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WR Thomas Looks to Turn It Around

Following disappointing rookie campaigns for wide receivers Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas, two of the Redskins three second-round selections last year, there were questions as to whether Washington would pursue a veteran option that could provide production in the No. 2 or No. 3 receiver spot -- or whether the Redskins would be enticed by some of the big name pass catchers available on the trade or free agent market.

Instead, Washington chose to stay put at the position. At the NFL league meetings this week, Coach Jim Zorn said the team was hoping for more contribution from the two second-year receivers, as well as tight end Fred Davis -- the team's other second-round pick last year.

Thomas, a 6-foot-2, 220-pound burner with potential to stretch the field, had the most production of any of the three rookie pass catchers with 15 receptions for 120 yards -- Kelly and Davis finished with three catches each -- and also rushed three times for 53 yards and one touchdown.

But the former Michigan State standout's work ethic was questioned at times last season, and his failure to show up for the start of offseason workouts last week raised another red flag.

Thomas had been working out at Redskins Park prior to the official start of offseason workouts, according to team officials, and notified the team he would miss the start last week.

According to Thomas, he missed the first days of workouts for personal reasons and returned to Redskins Park late last week.

On Thursday at Redskins Park, Thomas said he understood what was expected of him going into his second year.

"It wasn't a [rookie] year I wanted, obviously, let alone what the whole team wanted," Thomas said. "But it's time for me to step up and do what I've got to do. So I'm working hard, getting ready for this offseason. Whether they would have brought some wide receivers in or not, I still have to bust my tail. It's nothing different."

Thomas called his rookie season "a learning experience," and expressed optimism at the opportunity to work with quarterback Jason Campbell this spring.

"That's one of the most vital things is to have that bond with the quarterback before the season starts," Thomas said. "Knowing where you're going to be at, knowing how he releases the ball and knowing what to expect. So it's great for us to push through these workouts together, choose our own times to go out there and throw and catch together and it's what we need. It's an early bond we can start before the season starts."

By Paul Tenorio  |  March 26, 2009; 2:52 PM ET
 
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Next: Position Battle: Left DE

Comments

FAUST

Posted by: HenryHog | March 26, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Well that's nice.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Which sports editor? Who wrote the piece? Cindy?

Mebbe they do read this blog ... they fear the Priest! He might channel someone they would never expect!

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Hey 4th the link page says it can not be find

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 2:29 PM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/03/4thFloor_jukes_jm220

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Lets hope he does...

Posted by: hbu_dog | March 26, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

alex,

Elway's son hasnt even hit the field yet, and is not guaranteed to start in this fall.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

His high-school stuff looks intriguing though. I am gonna bet he is not gonna live up to what his dad did but I would say check on him every off season just like you would any other son of a great.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Good to see the young guy learned from last year and ready to what needs to be done to step up this year.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

I say, you keep Jason Campbell, and get the roster stabilized around a QB who is at least solid and consistent, maybe he takes you to the next level, but once you know you are at a point where you have a roster of 53 good blue collar types you can make a decision on a new QB or whatever.

JC is steady, use it to the advantage of the team and build the rest of the roster up before you go blowing the wad looking for a manning.

Posted by: alex35332 | March 26, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

alex, very solid post and very sound point that I would totally agree with if I had any faith in our FO to build that solid 52 man roster around JC. That's kinda my point/problem. They been trying for 10 years now to find a legit #1 WR or even a legit receiving core period, they've allowed both lines to deteriorate and solved that with a $100 million man and resigning a guy they let go in the first place, they spent big money on a big risk in Hall, they have multiple needs still on the line, DE, and LB and all of that ignores the fact that our same offensive issues will still exist in a thin/weak receiving unit, a one trick pony RB who's biggest compliments at this point are about his blocking and with little changeup/talent behind him and not enough resources to fix those problems. Plus next year the same problems will remain, Rabach, Thomas, 2 DEs, and possibly Fletcher/McIntosh, corner as Smoot probably is done at his price tag, RB same issues with CP a year older, Moss and ARE still small, still hammy issues, and a year older and around and around we go, so IMHO we are several years from building a sound team, we are stuck in our constantly reload instead of ever allowing it to rebuild, so it makes no sense to muddle on with a mediocre QB and not take a shot at making a big move to get "the guy" since that's what we do everywhere else anyway why should QB be different?

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Typical offseason B.S-talk from guys who know that they sucked...This kid is a bum. The offense will suck again...why? because it is a year OLDER, with the same deficiencies !

Posted by: po403 | March 26, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

dcsween I may need to pull the hammer out of 4th for that one. lol

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Typical offseason B.S-talk from guys who know that they sucked...This kid is a bum. The offense will suck again...why? because it is a year OLDER, with the same deficiencies !

Posted by: po403

How do you know he is a bum after one year? I believe some of you just like to be negative and put others down in order to make yourselves feel better which is very sad. If the kid doesn't show improvement this year then you can start questioning him.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

4th your link doesn't work.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

'....there were questions as to whether Washington would pursue a veteran option that could provide production in the No. 2 or No. 3 receiver spot....'

The skins should bring in Torrie Holt for every reason listed here by La Canfora.

Until the team senses Thomas/Kelly have a grip on what it takes to be an NFL wideout, a vet like Holt could use his skill in the place of speed to make the catches and moves that take pressure and coverage of Moss/Cooley.

Holt caught 64 balls to ARE's 51 (and rememba: Holt is supposed to be in decline, Raandle El not)--and again this suggests there is even an upgrade using with using him as a number 3 receiver in El's place.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 26, 2009 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Well, it's BEEN time to show up. Don't tell me, show me.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

4th your link doesn't work.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:16 PM

Don't tell JM220 that. He has already threatened me with the hammers. And I know they are hungry to smack somebody in the back of the head.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

I've never heard it called that before, but i'm sure he has been told it doesn't work before now...

Sorry it was way too easy

Glad to see someone is actually reporting that Thomas is showing up let's see if he can show up in a game now.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

The pressure is on Thomas not to just be the #3 but to become the #2 wide out and replace ARE on punt returns. Then he's worth a 1st round pick.

Malcolm Kelly is a knee injury waiting to happen.

Fred Davis? If he could actually play TE they could shift Cooley to be a slot/Hback guy who can block.

Even with just Thomas and Davis they might have an offense to reckon IF AND ONLY IF they judiciously draft some talented OL.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

"Whether they would have brought some wide receivers in or not, I still have to bust my tail. It's nothing different."

Memo to: Devin Thomas
From: Redskins fans everywhere
Subject: Your comments

It needs to be COMPLETELY different

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Not JLaC, Paul Terino.

(filling in for cL)

Reading is fundamental.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

having only 2 seconds to get open isn't really very fair to the Wrs either. SO, until Vinny fills the RT spot it doesn't matter if Devin "push off" Thomas busts his tail or not. JC won't have time to get him the ball...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Don't tell JM220 that. He has already threatened me with the hammers. And I know they are hungry to smack somebody in the back of the head.....

Posted by: 4thFloor

LMAO

Hail2theChief you know that was just wrong!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

LMAO

Hail2theChief you know that was just wrong!

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 26, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

I know, I'm ashamed (fingers crossed)

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Not that I'm trying to defend my alumboy, Mr. Thomas, or kneedle Malcolm Kelly, but in my intergoogling this morning looking for free agent OLBs still available, I found a separate special link for "3rd year wide receivers" ... then remembered something about something about how the third season is the make-or-breakout year for receivers.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Was it link to your comment about Charles Rogers going into his 3rd year?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

@DCSWEEN

I think the FO has done the right thing waiting on both Kelly & Thomas this off season. It's been one season and i'm sure they will improve. Davis would have played more last season but let's face it unless we run 2 TE sets Cooley can not come off the field. It still stings seeing Desean Jackson tear it up on ST and offense and Thomas struggle but i feel we will have the last laugh...ok I keep telling myself that in between shots of jose

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:30 PM | Report abuse

OK, let's plug in some real stats (source: nfl.com). How about a side by side comparison with Super Bowl winner Rothlisberber?

QB Roth. Campbell

Comp Pct. 59.9 62.3
Attempts 469 506
Yards 3,301 3,245
Avg. 7.0 6.4
TD's 17 13
Int's 15 6
Fumbles 14 7
F/Lost 7 1
Sacked 46 38
Rating 80.1 84.3
Run Avg. 3.0 5.5

Campbell has a higher completion percentage, similar yards per, slightly smaller average, dramatically superior TD to INT ratio, 4 fewer TD passes for the entire season, 15 fewer turnovers, better rushing average, better QB rating, and although Campbell "Holds the ball way too long" has 13 fewer sacks.

Statistically, Campbell was similar or better in most categories, yet the measure of success for the TEAMS was quite different.

What do you suppose that means?

Have at it everybody...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:31 PM | Report abuse

How can cambell become a system QB when in his college and pro career he consistenetly works under different OC. I say he needs three years under one system before we throw him under the bus. The closeest he has come is two years under saunders and now his second year under zorn.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

DG28 I agree totally. Although I don't particularly like Zorn's insistence on using his version of the WC Offense. We need to have JC do some of the things that he clearly does well. Throw mid-range passes over the middle, throw long, roll-out more, work from the shotgun more. All these things go against the WC Offense. JC did not throw long in the second half of the season because Zorn did not call any deep pass routes because he did not think JC would get the time to throw. All of our pass routes were short routes and easily defended. Ask any defender and they will tell you, it is easy to stop a short passing game and a run game if you don't have to worry about the long ball. JC has improved every year and he will improve this year. I just hope the rest of the team improves as well. He can't win by himself, and if we fail, it won't be his fault and his fault alone. He will need a couple of years in Zorn's offense to be good at - I just don't know if Zorn's offense is any good!!

Posted by: SPUD2 | March 26, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I agree zorns play calling especially on third down made it seem to me that he was overmatched. When our olinemen started going down we should have employed alot more bootlegs, cambell is fast enough he could have made something happen at least boght some time. Teams like denver bootleg every other passing down yet i hardly saw any last year. Where was ARE he disapearedon critical downs and ran backward and sideways never forward on punt returns.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

"...so it makes no sense to muddle on with a mediocre QB and not take a shot at making a big move to get "the guy" since that's what we do everywhere else anyway why should QB be different?"

zjfr2 -

I think your argument disproves your conclusion. If we are so deep in problems, what good will committing lots of cap money and/or high drafts picks on a QB do us? Or did you have another plan for acquiring one?

We would be better served using the picks and money to get our house in order and build our lines back to dominance. Without that, I don't see how any QB will make a big difference. As posted above, side by side - Campbell was statistically similar to Rothlisberger, but what good did that do us?

Build the lines.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I still feel we should have drafted a RT with the Sleepy Davis pick last year or at least a OLB. Think how much better our position could be now...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I'm not ready to pull the plug on Thomas and Kelly just yet. Kelly's knees are a concern and his lack of swift feet was always a concern, but his big body is a great reason to be hopeful. I can see him as a legitimate threat in the end zone. Thomas has the speed and he's a big guy, too. Maybe the team would be better letting him play the number two position instead of Randal El. Randal El is not a legit 2nd receiver anyway. He drops way too many passes, so I don't see throwing Thomas in there as a major risk. What Thomas needs is playing time. With the speed of he and Moss, it will stretch defenses and open up underneath stuff for Kelly or Cooley.

And by the way, if the team were in a position through trading that they could get their hands on Robieski late in the second round, they shouldn't hesitate to take him. The guy is going to be a star and he's another big body.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 26, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

You know what would have been fun? If we had the interweb back in 87 when there was a for real QB controversy…….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 26, 2009 2:45 PM

I can see it now....

(Now if 1987 had RI)

dlhaze1 - How can we trust you on QBs now when you said Jay Shroeder was the next Sonny..........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

Typical offseason B.S-talk from guys who know that they sucked...This kid is a bum. The offense will suck again...why? because it is a year OLDER, with the same deficiencies !

Posted by: po403 | March 26, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse
Outside of colston And Boldin how many wide recievers had great rookie years. thentake into account he left college after his sophmore season the list gets smaller

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

"and not take a shot at making a big move to get "the guy" since that's what we do everywhere else anyway why should QB be different?""

Please, indulge us as to the last time Peyton Manning or Tom Brady was on the market?

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

I still feel we should have drafted a RT with the Sleepy Davis pick last year or at least a OLB. Think how much better our position could be now...

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:33 PM

If he wasn't the next Shar Purdanish.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Was it link to your comment about Charles Rogers going into his 3rd year?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009 3:30 PM

Either him, Mike Williams, or Troy Williamson.

HailtotheChief, also ... kind of frustrating that all three ripen at the same time ... and there's no WR from any of the drafts prior to that. In related news, I learned today that Eddie "Big Target" Royal also had a prolific college career as a punt returner ... running north rather than east-west ...

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

I quite like that Thomas is putting a premium on time with the QB.

That's one thing Moss never really got a handle on and I believe his play has suffered for it.

ARE knows about it, but his physical ability is not what it once was - and he's a 3rd option anyway.

I just wish the new receivers weren't so stoopid. I think intelligence may be one of the most underrated traits of a receiver.

Hail, kiids.

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 26, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Given that Cooley (the receiving TE) and Yoder (the blocking ... plus TD catching TE) are relatively young and solidly on the roster, I still don't understand the math that convinced the Skins to use the pick on Fred Davis. Not that I don't think he can be good, just that I don't think there will be enough playing time for him. TE just didn't (and still doesn't) seem like a position of need.

Posted by: dcsween | March 26, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

SJK on the zjack manifesto!
Dude, if everything you just went on and on and on about [in your 3:08pm post] is a problem with the team, how in the world would a major 'plash' for "the guy" at QB be in their best interest?

Posted by: 4-12 | March 26, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=nfldk2k83rdyrWR

very interesting myth busting on the "3rd year breakout" by receivers.

Posted by: showell81 | March 26, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone know Malcolm Kelley's status?

Posted by: Ejayraptor | March 26, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy ahead of him.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse


An obvious attempt by the Washington Post to destroy the Redskins.

I think it's pretty obvious that Thomas read my discouraging words and decided to embarrass me by proving me and the rest of the naysayers wrong.

I happen to know the "personal business" was Memorization Class, designed to help Thomas remember where to line up and where to run his patterns,

He returned early and missed Ms. Dinklewell's Charm lessons, so expect him to act like a Azz to fans. Maybe next year.

Seriously? Come on kid. Get the last laugh. Work your butt off. Shut us negatories up big time.

Then smilel and sign the nice lady's autograph book.

You will OWN this town.

Posted by: TheCork | March 26, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

KID of (Kid n'Play)missed the first few days of workouts because of personal reasons, Yeah Whatever! Let's get something straight Mr.Underachiever You had better get it together it was because of you that Jason Campbell has had to take shot's from some goofballs on this blog,its because of you that Campbell wasn't a pro-bowler, yeah you and your buddy(Play)the oft injured one had Jason swinging and twisting in the wind because of your lack of commitment if i were your coach you Mr.Thomas would be on a very short leash, along with Hop-a-long Kelly!!! LETS GO GENTLEMAN, TIME TO START EARNING YOUR PAYCHECK!!!

Posted by: dargregmag | March 26, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy ahead of him.
AFter game 3 of 2008 Thomas had exceeded the TOTAL 2008 output of Thomas and Sleepy combined. Nice

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Opps.. I meant Jackson

Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy ahead of him.
AFter game 3 of 2008 DeSean Jackson had exceeded the TOTAL 2008 output of Thomas and Sleepy combined. Nice

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

If we don't resign Marcus Washington I don't see how we do not draft defensively early but I still think our largest problem is RT.

Posted by: Hail2theChief | March 26, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know Malcolm Kelley's status?

Posted by: Ejayraptor | March 26, 2009"

Recovering from yet another knee surgery ...
can't work out yet.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy ahead of him.
AFter game 3 of 2008 Thomas had exceeded the TOTAL 2008 output of Thomas and Sleepy combined. Nice

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

I cannot stress enough how OLD it gets to repeat this: Vinny passed on Desean Jackson because he is SHORT!!!! Same reason he passed on Eddie Royal. We (well you all) were all clamoring for a TALL WR since our veterans are small so Vinny selected several.

Please, people do not bring this up again!!!!

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 26, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know Malcolm Kelley's status?

Posted by: Ejayraptor | March 26, 2009"

++++++++++++++++
Rich and well rested.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

+++How do you know he is a bum after one year? I believe some of you just like to be negative and put others down in order to make yourselves feel better which is very sad.

JM220+++

Boy you got THAT right. What better way to start the day than pound on the guy who was supposed to help turn around the team I've been rooting for since the 1960s.

But why when we put others down and we feel better is it "very sad?" Study your Solypsism. That's not sadness, that's a Sacrament.

If it wasn't for journalistic protections there'd be a lot of dudes on this site busted for practicing Psychiatry without a license. You just better hope Danny's Best Bud Tiny Tom doesn't read this.

Posted by: TheCork | March 26, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

"If he wasn't the next Shar Purdanish.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 26, 2009"

OUR 1st ROUND PICK == Sam Baker, starting left tackle for the eventual playoff bound Atlanta Falcons.

Next? Instead we got grumpy, sleepy, and dopey.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

"Does anyone know Malcolm Kelley's status?

Posted by: Ejayraptor | March 26, 2009"

We're releasing that info strictly on a "knee to know" basis.

Posted by: TheCork | March 26, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Good Lord, did someone just refer to Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly as 'Kid-n-Play'?

Wow...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 26, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

What do you suppose that means?

Have at it everybody...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:31 PM

It means some people on here don't know what the F they're talking about. Which isn't really news.

Posted by: mack1 | March 26, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

SkinsneedaGM,

Desean Jackson would have been in the same situation if he would have ended up here. It does actually matter what team you are on. The Eagles had to play him, that is why he had significant playing time. It wasnt because he blew away everybody else. He had quite a few mishaps especially when he celebrated a bit too early. Coaches, system, and fit are variables that you should consider before saying that we should have drafted this person or signed this person.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

a one trick pony RB who's biggest compliments at this point are about his blocking

Posted by: zjfr2

If you are refering to Portis here, you need to look at some all-time RB stats, and maybe check the pro bowl roster. Also, check your NFL gear. Are there Redskins logos on it? This is an amazingly negative criticism of a truly GREAT player, if Portis isn't good enough you will never be pleased by anyone

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

Desean Jackson would have been in the same situation if he would have ended up here.

I totally agree

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"Please, people do not bring this up again!!!!

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 26, 2009"

Jason Jones DE/DT 22 years old 6'5" 275 pounds out
of Easter Michigan.

Is that tall enough for you Lisa? Vinnie also passed up on him ... they could have used the original 2nd round pick on him and the 1st round on Sam Baker. Surely both would be starting for this team as this Jason had 5 sacks, 3 fumbles force and 31 tackles as backup with Tennessee. Beats out all of our starters!!!!!!!!!

Vinnie's serendipitous wall pegs didn't detect him apparently? The only time he made a good selection was when he let an intern pick as everyone he was interested in was off the boards. It was our starting safety Mr. Horton.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

thomas translation: after being burned by a JLC post a few days ago, the team and I realize we need to put on a PR blitz to ensure confidence in our fan base. I'm here now, no worries.

Posted by: ThatGuy2 | March 26, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

I cannot stress enough how OLD it gets to repeat this: Vinny passed on Desean Jackson because he is SHORT!!!! Same reason he passed on Eddie Royal. We (well you all) were all clamoring for a TALL WR since our veterans are small so Vinny selected several.

Please, people do not bring this up again!!!!


Posted by: Lisa_R | March 26, 2009 3:59 PM
--------------------------------
Well, damn...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 26, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I cannot stress enough how OLD it gets to repeat this: Vinny passed on Desean Jackson because he is SHORT!!!! Same reason he passed on Eddie Royal. We (well you all) were all clamoring for a TALL WR since our veterans are small so Vinny selected several.

Please, people do not bring this up again!!!!

Posted by: Lisa_R

DeSean Jackson also had attitude questions, and we needed a big WR, not another smurf

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

That ESPN article is quite good about when WRs make their mark. I suspect if you broke out WRs rookie years into first half and second half, you'd see a big jump in the second half.

Seems that most of the top WRs needed to have made a mark by year 2, even if stardom was a year or two further down the road. I like that he looked at age as well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Given that Cooley (the receiving TE) and Yoder (the blocking ... plus TD catching TE) are relatively young and solidly on the roster, I still don't understand the math that convinced the Skins to use the pick on Fred Davis. Not that I don't think he can be good, just that I don't think there will be enough playing time for him. TE just didn't (and still doesn't) seem like a position of need.

Posted by: dcsween

In 4 or 5 years when Cooley's skills diminish Davis will be hitting his prime, does it make sense now?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"and we needed a big WR, not another smurf"

Uh no, we needed a WR that could run a route and catch the ball. It makes no difference how tall he was. Santana Moss didn't rely on the massive Antwaan Randle El to get his 78 receptions and 1000 yards, just as DeSean Jackson didn't rely on those mammoth Philly WRs to get his 60 receptions and 900+ yards.

All the talk about "big" WRs is just as dumb now as it was back then.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

zjfr2,

just so I'm understanding here, you dislike or want to do away with both Campbell and Portis?

i'm just going to charge your negativity to the offseason and be done with it. Beacuse there isn't any logical explanation for wanting to rid of Portis, except if you don't like the guy, thought they gave up too much, or you wish they'd kept Bailey.

which is it?

Posted by: RedDMV | March 26, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy ahead of him.
AFter game 3 of 2008 Thomas had exceeded the TOTAL 2008 output of Thomas and Sleepy combined. Nice

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

I cannot stress enough how OLD it gets to repeat this: Vinny passed on Desean Jackson because he is SHORT!!!! Same reason he passed on Eddie Royal. We (well you all) were all clamoring for a TALL WR since our veterans are small so Vinny selected several.

Please, people do not bring this up again!!!!

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 26, 2009 3:59 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vinny has an horrendous Draft record and its because he listened to the fans??? Or, he makes picks regardless of college stats or combine stats.
If you look at the Combine stats from 2008, Jackson beat out Thomas in the majority of skills.. Should of given Vinny a clue??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"In 4 or 5 years when Cooley's skills diminish Davis will be hitting his prime, does it make sense now?

Posted by: pabrian2003"

Excellent point. In 4 or 5 years when Cooley's skills diminish, Fred Davis will be hitting his prime just as he hits free agency. That's an excellent contingency plan.

Dude, you're reaching right now.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"a one trick pony RB who's biggest compliments at this point are about his blocking

Posted by: zjfr2"

Yep, a one-trick pony who runs equally well to the outside, off-tackle, up the gut, on draws, reads his blocks better than any back in the game, isn't afraid of contact, and can pick-up blitzes from linebackers and DBs alike, as well as put a chip block better than any RB in the league. A certain one-trick pony we got here.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

What do you suppose that means?

Have at it everybody...

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:31 PM

It means some people on here don't know what the F they're talking about. Which isn't really news.

Posted by: mack1 | March 26, 2009 4:03 PM

Yeah, I think sometimes passion takes over reason. Frankly, I like that people have such strong opinions, and that they are often divergent. I have had to re-examine mine more than once after reading posts here.

I think this QB debate is so interesting because there really is no final right answer to arrive at. We can throw around stats all day, but every team is different, so comparison can only paint part of the picture.

There are so many extenuating circumstances attached to last season that it's hard to be clear about Campbell. That's why there are a lot of "He sucks and holds the ball too long" post that get countered with "Nobody is open and we don't want reckless turn-overs."

I think no matter what we do in the future, we will without a doubt be better served with dominant O and D lines. D line looks like it's maybe one guy away, but O line? It's possible we could be looking at 5 new faces in 2 years. We need to get BUSY with that.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm not thrilled with the rookie year of Thomas or Kelly but I think it's a little early to go calling either a bum or injury proned. Keep in mind they are 22 yrs old, had a QB learning a new system, and a marginal O-line. Give these guys another year before writing them off. I expect at least one of them to step up this year. If Kelly's knee is OK, I think he will have a solid sophomore campaign.

Posted by: Notorious_LMG | March 26, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Desean Jackson would have been in the same situation if he would have ended up here. It does actually matter what team you are on. The Eagles had to play him, that is why he had significant playing time. It wasnt because he blew away everybody else. He had quite a few mishaps especially when he celebrated a bit too early. Coaches, system, and fit are variables that you should consider before saying that we should have drafted this person or signed this person.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer | March 26, 2009 4:03 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jackson had more receptions after the first 3 games of his career than Thomas and Davis combined for all of 2008.. They didnt have to play him.. he earned it!! 12 receptions in the first 2 games!!

Games REC YDS
Jackson 16 62 912
Thomas 16 15 120
Davis 11 3 27

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just think...Vinny passed on DeSean Jackson TWICE and picked Thomas and Sleepy Davis ahead of him.
AFter game 3 of 2008 DeSean Jackson had exceeded the TOTAL 2008 output of Thomas and Sleepy combined. Nice

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Yep, a one-trick pony who runs equally well to the outside, off-tackle, up the gut, on draws, reads his blocks better than any back in the game, isn't afraid of contact, and can pick-up blitzes from linebackers and DBs alike, as well as put a chip block better than any RB in the league. A certain one-trick pony we got here.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Who also can't catch and can't break big runs....by one trick pony I meant he is pure and simple a follow his blockers and get what there. When is the last time he's broken through made a guy miss and ripped off a 40 yard run? when's the last time he caught a screen or swing pass and took it to the house? When's the last time he busted a long TD period? Don't get me wrong, CP is still a very good back. He doesn't fumble much, he does indeed read his blocks well, and he does pass protect well. He a very good back. But he isn't a home run threat anymore like he was in Denver, he isn't durable enough to be effective as a 25-30 carry a game guy anymore, he's broken down each of the last three years and he's never been much of a threat in the passing game yet he is compensated as a top 3 guy. I can name several guys I'd take over him right now, he's good, but his best days are behind him and his huge contract will only get more glaring as his production dwindles.

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Stop blaming these 3 kids for not performing... The fault lies with Vinny for picking the wrong players and the wrong positions. Vinny must GO!!!

Posted by: jercha | March 26, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

If the Skins get either Kelly or Thomas to pan out, Vinny's strategy of picking two WRs will have paid off. With 1 year in the books, its not looking too good.

I liked that Vinny went for two guys to address the problem -- though didn't know much about the guys themselves.

Still can't explain the Fred Davis pick, though

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

"In 4 or 5 years when Cooley's skills diminish Davis will be hitting his prime, does it make sense now?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

Let me count the ways it matters. Let's see you have an entire aging, crippled offensive line, your best cornerback is mostly injured yet is still the only shutdown corner they have, you had to go out and get an aging 36 year old smallish defensive end that cost 2 draft picks this year because you don't have enough? You have one YOUNG starting linebacker who has knee problems ala Malcolm Kelly. The other two are aging rapidly.

Hmmm and you need a tight end for when Cooley is past his prime? IN THE SECOND ROUND? One who doesn't really perform on specials? One who needs remedial blocking training?

You really are an idiot ... sorry ...

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

Did you know that Shar Pordonush and Will Ferral are from Irvine?

Posted by: Tyler84101 | March 26, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

...He a very good back. But he isn't a home run threat anymore like he was in Denver...

Posted by: zjfr2 | March 26, 2009 4:36 PM

Isn't it funny how everyone looks better behind the Broncos O-line? Portis, Cutler, even the no-name backs they have now. But I'm sure you see no connection to the Skins beat up, injured old O-line.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm and you need a tight end for when Cooley is past his prime? IN THE SECOND ROUND? One who doesn't really perform on specials? One who needs remedial blocking training?


Posted by: periculum
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Then you commit 150 Million dollars in Free Agency money to Defensive players for a top 10 Defense but nothing for an Offense in the bottom fourth of the league that scored less points than the 0-16 Lions.

I think Vinny must be on Jerry Jones' secret payroll.. It'll all come out in a tell-all book in the year 2040 when the Skins win their first Super Bowl since 1992 under the new ownership of the Bidwells.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I agree, the Davis pick defies logic to me. How much further ahead would we be using that pick on an LB, OG, OT, DE, Corner...

We needed depth in so many positions, TE was not one of them. And you don't draft to replace a TE 5 years early. Cooley started as a rookie, and he was a third round pick if I recall.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

If last year's rookies come close to their potential this year, shoring up the D this offseason makes sense. The biggest hole remains the O-line, which they partially addressed with Dock. This analyst
(he wasn't the only one) gave the Skins an "A" in the draft last year.

Picks: WR Devin Thomas, TE Fred Davis, WR Malcolm Kelly, OL Chad Rinehart, DB Justin Tryon, P Durant Brooks, DB Kareem Moore, QB Colt Brennan, DL Rob Jackson, DB Chris Horton
Positives: Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Brooks
Negative: Defensive end not addressed until the seventh round.
Bottom line: A. Ten overall picks with lots of potential from top to bottom. The two wideouts slipped a little and could all end up providing great value. Thomas and Kelly could develop into quality big targets, and an AFC scout told Yahoo! Sports in February that Davis was the best overall talent at tight end in this draft. The punter need was addressed with the best one the college game had to offer in Brooks. Brennan is an intriguing pick late in the sixth round. A lot of potential starters in this draft.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

"Then you commit 150 Million dollars in Free Agency money to Defensive players for a top 10 Defense but nothing for an Offense in the bottom fourth of the league that scored less points than the 0-16 Lions."

Who on the entire Redskins team last year was a "game changer". A player so good, that anytime they were on the field they had the potential to turn a game around by forcing a big play?

Who? Moss? When he's healthy those 3 - 4 games a year? Maybe. Who else?

Haynesworth is that kind of player. Hall can be as well. Rogers should be, but he can't catch a cold in the rain. Nobody on defense made big time game changing plays. Now they have two. I think that's better than having a bunch of guys that are realy good and try hard, but can't take it over when it's crunch time. We needed a couple of game changers, and we have them now.

We have a first and a third round draft pick and we signed Dockery. With any luck (and that's a loooong shot with Vinnie), one of our first two picks will be O line. That gets us started.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

If last year's rookies come close to their potential this year, shoring up the D this offseason makes sense. The biggest hole remains the O-line, which they partially addressed with Dock. This analyst
(he wasn't the only one) gave the Skins an "A" in the draft last year.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A Yahoo Sports Analyst whose only background was college reporting at Michigan.
Ummm I smell a Snyder PR payroll guy.. no one else could've found analyst giving the Skins an A in the 08 Draft.

Oh, and the Bills, according to wire reports, were thrilled to release Dock.. Hopefully, Buges will coach him back up..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

wow thanks Tenorio for actaully doing some research and reporting that Devin Thomas is in fact working out and had been before the start of the offseason workouts..Maybe JLC should have tried that before he trashed him in his other blog report...now Tenorio or Jason Reid please try to find Bugel and interview him so he can tell u that Rinehart is very much in the mix at RG. Oh and also WASHINGTON POST BOSSES maybe its time to let JLC go. Hr prob would be much happier in Boston. Lets get a guy who u know enjoys covering out team. Thanks

Posted by: acm1179 | March 26, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

. Lets get a guy who u know enjoys covering out team. Thanks

Posted by: acm1179 | March 26, 2009 5:33 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am sure he would enjoy covering the Skins if they were led by a competent and cooperative FO.

If you dont like objective journalism go to Redskins.Com.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Ummm I smell a Snyder PR payroll guy.. no one else could've found analyst giving the Skins an A in the 08 Draft.

Oh, and the Bills, according to wire reports, were thrilled to release Dock.. Hopefully, Buges will coach him back up..

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 5:23 PM


LOL, if I'm a Snyder payroll guy something's amiss, because I'm not getting a paycheck!

I didn't know much about the author's background, but somebldy decided to pay him for his analysis. I also read scouting reports, and the rooks come with a lot of potential. I stand by my statement: if last year's rooks approach their potential this year, shoring up the D makes sense. But you gotta repair that O-line--HIGH in the draft.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

oh no periculum rinks I'm an idiot. I'm going to support the team I love peri cool um, you can continue to be a cry baby hater the rest of your miserable life. Enjoy!

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I've always wondered and strangely admired how sports cliches borrow from other sports

Clinton Portis isn't the home run hitter he used to be in Denver.

They went for knockout blow but will have to settle for a field goal instead

etc

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 6:37 PM | Report abuse

Clinton Portis was checkmated on many of his attempts to find the endzone in the 2nd half of the season.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 26, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"now Tenorio or Jason Reid please try to find Bugel and interview him so he can tell u that Rinehart is very much in the mix at RG."
Posted by: acm1179 | March 26, 2009"

Gee before making a request to fire someone in today's economy maybe you should get your facts straight?

1. WHO F&&8*ING REPLACED HEYER WHO REPLACED SAMUELS IN THE RAVENS GAME?
a. THIRD ROUND DRAFT PICK T/G Rhinehart?
b. Undrafted CENTER/GUARD Geisinger.

2. WHAT DID TERREL SUGGS DO WHEN HE SAW THIS OCCUR?

If you are reasonably intelligent and can answer those questions you should understand that Jason was only confirming what we saw with our own eyes.

3. WHO DEFENDED CASEY RABACH IN A RECENT POST?

From this you might see that Jason & Jason are trying very hard to be objective and give credit where credit is due.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

"now Tenorio or Jason Reid please try to find Bugel and interview him so he can tell u that Rinehart is very much in the mix at RG.
Posted by: acm1179 | March 26, 2009"

In other words you must be yet another damned elementary school student playing hookey on this blog.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 7:12 PM | Report abuse

i have a feeling that we are going to get harvin in the draft

Posted by: mudman220 | March 26, 2009 7:22 PM | Report abuse

"LB Clint Sintim (6-3, 253 pounds) ran 4.44 seconds in the short shuttle and 7.54 seconds in the three-cone drill, and he did position drills."

Local guy available in the lower rounds?

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 7:35 PM | Report abuse

"i have a feeling that we are going to get harvin in the draft

Posted by: mudman220 | March 26, 2009"

As much as he "postures" about being in charge ... I remember Jason posting, from a "source" that he may be on a very short leash.

Let's assume that Zorn and Blache have a great deal more say in what happens this time around. With Danny acting as "tie breaker".

Be nice if he hired Beathard just for the draft to help ensure Vinnie's pegs are lined up straight ...

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

"LB Clint Sintim (6-3, 253 pounds) ran 4.44 seconds in the short shuttle and 7.54 seconds in the three-cone drill, and he did position drills."

Local guy available in the lower rounds?

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 7:35 PM ===========================================
I'm guessing Sintim goes in the top half of the 2nd round. And closer to 1st pick in the 2nd then the middle pick, at that.

I'm revising my draft trade imaginary high improbability scenario. (Remember the one where I speculated Orakpo would be available when our pick comes up at 13, and Miami offers their 1st and the 2nd they got from us in trade...and then we draft Mack?)
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 26, 2009 7:44 PM | Report abuse

Jack Del Rio, on NFLN Total Access, just said that Tory Holt was at the team's facility recently.

What's with all this fussing &, in some cases, nonsense all about? Who cares if Vinny F'd up the draft, again? I mean, being passionate about your team should be about cheering your players on (knowing that you had nothing to do with obtaining them), rooting for the team and living with & through the good/bad times. Plus, we know better than to Believe in Vinny's drafting. Oh well.

Just because deSean Jackson had a lot of catches doesn't mean he learned his playbook quicker or trained harder, or should be a Skin (I don't like his celebrations and when he tosses the football into the air before he crosses the endzone); it's simply that he had more opportunities given to him and he took advantage of them well.

Kid (of Kid N' Play) possibly could have created opportunities for himself, by being physically ready and knowing the routes and abusing other team's defenses. But the fact of the matter is that Zorn never expected much out of him, Play including. Rookie WRs! Come on!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

Hey, if any one of the teams that hold picks 33-45 want to sign Golston, & Vinny decides to let it go, we could have a shot at Sintim?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 7:53 PM | Report abuse

I agree with drafting OT at 13. If we can trade down a couple slots that's fine. Many seem to wish we drafted more lineman. Here is our chance, we could get a couple or a few this year. I wouldn't mind sintim that would be a trade down guy.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I agree with drafting OT at 13. If we can trade down a couple slots that's fine. Many seem to wish we drafted more lineman. Here is our chance, we could get a couple or a few this year. I wouldn't mind sintim that would be a trade down guy.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone else catch this??
I just re-read JLAC's opening paragraph... Laugh my $^%&*... a-s= off..

"Following disappointing rookie campaigns for wide receivers Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas, two of the Redskins three second-round selections last year...."

Ummm so the unnamed third pick of those three player picks in the 2nd round was Fred Davis and he had a total of 3 catches for 27 yards in 11 games. Kelly had 3 catches for 18 yards in 5 games and Thomas had 15 catches for 120 yards in 16 games. JLAC made a not so subtle Dig at the three worst performing picks in the Second Round coming from the SAME TEAM! A grand total of 21 catches for 165 yards would be a failure for one Receiver picked in the 2nd round..but THREE combined!! How much did each one of those receptions cost Snyder?? Lets see at about a 4 mil package per player thats about $600K per catch. We could of had 3 Randy Moss's!

With a dozen guys on a scouting team flying all over the country for a full year visiting colleges watching tape, how do you strike out 3 times in the Second round? You would think the odds would allow you one successful starter in that Round. And the most successful pick in the seventh round (Horton) was selected by an Intern who probably never left Redskins Park.

It would be wiser to trade all 4 picks this year for known NFL talent than to take another gamble on the Scouting team's and/or FO recommendations.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Yeah and we all know a career in football is based ENTIRELY on your rookie season. Haha, so let's dog the rookies and give the intern a hand job.

Man if any one of us could control the team they would be Super Bowl champs every year. We're great and everyone involved in the current Redskins org is lame.

Man am I right, me me me

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

SkinsneedaGM,

I agree with your handle, but in defense of the Kid N' Play and Freddy D, they were ROOKIES. They will play much more ball this season. I don't think Jim Zorn envisioned using his ROOKIE Wrs often last year, barring injury. He was trying to figure out his new job as much as the rookies were.

They will shine or they will fade (like Sports_Gurus erection when JC17 gets re-signed, mid-season,) like the rest of the first & second round WRs usually do after their THIRD year.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 8:40 PM | Report abuse

While not fluid enough to project as well in the 4-3, Sintim's burst upfield as a rush linebacker make him a first-day possibility for 3-4 defenses.
nfl.com

Posted by: hcicron | March 26, 2009 8:42 PM | Report abuse

pabrain,

You're so right!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Just because deSean Jackson had a lot of catches doesn't mean he learned his playbook quicker or trained harder, or should be a Skin (I don't like his celebrations and when he tosses the football into the air before he crosses the endzone)

Posted by: matthewvickers

I like the way Kelly and Davis and Thomas celebrate better. In theory that is, since they don't score!!

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 26, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Since defense is the only thing the skins have benn good at the last ten years they might as well go all D in the draft this year. OurD will be score more then our ofense then we can rename JC17 Brent Dilfer Johnson.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 8:47 PM | Report abuse

as disappointed as some of you are in our favorite team, the Redskins are far less disappointing than Dallas, and we dominated the Eagles

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Dude,

If I took a OT in round one, I'd def take an OLB in round three, & vice versa.

Sintim all day. Notice how nfl.com said, "possibility for 3-4 defenses," and not, "definitely not a 4-3 OLB.." Like they truly know how his defensive coordinator is going to use him? Until he's picked, they know squat.

If the dude has a good burst upfield and can rush, is fast and can cover, then we've found the OLB that we're looking for?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

as disappointed as some of you are in our favorite team, the Redskins are far less disappointing than Dallas, and we dominated the Eagles

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:49 PM |

The fact that we beat th EGGLE's twice saved the season for me but mainly since I live outside of philly it was definetly a quick way to shut up their fans

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

What kind of philosophy is Run well and play outstanding Defense....oh wait it's the best philosophy

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:52 PM | Report abuse

What kind of philosophy is Run well and play outstanding Defense....oh wait it's the best philosophy

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 8:52 PM

It's the only football really worth watching. SMASHMOUTH.

Posted by: DG28 | March 26, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

Negatives: Might be considered an end-linebacker "tweener" by 4-3 teams, but he could fit as a strong-side linebacker if he proves the ability to handle coverage responsibilities. ... Wasn't asked to drop into coverage, and might lack the fluid hips and change-of-direction agility needed to excel in that area. ... Rarely gets into position to block passes in space or at the line. ... Needs to shed tight end blocks on the edge and make more plays.

Posted by: hcicron | March 26, 2009 9:02 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest,

Lol! I really liked Thomas's crawl, at the 1:15 mark in this nfl.com footage from week 13. I thought it was a cool celebration? Portis takes a crazy hit to his neck at the 0:44 mark. I will never know the pounding that CP takes... dude sacrifices everything.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

hcicron,

that could be interpreted as almost as bad as him having been terrible in pass coverage. The fact that he hasn't done it does not indicate he sux at it?

But I'd like to see how he can cover our TEs before banking on him being any good in coverage.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

Smash mouth. love it. Sweeping the Eagles. love it. I really liked the 2nd eagles contest because we knew we weren't going to make the playoffs, but we won.

Samuels and jansen didn't play and we won. D. Thomas and Davis got significant playing time and we won

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

matthew, I agree, but hoping that we draft OL in the first, looks like oher would be there, would love to draft a starter in the 3rd and an olb would be tops. just dont want a project.his cone drills were 3rd from last among LB's which means he may not be the best cover guy out there. having said that, I hate classifing guys with numbers and not seeing him play makes me ill prepared to make any judgements on his potential.

Posted by: hcicron | March 26, 2009 9:24 PM | Report abuse

I Mock.

You are cordially invited to check out

Cork's 2009 Mock Mess and Car Wash

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock_Drafts/corks_2009_mock_nfl_draft.htm

Posted by: TheCork | March 26, 2009 9:26 PM | Report abuse

pabrain,

I love all of those things. Also, I love how our Defense allowed only 3 points!

That's the NFL's fourth ranked defense flexing some muscle.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

adding haynesworth to the 4th best defense, and the losses were Springs and Evans, by re-signing hall and adding wynn....i like it.

Campbell should get a short field on occasion this year

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

Jenkins falls to 25?! I can't see the Dolphins passing him up if he does fall to them but d@mn.

Screw Denver! And if they select A. Smith, I'm gonna be so pissed at you Cork!!!!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 26, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

nice mock cork, but no matter how many G/C's we can get our hands on, we still wouldn't have an OT

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:37 PM | Report abuse

i saw the dolphins trading with us to take jenkins at 13, in someone's mock

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:38 PM | Report abuse

Cork,

So you see Oher? Don't suspect they'll trade down and pick up Matthews and Eben Britton ... of course
that is what many think the Eggles will do. Or will they use one of their firsts to get Boldin?

It seems like this draft where they will be pitted against competing NFC BEAST opponents almost like they do during the season. With the Eagles and Giants plethora of picks and Dallas popularity with some of the prized free agents still left; not to mention potential draft picks.

Trade speculation?

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:40 PM | Report abuse

"i saw the dolphins trading with us to take jenkins at 13, in someone's mock

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

The Skins might take Jenkins ... its a need that they aren't advertising but it is a critical one ... right up there slightly after the OL and some young starter potential at linebacker ...

They are stuck with Portis and the 3 lame-egos for another year. At least ...

Running back should be next in line tied with kicker after OL, OLB and CB.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

pick up Matthews and Eben Britton

that'd be nice

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

springs was only there 9 games but he was our best corner those 9 games, jenkins wouldn't be a bad pick.

not sure why you took a stab at portis here, 6th all time avg yards per scrimmage

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

"adding haynesworth to the 4th best defense, and the losses were Springs and Evans, by re-signing hall and adding wynn....i like it.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

You're missing quite a bit again ...

They lost Washington, Springs, Evans, Philips, and Jason Taylor.

Replaced with Haynesworth, Hall, and Wynn.

Remember, this WAS the NFL's 4th ranked defense after Tennessee, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Springs was their only shutdown corner. PERHAPS Rogers will develop into one ... maybe Hall will live by everything he promised after the signing ... BIG IF'S.

Meanwhile, how do you replace the chemistry associated with a Washington, Springs and even Taylor and Philips were important in that regard.

Who plays outside linebacker when McIntosh goes down again? A replacement for Washington?

Depending on the draft is problematic given that you rely on V. Cerrato and his mumbly pegs. But with the salary cap its all they've got. Be nice to pick up a Samari Rolle or Dre Bly ...

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:51 PM | Report abuse

"not sure why you took a stab at portis here, 6th all time avg yards per scrimmage

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

In the 2nd half of last season ... last 8 games he looked very much like Benny Malone from Jack Pardee's Redskins.

No runs longer than 10. No danger to break off a long one. Limited to no pass catching ability. Blocking is fairly good. If you believe that Springs was "over-the-hill" because of his injuries ... keep in mind that he brought his "A" game in when he played ... Portis was really limited by what his offensive line was capable of and that was reflected in his performance in the last 8 games.

Portis is done. They need to find a replacement if it isn't Betts.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:56 PM | Report abuse

philips ?

taylor didn't do much, i did miss washington although he could be back

maybe you mean daniels who may be back too.

I think they like blades at an OLB spot, if they pick someone up better than Blades then you have Blades to back up every LB spot

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 10:00 PM | Report abuse

It sure looks to me like they need 2-5 picks in the 1st and 2nd round to attempt to make any kind of season just against the NFC EAST! I don't see how they can avoid losing all 6 games against those teams the way things are stacked up against them. Even with the sort of deal to obtain those picks its still a crap shoot.

Makes one wish that Snidley would hire a draft consultant like Beathard the way he hired Bugel to look at the OL when Spurrier was running things.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

"I think they like blades at an OLB spot, if they pick someone up better than Blades then you have Blades to back up every LB spot

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

Blades is really more of an MLB. Possible replacement for Fletcher.

Jackson and Wilson have the right physicality for the OLB position. Conversion from DE ala the Eagles Chris Gocong seems like something that should have been done by now. One wonders why it hasn't been attempted. I sincerely doubt its because of "stubborn coaching" or a bond with "aging veterans". Those guys definitely need depth behind them given age and injuries ...

It really means they just aren't that good. Depressing ...

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:06 PM | Report abuse

peri,
your focusing on 8 games, and dismissing the other 104, of a 7 year career to prove your point. Portis actually had a career high recepts 2years ago whe nhe lead the league in rushing attempts

he is 6th best all-time yards from scrimage on avg (min 85 games) are you nuts?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Cork I like your draft. I really think Denver would go with a defensive player at #12(I've seen Tyson Jackson, or Maybin). Which in turn would leave the skins to pick between Andre Smith, and Oher.

Posted by: TWISI | March 26, 2009 10:11 PM | Report abuse

i know blades is a MLB, but he played well at OLB, so he is the versatile back-up, or a starter for now.

as for Jackson and wilson, i don't know if they can play OLB if they can OK, but it's a stretch

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 10:12 PM | Report abuse

"philips ?

maybe you mean daniels who may be back too"

Sorry Daniels ... yes they COULD BE back ... both Daniels and Washington. Taylor was a starting DE replacing Philip Daniels. Currently, both he, and his replacement, Demetric Evans are gone.

Who replaces them?

Haynesworth and Montgomery are able to play DE leaving Golston and Griffin in the middle with Carter at the other end. Remember, they had previously pulled Carter to do a better job at stopping the run at times ... he is pretty small for 4-3 DE. His "stand-in"? Demetric Evans.

Wynn can play DT, as can Daniels.

So, you probably need one additional guy to be in the mix ... Jackson and Wilson are exclusively pass down DE's.

So, it might make sense to convert Jackson and Wilson to linebacker after drafting a DE.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

In the 2nd half of last season ... last 8 games he looked very much like Benny Malone from Jack Pardee's Redskins.

.. Portis was really limited by what his offensive line was capable of and that was reflected in his performance in the last 8 games...

Portis is done. They need to find a replacement if it isn't Betts.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:56 PM

LOL, thanks for the trip down memory lane! I remember Benny Malone, but I was about 10 years old then. Wasn't he kind of bow-legged?

Why would you say Portis is done? Even dinged up real bad, he gets the end zone a lot more than Betts. Bottom line, the O-line has to be fixed. It doesn't make sense for Skins fans to keep lusting after QBs and RBs who look good behind solid O-lines (like the Broncos, for example), but come here and struggle because a 4-man front looks like an all-out blitz. Menawhile the other 7 defenders can devise ways to double cover Moss and Cooley and key on Portis, if they choose to.

Portis still has blazing speed. JC17 didn't forget how to throw a football deep. It all starts with the O-line, and there's no fair way to evaluate the performance of skill players on offense until the O-line reaches some level of mediocrity for a full season.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 10:14 PM | Report abuse

"peri,
your focusing on 8 games, and dismissing the other 104, of a 7 year career to prove your point. Portis actually had a career high recepts 2years ago whe nhe lead the league in rushing attempts

he is 6th best all-time yards from scrimage on avg (min 85 games) are you nuts?

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009"

And LT is better. Do you think LaDamian Tomlinson is starting/feature caliber still? I think he may be younger than Portis.

And Shawn Springs, if we look at his entire career he is an elite all-pro shutdown corner at the same level as Champ Bailey. Why would you release him? Because of his age? Injuries?

Portis does not scare defenses ... they can ignore him and focus on the JC17 and his favorite targets. When the O-line is strong and he consistently makes his 4-5 yards per attempt then they wear down a defense ...

but he isn't a break away threat. Not someone you need to allocate a "spy" on the way most teams do with Brian Westbrook.

And next year he will be a lot worst ... he is definitely on the decline ... and it will get steeper.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:19 PM | Report abuse

Portis can't last for 16 games ...
and neither can LT apparently ...

you have to alternate him with other guys ... the way the Giants and Chargers did last year.

So, in the end Portis is not worth what he is being paid at this point.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:20 PM | Report abuse

LT 29, Portis (27) suffered because of Betts injury, supportive fans recognize this, Portis has a 98% start through his career, he led the NFL in carries 2 years ago and went to the pro bowl last year

He wont last forever but giving up on him now is mildly if not completely retarded

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Anybody that thinks a 27 year old, pro-bowl running back that ended the season 4th in yards behind a suspect offensive line is "finished" should be categorically ignored regarding all running back discussions.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

"Portis still has blazing speed. JC17 didn't forget how to throw a football deep. It all starts with the O-line, and there's no fair way to evaluate the performance of skill players on offense until the O-line reaches some level of mediocrity for a full season.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009"

More idiots ... we had this discussion 2 months ago and all I had to do was bring up his stats.

Where is his blazing speed in the passing game then?

Someone even tried to claim he had the same speed as Darrell Green, even at his advance age Green is still quite a bit faster.

Again, once and for all for posterity!!!

starting with game 9 against Pittsburgh:

ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM
13 51 3.9 22 0 7 73 10.4 29 0 0
15 68 4.5 20 0 2 6 3.0 3 0 0
29 143 4.9 20 0 2 16 8.0 16 0 0
11 22 2.0 5 0 1 15 15.0 15 0 0
11 32 2.9 11 0 3 14 4.7 19 0 1
25 77 3.1 10 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 0
22 70 3.2 14 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 0
29 80 2.8 7 1 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

I am not going to add this up again to show just how bad he performed ... I leave that as an exercise ...


Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

"Anybody that thinks a 27 year old, pro-bowl running back that ended the season 4th in yards behind a suspect offensive line is "finished" should be categorically ignored regarding all running back discussions.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009"

Read the stats and weep idiot. He was so bad he went from 1st to 4th. But he likes to blame his offensive line now doesn't he? I don't see that happening in places like Atlanta ...

Yes, the line did collapse ... but mostly in the passing game. Portis also collapsed when it came to the running game. He is so one dimensional its easy for a decent defense to scheme against him.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:36 PM | Report abuse

More idiots ... we had this discussion 2 months ago and all I had to do was bring up his stats...

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:33 PM

This is what's called a non-sequitur. I said Portis has blazing speed, and your eye chart does nothing to contradict that. Portis ran a 4.26 40 at Skins training camp in 2006. Last year he ran a competitve race with 24 year old (4.35 combine) Laron Landry.

Maybe you won't have to keep having the same discussions if you can pay attention long enough to actually understand a post, before you start shouting for the kids to get off your lawn.

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

"He was so bad he went from 1st to 4th."

Oh the tragedy...

Are you being serious with that comment?

"I am not going to add this up again to show just how bad he performed ... I leave that as an exercise ..."

So bad that his final 8 game performance extrapolates to 1,368 yards from scrimmage over a 16 game season. That's a categorical collapse if I've ever seen one.

"Yes, the line did collapse ... but mostly in the passing game."

You're right, Samuels, Jansen, and Randy Thomas playing injured or being taken out of the lineup completely had no effect on the running game whatsoever. Stephon Heyer, the massive run-blocking mauler with horrible pass-protection skills, clearly supports your argument.

Posted by: psps23 | March 26, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

It is funny how the "Redskin insider" is so quick to point out that the man was not their at the beginning of the week, but takes a week to say he did show up and had a reason. What haters

Posted by: rskinz34 | March 26, 2009 10:49 PM | Report abuse

I guess the fact that three of the eight games were against the teams ranked 2,3, and 4 in rush defense and three were against 9, 12, and 13 had no bearing on Portis's rushing numbers. Also I am sure losing your LT and best run blocking RT didn't impact the numbers either. He's just washed up.

Posted by: lifelongfan | March 26, 2009 10:52 PM | Report abuse

Hey Periculum,

In the 2nd half of last season ... last 8 games he looked very much like Benny Malone from Jack Pardee's Redskins.

Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 9:56 PM

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

No one is old enough to remember Benny Malone and be online, too. Must be a well wired nursing home somewhere??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

"Portis ran a 4.26 40 at Skins training camp in 2006. Last year he ran a competitive race with 24 year old (4.35 combine) Laron Landry."

Posted by: Alan4 | March 26, 2009 10:46 PM

Alan4 -

WHO CARES what his 40 time is (was), or that he tied Landry in a race. What does he do in the Game?

When is the last time he broke one big in a GAME? First carry for Gibbs? A HUGE run for Portis is 17 yards (massive). When is the last time you saw him beat a tackler in a one on one situation in the open field? Nothing comes to mind. I can't even remember the last time he ran away from a defense. In the last 8 games of the season, how many TD's did he score? ZERO!

Do yourself a favor and stop with the "he had a fast 40 time once and tied Landry". It's a meaningless statement.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 11:06 PM | Report abuse

It is funny how the "Redskin insider" is so quick to point out that the man was not their at the beginning of the week, but takes a week to say he did show up and had a reason. What haters

Posted by: rskinz34 | March 26, 2009 10:49 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So what, he didnt show up for 16 games last year, either.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | March 26, 2009 11:08 PM | Report abuse

starting with game 9 against Pittsburgh:

periculum

I've re-posted your 'fatal' flaw. You can't pick an arbitrary point to accumulate stats. Portis has had a consistent 7 years, you're starting at week 9 yr 7

your point is WEAK 9

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:42 PM | Report abuse

He was so bad he went from 1st to 4th.

is this an oxy? moron

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:44 PM | Report abuse

It is funny how the "Redskin insider" is so quick to point out that the man was not their at the beginning of the week, but takes a week to say he did show up and had a reason. What haters

Posted by: rskinz34

Yup! It should be Redskins (won't let me) Inside-r

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:47 PM | Report abuse

WHO CARES what his 40 time is (was), or that he tied Landry in a race. What does he do in the Game?
Posted by: edvar

What does he do in the Game? He's 6th all-time in average yards from scrimmage per game (minimum 85 games).

6th ALL TIME, Payton is 5th, Walter Payton, So, that is what he does in the game.

He's the 6th best ever in the game


Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

So what, he didnt show up for 16 games last year, either.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM

oooooh, nice shot, zinnnnng, ouch, take that 23 year old punk

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 26, 2009 11:54 PM | Report abuse

My point is that speed is not his game, toughness is, so why do we keep talking about his speed?

...also my stats were wrong, he scored in each of the last two games. My bad on that one.

And I would take Walter Payton in a heartbeat over Portis. Anytime, any day.

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

And I would take Walter Payton in a heartbeat over Portis.

Interesting choice of metaphor.

Posted by: daggar | March 27, 2009 12:05 AM | Report abuse

The point is that he is fast, tough, he blocks, and takes no plays off. Not even when making tackles in the pre season because of crappy Brunell ducks.

and that he is 6th all time and your doggin' him. he's 6th all-time!

I would take Payton too, but we can't have Payton. The point is Portis' name can be mentioned along side Payton and Jim Brown and LT, edgerrin, barry sanders, the top 6

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 12:15 AM | Report abuse

Portis is 10th in td's first 7 years, and will probably pass Riggo this year or next as skins all time leading rusher

might as well enjoy it

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 12:19 AM | Report abuse

Portis is fine. 1 big carry sounds good. Adrian Peterson had a 40 yard TD in the playoffs. The rest of carries were for 2 yards and Minny punted a lot.

Big plays are not what defines a good RB. Gaining yards consistently is also effective -- and with a solid OL, Portis did that very very well.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 12:28 AM | Report abuse

+++Desean Jackson would have been in the same situation if he would have ended up here. It does actually matter what team you are on. The Eagles had to play him, that is why he had significant playing time. It wasnt because he blew away everybody else. He had quite a few mishaps especially when he celebrated a bit too early. Coaches, system, and fit are variables that you should consider before saying that we should have drafted this person or signed this person.

Posted by: KingJoffeJoffer+++

QUITE A FEW MISHAPS? Name another?

There were about 4-5 rookie receivers better than the ones Vinny carefuly selected last year. He also selected a CB who's too short and slow and a OL who could not even play teams. His drafted punter was cut. And he traded away THIS YEAR's #2 for a tapdancer.

The Jackson wouldn't have succeeded for the Redskins contingent needs to get a CLUE, unless you mean Michael Jackson..

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 1:29 AM | Report abuse

Portis was a probowl player last year. That means he's one of the best RBs in the NFC. But that said, teams win games; not individual players. The Skins were playing top 10 defenses when the offensive line broke down. Those defenses stacked the box -- knowing the Skins didn't have time to pass and daring them to run into the teeth of defense.

As a result, Portis didn't have any 100 yard games after the offensive line was battered in the Steelers game (9). He couldn't make long runs, because the WRs (other than Moss) are poor at down field blocking. His longest run of the season (29yds) actually came against Pittsburgh.

It's a team effort. The RB gains more yards when the other 10 offensive players execute properly. In the Skins case -- there were too many players injured and the backups were not ready to play against the defenses in the NFL. No RB would have been effective in the Skins offense at the end of the season -- not even the 4th best in the NFL...

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 1:32 AM | Report abuse

Cork -- how do you know how last year's draft will pan out? At the moment: 9 out of 10 of the Skins 2008 draft selections are still on the roster. Receivers usually require at least three years to learn the game and establish themselves.

You want an example? How about Roddy White. A lot of people thought he was a bust after the first year... Here's his stats:

YEAR	TEAM 	G 	REC 	YDS 	AVG 	LNG 	TD 	FD 	FUM 	LOST
2005 ATL 16 29 446 15.4 54 3 23 1 1
2006 ATL 16 30 506 16.9 55 0 19 1 1
2007 ATL 16 83 1202 14.5 69 6 52 3 2
2008 ATL 16 88 1382 15.7 70 7 61 1 1
So let's agree to revisit this draft in another two years and see how it actually turned out?

Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 1:41 AM | Report abuse

++++They lost Washington, Springs, Evans, Philips, and Jason Taylor.

Replaced with Haynesworth, Hall, and Wynn.+++---PERICULUM


More like "they lost Washington, Springs, Evans, Phillips and a 2nd round draft pick."

Posted by: TheCork | March 27, 2009 1:41 AM | Report abuse

So, who ya got at #13, Cork? And where's Skippy's mock draft?

Re: Vinnie and the 2nd rounder, you gotta choose one line of attack. Either he threw away the draft pick that will prove to be the reason we miss the playoffs, or if we had a 2nd rounder he'd screw the pooch anyway. When you go both ways, it sounds like you go both ways.

Posted by: daggar | March 27, 2009 1:58 AM | Report abuse

I am not going to add this up again to show just how bad he performed ... I leave that as an exercise ...


Posted by: periculum | March 26, 2009 10:33 PM
=========================================
Here's an exercise: Try to remember the 9th game against Pittsburgh. Our offensive line broke down completely, and C.P. took a hairball helmet torpedo to the knee.

Remember? That's not breaking down because you can't last 16 games anymore. That's getting a knee injury during a game in which every Skins offensive play looked like Custer's Last Stand, with our guys in the unfortunate role of the 7th Cavalry.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 27, 2009 5:46 AM | Report abuse

thecork: "There were about 4-5 rookie receivers better than the ones Vinny carefuly selected last year. He also selected a CB who's too short and slow and a OL who could not even play teams. His drafted punter was cut. And he traded away THIS YEAR's #2 for a tapdancer.The Jackson wouldn't have succeeded for the Redskins contingent needs to get a CLUE, unless you mean Michael Jackson.."

THis is another of those entirely speculative arguments that find a home here. Another player on another team using another scheme had a good year. Your team didn't draft him, therefore your GM is an idiot.

Well, out GM may indeed be an idiot, but the above argument doesn't prove it.

DeSean Jackson had a terrific year for the Iggles. Due to injuries, he was the first WR ever to start the season for Andy Reid. He caught 62 balls for 912 yards and 2 TDs. He excelled even more as a PR. Great season, a lot better than anybody would have expected from a 49th draft choice.

That's right -- 48 teams whiffed on this guy. The reason? He stands a little above 5'9" and weighs around 175 pounds. They were worried about... well, you know what they were worried about.

Jackson spent most of the year as the #1 option on a team that gained 244.4 passing yards a game (6th, if I remember).

Santana Moss, the Skins top WR, caught 79 balls for 1044 yards and 6 TDs. That's on a team that averaged a bit over 189 yards a game in the air (23rd).

The point that some have made is that Jackson was playing Moss' position for Philadelphia. If Washington had drafted him, Moss would have been playing it.

Jackson would have been a third receiver at best. Mostly a durned good PR.

Jackson, an ace at going deep, wouldn't have had McNabb, an ace deep passer, throwing to him. He'd have worked with short-throwing Jason Campbell.

Same situation if the Skins had drafted the marvelous Eddie Royal, who may turn out better than Jackson. Eddie blossomed as a speed option for deep-throwing Jay Cutler opposite big, scary Brandon Marshall. GOt to start almost from day one. An ideal situation for him to blossom -- as Jackson had in Philly, And speedy Don Avery had where he wound up.

The Skins, meanwhile, drafted two WR because they were big. They felt they didn't really need another smaller, fast guy.

Neither played to speak of.

I'm beginning to suspect thecork is Michael Jackson.


Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 5:46 AM | Report abuse

Whoops, that should have been '31 other teams whiffed on him.'

The Schenectady Mambo Kings didn't have a pick that year.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 6:29 AM | Report abuse

With the speed of he and Moss, it will stretch defenses and open up underneath stuff for Kelly or Cooley. ...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | March 26, 2009 3:35 PM |

In addition to speed, Moss, like Larry Fitzgerald, has exceptional depth perception. If he is thrown a 40+ yard pass he will know precisely where it will land while most DBs will struggle to ascertain where the touchdown point is. Even with double coverage it is a reasonable gamble to run this kind of play more than the Skins did in 2008 (with double coverage on a deep pass to Moss, all that means is that there are two DBs rather than one that are clueless about where to be). One of the things JC needs to work on is developing a more Bret Favre-like attitude toward the vertical game (he has the arm strength) and work closely with Moss to develop a rapport with him on this type of play, double coverage be damned.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 7:29 AM | Report abuse

"One of the things JC needs to work on is developing a more Bret Favre-like attitude..."

So you want him to throw caution to the wind and just give it the ol' heave-ho? Somehow I think people would be complaining a lot more if JC threw a bunch of picks, like Favre did. Someone mentioned yesterday how that is the main complaint of Cowgirl fans about Romo.

"double coverage be damned."

Santana is not Steve Smith.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 7:48 AM | Report abuse

Statistically, Campbell was similar or better in most categories, yet the measure of success for the TEAMS was quite different.

What do you suppose that means?

Posted by: edvar | March 26, 2009 3:31 PM

Did you see SB XLIII? Did you see how Roethlisberger brought his team from behind in the waning moments of the game, with bodies draped all over him because, ahem, the Steelers, if you wants to look at stats, had a worse OL than the Skins, to score the winning TD? Very similar to what Eli Manning did the previous year and his stats weren't great that year either. What it means is this: If you are in business, stats such as profits and losses are everything and you work backward from there. In sports the score is everything and you work backward from there.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 7:50 AM | Report abuse

"In sports the score is everything and you work backward from there."

Yea, well in "team sports" you look at the team as a whole first and then work from there.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 7:54 AM | Report abuse

"One of the things JC needs to work on is developing a more Bret Favre-like attitude..."

So you want him to throw caution to the wind and just give it the ol' heave-ho? Somehow I think people would be complaining a lot more if JC threw a bunch of picks, like Favre did.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 7:48 AM |

Bret Favre=Gunslinger
Jason Campbell=Scaredy Cat

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 8:02 AM | Report abuse

"Jason Campbell=Scaredy Cat"

Oh, you're one of those. Nevermind.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 8:11 AM | Report abuse

ugh....shouldn't have gone back and read comments from last night....I wonder why some people follow the team sometimes, I really do. They OBVIOUSLY suck so incredibly bad, people must have better things to do with their time.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 8:20 AM | Report abuse

On a lighter note...F Memphis, my bracket is screwed.

Oh...and good game Duke! Way to keep it competitive.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 8:26 AM | Report abuse

lol Greg,

yeah - we can suck pretty bad. I'd love to see the development of this squad shut up some of the whiners.

Onion otherhand, if Zorn can't get these guys to play ball together, I'll be joining their chorus...

I'm sick of the talent blame-game. Every NFL team has a pretty even playing field. Some will twist it to their advantage (see NYG), others will piss away the opportunity (see CowPatties).

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 27, 2009 8:29 AM | Report abuse

"Did you see SB XLIII? Did you see how Roethlisberger brought his team from behind in the waning moments of the game, with bodies draped all over him because, ahem, the Steelers, if you wants to look at stats, had a worse OL than the Skins, to score the winning TD?"

Yes, he's an amazing QB. More like Favre in his prime than Peyton or Brady. I sure would like to see him in my backfield -- sacks, INTs, and all.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 8:34 AM | Report abuse

dikshutle: "I'm sick of the talent blame-game. Every NFL team has a pretty even playing field. Some will twist it to their advantage (see NYG), others will piss away the opportunity (see CowPatties). Posted by: DikShuttle"

Here's how I'd put it: every NFL team is woefully thin in one area or another, and marginal in a couple others. Some teams minimize this better.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 8:36 AM | Report abuse

Oh...and good game Duke! Way to keep it competitive.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who

I guess Duke coach should have been more focus on getting his team ready than talking about the President. LMAO! That is what his a** gets.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 27, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

"I guess Duke coach should have been more focus on getting his team ready than talking about the President. LMAO! That is what his a** gets."

Haha, it's always a good day when Duke loses. It was better last year though, as I had a friend personally dismantle them in the 2nd round.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 8:58 AM | Report abuse

I'll share in that schadenfreude, JM220.

With a hearty Nelson Muntz laugh.
~

Posted by: ifthethunderdontgetya | March 27, 2009 9:01 AM | Report abuse

"Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 5:46 AM"

Normally I agree with much of what you say and I always take Cork's posts with a grain of salt, but there's no possible way I can agree with this.

"Jackson spent most of the year as the #1 option on a team that gained 244.4 passing yards a game(6th, if I remember)."

Which tells you just how effective he was.

"The point that some have made is that Jackson was playing Moss' position for Philadelphia. If Washington had drafted him, Moss would have been playing it."

Nobody denies that. It doesn't mean he couldn't have seen as much time on the field as he did in Philadelphia, simply by beating out the very mediocre Randle El, much as he did with Baskett, Lewis, Pinkston, etc.

"Jackson would have been a third receiver at best."

HUGE, MASSIVE speculation that frankly would be very hard to defend, considering the consensus #1 offseason priority was to find an upgrade at the #2 WR spot. I know people here loved the "big" WR argument last year (which I personally think was elementary), but his size would have made zero difference considering the guy who supposedly would have played in front of him, ARE, was no bigger than he was -- just less productive.

"Jackson, an ace at going deep, wouldn't have had McNabb, an ace deep passer, throwing to him. He'd have worked with short-throwing Jason Campbell."

And part of the reason why Campbell was "short-throwing" was because the ONLY player on the roster with deep ability last season was Santana Moss. I can distinctly remember Campbell attempting long passes to Malcolm Kelly, James Thrash, and Randle El during the season, all of which fell incomplete, except for one, which was intercepted because ARE got beat to the ball.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 9:09 AM | Report abuse

"Eddie blossomed as a speed option for deep-throwing Jay Cutler"

Eddie Royal blossomed as a short and intermediate route-runner for Jay Cutler, and while he wasn't "big", he certainly was a "possession" WR. He had 91 receptions, but only at 10.8 yards per reception. That's far lower YPC than Jackson, far lower than Moss, lower than Randle El, and rivals Chris Cooley's production in that regard.

"And speedy Don Avery had where he wound up."

Donnie Avery played in one of the worst offenses in the league, under a dysfunctional system where the coach got fired midseason and the quarterbacks were shuffled in and out of the lineup, had to play behind a #1 WR in Torry Holt, wasn't even the 2nd option in the offense (with Stephen Jackson still there), yet still found a way to make his mark. It was hardly an ideal situation for him.

"The Skins, meanwhile, drafted two WR because they were big. They felt they didn't really need another smaller, fast guy."

Which speaks precisely to the ineptitude of the FO last season. It makes no difference what size the guy is, so long as he can play. Greg Jennings, Lee Evans, Wes Welker, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes -- all these guys would have helped the team tremendously.

The simple fact is that Devin Thomas did not produce this season, despite ample opportunity to do so. There isn't a single unbiased, non-Redskins fan that would even attempt to argue that Devin Thomas was on the same level as either of those guys last year. Not even close. They were well ahead of Randle El, let alone light-years ahead of Devin Thomas. He has miles to make up if he wants to be mentioned in the same breath.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

all I see is dust flying everywhere....cuz there ain't nothin left but dust....

this D. Thomas stuff is slowly approaching Mason level.......

given that, to my knowledge, a time machine hasn't been invented, and we can't go back in time, and RE-DRAFT Jackson, how about if we see what Thomas can do this year.........

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

"I guess Duke coach should have been more focus on getting his team ready than talking about the President.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 8:58 AM |

Duke is a very elitiist school and Obama has degrees from Columbia and Harvard, two more elitist schools. Plus his "body man", Reggie Love, played B-ball for Duke. But North Carolina is an important state for him. He moved it from Repub to Dem and he wants to keep it there. Hence his UNC pick, which will net out much better with NC voters than a Duke pick would. It's like taxes. If you have to raise them and hit up the rich, how many votes do you lose vs. an across the board tax increase? So first you diss the Duke B-ball team and then you diss their alums' wallets.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 9:25 AM | Report abuse

For the draft, I just hope/pray that Vinny stays away from “risky” picks. I know, I know, every pick is a risk…..but let’s hope he stays away from the high risk/high reward guys, and just goes for the sure bet, even if that pick might not be as sexy as the risky one. I love Rocky Mcintosh, but I don’t think we can count on the guy for a long career, or even for a full season. Fingers crossed…..same with Malcolm Kelly. IF he ever gets healthy enough to play, he could be beast, but what we keep hearing about his knee is quite worrisome. Apparently Devin Thomas falls into that category as well. Guys like Andre Davis and Orapko scare me because of what “many” people are questioning. Vinny seems to just ignore all the question marks about college guys (and some free agents) and takes them with hopes that the questions go away. 29 days and counting……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

So glad to hear that Thomas and JC17 are playing catch together. One can only hope that it pays off in the regular season.

Heard a story that Thomas wouldn't field autograph signings during rookie week (i guess) last season. Something to the effect that Thomas claimed the rookie bus was leaving (when it really wasn't) and it didn't help his image among the fans. Then the season transpired the way it did...

A couple of weeks ago he met with a fan. He's playing catch with JC17 during the offseason.

I think last season was not only humbling for us as skins fan but also for Thomas.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 9:30 AM | Report abuse

"You want an example? How about Roddy White. A lot of people thought he was a bust after the first year..."
Posted by: siris | March 27, 2009 1:41 AM

Good point, R. White was crucified here by fans and the press those first two years. Different story now tho...

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

What does everyone think about Derrick Brooks (LB) if we would sign for the veteran minimum?

Posted by: isnadd | March 27, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

Great interview between Doc Walker and Vinny right now on ESPN 980. Too bad I'm missing most of it due to work.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 27, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Haze,

Vinny looks at the tape. If Orakpo or A. Smith fell to 13, Vinny would def select one.

I hope its OT. If we took an OT at 13, wouldn't you think that all of the other OTs on team would step their game up? Does added first round talent motivate the other guys at that position?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

Great interview between Doc Walker and Vinny right now on ESPN 980. Too bad I'm missing most of it due to work.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 27, 2009 9:34 AM |

Thanks lisa,

I forgot all about it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

I think Derrick Brooks and Rocky would make for a good rotation at WLB.

We need LBs, that's for sure.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 9:43 AM | Report abuse

if someone could post some highlights from the interview, that'd be great....

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Hey AntonChigurh, don't misquote me. I didn't say anything about Obama.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

There will be a competition for Punt returner.

No kicker or punter in the draft.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Matthew, I can’t view the video at work. I too am hoping for OT at 13, or trade back if they can. I will get excited about whoever they pick, but I just hope that he stays away from guys with too many question marks. A guy like Cushing seems like a great, safe pick and fills a need. A Smith or Orapko could turn out to be awesome picks, but they just still seem to have question marks which Vinny seems to ignore. Hopefully the draft will take some twists and one of the other big time OT’s will still be there for us. I know I’m reaching here, but if the Eagles really want someone who is still there at 13 and offer both of their 1st rounders, or even a 1st and 2nd, I would hope that they take it.

And Isnadd, I would love to see D Brooks for the vet min. Especially if they don’t get a projected starting LB in the draft. Prolly won’t happen though.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

psps: "And part of the reason why Campbell was "short-throwing" was because the ONLY player on the roster with deep ability last season was Santana Moss."

And I'd argue that Jason Campbell is much better at the short and intermediate routes than at the deep ball. He didn't throw that many deep passes to Santana, either.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

Some notes from Doc Walker w/ Vinncy C:

On Aldridge pickup - Vinncy says he ran a 4.22 & that Mike Shannahan endorsed him big time, to Vinny.

Regarding FA's 'Vet Min only' - Vinny C says they will not pay any more than the Vet Min for FA's.

Punt Returns - ARE is going to have the opportunity. Doc doesn't think ARE's heart is into returning punts. Vinny says that young guys will have opportunity too, alluding to Dorsey/Aldridge.

RBs - Refers to the young small RBs as 'Sproles-type' guys. 'we're looking for more explosivness,' endorses Rock, Betts & CP.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

greg,

The full interview will be on espn980.com later check it out when you get home.

I only caught the last 10 minutes.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 9:54 AM | Report abuse

Hey AntonChigurh, don't misquote me. I didn't say anything about Obama.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 9:45 AM |

Nobody said you did. The only thing that was linked to you was this:

"I guess Duke coach should have been more focus on getting his team ready than talking about the President.

Explain where you were misquoted and sppecifically where I said you said anything about Obama.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 9:56 AM | Report abuse

psps:"[drafting two big WRs] ...speaks precisely to the ineptitude of the FO last season. It makes no difference what size the guy is, so long as he can play. Greg Jennings, Lee Evans, Wes Welker, Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes -- all these guys would have helped the team tremendously."

Not so. The Skins set out to help Jim Zorn implement an offense that requires certain types of receivers. That's why they drafted not just Thomas & Kelly, but Fred Davis. They were 'need' picks. The need was for more big, fast receivers.

Your argument -- that Steve Smith or Wes Welker would have helped the Skins -- begs the question. Any terrific receiver can help any team. You're assuming that Royal or Jackson would have gotten the same opportunity here that they got in Denver or Philly, and I'm saying they wouldn't.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Why is Doc on so early?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said they traded back last year because Mayo was gone. Trading back was the second option.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

thanks for the updates guys.

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 9:58 AM | Report abuse

Why is Doc on so early?

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 9:57 AM |

It's a special interview he did with Vinny last week, it's not live. His live show will be on normal time.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

This is a GREAT interview! I think this is a special edition of Inside The Redzone....not Doc's usual show.

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 27, 2009 9:59 AM | Report abuse

Said he expects the young WR's to play a lot this year.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

psps:"Donnie Avery played in one of the worst offenses in the league, under a dysfunctional system where the coach got fired midseason and the quarterbacks were shuffled in and out of the lineup, had to play behind a #1 WR in Torry Holt, wasn't even the 2nd option in the offense (with Stephen Jackson still there), yet still found a way to make his mark."

Actually, that can be a pretty good situation for a rookie. No pressure. Holt and QBs get the blame for the offensive struggles. Steve Jackson carries the real load. A rookie, if he plays well, can be the lone shining light in an otherwise dismal season.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said Fred Davis has been at Redskins camp two weeks prior to Offseason workouts, working out I assume?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

I guess Duke coach should have been more focus on getting his team ready than talking about the President. LMAO! That is what his a** gets.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | March 27, 2009 8:52 AM | Report abuse

"talking about the President" = Obama

watch your quotes.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

psps: "The simple fact is that Devin Thomas did not produce this season, despite ample opportunity to do so. There isn't a single unbiased, non-Redskins fan that would even attempt to argue that Devin Thomas was on the same level as either of those guys last year. Not even close. They were well ahead of Randle El, let alone light-years ahead of Devin Thomas. He has miles to make up if he wants to be mentioned in the same breath."

We'll have to disagree on this one. I don't think we've seen any of the three on the field long enough to determine their fate. This year we should. We can compare grades after the season's over.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

This morning, Dallas is looking like a rascist town per the story I posted yesterday about Ryan Moats being held up from watching his mother (in-law) take her last breath by that sucker cop.

F Dallas

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

4th,

I later read that the cop had actually pulled a gun on Moats, this is when his wife and others started walking to the ER.

Totally uncalled for. Watch the video. Is there any true threat on scene, aside from the cop himself?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 10:09 AM | Report abuse

F Dallas
Posted by: 4thFloor

I heard the audio this morning. I'm pretty sure if you opened up the trunk of his car there would have been a white sheet & hood in it somewhere. That was ridiculous and the fact that he is on paid leave of absence is even worse. Dallas taxpayers can't be too happy about that.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

the only reason they will only offer the vet/min is because thats all they have left under the cap.ceratzo is a moron,thomas stinks,kelleys broke down,and skins dont need davis.get a real gm,a real coach and build a team we can be proud of.

Posted by: DLESMonday | March 27, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Jeez DLESMonday,

did you wake up on the wrong day? Maybe monday you feel a little better...

You're right about the Vet Min. The Skins have little money and can't afford to offer any more than that.

'Let us pray not to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them.' ~ Tagore

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

Yoder-lay-hee-who: My mistake. It would have helped if a source had been listed for the quote you used in your post.

Posted by: AntonChigurh | March 27, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

QUITE A FEW MISHAPS? Name another?

2 drops that could have won the game at fedEx

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

Totally uncalled for. Watch the video. Is there any true threat on scene, aside from the cop himself?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 10:09 AM

I saw the video and indeed no threat.

If you are a police officer and someone who has their hazard lights on, cautiously runs a red light with no other cars insight, proceeds to the hospital, stops at the emergency room, and people come out running and yelling 'My mother is dying NOW!', you let them go. No questions ask.

If you want to verify, he too should have gone up and confirmed with hospital staff.

And for him to pull a gun out on the his wife and great aunt was utterly inhumane and thank GOD that he didn't shoot them as the ladies procedded to enter.

To hold up him and his father for 13 minutes and had a once in a lifetime opportunity taken from them is tragic. Especially since it took a nurse, a security gaurd, and a fellow officer to convince the guy what was being said is true.

I prob would have been shot myself, because I honestly wouldn't have waited for him. When my fam is in an emergency, nobody gets in the way, especially some rascist ass cop....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:23 AM | Report abuse

'...Vinny said Fred Davis has been at Redskins camp two weeks prior to Offseason workouts...'


It might be more important that Fred Davis 'gets it' than Thomas/Kelly.

Davis' speed and blocking skill really makes him more of an interesting case than the big receiver with the bad knees and the speed receiver who can't learn the playbook.


Posted by: MistaMoe | March 27, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

"You're assuming that Royal or Jackson would have gotten the same opportunity here that they got in Denver or Philly, and I'm saying they wouldn't."

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Nobody is saying Jackson would have had 900+ receiving yards for the Redskins. I'm saying he would have had well more than 150. No shot that I believe Randle El, who's never had a season in his career as productive as Jackson or Royal's rookie seasons, or James Thrash, which doesn't need explanation, would have hindered any decent WR worth his salt from making a contribution to the team.

"I don't think we've seen any of the three on the field long enough to determine their fate."

I never determined Thomas' or Jackson/Royal's fates. I said that if Thomas wants to be mentioned in the same breath as Jackson or Royal, he has miles to go. Jackson's and Royal's numbers rival that of Calvin Johnson's rookie season. Denver and Philly aren't sitting around praying they become a better option than Antwaan Randle El, they're sitting around expecting them to become the next Greg Jennings and Wes Welker.

Sorry, I just can't give out a pass to Thomas like that. Kelly's a different story.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

Only “good” cop story I have is one time my wife and I got pulled over for speeding on the way home from the beach; we were in a hurry because our dog had been throwing up all night, and we were rushing to the vet’s. The cop didn’t really seem to care, or “buy” what I was telling him. Then the dog threw up again all over the back seat and he let me go with a warning. I am 40 and white though. Never met a cop who wasn’t an arrogant dichead though….even those who are not white.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

'...Vinny said Fred Davis has been at Redskins camp two weeks prior to Offseason workouts...'

It might be more important that Fred Davis 'gets it' than Thomas/Kelly.

Davis' speed and blocking skill really makes him more of an interesting case than the big receiver with the bad knees and the speed receiver who can't learn the playbook.

Posted by: MistaMoe | March 27, 2009 10:25 AM |

Mista,

Good point this would allow you to spread out Cooley, or bring him out of the back field.

Cooley is not the best blocker anyway.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

As for Vet Mins, 3 out of the 4 were paid handsomely by Dan Snyder (Daniels, Wynn, and MWash) in their 1st contracts. So, they should show some love back and come to win the SB.

Your pockets are straight, but you have no jewlery on your fingers, the end game.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Regarding FA's 'Vet Min only' - Vinny C says they will not pay any more than the Vet Min for FA's.

Posted by: matthewvickers

This confirms the essence of my 'too many eggs, too few baskets' critique of the big $$ signings. No room for decent quality at a modest price elsewhere. Derrick Brooks would be a terrific add considering our issue at OLB. Another tackling machine at LB. But he'll get offers above the vet minimum.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 10:29 AM | Report abuse

remember that texas politician who made the comment about the Cowboys always beating the Redskins?

His view on global warming is: it isn't that hard to adapt to changing temperatures. Humans will adapt

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

dlhaze1 - 90% of cops are arrogant SJKs. But the one in the Moats story is just heartless. I think rascism showd in this one. Especially if you watch the video and read the verbal exchange....

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Shutdown Corner of Yahoo has the videos of the Ryan Moats debacle, for those who are interested.

I'm with you 4th. I could hold my patience for a little while if it's my in-law, but I wouldn't have blinked if it was my mother.

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 10:32 AM | Report abuse

Punt Returns - ARE is going to have the opportunity. Doc doesn't think ARE's heart is into returning punts. Vinny says that young guys will have opportunity too, alluding to Dorsey/Aldridge.

Posted by: matthewvickers

WHY?!!!! ARE proved PR isn't part of his game over multiple seasons. He's important as a WR and if we do some wildcat stuff, he'd be ideal since he was a terrific QB in college. Have ARE do stuff that uses his talents wisely. PR is not one of those.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 10:33 AM | Report abuse

In Maryland the State troopers are a-holes, but when you get down to County or City level some of them are pretty cool.

The cop in this case was clearly an idiot and probably racist.

I wouldn't throw all cops into this category, they do a very dangerous and thankless job.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

There is certainly good reason to hold off on the criticism of a guy like Devin Thomas. Sure he acts like an idiot, but most young, hyped receivers do.
1. He didn't get plugged into a functioning passing game, ala Desean Jackson.
2. The past has shown that receivers who work hard, and have the talent to be a high pick tend to work out in the long run, bad attitude or not.
3. Among people who's opinion count much more than mine, he's extremely talented, and has the tools to be a #1 receiver.
4. Scouting reports before the draft about Thomas said things like "raw prospect, will need refinement" and "you might not see any production out of him his first year", here a good one:

"Devin Thomas is just now "scratching the surface" of what should turn out to be a good career at the next level…scouts have to like what they see from Thomas thus far in his development, but more importantly like what they foresee in the future"

Posted by: showell81 | March 27, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said they traded back last year because Mayo was gone. Trading back was the second option.

Posted by: Flounder21

I HATE THIS!!! If Mayo was your guy, then make a move and get him. Otherwise, you're just trying to tell us how smart you are because you had the right guy in mind. Or you're lying Vinny.

I'm going with lying.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 10:37 AM | Report abuse

The Moats story is an insane. I was outraged just reading the espn scroll account.

D-Thom fits into my overall philosophy with vinnyskins "Really (really!)hope it works out, don't think it will"

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Also on Thomas....
Consider this. His first year at a new level, when he went from juco to Michigan St, he only caught 6 passes for 90 yards, while they had very high expectations. It wasn't until he adjusted the next year that he hit big numbers.

Posted by: showell81 | March 27, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

I HATE THIS!!! If Mayo was your guy, then make a move and get him. Otherwise, you're just trying to tell us how smart you are because you had the right guy in mind. Or you're lying Vinny.

I'm going with lying.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 10:37 AM |

How was he going to jump into the top 10 to get Mayo, he would have had to trade a ton of picks.

Then you guys would have been crying about that.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

4th is preaching the sermon this glorious morning...

wholeheartedly, motherF the cops, all day, every damn day...

the incident with Moats is just reason # 1,328,714 to hate those pric_s.

I NEVER met a cop I liked or respected, black or white.

sometimes, the black cops are worse.

Posted by: RedDMV | March 27, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Fred Davis looked pretty good toward the end of the season. Lining up with 2 TE's, as Gibbs did a lot, gives us the big target and helps the O-line in blocking.

I think Thomas and Davis will have significant contributions this year. If Kelly can get healthy, so will he.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

WR Thomas Looks to Turn It Around

turn it around? turn it around? you can't turn around a ZERO! cuz opposite of zero is zero. or -infinity or +infinity.

cindy, please tell me that one of the many buyouts that wapo recently gave out was to wilbon aka dead weight. c'mon! what is he bringing to the table? nothing! begining to like mike wise, never really disliked him but he seems like a good writer and actually writes about stuff people care about and tom is a genius! what the heck does wilbon do? save money buy him out!

Posted by: dealer1 | March 27, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

hi greg! and whatever cL says i concur!

Posted by: dealer1 | March 27, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

deal, you have some nerve..how many wideouts did the Lions burn before they finally hit on Calvin Johnson??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

lol, you got me...dangit....

LIONS SUCK.....how about them apples then deal......

Posted by: BeantownGreg | March 27, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

"Also on Thomas....
Consider this. His first year at a new level, when he went from juco to Michigan St, he only caught 6 passes for 90 yards, while they had very high expectations. It wasn't until he adjusted the next year that he hit big numbers."

Well let's hope the same trend continues. As I said, he still has a long way to go.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Denver and Philly aren't sitting around praying they become a better option than Antwaan Randle El, they're sitting around expecting them to become the next Greg Jennings and Wes Welker.

Posted by: psps23

expectations and jumping to conclusions are problems. I was HOPING these 2nd rounders would have better years, not EXPECTING.

I also read all the WR scouting reports last year and I would have been upset if we drafted a WR under 6'1". It wasn't hard to make a case for Royal, local guy, biggest strongest hands, but 5'11". Jackson fast, PR, 5'11". Avery complete 5'11".

you can teach a big guy to run patterns, but you can't teach a pattern runner to be big.

2nd year in the same system, give YOUR team a chance

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Cops are all just the guys in high school who were the tough guys, and once high school was over they realized that they didn't have anyone to impress anymore.

So they became cops so they could continue endorsing how tough and authoritative they are.

Its mostly a meathead thing, but in this case it was probably a racist thing too.

Posted by: Rypien11 | March 27, 2009 10:56 AM | Report abuse

Yo longtime dealer, welcome back you crazy bastard!

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

Plus, as fun as it would be, we don't need them (Thomas, et al) to be great. We just need 1 or 2 more contributers in the passing attack.

1 more TD every other week could make a huge difference. Our D was OUTSTANDING last year and UNSUNG with no pro bowlers. Fletch and boys have plenty of motivation.

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

I wouldn't throw all cops into this category, they do a very dangerous and thankless job.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 10:34 AM

I concur. I choose to view each individual seperate. That's how you aviod racisim. Just think if we weren't on RI, would we really be conversing to each other in person? (Going back to my improbable meeting with SMACK at wiz game 3 years ago as I know I came off harsh to him cuz I didn't know why the hell he was coming up to me. I forget about RI once I leave the computer)

But you can only go off experince. My experinces are at about 90% SJKs.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

speak for yo self 4th....I am crazy gregarious and talk lots of folk on a daily basis.....

Posted by: chrislarry | March 27, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

"Just think if we weren't on RI, would we really be conversing to each other in person?"
-------------------------

I for one, can't stand any of you...

Posted by: RedDMV | March 27, 2009 11:03 AM | Report abuse

i got pulled over for drinking mineral water. i guess the bottle looks like a vodka bottle? i guess people swig vodka straight from the bottle while they driving?

i showed the guy the bottle and he still performed a field sobriety test, no sorry for the inconvenience, he was mad i wasn't drunk.

my first thought was, "what if i was a black?", "or brown?"

i hope we can change

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

But you can only go off experince. My experinces are at about 90% SJKs.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 10:59 AM |

Agreed. Not every cop is a turd. Most of them though. While I accept that cops have to have a defensive and VERY cautious mentality when on the job, they don't have to act like a complete d-bag when you appraoch them on the street to ask a question, or ask for directions, etc...

Posted by: dlhaze1 | March 27, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

How was he going to jump into the top 10 to get Mayo, he would have had to trade a ton of picks.

Then you guys would have been crying about that.

Posted by: Flounder21

So what you're saying is that Mayo was unrealistic. Then why is Vinny spewing about trading down after Mayo went. If it wasn't going to happen, why claim he was the guy you wanted?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

but yes being cop is difficult job, for sure

these people see a lot of accidents and violence

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Cl - If I had the time, I would try out my hypothesis......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

WTF does SJK mean?

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 11:07 AM | Report abuse

"you can teach a big guy to run patterns, but you can't teach a pattern runner to be big."

Yep, that's what they said about Reggie Williams, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Michael Jenkins, and the dozens of other "raw" physical freaks that were drafted high with project written all over them. Me, I'd prefer to take a guy who gets it upstairs first and live with the fact that, hey, this guy may never be Terrel Owens.

To be clear, I haven't given up on Thomas and still expect him to contribute. But anybody that tries to compare him to DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal as they stand right now is about as insane as a Pittsburgh fan trying to compare Rashard Mendenhall to Chris Johnson, a Jets fan trying to compare Vernon Gholston to Jerod Mayo, or a Detroit fan trying to compare Gosder Cherilus to Ryan Clady.

Posted by: psps23 | March 27, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:12 AM | Report abuse

Wynn can play DT, as can Daniels.

So, you probably need one additional guy to be in the mix ... Jackson and Wilson are exclusively pass down DE's.

So, it might make sense to convert Jackson and Wilson to linebacker after drafting a DE.

Posted by: periculum

i agree it would be nice to get a promising DE and/or OLB in the draft. Draft guys are 50/50. I don't know enough about wilson and jackson to say they can convert to OLB.

I also think we need an OT more than anything

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

So what you're saying is that Mayo was unrealistic. Then why is Vinny spewing about trading down after Mayo went. If it wasn't going to happen, why claim he was the guy you wanted?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:04 AM |

There no certain thing in the draft, Mayo could have fallen but he didn't so you move on to the next plan.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

There no certain thing in the draft, Mayo could have fallen but he didn't so you move on to the next plan.
Posted by: Flounder21

i like this accepting situations and moving forward

plan a thomas is great out of the gate
plan b thomas is better this year than last

Posted by: pabrian2003 | March 27, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

Thanks 4th.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to take a SJK!

Posted by: matthewvickers | March 27, 2009 11:20 AM | Report abuse

"WTF does SJK mean?"

haha, thanks for asking matthew...I was wondering the same thing

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Vinny said they traded back last year because Mayo was gone. Trading back was the second option.

Posted by: Flounder21

How was he going to jump into the top 10 to get Mayo, he would have had to trade a ton of picks.

Posted by: Flounder21

From these comments, the initial plan had no chance. Mayo wasn't going to fall 10 spots!! Vinny wasn't dealing with reality ... which is part of the problem

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

"Nnana Mushmushi"
Misremembered name of Oakland Raiders CB, Nnamdi Asomugha, who may be a better free agent CB pickup because he is a great CB on a crappy team (as opposed to Asante Samuel, a good CB on a great team)."

Best entry for RI lingo

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

From these comments, the initial plan had no chance. Mayo wasn't going to fall 10 spots!! Vinny wasn't dealing with reality ... which is part of the problem

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:23 AM |

zce,

We can argue all day, but it's over and Vinny is the GM so live with it.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

From these comments, the initial plan had no chance. Mayo wasn't going to fall 10 spots!! Vinny wasn't dealing with reality ... which is part of the problem

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:23 AM

Could be he tried to move up but did not get any takers. All we can do is speculate or assume...such as...

Posted by: Curzon417 | March 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

hello sirs cL and greg!

greg, c'mon matt millen

Posted by: dealer1 | March 27, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Just got this email from our IT people:

The Conficker worm -- also known as Downadu -- is set to come alive on April 1, April Fool's Day. In an event that hits the computer world only once every few years, security experts are racing against time to mitigate the impact of a bit of malware which is set to wreak havoc on a hard-coded date on April 1, 2009.

Conficker first bubbled up in late 2008 and began making headlines in January as known infections topped 9 million computers. Now in its third variant, Conficker C, the worm has grown incredibly complicated, powerful, and virulent... though no one is quite sure exactly what it will do when D-Day arrives

Conficker is a blended threat relying on numerous attack vectors, ranging from brute force, password-guessing techniques to infection via USB sticks, in order to replicate and spread throughout a network.

What's known so far is that on April 1, all infected computers will come under the control of a master machine located somewhere across the web, at which point anything's possible. Will the zombie machines become denial of service attack pawns, steal personal information, wipe hard drives, or simply manifest more traditional malware pop-ups and extortion-like come-ons designed to sell you phony security software? No one knows.

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

From these comments, the initial plan had no chance. Mayo wasn't going to fall 10 spots!! Vinny wasn't dealing with reality ... which is part of the problem

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:23 AM |

zce,

We can argue all day, but it's over and Vinny is the GM so live with it.

Posted by: Flounder21

I'm saying that Vinny is probably not being truthful here -- he's saying something hoping the fan base will believe he knows how to spot talent. A good GM needs to understand its a poker game in many respects, but rewriting history isn't really a part of that.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

4th, your IT people have a nerdy sense of humor.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 11:38 AM | Report abuse

this new thingie ate my comment!

Posted by: dealer1 | March 27, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I think that they give cops special courses in how to be SJKholes down here in the great state of..

It's actually the reverse of Maryland, though, usually the State Troopers here are pretty reasonable - I've gotten warnings from them, or let off when they realize that I'm not a dangerous felon, but the local cops can be downright evil.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | March 27, 2009 11:44 AM | Report abuse

I believe Vinny for the most part.

You guys try to knock Vinny all the time, but to me, he's a legit scout guy. When you hear him talk about the draft, he is always gaurded and never tries to tip his hand. NEVER. He does what's best for the team within the circumstances he is given.

It only makes sense to say he wanted Mayo a year later, because if he said it right after the draft, than MWash would have been upset that were trying to replace him. Sure you can say he is only saying that now because he won Def ROY honors, but then our opinions defer....

He doesn't reach for players. If a player isn't there that you like, you make moves. He made a move.

You can knock him, IMHO, for drafting 3 pass catchers in the 2nd round, and maybe reaching for Chad Rinehart. But, it's still best to wait.

This year, we need to see if Rocky will be a bust or not. Ofcourse, I think this is his contract year, though......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Or as Cl would say, 'You CAN do whateves you want'...

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

"this new thingie ate my comment!"

It was delicious.

I'm taking a wait and see approach when it comes to Vinny. One of the worst things you can do is reach for a player, and I can't really find an example where he has (Rhinehart is a strong possibility as 4th mentioned). The true gamble might be Kelly, if his knee never decides to cooperate. When healthy the kid has serious talent. Too bad the last time he was healthy he was wearing an Oklahoma uni.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Though I gave a good report on Vinny, he indeed has to do something about those eyes of his. They are pretty scary when he stares straight at you........

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 11:59 AM | Report abuse

4th - was that sarcasm? I think I usually buy wot ur sellin' most of the time... But how is picking receivers when there were such GLARING holes on the lines (both O & D) last year doing "what's best for the team"??

I get the feeling he was trying to brand the team for his own career progress and may have inadvertently shot himself in the foot. While the jury is still out on their final ability to contribute, it certainly didn't look good last year in receiver land.

And SJK (Sorry Jack's Kids) is something we use in place of possibly offensive language, in deference to "Jack's Kids" who would possibly be perusing the blog at any time.

This can all be found on the RI Wiki...

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 27, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Though I gave a good report on Vinny, he indeed has to do something about those eyes of his. They are pretty scary when he stares straight at you........

Posted by: 4thFloor

And his laugh is equally scary....

Posted by: Lisa_R | March 27, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

FROM THE BEAST BLOG ON ESPN

"Kiper currently has the Washington Redskins taking Alabama offensive tackle Andre Smith with the No. 13 pick overall, which would be risky based on his recent showing at the combine. I know the Redskins covet defensive end Brian Orakpo, but McShay has him going to the Browns at No. 5."

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Hi Lisa.

long time no blog tagetha

Posted by: DikShuttle | March 27, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I know the Redskins covet defensive end Brian Orakpo,...

Orakpo had some pretty negative things said about him after his pro day. I was really surprised. Now, how much of that is from scouts just hoping he drops a few spots I don't know.

Posted by: will_ga | March 27, 2009 12:13 PM | Report abuse

From the Vinny and Doc interview:


On how Albert Haynesworth differs from previous free agent signee Dana Stubblefield:

Cerrato: "What was interesting, when I was with San Fran, we came and played a Monday night here Stubby's first year and all he did was, he was taking all the players around before the game and saying 'See my suite up there? I got that.'

"He was just fat and happy. He got paid and that was it.

"The thing is, Albert, he says, I want to be the best. When people talk about defensive tackles in this league, I want to be mentioned. I want to go to the Hall of Fame. That is what he wants to do. You notice the number he wears. He's from Tennessee, and it's Reggie White's number and, Doc, I was in San Fran when Reggie was a free agent, when he went to Green Bay. And we were trying to get him and he went to Green Bay. I think he was older than Albert is at this time and what he did to that defense and what he did to that team...

Walker: "Super Bowl."

Cerrato: "Right."


Heard it here first. Buy your tickets now.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

FROM THE BEAST BLOG ON ESPN

"Kiper currently has the Washington Redskins taking Alabama offensive tackle Andre Smith with the No. 13 pick overall, which would be risky based on his recent showing at the combine. I know the Redskins covet defensive end Brian Orakpo, but McShay has him going to the Browns at No. 5."

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 12:07 PM |

yoder,

I don't care if the guy sh!t on the field, and rubbed it on his face at the combine.

The combine is a joke and doesn't measure true playing ability.

He was dominate for 4 years in the SEC, the best College Football in America with the best pass rushers.

The guy can play T all that other little sh!t means nothing.

Posted by: Flounder21 | March 27, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

beep beep

Posted by: zcezcest1 | March 27, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Flounder,

I agree, I would love to have Smith. The running game would be damn near unstoppable. I think all these reports on his combine are just smoke and mirrors. I think he'll be gone within the top 6 picks. We can hold out hope he slips to 13 though.

Posted by: Yoder-lay-hee-who | March 27, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Hey, he did draft a Gaurd and a DE, knowing both were future projects. and he signed 4 RFA Olineman and 2 RFA Dlineman. Going into the draft, no one was screaming for us to draft Oline. That's just revisionist history. Last year priorities were DEnd, WR, then Oline (If I remember correctly)...

He was counting on the line to hold for 1 or 2 more year, but it didn't. A gamble that didn't hit.

As JLaC knocks DThomas and praises DJackson, AND criticizes for taking 3 pass catchers, including Sleepy Davis, let's see what he right before the draft....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/positional-review-wrte.html

"Problem is, there is no sure thing in this draft. Not even close. If anything, guys like Jackson are slipping and some believe there might not even be a receiver taken in the first round. It's part of the reason why I see the Skins trying like heck to trade down, because you still might get to pick between Sweed, Hardy or Thomas at pick 35-40. I love Hardy's size and would lean his way, though Thomas could be very effective in this system as well.

....................

As for tight ends, Chris Cooley is the man and will be for the foreseeable future. Todd Yoder has stabilized the depth - could this be the year when Brian Kozlowski is no longer on late-season speed dial? - but finding a young potential backup is something the team will try to address in the next few years as well. There are usually ample intriguing prospects at this position on the street after the draft - hence the run on scouting former college basketball players in recent years, since their frame and athleticism mesh with what you look for out of a TE.
"

See he should have approved of ATLEAST 2 out of the 3 pass catchers post draft posts if his writings were consistent and could only knock him for choosing Kelly because of medical issues. Otherwise, Vinny choose 1 person he liked and picked a TE with said qualities.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | March 27, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

I liked what I saw out of Devin Thomas. His problem was Zorn not using him or any other rookies in his INEPT offense...

Posted by: LongTimeSkinsFan | March 27, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

BOTTOM LINE: Except for CP, Cooley, Moss, Haynesworth and Hall, anyone on this team can be upgraded. And even Moss and Hall can stay on the field if a better player takes their spot. I'd say take any game breaker available, draft or free agency.

Everyone saw the Ravens make a hell of a run with an awesome defense and a mediocre offense. We all know defense will keep you in games you shouldn't win. We had the 4th overall best defense without much help from a 19th overall offense. So, getting improvement on any side of the ball is a bonus. There's more holes to fill now than what can be done by one draft.

Everyone is begging for a revamped offensive line. But come 13th pick, if the choice is between the next decent offensive lineman or the next pro bowler CB/WR/DE/LB, etc., I hope we get the pro bowler.

A team doesn't draft a Randy Moss without first spending years drafting duds. You have to go for the playmakers, the gamebreakers and take high risk, high reward chances until you have the talent to build a team around. I hope the skins do not pass up on talent because we focus too much on one or two positions.

Posted by: tokogasy | March 27, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

"I don't care if the guy sh!t on the field, and rubbed it on his face at the combine."

I'm trying to get this picture out of my head...

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"To be clear, I haven't given up on Thomas and still expect him to contribute. But anybody that tries to compare him to DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal as they stand right now is about as insane as a Pittsburgh fan trying to compare Rashard Mendenhall to Chris Johnson, a Jets fan trying to compare Vernon Gholston to Jerod Mayo, or a Detroit fan trying to compare Gosder Cherilus to Ryan Clady.Posted by: psps23"

If you haven't given up on Thomas, then I'd hate to see how you treat somebody you HAVE given up on...

Posted by: Samson151 | March 27, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

"[Jason Jones]...Vinnie also passed up on him ... they could have used the original 2nd round pick on him and the 1st round on Sam Baker. Surely both would be starting for this team as this Jason had 5 sacks, 3 fumbles force and 31 tackles as backup with Tennessee. Beats out all of our starters!!!!!!!!!Posted by: periculum"

More of this invalid speculative argument. In the first place, you can't take as given that Jones' production for the Skins would have duplicated what he did with the Titans. For one thing, no Albert Haynesworth. For another, the TItans were clearly the better team. In fact, they easily could have won the whole thing.

Fortunately this tendency to flawed reasoning is harmless because nobody is paying attention anyway. God forbid anybody in pro football is dumb enough to judge a GM on the players he decided NOT to draft. THere'd be a long line of GMs in the unemployment line.

Posted by: Samson151 | March 28, 2009 7:29 AM | Report abuse

It would be folly IMHO to do anything @ wideout this year, either through the draft or FA. We made our bed (or, @ least Vinny did) @ that position last yr. in the draft, and this year we'll have a pretty good idea of what we have by season's end.

Sure, if this were an uncapped league like MLB, it would make sense to pick up a guy like Holt, but given all the other pressing needs on the team and the limited cap space (not to mention draft choices), other priorities must take precedence. Besides, one of the (many) problems with Snyderatto's personnel moves has been a lack of patience, and panicking based on last year's poor production @ WR would just be more of the same.

Let's see if one or both 2nd yr WRs can step it up. If so, great, and if not, it'll be just one more piece of evidence Snyder will have to pretend not to see if he's gonna keep his little b*tt-buddy around to make horrible personnel moves and run our beloved 'skins into the ground.

Who knows, mb one day Snyder will wake up and get a real GM...and mb the tooth fairy and Easter bunny will show up to dance a jig for me on my birthday!! :-/

Posted by: hogmeister | March 29, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

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