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Your Call: Who Will Win?

Two teams, one win between them...put on your fortune-teller hat and predict the Tampa Bay-Redskins result.


By Cindy Boren  |  September 29, 2009; 8:30 AM ET
 
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Next: Cartwright Waits for the Rock

Comments

beantown

"What about John Fox..."


As defensive coordinator next year?

Sure.

But I think Zorn will return with restrictions:

a. Sherm or Miedt calls plays

b. Zorn oversees the entire team

c. Olivadotti or Fox manages the D

Zorn is a good coach who's learning on the fly.

His playcalling isn't bad: his overall game management is.

Zorn can't call plays and manage the entire team.

Snyder will give him a season--next year--to prove if he can.

And if he can't, Fox (or whomever) gets promoted.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 8:38 AM | Report abuse

Time to BLOW IT UP

Build the team around the following players :

on defense :

Reed Doughty
Chris Horton
Albert Haynesworth
Jeremy Jarmon
Brian Orakpo
Kareem Moore
Kevin Barnes

on offense :

Malcom Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Marko Mitchell
Marcus Mason

Everybody else can go.

Posted by: TheTruth11

Posted by: TheTruth11 | September 29, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse

Moe, this team has already screwed the pooch by getting a D-coordinator (Marvin Lewis) better than the head coach (Spurrier). No thanks. John Fox is a head coach in this league, he's proved it time and time again. If the Skins don't get him in that role, someone else will.

He is a great D-coordinator though...on my Madden season I canned Zorn immediately and have Russ Grimm as HC, Norv Turner as OC and Fox as DC. A man can dream, right?

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 8:44 AM | Report abuse

what about a grimm as the hc/fox as the dc combo....a guy can dream can't he....

what is going to pain me/us, is that if portis continues to look old/slow, instead of drafting a bunch of OL types, the team will draft a qb then a rb next year.....sigh....lather rinse repeat....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Time to BLOW IT UP

Build the team around the following players :

on defense :

Reed Doughty
Chris Horton
Albert Haynesworth
Jeremy Jarmon
Brian Orakpo
Kareem Moore
Kevin Barnes

on offense :

Malcom Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Marko Mitchell
Marcus Mason


Everybody else can go.

Posted by: TheTruth11


Posted by: TheTruth11 | September 29, 2009 8:41 AM | Report abuse


What on God's green earth have the likes of Doughty, Jarmon, Moore, Barnes, Kelly, Mason, Thomas, Davis and Mason done in the NFL to lead someone to believe that a team could be "built" around these guys???

Just because they are young?

Does the ability to play pro football factor into your plan on any level?

Posted by: p1funk | September 29, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

Truth, if that list is your core group to build around, this team is truly sorry. Haynesworth, JJ and Orakpo are the only ones on D you could make a solid case for and I would only include Haynesworth because his cap number alone keeps him here for the next 4-5 years.

The ENTIRE offense needs to be blown up. There's nothing there you can salvage.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 8:48 AM | Report abuse

I don't see Zorn making it through the season, let alone sticking around for next season. This might finally be the year where Snyder says he needs to get a Bill Parcells type of President of Football Operations and let him put in his own GM, head coach, etc. If they could only lure Ozzie away from the Ravens...

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 29, 2009 8:50 AM | Report abuse

Jason , jason , jason should we go thru thus again what does it matter who wins. This season is over DUDE.. I will have my paper bag b/c i can see a 14-10 kind of game. another squeaker win and . Zorn will say how much they exzcuted against another worst team in the leauge who CARES JASON this team has given up on ZORN>>>> THIS season is over PUT GRandma to BED Jason

Posted by: chinngy23 | September 29, 2009 8:51 AM | Report abuse

what is going to pain me/us, is that if portis continues to look old/slow, instead of drafting a bunch of OL types, the team will draft a qb then a rb next year.....sigh....lather rinse repeat....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 8:48 AM


You have to know that's coming, despite the fact that RB is the easiest spot to find on the street. Look at New Orleans with Pierre Thomas...that dude literally fell into their laps and now he starts over Reggie Bush.

Funny thing is some folks up here thought we could get another 3-4 years out of Portis. Completely laughable when you take into account how many carries he's had in Washington alone. Those hits take a toll and not everyone is gonna be as durable as Emmitt Smith in his prime.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Funny thing is some folks up here thought we could get another 3-4 years out of Portis. Completely laughable when you take into account how many carries he's had in Washington alone. Those hits take a toll and not everyone is gonna be as durable as Emmitt Smith in his prime.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 8:55 AM | Report abuse

I admit I thought we could get another year out of him as a no 1 back and have him split carries with some young guys for 2-3 years. Now I agree, it wont work out that way.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 29, 2009 9:03 AM | Report abuse

Again, didn't watch the game, but did the last two. The coarching is doing NOTHING to aid the run game. There's no deception or mis-direction.

Dallas did ALL their yards on well executed draw plays. They have the 3rd heaviest O LIne in the league and they STILL employ mis-direction to get the yardage.

There is so much wrong with this team and it is NOT the players. Their attitudes, maybe, but who's fault is that?!? (that was rhetorical).

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 29, 2009 9:04 AM | Report abuse

Guys,
This team has a ton of talent - on both sides of the ball. Yes, there are a few weak spots like right tackle specifically and offensive line depth in general, but most of the pieces are together. This all falls back to poor coaching and play calling. Do you think Greg Williams would love to have this group of defensive players in New Orleans? Of course he would. Do you think the Redskins offensive players are any worse than the Falcons offensive unit? Nope. It is just that the Falcons and Saints have the players motivated and are calling the right plays.

It is truly all about coaching right now. Look at what is happening in the media. Do you read all of the different points of view from the players? These guys need a strong coach to tell them what they need to do to get better. No one is doing that. Zorn says he is relying on his team captains to keep the players focused and then you read Fletcher saying the team is not very and has not been very good since he arrived. That's bad. The coach has not imposed his will upon this team. The players are not responding. It has nothing to do with the talent of the players and everything to do with the coaching.

If Snyder was smart, he would hire Mike Shanahan today. He would demote Zorn to some nebulous position like "assistant head coach - quarterbacks" saying "Zorn needs more seasoning and will get his chance again, but we think the best thing for the team right now is for Jim to focus on the quartrback play and for Mike to run the the team". He might also think about replacing defensive line coach Palermo in the same fell swoop.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 29, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

What we are doing is not working. Try something different. Here's a few ideas.

Smoot has to go. Bring in Barnes. Barnes will get burned but at least he'll get better and he may knock someones block off. That kind of stuff can really fire up a defense. Smoot is only going to get worse. Barnes will only get better.

Marko Mitchell needs to play. DT11 and MK12 are not getting it done. Give the guy a shot on gameday and put all the preconceived notions about draft position behind you. Let the best player play.

Portis is injured. Deactivate him and bring in Marcus Mason. Save Portis for the end of the season. Mason is pretty much the same back anyway. Isn't this why he's on the roster in the first place? Mason is a young hungry player. He will get that 1 yard on 4th down simply because his entire future depends on it. Portis seems unmotivated and unwilling to take a hit. Let Mason try to make a name for himself. Alternatively, let Sellers run the ball with Cooley lead blocking. That's a train I wouldn't want to get hit by.

Let's see Alridge on third downs. Try checking down to him instead of betts. He could be a game breaker. Work on the fumbles in practice.

Bring in BMW on short yardage running plays or all plays if Heyer doesn't get better. Right now we can't run or pass right. BMW will at least allow us to run.

Try Orakpo at DE and Chris Wilson at SLB(we may already be doing this on third down but I'd like to see it on every down).

Move Laron Landry up to strong safety and start Kareem Moore at free safety.

DT11 needs to return punts and kickoffs.

Try Phillip Daniels at DT this week in practice. Who the hell knows? Crazier things have worked. He's got the strength.

Posted by: PAskinsfan17 | September 29, 2009 9:08 AM | Report abuse

Zorn will get another chance?! to what? screw another pooch?! Why?!!!!

Seriously what has this guy done that should allow him another shot anywhere ever?!?

This team did better when they were converting from the last coach. Once his influence was gone & Zorn was fully 'in control' they turned to SJK.

End it NOW!

I realize they probably won't, but they need to.

Posted by: DikShuttle | September 29, 2009 9:10 AM | Report abuse

I just read Dan post about LaVar. He really just needs to move on.

Posted by: jm220 | September 29, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

BTW, I don't think Portis is nearly as beat up as they say. The guy is out of shape. They let him off easy in the preseason and now he's keeping out of practice because he has dents and bruises. If this coach has a pair, he would tell Portis no practice, no play.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 29, 2009 9:11 AM | Report abuse

I thought I read that Shanahan was going around to teams with his coaching staff to check out various potential opportunities. The key part of that being "with his coaching staff". I don't think you're going to see Zorn there in any capacity if Shanahan comes on board. I'm not sure about Blache either, and right now I'm hating Blache but then again - Denver's defense was laughable when Shanahan was there.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 9:14 AM | Report abuse

But I think Zorn will return with restrictions:

a. Sherm or Miedt calls plays

b. Zorn oversees the entire team

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 8:38 AM

This should be the end result of this weeks conversation w/ Snyder. Zorn has too much on his plate. He needs to let his staff help him through this period.

Posted by: TWISI | September 29, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

REX, I've always found Blache to be overrated here. I remember when he was the Bears D-coordinator and it never seemed like he got the most of that roster despite the amount of talent he had there. His best year there they went 13-3 and promptly lost in the divisional round.

I'm all for a complete house cleaning. Right now half of Zorn's staff is old Gibbs guys anyway so just move on to the next regime and start from scratch.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 9:21 AM | Report abuse

"I don't see Zorn making it through the season, let alone sticking around for next season. This might finally be the year where Snyder says he needs to get a Bill Parcells type of President of Football Operations and let him put in his own GM, head coach, etc. If they could only lure Ozzie away from the Ravens..."


"I don't see Zorn making it through the season, let alone sticking around for next season. This might finally be the year where Snyder says he needs to get a Bill Parcells type of President of Football Operations and let him put in his own GM, head coach, etc. If they could only lure Ozzie away from the Ravens..."


"I don't see Zorn making it through the season, let alone sticking around for next season. This might finally be the year where Snyder says he needs to get a Bill Parcells type of President of Football Operations and let him put in his own GM, head coach, etc. If they could only lure Ozzie away from the Ravens..."


"I don't see Zorn making it through the season, let alone sticking around for next season. This might finally be the year where Snyder says he needs to get a Bill Parcells type of President of Football Operations and let him put in his own GM, head coach, etc. If they could only lure Ozzie away from the Ravens..."

Thank you, I have been saying this for the past 2 years. And I keep praying that finally it may happen... only problem is that all I am hearing is the same old... "Well I think we did really well against detroit it was a tough loss, we all support our coach blah blah"

Posted by: FudgeDanSnyder | September 29, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

"What on God's green earth have the likes of Doughty, Jarmon, Moore, Barnes, Kelly, Mason, Thomas, Davis and Mason done in the NFL to lead someone to believe that a team could be "built" around these guys???

Just because they are young?

Does the ability to play pro football factor into your plan on any level?


Posted by: p1funk"

Doughty is solid as hell. He has been playing really well this year and one of the few on the D that can actually tackle.

Barnes is young and athletic. No point in cutting him just for the hell of it.

Jarmon has been playing okay, and yes, he is young. Would you rather we get younger players who suck or older players who suck?

Kelly, Thomas, and Davis are what we got. I can't help but think Kelly and/or Thomas would be doing just as good as any of the NY Giants' WR's are doing right now. Gotta give 'em a chance to perform. Same with Davis, but I'm also counting on having a decent TE after we trade Cooley.

Mason you might as well keep around to be a backup RB.

Not saying those guys are all world-beaters, but you have to start somewhere, even if it means keeping a younger guy to be a backup RB.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | September 29, 2009 9:22 AM | Report abuse

I think it boils down to two things; attitude/effort, and the OLline. The attitude/effort piece falls to the coaches. I watched J Tryon as the gunner on one punt return Sunday….he whiffed on the tackle and fell to the ground when the guy juked him. Then he just laid there and watched the guy run upfield. In football you should be coached to hit the ground and bounce back up as quickly as you can; play whistle to whistle. Doesn’t look like the skins have a whistle to whistle attitude, and that is the fault of the coaches. And if Greg Blache still feels that qb sacks are not important, then someone should tell him that a rookie qb on a team that had lost 19 straight just lit up his d like a 10 year vet. You don’t see poor efforts like Sunday’s on a team run by other coaches….I like Zorn and think he could be a good O-coordinator, but he just does not have this team “whipped into shape”. I guess I’m aboard the Russ Grimm bandwagon for next year unless Zorn somehow gets the ship righted. I look at what Rex Ryan is doing with the jets and just have to think that at least half of their success stems from his attitude/philosophy. I do not want to see a mid season change, but I want to see a “strong” HC….

The Oline is just not getting the job done either. They certainly aren’t showing the attitude or effort I just spoke about….but I think they need a serious talent upgrade through the draft and/or free agency. Zero rushing yards in the first half pretty much tells it all. Sadly, I think our FO will not recognize that Campbell is a player to keep and wil look to draft a QB in Rd1 of the draft instead of going oline. Maybe if a new coach comes in he will have some sort of say in who they draft.

Most of the pieces are set…they just need to relearn how to play, and show some fire.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 29, 2009 9:26 AM | Report abuse

This should be the end result of this weeks conversation w/ Snyder. Zorn has too much on his plate. He needs to let his staff help him through this period.


Posted by: TWISI | September 29, 2009 9:20 AM | Report abuse

I second the motion. Let Sherm Smith call the plays, and let Zorn worry about managing the game from the sidelines. Just because he isn't the playcaller doesn't mean he can't work on the gameplan, consult with Smith about what calls to make, adjustments, etc. Less is more!

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

Prople are writing Portis off too early....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 9:27 AM | Report abuse

I'm also counting on having a decent TE after we trade Cooley.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | September 29, 2009 9:22 AM


Good plan. Trade the best and most consistent performer on your offense so you can see what you've got in a guy who can't even wake his ass up on time for practice. Brilliant.

Vinny, is that you?

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

no point in discussing who stays and who goes, the new coach will decide that, that is if the owner gets rid of vincent and hires a gm who hires a new coach and backs up said coach. which is all just a pipe dream.... still there is always hope

Posted by: Burrasta1 | September 29, 2009 9:31 AM | Report abuse

admit I thought we could get another year out of him as a no 1 back and have him split carries with some young guys for 2-3 years. Now I agree, it wont work out that way.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 29, 2009 9:03

Oh yeah??? Watch. It WILL work out that way because portis is Dannys boy and more importantly he has his contract restructured to the point that we can't afford to cut him. Having said that, I think he is a cancer on this team. a piss poor leader when you consider all he gets paid and all the accomodations this team has made for him and his SORE body after having the entire offseason off. Hell, its a big deal to evrybody when he shows up for OTAs or voluntary workouts..he's a diva and he is past his prime. We cut the great ART MONK for salary cap reasons back before the inmates ran the asylum, its time to return to that type of thinking and remember that these players are spokes in the wheel and the NFL still stands for NOT FOR LONG - except in washington if you're the Danny's BOY

Posted by: scottmando | September 29, 2009 9:32 AM | Report abuse

"What about John Fox, he's probably on his way out in Carolina after this year....just throwing stuff out there...

Posted by: BeantownGreg"

A harmonic convergence? I was thinking this exact same thing last night. John Fox is a very good coach. The Panthers might have a had a few bad seasons during his long tenure, but never back to back. I would be fully on board.

My bromance with Russ Grimm non withstanding, I would love to see a defensive HC, and a youngish OC with some fresh ideas....not a 4th gen LT in an old system.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 9:29 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 9:34 AM | Report abuse

Cut D. Thomas to send a message.

Posted by: BarackObama | September 29, 2009 9:35 AM | Report abuse

campell is done, go with collins.

Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 29, 2009 9:37 AM | Report abuse

UM, I refuse to vote in these dumb azz polls anymore. Mad lame.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

I don't believe any wholesale changes will happen this year. Zorn as an OC is below average at best but as a HC with a good OC calling plays maybe....I don't see a high profile coach coming here under Snyder. Theres one thing more important to Snyder than winning and that is micro mananging his organization. We'll have to wait until he gets better at it or eventually puts a higher premium on winning.....

Posted by: myrtle_beach_fan | September 29, 2009 9:38 AM | Report abuse

Short term: I think they should consider sitting Portis until the bye. Let those ankles calm down and whatever else is wrong. He doesn't look right. Put the next 4 games in Campbell's hands, using draws and screens (Betts is better at those anyway) to keep the pressure off.

Long term: Stick with Zorn and the commitment to building a West Coast offense. Draft an OT prospect in Round 1 who can start at RT for experience next year and swap with Samuels the year after to extend his career. At least one more pick in the first three should be an O-lineman. Consider a change at D-coordinator only if things don't improve. Also consider the best available free safety with the remaining one of our top 3 picks. This draft is heavy on them and it would allow Landry to move back to strong safety and Horton to take Doughty's roll in that 3-safety package we run so much.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

campell is done, go with collins.
Posted by: cavalieri10 | September 29, 2009 9:37 AM

Oh right…..340 yds, 2tds. Collins surely would have thrown for 500 yds and 6tds….

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 29, 2009 9:39 AM | Report abuse

My Top 5 Head Coaching Wish List:

1. Russ Grimm
2. Russ Grimm
3. John Fox*
4. Mike Shannahan
5. Brian Schottenheimer

*If available at season's end

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

"Stick with Zorn and the commitment to building a West Coast offense."

No thanks..

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

haha, I don't vote either cl...just seems like a waste...how about an update on injuries, or a review on how Rhino played, or talk to Wynn about being inactive for 3 games, SOMETHING other than a stupid poll....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

jm220

"I just read Dan post about LaVar."


Memba this Top 3?:

Chris Samuels
Peter Warrick
LaVar Arrington

Mr. Arrington can holla all he wants, but someone should kindly remind him, he--like Pete Warrick--never lived up to all the great claims made about him.

Yes he was a Pro Bowler.

He also was a freelancer, couldn't read his contract, and retired a shadow of his old Penn State self.

And when you keep beefing after you left the game, you're kinda like the hand from the grave: creepy.

Move on, LaVar, move on.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 9:41 AM | Report abuse

That loss totally looked like it was Campbell's fault, lol.

They need to put the ball in Campbell's hands in the red zone. Roll him out and let him make a play. It will only happen once or twice and we will find there is room to run down there.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

I am for giving Collins a shot in a 4th quarter where the game is either out of reach or (and this is a LONG SHOT) when we are ahead by like 21.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 29, 2009 9:42 AM | Report abuse

"Stick with Zorn and the commitment to building a West Coast offense."

No thanks..

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Why not? So we can hire Shanahan for his zone-blocking thing and when he hasn't won the division in his first 19 games we can give up on that and start over again?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

anger gives way to dellusion.

Posted by: dealer1 | September 29, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Arrington is a bitter underachiever.

His play didn't make anyone forget about Ken Harvey, Monte Coleman or Chris Hanburger.

I'd take Neal Olkewicz on my team every time over Arrington.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 29, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

My Top 5 Head Coaching Wish List:

1. Russ Grimm
2. Russ Grimm
3. John Fox*
4. Mike Shannahan
5. Brian Schottenheimer

*If available at season's end

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM | Report abuse

Just so I can Mark it down, what does their record have to be for you to not give up on them after 19 games? 9-10 obviously = give up. Is 10-9 a different story? Do they need to be 13-6 with a fourth Lombardi in the case? Just let everyone know in advance.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

It’s all about the oline. Recorded the Dallas/Carolina game and am watching it now. Dallas is down to their 3rd string RB (T. Choice) and he is lighting up the Carolina d…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 29, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

Why not? So we can hire Shanahan for his zone-blocking thing and when he hasn't won the division in his first 19 games we can give up on that and start over again?

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:44 AM | Report abuse

Why should Zorn get another year? Things have regressed under him not progressed.

Can you point to one thing that tells you Jim Zorn should be here in 5 years?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 29, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

lavar didn't make anyone forget lemar marshall, forget about those other guys.....heck, lavar barely made us forget about dallas sartz.....KIDDING...

I'm not sure about shanny coming here....seems like at the end of it things were in a downward spiral in denver...not sure I want that here...could he be in it just for one last money grab, thats what it seems like to me.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 9:51 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn's record so far is as troublesome as his bizarre decisions.

Going for it on 4th and 1 in the first quarter of a scoreless game. Then later taking the penalty instead of forcing Detroit to attempt a FG.

The second decision is probably the worst. You NEVER let an opposing offense have a second chance to convert a third down.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 29, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

Just so I can Mark it down, what does their record have to be for you to not give up on them after 19 games? 9-10 obviously = give up. Is 10-9 a different story? Do they need to be 13-6 with a fourth Lombardi in the case? Just let everyone know in advance.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:47 AM | Report abuse

Its not about the Record, its about can you see if the coach has "it". Zorn does not.

Posted by: alex35332 | September 29, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

mr.'s dellusional(mhaslup1, greg, mistamoe), it's not zorn's record that we're upset about it's his inability to IMPROVE in any aspect of the game in 27 games and 2 full preseasons. rather regression of this team from last year to this year is as noticeable as vinny's eyes and danny's boobs. first 8 games were a fluke.

Posted by: dealer1 | September 29, 2009 9:55 AM | Report abuse

beeps......another waste...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 9:57 AM | Report abuse

not sure you can post comments on this new post however.....hmmmmm

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:00 AM | Report abuse

Just so I can Mark it down, what does their record have to be for you to not give up on them after 19 games? 9-10 obviously = give up. Is 10-9 a different story? Do they need to be 13-6 with a fourth Lombardi in the case? Just let everyone know in advance.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:47 AM


I'll settle for not getting worse as you go along. I can't remember a coach starting off so hot as Zorn did and completely morphing into Spurrier 2.0. It seems like his team gets worse every week. The guys I listed wouldn't do that.

So if you're short-sighted enough to look at Zorn's 9-10 record alone, then it looks hasty. But if you consider that's 3-8 in his last 11 (including losses to Cincinnati and Detroit), you have to weigh that heavier.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 10:01 AM | Report abuse

why can't the skins be as fun as the raiders? at least their mediocrity looks fun. psycho owner, mob like coaches, strange mix of players...

Posted by: dealer1 | September 29, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

Enough of the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Firing Zorn or benching Campbell now will accomplish nothing positive, you won't be able to bring in a Cowher or Shanahan mid-season (assuming they would even consider the gig). The Redskins will have to take their lumps while Zorn & Co. try to devise a workable offense for Campbell & Co. They are what they are (and what some of us thought they were all along) and not much can be done this season. Zorn will likely be fired at the end of the season and Campbell's fate will be decided by the next head coach. The only hope is for Snyder to face reality and hire a real GM with complete authority to begin a rational building process. Until then it's pointless to call for heads to roll when the problem is at the highest level of the organization.

Posted by: SackMan | September 28, 2009 8:13 PM


I was going to take a break from my vacation to say everyone needs to calm the heck down, but then I read the above from SackMan last night, and he pretty much said everything.

The team you see on the field today is the product of 12 years of chronic impatience on the part of the owner. Some Redskins fans need to stop and think for a minute about what they're advocating when they call for wholesale changes yet again. They're asking for more of the same tactic that has created most of our beloved team's problems.

Snyder, for all his faults, has actually started to show a few glimmers of hope over the last year or two that he's starting to get it. Credit Joe Gibbs + the patience that comes with age for that. Snyder's obviously still got a long way to go, but for you fans who are calling for him to "blow it up" once again, understand that you're encouraging him back into the same old ways that created the mess we're in right now.

This is gonna hurt for a while, folks. The problem wasn't created in a day, and it's not going to be fixed in a day. But we need to ride the horses we've got for a while and give them a chance to try to figure it out.

Prior to coming to DC, Zorn had never called a play from the sidelines nor been a head coach. He's now 9-10 in a job with a very steep learning curve. I'm as frustrated and dumbfounded as anyone with some of the calls he's made, but really -- he'd never done the job prior to last season, so did any of us expect him not to make some dumb mistakes?

For those intent on calling for wholesale change yet again, that's your prerogative. But if you're going to do that, you should refrain from ever again criticizing Snyder, because you're following his model exactly.

Okay, I guess I did have something to add. But yeah, move Cerrato elsewhere in the organization (I'm being realistic, Snyder's not going to outright fire him), hire an actual GM, and make Snyder's role signing checks. Let the GM handle the rest, as SackMan and others have said.

Posted by: freakzilla | September 29, 2009 10:03 AM | Report abuse

Just so I can Mark it down, what does their record have to be for you to not give up on them after 19 games? 9-10 obviously = give up. Is 10-9 a different story? Do they need to be 13-6 with a fourth Lombardi in the case? Just let everyone know in advance.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 9:47 AM

And how is he trending?
Remember he inherited a playoff team. And to me it looks like they are getting worse the more time they spend around him.

If you will, please point out 1 Jim Zorn accomplishment that tells you he should be HC here in 5 years.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 29, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

Dealer...I'll go one further...

The NORV years were soooooo much better than the Zorn years! Atleast we were scoring in the 20s EVERY GAME. And we actually had leads throughout the games. We would just lose it by the time the game ended.

But we had REAL offensive stats. Not the statpadding that's been going on with this crew and JC17....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:06 AM | Report abuse

why can't the skins be as fun as the raiders? at least their mediocrity looks fun. psycho owner, mob like coaches, strange mix of players...

Posted by: dealer1 | September 29, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

True...maybe a story will come out about Zorn punching Danny Smith in the face, or better yet a locker room scrum highlighted by Danny Snyder leaching on to Haynesworth's leg and holding on for dear life, a la Jeff Van Gundy...

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 10:07 AM | Report abuse

Nah, I don't believe that.

The old "this team is the product of 12 years of impatience" is just a meaningless catch-all.

This 2009 roster has enough talent on it that the right coach (and assistant coaches) should be able to get 10 wins out of it this year.

The question is: Where is that coach (and coaches)?

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 29, 2009 10:08 AM | Report abuse

I don't think Zorn's record so far is as troublesome as his bizarre decisions.

Going for it on 4th and 1 in the first quarter of a scoreless game. Then later taking the penalty instead of forcing Detroit to attempt a FG.

The second decision is probably the worst. You NEVER let an opposing offense have a second chance to convert a third down.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 29, 2009 9:53 AM | Report abuse

I had no problem with the first decision (and Portis should have been able to get in). I agree that the second decision was a terrible mistake. I understand that he was trying to take 3 points off the board, but he needed to help the defense out there.

My point is this: Zorn was never even a coordinator before he got here, so the only reason to hire him is if you (or Dan/Vin) believe he has potential to DEVELOP into a good coach. You have to anticipate there are going to be gaffes - even terrible, embarassing gaffes - while he learns the ropes. If you can't accept that, you don't hire him in the first place. Give the man time. What's another couple years? We haven't been any good in a couple DECADES!

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

True...maybe a story will come out about Zorn punching Danny Smith in the face, or better yet a locker room scrum highlighted by Danny Snyder leaching on to Haynesworth's leg and holding on for dear life, a la Jeff Van Gundy...

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 10:07 AM


Now THAT I would pay 9 bucks to see...unlike anything Danny's boy Tom Cruise stars in.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 10:11 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"...not sure you can post comments on this new post however.....hmmmmm"

Well, then answer this question, what standard must Campbell meet in order to receive an extension?

We Know:

He will have the passing yards....

But he won't have the tochdowns....

He'll play better out of the 'Zorn-spread'...

But he won't have the wins....

He'll have a high completion rate....

But the team won't make the playoffs...

Verdict: sign him to a low ball, incentive-laden deal and draft a top five quarterback to replace him.

Rodney Harrison is right: Soup is not what's for dinner--it's a substitute for the real thing.

Chioces?: Jake Locker, Sam Bradford

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 10:12 AM | Report abuse

If they fall to Tampa Bay, Collins will start the following week.

Posted by: MrRedskin21 | September 29, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

you guys hear about the RB from USC who dropped the bar on his throat while benching.....yikes that had to hurt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

It’s all about the oline. Recorded the Dallas/Carolina game and am watching it now. Dallas is down to their 3rd string RB (T. Choice) and he is lighting up the Carolina d…..

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 29, 2009 9:50 AM | Report abuse

No doubt the OL is important. However, Dallas didn't start rolling until their defense stood up. I think it was 4 straight 3 and outs. The offense got several short field positions and SURPRISE the scored TDs. I think the most disappointing development so far this season is the skins D inability to get off the field.

Posted by: TWISI | September 29, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

I had no problem with the first decision (and Portis should have been able to get in). I agree that the second decision was a terrible mistake. I understand that he was trying to take 3 points off the board, but he needed to help the defense out there.

My point is this: Zorn was never even a coordinator before he got here, so the only reason to hire him is if you (or Dan/Vin) believe he has potential to DEVELOP into a good coach. You have to anticipate there are going to be gaffes - even terrible, embarassing gaffes - while he learns the ropes. If you can't accept that, you don't hire him in the first place. Give the man time. What's another couple years? We haven't been any good in a couple DECADES!

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 10:10 AM | Report abuse

2 things. If you are fine with the decision to go for it. Do you also agree that we should have run left? The defense could put all 11 players on the left and we would still run that way.

Since you asked what Zorn has to do for us to be satisfied. How long until you are willing to admit the Jim Zorn era was one big mistake. You are defending him at 3-8 over the last 11. At what record does this end?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 29, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

you guys hear about the RB from USC who dropped the bar on his throat while benching.....yikes that had to hurt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Yeah...the story says he was being spotted too...how in the heck did that happen, I wonder?

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

"Verdict: sign him to a low ball, incentive-laden deal and draft a top five quarterback to replace him"

This idea, makes me sick to my stomach, is probably close to reality of what needs to be done...........

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:19 AM | Report abuse

twisi

"I think the most disappointing development so far this season is the skins D inability to get off the field."

That's because the skins' D is built to stop power backs in a world where speed kills.

That's why the Haynesworth signing made no sense.

At least not to me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

you guys hear about the RB from USC who dropped the bar on his throat while benching.....yikes that had to hurt...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:17 AM | Report abuse

Yeah...the story says he was being spotted too...how in the heck did that happen, I wonder?

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 10:18 AM


If his backup was the one spotting him, I think we know what happened.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO3mILC1xWU

A winner....How many wish we had actually tried to get Sanchez?

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:26 AM | Report abuse

If his backup was the one spotting him, I think we know what happened.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Well played, brownwood, well played...

Posted by: mattylight | September 29, 2009 10:27 AM | Report abuse

The problem with the D seems to be a lack of pressure on the QB. You can have a good DL but you still need to blitz. The Skins don't blitz in creative ways like other teams. Not under Blache.

Posted by: skinfanman | September 29, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO3mILC1xWU

A winner....How many wish we had actually tried to get Sanchez?

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:26 AM


Not me. Do you really think he'd still play like that with no ground game to speak of, receivers that can't get open and Zorn calling plays? He'd probably be dead by now...

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 10:34 AM | Report abuse

4thfloor

"A winner....How many wish we had actually tried to get Sanchez?"


I've eaten my crow with this guy--Sanchez--already.

But watch Jake Locker--Wash.

He's not bad and has a few comeback wins under his belt.

He's also a very athletic guy with touch and a strong arm.


Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

Its not about the Record, its about can you see if the coach has "it". Zorn does not.

Posted by: alex35332

It is actually all about the record. When the record doesn't look good, it's basically impossible to salvage any good will for the coach. I and other like me were trying to point out the positives in the first 3 games, but most people are just screaming "off with their heads". That's not going to change unless the RECORD changes.

You can find fault in a win or a loss, but you're more likely to focus on fault in a loss. You can find hope in a win or a loss, but you're more likely to find hope in a win. That's just a fact, record is everything because the record is the lens through which you judge the actions of the organization.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

The problem with the D is not pressure on the QB, it's discipline in maintaining assignments, and TACKLING in the open field. Hall and Landry yet again missed multiple opportunities to stop drives on 3rd downs, but either overran the play (Landry...again) or gave a lackluster effort on the tackle that was broken (Hall...again). That, combined with the gashing of the interior of the defense (mostly because the LBs were consistently fooled with the ghost endarounds by Calvin Johnson) was by far the biggest problem with this defense.

Posted by: psps23 | September 29, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Does the ability to play pro football factor into your plan on any level?
Posted by: p1funk | September 29, 2009 8:48 AM

^owned

seriously tho, how many more inexcusable losses before Zorn starts Tom rofl Collins or that midget or Colt "Bust" Brennan

Posted by: prescrunk | September 29, 2009 10:39 AM | Report abuse

you guys watch the way that the panthers blitzed the cowboys....why can't we do that again??

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:40 AM | Report abuse

"Not me. Do you really think he'd still play like that with no ground game to speak of, receivers that can't get open and Zorn calling plays? He'd probably be dead by now...

Posted by: brownwood26"

Dude, don't you understand? Good QBs win regardless of what's around them. The clear solution is to trade every draft pick we own for the next three years to get the #1 slot next year, draft a "winner" of a QB, then sit back and watch the Lombardi Trophies pile up.

Posted by: psps23 | September 29, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

beep

Posted by: alex35332 | September 29, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

Just read Lavar's twitter page on the other post and he had some interesting points.

No other former Redskins great likes Dan or even is associated with Dan except Sunny and Sam.

I think we need people like B-mitch and Lavar at Redskins park lighting a fire on the team.

It is true that everyperson that has a personality that clashes with the owner or just has a personality that will speak the truth will be banned from redskins park.

Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 29, 2009 10:42 AM | Report abuse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhTjtK2EcWc

I'm listening Moe. Tell me moe....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:44 AM | Report abuse

2 things. If you are fine with the decision to go for it. Do you also agree that we should have run left? The defense could put all 11 players on the left and we would still run that way.

Since you asked what Zorn has to do for us to be satisfied. How long until you are willing to admit the Jim Zorn era was one big mistake. You are defending him at 3-8 over the last 11. At what record does this end?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 29, 2009 10:18 AM | Report abuse

I didn't like the decision in the first place, but don't think there is any way to know right now whether it is a failure. I think his record is better than Holmgren's was in his first 19 games installing this offense in Seattle. I think it takes two years to know if an experienced coach was the right choice. In the case of a novice coach chosen for his "upside," probably three seasons.

I think the big difference between me and others is that I always believed that Zorn inherited a terrible team in terms of talent. I think Jas. Campbell is our best offensive player. Maybe Samuels when he's healthy, but he's not. How is a loss to the Lions inexcusable? WE'RE NOT MUCH BETTER THAN THE LIONS! The sooner people realize that, the better.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

psp, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT point. Missed tackles are KILLING this team....they simply have to tighten that up....LL, Smoot, Hall, just awful...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

I was thinking last night of writing the same small letter to Dan that just says "If you were a real fan, you would sell the team". And I'd send it every day from now until he sold the team. But I think I'd probably get arrested for stalking or harassment or something.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

go, I believe BMitch signed a 1-day deal so that he could retire a Redskin, not sure though...

lavar is just bitter, bitter about his contract, his career ending how it did, his motorcycle riding...etc.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

No beeps. Can't comment on the next thread.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

No other former Redskins great likes Dan or even is associated with Dan except Sunny and Sam.


Posted by: GreatOne1 | September 29, 2009 10:42 AM

And DGreen, and Gary Clark, and Ricky Sanders, And Brue Smith, and Deon Sanders, and Joe Theismann, and Riggo (until ESPN980 didn't renew his contract), and BMitch (until ESPN980 didn't renew his contract), and Doc Walker, and Tony McGee, and Don Warren

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Since you asked what Zorn has to do for us to be satisfied. How long until you are willing to admit the Jim Zorn era was one big mistake. You are defending him at 3-8 over the last 11. At what record does this end?

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8

It ends at the end of the season, unless he loses every game up to the bye week (but that wont happen). And at the end of the season, you judge Zorn by the offensive improvement. He obviously isn't dealing with the Defense at all, and if our trend continues and the offense improves and the defense declines, then you leave Zorn in place despite the record, and you fix the defensive situation.

If this was a normal team and we had a HC that could be blamed for both sides of the ball, then maybe you could just look at the overall record at the end of the year and kick him out. But our team is more complicated (dysfunctional), and you have to judge Zorn only by what Zorn can control. If the defense ends up losing us games this season, I don't think you can blame Zorn for that. The one advantage of Zorn IS in a way his inexperience and age. If he continues to improve, thanks to his youth, he could be our HC for two decades. So give the guy two seasons for Skins sake.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

beantown

"...you guys watch the way that the panthers blitzed the cowboys....why can't we do that again??"

Greg Williams blitzed.

Greg Blache plays scheme.

Grilliams is doing a fine job in Nawlins.

Blache is looking like he'll be the sacrificial fire before the season's end.

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

No beeps. Can't comment on the next thread.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 10:52 AM

I don't want to hear ish from you. Don't post here until the bye week. Rest up those fingers.....

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

I do believe that some of the running issues has to do with individual effort. Portis seems slow and always stumbles. Give Mason and Aldridge a chance. It can't get any worse, and oh yeah try running something then stretch left.

Posted by: FedorEm | September 29, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

moe, you're bringing the knowledge today, I could easily see that happening, and JGray sliding into the DC spot. This is a talented defense, they need to be sacking the qb more than they are, if not sacking, then knocking him down on EVERY pass play.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 11:00 AM | Report abuse

If this was a normal team and we had a HC that could be blamed for both sides of the ball, then maybe you could just look at the overall record at the end of the year and kick him out. But our team is more complicated (dysfunctional), and you have to judge Zorn only by what Zorn can control. If the defense ends up losing us games this season, I don't think you can blame Zorn for that. The one advantage of Zorn IS in a way his inexperience and age. If he continues to improve, thanks to his youth, he could be our HC for two decades. So give the guy two seasons for Skins sake.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Jim Zorn may be inexperienced, but he is not young. Zorn is 55 or 56, I don't expect him to coach for 2 decades.

If we only measure what Jim Zorn is in-charge of (Game management and offense) I would say he is failing at both of these currently. I agree he should get to the end of the season if he can put together some wins before the bye week.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8 | September 29, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

I don't want to hear ish from you. Don't post here until the bye week. Rest up those fingers....

Posted by: 4thFloor

Don't be mad 'Twan


Think of me as one of your homies that told you your girl was stepping out on you.

That's what happens when you put too much into the Redskins. Every year you feel that they slept with someone else.

Unfaithful b**ches...

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 11:05 AM | Report abuse

If we only measure what Jim Zorn is in-charge of (Game management and offense) I would say he is failing at both of these currently. I agree he should get to the end of the season if he can put together some wins before the bye week.

Posted by: PortisPocketsStr8

Oh I certainly agree that he's failing if you look at it dualistically. But I think the offense is showing improvement each week, which is why I think he deserves more time.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren actually won before going to Seattle. Jim Zorn has done nothing. Granted it isn't his fault we have 2 complete idiots stupid enough to hire him. The guy is a terrible head coach and a complete tool. He has to be fired at the end of the year. I don't want Shanahan really either. Guy is pushing 60. Can't we get a younger coach in here that has some balls and will give this team some kind of identity? I didn't think there was any possible way the offense could be worse and more conservative than it was for most of Gibbs 2nd stint but it is. How do they even know they can't run to the right. They don't even try.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | September 29, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

REXskins,
Are you saying that the Redskins lost the last three games because of the defense??? I will def acknowledge that the defense didn't look good in those three games, but, when the defense is holding teams under twenty, then the offense should be able to win it. The offense was sputtering the second half of last season, when the defense was ranked fourth and the team was losing. Face it: Zorn is not getting the job done. The offense is as anemic as it ever was but now we have an ineffective running game to go with our ineffective passing game and red zone offense. The quarterbacking is mediocre. Note how Colt Brennan took a giant step backward in his development under Zorn and how Campbell still doesn't check down his receivers. So, here's the Zorn checklist: quarterback coaching = pathetic, offensive play calling = mediocre, overall team play = pathetic. I don't see where this says Zorn is getting better. Why should the team hang on to him for the rest of the season?

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 29, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

September 28 4:52 ET LB London Fletcher on the Redskins: "We're not a great football team. Never have been during my time here."
LB London Fletcher on the Redskins: "We're not a great football team. Never have been during my time here."

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

September 28 2:33 ET
CB Carlos Rogers has a swollen ankle and is sore. He injured it in the first half Sunday against the Lions but returned to the game. Rogers expects to be ready for the Tampa Bay game Sunday.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:13 AM | Report abuse

September 28 2:08 ET RB
RB Clinton Portis was kicked in the shin during the Lions game Sunday. He's sore but said he will be fine.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/WAS/12280233

--The Redskins' offense moved up to 13th in yards per game thanks to two garbage-time drives.

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

REXskins,
Are you saying that the Redskins lost the last three games because of the defense???

Posted by: RedSkinHead | September 29, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

Are you saying that they lost the last three games? I thought they were 1-2.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 11:17 AM | Report abuse

RedSkinHead,
First off, we didn't lose the last 3 games, but I can forgive you for thinking we did, an it's besides the point. I think the defense lost us the Lions game. I think they performed decently against the Giants and poorly against the Rams. I am by no means saying that our Offense is good, and I acknowledge that above 20 points is what a decent offense should be scoring every game. But according to some stats, our offense is performing better than our defense. And the points allowed statistic is very deceiving, the fact is our defense has NOT played well, and our offense has not been on the field as much as a normal offense should be as a result.

What I'm saying is that the offense is getting better. No matter that the starting point is complete crap. If you look at the offensive drives, the play calling, the stretching the field. I think we're becoming more dynamic, and JC17 is developing rapport with his new receivers. It's not like it's a shotgun blast to the face of offensive productivity, but it's going in the RIGHT DIRECTION.

So I'm just saying, so long as we're currently improving, we should see how far we can improve before we cut the cord and start over from scratch. I'd rather see what we can develop right now than resign myself to another full rebuilding year.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

From the play by play, they ran to the right, and did so with a modicum of success:

Clinton Portis Off Right End to Was34 for 12 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right Tackle to Was49 for 4 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right End to Det49 for 14 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right Tackle to Det46 for 1 yard

4 rushes, 31 yards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Safety LaRon Landry said more team unity is required.

"If you have guys pointing fingers, that can be corrected," he said. "We have big time leaders on this team who can say something. As of right now, we're not coming together. It's pretty surprising, but, I don't know what to say about it. Something has to change."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/WAS/12280236

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Holmgren actually won before going to Seattle. Jim Zorn has done nothing. Granted it isn't his fault we have 2 complete idiots stupid enough to hire him. The guy is a terrible head coach and a complete tool. He has to be fired at the end of the year. I don't want Shanahan really either. Guy is pushing 60. Can't we get a younger coach in here that has some balls and will give this team some kind of identity? I didn't think there was any possible way the offense could be worse and more conservative than it was for most of Gibbs 2nd stint but it is. How do they even know they can't run to the right. They don't even try.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | September 29, 2009 11:06 AM | Report abuse

I'm just pointing out that even an experienced successful coach takes more than 19 games to have success with this offense and Holmgren had less success in a much easier division.

So...you want a young (probably inexperienced) coach with a lot of energy who wins almost immediately (presumably he cant be even one game under .500 after 19 tries like Zorn). Any suggestions? I think we should hire "Lightning in a Bottle."

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Cornerback Fred Smoot:


On cornerback DeAngelo Hall’s comments about the team seeming to lack urgency in the first half:
“That’s mindset, that’s where that comes in. We’re not going to point any fingers and say, ‘this guy’s mind wasn’t ready’ or ‘that guy’s mind wasn’t ready,’ because as a team, we weren’t ready. I think we’ve seen that more than anybody in the NFL here that individuals don’t win championships and don’t win playoff games – teams do. That’s what we’ve got to do - we’ve got to become a team. This is a bad time for us and hopefully we let it bring us together instead of split us apart.”

On if the players in the locker room are still on the same page as a team:
“I think everybody’s still on the same page, but it’s time now for us leaders to bring everybody together to see what we are, and get our identity. I think right now we’re struggling to find our identity, and we must find that in all three phases of the game.”

On if there are enough vocal leaders like him on the team:
“Well yeah, yeah there are. I’ve got a motto, and you might not believe it’s my motto, but it’s, ‘do so much so loud I can’t hear myself talking.’ So don’t worry about whose doing the talking and what’s being said. Until we go out there and put it on the field it doesn’t really matter because after the game the only thing that’s going to be said is the Lions beat the Redskins. It’s not going to be said who gave a great speech or all of that. It’s not college. Nobody is going to come in here and ‘Tim Tebow’ us and send us on a nine-game winning streak. It’s going to take everybody to get their minds together about what we need to do, and come together and do it.”

On if the players are still behind Head Coach Jim Zorn:
“Yeah, we are 100 percent. That’s our coach and that’s our leader. We’re following him.”

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:24 AM | Report abuse

I thought Blache calls blitzes more than most d-coordinators in the league.

They switch to a 3-4, it'll solve all their problems.

Blache is too worried about getting beat with the pass. That is why they hardly ever send LB's in on the blitz.

I'm telling you their is no such thing as bend in the NFL, you're bending you're already broke, and with that philosophy you're already conceding to the offense that you'll allow them yards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it's the defense responsibility to not allow yards?

Defense needs to be aggressive all the time. From 1st quarter till the end. Look at the Jets and Ravens. They can be up by 20 and they're still sending people at the QB.

Defense needs to be continuously aggressive.

And I'm never one for rankings. So that 4th ranked crap holds no weight for me.

The true way to know how good an offense, or defense is if they're able to move the ball and get stops when it matters most.

Even last year, there were games, especially in the final eight games, where the defense could not get off the field. Tired or no tired, your job is to stop the ball. If the defense is tired, then the offense should be as equally tired.

No more f'n excuses with this team. Get the g-damn job done. It's that simple. Even the good team, or teams that we think are going to be good have their issues.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

From the play by play, they ran to the right, and did so with a modicum of success:

Clinton Portis Off Right End to Was34 for 12 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right Tackle to Was49 for 4 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right End to Det49 for 14 yards
Clinton Portis Off Right Tackle to Det46 for 1 yard

4 rushes, 31 yards...

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

I think it was only successful BECAUSE they only did it 4 times. Heyer couldn't move me with his run blocking. Adequate pass protector but can't run block.

Posted by: mhaslup1 | September 29, 2009 11:25 AM | Report abuse

mh, whether you think it was or not, they did it, and they need to do it much more often....

red, agreed, send the house EVERY play, kill the brain, and the body will stop working...knock the qb around...heck landry is playing so far out of the picture that he should be able to knock any deep ball down......

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Safety LaRon Landry said more team unity is required.

"If you have guys pointing fingers, that can be corrected," he said. "We have big time leaders on this team who can say something. As of right now, we're not coming together. It's pretty surprising, but, I don't know what to say about it. Something has to change."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/report/WAS/12280236

Posted by: 4thFloor | September 29, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Interesting...wasn't LL called out on the Lavar show by O'Hallaran? Too many followers on this team. Too many!!

Posted by: TWISI | September 29, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

"We’re not going to point any fingers and say, ‘this guy’s mind wasn’t ready’ or ‘that guy’s mind wasn’t ready,’..."

Well dammit, GET YOUR MIND(S) RIGHT!

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

My Top 5 Head Coaching Wish List:

1. Russ Grimm
2. Russ Grimm
3. John Fox*
4. Mike Shannahan
5. Brian Schottenheimer

*If available at season's end

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 9:40 AM

I'd definetly take Fox. Better yet maybe Tennessee continues to slide and they let Jeff Fisher go. I'd grab him in a second if I were Snyder. Hey I can dream can't I.

Posted by: skinswest | September 29, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

I'd definetly take Fox. Better yet maybe Tennessee continues to slide and they let Jeff Fisher go. I'd grab him in a second if I were Snyder. Hey I can dream can't I.

Posted by: skinswest | September 29, 2009 11:33 AM


If Fisher comes available, you'd best believe there's gonna be a bidding war for his services. Skins and Cowdungs will make it a two man race since they'll throw the most money out there but I'd be willing to bet a minimum of 16 teams would at least discuss throwing their current coach under the bus to hire Fisher.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

I look at it this way with the Zorn hire. Never heard of the guy before the hire but I was not impressed by Vinny's opinion that he could be a great head coach. We all know Vinny's track record. Still I kept an open mind. I thought last year when Steeler fans took over FedEx that was about as low as it could get. Sunday losing to Detroit was rock bottom. Never been more embarrassed to be a Skins fan. This has to fall on the guy in charge. There is no progress.

Steelers were smart enough to hire Tomlin. For all the crap McDaniels was taking they have somehow opened up 3-0. Mike Singletary finally has restored respect to the 49ers. Rex Ryan, John Harbaugh. The list goes on and on with younger inexperienced coaches having success. All the success Zorn had at the start of last year is long gone. And he was one of the people apparently that didn't think it was essential to upgrade the offensive line. The experiment hasn't worked, it's blown up in our face and it is time to move on. Hopefully with a real football person at the top although I know that's a pipe dream.

Posted by: ToddStinkston | September 29, 2009 11:42 AM | Report abuse

Heyer is nothing more than a reserve tackle that happens to start.

Thing is, they're a few players on the 'skins that are starters but are probably more suited for back up roles.

First one that comes to mind is Campbell, then Portis (yeah, at this point he is), Heyer, Moss (I think he'll be better in the slot), Griffin, Daniels, and Hall (excels as the nickle CB, able to gamble more as the nick CB)

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 11:43 AM | Report abuse

If Fisher comes available, you'd best believe there's gonna be a bidding war for his services. Skins and Cowdungs will make it a two man race since they'll throw the most money out there but I'd be willing to bet a minimum of 16 teams would at least discuss throwing their current coach under the bus to hire Fisher.

Posted by: brownwood26 | September 29, 2009 11:39 AM

Throwing money is something Snyder's actually good at so I would like our chances. Doubt Fisher would be available though but I can hope.

Posted by: skinswest | September 29, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

"Never heard of the guy before the hire"

Really? Wow I am old, I remember when he played.

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

"If Fisher comes available"... Might as well ask for Lombardi to rise from his grave. Dream on.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

HELP

Can someone explain to me how an uncapped 2010 would help/hurt us?

Could we cut/trade anyone we want since the cap hit won't hurt us? Can we only trade RFAs? Can we trade anyone under contract? Could we theoretically get rid of EVERYONE and start with 53 new players?

Posted by: Rypien11 | September 29, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Couldn't agree more with red's 11:25 post. If I see Blache start to act all offended when people question why they aren't getting sacks, then somebody should smack him.

Posted by: dlhaze1 | September 29, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, his body language says "You're idiots for implying my immaculate defense is performing poorly", but his performance says otherwise.

Posted by: REXskins | September 29, 2009 11:58 AM | Report abuse

"Good plan. Trade the best and most consistent performer on your offense so you can see what you've got in a guy who can't even wake his ass up on time for practice. Brilliant.

Vinny, is that you?

Posted by: brownwood26 "

Absolutely. Because the best/most consistent player on our offense is a freaking tight end who last year had one TD pass on a trick play. Wow! Excuse me while I crap my pants in excitement.

Have fun holding on to all those "consistent" players. That's why we have an aging Portis, an aging OL, etc. Because they're all consistent and they continue to be consistent as they get old and soon they are consistently butt.

Trade Cooley for a high draft pick. We ain't winning with what we got in case yall haven't noticed it.

If we could trade Kelly, Thomas, and Davis for high draft picks, I'd be all for it, but we won't get anything for 'em and they are athletic. Again, you put any of them in the NY Giants system, I think they'd be doing just as good as the guys they got.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | September 29, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

"Excuse me while I crap my pants in excitement"

While I don't recommend doing this, to each their own I guess.....not trying to judge what other people do.....which is incredibly disgusting.....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 12:02 PM | Report abuse

Why do we keep talking about freakin' TRADES? This ain't major league baseball. Trades are far and few between in the NFL, and as the record shows, we usually get the short end of the stick any time there are draft picks on the table.

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | September 29, 2009 12:03 PM | Report abuse

Can we not comment on the new post b/c its like the 32nd time it has been posted about?

Posted by: chrislarry | September 29, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

"He's (Jake Locker) not bad and has a few comeback wins under his belt."

I hate to respond to my own post, but if you give me a second, it'll make sense.

I heard a an announcer say, "Sometimes what they are in college is what they'll be in the pros."

I've seen four, maybe five games with Jake Locker starting--dude can play.

He's as accurate as Sam Bradford and has Tim Tebow's will to win.

We don't see him because he plays on the wrong coast.

But the guy can play, so we add him to the list of "The Next New Redskins Savior."

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

LaVarr Arrington is not and should not go away.

To dismiss him just for being disgruntled for what happened to him is a little to easy.

What happened to Arrington should not have happened based upon the fact that they said that he was not a scheme player.

It was bigger than that and the Redskins were disengenuous about it.

I don't know whether it was Gibbs, Williams, or Snyder. The fact is, it happened.

He has a legitimate case for being pissed, but that does not discount what he is saying.

BeantownGreg1 and a lot of you regular posters on here that continually dismiss Arrington, without responding to what he has to say, lessens your own credibility.

Arrington is being paid in this Town to have an opinion and if his opinions were garbage, I am sure he would not be being paid for them.

What the heck does Cerrato know about Redskin Football? I know Bobby Mitchell would have been a 3-times better GM than him.

Arrington's point about Snyder really not being aligned with Redskins greats speaks volumes. Maybe, if he were, he would have known that you have to run a football camp and not 'don't get my presumed star players hurt from too much practice camp'.

And maybe if he were, he should have also known that LaVarr Arrington was arguably one of the best Defensive players in the game and the scheme should have been designed for him and not against him.

You Arrington haters need to get a clue. This is winning Football we are talking about and not just Hatin' and scoring blog points.

LarryInClintonMD.

Posted by: LarryInClintonMD | September 29, 2009 12:20 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skinswest | September 29, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

"Blache start to act all offended when people question why they aren't getting sacks,.."

Fire Blache?

Sure--some dude has to take a fall, and the team's money has been spent on a 'D' you can't defend.

Fire Blache? Why not?

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

thanks larry, tell us again how the team is out of shape......don't you have a nap or something else to attend to....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

beep beep, post on Tanya Snyder.

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | September 29, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

"...disengenuous..."

What....?

Dudes are using this kind of language in the blog?

Wait 'til the Redskins' Blog Onwer hears about this!!!!

Posted by: MistaMoe | September 29, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

The whole damn Redskin team is outta shape, and it has s*** to do with fatigue.

They've been gassed for quite sometime now.

Larry, totally disagree with Arrington or anyone else for that matter, with having an opinionated job and just because they do their opinion means something.

I don't have a problem with Arrington personally, but him, like Mitchell, feel that they were wronged by the organization. So every time they something negative about the 'skins (which is more often than not, but at the same time may have some validity to it) just comes off as bitter with a negative biased slant.

If it were someone like Darrell Green or some other Redskin great that feels they weren't wrong by the front office, then I'd say that they're just simply giving objectionable analysis.

Like I said though, even though Arrington and Mitchell come off like they have an axe to grind, I find myself nodding in approval when they're on one their "rants".

Especially Brian Mitchell on Sunday.

Posted by: RedDMV | September 29, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Yes, blow it up/.

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 29, 2009 12:45 PM | Report abuse

When did we become the Rams?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | September 29, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Time to BLOW IT UP

Build the team around the following players :

on defense :

Reed Doughty
Chris Horton
Albert Haynesworth
Jeremy Jarmon
Brian Orakpo
Kareem Moore
Kevin Barnes

on offense :

Malcom Kelly
Devin Thomas
Fred Davis
Marko Mitchell
Marcus Mason

Everybody else can go.

Posted by: TheTruth11

Sounds like the early Snyder years. Is that what you really want, REALLY? You want to see our core players on our competitors teams, REALLY?

You want to build a team around and RB that BARELY made any team at all, REALLY?

This is the last thing that this owner needs to see or hear about. This is the last thing this coach and these players need to read or hear about.

Boooooooooooooooooooooo to you

Posted by: pabrian2003 | September 29, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

First get a real GM and then blow it up. Offer up Cooley, JC, Santana, Landry, and Carlos Rogers as trade bait and get some picks. Cut Portis, Griffin, Randle El, Phillips, Wynn, matter of fact the entire D line except Haynesworth (cap hit). Trade London Fletcher to a contender so he has a chance for a Super Bowl. Build D around Orakpo and Rocky. It's a five year plan. It will take that long for this team to get better and younger.

Posted by: skinfannomore | September 29, 2009 1:46 PM | Report abuse

The skins can turn this thing around but Zorn and Blatche are gonna have to swallow their pride (especially blatche) and make adjustments. Blatche is gonna have to drop the vanilla stuff and get aggressive. Zorn is going to have to pass to set up the run. The organization is also going to have to adjust its attitude toward competition and stop guaranteeing spots (and playing time) to guys who don't produce.

Posted by: coparker5 | September 29, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The skins can turn this thing around but Zorn and Blatche are gonna have to swallow their pride (especially blatche) and make adjustments. Blatche is gonna have to drop the vanilla stuff and get aggressive. Zorn is going to have to pass to set up the run. The organization is also going to have to adjust its attitude toward competition and stop guaranteeing spots (and playing time) to guys who don't produce.

Posted by: coparker5 | September 29, 2009 2:26 PM | Report abuse

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