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Week in Review: Obligatory Cutler Stuff, Free Agency, Etc.

Things have certainly slowed down, but wanted to address two of the topics that seem to be on your collective minds before the weekend. So here goes:

The Jay Cutler Speculation: We continue to hear nothing tangible about this "trade" whatsoever. Vinny Cerrato has denied it up and down, not just to the media but to football people around the league. He's also denied it to agents for some Redskins players, according to league sources, some of whom could be potentially directly affected by the alleged swap(s). It's one thing to be less that truthful with the media and fans, and quite another to do so with people you hope to maintain an ongoing business relationship with.

Make no mistake, there was some chatter going around the league earlier this week, unsubstantiated talk and not backed up by fact (the kind of gossip that is a part of any business/corporation/league), that the Skins had a thing for the Denver QB. But it's quite another to report the inner workings of alleged three-way blockbuster deals as if they are potentially imminent. And, again, fitting a guy like Cutler under the cap, and absorbing massive cap hits from dealing guys like Chris Cooley, at a time when you only have the space to offer vet minimum deals for potential starters, is still something that seems impossible and render such deals as nonstarters.

Dwindling Free Agent Options: Yes there are holes to fill, but the options are limited. OT Elton Brown, a player the Skins flirted with, re-signed in Arizona this week, and unless they wait on an injured veteran like Mark Tauscher, they may have to address this in the draft. The Skins have made no contact on former Pro Bowl OT Orlando Pace, according to league sources, and, again, have very little wiggle room with the cap.

Also, to that end, I get a ton of emails about WRs like Torry Holt and D.J. Hackett -- the Redskins have not expressed interest in any of the receivers out there, these two included, and the word inside Redskins Park is that the team's budget at that position is set (dangerous gamble there, with Devin Thomas exhibiting knucklehead tendencies as a rookie and Malcolm Kelly trying to recover from yet another knee surgery). I expect DE Phillip Daniels to re-sign at some point, and LB Khary Campbell may not have any other options, either. And in that case OT and LB would be vital spots in the draft (to say nothing of what will be an ongoing dearth of young ends with every-down potential).

Also, DTs Kedric Golston and Anthony Montgomery had not signed their offer sheets as of last night. Both have plenty of time to do so, and it makes sense to keep options open should another team fancy them. In the end, though, I figure both of them are back here one-year deals.

By Jason La Canfora  |  March 20, 2009; 10:41 AM ET
 
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Next: Is Drafting a QB at 13 the Way to Go?

Comments

Red I don't know. But taking a life can't be a easy thing to deal with. A lot of people want to act like these guys are not human simply because they make a lot of money. I just think that is wrong and not every athlete is Pac Man.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Red/ B we don't know anything about Stallworth on a personal level. He very well maybe grief stricken for a life that was lost. Not everyone put money above everything.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 10:33 AM

I was thinking the same thing.

A man was killed because of him. You would have to pretty desensitised to not be grief stricken. He took away the provider of ones family. Stallworth won't be able to provide for his own fam. Everybody loses......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Wyche's Mock Draft on NFL.com

"17. Josh Freeman - New York Jets : This is where things get very interesting. Several teams want Freeman and could have to trade ahead of this pick or with the Jets to get him. Freeman's stock is soaring. The Jets need a quarterback, but they could trade for a veteran, deal this pick and move back in the draft for additional second- and/or mid-round selections."

Has Freeman had his pro-day yet? It would be amazing if he could work his way up 4 more spots. With so few 1st round QB's, he would be the trade bait the Skins need to trade back for good value.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Indeed 4th/JM... especially about the part that everyones loses.

I just see both sides, and have 20/20 on one, and 20/50 on the other.
------------------------

On a lighter note though, what is the worst vision you can have, 20/200?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Well here’s the latest rumor on this Cutler saga so take it for what it’s worth. According to the Bleacher report, yes I know… risky, it’s a three-way trade with Cutler, Scheffler and a Browns 3rd round pick going to Washington, Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell and a Denver 5th rounder to Cleveland and Brady Quinn and Washington S LaRon Landry going to Denver.
Posted by: slimbo-Rice | March 20, 2009 10:40 AM

Same old song and dance. The bleacher report is not even entertaining to read, much less believable.

With the number 13 pick the Lions could take the best Corner back in the entire draft. I think that would be worth it for them.
Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 10:47 AM

Scary situation with the WRs. Scary situation with the DTs. Scary for the WR corps b/c they are not scary and they are not in Ashburn.

Help me out - If another team offers a contract to Monty or Golston, then we get a first round pick? Anybody?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

What knucklehead tendencies did Devin Thomas show as a rookie?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

slimbo,

I wouldn't take that to seriously, when the don't mention how Washington would be able to fit an 11mil cap hit for Cooley and a 7.5mil cap hit for Landry.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

yod, if the Jets deal for a qb, I'd suspect they'd be going after Cutler.

Not sure I've seen to many mocks that have Freeman that high....

Said this ealier, but Stafford lighting it up at his pro-day, helped the skins.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't take that Bleacher Report seriously b/c it said "Satire" at the top....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Help me out - If another team offers a contract to Monty or Golston, then we get a first round pick? Anybody?

Posted by: matthewvickers

---

We'd get a 5th for Monty, a 6th for Golston.

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

That Bleacher Report joke post was a great example of how the internet spreads false memes. If there are any grad students on here in social science, there is a paper for ya.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

red

'....Henry Ellard was Heath's go to guy when the other team wasn't open...'

I got you there, Red.

As much as we think highly of Moss, Holt is the kind of capable vet who might bring some cred to the wide out crew.

He's got a ring, played and starred in a great scheme, and can still make plays--the sorry rams just want to get young, which ain't a bad thing.

But imagine if he pushes Randle El off the field by playing second banana to Moss/Cooley, and allows for Thrash to be cut?

He won't be a primary guy, just a vet who knows how to make the catch that moves the chains.

I don't see how adding him at this point would hurt.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Henry Ellard was Heath's go to guy when the other team wasn't open...

He was part of that 3-13 squad if I recall correctly.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Henry Ellard was actually on pace to shatter the receiving yard record that year until Friez was replaced with Shuler. Then his numbers dropped, but he still ended up with almost 1400yds. I hate Shuler..

Posted by: ga8085 | March 20, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Bean, I'm just going off Wyche saying there are a lot of teams interested in Freeman. I don't see Detroit trading up, so it would be nice to have options.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

I'd love to hear what member "zcezcest1" might have to say about anything his sources indicate is going on 'behind the scenes' with a possible Cutler deal. I understand completely what JLC is saying about the difference between a media smokescreen from Cerrato (e.g., Haynesworth) and representations he makes to players/agents, but I still have something more than a nagging doubt whenever I hear The Vinny say "we're not interested."

Posted by: DahDee | March 20, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Ellard was a good redskin for 4 seasons. A great signing. He had three, count'em, three 1000+ yard seasons for the skins.

Sorry Red, your memory did not serve you correctly there....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Seemed like every time Ellard caught the ball it was for a first down. He was an awesome route runner.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Too bad Ellard popped his hammy at the end of the third season.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

The Skins made their bed at WR...gotta play that hand now, regardless of who is out there.

Right now the biggest need is at DE...you have two guys who can man RT until you get reinforcements. Playing with Wynn at starting LDE is a HORRIBLE proposition...

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Seemed like every time Ellard caught the ball it was for a first down. He was an awesome route runner.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

And the fact that he was the WR coach for the Rams and Holt has to count for something. Maybe if Holt did come to the Skins, he could teach the rest of the WR's not to run routes short of the first down.

Posted by: ga8085 | March 20, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

If the Jets decide to make a strong play for Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler, who could wind up on the trading block in the coming days, they may need help from a certain Cleveland resident whom they unceremoniously dumped - Eric Mangini. Wouldn't that be a trip? The Jets have the need, the cap room and the draft-pick ammunition to make a serious offer for Cutler, but the one thing they probably don't have is a quarterback the Broncos would take in return. That's where Mangini and the Browns would come in. The former Jets coach has two viable quarterbacks, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, neither of whom has received an endorsement from Mangini. Quinn might be appealing to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels because he played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weis, who used to work with McDaniels in New England. Quinn is well-versed in the Weis/Patriots offensive system, which McDaniels will use in Denver. That means the Browns could emerge as the third team in a potential three-way trade. The main components of a three-way deal would be the Jets getting Cutler, the Broncos getting Quinn and the Browns getting a premium draft pick (or picks) to help their rebuilding process. Without Mangini, the Jets would be hard-pressed to swing the deal.

New York Daily News

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

brown, whats the difference, other than age, between Wynn, and Evans?? Not sure I can see that much of a drop off...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Brownwood, can't agree.

Biggest need is still O-line. We had the #4 D last year and who was playing at DE? Banged up Taylor and Evans (who was good but not spectacular). O line killed us. We'll get help at DE, but we have to gain dominance on O line, not just patch up a couple of stop gaps. We've already seen those results and it wasn't pretty.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

It wasn't Ellard's fault those teams were bad.

We should have never gotten rid of Desmond Howard. You see he took the Packers to the SB and won the SB MVP......

(I know I am in the minority, but my claim is staked)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

If Dallas gets Pepperes, how are you going to feel about RT then? We needs studs.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Desmond Howard was a kick returner. As a receiver, he pretty much sucked.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

On a lighter note though, what is the worst vision you can have, 20/200?


Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 10:53 AM

What LaCanfora has= Hindsight

Posted by: GreatOne1 | March 20, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Help me out - If another team offers a contract to Monty or Golston, then we get a first round pick? Anybody?

Posted by: matthewvickers

---

We'd get a 5th for Monty, a 6th for Golston.

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 10:59 AM

WRONG. Partially.

Golston was tendered at the 2nd round level (the better of the 2).

Montgomery at the fifth (The biggest potential of the 2).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=teamreports-2009-nfl-was&prov=sportsxchange&type=team_report

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

ed, ZERO chance that Dallas gets peppers.

they don't have the draft cache, having traded their first round pick for Roy Williams.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

On a lighter note though, what is the worst vision you can have, 20/200?

I'm not a doctor, but I'm thinking blind is pretty close to the bottom of the list.


Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

If Dallas gets Pepperes, how are you going to feel about RT then? We needs studs.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:12 AM |

Dallas isn't getting Peppers they don't have a first round pick this year to give up for him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 20, 2009 11:16 AM | Report abuse

brown, whats the difference, other than age, between Wynn, and Evans?? Not sure I can see that much of a drop off...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:10 AM

I'm not looking at who's starting, I'm looking at depth. After Wynn, what is there? A 240 pounder in Wilson and Alex Buzbee. If you thought JT couldn't stop the run, wait'll you get a load of these two! Much worse than going with Jansen or Heyer for a few weeks. If they officially get Daniels back I MIGHT change my mind on that, but as of now they have nothing even serviceable at LDE.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

He actually went as far as to call aplayer a "knuckle head" ? are you kidding me...damn the guy was not that bad....

Oh crap I fell into JLC's posting trap again!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

"Cornerback Carlos Rogers is happy again. Not only did he recently become a father for the first time, he’s back in the starting lineup for the Redskins, no questions asked.


There shouldn’t have been any questions in 2008 either as Rogers, who pushed himself furiously to get back early from two torn knee ligaments suffered in October 2007, had a Pro Bowl-level first half, shutting down such receivers as Terrell Owens and Arizona Cardinals All-Pro Larry Fitzgerald.


“Every top receiver I faced, I shut down,” Rogers said. “Look at the guys in the Super Bowl. Larry Fitzgerald had 37 yards on me until we went two-deep and he caught the long ball (on safety Reed Doughty). I shut down (Pittsburgh Super Bowl MVP) Santonio Holmes until he caught that quick pass for five yards to the end zone in the fourth quarter.”

ADVERTISEMENT

But after Washington signed two-time Pro Bowl pick DeAngelo Hall in November and longtime No. 1 corner Shawn Springs returned from a calf injury, Rogers was suddenly a backup. So Rogers headed home unhappy and unsure if he wanted to remain a Redskin.


“It was never that I didn’t like playing for the Redskins, but if all of us were coming back, I didn’t want to be there because I would be a backup,” Rogers said.


A talk with Jim Zorn on his way out the door helped, especially when the coach assured Rogers that he was going to be a starter in 2009. But that wasn’t definitive until the Redskins agreed to terms with Hall minutes before the start of free agency on Feb. 27 and cut Springs later that day in order to provide the salary cap space for Hall’s deal.

"

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Henry Ellard? They don't make WR like that anymore. Closest is already with them in James Thrash. And he can't catch passes anymore.

Again, it looks more and more like Vinnie gets his way by convincing Snidely to trade down. He like having lots of choices to waste.

However, its my hope that instead they will use next year's choices to acquire more picks this year keeping a 1st rounder ... be nice to have a second one like the Eagles lower in the draft plus a second or two give their desperate need for close to or immediate starters at 5 or 6 positions.

Posted by: priestholmes | March 20, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

(continued)

"
The ninth pick in the 2005 draft, Rogers, is looking forward to being a regular tandem with Hall, the eighth choice in 2004. Both make their offseason homes in Atlanta.


“DeAngelo’s a cool guy to be around,” Rogers said. “With the two of us and (Fred) Smoot, we can be one of the best.”


If Rogers plays in 2009 the way he did for most of 2008, a major payday lies ahead since his contract is expiring.


“You want to perform either way, but the last year of my contract is motivation,” Rogers said. “It’s time for me to get some of that money that (Hall and $100 million defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth) got.”


Notes, Quotes

• On March 8 as he continued to mull a minimum salary offer to return to the Redskins for a sixth season, Phillip Daniels let the cat out of the bag. The Redskins were considering re-teaming him and Renaldo Wynn, the defensive ends during the team’s 2005 playoff season, the only one that has produced a playoff victory since 1999.


“Renaldo and I have talked about how great it would be if we get this worked out,” Daniels said. “We’re both getting older so the Redskins said they could see having both of us at left end for a year or two.”


That would be the plan. Andre Carter is set at right end, but with Jason Taylor having been cut, Daniels having had his contract voided and Demetric Evans having departed as a free agent, until Wynn agreed to terms on a 1-year deal on March 16, the left ends were Chris Wilson, Rob Jackson and Alex Buzbee, who have combined for zero starts, 35 games (32 by Wilson) and seven sacks (all by Wilson).


Wynn, who’ll be 35 in September, has started just two games since Carter’s arrival in 2006 made him a backup. Daniels, who turned 36 on March 4, is also talking to Tennessee and Denver, but he wants to be a Redskin.


“They know I don’t want to switch teams, but I will,” said Daniels, who missed all of 2008 after tearing the ACL and MCL in his left knee on the first snap of training camp. “I feel good. I’m already squatting 500 pounds. I think I could play until I’m 40. The Redskins know that I’m one tough dude and that I’ll be in shape for camp.”


Quote To Note: “It’s not just the money. It’s about how much I’ll get to play and what my role will be. I see myself here as a starter on special teams and battling with Chris (Horton) for a starting position.”—S Reed Doughty on why he signed a 1-year minimum ($535,000) contract with the Redskins after the team had declined to offer him the $1.01 million restricted free agent tender.
"

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

brown, you say you're not talking about starting, but then you say there is nothing even serviceable at LDE, you gotta pick your poison. Either talk about depth, or talk about the starter.

Wynn=Evans.

And considering that buzbee hasn't ever played in a regular season NFL game, we don't know what he have in him, wouldn't you say??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

"A talk with Jim Zorn on his way out the door helped, especially when the coach assured Rogers that he was going to be a starter in 2009. But that wasn’t definitive until the Redskins agreed to terms with Hall minutes before the start of free agency on Feb. 27 and cut Springs later that day in order to provide the salary cap space for Hall’s deal.

"
Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009"

They need a Dre Bly or Samari Rolle to come in as the 3rd corner.

Posted by: priestholmes | March 20, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

(continued)

"Strategy And Personnel

TEAM NEEDS/OFFSEASON STRATEGY


Other than agreeing to terms with veteran defensive end Renaldo Wynn on a 1-year contract March 16, it’s been a quiet 10 days for the Redskins.


The team continues to talk contract with end Phillip Daniels and linebacker Marcus Washington, but each man, let go in February, is balking at the minimum-salary type of deal that brought Renaldo Wynn back after a year in New Orleans and another with the New York Giants.


TEAM NEEDS


1. Defensive end: Bringing back Wynn helps a little, but he was a backup the past three years and will be 35 in September. The Redskins still need more help here.


2. Linebacker: Having cut Marcus Washington, the Redskins are left with 5-foot-10 H.B. Blades or career special-teamer Alfred Fincher as the strongside starter. Special teams ace Khary Campbell remains unsigned. As with left end, they need a starter-level strongside backer.


3. Tackle: Right side starter Jon Jansen wore down at the end of last season, his 10th in the league. He missed virtually all of 2004 and 2007 with injuries. But he kept second-year man Stephon Heyer on the bench for most of 2008. The Redskins want to add someone here.

"

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse


From CBS.com-- Josh Freeman 3/12 pro day:

Freeman has good arm strength, but his accuracy was inconsistent. On many of his shorter and intermediate routes, he often was a bit high or wide with his throws. All in all, it was a solid performance, but not the jaw-dropping one some had projected.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

It wasn't Ellard's fault those teams were bad.

We should have never gotten rid of Desmond Howard. You see he took the Packers to the SB and won the SB MVP......

(I know I am in the minority, but my claim is staked)

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Are you serious? Howard did nothing his whole career except return a SB kick that got him an MVP he should not have gotten...that should have gone to White or Farve or Freeman.

Howard was pretty much a bust his whole career...He was down right awful as a WR...i consider Howard one of the worst picks the skins ever had in the draft...right next to Heath.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

"However, its my hope that instead they will use next year's choices to acquire more picks this year keeping a 1st rounder..."

It has to stop somewhere. I would rather them bite the bullet this year (thanks to the Jason Taylor trade). Next year's 1st round should be stacked, and I definitely want to have a pick.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

No on Holt, we need roster space for O-line (good or bad) and DE, LB (good or bad)

whatever it takes to get ANDRE SMITH or OHER is what we need to do.

10 years ago we got Samuels and it's the only position we haven't had to address.

We need to get that position locked up for the next decade.

There are a lot of good Tackles THIS year and we have a shot at one. Smith or Oher could play RT right away and slide to the left when needed

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Red -

From a macular degeneration website:

"Legal Blindness is when a person's best-corrected vision is 20/200 or worse."

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Said this ealier, but Stafford lighting it up at his pro-day, helped the skins.
Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 10:56 AM

Definitely agree, the better he looks the more likely Detroit or one of the other first 12 will take him and leave a tackle on the board. Or someone might want to trade up if he's still there at 13.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Are you serious? Howard did nothing his whole career except return a SB kick that got him an MVP he should not have gotten...that should have gone to White or Farve or Freeman.

Howard was pretty much a bust his whole career...He was down right awful as a WR...i consider Howard one of the worst picks the skins ever had in the draft...right next to Heath.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:24 AM

You don't remember the playoffs that year, do you?

Howard was killing them on Punt returns the whole playoffs. He returned like 2 in the playoffs (not including the SB), and had a bunched returned for good field position.

Favre, nor White won a SB w/o Howard returning kicks.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Yoder-lay-hee-who - I agree with you - just take what we need the most this year with 4 picks

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Here is Howards Stats in a 10 year career playing for Washington, Green Bay, oakland and Detroit. Thats for 10 years!

REC 123
YDS 1,597
AVG 13.0
TDS 7

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

And one SB MVP.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

4th

You haven't got a prayer sticking up for Howard. He had one fortunate season as a punt returner. As a receiver, he's in the hall of fame for high first round draft pick busts (was he 2nd or 3rd over all pick?)

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I always thought Heath Shuler never really got a fair shot….I know his stats were bad and he got injured a few times, but those were some pretty horrible teams he was on. Everyone got so enamored with Frerotte, that Heath was just pretty much shown the door. Now I am not saying he was good, but I just wonder how his career would have turned out of he had been drafted onto a decent team. Of course that was before I had NFL ticket so I did not get to see very many games he played in. I think I remember him beating Dallas once in 95 when they went to the Super Bowl….I guess that’s the only thing that stuck with me. Go ahead, have at me…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

brown, you say you're not talking about starting, but then you say there is nothing even serviceable at LDE, you gotta pick your poison. Either talk about depth, or talk about the starter.

Wynn=Evans.

And considering that buzbee hasn't ever played in a regular season NFL game, we don't know what he have in him, wouldn't you say??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:22 AM

I don't know what you don't understand, Greg...behind Wynn there would be undrafted practice squad guys. At least with Jansen or Heyer you have a guy who's been a starter before. I'm not calling that spot solid, I'm just saying it's not as dire as the gaping hole you have at LDE. If/when Wynn gets hurt, YOU might have to suit up! Feel free to disagree, but I just think the team could survive another year of Jansen/Heyer vs. having everyone look like Tiki Barber in the '06 finale running off tackle for huge gains on a midget LDE.

And whoever gets drafted to play RT would have the exact amount of experience as Buzbee, so I'm not sure I get your point. The only difference is you're not asking Buzbee to come in and shore up the RT spot. What happens if/when the 1st rounder isn't starting?

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

And what is this idiocy? "Favre, nor White won a SB w/o Howard returning kicks....."

Do you think the Pack would have even sniffed the playoffs with out Favre or White, but with Howard returning punts? That argument is a joke. Look at Timmy Smith for the Skins. One big game in the SB does not validate a career. Howard was a limited role playing flash in the pan.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

ga;

Zorn said last season that the routes are supposed to be short ( i guess because the defense will patrol the first down line) and it is up to the receiver to get another yard or 3...

Not saying it is a good strategy, but not completely the WR fault...

Posted by: Zeebs | March 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

All true, 4th, but just because a guy has 3 great games returning kicks in the playoffs does not mean that the 'Skins made a mistake getting rid of him - at the end of the day, Howard never lived up to his potential as a WR. You are right, though - he changed the course of those playoffs for the Packers, and yes, he DID deserve the Super Bowl MVP - when he returned the KO for a TD, the Patriots had scored and were gaining momentum...Howard put the game away.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

brown, if they take a RT at 13, and buges/zorn don't have intentions of starting this guy, then they both need to go. I'm just not panicked about the LDE position. They were more than fine with roughly the same amount of talent at LDE last year, versus Jansen/Heyer were turnstiles, or lacking in the run game at RT.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

We should have never gotten rid of Desmond Howard. You see he took the Packers to the SB and won the SB MVP......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:11 AM

Wow...kinda like saying Archuleta was good signing because he was a nice "punt protector", no?

Nobody in their right mind would take a damn kick returner 4th overall. As great as Devin Hester has been, I doubt ANYONE takes him 4th overall in any draft.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Who was the biggest redskins drafted bust:

Andre Johnson
Taylor Jacobs
Heath Shuler
Desmond Clark
Mista Moe
Mario Mounds
Rahsuad Bauman
Cliff Russell
Beantown Greg
sports_guru
Marc Wilson
Lavar Arrington
psps23
Durant Brooks
Malcolm Kelly?
Fred Davis?
Flounder21


Have at it!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Jansen started as a rookie RT and shut down Strahan in both games. A first round draft pick should be able to do that Buzbee was a late round prospect, so expectations shouldn't be too high.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Did you know that the Superbowl retunr was the ONLY kick return for a TD in his whole career? He had 8 for punt retunrs which in a 10 year span that sucks!

Some how it just doesn't seem right that a guy gets MVP for one freakin play...MVP should have been Farve. Why no credit for the great blocking he got on that return? In fact he was not that great of a kick or punt returner either in NFL.

"Desmond Howard returned a kickoff 99 yards for a touchdown and Brett Favre passed for two touchdowns and ran for a score as the Packers won their first Super Bowl in twenty-nine years.

Howard, en route to garnering the MVP trophy, equaled a Super Bowl record with 244 total return yards.

It was Favre's arm that struck first, as he hit Andre Rison for a 54-yard touchdown pass on the Packers' second play from scrimmage to take a 7-0 lead. Two plays later Doug Evans made a diving interception of Drew Bledsoe's pass at the 28-yard line, setting up Chris Jacke's field goal and giving the Packers a 10-0 lead just 6:18 into the Super Bowl.

The Patriots answered with touchdowns on their next two possessions. Craig Newsome's pass interference penalty set up the first touchdown and a 44-yard completion from Bledsoe to Terry Glenn preceeding Ben Coates's touchdown gave New England its first and only lead. The 24 combined first quarter points were the most in Super Bowl history.

Green Bay struck again 56 seconds into the second quarter as Favre hit Antonio Freeman with a Super Bowl-record 81-yard touchdown bomb. Jacke booted his second field goal on Green Bay's next possession. After a Mike Prior interception, Favre orchestrated a 74-yard, nearly 6-minute drive that concluded with a diving Favre touching the ball against the pylon to give Green Bay a 27-14 halftime lead.

Curtis Martin brought the Patriots to within a score by running in from 18 yards out with 3:27 left in the third quarter. But Howard broke the Patriots' spirit by returning the ensuing kickoff a Super Bowl-record 99 yards. Favre found Mark Chmura for the 2-point conversion to finish the scoring.

Bledsoe was intercepted twice in the fourth quarter as the Patriots never crossed midfield in four fourth-quarter possessions.

Reggie White set a Super Bowl record with three sacks. Favre completed 14 of 27 passes for 246 yards, with no interceptions. Bledsoe completed 11 more passes than Favre, but for just seven more yards, and threw four interceptions."

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"Curtis Martin brought the Patriots to within a score by running in from 18 yards out with 3:27 left in the third quarter. But Howard broke the Patriots' spirit by returning the ensuing kickoff a Super Bowl-record 99 yards. Favre found Mark Chmura for the 2-point conversion to finish the scoring."

Fair or not, that's why Howard got the MVP

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

zeebs

'....Zorn said last season that the routes are supposed to be short it is up to the receiver to get another yard or 3...'

This is why I hate the WCO.

I liked the system Ernie Zampese installed where everything was based on the 'skinny post' and guys finding spaces underneath it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

"just take what we need the most this year with 4 picks"

They might not have a choice, but trading down would be nice. Assuming that they get 2 higher picks to work with. I hope they have a tackle slide to them at 13 and pick a OLB in the 3rd round. Marcus Freeman and Tyrone McKenzie could be options there.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Like I said. I knew I would be in the minority.

For the record, He was #4 draft pick. He was drafted by jacksonville in the expansion draft (we didn't get rid of him in the purest sense). The redskins sucked in total after his 1st and only year with Gibbs at the helm.

Just like someone said above, that Shuler didn't get his fair shake. Howard didn't get his either. His PR skills were so vicous, he wasn't able to just work on routes, and such as......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Farve defintely should have been MVP He threw record TD pass and threw 3 at that! But Howrad gets an MVP for one play? He would have never been MVP it he didn't get that TD....


Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

4th, I see your point but looking at the facts of the game...Howrad should never have been MVP plus...his career was awful except that one game....

im a bit surprised that you think Howard was a good pick...Does not sound like the 4th I know on here!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Wow, I didn't know that Ellard was here four years... was his first season that one where they played Tampa twice in the regular season?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

He had 244 all purpose yards in the SB. Take away that 99 yarder, That's still 145 yards i change of field position he added.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

brown, if they take a RT at 13, and buges/zorn don't have intentions of starting this guy, then they both need to go. I'm just not panicked about the LDE position. They were more than fine with roughly the same amount of talent at LDE last year, versus Jansen/Heyer were turnstiles, or lacking in the run game at RT.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:39 AM

I see your point Greg...I just think the ENTIRE line was bad last year, not just the RT spot. I'd like to think you could mask it a bit if you've got a deficiency at one position, but it was almost all of those guys that failed the team last year. This coaching staff (namely Buges) has had trouble trusting younger, inexperienced players. And I could see a repeat performance of that if they go RT in the 1st round.

Think about it: these guys went into the SF game last year with NOTHING to play for but pride, and opted to stay with the same tired, old legs that got them out of the playoffs to begin with. What makes you think they'll trust the young blood when the games count again?

And I'm aware that the DE they take (if they go that way) probably won't start. But I'm thinking worst case scenario here: at least you have a quality (hopefully) pass rusher to put in there on 3rd downs vs. a RT that the coaching staff thinks "needs to learn the ropes" or doesn't have the knowledge of a Jansen. In a perfect world, they plug in a RT from that 1st rounder and never look back. It's just been a loooong time since the Skins have lived in that perfect world (going on 18 years to be exact).

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree with JLC - Thomas was a knucklehead last year. Why? Well, he showed up out of shape and he didn't learn the playbook. He barely got on the field and when he did, he made mistakes. Knucklehead, no doubt. And I would say that Davis was even more of a knucklehead. Anyone know whether those guys are working out with the team now? Regarding Howard, definitely one of the worst draft busts in 'Skins history.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Who was the Skins BEST Draft pick in recent years?

Samuels
Arrington
Jansen
Campbell
C Rogers
S Taylor
C Baily

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Does not sound like the 4th I know on here!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:48 AM |

FULL DISCLOSURE

I am in the tank when it comes to UMich......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

b, I really hope that after the 2-6 end to the year, it opened some eye's, as to what need to be done. Young guys need to play, not sit on the bench because Buges likes vets, Betts needs to play, they need to open the offense up.

I really hope that zorn has learned from that.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

S Taylor

Simply on talent alone. That guy was a freak and will always be my favorite player.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I'd say Samuels. The guy has done his job well year in and year out. And he never gets in trouble. Second would be Baily. He was great too. I'd love to put Taylor in there, and he might have risen to the top of the list, but his dangerous lifestyle sadly got him killed.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

who picked up marvin harrison?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 20, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Farve defintely should have been MVP He threw record TD pass and threw 3 at that! But Howrad gets an MVP for one play? He would have never been MVP it he didn't get that TD....


Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 11:45 AM


I think Favre was re-building his image at that point in time... he had an addiction, right?

thxs, ed

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Best draft pick:

Chris Samuels

Question: if he is somehow able to maintain 3-4 more years of "Pro Bowl" level play, does he creep into HOF conversation?

Maybe...maybe not

How does a linemen get such a designation anyways?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

I am in the tank when it comes to UMich......

If you run into anyone from Clemson in the same tank, kick 'em to the curb. Lousy Tigers messin with my bracket.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I always loathed Mark Chmura and his irreverant opposition to vowels. I suppose he'd say there's an invisible diacritic in there, but I don't want to hear it. He and the entire Welsh population need to go watch Electric Company. By the way, I thought the Vikings signed Holt already.

Posted by: DickCheneysDutchOvenCookies | March 20, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

I really hope that zorn has learned from that.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 11:54 AM

We can only hope, Greg. But since his predecessor had the same problem and has coached longer than most of us have been alive, I wouldn't bet on it. When you have an impulsive owner who has a rep for firing a coach at the drop of a hat, it tends to effect your coaching. Playing it more conservative, playing not to lose instead of to win, taking fewer chances on 4th down, etc. I'm not sure Zorn has that same Parcells attitude of "f*ck it, I'm doing it MY way, consequences be damned". That would be necessary to make it here.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

When lisitng Howard's stats you gotta include special team numbers also.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

I thought the Vikings signed Holt already.

Posted by: DickCheneysDutchOvenCookies | March 20, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

That was a different Holt...Glenn Holt a Kick returner

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

leevi, does it list the 10 teams, or not?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas is a knucklehead
Sincerely,
Charles Barkley

Posted by: alex35332 | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I’m going with Cooley as the best pick in recent years. Most if not all of the recent first rounders have been no-brainers (except maybe Carlos Rogers, who I would rank as a close 2nd to Cooley with hindsight). Cooley was a relatively unheard of guy who the Skins traded up to get in the 3rd. Having said that, Champ Bailey was a pretty darn good pick considering how they swindled coach Dikka out of the entire Saints draft and still ended up with Bailey (and Jansen)…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to put Taylor in there, and he might have risen to the top of the list, but his dangerous lifestyle sadly got him killed.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:58 AM

Your taint being handed to you in print, in t-minus 3..2..

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Further evidence that I am in the tank for UM, aside from DHoward.

I picked the to go to the final 4. I've been following this year thanks to the Big 10 Network channel. And they look pretty impressive this year.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

"...f*ck it, I'm doing it MY way, consequences be damned"

Posted by: brownwood26
------------------------------
This is such a good way to live your life, and I really mean that.
There is no way you can think and act this way if you're running around telling your guys to "stay [f-ing] medium".

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

I with Yod on Sean Taylor. Absolutely the best.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

leevi, does it list the 10 teams, or not?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM

Nope...just got off PFT and they don't name them. But I would think if we guessed, we'd get pretty close to the actual list...the teams who need a QB are pretty well known.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

i think my Heels are gonna take this tourney!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

I always loathed Mark Chmura and his irreverant opposition to vowels. I suppose he'd say there's an invisible diacritic in there, but I don't want to hear it. He and the entire Welsh population need to go watch Electric Company. By the way, I thought the Vikings signed Holt already.
Posted by: DickCheneysDutchOvenCookies | March 20, 2009 12:03 PM

I always hated how John Madden pronounced his name “Chu-meera”…..
And “powerful”……he needs to learn how to pronounce the word powerful. It is not supposed to sound like a golf par; “Paar-full”.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Hard to argue that 21 was not the greatest draft pick forget in the past 10 years the past 20 years, hell since DGreen

Posted by: alex35332 | March 20, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to put Taylor in there, and he might have risen to the top of the list, but his dangerous lifestyle sadly got him killed.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:58 AM

You did not just say he was killed because of his lifestyle? Oh geez you and wilbon I swear!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

wouldn't bet on it. When you have an impulsive owner who has a rep for firing a coach at the drop of a hat,

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:04 PM |

Brown,

With the exception of Shottenhiemer who he fired after one year, because he wanted control back who has he fired at the drop of a hat.

Please don't bring up the Norv firing, because he should have been fired 3 years befor Snyder baught the team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 20, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

I always hated how John Madden pronounced his name “Chu-meera”…..
And “powerful”……he needs to learn how to pronounce the word powerful. It is not supposed to sound like a golf par; “Paar-full”.


Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

Oh cmon Madden is funny LOL we will all miss fat John when he retires LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking Jets, Lions, Chicago, SF, who else....looking at Cutler...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

UM did look pretty good. Clemson was a decent team. Maybe if I had watched more big ten games I wouldn't have just assumed the cryin Illini could beat flippin Western Kentucky!

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

My favorite Madden play by play was in the Superbowl when the Pats beat the Rams....remember when he was saying that the Pats are making a mistake they need to just goto overtime etc tec...then the next two plays they got into FG range!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking Jets, Lions, Chicago, SF, who else....looking at Cutler...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking the vikes may jump in there...that might be the best landing place...vikes would be scary with A decent QB

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

Oh cmon Madden is funny LOL we will all miss fat John when he retires LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM |

Yeah, I'll miss him. It'll really be sad when Dick Enberg retires (OH MY!). I still miss hearing Curt Gowdy and Vin Scully calling play by plays...

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Cutler will be a Jet...said it 5 days ago and I am sticking to it. Its so obvious.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I don't know what the Redskins' plan for QB is, but if it isn't Cutler and they are content to leave Campbell with one year remaining on his contract, I'm starting to wonder if the plan for the QB position isn't a lot like the plan for defensive end and strongside linebacker: the plan is there is no plan. Could it be that Dan and Vinny are as numb-skulled as people believe, and that they cannot see any further than the next mega-big-name free agent signing? I hope not, because what does that leave us fans for hope at the QB position? Lure Brett Favre out of retirement next year? Trade Clinton Portis for Matt Leinart? The team should re-sign Campbell, and then draft or trade for someone next year; however, if that falls through, they would still have a guy on the roster who has started and won football games. And Cutler? Forget him. The asking price will be astronomically high and Washington cannot pay him.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 20, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

My favorite Madden play by play was in the Superbowl when the Pats beat the Rams....remember when he was saying that the Pats are making a mistake they need to just goto overtime etc tec...then the next two plays they got into FG range!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:15 PM

I remember that too....major backfire!

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't have just assumed the cryin Illini could beat flippin Western Kentucky!

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 12:14 PM

Right. I picked W. Kentucky.

There only 2 good Big 10 schools this year that can do damage.

Purdue and UMich.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I forgot Mich St. as well....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of commentators...

My friend was listening to the radio yesterday, forget what show, but they were fielding calls on whether anyone missed Billy Packer calling the tournament games. Needless to say, Packer will not be missed.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to put Taylor in there, and he might have risen to the top of the list, but his dangerous lifestyle sadly got him killed.
Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:58 AM

Your taint being handed to you in print, in t-minus 3..2..
Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:07 PM

TBDog, did you know Sean Taylor, personally?

Was his death was a direct correlation between his murderers and his past, 'dangerous lifestyle?'

Pretty dangerous to be sleeping in your own home. Especially when your wife and child are asleep.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Redskinhead, I think you are forgetting that we have Colt "Laufenberg" Brennan on the roster right now. He is a winner who has "it" and throws touchdown passes.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Please don't bring up the Norv firing, because he should have been fired 3 years befor Snyder baught the team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 20, 2009 12:13 PM

I agree that Norv was long overdue to be fired, but there is NEVER an excuse for firing your coach in the middle of a playoff race. When Norv got canned, the team was 7-6 and it wasn't out of the question that they win those last 3 games to get in the playoffs. Not to mention he coached the team to their only division title since Gibbs retired the FIRST time. If firing a coach with your team in position for the playoffs ISN'T impulsive, I'm not sure what is.

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I don't think we should be too worried about a defense that 4th best and added a Haynesworth.

Hall in place of Springs and Wynn for Evans

Even if we have one more good year from the O line as is what about 2010 and beyond

Andre Smith

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely think 21 was killed due to his lifestyle. Make no mistake, I loved Taylor. I loved his natural ability and how he wrecked people on the field. But if you look for trouble, you often find it. Off the top of my head I can cite the ATV gun incident in Miami as evidence that he made bad decisions off the field. I heard reports that he had turned a corner and matured and I consequently breathed a sigh of relief, but my relief was premature. His bad decisions and associations came back to haunt him. People with whom I associate have never broken into my house, never tried to rob me, and never shot me. It was his lifestyle that got him killed. It's a tragic lesson that other athletes can learn - superhuman ability on the field does not make you bullet-proof off the field. If he had played longer, I might have said he was the best draft pick ever, but his career was cut short, and it could have been prevented.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Norv was fired at the wrong time. We almost at the pinnacle of being on top of the NFC.

We should have never got Dion. Norv's team he devloped was almost a winner after a half decade of losing.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

I'd love to put Taylor in there, and he might have risen to the top of the list, but his dangerous lifestyle sadly got him killed.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 11:58 AM

Dangerous lifestyle?

Oh riiight, like sleeping IN YOUR HOME with your FAMILY in the middle of the night.

Oh no, you must mean playing FS for the Washington Redskins...

He wasn't the local dopeboy, pimp, murderer, or junkie - he was a young man coming into his own, who had his life taken by some people that he actually KNEW.

Wilbon, please post under your real name, or are you that alien looking d0uche, Cowlin Cowherd?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

ugh TBDog do we have to revisit this? Your gross simplification of the issue just makes everyone dumber and even weakens the uber-point you are trying to make.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Right. I picked W. Kentucky.

I'm happy for you. Apparently, that was the most common upset pick. Now, if I could have just gotten the never pick BYU memo I would have been set!!

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

It was his step sister's assiciates. Only one or 2 of them.

He didn't associate with any of them, save for giving them small jobs such as mowing his lawn.

Your point is now moot.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Norv was fired at the wrong time. We almost at the pinnacle of being on top of the NFC.

We should have never got Dion. Norv's team he devloped was almost a winner after a half decade of losing.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:34 PM

IMO, if they had a decent kicker that year they would have won at least 2 more games which would have prevented the firing. What makes me mad is that I just watched a "1999 season review" on NFL network and they showed Danny giving Norv the game ball after they cliched vs San Fran, and he was hugging Norv like long lost brothers who had made it through the war together....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, RedDMV... he KNEW them! Lifestyle...

Chrislarry, if you have a point to make, do so. How have I simplified the issue?

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"Off the top of my head I can cite the ATV gun incident in Miami as evidence that he made bad decisions off the field."

Which is completely and 100% unrelated to any of the circumstances surrounding his death.

"People with whom I associate have never broken into my house, never tried to rob me, and never shot me."

Which I guess leads to the conclusion, "If you grow up in a less-than-fortunate environment, good luck getting out alive."

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

the last time the skins drafted a USC LB it was Dallas Sartz in the 2 nd round and he never made an NFL squad.

Andre Smith, michael Oher, even if we did take a corner it may payoff

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

zeebs

'....Zorn said last season that the routes are supposed to be short it is up to the receiver to get another yard or 3...'

If this is true, why do everyone blame JC for not going downfield?

Posted by: SPUD2 | March 20, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely think 21 was killed due to his lifestyle. Make no mistake, I loved Taylor. I loved his natural ability and how he wrecked people on the field. But if you look for trouble, you often find it. Off the top of my head I can cite the ATV gun incident in Miami as evidence that he made bad decisions off the field. I heard reports that he had turned a corner and matured and I consequently breathed a sigh of relief, but my relief was premature. His bad decisions and associations came back to haunt him. People with whom I associate have never broken into my house, never tried to rob me, and never shot me. It was his lifestyle that got him killed. It's a tragic lesson that other athletes can learn - superhuman ability on the field does not make you bullet-proof off the field. If he had played longer, I might have said he was the best draft pick ever, but his career was cut short, and it could have been prevented.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Ummm that would be fine if Taylor knew the guys...He didn't know them they knew his girlfriends sister.

I disagree with you 100% Taylor had two things happen that he got into trouble with...The gun incident, which was nothing more than a dumb YOUNG choice he made when He left his PROPERTY to chase down 2 guys who stole his ATVs...His mistake was not calling the police and handling it himself...Which i have done before but i didn't have a gun I had a bat. Then the police file a charge on Taylor becuse he left the property with a gun to get his stuff back. The other was the DUI stop on 495...and honestly...I don't put him as athug for a DUI stop...If that is what you base him being a thug than you must think Billy kilmer, sonny, Riggins and the Hogs were all thugs...cause they went out drinking all the time...in fact Sonny adn Billy were famous fro that!

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

C'mon TBDog two thiefs break into his home when they thought he was away and were surprised to find him there...the MAN was defending his woman and little baby and you call him a thug because these punk 17 yearolds shoot and end his life....and somehow you blame Taylor....

i'm disgusted..You sure this is not Wilbon posting this?????

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

Leevi, I never mentioned the DUI... you did.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Man, it’s just like that time at thanksgiving dinner when my cousin announced that she was gay……I’m gonna finish my dinner in the other room……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

No tbdOG you are not dragging me into this morass, if thats how you feel, then fine. Seems like a very surface reading of the circumstances, evidence, history and a complete lack of empathy of ST or the "lifestyle" and social components.

But I am not changing your mind, and don't have the energy or desire to try.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Man, it’s just like that time at thanksgiving dinner when my cousin announced that she was gay……I’m gonna finish my dinner in the other room……

Posted by: dlhaze1

LMAO
JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Can we please talk about something else? I really couldn't care less if TBDog thinks ST21 was a thug who was at fault or whatever because I know he wasn't. Done and done.

Posted by: countystyle | March 20, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

Leevi, I didn't call him a thug. I merely said that his lifestyle is what got him killed. People he knew killed him. I would definitely defend my family if people broke into my house. If I had all the money that he had, I would also stay in a nice part of town and have a fancy alarm system. I don't know where his house was located, but I do know that there was no alarm. Again, a decision he made. I'm not saying he is to blame for his own death, but the decisions he made put him at a significantly higher risk for meeting an early death.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Sure. Agree to disagree. Fine with me. I did love the player, though.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

No I am agreeing that I really don't care what you think Tbdog. Totally different....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

HEY TB!

Where have you been living for the last year and a half? Do you know the story behind Sean Taylor's death?

Or are you just spoon fed by the critics of the man (Wilbon and Cowherd)?

read and get familiar and use your own damn judgement before you go popping off about sh*t you don't know nothing about...


"People with whom I associate have never broken into my house, never tried to rob me, and never shot me. It was his lifestyle that got him killed."


So tell me, how what I eat makes you sh*t? It doesn't, right? So where do you get off with this self-serving statement?

I'm pretty sure you've met people who you thought were good people, only to be proven wrong. Please, like you've never met some f'd up people in your lifetime.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Leevi, I never mentioned the DUI... you did.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

"I absolutely think 21 was killed due to his lifestyle"

that's what you said and you also said he was trouble off the field....The two incidents wee those two...so if you are not including the DUI stop then you are saying because of the one incident with the Stolen atvs is why he was a thug and led a bad lifestyle?

He did not lead abad life style...first off he went to a private prep school and his dad is a police chief ..he was not raised in the getto.....but my question is simply where do you come up with the fact he was a thug and led a bad troubled lifestyle? Your way off base

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

TBDog,

Have you ever been to Miami area? I'm not talking bout Osuth Beach...i'm talking about the real Miami? This stuff can happen to anyone who lives there...in fact this could happen to anyone anywhere....So if somebody breaks into your home who thinks your away...and you surprise them...defend your family and they shoot and kill you.....are you a thug who led a bad life style??

Ok moving on! LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Leevi, I didn't call him a thug. I merely said that his lifestyle is what got him killed. People he knew killed him. I would definitely defend my family if people broke into my house. If I had all the money that he had, I would also stay in a nice part of town and have a fancy alarm system. I don't know where his house was located, but I do know that there was no alarm. Again, a decision he made. I'm not saying he is to blame for his own death, but the decisions he made put him at a significantly higher risk for meeting an early death.

Posted by: TBDog

This is ABSOLUTELY flippin' ridiculous! One cannot "decide" who your family is - unless you simply desert them and find a new family! As has been mentioned before, Sean's murderers were associates of his step-sister (family!) - not someone he hung out with.

And there was an alarm system in the house - it was simply not turned on for some reason.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 20, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

was supposed to include a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Taylor

Was the trial delayed again?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

"And with the 13th pick in the 2009 Draft, Washington selects... what? They didn't get their pick in on time? New Orleans has selected..."

Man, that would suck.

Posted by: countystyle | March 20, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

I can promise you I've never been remotely thought of as living a thug lifestyle but I had a dbag friend of the stepdaughter's dbag former husband come by the house hoping to find something he liked and helped himself. Had I been home who knows what might have happened?? Moral of the story is that dbags happen and you just can't always control who you come in contact with.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Sean Taylor was awesome, and he was maturing. It is easy for people who grew up in the suburbs to be critical of those who grew up in bad areas.

Let's remeber sean for his strengths not his misfortunes

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

"People he knew killed him."

Yes.

"but the decisions he made put him at a significantly higher risk for meeting an early death."

No. It was not his decision to "know" these people. That's the environment he grew up in. One of them was his step-sister's association, from the neighborhood they were all originally from. His "lifestyle" had nothing to do with it, other than the fact that he was born into a less-than-fortunate environment and was essentially forced to "know" people like this.

Again, nothing Sean Taylor did by choice led to his death, other than the trivial fact that he didn't have an alarm system. And if that's part of his lifestyle that led to his death, then count me and my entire family growing up as leading risky lifestyle.

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I'm not saying he is to blame for his own death, but the decisions he made put him at a significantly higher risk for meeting an early death.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse
What bad decisions? Thats my point...you have basis what so ever....yes he did have an alarm...girlfriend said they forgot to turn it on...and he was in a decent part of town north of Miami.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

He was a heckuva player.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

I really wasn’t going to get pulled into TBDog stupid a** statement. However, let me teach you the difference from being a victim and lifestyle.

Victim: When you are at home asleep with your wife and infant child. Someone breaks into your house and (no matter if you had your alarm on or not) in the process of defending your family you are killed.

Lifestyle: You eat a bunch of fried foods, junk food, and don’t exercise at all. You end up with high blood pressure and rushed to the hospital with pain in your chest. (you damn right I am taking a shot at Wilbon)

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

As much as I think AH is a stud, I would rather have what the Giants got...AH is gonna earn his money cos Wynn wont get to the QB and Carter should move to LB. Problem is, we have NO capable ends other than him and that's just really sad.

Posted by: fullonfully | March 20, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

"If I had all the money that he had, I would also stay in a nice part of town and have a fancy alarm system. I don't know where his house was located, but I do know that there was no alarm"

From the "Dont let facts get in the way of your point" dept.

1. His house had an alarm....he was home, and didn't set the alarm.


2. He lived in a nice part of town I think they said his house was purchased for close to 900k, or thereabouts.

Your trying to defend your point without knowing, really, any of the facts of the case.

Go do some research, and you'll become elightened....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

good use of the facts cliche....entirely appropriate there....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

+++What knucklehead tendencies did Devin Thomas show as a rookie?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer+++

Where to begin? Oh, I know. Showing up to camp out of shape, per his head coach. Inability to line up right, or run routes right…Key penalty cost team big play. Colliding with Cooley on goal line play. Y’know, that sort of stuff.

Kid's got physical gifts. I hope he has the brainpower and common sense to knuckle down this year. He needs to start by showing up in shape. Not GOOD shape, Jerry Rice in his prime shape.

I wonder why these companies that train kids for the Combine don't sign guys who are already in the pros... to get ready for the season...

Anyone know?

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

Man, 21 could really deal some big hits.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"Lifestyle: You eat a bunch of fried foods, junk food, and don’t exercise at all. You end up with high blood pressure and rushed to the hospital with pain in your chest. (you damn right I am taking a shot at Wilbon)"

Simply stunning. Please tell me you've e-mailed this to him.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

(you damn right I am taking a shot at Wilbon)

JM220


Nice.

When PTI comes on I may eat a double cheeseburger with a side of pizza just cause I can & he can't.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

We need to lighten up the mood here. Have I ever shown you guys my Charles Mann impersonation? Check this out:

“Hi. I’m Charles Mann!”

Keep in mind that I am 40 and sound really white.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 1:02 PM | Report abuse

"Lifestyle: You eat a bunch of fried foods, junk food, and don’t exercise at all. You end up with high blood pressure and rushed to the hospital with pain in your chest. (you damn right I am taking a shot at Wilbon)"

I thought you were talking to me.....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

wow the Redskins select Andre Smith with the 13th pick. They have gotten a top 5 talent and a position of need. Watch out for the Skins this year....

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

+++He actually went as far as to call a player a "knuckle head" ? are you kidding me...

Posted by: leevi98+++

Actually, he didn't.

What the reporter actually wrote was: “Devin Thomas exhibiting knucklehead tendencies as a rookie”

It’s the difference between calling a poster an idiot and saying he has idiotic tendencies.

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

They currently still stand at around 11 million under the cap.

Figure ~4 million for the rookie pool. Maybe more.

That leaves 7-8 million ... Philips, Marcus Washington signings depending on what happens in the draft. Trading for a slightly disgruntled offensive linemen who feels he isn't paid enough?

A defensive lineman? There is always seems to be someone in Buffalo like that.

Deals that involve picks and players. They have to be working on that now ... because it will be too late by the time the draft rolls around.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

Well i live in the Orlando area....I am an audio engineer have to goto Miami off and on for work....i can definitely tell you...All of Miami is a crap hole other than tiny part of South Beach....

I carry a gun with me when i'm down there...thye have car jackings, house invasions and a very high murder rate....So much so the show "First 48" on A & E uses Miami homicide unit on their show....

The area is awful as a whole

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

+++He actually went as far as to call a player a "knuckle head" ? are you kidding me...

Posted by: leevi98+++

Actually, he didn't.

What the reporter actually wrote was: “Devin Thomas exhibiting knucklehead tendencies as a rookie”

It’s the difference between calling a poster an idiot and saying he has idiotic tendencies.

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Your right I stand corrected cork :)

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Okay, who decided to wake up Corky and Peri at the same time? You're fired.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

jm, lol, thats a great shot at wilbon, nicely played.....can't stand that fat bag of wind...."he embraced that lifestyle and refused to distance himself from it"....what a POS Wilbon is....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

"What the reporter actually wrote was: “Devin Thomas exhibiting knucklehead tendencies as a rookie”

It’s the difference between calling a poster an idiot and saying he has idiotic tendencies.

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009"

And that's why Thrash keeps coming in as the 3rd receiver and is always there on the specials. He shows up for games ...

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

"Okay, who decided to wake up Corky and Peri at the same time? You're fired.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009"

Careful, Priest Holmes might decide to channel Kryon of the Magnetic Service for Mista Moe again.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

I think the primary reason would be that they've already been picked by then and the players feel like they're set. Same reason the NFL's rookie indoctrination program is so woefully ineffective. They have no reason to care once the checks start coming in.

I think the real question is why teams don't demand workout clauses in rookie contracts the way they do in some vet contracts. Maybe they do and I'm just unaware of it.

BTW, if the Skins draft Smith they better get one in his contract.

Posted by: LarryBud | March 20, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

DAMN all this Tayor chat has got me stirred up thinking about what might have been....DAMMIT Why Sean?

image our D today and Sean with another season under his belt with Landry....

What could have been ...SIGH...

http://rlcustoms.com//images-os/nfl/redskins/taylor-landry1.jpg

http://rlcustoms.com//images-os/nfl/redskins/taylor-landry4.jpg

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:12 PM | Report abuse

CL you know I am always taking to you my friend.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Agree, Leevi. That would have been sick.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Agreed, I meant.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Agree, Leevi. That would have been sick.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Hell yeah! Oh Damn why Sean?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

I know OL and DL are big, often fat guys, but is it me or do Andre Smith and Raji look out-of-shape fat? NFL.com (I think) showed Smith's pro-day work out and Smith looks like a bowl of jello.

Posted by: skinswest | March 20, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Who was the Skins BEST Draft pick in recent years?

Samuels
Arrington
Jansen
Campbell
C Rogers
S Taylor
C Baily


Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse


Landry and Horton (so far) were good picks too.

Posted by: moosepod | March 20, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Norv's team he devloped was almost a winner after a half decade of losing.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 12:34 PM

This sounds like TheTruth boasting about the Charotte Bobcats being one game out of the last playoff spot. Happy days are here again!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

"Smith looks like a bowl of jello."

He can look like whatever he wants as long as he dominates like he did in college.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

skinsw, I don't care if Smith wears a bro, or a manzier, just as long as he mauls in the run game, and stone-walls guys in the pass game.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

Best Skins pick?

Easy, the guy who's a Pro Bowl anchor at one of the most critical positions:

Chris Samuels

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

skinsw, I don't care if Smith wears a bro, or a manzier, just as long as he mauls in the run game, and stone-walls guys in the pass game.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

True, if he's always been that way maybe it's no big deal - if not then you do have to wonder were his head is at- maybe Buges can light a fire under him.

Posted by: skinswest | March 20, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

More from dcsween in the I.Got.Nothin.Department ...

not sure whether jm220 is out there, but everytime I read "icetotalpackage", I think about how cold that would be ... and the family jewels shrinking up to the level of my tonsils.

That is all.

Posted by: dcsween | March 20, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Bean, I'll all aboard the Andre Smith train. I doubt he'll sniff 13 though.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

Fugitive former NFL QB killed in automobile accident in Greece
Posted: Friday March 20, 2009 1:04PM; CNN
Jeff Komlo-- anyone ever heard of him??

Komlo played for the Detroit Lions, Atlanta Falcons and Tampa Bay Buccaneers between 1979 and 1983.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

levi

'...The area--Miami-- is awful as a whole...'

How can anyone from a place--Orlando-- that's nothing but a tourist toilet call Miami awful?

I live in Palm Beach County and can honestly say that once you get off I-4, International Drive, Orlando is nothing but a dying southern city supported by the Disney rat and miles upon miles of porn shops, Publix stores, liquor stores, gun shop, transexual street walkers, used car lots, stripper palaces, and storefront churches.

In fact, Orlando is Miami without the beach and the women--two things which by themselves are worth serious points in my book.

Dade County by it self has more swagga than half the burgs most posters live in.

Trust me, bro--I'm hitting Key Biscayne tonight at about 12:00 pm, drank in hand.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

*I'm all aboard...Johnny Flynn is distracting me

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I swear, everytime I see that video of Smith running, it just cracks me up.

Now those are some real man boobies... why did they make him run with his shirt off like that?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

More from dcsween in the I.Got.Nothin.Department ...

not sure whether jm220 is out there, but everytime I read "icetotalpackage", I think about how cold that would be ... and the family jewels shrinking up to the level of my tonsils.

That is all.

Posted by: dcsween | March 20, 2009 1:32 PM

So this is what you mean when you write "I got nothing".

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

"why did they make him run with his shirt off like that?"

Maybe Vinny stole his shirt in hopes he'd fall to 13 after all the scouts threw up in their mouth

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:37 PM | Report abuse

dcsween that was just a little too much information.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

"Now those are some real man boobies... why did they make him run with his shirt off like that?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009"

The guy also has very long arms, and very quick feet.

He just needs a Snyderato 1 megabuck bonus ensuring that he keep his weight down and work out consistently with the personal trainers at Redskins Park.

He's going to be gone by 13.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

I continue to enjoy JLCs incessant reportings about how important a pass rushing DE and sacks are while our D corr. Gregg Blache often talks about how important the interior of the line is and disruption not stats are what is needed.

It is just funny at this point that the post is not reporting on the coaches personel priorities, but thier own. I am not 100% sure I agree with the skins, but I do know Blache knows more than I do about football and a hell of a lot more than JLC

Posted by: JLR75 | March 20, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator

'....Norv's team he devloped was almost a winner after a half decade of losing...'

I bet ol' Norv is fired after this season, and Gruden takes his place.

The San Diego screwed itself by chasing away Marty.

As if he ever needed much provocation to leave.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"So this is what you mean when you write "I got nothing".

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009"

Its all shriveled up ... needs to get the yokes on.
:)

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

I swear, everytime I see that video of Smith running, it just cracks me up.

Now those are some real man boobies... why did they make him run with his shirt off like that?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

If only he was yelling "Hey, Hey, Hey" while doing it.

Posted by: skinswest | March 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

He's going to be gone by 13.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:39 PM

If he's still on the board at 12, someone will trade up with Denver to grab him ahead of the 'Skins.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

hmm...Tenn pick is starting to look a little shaky.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

" bet ol' Norv is fired after this season, and Gruden takes his place.

The San Diego screwed itself by chasing away Marty.

As if he ever needed much provocation to leave.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009"

Norv fired the defensive coordinator in SD and picked his own. We all know what the final result is when that happens. He really didn't start to win in Washington until Snidely picked a DC for him. Does not say a lot for Norv.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

For what it's worth, I just discovered that Extreme Skins posted a comment on Haynesworth's signing, and attrtibuted it to me. I must say, the comment was too insightful, detailed and full of inside football knowledge to resemble anything that I ever post, so I'd like to extend my apologies to whoever DID post a "pros and cons" comment regarding Big Al's signing.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

"If he's still on the board at 12, someone will trade up with Denver to grab him ahead of the 'Skins.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009"

The guy has potential to play tackle and guard at a very high level. Kind of hard to pass up.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 1:44 PM | Report abuse

Fugitive former NFL QB killed in automobile accident in Greece
Posted: Friday March 20, 2009 1:04PM; CNN
Jeff Komlo-- anyone ever heard of him??

Komlo played for the Detroit Lions, Atlanta Falcons and Tampa Bay Buccaneers between 1979 and 1983.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 1:32 PM

One of the first of a long line of Delaware Blue Hen QB's to grace the NFL.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I went to Orlando about two years ago and I haven't been back since. Moe's assessment of Orlando is pretty much spot on.

Miami > Orlando - any day.

Now Miami? I went down there last summer - my, my, my, I had the time of my life... one of the best two weeks ever.

Besides the casinos, what is there to do in Vegas? Any adult video awards coming up there soon? I always wanted to go to one of those...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

levi

'...The area--Miami-- is awful as a whole...'

How can anyone from a place--Orlando-- that's nothing but a tourist toilet call Miami awful?

I live in Palm Beach County and can honestly say that once you get off I-4, International Drive, Orlando is nothing but a dying southern city supported by the Disney rat and miles upon miles of porn shops, Publix stores, liquor stores, gun shop, transexual street walkers, used car lots, stripper palaces, and storefront churches.

In fact, Orlando is Miami without the beach and the women--two things which by themselves are worth serious points in my book.

Dade County by it self has more swagga than half the burgs most posters live in.

Trust me, bro--I'm hitting Key Biscayne tonight at about 12:00 pm, drank in hand.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

First of all I am not from orlando I live in the orlando area i am FROM Northern VA,

Secondly I never said Orlando was any better...I stated miami is not such a friendly place and I have to carry a gun with me as well as all of the crew when we are there.

So before you blast me for something i didn't say read the pots a bit closer.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

Yoder

'... I'll all aboard the Andre Smith train. I doubt he'll sniff 13 though....'


But if he drops, the issue is will we find a trading partner who'll want to switch places so we can get him.

If he drops to like, say, picks 20-30, what playoff type team will want to switch places to come up to get a guy it wants so we can move into their slot to get Smith (better yet, will they break us off a low round pick in exchange, 'cause if they don't want to, why would the skins even move?).

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Well i live in the Orlando area....I am an audio engineer have to goto Miami off and on for work....i can definitely tell you...All of Miami is a crap hole other than tiny part of South Beach....

I carry a gun with me when i'm down there...thye have car jackings, house invasions and a very high murder rate....So much so the show "First 48" on A & E uses Miami homicide unit on their show....

The area is awful as a whole

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

So where in this post did I say orlando was better?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Who was the biggest redskins drafted bust:
...
Have at it!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 11:40 AM ============================================
sports_guru

Clearly...
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 20, 2009 1:47 PM | Report abuse

Norv should not have been fired when he was. In 1999 the Redskins were the 2nd highest scoring offense in the NFL, behind only the "Greatest Show on Turf" Super Bowl Rams team. They had a terrible defense (24th in points allowed) but had a +12 TO difference. That was the year Papa John's had that deal on pizzas (I think it was for every touchdown a dollar off or something like that; it has since changed to a free topping). We scored 20+ in all but two regular season games (17 against the Bills and Detroit, both losses) and only 13 against Tampa in the playoffs, where a botched snap from Dan Turk to Matt Turk caused a trip to the NFC Championship. Brad Johnson was the #5 QB in the league (Jeff George was #3, but found himself teamless...). Albert Connell and Michael Westbrook both had over 1100 yards receiving. Stephen Davis had 1405 yards in 14 games. Daniel Snyder ruined that team. Norv could have gotten us back to the playoffs.

Posted by: moosepod | March 20, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

read the pots a bit closer.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:46 PM


This is how the gypsies do it. First they read the tea leaves. But to fill in the details, they read the pots.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

In case anyone was curious:

"Komlo was on the lam while facing sentencing on a pair of DUI convictions in Chester County, Pennsylvania. He was also facing charges of cocaine possession and assault, and police wanted to question him about possible arson of his homes in West Palm Beach and Chester Springs, Pennsylvania"

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

leevi

I go to Miami often and never carry a gun or anything else.

I go to Orlando to see my family and never take a gun even though they live in the 'hood off OBT.

My brother in law who lives in New Carrolton, VA, he's the one with the gun cabinet.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Moe,

I'm thinking Smith won't sniff 13...as in he won't make it that far. Like someone said earlier, I think a team will trade up to get Smith if he lasts til 12, because they know Smith won't pass the Skins at 13.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I've heard a lot about Aaron Maybin. Everyone is saying that he bulked up 15 lbs and weighs close to 250LBS. I like that he has put on weight but I'm sticking with this scenario:

P. Daniels signs, Monty & Golston Sign &
#13- A. Smith / A. Maybin / Cushing
#80- Cody Brown OLB /Xavier Fulton OT
Rd. 5 - CB, LB, C
RD. 6 - CB, LB, C

Do you think Blache is happy with his new toys (Haynesworth & Hall)? The only thing missing is good ol' Lee Torrence!

But seriously, to take advantage of Hanyesworth's presence we gotta have a perimeter rush. Carter should benefit simply by having a down season last year; he's not the type of player that consistently drops in his production, season to season. Wilson had seven sacks in 32 games and I'm sure he played only 1/4 of the snaps. Buzzbee was a standout at Georgetown and this is only his third year. I guess I am overzealous in thinking that Haynesworth will greatly motivate & help these young DEs in camp and during the season (if they make it)?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

"I live in Palm Beach County and can honestly say that once you get off I-4, International Drive, Orlando is nothing but a dying southern city supported by Disney rat and miles upon miles of porn shops, Publix stores, liquor stores, gun shop, transexual street walkers, used car lots, stripper palaces, and storefront churches. In fact, Orlando is Miami without the beach and the women--two things which by themselves are worth serious points in my book."

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

miles and miles of porn shops? Funny..I only know of the 2 miles strtch on OBT which is far from the tourist area and publix stores are all over Florida including miami..there are women all over Florida...just most places do not have the money hungry plastic surgury women of Miami....transexual street walkers...hmmm funny Ft lauderdale/miami area is considered the gay capital of the state...

but anycase I never stated Orlanod was better...was defending Taylor and the crazy city he lived in...he didn't live in Orlando so that's a mute point really

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

TE, you can be hit or miss....for me, that was a hit! Hi-sterical...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

If anyone is familar with Chris Tucker in "Money Talks" there is this scene where he is in central booking and the guy in the cell with him (Fazion Love - 'Big Worm' in "Friday") starts to sort of "seduce" him... anyway Chris Tucker is sort of oblivious to his advances because he's telling his story. Eventually he catches on and says:

*In my Chris Tucker voice*

"Man get the hell off me man... where your shirt at?"

It's a funny a** scene if you haven't seen the movie, commentary doesn't do it justice.

That's what I thinkof when I see that video of Smith man boobies - with one pointed NNE and the other pointing SSW

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

leevi

I'm not trying to blast you out, bro', just trying to keep the jibba-jabbin flowing as I'm hyped for a night on the bay with Ms. Moe.

I feel you about Miami, but in a different way as the whole language barrier crap will make anyone an uptight American 'with the quickness' (Dade County slang btw).

Plus, to quote the great Rakim, "...it ain't where you from, it's where you at..."

I'm just yakking, bro. No offense meant.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

That's what I thinkof when I see that video of Smith man boobies - with one pointed NNE and the other pointing SSW
Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:57 PM |

Thanks, Red. Thanks lol!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

LMAO!

Here it is here.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Buzzbee was a standout at Georgetown ...

Posted by: matthewvickers

if we're talking hoops, being a standout at Georgetown is a good thing. Football, not so much

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

To be honest, you guys got me thinking about the Taylor debate. You mentioned the unfortunate circumstances in which he grew up as a contributing factor. I'll give that to you. Great point. that old "crabs climbing out of the pot" analogy comes to mind. His birth circumstances could very well have contributed.

Some of you stated that I didn't have all the facts and that the ATV incident was isolated. To this I say, "where there's smoke there's fire." I don't need a litany of supporting evidence to generate an opinion. I can look at the evidence, then extrapolate. If a student is applying to a college and the admissions panel sees that he got in trouble for cheating on a test, isn't that panel allowed to assume that he might have cheated on other tests but without being caught?

To further understand your point of view, are you saying that Taylor contributed zero to his own death? Do you look at the break-in as though it occurred in a vacuum? For example, would you say that Taylor's degree of responsibility is the same as it would be if... i don't know... he were waling down the sidewalk and a piano fell on his head?

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

Faizon Love and Warren Sapp...separated at birth?

I think Yes!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

Yoder

Mah-Bayd: I didn't get your drift.

I like what Gruden said during the combine when that clown Jamie Dukes was hating on Andre Smith:

Gruden," If he's so bad, why's he here? I'd take'm and ignore all that gossip crap. They guy is a football player, plain and simple."

'Nuff said.

The combine and these pro days things are wack. A lot of work out warriors excel now, but the football players show up in Sept.--just when you want'em.

Look at the tape of Smith crushing SEC quality linemen before passing judgement on him--man boobs and all.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

leevi

I go to Miami often and never carry a gun or anything else.

I go to Orlando to see my family and never take a gun even though they live in the 'hood off OBT.

My brother in law who lives in New Carrolton, VA, he's the one with the gun cabinet.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I have never had to use one in miami either and just because you don't carry a gun does not make it a safe city.

north miami second in most dangerous place in America to live...

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100dangerous/

Also near pro player stadium and "little havanna" is ranked # 13 in the us...
No. 13:
Miami Gardens, Florida

Rankings in Crime
Assault: 5
Murder: 24
Rape: 61
Motor Vehicle Theft: 39
Robbery: 12
Burglary: 32


Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

"To further understand your point of view, are you saying that Taylor contributed zero to his own death? Do you look at the break-in as though it occurred in a vacuum"

you're an idiot, go hold your breath til you pass out......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Lane Kiffin definitely doesn't stay medium!

...Tennessee’s assistant coaches ripped their shirts off, WWE style. They sprinted with several Tennessee players, including All-America defensive back Eric Berry, and the junior prospects to the front of the room to form a moshpit. They jumped up and down together, while hollering and screaming “U-T, Wild Boys. U-T, Wild Boys. U-T, Wild Boys.” Loganville tailback Storm Johnson said things got so crunk that “even the podium got knocked over.”

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

miami #2 of the worst places in America to raise a family


"Miami, Florida. Miami's bar scene may be a tropical playground for adults, but it doesn't have many playgrounds for children (only 1.4 per 10,000 residents). In addition, it has one of the worst crime rates and a shoddy graduation rate of 45 percent."

http://www.qualityhealth.com/the-10-worst-cities-to-raise-a-family-447/featuredArticle

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, that's an intelligent argument. Well done, my friend.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

'...plastic surgury women...'

INSERT William Shatner baritone: 'These plastic surgery women you speak of, can I go on Priceline.com and have one sent to my house?

Women today have fake hair, boobs, pants that give them booty junk they really don't have, underwear that flattens their stomachs, hi-tech make up, push up bras, and shoes that make them taller than what they really are.

But they all want a real man who is true to them in every way.

Go figure.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

That's what I thinkof when I see that video of Smith man boobies - with one pointed NNE and the other pointing SSW

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:57 PM |

Too bad they're man boobies. If he could do this and they were woman boobies then he'd be a "great locker room guy."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 2:12 PM | Report abuse

mattV, no problem. "Money Talks" is one of my favorite comedies. Him and Charlie Sheen were great together in that movie.

Money Talks > Any of the Rush Hour movies, IMO...

Warren Sapp and Faizon Love definitely look like family.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

That draft question got me thunkin ... Samuels is our ONLY 5+ year starter (when did R Thomas arrive?).

Other 'long' tenured Skins starters at this point are Cooley, Portis and Moss.

One of the underappreciated aspects of Art Monk was that he played at a high level for about 12 years -- really an anchor for the team. Looking at the current Skins roster, only Samuels is even remotely close to an anchor player.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

TBDog,

You do not need any evidence or sources, or truth to have an opinion.

My opinion? Taylor was becoming a man, a husband, a role model and a father. Someone who has and will continue to, change the lives of those around him.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 20, 2009 2:14 PM | Report abuse

leevi

I'm not trying to blast you out, bro', just trying to keep the jibba-jabbin flowing as I'm hyped for a night on the bay with Ms. Moe.

I feel you about Miami, but in a different way as the whole language barrier crap will make anyone an uptight American 'with the quickness' (Dade County slang btw).

Plus, to quote the great Rakim, "...it ain't where you from, it's where you at..."

I'm just yakking, bro. No offense meant.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

It's all good...I'm enjoying the coversation never was offended

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Wow, for once JLC and I agree on something. Like I said in earlier comments about the Cutler-Campbell trade internet rumors: there is no solid reporting on the 'skins pushing hard to trade for Cutler. (PFT, Bleacher, and the Examiner? C'mon, people. PFT and Bleacher make their living posting rumors to get eyeballs on their site. And the Examiner? Well...there is a reason it is a free paper, folks.)

And it looks like most of the "community" has calmed down a bit from a couple of days ago about this whole Cutler thing.

Kind of a letdown though - dickering over Golston's RFA value (5th round? 6th?) is not that zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Posted by: hithere1 | March 20, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

how in the world did the skins pull off that trade? i supposoe we know nothing about the cap....gonna be fun wacthing the offense now

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Methewvickers,

I agree with everything you just wrote.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Local fans know that Snyder will also be in the "rumor mill" when he comes to trades/pick ups. History shows Snyder is willing to pay bucks to get people.

So when Cutler's name came up, Snyder/Skins came up too.

Posted by: fearturtle44 | March 20, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

http://www.qualityhealth.com/the-10-worst-cities-to-raise-a-family-447/featuredArticle

Fayetteville, NC?

What do you expect when the city is Fort Bragg? I've spent some time down there... they call the place "Fayett-Nam"...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Norv could have gotten us back to the playoffs.


Posted by: moosepod | March 20, 2009 1:49 PM


Which is why I don't understand the knock on Norv. We lived through the bad years and had the good years stolen from us thanks to The Danny....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

leevi98 give details not able to pull it up at work.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

tb, wasn't trying to formulate any argument...you're an idiot...he was murdered in his own home....leaving behind a family...and why was he murdered?? Because the people who did this wanted to get rich quick, and were after money they thought was in the home....

So take your assinine opinion and screw......d-bag..

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse


Fayetteville, NC?

What do you expect when the city is Fort Bragg? I've spent some time down there... they call the place "Fayett-Nam"...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:20 PM


Yes Fayett-Nam is very bad. But, because the city is small, it doesn't register win the big yearly reports come out.

For all the talk abour MIA/Dade County, What about D.C.? We still the Murder Capital.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

leevi

I look at these stats and wonder, why the good people of Dade County can't work to b number one in at least two of these areas:

Rankings in Crime
Assault: 5
Murder: 24
Rape: 61
Motor Vehicle Theft: 39
Robbery: 12
Burglary: 32

Perhaps the numbers explain why the South Florida area remains the breeding ground for some of the best football players in the Nation:

Santana Moss
Chad Johnson
Sean Taylor
Anquan Boldin
Santonio Holmes
Fred Taylor
Antrell Rolle
Mike Barrow
Jesse Armstead
Willis McGahee
Frank Gore
Devin Hester

.....just off the top of the dome....

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

http://www.qualityhealth.com/the-10-worst-cities-to-raise-a-family-447/featuredArticle

Fayetteville, NC?

What do you expect when the city is Fort Bragg? I've spent some time down there... they call the place "Fayett-Nam"...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:20 PM | Report abuse

Red I think it's based off of popution numbers with crime rate percentage...

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

leevi98 give details not able to pull it up at work.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 20, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Details about what?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Beantown, that's part of the reason. I agree. But why how did those people know where he lived? They were guests at his parties. Why did he not have more security? Did his lifestyle expose him to lowlifes?

Personal attacks weaken your argument.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Dallas and Ft. Worth both made the list. Cowgirl loving scum rotting in its own filth. Such a lovely thought...

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Looks like I'm not the only one who continues to hold Sean Taylor in high regards...

"Get 'em", Bean.

Yeah, I'm co-signing. For Sean Taylor, I'll co-sign and post that defends him versus one that doesn't.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"Jesse Armstead"

Is actually a TX product. He is actually on the team that beats the team profiled in the amazing book Friday Night Lights for the TX state title.

Panther Mojo!

ps: All football fans should do themselves a favor and read FNL.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 2:31 PM | Report abuse

"For example, would you say that Taylor's degree of responsibility is the same as it would be if... i don't know... he were waling down the sidewalk and a piano fell on his head?"

Taylor's degree of responsibility extends so far as to say he neglected to turn on his alarm system and he made a poor decision in attempting to protect his family by threatening to fight the burglars rather than locking the door, calling the cops, and turning the other cheek.

Nobody is saying Sean Taylor was perfect. But the fact is that he was murdered in a manner that any person living in the city limits of DC could be murdered; that is simply by living in an area that is known to have a high crime rate.

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

I keep forgetting that Golston isn't in the house. We did have a very good defense last year.

Our two best DL were Golston and Evans. One is gone, the other not certain to be in the house.

I'm surprised Golston hasn't been getting solid offers, he earned a pretty good paycheck with his work last season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

"They were guests at his parties"

You say personal attacks weaken my argument, however what about you, getting facts like whats quoted above wrong, and how he had no alarm system.

What do those do for your argument. Do me a favor, and go and do some research on this topic, before you make a bigger azz of yourself...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 2:34 PM | Report abuse

Yes Fayett-Nam is very bad. But, because the city is small, it doesn't register win the big yearly reports come out.

For all the talk abour MIA/Dade County, What about D.C.? We still the Murder Capital.....

Posted by: 4thFloor

I thought that "title" went back and forth between New Orleans and D.C.

Southeast is the realest... even when my dad was coming up - in the 50s and 60s.

leevi, I guess that explains some of those cities on there...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

"Look at the tape of Smith crushing SEC quality linemen before passing judgement on him--man boobs and all."

Moe, I agree...all the man-boob and combine stuff is garbage. The kid can play, scouts know this, so he's not making it to 13.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

TBdog

'...Did his lifestyle expose him--Sean Taylor-- to lowlifes?...'

No: the police believe the murderers were friendly with his nieces, and when they came to a birthday party and saw how he, Taylor, lived and what gave out as gifts, thought they'd show up strapped and take what wasn't theirs.

TBdog, please don't try to make Sean out to be a dummy like Pacman or Rae Carruth: the brother was being a man to his family and learning to open up and embrace stardom.

The guy got killed him his bed with his woman--not in a strip club, bar, juke joint, or wrong place as he was a shy dude who kept to himself.

You can hate on a lot of the greedy lowlife NFL players who don't respect the blessings god and the NFL have given them.

Sean Taylor didn't 'bring his death on himself' like you suggest.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"For all the talk abour MIA/Dade County, What about D.C.? We still the Murder Capital....."

I thought Baltimore and Detroit were bouncing that honor back and forth.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

Southeast is the realest... even when my dad was coming up - in the 50s and 60s.

leevi, I guess that explains some of those cities on there...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:37 PM

Dude, SouthEast was 90% WHITE in the 50s/Early 60s.

The Whites left for the Suburbs after the King riots.

And blacks use to live in GTown (back in the 40s/50s)......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

From ST21 wiki page:

"In the immediate aftermath of Taylor's death, speculation on the internet and within the media suggested that the details surrounding Taylor's death were especially sinister. Among the rumors were:

*That a knife was left on Taylor's bed during the November 18 intrusion as a "message." Sharpstein recently clarified that the knife was a kitchen knife used by the intruders to pry things open during the first invasion and was tossed aside on the bed of Taylor's sister.

*That the phone lines to Taylor's home had been cut prior to the November 27 invasion in which he was killed. This was refuted by police investigators, who clarified that the residential phone simply was not working.

*That the intruders did not steal or intend to steal anything during either invasion of Taylor's home. The first police report did not address whether anything was stolen from Taylor's home. Although the police report mentioned that the desk and bed in Taylor's bedroom were rifled through, it did not specify if anything was stolen, presumably because Taylor was not present when his mother filed the police report to indicate if any of his belongings had been taken.

Hey TB! My homeboy Jimmy says: "Get Some facts, and come back and see me"!

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Who was the Skins BEST Draft pick in recent years?

Samuels
Arrington
Jansen
Campbell
C Rogers
S Taylor
C Baily


Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse


Landry and Horton (so far) were good picks too.

Posted by: moosepod | March 20, 2009 1:22 PM


Yeah.

I was on the fence about Landry, Horton is too early to tell. I would argue against him being on the list for now.

And I definitely blew it by leaving Cooley off. Brain fart.


Did I forget anybody else? Pierce maybe?


Seems like Samuels and Taylor are getting the most buzz to me.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Just because they signed Wynn does not mean he is a starter, I can't believe one of the young guys on he roster now can't beat out a 35 year old backup end that primarily was brought here to add depth.

If Andre Smith is available The Skins would be crazy not to take him yeah he has baggage but his play speaks for itself according to all the experts, the offensive line is the weakest link on this team....If he is not available I say take that linebacker out of USC , Cushing he can play all three LB positions and isbig , tough and fast enough to deal with tight ends and half backs as well as rushing the passer

Posted by: TheBeatDontStop | March 20, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Who predicted Utah ST over Marquette?

I did. hehehe...

And Tenn pver Oklahoma too........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Who predicted Utah ST over Marquette?

I did. hehehe...

And Tenn pver Oklahoma too........

Posted by: 4thFloor

-----

Didn't both of them lose....

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Hmm, 4th... well my pops is 52, so his coming of age was started in the late 60s through the 70s - my bad.

He grew up in the notorious Barry Farms projects - he said that he, unlike many of us, wanted to get out of the projects. The man hated SE D.C. so much he walked from SE to Alexandria on the regular...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Looks like I spoke too soon...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:53 PM | Report abuse

Um 4th don't you mean who had Marquette...b/c I did and they won...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

TBDog

In the field of Financial Analysis, we tend to call extrapolation a WAG, or wild ass guess. Your cheating example is a good one, but your comparison to the ATV incident is a logical fallacy (fallacy of comparison). The ATV incident was not the result of long standing issues with gangs, or people that Taylor tended to run with. It was the reaction of a young man with new riches responding to a theft of his belongings. It does NOT necessarily follow that his death was caused by any factors associated with the ATV incident. The asshats that broke into Taylor's house were young punks who were friends of a family member. So to claim that his lifestyle contributed to his death is not supported by the facts that are known; hence your opinion is faulty.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

BTW, Who predicted Utah ST over Marquette?

I did. hehehe...

And Tenn pver Oklahoma too........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 2:48 PM

Are you the same 4th who liked Six Flags stock? Well it's up 10% today -- from 19 to 21 cents a share.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Did Marquette just do Utah St. in at the buzzer?

Damn, I miss the "DAGGER!!!"

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

This preseason is probably DE Buzbee's last chance to impress the coaches and make the team. He has barely played any snaps in training camp and OTAs, due to injuries...

DE Jackson is an intriguing guy to watch this year. He showed flashes of being a decent player and could step up big as either the starting or backup LDE.

I doubt one of the draft picks will be a DE unless the Skins do not sign Daniels or Jackson/Wilson out plays Daniels/Wynn. The Skins are filling holes with stop-gap veterans and could wait until next year to draft more DEs. There simply would not be enough space on the team for Carter, Daniels, Wynn, Jackson, Wilson, and Buzbee + a new draft pick. Someone would have to go and it could end up being both Buzbee and Wilson.

I assume only four DEs will make the final roster (Carter, Daniels, Wynn, and Jackson), because the Skins will keep five DTs (Griffin, Haynesworth, Golston, Montgomery, and Alexander).

Posted by: siris | March 20, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

JohnDinHouston is bringing the heat today!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Damn, I miss the "DAGGER!!!"


Ha, it's "ONIONS!!!" in the college game. I love Raftery.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 20, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Did I forget anybody else? Pierce maybe?


Seems like Samuels and Taylor are getting the most buzz to me.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Pierce was an undrafted free agent

Posted by: jonthefisherman | March 20, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Yes the redskins have holes on the roster and is flawed,

BUT

This is season 2 for Zorn and JC17 to be in a same system. The former rookies of Kelly, Thomas, Davis, Rhinehardt should be greatly improved going into their second season. AH is a big improvement along the defensive line. Dockerty will improve the O-line add in the 4 draft picks the skins should be better off this season than last year.

Or at least this is how we should be thinking

Posted by: thehogs | March 20, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

Um 4th don't you mean who had Marquette...b/c I did and they won...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 2:54 PM

I thought those scores were final. They didn't show any time left. I thought it was over....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Pierce was an undrafted free agent

Posted by: jonthefisherman | March 20, 2009 3:06 PM |

Good memory. I thought he was a late round (6 or 7) pick up, but I think are correct.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

What if the Redskins spent a bunch of money on a list of 'past their prime' players like:
Rodney Harrison
Randy Moss
Junior Seau
Corey Dillon
Shawn Springs
Joey Galloway
Doug Flutie
Vinny Testaverde

Or gave big contracts to marginal players like:
Sammy Morris
Wes Welker


Or let solid 'core' guys leave like:
Assante Samuel
Ty Law
Willie McGinnist

Boy, J LaC sure would go crazy wouldn't he?
Good thing he doesn't work the beat for the Pats...
or maybe, just maybe, it's not always bad to sign older players and replace young guys with average players.

Posted by: jgarrisn | March 20, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

wes welker is hardly a marginal player....

jgarrisn what is your point? Seems like two key points out of your analogy, W/L record and SB won.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Are you the same 4th who liked Six Flags stock? Well it's up 10% today -- from 19 to 21 cents a share.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 2:57 PM

It'll be back up past a dollar by July.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

edvar

'....Samuels...'


Dolla for dolla the best redskin draft pick over the last couple of years.

And, again, if he somehow continues playing at a 'Pro Bowl' level (over the next 3-5 years), will his name pop up as the only possible redskin candidate for HOF honor--not that he belongs there-- over the last twenty years?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

6 Flags stock will rise sharply just after Snyder is forced to sell his stake....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

Ravens sign LJ Smith

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/20/lj-smith-to-ravens-is-a-done-deal/

Eagles sign FB Weaver...That will help westbrook a bunch...Weaver is also pretty good at catching out of the back field

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/20/eagles-land-leonard-weaver/

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

My point is that a sweeping statement from JLa-C like:
"you can't build a winning NFL team by signing old guys through free agency"
is flawed...

Clearly, the Patriots have done just fine following this approach.
Welker was considered a marginal player until he joined the Pats. Now he's above average at least.

I'm not defending the Snyder/Cerrato team building model... they don't seem to get it right with the older guys (Carrier, Smith, etc) or the marginal guys (Lloyd, Randel El, etc)... I'm just saying thier general template is not a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Posted by: jgarrisn | March 20, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

It'll be back up past a dollar by July.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 3:27 PM

Uh oh. You backed yourself into a corner now, 4th. The first rule of forecasting is "You can give a number OR a date, but you can never give a number AND a date."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

stuff like when leevi posts a link that I can't access makes my day that much longer...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

stuff like when leevi posts a link that I can't access makes my day that much longer...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

No worries Greg...It's just a joke cause of all the cutler talk....Just being funny :)

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 3:44 PM | Report abuse

No worries Greg...It's just a joke cause of all the cutler talk....Just being funny :)

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 3:44 PM

Yeah, realy funny leevi. So funny it made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 20, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Welker was good with a bad Miami team. I watched him numerous times there, he was not marginal...he was young and lots of potential...thus the Pats move.

There is no magic formula, its having talented/skilled people making the moves. IMO we have a deep lack of talent in the talent evaluator pool.

Let Vinny run Snyder media...lets put Morrocco Brown as GM. That would be my call if I was he Danny.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

Here is what I wish they would do. Trade back in the first round and also pick up a second rounder. Bite the bullet and admit their mistakes in WR from last year and pick up Hakeem Nicks from UNC with the first rounder and then go and get a RT with the second rounder. I know about our needs at RT, DE, and LB but mark my words, Nicks is going to fall somewhere between a Ricky Proehl and Art Monk as a receiver in abilities and attitude!

Posted by: rjohnson66 | March 20, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

only slightly humorous.....lol

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 20, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I'm so f-ing sour right now...

What up with Pitt, WV, and and Temple???

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

"Nicks is going to fall somewhere between a Ricky Proehl and Art Monk as a receiver in abilities and attitude!"

Isn't that kind of like saying Devin Thomas is going to fall somewhere between Brandon Stokely and Randy Moss in abilities and attitude?

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Uh oh. You backed yourself into a corner now, 4th. The first rule of forecasting is "You can give a number OR a date, but you can never give a number AND a date."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 3:39 PM

Didn't I tell you last week I am the new Cramer??

First rule of getting a crowd to listen:

"Making conservative decisions don't make ratings. Shoot for the moon."

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

At this point if Devin Thomas was Brandon Stokely I would be siced....

Red...Pitt will win...all #1 seeds are asleep in there first halves with the #16s...

But if Pitt loses 2/3 brackets are screewed and cheewed

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Let Vinny run Snyder media...lets put Morrocco Brown as GM. That would be my call if I was he Danny.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:47 PM

For all the Morrocco Brown worshippers:

Can M Brown be M Brown with D Snyder?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

"For all the Morrocco Brown worshippers:

Can M Brown be M Brown with D Snyder?"

I'd be willing to see!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

edvar

'....Samuels...'


Dolla for dolla the best redskin draft pick over the last couple of years.

And, again, if he somehow continues playing at a 'Pro Bowl' level (over the next 3-5 years), will his name pop up as the only possible redskin candidate for HOF honor--not that he belongs there-- over the last twenty years?

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 3:27 PM |

I'm inclined to think it's Samuels as well. Got a lot of good production out of Jansen (a second rounder) at the other side as well. Too bad he's gotten so banged up.

We need more picks like those two. Solid.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Pitt up by 1 at Half
Temple down by 6 with 14 minutes left
West Virginia down by 5 at half

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Don't forget that Cornell only down by 4......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

well then Pitt needs to wake UP!

Let's go!

cl, seems a lot of people are hating on Ovechkin and his celebrating... even his coach... I like it though.

That boy Ovechkin has swag on ice.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

red

'....What up with Pitt, WV, and and Temple???...'


Love it allyou want, but I hate college basketball.

I'd take the following all non-college attending rookie team:

Bryant
Garnett
Nitwotski
McGrady
James

Against any of the used up nobodies that play college ball today, against who ever wins this thing that annoys before the draft each year called March Madness.

And I don't see how the same people who cry 'socialism' think the NBA and NCAA have some kind of right to stop kids from making money by forcing them to spend time making them play 'amateur' basketball for a year or two--like a year on Miles Brand's hardwood plantation is somehow gonna make them better at buying bling, hooking up with groupies, and getting tattoos.

CBS, the annoying bald-headed announcers like Dick Vitale, Espn, the other cable sports networks, Vegas bookies, make a bundle pimping the billion dollar chick called college basketball every spring.

What does a broke-a$$ed kid playing a division I sport that rakes in millions but has horrible graduation rates get: memories.

Try paying your electric bill with memories one time.


Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I like the Mayhew hire in Detroit, for some reason the guy reminds me of Jerry Reese in his approach to his craft...

Morrocco Brown also reminds me of those two.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

swag on deez nutz one time Red- stay out of trouble this weekend bro.

Posted by: richard_cranium | March 20, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

F Ovie bashers....total morons!

His coach has been very Pro..but he is an old school guy and prolly felt pressure to at least put up a marginal protest.

The LAST thing the NHL should be doing is cutting the nutz off its young, uber-talented, and flashy stars...

Ovie rulz
Crosby drulz

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"Dolla for dolla the best redskin draft pick over the last couple of years.

And, again, if he somehow continues playing at a 'Pro Bowl' level (over the next 3-5 years), will his name pop up as the only possible redskin candidate for HOF honor--not that he belongs there-- over the last twenty years?
Posted by: MistaMoe | March 20, 2009"

He needs to move right if they wish to extend his career long enough so that they continue to get the same level of "bang for the buck". He has a long and lucrative contract.

There is no reason who wouldn't make all pro at right tackle while grooming a talented new left tackle.

Posted by: periculum | March 20, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Yeah Moe so you have said about 3000 times...........so some of us like it. Point taken.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"...annoying bald-headed announcers like Dick Vitale..."

I love college basketball but I've had enough Dick Vitale to last the rest of my life. At least Packer is gone.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

What knucklehead tendencies did Devin Thomas show as a rookie?

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Let's just put it this way..........he's got Michael Westbrook written all over him. He's not even showing up for voluntary workouts, this for a guy who could hardly get on the field last year and has already developed a rep for not working hard.

Posted by: virtueandvice | March 20, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

I absolutely think 21 was killed due to his lifestyle. Make no mistake, I loved Taylor. I loved his natural ability and how he wrecked people on the field. But if you look for trouble, you often find it. Off the top of my head I can cite the ATV gun incident in Miami as evidence that he made bad decisions off the field. I heard reports that he had turned a corner and matured and I consequently breathed a sigh of relief, but my relief was premature. His bad decisions and associations came back to haunt him. People with whom I associate have never broken into my house, never tried to rob me, and never shot me. It was his lifestyle that got him killed. It's a tragic lesson that other athletes can learn - superhuman ability on the field does not make you bullet-proof off the field. If he had played longer, I might have said he was the best draft pick ever, but his career was cut short, and it could have been prevented.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU POST SUCH GARBAGE!!!!!! If you had even bothered to gain some knowledge about the circumstances surrounding what happened you would feel like the dumba@@ you are!

Posted by: virtueandvice | March 20, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

I know this is a Football Blog, but what happened with Ovechkin and the HC?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

"Malcolm Kelly has suffered yet another knee injury..."

Was this recently or is he referring to his knee problems during the season? Somebody help me out please.

Posted by: hender_22 | March 20, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Maybe having WVU in my sweet 16 might not have been a great idea...

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

4th,

Nothing really...Ovie had a sorta over the top celebration of his 50th goal (pretended his stick was so "hot" he couldnt pick it up)....BB said basically maybe that was a bit much...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

I would agree then.

Win some Championships 1st. Then you can hot dog it all you want whenever you want.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

Damn, Moe... you can f up a wet dream dude...

I agree though college basketball is sometimes unwachable. I mainly just catch the highlights from college basketball and folow the tournament.

And for everyone of those guys on your list, they are double as many Kwame Browns. It took Kobe, Nowitzki, and McGrady a few years to catch on... remeber how Jermaine O'Neal started to fester on the Portland bench before being traded?

Remember air ballin Kobe?

And I don't hate on the NBA/NCAA forcing kids to attend one year of college... actually I think it should be two. The NBA only has two rounds... guys who declare out of HS sometimes had no business doing so, or could've used a year or two to hone their skills:

Taj McDavid - '96
Korleone Young - '98
Ellis Richardson - '98
Leon Smith - '99
Darius Miles - '00
DeShawn Stevenson - '00
Ousmane Cisse - '01
Tony Key - '01
DeAngelo Collins - '02
Lenny Cooke - '02
Ndudi Ebi - '03
James Lang - '03
Jackie Butler - '04
Sebastian Telfair - '04
Dorell Wright - '04
Ricky Sanchez - '05
Andray Blatche - '05
Louis Williams - '05

Some of those guys should have you like: "who the f%&*...?" Some are finally putting it together after four years of sitting on the bench...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

"Malcolm Kelly has suffered yet another knee injury..."

Was this recently or is he referring to his knee problems during the season? Somebody help me out please.

Posted by: hender_22 | March 20, 2009 4:24 PM

He didn't suffer another knee injury.

He had some 'clean up' done again on his knee right after the season. JZ said during the combine he will miss the 1st few OTAs so his knee will be fully healthy once and for all.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Pitt still down by 2.

Still no faith in #16 cL?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

With NHL ratings barely above dung chip tossing, the league should love the energy/excitement/enthusiasm that Ovie brings.
Plus, the players have a way of policing themselves.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 20, 2009 4:35 PM | Report abuse

O lineman used to be 250, then they were 250 lb men who bulked up to 275, then they made steroids a banned substance.

This opened the door for these 300-330 pound beasts that we see now.

Man boobs are funny, but who cares the guy can move and has great technique.

"The Hogs" monniker wasn't based on a low body fat %

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Ovie will probably extend Brashear's career, like Gretzky did for McSorley.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 20, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

I have a feeling that I know richard_cranium...

It's because of this reason, I'm going to say thanks - and leave it at that, dick.

C'mon dude, stop frontin' and tell me who you really are.

Me? Trouble? Naaaaaaah... wild out? Oh hell yeah...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

please Hockey/the caps need exciting players who bring some marque to the sport...Ovie best thing to happen to Hockey since Gretzky....give me an Fing break....

And Malcolm Kelly may never have fully healthy knees.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Isn't that kind of like saying Devin Thomas is going to fall somewhere between Brandon Stokely and Randy Moss in abilities and attitude?

Not really Proehl and obviously Monk always had great attitudes and worked their butts off. Also, while everyone here knows about Monk, Proehl was a very good possesion type receiver who caught everything thrown his way. Proehl was definitely a lot better than Stokely and without the attitude problems Moss has exhibited in the past (not necisarrily now).

Posted by: rjohnson66 | March 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I love Ovie's jumping into the glass celebrations - Cherry can stick it. I hated Ovie's hot stick - soooooo cheesy. Keep it real, not slapstick.

JohnDinHouston makes a good argument. I respect that. Doesn't change the fact that where there's smoke, there's fire.

Posted by: TBDog | March 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Uh, that's what I'm getting at cL. The product has been bland for like, ever...ratings blow. He's what they need...league should market him and what he does.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 20, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

If Ovechkin wants to stunt on the ice, then he can do that because 1) Dumb casual fans like me will tune in [I do sometimes already] and 2) He's a beast...

Ovechkin is the only hockey player that everyone of my friends who follow sports can identify - and that whining d0uche, Crosby.

If you don't want to see him celebrate, stop him. It's really that simple.

Ovechkin whiners = running up the score whiners

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

...if players take issue with his 'antics', they'll go after him...hence Brashear sticking around.

Posted by: 4-12 | March 20, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Cl - I don't have a problem with excitement such as running in to the glass.

But, dropping it like it's hot sounds like too much. Be glad they have an Old School guy to balance CP26 like antics.

Are they even leading their own division? Top 4 atleast? Like I said, back it up by winning the Cup....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Kelly had his knee scoped (again) at the end of the season. He should be healthy for OTAs and training camp this year. Hopefully, he got the message from coach Zorn loud and clear -- to ensure he's in top shape by the start of mandatory OTAs.

Kelly has a year of experience and at 6'4", 219lbs; he's the possession receiver the Skins have needed for years. Hopefully, he can stay healthy and win the #2 WR position.

Posted by: siris | March 20, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Louis Williams - '05

Louis went to high school in Snellville with the youngest. She came home one day talking about his platinum braces. I liked him a lot and I'm glad he is doing well but I wish he had gone to college for a couple of years.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

And Malcolm Kelly may never have fully healthy knees.

and maybe he will

Devin Thomas spent 1 year in college everyone knew he was RAW. There have been and will be some growing pains, but the guy should come around. And, he is an outsatnding KR.

We could get Knowshon Moreno at 13, he doesn't fill a hole but he's been compared to AP.

Only in the event that Smith and Oher are gone, should it be considered

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

WVU is closing in. I actually need them to win so my sweet 16 stays untouched......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

...We could get Knowshon Moreno at 13,

For the love of God nnooo....that Truth dude would be insufferable.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Win or lose, DeJuan Blair is going to have a back ache from carrying his bama SJK teammates today.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 20, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

4th they are leading SE division by a mile and are third in the eastern conference...1 point from second and have dominated the first place Bruins all year...

Come correct or go home...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I don't have a problem with ballers celebrating. It becomes one though when your team isn't doing well (Chad Johnson) or when you're really not that good (Freddie Mitchell & Damon Jones) in the first place.

Celebrating, taunting, and sh** talk is for the ballers. Low hung heads, humbleness, and that "aw shucks" attitude is for the scrubs.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Hard to say where Devin Thomas fits in right now. Perhaps he's the long term replacement for Thrash and become a quality #4 WR. It's also not out of the realm of possibility that he could step up in the next 2-3 years, start running routes more precisely, and eventually replace Moss as the #1 WR.

Posted by: siris | March 20, 2009 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Yeah if WVU loses...well its not good for me...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

4th, you're dead. You just don't know it yet.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 20, 2009 4:58 PM | Report abuse

We could get Knowshon Moreno at 13, he doesn't fill a hole but he's been compared to AP.

Only in the event that Smith and Oher are gone, should it be considered

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 20, 2009 4:49 PM

Now here's a brilliant idea on a Friday afternoon! The only way this would make sense is if Portis were suddenly out of football. Say, he got a lifetime sentence for being an insufferable ass. Or he moved to Haiti to study French and practice voo-doo. Otherwise, this makes about as much sense as wasting the pick on a place kicker.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Come correct or go home...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 4:53 PM

How more corrector can I come?

"Are they even leading their own division? Top 4 atleast? Like I said, back it up by winning the Cup....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 4:48 PM
"

All i did was ask a few questions and asked Ovie to atleast win 1 Cup.

And you trying to send me home? Well, I'm goin home. (It's 5pm).....

LH - Don't tell me it's because I picked Mich to go to the final 4........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Michigan aaaannnnnd UCLA.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | March 20, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

my bracket is in deep hurt. Maybe going with Cornell to win it all was bit of a stretch.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Outside their parents, I doubt many had Dayton winning on their bracket.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

F WVU

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

OK so we had two rookie WRs not prduce like seasoned all pro last year....one was hurt the other was not ready per the HC standards...

that being said why are so many down on these guys and already calling them a bust? Hell man give two years before you say BUST! Gosh fans on here are sooo over the top with everything.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 20, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

"I'd take the following all non-college attending rookie team:

Bryant
Garnett
Nitwotski
McGrady
James"

You're willing to put that squad up against this college-attending rookie squad?

Chris Paul
Brandon Roy
Dwyane Wade
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal

Personally, I'd take the latter. I wouldn't think twice about it.

Posted by: psps23 | March 20, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

My rookie team? The middle row of Deal or No Deal

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Vinny was on Redskins Nation today - Larry Michael asked him for updates on Phil Daniels, Marcus Washington, Khary Campbell. Vinny said they have offers out to Daniels and Washington and that both players are still weighing their options (although he sounded semi-positive about Daniels). Vinny said he thinks Khary is looking to "get paid." Does anyone know if we made an offer to Khary? Does not sound like he will return.

Larry also asked Vinny about the draft and the possibility of trading down. Larry said that is a possibility but if there is a great player at #13 the Skins will draft him. To me this sounds like he plans to keep the pick. Vinny was also asked if the player who will be starting at RT is currently on the roster and he said that is totally possible.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 20, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Ohhhhh that Vinny is a slippery one!

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

rjonson: "Bite the bullet and admit their mistakes in WR from last year and pick up Hakeem Nicks from UNC with the first rounder and then go and get a RT with the second rounder."

Always interesting, but I don't think 13 brings you a late first and a second rounder, or even two second rounders.

Nicks is an interesting player, but I dbout Cerrato or any other NFL GM admits mistakes that easily. Those WRs will have another year to prove themselves. Let's hope they do.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 20, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Can't take another WR in the early rounds. Need way too much help on O line, LB and DE. Have to address two of those three with our top two picks if we hold, or all three if we trade down.

NFC East requires O line domination when it's time to pound the football. And I don't care what version of WC offense Zorn is trying to run, we're gonna need to pound it come December.

Gotta build the lines.

Posted by: edvar | March 20, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

JLC and Vinny = Sean Connery and Alex Trebek on that Jeopardy skit on SNL

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 20, 2009 7:15 PM | Report abuse

+++Leevi, I didn't call him a thug. I merely said that his lifestyle is what got him killed. People he knew killed him. I would definitely defend my family if people broke into my house.+++


Yeah, I'm mostly thru a bottle of pretty good red, but I gotta tell you--I LOVE THIS Blog.

It's like frickin' crack cocaine.

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009 7:40 PM | Report abuse

+++I go to Orlando to see my family and never take a gun even though they live in the 'hood off OBT.

Posted by: MistaMoe ++

Mista, that's a bad mistake. If you watch as many police procedurals as I do, you'd know it's almost always a member of the family that done it.

This is why I pack heat in the house, but go outside unstrapped.

Posted by: TheCork | March 20, 2009 7:48 PM | Report abuse

Draft Pick Value Chart.

Says right here we can trade our 13th for a 25th and a 57th.

You just head on over to the NFL Dealer and swap 'em.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 20, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

John Clayton is saying there's a greater chance of A. Boldin going to the Eagles or Giants more than anyone else. Which sorta sux.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 7:57 PM | Report abuse

LH - I reserched UCLA very thouroughly (sp?), and I know they are sharp shooters. I am banking on them going on a hot streak.

I've watched a bunch of Mich games on the Big 10 Network and I chose to jump the curve and designate this year the year they come back onto the national scene.

As long UConn wins, I should be good either way since I am the only one who picked them to go all the way.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 8:02 PM | Report abuse

Lisa - K Campbell was offered like the Vets' Min. I recorded R Nation but haven't watched it yet. Kary thinks there's more money out there for him. He's getting his chance to find out.

Like Rock did last year and DEvans did this year. I can understand. With all these other dudes getting paid, he wants to get paid too. But he is only a STer and the redskins don't really pay them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 8:12 PM | Report abuse

My rookie team? The middle row of Deal or No Deal

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 20, 2009 6:03 PM

Good thinking, but there's not a single rookie on "Deal or No Deal." They're all seasoned veterans, paid to look like rookies. They could show you a few veteran moves, if they were so inclined.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

But he is only a STer and the redskins don't really pay them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 8:12 PM |

And as Rock found out, no one else pays them either. Maybe we could offer him a "bonus" of a partial ownership of Six Flags. How partial? 10,000 shares -- $2,200 today, but in July, $10,000.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 8:27 PM | Report abuse

John Clayton is saying there's a greater chance of A. Boldin going to the Eagles or Giants more than anyone else. Which sorta sux.

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 7:57 PM

If Boldin can be a TO-like cancer in the locker room, it's all good.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 20, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Post by edvar @ 7:11 PM is gospel truth.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 20, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but there has been a Devin Thomas sighting

EAST LANSING - The evidence of the Michigan State family atmosphere was clear for everyone to see yesterday at Michigan State annual Pro Day for its senior prospects heading to the NFL.
There was Washington Redskins wide receiver Devin Thomas, returning to East Lansing to help out a player who was instrumental in raising his stock, senior quarterback Brian Hoyer.

The Hoyer-to-Thomas connection was a theme throughout Thomas' very successful junior season en route to being selected in the second round of the NFL draft.

Posted by: TWISI | March 20, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

The Hoyer-to-Thomas connection was a theme throughout Thomas' very successful junior season en route to being selected in the second round of the NFL draft.

Posted by: TWISI | March 20, 2009 9:14 PM | =======================================
Also known as his only major college football season.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 20, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

RI posters: I am lucky to have at my keyboard with me right now Poopy McPoop. You've all heard of capologists, well, Poopy is a scatologist. Scat is just a fancy word for poop. While Poopy is with I thought he could do a little Q&A.
PM: Sure. Fire away Anton.
AC: Here is a recent RI post. Tell me what you think:

Colin CowTurd is coming to town Thursday and doing his live radio show. ...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 16, 2009 10:23 AM |

PM: You know Anton, there is often confusion out there in the public about the proper poopisms to use. CowTurd is one example. The proper poopism in this case is CowPie. I don't think anyone has ever seen a CowTurd.
AC: Wow. You sure know your poop.
PM: Thanks. I'm afraid I am going to have to shove off. Sorry I can't stay any longer, but duty calls!
AC: Thanks for dropping by.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 20, 2009 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Bracket, I'd like you to meet two friends of mine, Hell and Handbasket. Say, how bout we go for a ride............

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Now those are some real man boobies... why did they make him run with his shirt off like that?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 20, 2009 1:35 PM |

It was in retaliation for the way the dude stiffed them at the Combine.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 20, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Today's not a good day for Obama...

1st, he made a joke liking his terrible bowling score to one participating in the special olympics.

Then, the CBO's estimate of Obama's current year budget and 10 year plan would add $2.3 Trillion dollars more than his people estimated, which means this year's budget won't pass as is.


And the worse of them all, his bracket is already busted. How will he respond to reporters that will question his supposed basketball knowledge and expertise........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to thank BC, WVU, & Utah for sending the jv teams so that the other guys would have a sporting chance.

Oh, and lets not forget Wake who is down 17 to a high school team from Ohio. I'm gonna run out of Corona soon. Good thing I have some Capt. Morgan left. The morning may suck bad!

Posted by: will_ga | March 20, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 20, 2009 10:05 PM

After going back and reading it a 3rd time, I got it and finally laughed after looking puzzled!

I'm slow, I know it......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

But he is only a STer and the redskins don't really pay them......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 8:12 PM |

And as Rock found out, no one else pays them either. ................

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 20, 2009 8:27 PM

Only the fast ST returner's get a nice check.

One's that are game changers. Can help take their team to the SB during the playoffs. Can maybe return a KO 99 yards of the biggest stage when you're team needs it. And even help them win it and maybe get the SB MVP while doing all of it.

I wonder if there have been any players like that? Hmmmm....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 10:37 PM | Report abuse

6 Flags stock will rise sharply just after Snyder is forced to sell his stake....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 20, 2009 3:30 PM

Not until AIG is able to sell its stake in Six Flags. [I don't even know what that means.]

Now I'm just intrigued by this Andre Smith thing. I know about him cutting class at the Combine. And the man boobs. And the weight gain since the season ended. And the TOTAL SOLIDNESS of his beastliness of his college career [he started several years, right? Has he broken any bones or torn any ligaments in that time?] Is he the one who is also the guy in some (upcoming?) book ... or documentary?

Anyway, the one thing I really want to see is some internet film on this guy running out of pads (shirt or no shirt). Pft guy has been calling him Andre "The Giant ... Boobs" Smith. Has a link been posted up here yet?

Also, I'd pay Khary Campbell more than vet minimum (maybe 150% ... hey, man, there's a recession going on).

Also, I think I forgot about Chris Wilson. I'd take Wilson over Wynn ... but Daniels over Wilson (assuming Daniels' knee is good all the way through camp, but doesn't get more than a full quarter's worth of snaps). Its possible that we might possibly be OK at DE.


Posted by: dcsween | March 20, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

Also, if Vinny is to be believed that the starting right tackle is currently on the roster, then he's talking about Heyer or they just re-signed Fabini today. He cannot be talking about Jansen. I understand that Jansen is the cap-unfriendliest cut of this past year's starters, but I'm saying that he will not, objectively, but able to "earn" that spot based on his performance all the way leading up to Week One.

Also, if they do draft an offensive tackle, then I'm thinking that they end up cutting Heyer before Jansen ... because Jansen would be the presumed third tackle (first off the bench) ... and second center. And Kendall would be the #3 guard (assuming they can keep Kendall).

Is the #2 non-USC OLB (Maybin?) a strong side guy or a weakside (safety-type) guy?

Posted by: dcsween | March 20, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

It is conceivable to me that they would use the first round pick on a linebacker ... and plan on the starters being Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Kendall, and Heyer (keeping Jansen, Thomas, and Rinehart as the spares). I think that would depend on whether they can get Kendall. If not, then it seems like they'd have to get a tackle.

If they get a new right tackle, then I think it would Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Thomas, new guy (with Jansen, Rinehart, Heyer as the spares). And I guess hope for the best that a good LB is around in the 3rd round ...

Its a dilly of a pickle really, not to have a second round pick.

Posted by: dcsween | March 20, 2009 11:15 PM | Report abuse

Sween:

I'm too lazy too find the video.

According to Vinny, Wynn/Daniels will play run downs and they'll have someone else in passing downs. He didn't say who, though. I would think that would be Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson.

Andre Smith won't be around #13. He is top 5, but won't make it out of the top 8. So, forget you ever even knew the name.

Oher has the biography/general football book currently being pimped by cL. Remember, it's NO to Oher.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:19 PM | Report abuse

I think Heyer is a good player lacking experience. To me he has shown a steady improvement. I'm hoping this offseason he works on his run blocking, and that he stays healthy during the regular season.

Posted by: TWISI | March 20, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

Sweeny, we will not be getting another RT. It is on the bottom of Vinny's to do list. He has other more pressing needs when we already have 2 starting caliber RTs on the 53 man roster now.

When (chris) Larry Michaels asked about MWash, he stated it's on him. Skins made an offer to him and he hasn't gotten back (prob because it was only for the Vets' min).

But when they mentioned K Campbell, Vinny looked straight into the camera, no smiles, and said, 'He's trying to get paid.' Next question. I don't see Kary coming back......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

Sween, Vinny did not say our starting RT WAS currently on the team - he said he COULD be - and this was in response to Larry's question "is it possible our starting RT is currently a Redskin?" I think Larry was asking Vinny this because of Jansen's remarks in the Times yesterday.

That being said, it still sounded to me like we will not be drafting an O lineman -at least not at #13.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 20, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

Lisa_R I inferred the same thing. I think the skins are thinking SAM LB who could rush the passer at #13, because on their board their top players at OT will be drafted. Vinny is going to pick the best player at #13 either at OT or LB (assuming Daniels signs). The draft has depth on the OL into round three. I'm getting the feeling that the FO thinks Bugles could mold a more raw talent from the third round into a above average starter after a couple of years. That being said, if by some miracle Andre Smith falls to #13, I think they'll draft him.

Posted by: TWISI | March 21, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

I am not pimping the book 4th, excuse a cat for being well read. Reading, try it sometime, then maybe you can bring your right ratio above like %15......

Keep pimping Norv and Bruce Smith there 4th...

and the chris larry micheals joke...really? Wow... beyond not funny...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:12 AM | Report abuse

F WVU
and
wake forrest

F mid level big conference teams...

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Wisconsin beetches!!!!! In tWO mfing brackets!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:18 AM | Report abuse

Sienna is fing me ....hard...but wow two huge threes....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

guess I am monoblogging the ncaa's

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:20 AM | Report abuse

2 great endings. And the 1st 2 games I've watched...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 12:26 AM | Report abuse

You're right. I'm bad at reading...

I will also continue to pimp DHoward/UM/and Huckabee...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

I did pick Sienna in RI pool...sweet!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Oher has the biography/general football book currently being pimped by cL. Remember, it's NO to Oher.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 20, 2009 11:19 PM
=============================================
There's no limit to the amount of things you are happy to be 100% wrong about, is there?

But I am right with you on this: I'm darned mad that Obama lied us into a needless war with Iraq.

I'm definitely voting for Bush next time!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 12:48 AM | Report abuse

""17. Josh Freeman - New York Jets : This is where things get very interesting. Several teams want Freeman and could have to trade ahead of this pick or with the Jets to get him. Freeman's stock is soaring."

Talent-wise, he's Joe Flaocc II. Problem is, his college career was distinctly underwhelming. One of those guys who tantalizes the fans with brilliance and then goes suddenly, startlingly inept in mid-game.

Flacco was a gamble because of his Div II background. So far it appears the gamble worked out. Freeman is a gamble because of his inconsistency. Of the two, I think Flacco was the better bet.


Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 6:23 AM | Report abuse

dcsween: "It is conceivable to me that they would use the first round pick on a linebacker ... and plan on the starters being Samuels, Dockery, Rabach, Kendall, and Heyer (keeping Jansen, Thomas, and Rinehart as the spares)"

Shouldn't be. That could easily happen. You who's the biggest question mark in that scenario? Rinehart. If he doesn't have a good camp, they might give up.

On the Wynn/Daniels pairing, don't forget both can move inside and play tackle. That's a big advantage on passing downs. Particularly when your starter Griffin has a shoulder that acts up.

I'd go with a pass rusher at 13. For two reasons. First, there are several good ones. Second, there's depth but no clear star among the OTs (unlike last year). Third, wouldn't cost you much to cut one of those speed rushers they've been collecting.

When Vinny says he'll take the best available at the time, he probably means it, but there will be two or three guys on his list that are so close as to be indistinguishable. So he's really leaving himself some options.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 7:38 AM | Report abuse

"...Stafford lighting it up at his pro-day, helped the skins. Posted by: BeantownGreg"

Yes it did. Now if only Sanchez and Freeman do as well, we could see a real change in the draft order in April.

Stafford has a beautiful arm. He throws a quick, catchable ball. Thing is, he doesn't appear to be that quick a study. So if he gets a coordinator who's patient and simplifies the offense for him, he could play early and play fairly well.

One thing to note: he doesn't do as well under pressure. No QB does, but some need more protection than others. Stafford has to be able to hold the ball long enough to find the receiver (one reason you shouldn't put too many reads into the pattern).

Sanchez is a different QB entirely. Also a good arm, but not as strong. And he's more mobile, and better at improvising when the protection breaks down. A West Coast QB.

Freeman is a gamble. Best arm in the draft, like Baltimore Joe last year. A full six-six and two hundred thirty pounds. Not immobile, either. The danger is if he turns out to be one of those million-dollar arm, five cent head types. The fans at K-State can tell you about that.

QB is unlike any other position in that scouts and GMs and coaches and other people who should know better get carried away with the romance of physical talent. Look at the guy Oakland drafted out of LSU. He's just learning to play now. And that's not a good position to be in -- on an Al Davis team that's losing big and losing hard.

Jay Cutler has been a better QB than Matt Leinart and Vince Young since all three were in college. He just hadn't played on a very good football team. When he finally did get some of the advantages the others had, he discovered he really didn't know how to play with talent around him. He was used to being the Lone Ranger.

When the dust clears, he'll still be a better QB than the other two.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

4th Floor: "1st, he made a joke liking his terrible bowling score to one participating in the special olympics. Then, the CBO's estimate of Obama's current year budget and 10 year plan would add $2.3 Trillion dollars more than his people estimated, which means this year's budget won't pass as is. And the worse of them all, his bracket is already busted. How will he respond to reporters that will question his supposed basketball knowledge and expertise... '

OK, tell me why the above appears in a Redskins blog? Not even one with an NCAA topic?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Reading, try it sometime,

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 12:12 AM

ChRiS LaRry, Anyone who can keep up with the posts on this blog has to be an avid reader. And anyone who posts as much as periculum has to be an infinite number of monkeys with keyboards.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 8:17 AM | Report abuse

I know I will get ripped for this but I'm gonna open this can of worms anyway....

Why is it that Jay Cutler has been "crowned" already as the next phenom QB, but Jason Campell is too slow, too stupid and still "has to prove himself"? Jay Cutler hasn't won anything. He is a good young QB, but so is JC. I feel that black QB's have gotten many more opportunities, but not the benefit of the doubt.

JC has to win and win soon and I will certainly concede that he may not be the QB for this team with a poor season next year, but why are some so sure about Cutler?

I think it's worth the discussion.

Posted by: rickyroge | March 21, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

OK, tell me why the above appears in a Redskins blog?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 8:03 AM

Gosh, Samson, don't be so literal-minded. The name of the blog is "Redskins Insider" but anyone who has been here more than a week realizes that the topic of the blog is jibba-jabba. How do you think we got 400 posts on a slow Friday when there is no Redskins news at all?

Now, politics is always the Third Rail of jibba-jabba, but the post belongs here as much as your post questioning why it's here. As Harry Truman said "If you can't stand the jibba-jabba, then stay out of the Redskins Insider." Or did he say "The jibba-jabba stops here"?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

why are some so sure about Cutler?

Posted by: rickyroge | March 21, 2009 8:33 AM

Because most of them have even less patience than Vinnie and worse judgement than Dan Snyder. For these types, the grass is always greener in the other team's stadium.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

talentevaluator: "Now, politics is always the Third Rail of jibba-jabba, but the post belongs here as much as your post questioning why it's here. As Harry Truman said "If you can't stand the jibba-jabba, then stay out of the Redskins Insider." Or did he say "The jibba-jabba stops here"?

Then rename it "JibbaJabbaHut." So Rush knows where to find it.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

rickyrogde: "Why is it that Jay Cutler has been "crowned" already as the next phenom QB, but Jason Campell is too slow, too stupid and still "has to prove himself"? Jay Cutler hasn't won anything. He is a good young QB, but so is JC. I feel that black QB's have gotten many more opportunities, but not the benefit of the doubt."

Well, Cutler is a more talented QB than Jason Campbell. Doesn't mean he's better. Brett Favre is more talented than Tom Brady.

I think it would be stupid to give up on Campbell after what by all rights was a decent season on his part. But that's the NFL. I mean, Tampa fired its coach for a 4 game losing streak. Denver fired Mike Shanahan for... wait a minute, why did Denver fire Mike Shanahan?

Dumb's the rule in today's NFL. WHat Jason Campbell needs is a little luck. He's improving right in front of our eyes, but can we see it?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Then rename it "JibbaJabbaHut." So Rush knows where to find it.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 9:03 AM

Huh? What does this mean? Is Rush searching for something called JibbaJabbaHut? And, if so, why do you want to help him find it?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

rickyroge I think you make some good points.

To me the question is, if we were to replace Campbell, would Cutler be the right choice or just the choice because he appears to be available and has a big arm (and mouth).

I just think he brings a different set of problems with him, and in a year or two, we'll all be complaining about that instead.

I'd rather play Campbell this year and tell him "no excuses, up or out" and see what he's got. Understanding this is a team sport, you have to identify measurable goals for him up front such as TD/INT ratios, wins, 4th Q combacks, QB ratings, completion percentages, etc.

If Cutler were not on the street, we would never have raised his name as the Messiah.

Just look at the difference between how each is handling their situation of uncertainty. One is mentioned in trade rumors, one is in the last year of their contract and has not been extended - both are vulnerable. One is having a little hissy fit and throwing a self centered tantrum and one is accepting it as a challenge knowing ultimately it's his responsibility to earn the coached trust and is stepping up to the plate.

Which one do you want leading your team into combat?

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Rush is Jibba Jabba the Hutt.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Rush is Jibba Jabba the Hutt.


I think he just slurped down a large toad...

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

...and thanks Alan4

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Pat Kirwan has an interesting table in his column on NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f5dc39&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The table shows the number of rookie starts for each NFL team. The worst team for rookie starts? Pittsburgh Steelers, who had one rookie start one game. And, the best team for rookie starts? Kansas City Chieves with 70 rookie starts. So, are rookie starts a good thing or a bad thing?

The Redskins had 14 rookie starts last year. This placed them at number 22 in the league, although four teams had only 15 or 16 rookie starts, so that the 'Skins were roughly in the middle of the pack. Based on TheCork's posts I would have thought that we were dead last. Of course, if we were last then we would have been the Steelers. And if we were first, we really would have been dead.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

me be post 401.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 21, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

There's no limit to the amount of things you are happy to be 100% wrong about, is there?

But I am right with you on this: I'm darned mad that Obama lied us into a needless war with Iraq.

I'm definitely voting for Bush next time!
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 12:48 AM

I come off looking that bad? Maybe I'll start inserting a filter from my brain to my typing hands.

I thought it was acceptable to rouse a president. We are in washington. And the joke was really about the brackets.

What did I do wrong again? Free will?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

OK, tell me why the above appears in a Redskins blog? Not even one with an NCAA topic?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 8:03 AM

Dude, did you read the last paragraph? It was about the brackets. This is Washington. Too many panty wearers today.....

If what I wrote isn't acceptable, than this isn't america. RI is it's own soverign nation....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Why is it that Jay Cutler has been "crowned" already as the next phenom QB, but Jason Campell is too slow, too stupid and still "has to prove himself"? Jay Cutler hasn't won anything. He is a good young QB, but so is JC. I feel that black QB's have gotten many more opportunities, but not the benefit of the doubt.

JC has to win and win soon and I will certainly concede that he may not be the QB for this team with a poor season next year, but why are some so sure about Cutler?

I think it's worth the discussion.


Posted by: rickyroge | March 21, 2009 8:33 AM

I don't only because I know plenty of black people ready to move on from JC17 or atleast letting this year be his last chance.

I would actually say he is getting more chances because of his skin color. Because everyone wants to give him every chance possible.

As for Cutler, he has never played with a defense like Campbell has. Denver's final scores are always in the 20s and 30s for both teams. So the theory is you get a high scoring O with a staunch D, the skies are the limit......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

What did I do wrong again? Free will?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:01 AM ========================================
It was dissing Oher again. I think he's got a better shot to become an a tackle in the NFL than A. Smith.

As for criticizing the preznit, go ahead. But I'm going to throw verbal bricks at anyone who's waking up now to whine about the deficit after they snoozed though 8 years of Bush-Cheney running it up to 11 trillion.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

"Rush is Jibba Jabba the Hutt"

Yep. Now we know why Talent Evaluator doesn't sign himself "Weak Joke Evaluator."

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

I think JC is GREAT. After years of wuerfull, frerotte, shuler, matthews, george, brunell, and ramsay, finally there isn't a ? at QB.

his PRO stats meet all of the criteria a college QB needs to be considered by an NFL team.

The only stat he needs improvment on is TD's. We haven't had a fade route WR, Zorn likes the short passing game, he was under tremendous pressure, and was hardly ever given a shoet field from a TO.

Cutler may have more natural talent, but we won SB's with rypien, williams, and theismann.

If he has a bad year the FO will probably go for a FA with big $. JC will have a big year thought just like last year, The SKins will be better and so will he.


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

"I always thought Heath Shuler never really got a fair shot….I know his stats were bad and he got injured a few times, but those were some pretty horrible teams he was on. Everyone got so enamored with Frerotte, that Heath was just pretty much shown the door. Now I am not saying he was good, but I just wonder how his career would have turned out of he had been drafted onto a decent team. Of course that was before I had NFL ticket so I did not get to see very many games he played in. I think I remember him beating Dallas once in 95 when they went to the Super Bowl….I guess that’s the only thing that stuck with me. Go ahead, have at me….."

No thanks. I liked Heath too until I saw what happened in New Orleans. He really didn't get the pro game. In the way that Ryan Leaf didn't get it.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Cutler doesn't have to play the Giants, Eagles, and Cowgirls defenses 2 every year.

Campbell would whoop Cutler's ass, that's gotta be worth something

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

ITTDGYa - I just see Oher as not as good as advertised, ala Robert Gallery. That's al. And I just constantly state my position with him because I see his name come up waay to much. And no way we're picking up a T anyway @13.

As far as the other stuff, How did I get associated with Bush? I never supported him (accept for the week immediately after 9/11 as I was trying to stand as one country with everyone). I never said anything pro-Bush in here and in fact have railed against him.

I was trying to divert Obama's current issues by pointing to his bracket. That's all.
I am neither republican nor democrat. I am just a realist and pragmatist.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Now that I mentioned it, why does Talent Evaluator style himself Talent Evaluator? Is it because he knows a lot about evaluating talent? Does it for a living, like Mel K? Loves it with a passion greater than our understanding? Real initials TE, and somebody had already grabbed Tight_End? His middle name is actuall _?

It's a mystery, all right.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

4th Floor: "I am just a realist and pragmatist......."

Now you have to admit, that's downright unAmerican.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

I agree they should have let Heath play. Let him crash & burn completely. Then put Frerotte in.

The guy who REALLY didn't get a chance was Ramsey. He threw a 79 yd td to Lloyd in the 1st Q of the Bears game, a couple series later he's yanked.

It took Brunell 7 or 8 weeks to throw a 79 yd td. Also, we took a dump on Lloyd shortly after.

I don't care if the guy was a jerk PLAY HIM

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

Cutler doesn't have to play the Giants, Eagles, and Cowgirls defenses 2 every year.

Campbell would whoop Cutler's ass, that's gotta be worth something

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:33 AM

And that's the other thing to consider. But, I believe it's only a low scoring affair when the skins play a NFC East opponnent vs. other NFC East teams playing each other........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

pabrian2003: "Cutler may have more natural talent, but we won SB's with rypien, williams, and theismann."

And went to the NFC title game with the immortal Jay Schroeder. And schooled Stan Humphries so well he took San Diego to a Super Bowl. And managed to win several strike games led by somebody named Ed Rubbert. And roared into the playoffs with a guy named Todd Collins who hadn't taken a live snap since Truman fired MacArthur.

That Joe Gibbs and his staff were really something.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

pabrian: "The guy who REALLY didn't get a chance was Ramsey. He threw a 79 yd td to Lloyd in the 1st Q of the Bears game, a couple series later he's yanked."

I thought Ramsey through the prettiest pass I've ever seen.

Unfortunately he threw it exactly the same way whether the receiver was 5 or 50 yards downfield.

A couple times, I actually thought he was going to complete a pass to a receiver by drilling it through the DB's chest.

Denver felt the same way. We're much better off with Jason Campbell.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I see Andre Smith as a guy who's going to be too big and lacking in the agility department to play left tackle (at all), and likely right tackle in the NFL.

I don't think Oher has those problems, but he does need more coaching against speed rushers.

But can't miss tackles go high in the draft (even though they can, in fact, miss...but so can any other pick). That there are some questions about these two is the only reason we might have a shot at one with the 13th pick.

Finally, I don't think the difference between us making the playoffs or not comes down to having another pass rusher. I think the clear reason we went 2-6 last half of the season last year was because our O.L. broke down.

Those guys will all be a year older this year. For most of them, that's not a good thing. The sooner we make O.L. into a strength for the Skins, the sooner we are a legitimate powerhouse every season.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Andre Smith quoting former local Root Boy Slim:

Fat is where its at. Put a quarter in the juke and boogey til you puke.

Posted by: periculum | March 19, 2009 9:41 PM |

Great quote. Many of us have fond memories of the Root Man.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 21, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Gentleman & Lisa

JC is a fine semi-young QB... James Thras wouldn't be a 5th or 6th receiver on any team....ARE wouldn't be 2nd receiver on any team,...Kendall wouldn't start on any other team, nor would Jansen... Tell me again why this is JC's last year to prove himself?? How many 3rd and 7's were for 6.5 yd gain?? The kid threw 6 INT's... not too bad.... upgrade the OL and give me a #2 WR( via vet or Thomas/Kelly ) and you'll all be fans of "THE SOUP"!!!

CLEGG

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | March 21, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

I meant Ramsey over Brunell not over Campbell.

Samson151: Thanks for strengthening the vote for Campbell

4thFloor: @ Dallas 27-24, Giants 3rd in D, Skins 4th, Eags 5th. Perhaps it's a low scoring affair when the best D's go toe to toe regardless of the division?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

NFL | Multiple teams showing interest in C. Matthews
Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:28:26 -0700

Southern California LB Clay Matthews said he will visit the Washington Redskins and Miami Dolphins prior to his school's Pro Day. Matthews will also meet with the Atlanta Falcons and Cleveland Browns following his Pro Day workout.

Redskins | Grant to work out
Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:11:21 -0700

Bo Marchionte, of NFLDraftBible.com, reports the Washington Redskins will hold a private workout with Akron LB Kevin Grant April 3.

Posted by: skinfanman | March 21, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

WE WANT ANDRE SMITH! WE WANT ANDRE SMITH!

Maybe could get Oher or Britton a couple slots lower.

A lot of mocks have us taking Cushing. I don't know about this guy is he worth a 13. It's hard to tell when all 3 USC guys are going pro. Word is, Cushing has an 'insane' workout and supplement regimen, which is good, I think?

If we took Cushing would you be happy?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinfanman | March 21, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Yes because we need to get a DE or Sam with #13. Cushing could fit there. But the draft is still 5 weeks away, so it's still too early.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

I think we should be concerned if the Eagles get Boldin

Posted by: rickyroge | March 21, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

WE WANT ANDRE SMITH! WE WANT ANDRE SMITH!

Maybe could get Oher or Britton a couple slots lower.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:11 PM

Here's what Pat Kirwan wrote after talking with scouts from several teams:

"There's no question that offensive line coaches feel very comfortable with Eugene Monroe and Jason Smith at the top of the draft. Both prospects have created a sense of comfort for the coaches, convincing them that they have the talent, temperament and character to play early and play well. You would be surprised how many coaches aren’t that interested in high first-round picks. These guys have to play early, and too many of them just aren’t ready. Monroe and Smith have overcome that issue, but Andre Smith, Michael Oher and Eben Britton still have questions."

"Another trend is that there appears to be positive momentum among the group of pass rushers in the first round. In the last month, I keep hearing how much interest NFL people have with Everette Brown, Brian Orakpo, Aaron Maybin and even Michael Johnson. I think it’s fair to say that all four have moved up a few spots."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f5dc39&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

RI is it's own soverign nation....

Thanks to my bracketology skills I have been appointed Secretary of Dumbazzness. I'm so proud.

Posted by: will_ga | March 21, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

ifthethun:"Finally, I don't think the difference between us making the playoffs or not comes down to having another pass rusher. I think the clear reason we went 2-6 last half of the season last year was because our O.L. broke down."

The O-line broke down all right, but that's not something you can fix all that easily. The Skins gambled on the health of some players, and for a half season, they looked right.

But I'd argue that if you hoped to improve the Skins quickly, maybe take them a ways into the playoffs, you'd go for one of two areas. First, something to increase that abysmal pass rush -- could be Haynesworth, could be more adventurous schemes, could be an outside speed rusher, or all three. Second, you'd find somebody who does what Jason Campbell is dying for somebody to do: jump up and catch the ball in traffic.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

I think we should be concerned if the Eagles get Boldin

Posted by: rickyroge | March 21, 2009 12:15 PM

We should, but when was the last time that the Eagles did something that clever? (Cue TheCork -- "DeSean Jackson, the God of Receivers....")

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Thanks to my bracketology skills I have been appointed Secretary of Dumbazzness. I'm so proud.

Posted by: will_ga | March 21, 2009 12:23 PM

If you got this Cabinet position the only reason was because you overpaid your taxes, Dumbazz.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Now that I mentioned it, why does Talent Evaluator style himself Talent Evaluator?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 11:33 AM

I used to post as evaluator_of_weak_jokes, but people thought I had greater skills in evaluation and urged me to take the more general screen name. I couldn't say "no." It was thrust upon me.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

The O-line broke down all right, but that's not something you can fix all that easily. The Skins gambled on the health of some players, and for a half season, they looked right.

But I'd argue that if you hoped to improve the Skins quickly, maybe take them a ways into the playoffs, you'd go for one of two areas. First, something to increase that abysmal pass rush -- could be Haynesworth, could be more adventurous schemes, could be an outside speed rusher, or all three. Second, you'd find somebody who does what Jason Campbell is dying for somebody to do: jump up and catch the ball in traffic.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 12:25 PM
=========================================
What if your goal was to make the Skins into a perennial powerhouse again, and not just to plug in a player who might get you into the playoffs next year?

Then the fact that it's hard to fix the O.L quickly would mean it's that much more important to do it sooner, rather than later.

Who's to say all our 30+ offensive linemen don't break down even more dramatically, this year? People are counting on Chris Samuels coming back from his injuries. That's not a gimmee.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 12:41 PM | Report abuse

JLC, you just aren't credible anymore bro. You told us Haynesworth was impossible a few hours before he signed. You've let your dispute with Vinny poison your ability to make clear thinking, objective reports. It's time to find another beat.

Posted by: buryyourduke | March 21, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator posted some good info.

I hear you, but J Smith, Monroe, Orakpo gone, gone, gone

Brown, Maybin, Johnson most likely all gone.

that leaves A Smith, Oher, Britton, MAYBE Brown or Johnson

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

What if your goal was to make the Skins into a perennial powerhouse again, and not just to plug in a player who might get you into the playoffs next year?

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 12:41 PM

Isn't this the "Best Player Available" approach?

Don Banks had an interesting slant on this in his latest mock draft. His view was that with the Top 10 picks, you take best player available, and after that you meet needs. There could be some sense to that because the teams with the Top 10 picks are the worst in the league and have needs everywhere.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

I'm with ITTDGY go O-line

"JLC, you just aren't credible anymore bro. You told us Haynesworth was impossible a few hours before he signed. You've let your dispute with Vinny poison your ability to make clear thinking, objective reports. It's time to find another beat.

Posted by: buryyourduke"

I agree and many fans should take a long look at this too. I wana talk about the GAME not the FO

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Jake Plummer on Jay Cutler:

"He's a great quarterback, don't get me wrong," Plummer said about Cutler. "I'm not saying anything to disrespect him. I think he's a helluva player. But Jeff George was a helluva player."

Ouch! Jay Cutler = Jeff George.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"I tend to think they sign one pricey free agent (though not a Gross or Haynesworth - not that massive) and a few value guys(LB, DT, G), then try to draft a starting tackle and trade Carlos Rogers for a second-round pick to use on a defensive tackle or defensive end."-la confora late jan.

Let's see, wrong on Haney. Dockery more than a value guy, so wrong. LB is TBD. TRADE RODGERS, HORRIBLY WRONG!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

oh yeah and wrong on the value DT JLC

In review
wrong wrong wrong and TBD

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

Did I miss a Wrong?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

ifthe:"What if your goal was to make the Skins into a perennial powerhouse again, and not just to plug in a player who might get you into the playoffs next year?Then the fact that it's hard to fix the O.L quickly would mean it's that much more important to do it sooner, rather than later."

Then I think you'd release some vets outright and start trading others for draft choices. Then you'd wait for somebody on another team to go down in training camp, and shove one of your starters their way, for more choices (Miami with Jason Taylor). You'd let the fans know you were thinking long-term and that your coach and GM were going to be there at least three and probably five years without interference from the owner.

Then you'd thank the fans for their support and get ready for the howls, just in case you lost as often as you feared you would.

I thought Baltimore did about as good a job rebuilding their O-line as anybody. They drafted one first-day guy a year and took a gamble on a big tackle out of Maryland as a supplemental. The line played well last year. They did sign an older center but that's because he's just better than the young guy they've got in the pipeline.

We'll see how the Ravens do this year. They have a history of up-and-down years. Maybe this will break the pattern.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Pabrian -

I think JLC is still running CrystalBall 2.0 Sports Edition and hasn't upgraded to 3.0 yet; which is kinda crazy when 4.0 is gonna ship in April.

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

JakePlummer: "But Jeff George was a helluva player."

He really was. Brian Billick was still yearning for George's arm in Baltimore. And never got anybody who even approximated that guy as a passer.

Not to say George was ever a particularly good QB. Too one-dimensional. And no sooner would the ball hit his hands than he'd start drifting around, frustrating the heck out of his blockers, who were struggling to form an approximation of a pocket.

But he threw a beautiful deep pass. With his forefinger on the tip of the ball, so it settled in the receiver's hand with the nose ever so slightly pointed up.

Sorry, I'm rhapsodizing. The guy is living proof that there's a big difference between being a passer and being a QB.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 1:21 PM | Report abuse

Isn't this the "Best Player Available" approach?
...
Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 12:47 PM
============================================
No, it's almost the opposite. I'm saying recognize that 1) O.L. weakness is a weakness you can't afford to have, and 2) our O.L. weakness is caused by the fact that most of our O.L. is 30+...so it's only going to get worse.

Plus, there are extra penalties from having a weak O.L. that go beyond not scoring many points...injuries to your skill players, damaging your young QB's confidence, and such as.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 1:23 PM | Report abuse

"I used to post as evaluator_of_weak_jokes, but people thought I had greater skills in evaluation and urged me to take the more general screen name. I couldn't say "no." It was thrust upon me.Posted by: talent_evaluator |"

All hath been revealed.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 1:24 PM | Report abuse

thunderdont: "O.L. weakness is a weakness you can't afford to have, and 2) our O.L. weakness is caused by the fact that most of our O.L. is 30+...so it's only going to get worse"

Let's examine those assumptions.

Most teams have weaknesses in the O-line. Pittsburgh is built to run the ball, which is partly why their QBs get sacked so often (the other part is on the QBs). NE protects Brady with their lives, but count on the RBs to locate marginal holes. Atlanta looked perfect until the playoffs, when they suddenly forgot how to pass-block.

Teams frequently somehow manage to overcome their own O-line weaknesses to win Super Bowls. Like the Giants two years ago (as opposed to the year before and after, when they were merely mortal). The Skins came together to protect Todd Collins for a remarkable (if brief) run.

Maybe Pittsburgh and the Jints and NE win not because their O-lines are so much stronger than others, but because they're so good at minimizing their respective weaknesses.

Age is important, of course, but so's experience. And as so many have pointed out, offensive lines play as a unit, not as individuals. Smart, crafty, tough play often outperforms the young and physically gifted.

That's not always true on the D-line, or at running back, or wide receiver.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 21, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

My take on Jason Campbell: I love him.....he has a great arm, can scramble and has very good head on his shoulders. The poor guy has had to learn so many different offenses it's amazing he can function. He was on the ground a lot last season but never complained. Give him a good O line and WRs and he will excell. Cutler I simply CANNOT STAND!

I also loved Patrick Ramsey and feel like he was screwed by both Spurrier (who nearly got him killed) and Gibbs (who did not give him a chance).

What is the obsession on this blog with Andre Smith??? Can't for the life of me understand it - especially after seeing him run shirtless - why, oh why, did he not at least put a shirt on?

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

What is the obsession on this blog with Andre Smith??? Can't for the life of me understand it - especially after seeing him run shirtless - why, oh why, did he not at least put a shirt on?

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 1:46 PM

Wind drag. Wearing a shirt would have added at least .35 seconds to his 40 time.

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 21, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,

are the high passes constently to Moss from JC17 the result having so many different OCs?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I also loved Patrick Ramsey and feel like he was screwed by both Spurrier (who nearly got him killed) and Gibbs (who did not give him a chance).

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

So the whole offseason and mini camps and training camp then preseason for two seasons was not giving him a chance to show he is the Qb to take control?

I liked ramsey too. I was pulling for him too. So the whole offseason and mini camps and training camp then preseason for two seasons was not giving him a chance to show he is the Qb to take control? I disagree 100% that Gibbs ddi not give him a chance....For every play we see in a game...the coaches see him run it 1000's ...there is so much that goes into...Ramsey had a confidence probelm...Coaches do not like having a QB leader who is unsure of himself....I mean he may have come to the sideline many times like a deer caught in headlights for all you know...

If Gibbs is wrong for letting Ramsey go and not giving him a chance...Why is Ramsey a back up journey man who has not started for any one else since he left unless there was an injury just like here with GIbbs??????

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

What is the obsession on this blog with Andre Smith??? Can't for the life of me understand it - especially after seeing him run shirtless - why, oh why, did he not at least put a shirt on?

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 1:46 PM |
==========================================
He wanted to show off his moobs to the entire world, they'd been kept under wraps for too long.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 21, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

Wind drag. Wearing a shirt would have added at least .35 seconds to his 40 time.

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 21, 2009 1:52 PM

Shirt wouldn't have made a difference. Flopping would still have been an issue, now compounded by a fold of cotton. He needed proper support -- the bro or the mansierre.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

The fact everyone here blames the o line for Campbells mistakes is flat dumb...Example...one of the best pass rushing defenses last season were the Giants...well the last time we played them Campbell had greta pass prtection for 90% of the game....the probelm is Campbell holds onto the ball way too long...He can't pull the trigger.

We all know that Collins is NOT a great Qb with a great arm but let me ask you...why was Collins able to come in and all of the sudden the offense moved and scored year before last? Before Campbell got huirt the offense looked like last year...Sputters...Campbell comes back witha new system and new coach and the same old stuff...Sputters....Campbell has the physical tools....but he is just afaried to make a choice and fire the ball...you can't sit back there 4 seconds plus like he trys to do...i don't care what line you have.....

i see other QBs in the league incuding ROOKIEs...with bad lines or holes in their lines...But they don't seem to have a problem.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Ramsey sucked, he was never a starting QB in this league. And apparently not even a #2. Even compared to Ferotte he sucks. Ferotte, a 14 year VET, is like Johnny U compared to Ramsey.

Sage/Green/Ferotte all > Ramsey

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Ramsey looked credible b/c his compare and contrast was Shane Mathews and Danny Wuerfel...

Nuff said.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Sage/Green/Ferotte all > Ramsey

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM

Many, like Lisa, cling to the fiction that Spurrier ruined him and Gibbs never gave him a chance. If Spurrier "ruined him" then Gibbs shouldn't have given him a chance.

But, neither of these myths is grounded in reality. He couldn't find open receivers or, at least, throw the ball away. And he couldn't get out of the way of a charging lineman.

As for Gibbs, he made the guy the starter. Then he had a horrible training camp, compounded by fumbling and an interception in the opening game.

Just look at his career stats for seven years with three teams: 24 starts, 74.9 rating, 35 TDs, 30 INTs, and 28 fumbles. And this is Spurrier's fault?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

I loathe Spurrier but I agree TE...Ramsey just ain't an NFL player.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Spurrier but I agree TE...Ramsey just ain't an NFL player.

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 2:32 PM

Spurrier didn't even want Ramsey. Remember when he was holding out and they nearly traded him to Chicago?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Just look at his career stats for seven years with three teams: 24 starts, 74.9 rating, 35 TDs, 30 INTs, and 28 fumbles. And this is Spurrier's fault?

Posted by: talent_evaluator

Yes, this was Spurrier's fault...because Ramsey could have possibly been a good NFL QB if his coach (aka Spurrier) knew what the heck he was doing. The poor kid was on the ground all the time and lost his confidence - never regained it thus the 35 TDs, 30 INTs, and 28 fumbles.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey 4th, how is that UCLA pick looking?

Posted by: chrislarry | March 21, 2009 3:01 PM | Report abuse

the probelm is Campbell holds onto the ball way too long...He can't pull the trigger.


Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM

I see this written over and over again by a few people here, so I'm not picking on you leevi. But I think this criticism ignores the fact that no one is open a lot of times when JC17 is holding the ball. His next best alternative would be to immediately throw it in the stands like Brunnel used to do (and I hated that).

JC17 is holding the ball to make something happen... towards the end of last season, he actually started tucking it and runnnig and made some big 1st downs.

The O-line is the issue because they can't effecively block a 4 man "rush". This allows the secondary to stay glued to our very average receiving corps in deep coverage, for both seconds JC17 gets from his O-line to throw.

Hence, we get a lot of short passes because that's all there is.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree, Ramsey's record speaks for itself. I though he was going to be more, but it never materialized.

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 - I was about to post the same thing. O line sets it all up.

Yes, it is possible to survive some bad line play, but with superior O line play, the whole scheme just works better.

It also takes a lot of variables out of evaluating the skill positions when the line is right.


Lisa -

Spurrier certainly had a bad impact on Ramsey, but he's looked terrible everywhere he's gone. A change of scenery should have been enough for him to turn it around. It just wasn't there.

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

What is the obsession on this blog with Andre Smith??? Can't for the life of me understand it - especially after seeing him run shirtless - why, oh why, did he not at least put a shirt on?

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse
I don't care at all how hw looks in a 40 yd sprint, don't care at all about his man-boobs, don't care about his low level of 19 reps in the 225 lb press(he has very ong arms, longer than any other OT in the draft.) Long arms are a great advantage in blocking, but make it very difficult to press 225#.

Posted by: frediefritz | March 21, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

6-2 when Oline was healthy.
2-6 when health of Online became suspect.

I think the tape would show how often JC was under a constant pass rush. I think Dockery is going to be huge.

I also think that Zorn's WCO: game planning & play calling, along with the implementation of the offense & learning curve on everybody's behalf, has accelerated an abundance of Campbell criticism.

I firmly believe that if our young guns (11, 12, 86) step up & play, Campbell will continue to improve. I firmly believe that if the Oline cleans itself up, Campbell will improve. If/when the offense begins to eat it's heart out, than all of the JC17 haters can begin to eat crow.

IDK? We'll see?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Lisa,

are the high passes constently to Moss from JC17 the result having so many different OCs?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 1:58 PM

No 4th,

A 6-2 WR could probably make that catch.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

The poor kid was on the ground all the time and lost his confidence - never regained it thus the 35 TDs, 30 INTs, and 28 fumbles.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 21, 2009 2:59 PM

This is akin to blaming all your hardships on your parents. Makes sense when you're a kid, but once you're grown you're responsible for yourself -- not your parents, not your coach.

He was in the league seven years. Spurrier was his coach for two years. What kind of a QB loses his confidence and never regains it? A bad one.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Big Ben holds onto the ball for a long time, too, trying to make something happen.

Yeah, Ben and Campbell took a lot of sacks, but in the end, it worked out pretty well for Big Ben.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

I was just saying of the crappy QB's we had to sit through, Ramsey should have gotten more than 1/4 the season he got yanked.

He threw a pick, and he fumbled after being clotheslined which should have drawn a flag, and he threw A 79 YD TD.

At least 1/2 a game before yanking him, NOT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT, so settle down.

Jason Campbell has the potential to be a GREAT or ELITE QB, he is the BIGGEST QB we've ever had, and he moves well and stays cool

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I was just saying of the crappy QB's we had to sit through, Ramsey should have gotten more than 1/4 the season he got yanked.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 3:40 PM

He did get more. Gibbs didn't pull him because of one interception. He had the entire preseason as the starter and he looked terrible the whole time.

I thought Ramsey was done after Denver, but it looks like there's still some interest in him. Tennessee had him in as a possible replacement for Chris Simms as the third QB and New England brought him in for a look.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

No one told me UCLA would be playing Villanaova in Philly........

Now my bracket is poo poo...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

+++But I'm going to throw verbal bricks at anyone who's waking up now to whine about the deficit after they snoozed though 8 years of Bush-Cheney running it up to 11 trillion.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya +++

Got yer back. Tho I'd prefer politics be kept off here.

But since they're not, don't forget the Bushies were handed a SURPLUS in the treasury by the guy who got involved with the heavyset girl.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Now my bracket is poo poo...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 4:29 PM

How does your bracket look compared to President Obama's?

I'm hoping that the President will do a 32-Team mock draft in the next few weeks. Now I could get behind that.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

+++Reading, try it sometime,

Posted by: chrislarry | +++

can't My Kindle is busted.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

IMHO, there's a lengthy list of current and former skins players who didn't or haven't reach(ed) their potential due to the lack of stability in systems, coaches, etc since Snyderatto took the helm.

L. Arrington, for all his culpability, never reached his full potential in part due to the constantly shifting defensive schemes and coaches. I believe the same could be said for Ramsey to some extent (tho he's shown nothing to suggest starting-caliber potential anywhere) and to a greater degree, Campbell. I honestly think the "excuses" made for Campbell are totally legit. Sure, some QBs have that unique ability to come in and, right away, light it up under adverse conditions, but that's a rarity. I'm not saying Campbell WILL or even CAN be great, just that, given the constant changes in systems and coaches, and the frequently inadequate support @ O-line and WR, it's still too early to make a determination.

IMHO.

Oh, and even if Campbell DOES hold the ball too long, it least it shows courage and desire to make something happen, and i'd SO prefer that to, say, Shuler, who used to look like he was holding a hot potato as soon as there was a whiff of pressure. What a.... (meow..) And that dude was the #2 pick in the draft. Shocking. I remember the big debate btwn taking him or T. Dilfer, and to think that woulda been the better pick...guess we destined to be hosed picking a QB that yr regardless.

Posted by: hogmeister | March 21, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse


+++We should, but when was the last time that the Eagles did something that clever? (Cue TheCork -- "DeSean Jackson, the God of Receivers....")

Posted by: talent_evaluator+++

I've told you a million times, T_E, don't exaggerate. I mean, Jackson is pretty good, but he's no Devin Thomas.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

the probelm is Campbell holds onto the ball way too long...He can't pull the trigger.


Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 2:07 PM

I see this written over and over again by a few people here, so I'm not picking on you leevi. But I think this criticism ignores the fact that no one is open a lot of times when JC17 is holding the ball. His next best alternative would be to immediately throw it in the stands like Brunnel used to do (and I hated that).

JC17 is holding the ball to make something happen... towards the end of last season, he actually started tucking it and runnnig and made some big 1st downs.

The O-line is the issue because they can't effecively block a 4 man "rush". This allows the secondary to stay glued to our very average receiving corps in deep coverage, for both seconds JC17 gets from his O-line to throw.

Hence, we get a lot of short passes because that's all there is.


Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Funny how , Collins (I do beleive collins is not a very good QB either) was able to find the people who "were not open" after Campbell was hurt. I know that collins was in the system for a longer time...But you also must consider Collins did not take any reps with the starters etc etc...He was thrust in to playing and all of a sudden people were open and the offense was scoring...as soon as Campbell comes back...Brick wall...offense sputters...hell it's not rocket science. i mean the guy could not even dominate throwing with a killer running game early on...went that went away....BOOM

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Alan4, you have very good points but i see Qbs with worse lines or worse WRs and do better than Campbell..Hell rookies have come in and played better their first year with rookie head coaches better than Campbell ever has performed...i eman how many excuses are we going to give this guy....His career is half over ...when will he finally step up and be a QB?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

I've told you a million times, T_E, don't exaggerate. I mean, Jackson is pretty good, but he's no Devin Thomas.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 4:47 PM

Good point! There was only one talent like him in last year's draft, and we're lucky that we were picking ahead of Philly. Otherwise, we might have had to settle for a lineman.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

Man, ACCucks in the tourney. First round losers were Wake, Clemson, BC, Florida State. All four lost to lower seeded teams. Now Maryland in the second, leaving only Duke and UNC. What a wipe-out.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 21, 2009 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Hell rookies have come in and played better their first year with rookie head coaches better than Campbell ever has performed...i eman how many excuses are we going to give this guy....His career is half over ...when will he finally step up and be a QB?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 5:00 PM


Levi-

I think this is a false argument. What were those QB's asked to do? If you are referring to Atlanta - look at how well their O line played last year. They took a lot of pressure off the QB. Every team's circumstances are different.

Were you beating this drum when the Skins were 6-2 with 0 interceptions and had beaten Philly and Dallas on the road? I doubt it.

It takes a TEAM to win. Remember that not only did the O line crumble, but Portis was pretty badly injured and Moss was, at best, 80 percent? Teams were doubling Cooley because he was the only weapon we had left. And then there's the 11 guys who play D that couldn't finish the deal against teams like SF.

He proved that he can be a winner with this team last year. I think it is at least reasonable to say that the over-all team declined far worse than his play did during the slide. I think he deserves one more year to make his case.

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

JC17 is holding the ball to make something happen... towards the end of last season, he actually started tucking it and runnnig and made some big 1st downs.
Posted by: Alan4

Campbell answered a big ? by his INT% & tuck 'n run skills

Funny how , Collins (I do beleive collins is not a very good QB either) was able to find the people who "were not open" after Campbell was hurt. I know that collins was in the system for a longer time.
Posted by: leevi98

Collins did the job of the back-up, NO WAY is he beating out Campbell on any squad in the league. His passes are lobs and Campbell's are laser rockets. He is a GREAT back-up.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: leevi98

I think your way off base on Jason Campbell, say we give up on Campbell...Who is our QB???

If your cutting someone you have to replace them with someone better or potentially better

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

He proved that he can be a winner with this team last year. I think it is at least reasonable to say that the over-all team declined far worse than his play did during the slide. I think he deserves one more year to make his case.

Posted by: edvar (on Campbell)

SHOW YOUR RIGHT!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

It's my opinion based on my observation of his play. I'm not really sure how I would SHOW I'M RIGHT!

Are you asking me to compare his stats vs the teams stats? I'm not sure stats tell the whole story. What is the stat for having your O line slide, your star running back gimping, your #1 receiver at reduced capacity and your star TE getting doubled. Those combined make it tough for any QB. What is the stat for the advantage that gives the opposing D? I'm asking 'cause I don't know.

If you have a reasonable observation you'd like to add, feel free...

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal had good years, but both benefited from gunslinger QB's in learned systems, AND injuries to people ahead of them in the depth chart.

If Moss and Randle El were hurt, as Curtis and Brown were for Philly, Thomas would have had more catches.

Thomas had a better year than D.J. Hackett. #11 made a catch in 8 games, and ran for a score in 1. He had 3 for 26 against b'more. if he does that every game it's 48 for 416 which would be a fair contribution. If he breaks a few of those catches it could be a SOLID contri.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

SHOW YOUR RIGHT! is slang for, YOU ARE RIGHT! sorry bout dat

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

I love Campbell, I think he could be 1 of the Skins best all-time, it depends on Zorny now

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:45 PM | Report abuse

My bad.

I should have figured that out from your post before. and thanks.

I outta here.

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

leevi98

I think your way off base on Jason Campbell, say we give up on Campbell...Who is our QB???

If your cutting someone you have to replace them with someone better or potentially better

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

Five Players Who'd Make Great Redskins But--sadly-- Won't Get Drafted By The Team


1. Percy Harvin

2. Mohammed Mossiqoui

3. Knowshon Moreno

4. Jeremy Maclin

5. Pat White

And why are all the selectees offensive oriented? Moe feels that Zorn's great possible contribution might be the deciding to do what Gibbs flubbed by hiring Saunders: morphing the low-scoring, run happy Redskins into a pass the ball, go for the throat, spread offensive machine.

Moreno is a younger Portis with burst.

Harvin will be an all-rookie team member.

Anyone of the listed players would make a nice slot receiver, second back, punt returner in the mold of Hester, Bush, Sproles, Moss, Slaton, Cribbs-- and spread teams needs two speed guys to force a defense to make a choice.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 21, 2009 7:00 PM | Report abuse

'...Big Ben holds onto the ball for a long time, too, trying to make something happen....'

This works for Ben as his receiver group is average as a group, but way more dynamic--except Moss/Cooley--individually when things breakdown.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 21, 2009 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't count out Moreno, if the top 5 OT's, top 3 OLB, and top 3 DE's are gone, Moreno or a top 3 corner could become a value pick option.

or we would trade down

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

If that's the case pabrian, I'd much rather trade down. Moreno or a top 3 corner isn't a valuable pick relative to our needs at that spot.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | March 21, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

"Moreno is a younger Portis with burst."

I hope he has a burst. He ran 4.6 and 4.63 on Pro Day.

Portis ran a 4.15 in the Skins training camp in 2006.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

The draft has depth on the OL into round three. I'm getting the feeling that the FO thinks Bugles could mold a more raw talent from the third round into a above average starter after a couple of years.

Posted by: TWISI | March 21, 2009 12:06 AM |
After a long and distinguished career, Joe Bugel's best days are behind him. The game has passed him by. Gibbs knew it and got out, this dude should also. What I am seeing is that the Skins will make OL picks in the draft but will still have a OL that sucks pond scum in 2009. The receivers will not show any marked improvement over 2008, especially since Moss will be a year older, JC will continue to impersonate a statue behind the line of scrimmage, Portis will be a year older and a step slower and the team will struggle to reach 8-8, their record in 2008, despite significant upgrades in the defense.
Enter the Jaw. The Skins have above average NFL talent and below average NFL coaching. On defense, the DL coach was (a) retired and (b) had no NFL experience when he was hired last year. The DC, Greg Blache, does not do a good job of making in-game adjustments. Here is what Hog Heaven said about him during the Steeler's game: " Greg Blache got flat outcoached by Bruce Arians at halftime, but the Redskins defense is still way more talented than the Steelers offense is, regardless of who is at Quarterback." Unfortunately the same thing holds true for the offense. If there was one thing that made Joe Gibbs a HOF coach with 3 Super Bowl rings it was his ability to outcoach the other guy during the game. Whatever move they made, Gibbs would come up with a counter move that would checkmate them. Bill Walsh and Bill Belichick had their HOF QBs, Gibbs had his tactical genius.
Which brings us to Zorn. The guy is a neophyte when it comes to managing a game and making tactical moves. He is still learning to do this stuff as a head coach. When Gibbs was hired as the Skins HC, he already was a master from the years he spent as OC. So anyway, when the Jaw comes in, he has not been away from the game very long so he still knows how things work and who the best coaches are. He will bring in a new group of coaches that are good at what they do, which should result in an instantaneous upgrade for the Skins on both sides of the ball. They will probably find a veteran QB, similar to Kerry Collins, to replace JC, a QB who can run an offense and has a decent arm. They will also have to improve RB and WR.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 21, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

leevi98

I think your way off base on Jason Campbell, say we give up on Campbell...Who is our QB???

If your cutting someone you have to replace them with someone better or potentially better

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:49 PM | Report abuse

I never said anything about cutting him...i just said he holds the ball too long and seems to turn it ovr in the redzone....Kinda reminds me of Tony Banks....Anyway...I can still have an opion on the guy without having a replacment...i don't do that stuff I just a fan. The coaches and FO take care of all that.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Levi-

I think this is a false argument

Posted by: edvar | March 21, 2009 6:18 PM

Who said it was an argument LOL...i'm just stateing my opinion...Agree or not...It is what it is

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 8:48 PM | Report abuse

Funny how , Collins (I do beleive collins is not a very good QB either) was able to find the people who "were not open" after Campbell was hurt. I know that collins was in the system for a longer time.
Posted by: leevi98

Collins did the job of the back-up, NO WAY is he beating out Campbell on any squad in the league. His passes are lobs and Campbell's are laser rockets. He is a GREAT back-up.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Do you read?????? Most post clearly states I do not think Collins is a very good QB either and I do not see anywhere where I mentioned he should start over Campbell

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Portis ran a 4.15 in the Skins training camp in 2006.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 7:29 PM | Report

You're kidding. That can't be right. Darrell Green couldn't run that fast could he?

Posted by: will_ga | March 21, 2009 9:01 PM | Report abuse

DGreen only ran a 4.2 and he was the NFL's fastest man.........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 21, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

So anyway, when the Jaw comes in... They will probably find a veteran QB, similar to Kerry Collins, to replace JC, a QB who can run an offense and has a decent arm. They will also have to improve RB and WR.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 21, 2009 7:39 PM

Speaking of The Jaw, in Oct 08:

"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Bill Cowher recently gushed, probably literally, to his CBS audience. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws downfield. I'm very impressed with Jason Campbell's play. He's brought his team back when they've been down."

I think The Jaw would keep our talented quarterback right where he is, if he got the opportunity. Gibbs, Zorn, Madden... they all seem to think JC17's something special. I'm inclined to agree with them.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

You're kidding. That can't be right. Darrell Green couldn't run that fast could he?

Posted by: will_ga | March 21, 2009 9:01 PM

I was pretty astonished by that number, too. But that's what it says in wikipedia:

Portis demonstrated his speed during the 2006 Redskins training camp, running a 4.15 second 40-yard dash.

I didn't see times for Darrel Green in wiki, although we know he never lost the NFL Fastest Man competition. I think that dude just ran as fast as he had to. I wouldn't bet against Green in a race.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

At his combine, Landry ran a 4.35. Portis also ran a 4.35 at his combine. And prior to last season, Portis & Landry sprinted against each other. It was pretty close and definitely fast.

Not Darell Green fast, though.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

That 4.15 does seem suspect, but I credit that info to wiki. Even if that's a bit of an "Ashburn legend", the 4.35 still makes the point of my original post on the matter.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Check out the hit that JC17 takes at the 1:00 minute mark, in this highlight reel from week 16 against the Eagles. Absolutely takes a shot! Completes the pass though.

I can't remember who was #66? Fabini or Kendall?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Good clip, matthew. Good to see the type of thing we've been talking about here in action. If a picture is worth a thousand words, this video clip must be worth a few million.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

leevi - sorry if i misquoted you, but you're crummin' on JC, and it seems Redskins fans are the only people giving Campbell a bad review

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Bill Cowher recently gushed, probably literally, to his CBS audience. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws downfield. I'm very impressed with Jason Campbell's play. He's brought his team back when they've been down."
I think The Jaw would keep our talented quarterback right where he is, if he got the opportunity. Gibbs, Zorn, Madden... they all seem to think JC17's something special. I'm inclined to agree with them.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

So I take it Bill said this when they were 6 & 2....what about when they were 2 & 6?

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

So I take it Bill said this when they were 6 & 2....what about when they were 2 & 6?

Posted by: leevi98

You think that was Campbell's fault, he was 1 of the few guys that stayed healthy

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Solomon Wilcots endorses JC17 in this NFLN State of the Franchise segment. Solomon says, 'I like Jason Campbell as a quarterback & I think he just needs some consistency in the same system.... he has played under four offensive coordinators and four different systems in five years..."

Watch it if you haven't already..

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

leevi, I don't think Cowher is that shallow. He's not some knee-jerk Skins fan, he's an unbiased top notch former NFL coach who recognizes talent when he sees it.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Umm did anyone else see this? The skins are going to have a private workout at USC with Mark Sanchez next week. Could this mean that JC might be on the move? If they have a second private workout with Sanchez sometime in April, JC may well need to start packing his bags.

http://was.scout.com/a.z?s=71&p=2&c=849360

Posted by: TWISI | March 21, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

The fact everyone here blames the o line for Campbells mistakes is flat dumb...Example...one of the best pass rushing defenses last season were the Giants...well the last time we played them Campbell had greta pass prtection for 90% of the game....the probelm is Campbell holds onto the ball way too long...He can't pull the trigger.++++--LEEVI98

Excellent point. Who would know campbell's potential better, Jim Zorn or Leevi98? If Zorn didn't think campbell could bring it, and hence help him keep HIS job, he'd be trying to replace him. --THE CORK

+++We all know that Collins is NOT a great Qb with a great arm but let me ask you...why was Collins able to come in and all of the sudden the offense moved and scored year before last? Before Campbell got hurt the offense looked like last year...
--- Posted by: leevi98++++

That's easy. because he worked under the OC for 35 years ans knew his compklex syst6em bckwards and forwards.

As I've said, I'm not sold on Campbell. But NO QB is successful without a healthy RB or healthy receivers or a decent OLine. And in the back half of the season, Campbell was OH for THREE.

Not a quarterback alive could have turned THAT sow's ear into a silk purse last year.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

TWISI,

I think that visiting Mark Sanchez is a good play on behalf on Vinny C. Think about when #13 rolls around...

..If Sanchez is as good as everybody thinks he his & he falls to 13, Vinny could have a bargaining chip for a potential trade. But you gotta see players for yourself, sometimes, to know for sure what kind of leverage you've got, as well as, possible trade teams.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 21, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

That's easy. because he worked under the OC for 35 years ans knew his compklex syst6em bckwards and forwards.

As I've said, I'm not sold on Campbell. But NO QB is successful without a healthy RB or healthy receivers or a decent OLine. And in the back half of the season, Campbell was OH for THREE.

Not a quarterback alive could have turned THAT sow's ear into a silk purse last year.

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

Your bit late with that point Collins knowing the system...i had already stated that at the beginning of this conversation.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

matthewvickers that was my initial thought. However, I'm always concerned with this FO and their need for the splash. Hopefully the skins would make the right call and use such an opportunity to their advantage(i.e. getting more picks.)

Posted by: TWISI | March 21, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

Excellent point. Who would know campbell's potential better, Jim Zorn or Leevi98? If Zorn didn't think campbell could bring it, and hence help him keep HIS job, he'd be trying to replace him. --THE CORK

Posted by: TheCork | March 21, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

I never said I knew more than Coach Zorn. I stated my opinion about what i think Campbell's major issue is. If you disagree with my opinion that's your right.

If my opinion upsets you...I can't control that.

i'm not really directing this at you Cork...but many others on this blog create issues to argue about by twisting what I say or adding there own comments in question form and then using it as if that's what i said....

this blog cracks me up :)

Posted by: leevi98 | March 21, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

There's another QB thought to be a top 2 pick (Stafford-Ga). If playing up Sanchez means 2 QBs are off the board before the Skins pick at #13, that improves the odds we can fill a gaping hole on the O-line with someone--possibly someone with moobs--who can anchor the spot for 10 years.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

JASON CAMPBELL RULES I WOULDN'T TRADE HIM FOR ANY QB IN THE LEAGUE

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:22 PM | Report abuse

MOOBS! MOOBS! MOOBS! MOOBS!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:24 PM | Report abuse

leevi, we're all entitled to our opinions, of course, and I certainly find your opinions entertaining and occasionally informative.

But when you express an opinion that runs contrary to the preponderance of demonstrable evidence--for example, "JC17 holds the ball way too long" or "the Octomom is able to take care of all of her children and should have more"--there will likely be blowback.

If your posts cause a lot of blowback, that's probably what you're seeing.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 21, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

ALL-TIME YARDS FROM SCRIMMAGE PER GAME (MIN. 85 GAMES)
PLAYER (AVG.)
Jim Brown (125.52) +
LaDainian Tomlinson (125.46) *
Barry Sanders (118.89) +
Edgerrin James (115.55) *
Walter Payton (111.92) +
Clinton Portis (111.47) *

WOW. #6 all tiime! watch out for AP, but these stats are amazing.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 21, 2009 11:33 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like what some of the bloggers on here were saying:

CUTLER DRAMA WILL HIGHLIGHT LEAGUE MEETINGS
Posted by Mike Florio on March 21, 2009, 10:44 p.m.

Here’s another factor to keep in mind: Any team pondering the possibility of hiring Mike Shanahan in 2010 should be considering Jay Cutler in 2009. (For that reason alone, it makes sense that the Redskins would be interested.)

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 22, 2009 12:39 AM | Report abuse

"If Zorn didn't think campbell could bring it, and hence help him keep HIS job, he'd be trying to replace him. --THE CORK"

Would that the NFL were so simple. In real life, Zorn would keep any doubts about his QB to himself. Publically he'd be supportive. If the season went bad quickly, he might even resort to the dreaded 'vote of confidence'.

QBs in the NFL are a special problem. Most teams only have one that they consider a legit starter. Even when they have a talented backup with starting experience (like Pitt last season), they're careful to suppress any discussion of a QB change. Most of the QB coach's time is spent bolstering his guy's confidence.

Certainly no responsible Head Coach would share his real thoughts with the media. What's the advantage in that? When a coach does criticize a starting QB in public, it's purely manipulative, a motivational tool -- Bill Parcells is the expert at that. But his real thoughts? Bill's not going to share them at a press conference.

NFL teams are about as forthcoming with player evaluation information as AIG is with the specifics of its bonus plan.

It's a corporate world, gang, and corporations are the big BSers of the world.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 6:52 AM | Report abuse

It's a corporate world, gang, and corporations are the big BSers of the world.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 6:52 AM

Dude, you can't fool us. We live in Washington. We know who the big BSers are.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 7:40 AM | Report abuse

TheCork

'...I'm not sold on Campbell...'


We understand your sentiment and commiserate, but rememba: no car goes quickly in any direction if you keep changing drivers.

Let Campbell have this year to prove himself.

Let Zorn hand him the keys by saying, "Hey, I'm dissing Portis for a lil bit so you can get into a rythmn and be confident with the passing game earlier on in the season so we run the ball better in Dec./Jan. when it counts."

He'll have to play as its a contract year for him and the if the team is going to be successful, well, it faces a bunch of very good AFC West teams that can score and he must be ready to duel with Rivers, Cutler, Cassel atop of the usual contests in the east division.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 22, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

But when you express an opinion that runs contrary to the preponderance of demonstrable evidence--for example, "JC17 holds the ball way too long" or "the Octomom is able to take care of all of her children and should have more"--there will likely be blowback.

If your posts cause a lot of blowback, that's probably what you're seeing.

Posted by: Alan4 ******

??? Which JC are you watching? He absolutely holds the ball too long and Zorn has mentioned that a few times as an area he is trying to improve. He also doesn't throw the ball unless the WR is WIDE open which happens infrequently in the NFL.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 8:45 AM | Report abuse

isskinsfan

'...He absolutely holds the ball too long...'

And you have to wonder if that's Zorn's coaching or something he's always done. It seems like he's afriad of throing and INT and avoids using his rocket arm to put balls in places where his receiver has to fight to get it.

And if he's always done it, then it falls on St Joe for drafting the guy (and the pick given up along the way to get'em).

He might do better in a 3/4 wideout system where form the shot gun he only as 1 or 2 immediate options and goes to them quickly.

This is what we hope for.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 22, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse


Campbell learns his lesson as QB
By BOB PARASILITI
March 21, 2009
bobp@herald-mail.com
Jason Campbell feels like a student all over again.

The last four years have been like high school all over again as the Washington Redskins quarterback has quietly sat, studied and learned the National Football League under different coaches using different systems.

Now, like any good senior, the time has come for Campbell to graduate.

“It’s all about being a student of the game,” said Campbell while signing autographs at a public appearance at the PNC Longmeadow Regional Banking Center on Saturday. “You want to just grow as a quarterback. So far, each year, I have been learning the offense.”

http://www.herald-mail.com/?story_id=219351&cmd=displaystory

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

You would think that -- having learned so many systems from so many coaches -- Jason Campbell will himself be a great coach one day.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Here’s another factor to keep in mind: Any team pondering the possibility of hiring Mike Shanahan in 2010 should be considering Jay Cutler in 2009. (For that reason alone, it makes sense that the Redskins would be interested.)

Vinny and Mike are good friends. He will become a prime target in 2010 if Zorn is not here. Mike and Cutler want to work together. They have a better chance in DC than any other team in the NFL.

Posted by: rwjjamesjr | March 22, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"He also doesn't throw the ball unless the WR is WIDE open which happens infrequently in the NFL."

Can I ask you to possibly verify this criticism? Any verification or supporting evidence will do. Because it seems to me that if his two most frequently double-teamed receivers (Moss and Cooley) end up with a greater percentage of Campbell's receptions than Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin do of Kurt Warner, that your claim is patently false. Unless, of course, you're criticizing him for not 'tossing it up there' like Jake Delhomme or Tony Romo, which I won't deny. But something tells me you wouldn't be satisfied with watching your QB blow up for 5 INTs in a game once or twice per season or in the playoffs.

Posted by: psps23 | March 22, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Alan4:

Hold that thought. Let me check the salary-cap. I'll get back to you.

Posted by: glawrence007 | March 22, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 10:15 AM

Here where I live, you can buy liquor on Sunday after 12:00pm. Saved me many a football day.

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 22, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 10:15 AM

Hey, this is DC. You can buy illegal drugs 24/7 but legal ones only when the government deems it proper.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

"Dude, you can't fool us. We live in Washington. We know who the big BSers are.
Posted by: talent_evaluator"

MIght I suggest that the fact we live in Washington suggests that we DON'T know who the really big BSers are?

Or we'd live somewhere else?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

"What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?
Posted by: 4thFloor"

One in 6,135.

Well, you asked.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

"?? Which JC are you watching? He absolutely holds the ball too long and Zorn has mentioned that a few times as an area he is trying to improve. He also doesn't throw the ball unless the WR is WIDE open which happens infrequently in the NFL.Posted by: lsskinsfan"

Zorn wants him to pull the trigger a bit quicker, that's true. But he doesn't want him throwing to covered receivers.

THe middle ground is to find somebody who's open and throw it, rather than looking at all the receivers in turn before making the throw.
st

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

'...He absolutely holds the ball too long...'


And you have to wonder if that's Zorn's coaching or something he's always done. It seems like he's afriad of throing and INT and avoids using his rocket arm to put balls in places where his receiver has to fight to get it.********

I think under Gibbs regime, JC was instructed to be a game manager, not a game changer.


*******He also doesn't throw the ball unless the WR is WIDE open which happens infrequently in the NFL."

Can I ask you to possibly verify this criticism? Any verification or supporting evidence will do. Because it seems to me that if his two most frequently double-teamed receivers (Moss and Cooley) end up with a greater percentage of Campbell's receptions than Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin do of Kurt Warner, that your claim is patently false. Unless, of course, you're criticizing him for not 'tossing it up there' like Jake Delhomme or Tony Romo, which I won't deny. But something tells me you wouldn't be satisfied with watching your QB blow up for 5 INTs in a game once or twice per season or in the playoffs.

Posted by: psps23 *******

I don't have stats, as they don't publish that sort of thing, but my thought is JC doesn't "SEE" the field that well, therefore his twp main targets get thrown to more often, than taking a chance and throwing to another WR. Don't get me wrong, I really think the WR's on this team are well below what is needed, still he needs to break away from game managing, and start trying to be a differecen maker. IMHO

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

“I had the experience to adjust to the speed of the game, but it will be nice to be able to run one system for a while.

“People don’t under how it is sometimes. I’d love to be like Peyton (Manning) sometimes, but it’s a challenge. Those are the things I have to overcome to be the quarterback I want to be.”

-------------------------------

From the article I posted. Sounds alot like CP26 if you asked me........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

IMHO, receivers are supposed to get open and be where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there.

That left two guys all last year. After the line collapsed beginning with the Steelers game, there was not enough time to get it to them (especially because opposing defenses knew that Moss and Cooley were the only guys they needed to watch out for).

What do you complainers want: That JC should snap the ball to himself, block for himself, throw the ball, and then run downfield and catch his own pass?

He's Jason Campbell, not Jesus Christ.
~!

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Certainly no responsible Head Coach would share his real thoughts with the media. What's the advantage in that? When a coach does criticize a starting QB in public, it's purely manipulative, a motivational tool...

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 6:52 AM

Zorn is not like most coaches. He's very blunt :

Zorn cited Matt Hasselbeck, who had trouble making the adjustment when Zorn was quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks. Hasselbeck struggled so much that he temporarily lost his job to Trent Dilfer but has since been to three Pro Bowls.

"He was just wild and all over the place," Zorn said. "And we couldn't win."

He has criticized Campbell, but not much in 2008. The funny thing is Zorn threw 111 TDs and 141 INTs during his own career as QB. I happen to prefer a QB who throws more TDs than INTs. Unbiased professional observers like Madden & Cowher have nothing but good things to say about Campbell. Joe Gibbs, who showed a willingness to use the quick hook on PRamsey, spent a lot of time praising JC17's decision-making.

By the way, Big Ben is also been accused of holdig the ball too long, but when the rest of your team picks up their game it's called bravery.


But there's no reason for former coaches to lie. Madden, Cowher,

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

...meant to add Portis to the list of blunt talkers who have an opinion. Portis had no problem calling out his own O-line and his head coach last year. Nothing but praise for JC17, tho. Wonder why?

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

MIght I suggest that the fact we live in Washington suggests that we DON'T know who the really big BSers are?

Or we'd live somewhere else?

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 11:27 AM

Sure, you can suggest anything up here. But your statement that the big BSers are corporations shows that you don't have a clue who the big BSers are.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Sure, you can suggest anything up here. But your statement that the big BSers are corporations shows that you don't have a clue who the big BSers are.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:02 PM
============================================
Here, I'll fix that for Samson151:

The big BSers are corporations and the politicians who wh0re for them.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

What do you complainers want: That JC should snap the ball to himself, block for himself, throw the ball, and then run downfield and catch his own pass?

He's Jason Campbell, not Jesus Christ.
~!

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya********

I'd like him to continue to get better, and to take a few more chances downfield even if the WR isn't "Open". I'd live with a few more INT's as at least it would give the opposing D the thought he may actually throw it downfield.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

...take a few more chances downfield even if the WR isn't "Open". I'd live with a few more INT's as at least it would give the opposing D the thought he may actually throw it downfield.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:27 PM

QB, thy name is "Patrick Ramsey".

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

...take a few more chances downfield even if the WR isn't "Open". I'd live with a few more INT's as at least it would give the opposing D the thought he may actually throw it downfield.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:27 PM

QB, thy name is "Patrick Ramsey".

Posted by: Alan4 *****

Greta analogy! JC is Patrick Ramsey without the occasional downfield risk. Their both nice guys, strong arms, not particularly adept at reading defenses. Still very liakble people and Patrick is still making a nice living riding the pine in the NFL.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

The big BSers are corporations and the politicians who wh0re for them.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 12:06 PM

Right! Now with that clear insight you must live well outside Washington. Okinawa? Bali? Zanzibar?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

Still very liakble people and Patrick is still making a nice living riding the pine in the NFL.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:38 PM

This is the first time I've seen Ramsey described as likable. I remember him as a sniveling little whiner.

And, right now he's not riding anyone's pine but he did have recent workouts with Tennesse where he'd be competing with Young to be backup and with New England where he'd be the fourth guy, fighting for a job. He is said to be "considering his options."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Where did the myth of JC17 not being able to "read defenses" come from? Apparently, the people who watch game feels don't share that assessment. This is after last season, Zorn's criticisms:

“I was on him to stay in there mentally, and he did. He threw the ball accurately, read [the defense] well. Jason had a great effort on some of the runs that he made. Smart runs. Competitive runs. It kept us in the ball game. He made some very good decisions, very good throws. I’m very proud of what he did.”

These are some of the exact same comments Joe Gibbs made about Campbell.

Here's what Zorn want's JC17 to work on:

"His footwork was poor when I got here last [offseason]," Zorn said. "It got a lot better and I think everybody would agree with that. It’s going to get even better this offseason. There are things I’m going to ask him to do, to work on."
He added: "I want to him to continue playing lower, being able to have great rhythm at the top of the drop. When he plants that foot, coming forward and letting the ball go, I want to improve that. We’ll work on drills that enhance that."

I don't think coach Gibbs liked Ramsey's decision-making.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 12:50 PM | Report abuse

What do you complainers want: That JC should snap the ball to himself, block for himself, throw the ball, and then run downfield and catch his own pass?

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 11:50 AM |

Based on reading RI over the past 14 months that is the expectation. And based on the play of the line and the WRs in the last half of the season he may do a better job of it.

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 22, 2009 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Alan4--

Nice work finding and posting that stuff. You've got to think that a guy who can go as long as he did without throwing an interception must have some skills in reading defenses.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

+++..If Sanchez is as good as everybody thinks he his & he falls to 13, Vinny could have a bargaining chip for a potential trade. But you gotta see players for yourself, sometimes, to know for sure what kind of leverage you've got, as well as, possible trade teams.

Posted by: matthewvickers+++

I agree. AND for the price of a hotel and a plane ticket you put the Fear in any team below you who wants Sanchez that you are taking him. Thus they are more prone to give up more in a trade if he falls to 13.

As for evaluating a player first hand, don't forget that Vinny evaluated three receivers last year who are wearing the Purple and Mauve now. Two of them showed up out of shape and the third couldn't work an alarm clock.

I honestly believe it takes great psychological skills as well as the ability to judge physical talent when it comes to taking a player.

What worries me about Andre Smith is: Properly motivated this guy could be a sensational tackle, but if the $$$ he gets goes to his paunch and his manboobs, the drafting team might end up with a 400 pound doorstop when camp opens.

I hope at least one member of the player evaluation squad at Redskin Park is a sports shrink.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Your bit late with that point Collins knowing the system...i had already stated that at the beginning of this conversation.

Posted by: leevi98

Sorry 'bout that. I don't read every post, and missed that.

Still, my main point of disagreement is that you or anyone shouldn't judge Campbell's second half of the seasonas if the first half didn't exist, or that al other elements were similar..

first half: Healthy line. healthy RB, relatively healthy receivers. Result 6-2 and impressive stats by #17.

Second half, Battered, injured line. Injured receivers. Injured, ineffective Portis. Campbell's stats, much less impressive.

I would also argue campbell suffered from unimaginative play design and calling by Zorn. The jury is definitely out on JZ, too, because that was adversely effected by injuries, too..

Like I said--as well as others, undoubtedly--the jury is out still on JC. When campbell is ineffective behind a solid line with a running game and quality receivers, then I'm convinced he is NOT the answer.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

I hope at least one member of the player evaluation squad at Redskin Park is a sports shrink.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:05 PM

They probably won't let a sports shrink within five miles of the park, for fear that the shrink might make some professionally informed observations about the guys who are running the place.

I thought the story on Davis was that the Redskins hadn't scouted him much. Didn't have him in for a visit, didn't talk to his agent before the draft. Davis was shocked when the 'Skins called.

Anyway, are you still buying the alarm clock story? Do you think they're going to tell the press "Fred Davis was late because he had three amateur hotties in his room and he still owed one of them a good time?" Come on, Cork, when's the last time you were this easily thrown off the scent?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

I love how critical these EXPERTS are of Jason Campbell, who is the best QB that we've had in 10 years. But when you ask for some sort of proof for their NEGATIVE opinions. They start to cry "they don't have stats for this or that...I'm entitled to my opinion. wahwahwah

He holds the ball too long??? How the F do you know??? How about giving him a POSSESION RECEIVER! Or the same system 2 years in a row! You would rather him throw INT's all over the place.

People who understand the game know your QB doesn't have to put up CRAZY stats to WIN.

Get a clue Campbell HATERS, if you don't like this kid you SUCK as a fan, and I TOO AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINION

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

+++DeSean Jackson and Eddie Royal had good years, but both benefited from gunslinger QB's in learned systems, AND injuries to people ahead of them in the depth chart.

If Moss and Randle El were hurt, as Curtis and Brown were for Philly, Thomas would have had more catches.+++

Posted by: pabrian2003++++

Actually, they had GREAT rookie years. Now then, as for your second point. All THOMAS had to do to get the opportunity Royal and Jackson had was TO BEAT OUT JAMES THRASH!!

Thomas could NOT beat out James Thrash. And I didn't see Jackson's butt hitting the bench when Philly got healthy.

ANOTHER thing. Jackson had those catches DESPITE injuries to other key Philly players, which meant opponents could focus more on the rookie.

+++Thomas had 3 for 26 against b'more. if he does that every game it's 48 for 416 which would be a fair contribution.+++

I don't expect a top pick to average 3 for 26. Another point that should be made is HE DID NOT CATCH THREE PASSES for a rip-roaring 26 yards in every game.

My thoughts on Thomas was he showed up immature and unprepared. Kid has physical gifts, and there's no reason why, if he applies himself, he can't become a terrific receiver.

But as the top Redskins pick last year, he was a bust. LAST YEAR.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

"still he needs to break away from game managing, and start trying to be a differecen maker. IMHO"

Maybe. I will agree on one thing: somewhere, somebody needs to step up because this offense was clearly not working in the second half of the season.

My opinion? It's easier to upgrade from below average WRs to adequate-good WRs, and it's easier to upgrade from an average offensive line to a good offensive line than it is to upgrade from a smart and efficient QB to a brilliant and perennial all-pro QB. Searching for the next Brady or Manning and giving up on anything less is almost an exercise in futility.

Posted by: psps23 | March 22, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

+++It's a corporate world, gang, and corporations are the big BSers of the world.

Posted by: Samson151+++

I think you will enjoy "Duplicity" as much as I did. My primary recommendation--do NOT get a Bladder Buster soft drink, because if you leave the theater during the movie to take a leak, you may well lose the thread.

Tony Gilroy, who wrote all three Bourne movies and wrote and directed "Michael Clayton" is no slouch at complex plotting. And since the topic is corporate espionage, I suspect you'll particularly enjoy the flick.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Well then CORK

Why don't you go buy a DeSean Jackson jersey and roll around in it for a while.

Are you an EAGLES fan or a REDSKIN fan.

by the end of the season Thomas did beat out Thrash CHECK the FILM

Go root for the eagles you fair weather cry baby hater

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Right! Now with that clear insight you must live well outside Washington. Okinawa? Bali? Zanzibar?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:39 PM
===========================================
I've been living in Ohio since January, 2006...so pretty much what you are suggesting.

Prior to that, NYC, New Haven, and DC. That would cover most of my life.

Now did you have a point you would like to make? Because from where I'm sitting, you are the one being naive.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

+++TheCork

'...I'm not sold on Campbell...'


We understand your sentiment and commiserate, but rememba: no car goes quickly in any direction if you keep changing drivers.+++--MistaMoe+++

I see your point, if not your Metaphor. Actually, wouldn't a car go quickly in "any direction" despite changing drivers or was Newton wrong?

Oh well. When I say I'm "not sold" on Campbell, that may sound more negative than it should. I just mean I think he has a ways to go.

But I sure did like him when the rest of the team as healthy last year. I DO believe that if either Thomas or Kelly has a breakout year, Cooley, Moss and Portis stay healthy, the line holds up, and Zorn expands the offense, he could well return to first half of the season level, and better.

That's a good news/bad news situation.

The GOOD: Campbell establishes himself as QB of the future.

The BAD: Whose future? It would cost the skins a fortune to sign him later rather than sooner.

Posted by: TheCork | March 22, 2009 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Thomas was only a BUST to impatient, ignorant fans.

Intelligent patient people give a player more than 1 season to prove themselves, and if you read his scouting report...

he's immature

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

We could franchise Campbell next year if we need too, so don't look into the future for MORE NEGATIVITY

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

so you think moving up in the depth chart because of injury DOESN'T amke a difference in stats???

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

All THOMAS had to do to get the opportunity Royal and Jackson had was TO BEAT OUT JAMES THRASH!!
the cork

this woudn't have moved him up to #1 in the depth chart, as Jackson did for philly.

do you understand depth charts and injuries

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

than it is to upgrade from a smart and efficient QB to a brilliant and perennial all-pro QB. Searching for the next Brady or Manning and giving up on anything less is almost an exercise in futility.

Posted by: psps23 *******

I never said perennial all-pro. In fact, I agreed with the Patrick Ramsey analogy. I don't think even the most ardent JC supporters would like Patrick as their QB. That's who JC plays like, without the risk taking. All those who say you don't need a great QB to win also make the point that JC isn't all that, even if they are unaware they are doing just that.
We can all have opinions that differ, the difference is the amount of class displayed (or lack of class) during the discussion.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

yes, like classless negative comments based only on opinion. And, unreal expectations on individual players.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Right! Now with that clear insight you must live well outside Washington. Okinawa? Bali? Zanzibar?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 12:39 PM
===========================================
I've been living in Ohio since January, 2006...so pretty much what you are suggesting.

Prior to that, NYC, New Haven, and DC. That would cover most of my life.

Now did you have a point you would like to make? Because from where I'm sitting, you are the one being naive.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 1:57 PM

Yes, I made my point. I agreed with you. I said "Right!" I said you had clear insight. So, does agreeing with you make me naive?

I also had a conjecture -- that you live outside DC. You confirmed that my conjecture was correct.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Thomas was only a BUST to impatient, ignorant fans.

Intelligent patient people give a player more than 1 season to prove themselves, and if you read his scouting report...

he's immature

Posted by: pabrian2003 ****

struck a nerve eh, pabrian? maybe you should stick to your opinions and lose the name calling?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Campbell has improved every season, keep in mind, if you have the 15th best QB, 17 teams envy you.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

lol i did get a little riled up, sorrys where sorrys are due

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

no problem pabrian, we all get riled up about OUR team, just in different ways.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

talent_evaluator: "Sure, you can suggest anything up here. But your statement that the big BSers are corporations shows that you don't have a clue who the big BSers are."

Okay, now you've gone too far. I'm going to change my name to 'BS_Evaluator" and then everybody will HAVE to pay attention to me.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

So, does agreeing with you make me naive?
=========================================
Given the six degrees of separation in this thread of argument with regards to who the real BSers are, I say: Maybe?
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

It is so easy at the end of the season to say 1 guy is better than another because of stats. Or, to say we should have picked this guy in stead of that guy. There isn't a team in the league who can't identify a player they missed in the draft.

Just as it's easy to watch Campbell on TV and say, "he's holding it too long" without being able to see the rest of the field like he can.

How about belief, faith, hope, and positivity to start a new season

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

How about belief, faith, hope, and positivity to start a new season

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 2:28 PM
===========================================
Or else, let's get Dik Shuttle on here and start telling Leigh Torrence stories.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

This from PFT:

BIG CHANGES CONSIDERED FOR NFL OFFSEASON?
Posted by Aaron Wilson on March 22, 2009, 11:44 a.m.
Due to the economic crisis, the unresolved future of the collective bargaining agreement and other reasons, the NFL could be pondering major changes to its offseason schedule, according to Mike Holbrook of Pro Football Weekly.

Citing “multiple inside sources,” Holbrook writes that league insiders would like to move the NFL draft to late February with the free agent signing period to be held late in March.

“They need to get the draft put ahead of free agency,” a league source said.

Of course, that would accelerate the rest of the scouting process, including the combine and all-star games like the Senior Bowl.

And it would decrease teams’ reliance on big free agency spending in another potential cost-cutting measure for a league that has been cutting jobs and expenes.

Such a change would also probably create a lull in the NFL from May to June.

According to a top executive, that’s exactly what NFL employees need.

“Some way, somehow, the NFL needs to find a way to give the league more of a break,” the unnamed executive said. ”It’s like a treadmill that keeps getting faster and faster. They need to have a bigger window between the draft and free agency, regardless of which one comes first.”

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 22, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Moving the draft up would be good for so many reasons: 1) less reliance on the combine and more on the actual body of work from a prospect's college career, 2)gives teams a chance to fill their holes in the draft and supplement with FA and therefore more quality FAs available (instead of the other way around...you listening Vinny?), 3)gives a chance to ALL teams to make a run at the big money FAs without running into the issue of tampering (not that most teams care anyway), and 4) gives the FAs current team more time to work out an extention. I'm sure there are plenty more, but those are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head (and only somewhat coherently since I just woke up from a nap). I hope the NFL REEEEALLY explores this and makes it happen because it would really be beneficial to all parties involved in my opinion (even though it would suck for fans who would have to go through a lull in the offseason action from about late April to training camp).

Posted by: brownwood26 | March 22, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"In fact, I agreed with the Patrick Ramsey analogy."

Patrick Ramsey? Patrick Ramsey was a career 55.7% passer with the Redskins, who's highest passer rating as a starter was 75.8. He was a stand in the pocket, no mobility QB playing in a downfield passing system with no similarities to the west coast offense currently installed. Ramsey purely relied on his arm strength to attempt to be successful, Campbell succeeds despite arguably using his arm strength too infrequently. There are nearly zero similarities between Ramsey and Campbell, other than the fact they both have strong arms.

Attempting to compare Patrick Ramsey to Jason Cambpell would be like attempting to compare Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis. You'd have better luck comparing Campbell to Brunell than you would comparing Campbell to Ramsey.

Posted by: psps23 | March 22, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Tell me again why this is JC's last year to prove himself??

Posted by: michael_b_clegg | March 21, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse


Ummmm maybe because his contract is up with the Redskins after this season.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

compare ramsay to brunell and thank the fact there both gone. Compare Campbell to Williams, Rypien, Jurgesen, Kilmer, Theismann, Johnson

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is the best QB we've had in 10 years, so..........he has to prove himself every year like every other QB.

he's under contract and we'll sign him next year, after he DOMINATES this year


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

You'd have better luck comparing Campbell to Brunell than you would comparing Campbell to Ramsey.

Posted by: psps23 | March 22, 2009 2:58 PM
==========================================
George Herbert Allen is to Barack Obama as Joe Gibbs is to

1) Aretha Franklin
2) Madonna
3) Britney Spears
4) Richard Nixon
5) Celine Dion
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

the saddest sight is seeing someone pay for season tickets this year. JC will be the same JC he has been for the last 5 years.
Joe Montana outside of the red zone and Hannah Montana inside the red zone.
Save your money, stay home, tivo the game, watch it in 30 minutes and spend quality time with your family.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 22, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is the best QB we've had in 10 years, so..........he has to prove himself every year like every other QB.

he's under contract and we'll sign him next year, after he DOMINATES this year


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ummm best QB in 10 years.. And we scored less points than the 0-16 Lions??

I would say the best QB we had in 10 years is the one Danny didnt want.. Trent Green.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 22, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya--You're on fire on a slow March Sunday. Keep it up.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

in a surprise move vinny cerato coherses dan marino out oof retirement with a record 200 million dollar contract!!!


!!! LOL !!!

Posted by: all_this_bs | March 22, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

thought u guys might be interested

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11534011

Posted by: jasonma1 | March 22, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

in a surprise move vinny cerato coherses dan marino out oof retirement with a record 200 million dollar contract!!!


!!! LOL !!!

Posted by: all_this_bs | March 22, 2009 4:32 PM | Report abuse

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You forgot the part about Vinny giving Parcells ALL of the Skins 09 Draft picks to sign Marino. bigger LOL

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 22, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya--You're on fire on a slow March Sunday. Keep it up.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 4:26 PM
======================================
Thank you!

But I believe I omitted 6) Al Yankovic.

Ifthethunderdontgetya Entreprises, LLC™ regrets the error.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 22, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is the best QB we've had in 10 years, so..........he has to prove himself every year like every other QB.

he's under contract and we'll sign him next year, after he DOMINATES this year


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

That's not saying much. In fact Qb has been a mojor probelm with the Skins for over 20 years. We have not had a LONG STANDING good Qb since JT....

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Is this the dullest first weekend of "March Madness" ever? So far we've got all 1, 2, 3, or 4 seeds in the sweet sixteen except for a single 5 and a 12. And in the last three games, the favored team is winning. March Madness or March Blandness? Go, Sienna!

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Te - it really does suck - especially, since, in a two minute period of time, my alma mater (Western Kentucky) and my son's school - (U of Texas) - were eliminated in last second defeats...grrrr...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 22, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

Te - it really does suck - especially, since, in a two minute period of time, my alma mater (Western Kentucky) and my son's school - (U of Texas) - were eliminated in last second defeats...grrrr...

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 22, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
whoa houston ..what are the odds?? they say life is 50-50 so, go play the lottery.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 22, 2009 6:11 PM | Report abuse

so true!

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 22, 2009 6:24 PM | Report abuse

ifthethunderdontgetya--You're on fire on a slow March Sunday. Keep it up.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

That's because thunderdont is blogging in a contract year. Once his pockets are straight, he'll put on 40 lbs. and post only knock-knock jokes.

Posted by: SMACK1 | March 22, 2009 6:56 PM | Report abuse

I would say the best QB we had in 10 years is the one Danny didnt want.. Trent Green.
Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

You make a good point with Green. Although, your point becomes 11 years old in 3......2......

Campbell the best in QB in 9 and 3/4 years

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Campbell is the best QB we've had in 10 years, so..........he has to prove himself every year like every other QB.

he's under contract and we'll sign him next year, after he DOMINATES this year
Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

That's not saying much. In fact Qb has been a mojor probelm with the Skins for over 20 years. We have not had a LONG STANDING good Qb since JT....
Posted by: leevi98

Exactly why we should be giving tremendous fan support to Jason Campbell

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

14 mock drafts

8 - OT (Smith 6, Oher 2)
4 - DE (Maybin 2, Jackson 1, Ayers 1)
2 - OLB (Cushing)

Smith, Oher, Jackson, Ayers are all SEC players

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

my alma mater (Western Kentucky) and my son's school - (U of Texas) - were eliminated in last second defeats

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 22, 2009 6:07 PM

Here to agree with you! As a Duke alum I can say that UT should have been eliminated before the half. I hate it when they give pretenders like UT false hope.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 8:08 PM | Report abuse

So far we've got all 1, 2, 3, or 4 seeds in the sweet sixteen except for a single 5 and a 12.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 6:01 PM

And that's just how it ended: four first seeds, four second seeds, four third seeds, two fourth seeds, one fifth seed, and one 12th seed. Maybe the Committee really knew what they were doing in seeding the tourney, but BORING.

At least, BORING in the first week. Next two weeks should be pretty exciting with closely matched teams and all the Cinderellas sitting at home with their pumpkins.

As the fairy godmother said, "Be home by midnight, Cinderella, or your tampon will turn into a pumpkin."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | March 22, 2009 8:16 PM | Report abuse

I never said perennial all-pro. In fact, I agreed with the Patrick Ramsey analogy. I don't think even the most ardent JC supporters would like Patrick as their QB. That's who JC plays like, without the risk taking.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 2:08 PM

You didn't *agree* with the Patrick Ramsey analogy, you originated it. You said you want a QB who slings it downfield regardless of whether someone is open or not, and I suggested the QB you're asking for is Patick Ramsey.

Me? I'll take a smart QB like JC17 who reads the defense, takes what's there, and doesn't make too many careless mistakes. That's how you win when your O-line is weak, your receiving corps is suspect, but your defense is stout. So again, we have Gibbs, Zorn, Cowher, and Madden on one side... lsskinsfan, leevi98, and antonchigurh on the other.

I happen to side with the NFL coaches in their high esteem for JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

Even though the Skins have upgraded with AH and Dock and who knows what will happen in the draft, they may not have upgraded at all in terms of where they are in the Division:

1. The Giants have had a good off season so far, shoring up their defense with Canty and others. If Burress can beat the concealed weapon rap and turn over a new leaf and Umenyiora comes back from being injured, the Giants will be better than last year.
2. Dallas off-loading TO will improve team chemistry immensely. Even without TO they have a lot of talent.
3. Philly has a ton of draft picks. They off-loaded vets like Dawkins and Shephard, but they have a knack for getting rid of old guys who still have value right before they collapse.
4. The Skins have upgraded but they will not have the element of surprise they had in 2008 when they went 6-2 for the first eight games.

I was reminded of this apparent paradox while watching a sping training game between the Yankees and TB. The Yankees had a stimulus package of their own in the off season, spending over $400 million on FA's. But TB improved a lot also without spending any $$$. They have David Price, a #1 draft pick and hotshot pitcher up from the minors who is just as good as if not better than CC Sabathia, one of the Yankees' high priced acquisitions. Price shut the Yankees down in the game today. So in spite of the Yankee's off season FA gorging, they will probably be in a dog fight with the Red Sox for 2nd place in the Divison, with the distinct possibility of spending another post season on the sidelines staring them in the face.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 22, 2009 8:34 PM | Report abuse

You didn't *agree* with the Patrick Ramsey analogy, you originated it. You said you want a QB who slings it downfield regardless of whether someone is open or not, **

Alan, Alan, Alan, you don't read the posts very well do you?

I never said regardless of whether someone is open or not. I did say to take some chances as most defenses don't allow a WR in the NFL to be wide open.
You can watch through rose-colored glasses all you want, I choose to be critical of the most important player on the offensive side of the ball.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

BTW,

The coaches you mention Alan, which one of them has gone out of their way to criticize ANY starting QB in the NFL?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

So again, we have Gibbs, Zorn, Cowher, and Madden on one side... lsskinsfan, leevi98, and antonchigurh on the other.

I happen to side with the NFL coaches in their high esteem for JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 8:28 PM |

Don't be so quick to count Gibbs in the JC camp. He did go out of his way to draft the guy, but then he held back putting JC in when Brunnell had clearly broken down and anything short of Patrick Ramsey would have been an improvement. After JC's first season as a starter was over, Gibbs indicated that the QB job would be open for competition in the upcoming pre season, not prexactly an endorsement. As for Madden and Cowher, they work for the networks that broadcast NFL games. It is not in their or the network's best interest to be entirely candid about players. Saying that they had their doubts about JC isn't going to amp Nielsen ratings for Skins games.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 22, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

I never said regardless of whether someone is open or not.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 8:43 PM

Response 1:

I'd like him to continue to get better, and to take a few more chances downfield even if the WR isn't "Open". I'd live with a few more INT's as at least it would give the opposing D the thought he may actually throw it downfield.


Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 12:27 PM

Yes, you did.

The coaches you mention Alan, which one of them has gone out of their way to criticize ANY starting QB in the NFL?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 8:46 PM

Response #2:

Jim Zorn

Zorn cited Matt Hasselbeck, who had trouble making the adjustment when Zorn was quarterbacks coach with the Seattle Seahawks. Hasselbeck struggled so much that he temporarily lost his job to Trent Dilfer but has since been to three Pro Bowls.
"He was just wild and all over the place," Zorn said. "And we couldn't win."

I'm not going to do a thorough search, but I'm sure can find more if you search for yourself.

In the future, if you're going to deny you said something, it probably should be something one can't just scroll up the screen to disprove you on.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:02 PM | Report abuse

What's the toughest division?

AFC East v. NFC East

By team stars:

AFC EAST

Bills- T.O.
Pats- Brady, et al
Fins- Pennington
Jets- (does this team really have a star?)

NFC EAST

Skins- Prince Albert, et al
Iggles- McNabb
Jints- Eli, et al
'Boys- Romo/Barber?


Moe still takes the NFC East as the league's beast.

Moe thinks skins' fans should think twice about the AFC West as a League of Unextra-ordinary Stiffs as each team features a dynamic passing game (Okay, except Dah Ray-Dahs) and some good backs: L Johnson/D McFadden/Sproles-Tomlinson.

But the return of Brady is a frightening aspect as the last game he lost was the Super Bowl--by a lucky catch or two.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 22, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

AntonChigurh, you know Gibbs loved his veteran QBs. In Gibbs' entire career, what QB came up from the draft and played for him for an extended period? Only 1: Mark Rypien. He spent 2 years on injured reserve, and later Gibbs benched him for fumbling. Gibbs always showed a lot more loyalty to his older, veteran QBs (even when their performance tailed off like JR and MB) than his younger QBs (like Ryp or PRamsey). But for some reason, he stuck with JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

JR = JT = Joe Theismann

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:17 PM | Report abuse

Some Days ago, I asked, "Well, if the 13th pick is to be a ot or slb or de, what's the 3rd rounder?"

Perhaps it should be a corner as even with signing Hall, the Skins have nothing behind him, Rogers, and a declining Smoot.

Given the trend in going with 3 and 4 wideout sets, perhaps an additional corner is in order. Here is the top 10, cut-n-pasted for your review. I like Victor Harris for the skins as he's also a special teamer.

1. Jenkins, Malcolm: Ohio State

2. Smith, Alphonso: Wake Forest

3. Butler, Darius: Connecticut

4. Moore, D.J.: Vanderbilt

5. Davis, Vontae: Illinois

6. Allen, Asher: Georgia

7. Francies, Coye: San Jose State

8. Byrd, Jairus: Oregon

9. Barnes, Kevin: Maryland

10. Harris, Victor: Virginia Tech

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 22, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

So again, we have Gibbs, Zorn, Cowher, and Madden on one side... lsskinsfan, leevi98, and antonchigurh on the other.

I happen to side with the NFL coaches in their high esteem for JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 8:28 PM |

HEY...Don't bring me into YOUR argument over wether campbell is the QB of the future or not...

I stated my opinion yesterday...If you do not agree with my opinion...That's fine...your right...your opinion...but I'm not On here BLASTING you because I don't agree with your opinion so don't blast me....Plus I'm not even in the discussion so why mentioning my name in your beef.

If my opinion upsets you...that's your problem.
It's pretty simple...Does Campbell choke most times in the redzone? YES...does he hold on to the ball too long and take a lot of sacks ? YES...

those are facts...if Campbell can change this... then great...He has all the tools but has not shown he can actually get it done yet.....Of course Gibbs liked him...he looked great in college and had a good background and most importantly for Gibbs...he is a Christian..the other comments by madden and bill were made during the 6 & 2 start.

A 6 and 2 start with close games that could have been lost are great. But I can name a zillion QBs who have looked good throughout a 6 close game stretch..

now show me he can do it a full year and I'm on board...but until he shows us...the jury is still out on what many on here claim "Elite" QB.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

Jason Campbell is not a smart man
Obama will be a great president
The Orioles will finish ahead of the Yankees
This will be Vinny's last year with the Skins.
Sean Taylor = B+


Talk amongst yourselves, I'm out.

Posted by: isnadd | March 22, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

One other note...What are Madden and Bill? They are commentators for NFL TV...they talk good about everybody...especially when they are on a hot streak and winning.....What is Gibbs? He was Campbells head coach who drafted him...what do you expect his opinion to be while he is still his coach? He drafted him...whats he gonna say while he is still his coach? "Gee...I'm not sure about Campbell, I think I made a mistake? LOL NO ..instead...he would say..."Jason..what can ya say about him...He sure fought his guts out there today" LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Bottom Line is ALAN4...I never said Campbell was a bad QB. I was giving my opinion on what Campbells issues are....I just don't think it's all the O lines fought...my opinion....ya can't change it...so it is what it is...just like your opinion...so don't blast people because they have an opinion...It's a blog my friend.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm sorry leevi, did I misrepresent your opinion? Your opinion doesn't upset me in the least (as baffling as I find it), and I hope I didn't offend you or misrepresent your perspective. I merely pointed out that you're one of the people who share the same opinion as the person I was discussing the issue with. However, I will refrain from using your opinions and ideas (although they were duly credited to you, I might add) in my future posts, if that's your wish.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:35 PM | Report abuse

So again, we have Gibbs, Zorn, Cowher, and Madden on one side... lsskinsfan, leevi98, and antonchigurh on the other.

I happen to side with the NFL coaches in their high esteem for JC17.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 8:28 PM |

Don't be so quick to count Gibbs in the JC camp. He did go out of his way to draft the guy, but then he held back putting JC in when Brunnell had clearly broken down and anything short of Patrick Ramsey would have been an improvement. After JC's first season as a starter was over, Gibbs indicated that the QB job would be open for competition in the upcoming pre season, not prexactly an endorsement. As for Madden and Cowher, they work for the networks that broadcast NFL games. It is not in their or the network's best interest to be entirely candid about players. Saying that they had their doubts about JC isn't going to amp Nielsen ratings for Skins games.


Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 22, 2009 8:53 PM | Report abuse

AntonChigurh,

Sometimes ya just can't convince Homers who see nothing what they want to see and believe...Nice post by the way...good points.

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 9:36 PM | Report abuse

Name calling leevi? I didn't blast you at all, I just said you shared an opinion--your reponse to AntonChigurh proves it's true. Why'd you get so hot just because I said it?

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

Alan4,

it's all good....i enjoy reading your posts...We just don't agree when it comes to Campbell...I do not see and elite QB yet.....Hoping he turns the corner but he has not yet...now with that said.....

Why has the Redskins NOt offered him and ext. on his contract?

Probably because the Jury is still out on the kid....He has not shown he can take hold be the man for the future.....Thta's why he is going into his last ciontract year with this team....

Posted by: leevi98 | March 22, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 10:15 AM
--------------------------
You can get liquor in VA ABC stores anytime after 1 PM on Sundays...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 22, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

I think it's because Dan Snyder is banking on an uncapped year when JC's contract comes up. And lord knows, he's going to need it. Snyder's not the kind of guy who wants to go through "rebuilding", and any QB who doesn't have the last name Brady or Manning will absolutely represent rebuilding.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

In the future, if you're going to deny you said something, it probably should be something one can't just scroll up the screen to disprove you on.


Posted by: Alan4 *****

I suppose Alan, you have nothing better than to spend hours online researching trivia. Good for you. I meant Wide open as in not many NFL WR's are wide open. Taking a few more chances down field would not bother me. I'd actually like to see JC's strength utilized more. You also pick Zorn critiquing his pupil. Gibbs rarely castigated anyone, let alone starting QB's. The others may have said a few things, but it doesan't mean they don't hold the QB's in high regard. The NFL is a business, and as such, those emplyed by it tend to criticize very softly and carefully. Some of those you mention may be coaching one of the QB's they dare not call out now.

A bigger question, Alan, is why are you so enamored with JC? He is mediocre. Wouldn't you want more from that position as a fan of the team?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

"Citing “multiple inside sources,”"

The guys in Cell Block D...

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

And leave it to the Steelers to find Tomlin...makes me sick how they seem to do everything right.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 19, 2009 8:27 AM |

Them replacing Tomlin isn't the big deal you make it out to be. The team he inherited had just won the Super Bowl and was built by Cowher. With minor changes it won another SB two years later in 2008. It was sort of like Seifert taking the juggernaut that Walsh had built and taking another victory lap around the track with it.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 22, 2009 10:03 PM | Report abuse

antonchigurh:"But TB improved a lot also without spending any $$$. They have David Price, a #1 draft pick and hotshot pitcher up from the minors who is just as good as if not better than CC Sabathia, one of the Yankees' high priced acquisitions. Price shut the Yankees down in the game today. So in spite of the Yankee's off season FA gorging, they will probably be in a dog fight with the Red Sox for 2nd place in the Divison, with the distinct possibility of spending another post season on the sidelines staring them in the face."

Don't ya think it's a tad early to be rating David Price over Sabathia? I mean, this isn't football we're talking about (where bloggers continually rate untested fifth round draftees over nine year veterans). This is baseball, where you actually have to, I dunno, strike people out.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 22, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

anton, Not sure if you've heard Spagnuolo left the Giants you might want to consider this in your 'Giants are better' scenario. See Derrick Ward of earth wind and fire too.

You've spun Dawkins leaving into a positive. Amazing anti-Skin rhetoric.

Dallas is better w/o TO is speculative too

The common thread appears to be anti-redskin

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 10:18 PM | Report abuse

I suppose Alan, you have nothing better than to spend hours online researching trivia. Good for you...

A bigger question, Alan, is why are you so enamored with JC? He is mediocre. Wouldn't you want more from that position as a fan of the team?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | March 22, 2009 10:00 PM

Sorry if the facts contradict ya, my friend, but attacking the messanger doesn't change the facts. If you must know, it didn't take hours, I just had to search your name to find your previous comment. Less than a minute.

We've gone round and round on the second question, so I won't waste much effort answering it. But you can ask yourself what would happen if we *raise* our O-line and WR corps to the level of mediocrity? Because right now, they're below average. So if JC has reached "mediocrity" as you put it, he's already ahead of his underperforming and oft-injured teammates.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 22, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe, jenkins and davis will def be gone, probably half of these other guys, trim the list to potential 3rd rounders

you've got 1st and 2nd rounders mixed in with your CB prospect list

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

It's pretty simple...Does Campbell choke most times in the redzone? YES...does he hold on to the ball too long and take a lot of sacks ? YES...

posted by leevii

Pure opinion that is anti-campbell and anti-redskin. You are entitled to be anti-redskin with your opinion.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 10:29 PM | Report abuse

Why has the Redskins NOt offered him and ext. on his contract?

Probably because the Jury is still out on the kid....He has not shown he can take hold be the man for the future.....Thta's why he is going into his last ciontract year with this team....

Posted by: leevi98

Because they had 'bigger fish to fry', and becuase they are waiting for the CBA to expire (cap free year), and because they want to pay him a fair amount not too much or too little, and because they know they can franchise him if needed.

There's 4 pro-redskin reasons off the top of my head

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

anton, Not sure if you've heard Spagnuolo left the Giants you might want to consider this in your 'Giants are better' scenario. See Derrick Ward of earth wind and fire too.

You've spun Dawkins leaving into a positive. Amazing anti-Skin rhetoric.

Dallas is better w/o TO is speculative too

The common thread appears to be anti-redskin

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 10:18 PM |

Not so. Just being realistic. I am a Yankees' fan and am excited about their FA acquisitions just as I am excited about AH and other Skins' FAs. But I am also a realist and recognize that the Rays will have a stud pitcher this season that they did not have last season so relatively speaking us Yankee fans might have to suffer through another barren post season. Just because I don't slavishly parrot the pro everything Skins hype that shows up in this blog doesn't mean I don't support the team as much as any other fan does, especially the paranoid ones that are on witch hunts to burn supposed heretics at the stake.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 22, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

anton,

I draw my opinion from the games, I'm sure you do too. JLC is rarely hypeing a pro-skin attitude, more like anti-dinnyVanny.

My opinion is JC is our best chance at success and the best chance we've had in 10 years, since green signed with the rams feb 11th '99....it is really 10 years.

Maybe it's time for the fans to give some blind faith in the kid, he's cool, and broke the 3,000 psYd plateau, and didn't miss a single snap that I recall.

I thought the big question was can he protect the ball and he answered that one in a big way. He broke his own rushing record as well and is learnig when to take off. Consider for a moment how difficult it is to be an NFL QB.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 11:20 PM | Report abuse

Instead of predicting disaster and being able to say, "I knew it, I told you so." Let's start the flippin' bandwagon a rollin'.

Old School Redskin Bandwagon Rally Cry OSRBRC

Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbour?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 11:24 PM | Report abuse

Terry Bradshaw's comments on the Skins and JC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just got back from the Richmond Forum at the Landmark Theatre in Richmond, VA. Tonight's speakers were Terry Bradshaw and Howie Long.

There was a Q&A session near the end of the program. An audience member asked Bradshaw what it will take to get the Redskins back to the Super Bowl. While Bradshaw didn't answer the question directly he did provide a few comments about the state of the Skins. Here are the cliff notes...

Said he is concerned about the team's starting quarterback, though he really liked the kid coming out of Auburn.

Said the team is set at the RB position.

Said that the team needs some help on the OL. Howie chimed in with the fact that he thinks Skins had the oldest starting OL last season.

Said last year's team started strong at 6-2 and fizzled down the stretch, and that's not a sign of a good team.

I found Bradshaw's comments about JC concerning partly because it was the 1st thing he mentioned about the Skins. Bradshaw acts like a clown on TV but he is a 4 time Super Bowl winner and 2 time Super Bowl MVP and is a good judge of the QB position. Thoughts from folks?

Other interesting comments from the Q&A session...

When asked if Bill Cowher will return to coaching, both Bradshaw and Long said definitely. Bradshaw said he is surprised Cowher hasn't returned already.

When asked about a Michael Vick return to football, both Bradshaw and Long said they think he will definitely be reinstated. Long said he thinks 12-14 teams will be interested in Vick, though they don't want to leak that publicly because Vick is still a major hot topic.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- morpheusmeyers; March-21st-2009 at 11:29 PM

Posted by: leevi98 | March 23, 2009 12:11 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it's time for the fans to give some blind faith in the kid, he's cool, and broke the 3,000 psYd plateau, and didn't miss a single snap that I recall.

I thought the big question was can he protect the ball and he answered that one in a big way. He broke his own rushing record as well and is learnig when to take off. Consider for a moment how difficult it is to be an NFL QB.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 22, 2009 11:20 PM |

I hope, as I am sure you do as well, that Jason can take the team to the next level in 2009. That he can lead them to come-from-behind scores late in the game when they need it. The types of things that demonstrate he is an elite level QB. It won't be easy but we'll all be pulling for him. He is a nice young man, one of the "good guy" type role models on the team who deserves all the success that may come his way.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 23, 2009 12:41 AM | Report abuse

JLC and JR continue to be regarded as hacks and as far from being REDSKINS Insiders........especially when ESPN starts making fun of you....

See:
"Not sure what has gotten into LaCanfora. This is close as he's ever come to praising the Redskins' front office."

Posted by: goosedude | March 23, 2009 1:29 AM | Report abuse

What is the probability of starting a movement to sale liqour on Sunday?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 22, 2009 10:15 AM
--------------------------
You can get liquor in VA ABC stores anytime after 1 PM on Sundays...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 22, 2009 9:49 PM

I guess I need to ditch th DM and go to the V, huh?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 23, 2009 2:07 AM | Report abuse

Before you all throw JC under the bus, I seem to recall a clip Mr Ron Jaworski taking a look at Jason Campbell a few years back and really liking what he saw. Zorn's influence seems to have really helped him (see games 1 through 6 last year).

I believe. Wait and see.

If we don't draft OL with #13, all bets are off.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | March 23, 2009 3:02 AM | Report abuse

++++Anyway, are you still buying the alarm clock story? Do you think they're going to tell the press "Fred Davis was late because he had three amateur hotties in his room and he still owed one of them a good time?" Come on, Cork, when's the last time you were this easily thrown off the scent?

Posted by: talent_evaluator ++++

Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not bloodhound.

I'm reminded of the scene in Bull durham when Nuke has time for a quicky... Professional athletes need to be aware of...oh who cares..

Posted by: TheCork | March 23, 2009 3:09 AM | Report abuse

+++Them replacing Tomlin isn't the big deal you make it out to be. The team he inherited had just won the Super Bowl and was built by Cowher. With minor changes it won another SB two years later in 2008. It was sort of like Seifert taking the juggernaut that Walsh had built and taking another victory lap around the track with it.

Posted by: AntonChigurh+++


That kind of nonsense qualifies you to work for Vinny Cerrato.

Tomlin's young, inexperienced, and got a job many on the team thought belonged to assistant coaches already on hand, not an outsider. Most coaches in that situation lose the team, not guide it to a Superbowl two years later.

Posted by: TheCork | March 23, 2009 3:21 AM | Report abuse

"Them replacing Tomlin isn't the big deal you make it out to be. The team he inherited had just won the Super Bowl and was built by Cowher. With minor changes it won another SB two years later in 2008. It was sort of like Seifert taking the juggernaut that Walsh had built and taking another victory lap around the track with it. Posted by: AntonChigurh"
"That kind of nonsense qualifies you to work for Vinny Cerrato. Tomlin's young, inexperienced, and got a job many on the team thought belonged to assistant coaches already on hand, not an outsider. Most coaches in that situation lose the team, not guide it to a Superbowl two years later. Posted by: TheCork"

Weird because I think you both have a point. This year's title team was in fact built mostly by Cowher. It's not quite as direct a line as Gruden from Dungy, but Cowher did put together this squad.

And Tomlin did accomplish something special in assuming leadership with Cowher sitting in a TV booth ever Sunday, looking over his shoulder.

But the guy who is responsible for both these titles -- not wholly but more than any other single individual -- is Ben Roethlisberger.

Sure, he's streaky, and takes too many sacks, and occasionally you want to throttle him for throwing to the wrong guy.

But in his own eccentric, technically flawed way, he should be mentioned more often along with Manning and Brady as the league's best.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 7:02 AM | Report abuse

From the Denver Post

Broncomaniacs are panicking with the mistaken impression Cutler's 17-20 record in Denver somehow qualifies him as a franchise quarterback to be retained at any cost. And

Yeah 17-20 is a sign of a great QB.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 23, 2009 7:10 AM | Report abuse

"But in his own eccentric, technically flawed way, he should be mentioned more often along with Manning and Brady as the league's best."

The Steelers won the 1st one with Ben, in spite of him. Put Peyton or Brady on the Steelers and I think you'd think differently. There is a reason Brady and Peyton are on another level, their numbers are just that much better than everyone else. Make no mistake about it, Ben is a good QB, but he wins Championships because of Dick LeBeau and that defense.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 7:31 AM | Report abuse

yoderlay: "Ben is a good QB, but he wins Championships because of Dick LeBeau and that defense.Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who"

Au contraire, mon ami, as the frogs put it.

They win games because of the defense. They won those two SuperBowls because their of their QB.

Watch those two games again. Maybe Manning and Brady would have done the same thing. But Ben did it, and when it counted most.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 23, 2009 7:49 AM | Report abuse

"They won those two SuperBowls because their of their QB."

2006 vs. Seattle

9/21 123 YDS 5.9 AVG 0 TD 2 INT

Against the Cards he put together a heck of a drive, but without that insane TD run from James Harrison, he doesn't even have the chance.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 8:04 AM | Report abuse

pabian

'....MistaMoe, jenkins and davis will def be gone, probably half of these other guys, trim the list to potential 3rd rounders...'

I cut-n-pasted this list as I honestly believe the front office will decide to take a big time corner with the thirteenth pick (maybe Jenkins) as I feel they need to be solid three deep at the position.

Bloggas may want to discuss cb options--'cuz the team could really use on extra.

This is Moe's interpretation of the skins' war room thinking:

They believe in Heyer and have Jansen as insurance--why draft a rt?

They feel Rob Jackson/Chris Wilson/Alex Buzbee are players who need game time--why draft a de/slb?

You look at the mix of high-powered AFC West offenses and the usual mix of NFC East beasts, and you think, "Hey, we need three corners to deal with three/four wide out sets, and Smoot/Tyron ain't hitting it.

"Plus, if we find a ringer, we let Smoot/Rogers go next winter and don't miss a beat."

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 8:25 AM | Report abuse

goosedude,

Your abilities to read sarcasm are amazing.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Moe,

I put noting by this teams "brain" trust.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

pabian

(cornerback point conclusion)

I hate to ramble on, but look at the skins corner depth chart:

Hall
Rogers
Smoot
Tyron

An offensive coordinator will look at that list, spread the field, and throw the ball to whomever Smoot is covering as the 3rd corner and see plays get made.

If either Rogers/Hall go down, the skins face throwing teams with the like of the small Justin Tyron getting tried on by anyone with a big wide out.

The skins would do well to take a strong/elite corner with the 13th pick and draft for need--o-line/slb/wlb--with the 3rd round pick.

The bloggas will hew and hate and cry, but when you look at the depth situation as Moe does, you see the point in making the pick at 13 a cb.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 23, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Good weekend for JGRacing, finishing 1, and 2 at Bristol...Kyle Busch had a good day on Saturday as well.

te has been speculating that he thinks the team will trade a #1 next year for a #1 this year, and I'm somewhat coming around on that, however only if they are able to trade back in the first. Lets say they trade their #13 for Phillys #21 and a third, and with #21 they select Tyson Jackson. If someone in the 26-27-28 range wants to flip a #1 this year for a #1 next year along with a 4th, then I'm all for it. So in a sense you could potentially end up with Tyson Jackson, and Phil Loadholt...I'd take that....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

"...trade a #1 next year for a #1 this year..."

I'm completely against this, only for the mere fact that next year's 1st round is going to be stacked. I want at least one pick in the first round and wouldn't mind trading up to get another.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I wish the team could find a player or a mold of player who could play a hybrid CB/OLB spot, basically a super coverage LB. Someone who could come in as a reliever at LB and a 4th CB spot. Sadly no player like that ever existed.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

I am with Yoder, we have heard the rumor that the college kids are holding off till next draft because of the CBA. The more 1st round picks we can get for next year the better. I would even be more inclined to trading our 1st rounder this season for a 1st next year and a 2nd this year.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 23, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"I wish the team could find a player or a mold of player who could play a hybrid CB/OLB spot, basically a super coverage LB. Someone who could come in as a reliever at LB and a 4th CB spot. Sadly no player like that ever existed."

Enter Taylor Mays, safety from USC. Big enough to play LB and fast enough in coverage. He's just one of many reasons I don't want to trade next year's 1st rounder.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

yod, I can respect that, although I think the chances of drafting another S are slim, but who knows.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 23, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

"yod, I can respect that, although I think the chances of drafting another S are slim, but who knows....."

There's talent everywhere in next year's first round. Mays was just an example for what Alex was talking about...he's not even the best safety that will probably come out (Eric Berry). I just think it would be foolish to not have a 1st round pick next year. If anything, I'm hoping they make some moves to get multiple picks.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 23, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Beep beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 23, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

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