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Vote now on the kicker (updated)

Tony Dungy's answer was emphatic when he was asked on NBC's Sunday night telecast what he'd do if his kicker had missed an important 23-yard field goal Sunday: "I'd have to cut him before he cost me my job."


That may be a moot point for Jim Zorn, but the Redskins reportedly will look at a couple of kickers today, with Nick Novak and Graham Gano the names mentioned. Novak you'll remember from a certain victory over the Cowboys a few years back. (Marcus Washington was yelling in the locker room afterward: "Nick Novak is a Cowboy killer.") Gano, who played in the UFL and was released by the Baltimore Ravens in preseason, worked out with the New York Giants last week.

According to Adam Schefter's tweet, Mike Nugent and Shane Andrus also are kicking at Redskins Park today.

Kicking: the topic of the day

Weigh in on the kicking situation In the Redskins Tailgate Zone,

By Cindy Boren  |  December 8, 2009; 9:00 AM ET
 
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Next: Redskins dump Suisham, sign Gano

Comments

Replacing the kicker now solves nothing. Plus, we still have to pay the guy for the games he doesn't play because he was on the opening-day roster.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

If you want to see a real Nick Novak highlight - type in "Nick Novak Cowboys" in youtube and watch me scream my bloody fool head off.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Replacing the kicker now solves nothing. Plus, we still have to pay the guy for the games he doesn't play because he was on the opening-day roster.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse


What do you care about whether we have to pay the guy anyway? Its not coming out of your pocket. Fire Suisham to prove a point that there is some accountability still left on this team.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 8, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

It would be absolutely idiotic to cut the kicker. He has missed only 3 field goals all season - although they all came at inopportune times.

Our season is over - only 4 games to go - Zorn is out the door in a month - and any kicker who is any good would not be available with 4 weeks left to the season. Absolutely ridiculous - but that is how this organization rolls.

If the kicker gets cut, so should Laron Landry. And why in the world has Carlos Rogers been benched but not Laron?

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

Red, did you see Barnes take down Bush in the open field?? Once again it appears to be a situation where I have to ask WHY this kid wasn't playing since week 1??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 8:19 AM |

Did you see him make any other play? I mean, aside from the punt bouncing off his back.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

What do you care about whether we have to pay the guy anyway? Its not coming out of your pocket. Fire Suisham to prove a point that there is some accountability still left on this team.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 8, 2009 9:07 AM

Rich--If I wanted "accountability" I would bench Landry for a game or two. As far as the money, it counts against the salary cap and there's better ways to spend the cap than on a kicker who's not even as good as Suisham.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone else think the Sellers play was INCOMPLETE?

I have seen guys hold on to the ball for longer after the catch and still get ruled incomplete since they re-did the rules. He barely had his second foot down and hadn't made a football move yet, and didn't maintain possession through the catch.

By definition, if they ruled the ground did NOT cause the fumble, I think it should have been incomplete.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

I guess it doesn't really matter if we do it now or in the offseason, as long as Suisham doesn't come back in 2010...

Novak? Really? Guy did all right, but we've already been there, done that. We need to do what we did with Hunter Smith --
get someone reliable, even if we have to spend a little more to get them. Oh, and hope they don't end up injured half the season like Hunter the Punter. Hell, maybe whoever we bring in can throw a few touchdown passes as well...

Posted by: mattylight | December 8, 2009 9:12 AM | Report abuse

redDmv

"But calling Laron Landry the best free safety in the game is just wrong. He isn't even the best SS in his own family."

True and on point.

(and funny!)

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

"As far as the money, it counts against the salary cap..."

I'm pretty sure only the balance of the signing bonus woould count against the cap once the player is non-roster, since player salaries are not guaranteed. I could be wrong.

In any event, the guy is a waste of a uniform at this point.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 8, 2009 9:17 AM | Report abuse

This may have been mentioned repeatedly on here but did anyone notice the Saints WR (Meachem, I believe) actually did not make one of his catches that was ruled complete? The Skins did not seem to notice and the game went on - can't remember if it made a difference at the time. I'm sure the game will be replayed on the NFL Network this week.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure only the balance of the signing bonus woould count against the cap once the player is non-roster, since player salaries are not guaranteed. I could be wrong.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 8, 2009 9:17 AM |

I think you're wrong. I think if you're on the opening day roster, your salary IS guaranteed for the year. Not for the full contract, but for the year.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

It would be absolutely idiotic to cut the kicker. He has missed only 3 field goals all season - although they all came at inopportune times.

Our season is over - only 4 games to go - Zorn is out the door in a month - and any kicker who is any good would not be available with 4 weeks left to the season. Absolutely ridiculous - but that is how this organization rolls.

If the kicker gets cut, so should Laron Landry. And why in the world has Carlos Rogers been benched but not Laron?

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:09 AM
------------------------------------------
There are some guys who can just raise their game when the chips are down. That quality is hard to identify unless the player has been put into that position a few times. Suisham has shown a tendency to choke when it really matters. His kickoffs are nothing to write home about. I say try to find someone better while we still have some season to work with, but where it doesn't matter if we pick a lemon.


As for Landry, the coaches continue to defend him. In my opinion the guy should ride the pine for awhile until he gets the fundamentals down, but I think the coaches see something different. They see a player that has the speed to roam sideline to sideline. This allows them to bunch more guys up near the line of scrimmage. They see a guy who doesn't always make the tackle but makes physically intimidating hits that make receivers develop "alligator arms" later in the game. I guess it comes down to philosophy, but I would prefer a more disciplined approach with the safety going for the safe leg tackles and perhaps giving him a little help back there so he doesn't think he needs to be Superman. I'd still benching him for awhile - just until he learns that when he makes a tackle he should act like he's done it before.

As far as Carlos Rogers, he played on Sunday and did a good job. I think people had so many other things to complain about that it was missed that Rogers played pretty well. Arguably, the benching seemed to work for attitude adjustment. I cannot see the team hanging on to Rogers next year, and it is good to see the team assessing what they have in the young guys. I believe Rogers got the start more because of the injury to Tryon than because the team had renewed faith in him.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

"It would be absolutely idiotic to cut the kicker. He has missed only 3 field goals all season - although they all came at inopportune times.

Our season is over - only 4 games to go - Zorn is out the door in a month - and any kicker who is any good would not be available with 4 weeks left to the season. Absolutely ridiculous - but that is how this organization rolls.

If the kicker gets cut, so should Laron Landry. And why in the world has Carlos Rogers been benched but not Laron?"

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

I think Laron Landry SHOULD get cut (or traded, but he probably wouldn't fetch much in return). He's a joke. He gives up way too many big plays, and that's the worst quality a safety could possibly have. Either move him back to strong safety and get him to stop playing like a knucklehead, or trade him to someone who can.

My attitude towards Suisham is that if you can cut him now, why wait? You can pay another guy for a few weeks. Maybe that temporary replacement will even be able to make a field goal over 47 yards and get kickoffs to the endzone on occasion. Maybe the guy might be able to make a couple of clutch kicks and win a couple more games. If not, then sign a reliable veteran after the season is over. If I'm on that coaching staff, I at least seriously consider it.

Posted by: jcabana | December 8, 2009 9:24 AM | Report abuse

As far as Carlos Rogers, he played on Sunday and did a good job. I think people had so many other things to complain about that it was missed that Rogers played pretty well. Arguably, the benching seemed to work for attitude adjustment. I cannot see the team hanging on to Rogers next year, and it is good to see the team assessing what they have in the young guys. I believe Rogers got the start more because of the injury to Tryon than because the team had renewed faith in him.


Posted by: RedSkinHead |

I did not notice Carlos on Sunday but heard one of the 980 guys said he barely played. Westbrook got a lot of playing time.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

"As far as Carlos Rogers, he played on Sunday and did a good job"

He played?? Sunday?? What evidence do you have of this?? The other team threw for over 400 yards, I'm not sure you could say that anyone on the defensive side of the ball played well...

The defense played well against the run, but apart from that...pretty poor across the board...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

As for Rogers, the secret is that he's at least the second-best corner on the team. I'm not saying that's very impressive in and of itself, but he's had some stretches (especially last year) where he shut down the #1 WR on each team the Redskins faced. Above-average corners don't grow on trees, so if he can be had for a relatively cheap sum, the team should probably try to hang onto him and coach him up.

Unlike Landry, Rogers has had stretches of seasons where he's played fundamentally-sound football for entire games at a time. So Lisa, I also don't get why they treat Rogers different from Landry. If they don't keep Rogers, and they don't feel Barnes and/or Tryon can be top-flight corners, then they probably need to draft one high next year. Hopefully a new coaching staff will move Landry back to strong safety.

Posted by: jcabana | December 8, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

If landry was cut, he'd be on another team tomorrow. Suisham? Doubt it.

It's not about making an example of suisham, it's just he's not very good at all and now we have a chance to try a new guy for four weeks at low risk. Please spare me suishams accuracy stats too. They're inflated because with his weak leg we rarely attempt outside 45.

Unless novak is greatly improved, I can do without him though.

Posted by: AdamCr | December 8, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

The Final Four


12/13 @ Raiders

12/21 VS Giants

12/27 VS Cowboys

1/3 @ Chargers


It would be nice to finish strong, 3-1.

But long term, 1-3 would be more rewarding and satisfying.

Why?

The ways things are trending for Jerrah Jones' Merry Band of December Choke Artists give me the sense that a redskin home victory might knock themout of the playoff hunt.

And that by itself would be more than satisfying.

It would be the reward for this season.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Even though Camp has shown +/- of improve in last few games he still wobbles. Skinz mebbe should cornsider this QB dude Sean Canfield from OSU in upcome draft:

"In a losing effort versus Oregon, he completed 24 of 36 passes for 306 yards with two touchdowns and zero interceptions. The first thing that gets your attention with the 6-foot-4, 217-pound lefty is his accuracy (has completed 70.0 percent of his passes this season). He has a very lively arm and a quick release, does a nice job of going through his progressions and manages the game well."

Being a lefty is kind of problem though.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Painting the house when the foundation is cracked...that's what this is.

Posted by: rickmort | December 8, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

The ways things are trending for Jerrah Jones' Merry Band of December Choke Artists give me the sense that a redskin home victory might knock themout of the playoff hunt.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 9:35 AM |

It would be nice to beat Dallas, but not at the expense of improve draft rank given many personnel needs.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

BeantownGreg1,
I didn't hear Rogers called for getting burned one time. He ended up with two tackles. I think he did okay - especially compared to the torching Landry saw. I am not suddenly a Rogers fan, but I call them as I see them.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

It would be nice to beat Dallas, but not at the expense of improve draft rank given many personnel needs.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:41 AM

Go blog with your fellow Dallas pukes, you sorry-azz quitter.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

it counts against the salary cap and there's better ways to spend the cap than on a kicker who's not even as good as Suisham.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:11 AM


First of all, the dude is a kicker. It's not like he's got a $41 million bonus or something. Taking a $300k loss on a guy who shanks the equivolent of an XP at this point is a drop in the bucket.

Secondly, who says those guys aren't better kickers? If it weren't for the Redskins disregard for the kicker spot, Suisham would be on the street just like those guys are.

There's no Husteds on the list of kickers there, for the most part those are at least competent guys. I promise you Novak makes that kick on Sunday and the Skins at least owe it to themselves to try and find out.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

The best part of Sunday was after the game knotting throw seeing Landry and Rogers on the sidelines using hand gestures with each other trying to decode the mystery of the double move, it was priceless.

signed the resident idiot

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

We need to sign a vet kicker, not one thats too old though. We can't have another John Hall over here. Seems like kickers move around the league a lot and we haven't had a decent one since Lohmiller. Hall was good when healthy, but to be able to kick 47-50 yarders with confidence would help out an S load.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

And 4th, count me as one of the "wr-te-wr people" you're referring to...just because those guys are starting to show they've got some game doesn't mean those picks were right. This team would be no worse off with Yoder playing TE in Cooley's absence, and would probably be better off if the Davis pick is used on some line help. As long as the O-line suffers, those picks were wasted. Period.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 6:49 AM |

The problem with 'wr-te-wr' last year and the 1st half of this year were simple....

They were playing behind high profile/high money players. Santana/Coooooley/ARE. Everyone can't be on the field at the same time. And those dudes are real vets/pros they were playing behind.

And all of the Saints Oline who played yesterday were picked in rounds such as the 4th, 5th, 7yh, and undrafted. Meaning you can get players any where.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Go blog with your fellow Dallas pukes, you sorry-azz quitter.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:47 AM |

Hey, win a battle, lose a war. It happens all the time because peeps can't see past their noses. Just glad you ain't got four stars on your dick.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Taking a $300k loss on a guy who shanks the equivolent of an XP at this point is a drop in the bucket.

Secondly, who says those guys aren't better kickers? If it weren't for the Redskins disregard for the kicker spot, Suisham would be on the street just like those guys are.

There's no Husteds on the list of kickers there, for the most part those are at least competent guys. I promise you Novak makes that kick on Sunday and the Skins at least owe it to themselves to try and find out.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 9:48 AM

Really? How much do the 'Skins have left in available cap space? Personally, I'd rather spend the money raiding some other team's practice squad for O-Linemen, but if you think our big need now is a PK rather than an O-Lineman, go for it.

Novak makes the kick? Didn't Suisham replace Novak?

Look, Suisham has never done enough for the team to keep him. His kickoffs suck. He seems to lose leg strength every week. But what difference does it make if we cut him now for the "talent" that floats from team to team every time a kicker goes down? These guys aren't anyone's long-term solution.

But, yeah, it's not a great sum of cap money and a borderline call either way. NO has two kickers on their roster right now and maybe we should wait and pick up the one they drop.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

"And all of the Saints Oline who played yesterday were picked in rounds such as the 4th, 5th, 7yh, and undrafted. Meaning you can get players any where....."


Point-taken, but the thing is, they're taking guys regularly enough to find talented players in those rounds.

The skins don't do that.

The skins must give up the old school philosophy that any guy can be trained up to be a starting NFL offensive linemen.

Sure, you can find linemen in undrafted and low round guys.

But you must also burn a 1st and 2nd round pick on linemen to make that plan work well.

Remember: the saints also took Jammal Brown with a high pick.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

And all of the Saints Oline who played yesterday were picked in rounds such as the 4th, 5th, 7yh, and undrafted. Meaning you can get players any where.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 9:55 AM
-----------------------------------------
I kind of agree with this statement except for left tackle. I think you probably stand a 10% chance of getting a decent left tackle outside of the 1st round of the draft. You can draft some guys who played left tackle in college, but they are probably going to be playing right tackle or guard in the NFL. BTW, it seems like the general consensus out there is that you can always move a tackle to guard if he doesn't work out, but if you draft a guard and he doesn't work out, then he's probably off of the team. Given that philosophy, why would a team draft anything other than tackles?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

would be absolutely idiotic to cut the kicker. He has missed only 3 field goals all season - although they all came at inopportune times.

Our season is over - only 4 games to go - Zorn is out the door in a month - and any kicker who is any good would not be available with 4 weeks left to the season. Absolutely ridiculous - but that is how this organization rolls.

If the kicker gets cut, so should Laron Landry. And why in the world has Carlos Rogers been benched but not Laron?

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 9:09 AM


The Kicker has LOST us 2 games against 'elite' teams, that's why. His salary cap implications are unlike LL30 and CR22, and any others.

We are already short on safties, no way we can just sit Landry like we did Carlos, where we are abundant at CB.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

They were playing behind high profile/high money players. Santana/Coooooley/ARE. Everyone can't be on the field at the same time. And those dudes are real vets/pros they were playing behind.

And all of the Saints Oline who played yesterday were picked in rounds such as the 4th, 5th, 7yh, and undrafted. Meaning you can get players any where.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 9:55 AM


I get that, 4th...we know as well as anyone since the Skins got a starting safety in the 7th round and right now Rock Cartwright has long outlived/outperformed his draft status. My point is that it's foolish to load up at WR and backup TE when you're as weak at the point of attack as the Skins have been. The only way that makes sense is if Moss/Cooley/ARE are either at the end of their careers or the end of their contracts and we all know those guys aren't going anywhere in the next couple of years at least.

Glad the young guys are playing well right now, but unless/until those guys are Pro-Bowlers or key components on a Super Bowl team those picks were awful.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

And all of the Saints Oline who played yesterday were picked in rounds such as the 4th, 5th, 7yh, and undrafted. Meaning you can get players any where.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 9:55 AM |

Good pint. It also help to have crackerjack QB who doesn't need a OL to fend off the charging herd for a lifetime whilst he scouts out open WRs.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

zj, that was a literal riot seeing those 2 guys sitting there...I mean, every skins fan watching the game had probably the EXACT same thoughts in their mind when they saw that...."double moves, nothing you can do about em".......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Glad the young guys are playing well right now, but unless/until those guys are Pro-Bowlers or key components on a Super Bowl team those picks were awful.

I somewhat agree, if they can get a good to very good offensive line here, with this current make-up of offensive players, I think they could be very good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

"It would be absolutely idiotic to cut the kicker. He has missed only 3 field goals all season - although they all came at inopportune times."

Somewhat disagree with this.

Mike Vanderjagt, the most accurate FG kicker in history with more of a body of work was shown the door once they figured he only isn't clutch anymore, but couldn't even make ho-hum FGs.

FG kickers are judged on their game winners, accuracy, and leg strength. For most of his career Suisham has shown he has none of these.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

ThAnimalfarm

Your battle with League-source notwithstanding, I get your point about finishing 3-13.

But I really wonder if the draft needs we cite are as drastic as we all think they are.

We are bad, but not lions, rams, browns bad.

Injury has forced more guys to play, and they've played well.

So maybe we don't need drastic additions.

I'd trade the '11 number one pick, get another 2nd or 3rd and lower round pick.

That's three picks in rounds 1 and 2.

Or 7 picks, not 5.

But three new quality guys ain't bad, you know.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

From '08 to '10 will always be known as the 'transition years' for the Skins. We have to ride out these Gibbs 2.0 contracts and continue to let the younger players develop.

ARE will soon be gone, and I'd prefer Davis over Cooooooley. Davis seems o have a tremendous upside, but you'd have to make him the #1 TE to see it happen. DT11 has proved his worth. And MK12 just shows he needs a more accurate passer than what he has now to fully develop.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Remember: the saints also took Jammal Brown with a high pick.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:01 AM |

Who ain't playing while the Saints have been winning all them games, dummy dog.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

But, yeah, it's not a great sum of cap money and a borderline call either way. NO has two kickers on their roster right now and maybe we should wait and pick up the one they drop.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:59 AM


I'd actually like that option better than any of the 4 they're looking at now.

What you have to take into account is that Suisham tends to play better when you threaten his job. He did it at the beginning of the year, the did it last year, that's his thing. Make it look like he's done and he'll perform better. I want him gone, but if none of these guys distinguish themselves and this bumps up his performance going forward, I'm for it.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I'd prefer Davis over Cooooooley. Davis seems o have a tremendous upside,

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 10:15 AM

Coooooooley should have been cut when he showed up with that hideous hair for his last game. Worse than a bite on a double move.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Glad the young guys are playing well right now, but unless/until those guys are Pro-Bowlers or key components on a Super Bowl team those picks were awful.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:09 AM |

If that true then we living in a world with an awful lot of awful. And that just awful, aint it?

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

It just makes my head hurt to think that the Skins brain trust is just now getting around to working on not dropping your jock on a double move with LL and Los.

What's the big hurry?

Posted by: edvar | December 8, 2009 10:22 AM | Report abuse

4th, I think you have to keep both CC/FD, and you make both of them a vital part of this offense. Just like I'd like to see them IR portis, and give Ganther some starts.. RB is no longer a position that you need to have the best in the league at. NO is a perfect example. Thomas/Bell, good players who complement each other very well. No need at having the highest paid RB in the league...get 2-3 lesser guys, and pass the crap outta the ball...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Just glad you ain't got four stars on your dick.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:57 AM

Agree to agree. That's gotta hurt. And where's the upside? Probably can get female sergeants to salute, but is it really worth it?

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

I somewhat agree, if they can get a good to very good offensive line here, with this current make-up of offensive players, I think they could be very good...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:09 AM


Agreed. Building up a quality line between this offseason and 2011 will make those picks seem good. I still think they're bad picks when you take into account where they were when the picks were made. But I do agree that if they develop well, they are salvageable.

With the exception of Fred Davis...regardless of how good he looks now, he's not on the field when Cooley comes back.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Coooooooley should have been cut when he showed up with that hideous hair for his last game. Worse than a bite on a double move.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 10:20 AM |

You right. That hair just awful awful.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Emotions aside, there is more to gain, and less to lose, by keeping SS rather than cutting him. No current FA kicker is going to be signed to a multi-season deal by any other squad at this point, so they will all still be available in the off-season. And they might stink anyway. And SS might go 12 for 12 the rest of the season. There is nothing else to play for. And as others have mentioned, by the standard that says "cut him", there a few dozen other riders on the f*ckup carousel who should be cut first. Look at LL (who should not be cut wither IMO) - at least Suisham didn't miss *two* chipshots in the same game!

Posted by: Godfather_of_Goals | December 8, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Kicking is a cutthroat business that requires cutthroat players. Suisham proved that he couldn't kick when it counted, whereas Novak has established himself as a big game kicking cowboy killer. I don't have any time for a guy like Suisham missing those baby kicks which my 3 year old daughter could have put through the uprights - I say bring back Novak who is already a true Redskins hero! BRING BACK NOVAK!

Posted by: karlos_85 | December 8, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Just glad you ain't got four stars on your dick.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 9:57 AM

Agree to agree. That's gotta hurt. And where's the upside? Probably can get female sergeants to salute, but is it really worth it?

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 10:23 AM |

Hey, not to be taken literal. It a DMV thought that demanded to be posted. In real the Gens stars are embossed on their condos so them Sargs get an extra jolt of pleasure.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

theanimalfarm

"Who ain't playing while the Saints have been winning all them games, dummy dog."

"Dummy dog"?

That's the best you got?

Obviously, your insult capacity is as limited as your mother's oral skills.

See how I did that?

But you're a farm animal.

And I guess like most sheep, you're nervous.

I guess that comes from living like a pig, barking like a dog, and getting milked like a cow.

And f!cked in the azz like the farmer's daughter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

"With the exception of Fred Davis...regardless of how good he looks now, he's not on the field when Cooley comes back"

brown, this is EXACTLY how Jim Zorn treated this situation as well...think about that.....

When you have 2 guys who can make plays, you USE them....you don't just wear one guy out...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Didn't novak miss a kick at the end before hitting the game winner vs Dallas? I want suisham out yesterday, but not for novak.

Posted by: AdamCr | December 8, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree these coaches seem to want there way to work no matter what. A good coach would change things up and admit a mistake was made.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 8, 2009 7:36 AM


THis seems to be Zorn's biggest problem IMO...back on the Cooley/ Davis discussion, nice.

My biggest concern is getting Cooley back and watching the regression of Davis, especially after he has done pretty damn well in CC absence.

Who knows if we get a coach that will use them both.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 8, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

When you have 2 guys who can make plays, you USE them....you don't just wear one guy out...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:36 AM


Cooley's a TE...I don't think they're "wearing him out" at all. I agree with that sentiment regarding RBs, it's not so simple when dealing with TEs.

Chris Cooley has shown that he's an elite NFL player. He needs to be on the field at all times. And if you roll with a bunch of two TE sets, then one of your 2nd round WRs are on the bench. It's about playing your best guys and getting your money's worth and they don't do that with any regularity.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

riddle me this, assuming we are the #5 pick which it looks like that is the case give or take a pick and Okung is gone (supposedly the only top flight OT in the draft) and we can't get a trade down partner what's the pick?

For me, I say CJ Spiller, in the second round look at OT and trade one of or a combination of Cooley, Portis (unlikely cause of his contract but ya never know in an uncapped year), Moss, Landry, and/or Rogers to somebody to get a 2 this year for a young QB, in the 4th a guard. Keep JC for another year and develop the young QB (hopefully Pike or Keenum or Snead or even Tebow if he falls to the 2nd).

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

As of right now the Skins will pick 5th in the draft. If this holds up, who do you take, Okung? Another DLinemen? At 5 we should have a good shot at an impact starter.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 8, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

In real the Gens stars are embossed on their condos so them Sargs get an extra jolt of pleasure.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:34 AM |

A couple of Tigers girfies said he had custom condos with the "TW" icon embossed on the condo. Heh, heh.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

QB (hopefully Pike or Keenum or Snead or even Tebow if he falls to the 2nd).

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:45 AM

I go for Spiller or top flight DB, after you double move the hell out of him and see if he can take it...

I dont want Snead, he looks like he crumbled this year under the pressure, Tebow I think will drop to the 4th and I LOVE PIKE.

Posted by: mhartz1 | December 8, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

The Saints just benched John Carney for that young guy, are they gonna carry two kickers or cut him? Carney would be an upgrade.

And wasn't Steven Hauschka cut from the Ravens cut not too long ago. He is probalby still in Baltimore watching games!!

I'd trust either over Novak & Suisham.

Posted by: mrlowery1 | December 8, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Really, who cares anymore?

Lets move on to a team that WINS GAMES!

ROCK THE RED! GO CAPS!

Posted by: Gambrills4 | December 8, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

An alliterative name must be Redskins' management #1 factor when looking for kickers.

Posted by: seriesoftubescleaner | December 8, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Cut LL30? You gota be out of your frickin mind. Yes, hes not playing well right now. But if you recall, ST21 had some growing pains. When this guy learns to take the big hit when its there and be less aggressive in deep coverage (double moves) you will be glad he's on this team again. He has all the physical tools, coaching, maturity will bring help the mental part of his game catch up. I would like to see him back at SS and Kareem Moore as FS. Moore can hit too, Ive seen it.

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | December 8, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

brown, I just think that you use the players you have, you dance with who you've brung....isn't a fresh cooley, better than a worn down cooley??

I mean, not using Davis, thats exactly what JZ did, and we ripped him up for doing so, and now you're advocating that move...I don't get it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I'd bin Suisham, but it makes little sense to do it now. As unreliable as he is in clutch situations, I don't see anyone out there just who is better so what's the point in bringing them in? We've had Novak before and he was worse than Suisham. Gano was cut by Baltimore who must have thought Haushcka was a better bet and yet they've now cut Hauschka AND not bothered to bring Gano back in so that gives you some clue as how good he would likely be.

Only reason for cutting Suisham now is if you just want to punish him for missing that fieldgoal. In the cold light of day though, I say you just let him play out the season and see what the offseason brings.

Posted by: tartanskin | December 8, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Obviously, your insult capacity is as limited as your mother's oral skills.

See how I did that?

But you're a farm animal.

And I guess like most sheep, you're nervous.

I guess that comes from living like a pig, barking like a dog, and getting milked like a cow.

And f!cked in the azz like the farmer's daughter.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:36 AM |

Nice. DMV would be proud.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

No way Spiller lasts to the second round.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Pike is my first choice of all the QBs in the draft and I think we could get him in the top of the 2nd. If we could solidify the line in FA then I'd be incredibly happy with a CJ Spiller, Tony Pike, Tackle, Tackle, Guard draft.

If we re-sign Levi, we still have Heyer a signing of a starting caliber tackle in FA and draft of two young guys along with a guard to backup BMW, Rhino, E. Williams, that's more depth than we've had in years.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"...and I LOVE PIKE."

So where does Colt fit into all of this?

You remember Colt Brennan, don't you?

Where does he fit into a world where Campbell gets resigned?

Back up?

Then why draft a guy with a top pick when you can snag a d-back or lineman?

Again: Campbell's status with the team effects a whole lot of other issues.

I'd try to sign him ASAP.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

An alliterative name must be Redskins' management #1 factor when looking for kickers.

Posted by: seriesoftubescleaner | December 8, 2009 10:50 AM |

How about Shane Shankopotamus?

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

No way Spiller lasts to the second round.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

That's why I said pick him at #5 overall, follow along Red.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:54 AM | Report abuse

Collins is gone and the rook and colt fight to backup JC in year one.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

riddle me this, assuming we are the #5 pick which it looks like that is the case give or take a pick and Okung is gone (supposedly the only top flight OT in the draft) and we can't get a trade down partner what's the pick?

For me, I say CJ Spiller, in the second round look at OT and trade one of or a combination of Cooley, Portis (unlikely cause of his contract but ya never know in an uncapped year), Moss, Landry, and/or Rogers to somebody to get a 2 this year for a young QB, in the 4th a guard. Keep JC for another year and develop the young QB (hopefully Pike or Keenum or Snead or even Tebow if he falls to the 2nd).

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:45 AM

It doesn't really matter what WE (the fans) want. You know our idiotic Front Office is going to draft Notre Dame QB Jimmy Claussen with our first round pick. Vinny will say "he was the best player on the board regardless of need."

When that happens, I'm done with my beloved Skins.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

According to Adam Schefter, Mike Nugent and Shane Andrus also are working out today.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 8, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Hey rocket surgeons....

Okay, the Board hates the idea of Landry at FS. Wants him moved to SS. Okay, who replaces him?

One poster suggested Kareem Moore, the guy who made one mistake that cost the Redskins a TD, and another that could have. (Shoving an opponent into Randle El as ARE was making a punt catch.)

The PROBLEM is the Redskins have about a half dozen strong safeties, and only one guy who can also play free safety.

The idea of drafting another safety with the #1 pick is ridiculous for a team that has bigger needs at OT, CB and RB.

Free agent? Go for it. Trade? Bring it on. I think Landry would be a horse at strong safety, but for now the team is stuck with him, because they have NO replacement at FS.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Here is my problem with the mike sellers fumble. I get it that he fumbled but what I dont think is fair is that if you go back and watch the tape mike attempted to go back and get the ball but the ref came in blew the play dead and said he was down by contact in which mike stopped reaching for the ball and the saints picked the ball up. My complaint is that if the ref did not blow the wistle that mike would have fought for the ball and most likely won because he had the best position to get the ball. I think it is unfair to blow the play dead and the other team pick the ball up just becasuse and then you go to replay and give the ball to the other team when the offense could have pick the ball up but stopped because the ref blew the whistle

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 8, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Thanks Cindy, Mike Nugent is actually a legit kicker,,,,,

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Suisham should be released ... for a little while anyway. Mabye bring him back over the summer.

Florio says Jasno says that the Skins are bringing in Shane Andrus, Novak, and Mike Nugent. To the last one, I say NO NO NO.

Novak was OK. Eh. Andrus I know nothing about ... so Novak ... for a little while anyway.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

According to Adam Schefter, Mike Nugent and Shane Andrus also are working out today.

Posted by: CindyBoren | December 8, 2009 10:57 AM |

Shane Andrus = Shane Shankopotamus

We have found our kicker!

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

ZJFR2- Welcome back! Aren't we forgetting something?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"Nice. DMV would be proud."


You got thangs twisted, bro'

I'm proud of redDmv.

I got swag on this blog by attacking folks, then representing with my own product.

And I'll always keep my corners!

I'm Avon Barksdale, red's Marlo Stansfield.

If you're gonna come after people, gitcha game right, 'cuz right now, you slippin', bro'.

You slippin'!

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Hey rocket surgeons....

Okay, the Board hates the idea of Landry at FS. Wants him moved to SS. Okay, who replaces him?

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2009 10:58 AM

Spend the cost of the franchise tag the Rams put on Atogwe ... but I agree that the draft needs should be OT, RB, and then FS ... or maybe a center.

Assuming no cap for an exclusive one year engagement (aka, the blood-letting and "right-sizing" of total roster costs), then my next assumption is the departure of Samuels, R. Thomas, Portis, and Moss. What else is in the top 10 of the salary hits? [I would take a mulligan on D. Hall ... Albert is the only overpaid starter on the roster worth his overpayment.]

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

"In a losing effort versus Oregon, he completed 24 of 36 passes for 306 yards with two touchdowns and zero interceptions. The first thing that gets your attention with the 6-foot-4, 217-pound lefty is his accuracy (has completed 70.0 percent of his passes this season). He has a very lively arm and a quick release, does a nice job of going through his progressions and manages the game well."

Being a lefty is kind of problem though.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm


I was impressed by this kid too in the Oregon game. Why is being a lefty a problem? Worked out okay for Snake Stabler, Young and (in his prime) Brunell.

He throws a real nice ball. Somehow I think receivers can learn how to catch a ball spinning in the opposite direction.

If he's there in the second round and campbell is leaving, I might very well go for him.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Aren't we forgetting something?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 11:02 AM

Yes ... F Dallas.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

too true cork, yet another indictment of Vinny, the only games LL should have played FS were the final games of the ST21 season. That offseason priority one should have been getting a FS, but like the leaving of Dock and pluggin in Todd Wade or the drafting of Orakpo to replace Marcus Washington, the utilization of Jason Taylor, Archuletta and so on and so on the Skins solution is to take talented people and force them to play out of position instead of just letting them do what they do well.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Kicking is a cutthroat business that requires cutthroat players. Suisham proved that he couldn't kick when it counted, whereas Novak has established himself as a big game kicking cowboy killer. I don't have any time for a guy like Suisham missing those baby kicks which my 3 year old daughter could have put through the uprights - I say bring back Novak who is already a true Redskins hero! BRING BACK NOVAK!

Posted by: karlos_85 | December 8, 2009 10:33 AM |

What HE said. 100% all the way. Why argue with such great logic?

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

I would not cut LL, but I sure would bench his @ss and see if that gets through to him. What? You afraid the back up will make a mistake and get scored on?

And if I were Jerry Grey, I'd be investing some SERIOUS time and effort into getting this double move BS fixed. As in NOW!

Posted by: edvar | December 8, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

ZJFR2- Welcome back! Aren't we forgetting something?

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

look at the top of the thread already did it, and I did yesterday too, I will do it first post of everyday, not every single post....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

I mean, not using Davis, thats exactly what JZ did, and we ripped him up for doing so, and now you're advocating that move...I don't get it...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 10:51 AM


Where did I advocate that? I just said that in light of the fact that the team isn't going to use a backup TE and doesn't run an offense that allows for that two TE setup, there's no sense in drafting a backup TE in the 2nd round--especially one with the exact same skill set as your Pro-Bowl starter.

It's neither here nor there at this point, fire Vinny, fire Zorn, fire the kicker. Carry on.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

If he's there in the second round and campbell is leaving, I might very well go for him.

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2009 11:05 AM

Campbell + D. Thomas + Kelly + Davis = rhythm (finally!)

Campbell + Moss = dropped pass

Campbell + ARE = check down safety valve over the middle, sometimes first down, sometimes not

Cooley + Davis + Yoder = the future

Those three plus the tall 2nd rounders are enough. No more receivers. Let blood in roster purge on Moss/ARE ... assuming the wipe out of the dead cap.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

look at the top of the thread already did it, and I did yesterday too, I will do it first post of everyday, not every single post....

Posted by: zjfr2

Ha, didn't see the first one. Well done, well done.

Posted by: Rypien11 | December 8, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

If we got the 5th pick and Okung is gone, then I'd hope we didnt reach and pick the next OT on the list. I'd take Spiller at 5. Why not? Then take an OT in the second. Then more linemen in 5 6 and 7. I'd love to trade some of our dead weight but nobody in the league wants Redskin rejects. Portis, Cooley, Landry, ARE will not be traded. Lets hope the FO and new coach replenish our O line. Thats what we really need.

Posted by: FedorEm | December 8, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Hey rocket surgeons....

Okay, the Board hates the idea of Landry at FS. Wants him moved to SS. Okay, who replaces him?

Posted by: TheCork | December 8, 2009 10:58 AM
------------------------------------------
I'll probably set off a flurry of rotten tomatoes here, but why not try Carlos Rogers at free safety? The team probably wants to keep him around but they want to get a good look at the young guys as the season winds down. They might be sitting on the fence as to what to do with Carlos at the end of the season. Rogers is the biggest cornerback they have and a fair tackler. Why not try him out back there? They were trying to extend Smoot's career by having him back there, but Smoot has lost a step and is not as physical as Rogers. I say, try Rogers at free safety and get a good look at how well Landry can play strong safety. Who knows? Maybe Rogers will give them a reason to keep him around.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Again: Campbell's status with the team effects a whole lot of other issues.

I'd try to sign him ASAP.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 10:54 AM |

Camp is too much a wobblepotamus for Skinz to be making any moves to sign at this point.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I love Spiller but @ #5 seems little high. He's had a great senior year but does his body of work suggest he's a top 5 player? Include the fact that he's going to share the backfield is he worth the investment @ #5? I'd go with the best defensive player on the board @ #5, and most likely that's Gerald McCoy. Also, I wouldn't draft a QB until 3-5. There's not much separation in talent level in this year's QB class to warrant a high pick.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

one really big problem, FS is supposed to be a ballhawk and Rogers can't catch

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

And if I were Jerry Grey, I'd be investing some SERIOUS time and effort into getting this double move BS fixed. As in NOW!

Posted by: edvar | December 8, 2009 11:07 AM

edvar,

My own bet is Jerry Gray has already invested more time and effort into LL (and CR) than the guy is worth. Some players are not coachable, and LL shows every sign of being one of them. He is a project for a different coach than Jerry Gray.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

how big is spiller?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2,
So? Only Hall is making an impact as far as interceptions go, so would they be worse off? Rogers can't catch him, but he can bat them down.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

That's why I said pick him at #5 overall, follow along Red.

Posted by: zjfr2


I don't follow whack ass bamas such as yourself... You were talking a little to reckless for no reason a few days back, for what I have no f-ing idea, but if you gotta an issue with me, I suggest you come out and say it. Like I say, I never insult ANYONE unless they have the s*** coming. Except that perennial bama of the month, 4th Floor or BamatownGreg1.

So you're against with drafting a natural FS, but on board with drafting a small back with C.J. Spiller. The CJ Spiller types (small, fast, can return kicks) can be had all throughout the draft and free agency... Game changing FS like Berry, they come around every three or four years. Besides, it'll let Laron move back to his "natural" SS spot.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I'll probably set off a flurry of rotten tomatoes here, but why not try Carlos Rogers at free safety?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 8, 2009 11:14 AM

Antrel Rolle went to the Cards just before Rogers. He sucked eggs as a corner, but has gotten good reviews since they shifted him to safety.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

It doesn't really matter what WE (the fans) want. You know our idiotic Front Office is going to draft Notre Dame QB Jimmy Claussen with our first round pick. Vinny will say "he was the best player on the board regardless of need."

When that happens, I'm done with my beloved Skins.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 8, 2009 10:57 AM


No way we get Clausen. He sucked. I don't know what you guys have been watching. He had 2 below average years and one average year.

Look for Mallet as the dark horse. If Houston Nutt goes to another team to coach, Mallet will leave.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Those three plus the tall 2nd rounders are enough. No more receivers. Let blood in roster purge on Moss/ARE ... assuming the wipe out of the dead cap.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:10 AM |

Why be sat to be within a win in 4th and then losing which is what you get with Camp?

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

BamatownGreg1

Listen red, when my boy 4th JACKS you up Dockett style, you'll be carrying your teeth home in your pocket....

4th, while we're on the subject, regale us again with that story.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse


What do you care about whether we have to pay the guy anyway? Its not coming out of your pocket. Fire Suisham to prove a point that there is some accountability still left on this team.

Posted by: rich20ssu | December 8, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

You want to send a message? Release LL.

Posted by: Pepper5 | December 8, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Antrel Rolle went to the Cards just before Rogers. He sucked eggs as a corner, but has gotten good reviews since they shifted him to safety.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 11:20 AM

Antrel Rolle just got inserted into the Cards' wildcat offense as well ... but, the thought of Rogers batting down a direct snap makes me shudder.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Hey JReid..
WHy not write about the oddity that here the Skins are, one game away from mathematically being out of the playoffs, talking about cutting a kicker who has choked and cost the Skins only 2 games..

Yet, the QB has choked in the last minute of far more close games (INTs), when the Skins had a chance of making the playoffs earlier this season, and there is never any discussion of cutting him or demoting him.
Why??
Any other NFL team and JC would of been on the bench after the 3rd game of this season.

Posted by: cliftonbiz | December 8, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Look for Mallet as the dark horse. If Houston Nutt goes to another team to coach, Mallet will leave.

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:22 AM |

Arf by a coach doofus. Mallett a Arkie, Nuttsack a Reb.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I love Spiller but @ #5 seems little high. He's had a great senior year but does his body of work suggest he's a top 5 player? Include the fact that he's going to share the backfield is he worth the investment @ #5? I'd go with the best defensive player on the board @ #5, and most likely that's Gerald McCoy. Also, I wouldn't draft a QB until 3-5. There's not much separation in talent level in this year's QB class to warrant a high pick.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

defense? Unless its Eric Berry to play FS then that's the last thing we need. If we can't get Okung we need an explosive RB, and yes Spillers "body of work" is phenomenal, look at his stats he's been dominant his entire career. He's had at least 1000 yards from scrimmage every year despite splitting time with James Davis until this season, this season he's had 1600 yards and 15 TDs as the feature guy and 42 career TDs. He's a stud.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

the exception of Fred Davis...regardless of how good he looks now, he's not on the field when Cooley comes back.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 8, 2009 10:24 AM

Cooley is an athelete who happens to play TE, and use to play H-BAck.

I say make Davis your #1 TE and make Coooley your #1 utility guy. 3rd WR/2nd TE/H-Back/Motion Guy/Such as.
Davis has more upside in blocking than Cooooley, which will help improve QB protection.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Hahaha @ Moe's 11:04

Oh, and:

"MY NAME IS MY NAME!!"

And, zjfr2, that may have seemed like I was going on you a bit but please know that:

"I'm being a gentleman about it for the moment."

Seriously.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

You want to send a message? Release LL.

Posted by: Pepper5 | December 8, 2009 11:24 AM

And the message? "This front office is dumber than even Brownwood claimed they were."

If you want to send a message with LL you bench him, not cut him. Cutting LL would be like cutting off your head to spite your face.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Want to send a message with LL??

Personal Punt Protector.....NUF SAID!!!

Message Sent

Message Received

LOUD and CLEAR...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Red I wasn't insulting you, just telling you to read, if that is insulting then I apologize, perhaps you should dial it back a bit? Too much coffee not enough love from Mrs. Red today?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Yeah right, Beans.

4th's arms are too short to box with the God.

Still waiting on the video of him supposedly "mauling" Dockett.

Where it at, 4th?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

4th, while we're on the subject, regale us again with that story.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:23 AM

I would, but I thinks I am bout to leave.....

.....My wife's water may have just burst...just waiting for confirmation...

(The pics of me blocking him I have will have up soon on my facebook page. There is one pic of this block I have on him and a view of this big 'ole alley way for the RB behind him. I am Al Bundy)

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

defense? Unless its Eric Berry to play FS then that's the last thing we need. If we can't get Okung we need an explosive RB, and yes Spillers "body of work" is phenomenal, look at his stats he's been dominant his entire career. He's had at least 1000 yards from scrimmage every year despite splitting time with James Davis until this season, this season he's had 1600 yards and 15 TDs as the feature guy and 42 career TDs. He's a stud.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:26 AM

Next year our DT tackles are AH and Goltson. Griff has a chronic knee and we'd be lucky to get much production from him. Monty is a bust. Alexander is nice role player, but we've seen how teams run the ball on this defense when AH is out. You'd have to address DT at some point in the draft, and if it comes down to stud DT to speed back, I'd go DT any day. In a passing league you have to be able to effect the QB position.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

4th, go take care of your business, good luck, prayers for everyone to be healthy....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Twis, in the pantheon of Redskin's needs, DT is way way way way way way way down the list.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Still waiting on the video of him supposedly "mauling" Dockett.

Where it at, 4th?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:32 AM

Dude...I am lazy....It took me an hour to work the scanner...it took me another hour to scan the pics I needed....It took me another hour to realize I didn't save them as 'jpegs'.....very computer illiterate.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

4th, while we're on the subject, regale us again with that story ...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:23 AM

Not till technology is invented to download and re-broadcast (time- and glory-enhanced) memories. The Betamax version of this one is way better than the actual events.

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I don't drink coffee.

I'm single most weekday nights so rarely do I do the roll over quickie thing in the morning, like you serious and married folk do.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

There's not much I can do until the doc says it's time....I already took yesterday and a couple of days off last week because of false alarms....we need to make sure this time......

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Ayo, "Al Bundy"...

Hope everything works out in favor for you and yours!

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Can you say "battered wife syndrome" that's what you SS supporters sound like with all these lame excuses. When do you say enough?
I said it after the seahawk playoff game.
Get him outta here NOW, preseason starts now for the Skins.

Posted by: bhoang888 | December 8, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

instead of replacing the kicker, they should completely remove Zorn from making game decisions. Zorn said that he didn't want to risk going for a TD near the saints 10 yard line on 1st and goal. He constantly settles for field goals instead of going for the kill to put oppenents away and the team has lost everytime. He'll make the same wimp a$$ call week after week because he has no balls.

Posted by: kingpenn1 | December 8, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

zjfr2 again I see only two viable options @ DT currently on this team. We'll see, but my bet is DT is third on the list of needs.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Hahaha @ Moe's 11:04

Oh, and:

"MY NAME IS MY NAME!!"

And, zjfr2, that may have seemed like I was going on you a bit but please know that:

"I'm being a gentleman about it for the moment."

Seriously.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:27 AM |

Moe & DMV = ankle biting special ed grads

Heh, heh.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Of the names I've seen as the Heisman candidates, my response is still "eh" (except for Bradford, but injuries mean an "eh" year). I see this DT Suh up there, but never seen him play. I don't think there has been a defensive player picked for the Heisman (at least in my life time). Is THAT guy a non-eh guy? [And if so, how do you pronounce his last name ... I'm never even going to try to pretend to be able to pronounce his first, but if he goes high enough in the first round, maybe had can afford to buy a vowel).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Where are the polls for the following people:
Moore
Landry
Campbell
Sellers

If you're going to fire people to send a message why stop with the kicker? You're accusing Suisham of choking, but in the waning moments of the Cowboys game and the Saints game Jason Campbell threw interceptions and the defense couldn't stop the other team. Why not get rid of them too? Seems to me like they're choking. Double standard?

Posted by: BetterOffWithFedorov | December 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Good luck 4th. I pray that you have a healthy child.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

instead of replacing the kicker, they should completely remove Zorn from making game decisions. Zorn said that he didn't want to risk going for a TD near the saints 10 yard line on 1st and goal. He constantly settles for field goals instead of going for the kill to put opponents away and the team has lost everytime. He'll make the same wimp a$$ call week after week because he has no balls.

Posted by: kingpenn1 | December 8, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

dc, that cat Suh, is a MONSTER...if he's there at #5, which I doubt, then I hope this team picks him....he and al would be monsters...my old, skinny white backside could get 10-15 sacks with those two playing dt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Next year our DT tackles are AH and Goltson. Griff has a chronic knee and we'd be lucky to get much production from him. Monty is a bust. Alexander is nice role player, but we've seen how teams run the ball on this defense when AH is out. You'd have to address DT at some point in the draft, and if it comes down to stud DT to speed back, I'd go DT any day. In a passing league you have to be able to effect the QB position.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 11:36 AM

Completly agree. Or maybe if there's a SLB deserving of top 10 pick. Spiller's listed at 195 lbs - Reggie Bush anyone?

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

dc, that cat Suh, is a MONSTER...if he's there at #5, which I doubt, then I hope this team picks him....he and al would be monsters...my old, skinny white backside could get 10-15 sacks with those two playing dt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Bean are sure you are not Vinny and Dan? No this team need to fix the O line way more that the D line.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Zorn should be out of the playcalling period like they said he was. Since the switch our offense has almost doubled its third down efficiency and scored the most points of his coaching career. The only thing he's retained, the 2 minute drill, has been awful plagued by turnovers and lack of production, Zorn sucks, the good news is, he and his Norvspeak are gone in 4 weeks.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Bean are sure you are not Vinny and Dan? No this team need to fix the O line way more that the D line.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Thank you, for once can we draft for needs?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Of the names I've seen as the Heisman candidates, my response is still "eh" (except for Bradford, but injuries mean an "eh" year). I see this DT Suh up there, but never seen him play. I don't think there has been a defensive player picked for the Heisman (at least in my life time). Is THAT guy a non-eh guy? [And if so, how do you pronounce his last name ... I'm never even going to try to pretend to be able to pronounce his first, but if he goes high enough in the first round, maybe had can afford to buy a vowel).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 11:44 AM

Suh is awesome. He got something like 4 sacks against Texas Saturday from the DT position. I don't see him slipping past the Lions or Bucs though.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Nothing is really going to change until the next 4 - 12 season.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | December 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Moe & DMV = ankle biting special ed grads

Heh, heh.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm


Your moms said the same thing after the bukkake session she got courtesy of me and the homie, Moe.

I don't know, I guess your Moms is into "ankle biting special ed grads".

Which explains why she may get sexually satisfied more by your 8 year old brother than your father.

Dick.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

4th, congrats on the pending arrival..

I would stay at work until you have confirmation, from the hospital, that the baby's head is crowning.
Its a good sign that its not false contractions.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 8, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

jm, passing up suh=passing up peterson...

this cat is the real deal...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Suh is awesome. He got something like 4 sacks against Texas Saturday from the DT position. I don't see him slipping past the Lions or Bucs though.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:53 AM |

Plus how good would the dude be against adult compete in NFL?

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Bean are sure you are not Vinny and Dan? No this team need to fix the O line way more that the D line.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Thank you, for once can we draft for needs?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 11:53 AM

Agree about the need on o-line but Suh may be special enough that you don't want to pass on him. And as mentioned, Griffin is getting old.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

skinswest/Bean and when the QB get killed again next year and the O doesn't produce very few points. You will be the same two up here blasting the team for not getting O line help.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Your moms said the same thing after the bukkake session she got courtesy of me and the homie, Moe.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 8, 2009 11:54 AM |

Using the old "Moms" insult gambit favored by 7 yr olds are we?

Jackass juvie.

Posted by: TheAnimalFarm | December 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Agree about the need on o-line but Suh may be special enough that you don't want to pass on him. And as mentioned, Griffin is getting old.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

We already have a 40 million dollar DT, Gholston has looked great this year, AM and LA are solid, we don't need that, if they draft a FS ok, I don't like, our offense has been our problem for a decade but I understand the need for a true FS, but can we finally just make some picks to I don't know have a complete team as opposed to a collection of stars that are unable to overcome the roster holes that are left every year?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Keep him. We don't need game winning field goals at this time because it would mess up our early draft pick. As long as we beat Dallass.

Does any else think we should keep the combo of Zorn and Sherm Lewis? Obviously get a GM. Get rid of Portis and beef up the O line???

Posted by: DCSPORTSFANATIC | December 8, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

A D-line of Carter, Suh, AH, and Orakpo would be incredible. I'd be surprised if Suh made it passed the top 2-3 picks though.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying ignore the ol, all I'm saying is that we picked LL, instead of Peterson=Fail. We picked Rogers instead of Ware=Fail

Again, not saying ignore the OL, but this cat has 'special' written all over him....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Completly agree. Or maybe if there's a SLB deserving of top 10 pick. Spiller's listed at 195 lbs - Reggie Bush anyone?

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

He's got 10 pounds on Darren Sproles. He's a big mac meal shy of Ahmad Bradshaw. It's more about his running style than his size. I haven't watched him play much but if he makes 1 cut and then hauls a55 then he'll be fine. Reggie would simply try to dance around you and break your ankles. Reggie wanted to freeze you in your tracks then go around. These other guys make one move then turn on the jets. I'd watch a lot of film before I drafted him but if he has a great burst and only makes 1-2 moves then I'd strongly consider it.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | December 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Does any else think we should keep the combo of Zorn and Sherm Lewis? Obviously get a GM. Get rid of Portis and beef up the O line???

Posted by: DCSPORTSFANATIC | December 8, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Sherm Lewis maybe, Jim Zorn hell no, the guy has screwed up every decision and job he has been given since getting here, just because his "system" may be clicking a little right now means nothing, it took the bingo caller for that to happen and Zorn isn't the only WCO person in the world, if you wanna keep the system fine, but we need a real NFL head coach.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

skinswest/Bean and when the QB get killed again next year and the O doesn't produce very few points. You will be the same two up here blasting the team for not getting O line help.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 12:01 PM

This depends jm220 on who is available when the Skins pick. If Okung is gone and Suh and Spiller are available, who do you pick? Neither addresses the OL. Do you reach for the next best OL if you can't trade back.

It would be a tough choice if both Okung and Suh are there when the Skins pick, but you cannot pass on Suh if he falls to you. Same as happened with Orakpo.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Whoever said that replacing Suisham now makes no sense is an idiot. The guy has been a bum since the minute he put on a Skins uniform. We have needed to cut him since Week 1. Yours truly should run the skins. I would go O-line with the first pick. Then trade up to get Bradford or Tebow (just watch he's gonna be good in the NFL). Then stay with o-line and secondary in the next rounds. WE HAVE TO DESTROY AND RE-BUILD. Model franchise to follow: Miami Dolphins

Posted by: Regulator8902 | December 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

Just looked at 3 of the 2010 mock drafts. 2 have us taking Bradford, the other 1 has us taking Earl Thomas a free safety. Jesus will it be this bad come April?

Posted by: FedorEm | December 8, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I think Suh is gonna be a beast in the NFL, but I just can't see a way to justify us taking him. When Albert's been healthy, our defensive line has been sick. Plus, unless he pulls an Andre Smith at the combine, he's gonna go in the top 3 I'd say...better to go with an elite tackle if one is on the board or trade back and get more picks...

Posted by: mattylight | December 8, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

skinswest/Bean and when the QB get killed again next year and the O doesn't produce very few points. You will be the same two up here blasting the team for not getting O line help.

Posted by: jm220 | December 8, 2009 12:01 PM

Hell the group playing now has protected JC better in recent weeks. Is that on the coaching, play calling? They're not ideal granted but effective. I would not ignore the oline. Go oline in the 2nd and 4th rounds, sign some FA's. I just don't want them to pass up the best looking DT to come out in years for a respectively lesser player at OT. The points probably moot because I don't see Suh making it to their pick as it now stands anyway.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

AM and LA are solid

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 12:02 PM

They tried to trade AM for a reason. He's 325 lbs and can be easily blocked man. Alexander is a 275lb DT and is easlily blocked by one man. This year when AH has been out, teams have gashed the skins on the ground. What will change next year?

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

sorry can't agree with trading up to get Tebow, he may end up being good, but nobody really knows and that is a gigantic gamble on a long shot. If Okung is gone, I say Spiller, if Suh falls to us I say trade back, if he's there at 5 somebody is going to want him, and how much would adding a stud DT really change anything about our team at this point? We have one already locked up for a long time, you just can't pay Albert and what Suh would make as the #5 that much when they play the same freaking position. Its a luxury that a team with the holes that we have can't afford. Which no matter what Davis is doing now is the same reason the pick spent on him should have been spent on the oline, so instead of being 3 and 9 we might be fighting for the playoffs right now.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying ignore the ol, all I'm saying is that we picked LL, instead of Peterson=Fail. We picked Rogers instead of Ware=Fail

Again, not saying ignore the OL, but this cat has 'special' written all over him....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 12:05 PM

There are some draftniks who think McCoy is the better pro prospect. It'll be interesting to see who grades out better, but both these players are surefire top 5 talents.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I think Suh is gonna be a beast in the NFL, but I just can't see a way to justify us taking him. When Albert's been healthy, our defensive line has been sick. Plus, unless he pulls an Andre Smith at the combine, he's gonna go in the top 3 I'd say...better to go with an elite tackle if one is on the board or trade back and get more picks...

Posted by: mattylight | December 8, 2009 12:11 PM

Thing is AH is never healthy for a full season. Will Montgomery who showed promise bounce back? Griffin's getting old. I do like the idea of trading back if an OT isn't there.

Posted by: skinswest | December 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Please sign the young kicker, Gano. He should have a big upside. and what's the worse that could happen? Maybe shank an extra point distance field goal to win the game?

Posted by: VegasJim | December 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

if Suh falls to us I say trade back, if he's there at 5 somebody is going to want him

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 8, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

That's a really good point, IMO. If he is sitting in our lap at #5, we could get a nice package of picks to trade back...

Posted by: mattylight | December 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Golston and Alexander are who they have been since they were drafted. Griffin is on his last leg. Thinking that DT is not an area of need is what got us to this place with the Skins when Gibbs was here- that we were ok on OL.

Suh will not last past the 1 or 2nd pick, but if he falls to where the Skins pick, he has to be considered before any other pick except Okung. And then it becomes a tough choice, but you go OL at that point.

You don't pass him over a RB, FS or CB. Suh will beast in the NFL.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

1. After watching the Big 12 championship game, you draft Suh. You just do.
2. Why jockey for draft positions?
A. the same clowns will be picking that always pick
II. if our needs are not glamor players, I.E. - we need OLmen, having the 4th or the 7th pick really does not make a huge difference.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | December 8, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Jack, agree, Suh would be good trade bait to trade back and get more picks. Like that idea.

Really, it is a moot point because he will not be there at our pick.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 8, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Its a good sign that its not false contractions.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | December 8, 2009 11:56 AM


Yes indeed, but where not at that point, lol. She is checking in at the doctor' s office, not the hospital....

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

"Does any else think we should keep the combo of Zorn and Sherm Lewis?"


Another tricky decision the FO has to make.

Bingo or Zorno?

Or both?

Thing is, the redskin offense has been broken since the days of Tony Banks.

('Memba him?)

And only over the past four games has it resembled a modern NFL offense.

This is happening even as the league laughs at the idiotic play calling process the skins engage in.

So why would you want to take away from that?

The only difference between a dysfunctional relationship and a functional one is spelling.

And so far, Bingo and Zorno are starting to show signs of functioning together quite well.

Even if the relationship is dysfunctional.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

I wasn't proposing drafting Suh. I was just asking whether he should win the Heisman over two QBs and two RBs. I think it would be cool if a defensive player won the Heisman. [Of the 4 'ehs', I would put Toby Gearhart/Stanford at the top, but never really thought about apple/oranging a defensive player into that mix.]

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

jm, passing up suh=passing up peterson...

this cat is the real deal...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 11:56 AM

Which means we should have never gotten Orakpo....when we needed a OLB...and still do!

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Which means we should have never gotten Orakpo....when we needed a OLB...and still do!

which would have been solved by drafting Ware instead of Rogers...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | December 8, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

false alarm....but it's still early in the day

Posted by: 4thFloor | December 8, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

Love or hate Vinny's drafting mantra of 'best available', you can't ignore it in the 1st round.

At any given spot there may be 2 or 3 players which can be evaluated roughly the same, but beyond that, you can't simply ignore the value of your pick and draft a kicker (extreme example).

So the best guy available left over int he top 5? I'll take him. In lower rounds, the best available deal gets you 26 TE's and 13 WR's, so Vinny needs to shove that mess, but in the first round beggars can't be choosers.

Posted by: mattsoundworld | December 8, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

beeps

Shankham gone.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 8, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"I wasn't proposing drafting Suh."

How do you pronounce that cat's name?

Is it, "Suh," as in, "Sir"?

And I'm not even going to try making a phonetic connection out of the first name as it makes me think of drums, elephants, and Africa.

But if dude becomes a redskin, I'll learn how to say it.

And I'll say it right, suh.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 8, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

There are some draftniks who think McCoy is the better pro prospect. It'll be interesting to see who grades out better, but both these players are surefire top 5 talents.

Posted by: TWISI | December 8, 2009 12:18 PM

NOT that I've checked, but SOME draft mockers have Clausen, Bradford, AND McCoy going before Tebow (and one with McCoy just behind Tebow still had Mallet and Locker ahead of Tebow).

Posted by: dcsween | December 8, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Sween,
Charles Woodson, MICHIGAN, 1999.
Unless you're remarkably well-unpreserved, I think you were around for that one.
Suh is probably the most outstanding talent on either side of the ball this year.
Ingram had a huge game at the right time (right after a weak performance against Auburn).
Gerhart is my choice -- put a marginal team on his back and carried them over USC, Oregon, ND.

Posted by: daggar | December 8, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

It's an interesting debate, but here's my question: what would drafting Suh do for the Skins? I know we'd make other moves so you can't look at taking Suh as the only offseason roster move, but does it take a 3-13 or 4-12 team and make the defense so dominant that even if the offense improves only marginally we're 4-5 games better next season? I don't know one way or another.

If we took a couple offensive lineman, does it make us better? One would think so, but the o-line has been solid for a few weeks now and we're still 0-3 in our last 3 games.

That's what's frustrating about the Skins -- for 6 weeks we're screaming about the horrible offensive line, then they gel a little and play better, and now its the secondary / safety play that's been horrific. I think it goes to show that the point is moot. We have a ton of needs, that one offseason probably won't address...

Posted by: mattylight | December 8, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Heck, the main reason Suisham has a high percentage of FG its mainly because hes been kicking chip shots, since the Offense sputtered in the red zone. And now even chip shots are missed.

Posted by: arbano1 | December 8, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm pretty sure only the balance of the signing bonus woould count against the cap once the player is non-roster, since player salaries are not guaranteed. I could be wrong.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 8, 2009 9:17 AM |

I think you're wrong. I think if you're on the opening day roster, your salary IS guaranteed for the year. Not for the full contract, but for the year.

Posted by: League-Source | December 8, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

------------------------
That's right...

The point I was trying to make was that his salary would only count against the cap this year, but any signing bonus he was paid would be pro-rated for the remainder of the contract and would count against the cap next year.

Posted by: InRealAmerica | December 8, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Mattylight if we do a get a chance to draft Ndumakong Suh we should pull the trigger it wouldn't be the fan favorite move but its not like we can go from 3-13 or 4-12 to a playoff team in 1 offseason but Suh would be a move could be the type of move that could push us in the right direction. Take the Iggles they drafted D-Lineman high in 1st Rd and O-Lineman in the later Rds so taking Ndumakong Suh would give us in insurance plan for those games we big Albert will miss every season and possible an inside pass rush we dont have right now even with Albert. Don't get me wrong I would prefer Okung or Eric Berry but if Suh or even Gerald McCoy is in our lap should we pass and settle for less talent or take the highest rated player cause we're forgetting our problems cant and won't be fixed in 1 offseason!!!

Posted by: robbkels | December 8, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

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