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Building through the Draft

We heard the rhetoric about continuity and getting younger and building through the draft all through last summer (back when Vinny Cerrato actually spoke), when the Redskins didn't even upgrade with one or two low-level free agents, and kept talking up their 10-man draft class.

So, with this season falling apart and the Redskins' talent level putting them back where virtually everyone picked them - last in the NFC East - they should be ready to reload and stock up on picks again, right?

Well, notsofast. I checked with the team to verify the draft picks for April, as it presently stands.

The Skins only have four picks in the seven-round draft right now, and only two in the first four rounds. Now, they could make a trade to get a few, which would be unprecedented for them prior to a draft). They may get a very late compensatory pick or two awarded them, but nothing high enough to offset not having a second- or fourth-round pick (a round in which strong organizations routinely find longtime starters).

So the Skins have a first-round pick (probably somewhere in the middle of the pack given their record).

The second-round pick is gone in the Jason Taylor trade (11/2 sacks for a 34-year-old with a $16.5 million contract).

They have a third-round pick.

The fourth-round pick is gone to the playoff bound Jets as part of the 2007 trade for LG Pete Kendall (who turns 36 this spring and is an unrestricted free agent). The Skins failed in the Todd Wade experiment at guard, the QB was getting crushed in the preseason, and so they over-paid bigtime for an aging veteran who had been dangled on the trade market for months (almost the exact same scenario as the Jason Taylor trade).

The Skins have their fifth- and sixth-round picks.

Their seventh-round pick is gone for DE Erasmus James, who was going to clear waivers as he was hurt, Cerrato traded a seventhr-round pick for him anyway, James remained unable to play through most of training camp, was active only a few times and, finally, they cut him a few weeks ago.

By Jason La Canfora  |  December 17, 2008; 4:30 PM ET
 
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Next: Michael Vouches for Abundant Talent; How About You?

Comments

"Well, notsofast. I checked with the team to verify the draft picks for April, as it presently stands."

I'm sure they loved getting that call.

"Oh god, it's him again."

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: AppleScience


To your point, you cant blame stoping at 4 yards when you need 7 on the players, that is on Zorn and it is documented. Zorn is on recorded as saying that he calls plays that are short of the first down with the expecation that the player will get the additional yardage.


Just plain studid

Posted by: GreatOne1 | December 17, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if anyone has asked this question yet, but which position on the O-Line is in the most desperate need to be infused with new talent

Posted by: dspinx | December 17, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"I don't know if anyone has asked this question yet, but which position on the O-Line is in the most desperate need to be infused with new talent

Posted by: dspinx "

Jon Jansen!

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Reposting this: I'd like to see where others agree/disagree with this. Because this is the starting point for any plan. You look at the problems and figure out how you wnat to address them. Ideally, you do this list for 2009 and 2011. Because draft picks won't ready until 2011.

Special teams
Kick returner: Solved
Punt returner: Problem (though I think Rock solves the problem)
FG Kicker: Problem
Punter: Problem

Offense
RT: Problem
RG: Problem
C: Problem
LG: Problem
LT: Solved
QB: Solved
RB: Solved
TE: Solved
WR: 2 solved, 1 problem

Defense
DE: 1 problem, 1 solved
DT: 1 problem, 1 solved
MLB: solved
OLB: 1 problem, 1 solved
CB: 2 Solved
Safety: 2 solved

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse


Spot on JLC - another wasted year thanks to the front office and Danny the Midget.

By contrast, the Ravens got value from their 1,2,3,4,5 and 6th round pick - on the field - this year. The only pick that did not make it was the 7th round. Other organizations may not be as successful as that, but surely better than only one pick out of TEN having any impact.

Posted by: dcg4 | December 17, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

sween, the only reason I say his talent evaluation isn't bad is because this roster DOES have talent, but the team as a whole is built fundamentally flawed. And no doubt he has a ton of help identifying players, but he does have to sign off on who comes to the team, and I don't think he does it blindly. Of course I could just be naive on that last point.

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 4:42 PM | Report abuse

I wouldnt say that we "overpaid bigtime" for kendall, he has been a solid starter here for the past two seasons.....tighten up jason!

Posted by: santanastark | December 17, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

fwiw -- I disagree with Jasno on Kendall. I'd trade a 4th round pick for 2 years of a starting LG. He was a part of the reason we made the playoffs last year.

Would I do that deal again? Yes. We did not overpay on that -- its nothing like the Jason Taylor deal.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if anyone has asked this question yet, but which position on the O-Line is in the most desperate need to be infused with new talent

Posted by: dspinx | December 17, 2008 4:36 PM

Tackle.

Depth at center is Geisinger.

Depth at guard is Rinehart and Fabini.

Depth at tackle is Heyer (and Fabini in a pinch ... and we're in a pinch right now).

That's four guys ... plus Fabini has more mileage than Samuels OR Jansen.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Fletcher reacts to the Pro Bowl snub:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3776324

"Susan Lucci of the NFL"

Posted by: swowra | December 17, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest, I agree we didn't overpay for Kendall. It also wasn't a great deal. I'd say we broke even.

Would I do it again? Probably not. For a 5th rounder I'd do it, but a 4th rounder still has a reasonable shot at being a consistent contributor for the team.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

This is the post from Jasno right after the Taylor trade went down. I only looked it up cause I remembered when it went down. I am sure there is something similar regarding Kendall. JLC is so full of it. Flip flopping dbag.

-----------

Man, my head is still spinning. What a crazy day.

Anyway, to me, this is a move the Skins had to make. You're talking about picking up dudes who can, most likely, barely play in the NFL, if at all, versus getting a future Hall of Famer and the premier sack guy in the league over the last 10 years. (Okay, maybe it's Strahan, but he's retired now.)

And Vinny Cerrato was ever-so-confident Taylor is more than a one-year rental, so that's huge, too. It was going to take a second-round pick to get him under these circumstances - the league knew the Skins were desperate as heck now, losing two DEs for the season right off the bat, including a starter.

Taylor will certainly have some entertainment-type stuff he wants to do in the offseason, but with his pedigree, he's earned that right. He's been remarkably healthy his entire career - hasn't missed a start this decade - and is still a beast at 33. You have to try to make this move; there's no one else out there and it was already a very thin spot of the roster even with a healthy Daniels.

The Skins had to act decisively and they did, but I'm not buying that they pulled this off in 45-60 minutes, as Cerrato tried to say, but in the end that doesn't matter. (For what it's worth, the Dolphins still will not confirm this deal as of 7:30).

Good for the Skins. Guys like Chris Wilson should learn a lot from Taylor, and it was a huge gamble banking on Daniels staying healthy all year as the starter in the first place, given his age and injury history.

So, how to they top this Monday?

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Phrase of the week:

Self Serving Blog Post

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Report abuse

what was posted after the Kendall trade went down??

Posted by: BeantownGreg | December 17, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

JLC thought the Kendall trade was a terrible idea, if I remember correctly.

Posted by: swowra | December 17, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Here we go AGAIN....same JLC...loves rubbing salt in our playoff demised wounds.

I think Vinny will do what he did this season and trade our 1st for either 2 second rounders or a second and 3rd.

Posted by: Lisa_R | December 17, 2008 4:54 PM | Report abuse

psps, I think we're honing in on this. The problem is not spotting existing talent ... they certainly know how to find and pay (some might say overpay) other team's high quality players ... the problem is finding untapped talent and developing it, or maintaining it.

Ryan Clark (problem in maintaining). Chris Clemons (problem in developing). Walt Harris (problem in tapping). When talent is out there and screaming in your face, its not hard to go out there and get it (and probably pay more than retail).

The lone success, in my eyes anyway, has been Demetric Evans. Talent found (4th round pick by Dallas, grabbed as FA), developed (depth behind Wynn and Daniels for three seasons), and tapped (this season).

Other than that, our prime starters started as someone else's success. [Minus Samuels, Cooley, Landry, Sean Taylor, Jason Campbell, Rock Cartwright, Carlos Rogers ... I'm holding back on RockyMac b/c I worried his leg will fall off soon ... also, too soon to tell whether what we've seen from Horton is as good as it gets ... frankly, Landry's tackling has been suspect recently.]

Other teams' successes? Springs, Jason Taylor, Portis, Fletcher, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, Cornelius, Marcus, Santana, Randel El ... and this is only the current roster ... I'm not including any of early moves by Snyder.com]

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

If memory serves Greg he said teh Skins overpaid because they failed to address the need (replacing Dockery) through the draft or through 'conventional' free agency.

It was only after "The Todd Wade Experiment" was deemed a failure did they do something - and then lucked out because the Jets screwed Kendall and refused to trade him to eitehr the Fins or Chiefs because they were in the AFC...

Posted by: Redcoat | December 17, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Also re:4th rounder for Kendell.

It was really like using a 6th rounder in '07 draft...

The value of a draft pick is reletive to the year you make the transaction.

So, in 2007, say we wanted to get someone in the 6th round of that draft. An appropriate trade would be to trade the 4th in 2009, which is what we essentially did. Payment has just came due.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

I don't know if it's just because I know he's a smug Ravens fan, but all of JLC's posts like this just seem like a guy pointing and laughing instead of actually trying to inform.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | December 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Im sorry I just cant believe that 3 people are stupid. come on not one of the receivers can grasp the system. I can see if 2 of them or even 1 of them didnt get it, but all 3 and were going into week 16 of the regular season.

Maybe it is not the players, maybe it is the stupid arogant my scheme is smart and everybody else is dumb coach.

Posted by: GreatOne1

I couln't agree with you more. I gues the vets don't get it because they sure keep making mistakes.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but to call a 4th round pick 2 years down the road "over-paid bigtime" is a big stretch. What would have been better, spending $40+ million on Alan Faneca which the Jets did? Come on Jason...Yes, the Taylor move was bad but don't compare the Kendall pick to that.

Posted by: Oz99 | December 17, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

I think Kendall is the lowest priced guy on the OL and he has earned his paycheck.

How many plays has he missed the past 2 years? Less than Thomas or Jansen or Samuels (not sure about Rabach).

A 4th round pick is hardly a lock to make a team, let alone be a solid starter.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

... Anyway, to me, this is a move the Skins had to make. ...

Posted by: JasonLaTempleton | December 17, 2008 4:50 PM

Whether Jason Taylor performs well or not, a move you "had to make" because you ignored depth on the line for so long is not a good. Having to make desperation hires, whether Jason Taylor or Pete Kendall, because you rely on big name starters and poop on depth and down-roster player development, is not a sustainable way of running a franchise ... unless the running you're doing is into the ground.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse


Funny how you guys take out your anger at Snyderatto on JLC. He speaks the truth and instead of venting at the real source of the problem, you yell at him for pointing out he obvious.

Hey - Kool-Aid drinkers....the Redskins suck! They suck now, they have no pipeline for the future, no plan - so they will continue to SUCK!

Posted by: dcg4 | December 17, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

Im just really tired of Jason. He always writes with a tone of arrogance as if he would do things so much better. I am the first one to admit the Redskins make tons of mistakes, but calling the trade of Kendall for a 4th round pick 2years later huge over payment. Seriously I dont need someone who is Redskin fanboy covering the team, but its just constant bashing. We arent the Patriots, but we arent the Lions either and we are .500 in the best division in football. Stop it already.

Posted by: terpcap6 | December 17, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

FOUND IT:

Pete Kendall To The Rescue
The Redskins have acquired guard Pete Kendall from the New York Jets to fill their void at left guard, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

Kendall, who has endured a rocky relationship with Jets management in recent years, is a smart, capable veteran who can replace departed free agent Derrick Dockery. He can play all three interior positions but the Redskins have an immediate need at left guard, with tackle Todd Wade struggling to make the transition to that position, and relying on reserve Mike Pucillo in that spot in last week's preseason game.

Kendall, who turns 34 next month, had begin working with the Jets starters again in recent weeks, and over the weekend teams that inquired about his availability were told that New York planned to keep him. However, the Redskins were eager to firm up the left side of their line - quarterback Jason Campbell was nearly lost for the season due to a hit Saturday night and could miss the remainder of the preseason - and Kendall was considered the best option available.

Kendall (6-5, 292) is in his 12th year and spent the last 4 with the Jets and was a first round pick by Seattle in 1996. He has started 156 games.

Three NFL executives who scouted the Redskins over the weekend all came to the same conclusion about Washington's issues at left guard, and time was running out for Wade to make the transition. Now, with Kendall here, Wade could go back to being a reserve tackle if need be - Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels has missed nearly the entire preseason with a knee injury - and Washington's depth on the line - considered a major deficiency by many scouts - is much improved.

The Redskins have been averse to trading any more 2008 draft picks - their 4th rounder is already gone from last year's acquisition of TJ Duckett - and I have not been able to nail down if they gave up a 4th or a 5th in 2009, but it's believed to be one of those two picks. They gave Kendall a $1 million raise as part of the deal as well, so he'll make $2.7 million this season. Kendall has played previously for Seattle, Arizona and New York.

Kendall is not here yet and must still pass a physical, but that looks like a mere formality at this point.

Good move by the Skins and one, frankly, they had to do because of the position they were in. Like people told me over the weekend, they were asking for trouble with the combinations they had.

By Jason La Canfora | August 23, 2007; 11:43 AM ET

THE KEY IS THE LAST PARAGRAPH

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

So, in 2007, say we wanted to get someone in the 6th round of that draft. An appropriate trade would be to trade the 4th in 2009, which is what we essentially did. Payment has just came due.

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 4:56 PM

Deficit spending ... at some point, like maybe after the credit market crashes and no one is lending money, then you make lending even LESS profitable by cutting to overnight rate to less than a point, you have to pay the piper.

Oops, wrong blog. Still, credit card expenditures do tend to become due eventually.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Assuming the Redskins wanted to trade a player for picks (which they don't, of course), who could they afford to trade in terms of the cap?

The only possibility I can think of is Betts, but I don't know what the cap implications would be. There was significant interest around him in years past. Might he yield a 3rd or a 4th and a late rounder? Ideally, you would want multiple picks back because you'll have to draft a speed back in the later rounds as a changeup and to spell Portis.

Posted by: LiberalMike | December 17, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Once again vinny screwed up! He must go! Fire hime please! How many more bad decisions will he be allowed to make? Also I am sick an tired of that idiot Larry Michaels telling fans to stop hating. Fans are not hating we are just frustrated with a losing organization. Fans are sick and tired of paying top dollar to watch a losing product. Larry Michaels is a moron and nothing but a paid homer! What a big jerk!

Posted by: bigjofc | December 17, 2008 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Taylor will certainly have some entertainment-type stuff he wants to do in the offseason, but with his pedigree, he's earned that right. He's been remarkably healthy his entire career - hasn't missed a start this decade - and is still a beast at 33. You have to try to make this move; there's no one else out there and it was already a very thin spot of the roster even with a healthy Daniels.

See all of that is where I have a problem. It would show some class if JLC would just say it didn't work out. Not come off as this person that knows it all (and I am damn sure his a** never played)when he was just as wrong as Vinny and Dan.

JM220

Posted by: icetotalpackage | December 17, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Now that I reread it, sounds like he was pretty neutral....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

4th, are you agreeing with the peeps who are saying JLaC changed his tune on both Kendall and Taylor, or are you agreeing with me that he recognized (and reported) that the moves were required out of desperation because of bad planning.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

Jasno

It's not the picks, it's the dude doing the picking. Hire a Parcells clone, get Pioli, get a personnal guy from the Panthers/Steelers/Titans/Eagles/Giants clique and let him--and not Team Cerrato-- do the picks. Otherwise, we'll get more of the same--which has been lame...

...BTW: Who or what gets traded to get more picks? I have some suggestions.....

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

sween, I agree with most of what you're saying. The only thing I'd say is that a number of the other teams' successes were largely either little-knowns (Fletcher, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, Marcus) or considered disappointments for one reason or another (Cornelius, Springs, Moss).

I do agree with the finding untapped talent, developing it, or maintaining it criticisms. That we haven't had enough of -- but Horton, Heyer, Golston, Monty, and Blades are solid starts (I consider late round picks as "unearthed" talents).

Anyway, time for me to head out of here.

Posted by: psps23 | December 17, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

...that starts at #47 and end at #89. When you're not winning with a guy at a position you're overdrafted for--tight end/wide receiver- and you need picks in a draft featuring the kind of players you need, think long term, take a sal cap hit for a year, and move them for picks. We have a tight end and a wide out worth at least a 3rd and 4th round pick for this year (and maybe more the next). That's 6 picks: 4 young lineman, plus a linebacker/running back. Sounds like a winner to me.

Posted by: MistaMoe | December 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse

Assuming the Redskins wanted to trade a player for picks (which they don't, of course), who could they afford to trade in terms of the cap? ...

Posted by: LiberalMike | December 17, 2008 5:04 PM

I tried to get this discussion topic going a couple few days ago (I was thinking both Betts and ARE), but someone quickly pointed out that, in a trade, the receiving team has to assume the trading team's contract with the player ... and that the contracts that Skins have with the guys like Betts and ARE are not ones that other teams would be willing to pay.

Trades would have to be for down-roster guys being developed. Probably no one from this draft class, but maybe someone like Chris Wilson. Probably Evans. Lorenzo Alexander. Golston. Montgomery (he was one that I thought about before). Those types of guys. Its the guys who are young, reaching their prime, getting game time, on their way up. THOSE are the guys who teams would be willing to trade for picks.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Think of the positives, Skins fans don't usually have to sweat anything out on draft day....

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse

MistaMoe, some peeps up here will call you a heretic and blasphemer for even thinking about trading Cooley and/or Moss, but I agree. Root for the jersey, not for the player. Those two guys have the most value right now. Cooley probably more than Moss b/c he's younger and has not missed games due to injury like Moss. Hopefully, Cooley's new contract makes him untradeable. That said, it DOES make you wonder why the Skins used a second round pick on a tight end. In my mind, Cooley has greater value than Jason Witten based on where he is in his career and injury history. [For the same reason, I think Witten more value than Anthony Gonzalez ... and what was that other guy's name in San Diego again?]

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

In hindsight the Jason Taylore trade was terrible...in hindsight.

I do believe you gave the team props on the trade at the time, though, even then we overpaid with the two picks.

If The Skins are the far right, You my pessimistic little friend are definitely the far left. Maybe its time for a new gig.

Posted by: WaPoLiveFan16 | December 17, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

fwiw -- I disagree with Jasno on Kendall. I'd trade a 4th round pick for 2 years of a starting LG. He was a part of the reason we made the playoffs last year.

Would I do that deal again? Yes. We did not overpay on that -- its nothing like the Jason Taylor deal.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 4:43

Whatr are you smoking? You can find LONG TERM starters in the draft in the 4th round. You don't give up 4th round picks for aging O-linemen that will give you 2 maybe 3 years of bove avg play for on a crap team that can't make it out of the wild card round.....and the Taylor deal?....that is classic Vinny. Give up a second rounder for an aging pass rusher that is on the DECLINE? are you freakin' kidding me? MORONS!

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Correction ... Evans was undrafted ... picked up as an undrafted free agent by Dallas in 2004. I think Evans is the sole exception to the general trend I burped up at 4:55pm.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

++++Those who are going to come back with the weak arguement that the Eagles never won the Super Bowl, great, but weak, that doesn't change the fact that they were SUCCESSFUL running the WCO, and they were LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Redskins.


Last post on that subject...don't let facts change your opinion corky...

Posted by: BeantownGreg+++


"Put that coffee down! Coffee is for Closers!!"--Glengarry Glen Ross

You obviously would settle for a set of steak knives. I want to win the Cadillac. My argument was and IS that the WCO, at least the version that depends on short passes up and down the field is an unsuccesful offense in the NFC East.

Part of that argument is that this style will always come up short in the long run, just as the "run and gun" comes up short in the NFL.

At some point along the way, the Philly offense got derailed. And at any rate, it's not a pure WCO, it's an offense that depends on Michael Westbrook running behind a massive line to succeed.


Even if I were to concede you your point--which I don't--your argument to keep a WCO is beyond weak. Look at the offenses that succeed in the NFC East--Big O-lines, pounding running attacks, teams that don't turn into paper tigers when the weather turns... The Giants, the Redskins and the Cowboys HAVE won Superbowls with their offenses, not a single one of which is WCO.

I'm glad it's your last post on the topic. I'm sure you have sooooo many other posts to make talking about the great job the FO is doing.Enjoy your steak knives.


Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

+++"Well, notsofast. I checked with the team to verify the draft picks for April, as it presently stands."

I'm sure they loved getting that call.

"Oh god, it's him again."

Posted by: TheTruth11+++

Yeah, boohoo. Why isn’t he more like the “reporters” at redskins.com!???!

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 5:26 PM | Report abuse

+++"Well, notsofast. I checked with the team to verify the draft picks for April, as it presently stands."

I'm sure they loved getting that call.

"Oh god, it's him again."

Posted by: TheTruth11+++

Yeah, boohoo. Why isn’t he more like the “reporters” at redskins.com!???!

Posted by: TheCork | December 17, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

po403 -- you can find long term starters in the 4th round.

The Skins 4th round picks since 2000:

Justin Tryon
Sage Rosenfelds
Manuel White
Michael Moore.

Yup, those 4th round picks are just a lock to be LONG TERM STARTERS -- not just starters, but maybe Pro Bowl, maybe even HOF!!1

Back at you -- since that's what round 4 brings -- what are YOU smoking.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

4th, are you agreeing with the peeps who are saying JLaC changed his tune on both Kendall and Taylor, or are you agreeing with me that he recognized (and reported) that the moves were required out of desperation because of bad planning.

Posted by: dcsween | December 17, 2008 5:06 PM

I thought we established that he inserts his own thoughts in this blog and that this isn't print reporting? And I am seeing that he does analysis, not reporting more often in the paper.

So, I would say calling out revisionist history is in play.

I would say he is double talking regarding Taylor Trade. He sounded neutral to begin with in the Kendall trade, but that gave him leverage to slam the skins for that. And he was already in bash mode then, though we made the playoffs that year, despite losing tragically our best player on the team.....

Posted by: DaReal4th | December 17, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately, for you "should have happened yesterday draft a d-line or whatever" ... the Kendall trade made sense at the time. They were shooting for the playoffs. This year they probably weren't. It just was dangled in front of them when no one expected it except the players thought it possible.

Now you pay the piper. Attempt to make trades to upgrade the draft, get more choices. Hold off on free agents. Trim the CAP. Wait for next year. Protect the draft picks, don't use them. Continue to try to acquire more.

Get a real general manager, Vinnie had his run. The draft picture (before last year) wasn't as bad as some depicted it. But we're not sure how much of the good lies with Vinnie. Mostly, I would guess Gibbs and the so-called "bloated" coaching staff probably made those calls when he was here. During Spurrier the talent was pretty scarce and their record reflected that.

Change appears to be in order at the player evaluation, FA/draft decision making level. At the coaching level clearly the defense does not appear need much to be at the very top. Injury wise they have problems with Washington, Springs, Griffin, Doughty and now McIntosh. In spite of that they seem to handle themselves well enough. That speaks volumes for backups like Evans, Blades, Horton, Golston, Montgomery, etc al.

Clearly for the past few years offense and special teams have been in need of additional talent, more than the defense.

Posted by: periculum | December 17, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse

The Redskins could have avoided majority
of this MESS, if they would'vd resigned
LB-Antonio Pierce back in 05', as well
as G-Derrick Dockery. As much the
Skins paid for upgrades since then,
that's always the topic. I just feel
so frustrated by some of the Idiotic
personnel moves. As the movie quote says,
"I could'vd been a CONTENDER!"

Posted by: madalao | December 17, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

went back to 1995 for 4th round picks for the Skins.

9 guys combined for a total of 13 seasons as a starter in the league. Kendall is a 2 year starter. They combined for 220 starts in the NFL (only Sage Rosenfels is still playing) -- or 25 starts average.

Relative to history, Kendall is a good deal.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

A fourth round pick for Pete Kendall was an overpayment that I groaned at when it was made. The Jets did not want him. Would they have taken less for him? Probably. Let's turn the tables and say how much would someone give us for Cornelius Griffin or Phillip Daniels? These two guys are older vets that are well beyond their good years. If someone were to offer a fourth round pick for either of them they would be gone in an instant. Jansen for a fourth round pick? You bet. He is even younger than Kendall was.

We seem to always swindle ourselves when we trade for other players. We add draft picks or upgrade picks that are traded away that tilt the balance of the trade heavily against us. The last good trader we had was Charlie Casserly. We stole a day's worth of picks from New Orleans one year and wound up with a pretty good cornerback if I remember correctly.

Posted by: driley | December 17, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

What everyone is forgetting is the NFL will be capless starting next year and will never go back to the cap (as the players have said)...there is ZERO incentive for Danny/Vinny to build through the draft. In fact, it may have been in the back of their mind when they coughed up a 2 for Taylor that they would be operating with out a cap next year. 90% chance they go back to their free-wheeling, free-spending ways. Big bonuses and contracts to Haynesworth, Housh, and many others...get ready for it!

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 17, 2008 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Correction: The only incentive in the draft for the Skins will be to trade as many lower picks as you can to poor teams to move up and get those early 1st rounders no one but the super-rich teams will be able to sign. Welcome to the NFL, post-2008!!

Posted by: Fuzzy21 | December 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Report abuse

YES! This post was awesome. As a bitter skins fan I needed someone to express my outrage via totally sweet hyperbole.

Although I disagree w/some of his statements, as fans we need to err on the side of complete, total, delusional anger in the hopes Snyder might hear us and fire Cerrato...but we all know that won't happen...

Posted by: nalsmith | December 17, 2008 6:41 PM | Report abuse

You can build through the draft the key is you must have a good scouting system most gm's are dependent on their scouting system not to find the obvious can't miss prospect's but to find lower round diamond's in the rough that can fill out your roster and provide depth. The problem with the Redskin scout's? who is responsible for due diligence? How could you not know that Malcom Kelly's knee problem would prevent him from getting on the field and Devin Thomas has struggled to learn the playbook and neither player could get through the teams required physical conditioning drill before the season started,that is a red flag that goes back to the system implemented by the gm or his staff,the solution better communication with the rookies,within a week of being drafted they should know what is expected of them mentally and physically and should be held accountable.The fact that none of the players in this past draft have contributed with the exception of one or two players speaks volumes about this teams system.

Posted by: dargregmag | December 17, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

The Skins 4th round picks since 2000:

Justin Tryon
Sage Rosenfelds
Manuel White
Michael Moore.

Yup, those 4th round picks are just a lock to be LONG TERM STARTERS -- not just starters, but maybe Pro Bowl, maybe even HOF!!1

Back at you -- since that's what round 4 brings -- what are YOU smoking.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | December 17, 2008 5:34 PM


I'm not talking about the Redskins' draft history...or more specifically, Vinny's draft history in the 4th round...moron...i am talking about "real" football people, and what they pick up in the 4th !Players like....Asante Samuel (Belichick/Pioli), Ryan Diem (Indianapolis/Polian), Willie Colon (Steelers/Colbert), Darren Sproles(San Diego/A.J Smith)...you getting my point now?????? I could care less what the hell the Redskins have drafted in the 4th round...they don't know what the hell thy are doing, and obviously, you don't know much about what you are talking about.

Posted by: po403 | December 17, 2008 7:14 PM | Report abuse

If you just reflexively knock every move as horrible it really detracts from your credibility. I'm with you for the most part on the way this organization is run at the top, but the Redskins did not "way overpay" to get Pete Kendall. They gave up a 4th round pick two years down the line to get a starter who gave them two solid seasons. That is not overpaying. You can say they were forced into making the move because they low-balled Dockery and let him walk (for huge money, but maybe they could have gotten him cheaper in season if they came strong), I'll buy that. But they did not give up the farm for Kendall. Come on man.

Posted by: Ehren | December 17, 2008 7:20 PM | Report abuse

My gosh could we please hire a GM who knows what the heck he is doing. Why does Snyder continue to allow Vinny to build or better yet destroy this team. We can continue to blame coaches but unitl we hire someone who has a true nack for building a roster we are sunk. I hate feeling like there is no light at the end of the tunnel ecspeciall since I have loved the Skins for most of my life.

Posted by: thediesel44 | December 17, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

ron wolf live in annapolis. i saw the guy walk in downtown annapolis to get a bite to eat... connections to zorn: zorn was the qb coach for holgram. holgram worked for wolf in green bay. wolf and holgram won a super bowl together. zorn plus wolf minus vinny equals playoffs/super bowl!!!

Posted by: jimmy_the_crickett | December 17, 2008 10:14 PM | Report abuse

Guys not being American (ir even living there) I will ackowledge I know nothing about Football even thought I love the game and my beloved skins, however isn't Cerrato's contempt for the draft proven by him using a 6th round pick on a Punter who he could have got as a post draft signing for nothing. The folly of this was has only been proven by the outstanding play of the player we picked up in the 7th round, just imagine if somewhere in the multiple picks after we took Brooks someone else had taken Chris Horton, then the draft would have been a compete failure instead of just an unmitigated disaster.

One other thing is it possible that our WR's picked in the draft are better than they look but the O lines struggles have only given Campbell time to look at Moss and Cooley and fire it in as he is not getting protection for long enough to look at his 3rd and 4th reads, which potentially could be Kelly making a double move and breaking deep.... Any answers to my points would be greatly appreciated. I AM NOT MAKING STATEMENTS I AM RAISING TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION I WOULD LOVE TOME WASHINGTONIANS WHO SEE THEM PLAY EVERY WEEK TO TELL ME IF I AM RIGHT OR WHERE I AM WRONG> my email is lee.carney@anz.ccamatil.com I would love for someone to email me who wants to discuss the NFL cos I am desperate to learn more about this great game

Posted by: LeeCarney | December 18, 2008 1:18 AM | Report abuse

Having just four picks in next year's draft is a sad situation. I'd like to see the 'Skins trade for more picks. Maybe they could deal their first-round pick for late first-/early second-round and a second-day pick. They'd better select some linemen this time, though.

Posted by: DrewDC | December 18, 2008 4:27 AM | Report abuse

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