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What Portis Said, Day 2

Dan Steinberg's D.C. Sports Bog has a thorough account of Clinton Portis's comments today. Highlights include:

"I didn't speak for nobody else, I'm not the voice of the team, I'm not the voice of reason. I spoke for myself."
"We're not gonna sever ties. You know, I'm a Washington Redskin. You know, I love Mr. Snyder, Mr. Snyder love me, that's my man. You know, he kept me around, him and Vinny. Coach got an appreciation from me. I think yesterday it was just aggravation, losing four games, everybody want to win."
"I'm gonna speak my mind, so it's gonna cause trouble every now and then."

Again, much more on the Bog ...

By Jon DeNunzio  |  December 10, 2008; 4:18 PM ET
 
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Comments

Zorn said that, in his mind, "I shouldn't have to seek that out." He added that he felt Portis had some legitimate concerns and "confusion" but believes the issues have been resolved.

He is just not getting it. I really starting to turn on this guy.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

We're going to put 50 on the Bengalis.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 4:14 PM

Points or Yards?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 10, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Thongs

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:21 PM | Report abuse

We're going to put 50 on the Bengalis.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 4:14 PM

I'd settle for 20.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

On whether he feels less stressed today: "Any time you get something off your chest that you need to get off your chest, any man right here can vouch, when you get it off your chest, you feel less stressed. I feel less stressed, I feel good, I'm smiling. Hey. Beers on me, if y'all feel like it."

lol

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

jm, read this:

On if he needed Coach Zorn to say that he appreciates him and he should not have been benched:

“I didn’t need him to say that. We talked about what our conversation should’ve been. We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”

Both parties at fault, and hopefully it doesn't happen again...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Did Clinton Portis graduate from the University of Miami?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 4:25 PM | Report abuse

B that what Zorn should have said that they both should have handled things better and left it at that. No he has to go on and say players need to come to him as if he has really done something as a coach.

JM2220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

basically they, zorny and portis, did nothing but add more fuel to this fire.

please raise your hand if you have switched positions on this issue from yesterday. neither one of them said anything to appease (sp/wrong word) the other side.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I just think Zorn is feeling himself more that he should.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

Did Clinton Portis graduate from the University of Miami?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 4:25 PM

Ha! Good one. Do any of their football players graduate?

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

jm, its over....it seems like they've tried to put it behind them...I'm not going to drag this out Leigh Torrence style.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

PANTIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

no he left after his junior year and apparently before he could take "How to speak the English language 101" but perhaps enrolled in Emmitt Smith's "I make up words that don't exist" in his post leave undergraduate studies early education.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

"You got to be joking with that statement. If he is old and lead the lead in rushing most of the season what does that say about all the other runners?

JM220"

Sorry...I meant to say that when Portis GETS over the hill, not that he is already. Although in my defense, he already is not the same RB he was in Denver and in his second year here.

It used to be that when Clinton Portis got behind the first wave of defenders, he could take it to the house. That's simply not true anymore.

So he has in fact lost a step. Hopefully the front office has already begun to plan to replace him, because that's how today's NFL works. To be successful, you can't wait for your players to drop off -- you gotta be proactive.

Posted by: jcabana | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

I think Emmit Smif actually went back to school and gradulated....

Posted by: dlhaze1 | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

We're going to put 50 on the Bengalis.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 4:14 PM

Points or Yards?

Posted by: Predator48 | December 10, 2008 4:21 PM

October 23, 2005.

It's going to be one of those type of games.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Did Clinton Portis graduate from the University of Miami?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 4:25 PM

I don't think he graduated as he played three years and started as a real freshman.

Posted by: Redcoat | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Move over jm220 Jasno-axe-to-grind ... jm220 Zorn-axe-to-grind moving in ... forgive and forget? NEVER! Rather, rinse, repeat? Over one billion bottles of shampoo can't be wrong!

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

jm, its over....it seems like they've tried to put it behind them...I'm not going to drag this out Leigh Torrence style.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg

You right B no need to turn into that.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

jm, its over....it seems like they've tried to put it behind them...I'm not going to drag this out Leigh Torrence style.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

that's because you never see anything as a problem, its ok that an entire round of pass catchers hasn't combined for 20 catches, its ok that we ignored our lines for a decade almost now, its ok its ok its ok just wait and see, this franchise with the brilliant Vinny and the sage Danny will bring us through in the end.....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

Deal, are you serious?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

"We're going to put 50 on the Bengalis."

If Portis has a big game out of all this all it means is we move down the field, stall at the 30 kick a few, miss a few and maybe get one in the endzone. Portis gets 126 yards , Skins win 16-13.

Being mathematically eliminated on final week we finish 8-8.

Posted by: TheCultureOfLosing | December 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Report abuse

Would this even be a issue if portis wasn't a black man ?

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | December 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

By the way, 4-12, great job of tipping this week!

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 4:18 PM

She earned it.

Posted by: 4-12 | December 10, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

speaking of panties...btw...i know atleast one respected reg. up here doesn't like kim kardeshian but DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she's aight!!!! that butt deserves legendary status. only other i can think of is j-lo. and raise your hands if you've seen THE VIDEO...i haven't. just wondering what you guys thought of it. i am a gentleman of high society and do not partake in such activity.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"Zorn has not adjusted his system or his stubbornness and has mishandled his players, that doesn't mean anybody else would have this team with 11 wins right now, but doesn't get him off the hook either.

Posted by: zjfr2"

Fair enough. I'd have to agree with you. Zorn has looked a bit in over his head at times; hopefully he'll be a better game manager in his second year. I personally think he is wearing too many hats. Is Zorn calling plays, or is Stump Mitchell?

Posted by: jcabana | December 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

and its ok that the star runner called out the coach and that the coach calls out the player and that neither side ever admits to doing anything wrong or that they should have handled things better, that's not burying the hatchet, that's ignoring it, putting it in the corner for now until something else happens.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

yeah, zj, either that, or you're just a drama queen....I'm going with you're a drama queen, because you want to take EVERYTHING and make it more than it is.

Portis said:

"I didn’t need him to say that. We talked about what our conversation should’ve been. We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”

But despite this, you're gonna beat that dead horse.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

What Portis Said, Day 2
Dan Steinberg's D.C. Sports Bog has a thorough account...
Again, much more on the Bog ...

By Jon DeNunzio | December 10, 2008; 4:18 PM ET

Was that the Sports Bog or a Zora Neal Hurston novel.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 10, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

dcsween I really shouldn't even respond to your silly statement but I will. I been very supportive of Zorn so your axe statement has no legs. Once again Zorn needs to learn not to call players out in the media and feel as if he doesn't have to approach his players. If one of my children are upset and I can tell they are upset or know something I did up set them I not going say oh they have to approach me. That is just childish and a person that needs to check their ego. As I stated before if he keeps calling out players in public this thing will turn ugly.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Jim Rome to Crennel and Zorn......"hip hip you're fired!"

lol

no wonder CP is all smiles at practice.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:39 PM | Report abuse

I love this crap. We needed drama on this team. At least we will get some media hype this week.

Posted by: TheJury | December 10, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

greg, i see you and jm220 arguing about the same thing as yesterday. and i see others doing the same. this siht aint over. it's FAR from over. they're both acting EXACTLY the same way they have acted before. no one has changed their tone. unless i'm completely missing a quote from both of them.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

This thing is not over until at least after this weekend. If the offense performs, it will buy next week off, until they play Philly. Philly is REALLY going to make or break the situation. If this offense turns in a Dallas/Pitt/NYG/Baltimore type performance against Philadelphia, you can bet your bottom dollar that this pops back up in full force -- with Dan Snyder and Vinny possibly entering the situation.

Posted by: psps23 | December 10, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

"or that they should have handled things better"

Here you go drama...


"I didn’t need him to say that. We talked about what our conversation should’ve been. We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”

What part of, "we(meaning CP, and JZ) realized(meaning became aware of) it was a situation(meaning the dust up they had via the media)that we(meaning CP, and JZ)let go to far", DON'T YOU GET????????

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Tom Cruise Couch Leaps - a now somewhat dated reference to a barometer of sorts.

Posted by: bmo63

TCCL's are over! No more please. Time to get rid of it, and the hogettes. Tired, a bit weird, and not at all relevant in 2008.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Wow... Learned Hand drops Zora Neale Hurston up here... love it...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 10, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

so is daggar for racial justice same as our cload and daggar?

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Greg, it's not over until WaPo says it's over.

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 10, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

"I didn’t need him to say that. We talked about what our conversation should’ve been. We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”

But despite this, you're gonna beat that dead horse.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

You're taking that quote and using it as your defense that its over, but CP said repeatedly it wouldn't have been a problem if Zorn had talked to him, and that's what went to far, its far from a dead issue but go head and bury your head and pretend it is dead when coaches around here have lost their job for a lot less than something like this under Snyder's tenure.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Portis is a spur of the moment kind of guy. So he can be angry one day, smiling the next. I got almost zero problem with what has happened.

As I said before -- an angry and healthier Portis is not a bad thing.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

"You know, I love Mr. Snyder, Mr. Snyder love me, that's my man. You know, he kept me around, him and Vinny."

Seems pretty clear who won this thing. I think Zorn will be gone [soon] after the season.

Portis pockets straight

Posted by: alyce_b | December 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

curz, you meant to write, Leigh Torrence...in place of WAPO, right??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

pretend it is dead when coaches around here have lost their job for a lot less than something like this under Snyder's tenure.

Posted by: zjfr2

Maybe even Snyder has grown up? Let us hope!

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

and zorn said repeatedly he doesn't need to do that, again, that's not resolved or buried, that's just put off, cause neither side has admitted fault, they have just added blame, in fact CP is the only one coming close by saying we both let it go to far, but he never said he was wrong and Zorn didn't either.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

This week in Good Choices/Bad Choices

Good choice: calling either Albert or Norman Einstein a genius
Bad choice: calling JIm Zorn a genius

And thats all for this week in Good Choices/Bad Choices

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

zj, I'm using a DIRECT QUOTE from Portis, where he said, "so its over with"....and you're still trying to refute this.....ufb....wow...

don't let facts get in the way of you trying to make a point......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

I just think Zorn is feeling himself more that he should.

JM220

I've been accused of that.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Please bring Marty back!

Posted by: jgarrisn | December 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

greg, they just said a WHOLE lotta junk around that sentence you quoted but you're only focused on that one sentence.

for example and is not limited to just these...i'm too lazy to go back and get them: portis said zorny should've come to him. zorny said he don't need to do that.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Portis is a spur of the moment kind of guy. ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 4:45 PM

I think it was a Bangles tune (maybe Bananarama) ... "Manic Tuesday"?

jm220, you know I love you like a double carob fudge tofutti banana split with birdseed ... I'm just happy it's moved off Jasno for a while.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

greg, sometimes I forget the RI parlance...

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 10, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

*** FF ***

For those interested, I dropped 5 guys off my team, including an RB who got 16 points last week, a top kicker and a few WRs that have put up decent points along the way. Have at 'em.

***

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

"We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”

Can someone translate what this means???

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

lmgo @ e!!! i was like huh...zorny was feeling himself...infront of everyone...that's just wrong.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

This would have never happened if Leigh Torrence was still on the team.

Posted by: chirsch | December 10, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Information we don't want to know about E.
LOL

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Which quotes do you want to choose as true from CP yesterday's when he was angry and emotional (which tend to be when someone is the most honest) talking about an entire season of frustration with a coach who thinks he's a genius but doesn't know how to use CP or anybody else properly or today's when he's calmed talked with his buddy the owner, been assured his pockets will stay straight and has admitted no fault and said it was good to get things off my chest and Zorn has admitted nothing either and said its not his job to talk to players, but that everything is fine now. What planet do you live on that makes you think everything is just suddenly fine and Portis no longer feels like he did yesterday?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

I wish the Portis-Zorn thing would blow over so we can get back to Leigh Torrence.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

What a stupid, freaking waste of a post. We know how to read the Bog. It's easy to find the bog.

"Yo dawg, I know how much you love reading blogs, so I put a bog inside your blog so you can bog while you blog."

Posted by: RickyRage | December 10, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

The planet where clinton portis said this today:

We realized it was a situation that we let go too far. So, it’s over with.”


again, you're a drama queen, go pick your dress out for the prom......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 10, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Would not wish this on anyone but Pitt might have done what Sheriff Goodell wouldn't.


http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/10/report-pacmans-neck-injury-is-career-threatening/

Posted by: Curzon417 | December 10, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Wow... Learned Hand drops Zora Neale Hurston up here... love it...

Posted by: NateinthePDX | December 10, 2008 4:42 PM


At this time last year, I was gonna drop a clever "Their Eyes Were Watching Todd," but thought maybe no one would get it.

Silly me for not remembering that Nate was an English major.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

... What planet do you live on that makes you think everything is just suddenly fine and Portis no longer feels like he did yesterday?

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:53 PM

Hypothetical conversation:

Zorn: Clinton, I mishandled that, but I'm going to make it up to you. Cincinnati has the worst D in the league so we're going to get you over 200 yards to you back on track for the yardage record this season. Are we cool?

Clinton: We're cool.

Zorn (to the receptionist): Send in Springs.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

and he also said:

"Uh, a distraction from what? We've done lost four out of our last five games, so if it's a distraction, what else can we do? We can't do nothing but win, now."

I can't speak for other guys. I know how I felt, I spoke on how I was feeling. I didn't speak for nobody else, I'm not the voice of the team, I'm not the voice of reason. I spoke for myself."

On whether he wished they had just talked face-to-face on Monday: "Yeah, then I wouldn't be up here answering this to y'all. But at the same time, he said what he had to say and I understand his point, and where he was coming from. And I tried to get him to understand. I've been calling him a genius all year. You know, all of the sudden it make headlines, 'Our Coach a Genius.' I've been told y'all he's smart." (sarcasm any one? cause he didn't mean it as a compliment yesterday)

We're not gonna sever ties. You know, I'm a Washington Redskin. You know, I love Mr. Snyder, Mr. Snyder love me, that's my man. You know, he kept me around, him and Vinny. Coach got an appreciation from me. I think yesterday it was just aggravation, losing four games, everybody want to win. You know, we both got egos, so I should have said it to him....Understand, I'm a Washington Redskin. Before this turns into a whole 'nother 'Clinton Portis Want Out of Washington,' I love [the] Washington, D.C. area. I love this DMV or whatever you want to call it. Me and Obama got big plans for the next four years, so I'll be here.

Any time you get something off your chest that you need to get off your chest, any man right here can vouch, when you get it off your chest, you feel less stressed. I feel less stressed, I feel good, I'm smiling. Hey. Beers on me, if y'all feel like it."

That all sounds like nothing to me and that CP is perfectly happy and there are no issues what-so-ever.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Zorn (to the receptionist): Send in Springs.

Posted by: dcsween
Oh that is just wrong. LMAO

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

speaking of panties...btw...i know atleast one respected reg. up here doesn't like kim kardeshian but DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! she's aight!!!! that butt deserves legendary status. only other i can think of is j-lo. and raise your hands if you've seen THE VIDEO...i haven't. just wondering what you guys thought of it. i am a gentleman of high society and do not partake in such activity.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse
I'm a discerning gentleman also. I do not stoop to watch that garbage. I would not insult my bride by watching that muck. So, just to make sure I don't see it by mistake, would someone point out THE VIDEO, so that I can be certain not to watch it.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 10, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

sween, you're being mean.

greg, everyone wants this to be over just as bad as you. i'm sick of talking about it so is everyone else up here (i hope!).

i just can't wait till sunday. because sunday and only sunday's outcome will decide if this lives on or dies and not yours or my wishful thinking.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

CP, I'll have a Darwin Stubby thanks bud!

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

i just can't wait till sunday. because sunday and only sunday's outcome will decide if this lives on or dies and not yours or my wishful thinking.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, a win staves things off for another week, a lose to Cincy, and things get really ugly really fast around here, that's my point, nothing has been "resolved" its just been shelved for now.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Lose to the Bengals, and the rumors about The Chin coming to DC will be unstoppable.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 10, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Darwin Stubby?

Isn't that the annual award they give for best accidental self-dismemberment?

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

Isn't that the annual award they give for best accidental self-dismemberment?

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 5:08 PM

Category of Darwin Awards presented to John Wayne Bobbitt.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 5:17 PM | Report abuse

"I'm not the voice of reason. I spoke for myself."

****

Tells you all you need to know about "handling" CP!

Posted by: p1funk | December 10, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Portis sounds like an absolute dumb ass....unreal that this is your "stud, your hero, your best back in the league" What an idiot.

Posted by: po403 | December 10, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

I just watch the CP interview. Not sure Springs can clown around with CP but not be able to play in games.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

The best we've done during CP's tenure--and it certainly isn't his fault--is 10-6, and getting our a** kicked by Seattle in the second round.

Our ineffective presence in the league may not be CP's problem, but other than statistics, CP has little legacy to point to in Washington.

Whether he goes or stays is unimportant, given the fact that we were mediocre before him, and mediocre with him.

Posted by: jakfish | December 10, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Sigh ... ya know I'm just tired of "medium".
Portis is "medium". Snyder is "medium".
It sounds like "let's get into the here and now" with Oprah's man Tolle.

I prefer "nothing stops the Hulk" errr the Washington Redskins defense as they unerringly and constantly sack the opponent's quarterback ...

Posted by: periculum | December 10, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

jakfish, I strongly doubt that Portis is going anywhere. He's locked up for three years on a contract no team would even THINK about trading for ... what I know less about is the remaining duration of Betts' contract.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 5:35 PM | Report abuse

JC interview on Skins.com said the team has been playing tight. Worried about making mistakes. I believe somone pointed that out about a week ago.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 10, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

an article that probably interests only me. I think its odd that they show a photo of a river that is few hundred miles away from the town in the story. A bit like a story that takes place in Carolina and features a pic of the Potomac.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081210/sc_nm/us_chile_tribe

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

sween, after this season, Betts has three years left on his current 5-year contract extension. Total contract value is as much as $11 million. He got a $3.5 million signing bonus, has $5.5 million in guaranteed money, and has workout bonuses of $100,000 each.

I don't know how those workout bonuses shake out in a trade, but assuming that the $5.5 million is annualized*, he'd cost a new team $3.3 million in a trade. (* - Possibly a poor assumption, since I don't know if they've shifted payout dates around to free up cap space since the signing. He might cost even more.)

But I think we keep Betts right where he is, and increase his role.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

But I think we keep Betts right where he is, and increase his role.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Betts is a damn good RB. He just hasn't gotten many chances since 2006. But when he did get to start in 2006, he was a beast. No way I would trade him.

Posted by: ga8085 | December 10, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

One day, someone will figure it out. Portis is a smallish back that plays extremely physical ball. Goes between tackles and blocks guys giving away 80lbs. Its tough to play 16 games in this league as an RB, even for guys that don't block.

Keep Betts. And have him be the feature back 4 games a year. Portis needs the rest in order to be the beast he can be in December.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Zorn has done a great job to get 7 wins out of this team. But at this point they're really looking old and slow, and now "look-at-me" Portis is going to run his yapper.

Cincinnati 24 'Skins 21

Posted by: josettes | December 10, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

No doubt we's a gonna stick one up the Bengals this weekend....

BONG!

Portis Over / Under :

120 yards

Even without CS and JJ....and the other dude that got smoked by T-Sizzle on SNF - Geisinger?

Go 'Skins!

Posted by: bigmurf08 | December 10, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

freakzilla, ga8085, and zcezcest ... Betts playing = "benching" Portis ... need to figure out the counter-narrative ... or win these final three games with Portis leading the league in yards. [Unless you mean that Betts can have as many yards as available in "garbage time".]

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

bigmurf, welcome back!

I'll take the over on Portis' yardage this week ... maybe by alot. I'm thinking its part of the deal that makes yesterday = bygones.

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

Why is it that when I try to post a somewhat large comment, it has to be approved???

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:20 PM | Report abuse

I've been trying to post ESPN's Scouts Inc's preview of the game.

They've predicted we win 23-14

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:22 PM | Report abuse

kost, I think the Post has taken some steps with their filtering software to keep premium content from other sites from being re-posted here. You could try posting it without any text noting where it came from.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

My approach would have been to give Betts starts earlier in the year (3-4), in order to keep Portis strong for the entire season. Too late for that now. 3 games to go and unless there is garbage time, Portis the man.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

Betts is a dish best served sparingly. He's no Chester Taylor, Derrick Ward or even a healthy Buckhalter.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | December 10, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Preview Part 1

The Bengals are simply trying to end their frustration and find a way to win at home, but the Redskins still have hopes of reaching the postseason and can't look past the Bengals. Cincinnati has played some quality teams close in recent weeks and have the personnel to be a spoiler to a team with postseason aspirations.

When Washington has the ball-
The Redskins' offense is based on a strong ground game that is led by RB Clinton Portis and one of the more powerful blocking fullbacks in Mike Sellers. Portis is the league's third leading rusher and is averaging 4.7 yards per carry. Portis is one of the most explosive backs in the league and runs equally well between the tackles and to the perimeter. The ability to move the ball on the ground sets up the Redskins' passing game because head coach Jim Zorn likes to use play-action as well as the West Coast passing game. QB Jason Campbell is one of the more accurate passers in the league when he has time, but can struggle with his accuracy when the pass rush manages to break down the pocket. The Bengals rank 23rd in the NFL when it comes to stopping the run, but managed to hold the Colts to a total of 57 yards on 20 carries last week. The bad news is that they have struggled when it comes to getting to opposing quarterbacks.

When Cincinnati has the ball-
The Bengals are not running the ball very well at all now with an average of just 3.4 yards per carry. RB Chris Perry is fumbling the ball too often and Cedric Benson is not only still learning the offense, but is not running as hard as he should. Offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski has to work the short passing game with primarily one- and three-step drops because the offensive line simply can't provide enough protection for the quarterback to take a five-step drop, while the receivers run deep routes or double moves. The good news is that the Redskins don't have a ferocious pass rush and QB Ryan Fitzpatrick should have more time to survey the field than he is used to. Still, don't expect much of a downfield passing attack because Fitzpatrick lacks the arm strength to challenge most secondaries deep. Expect defensive coordinator Greg Blache to use a lot of combination coverage in an attempt to confuse Fitzpatrick and force some turnovers.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:51 PM | Report abuse

Zeese, I'm on board with the idea of Portis being a 12 starts per year back, but I think you also have to break those starts up so as not to be consecutive. Give him some time to rest and recuperate during the season.

As for how to break it up, I think you have to look at the schedule and see where it makes the most sense to rest him (I'm thinking non-conference opponents). As for helping Portis deal with less playing time in those games, you just make sure that he understands that you're not sitting him because you don't need him, but because you do need him and want to make sure he's healthy when it matters most.

But you're right, that's for next year and beyond; these next three weeks need to be the Clinton Portis Show.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Preview Part 2

Matchup to watch-
Redskins RB Clinton Portis vs. Bengals MLB Dhani Jones

Portis drives the Redskins' offense and is one of the best running backs in the NFL. He runs well between the tackles and to the edges. He's an aggressive downhill runner that does a great job of finishing his runs off and has the speed to get around the corner and avoid tacklers in space. Jones leads the Bengals in tackles and has a good nose for the ball. He is a solid tackler who makes plays in space as well as in the hole. Jones needs to make plays going downhill and keep Portis from breaking out.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:56 PM | Report abuse

Preview Part 3

Washington's Keys to Success-

1) Pound it with Portis: While Zorn loves the West Coast passing game, he knows that his best chance to move the chains is with Portis but losing LT Chris Samuels will not help because Portis loves to run behind him as well as LG Pete Kendall. After not throwing a single interception for eight games, Campbell has thrown six in the past five and the best way to take pressure off of the passing attack is to establish a strong ground game.

2) Short passing game: One of the reasons Campbell has struggled with interceptions as of late is that he feels the needs to hit some tight windows in an effort to make something happen. Zorn needs to call shorter, easier passes off play-action to get Campbell into a rhythm and build his confidence. Campbell has to let his receivers make something happen after the catch, rather than attacking downfield all the time.

3) Blitz Fitzpatrick: Blache feels like his base defense should be able to contain Cincinnati's ground game, so he needs to be a little creative in order to pressure Fitzpatrick into throwing some bad passes. His quality corners can man up on most receivers and more than hold their own, so a heavy blitz package would be a good way to manufacture a pass rush.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:57 PM | Report abuse

Preview Part 4

Cincinnati's Keys to Success-

1) Give Fitzpatrick time: Fitzpatrick is not the most mobile quarterback and the Bengals' offensive line has given up 48 sacks, second most in the NFL. Whether they use a two-tight end formation or keep a fullback in to help block, Bratkowski has to find a way to give Fitzpatrick more time to read the field and find his receivers. Using a sliding pocket or rollouts by Fitzpatrick as well as calling some early screen passes can also help slow down the rush.

2) Safety in the box: Defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer knows that the Redskins will want to establish the run to set up the pass. If he can crowd the box with extra defenders and take away the run lanes available to Portis, Zimmer can force Campbell to throw the ball more than the Redskins want him to. Look for SS Chinedum Ndukwe to spend a lot of time up near the line of scrimmage in order to help stop Portis before he gets hot.

3) Pressure Campbell: Campbell can be an extremely accurate passer when given time, but when defenses get to him early he has a tendency to get a little nervous in the pocket and starts to worry more about what is going on around his legs than his accuracy. Cincinnati needs to find a way to manufacture a pass rush with a wide variety of blitzes and stunts, especially with Samuels out.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Preview Conclusion

Scouts Edge-

The Redskins are still in the playoff picture although they really can't afford to lose any more games. Once Portis is able to establish the ground game, Campbell will look to connect on a controlled passing attack. Campbell needs to eliminate the interceptions that have haunted him in the past few weeks and the porous Cincinnati secondary is a good place to start.

Prediction-
Washington 23
Cincinnati 14

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

Good on ya, kost!

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

I hope the new O-linemen are able to do at least as well as the OLD ones. That remains to be seen. If not, expect CP to mouth off about how he could leap tall buildings, if he only had a good O-line.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 7:17 PM | Report abuse

If that happens, I hope CP at least does it while dressed up as Uncle Rico (to go with his Dolomite "Napoleon Dynamite" Jenkins).

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 7:26 PM | Report abuse

Fabini, Thomas, Rabach, Kebdall, and Heyer....LOL...please...it is OVER FOLKS !

Posted by: po403 | December 10, 2008 7:27 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't speak for nobody else, I'm not the voice of the team, I'm not the voice of reason. I spoke for myself."

I wonder what CP scored on the wonderlich?

Coach got an appreciation from me.

WTF does that mean? CP appreciates coach, or coach appreciates CP?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 7:29 PM | Report abuse

This assessment roughly corresponds to examples from Paul Zimmerman's The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football. According to Zimmerman, examples of average scores for each position are:

Offensive tackle - 26
Center - 25
Quarterback - 24
Guard - 23
Tight end - 22
Safety - 19
Linebacker - 19
Cornerback - 18
Wide receiver - 17
Fullback - 17
Halfback - 16
Pat McInally, a graduate of Harvard University, is the only football player to record a confirmed perfect score of 50.[

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse

po403, was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 7:35 PM | Report abuse

freak -- we're on the same page with Portis. I would look at the schedule and identify games where Portis wouldn't be the feature back. A Sunday game following a Monday night game might be a good time. Non-conference games would be another situation. Games where you'd want to emphasize passing to the RBs is another (since the drop-off to Betts isn't as large in that type of game). And I'd have him play in those 4 games, just not as the feature back.

It wouldn't be as simple as play CP 3 weeks and have him sit on week 4.

I think CP would be on board with it, just go over it with him in advance. Every training camp, he always talks about how important it is to rest during the season.

I know he'd love to be at his strongest during December.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Ole Miss OT Oher, Georgia LB Ellerbe among prospects whose stock is falling

Test to see if this link can be posted.

Also, more interesting than refighting the same fighting which we already fighted to death yesterday.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 10, 2008 7:45 PM | Report abuse

kost- I certainly haven't analyzed the skins offense as thoroughly as you have, but it seemed that a successful vertical passing game drew one or two defenders out of the box during the win-streak, which left Portis with room to run. When Zorny tried to establish Portis early in the game later in the season, the offense seemed to fizzle. My point: establishing Portis means connecting on longballs first, IMHO.

I've been calling for more short slants and hot-reads for a few weeks now, agree with you there.

Great post.

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 10, 2008 7:47 PM | Report abuse

I believe it's meant to be said "which we already FOUGHTED yeaterday"

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

...posts

Posted by: RomoLongballs | December 10, 2008 7:49 PM | Report abuse

Has anyone ever looked at the wonderlic test other than me? Because it has nothing to do with football smarts. Seriously, take a look and ask yourself ... how does this help me figure out if this guy can play?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse

I always thought the Wonderlic Tests showed who could eat an ice cream the quickest.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

The Wonderlic Personnel Test is a twelve-minute, fifty-question intelligence test used to assess the aptitude of prospective employees for learning and problem-solving

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 7:54 PM | Report abuse

http://www.walterfootball.com/draftwonderlic.php

Example question:

Assume the first 2 statements are true. Is the final one:
True False Not certain

The boy plays for the Tigers.
All the players on the Tigers wear white sneakers.
The boy wears white sneakers.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

While an average football player usually scores around 20 points, Wonderlic, Inc. claims a score of at least 10 points suggests a person is literate.[6] Furthermore, when the test was given to miscellaneous people of various professions, it was observed that the average participant scored a 24. Examples of scores from everyday professions included:

Chemist - 31
Programmer - 29
Journalist - 26
Sales - 24
Bank teller - 22
Clerical worker - 21
Security guard - 17
Warehouse - 15

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

Thanks for the correction, kost.

Hamsters helping their fellow hamsters, or as a great man once said "Can we all get along?"
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 10, 2008 7:56 PM | Report abuse

zeese, those example questions are always the easiest. Those used to always get my confidence up before taking standardized tests.

Sample question: If an egg carton says it contains a dozen eggs, and there are a dozen eggs in the carton, how many eggs are in the carton?

A) 12
B) A dozen
C) All of them


Sweet! Then you start the test, and question 1 is:

Express the Preamble to the US Constitution as a quadratic equation.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 10, 2008 8:08 PM | Report abuse

I can see giving that test to see if someone is illiterate ... just so you would know. But to suggest a guy who gets 20 is somehow going to be less a player than a guy who scores 35 ... not buying it.

It tells you nothing about how a person takes textbook instructions and turns it into physical perception. Strangely, they'd be better off giving dance lessons and seeing who gets the movements. I call that the Jason Tayloric test.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 8:15 PM | Report abuse

I can see giving that test to see if someone is illiterate ... just so you would know. But to suggest a guy who gets 20 is somehow going to be less a player than a guy who scores 35 ... not buying it.

Maybe that's why Zorn is upset about the lack of execution. Perhaps his offense requires, more than most, the ability to think on the run and improvise? Just a thought.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

gonna borrow that line freak. I do recall an exam in college where I started reading the test questions, then looked around to see if I was in the correct room!! Unfortunately ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 8:19 PM | Report abuse

I'm just trying to visualize Bill Walsh looking at Jerry Rice's wonderlic score and thinking -- 'this kid is too risky ...'.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Who cares about what he said and he said. What I want to know is the solution from Jim Zorn to boost this offense. I am tired of hearing execution bull... What the f... is going on here. I mean these are elite players who are paid millions of dollars and cant seem to understand a basic offense. Somebody explain it to me how hard it is to block, run and pass.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 10, 2008 8:33 PM | Report abuse

The Wonderlic Personnel Test=power rankings

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 8:39 PM | Report abuse

"Maybe that's why Zorn is upset about the lack of execution. Perhaps his offense requires, more than most, the ability to think on the run and improvise? Just a thought."

but not a very good one.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

I dunno CL, sometimes I wonder if Malcolm Kelly can run and catch at the same time.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Somebody explain it to me how hard it is to block, run and pass.

Posted by: thewayitis | December 10, 2008 8:33 PM

I have two chief weapons with which to respond to your kweschun:

1) Explain it to me how hard it is to rush the QB, defend the run, and cover receivers.

2) It's hard work.

3) A fanatical devotion to the Pope...
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 10, 2008 8:53 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I'm watching the Saints/Falcons replay on NFL Network. Both teams are rushing easily on each other. Matt Ryan looks great for the Falcons but I'm even more impressed with all their WRs who are making great cathes in double coverage. Why can't we do that?

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 10, 2008 8:55 PM | Report abuse

I dunno CL, sometimes I wonder if Malcolm Kelly can run and catch at the same time.

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 8:53 PM

Kost,

He did it very well at the University of Oklahoma. Makes me wonder what's wrong with Zorn and his coaches that he can't do it here. All he's done since he's gotten here is blame the players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Come on TE, Kelly has dropped some really catchable passes the past few weeks, can't blame that on Zorn!

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 9:01 PM | Report abuse

basically they, zorny and portis, did nothing but add more fuel to this fire.

please raise your hand if you have switched positions on this issue from yesterday. neither one of them said anything to appease (sp/wrong word) the other side.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 10, 2008 4:29 PM | Report abuse

I didn't switch sides, but when there is a battle between the HC and the running back, things ain't good. And it probably won't favor the RB.

We need a no drama Obama. This is just too much.

Plus, like people have been saying since JKC sold, it's all Dan Snyder's fault.

Posted by: columbiard | December 10, 2008 9:01 PM | Report abuse

All this "medium" BS is gonna get us to 8-8.

I'd say medium Sucks.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:10 PM | Report abuse

Come on TE, Kelly has dropped some really catchable passes the past few weeks, can't blame that on Zorn!

Posted by: kost52 | December 10, 2008 9:01 PM

Everyone on this team has dropped catchable passes. My gripe with Zorn is that he hasn't thrown the rookies enough passes to get into any kind of a rhythm. They're rookies. They drop passes. But so do ARE, Moss, and Cooley.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Portis is a GREAT RB, but no player or coach is above the team.

Portis crossed the line, but he's been coddled since he got here. Would this happen in Miami (parcells) or NE (Bellichick)

Hell No!!!!

Posted by: rickyroge | December 10, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

I'd say medium Sucks.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:10 PM

So which would you rather be: rare or well done?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 9:14 PM | Report abuse

To date all Zorn has done is ride the running game and roster Gibbs put together until it broke because the passing guru couldn't bring a legitimate passing attack or successfully "coach up" three 2nd round picks to contributing status while the whole time blaming the players, humiliating a 10 year vet by letting him find out from the media he'd been benched, and alienating the team's best player.....not an impressive start....but hey he's quirky and gives a great quote and answers every question even when he shouldn't....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Down with "Medium"...

The Team needs to get "High"

know'm'sayin'

I think Portis might have been sitting back with a few frosty bottles of truth serum during his John Thompson Skit.

They smoothed it out. But Zorn needs to quit picking on the teams best player. Apparently he didn't like the taste of his own medicine.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Hip Hip - You're a Friggin' Genius!

Hip Hip You're Fired!

That's Hilarious.

Hip Hip - See ya in practice!

Hip Hip - Quit biking with Bush, Einstein.

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:31 PM | Report abuse

...humiliating a 10 year vet by letting him find out from the media he'd been benched...
Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:15 PM
=============================================
Jon Jansen has been a good player for the Redskins most of his ten years.

But he has not been able to do his job against NFC East quality defenses during our current downturn.

This is not unprecedented.

Grimm played 11 seasons for the Redskins and was a first team selection to the NFL 1980s All-Decade Team.

Russ Grimm > Jon Jansen
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 10, 2008 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Hip Hip - S my D!

Hip Hip - K my A!

Hip Hip - Blow Me!

Hip Hip - F U!

Hip Hip - Draft a Punter!

Hip Hip - Then Cut Him!

Hip Hip - Playoffs?! Playoffs?! Are you Kidding Me? Playoffs??

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Great Point TE...

As fans we are impatient and greedy...Some are calling for Zorn's head but no coach can win with ARE, Moss, and Thrash as the starting receivers.

I say we stay the course, and coach up young WR's

Posted by: rickyroge | December 10, 2008 9:39 PM | Report abuse

I just read over the new posts today and came to a conclusion. Jansen isn't completely worthless. He is good for something.
...
...
Stating the obvious.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | December 10, 2008 9:43 PM | Report abuse

This is not unprecedented.

Grimm played 11 seasons for the Redskins and was a first team selection to the NFL 1980s All-Decade Team.

Russ Grimm > Jon Jansen
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdo

IFTHE:

I don't follow. Yes Grimm is better player than Jansen. But are you suggesting that Grimm found out from the media that he lost his starting job? That is really what is at issue here (can you talk man to man to someone before you rip them in the media) not who was the best OL player the skins had.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 10, 2008 9:57 PM | Report abuse

but not a very good one.....

Posted by: chrislarry

what does Mr. (two first names? think is a good idea? I am waiting to be enlightened by your genius. Don't disappoint.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 10, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Eight months later, and a choice by Vinny in the second round, oh how the tune has changed:

Malcomtent Kelly, the prima donna from Oklahoma, the University where they tied his shoe laces together and slowed him down.

Posted by: talent evaluator | April 11, 2008 5:00 PM

He did it very well at the University of Oklahoma. Makes me wonder what's wrong with Zorn and his coaches that he can't do it here. All he's done since he's gotten here is blame the players.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | December 10, 2008 8:57 PM

Also, with what we know now about the need for pre-camp knee surgery (resulting in having to miss camp and a couple/few months of the season), anybody sense that the Skins medical staff might have missed a flashing yellow light at the Oklahoma Pro Day last year (the official explanation of which was a difference btwn the training surface and the timing surface)?

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Good point Sween. It's curious though why they didn't bring one of their physicians with them to give him a complete physical. I'm sure they could have watched film and seen if he was faster earlier in the year than during his time trials where he blew a nasty fart.

Posted by: JesusFreakKaren | December 10, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 10, 2008 9:15 PM

+

Posted by: LeftwithNochoice | December 10, 2008 9:24 PM

=

power rankings

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

Devin Thomas was a known risk of being a one season wonder. At the Oklahoma Pro Day, Malcolm Kelly turned in a pedestrian time in the 40 (I think he walked), blamed the university, and it turns out he was sandbagging to hide a bad knee. Both were so pleased with themselves about how impressively high they got drafted, they showed up to camp out of shape ... each scoring hamstring injuries before camp broke ... delaying any real progress in learning the pro game.

Of course, I blame Zorn for failing to get them "enough passes to get into any kind of a rhythm" and not "coaching them up."

POWER RANKINGS!

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

That is really what is at issue here (can you talk man to man to someone before you rip them in the media) not who was the best OL player the skins had.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 10, 2008 9:57 PM
=============================================
The point I was making was that while Jon Jansen has been good Redskin, he's not able to do his job anymore. And he's not alone on our line in that respect, which compounds the problem.

I don't disagree with your point about communication, by the way. Jim Zorn would be better if he was excellent at that, instead of kinda sucky, as the information we have seems to indicate.

But Jim Zorn is a rookie coach. Should his communication SJK be rated more harshly than rookie pass reception SJK?

I'd hope not. Because the blame for the fact that circumstances are this harsh belongs with the F.O. Danny and Vinnie, and such as.

And no head coach could be dropped in from heaven and make our line block better. These are the cards we have been dealt.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | December 10, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

OK got it. Agreed that it is difficult but necessary to transition to younger players...and that frequently it takes too long to do so...just would like it done a little more gracefully as the little things add up in terms of losing the team. I wish we could be more aggressive in timing too - this feels like a cliff for Jansen (instead of having him be a mentor/etc. and on rotations to help in the waning years)

On communications, the locker room perspective could easily be:
-number of times Zorn has publicly called a player out or soft or thrown him under the bus = about 10
-number of times that the player knew it was coming = 0
-number of times Zorn has taken responsibility for a loss = 0 (it is always 'execution' which is code for the players didn't follow my most excellent gameplan or they just aren't good enough).

But what do I know.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 10, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Great Point TE...

As fans we are impatient and greedy...Some are calling for Zorn's head but no coach can win with ARE, Moss, and Thrash as the starting receivers.

I say we stay the course, and coach up young WR's

Posted by: rickyroge | December 10, 2008 9:39 PM


Ummm, we went to the playoffs with these guys last year ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

How can you call yourself Zornskins and have romo as your starting FF QB?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Kyle Orton this weekend. I just forgot to update it.

Posted by: zornskins2 | December 10, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse

I'm channeling some 2005 Terrell Eldorado Owens:

All I'm saying is that if Bill Cowher were your coach, you'd be in the playoffs for sure...

EaglesFanAdam

Posted by: wtf_is_up_with_wp_registration | December 10, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

Zornskins, I mean have romo on your team ... silly

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 11:11 PM | Report abuse

All the Cowher talk up here is fun, but not very practical. Cowher will get paid plenty wherever he decides to go, if he decides to go.

Thing is, Cowher will choose the among the owners. Pretty sure that Danny isn't on the list.

My guess ... Cowher becomes HC of the ... jints, succeeding coughlin, who takes Cowher's job on TV.

This is probably a good time for the Chin to return ... seems like there will be plenty of HC openings.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse

two first names, wow what a great insult! I wonder what your wonderlic score is issy?

I just don't think Zorn's scheme is to cerebral for te team to grasp, and its kind of silly view on it. Also IF it is to cerebral than its a bad scheme, football is not a cerebral game. Attack you idiots!

Posted by: chrislarry | December 10, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1, we also had Keenan McCardell and Reche Caldwell on the team last year when we made it to the playoffs along with Santana, El, and Thrash....and we can't forget Mix

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 10, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse

exactly Lisa. 3 guys so good at the #3 WR that none of them are in the league this year.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 10, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse

can't wait to see what day 3 brings...

seriously, boswell's interesting column was probably enough guys.. let's move on

Posted by: rfjh1 | December 11, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse

F Dallas.

Posted by: freakzilla | December 11, 2008 1:50 AM | Report abuse

This blog is dead this morning!

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 7:30 AM | Report abuse

brown,

I wasted all morning reading the posts from last night, some people on here are very dumb.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 7:47 AM | Report abuse

Anybody knows that when you have a problem, if you need to go public, first take it to the head coach, first take it to the position coach, first take it to the offensive coordinator, and believe me, we're all willing to talk to anybody on our football team," Zorn said.

Maybe he should follow his own advice. Go to the player before going public.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, I've learned to not try and catch up from last night's stuff. I'm pretty sure some folks up here could be arrested for BUI (blogging under the influence).

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 7:49 AM | Report abuse

My guess ... Cowher becomes HC of the ... jints, succeeding coughlin, who takes Cowher's job on TV.

I doubt that since they just gave Coughlin a contract last year and the team is doing well this year.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 7:51 AM | Report abuse

This morning, I'm on Sally Jenkins' bus. For peeps up here who deem Zorn to have failed in his insensitivity to the need to stroke player egos ... whateves ...

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Maybe he should follow his own advice. Go to the player before going public.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 7:48 AM

Russ Grimm wouldn't have made that mistake...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 11, 2008 7:52 AM | Report abuse

On communications, the locker room perspective could easily be:
-number of times Zorn has publicly called a player out or soft or thrown him under the bus = about 10
-number of times that the player knew it was coming = 0
-number of times Zorn has taken responsibility for a loss = 0 (it is always 'execution' which is code for the players didn't follow my most excellent gameplan or they just aren't good enough).

But what do I know.

Posted by: zornskins2

I agree

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Of course, I blame Zorn for failing to get them "enough passes to get into any kind of a rhythm" and not "coaching them up."

Posted by: dcsween | December 10, 2008 10:09 PM

For morning readers, this one was sarcastic, just in case you didn't get that from the context.

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 7:54 AM | Report abuse

Flounder and jm220, are you saying that the team would be better if Zorn had just hugged them a little more?

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse

I, too, will take a ride on Sally's bus. I think that she only is going 2/3 as far as I would want to go.

If I was Campbell I would be writing my last will and testament because an offensive line anchored by Fabini and Heyer as your tackles bodes ill.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

I just don't think Zorn's scheme is to cerebral for te team to grasp, and its kind of silly view on it. Also IF it is to cerebral than its a bad scheme, football is not a cerebral game. Attack you idiots!

Posted by: chrislarry


A product of DC public schools?

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 11, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Flounder and jm220, are you saying that the team would be better if Zorn had just hugged them a little more?

Posted by: dcsween

No I am not saying that. All I am saying just like he doesn't want players going public and talk with him first. He needs to do the same thing. Talk with the players before you go public. Respect them the same way you want to be respected.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Bottom Line: We will not get a better coach than Zorn because NO ONE wants to deal with Danny's meddling and Vinny's incompetence. Until the Skins get a REAL GM, the Skins will always be an average team.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 11, 2008 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Talk with the players before you go public. Respect them the same way you want to be respected.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

This assumes he has not talked to them already. If we're assuming here, then my take is he's had many talks, and that some players don't listen.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 11, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

zj,

Why do you keep saying Zorn inherited Gibbs roster like that is a good thing, lets go over the roster to show you that it is not that good.

O-Linmen all mid 30 and getting older no good backups except Hyer.

D-Line that has not been able to get to the passer the last 5 years. No good backups

LB with the exception of Fletcher are they are average at best no good backups, Blades is OK.

WR Moss thats it. The rookies were not Gibbs so I leave them out.

RB Good running backs but with O-Line problems they can only do so much.

CB&Saftey Some good players not much deapth behind the starters you can not include Hall in this.

TE very good player but needs to block better and still drops balls.

QB good QB who is still developing the jury is still out.

Thanks Saint Joe for that roster I'm sure any coach that came here would have taken that roster to the SB. except Zorn because he has to worry about being nice to his players so he does'nt hurt there feelings.

I know you will say they were a playoff team last year, great backing into the playoffs at 9-7 and then getting crushed by Seattle is not my idea of a playoff team. 9-7 should never get you to the playoffs.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

TS,

You are so right. No top tier coach wants this mess.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 11, 2008 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Flounder and jm220, are you saying that the team would be better if Zorn had just hugged them a little more?

Posted by: dcsween | December 11, 2008 7:56 AM |

Don't put me in that, I am on Zorns side here CP is a crybaby, and sometimes players need a foot up there a$$ instead of a hug.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse

As fans we are impatient and greedy...Some are calling for Zorn's head but no coach can win with ARE, Moss, and Thrash as the starting receivers.

I say we stay the course, and coach up young WR's

Posted by: rickyroge | December 10, 2008 9:39 PM


Ummm, we went to the playoffs with these guys last year ...

Posted by: zcezcest1


Not only did we go to the playoffs with them, ZORN HIMSELF won with these guys earlier in the year. Now all of a sudden it's impossible to win with these guys??

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse

Great idea! Fire the coach after 1 season. That works every time!

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 11, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse

If I was Campbell I would be writing my last will and testament because an offensive line anchored by Fabini and Heyer as your tackles bodes ill.

Posted by: driley | December 11, 2008 7:57 AM |

Driley,

Why do you keep harping on this a line anchored by a hurt Samuels and Jansen was'nt doing to well either. Right now I would take you or me out there over Jansen.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 8:15 AM | Report abuse

This assumes he has not talked to them already. If we're assuming here, then my take is he's had many talks, and that some players don't listen.

Posted by: lsskinsfan

Well let me see. Jansen said he had no idea he was replace until a reporter told him. CP said as of Tuesday him and Zorn had not talk. Seems to me that is not talking with the players.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 11, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, you're not winning the talent argument. Zorn inherited an offense with 4 pro-bowl players, an efficient QB, and a top 5-10 defense. No shot in hell this team should be putting up less than 11 points per game the last 5 games. It's not Gibbs' fault Zorn refused to make adjustments to mask certain deficiencies.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse

From the Redskins blog, and mostly because I'm sick of debating if we're trading portis for trung candidate:

Fred Davis had a heck of a practice, with Todd Yoder’s knee ailing, and Davis found himself on the receiving end of compliments from Zorn. “I tip my hat to him,” Zorn said, after expressing confidence in the rookie tight end. Davis was active with the first team and the scout team today, so he got double work and may have actually made an impression with it.
Other injuries of note: Shawn Springs, Chris Horton, Kedric Golston, Cornelius Griffin, Marcus Washington, and London Fletcher all did not practice (although Golston did get a little bit of stretching in, I think). And Carlos Rogers was out with a stomach flu. So the number of players practicing was a little on the light side.
DeAngelo Hall continues to look terrific, ending practice with an interception off of a tipped ball. Since Hall arrived, the team has six interceptions; they had only one in the five games before signing him.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

CP said as of Tuesday him and Zorn had not talk. Seems to me that is not talking with the players.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

There are always two sides to a story. You obviously choose to believe what CP says I don't.

Posted by: lsskinsfan | December 11, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 11, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse

Flounder, you're not winning the talent argument. Zorn inherited an offense with 4 pro-bowl players, an efficient QB, and a top 5-10 defense. No shot in hell this team should be putting up less than 11 points per game the last 5 games. It's not Gibbs' fault Zorn refused to make adjustments to mask certain deficiencies.

Posted by: psps23 | December 11, 2008 8:21 AM |

That never one more then 10 games in a season under Gibbs, and they only had 2 pro bowlers on offense not 4 and with another year older O-Line that can not block it means nothing anyway.

Should they be scoring more sure but do not give me what a great team this was at the begining of the year.

Top 5-10 defense that can not get to the QB and could'nt under Gibbs either.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 11, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Why DID the Skins seem to do better in the first half of the season?

Actually, they got crushed by the Giants in NY (if anyone remembers).

The only impressive thing was they won at Dallas and then at Philly. But the defense carried the team in both those games and Dallas did not run Marion Barber at all. Those were not dominating wins by the Redskins; they were ugly wins--- remember we spotted the Eggos 14 points right off the bat like the Ravens.

All the other wins were against anemic defenses.

So maybe we should have paid more attention to the loss to NYG in game one than we did to all those 6 wins.

Posted by: TS_Alfabet | December 11, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

I hope Zorn has learned that any and all "riffs" whether they be between players, players and coaches or coaches/coaches/management must be kept in house and private. He must also realize that some players, especially superstars with accompanying egos, sometimes have to be treated with kid gloves. Great examples of this methodology are found in Bill Curry's book Ten Men You Meet In The Huddle. Curry had the same sensitive ego as Portis and talks about how Lombardi and Shula handled stars and scrubs alike. Very insightful.
What we need is a true, proven professional football man as general manager and Zorn needs to continue his proactive stance while being able to react and adjust to changing conditions.

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | December 11, 2008 9:32 AM | Report abuse

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