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What Moves Will Offseason Bring?

One of the big questions around Redskins Park - especially after the recent layoffs - is how much will owner Daniel Snyder spend on free agents? Will the budget be tight, as it was last year?

Many people seem to think so. Other NFL people, who've run into Vinny Cerrato at meetings and events over the past few months, have said that fiscal responsibility and cost cutting have been his marching orders. And Cerrato always wants to talk about the draft these days and emphasize that, even with just four picks.

I have chatted with a few people close to the situation who said they would be very surprised if the Skins set the market again on big free agents. They have been burned in the past and, in this ecomomic climate especially, these people say they would be surprised if Snyder were to go out and make a huge splash.

While these guys expect four or five free-agent signings, they think the signings are likely to be "value" guys who have some starting experience - and some warts, too. A stopgap guard and tackle, a veteran defensive tackle are possibilities, but overall holes must be filled through the draft (where, if you swing and miss, the cost isn't nearly as steep) as part of a youth movement. After all, that's how most succesful teams operate.

The coaches will be getting a handle on what's in store. The Skins' personnel meetings are beginning this week and by early next month the plan will start to become clear. I tend to think they sign one pricey free agent (though not a Gross or Haynesworth - not that massive) and a few value guys (LB, DT, G), then try to draft a starting tackle and trade Carlos Rogers for a second-round pick to use on a defensive tackle or defensive end.

I don't think they will be setting spending records and I would think the Jason Taylor experience would have taught them not to deal multiple picks for older, marginal players.

By Jason La Canfora  |  January 16, 2009; 7:14 AM ET
 
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Comments

I'm coming around on trading Carlos Rogers. I like him and would hate to see him go but if the team can get value for him I'd be OK with it. I'd like to see them swap 1sts and pick up a 2nd rounder for him at least.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 7:41 AM | Report abuse

trade Carlos Rogers for a second-round pick to use on a defensive tackle or defensive end.

You really need to get off of this or come up with some proof. Other than you no one is reporting that the Skins plan on trading Rogers.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 16, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

I still say the Rogers thing is nothing until reported by a NFL insider who I trust. When I here Glazer or Shefter say it then I will say how I feel about it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

I really don think that they should trade carlos rogers, If they are going to trade one of ther DB's I really think that they should look at trading Fred Smoot not only did rogers have a better year last year but he has more size than smoot and is a better tackler.

Posted by: lboydjr1023 | January 16, 2009 8:05 AM | Report abuse

I'm all for trading Fred Smoot for 2nd round pick.

However, I doubt if they could get more than a pick at the local humane society for him.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 16, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

iboy,

The problem with that is no one not even Vinny would trade a pick for Fred Smoot.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 8:07 AM | Report abuse

flounder

Agreed about Shefter. The guy is always on point.

Another NFL Network guy I like is Mike Mayock. He made me realize that Mel Kiper really doesn't know what he thinks he knows when it comes to recognizing how college ability translates into an NFL system.

Let's hope the FO takes the simple route and uses the 4 picks in a common sense way and adds low cost undrafted guys and free agents as a move to start getter the team faster and younger.

It would be better to be way under the cap in 2010 than add high price guys now.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

I'm not down with trading Los. He played solid until he bit hard on the double move that sealed the ravens game. Then he loses his spot to Hall - who can catch the ball but also got burnt twice by D. Jackson. (The rookie dropped the ball twice so no harm.) Hall also doesn't wrap up when he tackles. He's simply a better smoot. Tackles but dosen't wrap, catches the ball, jaws, and gets beat.

I say let DeAngelo shop his services, give Carlos a little offer and start negotiations going into next season AND sign Asamougha.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 8:08 AM | Report abuse

jm agreed, much ado about nothing to me, no on else is reporting this, so I'm not sure how much merit there is to it.

Anyway, regarding the overall plan, I like it, value, youth, and starting experience, is a good jumping off point.

cl, from the previous, wasn't saying that champ wasn't a good player, never did I suggest that. Did I suggest he was OVER-RATED, yup, I certainly did....also easy with the word 'retarded'....you're better than that...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 8:09 AM | Report abuse

Don't trade Rogers. He proved to be a shut-down corner. i realize he drops interceptions but would you have a DB who gets burnt or one who knocks down the pass. with springs a year older and smoot decling, keeping Rogers is the prudent move. they wouldn't have to throw tyron to the wolves then.

Posted by: jimimac21 | January 16, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

Don't trade Rogers. He proved to be a shut-down corner. i realize he drops interceptions but would you have a DB who gets burnt or one who knocks down the pass. with springs a year older and smoot decling, keeping Rogers is the prudent move. they wouldn't have to throw tyron to the wolves then.

Posted by: jimimac21 | January 16, 2009 8:10 AM | Report abuse

The only guys of true trade value are #89 and #47.

If you could get a second round and another middle round pick this year out of moving either one of them, would you do it?

I didn't think so.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Mista,

Agreed on Mayock dude knows the draft just as well if not better then Kiper.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 8:15 AM | Report abuse

Trading Rogers is only speculation at best. Look what the Eagles tried to do last year with Lito Sheppard and go no takers. Rogers and Sheppard were in virtually the same boat and Lito was back with the iggles.

Posted by: rich20ssu | January 16, 2009 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Rich their are similarities to those situations but will Sheppard be a free agent this offseason? Carlos is free come 2010. If he plays like a shut down corner for half a season next year he will earn himself a ton of money and mostly from another team. Dallas is always looking for corners.

So agreed that its only speculation but also speculation with some merit. Where it seems to go haywire is in the who then will replace him? Tryon?

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 8:24 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious how Sanchez entering the draft is gonna shake things up. I think how well MCassell performed, has bumped up the general feeling of USC qb's....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Didn't JLC say haynesworth would be a good fit here, and the one guy we should pursue?

I don't want to trade Rogers.

I REALLY don't want to trade him if we lose Hall too.

Posted by: Rypien11 | January 16, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

I think the "pricey" FA (if they go after one) will/should be Karlos Dansby.

Other than that, I'm fine with everything that was said up there. The Rogers trade, including the way it was written ("I tend to think..."), is purely speculation. Any sensible look at the Redskins would show that you do not get value for Rogers by trading him for less than we gave up to get him (i.e. a top 10 pick).

As for this:

"I would think the Jason Taylor experience would have taught them not to deal multiple picks for older, marginal players."

You would have thought they'd have learned that from Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett, Matt Bowen, Chad Morton, John Hall, etc.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

hey GREG

U MAD AT CHAMP!?!

U MAD AT DA CHAMP!?!!!?!!?


don't be MAD AT DA CHAMP!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 8:30 AM | Report abuse

Trade a guy we picked in the top 10 for a 2nd round pick that may be a bust. That sounds smart. If there is no CBA, Rogers is under control for at least the next 2 years. It would be crazy to trade him. Who is going to be the other CB, Springs, maybe for 6 games. Smoot and Tryon would be a terrible mistake.

Maybe Hall signs somewhere else and the Redskins trade Rogers. That leaves Tryon & Smoot as the starting CB's. That is a good way to get the #1 pick in 2010.

Posted by: cspwoods3 | January 16, 2009 8:33 AM | Report abuse

Not a fan of trading Carlos, I dont see the problem with spending the money to lock down Hall and Rogers. We have already invested a lot of time in carlos and he is starting to show returns. Hall was a great pick up but what does it do if we only have him for half a season. You lock them both down you get a playmaker on one side and a sure tackler and run defense help on the other side.

Anyone else interested in Tnak Johson, I know hes a thugish cowboy but hes a FA this year and still young and very serviceable? Past troubles could help lower the price tag and were looking to shore up the middle of our D line

Posted by: Stu27 | January 16, 2009 8:35 AM | Report abuse

Maybe the Redskins can trade Carlos to New England for their 2nd and 4th round picks...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Did we trade a pick for morton? I forgot that if we did. Trading picks for a PR is really dumb. just wow dumb.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

I would be all for trading Rogers and letting Hall go IF we still had Leigh Torrence. Then we would only need to play one cornerback, and we could use that extra spot on another defensive linemen while Leigh Torrence mans up on the #1 and #2 WR's for the opposing team on each play.

Seriously, I feel confident Leigh could shut down TO and Roy Williams at the same time on every snap, ESPECIALLY if we're getting an even better pass rush with that extra defensive linemen.


BUT we don't have Leigh Torrence anymore, unless New Orleans will trade us Leigh for Carlos Rogers, a 2009 first rounder, a 2010 first rounder, and a 2011 first rounder. Then we're in business and ready to compete.

Leigh could even be our #2 WR on some plays and line up as our #2 RB as well. Can he punt or kick field goals?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Value either increases or decreases - see Randy Moss. The argument not to trade him because you picked him at #10 is absurd. If the Chargers could have traded Ryan Leaf for box of Marlboros they would have.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

"Anyone else interested in Tnak Johson, I know hes a thugish cowboy but hes a FA this year and still young and very serviceable? Past troubles could help lower the price tag and were looking to shore up the middle of our D line

Posted by: Stu27 "

uhhh NO

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

Anyone else interested in Tnak Johson

HELL NO!!!!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | January 16, 2009 8:42 AM | Report abuse

I think if we make a big FA move it should be for a kicker

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 8:43 AM | Report abuse

ugh, no thanks on TJohnson, too much of a headache for too little in return. Someone suggested yesterday picking up Plax, if he's cut by the Giants...another no thank you.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

Value either increases or decreases - see Randy Moss. The argument not to trade him because you picked him at #10 is absurd. If the Chargers could have traded Ryan Leaf for box of Marlboros they would have.

Posted by: bangkokben

-------

Comparing Ryan Leaf, a detrimental failure to his team with a monster contract, to Carlos Rogers, a 3-year starter and top cover corner in this league is what's absurd. You use a top 10 pick to get a top-line starter like Carlos Rogers. In Rogers' case, he has lived up to his method of acquirement. That is why you don't trade Rogers for less than what you gave up to acquire him.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 8:47 AM | Report abuse

here's hoping Pitt destroys Baltimore and shuts them up! Bunch of fake thugs!

Although I do have a suspicious that PITT Vs. BALT will be the game of the year! 100% serious, I think it's gonna be the best game this year.

It'll be just as good as the all-time instant classic Washington Redskins Vs. San Francisco 49ers in Week 16 of the 2008 NFL Season!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

I'm going with the 2 upsets this weekend. Arizona knocking off Philly, and Baltimore knocking off Pittsburgh.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

psp

I compared Carlos Rogers to Randy Moss in trade value and Ryan Leaf to box of cancer. Read everything. I'm NOT for the trade but not because of the draft pick. I'm not for the trade because there isn't quality on this roster.

Ramsey was traded for 6th round pick? The point is that the value changes - in Carlos' case by 30 to 40 picks.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

"In Rogers' case, he has lived up to his method of acquirement"

psp, I think he's had a couple of ok/average years, and then this past season played very good at times. In my opinion, he's had more seasons in which he's not lived up to his draft position, than one's where he has.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

People were talking about Carlos being a LEGIT Pro Bowler after the first 6 weeks.

and how old is he?


trading him is just a stupid, stupid idea. He will NOT get a 2nd rounder, probably a 3rd rounder at best, and trading him makes our strongest position (cornerback) suddenly a position of need.

Just dumb in every way.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 8:54 AM | Report abuse

Did I miss something? It appears that Carlos Rogers shot himself in the leg at a nite club--the Giants are giving Plaxico more love than the Redskins are giving Carlos. All the guy did was shut down TO in the second half of the 1st Dallas game.

Posted by: MPNangle | January 16, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

bangkokben -

Alright, I should've explained myself further. Value does change -- for certain players. I've posted many times up here a full explanation of why Rogers is a borderline elite CB in this league, and at the very least, a top starter. I didn't feel the need to rehash the entire thing, so I used his draft position as quick comparison. He has most definitely lived up to his draft status, and in that sense, he should not be traded for less than what we gave up to acquire him.

As for Randy Moss; just because he was traded for a certain value does not make it a smart trade. There's a reason the Raiders have been in the gutter for the last 6 years. That's not a valid comparison in my book.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Ok, first person to find ANYTHING from someone on the TEAM, saying they are shopping Rogers, gets 1Billion Bonus points.

What JLA is suggesting is mere speculation. Lets not act like this is a lead pipe lock, written in stone.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Did I miss something? It appears that Carlos Rogers shot himself in the leg at a nite club--the Giants are giving Plaxico more love than the Redskins are giving Carlos. All the guy did was shut down TO in the second half of the 1st Dallas game.

Posted by: MPNangle | January 16, 2009 8:58 AM |

Don't say the Skins this has not been reported by the Skins. Just because JLC is specualting does not make it so.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

If we traded for Torrence, there would be no need to improve the defensive line. There would be no need for a defensive line period. Or linebackers for that matter. Or Safeties.

Leigh Torrence = '75 Steelers('85 Bears + '00 Ravens)

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Greg,

My take is that starting last year, he lived up to his status. He was playing great ball last season until his injury, including locking down the #1 CB spot for Gregg while Springs and Smoot fought it out for the other starting spot. Prior to last season, Rogers had only been in the league 2 years. And in both of those years, he had been a significant contributor, just not fully developed. I think he's absolutely lived up to expectations.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

psp,

I agree not to trade him but I disagree on his value. I think he's shown tons of potential and for the life of me can't see why we're trying to lock up Hall not Los. Hall gets beat. Los can't catch.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Why trade a top 10 pick whose panned out for a second rounder? Makes no sense especially when you are going to need him in a year. This would be typical however. I'll believe it when i see it.

Posted by: SeanTizzy2DaHizzy | January 16, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

I don't think they will be setting spending records and I would think the Jason Taylor experience would have taught them not to deal multiple picks for older, marginal players.

B/C this hasn't happened to them already. The funny thing is, everyone, including the fans, pundints, league sources knew that Parcells was letting Taylor go for a reason. Arrogantly enough, Vinny did not.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 16, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

Guys

Please stop with the trade talk.

If you move Rogers, you become dependant on Shawn Springs and he doesn't play 16 games anymore.

You also need Fred Smoot to be what he used to be as what he looked like at the end of the season wasn't all that strong.

A player does need to be added to the defensive front 7 and Devin Thomas needs to beat out Randle El as the z-receiver and punt returner.

Trading #89 and #47 would take away what few tools Zorn has, even if you could 'flip' the trade into multiple picks.

The team would be better served to re-work the roster from the bottom up: remember, depth guys tend to ball all out on special teams, and good special teams shorten fields and score points as well.

Moe--like Thoreau--believes in 'simplify, simplify, simplify'

Keeping things simple should keep the Skins from looking stupid.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 9:16 AM | Report abuse

When you pick a 1st rounder, your not guaranteed to get a star player.....at all..........nor are you even guaranteed to get a starter.....so why would you trade a 2nd rounder which is a total crapshot to become a valuable contributor for your team, for a proven commodity in C. Rogers. I think GM's & wannabe GM's get too enamored with the inflated value of draft picks. A proven commodity in Randy Moss for a 3rd rounder.....I'm still in disbelief. I wonder what that 3rd rounder is doing for the Raiders right now ? I don't know who he is, maybe a role player...maybe a back up ? Maybe he is a rising star in the NFL......maybe he is a rising star in the car insurance industry right now too.

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 16, 2009 9:23 AM | Report abuse

OK Beantown how about calling Champ Bailey overrated is ignorant not retarded....kind of like citing the recently chapter 11 Circuit City a well run company is ignorant...

Posted by: chrislarry | January 16, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

Slippey,

It was actually a 4th rounder for Randy Moss.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 9:28 AM | Report abuse

whats up your backside cl?

sorry, you're right, Champ Bailey is the best cb EVER. He completely shut down the amazing Amani Toomer EVERY time they were matched up with one another....

There...how'd I do? Anything else you want me to parrot your opinion on?

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

UHHH a 4th rounder....even worse......can anyone get some clarification on what this 4th rounder has done for the Raiders at this point ? Who is he ?

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 16, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

What was up with that? Champ was a stud for us but Amani Toomer ate his lunch every time we played the Gints. Toomer just had him figured out.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Someone mentioned something about how Mike Mayock is some great judge of talent. That guy said Reggie Bush was a once in a lifetime can't miss talent. Mike Mayock would be working for an NFL team if he knew such a great talent evaluator...

Posted by: PaulK2 | January 16, 2009 9:33 AM | Report abuse

I believe that 4th rounder for Moss was this guy:

http://www.nfl.com/players/johnbowie/profile?id=BOW309732

a projected 7th rounder, hahaha

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | January 16, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

One thing i just realized is CR22's play started to fall off when DeAngelo came to town... fragile ego? Maybe we can get him to pick back up that ego and keep hall.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 9:36 AM | Report abuse

When we say "one pricey FA", are we including DeAngelo Hall in that? Because he is probably going to be a bit of a pricey FA.

The whole Rogers thing has to do with whether the Skins think they can sign him/afford to sign him. Which is also going to depend on whether they sign Hall and at what amount. If they honestly don't think they can sign him, then they should trade him and get some value before he bolts.

Personally, given that our secondary was the saving grace of this team, I hope we do everything we can to keep the unit intact (minus bringing back Springs at whatever ridiculous per-year salary he's going to demand).

Posted by: p1funk | January 16, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

Springs stays. Hall goes.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

John Bowie .......JOHN BOWIE FOLKS the 4th round pick that was taken for Randy Moss


Hey etrod,

I'll trade you John Bowie for Carlos Rogers !

Posted by: slipperyrichard | January 16, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

Nnamdi Asomugha!

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

OK, I know that Jasno is the only one reporting this so for now it should be taken with a grain of salt. But if what he's saying is true and Carlos was put off by DeAngelo being brought in and he's no longer happy here, we should trade him while he has value rather than get nothing for him when he leaves in free agency. It doesn't have to be this year as he's only a RFA after this season but if a guy is unhappy, I'd rather let him go than let him potentially create a distraction in the locker room. We have enough of those already.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 9:48 AM | Report abuse

"sorry, you're right, Champ Bailey is the best cb EVER.

Posted by: BeantownGreg"


Even though you're being sarcastic, the fact is many people can and have made legit arguments for Champ to be in the list of top 5/top 10 best corners ever. EVER.

But keep HATING pal, it's flattering to the CHAMP.

Did you know Micheal Jordan also lost games, got beat defensively, and missed game winning shots. So we can cancel him out of the top 3 best players ever too, right?

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

If you did not see the last two posts on Cooleys website. Check this video of a discruntel cowpie fan screaming at an ESPN reporter. How much you want to bet this guy=1/2 the guys on this blog in some ways.

http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/2009/01/tc-i-heart-ed-werder.html

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

"What was up with that? Champ was a stud for us but Amani Toomer ate his lunch every time we played the Gints. Toomer just had him figured out.

Posted by: Original_etrod | "

someone yesterday posted Toomer's stats against us with Champ here for each game, and it wasn't exactly dominating. Hell, it didn't even say how many times Champ was one on one with the guy.

And you're forgetting the fact that Champ was one of the few good players we had on defense when he was here.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

I'm curious how Sanchez entering the draft is gonna shake things up. I think how well MCassell performed, has bumped up the general feeling of USC qb's....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

Did you see Pete Carrols reaction. He was so PISSED.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 16, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

"If you did not see the last two posts on Cooleys website. Check this video of a discruntel cowpie fan screaming at an ESPN reporter. How much you want to bet this guy=1/2 the guys on this blog in some ways.

http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/2009/01/tc-i-heart-ed-werder.html


Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:01 AM"

I won't lie Alex! I was in the front row at the Georgia\BAMA game this year and when the game was out of reach, I resorted to yelling insults at Lee Corso. It was a small victory for me, but I'll take it when I can.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

Paulk2

Mayock also said that Jay Cutler was a better pick than Vince Young and Matt Leinhart.

He explains the value of a player by showing what are called 'cut-ups' (selected plays similar to what a NFL team runs) that explain how a guy will perform in a given situation.

The advantage is you get to see a guy you like performing techniques similar to what he might be doing in the pros.

Mayock just the other day compared the college performance a player he undervalued--Chris Johnson/Tenn.--to how the kid runs the same plays in the NFL.

And he admitted he was wrong in undervaluing the guy. Does Kiper do that?

Didn't think so.

Kiper puts you sleep with height, weight, and middle school vocabulary test scores.

The Madden GM trusts guys like Mayock--guys who know what they're talking about and admit their mistakes.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 10:04 AM | Report abuse

"Did you see Pete Carrols reaction. He was so PISSED.

Posted by: Devo2"

I was surprised and disappointed by Pete Carroll when I saw that. Dude is usually all class, but that was just ugh.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

dev, yeah, I heard that. Guess I don't understand him being upset, come on, first, its USC, so he'll probably have another year of top recruits in the nation coming to his school, and secondly, he's gotta have another qb waiting in the wings somewhere on that roster.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Truth,

Did he put on a mascot mask and run away?

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Moe,
I often wonder how many team scouts are looking at that type of offense stuff. One reason I think RBs and Safeties (and D in general) transition faster to the NFL is that that they are always going to do the same thing. Where there are so many Offensive systems that are in HS and College and don't work in the pro's. The only sad part about that to me is that I think when the option is run right it looks cool.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:14 AM | Report abuse

I didn't think Pete Carroll was pissed, he was simply stating that jumping to the league statistically hasn't worked for guys in Sanchez's situation. I think it was a smart decision to jump after hearing Mccoy, Bradford, and Tebow were staying in school. It's Sanchez and Stafford and Sanchez will make a alot more guaranteed money this year than if he waited till next.

Posted by: Skins281 | January 16, 2009 10:16 AM | Report abuse

No, Alex, I don't think he heard me. But if he did, he just ignored me.

He was running around to the line of scrimmage after every play on the Bama sideline like a little gnome.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I'd like to know what on earth makes JLC think that the J-Taylor trade has finally made our front office learn not to trade high picks for marginal players. What about Touch-down ducket? We do this every year, I have no faith until Cerrato goes. We need a GM, not a monkey.

Posted by: nalsmith | January 16, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

In defense of Carroll, what if they Cush'd him.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Mark Sanchez is leaving USC...?

I didn't see him.

Percy Harvin just ran by.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I dont understand the logic behind Jasno`s trade Rogers call. Either money is a factor or it isn`t. Above, Jasno claims that times are tuff at Redskins Park financially. If the Skins are operating under a budget, then they`re cutting Springs and playing Rogers who costs nearly nothing.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | January 16, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I have fond memories of yelling drunken obscenities at Michael Irvin during a MNF pregame a few years ago. That's part of the beauty of being a fan.

Numbers don't always tell the story. Toomer's numbers may not have been dominating, but that dude always made plays that had to be made against us--usually with Champ in tow.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Yes, but the experts seemed to think he had a lot of potential. I think I mentioned him on RI at the time. Natch it was shot full of holes. The Falcons were pretty hapless. Did not seem like they would ever use him. Seemed like a good place to pluck some good players.

"At the time the Skins added Pete Kendall (August 2007), Harvey Dahl had played in only four games ... in his career ... not started ... one series on the offensive line ... special teams.

Dahl was an undrafted free agent (practice squad for the 49ers in 2006 ... picked up by Falcons in 2007 ... earned a starter spot this past off-season)."

Posted by: periculum | January 15, 2009 8:22 PM
______________________

"Does anyone think that Heyer might move to guard once Samuels comes back?"

NO, he is a tackle, as is Armstrong. He will not move to guard. That they will only risk with a veteran. Rookies have enough to learn, enough on their plate.
Its Pucillo, Tucker, Whitley, or Lefotu. Those are your guards.

Posted by: periculum | August 22, 2007 4:39 PM
________________________


fab·u·list

Pronunciation: \ˈfa-byə-list\

Function: noun

Date: 1593

1 : a creator or writer of fables

2 : liar

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

Alex

The safety and linebacker play in the NFL is too good for teams to run the option.

Plus: nobody is going to let a $120 million quarterback take the hits that come with that kind of scheme.

But there are folks who think the spread offense that dominated the Big 12 might be the future system of the NFL--or that the shotgun might become the base formation as it gives the defense that much more to cover.

Perhaps Zorn will bend a lil bit and let Campbell run the Skins offense from the 'gun, especially on 1st down.

Campbell is better in that formation as he sees his options better, and the shaky o-line issues aren't as bad.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Easy Solution about the backfield,

Cut Springs. Do not trade Los. Why cut Springs? B/C it's frees up $6 mill, which you can use towards signing Hall. Hall & Los paired with our talented youth at safety = a dominant D Backfield for many, many years.

Springs is getting old and his age has made him a slow healer, which is not good for DB. If we cut Springs, it is likely he will sign somewhere, probably Dallas, for a lot of money and play in half the games. Calf injuries for corners are not good a thing. Hell we could probably trade Springs for a 3rd or 4th?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Let me clarify in this Obama world:

When I say 'Black' I mean Afro-Americans from America. Not Africans from africa or america.

(Did that sound rascist? I hope not.)

Posted by: 4thFloor | January 15, 2009 10:45 PM

Sounds Americanist.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"I didn't think Pete Carroll was pissed, he was simply stating that jumping to the league statistically hasn't worked for guys in Sanchez's situation. I think it was a smart decision to jump after hearing Mccoy, Bradford, and Tebow were staying in school. It's Sanchez and Stafford and Sanchez will make a alot more guaranteed money this year than if he waited till next.

Posted by: Skins281 |"

I'm not arguing against Carroll's opinion at all, but for him to say that is almost like him saying he doesn't think Sanchez is ready, which no coach should say when one of their players is looking at big money based on whether NFL scouts think he is ready or not.

Just seems like it would hurt a QB entering the draft for his college head coach to say it is a mistake. Carroll lost some points with me there.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

stop it with the 'trade springs' talk...just stop.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Some stats to chew on:

Player Int Passdef
Carlos..2..26
Hall....2..10
Springs.1...8
Smoot...1...8
Champ...1...4
Nnamdi..1..10
Asante..4..26

Ed Reed.9..25
LaRon...2..13

Carlos Rogers and Asante Samuel were tied for 3rd in passes defended. Corey Webster and Leon Hall both had 27.

Keep Los!

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

beantown,

Why?
And why is Justin Tryon regarded as a roster player over Byron Westbrook?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

But there are folks who think the spread offense that dominated the Big 12 might be the future system of the NFL--or that the shotgun might become the base formation as it gives the defense that much more to cover.

Perhaps Zorn will bend a lil bit and let Campbell run the Skins offense from the 'gun, especially on 1st down.

Campbell is better in that formation as he sees his options better, and the shaky o-line issues aren't as bad.

Posted by: MistaMoe

I do think that you may be right about the spread and I was calling for putting JC in shotgun after week 1. During the streak he was in shotgun a lot and putting up his best numbers. I think if you go back to the archives and look, JLC had a piece about JC's numbers jumping up when in shotgun. I think his QBR was up like 15 points.

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

" ... I tend to think they ... trade Carlos Rogers for a second-round pick ...."

By Jason La Canfora | January 16, 2009; 7:14 AM ET

jm220, Flounder, Beantown ... there is a wide wide gap between "I tend to think" and "I am reporting that" ... this is a blog ... speculation ... guestimation ... not reporting. I'm not defending Jasno ... I'm advocating reading comprehension.

That said, I agree with bangkokben that it would be a better idea to hang onto Carlos Rogers than it would be the roll the dice on a second round pick (if such a trade were even available). Didn't quite achieve immediate success on last year's second round picks.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse


My PTI impression via text:

Mike: Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble.
Tony: WAAA Rabble Rabble.
Mike: Rabble Rabble WAAAAAAA Ovechkin Rabble!
Tony: Rabble WAAA Rabble U-S-A! U-S-A! Rabble WAAA!
Mike: Rabble Rabble WAAA BOOOOO RABBLE WAA!
Tony: WAAAAAAA Rabble Rabble Rabble WAAAAA WAAAAAAA!

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

Not to add fuel to the Champ Bailey24 fire, but I believe there were other WR's who consistantly made him look bad. Anyone remember Rocket Ismail of the cowboys? Champ just did so well an overwhelming percentage of the time, ppl overlooked when he occassionally got beat. I recall seeing him get beat more often in Denver. Anyone recall this? I remember thinkin, the trade wasnt so bad huh?

Posted by: VaBeachBlitz | January 16, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

matt, no team is going to trade for an older, injured player, at that salary. Period.

It. Wont. Happen.

dc, all I ever advocated was there to be more people reporting this, more substance to it, prior to people acting like this was a foregone conclusion.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

bangkok, those passes defended stats don't don't really mean a thing because they don't tell the whole story. Asomugha's numbers, for instance, reflect the fact that he is not thrown at very often. Champ only played 9 games this year.

How many of Los' passes defended were actually dropped INTs?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

dc,

I know JLC is specualting that is why I'm not even talking about it. Like I said if Glazer or Shefter reports the Skins have put Los. on the trading block then I will discuss.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

From PFT,

MRI SHOWS POSSIBLE “MAJOR DAMAGE” TO SUGGS’ SHOULDER
Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 9:55 a.m. EST
One of the great mysteries leading up to Ravens-Steelers III is whether Frank Walker will spit in anyone else’s mouth.

The other great mystery is whether Baltimore linebacker Terrell Suggs will play in the game.

On Thursday, Suggs said that he could have “major ligament damage” in his shoulder, based on the results of an MRI exam conduct after he injured the joint against the Titans six days ago.

“There’s a good chance that I possibly won’t get to line up and play for the championship with my team,” Suggs said. “And not ever missing a game in the past, to make this one be my first one, it’s not something I’m going to be really happy about. But it is what it is, you’ve just got to do whatever’s in your power to get better and to get healthy.”

And, surely, Suggs’ looming crack at free agency is a factor in this decision, given that further damage could be done to his shoulder if he plays.

“It’s not like food poisoning or nothing like that,” Suggs said. “It’s my shoulder, and I definitely don’t want to mess it up more than it already is. There’s a big chance it could get worse, especially in this smash-mouth game.”

Of course, it could be that the injury already has “messed up” both his shoulder, and his next contract. Three years ago, quarterback Drew Brees was forced to sign, in essence, a one-year ”prove it” deal with the Saints after “messing up” his shoulder in a meaningless regular-season finale.

Though Brees ultimately proved that he’s fine, the shoulder was sufficiently “messed up” to prompt the Dolphins to choose giving up a second-round pick for Daunte Culpepper over signing Brees for nothing.

As the Baltimore Sun points out, Suggs might play only in passing situations. There’s also a chance that Suggs is downplaying his status, in order to get the Steelers to assume that he won’t be on the field.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Beantown,

Yeah, that was wishful thinking on my part.

Check out this mock selection at #3:
From Walterfootball.com
++Kansas City Chiefs: Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
With Sam Bradford going back to school, this selection has become a lot more difficult to predict.

I have a feeling that a lot of mocks in the 2009 NFL Mock Draft Database will have Aaron Curry going here. I don't see that happening. The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think? ++

Slightly better than Synder? No way!

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

I think if we make a big FA move it should be for a kicker

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 8:43 AM

I am down with this, esp. if it would feed The Owner's appetite for plash moves. Top kickers can't be as expansive as formerly tagged guys like Haynesworth, Asomugha, or Jordan Gross.

Also, etrod, good point about trying to get value out of Carlos Rogers now if he's disgruntled about the acquisition of Hall ... the only thing is that I think the management brains of the operation don't really "get" stuff like that and it wouldn't occur to them.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

"How many of Los' passes defended were actually dropped INTs?

Posted by: learnedhand1 "

Why does that matter so much? Obviously an INT would be better, but would you rather it be a WR catch or a CB dropped interception?

Or maybe you would rather have Carlos barely break up the pass at the last second instead of being in position to intercept it?

Dropped INT or not, it's still a pass deflection and it still keeps the WR from catching the ball, which is 90% of a corner's job.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Ummm ... I no longer think the Skins should make a move for Terrell Suggs ... unless there is a shoulder discount.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

In order to get value you need to give value.

I think the Skins have debt at CB and that Carlos Rogers would be the right guy to trade. He's still young enough to bring some value in return and, as long as the team signs DeAngelo Hall, we can afford to let Rogers go.

The team needs help on both OL and DL and we need a second round pick. I'm in favor of a Rogers trade if we can get a mid to high second round pick.

Posted by: dlenehan | January 16, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

I honestly think the skins should have Rogers' eyes checked. He has always seemed to have a problem judging where the ball is and not getting his hands up quick enough. Could be depth perception or near sightedness.

Posted by: Original_etrod | January 16, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Learnedhand,

Agreed. You can spin them anyway you want. My point is that finding a better cornerback than Rogers is difficult. Hall played with Asomugha and was targeted. I don't think he is a better corner.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"The last time a player who wasn't a quarterback, running back, receiver, offensive tackle, defensive end or under tackle was chosen in the top three selections was LaVar Arrington (Redskins, 2000). I think Scott Pioli is a slightly better drafter than Daniel Snyder, don't you think? ++

Slightly better than Synder? No way!

Posted by: matthewvickers "


I don't see anything wrong with the LaVar pick.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

Here is what I found about kicker salaries.
"Q: Who is the highest paid kicker in the NFL?
A: For the 2007 season, that was Adam Vinatieri of the Indianapolis Colts who signed a contract in 2006 to pay him $12 million over 5 years. "

Posted by: alex35332 | January 16, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Did you see Pete Carrols reaction. He was so PISSED.

Posted by: Devo2"

I was surprised and disappointed by Pete Carroll when I saw that. Dude is usually all class, but that was just ugh.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 10:05 AM | Report abuse

dev, yeah, I heard that. Guess I don't understand him being upset, come on, first, its USC, so he'll probably have another year of top recruits in the nation coming to his school, and secondly, he's gotta have another qb waiting in the wings somewhere on that roster.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

I don't know. It looked like he and Sanchez had talked earlier and decided to go for a national championship next year. B/C you're right, Carrol is all class most of the time. I just get the feeling that Sanchez lied to him.

Posted by: Devo2 | January 16, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Trading Rogers seems like throwing good money after bad. The bad being trading away a second rounder for an smallish (by DE standards) old dancer. At least with Rogers you know you've got a solid if unspectacular corner. Vinny's history with second rounders is worrisome to say the least and going with Hall as a full time starter seems destined for failure. While Hall has much better hands than Rogers some of those picks seemed like plain bad throws not from anything he did.

Posted by: skinswest | January 16, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Truth, you're right it really doesn't matter and it wasn't the point of my post. You're arguing with a throw away line. My point was that passes defended is a meaningless stat. If a CB is covering a guy so well that the QB doesn't throw to him, not having a pass defended does not reflect his skill any more than tipping bad throw after he's been beaten.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

+++The team needs help on both OL and DL and we need a second round pick. I'm in favor of a Rogers trade if we can get a mid to high second round pick.

Posted by: dlenehan | January 16, 2009 10:49 AM+++

Why do we NEED a second pick? We don't need a second round pick, sure would be nice to have one but not at the expense of creating a void that certainly will not be filled with that pick. Everyone gets beat from time to time but Los's numbers (and skills to an extent) are comparable to the best of the best. And that to me is superior than a second round pick.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

"bangkok, those passes defended stats don't don't really mean a thing because they don't tell the whole story...

How many of Los' passes defended were actually dropped INTs?

Posted by: learnedhand1"

Just as those stats don't tell the whole story, neither does the assertion that Los' passes defensed were actually dropped INTs.

Have you considered the idea that maybe Rogers is just that much better than other CBs at getting his hands on the ball? I mean I'm a diehard Rogers supporter, but even I'll admit that Hall's hands are exponentially better than Rogers'. Even with that, Hall ended up with only 1 more INT than Rogers during his brief tenure here. Why is that?

Nothing about any of those stats, including "dropped INTs", says that another corner would cause a significant boost in INTs on the season. What you gain in hands by replacing Rogers, you lose in ability to actually get to the ball. Yes Rogers drops a lot of INTs, but only because he's so good at getting there in the first place.

Find me a corner that can consistently make plays on the ball without sacrificing positioning on getting beat, has great hands, and can do it without pressure on the QB to rush his decisions. Do that, and Rogers is replaceable.

My guess is unless we somehow sign Nnamdi Asomugha, people are searching for something that isn't out there.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 11:01 AM | Report abuse

psp23, please see my post at 10:59 am. You're chasing ghosts.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Fortunately, the person to whom my comment was initially addressed understand my point.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

dlenehan

If you trade Rogers:

it means Hall has been re-signed

Smoot is better than what you think and hasn't slowed down

Justin Tyron is worth playing

Shawn Springs and his contract are still hanging around

The FO brings has brought in a low cost cb/safety as an insurance policy

To me, that's too much to hope for, even if the trade renders a good pick.

Let's keep it simple and easy this off-season and re-build the back ups and depth guys.

The only trade we should engage in is trading crazy, illogical moves for locker room chemistry and stability

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I was never a big fan of going after Suggs, and am even less of a fan after hearing that.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Those stats I posted earlier are from the NFL.com defensive player stats - which for reason are not congruent with the career player stats per year 2008. Most of the players PDef stats are off by one or two. Not such a big deal. Howerve Hall's Raider stats were not included in the 2008 season stats. 13 PDef and 3 Ints.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

my bad learnedhand, gotcha now

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 11:15 AM | Report abuse

Why even discuss CR vs Hall. CR is under contract, gets him amped up and bring him back. Like someone said, he is a RFA if the new CBA gets signed. So either we will get something from him, or if he doesnt get signed, his monitary demand just went down and we can extend him for less.

So the only options as I see it are...

1) Trade CR and resign hall
2) Keep CR and resign hall
3) Keep CR and let hall walk.

2 is most preferrable, 1 is acceptable since we should add a 2nd rounder (and only a two, no less) and 3 sucks cause we get nothing for Hall.

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Keep Carlos Rogers, maybe if we can increase the pass pressure then he might actually catch a few passes because the throw from the QB will probably be an erant throw.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | January 16, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

CARLOS ROGERS WON'T GET A SECOND ROUNDER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

CARLOS ROGERS WON'T GET A SECOND ROUNDER

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 11:18 AM |

Amen Truth

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"BELMAR, N.J. – If New York Yankees star Joba Chamberlain really WAS at the Jersey shore, wouldn't he ask for something better than a bagel? That question apparently was never asked when a Toms River man with a strong resemblance to the Yankee pitcher allegedly implied that he was Chamberlain. Ryan Ward, 30, was charged with theft by deception and disorderly conduct, and could get more than a year in jail if convicted.

He's charged with scamming a Belmar bagel shop out of free food last summer after allegedly telling an employee, "Do you know who I am?" and pointing to a photo of Chamberlain in a newspaper sports section.

Police said he signed autographs and promised women free Yankee tickets.

Ward has denied the charges, telling the Asbury Park Press, "You can't have fun anymore, can you?"

The newspaper dubbed him "Joba-The-Not."

His municipal court trial is scheduled for Feb. 11.

Police in Monmouth County say Ward represented himself as Chamberlain in other businesses in Belmar and Spring Lake, and was banned from a few local bars because of it.

Ward declined to answer specific questions about his actions, telling the newspaper, "It was something I did for the summer. I had a lot of fun with it."

His attorney, Constantine Bardis, called the charges against Ward a "tragedy."

"What's the crime in pretending to be someone?" Bardis asked. "I'm Mel Gibson; want to have a drink? He just goofed around because he kind of looks like the guy."

Ward then corrected his lawyer.

"He looks like me," Ward said.

Belmar Police Chief Jack Hill called Ward a "nut," saying Ward broke the law when he pretended to be a Yankees pitcher.

"He impersonated another person and took advantage of it," Hill said. "We frown on people taking other people's identity."

A Yankees spokesman declined comment."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

learned,

I'm chasing nothing. You said "passes defensed is a meaningless stat". Hogwash. It shows the ability of a defender to make a play on the ball. It doesn't tell the whole story mind you, just as both you and I stated, but it is not meaningless. It's relative to the amount of passes thrown in their direction.

Saying passes defensed is a meaningless stat is like saying a WRs receptions are a meaningless stat because it doesn't take into account the total amount of attempted passes thrown to the WR.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I like Rogers as part of the backfield. I don't know which way I go on Smoot vs. Hall, though. But either way, Rogers has the most upside of all our CBs right now. I think you gotta keep him.

Posted by: wp11239 | January 16, 2009 11:28 AM | Report abuse

Just cause you scream it doesnt make it so truth... if that is the case, then he stays...

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Receptions = passess defended? OK.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

I like Carlos Rogers, but he has brick hands, and the Skins have depth in the secondary, so sayonara!

Besides, if you can't pressure the opposing QB, you can have a Hall of Famer in his prime at every position in the secondary and still get picked apart.

If the Skins can get an early round draft pick for him and use that pick to improve the O or D line or get a good linebacker, then I say go for it.

None of the pro-bowl starting cornerbacks made the playoffs and we saw what Champ Bailey did for the Broncos - NOTHING!

CBs are like WRs and RBs - need good ones, but not great ones (unless they're inexpensive). Once they're due a big contract, set them free and let some other sucker pay tem.

Lastly, Ed Reed would have 2 INTs if he played for the Skins. Many of his picks are a result of pressue on the QB. That's why a lot of those balls fall from the sky right into his hands. Even Carlos could make those catches.

Posted by: saqster | January 16, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

along with that LH;

passes defensed*3 = ints

passes defensed that end a drive *2 = int (with a variable of field position plugged in somewhere)

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

All you Carlos supporters are missing the point. Yes, I agree with you that he had a great season and 9 times out of 10 you should do everything to keep a player of his caliber on the team. However, something happened this year that makes the 1 out of 10 the right decision: D Hall

The redskins were fortunate enough to acquire him as a FA in the middle of the season for basically nothing. This means we have three starting caliber CBs with only two starting positions. Springs is the most talented and has the least amount of trade value due to his age and injury history, there is no point in trying to move him.

This leaves the decision to either A) keep Hall and Rogers or B)get rid of one. If you keep both, Rogers leaves after he is a free agent and you get no compensation. Hall is a free agent so you cant trade him, and if he walks you get no compensation either.

In my opinion there isnt a big difference between the two. Los is a better cover corner, Hall is better at creating turnovers. They are about the same age and will cost the same amount to resign (whichever one we keep will want a new contract). So as a GM the decision becomes do you keep Los or do you replace him for a CB who is just as good and get a 2nd round pick? Keep in mind that your team has about 6 starting positions where you need to have a new replacements within 2 years.

Its a no-brainer, trade him !

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

CARLOS ROGERS WON'T GET A SECOND ROUNDER

Posted by: TheTruth11


I don't understand why you would think this, if what some are saying that Rogers is on the verge of being an all pro. In addition, Rogers is still young, and is signed for next year. If Rogers is on the market, getting a second should be the minimum the Skins should request.

Posted by: TWISI | January 16, 2009 11:41 AM | Report abuse

"Springs is the most talented and has the least amount of trade value due to his age and injury history, there is no point in trying to move him."

Springs also is the most expensive, can save the most on the cap, and has the least future value for this team. Therefore, there is no point in trying to keep him over Rogers/Hall.

"So as a GM the decision becomes do you keep Los or do you replace him for a CB who is just as good and get a 2nd round pick?"

Might I ask who you think can replace Rogers that is "just as good"?

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

stock,

If you trade Rogers:
Who do you play at CB for the 10 games that Springs will miss do to injury?

Smoot is not a good CB anymore.

Springs should be gone that gives you 6mil to sign Hall.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

Skins need to cut salary? Fire Vinny. Boom! Problem solved. They get better leadership and some pocket change for the owner.

Posted by: fufighter2121 | January 16, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

"Keep in mind that your team has about 6 starting positions where you need to have a new replacements within 2 years."

And the point is that this number would move up to 7 positions if Rogers is moved. You do not gain anything of future value by trading Rogers.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 11:46 AM | Report abuse

Trading Los is a ridiculous idea. We finally have the opportunity to have two talented young CBs and we want to trade one of them? Then again, we did use a 2nd round pick to address the "critical" need at TE because the WC offense needs two vertical TEs in order to work. Yeah.

When is "Mr. Insider" gonna give us his evaluation of the coaching staff? I can't wait to hear his kind words about how well they performed.

Posted by: dcwun | January 16, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

I've been out of touch, What is wrong with Terrell Sugg's shoulder?

Posted by: Tyler2Durden | January 16, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

K, I know everyone will say it can't be done again cause everyone thinks a coach like Blache, who coach running backs at Notre Dame, couldn't figure out how to coach a 3-4, but if this post is true, it would seem to me again, that the sign of two guys like Gabe Watson and Grady Jackson and a combination of two linebackers would go a long way towards fixing our pressure problems a lot cheaper and easier than finding mid round talent at DT or DE or "value" free agents to suddenly get us the pressure that has been missing for 15 years now.

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 16, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

"So as a GM the decision becomes do you keep Los or do you replace him for a CB who is just as good and get a 2nd round pick?"

Might I ask who you think can replace Rogers that is "just as good"?


He's saying you can only keep one long term, so keep the one who wouldn't provide any compensation in return and trade the guy who can give you a draft pick in return.

Again, it wouldn't matter if the Skins had Rod Woodson and Deion Sanders in their prime at CB. Until they can put pressure on opposing QBs, they won't be a championship Defense.

On the other hand, if you can pressure the opposing QB, you don't need high-priced cornerbacks. D line and linebackers are where it's at (see Ravens and Steelers).

Posted by: saqster | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

MRI SHOWS POSSIBLE “MAJOR DAMAGE” TO SUGGS’ SHOULDER
Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 9:55 a.m. EST
One of the great mysteries leading up to Ravens-Steelers III is whether Frank Walker will spit in anyone else’s mouth.

The other great mystery is whether Baltimore linebacker Terrell Suggs will play in the game.

On Thursday, Suggs said that he could have “major ligament damage” in his shoulder, based on the results of an MRI exam conduct after he injured the joint against the Titans six days ago.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Hall signed last year with the Raiders a seven year $66.28 million deal. He will want something like this and the 'skins should give him half - maybe.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

and I can't believe they are thinking of trading Rogers to hang onto an injury prone old corner....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

zj, keep beating that horse buddy....are you somehow related to either Watson, or Jackson??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

+++You really need to get off of this or come up with some proof. Other than you no one is reporting that the Skins plan on trading Rogers.

JM220+++

The Board has spoken. We are full of ourselves and demand action on your part. Because, y'know, have we ever steered you wrong before?

Posted by: TheCork | January 16, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Hall signed last year with the Raiders a seven year $66.28 million deal. He will want something like this and the 'skins should give him half - maybe.

Posted by: bangkokben | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM |

He will never get anything like that again, the Skins should offer no more then 5yr for 25mil if he don't like it watch the doorknob on your way out.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Or put another way don't let the door hit ya were the good Lord split ya.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

saqster - Maybe that's true, but it also assumes that the 2nd round pick returned for Carlos Rogers will turn into an all-pro, attack the QB talent like Terrell Suggs, James Harrison, or Lamar Woodley.

If you could guarantee a return like that, then I'd be all for it. But as of right now, you're tangibly weakening the one strength of the defense (which is a great defense) at the possibility of upgrading a weaker part (and only an average possibility at that). That's not smart management, in my opinion.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

That said, I agree that dealing Rogers is really iffy. I don't think he'll get a 2nd for him, because teams know, if they wait, he'll mark him down.

Without Rogers, the starters are Hall (if they can sign him) and either Springs or Smoot.

This is a disaster waiting to happen.

Posted by: TheCork | January 16, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

What's wrong with picking up Plax or Irvin? Both can only wreak havoc on teams that do not have strong leaders in the locker rooms. I don't think Fletcher, CP or others would have a problem with either. Plax is a danger to Plax and is young and stupid. Hopefully this last incident will speed up his maturity process. Just because he is a well paid professional football player does not mean he is where he should be in the maturity department. I compare some of the dumb things he gets into with my own younger family members. With the exception of the gun incident, he is on par with them as far as stupid actions and comments. TO justs runs his mouth. He likes to pick on QBs if he does not get the ball as much as he likes. That could help us. I'm sure JC can handle TO's crap - he hears it all the time from fans and media. JZ on the other hand would not be able to handle it. Heck, he might even call more pass plays where we actually go downfield. Bottom line, TO is still a very productive, big receiver he runs his mouth when he does not get the ball. I'm okay with the last part.

Posted by: SPUD2 | January 16, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Psps: I dont know the exact details but I know we keep redoing Springs contract every year. I would imagine that there would be a big cap hit if we traded or released him, so actually he would be the most expensive of the three to get rid of.

When I say "just as good" I was referring to Hall.

Flounder: Sign another FA! The fact is you cant keep all three. It wont work

Dont discount the value of a 2nd round pick, dont you think the skins could use a Desean Jackson, donnie avery, john carlson, eddie royal, or matt forte type player? Are you telling me you wouldnt trade Los for Hall and D Jackson??? thats essentially what your are saying if you are against that trade.

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Zeebs, what does a passed defended (a dropped INT) that allows a team to continue a game winning drive equal?

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Dont know why everyone isnt focusing this trade thing on the Vinny...We are in this spot because of his stupid move last year with Waltzing with Matilda. Trading Los is ass in nine!!!! Good solid corner, will play opposite Hall...yada yada yada...Man I'd love to just hall off and punch Vinny in the nose

Posted by: Tyler84101 | January 16, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

"I would imagine that there would be a big cap hit if we traded or released him, so actually he would be the most expensive of the three to get rid of.

Posted by: stock_wiz456"

----

He has an $8 million salary. His cap hit would be $2 million to release. He saves $6 million on the cap if he's cut.

Cutting him saves the 2nd most cap space of any player on the roster (Jason Taylor saves $8.5 million). He's by far the cheapest of the 3 to cut, and the most expensive of the 3 to keep.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Lastly, Ed Reed would have 2 INTs if he played for the Skins. Many of his picks are a result of pressue on the QB. That's why a lot of those balls fall from the sky right into his hands. Even Carlos could make those catches.

Posted by: saqster | January 16, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse
You've got to be kidding! I'm all for keeping CR22, but he does not have Reed's hands. That pick that Reed made when it dropped from over his head, most WR's would not be able to make that catch.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 16, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

stock, he is a RFA, which means we tender him and someone has to give up a draft pick to take him... unless the CBA doesnt get signed

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

and I can't believe they are thinking of trading Rogers to hang onto an injury prone old corner....

Posted by: zjfr2 | January 16, 2009 11:50 AM

ZJack, there is no "they" (referring to management in the Skins) ... all of this discussion was spawned Jasno's post were he said "... I tend to think ... trade Carlos Rogers ...." This is all conjecture on his part; I don't think even he would pretend that its any more than that.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

What's wrong with picking up Plax or Irvin?

Posted by: SPUD2 | January 16, 2009 11:57 AM

I think the warden might have a problem with letting the former practice and the latter is retired.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

... Ed Reed would have 2 INTs if he played for the Skins. ...

Posted by: saqster | January 16, 2009 11:34 AM

Agree to disagree. I say Reed either never would have come back from the neck injury or would have gotten "compartmental syndrome."

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

"And the point is that this number would move up to 7 positions if Rogers is moved. You do not gain anything of future value by trading Rogers."

I disagree, Hall is a starting caliber CB in this league. Thats not really debatable. If you are Hall and you are a free agent, why would you resign with a team (skins) to be the third CB when 12 teams will offer you a starting position and a whole bunch of money?

If you trade Los you replace with Hall (starter replaced with starter). If you dont trade los HALL IS GONE !!!!

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

This leaves the decision to either A) keep Hall and Rogers or B)get rid of one. If you keep both, Rogers leaves after he is a free agent and you get no compensation. Hall is a free agent so you cant trade him, and if he walks you get no compensation either.

In my opinion there isnt a big difference between the two. Los is a better cover corner, Hall is better at creating turnovers. They are about the same age and will cost the same amount to resign (whichever one we keep will want a new contract). So as a GM the decision becomes do you keep Los or do you replace him for a CB who is just as good and get a 2nd round pick? Keep in mind that your team has about 6 starting positions where you need to have a new replacements within 2 years.

Its a no-brainer, trade him !

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse
This leaves the decision to either A) keep Hall and Rogers or B)get rid of one. If you keep both, Rogers leaves after he is a free agent and you get no compensation. Hall is a free agent so you cant trade him, and if he walks you get no compensation either.

In my opinion there isnt a big difference between the two. Los is a better cover corner, Hall is better at creating turnovers. They are about the same age and will cost the same amount to resign (whichever one we keep will want a new contract). So as a GM the decision becomes do you keep Los or do you replace him for a CB who is just as good and get a 2nd round pick? Keep in mind that your team has about 6 starting positions where you need to have a new replacements within 2 years.

Its a no-brainer, trade him !

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse
I doubt that CR gets a 2nd round pick, but just for argument sake, let's accept that.

I say you still keep CR, and let SS go unless he lowers his salary. SS is a very good CB, and handles some WR's well, such as TO. He is not as good against real quick WR's.

But his age is catching up to him. He played in only 8 game s this year. And the problem was with his legs. Not a good sign, if you need to play someone 14-16 games next year.

We should sign Hall, keep CR, and negotiate with SS at a lower salary.

If you are hoping to use your "second round pick" from a trade, get that position in FA.

Posted by: frediefritz | January 16, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

lh;

-500 bonus points

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

Maybe we can trade Rogers and our 13th pick to be able to get one of the top Tackles in this year's draft... maybe we can get a 3rd or 4th round pick out of it too...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 12:17 PM | Report abuse

"If you dont trade los HALL IS GONE !!!!

Posted by: stock_wiz456"

What possible evidence makes you believe this?

Hall has already signed with this team, choosing them over other suitors for a reason. And he already earned a starting spot for this team. Rogers' position on this roster will have zero effect on Hall's decision.

And the point is that Hall is not a replacement for Rogers. It's pretty amateur to think that way (which is why I don't put it by Vinny). Hall should be a replacement for Springs. THAT is where the logic should be. Springs is old, breaking down, has trouble staying healthy, and is only signed on for another year or two. He will be gone within 2 years. If you either trade Rogers or let Hall walk, you've just created an extra position that needs to be replaced within the next 2 years.

That's how trading Rogers bumps your "6 positions that needs starters within 2 years" up to 7 positions.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

"He has an $8 million salary. His cap hit would be $2 million to release. He saves $6 million on the cap if he's cut.

Cutting him saves the 2nd most cap space of any player on the roster (Jason Taylor saves $8.5 million). He's by far the cheapest of the 3 to cut, and the most expensive of the 3 to keep. "

No, I think thats a guaranteed salary (i could be wrong) If it is, then you would have an $8M hit. Even if it isnt guaranteed, it costs nothing to let Hall go and Los should be very cheap to trade as he is coming to the end of his rookie contract, so he probably still is the most expensive of the three

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Trading Carlos Rogers for anything but multiple picks would be ridiculous. He's a first round pick and played great at the beginning of the season. He dropped a couple balls that he should have had, but the pass was still defended. He had a couple picks later in the season as well. I think he's panning out to be a great player.

Posted by: remain | January 16, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Zeebs, already has.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 12:22 PM | Report abuse

No, I think thats a guaranteed salary (i could be wrong) If it is, then you would have an $8M hit. Even if it isnt guaranteed, it costs nothing to let Hall go and Los should be very cheap to trade as he is coming to the end of his rookie contract, so he probably still is the most expensive of the three


Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:19 PM |

You are very wrong, he saves 6mil against the cap, we have discussed this numerous times and JLC did a post about it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Dudes..Vinny will screw up a second rounder if he recieved a second rounder for Los... Vinny hates 2nd rounders....point: traded 2nd for MBrunell//traded 2nd for Champ Baily//traded 2nd for Dancing Queen//Used three 2nd this year and got 3 duds...Do not let this guy have any 2nd rounders

Posted by: Tyler84101 | January 16, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

No, I think thats a guaranteed salary (i could be wrong) If it is, then you would have an $8M hit. Even if it isnt guaranteed, it costs nothing to let Hall go and Los should be very cheap to trade as he is coming to the end of his rookie contract, so he probably still is the most expensive of the three

Posted by: stock_wiz456

-----

Stock, trust me, Springs is the most expensive to keep, and the cheapest to cut.

Letting Hall walk costs $0 and saves $0.

Cutting or trading Rogers will actually cost the team $1 million net.

Cutting or trading Springs saves $6 million. It's not even close.

http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

Dudes..Vinny will screw up a second rounder if he recieved a second rounder for Los... Vinny hates 2nd rounders....point: traded 2nd for MBrunell//traded 2nd for Champ Baily//traded 2nd for Dancing Queen//Used three 2nd this year and got 3 duds...Do not let this guy have any 2nd rounders

Posted by: Tyler84101 | January 16, 2009 12:24 PM |

Tyler,

2 of these moves are on Vinny the 3 2nd rounders and Dancing Queen, the other two are on Gibbs he was the one in charge he was the one in love with Brunell after he saved his life not Vinny.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Springs is only under contract for next season. If you trade Rogers, who do you plan to replace Springs with?

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

"Hall should be a replacement for Springs."

Your thinking like a skins fan, not a free agent. If your employer told you Im going to groom you for a promotion in 2 years and another employer said I will give you the exact same promotion now, which would you choose? Most people would choose the promotion now.

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Your thinking like a skins fan, not a free agent. If your employer told you Im going to groom you for a promotion in 2 years and another employer said I will give you the exact same promotion now, which would you choose? Most people would choose the promotion now.

Posted by: stock_wiz456

----

Hall has already won the starting spot. He was starting here for the last 4 games of the season when Springs, Hall, and Rogers were all healthy. Hall isn't going to be groomed for anything. He's already got it.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:34 PM | Report abuse

Did you know that we have $87 in dead cap space because we cut Durant Brooks? What a waste. That's like 6 beers at Fed Ex.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

WHY are people against trading carlos rogers ???? if you dont trade him this year you will lose him the following year for nothing when he hits the free agent market. So why not trade him while we can still get something in return.

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 16, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

Did you know that we have $87 in dead cap space because we cut Durant Brooks? What a waste. That's like 6 beers at Fed Ex.

Posted by: psps23 |


It's actually closer to $87,000... so more like 10 beers...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I think there are 5 top notch Tackles in this draft.

Most sites have Ebon Britton rated 4th and Jason Smith rated 5th.

I would take either of them at 13, I think 4 T will be gone before we pick. I would take the one remaining and I think we will be fine.

None of the 5 is a reach at 13, this is all dependent upon what they do in FA's.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I think there are 5 top notch Tackles in this draft.

Most sites have Ebon Britton rated 4th and Jason Smith rated 5th.

I would take either of them at 13, I think 4 T will be gone before we pick. I would take the one remaining and I think we will be fine.

None of the 5 is a reach at 13, this is all dependent upon what they do in FA's.

Posted by: Flounder21 |

Lets wait and see what happens at the combine and pro day before making that kind of assessment... I agree in principle that OT is our area of most need, I would also hesitate to take the 5th best tackle at the 13th spot instead of the best at another position... of maybe a little less need (D-line or OLB -- if we release M. Washington)...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Black and whites will never agree on anything. Onlt thing is white women love black men. I don't have a long clue why !

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | January 16, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

"Stock, trust me, Springs is the most expensive to keep, and the cheapest to cut.

Letting Hall walk costs $0 and saves $0.

Cutting or trading Rogers will actually cost the team $1 million net.

Cutting or trading Springs saves $6 million. It's not even close."

Its not that simple, there is the cap and then there are real cash dollars. Hall and Los are going to want a new contract. If you give it to Hall, then you have to either give it to Los or trade him. Cutting Springs leaves $2M in dead cap space, this isnt good financial management of real dollars or Cap dollars.

Now you have two young very talented CBs which are going to be the corner stone of your D for a long time (very good thing). You also have a lot of money tied up in that one position which limits the money you can put in other positions D line o line etc. If Im the GM I take one pretty good young CB, one very good older CB for 2-3 more years, and one good young D lineman over two pretty good young CBS and big holes at d line and lb (kinda reminds me of the Broncos D). I can understand if you would put your team together the first way, but thats just how I would do it if it were me.

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

++

Black and whites will never agree on anything. Onlt thing is white women love black men. I don't have a long clue why !

Posted by: Daggarforracialjustice | January 16, 2009 12:55 PM ++

You got any gum?

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Lets wait and see what happens at the combine and pro day before making that kind of assessment... I agree in principle that OT is our area of most need, I would also hesitate to take the 5th best tackle at the 13th spot instead of the best at another position... of maybe a little less need (D-line or OLB -- if we release M. Washington)...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 12:53 PM |

The combine and pro day are BS I don't care what a guy can do in shorts, I want to see what he does in games.

All the guys I'm talking about have played high end college football.

The combine is a way for the NFL to make money thats all.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:00 PM | Report abuse

OK here we go again, the Skins do not value an asset they have already on thier team!

Why do the Skins want to trade Rogers? He's a proven player versus needing to get a replacement in a year or two. He lacks what skills? He drops interceptions, or he get's beat for TDs? I'll take the drop interceptions over getting beat for TD's anyday! the odd person out should be Smoot. I love the guy. he says the right things, but he ain't ballin' too good. Keep rogers! springs will be retained and miss 6-games next year once again. Rogers and hall could be a dynamic duo on the corners!

t

Posted by: oknow1 | January 16, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

"Hall has already won the starting spot. He was starting here for the last 4 games of the season when Springs, Hall, and Rogers were all healthy. Hall isn't going to be groomed for anything. He's already got it."

ok lets give one of the TWO starting positions to Hall. What do you do with Rogers? He has publicly declared he expects to be a starter. How do you resign him? How do you keep him from being a distraction to the team knowing he wont be happy with being the 3rd CB?

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

goose, its a deep draft at the top for the T position, not so much for DT/OLB, so the 13th pick in the first round taking a tackle would be a good pick, while taking a DT/OLB would be considered reaching.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

The bad thing about letting Carlos go, is losing yet another home grown Redskin. I was comparing our drafts to the Ravens since 2000 and we have actually picked well, but there was one glaring difference. Most of their picks were offensive and defensive lines. We drafted everything but.

Posted by: grittar1 | January 16, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

First and foremost...Trade Vinnie Cerrato...

Posted by: iamdawalrus | January 16, 2009 1:03 PM | Report abuse

stock-wiz,

You are definatley not a salary cap wiz, if you cut Springs who if he plays cost you 8mil against your cap, you save 6mil in real cap dollars. The 2mil is not dead cap money because the money is not from a deffered bonus.

Go back and fine JLC post about the cap if you don't believe us.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

flound, from NFL Draft Dog on smith:

Smith is arguably the most athletic lineman available in the 2009 NFL Draft and could have an immediate impact on a line next year. He could play LT or LG in a zone-blocking scheme possesses the speed to get out and move to the second level very effectively. His days running routes is evident in his ability to pull and trap and his awareness of where the ball is going on screens. His speed and long arms make him an explosive weapon in space against linebackers and safeties. Technique wise, he has made huge strides this year as well.

A good line coach will smooth out his game and should find a Pro Bowl caliber player when he’s done. Smith is a better run blocker right now than he is against the pass, but the talent is there for him to get much better with NFL caliber coaching.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Dudes..Vinny will screw up a second rounder if he recieved a second rounder for Los... Vinny hates 2nd rounders....point: traded 2nd for MBrunell//traded 2nd for Champ Baily//traded 2nd for Dancing Queen//Used three 2nd this year and got 3 duds...Do not let this guy have any 2nd rounders

Posted by: Tyler84101 | January 16, 2009 12:24 PM

Taylor Jacobs' mom totally disagrees with this statement.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Why do the Skins want to trade Rogers? He's a proven player versus needing to get a replacement in a year or two. He lacks what skills? He drops interceptions, or he get's beat for TDs? I'll take the drop interceptions over getting beat for TD's anyday! the odd person out should be Smoot. I love the guy. he says the right things, but he ain't ballin' too good. Keep rogers! springs will be retained and miss 6-games next year once again. Rogers and hall could be a dynamic duo on the corners!

t

Posted by: oknow1 | January 16, 2009 1:01 PM |

The Skins don't want to trade Rogers, JLC is specualating that the Skins might trade Rogers.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Keep rogers! springs will be retained and miss 6-games next year once again. Rogers and hall could be a dynamic duo on the corners! ((QUOTE)) Ok so you sign hall and Rogers and have half your cap space tied up in 2 corners. So my question is this after paying 2 corners and paying your quarterback WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM FOR THE REST OF THE TEAM ?? Ohhhh thats right we dont need help on the lines thats right lol

Posted by: rnorris6 | January 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

ok lets give one of the TWO starting positions to Hall. What do you do with Rogers? He has publicly declared he expects to be a starter. How do you resign him? How do you keep him from being a distraction to the team knowing he wont be happy with being the 3rd CB?

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 1:03 PM |

He starts and you cut Springs sounds pretty easy to me.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Report abuse

If Plaxico "shoot myself in the groin" is available - he's on Dano's lust-list, as is big-old-T.O., if JJ let's him walk.

If neither sexy receiver is available, heck, Vinny and Dano will send 2010's second & first rounder to whomever has Brandon Lloyd!

It's fun to watch the train-wreck that is the Danoskins F.O.!

Posted by: duru44 | January 16, 2009 1:10 PM | Report abuse

JT a marginal player? You can't be serious? Jason Taylor is a future Hall of Famer who couldn't contribute for much of last year because of a serious injury. Give him a full, healthy training camp and watch what happens.

Posted by: StevefromSacto | January 16, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

Trading CR is probably the dumbest thing I've heard all day. And I dont work with alot of smart people...
The people that we would recieve draft picks for are too important to this club to release (CC47, SM89, CP26).If you're going to trade away a solid def. player for a pick that may not work out you might as well blow the whole team up and start from scratch.
If we'd want to get some second round picks the best way would be to trade down in the 1st (if there isn't as stud that we want at #13) and maybe trade some later round picks to get higher picks in the earlier rounds.
But Trading Los for anything other than another starting player and a high pick wouldn't be worth it

Posted by: BostonWarPath | January 16, 2009 1:14 PM | Report abuse

"WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM FOR THE REST OF THE TEAM ?? Ohhhh thats right we dont need help on the lines thats right lol"

Exactly, its not fantasy football you cant keep everyone just because they are very good. You have to make the best TEAM possible

Posted by: stock_wiz456 | January 16, 2009 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,
Here is the thing, you may not like the combine or the pro-days or senior bowl... but they are all in fact part of the evaluation period of these college players... and this is how, in combination with game film, real GMs make their decisions...

I will not speculate whether or not you watched all these "5 top notch tackles" college games and can accurately assess their value against everyone of the guys that elected for the draft. Perhaps you like many other people have put together a board of all the many talented players to draft...

I just think its kind of funny to do that when the evaluation period isn't over... this is why I can promise you all of the Mocks are wrong at this point... Things will change... why stress about it in Jan...

I should reiterate that I'm not against drafting any of the guys you mention, or that the 5th tackle available isn't the appropriate choice at 13... my opinion right now, with the limited knowledge that all of us have is that I would hesitate to take the 5th best at any position until the 2nd round because there is value at a bunch of positions at 13...

We might also want to take into consideration that in Jan, tackle is probably our most important need, but come Nov and Dec it could very not be in our top 3 biggest needs. An overall (franchise) perspective is how we should evaluate the draft not a year-by-year perspective...

Here are some examples from the top of my head that we drafted for depth:
LaRon when we already had a beast in Taylor... it worked out for us...

The Giants have drafted D'lineman with Osi, Kiwanuka, and Tuck... it worked out for them this year...

Here is an example of when we drafted when other best positions were available:
Carlos Rogers was the 3rd corner taken, how many great lineman were drafted later 1st, how many great OLB were taken later in the 1st...

Again, it's impossible to say and project careers out at this point... lets evaluate the talent in the coming future... maybe we get your dream and draft one of the two tackles you mentioned earlier (or someone better) in the 3rd round... crazier things have happened...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

JT a marginal player? You can't be serious? Jason Taylor is a future Hall of Famer who couldn't contribute for much of last year because of a serious injury. Give him a full, healthy training camp and watch what happens.

Posted by: StevefromSacto | January 16, 2009 1:13 PM |

JT was a very marginal player for this team even when healthy, so NO THANKS to paying him 8mil for 3 sacks.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

flounder

True about the value of the combine.

Nobody in shorts plays like he does when pressure, speed, and violence become apart of the equation.

Plus: after playing at least 33/44 college football games, the front office people have more than enough video on any guy they want.

The combine is a 'scrip club' for football junkies.

And the Madden GM likes to watch and share drink with Pacman and Plax ridin' shotgun.

Moe says make it rain.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Starting defensive Backfield Skins 09'

CB#1 - D. Hall, Westbrook, Tryon
CB#2 - Rogers, Smoot
SS - Doughty, Horton
FS - Landry, Moore

Ah crap, I forgot about Torrence; we could totally sign him with the cap space saved by cutting Springs.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

DRAFT ALL GEORGIA PLAYERS

TRADE FOR FORMER GEORGIA PLAYERS

LET'S RIGHT THIS SHIP FOLKS

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

flound, i expect JT to stay with a reduced salary... say about 4 mil

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Report abuse

I am a diehard fan, and I have a tough time grasping the fact that the 'Skins do not have a GM. Vinny Cirrato has been Snyder's personnel puppet for far too long. What the team needs is simple: a Bobby Beathard-type of decision-maker...plane and simple. Danny-Boy needs a sound football mind, not a Vinny! After that, then the right pieces will fall into place. Until then, fans will be settling with mediocrity, which does not settle well with me!

Posted by: jabeck139 | January 16, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

How about this...

Our 1st and Carlos Rogers for both of the Lions' 2nd round picks and their 3rd (or our first for their second first and 1st second round pick)?

Posted by: TDawg1 | January 16, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Cut Jas. Taylor. That's enough cap room right there to sign Haynesworth, who will make every other D-lineman better. Unless Rinehart is ready, resign Kendall for one year. Sign a vet guard for depth

Consider trading 'Los, but try to get more than a 2. Maybe also get a swap of 1's or a swap of 3's that allows us to move up in those rounds. If not, let 'Los play this year.

Draft:

starting Right Tackle in Round 1,

best available defensive end with the next pick (2nd round if 'Los is traded, otherwise 3rd),

best available outside linebacker with next pick

Backup center with next (probably last) pick.

Posted by: LiberalMike | January 16, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

nagoose,

I agree it's early in the process, but alot of guys that were drafted because they were great in shorts sucked in the NFL.

I go by what experts that get paid to do this stuff say, are they always right no but they have alot more knowledge then any of us.

I was saying yesterday the I would be tempted to take Raji over the 5th best T.

Raji is a huge DT that this team could really use, but OT is more of a concern in my book.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:29 PM | Report abuse

flound, i expect JT to stay with a reduced salary... say about 4 mil

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 1:26 PM |

Zeebs,

Make it 2mil and then it will be worth it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Trading Rogers is the silliest thing I have heard being argued on RI since the last silly thing.

If we HAVE to get another pick, we can trade down and draft the best center prospect in a long time: Alex Mack.

1) Can play at center when Casey Rabach isn't the guy any more.
2) (bold assertion) Can start at guard for us right now (/bold assertion)
3) Gets us another pick.

By my count, that's three birds with one stone, which is pretty good.

P.S. Here is LA Times Sam Baker's mock top 10 draft. Only two OTs in it.

Here is Walter Football's revised 2009 draft. Top 4 OTs are gone in the first 8 rounds.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 16, 2009 1:33 PM | Report abuse

Flounder, there are lots of people who put up boards, the "experts" are the ones who talk to the GMs and put up whether guys are rising or falling... then generally people mimick what they say...

But the fact of the matter is the true people making the decisions will not make the decisions to April... and I feel like it's a little silly to get locked in on one guy (unless we have the 1st overall pick)... it's just going to break our hearts...

I'm going to root for whoever we pick regardless if I wished we'd drafted someone else...

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

lol @ anyone who wants to wait for the combine to make decisions on who to draft.

I'd rather watch them play football than run in shorts.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 1:34 PM | Report abuse

I know that Kendall is FA but what about Fabini's status?

I can see releasing Kendall and re-signing Fabini, as OLine insurance; he's younger and he's real good friends with CC47. Hopefully Rinehart is ready to play G if that happens.

The only trading that should happen is possibly trading out of #13.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Also, I agree there are guys who did not meet expectations due to the combine... there are guys who didn't perform in the regular season, performed well in the combine and were awesome in the NFL too... it should also be noted that there are a ton of guys who didn't go to the combine an had so-so college careers and were undrafted that had fairly good NFL careers...

I guess its really probably closer to 50-50... whether a guy is going to be a stud or not.

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Matthew,

Fabini is a FA as well.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:39 PM | Report abuse

Revised: 1) Can STAR at center when Casey Rabach isn't the guy any more.

(That's the point of picking a guy who is the best prospect at his position in a long time...sure it's at center and not O.T., but having a guy who might be an all-pro center for us for ten years is a darned good thing, in my book.)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | January 16, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Yeah floud, that would be a normal GM's response... but Blache already upped that ante, so our JM (for junior, like JV) will f it up

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

++I was saying yesterday the I would be tempted to take Raji over the 5th best T.

Raji is a huge DT that this team could really use, but OT is more of a concern in my book.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:29 PM++

DT becomes a huge hole if we release Griff. Maybe not as big as OLine but if Raji's there at 13 and Griff is not part of the future then pick DT.

But I really think that Vinny will try and trade out of the position if none of the top4 OLine are on the board.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 1:41 PM | Report abuse

Yeah floud, that would be a normal GM's response... but Blache already upped that ante, so our JM (for junior, like JV) will f it up

Posted by: Zeebs | January 16, 2009 1:40 PM |

That is definatley possible, I think Blache was just being nice didn't want to attack a future HOF. I think Blache's real feelings are he would not want JT back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:43 PM | Report abuse

matthew,

I would like to trade out as well but you need a partner, so well see maybe he can get a team to bite.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Everybody have a great weekend, thanks to working in Washington I get Tuesday off as well as Monday got to love it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

The Skins should let both Kendall and Fabini go. Jansen can assume the backup G/T role and either Rinehart or a free agent guard should win the LG position.

Posted by: siris | January 16, 2009 1:49 PM | Report abuse

flound, I got nothing off, so I hope you strain your shoulder playing Wii tennis, and you strike out repeatedly on 65 mph splitters...

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Take care Flounder, you are lucky to have Tuesday off... if you're from VA, like me... it's going to suck!!!

Posted by: nagoose | January 16, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

Personally I think you give JT another shot next year [not for $8 Million]. It seemed to me that after he finally got over his calf injury he regained some speed and was able to get into the backfield and make sacks happen. I wouldn't say he's washed-up or that he is another Redskins- Bruce Smith just yet.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

I'm sure the Skins will not release Griffin, unless there is a better (starting) free agent DT available. For instance, they could draft a rookie DT and still use Griffin as insurance for another year.

Posted by: siris | January 16, 2009 1:51 PM | Report abuse

flounder

Either the Boston College tackle, Raji, or the excellent linebacker #94 Herzlich (he's not coming out I believe--the guy will be a very high pick next year) would be good picks.

Boston College cranks out NFL quality players and doesn't get the notice other programs--like USC-- gets.

I like the idea of taking a rt at 13. But if Oher or Monroe are not availiable, then the attempted move to get into the second round should happen.

There, you take the dt and take the rt in the third round.

Hopefully, there's a trading partner who'll give up a lower round pick to move up.

If you can't move down, that leaves you to choose between Brown/FSU or Orakpo/Texas.

13 can be a lucky number for the Skins.

If they're not afraid.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

DeAngelo Hall IS NOT A BETTER CORNER THAN CARLOS ROGERS!

Hall in no way, shape, or form makes Rogers expendable. The only reason Hall even makes Springs expendable is due to Spring's age and Salary. Dropped INTs or not, Rogers rarely got beat. Hall got beat more times in the Eagles game than Rogers got beat all season. Every dropped INT is a pass someone else's reciever didn't catch.

Also, Hall is a ZONE COVER corner, and a cover 2 corner, not a press man corner with 1 Deep safety.

Us trading Rogers away and keeping Hall in his place would be a DOWNGRADE.

Give credit where credit is due.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 16, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

We should franchise Carlos Rogers and have him compete at center/guard.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | January 16, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

++Us trading Rogers away and keeping Hall in his place would be a DOWNGRADE.

Give credit where credit is due.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 16, 2009 1:53 PM++

Agreed.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

We should franchise Carlos Rogers and have him compete at center/guard.

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | January 16, 2009 1:54 PM

... or compete with Lorenzo Alexander at any of the other twenty positions where Lozo dominates.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 2:01 PM | Report abuse

I think they should target some value FA that are still kinda young like vernon carey or jason brown for the OL, and guys like dansby, crowder, or canty for the D.....If we could get just one of those guys for the right price i would be happy instead of going after some of those big fish(peppers, gross)

Posted by: hillb03 | January 16, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of HOF

If the Cardinals get in the Supa Bowl in the same year a black man becomes president of the US, will Kurt Warner get serious HOF consideration?

He won't have the passing numbers or touchdowns, but the ring with the Rams, the comeback from 'bagging groceries to NFL Europe to the bench to the Cards' is very sexy to any HOF voter.

Will Kurt Warner be a Hall of Famer?

Moe says, Yes he can.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

"If the Cardinals get in the Supa Bowl in the same year a black man becomes president of the US, will Kurt Warner get serious HOF consideration"

I'm sorry, what do these 2 things have to do with one another??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 2:11 PM | Report abuse

""If the Cardinals get in the Supa Bowl in the same year a black man becomes president of the US, will Kurt Warner get serious HOF consideration"

I'm sorry, what do these 2 things have to do with one another??

Posted by: BeantownGreg "

both are people

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

""If the Cardinals get in the Supa Bowl in the same year a black man becomes president of the US, will Kurt Warner get serious HOF consideration"

I'm sorry, what do these 2 things have to do with one another??

Posted by: BeantownGreg "

both are people

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009 2:13 PM

I believe that one is also a species of bird.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Both stand as examples of what was once thought to never happen.

One did.

The other might.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Also, even though the Skins beat the Eagles twice as many times as they beat the Cards this season, the Eagles will beat the Cards. When death on the line, never bet against a Sicilian ... or the NFC East.

Posted by: dcsween | January 16, 2009 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Again: Is Kurt Warner HOF material?

He has about four years left on that arm and in that offense with Boldin/Fitzgerald catching the rock, he might get very good numbers.

Good numbers plus getting in the Super Bowl should get him in.

If Mike Irvin can get in before Art Monk, Warner is worth the same consideration.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

"Also, Hall is a ZONE COVER corner, and a cover 2 corner, not a press man corner with 1 Deep safety.

Us trading Rogers away and keeping Hall in his place would be a DOWNGRADE."

I tend to believe they need BOTH. Springs can no longer last through 16 games. I think he definitely will be back. IN the current scheme they would use him as a one-and-one shutdown corner. With Rogers you can bring 3 in at once on any given down.

If they trade Rogers you have to assume they will have to replace him through the draft. Given Spring's age you would have to assume 2 picks would be used for this purpose even if they sign Hall.

Signing Hall, bargaining with Taylor to come back next year at a reduced cost perhaps would be their big "splash" in the FA market.

If they trade Rogers I would almost have to assume that they go for a corner in 1st round. And two guys who can play tackle and guard in the 2nd and 3rd. Or a guy who plays tackle, guard and center in the 3rd. Clearly Geisinger just will not do given Suggs characterization of the guy. Bostic looked like that ... in fact Gibbs/Bugel tried to replace him with the more athletic Grimm for that reason. Yet in the end he won out at center.

I rather doubt that Mr. Suggs would ever make such statements about the 6'0+ Bostic. Ever.

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Updates from EAST-WEST Shrine Practices from ESPN:

OG Louis Vasquez, Texas Tech: When you talk about line play in coach Mike Leach's Texas Tech offense, people think of wide splits and pass protection. But Vasquez is not a finesse player by any stretch of the imagination. He proved to scouts that he can fire off the ball from a three-point stance (which he didn't do much in Tech's pass- and draw-happy offense) and dominate tackles in the power running game. Picking one lineman from this year's group was tough. Guards Ray Feinga (BYU), Seth Olsen (Iowa) and Jaimie Thomas (Maryland), centers Cecil Newton (Tennessee State) and Edwin Williams (Maryland), and tackles Ramon Foster (Tennessee), Jamon Meredith (South Carolina) and Sebastian Vollmer (Houston) all helped themselves this week.

DE/DT Jarron Gilbert, San Jose State: It's fair to say Gilbert was the most impressive athlete on the field this week. His measurements were ridiculous (6-5, 287 pounds, 35 5/8-inch arms, 10 1/4-inch hands), but on the field he looked really fluid and played strong. He's not going to be a run-stuffer inside, but his length and size could be a great fit for 3-4 teams looking for a starting defensive end in the third round -- like 2008 East-West participant and current Miami Dolphin Kendall Langford.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"Not a fan of trading Carlos, I dont see the problem with spending the money to lock down Hall and Rogers. We have already invested a lot of time in carlos and he is starting to show returns. Hall was a great pick up but what does it do if we only have him for half a season. You lock them both down you get a playmaker on one side and a sure tackler and run defense help on the other side."

i agree with stu27... keep rogers and hall. trade the 1st round pick for more picks!!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | January 16, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

"Again: Is Kurt Warner HOF material?"


Maybe, even Billy Kilmer was a 1st rounder I think. This guy came from bagging groceries at the local equivalent of the Safeway or Giant.

Given his success ... I guess he is kind of like Johnny U. in that respect. Not at the same level but certainly as a "Horatio Alger", zero to super hero more than once you have to give the guy serious consideration perhaps?

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

scween

I'm taking iggles v. stillers

The stillers v. ravens really should be the Super Bowl, what with the hitting and bad blood between the teams.

All PA Supa Bowl?

Moe is from Amish Country...Harrisburg/Chambersburg

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

+++Moe--like Thoreau--believes in 'simplify, simplify, simplify'

Keeping things simple should keep the Skins from looking stupid.

Posted by: MistaMoe++++


SSSSsssshhhhh. If Vinny reads this he'll trade another second rounder for this Thoreau guy,.

Posted by: TheCork | January 16, 2009 2:30 PM | Report abuse

"Not a fan of trading Carlos, I dont see the problem with spending the money to lock down Hall and Rogers. "

I'm not a fan of trading Rogers. They have also already been burned enough losing good young players to other teams.

If that were to happen it should only happen if somehow they were able to pick up 2 firsts instead of the second perhaps by trading down in the order. Then they might be able to select a tackle and a CB.

I just can't seem them going with Smoot. That looks more and more like a huge mistake and a huge waste of salary cap.

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

"I'm taking iggles v. stillers"

The battle for Pennsylvania ... I'm sure they'd love that up there.

I think it will be Ravens vs. the Eagles. Ballimer versus Philly. Given the close proximity of the fan bases that might be interesting ...

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

"Moe is from Amish Country...Harrisburg/Chambersburg"

Just over the Mason Dixon line eh? Where the battle of Gettysburg kind of started. Southerners trying to buy Yankee shoes in Chambersburg. :)

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:37 PM | Report abuse

jimmy

Trading Hall means signing him 1st.

Why sign and trade a player you could use?

This is not an NBA 'sign 'n trade' situation where you hope to dump salary in order to keep under the cap.

Sign Hall and keep him and Rogers.

Posted by: MistaMoe | January 16, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"I like the idea of taking a rt at 13. But if Oher or Monroe are not availiable, then the attempted move to get into the second round should happen."

Eben Britton will be there and you have to assume they take him unless someone better is available.

Unless a trade occurs where they pick up an extra first ... and that means Rogers ... and that means a corner not a linebacker.

They just don't have the picks this year.
They are going to have to muddle through another year with what they have ...

they may have to resort to converting the small and fast DE's to LB's. I should think they would want to try this as they have a surplus of those.

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like something most of the women I watch football with say. They seem to like legs and butts. Not the score.

"I'd rather watch them play football than run in shorts.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | January 16, 2009"

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

"Stock, trust me, Springs is the most expensive to keep, and the cheapest to cut."

He is still your one and only shutdown corner. You keep him before any other potential salary cap casualty and that includes Griffin and Washington. One can be certain that is what they will do.

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

"That is definatley possible, I think Blache was just being nice didn't want to attack a future HOF. I think Blache's real feelings are he would not want JT back.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009"

I'm not convinced. He basically left Erasmus James and never even attempted to use him. Whereas as soon as Taylor felt reasonably healthy after that bizarre injury he was back in the lineup.

My take on this is unlike Wilson and Jackson this guy can stop the run. He may not be as effective as Evans, a Philips. But I think it means he puts out 100% plus.

I believe that Blache was completely serious.

Zorn is the one trying to be politically correct. Part of being an HC. Doesn't always succeed. I'm not sure that Blache even tries.

Look what Blache and Gray did to Rogers and Smoot?

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Bubba Tyler has just retired.

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"Also, Hall is a ZONE COVER corner, and a cover 2 corner, not a press man corner with 1 Deep safety.

Us trading Rogers away and keeping Hall in his place would be a DOWNGRADE."

I tend to believe they need BOTH. Springs can no longer last through 16 games. I think he definitely will be back. IN the current scheme they would use him as a one-and-one shutdown corner. With Rogers you can bring 3 in at once on any given down.

...

Posted by: periculum | January 16, 2009 2:24 PM

I agree completely that they need Both Hall and Rogers. I, however, feel they should cut Springs (despite his talent, they guy is injury prone and has no heart)to open up cap space. I can live with Smoot as a #3 until the skins can draft a good nickel/slot capable corner.

I also believe we bring back JT if he will renegotiate to a lower salary, I liked what I saw once he was healthy.

I have mixed feelings on Griff due to his age and cap figure...but the guy plays through pain, doesn't miss many games, is great in the lockeroom (doesn't complain about sharing playing time with the younger guys), and he plays hard and well.

I feel O-Line, DT, and linebackers are our most critical needs.

Posted by: ecale25 | January 16, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

beep, beep

Posted by: BeantownGreg | January 16, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"If the Cardinals get in the Supa Bowl in the same year a black man becomes president of the US, will Kurt Warner get serious HOF consideration"

No, but we will all wake up from what for some was the greatest dream ever and others their worst nightmare.

Posted by: learnedhand1 | January 16, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Comp Picks will be scare for the Skins this year. The debate is over B.Lloyd, Frost & Brunell and whether or not they will warrant a comp pick for the Skins. Picking Jason Taylor will probably cancel out of the picks, assuming we get one or two for those players, and hopefully we'll end up with at least one comp pick.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/1/15/724505/compensatory-draft-pick-de

Posted by: matthewvickers | January 16, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

ok lets give one of the TWO starting positions to Hall. What do you do with Rogers? He has publicly declared he expects to be a starter. How do you resign him? How do you keep him from being a distraction to the team knowing he wont be happy with being the 3rd CB?

Posted by: stock_wiz456

-----

(1) Rogers is under contract for another year, and will be a restricted FA the year after that. He's still here for 2 years.

(2) If it comes down to it, and you have to choose one, it's simple; cut Springs.

Voila. 2 starting spots for Rogers and Hall, and you have $6 million in cap space to re-sign one or the other.

It's really not that complicated.

Posted by: psps23 | January 16, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

Everybody have a great weekend, thanks to working in Washington I get Tuesday off as well as Monday got to love it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | January 16, 2009 1:48 PM | Report abuse

Me too. On Tuesday I'll be nesteled quite comfortably on my couch. Thank you very much!

Posted by: Devo2 | January 16, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

The only guys of true trade value are #89 and #47.

If you could get a second round and another middle round pick this year out of moving either one of them, would you do it?

I didn't think so.

Posted by: MistaMoe
All of this talk about trading Rogers makes me scratch my head. If we trade him and use the (hopeful) number 2 pick to fill another position, it leaves us with one full time starting caliber CB, period. Springs, as good as he is when he plays, is a luxury role player because of his age and consistent missed games to injury. Creating holes at positions by trading good starters in their primes for draft picks to fill other holes gives you no net gain as a team.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 16, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

"I don't think they will be setting spending records and I would think the Jason Taylor experience would have taught them not to deal multiple picks for older, marginal players."

This statement is very funny from JLC...who praised the Redskins bigtime for getting Taylor...now he does not?

Forst of all Taylor was the best avaiable in a EMERGENCY SITUATION when we lost Daniels on the FIRST DAY OF CAMP....What did you expect them to do? wait and let others trade for him? Or not do anything at all?

I agreed the move then and I still agree...

In fact ...all fairness to Taylor...He had some injuries and his calf injury was pretty bad...So I credit him for even trying to play through that.

He also stated he was not worth his pay this season....This tells me he wants to try and redeem himself and not go out like that.....If indeed he will take a pay cut....I welcome him back...who knows what might happen with a HEALTHY Taylor.

Posted by: leevi98 | January 16, 2009 6:55 PM | Report abuse

The only guys of true trade value are #89 and #47.

If you could get a second round and another middle round pick this year out of moving either one of them, would you do it?

I didn't think so.

Posted by: MistaMoe
Cooley, a resounding NO. He is a workhorse allpro just beginning his prime, with no serious injury or character issues. On the surface, Moss would be a "maybe" because he IS 30. However, he still plays at an allpro level, has no serious injury history, and is the closest thing we have to a number one receiver until one or both of the two number 2's we drafted last year step up. So I say Moss, also is a clear NO, though not as resounding as Cooley.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 16, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

Let's get real here. You seriously think Carlos Rodgers will garner a second round pick?? Maybe a 4th or 5th if we're lucky. Unlike the Redskins, other teams in the NFL put real value on their picks.

Posted by: bones21 | January 16, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

In Rogers' case, he has lived up to his method of acquirement"

psp, I think he's had a couple of ok/average years, and then this past season played very good at times. In my opinion, he's had more seasons in which he's not lived up to his draft position, than one's where he has.

Posted by: BeantownGreg

Thats kind of the way it happens for most NFL players; they have different learning curves, but most use their first couple of years to get better until they start to hit their prime, where a team really starts to get value from their investment. To jettison Rogers right when we're starting to get first round productivity reminds me of Antonio Pierce, though we got nothing in return for him. I see no upside to trading Rogers. Sign him and Hall to long term contracts, and forget about CB for the next 5 years.

Posted by: kenboy1 | January 16, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Guys.... Let us not forget that a massive, soul-destroying DT makes every secondary look good!

Springs will not be coming back unless he drops his salary considerably; Hall and Smoot can cover 99% of the 2 and 3 receivers in this league like a glove!

Carlos,,,, Carlos.... Carlos.... We are not going to trade away our best DB are we???

Our D will get burned by our lack of an effective DT and the lack of a linebacker that can cover a top RB...

We have to get a cover LB and a soul-sapping DT !!!!!!

Posted by: oldnova | January 17, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

trade slippery fingers rogers....man has dropped many game changing INT's...probably cost us playoffs 2 of last 4 years...no way we get a #2 for him...unless he was being traded to Skins..then we give a #2 and #2 next yr, then the bum does nothing....stop trading draft picks for bums....J Taylor, B Lloyd, that bum running back from Atlanta that I can't even remember, Archuleta, etc...it's killing the franchise...do like Pittsburgh...make good use of draft and make playoffs every year...Snyder, use a NFL talent expert, not your high school football education

Posted by: prkviewtennis1 | January 18, 2009 8:57 AM | Report abuse

We need a dominant defensive lineman, maybe an Albert Haynesworth or Julius Peppers, to disrupt and put pressure on opposing quaterbacks. Otherwise, we'll relive the 2008 season!

Posted by: skinsfan7 | January 18, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Anybody noticed that off-season trades are few and far betwee, almost a thing of the past? Free agency has a lot to do with that, of course. And the only teams eager to trade draft choices are 1) squads that figure they don't really need that much help, or 2) teams faced with a training camp injury, like the Skins with Jason Taylor.

Vinny, on the other hand, is looking for more choices. What does that tell you about his estimate of the team?

On Sanchez: I'm guessing Carroll was watching next year's run at a national title go out the window. Meaning Mustain isn't ready yet. That's why he trashed Sanchez' prospects. Cost Sanchez some large bucks, is my guess. But other coaches will throw that in Carroll's face when they're up for the same recruit -- look at the USC coach, you can't trust him.

Is Sanchez ready? Sure, for maybe a late first round grade. But who out there looks ready to play in the NFL? Certainly not Stafford, he of the golden arm and wooden cranium. Bradford would have been better, but he's no Matt Ryan. Of course one of the QBs could get lucky, a la Joe Flacco, and wind up on a team that could carry him. But another Ryan? I don't see him.

So one of these QBs will probably go way higher than he should. But that's what usually happens in the draft. The real star of the future may be lurking in the middle rounds somewhere.

Posted by: Samson151 | January 18, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

on carlos rogers. i get that our secondary is our strength right now, and we need to load up on lineman but trading Carlos Rogers for a second round pick is a bad idea, because Vinny can't draft. If we had a Pioli, or even guys available like Randy Mueller or Rich McKay i would be for it assuming we sign DeAngelo. Until we get someone proven that can draft why would trade a proven player that can shut down top receivers for players that are unproven in the NFL. Instead get Carlos into camp early and put him with the wide receivers so he can learn how to catch.


Posted by: Williewill1 | January 18, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Sign DeAngelo Hall, Trade Carlos Rogers for a 2nd plus whatever we can get. IF everyone believes in Fred "the Sandman" Davis, trade Cooley for a 1st or a second plus a sweetener pick.

Make a deal w/ Philly for Lito Sheppard. Re-sign Springs to a lower priced more guaranteed money deal to use as a Safety and b/u CB for emergencies.

Bring in a veteran F/A DE or DT to shore up what we have, and re-work or cut aging D-line vets. Also look into a mid grade Vet F/A WR.

Re-sign safety Green. That gives Hall, Sheppard, Smoot, Springs and whomever at CB. Trade down from our 1st round pick to get a 2nd round pick and another sweetener pick.

Then draft to fill D-line and O-line...

Posted by: ThinkingMan | January 18, 2009 7:26 PM | Report abuse

The Buck begins with getting rid of Vinny Cerrato. Until that happens, trading Rogers or not won't make any difference. Vinny simply does not have the ability to make solid decision regarding acquisition of team player needs. Vinny is just totally useless when it comes to assessing and obtaining adequate football talent at any level. I don't know why Mr. Snyder can't see that.

Posted by: csgraha | January 18, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

trade smoot dog, cut Jansen, cut or trade washington, cut taylor. Draft an Offensive Tackle, Guards, Center, DT, LB. Please don't repeat the Mark Carrier, Bruce Smith, Deion, Jason Taylor mistakes.

Posted by: jckavanagh | January 19, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

How do you trade Carlos Rogers unless you have DeAngelo Hall locked in? Even then, I think I would rather hang onto Rogers and let oft-injured Springs go his own way. Any plan to have Springs move to safety should be abandoned. If he cannot be healthy at corner, how is he going to stay healthy at the much more physical safety position? Frankly, tinkering with the secondary should not be a primary consideration. The weakness has been in the pass rush. They need to find some big guys who can collapse the pocket and occupy multiple blockers. Defensive focus in the draft should be defensive line. They should pick up some value at linebacker in free agency. On the offensive side of the ball, I think signing some bargain OL's is a good plan, and it is time to think about drafting a running back, preferably a short yardage bull who can provide a legitimate change of pace to Portis.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | January 19, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Here is a free agent strategy - sign the young backup of a longtime star player if the young backup has been around for a couple years. Seems like when a team has a star itcan stockpile a reserve who might me a reasonable player to fill a slot on another time. Unscientific thought.

Posted by: rsmskc | January 19, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Alot of you may not agree with me but i think the skins should trade Cooley in order to get some value of sorts, the one rookie TE i believe will turn out to be a good player, in which for cooley you may be able to get younger and may be able to get a draft pick or some sort of value for him

Posted by: luva2k | January 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

A second round pick ??? for Carlos Rogers
maybe a 5th if lucky! for a player who has never learned to tackle(yes Carlos, sometimes you have to use your hands)He has dropped more easily catchable balls than anyone in football---even those thrown directly to him),several balls have bounced off his back or helmet as he is always chasing behind the receiver,never sees the ball coming ....just chasing the receiver. 6 interceptions in four years---WOW!! I 'm sure he is in great demand And Smoot, what is he worth? I know, he is worth what it cost us to get him back from Minnesota --which was as I recall "0"----Nada! We call him toast as Smoot is always getting burnt! Just get rid of him.

Posted by: passonfirstdown | January 19, 2009 1:09 PM | Report abuse

Because of incompetency we need a new GM, head coach, and QB. Because of age we need 5 o-linemen, 2 d-lineman, 2 linebackers, and a CB. Snyder and the Post need to wake up, this organization is not functional and because of this the objective of 17 more years without a Super Bowl appears likely.

Posted by: edeshields | January 19, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Can anyone get it right in the front office? For crying out loud! The Arizona Cardinals are going to the Super Bowl, the did it without a big splash in free agency. Just prudent free agents and the draft. Snyder needs a real football mind (GM). They should start rebuilding inside out on both sides of the ball (Offense: C, OG,OT, WR, RB, & TE...Defense: NG, DT, DE, LB, CB, & S). Keep Rodgers (at least he tackles), sign and trade DeAngelo (He thinks He's better than He is but if we can find a sucker..well) and that goes for Fred Smoot too. We need a dominating linebacker who can stay on the field(move Jason Taylor to LB)..and for crying out loud draft receivers who can help Santana...but start with the O-line..Jason barely looked average when they were injured or their aged showed in the 2nd part of the season..Keep him upright and He'll make plays.

Posted by: anointedebony | January 19, 2009 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Hey guys (and ladies if any)..I'm here in the Raleigh/Charlotte area and Julius Peppers wants out, now I would try to sign him or Haynesworth..I know this is old but I keep thinking Sean would have made a difference everytime I see Ed Reed, Sean Dawkins or Palumou...Horton is coming but it's going to take time for him and Landry to jell and they will never be what Landry and Sean could've been.

Posted by: anointedebony | January 19, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT! I know it isn't pretty or exciting to draft lineman, but that is what the Skins need. Sucks to think the Skins need to go into the proverbial "rebuilding" mode after having about a decade of disappointing seasons. That's what happens when you have a dickless moron owner and his incompetent lacky running the show. I, as well as all of you, know we need a lot of players. Moss may make the occassional great play but he's undersized and the early celebration after scoring a TD while down 17-0 in the loss to the Bengals, to me, was the last straw. Seriously, who does that? He should not be a #1 WR. And Randel El? Well, his best days, which were as a punt returner, were left in Pittsburgh. We all know he is a #4 WR at best. Personally, I say we try to shop Moss and Randel El for a #1 WR. Then let Devin Thomas, who showed fire and constantly fought for YAC all year, audition for the #2 while Malcolm Kelly, hopefully, can grow a heart in the offseason and play the 3. As far as draft picks, they ALL need to be spent on either offensive tackles (Jansen is done and Samuels ain't far behind) or D-Lineman. As far as the whole argument about trading Rogers (Carlos) depends on what we could get for him. Now, we're overstaffed at that position. We can still milk a year to two out of Springs. Deangelo Hall, when happy (which he seems to be) is a #1 shutdown corner and anyone who doesn't agree doesn't know much football. Then Smoot, while he angers me almost every week, is competent enough to play the slot. Hell, I still question whether Campbell is a franchise QB (mentally). But I think he deserves a couple years of grooming under Zorn to see what he can really do with some protection and weapons.

Posted by: storers1 | January 19, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm… I would say first, since we have J. Taylor, lets stand him up, remember he came into the league as a LB, so let see if he can give us a little value as a “speed rusher” on passing downs. Second, Carlos is finally starting to get it, so for that I say keep him, because we are so thin and old at DB and it don’t look any better moving forward, let Smoot go, I doubt if anyone will give a 3 or 4 for him. I think Albert Hanesworth would be an awesome pickup for this D-line. I say lets see what kind of trade value that we can get for C. Samuels and J. Jansen… lets face it, now is the time to get younger. And while we’re at it A.R.E. can go too.

Posted by: oda155 | January 19, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

...also, J. Peppers is available!

Posted by: oda155 | January 19, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

I dont think we have the numbers to make a trade of rogers. I think we need to dump cap however possible and sign another true pass rusher for the d line as that is our defenses weakness. we dont get consistant pressure from the front 4 and no secondary can cover forever. when we blitz to get the pressure we are then exposed. we could also use some help at linebacker and need to look at the qb posistion hard as its been consistant for several years now that we cant score and it definitely cost us a shot at the playoffs not the defense.

Posted by: redskins-4481 | January 19, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse


With Springs aging and talking about moving to the safety position anyway, that leaves us Rogers, Smoot & Hall. Arguably the best group of corners in the league assembled on 1 team and the main reason our defense was successful this year with very little pass rush. It makes NO sense to even mess with one of our true strengths, let alone let them get away for nothing like unproven draft picks. The list of proven guys that the Skins have let go over the years for draft picks and trades that haven't panned out is staggering. Time to build on what we've got like all the other good teams do and stop the madness.

Posted by: EFitz1000aolcom | January 19, 2009 11:55 PM | Report abuse

I've never been fond of trading players we drafted...Rogers seems to be developing and is much younger than Springs and Smoot. Hall, when with the Falcons was awesome and had some speed. Regardless on who they keep, they have to keep DBs who can confront the bigger WRs in the division...TO, Plax, Philly receivers, etc...right now that would be Rogers and Springs (when healthy).

While I like Hall, there has to be a reason why the Raiders released him (system, attitude, or maybe it was just the Raiders).

A Rogers and Hall combo would be good for quite a few years to come with either Smoot or Springs as the 3rd DB.

This is where Leigh Torrance would have fit in perfectly...What the heck was the Skins thinking to let this guy go and keep Tyron?

Posted by: impact32 | January 20, 2009 2:35 AM | Report abuse

The needs are simple - Because of incompetency the Redskins need a new GM, head coach, and QB. Because of age they need 5 o-linemen, 2 d-lineman, 2 linebackers, and a CB.
Snyder and the Post need to wake up; this organization is not functional and because of this 17 more years without an appearance in a Super Bowl is a distinct possibility.

Posted by: edeshields | January 20, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Keep Carlos. Are you kidding me he's the best out there. Ok my bad Horton now that was a pick. I say sign a solid DL free agent. And draft someone to protect Campbell and Portis. Portis is a stud and at this rate he will become a broken down pud. Same goes for Campbell. I was Pissed when we picked Kelly, you don't pick someone who's already banged up in college. And where's Devin Thomas? Must be with Jimmy Hoffa.

Posted by: BingCreole | January 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

If Carlos Rogers needs to go to get us the linemen that we need it is worth it. Hall, Springs, Smoot, Horton, Landry. Name another secondary with this much speed and talent. Carlos Rogers is just an extra bonus but he is not needed as much as the linemen are.

Posted by: biggskins | January 20, 2009 4:43 PM | Report abuse

The skins need an offensive line and a defensive line. Injuries have made it difficult to get the chemistry needed for a great o-line but they still need one or two solid linemen to give Jason enough time to show what he can do. Andre Carter, Jason Taylor, and Philip Daniels are great ends but they cant stop the run. You wonder why Dallas, Baltimore, and Cincinnati were able to run the clock out with power running. There was no push or penetration in those situations which allowed Barber and Mclain to run over us. the ends arent the problem, the defensive tackles are.
If Carlos Rogers needs to go to get us the linemen that we need it is worth it. Hall, Springs, Smoot, Horton, Landry. Name another secondary with this much speed and talent. Carlos Rogers is just an extra bonus but he is not needed as much as the linemen are.

Posted by: biggskins | January 20, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Is trading Vinny Cerato for a used football an option?

Posted by: hailredskins80 | January 20, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Why is anyone worried about the draft. I'm sure they will go after more receivers and another punter. This team is a joke. What good did 10 picks do the team last year. Danny boy will do his same old moves by signing more has beens to try and sell his marketing BS. Redskins fans stop playing his game and stay home.

Posted by: mike1ad | January 20, 2009 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Do some more crazy things trade Rogers for T.O.or sign packman. If you got it spent it fan will still come and hpe

Posted by: tlj-dc | January 22, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Who in the organization knows talent, that is the problem. Sign me and pay me to be hurt.

Posted by: tlj-dc | January 22, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

I think it's time to start over! Sell off all the goods and get draft pics. But first we need a true GM not fly by the seat of your pants decision making. We need new Mgmt blood! The bone heads making decisions really are bad and don't even know it!

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | January 22, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

Vinny Cerrato has been on the sportstalk 980 show while the callers would express the same concerns as most of us. He is well aware of what the fans want and im sure he will be affected by that come this year. The skins were overated after our 6-2 start and they got ahead of themselves. They will learn the new system and perfect it soon enough. If this happens and we still dont win some playoff games, then panic. Til then dont act like the world is going to end.

Posted by: biggskins | January 22, 2009 8:41 PM | Report abuse

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