'teams' over Tryon JUST BECAUSE he's the vet between the two. The simple trust factor could have as much to do with it as ANYTHING ELSE. Not just simple ability.

And maybe the coaches decided it was time to put more on Tryon since a change HAD to be made now. No changes were necessary before.

Just a few thoughts. It might not really be about the simple "this guy is better than that guy". I say this because I do know that Torrence didn't have much on Tryon from a "coverage" corner standpoint, Torrence was turned around way too often, but while TRyon was getting beaten in the pre-season, his man was NEVER out of reach, the tackle was always made immediately.

That's an improvement in skill to me.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I only question the move based on the fact it wasn't Shaun Alexander that was cut.

And that's because now I'm concerned about Bett's knee injury.

And NO, I think Torrence is done getting better, but not from a "learning standpoint", but from a physical talent standpoint. He lacks speed, lacks size, lacks hands, and really shown much in the way of instincts. What else is going to make him good enough to get excited about?

Tryon has speed, has shown good instincts, plays physical, and isn't afraid to tackle anybody. He is small, but his UPSIDE is so far beyond what I see from Torrence it isn't a fair comparison.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse

craig2 - I really don't think this is a big deal at all, as obviously Hall will be an upgrade over either Torrence or Tryon. It's just that I don't get where all this Torrence bashing is coming from. And I don't think the coaches or Vinny have this omniscient, infallible ability to evaluate what's best for the team. I think the Brooks experiment proved that.

Plain and simple, I think it was the wrong move to cut Torrence. You never know what will happen - Springs still isn't back, and Smoot can go down in a heartbeat. Would you really want Tryon as your 3rd corner right now, regardless of how unlikely that scenario may be?

Posted by: spizzle | November 8, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Don't want Tryon getting exposed that much NO MORE than I did with Torrence. I really didn't see much difference between the two. Torrence has the experience that Tryon doesn't have. Tryon has more athleticism, honestly, I think it's a wash. I don't want either one being a number ONE or TWO, but three on back, OK with me.

I also don't have as much "doubt" in the staff as you, so that has something to do with it.
Not that any of them is infallible, but I have seen some pretty negative stuff from you before, and I know that we don't agree on that topic. So that is probably as much as our disagreement as anything.

As I have said to you before, at least you seem to THINK before you post, many don't bother doing that.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Note to Spizzle: Leigh Torrence was a reserve not on the field for every snap its not like Avery was a pro bowler he was a ROOKIE!! i'll give Carlos the benefit of the doubt he's on field the whole game making tackles,defeding passes,etc.but Torrence? not ragging on the guy just saying he should have not been shocked.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 8, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey RI...

Why are we wasting two postings on Leigh Torrence?

Posted by: rickyroge | November 8, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

Wow you guys are tough. I have to admit I didn't read the JLC take on it because I swore I would never read another word he wrote after the call to the league idiocy he pulled earlier, but I would not have cut Leigh Torrence. I guess the thought is that they only have X number of spots on the team for CB's and one of them had to go. If one of them had to go I vote Justin Tryon since he can't even be trusted to return punts and he cant cover me! If we had drafted him where every scout, including ours, had him projected, from 6- unsigned FA, he would already have been cut, so why hold on to him now. The draft is done, live with the decision and take your lumps.

To be honest I would have bet good money that it was going to be Erasmus James, with a small thought that they finally would give up on the 2008 wait and hope story that is Malcolm Kelley and put him on IR. I would agree with most on here that Torrence was no world beater by any means, but with the injury chances we have at corner, replacing one healthy player with another really does not help in the injury war of attrition. A very real possibility is that Springs never gets healthy, and Fred Smoot finally stubs his toe hard enough to miss a game. What then? You would rather have Rodgers, Hall, and Tryon out there? And though Rodgers is having a very nice year (absent the hands of stone of course) he is coming off knee surgery and it is this time of year when the legs get tired, that reconstructed parts have a hard time holding up the first year bacl. No, DB was not the place to cut. Is it possible it was a salary cap thing? Did we give somebody a bonus we couldn't eat if we cut them?

Posted by: dbrine1261 | November 8, 2008 6:49 PM | Report abuse

I honestly don't see what the big issue is. Torrence sucked, he got cut, that's what happen when you suck. We got a someone who at the very very least is better than Torrence, end of story. No need for the James Bond, MI6/CIA rouge investigative reporting for this story.

All the other positions that the other players mentioned in this article are needed for depth. That's why we kept James, Alexander, Jackson, and Tyron. (A source known as common sense who is close to the situation, disclosed this to me on the hush on the condition that The Washington Post might realize that the author of this article has once again wasted their money and readers time writing it.)

Posted by: clark202 | November 8, 2008 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Oh just for the record, though Torrence was the CB covering on that last play against the Rams. The play was lost when our other rookie DB was in the game purely to blitz and decided not to blitz, or cover anyone either. There was noone standing in front of him and it was the perfect call. Everyone else did their job taking up all the blockers and this guy just had to run in and tackle Bolger - Game Over. He didnt, so Bolger had all day and found his man down field after 6 seconds. Anything over 3 and NFL QB's find their man most of the time. Anyway, no excuse for Torrence not looking back for the ball, but if the play goes at it was drawn up, we aren't having this conversation at all. Good luck Leigh. Thanks for the hard work, and I hope you catch on and draw a paycheck somewhere the rest of the season.

Posted by: dbrine1261 | November 8, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse

Torrence I hope you get picked up by the girls, the g-men, or eagles so that Santana can smoke you in the fourth quarter. Happy Trails!

Posted by: clark202 | November 8, 2008 7:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow...you'd think the LT we cut was LaDainian Tomlinson and not Leigh Torrence! Dude was like the 3rd or 4th worst player on the active roster! If our secondary's success rests on the gamble that Hall is better than Torrence then I'm going all in.

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 8, 2008 7:24 PM | Report abuse

"This scout said his team did not like Torrence coming out of the draft, but obviously the Skins did, so you give him a shot on special teams and in the defense if need be, and then evaluate down the road."

Pretty sure it should say the scout did not like Tryon coming out of the draft, not Torrence.

Posted by: kreitmaster | November 8, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Rashad Johnson (Alabama) is a BEAST.

Posted by: captjim | November 8, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

I got no beef with Leigh, he was a very, very average player.

But next year we were most likely gonna draft a corner in the 1st or 3rd round. And honestly if we had traded a 3rd round pick for Hall yesterday I wouldn't have been too upset with it.

But say Hall isn't in the picture, we go into the offseason and draft Malcom Jenkins in the first round. Then we're gonna want to cut Torrence IF Jenkins is good enough at this level, and we're doing the wait-and-see game with the rookies that we all love so much around here.

Instead we got a guy that at the very worst is STILL better than Torrence, period. We eliminated the need to draft him.

And the whole thing Tryon Vs. Torrence. UPSIDE. Tryon has it. We've pretty much seen Torrence's physical peak. Again I got no problem with Torrence and I'm not gonna blame the St. Louis game on him, but he's a 3rd/4th corner for a reason.

And maybe now we'll have Tryon on the field and maybe Tryon will make some plays for us? I'm not expecting it at all, but you never know. What if Tryon starts playing well? Then was it a bad idea?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

"This scout said his team did not like Torrence coming out of the draft, but obviously the Skins did, so you give him a shot on special teams and in the defense if need be, and then evaluate down the road."

Pretty sure it should say the scout did not like Tryon coming out of the draft, not Torrence.

Posted by: kreitmaster

========================================
I agree Kreitmaster, especially since we got him from the Falcons. He probably lost out to Hall there too.

Posted by: clark202 | November 8, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

Rashad Johnson (Alabama) is a BEAST.

Posted by: captjim | November 8, 2008 7:29 PM


Funny. I watched that game and thought the WR for Alabama - Julio Jones #8 - could start for the Skins right now. Never went down on first contact and great hands.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 8, 2008 7:43 PM | Report abuse

AJ Green from UGA and Julio Jones from BAMA will both be first round picks and both will be amazing NFL players.


If you're choosing between the two, it's basically take your pick a young Randy Moss or a young TO.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | November 8, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

dbrine -- "where every scout, including ours, had him projected, from 6- unsigned FA"

Where the hell did you get this? It's good to see someone who knows so much more than EVERYBODY ELSE in the NFL world.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

Well, I'm not on here every day, so I may miss some really crazy entries by Jasno, but from what I HAVE witnessed, this latest - two entries of hand-wringing over Leigh Torrence being cut (Leigh Torrence!) makes Jasno a candidate for the Most Intellectually Myopic Analysis Of The Year Award, a dubious honor at best.

I mean, kee-rist! This is akin to crying in your beer because Rob Schneider has never won an Oscar for Best Actor in a comedy.

Get off it already, Jasno.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 8, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse

I mean, kee-rist! This is akin to crying in your beer because Rob Schneider has never won an Oscar for Best Actor in a comedy.

Get off it already, Jasno.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 8, 2008 8:23 PM | Report abuse


Very good, LOL, very good!!!

Posted by: craig2 | November 8, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

simple, tryon rookie that has the potential you drafted him for, mediocre veteran in the last year of his deal that can't cover, tackle, or down a punt. Is he better than Tryon right now? probably, does it matter? no

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 8, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm. Didn't see that coming, but I'm guessing the Skins' decision-making had nothing to do with Tryon (or James or Kelly for that matter) and everything to do with Hall ... that they saw more upside IN WHAT'S LEFT OF THIS SEASON in having Hall as the nickel corner rather than Torrence.

Still, I see Torrence playing elsewhere next week ... definitely special teams, probably nickel CB. Some teams are VERY LOW on corners.

Hasta Leighvista, we hardly knew ye!

[This conspiracy theorist says he got canned for his overt politics, but that's the conspiracy dcsween, not the amateur GM dcsween.]

Posted by: dcsween | November 8, 2008 9:22 PM | Report abuse

Straightforward call. If you think you'll need a safety this year, you keep Torrence because he can play in this scheme. If you think about the future, they obviously feel Tryon has upside that Torrence doesn't.

As for the play vs the Rams, Torrence had good coverage, one on one, with a guy who is pretty good. Avery made a good move on the ball. We saw Rogers get called for pass interference against Pittsburgh on a similar underthrow last week.

I've said I'm down on this move -- it took a long time and real effort to get a character roster. Bringing in Hall and cutting a character guy like Torrence -- instead of guys like James or Tryon -- not liking that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 8, 2008 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Well you knew that they were going to release someone to make room on the roster for Hall. They had to let Torrence go due to the numbers. Either way signing Hall is an upgrade over Torrence. If and I say If he can come in and go along with the program he can still be one of the best corners in the nfl. Along with Springs, Smoot, and Rogers this has to be one of the best secondary's in the nfl. Question is can they play together and get needed interceptions.

Posted by: bigjofc | November 8, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn and others in management were a little more upset by the "biased" voter registration than they said to the press. They did kick the guy out after all, and I got the impression he was invited by Torrence. You may laugh, but that's my take. The dude played 25 games over the last 2 seasons. Ridiculous.

Posted by: filmjoy | November 8, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

From a business perspective, this is a no-brainer:
You cut the guy who you know overachieves to be, at best, average and his contract is up...
You keep the guy who has the upside and 4 years to prove it.

From a football and team chemistry perspective, this is a bad move. You should reward the overachievers/special teamers.

This is why Cerrato has no business running a football team.

Posted by: jgarrisn | November 8, 2008 10:53 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe they cut Campbell to sign Hall.

Oh wait it was Leigh Torrence.

Grind your axe somewhere else J Caca.

Posted by: IHateJLC | November 8, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

The most glaring discrepancy in this mook's "reporting" is his lack of balanced critique from his "sources." OK. So he had two "scouts" comment, one of whom didn't think the Torrence cut was a good move, and another who thought it was understandable, but still probably not the best move.

I'm certain I could call up scouts around this league right now and find 1 (more than 1, I'm sure, probably dozens) who would give me the following assessment re cutting Torrence to sign DeAngelo Hall for $492K:

Scout: "Good move. I would have made it too."

Somehow, those guys never make it into Balmer Jasno's blog entries.

I don't care if he hates the Skins or not, but strictly from a journalist's viewpoint, his writing is sloppy, his sourcing is questionable, he cherry-picks facts in order to bolster his preconceived views, and that makes him an embarrassment to a paper like the Washington Post.

If he wrote for the Hagerstown Herald-Mail (which is probably where he belongs), it wouldn't be a big deal.

The dude is a joke.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 8, 2008 11:35 PM | Report abuse

in defense of JLC, it is his job to report whats going on, and this is the news today. Theres been a lot of talk about who would get cut after the Hall acquisition, so this article isnt exactly out of left field. On top of that, while Leigh Torrence might not have had any star power, losing him is worthy of discussion because he was a good guy. Within the organization he was respected and well-liked, and for me that matters. if my memory is correct, he was the one that registered 16 of his teammates to vote in this past election, 14 of them first-time voters. i for one am sad that it was Torrence to be cut, and please know that he will be missed. I wish him all the luck in the world.

Posted by: tanafan | November 8, 2008 11:43 PM | Report abuse

does jasno get paid by the word????!!?? Because I see no other reason to waste a week off.

Also agree with sween...this move was totally cuz they didn't like Leigh's politics...speaking of bama...I hate their coach...was seriously rooting for lsu...


Posted by: dealer1 | November 8, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

Rumor has it that Anthony Mix was cut because he was a fervent Ron Paul supporter.

Oh, the humanity!

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 9, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse

For the record, nobody is arguing that Torrence is better than Hall. People are arguing that Torrence is better than Tryon, and if you chose to release a DB, Tryon should have been #1 on that list.

Believe in all the "upside" you want from Tryon, but Torrence was a proven solid nickel-back and a damn good dime-back. As a 5th CB, he would be a downright luxury. Every game this year Torrence was trusted with infinitely more responsibility on the field than Tryon (both in the defense and on special teams), so it's obvious that the coaches feel Torrence was the better player. And he proved it on the field. He's played in every game this year, and played a good number snaps in each, but the only play people can seem to recall that he was beat on was in 1v1 coverage in a great play by the WR adjusting and diving to catch an underthrown ball. One play the entire season. Not bad to me.

IMO, Tryon was kept with the hopes that one day he'd improve to become as good as Torrence. That's about it. There's no way anybody seriously thinks Tryon, even at his maximum, will be anything better than a nickelback. The error in judgment is that we already had one of those. He was young-ish (26), wasn't declining anytime soon, and played for the vet minimum. As I've heard so many times on this blog, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This was a move that unnecessarily tried to fix a perfectly functional part of the team (unnecessary because Torrence didn't have to be cut for Hall to sign).

Posted by: spizzle | November 9, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse

Criminey...some of you obviously need to have it spelled out for you again:

1. Hall was signed
2. Hall can start over Smoot at 2CB
3. Hall can start over Smoot at Nickel
4. Smoot can start over Torrence at anything.
5. With the addition of another CB to the roster, Torrence and Tryon became expendable and ONE of them had to go.
6. Tryon is a rookie, with numerous years remaining under contract, and ATHLETICALLY, better than Torrence.
7. Torrence is a free agent at the end of the year and is probably not going to be here anyway...and if he is here, would cost more than Tryon WHO IS ALREADY LOCKED UP for multiple years.
8. Its an absolute no brainer business move... cut Torrence. Duh. Its like sloughing off in Pinochle...you throw away what has the least value...Torrence had less value because of the relative contract issues between him and Tryon. Period.
9. Dropping another postion player from the roster to carry an extra CB would be ASSININE. At worst, Green would go...but then you are cutting into your safties to carry an extra corner which upsets the balance of the roster albeit less retardedly than cutting a DE, WR, RB, OL(one of you morons actally mentioned releasing Rinehart...unbelievable) or any of the other positions some of you advocates were advocating.

PS. North Shore was a blast today.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 9, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse

SkinsfaninKaneohe

Amen. This is such an easy move. In essence we get a two-time pro bowler for a decent Special Teamer. I wish him well but this one is easy.

Posted by: jandlml | November 9, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse

++++ Marc Bolger hits rookie receiver Donnie Avery with a forty three yard pass over Leigh Torrence who appears to have lost Avery in coverage and inexplicably Avery had to come back for the ball because it was underthrown and Torrence says he was shocked by his release

Posted by: dargregmag |+++

You make a good point. Forget Torrence, the skins should have drafted Avery.

Posted by: TheCork | November 9, 2008 2:39 AM | Report abuse


The Vinny supporters are out in force about what an ingenious pickup Hall is. He's the savior. Torrence never was any good, and Kelly will singlehandedly win the Superbowl.

Scouts don't know squat and neither does JLC.

But remember Vinny took THREE second round receivers who can't get on the field, and brought in Mix and Mcullen and they got cut.

He drafted Tryon, who can't even get on teams and was lit up in preseason, and Vinny is a genius for picking up Horton. SEVENTH round. He lucked into the guy.

He solved the DE problems by bringing in Taylor and Erasmus James.

Just WHAT gives you confidence signing Deangelo Hall is an act of genius?


Posted by: TheCork | November 9, 2008 2:49 AM | Report abuse

What is going on here, people?

I have nothing against Torrence. I wish him the best and appreciate his contributions. But some of the posters are acting as if the Redskins cut Monk, Green, Jurgy, Kilmer or Riggo. Calm down, everybody. If dropping Torrence ruins this team, then it wasn't much of a team to begin with.

From what I read, Torrence is a good guy, and he was able to do some good things. But he isn't the heart of the team. The NFL is brutal, on and off the field, and players are cut. I'm sure he'll be picked up, especially if he's as valuable as some panic-stricken fans and the beat reporter say he is.

Remember this: Torrence has been able to make a lot more money than 95 percent of us, so it's not like he's headed for the gutter.

If this wasn't a bye week, it wouldn't be such a big deal. La Canfora is starving for a story. I look forward to seeing a true reporter on this beat one day.

I'm a third-generation Redskins fan, and I'm as addicted to the team as anybody. Why else would I be on this site at 4 a.m.? I've been through some of the worst moments in franchise history. To name three from my formative years: 1975, the Mel Gray phantom touchdown pass in St. Louis; 1975, the Cowboys crush the Redskins 31-10 in a wild-card elimination game; 1979, the 35-34 debacle in Dallas. It can't get any lower than those losses.

La Canfora has gotten me stirred up, which was his goal, I'm sure. He doesn't understand this team or its history.

Let's keep things in perspective. The Redskins didn't cut a running back, receiver or defensive end because there are major injury concerns at those positions. It's as simple as that.

If the Redskins miss the playoffs because they cut Torrence, then Washington didn't belong in the playoffs.

Posted by: gaspeny | November 9, 2008 3:55 AM | Report abuse

Cork, your an idiot.

Posted by: craig2 | November 9, 2008 6:59 AM | Report abuse

JLC = tub of goo

Posted by: PASkinsFan2 | November 9, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse

OK then, now for the predictions game ... where does Torrence land?

I say this was a post-trade deadline secret trade and Torrence is playing as a Raider next week ... and that in the post season, Al Davis gets a ham sandwich and a foot massage from the Executive Vice President, Mr. Cerrato.

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:06 AM | Report abuse

Also in the predictions category, I say that NEXT season, Torrence has a Walt Clark year after everyone figures out that Torrence was in the "wrong system" for his skill set.

[OK, I'm not really saying that, but I was SHOCKED at how good a player Walt Clark turned out to be in San Fran AFTER he left Ashburn.]

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:11 AM | Report abuse

OK then, now for the predictions game ... where does Torrence land?

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:06 AM |

Well, this depends on which Jasno La Canfora you choose to believe. On Thursday Jasno wrote about special teams breakdowns, citing Leigh Torrence by name for arriving late and letting punts roll into the end zone. In today's paper, though, Leigh Torrence is the glue that held the Washington special teams together. "Torrence has played a central role on some kicking units and was popular with players and coaches for his intellect, positive attitude, willingness to learn and improving play."

So, Thursday's Torrence will end up on the scrap heap, working at Jiffy Lube. Sunday's Torrence has already been claimed off waivers by 31 other teams in the league. The official announcement will come later today that he has been awarded to the team with the worst record -- the Detroit Lions at 0-8. Maybe he'd be better off at Jiffy Lube?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 9, 2008 7:20 AM | Report abuse

If not Oakland, then Torrence lands at one of the teams jilted by Hall: Jets, Ravens, or Pats. Baltimore means shortest commute, but from Torrence's perspective, its a rest-of-season job (b/c McAlister returns next season), same with the deal in New England. Smart money says the Jets. Anybody want to put some dumb money on this?

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:30 AM | Report abuse

Smart money says the Jets. Anybody want to put some dumb money on this?

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:30 AM |

Torrence won't have any choice where he lands. He'll be claimed off waivers by one or more teams. So you can read from the bottom of the league standings to the top (http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=league) and guess who wants him.

Of the teams you mentioned, Oakland is lowest, Jets are one slot below the Patriots, and Ravens are pretty high. I'm doubting that Oakland wants him -- they'd probably prefer to develop someone on their roster, their version of Tryon.

Torrence will be claimed by a contender who thinks he's an 8-game upgrade on their #4 or #5 corner.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 9, 2008 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Sundays without the Redskins SUCK!! :(

Posted by: rachel216 | November 9, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Also in the predictions category, I say that NEXT season, Torrence has a Walt Clark year after everyone figures out that Torrence was in the "wrong system" for his skill set.

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 7:11 AM

Sween, I think you mean Walt HARRIS. Although, I think a Walt Harris/Ryan Clark cyborg would be a pretty good DB!

Posted by: brownwood26 | November 9, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Well, it's apparent to me that, once again, it's time we killed the beat writer - let's see, what method of execution is best - yes, let's draw and quarter him...at midfield, at half time of the Dallas game.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 9, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

yes, let's draw and quarter him...at midfield, at half time of the Dallas game.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 9, 2008 10:15 AM

John, this is Washington DC, not Houston. We don't do that up here anymore. We'll just leave him stuck in traffic, or make him read his own writing over and over, or force him to transcribe the proceedings of the House of Representatives. After a few hours of this, he'll draw and quarter himself.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 9, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse

I think Torrence was junk. Every time I see him on the field I cring. He got beat to set up the field goal for the Rams and I found myself asking (again), "What is this guy doing on the field?" Not sad he was cut, coulda been Tryon and I would have felt the same way.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | November 9, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

*cringe*

Posted by: scampbell1975 | November 9, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

JohnD, I prefer stoning, and not bigmurf's type.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | November 9, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse

:) - either way!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 9, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse

te, yes I forgot - we definetly do capital punishment down here better than any one else... it affects your perception

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | November 9, 2008 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Baltimore trying to sign Hall was an elaborate smokescreen orchestrated by that genius GM Ozzie Newsome. I worked! Newsome secretly wanted the Redskins to sign Hall and then release the top-flight corner that he REALLY wanted: one Leigh Torrance. Newsome totally pwned Vinnie on this one.

Posted by: guymandude | November 9, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Oh no, we lost Lehigh, we are only doomed to have 4 starter quality CB's, what if two go down, we will be forced into staying in a standard 4 man umbrella style package for most of a game.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 9, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"OK then, now for the predictions game ... where does Torrence land?"

I'll take some of that and bet that nobody picks him up. I mean seriously, we're talking about Leigh Torrence here NOT Darrel Green.

For that matter, Darrel Green could suit up today and still be better then Leigh Torrence.

Jason, move on to something else. In a month nobody is going to say "Man, I can't believe the Skin's let Torrence go! That guy held up the entire secondary!"

See how dumb that sounds?

He will be long forgotten. This is by far one of the worst debates I've ever seen on this blog. Ever.

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | November 9, 2008 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I've got a well documented hatred for Vinny and all his decisions pretty much, but this one actually makes total sense and is a no brainer. Rookie you took in the 4th round and is locked up for a long contract that would hurt you if you cut, mediocre veteran that can't cover, tackle, or down a punt that is in the last year of his deal and costs you nothing to cut. And for all of you saying Hall won't be a good signing, he is absolutely worth the zero risk it took to sign him. No draft picks, 7 games for $500k, and if it doesn't work who cares he's gone. At worst he's better than both Tryon and Torrence and can return punts so ARE doesn't have to, at best he's a 24 year old pro bowl corner and the replacement for Springs. Its a great move that should be made 10 times out of 10.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 9, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Alex, Ray,

You guys are missing the bigger picture. Not only was Leigh getting better every day, but this man was the glue that held our locker room together, not to mention his big contributions on special teams. His release spells disaster for the Redskins on so many levels.

At least, that's the impression I get from Jasno and his two "scouts."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 9, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

"At least, that's the impression I get from Jasno and his two "scouts.""

You forgot about the "crying" player to be named later. ;)

It was probably Durant Brooks, lol!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

- Ray

Posted by: rmcazz | November 9, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

"OK then, now for the predictions game ... where does Torrence land?"
---------------------

Ultimately? The Arena Football League.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 9, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

if a fringe DB who's big contributions on teams has been no tackles and standing on the 4 watching balls bounce into the end zone or getting beat for a game ending bomb is the "glue that holds your locker room together" you have seriously big problems...
the glue of this locker room is Fletcher, and Griffin, and Samuels, and Santanna, and JC, and Blache, and Zorn, and if the vet captains on the defense signed off on the move then obviously they know what everyone else should know, Torence may be a heck of a nice guy but he is easily replaceable.

Posted by: zjfr2 | November 9, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse

"the 52nd or 53rd guy on the roster". That may be the scout's impression of where Torrence belonged.

But the reality is that Torrence was probably somewhere between 35th and 40th on THIS roster, measured by number of plays on the field.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | November 9, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

my guess is that they either A. Flipped a coin to pick between Torence and Tryon, or B. Took them both out to dinner and decided based off what they ordered. It was a roster upgrade, you probably don't want to do that and make another spot on the field weaker.

Posted by: alex35332 | November 9, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Ultimately? The Arena Football League.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 9, 2008 11:26 AM

No way! You're not paying attention. Don't forget what Leigh's agent said just yesterday: "I don't think it will be long before we hear from some teams. I know there will be interest in Leigh." Probably 10 teams have already filed papers to claim him off waivers. Dude's hotter than a meteorite right now.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 9, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

OK then, now for the predictions game ... where does Torrence land?"
---------------------

Ultimately? The Arena Football League.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | November 9, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Obama's staff, or some other agency in town that is getting ready to be out with the old in in with the new.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 9, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Well, although I'm disappointed that we released a solid, contributing veteran that was trusted game in and game out by Blache, I do take consolation in the fact that we have the next Darrell Green brewing on our bench. Despite the fact that he can't get on the field ever, is the last DB on the depth chart in every game, rarely sees the field on special teams, and literally provides zero contribution to the team, Justin Tryon is a "no brainer" in terms of a guy that you want to keep on your roster.

Posted by: spizzle | November 9, 2008 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Does ANYONE remember who LOST and I mean LOST the St. Louis Rams game TORRENCE!!!!!!!! Get rid of him he can't cover and I'll take Hall anyday. If Jason wasn't trying to sell papers....he would too.

Posted by: randyhaze | November 9, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Tryon a "no brainer"? That WOULD make him one of those Walt Harris/Ryan Clark/Max Headroom cyborgs! [Personally, I prefer beast over machine, but whoever gets the job done is AOK with me.]

Redskin Ray, get your popcorn ready. The league is running low on corners and running backs this season (at this time of the year). I say Torrence gets on the field somewhere next week (and by "field," I mean NFL gridiron, not mowing lawns) ... even if it means he has to be a running back in Denver (which is not outside the range of possibilities ... Denver is going through RBs faster than Bleeding Gums Murphy went through Faberge Eggs.]

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Did Greg Blache personally tell you he trusted Torrence? There is no chance he was playing because we had no better option I guess. If Blache liked him so much he would still be on the roster. I can not wait till the bye is over or something else happens so we can talk about something with more meaning.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 9, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"There is no chance he was playing because we had no better option I guess."

Even IF I believed your argument (which I don't, due to the fact that Torrence was on the field in 5 DB sets the past couple games, and not the "cobra" package with 3 safeties), you're assertion that there was "no better option" shows that you also believe that Tryon is worse than Torrence. I mean if Torrence is THAT awful, then what the hell is Tryon?

Posted by: spizzle | November 9, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Spizzle, I would love to play poker with you. Or any other game that requires an ability to analyze, project, synthesize and strategize.

With Hall's addition, Torrence was DONE seeing the field... including special teams. Given those facts, why would you keep a guy with ZERO upside(he is what he is) over a guy with POSSIBLE upside and is better athletically who is already locked up for several years to come? Seriously, why would you do that? Because that is what you are advocating.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 9, 2008 12:13 PM | Report abuse

At this stage of his career Tryon was obviously a worse option to play than Torrence. I agree with you there. Now that Hall was signed and Torrence was going to be riding the pine, don't you think the coaches evaluated who might be a better option a year or 2 down the road. They may see things in practice and potential that we don't get to see everyday.

Are you Leigh Torrence or the guy who was about to cry when told about his release? Your defense of him is better than anything I saw him do on the field.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | November 9, 2008 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Torrence looked like a strong tackler, especially on special teams. I might prefer Sellers or even Rock to wack a guy but Torrence could bring down even the more elusive guys. Reed Doughty gets blown over by a strong wind. But Carlos Rogers has come on strong.

Hall may be what Rogers isn't. But Rogers may still be better. Look at this years stats: thrown tward and completion%. I'm hoping some of it is the Raiders. The #2 corner could pick up a lot of interceptions. Springs' demise seems to be a long time coming. One year the papers are talking up Springs as the best corner in football. The next (I think when Gibbs came in) their talking moving him to safety or cutting him for cap reasons. But I have to admit the injury time has gotten a bit rediculus. But he did shut down the Crying Cowboy. So...

Rogers and Hall, with Smoot a strong #3. If Springs can find contentment at Safety, I'd think he'd make a great one. But, I'll still miss Torrence. If Hall and Springs move on the Redskins may also.

Posted by: chavez66 | November 9, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse

SkinsfaninKaneohe -

(1) Why does Torrence have zero upside? A 26 year old with 2 years of playing experience has peaked? Really? I hope you're not expecting anything more out of Jason Campbell...

(2)You're omitting the most important aspect. Torrence is BETTER than Tryon. Considerably. I'm advocating keeping the BETTER player who you know can be your nickel back if needed. He's young, he's cheap, and he can play. Is that really so hard to understand? Meanwhile, Tryon is young, cheap, and can't play right now, but you want to keep him with the hopes that one day he can? Really? Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Posted by: spizzle | November 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Sports Illustrated really missed the boat on projecting where our champion would be picked:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/47984.html

Youtube has some film on Tryon. Last year, he had a pick on a pass intended for DeSean Jackson. The previous season, Jackson caught one burning Tyron deep for a TD.

Some guys named Cecil and Sigmund have a little more insight, plus film, on how to think about Tryon:

http://pitchforknation.blogspot.com/2008/03/justin-tryon-draft-preview-from-draft.html

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

JLC we want to know your source who said he would cry over the loss of Torrence. Seems like good fun... I'm sure Cooley or Thomas was yanking your chain ;-> One of them probably won the bet that the quote would make it into the Post!

Another point to consider is one of the five CBs would likely be inactive on game days. So once Springs is healthy -- would you rather inactivate Torrence or Tryon?

So how about an article on how good the secondary will be with Hall? Better coverage by CBs should result in more time for the front seven to reach and pressure the opposing QB...

Posted by: siris | November 9, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

By which I mean that Torrence is yesterday's news. Tryon is the FUTURE ... and the future is ... eventually ...

Posted by: dcsween | November 9, 2008 12:31 PM | Report abuse

beep beep. see you there.

Posted by: CindyBoren | November 9, 2008 12:32 PM | Report abuse

If Hall shows that he can avoid being a "trouble maker" than I think Springs is gone. I don't see him coming back for little $

Posted by: alex35332 | November 9, 2008 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Shall we start the countdown to the next 'this draft is a bust' string? Or JlaC is a hater? Or 'xxxx your (sic) a moron'? I think I'm coming down with a cold. Anyone see Super Joe go 46-0?

Posted by: mikeysuperdons | November 9, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse

My wife is mad at me because i didn't go to church with her somehow she found out the Skins weren't playing today(she hates sports of any kind except track&field,go figure) i think my daughter ratted me out,anyway i cleaned up the house(washed clothes,vacummed,did the breakfast dishes,walked the dog(Rufus Thomas style)Question should i take her out for dinner or just enjoy my nfl sunday ticket and order in.

Posted by: dargregmag | November 9, 2008 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Torrence may have been a character guy, but whenever he was on the field he got torched. I always got nervous when I saw him in coverage. Dude is just not very good. I think this is an upgrade.

Posted by: HighPlainsDrifter | November 9, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Leigh "toast" Torrence was no big loss! Hall it certainly overhyped but he is better than just about anyone we have playing the position. As far as the rookie wide receivers two points. Royal, Jackson, and Avery, they all play on teams with pretty good QB's while our rookies have.........nuff said. Also Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson were hurt early so those rookies were thrust into the starting lineup, it was ink or swim with those guys. Traditionally it takes a receiver 3 years to hit his stride, Roddy White and Steve Smith are perfect examples of this, don't start giving up on theses guys so early, give them time and a NFL QB and they will be fine.

Posted by: crazyhorse19682003 | November 9, 2008 1:00 PM | Report abuse

That is the second time you have tried to play the LAME ASS Apples to Oranges upside comparison of Jason Campbell with 2 years v a CB with 2 years starting experience.
For the record, my answer is yeah, JC should continue to improve with experience under ZOrn's tutelage. And yeah, I think we have clearly seen what Torrence is....and its not gonna get any better.

Are you seriously saying that is a valid comparison? Or is that just the strongest of your anemic arguments (in my view non-existent) you can come up with to some how validate your contention that cutting Torrence was not the obvious solution given ALL of the facts??

Obviously, niether of us is going to change the others mind here. Fair enough.

Just heard Joe Buck say "Frost to punt...and its a line drive...gonna get a return here...Vikings set up in great field position after the 15 yard return". Thats why we kept Brooksie in the first place, and why the Packers would love to get a real punter on their roster.

Posted by: SkinsfaninKaneohe | November 9, 2008 1:17 PM | Report abuse

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