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What Snyder can learn from Steinbrenner

As he rode the train yesterday from New York City, Tom Boswell got to thinking about the similarities between Daniel Snyder and Yankees owner George Steinbrenner.

Steinbrenner didn't change so much as he grew. Pain and embarrassment were certainly catalysts. Perhaps age mellowed his mean streak, his pleasure in mortifying or demeaning those he paid. But he was also always a more entertaining, open and curious man than Snyder appears to be.
Redskins fans can hope that Snyder watched the World Series and saw Steinbrenner's sons proudly accepting the championship trophy with kind words and gratitude for their ailing dad. When Steinbrenner bought the Yankees 36 years ago, he was within a year of the age Snyder is now. Family-owned sports teams run in extremely long cycles. When they are down, the misery for their fans can seem to extend to the horizon.
But George Steinbrenner not only changed, he taught his sons the hardest lesson he ever learned: Don't think of yourself as baseball experts, micro-managers or the men who win the game.
Finally, he figured it out. He just hired smart people, left them alone as much as he could -- which was still less than he should have -- and wrote the checks.
This week, New York City praises Steinbrenner, the bully billionaire who reformed, the old man who finally got it: Less is more.

The reading room

A year ago, as Barry Svrluga writes today, DeAngelo Hall was in his first day as an unwanted, unemployed defensive back. Even now, as he prepares to return to Atlanta on Sunday, he says he probably wouldn't change a thing. ... Over at the Redskins Tailgate Zone, the question of the day is whether Hall has lived up to his big contract. ...

The wobbly economy is thriving when it comes to the NFL's TV ratings, Mark Maske writes.

Weigh in on Riggo

The League asks today: Were the comments by John Riggins on "Inside the NFL" out of line? ...

On his ESPN 980 radio show this morning, Vinny Cerrato came to Snyder's defense. Dan Steinberg has the details.

As for the previous owner...

Steinberg did a little digging about the days of Jack Kent Cooke and here's what he found out about things like his approval rating.

Chat today

Jason Reid takes your questions in an 11 a.m. chat today.

By Cindy Boren  |  November 6, 2009; 9:27 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Campbell on Davis: 'We need him right now'
Next: Daniels wins Ed Block Courage Award

Comments

Bean - Tony G was also about 35 or 36 (sorry, hes 33). Moss can be just as effective on a team where he has time to get open. Hes only 30.

I know you think no one on our team has any value, but I'm sure there are teams out there looking for a #2 speed WR.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

A trade you say?

"...I just don't see the young wideouts developing as long as Moss and Randle El are on the field..."

"...if Davis plays great for the rest of the season I wouldn't be opposed to trading him or Cooley in the offseason..."


To do this means someone somewhere else sees value in a player we'd like to get picks for.

Moss--yeah, he has value (but for what pick? he is about to turn 30, you know)

Cooley--yeah, he has value (but does his contract make moving him prohibitive?)

Davis--yeah, improved play will make him attractive (but why move a player you can use?)

Maybe until you can definately depend on Thomas/Mitchell/Kelly, you hold on to Moss, but become way more creative in using him.

Two tight end sets featuring both Davis and Cooley would be a headache maker.

So let's keep them all: the three of them together is probably better than whatever Vinny would get in return.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

Bean, I don't know about anyone else, all I was saying is that if Davis proves to be a very good TE over the rest of the season, and suddenly we have two top TE's on the roster, with all the other pressing needs we have, and a very deep 2010 draft class, why not explore the trade value of both of them? You're still left with one good TE, and you pick up a draft pick to hopefully use on an offensive lineman...its a moot point if Davis sucks, but look again at 2006, when Betts could have been had for a decent pick, and now we couldn't give him to Goodwill for a tax write-off...

Posted by: mattylight | November 6, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

ryp, tony g is a first ballot HOF player, last year on an AWFUL team, put up 96 grabs, 10 td's. Cooley is a good player, but not close to Tony...so if the Hawks got TG for a 2nd, Cooley would go for what a 4th or a 3rd?? I mean, what steps forward are you taking by doing that?? There's no such thing as being stagnant, so in essence, you just took steps backwards......

Here is another great line:

"but if Davis plays great for the rest of the season I wouldn't be opposed to trading him or Cooley in the offseason depending on what value they had. If we could get a high pick, I think it would be worth it in order to rebuild"

So, by trading either Cooley, or Davis, you'd take the TE position from a position of strength, to one that needs to be addressed....help me understand this logic...or non-logic...as it were..


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

So, by trading either Cooley, or Davis, you'd take the TE position from a position of strength, to one that needs to be addressed....help me understand this logic...or non-logic...as it were..


Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Read the above post

Posted by: mattylight | November 6, 2009 9:46 AM | Report abuse

Lets look at it like this, lets say we did trade davis and Cooley gets hurt. Now we have Todd Yoder as your starting TE. So suddenly the TE position is null and void, it becomes a NON-FACTOR in the offense.

How about this, learn how to utilize BOTH guys?? Crazy...i know....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

"What Snyder can learn from Steinbrenner"


Mistamayor

What's wrong with the Mighty Boswell's analysis is that Steinbrenner also won World Series in the '70s when he was a micro-managing bully.

So there's no lesson there.

But there is a leson for Mr. Snyder tolearn from The Curious Case of Jerry Jones.

Mr. Jones bought the Cowboys at 45 and won Super Bowls because he let Jimmy Johnson basically draft all the college kids he had tried to recruit to Miami in the late '80s.

The Cowboys' mini-dynasty of the early '90s collapsed because Jones thought he was the smartest guy in a very small room, and flipped into Madden GM mode before the term was invented by this blogga.

It took Bill Parcells' brains to correct Jones' mistakes much in the same way it'll take a smart football man's to fix what Vinny broke when the team chased Norv and Marty away out of mutual hubris and cluelessness.

There is no Sndyer-Steinbrenner connection.

But there is an addict's moment of clarity in Snyder's future: and 3-13 will be the numbers that will give it it's true value.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

ml, so what you're saying is that you're advocating for making a position of possible strength to a position of weakness....so instead of using all our picks on OL/LB, we now have to use a pick at TE because we weakened it by making a trade??

um...........help me out...how is that making forward progress...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Lets look at it like this, lets say we did trade davis and Cooley gets hurt. Now we have Todd Yoder as your starting TE. So suddenly the TE position is null and void, it becomes a NON-FACTOR in the offense.

How about this, learn how to utilize BOTH guys?? Crazy...i know....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

All right, dude. Whatever you say...

Posted by: mattylight | November 6, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we should trade Cooley. I'm just saying he's the only one worth decent trade value.

If we can develop Wr-TE-WR appropriately, I wouldn't be against trading Moss if we could get decent value for him, though.

Either way, we're going to need FOUR new offensive lineman by the time next year starts. We'll probably end up with MAYBE 2 new lineman.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

matt, explain it to me?? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but help me understand the logic behind this??

The moment Davis becomes a viable option, we're going to trade him?? We couldn't possibly hope to even break even on that, by getting a 2nd round pick in return, so right out of the gate, we're losing on this....I'm at a loss...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Bean, you must not read so well.

I said that it is a moot point if Davis sucks. If Davis shows himself for the next 9 games to be a legit TE, then the position is a strength with him on the roster, is it not? I am not saying trade them both, and I'm not saying trade Cooley if Davis proves to be mediocre, or worse. That, of course, wouldn't make sense. But if Davis can replicate his performance against the Eagles over the rest of the season, then even if Cooley is gone the position is still a strong point....

Posted by: mattylight | November 6, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

ml, right, until like we have now, one of them gets injured. Then, as I STATED ABOVE, Todd Yoder is your starting TE...kinda like, oh I don't know, lets say Chris Samuels went down, wouldn't it be nice to have a good young player backing him up....NAH..nevemind..

I'm kinda moving on from galactically stupid trade talk....have at it thought....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

if Davis ends up being a good tight end why not keep them both and run more 2 tight end sets?

Why trade your best offensive player and a proven talent for the right to pick someone who has never played a down in the NFL?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 6, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

matt, explain it to me?? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but help me understand the logic behind this??

The moment Davis becomes a viable option, we're going to trade him?? We couldn't possibly hope to even break even on that, by getting a 2nd round pick in return, so right out of the gate, we're losing on this....I'm at a loss...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

I'm not trying to be a jerk either. It all depends on your perspective of the position before Davis was drafted. To me, having one Pro-Bowl TE on the roster makes that a position of strength. So before Davis we had Cooley and Yoder. Def a significant drop off if Cooley got hurt, but still a position of strength for us, IMO.

Now, enter Davis. If he in Cooley's absence plays at a high level, and shows flashes of perhaps being a Pro-Bowl level TE or close to it, suddenly we have 2 on the roster. Now, having 2 would be awesome, and a great luxury, and I can understand you not wanting to get rid of that tandem. All I was saying is that if we could get a high pick for one of them and used it wisely, I wouldn't be that upset. If however, Davis sucks the rest of the year and we trade Cooley in the offseason, I would flip out because now with all our other needs we don't have a TE either...

Posted by: mattylight | November 6, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Alright then, how about decent O-lineman this coming offseason available in FA?

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

"I wouldn't be against trading Moss if we could get decent value for him, though."

What value does a 30 year old wide receiver with suspect hammies have in a league where teams increasingly find unpolished gems wide outs like Marcus Colston, Pierre Garcon?

In the minds of redskins' fan, Moss is a great player.

The rest of the league sees him as a small receiver who can't beat press coverage.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

ryp11

"...how about decent O-lineman this coming offseason available in FA?"

This must happen.

Let's say Levi Jones proves to be a player at left tackle.

You then can draft a right tackle or play Mike Williams at tackle, and draft a right guard.

You can add a another free agent tackle and right guard (this is my preference), draft a running back in round one, quarterback in round 2, and devote picks to middle linebacker, center, and cornerback.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Moss' hammies have been fine. He's a good player on a terrible team who gets keyed on by defenses because our offense is zero-dimensional.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

During the 1981 World Series, Steinbrenner provided a colorful backdrop to the Yankees' loss of the series. After a Game 3 loss in Los Angeles, Steinbrenner called a press conference in his hotel room, showing off his left hand in a cast and various other injuries that he claimed were earned in a fight with two Dodgers fans in the hotel elevator. Nobody came forward about the fight, leading to the belief that he had made up the story of the fight in order to light a fire under the Yankees.

-------------

Not that well versed in Steinbrennerology, but my impression is that George Stenbrenner is cut from a different cloth then Dan Snyder.

Steinbrenner was vociferously passionate about winning, to a fault. He was a man about it, front and center, and took no prisoners in his pursuit of excellence. He simply killed folks.

----------

"BLAM, you're dead."
-by George "The Boss" Steinbrenner

-----------

This is one bad man, and not in a Snyderesque way.

He's a convicted a felon, pardoned by Ronald Reagan. He was banned from baseball for life for going after Dave Winfield.

Snyder, by comparison, is wishy washy, and weak, and insecure.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 6, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Alright then, how about decent O-lineman this coming offseason available in FA?

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 10:05 AM


The Bucs have both their starting OT as FA. As we know, the Bucs aren't spending their cash. Both IMO as solid players. I also like that Igcognito (sp) dude on the Rams. IM he's a decent player.

Posted by: TWISI | November 6, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato would've lasted no more than five minutes working for George Steinbrenner.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 6, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

The Boss also had the ability to laugh at himself:

George Steinbrenner hosted Saturday Night Live on October 20, 1990 at the same time his former outfielder and Yankee manager, Lou Piniella, led the Cincinnati Reds to a World Championship.

In the opening sketch, he dreamt of a Yankees team managed, coached, and entirely played by himself. In other sketches, he chews out the SNL "writing staff" (notably including Al Franken) for featuring him in a mock Slim Fast commercial with other ruthless leaders such as Saddam Hussein and Idi Amin and plays a folksy convenience store manager whose business ethic is divergent from that of Steinbrenner.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 6, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato would've lasted no more than five minutes working for George Steinbrenner."


So true.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"He's a good player on a terrible team who gets keyed on by defenses because our offense is zero-dimensional."



Reggie Wayne plays in a one-diminesion offense.

Who do think has more value: Reggie Wayne or Santana Moss?

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Dan Snyder = Boy

George Steinbrenner = Man

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 6, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Reggie Wayne plays in a one-diminesion offense.

Who do think has more value: Reggie Wayne or Santana Moss?

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I think it would be more accurate to say that Moss is playing in a zero dimnsional offense.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato would've lasted no more than five minutes working for George Steinbrenner.

Posted by: Chia_Pet | November 6, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse


No kidding. Stein may have been an ego-addicted tyrant, but he demanded results and no one was spared the iron-fist.

An incompetent yes-man like Vinny would have been eaten for lunch working for Stein.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

You cannot compare Wayne to Moss. Put Wayne in Moss' place and see how he does.

Wayne has God at QB and the Spartans from 300 on the O-line.

Posted by: Rypien11 | November 6, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Reggie Wayne plays in a one-diminesion offense.

Who do think has more value: Reggie Wayne or Santana Moss?

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Reggie Wayne also has the benefit of a legit #2 reciever(Garcon). Before that he lined up across from Marvin Harrison. Add Dallas Clark and Anthony Gonzalez to the mix and you have several threats in the passing game.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think Reggie Wayne is a better player than Moss. But, Moss has Cooley as the only other real threat in the passing game.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 6, 2009 10:35 AM | Report abuse

Moss is playing in a zero dimnsional offense...

Oh, c'mon, give them some credit. He's playing in a three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense.



Unfortunately, that describes our passing game.

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

"Vinny Cerrato would've lasted no more than five minutes working for George Steinbrenner."

Posted by: Chia_Pet

"No kidding. Stein may have been an ego-addicted tyrant, but he demanded results and no one was spared the iron-fist.

An incompetent yes-man like Vinny would have been eaten for lunch working for Stein."

Posted by: p1funk
___________________________

no kidding. cerrato must "have something" on snyder. or he's just the best *ss-kissing ego-stroker dan's ever had. snyder has hardly been shy about firing other people. what is it about cerrato?

Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | November 6, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

Moss v. Wayne

Seriously, does Wayne has such a superior skill set?

Or could it be the QB he's playing with that makes the difference?

This is not even a debate.

What Moss has done as a Skin is nothing short of amazing when you consider the teams he's played on.

He's averaged 1000 yards receiving on some anemic run-first offenses with the likes of Mark Brunnell, Todd Collins and Jason Campbell throwing the ball; and no legit #2 WR to take heat off of him in the secondary.

He runs all the routes (including over the middle) and he's a monster after the catch. He's a big play threat every time he touches the ball and he's single-handedly won games for this team over the years.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

SNYDER MAKES CAMEO APPEARANCE IN NEW DISNEY MOVIE

HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA -- Walt Disney Studios are confirming that Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder did in fact make an uncredited cameo appearance in "Walt Disney's Christmas Carol," a new 3-D blockbuster movie premiering this weekend, based on the classic Charles Dickens tale of Ebenezer Scrooge’s discovery the true meaning of Christmas.

Fans will have to have to look closely though if they want to catch a glimpse of the infamous owner of the Washington football franchise. Snyder makes his appearance during a scene early in the movie when Scrooge's former business partner, the long deceased Jacob Marley, visits on Christmas Eve to warn Scrooge about the impending arrival of three ghosts.

At one point in the scene, Marley tells Scrooge to look out the window at the thousands of ghosts who have been doomed to wander the earth forever without comfort, satisfaction or rest after because they lost their souls to avarice, greed and contempt for their fellow man. In a stunning close-up, viewers can clearly make out a short and greasy-looking ghost with glasses -- a "dead ringer" for Snyder -- who sneaks up to a poor and tired old widow and says simply, "I'll see you in court."

Snyder is said to have declined Disney's offer to give him a listed film credit, apparently fearing it might limit his future acting aspirations to be typecast as a soulless, greedy and avaricious runt.

Posted by: Vic1 | November 6, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Stop hating on Snyder, he made his money without anyone's "help" "assistance" "guidance"...

It's his business to run the team the way HE SEES IS NECESSARY it is not ya'lls problem.

Noone is telling YA'LL how to do your job right?

You people make me sick, leave Snyder alone. Find something better to do.

Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

FYI, no current player is going to be trade we have a playoff caliber team, good players, what we may do is trade several picks to move up in the draft to get a QB in this coming draft, we will not oppose to trading a first and several lower picks to move up.
We have good running backs good wr's a good fb...Stop crying. Mr. Snyder we are a good team.

Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

"Seriously, does Wayne has such a superior skill set?"

No and hell no.

Wayne and his quarterback (what's that guy's name again)have been in the same system for years.

In fact, you could argue that Wayne had the time to grow in M Harrison's and D Clark's shadow: a luxury not afforded to any present redskin receiver.

A Gonzelez and B Stokley (when he was there) were and are better receivers than Wayne.

P Garcon and the other undrafted slot receiver they now have are dynamite as well.

Wayne has okay speed, size, power, and "go get that ball" skill.

That's why his type of receiver is at a premium in the modern NFL.

That's why I'd take him over Moss.

That's why Mitchell, Kelly and Thomas hold so much promise for the skins.

If we could only get a quarterback like Wayne's with a name we couldn't remember, we'd be fine.

Posted by: MistaMoe | November 6, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

He runs all the routes (including over the middle) and he's a monster after the catch. He's a big play threat every time he touches the ball and he's single-handedly won games for this team over the years.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 10:45 AM |

What about the Seattle playoff game where he quit on two routes and Collins got picked off?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Stop hating on Snyder, he made his money without anyone's "help" "assistance" "guidance"...

It's his business to run the team the way HE SEES IS NECESSARY it is not ya'lls problem.

Noone is telling YA'LL how to do your job right?

You people make me sick, leave Snyder alone. Find something better to do.

Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse


If we make you so sick, why don't you go do something else. "Find something better to do".

No one is forcing you to come up here and read our comments.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

FYI, no current player is going to be trade we have a playoff caliber team, good players, what we may do is trade several picks to move up in the draft to get a QB in this coming draft, we will not oppose to trading a first and several lower picks to move up.
We have good running backs good wr's a good fb...Stop crying. Mr. Snyder we are a good team.

Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse


Look, Mrs. Snyder. We understand that you love your little boy and it's been a tough go for him.

But he put himself in this position. He's a big boy and he needs to learn how to take legit criticism or find another job.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

No one is forcing you to come up here and read our comments.

How do you know? He's incognito, man, there could be someone with a gun trained on him even as we speak.

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

It's his business to run the team the way HE SEES IS NECESSARY it is not ya'lls problem.


Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Several thousand season ticket holders who are bound to 10 year contracts would beg to differ with you, sir.

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 6, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

What about the Seattle playoff game where he quit on two routes and Collins got picked off?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

What about the game in Dallas that he caught 2 tds in the 4th to win the game?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

In fact, given the nature of the comments, I'd say the odds of a hostage situation are quite high.

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

In fact, given the nature of the comments, I'd say the odds of a hostage situation are quite high.

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

He runs all the routes (including over the middle) and he's a monster after the catch. He's a big play threat every time he touches the ball and he's single-handedly won games for this team over the years.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 10:45 AM |

What about the Seattle playoff game where he quit on two routes and Collins got picked off?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse


Really? Is that what happened?

I recall Collins throwing into coverage with his weakling arm and getting picked off b/c his deep ball is like playing "500".

Even if Moss "quit" on the route like you seem to interpret, I'm not sure how that nullifies his larger body of work for the team...

...unless your point is that Moss isn't perfect all the time on every route in every game - you got me there.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

"But George Steinbrenner not only changed, he taught his sons the hardest lesson he ever learned: Don't think of yourself as baseball experts, micro-managers or the men who win the game."

Steinbrenner never changed. He just got too old and decrepit to run the team, so Cashman took over the personnel decision making and straightened things out to the point where, thanks to a lot of $$$, the Yanks are back in the winners circle. The earlier Yankee run from 96-00 was occasioned by Steinbrenner having to give up control of the team for awhile because of the Winfield affair.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

What about the game in Dallas that he caught 2 tds in the 4th to win the game?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 6, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Or the home game against NYG a couple years back when he caught 3TDs and single-handedly destroyed the Gints.

Or the Detroit game last year when he caught a long TD and returned a punt for a TD and spared the Skins blushes.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

FYI, no current player is going to be trade we have a playoff caliber team, good players, what we may do is trade several picks to move up in the draft to get a QB in this coming draft, we will not oppose to trading a first and several lower picks to move up.
We have good running backs good wr's a good fb...Stop crying. Mr. Snyder we are a good team.

Posted by: Incognito00 | November 6, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse


Are you f'ing kidding me?

Posted by: Original_etrod | November 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Snyder thinks he DID learn from Steinbrenner: act like a complete jackass, buy the biggest names, outspend everyone, and wait for the championship trophies to roll in.

Of course, without a hard cap, Steinbrenner spent $218 million on payroll last year -- $50 million more than the #2 team and about $150 million more than the average team. So Snyder's mini-Steinbrenner strategy has been completely retarded -- outspending the rest of the league by pennies compared to Steinbrenner.

Will the uncapped year be Snyder's redemption? No, it won't. He can't really lure in a bunch of pro bowlers. The way NFL contracts are written (and given the short careers), you simply can't buy good young players. Fat Albert is a perfect example -- he's 27. Maybe, maybe he'll be productive for another 3-5 years. Maybe.

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | November 6, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Or the home game against NYG a couple years back when he caught 3TDs and single-handedly destroyed the Gints.

Or the Detroit game last year when he caught a long TD and returned a punt for a TD and spared the Skins blushes.


Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse


Ooooh, my turn. How about that Jacksonville game where he ripped off the game winning TD in overtime!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

No one is forcing you to come up here and read our comments.

How do you know? He's incognito, man, there could be someone with a gun trained on him even as we speak.

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

Good point. Let me revise:

Mr Incognito or Mrs. Snyder or whoever you really are -

If you hate our comments and are posting of your own free will, perhaps you should take your own advice and find something better to do. If we are so pathetic by wasting our time to come up here and post comments, how much more pathetic are you for wasting your time to come up here and post comments about how pathetic we are for posting comments?

If someone is holding a gun to your head, then I take it all back...

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Or the home game against NYG a couple years back when he caught 3TDs and single-handedly destroyed the Gints.

Or the Detroit game last year when he caught a long TD and returned a punt for a TD and spared the Skins blushes.


Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse


Ooooh, my turn. How about that Jacksonville game where he ripped off the game winning TD in overtime!!!

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse


Or the away game in Dallas last year. He didn't score a TD, but roasted them with 8 catches for 145 yards and opened things up for everyone else.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I recall Collins throwing into coverage with his weakling arm and getting picked off b/c his deep ball is like playing "500".

Even if Moss "quit" on the route like you seem to interpret, I'm not sure how that nullifies his larger body of work for the team...

...unless your point is that Moss isn't perfect all the time on every route in every game - you got me there.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:06 AM |

He didn't "throw into coverage". Moss stopped running and when Collins threw it upfield he threw it right into the arms of a surprised DB. Even the commentator called it that way on a replay, which they often times either overlook or ignore. Route-quitting is fairly common among top notch WRs. Burress did it all the time on Manning. WRs as a whole tend to be lazy SOBs.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"On his ESPN 980 radio show this morning, Vinny Cerrato came to Snyder's defense."--REDSKIN INSIDER

---

For those of you who think Cerrato is a complete idiot, I offer those words as evidence to the contrary. If nothing else, he clearly knows to whome he is beholden for continued employment.

Posted by: TheCork | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Route-quitting is fairly common among top notch WRs. Burress did it all the time on Manning. WRs as a whole tend to be lazy SOBs.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse


So then, your point in bringing it up was...

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"On his ESPN 980 radio show this morning, Vinny Cerrato came to Snyder's defense."--REDSKIN INSIDER

---

For those of you who think Cerrato is a complete idiot, I offer those words as evidence to the contrary. If nothing else, he clearly knows to whome he is beholden for continued employment.

Posted by: TheCork | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse


Nice.

Kind of reminds me of Cato Caelin vouching for OJ.

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

"How about this, learn how to utilize BOTH guys?? Crazy...i know....

"Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

EXACTLY! Just like that one team...you know...that team with 2 starting TEs...you know...what's their name?

Oh, I give up.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

psp, are you kidding me, or what regarding utilizing both guys??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

For those of you who think Cerrato is a complete idiot, I offer those words as evidence to the contrary. If nothing else, he clearly knows to whome he is beholden for continued employment.

Posted by: TheCork | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM |

Excellent point. Your posts uncover angles and points of view the rest of us dimwit bloggers would never have thought of. Keep it up my man.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Will the uncapped year be Snyder's redemption?

So, this is the key question for me. TheDan has had a ... different ... way of writing contracts than most of the rest of the league. It has allowed them to accumulate talent -- both middling guys and elite players -- within a salary-cap environment.
The record proves -- or, at least suggests -- a couple of things:
(1) you'd better be pretty good at talent evaluation.
(2) these contacts are virtually untradeable (cap hit for the skins, huge out-year base salaries for the other team = no deal).
(3) you're going to be committed to these guys over the long haul.
(4) Once you take this course of action, it's really hard to get off the train -- you create cap room by enriching and extending contracts.

So, this plan has a couple of 'opportunity costs' that need to be considered:
Depth will always be an issue. You can save money by backfilling with a lot of league-minimum people, which means that some 'reasonably talented' people who want a 'reasonable raise' go play for the 49ers (shout out to D Evans).
If long-term security decreases players motivation to work hard, you have little recourse.
You probably can't afford to switch your offensive or defensive philosophy very quickly (can't churn through a bunch of contracts quickly).

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Greg, name me a successful offense that utilizes 2 TEs to the point that it's worth one being a top-paid player league-wide for his position, and the other being a second round draft selection.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

SNYDER MAKES CAMEO APPEARANCE IN NEW DISNEY MOVIE

HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA -- Walt Disney Studios are confirming that Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder did in fact make an uncredited cameo appearance in "Walt Disney's A Christmas Carol," the new 3-D blockbuster premiering this weekend, based on the classic Charles Dickens tale of Ebenezer Scrooge’s discovery the true meaning of Christmas.

Fans will have to have to look closely though if they want to catch a glimpse of the infamous owner of the Washington football franchise. Snyder makes his appearance during a scene early in the movie when Scrooge's former business partner, the long deceased Jacob Marley, visits on Christmas Eve to warn Scrooge about the impending arrival of three ghosts.

At one point in the scene, Marley tells Scrooge to look out the window at the thousands of ghosts who have been doomed to wander the earth forever without comfort, satisfaction or rest because they lost their souls to avarice, greed and contempt for their fellow man. In a stunning close-up, viewers can clearly make out a short, greasy and toady-looking ghost with glasses -- a "dead ringer" for Snyder -- who sneaks up behind a poor and tired old widow and screams out, "I'll see you in court."

Snyder is said to have declined Disney's offer to give him a listed credit for his appearance in the film, fearing it might limit his future acting aspirations to be typecast as a mean-spirited, soulless, greedy and avaricious runt of a dwarf.


Posted by: Vic1 | November 6, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

Boz starts off with:

"Steinbrenner didn't change so much as he grew."

then later says:

"But George Steinbrenner not only changed, he taught his sons the hardest lesson he ever learned..."

Gotta love a columnist who can manage to contradict his opening statement by the 3rd paragraph!

Posted by: DCNationals | November 6, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

psp, good call, they should just ignore davis completely, and hope he goes away....

they drafted him, now whether that bears fruit is still up in the air....so what options do they have..

1. use him
2. ignore him

you're basically advocating that they ignore him?? really??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Will the uncapped year be Snyder's redemption?

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 11:37 AM |

I don't know. Will it? Say you have a player that you have backloaded a lot of salary $$$ in terms of deferred payment years. If there is no cap in 2010 does this mean you can give the guy (he may even be retired of playing elsehwere) one lump sum payment and write everything off w/o any salary cap hit whatsoever? If this is true it would seem that it would allow Snyder to free up a lot of salary cap space in one fell swoop.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"so what options do they have..

1. use him
2. ignore him"

Or showcase then trade him.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

According to the WaPo, the Ft. Hood shooter's aunt remarked that he is an "avid Redskins fan."

Yikes.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | November 6, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Gotta love a columnist who can manage to contradict his opening statement by the 3rd paragraph!

Posted by: DCNationals | November 6, 2009 11:49 AM |

A lot of us bloggers do it by the next sentence, allbeit in separate posts.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

Greg, name me a successful offense that utilizes 2 TEs to the point that it's worth one being a top-paid player league-wide for his position, and the other being a second round draft selection.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

It's called innovation. How long did teams only use 1 running back before they tried using two? I don't see how having 2 pass catching tight ends is a bad thing. I think in a power run offense you could have basically a 4 WR set. You could have 2 pass catching TEs and 2 burner WRs. I'd love to see Devin Thomas, Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, and Fred Davis on the field at the same time. Think about the ground you could cover with that set. You could have Davis and Cooley stay back to block and launch a devastating run game. You could have Moss and Thomas going deep, Cooley on an intermediate route, and Davis on a shallow route. You would have almost the whole field covered.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

"When we watched those tapes of the Redskins of the early 1980s the other day, they looked much more ancient than a quarter-century old: They looked like historic relics of the mud-and-spittle football of a bygone era, a game of the 1950s when the battle on the field was more important than the image it projected on television."

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2257_The_Last_Old_School_Team.html

Posted by: _Stumped_ | November 6, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Or showcase then trade him.

so what happens when Yoder is your starting TE after someone gets hurt??

was it good that there was no depth/quality behind Samuels??

is it a friggin full moon or something??

you're right, no team utilizes 2 TE's......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

For those of you who think Cerrato is a complete idiot, I offer those words as evidence to the contrary. If nothing else, he clearly knows to whome he is beholden for continued employment.

Posted by: TheCork | November 6, 2009 11:20 AM

You don't have to be a genius to know who signd your check. Actually a complete idiot can still usually read.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | November 6, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

By the way, when you have Chris Cooley on the field, it's a simple truth that the TE behind him will be relatively ignored. Hence Fred Davis not showing anything until Cooley got hurt. Hence Martellus Bennett having a grand total of 9 receptions for 90 yards on the season for Dallas.

Quick, who's the backup TE to Tony Gonzalez? Antonio Gates? Owen Daniels? Dallas Clark?

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

According to the WaPo, the Ft. Hood shooter's aunt remarked that he is an "avid Redskins fan."

Yikes.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | November 6, 2009 11:53 AM |

I saw that too. Do you suppose he ever posted on RI? One report says he used his actual name as his handle when he posted on some web site about how suicide bombers should be considered heros. How dumb is that?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

psp, what were you saying in the pre-season about the Eagles? You too Beantown.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | November 6, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Greg, name me a successful offense that utilizes 2 TEs to the point that it's worth one being a top-paid player league-wide for his position, and the other being a second round draft selection.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Dallas runs a lot of two TE formations with Bennett and Witten. Witten is paid well and Bennett is a second round pick.

I would say their offense is good.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | November 6, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

...just had to share a little light in our team's darkest hour.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | November 6, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

By the way, when you have Chris Cooley on the field, it's a simple truth that the TE behind him will be relatively ignored.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 11:58 AM |

Why draft Davis then? You are wasting a 2nd round pick that you could use on the OL.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"was it good that there was no depth/quality behind Samuels??"

There must be a full moon if you're comparing the importance of a left tackle to a TE.

Of course, this is probably the same thought process that went through Cerrato's mind when he decided a TE was more important than an offensive linemen in the second round of the draft.

Personally, I think we should draft a Punter in the second round of next year's draft. That way, when Hunter Smith gets hurt, at least we know we have a quality backup behind him.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

so psp, you think ignoring davis is smart....wow...good call there...

how did it work out giving portis all the carries the past 3 years...oh yeah thats right, he's worn out, and can't get it done anymore...wouldn't it have been prudent to split the carries so that you get more use out of not only portis, but betts, and rock as well.....nah....nevermind...that makes too much sense...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

"psp, what were you saying in the pre-season about the Eagles? You too Beantown.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Still don't buy them. The only schedule weaker than theirs so far has been ours. The win over the Giants was impressive though.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

"Why draft Davis then?"

Because Cerrato is a moron.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

You could have Davis and Cooley stay back to block and launch a devastating run game. ...

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 11:55 AM |

If that is your plan then draft/trade for/sign a TE that has both blocking and pass catching skills.

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

"Why draft Davis then?"

Because Cerrato is a moron.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:06 PM |

Do you think this computes with Snyder?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"how did it work out giving portis all the carries the past 3 years...oh yeah thats right, he's worn out, and can't get it done anymore...wouldn't it have been prudent to split the carries so that you get more use out of not only portis, but betts, and rock as well.....nah....nevermind...that makes too much sense..."

Yea, while we were at it, we should pull Santana Moss for half the game and let Malcolm Kelly have a(nother) go with the starters. Because that's what smart teams do.

Wait, I've actually seen that suggested on here.

*sigh*

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

lh, awesome man, just awesome, you're SOOOO RIGHT....you called this from jump street.

psp, I didn't compare TE/LT at all, all I'm saying is that he's drafted, and unless you want to cut him outright, ignoring him is galactically stupid...again, how did that work out with giving portis the lions share of the carries?? wouldn't a FRESH cooley in the 4th quarter be an asset?? nah...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

psp, no one is saying that, so what should they do then, just ignore these guys completely??

I'd seriously hate to derail this offensive juggernaut by having another guy to throw the ball to...wtf....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

It isn't too hard to figure out some of the many places where this plan went awry.
-- too many coaches. Even if they ran the same basic system, the tweaks in personnel that any coach would want just aren't possible.
-- too many systems. whoever thought that a WCO, and a new, inexperienced coach to run the WCO, would work without a significant turnover in players and a lot of rebuilding time should be held accountable.
-- too many new players. You gotta let the stew simmer awhile and see how players play together as a team. Some upgrades in talent can be helpful [I think adding Haynesworth put the defense within reach of taking it to the next level], but chasing 'marginally better' talent every year isn't an automatic win.
-- continual investment of draft picks in all areas of the team to get young, cheap talent that can be promoted as older players leave. My real problem with the o-line is that, with Jansen, Samuels, Rabach, and Thomas, we put all of our salary allotment for the o-line into guys that were within 1-2 years of each other. As they've grown old together, their cap numbers have become staggering to cut/trade and there is no real money to get younger talent in. And the minor investments in oline help in the draft have not paid off.

The core question for me is, does the team want to take the possibility of the uncapped year to get off the train? It looks like Thomas and Samuels might force part of the issue. You might go even further -- Snyder doesn't seem to mind giving players cash, so you could buy down out-year base salaries by giving them huge base increases for next year. Cutting players is also possible, but you have to have a replacement in mind.
But the team has to answer a couple of basic questions: do they want to be just another team with the same basic approach to salary, or do they want to use their current approach -- combined with better talent evaluation and long-term commitment to a single offensive and defensive system -- to acheve sustainable competitive advantage? And who is the GM/coach that will select that new long-term philosophy?

Posted by: daggar | November 6, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

"wouldn't a FRESH cooley in the 4th quarter be an asset??"

Not more of an asset than Chris Cooley playing the entire game, which he's done at a pro-bowl level for years.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

From the AP:

[Greg] Blache said he was moved to speak after reading comments made by Hall of Fame running back John Riggins, who called Snyder a “bad guy” whose “heart is dark” in an interview for Showtime’s “Inside the NFL.”
“That’s totally, totally untrue,” Blache said. “And the problem is the fans don’t get to know Mr. Snyder like we do, and so they get an impression of things that are written and things people say.”

Maybe so, but it still strikes me a little odd that 60 year old Coach Blache feels compelled to refer to the 43 year old owner as "Mr Snyder". Does Snyder demand it, or does he command so much respect that his coaches (with the exception of Marty Schottenheimer) must address him by a title of respect rather than his name?

Posted by: Alan4 | November 6, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

yup, psp, always right...how dare I question you....you are all powerful and all knowing...

fresh guys in the 4th quarter, multiple guys not named Moss/Cooley to throw to...what was I thinking...wow...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

Alright, I've filled my Redskins ranting quota for the week. Looking forward to the upset against Atlanta.

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

LOL I think everybody here should read the Steinberg article http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/11/concerning_the_love_for_jack_k.html

to remind ourselves what fatuous dopes we (and our medical reps) can be when we're upset about our football team's record.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 6, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

'Scuse me, that should be 'media reps'

Posted by: Samson151 | November 6, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

One report says he used his actual name as his handle when he posted on some web site about how suicide bombers should be considered heros. How dumb is that?

Posted by: LittleGreenBag | November 6, 2009 11:58 AM |

He used his real name? Yeah that is pretty dumb LGB. He's just asking to get arrested. Except he wasn't. And then he went on a killing spree. Great observation.

Posted by: mack1 | November 6, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

"psp, what were you saying in the pre-season about the Eagles? You too Beantown.

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Still don't buy them. The only schedule weaker than theirs so far has been ours. The win over the Giants was impressive though.

Posted by: psps23


psps, that Eagles win over the Giants was dude to the Giants suffering a complete meltdown the last minute and a half before halftime.

Really, I never seen anything like it. The score went from 16-7 with a like a minute and 30 seconds left in the first half to 30-7 by the time they were headed to the locker room.

COMPLETE choke job from the Giants.

Posted by: RedDMV | November 6, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

"Alright, I've filled my Redskins ranting quota for the week. Looking forward to the upset against Atlanta. Posted by: psps23"

Hope you're right but I notice ESPN says that if you want to beat Matt Ryan, get him on the road, where he's about half as good as in the Georgia Dome.

Posted by: Samson151 | November 6, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

According to the WaPo, the Ft. Hood shooter's aunt remarked that he is an "avid Redskins fan."

Yikes.

Posted by: dmorgan6617 | November 6, 2009 11:53 AM |


Yeah. I thought that was a random remark in the report.

If it's not Bush's fault, it's Snyder's?

WaPo covering all their bases?

Posted by: p1funk | November 6, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

It's not really Matt Ryan I'm worried about. It's more about the hope of the bye week allowing the entire Redskins offense, coaching staff included, to pull their heads out of their...

Posted by: psps23 | November 6, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

psp, no one is saying that, so what should they do then, just ignore these guys completely??

I'd seriously hate to derail this offensive juggernaut by having another guy to throw the ball to...wtf....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

The more important aspect of the 2 tight end set is that it gives you 2 strong sides. You can run with a lead blocker to either side. It may not be as beneficial to the passing game as it is to the running game. Tight ends are still slow so by having 2 of them out there you are taking speed off the field. If I went with 2 tight ends in the passing game I would defintely have to fast Wrs out there. It would be Moss, Thomas, Cooley, and Davis.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | November 6, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

BEAT ATLANTA. ONE GAME AT AT TIME.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | November 6, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

BEEPS

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | November 6, 2009 12:43 PM | Report abuse

There is zero trade value in either Cooley or sleepy Davis. Cooley's contract is too prohibitive and you can't trade a 2008 2nd rd pick for a 4th (@ best). In fact there is very little by the way of trade worthy commodities on this team. This is a terrible roster with bloated contracts assembled by an absolute idiot. For the life of me you would think that with Vinny's bug eyes that he does nothing but study film, however we all know that not be true.

Posted by: Diesel44 | November 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

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