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Who They Are, And Where They Are Going

In an attempt to get a handle on the reality of who the Redskins are and where they need to go, following up on Coach Joe's somewhat meandering line of thinking from Monday's presser, see if this makes sense.

So the Redskins go 6-10, then 10-6 and now they are 3-7, and headed to, gulp, who knows how many wins. Okay, so let's throw out their longest winning streak- 5 games to make the playoffs in 2005 - and longest losing streak (4 games early in 2004), and what are you left with?

A 14-19 team.

Welcome back to Spurrier Country, folks. And you thought it was safe to come back to FedEx Field.

To me, that's the tale of the tape. They are probably not as bad as that four-game losing streak (they never topped 18 points and lost to very bad Baltimore, Cleveland, Dallas and NYG teams), and probably not as good as that five-game dance with destiny late last season.

Besides that five-game run, the Redskins have just one winning streak over two games, the three straight Ws to open 2005 (including the last-minute wins over Dallas and Seattle). They do, however, have stretches in all three seasons where they have gone 2-6 over an eight-game period. To me, that's as telling as anything about the long road ahead for Coach Joe.

Randoms: For those of you keeping score at home, the Redskins are now 39-51 in seasons in which Vinny Cerrato has had an influence in the front office (excluding 1999, when the roster was set before The Snyder took over, and 2001, the Martyball year when Vinny was banished to ESPNews ...

Watched Antonio Pierce recover a fumble in the end zone to keep the Giants in the game last night. And Walt Harris leads the NFL with six INT's, twice as many as the entire Redskins roster. A few players were chatting while stretching Monday working out indoors, when one veteran said of Harris, "They said he couldn't play, but look who's leading the league in picks, and he's got some force fumbles and he's making tackles, too. Walt is ballin'" .. Oh year, and Ryan Clark had like two recovered fumbles, including a game-saving pounce, for Pittsburgh against New Orleans a few weeks back.

By Jason La Canfora  |  November 21, 2006; 8:00 AM ET
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Monday Morning H-Back
Next: The Skins Flunk Economics


Someone please tell me why Vinny has a blog?

Washington stinkfence need some major help.

Posted by: John From Herndon | November 20, 2006 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Good points JLC - It's depressing because it's very hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel right now. It seems like last year was a flash in the pan and this is now the beginning of another era of bad football in DC. Very depressing. I love Campbell, but it looks like he's going to be playing for a bad team, at least until we can bring in some defensive players that have an attitude!! Boy, Jacksonville is really playing with a fire in their belly tonight, it's been a long time since I've seen the skins play like that!!

Posted by: Max | November 20, 2006 10:52 PM | Report abuse

3 medium pizza's for $5 each?!!! wow! what a deal!

doesn't it seem like the players on skins' D is getting fed up by the coaching staff (gregg williams, dale lindsey and boys)?

Posted by: dealer | November 20, 2006 11:21 PM | Report abuse

and heard portis on his JT's show and that boy does NOT like saunder's scheme and playcalling.

all you guys should get it if you didn't have a chance to hear it. it's very revealing. imho. no way saunders is back next year.

Posted by: dealer | November 20, 2006 11:23 PM | Report abuse


Joe has really lost it hasn't he. This team stinks and has nothing going for it right now except a decent NFL start for JC. We have no draft picks, NO GM, no one who can say NO Joe this player is not going to work. We need to keep our picks and build a team, not try to buy one by overpaying other teams players and letting our "core Redskins" go to other teams....

Any chance at all that Joe will get a REAL GM and get rid of Vinny? I know that Joe is super smart, works super hard, and coaches his guts out, but can't he see this approach to free agents and the draft has failed in the worst way.....

Joe please change the front office structure and your approach or YOU WILL CONTINUE TO HURT THE FANS YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT that overpay for this sad excuse of a team.

This sucks.

Posted by: 229 | November 20, 2006 11:25 PM | Report abuse


Can you please ask JG how he can expect to hold players accountable when Ceratto is still around and Pierce isn't? Can you also ask him if he believes that it is "super smart" to pay Arch Deluxe TEN times what they would have paid Ryan Clark? He seems to think that it is ok to pay a player 10 mil to be the protector on punts. Can you also ask him how they plan to build a team now that the cap is so high, teams are able to easily keep their own players? Also, ask Gibbs what JC has to do to go into next year as the starter. My guess was to win 6 out of 7. Now I'm not even sure that will do. Gibbs did not come back to grow with a young QB. The only question is who will JC be replaced by, Plummer or Leftwich? I can't wait till one of those guys is signed to a 7 year contract. Gibbs will go on about how JC is still the future and how it will help him so much to go back to the bench and learn from Jake who is super smart.

I don't know about now, but these sound like they would be great questions for the year in review press conference...

Please, please, please write an article soon about Ceratto. That guy needs to be exposed for the sham he is. He needs to get an opinion, or get out. It is obvious that he is simply letting a set of coaches with no talent for evaluation, pick their own players. Sad. So sad that Freeney and Clements and Jake Plummer can't even save us.

Posted by: TB | November 20, 2006 11:26 PM | Report abuse

A lot has been written about the players and the coaching staff. but can anyone from the Post do a piece on the influences of people like Snyder and Cerrato? I know Snyder is supposed to be "hands-off" now but I don't buy that.

I find it remarkable that the Redskins have had two successful, exciting season in the past decade or so, where they went 10-6 and reached the second round of the playoffs, but couldn't follow up either season with any success whatsoever. The offseasons that followed each produced significant free agent signings (previously it was Sanders, George, B Smith, etc and we know last offseason's signings), which were supposed to be the final ingredients to transform a good team to Superbowl greatness.

Apparently that formula for success is invalid.

Posted by: Johnnie Futbol | November 20, 2006 11:34 PM | Report abuse

ummmmmm garrard is good.

Posted by: dealer | November 20, 2006 11:35 PM | Report abuse

woah there. Lets not get ahead of ourselves with this Walt Harris talk. The guy was awful last year, just plan awful. He makes Deion Sanders look like Ronnie Lott in terms of tackling. I'm all for pointing out mistakes in letting people go (clark, pierce) but Harris had to go, plan and simple. Maybe he's got so many picks because teams love throwing at him.

Posted by: Jake | November 20, 2006 11:46 PM | Report abuse

Walt was very bad last season, but name me a DB who looks good in the Redskins scheme this season?
I'm also pointing out what was being by said Redskins players, not me. Notice the quote marks.
Walt was held in very high regard by his teammates, and if you think Kenny Wright has been an upgrade - the player signed to replace him - you must be on Vinny's payroll.
Six picks in 10 games is no fluke. Two weeks with multiple picks is no fluke. Seems to me like Mike Nolan is maxing out his talent. You might remember him - former Skins coordinator run out of town by The Snyder for using a "vanilla" scheme.

Posted by: Jason La Canfora | November 21, 2006 12:10 AM | Report abuse

I wish Gibbs would be straight forward to the fans and let us know why they made Arch Deluxe the highest paid 3rd string safety / special teams captain in NFL history. It truly hurts me to watch his pressers and hear the same old line. JLC I wish Arch would have told you his side of the story so we could get some kind of understanding from this debacle.

I am still holding out hope that Gibbs will stand up, and fight his guts out to turn this thing around. He is super smart, super nice, and a super person. Just hope he can again be a Super Bowl champion.

Posted by: JMoney | November 21, 2006 12:25 AM | Report abuse

Wow, Andre "Dirty" Waters, dead at 44 from a self-inflicted gunshot to the head.

I used to hate that guy when he was playing for the Eagles in the 80s. I think he might have been responsible for some of the damage in the Body Bag Game.

And Vinnybingus bites. Nice record.

The problem we have here is that as a business, the Skins are pretty successful in terms of profit. I hate to say it, but that seems to trump what the final season record is as long as the dollars keep rolling in.

And Jason, Reading 2 Charlton 0, Hahnemann with a clean sheet and the Royals at #8 in the EPL. I'm taking them on as my surrogate "football" team since the Skins keep losing.

That's all for now, night night. P Diddy should be breaking for siesta in a few hours -- give us a shout from the Old World....

Posted by: Ali Haji Shank | November 21, 2006 1:37 AM | Report abuse

In the press conference yesterday, it sounded like you came close to mentioning that the blogosphere needed to hear Gibbs say Campbell would be the QB of the future. Is the blogosphere inpinging on your reporterly mindset?

Posted by: LWC | November 21, 2006 2:43 AM | Report abuse

Campbell had Brunell-like numbers. His last drive with the game out of reach padded his stats. Otherwise it was 6 yards an attempt. Over half of passes completed and no INTs. Typical Brunell. Except this is a guy in game 1 of his career with 2 years of rust. Except that one pass that Lloyd dropped. Except that he made some plays with his legs. Brunell and Campbell are at about even playing levels. But they are headed in opposite directions. It could get ugly this week. Steve Smith against the Skins secondary and a d-line that got 7 sacks last week playing a QB in game 2 of his pro career. JC goes to serious school this week.

Posted by: AL | November 21, 2006 3:58 AM | Report abuse


What is up with Macintosh? Please tell me they are grooming him for middle linebacker. That would explain why it is taking him so long and it would solve the problems that Marshall and Holdman have been this year - moving Marshall back to weak side. Why is this defense so bad? Did everyone get old since last year? As good as they were in 2004, they are equally bad this year. As bad as the offense has been. I've gotten use to it expecting that when they get leads, especially in the 2nd half, that they hold them - especially against mediocre/bad teams (Vikings, Titans, Bucs) Yes, the Redskins could be 2-8 or 1-9 if they lose the coin toss to Jax, but with any semblance of a defense they could have been 5-5. Is it the end for Grilliams?

Posted by: bangkokben | November 21, 2006 4:50 AM | Report abuse

coaching, management, coaching, management...
Lets see, bad free agent signings, players performing beyond expectations AFTER they leave here, first round picks that don't get playing time, and lastly veteran players who can't remember their assignments and have forgotten fundamentals.
Did I miss anything? is there any reason to conclude anything other then coaching and management?
Jason/Washington Post, the power of the pen can help to make some of these changes, need to write more about coaching and management!

Posted by: jt | November 21, 2006 6:51 AM | Report abuse

Not sure if anyone remembers but a couple of weeks ago I said the players are no longer playing for double G. And from the statement you got from the players JLC it seems that my statement was right. And if Coach Joe brings in another QB and send Campbell back to the bench. Then I am done with him.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 7:19 AM | Report abuse

Harris; just like Archuleta, Wright, and Rumph; are not the right kind of player for Williams system. Why they could figure that out with him and not those others players is beyond me

Posted by: | November 21, 2006 7:38 AM | Report abuse

...its poor coaching and poor management!

Posted by: jt | November 21, 2006 7:55 AM | Report abuse

Why are the fans blaming Archuleta for this mess? Is it his fault if someone decided to pay him big bucks for mediocre service? If someone came to you and offered you so many millions to do a job you are marginally qualified for, how many of us won't do what Archuleta did: collect the money and hope to God everything works out. If a big FA signing fails in his very first year, I have to think it's the coaches/scouts fault. After all they can't claim not to have seen film on the guy. This is why you draft instead. At least a draft bust won't cost you millions.

Posted by: Bart | November 21, 2006 8:27 AM | Report abuse

As much as I dislike Czabin, maybe he has a point by asking some pointed questions, even if they may be obnoxious. How about this: "Coach Gibbs, since you want to hold players accountable, how about some of the people who have made some personnel decisions that have not turned out so well?"

Posted by: Rich from Salisbury | November 21, 2006 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Last night I woke up in a deep sweat screaming "SUPER SUPPORTIVE?????????"

I still can't get over that press conference yesterday. What a joke.

Today I am putting the remainder of my tickets on ebay. I also have been thinking about whether or not I will renew next season.

Here is what I came up with.... let me know if I make any sense here.

Having season tickets means that I am forced to buy 2 preseason games and 2 parking passes for a total of $450 (for me anyway). That's back in my pocket.

Now, to be fair, having season tickets also guarantees me tickets to all home games. But guess what, tickets are about as easy as a hooker in Vegas. Even when the Skins were making their playoff push last year you saw EMPTY seats everywhere. You saw scalpers selling tickets for less than face value. So if I don't renew, NOW I just go to the games I want to go to and save about a grand on the 4 meaningless games I'm trying to unload now.

Oh, but having season tickets will guarantee me playoff tickets, right? Come on... one home playoff game in 15 years and a team that is complete and udder shambles... I think I might go ahead and take my chances.

And heck, in 10 years when the Skins have a home playoff game again I'll have about 20 grand saved up (probably 30 after Snyder continues to raise tickets after repeated 4-12 seasons)... I'm sure I'll be able to afford a ticket on ebay.

What do you guys think? Can we forward this to Dan Snyder?

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Because I now live out of the DC area I no longer have access to the TV or news shows where they talk to players and coaches live. From what is being reported and what I can see for myself on the televised games, it does appear that all the high priced coaching is not getting the players to play good basic football. The defense cannot wrap up a tackle; the offense (particularly the Oline) does not block well for the pass or run and is not getting betterl only worse.

Watching the last game - the Tampa TD pass that put the game away - it apparent that Carlos Rodgers has completely lost any desire. He was two or three steps behind the receiver and made no effort to get closer, just jogging after him over the course of 20 yards. That is the type of defensive effort that shows throughout the team. Linebackers come strolling up after the play is over; defensive linemen take one block and stay right where they are; defensive backs hit high and ride ballcarriers for five to seven yards as they make first downs. That game could have been won if the defense had made half an effort - they made no effort at all. Despite their self effacing remarks after the game; they know they are not putting out the effort necessary to stop anyone.

Offensively the line blocking is really bad; particularly the pass blocking.

Maybe everyone is right about the lack of a good general manager. I remember during the first Gibbs era that Beathard found a number of very low round draft choices (the draft went a lot longer then) that turned into a very good offensive line. Names like Jacoby; Grim; May, etc.

In general, I am totally shocked by this teams lack of desire. Gibbs was losing his first year as coach and totally changed his offensive approach mid-season to fit his personnel. Even during the losses you could tell that the team was trying hard in all aspects of the game. That is not happening now. You can tell that the effort is not there. Olinemen watch a blitzer run by them and clap their hands in frustration (really). I'm supprised that we only have one starter out with a broken hand with all the Oline clapping so much.

There is nothing about this team that looks adequate at the moment so it appears that the rest of this year will be rife with frustration. We fans need to suck it up and watch our guts out.

Posted by: oldskinsfan | November 21, 2006 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I'm glad for Walt Harris. Seems like he's fitting Mike Nolan's scheme. Let's not a sinner a saint though.

Mike Nolan's scheme wasn't so great last year and I watched Harris play last year in this scheme, he was horrible. Clearly he was better than Wright or Rogers this year for that matter. But int's are a funny thing. What changed in Cinci's scheme this year from last?

Posted by: Skinz | November 21, 2006 8:50 AM | Report abuse

make a sinner a saint.

Posted by: Skinz | November 21, 2006 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I meekly raise my hand as having had tickets for what seems to be one of the worst 10 year runs in my lifetime (I am 40). I am really holding out hope that they will eventually get better so my son can enjoy the Skins as much as I did when I was young.

Damn, just thinking of this makes me angry.

But the bottom line is that as long as the team is making $$$$$ nothing will change.

Posted by: What has he done to my team? | November 21, 2006 8:52 AM | Report abuse

So it's agreed. Round up the pitchforks and torches and head on over to Vinny's house. I'm sure everyone agrees that when you're a die hard fan it almost physically hurts to see things go down the toilet this way. I don't like Czabin, but let's take the gloves off. Ask these people real, hard, questions. This is worse than talking to a politician. The last thing we should do is change offensive coaches. That would be coordinator #7 for JC and if you think we suck now, wait until the playbook changes again. I'm fine with letting Williams go, although I have the sinking feeling he's the next head coach.

Posted by: tampadave | November 21, 2006 8:58 AM | Report abuse

Ricky, the presser wasn't unusual. We all know he never gives any big news at these things, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

I thought there were a couple interesting things: (1) he defined the identity of the Redskins, something Brunell and other had a hard time with a few weeks back, and (2) he mentioned that he was going to take inventory of the defense. That surprised me because I was under the impression that the genius had sole responsibility of that. Perhpas Gibbs is going to rein in some of Grill's authority/ego.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 8:59 AM | Report abuse

A conspiracy theory: The coaches, especially Greg Williams, want to be fired. If they are fired, they can pocket the balance of their super high contracts and either go coach elsewhere or enjoy themselves. I think Williams wants to be a head coach and may have something lined up already. They won't pay him what Snyder is but if he is fired he can be a head coach and Snyder will have to pay the difference.

Posted by: JGG | November 21, 2006 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"Elegy to a Season Lost"

O, memories of the Spring,
Flushed with Green to make a King,
Wilt as Autumn colors fade.
Our dreams chilled by debts unpaid.

Burgundy fire, golden heat
Dwindle after agents meet.
Braggarts expouse lofty goals,
Yet aged souls fill young roles.

Haunted by a glorious past,
Disappointment came so fast.
Men of March fight their guts out,
Winter Pansies bloom with routs.

Draft blows low for Men of Gold,
Future dross for Saint of Old.
An Auburn Hope may grow bright,
Will frentic Spring kill the light?

Posted by: HaikuMan | November 21, 2006 9:04 AM | Report abuse

This whole thing with Adam BLOWS away any credibility that G. Williams had. I'm sorry, but how many yards did they give up to Philly, and to Tampa? WITHOUT Adam in the lineup, so CLEARLY, blaming him is not the answer. His defense has been LOUSY all year long, and what has he done? ZIP, ZERO. How many guys have lost their starting jobs? ONE, and he wasn't the problem. What about HOLDMAN?? What about Marshall? What about Burnt Toast, I mean, Rogers? Sorry to vent, but the defense has had problems all year long, and G. Williams hasn't made ONE ADJUSTMENT, not one. How much worse could Rocky-Mac be? How much worse could McCune be? We got exposed in the Pre-Season, and NOTHING HAS CHANGED. G-Williams, and his refusal to adjust his defense to the PLAYERS HE WANTED, is the reason this season is down the drain.

(Steps off soapbox)

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | November 21, 2006 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Blog love warms my heart,
Missed all when I was away!
Prior post pays debt.

Posted by: HaikuMan | November 21, 2006 9:08 AM | Report abuse

I'm always baffled by this conpiracy theory that the Redskins just want to make money and as long as they do that, they won't care about winning. I think you could not possibly hold this view if you watch, read, or listen to anything remotely related to Redskins news. It's patently absurd. A few thoughts:

1. All businesses try to make money. Don't be shocked the Redskins try to maximize profits.
2. Snyder knows that if you can make money selling tix & merchandise for a losing team, you can make MUCH more money doing so with a winning team.
3. If the Redskins weren't trying to win, they wouldn't max out their payroll and pay top-dollar for coaches. Cheap owners (like the Bidwells) minimize their costs.

Do the Redskins make all the right moves? Obviously not. But there is no rational reason to conclude that Snyder does not want a winner. In fact, I can guarantee you he has more reasons to want a winner than you do.

Conspiracy theorists get JM smacks to the back of the head.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 9:12 AM | Report abuse

Haikuman with a strong showing to start the blog day. Very well done, my man.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 9:15 AM | Report abuse


Nice work. Welcome back.

The inconsistent ideologies blow my mind away. In the offseason, these guys are scurrying around on Skins One scooping up mediocre FA's at inflated cost to plug holes they think need improving. Then, in the midst of a losing season, a la Holdman/D-line/S. Taylor, they hesitate to pull the trigger to make a change. They are (Al Pacino in Devils Advocate rant) "A kid with an ANT FARM!!!". They flip the thing upside down every offseason and watch it with impunity for 16 weeks. I personally feel extremely lucky we saw Jason and Troy when we did, but those changes aren't going to cut it. You have to make people accountable, from top to bottom.

JC on Sunday against a real D:

13-31 1 TD 3 INT

Julius Peppers: 2 sacks, 4 hurries, 4 tackles

Panthers 31
Redskins 17

Posted by: Pub Golf | November 21, 2006 9:27 AM | Report abuse

It continues to blow my mind that some of you expected Gibbs to say something "mind blowing" in his presser. Ain't gonna happen. If he does something out of the ordinary, it will come out another way - not during the presser.

I realize that we have nothing to be positive about but this negativity about EVERYTHING is bringing me down even further. Let's face it....losing Clark (and Pierce before him) hurt but other teams let valuable players go as well. The Skins are not the only ones. And who would have a clue that Walt Harris would leave the Skins and become a phenom in SF?

Posted by: Lisa | November 21, 2006 9:28 AM | Report abuse

Conspiracy theorists get JM smacks to the back of the head.

Joe in Raleigh that one made my day. But like I said last night. I have to give myself one for believing that Coach Joe was going to say something big.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Are you kidding me? Read Carlos Roger's quote.

"Going against the fastest guy in the league and running [cover-0] and you don't get there [with the blitz], there's nothing you can do about it," Rogers said. "The only thing I can do is line up and play the call that's being made and try to execute to the best of my ability. He's a fast guy, and there ain't too much I can do."

I want to emphasize 'there's nothing you can do about it.' How about covering the guy like the 9th pick overall, shutdown corner!!! Do you think Sean Springs or Sam Madison or Champ Baily would of said that!! Sounds like a defeated soul.


Posted by: John From Herndon | November 21, 2006 9:59 AM | Report abuse

On defense they are all playing like individuals not communicating, not working together. There is no chemistry with this team. These backups have earned starting roles because of guys leaving and if they stink up the joint there is no one coming in to take their place because they are it. Also, They can't tackle. Can we go back to learning the fundamentals?

Same with offense. They are still learning a new offense. They aren't going to figure it out in one year according to Todd Collins. Plus there are talented individuals on offense who are not playing as a team.

Who is to blame for that. They were too soft on them at training camp and it shows because it was all about getting these new guys comfortable and they got too comfortable.

Next year they better crack the whip in practice and make them work.

Posted by: calebt17 | November 21, 2006 10:06 AM | Report abuse


I understand what you're saying. I know it's a business and that money is the name of the game...

BUT at what point does it go completely over the top? When does it become okay to turn a 50 million profit (or whatever it is) into a 52 million profit at the expense of your loyal fans?

I've been to countless road games and it's night and day. Did Snyder get to choose where the stadium is? No, but he can control attempting to charge people to walk into the stadium lots, he can control the stip searches at the gates to find an airplane bag of peanuts, he can control the number of bathrooms and amenities.

I've been to 3 Skins-Giants games at Giants Stadium... didn't pay to park and had the same walk as I do from the blue lot, no one tried to charge me to walk onto the stadium grounds like Snyder tried to do, we walked into the stadium with 3 sandwiches, chips, bottles of water, etc when again, you can't even get a bag of peanuts into FedEx, I sat in better seats than I do at FedEx for less money, and even was able to go to the bathroom during halftime without missing the entire 3rd quarter.

Aren't the Giants trying to make money? Of course... and they do make a lot of it. But they also don't string their loyal fans up and attempt to squeeze them dry...

What about the obstructed view seats? What about not having a decent jumbotron so he can squeeze a couple more loge seats in there? That is greed, my friend.

These fans are too loyal and he knows it... so he tries to take advantage.

Again, greed.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 10:09 AM | Report abuse


That quote from Carlos makes me sick. It doesn't surprise me, but it makes me sick. I HATE HIM.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 10:10 AM | Report abuse

OK. OK. OK. Walt Harris? The guy got burnt so many times last year we shoulda called him toast. And he probably couldnt have tackled a high school RB last year.

I'm all for looking at Cerrato and the Skins decisions critically, but you dont reward someone who is playing badly by giving them more $.

Pierce, Smoot - debatable decisions. (BTW, shoulda kept Pierce, Smoot is still overrrated and overpaid)

But Walt Harris? There werent many of you out there arguing to keep the guy.

Posted by: the cheat | November 21, 2006 10:10 AM | Report abuse


If I knew that we would only have enough money to sign Kenny Wright and trade for Mike Rumph, I absolutely would have endorsed keeping a guy who helped us make the playoffs last year...

But I guess for the Skins it was more important throwing 120 mill at a 2nd WR, a 3rd WR/PR, a DE who can't pressure the QB, and a PERSONAL PUNT PROTECTOR/3rd string Safety, who by the way makes more money than Ed Reed...

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 10:17 AM | Report abuse

*yawn* I don't know why all of you are so upset. We don't look so bad, it's just preseason after all....wait a second....Oops, uhhhhm, never mind.

Posted by: Megskin | November 21, 2006 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I don't understand the concept of blaming AA for the way the defense is? He didn't play versus Philly and TB, how did that work out? They both still rushed for over 100 yards on us, and passed at will. Is it his fault that Williams is making him the scapegoat because the defensive system has been caught up to by the NFL?? Can someone explain this to me?

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | November 21, 2006 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Maybe it's just me, but who else would like to slap that grin off Al Saunders face when he interviews with Kelli Johnson every week?

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 10:34 AM | Report abuse

OK, here it is: The Skins front office must resist the urge to hire more coaches this off season and let the schemes jell for more than one year. We must resist the can't miss free agent who will cost us our future and millions in cash/cap space. We need to retire Grand Pa Joe to executive president of football affairs, aka letting the old man save face on his way back to NASCAR. And finally, we must pick between Grilliams and Big Al to be head coach and put the light on him. Whether Campbell plays well or not, we need a vet back up of the Gus Ferrote or Jake Plummer(Who will be available this spring) variety to tide us over until we decide if J-Cam can ball or not.

Posted by: Bob-Ashburn, VA. | November 21, 2006 10:45 AM | Report abuse

RB, I don't disagree. FedEx is not the most fan-friendly venue. It's hard to get to and when you finally do, it's nothing special.

The thing that bugs me the most is the amount of advertising everywhere. Everything has been sold, even the Funky Four! You can't look anywhere in that stadium without a sign trying to sell you some product you don't want.

That said, just because Snyder is making money does not mean that he doesn't want to win. One doesn't follow the other. In fact, it's just the opposite. When the team wins, he'll make more money because I'm more inclined to buy Redskins gear, chicken, pizza, or whatever the Funky Four is supposed to be selling me.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 10:48 AM | Report abuse

No need to hate Carlos for that statement. The kid is just realistic. He knows he doesn't have the speed of an NFL corner. We saw him get flat out beat in footraces as a rook, saw the deep help and blitz save his rear a few times. After an offseason of film study the opposition saw it too and now it happens routinely, hence the reason he plays 10 yards off the line so much on 3rd and short. The only reason to be frustrated with him is if you think he can actually do better in the future, he won't because he isn't physically capable. Just hope the D staff is willing to admit their mistake and move him to S. Not that I expect that either. Ego is definitely a problem at Redskins park.

Posted by: cm202bc | November 21, 2006 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Remember when Al Saunders was running around on the practice field and we loved him? Yeah, that was only like 12 weeks ago. Things change, man.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Carlos Rodgers Neighborhood,

it's a beautiful day in this neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a football game.
Would you score 6?
Could you score 6?...

It's a neighborly day on this football field,
A neighborly day for a touchdown.
Williams, would you please blitz?
Boy he sure runs fast!...

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you Galloway.
I've always wanted to give up a touchdown with you.

So, let's make the most of this beautiful day.
Since we're together we might as well say:
Would you score 6?
Could you score 6?
Won't you score 6?
Won't you please?
Could you please?
Please won't you score 6 on me?

Posted by: | November 21, 2006 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Gwilligan takes all the credit when the defense is working well. However, he creates scapegoats when the defense is playing bad. Last year it was Arrington, this year it's archie. Once archie is gone, grilligan will convince Snyder to spend another 30 million for another good scapegoat. Hey, we keep drafting defensive players in the draft but the defense continues to get worse. How many draft picks are we going to waste on our defense before we determine it's the coaching not the players. Grilligan praised arrington when he came to the skins, then benched him. He praised archuletta, then benched him. He had high praises for McIntosh: "The best player he's ever seen at getting off blocks," and then he benched him. So, it appears to me that Grilligan doesn't know what the hell he's talking about!!

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Meanwhile, Holdman is the worst outside linebacker I've ever seen!! He can't get off blocks, he can't tackle, and he's slow as mollasses. I think it's time to send some messages, and start cutting players who aren't giving 100% effort in the games. We the fans pay for 100% effort, and we are getting ripped off with anything less. We will not stand for this and neither should the coaches.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 10:55 AM | Report abuse

But the good news, Max, is that we only have to pay him $1M to NOT be our next head coach.

Hilarious. Whoever thought up that deal has a GREAT sense of humor.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Max, I can't agree with you more. How about some personal accountability from Williams. He took the credit when we were good, he needs to take the heat when we're lousy. Right now we're lousy, he needs to take the hint from Joe, and start his press conferences with, "it starts with me".
His blitz's this year, SUCK. We don't stunt, we're as predictable as can be. Third down, have Marcus rush from the left side. Guys are tuning him out. He needs to go.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | November 21, 2006 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Also, Grilligan has said on more than one occassion that the Middle Linebacker plays the roll of QB on Defense. Well, who in their right mind would let go the quarterback of their defense when they are a top 5 defense (A. Pierce)? That would be like the Colts letting Peyton Manning go. I get more frustrated about losing Pierce, Smoot and R. Clark the more I think about it, but mostly Pierce. He really had a nack for putting people in the right positions.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 11:03 AM | Report abuse

We need a true middle linebacker damn it!!

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Williams is still a good coach despite what has happened this year. He is just a horrible person at picking out players. It all comes back to the same problem NO GM. Gibbs is a great coach, Williams is a great defensive coach, Saunders is a great offensive mind. The problem is these guys think they can pick the players out to run their systems. They OVERrate themselves like everyone in America does. They would not be good coachs if they did not think they could do it all. That is why a team needs a GM.

Look at the Seahawks. Their coach used to be GM and they lost often. Well he decides to step down from the GM spot to start coaching and look at them now.

This is the best group of coaches in the league IMO. They just SUCK at being GM's. Which is to be expected.

The Skins need a GM. They have needed one for a decade. When you let the coach pick out the player they get too emotionally involved in the player. They want him to do well so the coach will be RIGHT. When a GM picks out the player the coach has no problems benching them. Brunell is a good example. Holdmen an even better example. That is Williams guy that he took from nowhere to become a starter in the NFL. He will never bench him because he wants to be right and he beleives it. If Holdmen were picked by a GM there is no way he is even on this team anymore.

Posted by: | November 21, 2006 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Ricky Bobby,

Hey, no arguments here that Wright or Rumph arent an upgrade on Harris. But I wasnt arguing that point.

To blame all the D problems (and thus many of the franchises problems) on a guy like Harris leaving is crap.

Sure, GWilliams defenses' were good the past few seasons cause he got undersized/let go/forgotten/cast aside players to step up (read: Clark, Pierson, Pierce), but Harris simply didnt have that great a year, and his tackle numbers were high (in the 40s) cause the dude was constanly getting thrown at.

As a nickel, I'd take Pierson over Harris any day of the week. And I still think Rogers will be a good DB some day.

Posted by: the cheat | November 21, 2006 11:13 AM | Report abuse

Having spent many years in the military and big business, I have learned that any organization is only as good as the leadership, which starts at the very top. Until Dan Snyder learns how to manage his football operations, the Redskins will have problems. Look at what Peter Angelos has done to the Orioles. I believe that Snyder really wants a successful team, but he does not know how to get there, yet. Let's hope he learns.

Posted by: Mark | November 21, 2006 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Brian: Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

Reg: F*#K off! We're the People's Front of Judea

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Report abuse

At least ArchDeluxe is personal protecting his guts out

Posted by: 4-12 | November 21, 2006 11:19 AM | Report abuse

When St. Joe was rambling on about finding out who the Skins are I was waiting for him to pull a Denny Green and start punching the microphone.

Posted by: David | November 21, 2006 11:20 AM | Report abuse

The problem with the redskins is more than meets the eye. I don't think the players believe in the coaching staff and their schemes anymore. The defense is defiantly trying to get Grilliams fired. When a team doesn't play with intensity, effort, or the basic fundamentals it means they don't buy into the system anymore. I would be very surprised if Grilliams is still here next season.

I believe he is a good coach when it comes to x's and o's but his drill sergeant act has ran it's course with the players and they are no longer willing to play for him. Gibbs said he spoke to some players yesterday and I'll bet it came up that the defensive side of the ball has stopped playing for Grilliams. You can tell from JLC's article this morning that they are calling the coaches out publicly.

Does anyone remember the first defensive series in pre-season? They played with the intensity we've come to expect from that unit but these days they are just mailing it in. With any semblance of defense this team could have been at least 5-5 with a shot at the playoffs. By the end of the season, the extra G in Gregg will stand for "Gone".

Honestly, the offense is going through the growing pains of a new scheme and they'll be fine by next season if Snyder doesn't throw Al Saunders and his 700 page playbook out of Redskins Park and start over again with another offensive "genius".

Posted by: Ejaylala | November 21, 2006 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Joe in Raleigh you make some good points my friend, however in the spirit of the utmost respect I must disagree.

It's very, very far from being a conspiracy theory to consider that an owner may be in it for whatever money he can make. We need to face that we are paying for a substandard product whose owner is more than happy to take our money in the meantime and make a profit regardless of whether he wants to win or lose.

Will he make more if we win? Sure. But guess what? He doesn't have to win to make money.

That's a cold, hard fact. Not a conspiracy theory.

If I am missing your point (very possible), let me know.

Posted by: Ali Haji Shank | November 21, 2006 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Each and every week the players are evaluated and graded. They are put under the microscope and dissected by the media, fans and coaching staff. If Joe Gibbs really wants to respect and understand the fan base, then do two simpel things: take leadership of the team and put team management under the same scrutiny as the players. It does not take "super smarts" to draw up a proven offensive game plan for Campbell that would feature hard running by a number of backs: Duckett; Betts; Cartwright; and Sellers. Work the tight ends into the middle of the field and then look at deep play action passes. The next part is simple: if Gibbs is the "CEO," and the gameplans and playcalling continue to fail, then fire the playcaller and take control if necessary. Borrow one of Billick's tricks.

The hyprocrisy of holding players accountable and not submitting management to the same standard will become hollow and will tarnish reputations. Snyder and Cerrato are to the Skins what Aneglos has been to the Orioles.

Posted by: SufferinSkinFan | November 21, 2006 11:39 AM | Report abuse

NFL players almost always call the coaches out (or hint to that effect) when things are not going well so our guys are no different. Remember Jeremy Shockey and Tiki Barber? Even one guy (can't remember his name) from the Pats a few weeks ago.

Posted by: Lisa | November 21, 2006 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Jake Plummer(Who will be available this spring) variety

I can't believe you just said that. He's the reason Denver hasn't won a Super Bowl out there the last few years; he's the same as Boonell is now, only better at faking it. Complete and utter liability.

Gibbs should be sent to an old folks home and heavily sedated if he even thinks of bringing him in here. Never, ever, ever mention the 'P' name again.

Posted by: Megskin | November 21, 2006 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Joe in Raliegh- Your comments on making money miss the mark. Snyder is okay with paying coaches large sums of money because he has worked the spreadsheets and knows he will still turn a dollar (uh, many dollars). The gripes of many, myself included, is that he has never really abandoned the "win now" at all costs philosophy, and only once let a real football talent guy and fiscal disciplinarian (Shottenheimer) take hold of the Franchise and apply some tough love, sound building principles. Spurrier was a "win now, high octane offense, create the "buzz" move. Gibbs brought a little tough love in with him, and went 6-10, but did not bring a creative offense to go with the tough love. Williams impressed with the defense. Gibbs doubted himself and brought in another cook on offense. Snyder has to cease his worries about some losing season(s) where Fed-Ex might not be rocking (and churning bucks) and might have to try and build something solid, something that can win for many years in a row, by building with youth.

I hate to say it but even hiring Gibbs was a "win now" move, hoping that Gibbs had magic (and knowing he had the fan draw)that would somehow overcome a 10 to 12 year lay-off from the NFL, when he should have hired an up-and-coming assistant (The next Bill Bellacheck) and a solid general manager.

Snyder is no Bidwell, but he's no Rooney or Craft either. It will be very interesting to see if the Redskins really start to lose the fan base and keep on losing (no home play-off games, jersey sales in the tank, season tickets and corporate box sales decline) if the owners pressure him or pressure the league, now that profit sharing is in the mix. Since we are talking business, A losing Redskins franchise certainly does not benefit the owners.

Posted by: Harbinger | November 21, 2006 12:15 PM | Report abuse

This is what "parity" gets you -- any team can beat any team with regularity. Crappy teams winning and good teams losing aren't flukes; they're by design. Though the cream still arguably rises, there's no longer much cream. Skins beat Dallas beat Indy? Skins beat Jags beat Giants? Give me a break.

I'm learning to love baseball, where teams still have *identities* thanks to there being no real salary cap. I enjoyed rooting for the Skins when they could act like the Red Sox and Yankees, and I've enjoyed rooting for the Pirates through the same 30 year period. Doesn't matter so much if they're winners or losers, so long as the teams are consistent. I want the NFL to "package a predictable product," much as I hate those terms. Predictable breeds narrative, and that's a good thing. (Also makes fewer "analysts" look like fools on ESPN, Fox, and the papers. How do you expertly predict a coin flip?)

You want parity? You got it NFL. It stinks. The only teams that mean anything to too many fans these days are their fantasy "teams," and that stinks.

NFL, please bring back *sport*.

Posted by: worstSeat | November 21, 2006 12:24 PM | Report abuse

'Ku man!!!! You're back!!!!!!! You wuz missed. And back with an elegy, too. Huge.

Posted by: Jason's editor | November 21, 2006 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"an owner may be in it for whatever money he can make."

AHS, I'm not sure if we agree or disagree. Yes, all owners are in it to make money. Everyone who owns a business is in it to make money. You can call it greed or capitalism or whatever. It's not charity.

However, there are some owners who are ONLY in it for a quick buck. They are the ones who never spend up to the cap limit, and hire under-qualified coaches and assitants who won't ask for much money. Usually they have 2nd rate facilities as well.

You can't claim that the Redskins are run on the cheap. They routinely spend (and over-spend) on players, coaches, and facilities. Hence, the "just in it for a buck" theory is empty to me.

Again, I hate to be the one to defend Snyder because he's honestly never done me any favors. But he loves this team and as far as owners go, you could do A LOT worse. (Art Modell comes to mind.)

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | November 21, 2006 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I agree that Snyder isn't in it for just the money. The business side of the Skins is phenomenal and Snyder keeps coming up with new ways to make money. That's a plus. He's also not shy about spending money on the product. Another plus. However, the real problem is that he doesn't have football people making the football decisions. If he could get that part right then we'd have a model franchise to root for...

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Isn't it about time for the annual Art Monk HOF debate? Any ideas how we can convince Peter King and Dr. Z to vote for him? Seeing him get in after all these years would be awfully nice, especially in the wake of this mostly miserable season.

I seem to recall that King wrote during training camp that he was going to ask Coach Joe about Monk, to get better insight as to how important he was to those great teams. That gave me hope that King might come around to seriously considering #81 for the Hall. But then I never saw a followup comment on this.

Any ideas? AMTTS?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I seem to have read the Peter King has shifted to support Monk for the HOF.

Posted by: Rich from Salisbury | November 21, 2006 1:13 PM | Report abuse

We will never win as long as we got Dan, and his right nut Vinny. These people have no idea how to run a franchise. Dan got lucky during the IT Boom and thats about it. He is no genius folks. Can you tell how the hell are we going to win if we have old coaches, and old and reject players. Look at the O line and D line everyone is old. People, this team is just old. There is no future for redskins not until they understand how to build a succesful team. We are so bad that even the terps can beat the skins

Posted by: Dan Synder Hater | November 21, 2006 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Joe, we're on the same page pretty much I think. An owner who wants to win is a good thing. And you are right -- at least he hasn't pulled the moving trucks up at midnight to make our team the Little Rock Redskins or something.

Posted by: Ali Haji Shank | November 21, 2006 1:15 PM | Report abuse

I think they'd end up being the LA Botox if they left, but that's just me.

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 1:18 PM | Report abuse

If If If scenarios. If the Redskins score one more touchdown in a few games the record looks alot better, but if if if doesnt work, it is what it is including the 5 game win streak but also the lowly losses to TN and in my opinion Minn.

I do think Art Monk should undoubtedly be in the HOF. There a receivers with lesser stats and longevity.

Posted by: ih8dallas | November 21, 2006 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Like I have said. I am no Dan lover. However, this can't be put on him. He didn't pick these players. Coaches said this is who we want and he went out and got them. We would all be crying bloody hell if he didn't spend money. It comes down to the coaches and their egos. It that simple and it starts with Coach Joe. His ego and loyalty to Brunell and not starting Campbell cost us at least two games. Double G and wanting Carter/Adam and then not playing Roc because of his ego have hurt the D. Al I am going to hold judgment on for a couple of games.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 1:24 PM | Report abuse


"Pierce, Smoot - debatable decisions"

I don't mean this rudely but saying that Pierce was a debatable decision is like saying that drafting D. Green was a debatable decision. Ok, maybe not that extreme but I'm not sure what type of debate we are talking about. He's going to go to the pro bowl and he wanted to get paid like a starter.

Our D was three in the league that year. If you go back and read the quotes all you'll hear from coaches was how great he was and that he basically was the coach on the field. Knew where everyone was supposed to be, got everyone lined up and did his job. But alas, he was playing for the skins and Danny only pays people who don't play for him and show loyalty.

Posted by: Skinz | November 21, 2006 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I have no problem with Snyder making money. He spent a lot of money to buy the Skins. The problem is that he doesn't have the humility or trust to let someone else who knows better run the team. I know Coach Joe is supposed to be that person but we all see too much evidence of Snyder's management style in what happended between last year and this year.

Posted by: JGG | November 21, 2006 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I can't believe you just said that. He's the reason Denver hasn't won a Super Bowl out there the last few years; he's the same as Boonell is now, only better at faking it. Complete and utter liability.

Gibbs should be sent to an old folks home and heavily sedated if he even thinks of bringing him in here. Never, ever, ever mention the 'P' name again.

-Amen Meg. Plummer's horrible. The Broncos are fighting for a playoff spot in spite of him - there's actually talk that they might switch to Cutler next week if Plummer stinks it up again on Thursday. If the skins sign him I'll start cheering the Broncos - they've got all the skins draft picks anyway.

Now for the good news - rumor is the Eagles are interested in Plummer since he knows the "west coast" offense. Let him go there - he's so inaccurate Carlos Rogers might even be able to pick him off.

Posted by: skinswest | November 21, 2006 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Crystal ball for the rest of the way... three-game homestand -- CAR, ATL, PHI -- then at NO, at STL, home to NYG on my birthday (happy freakin' birthday).

Will we even win two of those games? Aside from Philly sans Donovan at our place, I don't like our chances in any of them. Are we looking at 4-12, 5-11? Somehow 6-10 seems out of reach. We are in Cardinals-Lions territory. And yes, the MIN and TEN losses are looking worse and worse. Ugh.

Or maybe Gibbie will surprise us all. Maybe he's really going to define who we are as a team, get the men playing some Good Football. Maybe.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 1:30 PM | Report abuse

"I think they'd end up being the LA Botox if they left, but that's just me.

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 01:18 PM"

As long as it's not some silly Disney name I can live with it.

Posted by: Ali Haji Shank | November 21, 2006 1:31 PM | Report abuse

I am hopeful but, some are even saying that Andre Reed was better than Art!? The pool is thin this year but with such an anti-Redskin slant out there, I can forsee Thurman Thomas and Andre (zero Superbowl victories between them both) making it before Mr. Monk.

Just a tidbit:

Sports Illustrated
October 5, 2006
Tough Call for the Hall
Paul Zimmerman

Wide Receivers

They're lining up four deep. There are 13 of them, and more will come from year to year because the numbers will be overwhelming, almost meaningless after a while. I have four names penciled in: Harold Carmichael, Henry Ellard, Michael Irvin and Andre Reed. If I'd have to predict which one will go all the way, I'd say Irvin. Art Monk again will provide spirited debate, for those of us who manage to remain awake throughout this old reprise. Please, Redskins fans, no e-mails at this particular time. Save 'em for January.

Posted by: Art Monk HOF 2007 | November 21, 2006 1:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm getting really tired of the mournful almost funeral like comments during each weeks press conferences."It's all of us together, the coaches, the players, and it starts with me" etc,etc,etc I don't really believe that's entirely true. And to the "sufferingskinfan",I thought it was a mistake when Joe stopped calling plays and devising game plans and I still think that's a big part of the problem. I also think the lament over Brunell's benching has to stop. All of the energy that's been wasted in explaining that decision has taken away a good deal of positive force needed for Jason Campbell to feel good about himself and confident in his talent. If one doesn't hear that in the voice of his coach, why should other team members rally around him? (Which they didn't!)
Charlie Weiss's philosophy at ND has changed the mindset of a quarterback and a team that didn't believe in themselves, didn't respect (or know how to use) their own talent and couldn't imagine winning a big game. Now they believe that together they can play and beat anyone, and they expect to score each time they have the ball. They exude confidence in themselves and that self worth combined with talent, teamwork and a coach who believes in them has made them a force to reckon with. Maybe the Redskins could benefit from some of that energy.

Posted by: Nancy | November 21, 2006 1:34 PM | Report abuse

Regardless of the outcomes of the last six games, I'm reduced to hoping that Soupy gets all the snaps, hands off to Ducky and Betts at least 30 times a game, and gets decent protection when he does drop back.

I have no hopes for our defense this season, except that Rocky gets in for at least 'some packages.' Our D is an embarassment.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 1:35 PM | Report abuse

We gave up our tickets this past year. The $30/game for sh%$! parking (x10 games paid in advance of course) pushed us over the edge. Felt continually screwed and the team hasn't been any better.

"Best fans in the NFL!" they say. Yeah, right, thanks.

It's easier just to watch them lose from my couch. (beer's a lot cheaper too).

Posted by: Gave It Up | November 21, 2006 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Nancy with all do respect. Can we please stop with ND? Who have they beaten? Navy, UNC, Stanford, Purdue, Army Air Force. Are you f**king me? When have any of those teams been ranked? When they did play a good team Michigan they got smack. (as they will this week) Like Eli they are way overrated. ND and Eli are average at best.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 1:41 PM | Report abuse

sorry should be f**king me. Boss walked pass. lol (I really am going to get fired because of this blog)

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 1:43 PM | Report abuse

sorry should be f**king kidding me. Boss walked pass. lol (I really am going to get fired because of this blog)

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 1:44 PM | Report abuse

>>>>>"Dan got lucky during the IT Boom and thats about it. He is no genius folks"

Posted by: Dan Synder Hater | November 21, 2006 01:15 PM

that is the most ignorant statement i have heard in a long time. if you knew a single thing about his past, luck played a very little role in his success. i'm not dan snyders biggest fan, but he buys whatever players he is asked to buy. the problem is with the people telling him who to buy. would you rather he never spent a dime? he is doing his share for the most part.

Posted by: TM | November 21, 2006 1:45 PM | Report abuse

I didn't know SI still was printing mags. How insignificant have they become in the past 10 yrs? There are only two recievers from the list you have there who should be lock HOF's. Monk and Irvin. If they choose three this year, I would also add Reed, but Monk and Irvin are sooo far above and beyond better recievers than the others listed.

Posted by: BT | November 21, 2006 1:48 PM | Report abuse

There is not going to be a quick fix to the debacle that the Redskins have become. First and foremost, they need a personell guy that is legitimate. Cerrato is garbage just look at the record of the teams where he has helped choose talent. You would think that quality GM's would be tripping over each other to work for deep pockets Snyder. After all, he has shown money is no limit when it comes to paying players and or coaches. The real issue is that nobody wants to work for Snyder cause he is a born and bred D.C. area jackass. Her personality is so bad that none of the top GM's want to work for him even though they would rarely be turned down on picking whatever players they wanted. That speaks volumes on Snyder. Current GM Cerrato is just a Snyder lacky. Snyder should stop paying all these millions for coaches who have not made one bit of difference this year and try to convince a real GM to come work for him. Of course, he could make the GM the highest paid in history. If he really wanted to build a winner and not a good marketing strategy he would cough up big time money to lure one of the top GM's to run the team. Then they need to build through the draft by not shuffling off picks and then start developing players. This will take 3 years at a minimum to start seeing some positive results. Gibbs was good in his first stint only as much as he was being fed gems from Beathard. Gibbs record on picking personell is just plain bad. None of the players he was instrumental in choosing has panned out very well in the league. So get used to this stunning display of garbage I really don't see an easy fix. You can sure bet that the rest of the league is laughing their asses off at the highest paid team in the NFL who can barely win a game with 20 of the highest paid coaches as well. At least the Danny has made his money from marketing the Gibbs team so he is happy.....

Posted by: MiKe | November 21, 2006 1:52 PM | Report abuse

I have to agree with TM. As much as I hate Snyder's decisions with the Redskins, you can't just say that he got rich by being "lucky."

Say what you may about the Redskins product on the field, but Snyder has been extremely successful making this team into the most profitable US sports team. When you think about that, it is astounding. Even more profitable than teams like the Yankees and Red Sox, who play 80+ home games and have a much greater following than the Redskins.

Snyder is a brilliant business man, but a lousy personnel man. That is why the Redskins could be scary good if they ever hire a GM and use the boatloads of money the Redskins generate more wisely.

Posted by: BT | November 21, 2006 1:56 PM | Report abuse

In his defense Walt Harris was hurt a lot of the time he played in Washington. I know he had a bad calf for a long time.

If I could have any ONE of those guys back that the Skins let go it would be without a doubt Antnio Pierce.

Watching that game last night, he was ALL OVER THE FIELD making plays.

It's really a shame the Skins can't evaluate talent. Until they change that process they will always suck.

Sorry but it's true.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | November 21, 2006 1:57 PM | Report abuse

Will someone from the WP please ask Joe Gibbs or Gregg Williams some questions that get under their skin, make them squirm a little. Like on ESPN put them on the hotseat.

Posted by: ih8dallas | November 21, 2006 2:01 PM | Report abuse

The Giants lost again. If the Skins defense had made an effort on Sunday they probably would have won the game and then we would only be two games behind. The division is winable - giving anyone the opportunity to win it. It frustrating that only the Skins are making an effort NOT to win it.

I see Steve Smith and Del Rio in the film room practically drooling, saying "oh boy, oh boy!" getting all excited about this weeks game watching the Skins secondary. I say SS gets three TD's. ("sigh")

Posted by: charlie | November 21, 2006 2:03 PM | Report abuse

Someone needs to ask Gregg Williams why he benched Adam, and yet the defense STILL STINKS!! Or why Rocky has yet to see the field?? Or if he has a game plan for Carolina, or are they just going to stick to the same crap he's been trotting out there for 10 weeks, thats been getting TORCHED AND TRAMPLED by every team. Then they need to ask Gibbs, why he's letting Williams ruin this team??

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | November 21, 2006 2:22 PM | Report abuse

charlie, your own Mark Maske has your sorry team rated #29 in league(you never had chance to win div)your a clown to say the skinys are not trying to win!!!

Posted by: Redskins Suck | November 21, 2006 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Watching the Jints get toasted last night, and surveying the wreckage of the NFC, it occurred to me:

If the Redskins had simply DONE NOTHING in the off season except rest everyone, sign last year's players and come back with the same offensive and defensive approach, the team would be 6-4, with wins over Minn. Tenn. and TB, and comfortably into the playoff mix.

Talk about money well spent...

Posted by: Pigskin | November 21, 2006 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey guys,

If you remember, last year Gibbs was doing the play calling and frankly at times HE SUCKED at it. Then Portis said something to Gibbs and they finally decided to get back to the counter trey and smash mouth football and won 6 in a row DESPITE awful performances from the QB (Brunell).

Gibbs wasn't that great at play calling either. Not defending what's going on now. Most of the play up until now, I HAVE TO BELIEVE, was limited by Brunell's weakness. He made the team one dimensional. Teams knew he didn't have a deep threat, only did the dink and dunks and then stacked people at the line and blitzed him. I HAVE TO BELIEVE that JC will help that. They'll have to respect him deep, won't be able to blitz with abandon and if he does dump it off underneath, the receivers should have more room.

Posted by: 'Canes Fan (not Miami) | November 21, 2006 2:26 PM | Report abuse

As for the defense....

A good pass rush from our front four would make our DB's all look a lot better. That's where it starts. Maybe that's why Walt Harris (who got burned ALOT last year, as much as Rogers is getting burned this year) looked so bad here last year and doesn't look so bad somewhere else. WE NEED A PASS RUSH FROM OUR FRONT FOUR!

AND, we're getting ZIPPY production at linebacker.

Posted by: 'Canes Fan (not Miami) | November 21, 2006 2:28 PM | Report abuse

I don't understand why Snyder has kept such an incompetent as Vinny. While I don't doubt Snyder's desire to win and buy the best, I just can't believe how he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. The man obviously knows how to make money, but he has no idea how to spend it on his ball club. Can we start a grass roots campaign to convince Dan?

Vinny gets no respect:

How far we've come in six years.

Hands off, buddy
Redskins doomed with Snyder making football decisions
By Glenn Dickey
As published in print Dec. 26, 2000
Snyder and Cerrato
Daniel Snyder
Vinny Cerrato

It's a delicious coincidence that Peter Angelos and Daniel Snyder operate professional sports franchises in adjacent geographical areas because they share the same misguided view of how to make a team a winner.

Angelos has poured money into obtaining veteran free agents for his Baltimore Orioles in the last three years and has succeeded only in putting together teams that have no chemistry and thus, are less than the sum of their parts. The Orioles have finished below .500 in each of the last three years.

Snyder poured money into obtaining veteran free agents for his Washington Redskins this year, pushing the Redskins' payroll to the highest in the league and creating salary-cap problems that will dog the team for years. His reward? An underachieving team that missed the playoffs.

Since no owner, least of all Snyder, is going to blame himself, the fall guy for the Redskins' demise was former head coach Norv Turner, who was fired when the team fell to 7-6. But when the team lost its first two games under interim coach Terry Robiskie -- the first an embarrassing rout by the weak Cowboys -- it was obvious the team's problems neither started nor ended with the coach.

At the very minimum, a successful NFL franchise must have a general manager who can make the right personnel decisions, a coach who can get the most out of his players and a quarterback who can lead the team. The Redskins have none of those, and that all goes back to Snyder.

The Redskins had a respected general manager, Charley Casserly, whose astute moves set the 'Skins up to get the second and third picks in the last draft. But Snyder didn't like Casserly, so he fired him and hired Vinny Cerrato, who had undermined the San Francisco 49ers as their player personnel director. The salary cap gets the blame for most of the 49ers' problems, but an equal problem was their poor drafting during Cerrato's time, highlighted (lowlighted?) by his push for QB Jim Druckenmiller in the first round of the 1997 draft. The slow-moving and slow-thinking Druckenmiller was woefully unsuited for the 49ers' offensive system and was dumped by the team before the start of the '99 season.

Cerrato can't be blamed for what's happened to the Redskins this season because the offseason moves were largely orchestrated by Snyder.

Like a kid in a toy store, he went through picking free agents off the shelves, picking up players with great résumés but not much left in their tanks. As the older players tired, the Redskins played poorly down the stretch.

Snyder inherited Turner as his coach, and Turner has a reputation as a great offensive coordinator but a poor motivator. If Snyder had waited until the end of the season and then removed Turner, it would have been just another coaching change. But the owner's visible interference during the season and the in-season firing of Turner will make it difficult, perhaps even impossible, to hire a coach of any reputation.

And what tells you all you need to know about Snyder's judgment is that he thinks Jeff George is a better choice at quarterback than Brad Johnson.

Turner had preferred Johnson, but Snyder told Robiskie to play George, so Johnson will leave at the end of the season. George is as pure a passer as you'll ever see. He can throw every kind of pass, and he has the arm and accuracy to hit a receiver in stride 50 yards downfield. There's only one thing wrong with George: His teams almost never win anything. In 11 seasons with five different teams, he's played on only two playoff teams -- in '95 with Atlanta and last season with Minnesota. Though George played well for the Vikings, head coach Dennis Green dumped him after the season and went with the then-untested Daunte Culpepper.

George doesn't connect with his teammates, so he can't be a leader. He doesn't even think that should be his role, as he told me explicitly in an interview when he was quarterbacking the Raiders.

So this is going to be the Redskins' quarterback? Good luck.

The chief problem, though, continues to be Snyder. As long as he pokes his head into every aspect of the operation, instead of finding competent people and letting them do the job, the Redskins will not be winners.

This is a hard point for owners to understand, especially when they first take over. When the battle between the DeBartolos ended with Denise DeBartolo York in control of the 49ers, her husband, John York, wanted to get heavily involved in the operation. He told me that he thought head coach Steve Mariucci should work more through his assistant coaches and do less hands-on coaching. But after a time, York realized he should let Mariucci and general manager Bill Walsh do their jobs, and the 49ers have been better off for it.

The Cowboys should be so lucky. Since Jimmy Johnson left, owner Jerry Jones has been heavily involved in the operation. Johnson made the draft decisions when he was there, and they were brilliant. Since his departure, Jones has hired coaches who know their place, which is not in making personnel moves. That's Jones' department, and it's not coincidental that the Cowboys have gone downhill the last few years.

The only NFL owner with the football background to make decisions is Al Davis of the Raiders. Football is Davis's life, and he did a great job of building the Raiders into one of the league's great franchises. But in the last 15 years, Davis has had problems adjusting to the changing times, and it was not until he relinquished some of his control that the Raiders were rejuvenated, under head coach Jon Gruden.

Owners are usually successful businessmen who delegate authority in their other ventures. But sports is a field in which everybody thinks they're an expert, and it takes a wise man to realize he doesn't have the knowledge to make the right decisions.

Jerry Jones doesn't have that wisdom, and Daniel Snyder certainly doesn't have it. Until Snyder acquires it, or sells the club, Redskins fans are doomed to disappointment.

Posted by: sadskinhatesvinny | November 21, 2006 2:42 PM | Report abuse

yeah, but warick holdman really fights his guts out

Posted by: Bangbros | November 21, 2006 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Anybody interested in getting a shirt that says...


let me know...

Posted by: John From Herndon | November 21, 2006 2:45 PM | Report abuse

no, i don't think i want your shirt, john from herndon, but thanks anyway.

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Woohoo, welcome back Haikuman! Time for a poetry party.

Posted by: Megskin | November 21, 2006 2:54 PM | Report abuse

I agree with moving Andre Carter back to LB and considering the 3-4. He's a bust with his hand down on the line.

Posted by: 'Canes Fan (not Miami) | November 21, 2006 3:01 PM | Report abuse

For those who want Vinny roasted, we have plenty of time to write about thsi debacle the next few weeks, and he'll get his. You have to remember, though, that the coaches are making the big calls now. Do they get much real support from Vinny .. umm.

But saying that, he's not going to stand up to Grilliams and tell him Adam is not the right guy for his system, if he even did manage to make that determination himself, which again, is sketchy.

As for the blog influencing my questions; I would say that on something like JC, the emails I get, blog reaction, sentiment on message boards, and questions on web chats were overwhelmingly in favor of a QB change weeks before Joe acted, so I was thinking in those terms when I asked about stability at the QB position.

Anyone who does not believe that Dan Snyder is about making money is nuts. I',m not saying he's ONLY about that, but come, on, it defines him as a human being. He wears his money like a fur coat. He's all about sales and marketing. It's who he is. Let's not kid ourselves.

He is entitles to every penny and he does indeed re-invest in the team - but alwasy comes away making handfuls of money - that you guys subsidize - and that money is almost always spent poorly.

He could be a model owner and has made some strides, but his devotion to a repeatedly failing front office structure makes everything else moot. That is his fudnamental flaw, and for such an astute business man, it shocks me he has come to that conclusion. But then again, the cash keeps rolling in.

So, why doesn't he insist on someone other than Vinny, the scouts and the coaches making vital personnel decisions? Makes you wonder.

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 3:03 PM | Report abuse

how about a shirt: Vinny Must Go or
Cerrato Must Go

Posted by: thor | November 21, 2006 3:03 PM | Report abuse

(forgot to sing my stupid name before sending that last comment, so here it is again with credit and blame where it is due).

For those who want Vinny roasted, we have plenty of time to write about thsi debacle the next few weeks, and he'll get his. You have to remember, though, that the coaches are making the big calls now. Do they get much real support from Vinny .. umm.

But saying that, he's not going to stand up to Grilliams and tell him Adam is not the right guy for his system, if he even did manage to make that determination himself, which again, is sketchy.

As for the blog influencing my questions; I would say that on something like JC, the emails I get, blog reaction, sentiment on message boards, and questions on web chats were overwhelmingly in favor of a QB change weeks before Joe acted, so I was thinking in those terms when I asked about stability at the QB position.

Anyone who does not believe that Dan Snyder is about making money is nuts. I',m not saying he's ONLY about that, but come, on, it defines him as a human being. He wears his money like a fur coat. He's all about sales and marketing. It's who he is. Let's not kid ourselves.

He is entitles to every penny and he does indeed re-invest in the team - but alwasy comes away making handfuls of money - that you guys subsidize - and that money is almost always spent poorly.

He could be a model owner and has made some strides, but his devotion to a repeatedly failing front office structure makes everything else moot. That is his fudnamental flaw, and for such an astute business man, it shocks me he has come to that conclusion. But then again, the cash keeps rolling in.

So, why doesn't he insist on someone other than Vinny, the scouts and the coaches making vital personnel decisions? Makes you wonder.

Posted by: Jason La Canfora | November 21, 2006 3:04 PM | Report abuse

I like 'Vinny Must Go' shirt...

Posted by: John From Herndon | November 21, 2006 3:04 PM | Report abuse

I also think (as do many) that Greg Williams has a HUGE ego and goes on these power trips.

Last year with Lavar...May not have been totally healthy and may not stick to his assignment, but he was a playmaker. When he FINALLY got playing time, there was an increase in turnovers, which was as you remember a problem LAST YEAR TOO. But GW was too into proving a point and showing who was top dog to put Lavar in.

Now we see the same with the rookie. Don't know if it's justified or not but I'll tell you it would be hard for him to do worse than Holdman who can't fill a gap or tackle a runner. Not that it's much better in the middle. I'll give Marcus a pass because I do think he's pretty steady.

Posted by: 'Canes Fan (not Miami) | November 21, 2006 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Let's do a little contest.
Who can come up with the best line for the "Cerrato Must Go" campaign.
Something lik: "Cerrato Out the Door"

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Vinny's his right hand "yes" man, J La C. That's the type of personality little danny is...the kind that surround themselves with people who won't question them

Posted by: 4-12 | November 21, 2006 3:13 PM | Report abuse

I give the Snyderman a pass on player / personnel decisions. When Gibbs came back, he said it's all up to Joe. WHat Joe wants, Joe gets. And boy does he get it. Wanted Brunell. Gave up a draft pick and what was it, $40 million to TRADE for someone who was going to be cut in 3 wks and who CLEARLY wanted to play for Gibbs.

I think that Snyderman is just writing the checks and making sure that Gibbs gets what he's asking for.

Do I believe he's been totally hands off? Probably not. But I can tell you, I'd be shocked if he's arguing with Gibbs about who should be here. My guess is he's given him carte blanche.

Now I do blame him (and even more so Vinny) for the HUGE lack of control. The other teams in the league must LAUGH (all the way to the bank) whenever they deal with the Redskins. We will literally give them twice what someone's worth.

Maybe I'm rambling a bit, but I think Snyderman's been a decent owner from the standpoint of dishing out the cash to get WHOEVER it is that JOE GIBBS wants. Gibbs bears the brunt of the blame for the player decisions because I believe he's made them.

WE NEED A STRONG GM to tell Gibbs it's stupid to give up a third round pick and trade 1st rounders with Denver to get TJ from the Falcons for whatever receiver we sent there. Someone who can stand up to him and tell him no. VINNY IS NOT THAT GUY! I do blame Snyderman for that!

Posted by: 'Canes Fan (not Miami) | November 21, 2006 3:14 PM | Report abuse


Please tell me that Gibbs is tearing G-Will a new one, with the way this defense is playing. Also, with the comments that players have made, Rogers, Daniels, its apparent that they're questioning the system, and not really buying into it. Can we expect a change this week, in the scheme?

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | November 21, 2006 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think I get any respect for doin' the job I do."

Quote from Vinny...Classic..

Im with Vinny must go shirts...

Posted by: OC Skins | November 21, 2006 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Here's my idea for a shirt:

Tickets: $1,588
Parking: $240
Beer: $192

Watching my Team Stink: Worthless

Some players are worth the money. For everyone else, there's Vinny Cerrato's Mastercard.

Posted by: Pigskin | November 21, 2006 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Wow - I've been reading my guts out over the posts that you guys have been blogging your guts out. Some of the best stuff in a while - the switch to Soups was worth it for that alone.
I was blog free again yesterday and was getting the shakes by this morning but the 500 posts made it all better.

My two cents:
$.01 - To echo everyone we need a GM - look at Seattle - Holmgren steps aside and lets someone else take the reins recognizing he is not good at the job. Gibby's gotta do the same and for the love of pete someone, anyone, please drop kick Cerrato out the front door - well anyone but Nick Novak who'll shank Vinny and bang him off the right door and he'll still be in the office.

$.02 - I am simply repeating everyone else but I've decided to use a new analogy. The Skins are like the US car companies. They spend all kinds of cash to try to keep up with the Japanese. They find something that works for a little while - SUVs - and pile all the cash into these with absolutely no sense of the long term or trying to engineer something that works well for more than a few years. Meanwhile the Japanese continue to make great small cars and better SUVs and promptly kick our ass and when gas prices go up the US car companies slowly head towards bankruptcy floundering around trying to make changes without dealing with the fundamental flaws.

Crappy analogy - I'm giving an econ test right now using the US car companies as a case study. Maybe I should give a test using the Skins as a case study.

*sigh* - I've doing that all day - *sigh*

Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Canes Fan, I think you're right that Joe Gibbs deserves criticism for an aggressive approach to free agency. He's the Team President who claims responsibility for the offseason decision making.

Surely he deserves much of the responsibility for the Redskins offseason moves.

That said, are we to believe then that Snyder and Cerrato aren't culpable also? In a blog or chat at this website recently one of the Post journalists told the story of Snyder replying to Ryan Clark's request of $1.5 in guaranteed money by saying something along the lines of, "you'll never earn that kind of money here." If it was Gibbs who said that, that would be one thing. But it wasn't!! The story, the way it was told certainly made it seem like Snyder played more of a hands-on role than the passive/spectator business-owner we're led to believe.

All season long fans have been criticizing the "win-now" philosophy that has produced team instability. That philosophy has been a feature of the Redskins ever since Snyder's arrival. He is the Founding Father of that philosophy - not Gibbs. Yes, offseason moves *are* the responsibility of Gibbs right now. But Snyder is a very shrewd character, and I don't doubt he has more influence than we care to imagine.

So yes, Gibbs is at the heart of the decision making, but perhaps the lure of Snyder's bottomless wallet has pulled Gibbs into the dark side?

I just think there's a complex dynamic at work here - with Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato all responsible at one level or another.

Posted by: Johnnie Futbol | November 21, 2006 3:55 PM | Report abuse

We just need a middle linebacker that can anchor this defense. Urlacher in Chicago, Pierce in NY, Ray Lewis in Baltimore, Donnie Edwards in San Diego, Al Wilson in Denver, Bruschi or Seau in New England, Zach Thomas in Miami...

Most of the great defenses in the NFL have a top notch, hard nosed, run stopping, playmaking middle linebacker. Let's face it, Antonio Pierce was the biggest loss for our defense. Lemar Marshall is well below average for a middle linebacker.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 3:58 PM | Report abuse

On the front: Vinny Must Go!

On the back:

"I don't think I get any respect for doin' the job I do." - Vinny Cerratto

That's because you suck!

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 3:58 PM | Report abuse

Screwed up the spacing. My bad.

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 4:00 PM | Report abuse

The problem with the skins is they lack focus and a clear plan. they probably have a plan but lack the skill to implement such a plan, and the ability to evaluate your current condition, strengths weaknesses to guide them forward. Their plan appears to be a series of accumulating ideas versus a well thought out mission. They apparently lack the thought process to evaluate the key components and related impacts of the plan. It is not all about the money. If it were the plan would work.

Example - They have a power running team, but change offensive philosophies that runs wide not up the gut. They have a short QB that is not mobile, and limited arm strength. These things are not conducive to Saunders scheme. So what changes to make it work? What do they compromise to still be productive? Apparently nothing. during the bye week the coaches wan tot work on the 15 year vet to know his keys and read defenses better. Saunders system works, but does he have the personnel to run it. Shuoldn't should adjust to the talents he has to some degree. In my opinion, Brunell looked just as bad last year. Particularly at the end of the season and playoffs, the passing game offered nothing. Now we know Portis was hurt

Again, the quotes coming out of this team appear different. I remember the quotes when it was obvious Desmond Howard could not play, same with Heath Shuler. I see hints in these quotes. The players don't respect Archuletta's skills by all the references to Ryan Clark, who was not an all-pro. Walt Harris is playing well, meanwhile Carlos Rogers needs to prove himself or show he has NFL talent. Have not seen the inferences yet towards Brunell, but have not seen WRs quotes yet.

BTW, Lloyd is not a flop. He just dropped a pass. [the catch behind him on the slant was almost exceptional.] The Skins problem is they don't have a possession reciver to work the middle, or have to keep Cooley into help. They have 4 smurfs, and Thrash. That eliminates the middle of the field to some extent. And frankly I would love to chart Brunells passes in the middle over ten yards. I would bet in 9 games he had less than 10 attempts. Not just completions, but attempts of more than 10 yards.

Lastly, this is Gibbs ship sinking, no one elses. Snyder deserves some blame overall, but this is Gibbs boat.

Posted by: OKNOW | November 21, 2006 4:00 PM | Report abuse

We could draft the Butkus award winner and Bednarik award winner from 2005 - LB Paul Posluszny out of Penn State. Best linebacker Penn State has ever had.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Hang on - I totally respect how much Vinny sucks at doing his job.

Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Paul Posluszny is a great linebacker. He is super smart, super tough, super quick, and he would fit right into Grilliams blue collar defense. The Redskins will have a shot at him in the draft.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 4:12 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Break out diapers for all you bloger babys!

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Okay I'm now catching up with the articles.

JM please get in your car, pick up like 30 people, drive out to Redskins Park and take a 2x4 to the back of Carlos Rodgers' head.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? "It's hard covering the fastest guy in the league." Wah Wah Wah - that's your flinging flanging job! Plus I repeat - HE JOGGED like an 80 year old in the Marine Corp Marathon on that corner blitz where he went in untouched.

Sorry I have much pent-up.


Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"For those who want Vinny roasted, we have plenty of time to write about thsi debacle the next few weeks, and he'll get his."

That's it Jason! Book 'em Dano, Murder One!

Posted by: Ali Haji Shank | November 21, 2006 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"I think our fans always make the right decisions. I don't have to coach up our fans base."
So I guess all you selling your tickets and giving up your season tickets - turns out St. Joe thinks you're right.

Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Vinny is "yes mister snyder"ing his guts out

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I believe that the arrogance of the Def. staff (not all) has mainly been the downfall for this year.
Greg Blache- major league jackhole for tarnishing Lavar's rep. I believe he is a major reason why LA's in NY. LA was in decline but holdman is a downgrade at this position.
Gregg Williams- Good coach, but lousy evaluator of talent. Arch, Rumph, Carter. nuff said.
These guys drank too much of their own Kool-Aid. Believing that they could turn any bum off the street into a stud D-lineman. (I'm not calling our current group bums) The Skins have had a huge hole in the D-line since D. Manley left. No one has addressed this issue. It pains me to see a Mathias Kiwianuka go to the Gmen when they already have good (if not great) DE's and we trade up for a guy that can't crack the lineup (or has been given the chance to do so). And Pierce, someone should hang for that decision.
His replacement Lemar, is not a true MLB.

Posted by: methatswho | November 21, 2006 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Here's my idea for additinal revenue. Pour Tabasco into the jock straps of the defense to get them "fired up" and running around the field and then slap a Tabasco logo on the crotch up their pants.

"This tackle was brought to you by Tabasco."
"QB sack sponsored by Tabasco."

I'M LOSING MY MIND this team is driving me so crazy!


Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Yes, I want to see Krazy-Eyez Roster Killa go. And yes, we need an equal-power-with-the-coach GM now just as much as we have since Casserly was dumped.

But it's more interesting watching Coach Joe's very public tussles with himself over what to do to make this team better. Because I know HE wants the team to play well and win as much as anyone, and I know HE is taking responsibility (unlike just about anyone else).

He benched Brunell, finally, and put in the kid. Obviously that took him forever and caused him great pain. But he did it.

And this week brings what I think are two just as difficult decisions: does he insert himself into the defensive game planning because he has to, since he's the only guy who outranks Grilliams? And since he keeps mentioning running the ball, is he going to step up his involvement in Saunders' play calling? We know he needs to do make improvement in both areas, but will he if it means stepping on these guys' -- his seconds-in-command -- toes?

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Skins win the next three at home, get some momentum and finish the season strong. Believe!

Posted by: JGG | November 21, 2006 4:34 PM | Report abuse

My team's owner spent $1,000,000,000,000 on team's salary and all I got is
lousy Vinny

Posted by: thor | November 21, 2006 4:34 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: QFB | November 21, 2006 4:48 PM | Report abuse

"My team's owner spent $1,000,000,000,000 on team's salary and all I got is lousy Vinny."

Very nice! Does it come in burgundy?

Posted by: Posse Redux | November 21, 2006 4:50 PM | Report abuse

It would be pretty funny if a coupla thousand "REDSKINS, WHY DO YOU BREAK JOHN FROM HERNDON'S HEART?" shirts popped up around town.
If only we had a budget for promotions, we could put the blog's url on the back. If I could solve these kinds of marketing issues, I could make a boatload of dough and buy an NFL team.
And get to go to TomKat's wedding.

Posted by: Jason's editor | November 21, 2006 4:51 PM | Report abuse

methatswho - it was not Greg Blache who trashed Lavar, it was Dale Lindsey. It was really stupid for Lindsey him to make that comment (and treat Lavar like he did) but according to many reports, Lavar did not want to practice, study the plays,etc.

Posted by: Lisa | November 21, 2006 4:54 PM | Report abuse

49ers a more successful franchise then skins is still rebuilding after vinney left.the redskins are terrible in all key positions. it will be yrs before they can be a CONTENDER not PRETENDER!!

Posted by: boohoo boxes 4sale | November 21, 2006 5:17 PM | Report abuse

Jason's Editor,

If you can get the shirts printed up before Sunday, I'd be happy to wear them to the game, and I could hand out shirts to 7 or 8 of my friends who will also be in attendance at the game.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I think it would send a great message to the team if the whole stadium was wearing "Redskins, why do you break our hearts" shirts.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 5:18 PM | Report abuse

San Francisco is a contender and we are a pretender now because we took all of their dead weight. They obviously know how to evaluate talent, and dumped their non-talented players to us.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 5:20 PM | Report abuse

It feels like we are a AA or AAA minor league football team that develops players and then sends them off to the big leagues once they are fully developed. We'll probably send Campbell off soon if he continues to play this well.

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Boofer, the saddest part about it is that the Cowboys lost to the PRETENDER!! What does that say about the boys?

Posted by: Max | November 21, 2006 5:30 PM | Report abuse

has anyone heard el presidente gibbs on the john riggins show from yesterday? WOW!!! UMMMAAAAAZING STUFF. it goes something like this: "it's not the offense. it's not the defense. it's not the special teams. it's not the STRUCTURE. it's not the PLAYCALLING." and then the whole crap about "it's all of us in this together".

AND THEN he goes on to say the most bizzare thing i've ever heard a clinically sane person say "'s what we are...we are what we are...we want to get here...that's what we are...we know we want to get better...and we are here and that's what we are..."

ya'll should listen to it. it HAS to be on the net somewhere. cuz riggo played it like 10 times today (24 hours later). riggo should be doing MNF, SNF!

so what i miss? you mean the calls for a real:


Posted by: dealer | November 21, 2006 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Max, its not sad at all considering its a div rivalry which everyone knows anything can happen!doesnt matter who the superior team is.let me give you some examples
1.1989 dallas had 1 win(guess)
2.1991 skins were undefeated at 11-0 and on the way to SB and guess who gave 1st loss to them?so as all your points usually are without merit and from a sore losing whiny fan!!PS boofer is not only boys fan to enjoy your misery on this blog.

Posted by: Boohoo Boxes 4sale | November 21, 2006 5:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm a big believer in Coach Joe, but these past few days I can't help flashing on weird Admiral Stockdale in the '92 veep debate: "Who am I, and why am I here?"

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 5:50 PM | Report abuse


Can you suggest to Gibbs that he wear a suit on Sunday? Both coaches (Nolan and Del Rio) who wore suits to their games won - might not help us but it certainly is worth a try.

Posted by: Lisa | November 21, 2006 6:38 PM | Report abuse

JM please get in your car, pick up like 30 people, drive out to Redskins Park and take a 2x4 to the back of Carlos Rodgers' head.

sfskin LMAO!!!

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Currently listening to Toni Braxton's Unbreak My Heart.

Unbreak my heart
Say you'll love me again
Undo this hurt that you caused
When you walked out the door
And walked out of my life
Uncry these tears....
I cried so many nights....
Unbreak my heart
My heart....


Posted by: John From Herndon | November 21, 2006 6:55 PM | Report abuse

John From Herndon ok bra take a deep breath. I am starting to worry about you now.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 7:01 PM | Report abuse

It's so nice to have John from Herndon back, broken heart and all :-)

Greetings from sunny SoCal. Its 75 and sunny, and I'm doing my best to avoid the family get together part of the week.

Posted by: P Diddy | November 21, 2006 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Dealer - sounds like St. Joe has acquired Rumsfeld disease.

"There's things we know we know. There's thing we know we don't know. There's things we don't know we don't know. . ."

so we know for example that our guys play their guts out. . . we know we don't know how to beat another team . . .we don't know that we don't know that our defense is playing so badly because they're distrated by Gwilligans man boobs. . .

Posted by: sfskin | November 21, 2006 7:06 PM | Report abuse

we don't know that we don't know that our defense is playing so badly because they're distrated by Gwilligans man boobs.

That's just not right. lol

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 7:07 PM | Report abuse

if the this is what we are whowe are and where we wants to go is what he says to the players they might not be smart enough to get in other words without actually saying it he is telling them they all suck together coaches included just like he said Run the ball and stop the run cant allow as many big plays and we will win games

Posted by: ih8dallas | November 21, 2006 7:15 PM | Report abuse

Off of the topic crew. But I got to get this in.

1. Fat boy King really needs to get a hold of himself. He compared Eli to Vince Young. Eli been in the NFL longer and started more games. But he didn't call out Eli but always want to trash Monk. If anything that should show how average Eli really is. Double smack in the back of your head fat boy.

2. Kramer you damn racist. A double punch in the back of your head and a foot up your a**.

Thank I feel much better now.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 7:18 PM | Report abuse

Fire his butt as soon as possible. He has absolutely NO TALENT in picking players. LOSER CENTRAL.

Posted by: Cerato is a freak | November 21, 2006 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I see a lot of blame being assigned to high paid players, assistants, Cerrato, and ownership. But doesn't anybody think we the fans share in some of the blame? How many fans did you know who called for Nolan's dismissal, or for running Brad J out of town. Or Casserly? Or ditching Marty because he made DGreen and BSmith do the Oklahoma drill?

I think if anything, Danny boy's biggest problem is that he responds to the fans too quickly. So I for one am not going to make any more rash suggestions; I just hope the organization is patient and learns from its mistakes. There are NO quick fixes, including hiring a GM, firing one or more assistants, or drafting 3 more players this spring than we currently are able to.

Posted by: John - Charlotte, NC | November 21, 2006 8:05 PM | Report abuse


hysterical. I didn't hear that exact sound bite, but I did hear his press conference and interview on NBC4 and it was a lot of the same stuff.

still laughing about the clinically sane part because I was honestly thinking along the same lines every time I heard him stumble through the "this is where we are and we need to get where we want to be" crap...

I honestly don't know what to say anymore. I'd love for Gibbs to either go back to calling the plays or quit, but then we'd still have Vinny and Dan.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 8:06 PM | Report abuse


I'm dying over hear at the General Stockdale reference. I might have to throw on the SNL the Best of Phil Hartman right now.

Sadly, Gibbs is being compared to a guy who has lost his mind and we all seem to agree. UNREAL

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | November 21, 2006 8:09 PM | Report abuse

R-Bob, we gotta keep each other's spirits up through these difficult times. A little levity, a little booze, whatever it takes.

All the doom and gloom and gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair. Yeah, I wish things were better right now, but I plan to be a fan of this team for the rest of my days. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Or something like that.

(Trying to keep myself from going Stockdale)

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 8:32 PM | Report abuse

okay i don't know who's comment it was in particular but i just busted out laughing and got a nasty look from you know who. cuz we only have one laptop.

ummmm john, i think said we don't need a gm? john, then it's status quo for 10 straight years baby and without a change in their personnell department this team will stay at the bottom for good. it'll have it's ocasional playoff run(cuz even a blind man...once) every 5-10 years.

john, i would love to give you the list of FA signings, draft picks, and so on that THIS president(gibbs) has made...but i'm pretty sure that you know all that already. and that's is at the very least a fireable offense. not from snyder's eyes but fans. because we're the patrons and we're the ones that got screwed. snyder and all of joe's cronies still got theirs.

also i think we, as fans are all smart enough (actually more informed now than before with all the technology out there) than when nolan was here. we know it's not joe the coach. it's joe the president that needs to be fired or at least be stripped of his powers when it comes to selecting personnel.

i could actually go on and on and on but like ricky said i don't want to talk about it anymore. here's hoping that whatever is making him say stuff like "we are where we are when we are so we are when we get there..." is senioridus, as in his last year as a skin. (cuz we all know he aint answering to no mortal at this point.)

Posted by: dealer | November 21, 2006 8:36 PM | Report abuse

Do you guys think Maske's blog is jealous of this one?

Up here, J-La could post about his car's air freshener and it would generate a firestorm of comments. (Sadly, most of them would blame Cerrato.)

Don't get me wrong, Maske does just a super job doing what he does. But come on, THIS is where the action is.

Posted by: Nate in the PDX | November 21, 2006 8:47 PM | Report abuse


Maske is a super smart guy and super support up here. He is where is he is and he is what he is or whatever in the hell Coach Joe said.

I am looking foward to another good game out of Campbell. That my positive thought and what I am focusing on.

Posted by: jm220 | November 21, 2006 8:59 PM | Report abuse

Dealer- I'm not saying we don't need a gm, I think I just said that it's not a quick fix. We as fans often act as if it's a single huge act that will make our team better. The truth is that great organizations (in the business world and in sports) are built over time. The Patriots, Steelers, Spurs, and Jordan Bulls weren't built overnight with the hiring of a single person. (True, Jordan drove almost all of the success of those Bulls teams, but didn't happen in a single year, and he had a great supporting cast). I look at it this way, if you took a very poorly performing company (say Enron), and inserted a phenomenal GM (or CEO in this case), like say a Jack Welch, it would take years to instill a culture of winning and the processes to make winning a reality. Hiring a good GM is possibly the first step, but it's naive to assume that even the best GM in the league could fix things quickly here.

What I'm really saying is that I hear all of the fans looking for quick fixes or looking for a single person or decision to hang the blame on. It seems that the short sighted culture and win-now attitude that these very fans (myself included) are demonstrating and calling for is a large part of the problem. Danny's biggest fault in my mind is that he acts too much like a fan playing in a fantasy league and takes too many drastic steps (like hiring Spurrier and dumping Marty, dumping Brad J, dumping Norv during a potential playoff run, too many free agency signings to list here, the TJ Duckett trade, on and on and on). In our glory days, JKC, Gibbs, and Beatherd made MANY unpopular decisions that led to stability, consistency, and a winning culture.

Posted by: John - Charlotte, NC | November 21, 2006 9:03 PM | Report abuse

Maske is blogging his guts out over there. Up here, everyone's blogging talent is pretty equal. We're all in this together. Maske has some great fans, and they really come out to support him. He's got to find out where he is, and where he wants to be, before he decides that where he is and where he wants to be will require him to figure out where he wants to go.

For future reference, the definition of "is":
(3rd person singular present of be)
a verb used most commonly to link the subject of a clause to a complement in order to give more information about the subject, e.g. its identity, nature, attributes, position, or value

Posted by: P Diddy | November 21, 2006 9:21 PM | Report abuse

snyder listens to the fans/acts as fans

john, that's exactly why we need someone in there to say NO to him and to the coaches. and someone to make sound decisions even if not popular. yes, you're right letting Trent Green go, mike martz(THE REAL F-ing ARCHITECHT OF ST. LUIS OFFENSE)go, brad johnson go was fans' moves but not a REAL GM's move. Casserly was fired because he didn't like norv. and Snyder chose to fire the GM. (wrong move at that point even snyder admitted so much later on to casserly).

we're not saying that hiring a gm is a quick solution. we're saying it's the ONLY solution.

i don't even care if snyder makes cerrato the gm. because for all we know cerrato was against all these bad moves. long as the HC and the DC aren't picking the players.

sorry john, but i'm done. gotta go nee nee

Posted by: dealer | November 21, 2006 9:28 PM | Report abuse

diddy, looks like the wapo critics are agreeing with you on Jay Z's album...

Posted by: dealer | November 21, 2006 9:31 PM | Report abuse

how about a t-shirt, sign that says "hey al, mike martz wants his playbook back"

Posted by: dealer | November 21, 2006 9:33 PM | Report abuse


wrapping up a loong day here and just had to LMAO. you were BYGO today!!!

BYGO - blogging your guts out!!!!

Posted by: skinsfan@8KaboveMSL | November 21, 2006 9:51 PM | Report abuse

Looks like Snyder Gibbs and Vinny still have some die hard support from Kol Aid drinkers in North Carolina, coincidentally prime Nascar turf as well.

I'd like to point out a couple o' items of note.

Gibbs is conflicted. He has a lack of consistent principles himself. Notice his "core Redskin" talk has vanished. Core Redskin means don't ever talk back or talk bad about the coaches or schemes, and take less money to stay with the team. For all his troubles off the field, Fred Smoot could cover guys, and played for the Redskins with a crushed sternum or something where he had to sleep in a recliner and take special beathing treatments. Thats tough, bordering on Ronnie lot, sever the broken pinky at the joint so I can play, throw-back tough. We let him walk. Peirce was a "super hard study guy" who sat quietly for years before he played and blossomed, we let him walk.

Gibbs publicly loves character guys like James Thrash and Brunel, but agrees to put up with talented guys with no character, Sean Taylor, Lloyd (a known locker room cancer). He yanks the leash on Ramsey after promising him the start (we'll never know how things might have turned out,) and yet lets Brunel have tons of bad games.

A few investigative questions are requested for JLAC;

What do league sources/GM's think of "the disciplined system based defensive approach, vs. the "star system" where playmakers are free to make big plays within the system? There was lots of talk about this when the D was performing, that previous systems allowed Stars like LaVar, Champ, Bruce Smith, Trotter, to do whatever they wanted. Can any correlation be made to Clark, Peirce, Smoot, La Var, or Bailey all knowing the losing would continue with the Redskins and that affecting their decisions to go elsewhere for only a few bucks more. While Champ was traded, he basically made comments (as did Smoot) about being sick of the losing. Do players want to be paid more to come to the Skins because of the losing? Do players stay longer with the Patriots or Steelers because they like to win?

What is the deal with the 07-08, salary cap. Since the season is over, who is up for free agency, and exactly what picks do we have next year. Will there be a "salary cap purge"? Can McIntosh be interviewed? League sources had him pegged as a starter for this year, what happened, since the skins won't talk, what are league sources saying.

Who is likely (league sources could comment again) to stay from amongst our running backs? Betts a goner? Will Jansen retire?

Posted by: WalkSoftly&Carry-a-big-hitting-middleLB | November 21, 2006 11:01 PM | Report abuse


My take: Sean Taylor has been a fabulous beast for us the last few years. He may be experiencing a "slight" fallback this season due to the rest of the D fallout. We need someone (Sean Taylor) on the team with a killer instinct. Lloyd is far from a cancer in this locker room - appears to be supportive and get along with everyone. I've met him - he's a great guy. Bailey was ready to leave - the team had been through turmoil (coaching turnovers,etc.) during his time here. Pierce said he really wanted to stay and would have but did not see any signs that the team really wanted to keep him - said he gave them every opportunity. Same for Clark. Smoot was offered a huge contract by MN and could not turn it down but he was happy here. LaVar - everyone knows his situation. I loved LaVar but honestly he brought a lot of it on himself when he accused the team of cheating him on his contract. It was his agents mistake but he blamed the Skins management. After that, he was pretty much in the dog house.

That being said, I will NEVER forgive Gibbs for the way he treated my man Ramsey - who was most definitely a stand up guy - one of the character guys Gibbs boasts about. Even writing about it makes me angry.

As to Rocky, word on the street is that he is too green to play other than on special teams.

Posted by: Anonymous | November 21, 2006 11:37 PM | Report abuse

What's up with TJ Duckett? Are the Skins refusing to use him because of the draft compensation issue? A 250 pounder who runs a 4.4 Forty is tough to stop if you give him 20 to 25 carries a game. The guy needs to play.

Also, isn't it about time that Snyder discounted parking prices?

Posted by: Anonymous | November 22, 2006 12:52 AM | Report abuse

In my 44 years as a season tix holder this is about the bottom of the barrel. So many problems too little time. Gotta start w/ Vinnie time to get the axe out, or get Kornheiser to put him on the bandwagon & run him outta town, need a one way ticket for that loser. Why did the Skins need a new Offensive genius did Gibbs not realize they won 5 in a row to close out 2005, too many changes if it ain't broke don't fix it. Should never have let A. Pierce leave here, should never have brought Portis here he's not JG's type of back. What is Buge's missing w/ this Oline that I'm seeing,how does Samuels even make these Pro Bowls most of the time he looks like he's blocking CASPER this Oline does more AIR BLOCKS than all the AIR GUITARS in the world. How come you gotta rotate all these Dlineman in & out of the game but you never rotate any Olineman whats up w/ that. Wasn't Sellers a TE & can't he block better than these 2 clowns Fauria & Yoder last year Sellers was the RED ZONE secret this year he's nonexistant WHY? They screwed around w/ John Hall & Vanderjagt was available didn't wanna pay him but loaded up on AA & AC what are they doing throwing darts or pinning the tail on the donkey in the dark w/ these FA picks. Jack Kent Cooke has got to be rolling over w/ the way THE SNYDER is running this team. I never was MADE to buy the Preseason practice games under him & was able to bring in my own quality food & beer. For $109 a seat I outta be able to bring in my own eats & drink. The fans need to boycott all the concession stands, the hot dogs suck the popcorn is mealy and the pretzels are usaually stale that food isn't suitable to send to the kids in Biafra. And THE SNYDER says he's fan friendly he's more fiendly what a JOKE from top to bottom. Think I'll put my whole package on EBAY next season & buy Direct TV & save about 7 grand. We don't need T Cruise in the stands we need talented players on the field. Stop bringing all these FA's here & then giving em a ride in a limo to load up on Filets's & Lobster what other owner in the league does that HORSE----, that sets the tone instantly of a country club atmosphere. Time to get back to SMASHMOUTH REDSKINS style of football & take no prisoners.

Posted by: jlamb from Florida | November 22, 2006 5:47 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone tell me what draft picks we have left for the 2007 draft? I see the Skins adding L's like Oprah adds lbs, and my greatest fear is that we've already sold the circus and won't be able to add talent in the draft. That said, who would you suggest we draft? I agree, there are no quick fixes, but damn, who can at least help in the draft, because I haven't seen anyone do that in years. Wouldn't it be fun to see a guy actually perform as a rookie...sans gun charges?

Posted by: John - Denver (no, in Denver) | November 22, 2006 12:41 PM | Report abuse

I am a cowboys fan, always have been, but I have been living in this area for 15 years. I used to enjoy the redskins, at some points I even still cheer them on, I live in the area and they are an area team.

All I have to say is that the situation here in Washington is bad for the whole NFL. Rivalry and other stuff aside, the big time paychecks, and the mishandling of the business end of this team has made the FANS and players really miss out.

Posted by: hard times | November 22, 2006 3:22 PM | Report abuse

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