Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: RedskinsInsider and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  E-mail alerts: Redskins and Sports  |  RSS

Camp Storylines: No. 4 Receiver questions

With Redskins training camp opening Thursday afternoon, this week on Redskins Insider we'll count down the most pressing issues the team faces as players prepare to report.

Will Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly finally emerge as an impact No. 2 wide receiver this season?

Beginning their third seasons in the league, Thomas and Kelly could be at a career crossroads. The Redskins drafted them in the hope of filling their longtime need for productive big targets in the passing game, and they showed some flashes in 2009 after disappointing rookie seasons.

Kelly opened last season as the starter opposite top wideout Santana Moss, but was demoted in favor of Thomas because former head coach Jim Zorn was dissatisfied with his route running.

Coach Mike Shanahan apparently has doubts about the third-year players as well, prompting
the Redskins to bring in veterans Joey Galloway and Bobby Wade to compete with them.

Prediction:[Thomas is among the most well-conditioned wideouts in the league and has stretch-the-field speed. Kelly was miscast in Zorn's offense and missed most of his first season because of knee problems, so he has struggled to this point. Thomas seems to be in a better position to take a step forward in Shanahan's first season.

By Jason Reid  |  July 28, 2010; 6:00 AM ET
Categories:  wide receivers  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: McNabb is gonna train like it's 1999
Next: Camp Storylines: No. 3 Backfield logjam

Comments

FIRST to say Im tired of sports writers saying things like "Thomas is among the most well-conditioned wideouts in the league and has stretch-the-field speed." when the player has done NOTHING.

Posted by: SkinsSinceDayOne | July 28, 2010 7:05 AM | Report abuse

Now, now SSDO...he DID have that monster game against the Saints last year...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 7:09 AM | Report abuse

WTF...why not an option for "Draft Thomas, but not Davis and Kelly"? Cuz that would be my top option...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 7:12 AM | Report abuse

Can't fairly evaluate any WR until regular season under McNabb.

Posted by: SayWhat15 | July 28, 2010 7:20 AM | Report abuse


Now, now SSDO...he DID have that monster game against the Saints last year...

Posted by: brownwood26

You're just joking brown, right?

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 7:21 AM | Report abuse

SW15, whether McNabb is here or not, to me you can't evaluate any WR until they've had 3 years to evaluate. There's a segment here who want Vincent Jackson and then conveniently overlook the fact that Jackson wasn't a heckuva lot better his first 2 years than DT has been after his first two. There are differences in the two players, but it just highlights the fact that every WR isn't going to burst on the scene Year 1 like Randy Moss.

DT may or may not blow up in Year 3, but I expect him to at least be a solid contributor.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 7:27 AM | Report abuse

None of'em

Posted by: chrislarry | July 28, 2010 7:31 AM | Report abuse

Of course I'm kidding hess. I just don't get how pointing out that Thomas is well-conditioned and fast has anything to do with whether he's done anything yet. I mean, there's a lot of physically talented guys out there that don't make it in the league. I don't see how SSDO is letting himself get all worked up about it...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 7:32 AM | Report abuse

They will both be fine this year

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 7:36 AM | Report abuse

They will both be fine this year

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 7:36 AM


I hope by "both" you mean Thomas and Davis, because Kelly ain't makin' this team. Put me down for the "Kelly's gone after the first round of cuts" bet.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 7:41 AM | Report abuse

Will Devin Thomas or Malcolm Kelly finally emerge as an impact No. 2 wide receiver this season?

Thomas and Davis will emerge this season.

And because he's a proven player who can play offense, defense, and special teams, M Furrey should get M Kelly's spot.

And if Kelly doesn't become a great special teamer, he should be cut.

T Austin and B Banks are fighting for spots as well.

The receiver depth chart come Labor Day?:

S Moss

D Thomas

M Furrey

M Kelly

T Austin


practice squad

B Banks

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 7:42 AM | Report abuse

I was on record yesterday with a "book it" that Kelly wont be on opening day roster (IR counts as a correct book)....

Hey I hope I am wrong, truly.

Posted by: chrislarry | July 28, 2010 7:45 AM | Report abuse

"Kelly was miscast in Zorn's offense..."


This is for the guys who swear up and down that using Malcolm Kelly on go-routes was best for the offense.


Of course they'll fire back with something like "I'll take Zorn's judgement over Jason Reid's anyday". Even though it's crystal clear in your grill obvious that Malcolm Kelly is NOT suitable on go-routes.

Not Zorn, Samson151, sroberts, or an ArmchairGM is telling me other wise.


If you can't separate from corners, then how are you suited for go-routes. I think those who think Kelly can run these are mistaken them for fades, deep post, and other out patterns.

Kelly is best suited on curls, fades, and passes between the hash marks. Patterns where his size can make up for his lack of speed.

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 7:52 AM | Report abuse


Malcolm Kelly's career statistics after 2 yrs.

Receptions - 28
Receiving yards - 365
Receiving TDs - 0

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse

Hindsight 20/20 I would not have drafted any of the guys.

Davis looks like a keeper but is he going to be all that much better than Cooley? Cooley is also a fan favorite and there are probably more Cooley Jerseys sold than any other. Davis or Cooley will be gone after next year at the latest. Can't pay two guys as #1 TEs.

Two guys I would have definitely drafted over those guys would be DeSean Jackson and Ray Rice. Henne in the 2nd round would have been nice. I know they were still committed to Soup at the time. I am a little suspect of Henne's long term potential. In college the knock on him is that he is not the brightest guy.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 28, 2010 7:56 AM | Report abuse

redDmv

"Kelly is best suited on curls, fades, and passes between the hash marks. Patterns where his size can make up for his lack of speed."

Agreed.

And if he learns to play teams, he'll have a spot on the roster.

Unless some guy named Anthony Armstrong--who has impressed--out plays him.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 7:58 AM | Report abuse

Been saying for weeks I can't see Kelly making the team.... I hope Shanahan sees something that I don't and can get it out of Kelly during the season.

Of course in retrospect, if they were going to select two WRs regardless, it would've made sense to draft Thomas then draft Moss' replacement, or the guy who was going to push Randle El out of the starting role (DJax).


As much potential the guy has, I just can't see how the Fred Davis pick helps the team at the time. I mean damn, if they wanted to stock up on pass catchers why not go for the trinity and draft THREE wide receivers back-to-back-to-back?

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:01 AM | Report abuse

If you can't separate from corners, then how are you suited for go-routes. I think those who think Kelly can run these are mistaken them for fades, deep post, and other out patterns.

Kelly is best suited on curls, fades, and passes between the hash marks. Patterns where his size can make up for his lack of speed.

Posted by: RedDMV

If you can't separate from corners you should not be an NFL wr. Period. Which is why Kelly will more than likely find himself on the street.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 28, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse


Malcolm Kelly's career statistics after 2 yrs.

Receptions - 28
Receiving yards - 365
Receiving TDs - 0
Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 7:53 AM | Report abuse
----------
In fairness, he didn't play his first year. He'll be better this year. It's funny how one speculation fromo'halloran he'll get cut and everybodys on that bandwagon. We'll know before long.

Posted by: AdamCr | July 28, 2010 8:06 AM | Report abuse

This is for the guys who swear up and down that using Malcolm Kelly on go-routes was best for the offense.


Of course they'll fire back with something like "I'll take Zorn's judgement over Jason Reid's anyday". Even though it's crystal clear in your grill obvious that Malcolm Kelly is NOT suitable on go-routes.

Not Zorn, Samson151, sroberts, or an ArmchairGM is telling me other wise.


If you can't separate from corners, then how are you suited for go-routes. I think those who think Kelly can run these are mistaken them for fades, deep post, and other out patterns.

Kelly is best suited on curls, fades, and passes between the hash marks. Patterns where his size can make up for his lack of speed.

Posted by: RedDMV

I have always said that Thomas was not miscast. People said that he should have been a possession receiver running 7 and 10 yard routes which I disagreed with. I have never thought much of Kelly and had written him off long ago.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 28, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Pretty good depth chart Moe, but respectfully disagree with Shanahan keeping Kelly over Bobby Wade. Seems to me special teams value alone would keep Wade ahead of Kelly. Plus he'd make a better slot option than Furrey would, IMO.

I'm sorta interested in seeing the battle between Austin and Banks...seems to me they're similar enough players that there's no sense in keeping both of them. I'd think that the winner gets that 5th WR spot and the loser gets a turn on the practice squad.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

Moe, can you see Kelly on special teams?

I can't.


That potential WR depth chart you posted scares me.

Like I just went bankrupt I'ma throw myself of the terrace scared.

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:07 AM | Report abuse

My bad, rob. It must've been Samson then.

Now that I think of it, it was. My b.

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Up until a few days ago, I would have said that Cerrato's best move would have been to draft DE Philip Merling with his first round pick rather than trade down for a choice that wound up being one of those 2 beknighted wide receivers. As thing worked out, Merling would have been a nice fit at DE in Haslett's 3-4.

Then Miami's Merling went down for the season with an injury.

You can just never tell with football. Or any other big-time sport, apparently.

RedDmv weighs in with: "If you can't separate from corners, then how are you suited for go-routes. I think those who think Kelly can run these are mistaken them for fades, deep post, and other out patterns."

Um, I don't think anybody is mistaking the 'go', or 'fly', or 'streak' route, for anything else. It's the simplest of all patterns.

If you recall (which it seems you don't), the discussion wasn't about a single route. It was about whether Kelly had the makings of a good downfield receiver.

The answer to that is: if he's healthy, he does.

Fact is, it's difficult to complete a simple, straight-up-the-field deep pass based on your receiver being a lot faster than the DB. Works best if you've got a Randy Moss, Bob Hayes, or (if he could catch) a Darius Heyward-Bey. Most of the time, the 'go' route is productive only when the defense makes a mistake in coverage.

Most downfield completions involve other patterns.

A receiver like Kelly, on the other hand, is terribly effective on shorter patterns. He is a long strider who takes a while to get up to full speed. You wouldn't have success with him on a slant route, for instance, the way you could with Devin Thomas.

Some receivers are better at adjusting to the ball without breaking stride. That's Kelly. That's another trait of a good downfield receiver.

A tall, long-striding WR who adjusts to the ball in flight without necessarily breaking stride (and who's big and strong enough to keep from getting knocked off-stride by the DB) is a pretty good downfield threat.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

sroberts

"Hindsight 20/20 I would not have drafted any of the guys."


Go take a look at the 2008 NFL draft, rounds 2-4.

It's not pretty.

There are a lot of WR names there that have become players (J Finley, D Jackson, C Henne, Q Groves) mixed in with of wr dudes who just haven't panned out.

I mean: Limas Sweed, Early Ducet, Dexter Jackson, Jerome Simpson, Earl Bennett, etc.

I bet our complaints about D Thomas/M Kelly are echoed around the league.


Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 8:10 AM | Report abuse

We already have a great #2 WR - Santana Moss.

Posted by: Section104 | July 28, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

I think the real barrier for both Thomas and Kelly is they're not real good WRs at this point. That's what shows up on the tape. Their concentration isn't that good -- inopportune drops is a consequence -- and they don't always run to the correct spot, or execute a convincing fake (the key to success on many deep routes). And neither has distinguished himself as a blocker.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

It's funny how one speculation fromo'halloran he'll get cut and everybodys on that bandwagon. We'll know before long.

Posted by: AdamCr

I've never been one lap up with these journalist or so called experts pimp to the masses.


Like I said, I've been think this for weeks if not for a few months now.


Not trying to be an ass, but what is your optimism over Kelly based on? What has he done to show you that he can be more than what he is?

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

It's funny how one speculation fromo'halloran he'll get cut and everybodys on that bandwagon. We'll know before long.

Posted by: AdamCr | July 28, 2010 8:06 AM


F O'Halloran...I (and probably a host of others up here) thought that long before he said it. I mean, think about it: new regime, two veteran FAs brought in...he's not exactly going out on a limb here.

And just so you know...any way you slice it, 28 career catches sucks.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 8:15 AM | Report abuse

sroberts, agreed buddy, I was SCREAMING for the Redskins to draft Brady in the 5th back in 2000, and look what happened....

were you serious with that crap...way to MMBQ / cherry pick the 2008 draft 2 years after the fact.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

samsom151

"A tall, long-striding WR who adjusts to the ball in flight without necessarily breaking stride... is a pretty good downfield threat."

Well, we could offer AJ Smith a second rounder plus C Rogers and possibly have VJAX.

I mean, if you're committed to the notion that you need this kind of player and hope to draft one, why not make the move to get him now?

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 8:16 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis, on the other hand, is actually the best receiver of the three, even at TE. And he still has some of the same problems they do in terms of getting to the correct spot, bringing the ball in before turning upfield, ball security, etc.

Cooley is a very good receiver, very reliable and consistent at catching the ball, very good about being where he's supposed to be when the ball arrives. But athletically, he's not going to outrun or outjump most defenders. That's something Davis brings to the table.

But you can see why they're talking about having both TEs on the field at the same time: those two guys are probably the best option for a first down, or a score in the red zone.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 8:19 AM | Report abuse

Hmmm. thought this camp storyline would make it higher on this list. Of course anything Haynesworth has to be the no. 1.
So that means that no.3 has to be something about McD5 and no.2 is Shan-allen-han related.

Posted by: Predator48 | July 28, 2010 8:20 AM | Report abuse

"A receiver like Kelly, on the other hand, is terribly effective on shorter patterns. He is a long strider who takes a while to get up to full speed. You wouldn't have success with him on a slant route, for instance, the way you could with Devin Thomas."


Totally disagree with this. So when guys like T.O. or Keyshawn Johnson used to catch those three yard slants and take them 80 yards, you're telling me they were the fastest on the team.

I thinks not.

Slant routes are better suited for guys with height and size who can use their body as a shield between the ball and the defender. Whats the point in being fast in shorter routes when the defender can get between the receiver and the ball?

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:21 AM | Report abuse

"A receiver like Kelly, on the other hand, is terribly effective on shorter patterns. "

Sorry, I meant to say, Kelly ISN't terribly effective on shorter patterns.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 8:22 AM | Report abuse


And if he learns to play teams, he'll have a spot on the roster.

And this is the only way Kelly sticks with the Redskins.

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 8:23 AM | Report abuse

beantowngreg

"...were you serious with that crap...way to MMBQ / cherry pick the 2008 draft 2 years after the fact..."

Why not?

I'd love to pitch the idea of an NFL show that reviews the outcomes of the players we sweat over on draft day.

If we came sit through two late April days of Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper yappin' about what might happen with a guy, I'd like a show where I can see how all the picks have panned out.

I'd call it "The Path After the Draft."

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

*slant routes and most shorter patterns

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I like kellys hands, he catches anything close. Kyle shanahan has said some positive things about him. I also think he cares and will work hard to improve himself. We all know about his rookie season, and for whatever reason zorn benched him last year. Maybe he deserved it but many thought the same about Davis before he got a shot. I agree Malcolm hasn't proven anything yet but I look at him as basically a 2nd yr wr with ability so I think speculation about cutting him is way premature.

Posted by: AdamCr | July 28, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I think MK makes the team, and has a good year. He's not a MS/BA guy, they have no dog in that fight, if they didn't think he could play, he'd have been gone by now. MS will find a way to use a 6'4 receiver.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

We already have a great #2 WR - Santana Moss.

Posted by: Section104 | July 28, 2010 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Well done. I think all Mr. Mayor's "Storylines" are to help out those new to the boards. "If you've been asleep, here's what people, especially me, have been whining about the last 12 months."

And you're caught up.

Posted by: WorstSeat | July 28, 2010 8:26 AM | Report abuse

First two year:

Vincent Jackson: 24/30/512/6
DT: 30/40/445/3
MK 21/28/365/0
games/rec/yds/tds

Anyone that is saying that VJ had just as slow a progression as our two prodigies should actually look at the numbers. VJ has two time the TDs in less then half the games as compared to our guys. Sign VJ we obv cant draft receivers.

Oh and im very glad TOP signed with the Bengals no people can stop with that nonsense.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

Well, we could offer AJ Smith a second rounder plus C Rogers and possibly have VJAX.

I mean, if you're committed to the notion that you need this kind of player and hope to draft one, why not make the move to get him now?

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 8:16 AM


First of all, I'm not sure anyone would be interested adding Carlos Rogers...unless, of course, Auburn joins the AFC West and wants him back.

Second, drafting your own stud WR means getting him for a fraction of the cost of VJ. I know it's easier said than done, but if the Skins wanted to open up the coffers for VJ, they probably would have done so by now.

The only way I want VJ here is if it's a vehicle to get AH outta town (like the 3-team deal with Seattle that gets kicked around here a lot). Otherwise, I think we can get along without him.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 8:30 AM | Report abuse

"So when guys like T.O. or Keyshawn Johnson used to catch those three yard slants and take them 80 yards, you're telling me they were the fastest on the team.I thinks not. Slant routes are better suited for guys with height and size who can use their body as a shield between the ball and the defender. Whats the point in being fast in shorter routes when the defender can get between the receiver and the ball? Posted by: RedDMV"

Both TO and Keyshawn were known for getting up to speed quickly and for turning upfield quickly. Opposite of Kelly, in other words. The other WR who made much of the slant pass was Jerry Rice.

The key to a successful slant is the receiver getting the ball almost immediately. Because there are often defenders in the area, the pass has to be thrown with the front foot directed four to six yards in front of the receiver. The ball has to come in quick and ideally just above the waist. That's hard for most QBs to do, and the receiver has to have excellent hands to pluck the ball out of the air when it's off-target.

As soon as he catches the ball, he becomes a RB. That's the real key to the slant -- what the receiver can do once he has the ball in his hands. Kelly's not that type of receiver, unfortunately. Thomas might be.

Posted by: Samson151 | July 28, 2010 8:33 AM | Report abuse

sroberts, agreed buddy, I was SCREAMING for the Redskins to draft Brady in the 5th back in 2000, and look what happened....

were you serious with that crap...way to MMBQ / cherry pick the 2008 draft 2 years after the fact.......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

Did you miss the part of my post where I said hindsight 20/20? I did that so that anyone with at least an 8th grade reading level would comprehend that I was basing my comments off of what I know now.

That being said it was completely asinine to draft two wrs and a TE with your top 3 picks. I was laughing my a$$ off when Cerrato did that.

A team that pi$$ed away draft picks for years and went after high priced free agents on a whim decides it is going to take the top 3 guys on their board regardless of position.

Posted by: srobert1117 | July 28, 2010 8:34 AM | Report abuse

Greg, the only way I see Kelly making the team is if he balls out to the point that he starts opposite DT. And I can't see that happening. I also can't see Kelly playing special teams or playing out of the slot better than Bobby Wade. Seems to me that Shanahan likes versatility and by all appearances, MK has none.

He's big and he can catch. That's not enough to make an NFL roster, even here...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Speakin' of wide receivers:

Ochocinco and T.O. now both share the same area code.

ESPN is moving its headquarters from Bristol to the Buckeye State while keeping its lips pressed to the butt of the Dallas Cowboys.

Other media groupies have left fawning over LeBron/Bosh/Wade for a moment to cover the other meshing of ego and bigheadedness.

The governor of Ohio has ordered more air so the rest of the population can have some to breathe as the yappin' Owens and Chad Johnson promise to hog as much of it as humanly possible.

Carson Palmer will now be forced to throw two balls into the air on passing plays to make sure each used to be solid receiver has a chance to be satisfied.

Star running back Cedric Benson looks at Owens joining the Bengals and thinks, "Whadda 'bout me?"

And as for Marvin Lewis?: well, with two clowns in camp, you know he shouldn't expect nothin' but a circus of ego....

....and fear of unemployment.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 8:42 AM | Report abuse

He's big and he can catch

brown, I think thats exactly what gets him on the team, with SMoss being shorter, they need a bigger guy, MS/KS/DMcnabb will utilize his height, and his reach...DM will learn to throw passes where only MK can reach them...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Kelly needs to be no worse than the third best WR on the team because of his limitations on special teams. If he can't outperform Galloway and/or Wade, Kelly might find himself playing in Buffalo or Seattle.

Posted by: TWISI | July 28, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Greg, though not as big as MK, DT is a big target as well. So no need to force the issue with Kelly if he's not getting it done. Being big is nice, but if you can't run a route, get open, or actually stay health enough to even BE on the field, there's no point in wasting a roster spot on the guy. He could prove otherwise (which I'm sure we're all rooting for here), but I just doubt he beats out more proven players at that position...especially if he's any lower than 3rd on the depth chart.

Moe, don't worry about Marvin Lewis...it's generally recognized that he's a great coach working for a crap organization. If he's smart, he'll get outta Cincy the minute the 2010 season is over (his contract is up). With Lewis and John Fox possibly available, it could be a good year for "coaching free agents".

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 8:56 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't read too much into the vets acquisition at the WR spot.

The incoming HC has to do that to get snap players he didn't pick into line.

I'm not going to base any predictions on that move. Let's see what they do in camp.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 28, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

FIRST to say Im tired of sports writers saying things like "Thomas is among the most well-conditioned wideouts in the league and has stretch-the-field speed." when the player has done NOTHING.

Posted by: SkinsSinceDayOne | July 28, 2010 7:05 AM | Report abuse
______________

I generally agree with what you're saying, but I'd only say that there's a difference between having "stretch-the-field speed" and being a good, productive receiver. There are plenty of fast guys who never made it as receivers, and in this instance, I think Reid is basically saying that he has potential, and he certainly does have that. Whether he'll ever put it all together is another story.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | July 28, 2010 9:00 AM | Report abuse

"but if you can't run a route, get open"

Keeping in mind that it was Jim Zorn that said he couldn't run good routes. Zorn, who wanted them to run 'perfect' routes....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse


The only way I want VJ here is if it's a vehicle to get AH outta town (like the 3-team deal with Seattle that gets kicked around here a lot). Otherwise, I think we can get along without him.

Posted by: brownwood26

Agree, and let's keep our draft picks at all cost. Send people packing for other players or draft picks.

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Last post RE: Kelly

"...if they didn't think he could play, he'd have been gone by now."


Due to the shortage of youth and talent at the position, they're in no hurry to cut Kelly. I never thought that Kelly isn't talented. My thought is that his limitations will keep him off the team.

Even though they didn't draft him, you still don't just cut 2nd rounders before training camp starts.


As I said before, I hope I'm wrong about Malcolm Kelly. I hope that Shanahan and them see something I and others don't.

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 9:05 AM | Report abuse

"First two year:

Vincent Jackson: 24/30/512/6
DT: 30/40/445/3
MK 21/28/365/0
games/rec/yds/tds

Anyone that is saying that VJ had just as slow a progression as our two prodigies should actually look at the numbers. VJ has two time the TDs in less then half the games as compared to our guys. Sign VJ we obv cant draft receivers. Oh and im very glad TOP signed with the Bengals no people can stop with that nonsense."

Two things about VJax: (1) He had Phillip Rivers throwinging to him in Norv Turner's offense. Our guys had . . . well, you know. (2) There's this little problem about the Chargers not wanting to trade him (at least not yet). Oh, and cosign @ T.O.

Posted by: rufus_t_firefly | July 28, 2010 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Greg, the only person who holds Jim Zorn in lower regard than you is me, so you don't have to tell me that playing for Zorn warrants giving a guy a mulligan. Hell, it's the main reason I have any hope for Devin Thomas. It's just that with Kelly, at a minimum you have a guy who struggles to stay healthy and ranks no higher than 3rd on the depth chart. So that's why I'm saying...if he has a great camp/preseason and vaults into the top 3 WRs, then he's here. If not, he has no value on special teams. I just don't think he's better than Moss or Thomas, and maybe not Bobby Wade.

Trust me...I hope I'm wrong.

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 9:12 AM | Report abuse

All im saying is why even attempt to act like we try to keep our draft picks. We dont we trade them for old vets. When we have a draft pick it needs to be in the top 20 overall to actually have an impact on our team. Our scouting is a poor as anyones in the league. We cant draft receivers so why try, bite the bullet and pull out the check book. Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:15 AM


Devin Thomas. Book it!!!

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 9:19 AM | Report abuse


Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?

Art Monk ?

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

"I think MK makes the team, and has a good year. He's not a MS/BA guy, they have no dog in that fight, if they didn't think he could play, he'd have been gone by now. MS will find a way to use a 6'4 receiver.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

Well now MK12 is def doomed after this post, might as well cut him now. Beanie your original pre-draft take on MK was the correct one where you screamed like a cat in heat that the Skins should NOT draft Kelly.

Cosign RedDMV, would love to be wrong, but have a pretty good sense that I/we are right about MK12....

Posted by: chrislarry | July 28, 2010 9:28 AM | Report abuse

stu27

"Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?"

I'd say we've been snake-bit at the position since the days of Albert Connell and Mike Westbrook.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 9:29 AM | Report abuse

A pretty good article from Reid on the AH/Haslett dynamic...maybe he should get off the blogging and stick to writing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/27/AR2010072705748.html?sub=AR

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 9:30 AM | Report abuse

Did we draft Ricky Sanders? If so, him.

Posted by: chrislarry | July 28, 2010 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?

Art Monk ?

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Taylor Jacobs! Duh.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse | July 28, 2010 9:34 AM | Report abuse

stu, receiver is a tough spot to draft, who was the last receiver that the Pats drafted....Moss and Welker weren't their draft picks...its not as easy as it sounds...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 9:35 AM | Report abuse

Brownie, that's all he's wanted to do. Maese is meh... There's one guy I thought would be good at it, but I'd have to go look him up again (more meh...)

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 28, 2010 9:36 AM | Report abuse

Well thats my point we flat out cant draft that position. So go out and sign a number one receiver to complement Moss as the #2 and DT as the potential #3.

Rarely do guys like VJ and B Marshall come available going into the prime of their careers. We should do everything in our power to pick up VJ or someone similar for the long term success of this team. Drafting WRs in April is just not something this team can do.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Our old friend JLC is predicting that Brian Westbrook will be a Redskin by the 2nd preseason game. Hope he's right...

And good point on drafting WRs Greg...some make it sound easy but you could count on one hand how many teams in the NFL have actually done it in the last 5 years. It's probably the hardest position to draft outside of QB...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

HAHA yeah so the Pats went out and signed good WRs. Something that the skins need to do...

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"...receiver is a tough spot to draft, who was the last receiver that the Pats drafted..."


The colts, saints, chargers, 'boys, and vikings all seem to be good at it.

Or is it that they get a guy who can throw first?

Perhaps that's been our biggest issue: we haven't had good receivers as our quarterbacking has been just as lame.

D Mac will make some of the receivers we got look prety good.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?"

Did some research and besides Art Monk, the only good receiver would be Charlie Brown, 8th round in 1981. Keenan McCardell was selected in the 12th round of the 1991 draft, but SD developed him. Here's the rest:

Curtland Thomas and Eric Yarber round out the 80's. The 90's included high-profile picks Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook. In recent years, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Marko Mitchell, Taylor Jacobs, Rod Gardner and Darnerien McCants were among selections at wide receiver.

OUCH!!!

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

The three other teams in our division have done just fine drafting their receivers lately.

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for the look-up hessone. So we should probably just keep grinding that axe one of these decades we will draft a keeper...

Posted by: Stu27 | July 28, 2010 9:45 AM | Report abuse

The thing Mayor never seemed to get is that running a blog is essentially an interactive medium. You don't have to directly interact, per-se. But there has to be an acknowledgement of the audience beyond the quotes of "what some here think", yadda.

Posted by: DikShuttle | July 28, 2010 9:46 AM | Report abuse

D Mac will make some of the receivers we got look prety good.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Very true.

I don't think it's dumb luck that the Colts can plug in some 6th or 7th round nobody, and EUREKA- the guy is making plays.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly, had the same number of reeptions as Devin Thomas,last year, and more yards,plus he has the best hand on the team. He's 6'4 and Zorn threw one fade route for him. Dont believe everything you hear from a journalist trying to make a prediction, he knows less than most of you.
Shanny, knows how to use big recievers. the 1st thing Shany did when he arrived was to tell Malcolm to get ready for a big year. I'll take his word for it.

Posted by: tonytnt40 | July 28, 2010 9:47 AM | Report abuse


Besides Orakpo, who did Cerrato draft that's worthy of being in the NFL ?

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

I think its a combination of 2 things, the first being a competent quarterback, and the second being a competent coach/offensive system, neither of which we've had for quite some time....I think we'll now TRULY see what we have at WR, with the first 2 pieces in place.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 9:48 AM | Report abuse

D Mac will make some of the receivers we got look prety good.

Posted by: MistaMoe | July 28, 2010 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Very true.

I don't think it's dumb luck that the Colts can plug in some 6th or 7th round nobody, and EUREKA- the guy is making plays.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 9:51 AM | Report abuse

hess, STaylor, Lavar, Chris Samuels, heard of these guys?

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | July 28, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Taylor Jacobs! Duh.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse

According to teammates at the time, Taylor Jacobs' practices were the stuff of legend.

Posted by: Predator48 | July 28, 2010 9:53 AM | Report abuse

People were saying Sydney Rice was a bum. Then Brett Favre gets there, and suddenly he's in the ProBowl.

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse


@BeantownGreg1

Gotcha!!!

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

The thing Mayor never seemed to get is that running a blog is essentially an interactive medium. You don't have to directly interact, per-se. But there has to be an acknowledgement of the audience beyond the quotes of "what some here think", yadda.

Posted by: DikShuttle

Excellent point Dik, cosign

Posted by: chrislarry | July 28, 2010 9:56 AM | Report abuse

"stu, receiver is a tough spot to draft, who was the last receiver that the Pats drafted....Moss and Welker weren't their draft picks...its not as easy as it sounds...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1"

Ah yes, I think I remember this exact argument coming from me to you before the 2008 draft ever commenced.

While everyone was hell-bent on drafting a "big WR," I pointed out the fact that drafting a WR is a complete crapshoot and the biggest need for that team was not at WR, but at the offensive and defensive lines.

Alas, Cerrato sided with the bulk of fans and ended up drafting 3 of them in the first 2 rounds.

Now it looks like there's a very real chance that draft turns out to be a bust. And if it does become that, then I'm betting the fanbase sits back again and clamors for the next big WR to enter the draft in 2011.

Just like we did with Michael Westbrook, then with Rod Gardner, then with Taylor Jacobs, then with Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

Posted by: psps23 | July 28, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse

I don't see how we can accurately evaluate any of the Skins WRs after the last two years...

None of them did that well statistically; given an OL that couldn't pass block and a QB that couldn't throw down field.

Posted by: siris | July 28, 2010 9:59 AM | Report abuse


Taylor Jacobs! Duh.

Posted by: Bigfoot_has_a_posse

The only thing Jacobs was good at was being released by the teams he played for.

Posted by: hessone | July 28, 2010 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly, had the same number of reeptions as Devin Thomas,last year, and more yards,plus he has the best hand on the team. He's 6'4 and Zorn threw one fade route for him. Dont believe everything you hear from a journalist trying to make a prediction, he knows less than most of you.
Shanny, knows how to use big recievers. the 1st thing Shany did when he arrived was to tell Malcolm to get ready for a big year. I'll take his word for it.

Posted by: tonytnt40 | July 28, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly, had the same number of reeptions as Devin Thomas,last year, and more yards,plus he has the best hand on the team. He's 6'4 and Zorn threw one fade route for him. Dont believe everything you hear from a journalist trying to make a prediction, he knows less than most of you.
Shanny, knows how to use big recievers. the 1st thing Shany did when he arrived was to tell Malcolm to get ready for a big year. I'll take his word for it.

Posted by: tonytnt40 | July 28, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Malcolm Kelly, had the same number of reeptions as Devin Thomas,last year, and more yards,plus he has the best hand on the team. He's 6'4 and Zorn threw one fade route for him. Dont believe everything you hear from a journalist trying to make a prediction, he knows less than most of you.
Shanny, knows how to use big recievers. the 1st thing Shany did when he arrived was to tell Malcolm to get ready for a big year. I'll take his word for it.

Posted by: tonytnt40 | July 28, 2010 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Stu, can we stop putting VJ in Brandon Marshall's category? I mean, really...compare their numbers and get back to me with what exactly makes you think VJ is even in Marshall's league...

Posted by: brownwood26 | July 28, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Triple posting Tony

Posted by: iH8dallas | July 28, 2010 10:03 AM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: Original_etrod | July 28, 2010 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"Malcolm Kelly, had the same number of reeptions as Devin Thomas,last year, and more yards,plus he has the best hand on the team."

And 86 of his jaw-dropping 325 receiving yards came on one play -- which he didn't score on -- when he clearly should have.

"the 1st thing Shany did when he arrived was to tell Malcolm to get ready for a big year."


I guess Shanahan telling Kelly that for motivational purposes is outside the realm of possibility.

Before every game in HS my basketball coach would tell me to 'get ready, be ready'. At first I used it as motivation and got all hyped, but after awhile seeing how I sucked, him telling me that before every game started to lose it's luster. Now I look back and think: F him for not playing me, and he only told me that to keep me focused. I think Shanahan is using the same tactic when telling Kelly to "get ready for a big year".

I can't wait until they really get into camp. I'm dying to see if Kelly is as good as some think he would be.

Posted by: RedDMV | July 28, 2010 10:12 AM | Report abuse

He hasn't done anything, but if you go to the games in person, you can absolutely see DT's speed.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | July 28, 2010 10:14 AM | Report abuse

Who exactly was the last impact receiver we drafted and developed?

Art Monk ?

Posted by: hessone

Marko Mitchell.......if preseason counts!

Posted by: Predator48 | July 28, 2010 10:24 AM | Report abuse

I hope they prove the doubters wrong....

Posted by: 4thFloor | July 28, 2010 10:34 AM | Report abuse

Thomas will be the starting No. 2 receiver with Kelly coming off the bench as either the No. 3 or No. 4 receiver barring a suspension to Moss or a trade for a top receiver. Bobby Wade is likely to be on the roster and will get some PT on 3rd downs as a possession receiver. Also, we can't discount the Redskins splitting out Davis or Cooley in two-tight end sets which might limit the use of a No. 3 receiver if none emerges durin camp. Davis has shown that he can be a starter in the NFL, not so with Thomas or Kelly.

Posted by: wizfan89 | July 28, 2010 12:23 PM | Report abuse

only the Redskins had Kelly and Thomas so high on their boards. Davis can play, but why draft him when you have a pro-bowl tight end already? Thomas was a one year wonder at Mich State, which has little to no NFL track record in my book. Kelly's knee was a known issue and the Skins and Cerrato still took him in the 2nd round.

So i would not draft any of them. Every need the team has to this day existed then. we needed O and D-line talent, we needed linebackers, running backs and safety's.

Again, my hope of the Shanahan era is it shows how poorly coached and how untalented the team has been over the past 10-years.

Posted by: oknow1 | July 28, 2010 12:34 PM | Report abuse

FIRST to say Im tired of sports writers saying things like "Thomas is among the most well-conditioned wideouts in the league and has stretch-the-field speed." when the player has done NOTHING.

Posted by: SkinsSinceDayOne |

Why? That's actually news. His rookie year he was one of the worst-conditioned wideouts in the league and had a stretch-the-med-facilities series of legs pulls and rips because of it.

He did a LITTLE last year, not nothing, but if you mean he's been a rip-roaring disappointment, you'll get no argument from me.

Posted by: TheCork | July 28, 2010 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Vinny took Devin Thomas off the board before Desean Jackson because of Thomas's size - at the time we had only small receivers.

Thomas will put up Maclin-like numbers this season, 700 - 800 yds, so will Moss.

Rounding that out will be Cooley, Davis, Kelley (he makes the team, Kyle wants to use him like Andre Johnson and he has good hands). Galloway probably makes the team as Shanahan want's a known quantity in his toolset.

Kelley is the odd man out in the survey question because that pick was extravagantly used on a wide out when offensive line was the pressing need - though who wasn't psyched when Kelley took off down the field in San Diego (albeit the safety should have made that play)?

Kelley should be playing in the air, positionally, on the sidelines, over the middle and in the end zone. He hasn't been used like this and he'll get one shot.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | July 28, 2010 1:18 PM | Report abuse

Thomas and Kelly have done nothing to prove that they belong in the NFL. Their problems with route running and the mental side of the game is a disgrace for players who have played the game at the levels that Thomas and Kelly have. They both have exhibited no regard for the physical and mental study that the NFL demands. If they don't burn up the preseason field with their performances, they don't belong on this team.

Posted by: JAMNEW | July 28, 2010 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, Jerry Smith, Roy Jefferson, Art Monk, Ricky Sanders, Gary Clark, do any of the Redskin's receivers come anywhere near the play of these guys? It's a shame, a team once known for it's great wideouts can only field one receiver who is even a decent player.

Posted by: JAMNEW | July 28, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't have drafted any of them. I would have taken 2 offensive linemen and traded our top pick that year for Anquan Boldin.

Posted by: drischord | July 28, 2010 4:34 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company