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Could Holmgren Be the End Game?

Let me state this as clearly as I can: I do not think the Skins should make a coaching move. They had their pick of the litter for over a month back in January. Some candidates didn't want them then and I don't see that changing now. They plucked Jim Zorn from obscurity and said he would have time to implement a new West Coast system. And QB Jason Campbell was going to have stability ("continuity" and all). Sixteen games doesn't cut it as a legitimate shot to build a foundation.

I also don't see owner Daniel Snyder being willing to buy out another $8-$10 million in coaching salary - a year after complaining to other owners about eating about $12 million in departed staff - and then spending possibly double that to put a new staff together. But, of course, history teaches us that anything is possible and the rumors and speculation about Zorn are not going to go away (barring two straight wins to close this thing out). So here is the one person I will be watching closely, should the team decide to make a move:

Mike Holmgren.

He's the one guy who could fit the Snyder profile of a big-splash name (yeah, Snyder finally ended up with Zorn last time, but after 30 days of interviewing higher-profile candidates). Holmgren would be an older, vastly experienced coach -- the kind that Snyder has gone to in the past. Holmgren could fill that head coach/team president role that Joe Gibbs did. Holmgren could be in charge of personnel. He's leaving the Seahawks after the season as part of a process put in place a year ago, and though he's never been an East Coast guy, I hear that's not as big a stumbling block as some might think.

And Snyder wouldn't even have to blow out his current staff. Holmgren is one of the leaders of the West Coast system; he is Zorn's coaching mentor and has ties to defensive coordinator Greg Blache as well. He and Zorn are close and there is mutual admiration from their time together in Seattle, according to numerous sources, and Holmgren would have no problems working with Zorn again, the sources said.

In other words, if Holmgren, who will be out of a contract in two weeks and has talked of taking 2009 off, opts to stay in the game, I would expect Snyder to explore this option at the very least, even if he wanted to keep Zorn as head coach (and then let Holmgren be more of a president type).

While Holmgren, a Super Bowl winner in Green Bay, has said repeatedly that he plans to spend at least one year with his wife and family in Arizona, sources said that's not entirely written in stone and, that, while Holmgren has said coaching in 2009 would cost him his marriage, there is some wiggle room there. We all know that coaches have a way of changing their minds.

Some people close to Holmgren said it's not like the door on 2009 has been entirely slammed shut. When presented with this idea, of Zorn working under Holmgren, one person close to Holmgren did not blanche or dismiss the possibility.

Snyder has long admired Holmgren, league sources said, and by all accounts he's the kind of guy this owner would feel comfortable with in a position of authority. And it's no secret that even if Holmgren takes 2009 off, he will be looking to get back in by 2010 as a coach and/or GM. If the right possibility presents itself in 2009, might it be enough to sway him?

Holmgren could make the executive decisions, set the tone for the franchise, help pick players and work with Zorn to implement game plans and scheme things up. If Zorn were to retain playcalling duties in a scenario such as this hypothetical one, then so be it. Holmgren is a taskmaster and a notorious meddler, but Zorn already knows this and can handle it. And this type of situation would also allow Zorn to focus more exclusively in practice on the QBs, and Campbell's development.

Snyder could save face on the Zorn hire, saying that Zorn would learn a little more at Holmgren's side and be the guy to take over the whole thing again in 2011 or so, or whenever Holmgren retires for good. And while he'd be paying Holmgren a boatload of money - he wouldn't come cheap - he wouldn't' be paying 10-15 other men not to coach here.

Zorn would be a very-highly paid coordinator, sort of like Al Saunders. And if Zorn were to balk at that and walked away from another $6 million guaranteed at his age and with his experience and in this economy, then a guy like Holmgren would have no problem finding other top flight coordinators. Zorn could get a title like associate head coach, Sherman Smith (who also has strong Seattle ties) can remain offensive coordinator.

There also are rumblings that Jerry Jones has his eye on Holmgren, and some people in Dallas believe Wade Phillips is out as coach there no matter what happens with the Cowboys this season. And I don't think Dallas offensive coordinator Jason Garrett is even close to being a definite to replace Phillips at this point, as some presumed a year ago.

A Snyder/Jones tug-of-war over a coach would be something to see, eh?

So, needless to say, this is the one scenario that makes the most sense, provided the Skins decide to look for a coach. If Bill Cowher had wanted this job he'd have it; nothing has changed since then, and with 10 coaching jobs possibly open this winter, he will have his pick should he want to get back in coaching. Many coaches I speak to believe that Cowher's strong ties to Marty Schottenheimer - and Snyder's history with Schottenheimer - make that pairing unlikely, and Holmgren, unlike Cowher, has been in the game nonstop and not just working on TV for a while.

To be clearn, again, I am not reporting any of this Mike Holmgren stuff as a reality. Far from it. I'm just pondering an idea and making the calls as I do some reporting to see if it has legs.

Again, I am not saying that Zorn will be fired, and I don't think he should be. But if it becomes silly season around Redskins Park in January, and if we're looking at more coaching and front-office chaos, them Holmgren just might be the end game. Crazier things have happened in Ashburn, right?

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 17, 2008; 8:10 AM ET
 
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Next: An Unrestricted View on Zorn

Comments

I don't believe it!! I suggested this on here a couple of weeks back. Zorn to OC/QB coach and Holmgren to HC.

:)

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 8:25 AM | Report abuse

holmgren as gm in charge of all personel decisions, including player ego management. vinnie can stay as evp of football operations...blah blah...expand his radio show to 4 hours a day. zorn as coach with a mentor to help game plan...

Posted by: dcsportsfan1 | December 17, 2008 8:27 AM | Report abuse

I'd never object to good football minds being brought into Redskins park....

Wonder if Holmgren could/would be the offensive coordinator??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse

I too said something about this a few weeks back. Glad to see JLC is reading the blog again.

Posted by: alex35332 | December 17, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Wow JLC...I might actually bite on this one. I'm staunchly against a guy being GM/Coach--both jobs are too hard by themselves, much less combined. So if Holmgren came in as a GM type, he's got to be better than Vinny in his sleep. As a coach however, I think he's too old to oversee a rebuilding project. I think this is dreaming, but I'd be all for it if it were to go down.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Here we go again.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

I'm not taking a shot at JLC because I know he is being hypothetical.

I would not want Holmgren as a GM type he had those duties stripped in Seattle because he sucked at that job.

He was not the GM in Green Bay when they one the SB, he did not get those players.

One more thing if Zorn took a demotion to OC or assistant head coach, then he would lose all respect with the players and the fans. I would look at him as a spineless coward.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse

ah JLC, ..... you give us reason to dream and hope... wouldn't that be a fun offseason.
and wouldn't it be fun to win the lottery!
the hypothetical situation, although I really enjoy it, would be too good for the redskins. Danny is not capable of giving someone else the reigns yet. IT took him over 10 years to actually name a GM. Where Vinny is a front man, but Danny still pulls the strings... No one man, not even Gibbs has been able to come in here and pull those strings from Danny. and Holmgren as president would certainly do that... so, let's just get ready for another unpredictably senseless off season...

Posted by: aintlifegrand | December 17, 2008 8:38 AM | Report abuse

If you want to get a new GM there are plenty of qualified guys out there.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:39 AM | Report abuse

I can see it now just like with Jason Taylor. JLC praising the move and then when it doesn't work out blasting the team just as he did with Taylor. As if he was against the move from the start.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Flound, is that true about holgrem?? I was unaware of him being stripped of those duties...not good.

I'd still bring him in to be the OC however....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Does anyone think the Dolphins would be in the playoff picture if Parcells doesn't take over the FO there? Maybe letting a successful former super bowl winning coach come shake up our FO wouldn't be such a bad thing.

My main concern is that didn't Holmgren have his GM duties taken away from him in Seattle awhile back? Was it because of the workload being too much or because his personnel decisions were questioned?

Posted by: will_ga | December 17, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse

from scout.com

Link to the full story.

http://sea.scout.com/2/816748.html

The Draft

Mike Holmgren ranks as one of the worst GM's for drafting during the 1999 to 2002 seasons (see rankings below). It is widely accepted that players drafted during the first round should be at least starters on a team. The second and third rounds should provide needed depth and an occasional starter. Rounds 4 through 7 are typically unpredictable, but most assume that it is a "bonus" if any player drafted past round 3 makes the team.

Holmgren drafted 38 players during his GM years, with 6 first round picks. Of those 38 players, only 5 became consistent productive starters - Shaun Alexander, Darrell Jackson, Steve Hutchinson, Ken Lucas, and Rocky Bernard. Obviously, trying to rank the rest of the drafted players has an element of subjectivity. It would appear that the Seahawks produced a total of 8 productive draft picks (players making a significant contribution for their team, for a significant period of time), during the four years in question. This number should be much higher, especially considering the 6 first round picks. Of the 6 first round draft picks,

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I can see it now just like with Jason Taylor. JLC praising the move and then when it doesn't work out blasting the team just as he did with Taylor. As if he was against the move from the start.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage

----------

How many times did JLC say in his post, "I don't think the Skins should make a coaching move"? Twice? 3 times?

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse

I harbor no serious illusions of making the playoffs, hardly any really. But is it still possible? A quick glance seems to suggest our only chance would be winning out and Dallas, Atlanta and Tampa/Carolina losing out. Even then I'm not sure we have all the tiebreaks...anybody know? Thanks.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | December 17, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse

I personally wouldn't want this. I'd support a Holmgren as OC move, but I find that highly, highly unlikely. And I don't want him as GM. Seattle never had highly talented teams. Great schemes (schemes that would allow even Shaun Alexander to be an MVP), but not extremely talented.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

How many times did JLC say in his post, "I don't think the Skins should make a coaching move"? Twice? 3 times?

Posted by: psps23 |

How many times did he say it was a good move to get Jason Taylor? Two or three times. How many times did he blast the move after the fact in the last two weeks? 5-6 times.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

http://sea.scout.com/2/816748.html

I think that answers why he was stripped!

Posted by: will_ga | December 17, 2008 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I was unaware of him being stripped of those duties...not good.

Every couple of years, a good coach switches teams because he gets the deal where he can do all the things that he perceives as limitations in his current job. Holmgren left GB for Seattle with the promise that he could be both GM and coach.
Shanahan left Oakland for Denver.
Cowher's next job will demand it.
Pete Carroll will leave USC when he gets that deal.

This NEVER works. (Or, if it has, I don't recall it). It's not that the skills are not transferable; but it could be that there aren't enough hours in the day, or that there needs to be some 'creative tension' between the GM and the coach.

Posted by: daggar | December 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Report abuse

From 1999 until 2002 when Holmgren had his GM title stripped from him the Seahawks ranked 27th in the league in drafting players.

For all of you who hate our drafts of those years this is 9 places below us.

Holmgren is no Parcells.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

I love the internet, here is a story from less than a month ago about how Mike was as a GM.

http://sea.scout.com/2/816748.html

Posted by: alex35332 | December 17, 2008 8:50 AM | Report abuse

I would not want Holmgren as a GM type he had those duties stripped in Seattle because he sucked at that job.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:36 AM

No, he was stripped of that title because he sucked at doing BOTH jobs at the same time. I don't think ANYONE can do that successfully. If he devoted all his time to that one job (GM) I think he'd be light years better than Vinny and I would be happy to let him try.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

I harbor no serious illusions of making the playoffs, hardly any really. But is it still possible? A quick glance seems to suggest our only chance would be winning out and Dallas, Atlanta and Tampa/Carolina losing out. Even then I'm not sure we have all the tiebreaks...anybody know? Thanks.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG

Aren't we already out? Dallas, Atlanta, and Tampa all have 9 wins. Philly has 8 and a tie. Dallas and Philly play each other, so one of them will automatically be ahead of us.

Maybe Atlanta and Tampa losing out, and one of either Dallas and Philly also? Coupled with us winning out, of course.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Report abuse

Is this what the WaPost pays you to do JLC? You call yourself a sports writer? When was the last time a Head Coach got demoted and stayed on the same team. Please enlighten me. I am sure if Zorn was asked to step down he would leave the organization and take his 6 million with him since he did not officialy quit, he was asked to step down.

Posted by: jmich001 | December 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Report abuse

flound, thanks, um....no to Holmgren as the GM then....

I'd bring him in to help with the offense, in a quick minute.

Ok, watching DMcnabb the other night, if the Redskins aren't able to pressure him, he's just gonna pick them apart. I hope Blache has a plan in place to get some pressure on him, otherwise this could get ugly quick.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren would be crazy to come here if he has to work with Vinny regarding personel matters. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Vinny is a horrible cook anyway. If Snyder would get rid of his buddy Vinny, then maybe.

Posted by: kmichael76 | December 17, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Here is an overview of the Job that Holmgren did as GM…


Year 1999

RD 1 - Lamar King DE
RD 3 - Brock Huard
RD 3 - Karsten Bailey
RD 4 - Antonio Cochran
RD 5 - Floyd Wedderburn
RD 5 - Charlie Rogers
RD 6 - Steve Johnson

Free Agents: Michael Sinclair - Resigned

Trades: James McKnight - 3rd Rd Pick

Record: 9-7

Year 2000

RD 1 - Shaun Alexander
RD 1 - Chris McIntosh
RD 2 - Ike Charlton
RD 3 - Darrell Jackson
RD 4 - Marcus Bell
RD 4 - Isiah Kacyvenski
RD 6 - James Williams
RD 6 - Tim Watson
RD 6 - John Hilliard

Free Agents: S Reggie Tongue, C Robbie Tobeck (doesn't play until 2001, IR), MLB George Koonce

Trades: Joey Galloway - two 1st round picks, Ahman Green for Fred Vinson

Other Moves: FA Phillip Daniels signs with Bears, FA Sam Adams signs with Ravens, PK Todd Peterson Released.

Record: 6-10

Year 2001

RD 1 - Koren Robinson
RD 1 - Steve Hutchinson
RD 2 - Ken Lucas
RD 3 - Heath Evans
RD 4 - Orlando Huff
RD 4 - Curtis Fuller
RD 4 - Floyd Womack
RD 5 - Alex Bannister
RD 6 - Josh Booty
RD 7 - Harold Blackmon
RD 7 - Dennis Norman
RD 7 Kris Kocurek

Free Agents: DT John Randle, DT Chad Eaton, LB Levon Kirkland, S Marcus Robertson, QB Trent Dilfer, WR Bobby Engram.

Trades: Matt Hasselbeck - 3rd & swap 1st

Other Moves: S Jay Bellamy Released, FA Jon Kitna signs with Bengals, DT Cortez Kennedy Released, FA Pete Kendall Signs with Falcons.

Record: 9-7

Year 2002

RD 1 - Jeremy Stevens
RD 2 - Maurice Morris
RD 2- Anton Palepoi
RD 3 - Kris Richard
RD 4 - Terreal Bierra
RD 5 - Rocky Bernard
RD 5 - Ryan Hannam
RD 5 - Matt Hill
RD 6 - Craig Jarrett
RD 7 - Jeff Kelly

Free Agents: CB Doug Evans, DL Brandon Mitchell, QB Ryan Leaf, QB Mark Rypien, RT Jerry Wunsch, QB Jeff George, RT Chris Terry (waivers), LB DD Lewis.

Trades: Brock Huard - 4th round pick.

Other Moves: DE Sinclair Released, MLB Kirkland Released.

Record: 7-9

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:53 AM | Report abuse

Yes Holmgren was not good as GM while he was coach.'

But come on, the dude has been around football for eons... he HAS to be better than vinny. No to coach, yes to mentor and GM...

Posted by: Zeebs | December 17, 2008 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Brownwood,

I know it is very hard to do both jobs, nut trust me he would suck as a GM even if that is all he did.

Look at the way he drafted in Seattle.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Flounder, looks to me like his draft was 1) better than the Skins over that period and 2)the bedrock of a team that won a few division titles and went to the Super Bowl a few years back.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse

If all it takes to be a good GM is to have been around football for a long time then why not just make Buges GM.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 8:59 AM | Report abuse

"JLC praising the move"

Posted by: icetotalpackage

So you mean, "JLC praising the non-move."

And for the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with blasting "after the fact", regardless of what your position was prior. Tennessee will not get credit for drafting Vince Young should he be a colossal bust. Arizona will not get credit for drafting Leinart. Nobody apologizes for Matt Millen for drafting Charles Rogers and Joey Harrington. It is not okay to be inept just because what you did didn't seem inept at the time the move was made.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Sorry Flounder, looks to me like his draft was 1) better than the Skins over that period and 2)the bedrock of a team that won a few division titles and went to the Super Bowl a few years back.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 8:58 AM |

I put up the rankings we were ranked 9 places higher then them over those years in the draft.

I respect your opinions but I trust a site that does nothing but rank drafts and players more then you.

Also if we played in that sorry a$$ division we would have one 4-5 titles.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

"To be clear, again, I am not reporting any of this Mike Holmgren stuff as a reality. Far from it. I'm just pondering an idea and making the calls as I do some reporting to see if it has legs."

I think this says it all. You wasted your time and ours with this nonsense.

Posted by: keino83 | December 17, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Buges would still be a step up from Vinny.

Agree to disagree, Flouder. There's no track record on Holmgren as a GM alone so neither one of us knows for sure. All I'm saying is that it's worth the gamble since Vinny CLEARLY isn't the answer.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Flound, thats not a good showing, other than trading Galloway for 2 firsts, it was awful.

Wasn't Lamar King from like a div. 1-a school or something like that?? Saginaw Valley?? Went to the combine and blew it up, then came to the pro's and stunk.

I wouldn't have drafted Jeremy Stevens after all that happened with him in college, not in 100 years.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

I've been pondering the possibility of Zorn hiring Holmgren to help JZ with his assessment of the coaching staff. So bringing MH in as GM mades some sense also. Especially after 2008's draft.

Posted by: frediefritz | December 17, 2008 9:02 AM | Report abuse

"This NEVER works."

I'm pretty sure Shanahan in Denver worked out (or is he not the GM anymore?). And Jimmy Johnson in Dallas.

Highly unlikely, yes. NEVER? I wouldn't say that.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Team, Total Draft Picks, Starters, Consistent Producers, % Quality Players, 1999 to 2002 Rank)


Indianapolis Colts 29 7 4 38% 1st
New York Jets 27 6 4 37% 2nd
Denver Broncos 36 8 5 36% 3rd
New Orleans Saints 26 6 3 35% 4th
Green Bay Packers 37 9 4 35% 4th
Philadelphia Eagles 31 6 5 35% 4th
Cincinnati Bengals 29 7 3 34% 7th
Carolina Panthers 29 7 3 34% 7th
Baltimore Ravens 27 6 3 33% 9th
Oakland Raiders 28 2 7 32% 10th
St. Louis Rams 31 4 6 32% 10th
Jacksonville Jaguars 38 8 3 29% 12th
Kansas City Chiefs 28 2 6 28.5% 13th
Tennessee Titans 35 7 2 26% 14th
Chicago Bears 37 5 5 26% 14th
Buffalo Bills 39 5 5 25.5% 16th
Miami Dolphins 28 5 2 25% 17th
Washington Redskins 29 4 3 24% 18th
San Francisco 49ers 37 4 5 24% 18th
Minnesota Vikings 34 5 3 23.5% 20th
New England Patriots 35 6 2 23% 21st
San Diego Chargers 30 4 3 23% 21st
New York Giants 30 4 3 23% 21st
Pittsburg Steelers 35 7 1 23% 21st
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 31 2 5 22.5% 25th
Cleveland Browns 40 3 6 22.5% 25th
Seattle Seahawks 38 5 3 21% 27th
Detroit Lions 28 4 2 21% 27th
Dallas Cowboys 32 4 2 19% 29th
Atlanta Falcons 34 3 3 18% 30th
Houston Texans 12 1 1 17% 31st
Arizona Cardinals 37 4 1 13.5% 32nd

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:04 AM | Report abuse

If Holmgren replaced Vinny, i would take back half of everything i have ever said about danny boy.

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 17, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren would be a great replacement for that retard who calls himself Vinny

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

flound, there you go, bringing facts to the table....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Report abuse

From 1999 until 2002 when Holmgren had his GM title stripped from him the Seahawks ranked 27th in the league in drafting players.

For all of you who hate our drafts of those years this is 9 places below us.

Holmgren is no Parcells.

Posted by: Flounder21

Damn you mean someone was worse than us. Hard to believe that after reading the blog. lol

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Please people....this has NO legs. JLC is "pondering" this....he has heard nothing to even assume this is a possibility.

Chris Mortenson (who actually knows people in the NFL) was asked about Holmgren this morning on Mike & Mike and Mortenson NEVER mentioned the Skins as a possibility for Holmgren - he did mention Dallas if they fall out of playoff contention (or go 1 and out) - said Holmgren and Jones are tight.

And I'm really getting sick of JLC talking about Snyder always firing coaches. That was 5 YEARS AGO. I'm not a Snyder fan but it's sickening to constantly read about things he did years and years ago (coaches, big free agents) - that has not happened in the last few years (Jason Taylor was perceived a necessity).

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 17, 2008 9:11 AM | Report abuse

Lisa, thanks for the piece about Mort.

I'm ready to talk about Philly....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

Nevermind. I take back what I said, after reading some of the previous posts about Holmgren as GM. I just thought he would at least be better than Vin, but evidently thats not the case.

Posted by: REDneckSKINhead | December 17, 2008 9:13 AM | Report abuse

"I'm not a Snyder fan but it's sickening to constantly read about things he did years and years ago (coaches, big free agents) - that has not happened in the last few years (Jason Taylor was perceived a necessity).

Posted by: Lisa_R"

As if a "perceived necessity" negates the fact that this FO overpaid for a big name, past his prime player. Had the Bengals pulled the trigger on our moronically proposed trade for Chad Johnson, that would have been a "perceived necessity" too.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 9:15 AM | Report abuse

psps23 yes a person can say that a move is bad after the fact. However, to come across as all knowing and as if you was against the move from the start is just weak.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 9:16 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure the next story will be a sighting of Redskins 1 in the pacific northwest.

Posted by: The_Spear | December 17, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse

And I'm really getting sick of JLC talking about Snyder always firing coaches. That was 5 YEARS AGO. I'm not a Snyder fan but it's sickening to constantly read about things he did years and years ago (coaches, big free agents) - that has not happened in the last few years (Jason Taylor was perceived a necessity).

It's a good thing that the things that an organization does in the past has absolutely no effect on the present.

However, to come across as all knowing and as if you was against the move from the start is just weak.

I missed the blog post where he pretended he was against it from the start, can you link?

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 17, 2008 9:26 AM | Report abuse

After reading some articles and other posts i have changed my mind. I do not want MH as gm. But the fact remains that if Vinny is fired i will be happy

Posted by: NFeKPo | December 17, 2008 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I give Jimmy Johnson alot of credit for how he rebuilt the Cowgirls, he came in a cleaned house traded good players on the team for picks.

Sure they went 1-15 that first year but for what they did after that I would except a 1-15 year if it produced 3 SB.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse

Could Vince Lombardi's re-animated corpse be the end game?

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 9:34 AM | Report abuse

By saying Holmgren is not a good GM, I'm not saying Vinny should not be replaced, but if you are going to give the reins to someone else make it a guy with a track record of being a very good GM.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

I would like to talk about Philly as well but I just see the same old offense against Philly, and then the same old excuses after the game as to why we lost.

If we go out and try some new things on offense and still lose that is OK with me. But if we run the same tired sh!t then maybe Zorn is not the anwser.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Since we are dreaming out loud...

The rumors are that Phil Savage might be out in Cleveland. By his own doing or fired. Now I know Cleveland aint exactly lit the world on fire, but this guy is a good GM, who isnt afraid to make moves. Cleveland actually has very good talent and underachieved on the field.

So why not snatch up savage who is prolly ready for a higher profile job than the baorderline expansion Browns. Can Vinny but keep Zorn. This way you give ZORN the chance to work directly with a GM to build his vision. If Zorn tanks than Savage gets his chance to pick a coach.

Oh and in this scenario, we keep Morocco Brown, make him number 2 and continue to groom him.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Report abuse

"but if you are going to give the reins to someone else make it a guy with a track record of being a very good GM."

Or, target a hungry up n comer with a good record of excelling at the jobs/tasks he has been given in the Jerry Reece mold....i.e. Morocco Brown

Also I don't want to talk about the Philly game....going to be ugly.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Any of these scenarios would involve getting rid of Vinnie and that ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Could not agree more, like I said before, if Zorn changes nothing, then he doesn't get it, and that to me represents a HUGE problem. If at the end of the game, Portis is the only one who has carried the ball, and Betts/ARE/Davis/Thomas/Kelly/Sellers combined have 3 catches, then, systemically, this offense is completely disfunctional and Zorn needs to go, because he's too proud/arrogant/ignorant to change.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 9:46 AM | Report abuse

duh Etrod, but a boy can dream...if we can't fantasize what fun is even being a skins fan.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Or, target a hungry up n comer with a good record of excelling at the jobs/tasks he has been given in the Jerry Reece mold....i.e. Morocco Brown

Also I don't want to talk about the Philly game....going to be ugly.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:44 AM |

CL,

That would be fine as well, I think Morocco would make a great GM or pluck someone from another team who has been groomed for the job.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:49 AM | Report abuse

i've been pondering the possiblity of me getting rich doing the same thing over and over everyday. i say maybe someone leaves a briefcase full of money. but then i rember i would have to turn that in and only after 30 days will that money become mine. and i ponder how i would spend those 30 agonizing days. and what if the police steals the money. so then i ponder of other ways to get rich doing the same thing every day. like getting blindsided by a maybach driven by snyder, losing a couple of my limbs but what if he has a super duper lawyer i'll have no chance. so then i start pondering again of getting rich by doing the same thing over and over everyday, hoping, praying i get lucky one day. but i don't even play the lottery. so i ponder and ponder again...what if someone just came up to me and said "here's $2M i want you to have it. it's yours. no strings attached." yeah, that would work.

Posted by: dealer1 | December 17, 2008 9:50 AM | Report abuse

OE,

You looking for some Jibba-Jabba, start something up I will run with you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Let's see resurrected the Packers from obscurity and failure back to prominence and respectability, got the Seahawks who were a joke to a super bowl and many division titles, has ties to our staff and ability to take personnel duties away from Vinny, what's not to like here, Danny give him a blank check PLZ!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, and prevents Jones from getting him, even better!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I don't like the idea. I think Holmgren has not been the greatest evaluator of talent in Seattle and he certainly doesn't have the hot hand coming out of Seattle this season. If Zorn goes, I think the team needs to look for an innovator. How about this name: Dan Henning. Henning was the offensive coordinator under Gibbs for one Super Bowl and is the current mastermind behind Miami's offensive rise. The guy has former head coaching experience and if he can build his staff, I like his chances. If Zorn stays, there wouldn't be a thing in the world wrong with bringing in Henning with a mandate to Zorn that Henning calls the plays. This, too, would allow Zorn more time to work with the QB's.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | December 17, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Seattle has had a bad year because Hasselback and most of their defense got hurt, not because of Holmgren.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

this offense is completely disfunctional and Zorn needs to go, because he's too proud/arrogant/ignorant to change.

Posted by: BeantownGreg |


I am with you on this B and believe we are going to see the same ol sht from Zorn.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Wha? Dan Henning is the classic coordinator not HC. Failed in Atlanta and SD. No thank you. He has also worn out his welcome at few of his many OC stops. Dude is the Offensive version of Ray Rhodes.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:55 AM | Report abuse

this would be a GREAT, GREAT, GREAT move IF, and ONLY IF Vinnie gets "transferred" to Chief Executive In Charge of Hot Dog Vendors.

JUST DO IT, DANNY!

Posted by: kone | December 17, 2008 9:56 AM | Report abuse

Let's see resurrected the Packers from obscurity and failure back to prominence and respectability, got the Seahawks who were a joke to a super bowl and many division titles, has ties to our staff and ability to take personnel duties away from Vinny, what's not to like here, Danny give him a blank check PLZ!

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 9:52 AM |

zj,

He coached the Packers to the SB but Ron Wolf baught all the groceries.

He got the seahawks to the SB 3 years after someone else took over as GM.

Division titles in that Sh!tty division are not all that special.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

jm, I feel the same way, but I can't wrap my mind around how JZ can't change things up. I just can't grasp him not changing anything. I mean, if JZ doesn't see it, then someone on his staff, Sherm Smith, Buges, Stump, SOMEONE has to MAN UP, and say something about his its not working out.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

You are forgetting one thing: Until Snyder gets rid of Vinny, you just wasted a whole bunch of space/time writing all of this. Holmgren, Cohwer, NOBODY wants this job with that boob making decisions. Hell they couldn't even get the defensive coordinator for the Giants to take the job (He did turn it down) because of Vinny. You really think Holmgren is going to come here to be the coach with Vinny picking items for the buffet none the less players? You're crazy. As long as Vinny is in place the Redskins will NEVER get anything other than another Zorn to take the job no matter how much money Dan Snyder is willing to pay them.

Posted by: virtueandvice | December 17, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse

zj,

I agree that Homgren is a good coach but GM no thanks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

jm, I feel the same way, but I can't wrap my mind around how JZ can't change things up. I just can't grasp him not changing anything. I mean, if JZ doesn't see it, then someone on his staff, Sherm Smith, Buges, Stump, SOMEONE has to MAN UP, and say something about his its not working out.

Posted by: BeantownGreg

I give you a name that will help you grasp it. Bush!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 10:03 AM | Report abuse


Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 16, 2008 6:25 PM | Report abuse

The more we have this discussion, the less I understand what angle you are coming from; so I'll try this one more time...

First, if you've ever been to the stadium, you'll know that people are standing in lines at halftime. That is a fact. They aren't boycotting the game for lack of support. And I don't know what your angle is. So if fans did more tailgating and instituted a "no-long-lines-rule" at halftime, and organized themselves to go pee in bathroom shifts during commercial breaks, we would be better fans? I don't understand your angle.

Second, prices are high. That is a fact. This year Skins tix are 10th most expensive in the league. That is on the high end and that is a fact. Whether you think this complaint is "old" is irrelevant. The question is whether it is "true". Every year I come across more and more people who are giving up their season tix b/c they can't afford it (like my family a few years back). The fans of oppossing teams only need to save their $$ for ONE of these games - the game in which their team is coming to town. The average fan is going to spring for 8 of these games. That makes it far more expensive for the home fan. When you have the biggest stadium in football with the most tickets available, that means there is a higher numerical likelihood that MORE away fans are going to get their hands on more tix than in a smaller stadium.

The stadium is inconvenient to get to. That is a fact. It is not metro accessible like many other city stadiums. I've been to RFK, Meadowlands, M&T Bank. I've been to the stadium complex in Philly. I've been to baseball games at Nats Stadium and Camden Yards. Of all of those places, FedEX is the worst/most inconvenient place to get to, to park, and to leave.

The bottom line is that you want to overgeneralize about a large group of people - "the fans are fairweather" - when there are plenty of reasons to explain the observations that you brought up.

Posted by: p1funk | December 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

(I haven't read any comments but I hope my thoughts aren't 1st to be written)

STOP PIMPING HOLGREM TO US. WE ARE NOT SUCKERS.

Didn't holgrem get his GM dutied pulled and one year later they went to the SB?

Where is Holgrem's track record as a President/GM? It's terrible!

Quit...Just Quit it........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

I can wait to see the Source Meter today.

They should call that show Redskins Insider Nation.

PS - Very interesting idea J-La. You can thank E.B. for the plug.

PPS - Don't bother thanking E.B. he's a bit of a blow-hard.

Posted by: WaPoLiveFan16 | December 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Report abuse

OE,

You looking for some Jibba-Jabba, start something up I will run with you.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Man, I thought Vince Lombardi's re-animated corpse would have kicked of a a little zombie talk. I guess I should have gone with Knute Rockne.

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

zj,

I agree that Homgren is a good coach but GM no thanks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Its not humanly possible to do worse than Vinny, if Holmgren's name alone is enough to squeeze Vinny out, I say go for it, whatever it takes. Is he an awesome GM? probably not, but he can't be worse than what we have now. Give him full control and promote Marocco to scout for him....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse

(I haven't read any comments but I hope my thoughts aren't 1st to be written)

STOP PIMPING HOLGREM TO US. WE ARE NOT SUCKERS.

Didn't holgrem get his GM dutied pulled and one year later they went to the SB?

Where is Holgrem's track record as a President/GM? It's terrible!

Quit...Just Quit it........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:04 AM |

DaReal,

No it's been laid out in detail.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Its not humanly possible to do worse than Vinny, if Holmgren's name alone is enough to squeeze Vinny out, I say go for it, whatever it takes. Is he an awesome GM? probably not, but he can't be worse than what we have now. Give him full control and promote Marocco to scout for him....

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:06 AM |

I never said he would be worse then Vinny, but if Snyder is going to make a change I would want someone better the Holmgren.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

The only fix to this franchise and team is getting Vinny out of a position of power, and if that can only happen by firing Zorn and a big name coming in then fine, do it and do it now. Zorn seems like a nice guy and may one day be a good coach, but has done nothing to prove it while Vinny has done plenty to prove he is the downfall of this entire franchise, so if it takes a Holmgren or a Cowher to get him out, then I hope Danny is starstruck.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

As long as they're tied to Vinnie being swept away, I don't give a crap who the head coach/prez is. They can't be any WORSE than this cluster.

Posted by: kone | December 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Report abuse

And I'm really getting sick of JLC talking about Snyder always firing coaches. That was 5 YEARS AGO. I'm not a Snyder fan but it's sickening to constantly read about things he did years and years ago (coaches, big free agents) - that has not happened in the last few years (Jason Taylor was perceived a necessity).

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 17, 2008 9:11 AM

Actually, he hasn't fired a HC since 2001 (MartyBall). So he has been doing good for 7+ years.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:12 AM | Report abuse

Savage went the Redskin route trading away all their draft picks for "proven" players. Look where it got them. I don't know why we keep talking about this anyway. We are saddled with Vinny unless he gets run over by a bus. Not that I would wish that on him. But then again I can't take the Redskins ruining my Sept-Dec. Sundays for the forseeable future.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

I never said he would be worse then Vinny, but if Snyder is going to make a change I would want someone better the Holmgren.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse

There are plenty of good GM's out there right now, but that will never happen, the only way Vinny goes is if a big name wants full control, so go get the name I say, may not be the best option but when have the Skins for the last decade chosen the best option? never, and they won't this time either, but maybe they'll at least choose a better option by the big name simply because it can't get worse then Vinny so any choice that ends up with him losing power is a good thing to me.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

In the event that we did hire a zombie for a head coach, this might come in handy:
http://www.nerdtests.com/mq/take.php?id=6516

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 10:14 AM | Report abuse

This is from a competing paper, but really does a great job of breaking down the personal decisions of 2006, which is what really doomed this team.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/17/errors-of-06-offseason-wont-go-away/

Posted by: heyjoe728 | December 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

I would except putting Holmgren in say a Parcells role and then let Morocco be GM.

He can still mentor Zorn and he can spend more time with his family.

I wrote last week though that I think Snyder would not enjoy owning the team if he gave up all authority on players. I think he enjoys the player acquisition stuff more then anything, he is like some of us on Madden except he has a real team.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren would be an awful pick for GM. Just stop it JLa.


Let's talk Salary cap and Albert Hanesworth.

Posted by: Gweez | December 17, 2008 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Peter King was on Mike and Mike in the morning reporting this as a possibity at 6:30am. Now you see where JLC got it.

Posted by: skinz1 | December 17, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Thx skinz1....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

I would welcome Holmgren as President / GM if only to be a strong personality to keep Snyder straight and relegate Vinnie back to just a personnel guy.

The combination of Holmgren as GM / HC did not work well in Seattle.

Holmgren as President / GM would be great.

Posted by: daddy00 | December 17, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Just say NO to Haynesworth......there would be 31 other teams he would help....butt you know that if we sign him it will be a bloated injury prone show me the money disastor.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Let's talk Salary cap and Albert Hanesworth.

Haynesworth?

Yes, please god let this team pay way too much money for a recently injured free agent lineman who isn't getting any younger...

It's worked out so well before.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 17, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse

"STOP PIMPING HOLGREM TO US. WE ARE NOT SUCKERS.

Didn't holgrem get his GM dutied pulled and one year later they went to the SB?

Where is Holgrem's track record as a President/GM? It's terrible!

Quit...Just Quit it........"

Agreed...this will NEVER happen. Can't we talk Eagles? Still some season left.

Posted by: Masonman | December 17, 2008 10:25 AM | Report abuse

We need to find the next Haynesworth and draft him.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Gweez;

Haynesworth, Jordan Gross, Suggs or Peppers, Dansby and if Hall leaves Dunta Robinson

Posted by: Zeebs | December 17, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Masonman - This is the FIRST time EVER I saw a Redskins team already talking about the offseason like the season is already over, AND we still have a mathmatical chance of getting in the playoffs. Sure, every team ahead of us has to lose this week, but this is the NF of L, and I wouldn't call it far fetched.

This is on JZ because he said the season is over and though we have a chance, it's not worth fighting for.

JZ has given up on this team and it's possible alot of the team has check out already.

Now, that's sad.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Haynesworth is fools gold for the skins....please no.

Dansby would be nice upgrade at LB. Ken Harvey 2.0?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

We need to find the next Haynesworth and draft him.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

Actually we need to find the "next" DE, OLB, ILB, OT, Guard(s), Andre Johnson etc. in the draft just get Hanesworth.

I know what you mean CL but I disagree. I think DL are actually a position where they can change teams and are a known commodity. They really don't rely much on other positions or too much on schemes.

Posted by: Gweez | December 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

4th, wha? The Norv midseason fire season...The Marty season when the Spurrier watch started like week 13. This is hardly first time team has been in this position. Losing to 1 win team when playoffs were real possibility with a win has many consequences.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse

dareal,

Every team ahead of us would have to lose there last two games, and we would actually have to win two games.

Not going to happen but I love your optimism.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Or, target a hungry up n comer with a good record of excelling at the jobs/tasks he has been given in the Jerry Reece mold....i.e. Morocco Brown

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 9:44 AM

The difference between Morocco and Jerry Reese is that Reese worked with a bona fide GM who showed him how to get it done. Morocco doesn't have that luxury...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

CL - I said he hasn't fired any HC since 2001. Spurrier faxed in his resignation, but Snyder (and I) wanted him for a 3rd season.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

I am not argueing that DT is not a huge position. But Haynesworth has "typical redskins FA bust" written all over him like the goodyear blimp. Dude is already beat up.

Look at Jenkins with the jETS. dude made a huge difference for 8 weeks. But his size, his injuries and his rumored low motor are all showing up second half of the season and their defense is in tailspin..

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The difference between Morocco and Jerry Reese is that Reese worked with a bona fide GM who showed him how to get it done. Morocco doesn't have that luxury...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 10:37 AM |

May 21--Hampton native Morocco Brown, considered a rising star in the business of scouting and evaluating football talent, was hired by the Washington Redskins as director of pro personnel.

Brown, 32, spent the past seven years with the Chicago Bears as assistant director of pro personnel.

He has not always been with Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Morocco came from the bears right? The breath of his experience is not limited to Vinny.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

4th, i was reffering to your comment of never seeing a team that was discussing offseason in season...

And you wanted spurrier back...wow.?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

I know what you mean CL but I disagree. I think DL are actually a position where they can change teams and are a known commodity. They really don't rely much on other positions or too much on schemes.

Jason Taylor, Andre Carter, Bruce Smith, umm...there's more I'm sure...

And that's just on this team off the top of my head.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 17, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

We know what will happen with M. Brown right? He will serve with Skins 1 maybe 2 more years and than get a GM job with some team where he will kick azz, and we will still have Vinny.....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Flounder - Gibbs wouldn't look at it like that.

If you have an opportunity, you continue to fight.

*What if the Redskins would have gave up in the SB down 10-0 to Elway?

*What if the Bills packed it in at halftime of a non-sold out playoff game down by 35 points at the half?

*What if Gibbs packed it in at a MUCH WORST RECORD of 5-6 in 2005?

*What if we packed it in after Sean Taylor died and the team just drowned in their sorrows at 6-7?

*What if the Giants decided not to show up to play a perfect team going into the SB?

*What if Gibbs never looked at himself/coaching 3 games in his 1st year as head coach?

I mean I could keep going.

And IF the Cowboys/Falcons/And whoever else happen to lose, where would the 'Skins be if they don't plan for this scenario?

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Your "NFL Laughingstock St. Louis Rams" (TM, all rights reserved) are about to embark on a new coaching search, and apparently this time they will try to travel in proper style. That means this time no clowns stuffed into a tiny cab. That means this time they will be traveling down this occasionally rocky road guided by something a bit more substantial than wet fingers in the wind to serve as their GPS system.

According to Jim Thomas in today's Post-Dispatch, ownership will try to get this done the right way this time, relying on the real football men in the organization to conduct the search. And while one headline may be that current coach Jim Haslett's name is still very much in play as a candidate, the bigger news of the day is the strong comments by a team source that suggest that the bungling stranglehold that the John Shaw-Jay Zygmunt collective has held on this organization may at long last be coming to an end.

There it was right there in the middle of the story, some of the most beautiful words ever uttered by someone within the Rams organization.

"One of the most important things about this decision is that it is not in the hands of business people. ... The recommendation will come from football people."

Well, excuse me while I do the Electric Slide across the kitchen table.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:48 AM | Report abuse

cue Animal House and Meatballs speeches for 4th....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse

And you wanted spurrier back...wow.?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 10:41 AM

Yes, for continuity sakes. I believed Spurrier finally understood the NF of L and that he would change and adjust his protection to the QB.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

dareal,

I agree with you but this team is not going to win against Philly because there coach will not change his stupid offense.

And what Gibbs would do makes no difference he is in Charlotte.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren is going to play golf and do some TV work for at least a year, so forget it.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 17, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Yes, for continuity sakes. I believed Spurrier finally understood the NF of L and that he would change and adjust his protection to the QB.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:50 AM | Report abuse

hahahahhahahhahahahhahaaaaaaaaa

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

CL,

Agreed on Morocco, then Vinny will take all the credit for mentoring him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Holy sh!t someone in my cheap a$$ office just laid out a holiday spread in the kitchen be back after I stuff my face.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Could Vince Lombardi's re-animated corpse be the end game?

Posted by: Original_etrod | December 17, 2008 9:34 AM |


Here! Here!

Just think of the power he would have by default. No player could intimidate him.
Never a need to apologize to a player. Every suggestion coming from the owner would be met with that same serene death like gaze. Our team will then rise based on the model of rock like consistency that he exudes. Stability! Unflappability! Even if some players may whisper how cold he is in the locker room, yet their whispers fall on deaf ears. He will forever have both eyes unblinkingly locked on the future!

Posted by: driley | December 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Well, excuse me while I do the Electric Slide across the kitchen table.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:48 AM

LOL

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Nothing will ever change.

Not until Dan Snyder either dies (of old age or something else) or he sells the team.

So basically we have to wait a long long time....

Posted by: SmallPen15 | December 17, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse

I say that we go after both Suggs and Dansby, the both can rush the passer and play linebacker, then in the draft we draft a DT and OL

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

hahahahhahahhahahahhahaaaaaaaaa

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 10:53 AM

Yes, I know.

But, I learned living my High School/College years through the Turner era and Brief MArty stint I wanted some head coach to like us and stay, and not just keep rotating HCs. Those year the black hole years of the skins.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse

also pass on Peppers and Haynseworth

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse

But, I learned living my High School/College years through the Turner era and Brief MArty stint I wanted some head coach to like us and stay, and not just keep rotating HCs. Those year the black hole years of the skins.........

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:02 AM |

Actually I think Norv stayed about 5 years to long.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse

++++ Chris Samuels? I don't know how voters evaluate talent but to think he is one of the best tackles in the conference is pathetic.

Posted by: hender_22+++


Granted, once his leg went, Samuels was far from Pro Bowl. But PRE-INJURY, all he did was protect the QB on every play by himself, and open the majority of the holes for the (then) #1 runner in the NFL. Heyer, remember, can't run block. So Samuels, despite the defense knowing the run would be left, still dominated.

Sellers is deserving. He blows people up on run plays.

Cooley has 75 catches, despite being one of only two receivers the redskins have (one of one when Moss's Hammie is acting up) .Witten is number one, granted, but Cooley is deserving as backup.

Portis? I wouldn't vote for him.

Fletcher? Absolutely. Backup to Willis.

Yeah, it's a shame the D got hosed, but except for Fletcher, no individual stands out enough to get a Hawaiian visit.

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

"Masonman - This is the FIRST time EVER I saw a Redskins team already talking about the offseason like the season is already over, AND we still have a mathmatical chance of getting in the playoffs. Sure, every team ahead of us has to lose this week, but this is the NF of L, and I wouldn't call it far fetched.

This is on JZ because he said the season is over and though we have a chance, it's not worth fighting for.

JZ has given up on this team and it's possible alot of the team has check out already.

Now, that's sad.....

Posted by: DaReal4th "

Who has the scenario for this week that lists what must happen for the Skins to stay alive?

Posted by: Masonman | December 17, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I say that we go after both Suggs and Dansby, the both can rush the passer and play linebacker, then in the draft we draft a DT and OL

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

This I totally agree with.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Yesterday, I was in favor of going after Pepp, but after seeing that he's going to be 29, I might need to change my mind. Obviously 29 is not a death knell, however he is getting up their in age, again only 29, but I'd prefer that he was somewhat younger.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Skin Fans! Again, you guys always amaze me, I told you once before, six weeks ago, the skins are 9-7 team. Zorn is new and JC is practically new too. If you intend to change Zorn, then please let JC go; the owners decision to change coach like underwear is killing JC carrier. Give Zorn just one more year and get a quality wide receiver. Moss is too fragile, you need the likes of Chad Johnson; a game changer. Let go of Jason Taylor, Rocky McIntoch,Shawn Spring, Marcus Washingto,Justin Tryon, Ryan Plackemeier, Shaun Suisham, and James Trash.

Posted by: abxinc | December 17, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:02 AM |

Actually I think Norv stayed about 5 years to long.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:05 AM

I agree, but the moment and time Norv left was just plain wrong. It was a team of his mold by then. We should've kept him at that point.

My earlier statement was incomplete, but basically after living the bad years during the prime of my life and we finally got good, just for the new owner to tear it down was devastating IMHO......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse

abx,

What team do you like and if you say the Cowgirls, you got no room to talk about an owner firing coaches.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

This is on JZ because he said the season is over and though we have a chance, it's not worth fighting for.

JZ has given up on this team and it's possible alot of the team has check out already.

Now, that's sad.....

Posted by: DaReal4th "
----------

He actually said that? Hard to believe.

But if that's true, then he should go.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 17, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

flound, my company put on a Christmas lunch for headquarters last week, the next day 50-60 people were sick with food poisoning, so be careful what you wish for......and eat!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse

We need to find the next Haynesworth and draft him.......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 10:26 AM |

Don't know if this was ever submitted. We need to draft Terrance Cody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUE3Ys-qf6M&feature=related

Posted by: oldtimer4 | December 17, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

I say that we go after both Suggs and Dansby, the both can rush the passer and play linebacker, then in the draft we draft a DT and OL

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse

This I totally agree with.

Posted by: zjfr2 | December 17, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Yeah I like defenses like this....they're called the 3-4. Don't forget the nose tackle you are going to need, the extra MLB, two DE's (Taylor and Carter can't hold up in a 3-4 defense as ends.

Posted by: Gweez | December 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

flound, my company put on a Christmas lunch for headquarters last week, the next day 50-60 people were sick with food poisoning, so be careful what you wish for......and eat!

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:14 AM |

Thanks alot Greg, to late now I guess time will tell.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

++++Holmgren could make the executive decisions, set the tone for the franchise, help pick players and work with Zorn to implement game plans and scheme things up. If Zorn were to retain playcalling duties in a scenario such as this hypothetical one, then so be it. Holmgren is a taskmaster and a notorious meddler, but Zorn already knows this and can handle it. And this type of situation would also allow Zorn to focus more exclusively in practice on the QBs, and Campbell's development.+++-_JASNO


Anything to get Personnel duties away from Vinny is VERY Tempting.

But I don't think this would work:

1. Holgren is a WCO guy. WCO has never succeeded in the NFC East, and won't until Global warming has had another couple of decades to heat things up in December.

2. Zorn stays as play caller? Of all his skill sets, playcalling is Zorn's least effective. Granted, there's a chance reduction of other duties will allow him to improve there, but it could take years, or never happen.

3. Aside from the money, what makes you think Zorn would be happy with being demoted to a lesser gig. We all saw how well that worked with Portis. I don't care how much he's paid, being bumoped back to essentially the QB coach again, does not make Jim a happy boy.


Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

oldt, saw that video, my only concern is his weight ballooning out of control. 365 is a lot of weight, how tall is this cat?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

oldt, saw that video, my only concern is his weight ballooning out of control. 365 is a lot of weight, how tall is this cat?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:17 AM |

6'5"

Posted by: oldtimer4 | December 17, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Zorn's 7-7 on the year. Vinny went 1-9 on the draft, right? So if you're going to start firing or demoting based on performance, ol' bugeyes has to be first on the list. Right? Please? Hello? Anyone there?

Seriously, Vinny has to have pictures of Danny performing unnatural acts with a corpse. There's no other explanation for Vinny surviving 9 of Snyder's 10 years. Snyder can't think he's competent. So the only other answer is that Danny just loves bootlicking yes-men so much that he's willing to sacrifice the entire team to be surrounded by adoring morons.

And that's just too horrible to consider -- because it means this team can't improve. So I'm going with the whole "sex with a corpse" thing. Who's with me?

Posted by: diesel_skins_ | December 17, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Brown, 32, spent the past seven years with the Chicago Bears as assistant director of pro personnel.

He has not always been with Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 10:40 AM

I'm aware of that. But is Jerry Angelo that much better? I'm all for giving Morocco a shot, but I don't know if this owner is the one to try and give him a chance. That would require forward and insightful thought...something Snyder has lacked since owning this team.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

3. Aside from the money, what makes you think Zorn would be happy with being demoted to a lesser gig. We all saw how well that worked with Portis. I don't care how much he's paid, being bumoped back to essentially the QB coach again, does not make Jim a happy boy.

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 11:16 AM |


Cork,

I agree if he were to except being demoted, then in my opinion he would be a joke and no one would respect him.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Flound, tried to warn you....lol, it was high comedy the next day for those who didn't get sick.

"WCO has never succeeded in the NFC East"

That is, if you're not counting the 4 titles the Eagles won in a row, when they were running the WCO......

I can't get over that people think the WCO wont work in the NFC East, and then claim that its NEVER worked. Hello??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,

Watch some of the videos of his agility. Pretty amazing for a guy his size

Posted by: oldtimer4 | December 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

Granted, once his leg went, Samuels was far from Pro Bowl. But PRE-INJURY, all he did was protect the QB on every play by himself, and open the majority of the holes for the (then) #1 runner in the NFL. Heyer, remember, can't run block. So Samuels, despite the defense knowing the run would be left, still dominated

Samuels was getting beat plenty pre-injury as well, esp. in the 2nd half of the season. He's probably good for about 8 games a season for the rest of his career, but he's getting old and getting by alot on reputation from his earlier days.

In a sense, this exemplifies alot of the problems we have with the OL in general. This reverence for aging, slowing players because they were monsters back in the day.

Samuels is what he is: a Very Good Tackle for about a half of a season.

Posted by: VTDuffman | December 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

ALBERT HAYNESWORTH

Posted by: P00P | December 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Report abuse

So how would Zorn's current playbook be that much different from his mentor, Holmgren's? What if it is the players not executing plays? Will Holmgren get them to study harder, practice harder, play harder? Will Holmgren change the dynamic where Portis can run to Danny if he does not get the playing time he thinks he deserves?

Holmgren is burned out in a profession that literally eats up coaches. Let it go. He would need three times the pychic energy to deal with all the forces permeating this team. The change that is needed for this team is much larger it is a complete do-over of the owner/team relationship, a purging of the scouting and evaluation people, a complete reordering of draft day strategies, a better way of dealing with aged players and their humongous contracts. What "name" coach wants to step into this swamp without having the power that is needed to deal with all of these issues that have eluded other coaches? Zorn by himself never really had a chance, he was fated to be overwhelmed by all the forces that makes this team a chronically sick patient.

Posted by: driley | December 17, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Cork, watch the eagles game, and let me know how poorly the WCO does against the Redskins. And watch how many times they throw the ball to Jackson.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse

"But is Jerry Angelo that much better? "

Um yeah, I would. they have had a SB appearance on his watch right? The Bears have had a pretty good run with young talent. Would anyone argue that Lovie Smith wasn't a good HC choice? Vinny makes Jerry Angelo look GM of the decade. Also the ownership in Chicago is notoriously cheap so how much have Angelo's hands have been tied?

But I agree with you on the rest of your post about Snyder....

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

for the love of gawd can Beantown and Cork not run around the same horsetrack today?

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Since everyone is talking about blowing the team up; I'm assuming this will be on both sides of the ball right?

What are the thoughts of a 3-4 defense in D.C.?

Maybe its just me, but it just seems that these days good quality defensive linemen are harder to come by than good quality linebackers.

If dumping the entire defensive line is what it'll take to make the transition to the 3-4, I ask, where is the downside?

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Me and Cork actually agree on something....

Greg

Success = SB Championships. Not just 'making' it to the NFC Championship game 4 straight years only to make it to the SB once and have your QB hurl on the field in the 4th QTR.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

He actually said that? Hard to believe.

But if that's true, then he should go.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | December 17, 2008 11:14 AM

MR R, go listen to the JZ show with the sporteReporters. I was paraphrasing, but that is basically what he said. Honestly....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Is there a scenario where DC makes the playoffs if they go 9-7?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

cl, not trying to beat a dead horse, but gimme a break, so apparently what Philly did doesn't count or something.

4th, when was the Redskins last NFC East title?? When was the last NFC Championship?? I thought so, I'd take some of their 'lack of success' 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

1. Holgren is a WCO guy. WCO has never succeeded in the NFC East, and won't until Global warming has had another couple of decades to heat things up in December.

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 11:16 AM

Seriously, why do people keep saying that here? Am I the only one to see the Eagle DOMINATE this division the early part of the decade running the WCO? I'm pretty sure it's colder in Philly than it is in D.C. on average...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse

Wrote a response Pfunk, but it's been held. Just too long to repost right now...I'll get back to this.

Posted by: shaunsherman12 | December 17, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse

if we switch to a 3-4 you have to keep philip daniels because of his power, go after suggs and dansby, draft a big dt, and pick one up in FAgency, and then draft a DE and OL with rest of picks

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

brown, I don't get it either. Apparently if you saw what I saw, then it REALLY DID happen, and it wasn't just in my head....phew.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:40 AM | Report abuse

thats ok shaunsherman we understand you hate the fans. Obviously the fanbase is the #1 culprit in the skins 16 years of ineptitude....

is the WCO perfect for NFC East NO, do I like it, NO, is it doomed to "never work" of course not.

Posted by: chrislarry | December 17, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

My FA shopping list. I'll wouldn't mind get one from each catagory. I think the skins will need 4-6 FA this offseason to address the release of the vet players that have been mentioned.

RB
Maurice Morris
Darern Sproles (3rd spec/returner)
Derrick Ward

WR
Bobby Engram
Devery Henderson
Lance Moore
Roscoe Parrish (returner/slot)

OL
Jahri Evans
Robert Gallery (if he eligible)
Jordon Gross
Jon Sintchcomb

DL
Chris Canty
Tommie Harris
Albert Haynesworth

LB
Karlos Dansby
Leroy Hill
Terrel Suggs
Bart Scott

DB
Jabari Greer
Kherry Rhodes
Dunta Robinson


Posted by: TWISI | December 17, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

JLC is puffing the Hinckley

Posted by: Ilikecougars | December 17, 2008 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Hey JLA or Cindy or Jason or anyone else, Is there a scenario where DC makes the playoffs if they go 9-7?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:43 AM | Report abuse

Success = SB Championships. Not just 'making' it to the NFC Championship game 4 straight years only to make it to the SB once and have your QB hurl on the field in the 4th QTR.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:32 AM

While I agree that you shouldn't get complacent with making it to the NFC title game 4 years straight, I think it erroneous to say that isn't success.

I'll take four years of knowing that you were on the brink instead of four years wondering if the GM will be hired/fired, who will be the QB, or if the evaluators of talent will ever bring in the right guys through the draft or free agency - It means that the franchise MUST be doing SOMETHING right.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

If the Skins do grow up and hire a gm, it must be someone who knows the NFC East and rebuilds the team in a way the reacts to the division. But first:

Zorn must be the head coach only. Let Sherm calls play. Zorn needs to oversee the entire team so that needs can be properly articulated back to the gm.

The team needs to go with a three-headed running back approach. The Cowboys have Barber-Jones-Choice. The Giants have Jacobs-Ward-Bradshaw. The Eagles have all-world Westbrook-sometimes McNabb-Buckhalter. The Skins have Portis and Portis only. His recent attitude explains why neither Betts or Cartwright get carries has he wants to ball even when he's ineffective and doesn't practice. This has got to change. A mix of all Skins backs would make Portis healthy and effective at season's end.

Romeo Crennel will fired. He should be brought in to help Blatche run the Skins' defensive scheme. The Skins have the players in Taylor, Jackson, and Wilson to play more 3-4 and 4-3 varietions like the Pats do.


Holmgren should be avoided. Change should be embraced.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Is there a scenario where DC makes the playoffs if they go 9-7?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:34 AM |

Yes Dallas Tampa and Atlanta would have to lose there last two games and we would have to win both of ours.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Is there a scenario where DC makes the playoffs if they go 9-7?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:34 AM

Yes...if all the other wild card teams perish in a plane crash...

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 11:45 AM | Report abuse

The Eagles were beasting out in out division when the other 3 teams in the NFC east were mediocre at best, and the NFC in whole was lacking.

What have they done since TO left town?

Exsctly............

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Fire Vinny and get a list of players needed from the coaches and just use Mel Kiper's draft guide; the results would have to be better.

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

What about a 3-4 scheme on Defense

Sign Hanyesworth or draft Terrance Cody
Demetre Evans DE
Lorenzo Alexander DE (very athletic)
(Very strong interior line to free up Linebackers)
Chris Wilson OLB
Rocky MacIntosh (if Healthy) OLB
London Fletcher ILB
Sign Bart Scott ILB

Posted by: oldtimer4 | December 17, 2008 11:46 AM | Report abuse

If you go 3-4 you would have to bring in another D-cordinator to run it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Seriously, why do people keep saying that here? Am I the only one to see the Eagle DOMINATE this division the early part of the decade running the WCO? I'm pretty sure it's colder in Philly than it is in D.C. on average...

Posted by: brownwood26

While it's true the Eagles have had success with it, the system is an aerial attack based on timing and "perfection". It is much more difficult to accomplish in the elements.

And the Eagles were successful in a very weakened NFC East. Their talent level has not truly fluctuated over this decade, yet they have been much less successful the last few years with the emergence of the 3 other teams in the division.

Just my opinion, but while it's not that the west coast CAN'T succeed here, it does have the odds stacked against it. I'd definitely be a fan of a more hybrid, downfield passing system - similar to the one New England employs.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

4th, so success only counts when the other teams are up to par? I was unaware.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Red -

If the eagles were really good, they would have actually won a SB during their most opportun time, and they didn't. If I was a fan, I would be embarassed as much as I am with our very own team.

I would call them choke artist, not a sucessful team......

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Oldtimer4, the problem with changing to a 3-4 is that you'd have to gut the one side of the ball that isn't that bad. Rocky and Chris Wilson are both too small to play OLB in a 3-4 and London is probably too small to play MLB in that scheme. Plus, that whole scheme is ineffective if you don't have a huge DT in the mold of Casey Hampton. And we all know how good the Skins are at building the D-line. That's a no go in Washington...

Plus I hate playing with 3-4 teams on Madden. That and left handed QBs. So you know I benched Brunell every year when we had him.

Posted by: brownwood26 | December 17, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I would settle for a f-ing offense that could score 21 points a game, I don't care what you call it.

Call it the offense that scores 21 points a game.

Call it the DC 21 offense.

Who gives a sh!t what you call an offense that from reports I heard, a group of 5th graders could watch and come up with a plan to stop it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:53 AM | Report abuse

I hate free agents (LOL), you never know if they're a product of the system or can they have the same success any where they end up.

I look at that list, and take the RBs for example. I look at a guy like Ward, and while I'm impressed with his game, how do I, or you know that he isn't a benefactor of his o-line?

We all would love to be GM for a football team, but their job must be very, very difficult and just flat out sucks sometimes.

Posted by: RedDMV | December 17, 2008 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Beep Beep

Posted by: Flounder21 | December 17, 2008 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Is there a scenario where DC makes the playoffs if they go 9-7?

Posted by: Realness1 | December 17, 2008 11:34 AM |

Yes Dallas Tampa and Atlanta would have to lose there last two games and we would have to win both of ours.

Its impossible for the skins to take Dallas' spot Dallas has the tie breaker due to strenght of victory even if they tie, pray for atlanta. Can the skins grow a pair and beat the iggles this week!

Posted by: Dfan | December 17, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

do NOT get rid of the coaching staff. just hire ron wolf as gm. you wouldn't even need to pay the relocation bill!!!! btw, jasno and jla are tool bags...

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 17, 2008 11:58 AM | Report abuse

I don't think we should bring in Holmgren. His specialty is not personnel.

We need a real GM. Not a f'ing racquetball partner for Danny who has a knack for f'ing up every draft board he goes near.

If Danny had half a brain...he'd spend whatever it takes to get Pioli from NE.

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 17, 2008 11:59 AM | Report abuse

"Can the skins grow a pair and beat the iggles this week! Posted by: Dfan "

I would like to think this is possible however, this bunch seems unaware that there is no "I" in team. I expect BODY BAG II (this time at home) furthermore I also expect Philly to turn FEDEX into a Linc annex. Hope I am wrong...playing for pride but so far this season I have not seen any.

Posted by: Masonman | December 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse

Agree. Definitely see the potential for "Bodybag II"...

Posted by: anonymousinva | December 17, 2008 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey Jasno,

Given the average age, lack of talent and front office structure/personnel, does it really matter who coaches here?

Posted by: Redskinrex | December 17, 2008 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Genius idea, rather than bring Holmgren in at something he has been succesful with (coaching), let's instead have him run personnel which he was terrible at and was stripped of his duties.

Kinda like when all the fans wanted Greg Williams, a failed head coach to take over the team. Oh yeah Greg has already been fired from Jacksonville, we really missed out.

Posted by: chirsch | December 17, 2008 1:07 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE DO NOT BRING IN HOLMGREN. HE SUCKS!!! West Coast offense SUCKS

Posted by: hank7216 | December 17, 2008 1:14 PM | Report abuse

As long as Snyder holds the reins, and continues to act like a fan while doing so, and not like an owner who wants to build a winner (as if Snyder had a clue how to do so), I don't really care about whom he plucks to coach his team. When you can be mediocre on the field and still have the second most valuable franchise in the NFL, according to Forbes, who cares about winning, right????

So rather than hate the Player, I am just going to sit back and enjoy The Chase For The Next Head Coach Of Your Washington Redskins, AKA The 'Skins Coaching Carousel. That's why I love this post by JLC!!!! Retreads, Unknowns, Up-and-Comers (no, not that kind), bring 'em on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: rooster75 | December 17, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

The season that Schottenheimer coached, the first thing he did was fire Vinny. Yes, team started 0-5, but finished 8-8. And Marty was putting together a foundation. Ofcourse, next season, Spurrier is available and Danny Boy jumps .. which put the franchise back 3-4 years. But, Vinny not being around was the key.

Holmgren as GM makes sense. And he wants a legacy of building a team. He knows the coach, system and players it needs to be successful. And last I looked, the defense was not the problem.

All Vinny wants to do is save his job. He was worthless in SanFran, has done nothing here and really, drafting 1 offensive lineman in the biggest draft class we've had in years, knowing that every started is 30+, and we play NYG and Dallas twice a year is foolish. We really needed Fred Davis when Cooley is a Pro Bowler. Vinny is an awful GM, but great at keeping his JOB.

Posted by: ASinNY | December 17, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

You need to get out of the prediction business; you predicted about 10 different names (all wrong) last offseason when "your gut" told you they were going to get the job. You are a know-nothing who acts like a know-it-all.

Posted by: CPortisRun | December 17, 2008 8:18 PM | Report abuse

Are you guys at the Post smoking or drinking something? Why would Holmgren come to the Reskins? Let's remember one thing that everyone seems to forget. If Holmgren thought so much of Zorn as a head coach then why was he not even an afterthought in terms of replacing Holmgren next year. It was Holmgren who passed over Zorn because he thought he was not ready. So, why would he come to the Skins? Makes no sense. People read too much into that relationship.

Posted by: zman1 | December 17, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse

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