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Redskins lag in retention of last year's players

You need take only a passing glance at the Redskins' roster to realize that some big-time changes were made these past few months. But ESPN.com's Mike Sando has put together a nifty chart that quantifies just how much turnover the Redskins and every other team in the league have experienced since the 2009 season concluded.

So where do the Redskins rank? Sando found that only three teams have a lower retention rate than the Redskins: the Cardinals, Lions and Seahawks.

From Week 17, Sando's chart shows that the Redskins have brought back 19 reserves, 18 starters and eight players who were on injured reserve. For the sake of comparison, the team with the highest retention rate - the Vikings -- brought back 28 reserves, 22 starters and one player who was on injured reserve.

In addition to getting rid of nearly the entire coaching staff, the Redskins also changed several key specialists, including their punter, long snapper, kick returner and punt returner. It will be even more interesting to see how these numbers change in the first week of September, when teams whittle their rosters down to 53 players.

By Rick Maese  |  June 7, 2010; 1:30 PM ET
 
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Next: Rabach now the veteran on Redskins' offensive line

Comments

I'd say this might be a good thing LOL.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 7, 2010 1:39 PM | Report abuse

...and the sad part is that we've probably not purged the roster enough...

Posted by: p1funk | June 7, 2010 1:50 PM | Report abuse

Why say we are "lagging" in this? Maybe, we have "jumped ahead!"

Posted by: mmck | June 7, 2010 1:56 PM | Report abuse

cooley:
"...and I've seen balls from Donovan and they're not where I expect them to be."
i think this is cooley being polite. i know i've seen some passes in the dirt from donova. i'm glad we got donovan, but i'm afraid that along with his excellent leadership skills and experience we'll have to put up with some occasional innacuracy.
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | June 7, 2010 1:29 PM

I know more than several Eagles fans who actually have their heads on straight, and this is their number one reason for not being upset that Mcnabb is gone. I have watched many an Eagles loss where if he had thrown a good ball instead of into the dirt a few times they might have pulled out the win (throughout the whole game, not just potential game winning drives).

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

He puts them in the dirt sometimes, but in the WCO that he was groomed to play in, one of the key things is to get the ball out quickly.

I think some of those dirt passes are the result of that quick trigger.

In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather have a QB who gets the ball out quickly, but puts some of them in the dirt over a QB that clutches clutches clutches clutches and takes a sack...not that I'm referring to anyone in particular, of course.

Posted by: p1funk | June 7, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

cooley:
"...and I've seen balls from Donovan and they're not where I expect them to be."
i think this is cooley being polite. i know i've seen some passes in the dirt from donova. i'm glad we got donovan, but i'm afraid that along with his excellent leadership skills and experience we'll have to put up with some occasional innacuracy.
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | June 7, 2010 1:29 PM

I know more than several Eagles fans who actually have their heads on straight, and this is their number one reason for not being upset that Mcnabb is gone. I have watched many an Eagles loss where if he had thrown a good ball instead of into the dirt a few times they might have pulled out the win (throughout the whole game, not just potential game winning drives).

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 1:59 PM | Report abuse

I know that this is focusing on about 1% of the content of this post about what is generally a good thing (roster turnover on a 4-12 team), but did Ethan Albright EVER make a mistake as a Redskin? I used to marvel at his consistency and what I came to consider his freakishly good play at a position that usually is only noticed after a mistake. He frequently was near the tackle of a punt returner...clogging up a running lane. You rarely see that from other snappers. Even though the Skins have had their fair share of trouble on field goals, invariably the replay showed that the snap was good.
I don't know if he retired, the new regime had someone else in mind, or he is simply a casualty of the age/salary equation...but this is one bit of roster turnover that is probably not going to make the Redskins better in 2010.

Posted by: MColeman51 | June 7, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

Yeah P1, I’ll take Mcnabb over Campbell any day, but I won’t be surprised if we are up here a lot of Mondays saying that “if he just completed those two passes that he threw into the dirt when the guys were wide open………..”

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse

So a 4-12 team is getting rid of a lot of its players. And this is news . . . why?

Posted by: rbpalmer | June 7, 2010 2:05 PM | Report abuse

Noticed some criticism of the NBA playoffs. I have a better playoff approach. There will be fewer games, but it makes the regular season much more meaningful and the playoffs more watchable.

9 teams from each conference make the playoffs.

For the first 3 rounds last 1 game each, the top 3 seeds get a bye for those rounds.

The 1st round is a knockout round. The round is one game. 6 hosts 9, 7 hosts 8. Winner moves on, loser is gone.

The second round, also a knockout round. 4 hosts 7/8 winner, 5 hosts 6/9 winner. One game. Winner moves on, loser gone.

Round 3 is the between two winners of round 2. Again, its 1 game. The winner of the knockout rounds gets the #4 seed.

The first 3 rounds take 1 week.

Then its the usual 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3.

The benefits are several. First, its shortens a season that is already too long. The playoffs won't get as out of whack. Each game in the knockout round is effectively a game 7, always more interesting that a game 1 or 2.

Further, and this is a big part of it -- the regular season matters!! A top 3 seed is a huge advantage -- you get a bye into the round of 8 (the NFL provides a bye as well to its best teams). A 4/5 seed means you get to avoid the first knockout round. A 6/7 seed means you get to host the knockout game -- a very significant advantage in a 1 game playoff. Finally, with 9 playoff teams, there will be a few more teams playing for a playoff spot.

The other step I'd like to see, and I didn't include this in my suggestions above, is that the highest seeded team gets to select its opponent from all the lower seeded teams. This should apply in every round. In every sport.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 2:09 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 2:09 PM

I feel kind of bad for the guys on the Lakers and Celtics…..those guys still have to go to work every day, while guys on teams like the wizards started their summer vacations over a month and a half ago……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Yeah P1, I’ll take Mcnabb over Campbell any day, but I won’t be surprised if we are up here a lot of Mondays saying that “if he just completed those two passes that he threw into the dirt when the guys were wide open………..”

Posted by: dlhaze1

Agreed. McNabb is an upgrade over Campbell. But he isn't Peyton or Brady or Brees.

McNabb has had a top 10 QB rating 5 times (4th was his best finish) in his career, His early success (Pro Bowls) were largely based on being a good QB and an effective runner. The effective runner is gone, but he's still a good QB.

My bigger expectation is that Shanahan will transform this offense. Coaches matter in the NFL more than any other sport. For one of the rare times in the past couple decades, week in week out, our guy on the sideline will be better than their guy.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 2:18 PM | Report abuse

I feel kind of bad for the guys on the Lakers and Celtics…..those guys still have to go to work every day, while guys on teams like the wizards started their summer vacations over a month and a half ago……

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 2:16 PM |

I'm sure those extra playoff bonuses they get, ease the pain a little.

Posted by: ga8085 | June 7, 2010 2:23 PM | Report abuse

don't know if he retired, the new regime had someone else in mind, or he is simply a casualty of the age/salary equation...but this is one bit of roster turnover that is probably not going to make the Redskins better in 2010.

Posted by: MColeman51 | June 7, 2010 2:04 PM

Totally agree MC51 I don't recall the Red Snapper making costly mistakes. I wish him well

Posted by: wireman65 | June 7, 2010 2:24 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan went 13-3 with Jake Plummer, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Plummer also holds the Broncos single season yardage and TD records.

I imagine Donovan will be just fine under Shanny, seeing that Donovan is twice the QB Plummer was.

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

peace

Posted by: Rod5 | June 7, 2010 2:30 PM | Report abuse

I wish we led the league in retention lag after last year.

Posted by: Rod5 | June 7, 2010 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Or maybe I should say I wish we were the laggingest team in the league, regarding retention.

Posted by: Rod5 | June 7, 2010 2:34 PM | Report abuse

I feel kind of bad for the guys on the Lakers and Celtics…..those guys still have to go to work every day, while guys on teams like the wizards started their summer vacations over a month and a half ago……

Posted by: dlhaze1

funny, I don't watch much pro basketball, not even the playoffs. Which is a big change from many years ago. When I started to wonder why, I figured out one part of it was the regular season seemed unimportant, especially to the teams they knew they were in the playoffs. So I stopped watching the regular season. Then when the playoffs came around, I realized that, since I hadn't followed the regular season, I had no passion for the playoffs.

One of the things I like about football and baseball is that you have to have a good season to make the playoffs, and if you have a really good season in football, you get a bye -- a major reward for success. Which is one reason regular season football games hold up much more interest than regular season in other sports.

In pro hoops, when was the last time a team not seeded in the conference top 4 won a title? Seems so much of the NBA playoffs are 'meaningless drama". Unlike the NFL or NHL, where lower seeds have gone a long way, and even won championships.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 2:37 PM | Report abuse


$nyder = No Retention

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: iH8dallas
I imagine Donovan will be just fine under Shanny, seeing that Donovan is twice the QB Plummer was.

Mcnabb is toast, and you can book it. With the o-line in front of him he won't make it through mid season.


Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Hey everyone, here is a fun question for yall.

Since when did assistant head coaches for the skins start dressing like they were on star trek TNG?

http://www.redskins.com/gen/coaches/Bobby_Turner.jsp

http://www.realbollywood.com/news/up_images/11112462.jpg


Posted by: alex35332 | June 7, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

^ Totally agree with this. Used to watch NBA but experienced the same fall out. Those same factors are also what makes CFB and NCAA bball so meaningful and entertaining. In Bball you play the season to get seeded, no 16 has ever beaten a 1. In CFB the regular season can be looked at like a playoff where one loss matters greatly.

Posted by: Stu27 | June 7, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: iH8dallas
I imagine Donovan will be just fine under Shanny, seeing that Donovan is twice the QB Plummer was.

Mcnabb is toast, and you can book it. With the o-line in front of him he won't make it through mid season.


Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I'm ashamed to have the same last name as you

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 2:51 PM | Report abuse


@ iH8dallas

You're to critical my man. It's just a game.

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 2:59 PM | Report abuse

My guess is Albright is gone because he's too specialized, not because of age or performance. Shanahan probably wants a long snapper that can do other things or backup other positions.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Hessone has a very valid point. McNabb has never been know as a durable QB. I cant remember the last time he made it though a season w/o some sort of leg injury(mainly hamstings).
So far the O-line that all will agree was terrible last year hasnt changes that much, personnel wise not scheme wise, we replaced a vet with a rookie at LT and a second year starter with a journeyman RT, all the others are the same...
When he does get hurt nicked up whatev people are gonna be upset to see Rex as our 2 deep.

Posted by: Stu27 | June 7, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

@hessone- you're too pessimistic, a definite Debbie Downer

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Since when did assistant head coaches for the skins start dressing like they were on star trek TNG?

Posted by: alex35332 | June 7, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Put a viser on coach Turner and he's the spitting image of Jordi!
Also, I think Snyder's short enough to be a Ferengi!

Posted by: monk811 | June 7, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse

on the retention front, that's what you get when you have:

1. A group of people who underachieved (bye Anthony Montgomery and Levi Jones)
2. another group that were getting overblown paychecks (bye ARE and Fred Smoot)
3. Another group of people well past their prime (bye Chris Samuels and Randy Thomas)

Agree with most of the guys Shanahan let go. Its the ones he's brought in that I question.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse

4-12.

Posted by: clandestinetomcat | June 7, 2010 3:13 PM | Report abuse


@ iH8dallas

You take the last 10 years of $nyder at the helm and that would make me a realist. Have fun in la-la land. 4-12

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

cooley:
"...and I've seen balls from Donovan and they're not where I expect them to be."
i think this is cooley being polite. i know i've seen some passes in the dirt from donova. i'm glad we got donovan, but i'm afraid that along with his excellent leadership skills and experience we'll have to put up with some occasional innacuracy.
Posted by: walter-in-fallschurch | June 7, 2010 1:29 PM

I know more than several Eagles fans who actually have their heads on straight, and this is their number one reason for not being upset that Mcnabb is gone. I have watched many an Eagles loss where if he had thrown a good ball instead of into the dirt a few times they might have pulled out the win (throughout the whole game, not just potential game winning drives).

Posted by: dlhaze1 | June 7, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

I'll still take it over what we had.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | June 7, 2010 3:21 PM | Report abuse

so hes, if its such a foregone conclusion how poor the upcoming season is going to be, and you truly, TRULY want to boycott Snyder, why are you posting on a Redskins blog???

If you want to boycott Snyder, wouldn't you either follow another team, or stop following the NFL alltogether??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 7, 2010 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Ah Bean the realist...

Posted by: mhartz1 | June 7, 2010 3:26 PM | Report abuse

If McNabb was Manning then he wouldn't have been available for a #2 pick.

But for anyone to question that McNabb is the best qb the Redskins have had since Theismann means they are simply going through life with their eyes closed.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 7, 2010 3:30 PM | Report abuse

"In pro hoops, when was the last time a team not seeded in the conference top 4 won a title? Seems so much of the NBA playoffs are 'meaningless drama". Unlike the NFL or NHL, where lower seeds have gone a long way, and even won championships.

Posted by: zcezcest1"

Seems like you just disproved your own assertion that the regular season in the NBA doesn't matter, as opposed to a league like the NHL. And you're right (about your reasoning, not your assertion). It is much more important to earn a top seed in the NBA than the NHL.

As regular seasons go, I'd say it's NFL, NBA, NHL, then MLB.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

@ iH8dallas

You take the last 10 years of $nyder at the helm and that would make me a realist. Have fun in la-la land. 4-12

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah.... Well the jerk store called, and they're running out of you!

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:39 PM | Report abuse


@BeantownGreg1

To love the Redskins and dislike $nyder makes it easy. I'd love to see the Redskins not only win, but also be a 1st class orginization. This won't happen with $nyder owning the team. So I don't buy anything $nyder. Period

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 3:41 PM | Report abuse

As regular seasons go, I'd say it's NFL, NBA, NHL, then MLB.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 3:36 PM | Report abuse

I disagree, to me the excitement of the regular season goes NFL NHL MLB and than the NBA.

Posted by: alex35332 | June 7, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Shanny could have dumped even more dead weight from last year's roster - Rabach, BMW, Heyer, Doughty, Daniels, Kelly, and Colt just to name a few.

Posted by: coparker5 | June 7, 2010 3:43 PM | Report abuse

On NFL.com some writer has The Raiders ahead of us in power rankings....wow.

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

1. this of all years is the one to make a purge on the order of what the Skins have done. new regime in charge, coming off a lousy season, with no salary cap to inhibit making the "right" moves... just whack away

b. the cuts aren't done yet. there are going to be a couple more "big names" gone before we kick off in September. among them may be Mike Sellers. book it.

Posted by: NateinthePDX | June 7, 2010 3:49 PM | Report abuse

hes, Snyder is an NFL owner, so by watching the NFL you support him, so practice what you preach, and TRULY, TRULY boycott Snyder, by not following ANY team in the NFL.....

lets see you put your money where your mouth is....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 7, 2010 3:50 PM | Report abuse

No one has forgotten the last decade or so of how things have gone, but you persist on handing out these "free all summer" passes for Jim Zorn.

Dude sucked worse than a mixed Quaker and Mormon chick trying to give dome for the first time, but you steady overlook that.

Zorn's your guy, and that's cool. I don't understand why or how, but it's cool.

Posted by: RedDMV | June 7, 2010 1:30 PM

I think you miss my point. Blaming Zorn is like focusing on the period at the end of a sentence while neglecting to read the sentence.

Let's say, for the sake or argument, that Zorn is a drooling imbecile and doesn't know the difference between a football and frizbee. Doesn't that beg the question, "How the phuk did he get hired?"

Then you look at the past decade, and you see a trend. A trend that covers a half dozen coaches, even more offensive coordinators, and a ishload of QBs.

That's looking at the big picture. Stop focusing on a single punctuation mark, read the WHOLE story. We're not in disagreement, we're just focusing on different things.

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

What's the status of Jared Gaither? I would love to pick that guy up...No homo

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse

For excitement purposes, I'd agree that the NHL regular season does compete with the NBA, purely based on player pride. They seem to "care" more. As for its meaning and effect on the overall outcome at playoff's end...not so much.

And bad NHL regular season games are BAD. It was painful being a Caps fan pre-Ovechkin, post-1999.

For the life of me, I can't see how MLB even competes. The game is slow enough as it is, but having a 160+ game regular season is beyond mind-numbing. I feel for you Orioles' fans, I really do.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

notice that cat with 713 isn't up here today, after the lakers lost last night......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 7, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

For the life of me, I can't see how MLB even competes. The game is slow enough as it is, but having a 160+ game regular season is beyond mind-numbing. I feel for you Orioles' fans, I really do.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I think it's funny when guys on ESPN start talking about the playoffs, saying stuff like "Well I don't know if (insert team) can make it. They are 3 games back with 94 more to play."

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 4:00 PM | Report abuse

But for anyone to question that McNabb is the best qb the Redskins have had since Theismann means they are simply going through life with their eyes closed.

Posted by: leopard09 | June 7, 2010 3:30 PM

Actually, I'd say that means been watching this team with eyes wide open. Give me "inferior" QBs like Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, and yes, even Brad Johnson. Give me a strong team that can go all the way, not another teams fading superstar who's supposed to "save" us.

Until McNabb does something in burgundy and gold, he is NOT the best QB the Skins have had since Jason Campbell, let alone Theisman.

He's done less for this team than Deion Sanders or Brandon Lloyd.

I will wait until he's taken some real snaps for this team before proclaiming him anything but another part in a play we've seen over and over again.

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 3:13 PM

Bro', you beat me to that post.

Good job.

Plus, doncha like how mistamayor makes it sound as if Shanallen has forced HOF'ers and pro bowlers off the roster?

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

@BeantownGreg1

To love the Redskins and dislike $nyder makes it easy. I'd love to see the Redskins not only win, but also be a 1st class orginization. This won't happen with $nyder owning the team. So I don't buy anything $nyder. Period

Posted by: hessone

Hess, just because Snyder's a jerk doesn't mean the team can't and won't ever win.

You only have to look about 30 miles north of town for proof of that.
About 15 years ago, ther was no owner more vilified and hated then Art Modell.

Modell never won in Cleveland and moved a storied franchise to Baltimore of all places. Yet, 5 years later he wears a Super Bowl ring, Think the citizens of Baltimore care about how big a jerk he was after that?

Nobody here likes Snyder to varying degrees, but come on man, your hatred is a little over the top.

Posted by: Predator48 | June 7, 2010 4:17 PM | Report abuse

"For the life of me, I can't see how MLB even competes."


They make money at the gate and via tv contracts, something which, the good people who run the MLS, would kill to have.

And soccer is what's dull to watch.

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 4:22 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 Do you really believe Jason Campbell is as good a QB as McNabb honestly?

Posted by: TimmySmith36 | June 7, 2010 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Rick Maese ≠ "The Mayor"

Posted by: NateinthePDX | June 7, 2010 4:28 PM | Report abuse

"As regular seasons go, I'd say it's NFL, NBA, NHL, then MLB."

A lil re-do is in order here:

As seasons go, I'd say it's NFL, NCAA (SEC/ACC/PAC 10, bowl games suck, though), MLB (best and quickest playoffs), NBA/NHL (tie for second longest most irrevelant season), and NCAA Men's Basketball (a 96 team tournament is Patrick Star dumb).

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 4:31 PM | Report abuse

If only the MLS was the defining competition of the sport.

What you should be comparing MLB to is the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, Champion's League, or the World Cup, all of which blow away any claim to superiority the MLB has over the MLS.

It's cool though, to each his own. It will only make baseball obsolete for about a month this summer, which still gives baseball about a month and a half in the spotlight before the NFL starts up again.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 4:42 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 Do you really believe Jason Campbell is as good a QB as McNabb honestly?

Posted by: TimmySmith36 | June 7, 2010 4:26 PM

Let me guess... you're a lawyer. Either that or you don't read too good, LOL.

If you read my post, you will find an argument that McNabb has done less for the team than Brandon Lloyd, Deion Sanders, and yes, Jason Campbell.

That's the advantage of writing these posts... you can always go back and read it again. And if the words are too big for you, you can look 'em up!

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 4:43 PM | Report abuse

My point on the NBA playoffs is that in order to be interested in them, I realized I needed to follow the regular season. But I lost interest in the regular since it had a 'going thru the motions' feel to it.

Plus, a lot of teams that had no legit shot at the championship were in the NBA playoffs. Not sure the last time a team seeded below 4 won an NBA title

My proposal makes the regular season important again.

The NBA and NHL are essentially identical from a regular season, postseason structure, but my proposal wouldn't work in the NHL. The difference is low seeds in the NHL have a history of going a long way in the playoffs, including this year.

My NBA playoff proposal gets rid of all the teams but 1, seeded 4 or below, in 1 week. In that week, The league would have a total of 10 games, each essentially a game 7, with 10 teams getting eliminated.

Less games, but more excitement in both the regular season and post season.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 Do you really believe Jason Campbell is as good a QB as McNabb honestly?

Posted by: TimmySmith36 | June 7, 2010 4:26 PM

I also find it ironic that you give yourself the handle of a very marginal player, who was given the opportunity to shine in a Super Bowl.

Choosing that handle, one might think YOU would recognize that Timmy Smith's heroic effort was not because he was a great RB, but because he had a superior TEAM around him.

Clinton Portis is one of our greatest RBs, but he'e been around for some of our suckiest years. Funny, huh?

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse

What happened to Albright, Jason? Did he ever make a mistake?

Posted by: Albright4Snapper | June 7, 2010 4:58 PM | Report abuse

One playoff change that would be easy to make ... let the top seed choose their opponent. The next highest seed gets to choose theirs, etc, until there is no choice left.

For example, in the AFC wild card last years

1. Colts
2. Chargers
3. Pats
4. Bengals
5. Jets
6. Ravens

For the W/C week, the 3rd seed, the Pats, could have chosen to play the Bengals, Jets or Ravens.

The following week, Indy could have chosen to play the Chargers or either of the W/C winners.

I think it'd be even more interesting in the NBA and NHL, especially in the opening round. There, the #1 seed would make the first choice, the #2 seed would make the next choice (unless #1 chose #2), etc.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"My proposal makes the regular season important again."

Not sure how the regular season is not important in the NBA when it's been shown that it's almost always the teams earning top 4 seeds in each conference that win the title.

It seems like you're saying seeds 5-8 in the playoffs don't matter because they won't win the title.

But seeds 5-8 DO upset seeds 1-4 in the playoffs. Which makes your claim akin to saying the NCAA tournament should be cut to a 32 team field because no team lower than #8 seed has ever won the NCAA tournament.

Not sure I can agree with that.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Alan Zorn/Campbell = losers Portis was a great running back that looks to be in the twilight of his career. I respect what Clinton has brought to this team. Luckily for McNabb Campbell/Zorn set the bar extremely low and I wholeheartedly believe our record this season will be better than 4-12. I guess you will be watching the Raiders?

Posted by: TimmySmith36 | June 7, 2010 5:08 PM | Report abuse


@BeantownGreg1

Never said I watched the NFL. Look, I have an opinion and so do you. I'm not as technical as you are about a boycott. I don't buy anything $nyder. That in itself is a boycott. And the day he doesn't own the team is the day you'll see a change on and off the field. A change for the good, and not a change to keep revenue up. So go buy a McNabb jersey and go to the game. Same as it ever was - Same as it ever was - Same as it ever was.........

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 5:13 PM | Report abuse


@ Predator48

If you read my post you will notice I said "dislike". Hey, the way $nyder treats folks, I don't like the guy. When I say BOYCOTT $NYDER, it's in response to the way he has singlehandedly destroyed a proud franchise. It's just a game, no big deal.

Posted by: hessone | June 7, 2010 5:19 PM | Report abuse

This was ripped from PFT...

also....whadaya expect with a new coaching staff??

I'd rather talk about the Goonies 25th anniversary....

"Hey You Guys!!!"

Everytime it comes on, I am watching it...

Posted by: 4thFloor | June 7, 2010 5:21 PM | Report abuse

I feel ya...

I don't buy anything Walmart...

Beefore you know it, they'll be doing taxes for $4.99 and I'll be out of a job!

Posted by: 4thFloor | June 7, 2010 5:31 PM | Report abuse

TimmySmith36, I will indeed be watching the Raiders. I view them as something of a west coast version of the Skins--very dysfunctional. Oddly enough, Shanahan and Allen both have ties to the Raiders--they can both say they've worked for Al Davis and Dan Snyder now.

It will be equally interesting to see how Campbell performs for the Raiders, and McNabb performs for the Skins. In my estimation, both teams found a QB more suited to their systems. And both are learning a new offense this year.

It will be interesting.

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Shanahan went 13-3 with Jake Plummer, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Plummer also holds the Broncos single season yardage and TD records.

I imagine Donovan will be just fine under Shanny, seeing that Donovan is twice the QB Plummer was.

Posted by: iH8dallas

Some guy named Elway holds those records. Some people out there believe that Shanahan can't win without Elway. It's not the development of QBs that drove the Broncos success it was the development of the running game under Shanny. He was churning out 1000 yard rushers like crazy. Plummer had 15,27,11 and 18Tds under Shanny. The year he had 27 he also had 20 ints.

McNabb is better than Campbell but at this point in his career it is not by a ton. McNabb has not been able to stay healthy. He is no longer mobile. He has never been accurate. Throwing the ball into the ground is not a staple in the west coast offense. Getting the ball out quickly and accurately is.

The question is whether or not Shanny can turn around the running game. It may take a few years. The backs are at the age where they are put out to pasture. The Oline has 3 new starters including both tackle positions. Hicks and Big Mike are backup caliber players. Trent Williams is going to have his share of rough games as a rookie starting at LT. I see the season as anywhere from 5 to 8 wins. I see 5 games which they will probably be favored. Assuming they win those I think if they stay healthy they can pull another 2-3. The schedule is tough. They may only win 1 or 2 in the NFC east.

Posted by: srobert1117 | June 7, 2010 5:37 PM | Report abuse

"I know more than several Eagles fans who actually have their heads on straight, and this is their number one reason for not being upset that Mcnabb is gone. I have watched many an Eagles loss where if he had thrown a good ball instead of into the dirt a few times they might have pulled out the win (throughout the whole game, not just potential game winning drives).Posted by: dlhaze1"

Yes, McNabb could throw some ugly balls. He doesn't get the yips the way Schroeder did, but he does short-hop passes with some regularity. That drives offensive coordinators nuts, and I'm sure that's why they think Kolb will do a better job. Kolb is a traditional WCO guy who excels at short drops and quick throws to open receivers.

But McNabb has strengths that often go unrecognized. One is the way he handles pressure. Aaron Schatz of footballoutsiders cited Donovan as one of the rare QBs who excels even when hurried by pass rushers (the others were Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers). He makes plays outside the pocket as well or better than when protected. He doesn't take as many sacks as Big Lusty Ben does, and he doesn't dance around like Rodgers. I think it's a talent that the stats geeks have just begun to identify, but if I had to pick a name for it, it would be 'playmaker'. A term you could use to describe Elway, Jake Plummer, and Jay Cutler -- three other QBs who excelled for Shanahan but took a lot of criticism throughout their careers.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 7, 2010 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Funny -- I'd expect a lot of turnover on a 4-12 team like the Skins vs. a 12-4 team like the Vikings. Wouldn't it be more relevant to compare them with the Rams, Lions, or Buccaneers...

Posted by: siris | June 7, 2010 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Funny -- I'd expect a lot of turnover on a 4-12 team like the Skins vs. a 12-4 team like the Vikings. Wouldn't it be more relevant to compare them with the Rams, Lions, or Buccaneers...

Posted by: siris | June 7, 2010 5:44 PM | Report abuse

... but if I had to pick a name for it, it would be 'playmaker'. A term you could use to describe Elway, Jake Plummer, and Jay Cutler -- three other QBs who excelled for Shanahan but took a lot of criticism throughout their careers.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 7, 2010 5:38 PM

I like your analysis, it's well thought out.

There are some here who would look at a win-loss record and immediately label (for examnple) Cutler a loser. After all, he's never had a winning record since he's been in the NFL. People fail to realize what a strong running game does for a QB.

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 5:46 PM | Report abuse

If you read my post you will notice I said "dislike". Hey, the way $nyder treats folks, I don't like the guy. When I say BOYCOTT $NYDER, it's in response to the way he has singlehandedly destroyed a proud franchise. It's just a game, no big deal.

Posted by: hessone

I also read where you said the team was giong 4-12. You gave no reason as to why other than a reference to Snyder.

So is that the reason we are going 4-12?

Are you predicting 4-12 as long as he owns the team?

Posted by: Predator48 | June 7, 2010 5:49 PM | Report abuse

Ok Everyone knows mcnabb is gonna b a better qb for us than JC was. The guy has heart. Jc, loved him but when the goin got tough, he never got goin. Cooley n Davis are our best weapons right now. I say put DT at 1 and then move Moss to the slot. We are at least 4-6 wins better this year!

Posted by: brandon_in_cali | June 7, 2010 6:00 PM | Report abuse

Since when did assistant head coaches for the skins start dressing like they were on star trek TNG?

Posted by: alex35332 | June 7, 2010 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Put a viser on coach Turner and he's the spitting image of Jordi!


Posted by: monk811 | June 7, 2010 3:06 PM | Report abuse


Typical.

I bet all african-american blind chief engineers of Galaxy-class starships look the same to you, eh?

Posted by: p1funk | June 7, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

back to check in as work slows down, and almost everything is about football!

like the mix of informed (mis-informed?) opinion/analysis today.

"lack of retention" is to be expected under the circumstances, although it suggests an unpleasant medical condition.

agreed with those who find NBA boring. can appreciate the athletic elegance, but as others have noted, there is something about the regular season schedule and playoff format that saps my interest.

nothing else to contribute.

cheers all, enjoy.

Posted by: moodlymoodlymoo | June 7, 2010 6:03 PM | Report abuse

But seeds 5-8 DO upset seeds 1-4 in the playoffs. Which makes your claim akin to saying the NCAA tournament should be cut to a 32 team field because no team lower than #8 seed has ever won the NCAA tournament.

Not sure I can agree with that.

Posted by: psps23

If the NCAA tournament was mostly about picking a winner, it'd probably be a 32 team tourney, or less. But of course, its about participating and Cinderella's, not just deciding a championship.

As for the NBA, I didn't eliminate the lower tier -- I actually expanded it (9 teams vs 8). But I also reduce the lower tier (4-9 seeds) down to 1 team really quickly. The NCAA tourney actually was part of my thinking. One and done makes for some really fun games.

The 4 to 9 seeds actually go thru a playoff structure that is essentially identical to the NFL playoffs. 6 teams per conference, 2 highest seeds get byes, etc.

One of the motivations was this: How do you make the regular season more interesting and how do you reward teams that do better than others? 82 games just to determine who gets home court if you go to a game 7 seems a lot of action for minimal reward.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 6:04 PM | Report abuse

But McNabb has strengths that often go unrecognized. One is the way he handles pressure. Aaron Schatz of footballoutsiders cited Donovan as one of the rare QBs who excels even when hurried by pass rushers (the others were Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers). He makes plays outside the pocket as well or better than when protected. He doesn't take as many sacks as Big Lusty Ben does, and he doesn't dance around like Rodgers. I think it's a talent that the stats geeks have just begun to identify, but if I had to pick a name for it, it would be 'playmaker'.

Posted by: Samson151

Saying he doesn't take as many sacks as Big Ben or Rodgers isn't high praise. philly was the 6th worst team in the league in sack yards allowed (Skins were 4th).

But I'd agree on the point that McNabb does seem calm when he's on the move. In one regard, he's like Steve Young, another QB who did a lot of running early in his career. They both evolved from a running QB to a mobile QB. The plays they made with their feet in the later parts of their careers involve buying time to throw, not running for a 1st down.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 6:17 PM | Report abuse

Redskins Lag in Retention?

Seriously?

That's the headline?

How about:

Redskins amongst league leaders in unloading washed up, under performing, over-priced players.

Can we really be surprised that a team that went 4-12 and canned their idiot coach and tard GM "lagged" a little in retaining it's players?

HA ha ha ha ha....

Posted by: edvar | June 7, 2010 6:51 PM | Report abuse

@IH8Dallas:

The problem with the 13-3 with Plummer is that he was 9-7 the year after. After that (with Cutler), he was 7-9 and 8-8 (after an epic collapse the latter year). The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and what I see is a 3 game collapse in his last action. How does this translate to the REdskins? We'll be right back to the mediocre stage (between 10-6 and 6-10) instead of god awful.

Posted by: Randy_Hawkins | June 7, 2010 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Agreed. McNabb is an upgrade over Campbell. But he isn't Peyton or Brady or Brees.


Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 2:18 PM

I remember when Drew Brees was available. The Redskins showed no interest. I felt it was a missed opportunity. Now, I'm sure it was.

McNabb IS an upgrade over Campbell, but not so much. He can't move like he used to and gets injured almost every year. But, he's a smart veteran with great (maybe too great) poise and he's best at the long ball - when he throws it, it's usually there.

Still, comparing Campbell last year to McNabb this coming year is unfair. We'll have a run game, an intelligent and adaptive offense (not to mention the play-calling), an improved O Line and receivers, and a true leader at Head Coach.

I just hope somebody beats Wrecks Nessman out of the number 2 spot. I don't want to see him under center - Ever, and I don't expect McNabb to last the year.

Posted by: Thinker_ | June 7, 2010 7:54 PM | Report abuse

This was a golden opportunity to purge the roster and start in earnest on a 3 year plan for return to respectability year-in year-out. In my view that didn't happen. Not enough dead weight was cut and too many past their prime were brought in. Not 100% sure what Shanny's up to, but my hunch is it's win now.

Anyone want to make the opposite case?

By the way, I want to get a prediction in well before training camp starts and all -- McNabb will disappoint as a Redskin.

Not "book it" but strong hunch. He'll start fast and then fade just as fast. If he's here next year, it's Brunell part deux.

Posted by: Pepper5 | June 7, 2010 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Alan4 Do you really believe Jason Campbell is as good a QB as McNabb honestly?

Posted by: TimmySmith36 | June 7, 2010 4:26 PM

I also find it ironic that you give yourself the handle of a very marginal player, who was given the opportunity to shine in a Super Bowl.

Choosing that handle, one might think YOU would recognize that Timmy Smith's heroic effort was not because he was a great RB, but because he had a superior TEAM around him.

Clinton Portis is one of our greatest RBs, but he'e been around for some of our suckiest years. Funny, huh?

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse


WOW! One of the best responses and ending of a discussion I've ever read on here! LOL

Adding that the guy also sits in prison for drug trafficking.

the line opened up holes a semi could go through in the SB. I think the next season he started and fumbled the ball something like 6 times in 4 games and Gibbs cut him...I don't think he ever played again.

Even D. Green in America's game said he didn't remember seeing him again after that game! LOL

Posted by: leevi98 | June 7, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

@Thinker

agree with much of what you said. On Brees, its easy to forget that he had wrecked his throwing shoulder and was a major risk coming off major surgery. Few teams wanted to put significant money on the line for a guy who might have been unable to play at a high level. In hindsight, about 27 other teams made the same mistake. Kudos to the Saints for taking the risk, they sure got their $$ worth.

As for all the "improvements" to the Skins, I really see only 2. McNabb (and I was against the trade that brought him here) and Coach Shanahan. Our RBs, OL and WRs are roughly equal with last year. No major improvements.

But I totally agree that Shanahan is a superb HC and we'll see the difference in a lot of different ways, from play calling to preparedness to motivation, etc etc.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 8:17 PM | Report abuse

This was a golden opportunity to purge the roster and start in earnest on a 3 year plan for return to respectability year-in year-out. In my view that didn't happen. Not enough dead weight was cut and too many past their prime were brought in. Not 100% sure what Shanny's up to, but my hunch is it's win now.

Anyone want to make the opposite case?

Posted by: Pepper5

Not me. I put out my 'alternate' plan for what I'd have done differently. My team was younger, cheaper and probably comparable in what could be accomplished.

The major differences? Keep Campbell, use the picks we gave up for McNabb to further upgrade OL with youth (guys like Gaither or Pouncey). Keep Q Ganther as our RB, let go of Portis and not bother with LJ, Parker or Westbrook.

On average, the team would be nearly 2 years younger, with a good core to build around that could stay in place 5-7 years. And the budget wouldn't preclude adding free agents in the coming years.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

"What you should be comparing MLB to is the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, Champion's League, or the World Cup, all of which blow away any claim to superiority the MLB has over the MLS."

The problem with the comparison is that outside of the MLS, I don't know what those other things you mention are.

And I'm not trying to learn.

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 8:33 PM | Report abuse

pepper5

"By the way, I want to get a prediction in well before training camp starts and all--McNabb will disappoint as a Redskin."

Bro', you're out on a limb that really is on a strong tree.

Why?

Well, the skins' offense will be a work in progress still featuring developing wide receivers and jelling offensive line.

That's not a mix of ability that portends success, and D McNabb might find himself the object of the same booing he earned in Philly.

But here in the warmth of June, we are all optimistic and hope D Mac will make a positive return on Shanny's investment.

Thing is, the Fall is what brings pessimism.

And reality.

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

I know that this is focusing on about 1% of the content of this post about what is generally a good thing (roster turnover on a 4-12 team), but did Ethan Albright EVER make a mistake as a Redskin? I used to marvel at his consistency and what I came to consider his freakishly good play at a position that usually is only noticed after a mistake. He frequently was near the tackle of a punt returner...clogging up a running lane. You rarely see that from other snappers. Even though the Skins have had their fair share of trouble on field goals, invariably the replay showed that the snap was good.
I don't know if he retired, the new regime had someone else in mind, or he is simply a casualty of the age/salary equation...but this is one bit of roster turnover that is probably not going to make the Redskins better in 2010.

Posted by: MColeman51 | June 7, 2010 2:04 PM | Report abuse
Finally someone has something intelligent to say on here! There is NO WAY letting Albright go is a good move. Most consistant player on the team, at a position where consistancy is paramount.
I'm surprised at the overlook by the staff.
I'd really like to hear the rationality behind it.

Posted by: wdcdave | June 7, 2010 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Not me. I put out my 'alternate' plan for what I'd have done differently. My team was younger, cheaper and probably comparable in what could be accomplished.

The major differences? Keep Campbell, use the picks we gave up for McNabb to further upgrade OL with youth (guys like Gaither or Pouncey). Keep Q Ganther as our RB, let go of Portis and not bother with LJ, Parker or Westbrook.

On average, the team would be nearly 2 years younger, with a good core to build around that could stay in place 5-7 years. And the budget wouldn't preclude adding free agents in the coming years.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 8:30 PM | Report abuse

Exactly. The only thing I would have done in addition was try to unload Cooley and Carter for a pick or two. I know -- harsh medicine but the only way to convince the world that things had finally changed for good here.

Posted by: Pepper5 | June 7, 2010 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Bro', you're out on a limb that really is on a strong tree. Why?

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 8:40 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess I was pretty shocked by that Boswell column where he basically predicts great things for McNabb. Of course Wilbon is beyond hope on this question but he did the same. Overall, I guess I'm a Feinstein guy now, one dude not in a forgiving mood about any of it.

Posted by: Pepper5 | June 7, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

All it took for the Cetlics to take game 2 was a historical record-setting performance by Allen, a once every series triple-double from Rondo, and having Kobe Bryant pick up his 4th and 5th fouls within 2 minutes of the 3rd and 4th quarters, respectively, to secure a 9-point victory.
As long as the Celtics keep pulling off those feats, I expect this to be an easy series to finish off.

Posted by: psps23 | June 7, 2010 10:25 AM

And an off game by Pierce and Garnett...Oh and Rondo has 5 career playoff trip-doub's.

I'd call this an OFF- post by you, I'd expect more from an ivy-leaguer..

Posted by: Diesel44 | June 7, 2010 9:56 PM | Report abuse

Check out this statistical evaluation site.
http://profootballfocus.com/home.php?tab=home
I was somewhat surprised at "Dirty 30" low rating within the league's starting safeties, and Trylon's rather respectable ranking. BTW, statistically, Hall is ranked higher than LOS.........

Posted by: Spanglerg | June 7, 2010 10:30 AM | Report abuse

That's the site that I posted numbers from that have served as the cornerstone of some controversy in this discussion.
Let me give you some friendly advice -
Apparently it's quite taboo and heretical to try to find statistical and metric-oriented evidence to backup an opinion, so tread carefully, my friend.
P.S. - I was not surprised to see LL30 so low on the rankings. He sucked last year.

Posted by: p1funk | June 7, 2010 12:06 PM

bro- you should hit the OVERALL tab on your "statistical and metric oriented evidence"..

Rodgers - 52
Tyron - 65
Smoot - 69
HALL - tied for 76

I'd give you a metaphor but Redskinhead is confused by them and RedDMV prefers ugly chicks.

Posted by: Diesel44 | June 7, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse

Of course we have retained almost the least of any team in the NFL [3rd least], uh, we did go 4-12 last season.

Reviewing the chart provided three teams jumped out and surprised me:
a. Why have the Rams retained so many?
b. Why have the Cardinals after making the Super Bowl and Playoffs, gotten rid of so many?
c. Why do the Colts rank pretty low in retaining players as well?

Good Night everyone.

Posted by: RedskinRay1 | June 7, 2010 10:18 PM | Report abuse

"Saying he doesn't take as many sacks as Big Ben or Rodgers isn't high praise. philly was the 6th worst team in the league in sack yards allowed (Skins were 4th)."

Good thing that wasn't my point then. Ben 'takes' sacks in an (often vain)effort to hold the ball til somebody comes open -- he also likes to make the throw with a defender hanging from his leg). When you're that big, I guess you can away with it. Rodgers is more the Fran Tarkenton type, just plain hard to corral. McNabb has a few traits of both. They all put pressure on the blocking. But they all seem to complete difficult passes when they need to (and toss awkward-looking gopher balls when they don't).

Posted by: Samson151 | June 7, 2010 11:40 PM | Report abuse

"The major differences? Keep Campbell, use the picks we gave up for McNabb to further upgrade OL with youth (guys like Gaither or Pouncey). Keep Q Ganther as our RB, let go of Portis and not bother with LJ, Parker or Westbrook.On average, the team would be nearly 2 years younger, with a good core to build around that could stay in place 5-7 years. And the budget wouldn't preclude adding free agents in the coming years."

I guess the Skins management wanted to win some games.

Posted by: Samson151 | June 7, 2010 11:43 PM | Report abuse

"The major differences? Keep Campbell, use the picks we gave up for McNabb to further upgrade OL with youth (guys like Gaither or Pouncey). Keep Q Ganther as our RB, let go of Portis and not bother with LJ, Parker or Westbrook.On average, the team would be nearly 2 years younger, with a good core to build around that could stay in place 5-7 years. And the budget wouldn't preclude adding free agents in the coming years."

I guess the Skins management wanted to win some games.

Posted by: Samson151

I know I'm in the minority on this. But people asked what I'd have done differently. And that's how I'd have gone. Get younger and rebuild the OL faster. I doubt the team would be much different in the short term (2010), but would be better in the long term.

By the way, the Skins will be much better in 2010, with Shanahan being the big difference maker. My pessimism for 2010 is based on the competition and on our OL. For starters, young Trent Williams is slated to play 9 game against 2009 Pro Bowlers (and 2 more vs osi). Even if he plays well, its a murderers row lineup. Williams could play a decade and never face a tougher schedule than he will as a rookie.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 11:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey, RI. Redskins will sign FS O.J Atogwe tomorrow. book it. He becomes a free agent tomorrow and played under Jim Haslett with the rams, causes turnovers, and will move laron to SS forever. he knows Jim's defense.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/14972/rams-exec-explains-atogwe-tender

that was about two months ago. the draft is now over and as it stands of now O.J will not sign with the rams, making him a free agent.

Posted by: nfcBEaST | June 1, 2010 6:14 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: Tyler84101 | June 8, 2010 12:03 AM | Report abuse

Why is it interesting that the Redskins have had so much turnover? The team didn't have a winning record and there's a new coach and GM in town. This is about as deep in the category of non-news as you can get. Next they will be predicting that the footballs won't be round balls this season.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | June 8, 2010 2:24 AM | Report abuse


"The major differences? Keep Campbell, use the picks we gave up for McNabb to further upgrade OL with youth (guys like Gaither or Pouncey). Keep Q Ganther as our RB, let go of Portis and not bother with LJ, Parker or Westbrook.On average, the team would be nearly 2 years younger, with a good core to build around that could stay in place 5-7 years. And the budget wouldn't preclude adding free agents in the coming years."

I guess the Skins management wanted to win some games.

Posted by: Samson151

I know I'm in the minority on this. But people asked what I'd have done differently. And that's how I'd have gone. Get younger and rebuild the OL faster. I doubt the team would be much different in the short term (2010), but would be better in the long term.

By the way, the Skins will be much better in 2010, with Shanahan being the big difference maker. My pessimism for 2010 is based on the competition and on our OL. For starters, young Trent Williams is slated to play 9 game against 2009 Pro Bowlers (and 2 more vs osi). Even if he plays well, its a murderers row lineup. Williams could play a decade and never face a tougher schedule than he will as a rookie.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 7, 2010 11:59 PM
------------------------------------------
Guys, you sound like the guy who complained that some bird pooped on his foot when the goose that laid the golden egg dropped one on his toes...

Why would you think Quinton Ganther was a keeper? The guy was a lumberer with no burst.

Why would you keep Campbell? He had not proven himself in several years with the team. I'd say his window of opportunity has shut.

And it is unavoidable that Mr. Williams is going to face pro bowl pass rushers in his first year. You cannot queue up sixteen games against the 2009 Jaguars. Remember, some of those alleged "great" pass rushers from 2009 were elevated from mere mortal status by their play against a pathetic Redskins o-line last year. If you took away Osi's two games against the Redskins last year, how well did he play?

My bottom line is the team is better on paper than they were last year. They have a decisive, accurate QB. They have a stable of running backs far superior than last year's. The offensive line is still a work in progress but T. Williams is better than either Stephon Heyer, Levi Jones, or Mike Williams at left tackle. The defense is also a work in progress, but they have playmakers like Orakpo and *ahem* Haynesworth - they just need to figure out how to use them.

And as far as getting younger, this isn't Madden where the young guys always develop. A lot of times the young guys don't realize their potential. I think the team has a good mixture of new and old, and we'll see some of the young guys rise, but we'll be assured there are solid veterans behind them.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | June 8, 2010 2:38 AM | Report abuse

RSH, we'll just disagree. I keep Ganther because he played hungry. This 'lumberer with no burst' had more rushing TDs than Portis, Parker and Johnson -- combined. Your "Stable of running backs" that is "far superior to last year" had a total of 1 rushing TD in 400 rushes. Heck, Mother Superior could have done that.

On T Williams, if you haven't looked at the guys he's going to play, take a look. Its really brutal. 7 guys he'll go up against went to a Pro Bowl last year -- no flukes either -- they've got over 20 Pro Bowls combined. Playing some games vs Pro Bowlers is one thing. Playing 9 of them (ware and cole, we play twice). Yuck. Even if Williams is good, he's in for a rough year. It'll be challenging for McNabb to stay healthy and upright.

As for the "getting younger" part, you're right that younger doesn't mean better. But the roster I put out is younger, but not much different in talent. Same WRs and TE. Younger and more talented OL. Younger and less talented QB. Younger and (at this point) equally talented RB. Also, my team was less expensive, meaning more ability to get FAs signed, either this year or next.

The team I put together wasn't a 'win now' team, but one that had the potential to become a good team in 2010 and much better team in 2011 as younger players develop. I don't think Shanahan has a good chance to see the playoffs in 2010 either, but, given the age, its definitely a 'win now' team.

My comments were on the offense, but I agree with you on the defense. It has plenty of talent, and it underachieved last year. No reason not to expect better this year. I prefer a 4-3, but if you can't figure out how to make a QB feel the heat with Orakpo and Albert, something is wrong.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | June 8, 2010 3:13 AM | Report abuse

zcezcest1
Two points I'd like to make:

1. Over the last four games where Ganther started he averaged 2.6 yards per carry - which I think is poor for a running back. He was the last running back left standing when the music stopped and that is how he got playing time but the guy wasn't even in the top 50% of running backs in the league.

2. Every team is a "win now" team.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | June 8, 2010 5:18 AM | Report abuse

I’m just glad to see Cerrato gone, period. No retention for that idiot.

Posted by: scalawag | June 8, 2010 6:01 AM | Report abuse

Mr. Reid, may I humbly help with this head line.

Redskins lag in retention of last year's players
change to
Redskins take the lead in not retaining their underachievers

After a 4-12 season, the Washington Redskins trim excess dead weight from their roster to make room for a more energetic, younger, and talented squad. See how the Redskins rank, 4th from the top of the list. Only three other teams were more aggressive in trimming their rosters. Add the coaching change to the equation and the Redskins are right their on the top with Seattle.
Now that sounds better.

Posted by: scalawag | June 8, 2010 6:57 AM | Report abuse

I think the Redskins should keep chopping the dead wood.

Posted by: rbrown1249 | June 8, 2010 7:31 AM | Report abuse

And soccer is what's dull to watch.

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 7, 2010 4:22 PM


No truer words will be added to this blog today.

Posted by: MColeman51 | June 8, 2010 7:40 AM | Report abuse

What's the status of Jared Gaither? I would love to pick that guy up...No homo

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse


It's OK, H8. I've got a man-crush on Gaither too.

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 7:40 AM | Report abuse

Clinton Portis is one of our greatest RBs, but he'e been around for some of our suckiest years. Funny, huh?

Posted by: Alan4 | June 7, 2010 4:53 PM | Report abuse


Yes.

Hilarious.

I'm laughing only b/c I've run dry of tears...

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 7:43 AM | Report abuse

"RI. Redskins will sign FS O.J Atogwe tomorrow."

I put this assertively stated claim in the 'Doubt it' column.

And let's end the "Free O.J. Otogwe" posts before Al Sharpton shows up expecting to eloquently pontificate in defense of the wrong guy.

Why?: well, for one thing, the redskins have just about every safety in the league on their roster already.

(INSERT tongue-in-cheek, snarky tone.)

Plus, in terms of safety play, Jim Haslett's new scheme will give L Landry linebacker-lite responsibilities that'll properly utilize his skill set.

That, and not O.J., is what I'm looking for.

LaRon Landry playing with Troy Polamalu type swag is what we should all hope to see.

LaRon Landry is not a free safety-let, so let one of the other 60 safeties on the roster duke it out to play the position.

We already know that the only thing Landry can cover in space is his own shadow and even that eludes his grasp as his tackling fundamentals are on par with Fred Davis' track star hurdling ability.

LaRon Landry should watch cut-ups of his ravens brother playing safety in order to improve his own play.

Landry should be freed up to roam, blitz, or play run-support as a strong safety.

And will the change in how he is used make the team regret not signing O.J. Atogwe?

Doubt it.

Posted by: MistaMoe | June 8, 2010 7:44 AM | Report abuse

Well if throwing the balls in the dirt has gotten him to multiple Pro Bowls and playoff games, then I think the Skins made a wise move!! :)

Posted by: fearturtle44 | June 8, 2010 7:56 AM | Report abuse

What's the status of Jared Gaither? I would love to pick that guy up...No homo

Posted by: iH8dallas

Gaither would be a 1 year rental as he is expecting a big pay day as a LT. The cost to the Redskins to trade for him would be prohibitive as it would be a 2nd rounder. It would be very unlikely he would resign with the Skins due to T Williams occupying the LT position.

Posted by: srobert1117 | June 8, 2010 7:57 AM | Report abuse

bro- you should hit the OVERALL tab on your "statistical and metric oriented evidence"..

Rodgers - 52
Tyron - 65
Smoot - 69
HALL - tied for 76

I'd give you a metaphor but Redskinhead is confused by them and RedDMV prefers ugly chicks.

Posted by: Diesel44 | June 7, 2010 10:05 PM | Report abuse


Yes, Diez, that point has been raised, my Testud-bro. A couple counterpoints to keep in mind on that.

1) The "overall ratings" are based on the opinions of the bean-counters who run the sight. That section of the analysis is weighted by "personal opinion" and less-so on the stats and metrics. It's not just number-crunching - they watch game film and decide what they like.

2) The overall rating is a combination of 2 factors weighted equally: pass coverage and run support. D.Hall is rated higher than C.Rogers in "pass coverage". However, D.Hall is predictably rated much lower than Rogers in "run support", and that is the element that makes the difference in the overall ranking. The discussion that was being had up here was - who is better in coverage? And so even the opinion-weighted rankings of those folks would agree with me that D.hall is a better cover corner.

Also, I don't factor in Smoot or Rogers. I tabulate the stats for CBs that have played at least 50% of their teams d-snaps (you can toggle that in the upper right-hand filter), b/c I'm looking at CBs who were most likely regular starters for their teams.

I think a very telling "metric" is the one in the last column that shows NFL rating, which is the cumulative QB rating of opposing QBs when throwing into that players coverage. I think that stat is telling b/c the QB rating factors in alot of things together - completion %, yardage, TD-int ratio - alot of the relevant stats you'd look at to gauge a CB's effectiveness in pass coverage.

Among the CBs who played 50% snaps or more D.Hall's rating is 54.2 (4th out of 65) and Rogers is 112.5 (60th out of 65).

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 7:59 AM | Report abuse

Hah! Yes, to answer your question, the scribblers are starting to see that.

Posted by: scalawag | June 8, 2010 8:03 AM | Report abuse

Ummmmmm, the reason that the Redskins "lag" behind in player retention is because they were 4-12. Replacing players on a bad team....is usually....a good thing.

Posted by: Jason10 | June 8, 2010 8:18 AM | Report abuse

Good argument re: D. Hall vs Carlos Rogers. Think Rogers would be better at safety?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 8, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

RedDMV prefers ugly chicks.

Posted by: Diesel44


Diesel44's wifey

Posted by: RedDMV | June 8, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

I'm really glad we are high on this list, a 4-12 team SHOULD get rid of the dead weight, which was a good chunk of the team. I predict more dead weight will be cut next year. The OLD dead weight was cut this year, next year will be the YOUNG ones that were 'Vinny's Boys' that were a waste of picks and can't play. Sucky thing is, we need to let this year play out and figure out who's worth keeping and can play in these new schemes and who's better saying "Do you want fries with that?"

Posted by: monk811 | June 8, 2010 8:25 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | June 8, 2010 8:25 AM

That's funny. Whatever that is, it sure looks like it can take a punch.

Posted by: Diesel44 | June 8, 2010 8:29 AM | Report abuse

the 2nd Redskins/Eagles game was on NFL Network yesterday afternoon...just cuz it was easier than punching myself in the nuts......

in the 2-3-2 format the winner of game #3 has gone on to win the Championship 10 times out of 10. Tonight is a HUGE game for the Celtics.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 8:32 AM | Report abuse

Yo fo-fo, I sure hope you don't plan on bringing her out in public -- EVER!

'itch needs to be kept in a cage in the basement. With the lights off.

That joint is barf on sight material.

Posted by: RedDMV | June 8, 2010 8:37 AM | Report abuse

Think Rogers would be better at safety?

Posted by: Samson151 | June 8, 2010 8:24 AM | Report abuse

A move to safety could sure mask some of his deficiencies in coverage. It won't help him generate any more turnovers in the form of INTs. He'd be a stout run-supporter which he's very good at.

I don't know the difference between CB and safety at the NFL level from a cerebral POV, but if safety requires a better understanding of the coverages/assignments than CB, I'm not sure if that is Roger's forte.

I think it's a moot point b/c Rogers thinks he's a #1 CB and wants to get paid like one. Safeties don't make #1 CB money...

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Red-

I don't know about you but I'd hit that.

I would literally hit her/he/it right in the suckhole.

Posted by: Diesel44 | June 8, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Predictions about tonight's Finals match-up and on....


* Celtics gonna win by more than 15 tonight.

* Gasol will be a non-factor, as he will get "da bizness" all night. Will then proceed to clam up like the pussie that he is.

* Kobe will become "Comedian Kobe" in the post game presser, which is what he does when he knows the Lakers have NO chance at winning a series.

* I will be mad that Kobe didn't get ring NO. 5, but will feel a high level of self-satisfaction that I was right about the Celtics being the better overall team, and that Pau is GASOFT!

Posted by: RedDMV | June 8, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: RedDMV | June 8, 2010 8:48 AM | Report abuse


Red, I'm going to throw out a referee-X-factor alert on tonight's game.

If the C's get the momentum with a win tonight,then they could steamroll through the rest of this series and turn it into a 4-1 clunker.

Will Stern and his gaggle of mutant zebras let that happen?

I don't know...

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 8:52 AM | Report abuse


What's the status of Jared Gaither? I would love to pick that guy up...No homo

Posted by: iH8dallas | June 7, 2010 3:52 PM | Report abuse


It's OK, H8. I've got a man-crush on Gaither too.

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 7:40 AM

Why? He's over-rated....

Posted by: 4thFloor | June 8, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse

It's OK, H8. I've got a man-crush on Gaither too.

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 7:40 AM

Why? He's over-rated....

Posted by: 4thFloor | June 8, 2010 8:54 AM | Report abuse


4th - I've got to head out for the balance of the day.

But I'm going to revisit this discussion as soon as I can.

If people thought I went over-the-top with my take on the D.Hall versus C.Rogers stats/metrics debate, the Gaither Sequel is going to be equally monstrous...

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 8:57 AM | Report abuse

red, ray-ray will come back to earth slightly, but I expect pierce to have a game, as well I expect rondo to continue to play at a very high level.....I agree, Celts run away with this one....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 8:58 AM | Report abuse

this is tragic, yet kind of funny:

KNOXVILLE (WATE) - A Knoxville man was minutes from proposing to his girlfriend on a hike in Western North Carolina Friday when she was struck and killed by lightning.

some things just weren't meant to be....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: p1funk | June 8, 2010 8:52 AM |

They'll let them play tonight, and whoever loses, they will bail them out in game 4.

Posted by: Rypien11 | June 8, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

In order to not be a hypocrite (although I don't really care if you think that), I will give my thoughts on the Lakers-Celtics game the other night. Congrats to the Celtics. I was actually travelling for business, so I missed the entire game save for a couple minutes in the 4th quarter, but, based on the ESPN highlight package and the box score, it appeared that obviously the key was Ray Allen's incredible 1st half and Rondo's second half. I would assume that Allen was either just shooting over Fisher or Fish wasn't running through the screens properly and therefore wasn't on him when he shot, then they rotated Kobe onto him some of the time in the 2nd half in order to slow him down, but I have no idea. The box score indicates Kobe shot poorly, for him - don't know whether it was an off night or good D. I was pleased to see, though, that Gasol thoroughly out-produced Garnett, again, even more than I expected. A ridiculous number of fouls - good grief.

I would expect that for game 3, Allen will come back down to earth, Kobe will get his playoff normal 30/5/7, Gasol will continue to outplay Garnett, and Artest will continue to make things difficult for Pierce (he needs to keep his mouth shut, by the way...fat chance...what an idiot he is). Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the Celtics have a slightly better road record than home record, and the Lakers already beat them in Boston in the regular season. I'm therefore pretty confident about the Lakers ability to win tonight's game even though it's in Boston.

That is all.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | June 8, 2010 9:21 AM | Report abuse

Why is this shocking? That's what you should get with 4-12.

Posted by: tundey | June 8, 2010 9:31 AM | Report abuse

wow, 713 is that serious?? nicely done with the objectivity there...haha....pathetic....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse

wow, 713 is that serious?? nicely done with the objectivity there...haha....pathetic....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 9:33 AM | Report abuse
__________

Don't even start criticizing me for objectivity...you're a Celtics diehard and couldn't take of your green glasses if your life depended on it. None of your views about this series have been objective. And you know what - that's okay. This isn't an ESPN analysis of the game that supposed to be objective. I'm just giving my views and you're giving yours. Keep being a Celtics homer, and I'll keep being a Lakers homer. Who cares? So don't even go there.

Posted by: skinsfan713 | June 8, 2010 9:41 AM | Report abuse

2. Every team is a "win now" team.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | June 8, 2010 5:18 AM | Report abuse

Could be. But in the Redskins' case, "win now" will hold them back from sustained success for many years to come.

Posted by: Pepper5 | June 8, 2010 9:43 AM | Report abuse

beeps

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | June 8, 2010 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Well, I guess you had run out of material. Now it's time to write about the bleeding obvious and make it sound revelatory.

When the GENIUS hired Allen it signaled another marketing throwback, this time to the Over the Hill Gang. With contract commitments, he could't quite begin again, but they're doing an admirable job hiring almost used up vets. All we need now is for Bruce Allen to channel his Dad's weird mannerisms.

Posted by: 44fx290 | June 8, 2010 10:10 AM | Report abuse

Well, I guess you had run out of material. Now it's time to write about the bleeding obvious and make it sound revelatory.

When the GENIUS hired Allen it signaled another marketing throwback, this time to the Over the Hill Gang. With contract commitments, he could't quite begin again, but they're doing an admirable job hiring almost used up vets. All we need now is for Bruce Allen to channel his Dad's weird mannerisms.

Posted by: 44fx290 | June 8, 2010 10:16 AM | Report abuse

When you are 4-12, I would expect little retention. We actually have a lot more than I would expect.

Posted by: skins50 | June 8, 2010 10:20 AM | Report abuse

Well if you are 4-12, then there should be some turnover.

Posted by: impervious99 | June 8, 2010 10:33 AM | Report abuse

OK some times I can be a noob about things but...

Was it really that the offensive line was well so offensive or was it a lot of problems.

Zorn calling plays?

Zorn not calling plays?

Receivers who catch the ball almost as good as Carlos Rodgers?

Primary running back never on the field.

A quarterback who thought the hand off was a going away present that he was determined to keep?

Jason Campbell a Leader with no fire.

I wonder was our offensive line that bad or could any one of the above also have been a problem.

Posted by: Brian429 | June 8, 2010 12:38 PM | Report abuse

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