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Zorn Rocks His Socks, Explains That Smooch

Redskins Coach Jim Zorn and his former boss in Seattle, Mike Holmgren, chatted for a few minutes before a banquet hosted by Zorn and his wife, Joy, last night in the owner's lounge at FedEx Field. Then, a few minutes later, when called up to speak to the crowd of roughly 50 people, Zorn smiled at Holmgren and said: "I want you to know, Mike, I did wear some Seattle Seahawks socks."

He then lifted his leg and pulled up his pants cuff to display a white sock with a Seahawks logo. Zorn also introduced his wife by describing a moment this week at a Capitals playoff game in which the two were shown kissing on the Verizon Center's scoreboard screen.

"This is my lovely bride, who has a reputation for kissing in public," Zorn said, adding that the liplock came right after he had sat down after a break in play. "Joy put this wet smooch on me," he said. "I said, 'What are you doing?' She said, 'It's the kiss cam.' She had popcorn spilling out of her mouth."

African Relief in Spotlight

The Zorns hosted the event, which was for Medical Teams International, an organization Jim Zorn supported as the Seahawks' quarterback in the late 1970s, when he was asked to do a public service announcement along with runner Alberto Salazar. Back then, MTI, based in Portland, Ore., was called Northwest Medical Teams. Years later, when he came back to Seattle as Holmgren's quarterbacks coach, he was re-introduced to the organization, which had become a passion of Holmgren's wife, Kathy.

Last night's event brought Mike Holmgren to Washington to see Kathy and his daughter Calla off on a trip to Uganda, where they will work in relief centers for the next few weeks, helping refugees from Congo.

Over the past few years, Kathy Holmgren, a nurse, and Calla Holmgren, a physician in Salt Lake City, have made three trips to Africa, providing medical care to the floods of refugees coming from war-torn regions of Africa. Calla Holmgren, who has pushed the trips, said the idea for the latest project came last fall as more and more people in the Republic of Congo died in fighting between government and rebel troops.

"No one pays attention to what's going on there, it drives me crazy," Calla Holmgren said.

Before the Seahawks' final home game last year, played in a snowstorm, Kathy Holmgren along with several volunteers, asked fans outside the stadium for donations to MTI. They raised $60,000, she said.

Holmgren Ready to Work

Holmgren said he's ready to work again, although he isn't certain where or as a coach or front-office type.

By Cindy Boren  |  May 8, 2009; 11:26 AM ET
 
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience'
Next: McIntosh, Thomas Updates

Comments

writings on the wall, Holmegreen will be with the redskins next year in some capacity

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 8, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

"No one pays attention to what's going on there, it drives me crazy"

Sounds like Ms. Holmgren understands what's been going on with the redskins' offense better than the rest of us.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

just seems forced cork....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1

I've written humor for enough years to know not all of it works.

But your comment reminds me of the time Orel Hershheiser was heckled by a drunk fan who bragged he could hit him. Replied Orel: "Grab a bat."

Love to see your sense of humor on display here. By all means, grab a bat.

Posted by: TheCork | May 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Regarding DEVIN THOMAS

I once had glasses thick enough to fry ants. I've had two detached retinas, and two cataract surgeries. Now I don't wear glasses and have 20-20 vision. So I know improved vision is not only possible but a very good thing.

However, I've never known my bad eyes to make me forget where I was supposed to sit when posting, not did they cause a coach to declare me "out of shape."

It might explain why Devin ran smack dab into his own player during a goal line play last year.

Posted by: TheCork | May 8, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

cork, I don't do the whole skippy thing, thats your schtick....I was just saying....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 8, 2009 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"sorry but you make it sound like no QB in the league can come in and have a better year next year than JC will have, which isn't true at all.

Posted by: TheTruth11"

Name the last QB you've seen step in in his first season of a WEST COAST offense, with no seasons prior learning the system, and have a significantly better year than Campbell had last season.

I'll even start a list of WCO QBs in the past that stepped into a similar situation. You can look them up yourself:

Donovan McNabb - PHI
Jeff Garcia - SFO
Rich Gannon - OAK
Matt Hasselbeck - SEA
Brett Favre - GB
Brad Johnson - TB
Jake Plummer - DEN
Charlie Batch - DET
Joey Harrington - DET

Compare those guys' first seasons with no prior learning to Campbell's first season. And remember, towards the top there are 4 combined MVPs and 15-20 combined pro-bowl trips in there. Now tell me if any of these guys lit it up in their first seasons, or even came close to it (I'll give you a hint, only Brad Johnson came close).

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I noticed a hint of negativity from Elfin in that post as well. BURN HIM!

Posted by: Original_etrod | May 8, 2009 9:14 AM

Yes, yes, he turned me into a NEWT!

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

I found something amusing yesterday. I was bored at work as usual and i started scrolling through old redskins songs done by Chris Paul of WPGC. and the funny thing is going all the way back to 2005 all of his song in some way talk about how bad are offense is. we all ways talk about JC but our offense has been terrible for years with pretty good defenses.

Moral of the story is the offense was bad before JC and Zorn, and Gibbs 2.0, and until we devote some time to let the offense gel we will continue to hear the same songs " literally"

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 8, 2009 11:54 AM | Report abuse

Donovan McNabb - PHI
Jeff Garcia - SFO
Rich Gannon - OAK
Matt Hasselbeck - SEA
Brett Favre - GB
Brad Johnson - TB
Jake Plummer - DEN
Charlie Batch - DET
Joey Harrington - DET

apple, apple, orange, apple, apple, orange, apple, orange, orange

Also, I propose we storm Jim Zorn's office, and burn down his socks.

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

GreatOne, that's why I'm with you. With Brunell, I just couldn't get optimistic that NEXT week, he'll turn it around and everything will be firing on all cylinders. I always felt like I was watching a QB on the downside of his career. Campbell is still clearly on his way up. I know lots of peeps (professional football people, in their own minds, the bloggerati up here) think he lacks the accuracy, mental acuity, reflexes, whatever, but nothing I've seen backs that up. He's clearly had some brilliant plays, series, even games. Now its a matter of becoming consistent, and keeping healthy and capable receivers on the field for him.

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

"Compare those guys' first seasons with no prior learning to Campbell's first season. And remember, towards the top there are 4 combined MVPs and 15-20 combined pro-bowl trips in there. Now tell me if any of these guys lit it up in their first seasons, or even came close to it (I'll give you a hint, only Brad Johnson came close).

Posted by: psps23

Posted by: psps23 "

uhh, I'm talking about this year, not last year.

JC will still be average as hell this year, that's my point.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Bloggerati might be too fancy a word to describe the RI nation. Maybe the hamsterati.

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

Bloggerati might be too fancy a word to describe the RI nation. Maybe the hamsterati.

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 12:04 PM | Report abuse

TheTruth11, face it! You've become an INSIDER (or RI addict ... its just semantics really).

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 12:05 PM | Report abuse

I would like to be mad at him wearing the socks, but I won't because of the money they are trying to raise is for a good cause.

Even though he wore those socks at Redskins Stadium........

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 12:06 PM | Report abuse

BuhBye VinnieC,

Hello MikeyH!!

Cerrato DROOLZ
Homlgren ROOLZ

...I guess... I dunno - kinda difficult slide there at the end.. do we really want that?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

I would say F Zorn and his corny SHEhawk socks, but he is the "head coach", I'm just not sold if his supposed to be one.

Couldn't crack a coordinator spot in his time in Seattle... couldn't even get dibs on the HC spot once Holmgren left.

Holmegren supports Zorn because, what would it look like if he didn't? I think he has to in a way.

I hope he's successful as head coach, even if i don't care for him that much.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:07 PM | Report abuse

You can't discount B-Mitch's resume and what he meant to the skins as a kr/pr. But to use a Steven A. Smith HOWEVER...He became expendable and was cut and then proceeded to sign with every team in our division not named the cowboys...Pathetic. Snyder owns ESPN 980 and I thought he did him a favor by hiring him to be on the worst radio shows and all B-mitch has done is make it worse. I say no to old #30 in the redskins ring of honor unless they want to prematurely put the new #30 in.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 10:48 AM

Seriously? What difference does it make where B-Mitch played after he left here? By that logic, Art Monk shouldn't be in the Ring of Honor because he played for the Eagles too! If Snyder knew anything about loyalty, he wouldn't have cut Mitchell (who cost less than a million on the cap that year) for Deion (who cost $8 million to sign). Probably retires a Redskin if he had his way, so I'm not sure how that's his fault.

And I used to work over at 980...B-Mitch was there for years before Snyder bought them out and the contracts in place were all honored, not just Mitchell's. Even if he was around when B-Mitch was hired, he didn't "do him a favor" as Snyder's not the one who does the hiring/firing over there.

If you don't like B-Mitch on the air, that's fine (honestly, I don't either), but don't sell his accomplishments in burgundy and gold short. Dude is one of the greatest return specialists in league history and easily THE greatest in Redskins history. If the Hall of Fame process was fair at all, he'd be in there.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 8, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

lol @ me being an "insider"

dude I'm The Truth, I respresent for the real G's and hustlaz out there

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

I can't play - Doctor said my eyes were too fat.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

And seeing is believing with Devin Thomas (no pun intended)...Troy Williamson did the same thing and he still sucks. Fingers crossed...

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 8, 2009 12:11 PM | Report abuse

bwood26, I think the point Diesel was trying to make was that Mitchell intentionally wanted to play for the Eagles and Giants, just to stick it to the 'skins twice a year. I think he actually grew to hate the Cowboys as much as the fans do, probably was the reaason he didn't play for them.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

"And seeing is believing with Devin Thomas (no pun intended)...Troy Williamson did the same thing and he still sucks. Fingers crossed...

Posted by: brownwood26"

To Thomas' credit, he at least has one season in his career (professional + collegiate) where he was actually extremely productive.

Williamson's best college season was 43 rec, 845 yds, 7 TDs. It's almost laughable he was drafted so high.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Holgren got his GM duties taken away in Seattle, why would you want him here?

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse

psps23,
I sure hope you are right about the 2nd year in the offense being the rainmaker year. I think there's more going on here, though, that what Jason Campbell can control. The team is doing something close to panic when it comes to the offensive line. I mean, 410 pounders and felons are not the usual path to building an offensive line. I think teams are going to bring heat on the right side quite frequently and JC is going to have his hands full. Maybe with youngsters having another year of growth, the receiving corps will stand out as a better supporting cast, but I would not bet the bank on that either. It seems a lot of the recent signings are starting to signal that all is not well in receiver land, either. So, what I am saying is I'm not sure JC will have a great season, however it might not be all his fault. Whatever the case may be, he's going to need to really light it up for this org to re-sign him. I think Snyder is done with him.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 8, 2009 12:18 PM | Report abuse

I would love to see Holmgreen with the team in the FO. Either as some kind of Parcels roll or team president consultant.

Danny needs to build up a army of ex-great coaches to consult with. I would say Holmgreen, Gibbs and maybe 1 more guy and roll with it.

Posted by: alex35332 | May 8, 2009 12:19 PM | Report abuse

Re: Orakpo at SLB
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-10-34/Redskins--Orakpo-is-open-to-change.html

Matt Mosley is wondering why they're doing this. My guess is Blache wants to see how versatile Orakpo is. Can he drop and cover in zone blitz packages, etc. With speed rushers like Wilson/Jackson and run stoppers like Daniels/Alexander/Wynn maybe he just wants to see what options he'll have.

Posted by: skinswest | May 8, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

West Coast Offense Dead for a Decade??

anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??
Shanahan with Denver in 1999? Or Rams in 2000?
My point is, if 09 is a failure (last place) again, attempting to mold the Skins into a West Coast offense.. Maybe the FO should "end the WC experiment". Vinny is the only one pushing the WC from his non-glory days at SF in the mid 90's.

I think the 2-6 W-L record of the last 8 games, last year, shows that teams (opposing Def Coord's) have adjustments to West coast offenses.. And the fact that its been nearly a decade since the last WC offense has won an SB or even made an appearance seems to support this. Its been a long time since we've heard the "greatest show on turf".

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse


bwood26, I think the point Diesel was trying to make was that Mitchell intentionally wanted to play for the Eagles and Giants, just to stick it to the 'skins twice a year. I think he actually grew to hate the Cowboys as much as the fans do, probably was the reaason he didn't play for them.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:14 PM

You nailed it. I loved B-mitch as a skin and his resume as a specialist is HOF worthy. I thought at the time when he was cut that Snyder screwed him and then proceeded to go fantasy owner with Deion, Bruce,etc. Bwood...In the future please don't use the Monk's name in the same sentence as Mitchell's.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

dude I'm The Truth, I respresent for the real G's and hustlaz out there

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 12:09 PM

I, Young Vito
Voice of the young people
Mouthpiece for hustlers
I'm back motherf*****s

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

The Monk...Sorry I wasn't trying to give him a title like the president. Just multi tasking and didn't proof read.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 12:30 PM | Report abuse

I once had glasses thick enough to fry ants. I've had two detached retinas, and two cataract surgeries. Now I don't wear glasses and have 20-20 vision. So I know improved vision is not only possible but a very good thing.

Posted by: TheCork | May 8, 2009 11:48 AM |

Maybe if you'd given up mastrubation you could have skipped the surgery?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

This seems out of the blue... but I miss RFK. I think with FedEx field (in good ol' "Raljon") the Skins have somewhat lost the home-field advantage. I remember going to Skins games as a kid (not many since we were poor, but enough) and I remember how the stadium used to rock. I remember the stands literally shaking and it felt like an earthquake, or like the building would collapse. I remember getting the chance to stand field level during a game(since my dad, aunt, and grandmother all got second jobs at RFK). I remember thinking that the place would collapse. I looked terrifying. That was an advantage.

When I worked at FedEx (I was one of the souless bastards who sold you guys overpriced foods), I remember that the atmosphere wasn't nearly as good. I stood at field level; there were a lot of people, but not as scary (even adjusting for the age gap). My father worked at FedEx as well, and we talked about this recently (after the Steelers effectively made their match against the Skins a 9th home game). It is a shame.

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

I knew bmitch back then... He went to those teams to be near his family. Not to stick it to the skins.
HOF definitely.. He gave the Skins great field position 80 per cent of the time he touched the ball.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++


bwood26, I think the point Diesel was trying to make was that Mitchell intentionally wanted to play for the Eagles and Giants, just to stick it to the 'skins twice a year. I think he actually grew to hate the Cowboys as much as the fans do, probably was the reaason he didn't play for them.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:14 PM

You nailed it. I loved B-mitch as a skin and his resume as a specialist is HOF worthy. I thought at the time when he was cut that Snyder screwed him and then proceeded to go fantasy owner with Deion, Bruce,etc. Bwood...In the future please don't use the Monk's name in the same sentence as Mitchell's.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 12:27 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

"anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??"

TB in 2002.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

"No one pays attention to what's going on there, it drives me crazy"

Sounds like Ms. Holmgren understands what's been going on with the redskins' offense better than the rest of us.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009

Sounds like MistaMoe farting in my direction ...

Posted by: periculum | May 8, 2009 12:33 PM | Report abuse

SkinsNeedaGM -

Greatest Show on Turf = Air Coryell Tree

Saunders coached with Coryell and Gibbs back in SD in the 70s/80s. And Martz was on the Redskins staff during Gibbs HC tenure.

Not WCO. And I don't see this team as a WCO. It seems closer to a spread, which basically what the WCO has evolved into. WCO is just some generic buzz word that's thrown around......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 12:35 PM | Report abuse

bwood26, I think the point Diesel was trying to make was that Mitchell intentionally wanted to play for the Eagles and Giants, just to stick it to the 'skins twice a year. I think he actually grew to hate the Cowboys as much as the fans do, probably was the reaason he didn't play for them.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:14 PM

I get that, but I read what he's saying as Mitchell doesn't deserve to be in the Ring of Honor because of that...which is crap. I'm pretty sure Brett Favre will still go into the HoF as a Packer and get his number retired in GB whether he plays for the Vikings or not. None of that negates what a player did for the team from a production standpoint...especially when you win a Super Bowl in that city. Which B-Mitch did.

Posted by: brownwood26 | May 8, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't mind seeing Holmgren as some sort of consultant on player personnel and coaching.

Nay on GM though, couldn't cut it in Seattle. Sort of like Zorn being on a staff for what, 5-7 years and never got a coordinator gig, or even a fluke title like 'Assistant Head Coach - Offense'.

I think Zorn is good for Campbell, I expect him to vastly improve this year.

I just Zorn is working on him with the basics, like touch - Campbell seriously lacks touch and placement on throws.

Then again, as a QB going into your 5th year and you're still working on basic stuff like touch and placement, I don't know...

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:36 PM | Report abuse

Love to see your sense of humor on display here. By all means, grab a bat.

Posted by: TheCork | May 8, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

cork, I don't do the whole skippy thing, thats your schtick....I was just saying....

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 8, 2009 11:51 AM

==========================================

Greg,

Just between you and me, that wasn't very funny. Personally, I didn't even crack a smile. I know you can do better. Try harder. Pick yourself up and get back in the game. We're on your side -- show us all your best stuff.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

"And the fact that its been nearly a decade since the last WC offense has won an SB or even made an appearance seems to support this."

Seattle went in 2006, Philly went in 2005, TB won it in 2002. Moreover, the only true complete flop of a West Coast team that I can recall was Detroit during the Morningwheg/Mariucci eras (which hardly was an aberration for that franchise). And given that there have only been around 4 or 5 teams running the system in any given year (out of 32 teams) having 3 Super Bowl appearances in the last 7 years really isn't a bad ratio.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 12:39 PM | Report abuse

There is no question that BMitch belongs in the Ring of Fame, no doubt.

But still, his constant antagonizing of the team is wearing thin with a lot of folks here in the DMV area. I don't know who comes off as more bitter, him or Riggins.

Riggins is obvious with his bitterness. Everytime he talks about Portis, he has nothing but negative 'ish' to say.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Holgren got his GM duties taken away in Seattle, why would you want him here?

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 12:16 PM | Report abuse


He couldn't coach and be gm. That was the problem. I think Zorn would be an extention of Holmgren on the field, if Holmgren was GM. That would be a good thing. Holmgren knows the West Coast, I don't see why it would be worse than Danny/Vinny making the decisions of GM.

West Coast Offense Dead for a Decade??

anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??
Shanahan with Denver in 1999? Or Rams in 2000?
My point is, if 09 is a failure (last place) again, attempting to mold the Skins into a West Coast offense.. Maybe the FO should "end the WC experiment". Vinny is the only one pushing the WC from his non-glory days at SF in the mid 90's.

I think the 2-6 W-L record of the last 8 games, last year, shows that teams (opposing Def Coord's) have adjustments to West coast offenses.. And the fact that its been nearly a decade since the last WC offense has won an SB or even made an appearance seems to support this. Its been a long time since we've heard the "greatest show on turf".

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

SNGM,
Would you say that Philly is a West Coast team? I would. They lost the Superbowl in 2005. They also made it to the NFC championship game last year. Would you say the Holmgren Seattle Seahawks team was a West Coast team? I would. They lost the Superbowl in 2006.

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse


TB in 2002.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 12:32 PM

++++++
Thanks.. not a decade (7 years).. And, Gruden hasnt done much since..
If it bombs again in 09 for the skins.. maybe Vinny should take his WC elsewhere... But more likely the FO will hire Gruden or Shanahan and keep pushing the WC.
++++++++++++++++


West Coast Offense Dead for a Decade??

anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??
Shanahan with Denver in 1999? Or Rams in 2000?
My point is, if 09 is a failure (last place) again, attempting to mold the Skins into a West Coast offense.. Maybe the FO should "end the WC experiment". Vinny is the only one pushing the WC from his non-glory days at SF in the mid 90's.

I think the 2-6 W-L record of the last 8 games, last year, shows that teams (opposing Def Coord's) have adjustments to West coast offenses.. And the fact that its been nearly a decade since the last WC offense has won an SB or even made an appearance seems to support this. Its been a long time since we've heard the "greatest show on turf".

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:23 PM |

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

JC will still be average as hell this year....
dude I'm The Truth, I respresent for the real G's and hustlaz out there
Posted by: TheTruth11 |

Guessing
Gullible
Goofy

Yep, you be representin some G's alright....

JC will be better than average this year.
Guaranteed.

Posted by: will_ga | May 8, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

moose,

He couldn't pick players that's why he was fired as GM, it had nothing to do with coaching.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

The term "West Coast Offense" was started by Bill Parcells when he was with the Giants and they beat the 49ers, I believe.

It was kind of like a "How 'bout dem Cow*oys" statement.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Philly and Seahawks seem to be a hybrid of a pure WC team..
It appears to have success in a WC format you have to have almost Hall of Fame level WR's to pull it off.. Rice, Holt, etc... And speaking of which.. wtf.. Skins should of gone after Holt this year??
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SNGM,
Would you say that Philly is a West Coast team? I would. They lost the Superbowl in 2005. They also made it to the NFC championship game last year. Would you say the Holmgren Seattle Seahawks team was a West Coast team? I would. They lost the Superbowl in 2006.

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 12:44 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

B-Mitch
Pro Bowl (x1) (1995)
All-Pro in 1991, 1994 and 1995
70 Greatest Redskins
NFL Records:
13 Special Team Touchdowns
14,014 Career Kickoff Return Yards
4,999 Punt Return Yards
607 Kick Returns
463 Punt Returns
33 Fair Catches in a season
231 Career Fair Catches

Alright all ready...Rename the staduim after him. He is deserving of the Ring of honor. It dosen't take away the fact that he ended his career trying to stick it to the skins by begging the eagles and giants to sign him. How difficult do think it was for Snyder when this came across his desk. BTW...ARE is on pace to shatter B-Mitch's record for fair catches in a career.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

skinsneedagm

'..anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??'


Excellent post, sir.

This is the kind of question that makes me wish I could literally, "Go to the tape."

I think if we could see the WCO v. 4-3 and then compare it to the 3-4 blitz schemes that so many teams run today, we'd see that the advantages that come with 4 linebackers who may or may not blitz causes a lot of confusion for WCO protection packages.

And because so many teams have gotten away from fullback lead, power running, they really can't 'go into a shell' and attack the 3-4 at the bubble weak spots where an inside backer stands over a guard/tackle gap.

To sum up: the WCO found success in the 1980s and early '90s because of the 4-3.

The 3-4 hybrid look attacks WCO protection schemes and those smart offenses that now go three/four wide shotgun spread look are all about match ups in the slot where the elite wideout finds success behind the blitz or in the center of the field against a safety.

The looks we saw on both sides of the ball during the last super bowl are what offensive and defensive football are all about now.

Pure WCO is, like the 1980s themselves, a thing of the past.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 12:49 PM | Report abuse

The term "West Coast Offense" was started by Bill Parcells when he was with the Giants and they beat the 49ers, I believe.

It was kind of like a "How 'bout dem Cow*oys" statement.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:46 PM

You believe...I believe you are a wikipedia wizard.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 12:52 PM | Report abuse

The term "West Coast Offense" was started by Bill Parcells when he was with the Giants and they beat the 49ers, I believe.

............

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:46 PM

Wrong. It started by a reporter mixing up 2 terms. He/She meant to call Coryell's system a West Coast Offense, but instead attributed the term to the Cinncinati Bengal's offense. And BOOM. WCO is born in the MidWest....

Also, I took a hiatus from listening to SportsTalk 980 and feel like a better person. You should do the same.......

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Philly and Seahawks seem to be a hybrid of a pure WC team..
It appears to have success in a WC format you have to have almost Hall of Fame level WR's to pull it off.. Rice, Holt, etc... And speaking of which.. wtf.. Skins should of gone after Holt this year??

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse


I thought they should've picked up Holt, if only to tutor the young WRs. Holt > Thrash.

Also, aren't the Skins supposed to be a hybrid, as well? Your point, that this definitely won't work, is invalidated either way:

West Coast teams have had success recently. If you want to split hairs and say that only hybrids have worked, then the Redskins' attempt has a chance, as well (excluding the outside factors, like lack of GM and Danny's fantasies).

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

As far as defenses catching up to the West Coast, I believe the Tampa-2 was specifically designed to counter the west coast. The consistent dropping of 7-men into coverage, as well as the smaller, lighter, faster personnel on defense allows them to effectively cover the short areas and play at the high pace that the west coast loves.

Interestingly enough it seems that the Tampa-2 is becoming outdated, as teams are switching to 3-4's more consistently (which is a bastardized offspring of Buddy Ryan's 4-6) of which West Coast principles effectively countered with quick hits.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 12:58 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Pittsburgh run a 3-4 in the 70's?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 12:59 PM | Report abuse

San Fran instead of Cincy. But the reporter thing was correct....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

I think the 3-4 may have its roots in the 40's. I think the Chiefs used it in the SB in 1970... though I may be wrong.

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 1:04 PM | Report abuse

San Fran instead of Cincy. But the reporter thing was correct....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 1:01 PM

The term "West Coast Offense," as it is now commonly used, derives from a remark made by then-New York Giants coach Bill Parcells after the Giants defeated the San Francisco 49ers 17-3 in the 1985 playoffs. Parcells, a believer in tough defense over finesse-oriented offense, scornfully derided the 49ers' offense with the statement, "What do you think of that West Coast Offense now?"[1] In 1993, a Bernie Kosar quotation was publicized by Sports Illustrated writer Paul Zimmerman (or "Dr. Z"). Originally the term referred to the "Air Coryell" system used by two west coast teams beginning in the 1970s, the San Diego Chargers and Oakland Raiders. However, a reporter mistakenly applied Kosar's quotation about the Air Coryell system to the 1980s-era attack of Walsh's San Francisco 49ers.[2] Initially, Walsh resisted having the term misapplied to his own distinct system, but the moniker stuck. Now the term is also commonly used to refer to pass-offenses that may not be closely-related to either the Air Coryell system or Walsh's pass-strategy.

1985 parcells
1993 reporter

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

"Didn't Pittsburgh run a 3-4 in the 70's?

Posted by: 4thFloor"

I don't believe so. The Steel Curtain consisted of a front 4 (Joe Greene, LC Greenwood, Ernie Holmes, Dwight White).

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 1:05 PM | Report abuse

Thanks MistaMoe.. Wonder how many Head Coach prospects that Vinny and Snyder interviewed 15 months ago, said the same thing?? "Pure WCO is a thing of the past". And they were promptly shown the door.
Zorn must of said it could be done... ??
++++++++++++++++++++++++
skinsneedagm

'..anyone know the last last pure west coast offense team to win the Super Bowl??'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is the kind of question that makes me wish I could literally, "Go to the tape."

I think if we could see the WCO v. 4-3 and then compare it to the 3-4 blitz schemes that so many teams run today, we'd see that the advantages that come with 4 linebackers who may or may not blitz causes a lot of confusion for WCO protection packages.

And because so many teams have gotten away from fullback lead, power running, they really can't 'go into a shell' and attack the 3-4 at the bubble weak spots where an inside backer stands over a guard/tackle gap.

To sum up: the WCO found success in the 1980s and early '90s because of the 4-3.

The 3-4 hybrid look attacks WCO protection schemes and those smart offenses that now go three/four wide shotgun spread look are all about match ups in the slot where the elite wideout finds success behind the blitz or in the center of the field against a safety.

The looks we saw on both sides of the ball during the last super bowl are what offensive and defensive football are all about now.

Pure WCO is, like the 1980s themselves, a thing of the past.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 12:49 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 1:06 PM | Report abuse

wonder what the percentage of 3-4 Defense's the Skin's offense saw, in the last 6 losses last year?
Although, JC's playbook by the last 8 games of last season was much less WCO than the first 8 games.

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

Didn't Pittsburgh run a 3-4 in the 70's?

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 12:59 PM |

No,

The steel Curtain was a 4-3, they went to a 3-4 sometime after Cower took over.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

I wonder where this notion is that JC17 is young and needs time to develop. He is approaching his 28th bday and is entering his 5th year...

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 11:08 AM

To address your "wonder" I recommend looking at the career of Matt Hasselbeck. He had a JC17-like performance in his first 4 years (JC17's is actually a little better), and went to his first Pro-Bowl in his 5th season (his 3rd season under Zorn). JC17 is entering his 5th season (2nd under Zorn). Hasselbeck returned to pro-bowls in his 7th and 9th season.

In terms of development with Zorn, JC17 is right at the beginning of his prime. So yeah, he is young and developing exactly as Matt Hasselbeck did at this stage of his career.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 8, 2009 1:18 PM | Report abuse

The Steelers starting using the 3-4 in 1982.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

The 72 Dolphins were the first team to win the SB using a 4-3.

It was devised in 1940 at the U of Oklahoma.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Sorry that should say 3-4 for the Dolphins.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:22 PM | Report abuse

shut out the Skins/Kilmer.. poor Geo Allen never got to the dance again.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The 72 Dolphins were the first team to win the SB using a 3-4.

It was devised in 1940 at the U of Oklahoma.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:22 PM

Posted by: SkinsneedaGM | May 8, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

One more interesting fact about the 3-4, the only two teams in the NFL to never use it as a base defense are the Skins and Bears.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

The FO spent 3 picks (2 to move to 25th, and the 25th to take him.)
Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Wow, I'm glad you're not my accountant! If you trade two picks for someoneelse's 25th pick, then you spent 2 picks to get JC.

Posted by: frediefritz | May 8, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

I wonder where this notion is that JC17 is young and needs time to develop. He is approaching his 28th bday and is entering his 5th year...

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 11:08 AM

To address your "wonder" I recommend looking at the career of Matt Hasselbeck. He had a JC17-like performance in his first 4 years (JC17's is actually a little better), and went to his first Pro-Bowl in his 5th season (his 3rd season under Zorn). JC17 is entering his 5th season (2nd under Zorn). Hasselbeck returned to pro-bowls in his 7th and 9th season.

In terms of development with Zorn, JC17 is right at the beginning of his prime. So yeah, he is young and developing exactly as Matt Hasselbeck did at this stage of his career.


Posted by: Alan4 | May 8, 2009 1:18 PM

I agree. The big difference is that Hasselbeck was a 6th rd pick and found success w/ his 2nd team. JC was a 1st and we spent 3 picks to grab him, maybe JC will find success w/ his 2nd team. After all if Snyder has shown us anything, then he has that patience is not one of his virtues. JC has this year to prove himself and I hope he succeeds and if he doesn't than it wasn't from a lack of opportunities.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

Moe, I'm not so sure on your theory regarding WCO vs. 3-4 / 4-3.

The 3-4 is primarily a run-stuffing scheme meant to plug gaps and eat up blockers (which is why the Giants used it in the 80's, to stop the Gibbsian Hogs). The pass rush is predicated on blitzing, which the WCO is specifically designed to counteract with short drops and quick passes into the vacated area. Much of the 3-4, specifically the secondary, is man-coverage based (exemplified whenever we play Dallas). The WCO eats man coverage up with manipulative routes.

I believe it's actually the 4-3 cover-2 system, more specifically the tampa-2, that was designed to stop the west coast. Zone principles, fast defenders, and speedy DE pass-rushers were created to cut off the quick slants and get after the QB as quickly as possible. The WCO compacts the field of play by running short routes, and the Tampa-2 compacts it even further by dropping 7 into coverage. It's similar to playing in the red zone, where things become increasingly more difficult for the offense.

And as it stands, it seems the Tampa-2 has been largely tossed aside, while the 3-4 has come back into play. I have a feeling the West Coast will be shining soon yet again (or an adjusted version of it).

Anyway, that's how I remember it. Wild theories thrown all over the place today.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

The FO spent 3 picks (2 to move to 25th, and the 25th to take him.)
Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Wow, I'm glad you're not my accountant! If you trade two picks for someoneelse's 25th pick, then you spent 2 picks to get JC.

Posted by: frediefritz | May 8, 2009 1:28 PM

Ok...They surrendered a first, third, and fourth round pick to get the first round 25th pick from the Broncos. That should clear up the fuzzy math.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

'.. JC's playbook by the last 8 games of last season was much less WCO than the first 8 games...'

Thank the stillers and ravens for that.

The redskins' offensive line pass blocking issues got more unwarranted exposure than a talentless rock star in those games.

And any defensive coordinator worth his salt could see that the skins didn't have the wideouts or tackle guard depth to counteract anything he called to shut Campbell and Portis down.

And once the skins got behind in points, it all fed into the attacking defense's hand as the team tried to throw the ball to comeback against a violent rush and tight downfield coverage.

The season, all NFC East teams will become more pass oriented knowing they can run to win if they have to.

Let's hope we can pass and pass block better because to find success, we need to.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

while were talking about defense why don't we bring the ol 46 defense back, maybe even bring Buddy Ryan out of retirement to the run the thing, who knows lets just do something crazy and call it a day

Posted by: hillb03 | May 8, 2009 1:42 PM | Report abuse

Outside of the Raven and Steeler games (the #1 and #2 defenses in the league), how good was Campbell? Anyone who watched those 2 games knows the OL was repeatedly torched. It wasn't all on Campbell.

The answer: Campbell played 14 other games, faced the #3 defense twice, the #5 defense twice and the #8 defense twice. In these 14 games, Campbell had a QB rating of 92.

So what is the problem?

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 8, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

On Thomas's eye surgery, it can't hurt. But he wasn't dropping passes. He was running bad routes and stuff like that. Which has nothing to do with his eyes. Nor did his hammy tweak last week.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 8, 2009 1:50 PM | Report abuse

psps23

That's why I wish we could all, "Go to the tape."

But the 4-3 has been around for years.

To be honest: the best eleven defenders will shut down anybody's worst eleven offensive players any day, no matter the system they play.

The 3-4 has comeback I think, primary for two reasons:

a. the tweener type 260 pound outside linebackers and large safeties pouring out of college programs

b. the 3-4 allows a team to literally confuse offensive linemen right up until the snap as a team will shift out of one front after tricking the center into making a specific blocking call

3-4 for Run stuffing?: I think it's hard to tell as too few teams use the "40 fullback lead" or "40 BOB (Back on Backer)" play where a massive fullback, H-back blocks an upright 3-4 linebacker 20 times a game.

The 4-3 is great to trap and sweep and stretch play against. The 3-4, the fullback lead and draw work well against.

But this is all theory and I bet any real football coach reading these posts is off laughing somewhere about us amateurs mouthing off.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 1:53 PM | Report abuse

No Diesel, wikipedia is like going through the drive thru, per Joe Peci.

"They f*** you at the Wiki"

4th, don't ever say I'm wrong about anything. Ever.

You copy?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

From a practical standpoint, the main advantage of the 4-3 is that it's easier to find players to run it. The 3-4's advantage is the versatility you get in where the rush comes from -- various linebackers, for instance. But it's a little harder to find the right sort of players to run it effectively.

In the 3-4, the DEs are very much like 4-3 tackles. They're not going to give you a lot of pass rush. That comes from elsewhere, by design.

On the current Skins, a guy like Anthony Montgomery could be a DT in the 4-3 and an end in the 3-4, where Orakpo fits the profile of an end in the 4-3 and a rush LB in the 3-4.

Generalizations, of course -- in practice, things get a lot more complicated.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 8, 2009 1:56 PM | Report abuse

zcezcest1,
The problem is Campbell cannot throw while lying on his back. With this offensive line, he's going to spend more time there than a French hooker.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 8, 2009 1:58 PM | Report abuse

I always thought of WCO as springing directly from the loins of Bill Walsh.

The Coryell offense couldn't be more different.

Hard to imagine anyone ever confused the two.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 8, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

redskinhead: "The problem is Campbell cannot throw while lying on his back. With this offensive line, he's going to spend more time there than a French hooker."

Imagery aside, I don't think so. He'll have to learn to unload the ball a little sooner (notice I didn't say quicker). That means our receivers will have to get open a bit faster, too.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 8, 2009 2:02 PM | Report abuse

JC will still be average as hell this year, that's my point.

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 12:04 PM

I am willing to bet that JC has a better career than Mathew Stafford

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 8, 2009 2:07 PM | Report abuse

Any word on Tinoisamoa? Does he fit Blatche's scheme?

Posted by: charles20001 | May 8, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

Samson151,
I hope you are right, but if I'm any defensive coordinator in the NFC East I am going to overload the right tackle's side with fleet footed linebackers until they make a convert out of me. Everybody was watching the Steelers and Ravens games last season. They know where the weakness is and they see the Redskins' struggles this offseason to fix that weakness. 3-4, heck, we'll probably see 2-5 fronts this season.

Posted by: RedSkinHead | May 8, 2009 2:08 PM | Report abuse

One more interesting fact about the 3-4, the only two teams in the NFL to never use it as a base defense are the Skins and Bears.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:27 PM

Add in Rams and then those three teams share another distinction ... Adam Archuleta.

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 2:09 PM | Report abuse

I agree. The big difference is that Hasselbeck was a 6th rd pick and found success w/ his 2nd team. JC was a 1st and we spent 3 picks to grab him, maybe JC will find success w/ his 2nd team. After all if Snyder has shown us anything, then he has that patience is not one of his virtues. JC has this year to prove himself and I hope he succeeds and if he doesn't than it wasn't from a lack of opportunities.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 1:28 PM

Opportunities? This is the FIRST opportunity JC17 is getting to spend a second year in the same system. That's what Hasselbeck got for 2 years before his first Pro-Bowl appearance. It's like JC17 is already with his second (or 3rd) team, since the offense has changed so dramatically in the 4 years me he's been here. Where JC17 was picked in the draft compared to Hasselbeck is a reflection of the physical tools he brings to the table, but Jeff George already proved physical tools aren't enough.

Some fans seem to think that's not a legitimate argument, but I don't see many NFL coaches or NFL QBs disagreeing. I would wager the WRs agree, too, since veteran Roydell Williams's head is "spinning" as he tries to learn Zorn's offense from a WR perspective.

JC17's gotten better each year, albeit under dramatically different systems and coaches each year. The stats don't lie. All indications are that he will have a big year this year.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 8, 2009 2:19 PM | Report abuse

West Coast Offense Dead for a Decade??

+++++

I'm no expert on the evolution of the schemes, but I think the Eagles and Cards have been running a West Coast style thingy...seems to be pretty effective for them...

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 2:23 PM | Report abuse

redskins.com has this:

"You're a Redskins fan. NOW PROVE IT. Order a Chris Horton autographed mini-helmet."

If that's what it takes, I wonder how many people outside of Chris Horton's family and friends would have the necessary proof?

And, what is a more legitimate test of being a fan? One necessary, but not sufficient, condition is never to have uttered or written the words, "Okay, I'm going to stop following this team if...."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

"To be honest: the best eleven defenders will shut down anybody's worst eleven offensive players any day, no matter the system they play."

I personally think it goes both ways. Every defense has chinks in the armor. Same with every offense. As good as the Pittsburgh defense was last season (and they were historically good, regular season-wise), Arizona was able to pick them apart, essentially moving at will on them (and would have put the score even higher if not for Warner's mis-read which led to Harrison's 100-yd return TD). No defense will ever be perfect against every offense, and no offense will ever be perfect against every defense. As long as you (1) have the talent, and (2) have an insightful playcaller, any offensive or defensive scheme will be successful.

I agree with your theory regarding the comeback of the 3-4. With the increase in 'tweener' DE/LBs, and the versatility and unpredictability offered in the 3-4, teams are jumping all over that scheme.

But you know somebody is going to devise a way to take advantage of that system. Seemed like Timmy Brady had the makings before his knee folded like a lawnchair. It'll be interesting to see if the spread becomes the kryptonite to the 3-4.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 2:25 PM | Report abuse

JC17's gotten better each year, albeit under dramatically different systems and coaches each year. The stats don't lie. All indications are that he will have a big year this year.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 8, 2009 2:19 PM

Dude...I hope he has a breakout year. JC will be in his 2nd consecutive year with the same system and will have to prove himself this year...If not he will be on another team and out of excuses as to why he wasn't able to fully utilize his physical tools.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

believe it's actually the 4-3 cover-2 system, more specifically the tampa-2, that was designed to stop the west coast.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

I thought the Tampa-2 was designed to take away the deep receiver routes and ensure everything stays in front. The whole point of having the 2 safeties split is to cover deep sideline routes and let the CBs cover underneath.

The MLB is forced to drop in coverage so that the seam routes get covered (something that a strong safety would traditionally do).

By forcing the throws to the short routes, you get smaller speedy defenders to make sure the tackle is made and there aren't YACs.

I thought the Tampa-2 was particularly vulnerable to the WCO. You can pick it apart 5-7 yards at a time b/c the safeties are always playing deep and letting you have what is in front of them.

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

The fact that Coryell's and Walsh's offense were both referred to as "West Coast" is largely to do with where their teams were when they enjoyed the most success running them. San Diego and San Fran.

The offenses are very different. They both are pass oriented but the Coryell version stresses deeper routes and multiple reciever sets where Walsh's version stresses short passes and utilized Rbs in the passing game. Gibbs added the power running game to evolve Coryell's system and Walsh's system has been tinkered with by numerous coaches for over two decades now.

Now, the term is associated almost exclusively with Walsh's version. The Rams greatest show on turf was not this type of offense. It was much more the Coryell type.

I dont think anyone runs a "pure" version of anything now because defenses have adjusted so much that offenses need versatiltiy. But there is no doubt that what is known as the "West Coast offense" still enjoys a lot of success in this league.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 8, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Opportunities? This is the FIRST opportunity JC17 is getting to spend a second year in the same system. That's what Hasselbeck got for 2 years before his first Pro-Bowl appearance. It's like JC17 is already with his second (or 3rd) team, since the offense has changed so dramatically in the 4 years me he's been here. Where JC17 was picked in the draft compared to Hasselbeck is a reflection of the physical tools he brings to the table, but Jeff George already proved physical tools aren't enough.

Another note on this. Holmgren traded for Elizabeth Hasselbeck's brother in law and therefore had a vested interest in seeing him succeed. Vinny and Dan Have already tried twice to "upgrade" JC17 @ the risk of mortgaging the future. Once again he will get to prove himself this year.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 2:35 PM | Report abuse

Rams released LB Pisa Tinoisamoa (6'1/240) who was the team's leading tackler last year w/ 104 tackles...

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

psps23

'...It'll be interesting to see if the spread becomes the kryptonite to the 3-4....'


Again: another interesting post.

To me, I all back to last week's argument: do you need a stud running back or 3 elite wideouts to win in today's NFL.

If I have to pick?: I take two no name backs and invest in elite wideouts--not receivers, btw--who create mismatches against safeties, outide linebackers, and some team's 3rd corner.

Sounds like the cards, doesn't it?

I want 6'0 wideouts or fast tight ends that I can flex out against a backer who can't run as well or a safety who's too light to tackle him.

The wideouts don't have to be fast: just have great hands, know how to get open, and can work the center of the field and make adjustments on the fly.

To Me: the combination of Randy Moss/Wes Welker, R Wayne/Dallas Clark, or trio of Boldin, Breaston and Fitzgerald is what teams will look to mold their offenses after.

Sounds like Moe thinks the spread is the future.

That the hybrid WCO spread is what will counteract all the crazy 3-4 blitzing. That 3/4 wideout looks on first down will soon be the norm.

He sure does.

Posted by: MistaMoe | May 8, 2009 2:38 PM | Report abuse

It is an absurd arguement to say that the WCO is no longer effective, or that you need HOF wideouts to make it work.

True there have been no PURE WCO teams in the super bowl for the last three contests (Steelers, Cardinals, Giants, Patriots, Colts and Bears); proving that there is more ways to win in the NFL - not disproving the out-datedness of the WCO. Furthermore, several of the above teams used WCO principals.

But looking at the previous four SBs, there are four pure WCO teams. Seattle losing to the Steelers - some would still say being robbed by the zebras, the Eagles losing to the Patriots, and Tampa beating the also at the time WCO Raiders.

These were "pure" WCO teams with only Owens as a HOF receiver. (Some USC fans might think Keshawn Johnson belongs in the Hall, but I'd be surprised to see him there myself.)

Now, if you want to argue personnel, Redskin tradition, or that you just hate the WCO, I'm fine with that.

Posted by: bangkokben | May 8, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

"I am willing to bet that JC has a better career than Mathew Stafford

Posted by: GreatOne1 "

and I'm willing to bet I don't care if Stafford sucks

I'm also willing to bet I HOPE JC has a better career than Stafford

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 2:40 PM | Report abuse

psps23

'...It'll be interesting to see if the spread becomes the kryptonite to the 3-4....'

++++

Frankly, I think the kryptonite to the 3-4 is simply a smart QB who is familiar with his offense and RBs who can pick up a blitz.

The advantage of the 3-4 is versatility and the number of different blitz packages that the D can throw at you to get you confused and throw you off balance.

Kurt Warner was destroying Pittsburgh's 3-4 b/c he is a smart veteran comfortable in the system and knows how/where to call audibles and get the ball out to who.

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Actaully Pisa Tinoisamoa had 135 tackles last year.

I say we give him a sniff. Considering Rocky's knees, London's age and the question marks at SLB, it would be nice to have a proven NFL-ready LB on the roster.

He would also fill our need for a beastly Samoan on defense...

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 2:46 PM | Report abuse

GO GET PISA BITC***

Posted by: mopp04 | May 8, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

All of this talk of offensive and defensive schemes has me thinking. I think the biggest reason for the offensive slide in the second half of the year was Zorn's lack of ability to adjust. Yes, The O-line and Campbell deserve part of the blame, but I really think teams got a read on Zorn after the first half of the year and he never countered them. It was his first season EVER as a play caller.

I also think that maybe Zorn needs to take more ownership of the running game. I was all for leaving Gibbs running game intact but I think it also led to the offense being too predictable.

As much as we are talking about the O-line, and the development of Campbell and the WRs, I think Zorn's development as a playcaller is equally as important.

Posted by: VaTerp1 | May 8, 2009 2:48 PM | Report abuse

I hate the WCO.

nit picky nickel dime SJK.

It's a measly way to win a game

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I think we should sign Pisa Tinoisamoa, LB from Rams and let Orakpo stay put at DE, we can let Wynn go and Buzbee or another DL. He was the leading tackler for the Rams and is only 6 years in the league, just released by the Rams today, plays SAM

Posted by: mhartz1 | May 8, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Another note on this. Holmgren traded for Elizabeth Hasselbeck's brother in law and therefore had a vested interest in seeing him succeed. Vinny and Dan Have already tried twice to "upgrade" JC17 @ the risk of mortgaging the future. Once again he will get to prove himself this year.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 2:35 PM

Doesn't every coach and/or owner have a vested interest in seeing their QB succeed? Yes, JC17 was the choice of HOF coach Joe Gibbs. Still, I don't think that would be considered a mark against him.

Bottom line: barring injury, I think JC17's going to have a more than solid, if not breakout year. If I'm wrong, he'll be gone next year and the QB/coach merry-go-round continues.

Because if a Gibbs-selected first round QB can't thrive getting the opportunity of a 2nd season under Zorn's wing, then I wil agree something is fundamentally wrong that's not likely to be overcome.

Posted by: Alan4 | May 8, 2009 2:55 PM | Report abuse

"I thought the Tampa-2 was particularly vulnerable to the WCO. You can pick it apart 5-7 yards at a time b/c the safeties are always playing deep and letting you have what is in front of them.

Posted by: p1funk"

See, I still have the image stuck in my head of Tampa Bay absolutely demolishing Oakland, who had the MVP and an incredible offense running the WCO, in the Super bowl. They took away everything from 0-15 yards, gave Gannon nothing to work with, and Brooks and Jackson ate up the short and intermediate routes.

I think the Tampa-2 differs from traditional cover-2 methods because the tampa-2, for the most part, is entirely zone-based. The corners are responsible for the short and intermediate zones on the sides, the OLBs the short and intermediate zones towards across the middle, the MLB in the intermediate-deep middle, and safeties primarily playing deep halves. I've always thought the tampa-2's weakness was over the top, in the seam, or deep to the outsides. And that's the primary reason you see big-time pass-rushers at the DE and DT position for Kiffin/Dungy's schemes (Simeon Rice, Warren Sapp, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, etc.). They need to get after the QB as quick as possible because they can't allow a deep route to develop hit them at their weak spots. They seem to struggle against power-running, deep ball based squads (Carolina has a history of success against Tampa).

IMO, the tampa-2 defense WANTS you to play in front of them, because being zone-based, they want to be able to see everything as it develops. They want to see the short routes. What they DON'T want is to see you take shots deep and stretch them out.

What it comes down to is that it's a system of perfection. First and foremost, if there is no pass-rush, the system will fail. Yes, then they have to play it safe, make sure they don't get beat deep, and it opens up the short zone. If they do get a pass rush, like Rice and Freeney provided, then they step up and take away the short stuff, forcing you to take the chance of getting sacked by using a long developing route.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I'd bring in Pisa for a look see....never hurts to have young guys on the team

Posted by: BeantownGreg1 | May 8, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

VaTerp,

No argument there. This squad could have made it to (and I believe deep into) the playoffs last year if Zorny hadn't screwed the pooch half way through.

There was no adjustment. There was no attempt. There was no perception.

The position and player analysis is accurate, but the lack of understanding displayed by the coarch was remarkable. Thanks for bringing it up!

Let's hope they coagulate a bit more this year. 'Cause something is going to give and it may be his contract.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Levi Jones, Pisa, etc....I say bring them in but how, unless these guys are coming in @ a min contract we don't have the cap space.

http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 2:58 PM | Report abuse

See, I still have the image stuck in my head of Tampa Bay absolutely demolishing Oakland, who had the MVP and an incredible offense running the WCO, in the Super bowl.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse


I know what you mean. But I saw an NFL Films about that SuperBowl. They were inteviewing Gannon after-the-fact.

Basically him and several other Raiders said they got killed b/c Gruden simply knew all their offensive plays. Callahan ran the same playbook that Gruden did the year before.

Gannon said that when the offense came to the line in formation, he could hear John Lynch calling out the name of the play/formation to the defense (literally the name that the Raiders would use in the huddle) and lining everyone up.

In that instance, it seems like it was less the effectiveness of the Tampa-2 and moreso the Gruden-factor.

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

Screw the fancy legend-like titles for a scheme.

Get 11 dudes on offense and defesne, coach 'em up and put 'em on the field.

All this 'WCO', 'Spread', '3-4/4-3' stuff is rubbish.

F schemes. It's all about the players, you "scheme" according to your personnel.

The 'skins aren't a WCO team. THATS why I'm not too high on Zorn, at least in D.C.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

and I'm willing to bet I don't care if Stafford sucks

I'm also willing to bet I HOPE JC has a better career than Stafford

Posted by: TheTruth11 | May 8, 2009 2:40 PM

And thus endeth the bloggal love affair with Knowshon Moreno ...

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 3:04 PM | Report abuse

I hate the WCO.

nit picky nickel dime SJK.

It's a measly way to win a game

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 2:52 PM

Put me down as someone who'd rather go 11-5 with 11 measly wins that 5-11 with 5 non-measly wins.

Do they list measly wins differently in the record books? Say, put a pockmark by them? If so, I think that Norv Turner must have more measly wins than anyone else around.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Who needs cap space? Backload the contract w/ deferred paydays 'cause the cap is disappearing...

And when it does, I hope someone comes up with something similar to my 'pay by position & rank' scheme. Do away with agents once and for all!

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV = Al Davis

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"As much as we are talking about the O-line, and the development of Campbell and the WRs, I think Zorn's development as a playcaller is equally as important.

Posted by: VaTerp1"

Absolutely. No question about that.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Sick of seein' Zorn try to bang that square peg, eh Red?

That's what it felt like last year. Even when they were 'successful', he was still unhappy that it wasn't HIS show that was winning, but Gibbs'.

Frekkin cry bebbe, that Zorny.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

One more interesting fact about the 3-4, the only two teams in the NFL to never use it as a base defense are the Skins and Bears.

Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009 1:27 PM

and Greg Blatche is the 'mutual friend' of both!

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

I think Zorn's development as a playcaller is equally as important.

Posted by: VaTerp1

If I were a bad play caller and wanted to get better at it, what would I do? Is there a course or something? A personal trainer?

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

I doubt if the 'skins sign anyone for defense.

Hall, Hayney, and Orakpo.

I think in their minds, they're good. I don't know for sure, but I think they drafted Orakpo primarily for SLB and that's where he'll play this year.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

" think the 3-4 may have its roots in the 40's. I think the Chiefs used it in the SB in 1970... though I may be wrong.Posted by: moosepod"

Y'know, now that you mention it, I think they may have. Not what you'd call a 3-4 in today's terminology, but they shifted into a formation where you had a NT (was it Curley Culp?) and a big tall DE (I'm thinking Buck Buchanan") and flopped around a rush LB, who I believe was Bobby Bell.

Stram was quite the innovator.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 8, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Sick of seein' Zorn try to bang that square peg, eh Red?

That's what it felt like last year. Even when they were 'successful', he was still unhappy that it wasn't HIS show that was winning, but Gibbs'.

Frekkin cry bebbe, that Zorny.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse


Stay medium, dude...

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

Great, T_E - what Stuporbowl did Norv win again? lol.

I'd rather win the right way. By beating the snot out of the opponent. Not by 'trick-play' for a whole game.

The Draw is a gadget. So is the dink&dunk. I don't care if they're staples now. That's just born of short attention spans.

Don't you remember the utter frustration of playing against SanFran back then? ugh. It was like being attacked by gnats!

You can win lots of ways. I'd rather do it the right way than with a trick.

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:15 PM | Report abuse

duhhhh - pockmark.. just got it >|-\ dohp!

&lol@pfunk

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

"In that instance, it seems like it was less the effectiveness of the Tampa-2 and moreso the Gruden-factor.

Posted by: p1funk"

Yea, that makes sense. It definitely factored in. But Tampa Bay did put a number on both SFO and PHI in those playoffs, allowing a combined 16 points and 0 TD passes, both of whom ran the WCO.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

"If I were a bad play caller and wanted to get better at it, what would I do? Is there a course or something? A personal trainer?

Posted by: talent_evaluator"

In a situation where you'd normally screw up, decide what you want to do, then do the opposite. Boom. TD.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

4th, don't ever say I'm wrong about anything. Ever.

You copy?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 1:54 PM

Actually I didn't. Friday has me in a daze....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

Sween, good one. (lol)

Al Davis, huh?

Gimme 'Werid Al' money & my own squadron and I'll live up to that equation all day.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:24 PM | Report abuse

PSP, that's the Costanza School of playcalling, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle | May 8, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Yea, that makes sense. It definitely factored in. But Tampa Bay did put a number on both SFO and PHI in those playoffs, allowing a combined 16 points and 0 TD passes, both of whom ran the WCO.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse


I hear you.

I think that Tampa Bay D was also just flat-out studly...

Posted by: p1funk | May 8, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

RedDMV = Al Davis

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 3:07 PM

Not actually a bad thing. We all need an Al Davis in our lives.

Call me Ralph Wilson....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

I'm falling back from the Zorn blasting.

I've come to terms that he's the coach this year. Other than expressing my discontent there is nothing more I can really do about that.

"Either rough ride, ride rough, or rode over"

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

It's because of Friday, that by 8 PM I'll be in a daze, you heard?

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:35 PM | Report abuse

"PSP, that's the Costanza School of playcalling, right?

Posted by: DikShuttle"

I actually spawned it independently while attempting to bet on sporting events. Damned lines.

It was only reinforced by one Mr. Costanza.

Posted by: psps23 | May 8, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

hey, what happened to the school vouchers convo?

Posted by: steveets | May 8, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

"hope you are right, but if I'm any defensive coordinator in the NFC East I am going to overload the right tackle's side with fleet footed linebackers until they make a convert out of me. Everybody was watching the Steelers and Ravens games last season. They know where the weakness is and they see the Redskins' struggles this offseason to fix that weakness. 3-4, heck, we'll probably see 2-5 fronts this season. Posted by: RedSkinHead"

Now I hope you're right, because if you know what's coming, you can beat it. The Ravens and the Steelers are effective not just because of scheme but because they execute it so darn well. So does Tennessee (did?)

The Skins have a really good defense, except for 3 things. They don't pressure the QB (29th in sacks, 17th in INTs) and they don't punt all that well for field position (15th). You can almost read the FOs mind on this point: improve in those 3 respects, you're a contender.

Funny, because we spend so much time here chewing on the offense. Be great if the offense was better, of course. Particularly at punching the ball into the end zone.

Posted by: Samson151 | May 8, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

hey, what happened to the school vouchers convo?

Posted by: steveets | May 8, 2009 3:36 PM

It came and pass. Do you have anything new to add? It's Friday, so everything is open...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

hey, what happened to the school vouchers convo?

Posted by: steveets | May 8, 2009 3:36 PM |

We solved that yesterday. Case closed. We've moved on. We never go back over old stuff. We make occasional exceptions for Antonio Clary, Ryan Pierce, Leigh Arrington, LaVar Torrence. But not school vouchers.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse

If Orakpo plays like Mayo, Willis or Merriman did at LB as a rookie, the Skins will have an elite defense. The kind of defense that gets you to 8 wins even without much of an offense.

Campbell's success depends on the OL and Santana's hammy. When those 2 pieces are right, Campbell's plays at a top 10 QB level and the team wins. Problem is, both the OL and Santana's hammy lasted only 8 games in 2008.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 8, 2009 3:43 PM | Report abuse

It came and pass. Do you have anything new to add? It's Friday, so everything is open...

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 3:39 PM


THat's what she said

Posted by: GreatOne1 | May 8, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"Either rough ride, ride rough, or rode over"

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 3:33 PM

No, THAT's what she said. [Seriously, lubricant, don't leave home without it.]

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 3:57 PM | Report abuse

If Orakpo plays like Mayo, Willis or Merriman did at LB as a rookie, the Skins will have an elite defense. ...

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 8, 2009 3:43 PM

... on the other hand, Mayo, Willis, and Merriman all played LB in college. Its one thing to take an elite college game and kick it up to the pro level, its another thing to develop a different skill set. Still, I'm optimistic about Orakpo (at least by around Week 6).

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

If Orakpo plays like Mayo, Willis or Merriman did at LB as a rookie, the Skins will have an elite defense. The kind of defense that gets you to 8 wins even without much of an offense.

Haynesworth, Orapko, Daniels, Carter, Montgomery, Golston, Alexander, Wynn, Fletcher, Thomas, McIntosh, Wilson, Blades, Jackson and ? need to "mesh". The coaching staff needs to put together "packages" that put them in the best possible situations to exploit their talents.

To first shutdown the run even better than last year.

On passing downs: Hall has to completely replace Shawn Springs as the #1 shutdown corner. Barnes has to step up to replace Smoot as the 3rd corner along with Carlos Rogers. They have to shutdown receivers along with help from guys like McIntosh, Thomas, Landry, Doughty and Horton.

This will allow rush/blitz packages including Haynesworth, Carter, Orapko, Landry, Thomas, Montgomery, Wilson, Jackson to put pressure on the passer.

The coaching staff will be very, very, very busy trying their best to put these guys in the best possible situations ... it won't be easy ... fortunately Blache and company seem up to the task.

I will be happy if Orapko, Thomas, and Wilson together make everyone forget Lance Briggs in Chicago. :) The potential exists ... can they realize it?


Campbell's success depends on the OL and Santana's hammy. When those 2 pieces are right, Campbell's plays at a top 10 QB level and the team wins. Problem is, both the OL and Santana's hammy lasted only 8 games in 2008.

The OL will be a work in progress throughout the season. I would still sign Levi Jones in spite of his injury problems. Combine him with Samuels, Heyer, Williams, Thomas et al and you come up with reasonable depth at the tackle and guard positions. They must still draft or find undrafted talent to play and eventually start at every position on the line ...

Santana's hammy was supposed to have been taken care of by drafting the 3 amigos. Now they have drafted yet another speedy WR in the seventh round in Marko, plus they have signed some additional people.

Not sure how Zorn will put all of those disparate pieces together. His job looks a lot harder than Blache's on the defensive side of the ball. Lots of turnover on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Still looks like they are definitely rolling the die this year.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | May 8, 2009

Posted by: periculum | May 8, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

... on the other hand, Mayo, Willis, and Merriman all played LB in college. Its one thing to take an elite college game and kick it up to the pro level, its another thing to develop a different skill set. Still, I'm optimistic about Orakpo (at least by around Week 6).


Posted by: dcsween

Correction...Merriman played DE @ UMD.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 4:08 PM | Report abuse

Wow...just this morning I posted the news that Brian Mitchell will be inducted into the Redskins Ring of Honor sometime during the 2009 season.

Now, I hear that BMitch has been cut by ESPN 980 - today was his last day!! Contract non-renewal? Al Koken also cut (I will not miss him).

What's up with that?????

Posted by: Lisa_R | May 8, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

Sorry that should say 3-4 for the Dolphins.
Posted by: Flounder21 | May 8, 2009

The "53" defense. Wasn't used 100% of the time. The Skins likely would have won that going away if Allen had played Sonny Jurgenson, replaced Billy Kilmer when the running game and Kilmer's play action passes proved ineffective.

Instead he deactivated him and put him up in the booth. Jurgenson ran a different "offense" as back then the QB called their own plays. He would have run the Lombardi/Bill Austin offense. That offense, when run by Jurgenson, would have been effective against the Fins in 1972.

14-7 for Jurgenson would have been like giving Candy to a baby in the 4th quarter. Griese was not even in the same league as SJ and Schula probably knew it as he once had Unitas as his QB.

Posted by: periculum | May 8, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

What's up with that?????

Posted by: Lisa_R | May 8, 2009 4:11 PM

The country is in a major recession. The media have been particularly hard hit because advertising revenue is was down. Expect more layoffs like this - including at our host, the Post.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Wow...just this morning I posted the news that Brian Mitchell will be inducted into the Redskins Ring of Honor sometime during the 2009 season.

Now, I hear that BMitch has been cut by ESPN 980 - today was his last day!! Contract non-renewal? Al Koken also cut (I will not miss him).

What's up with that?????

Posted by: Lisa_R | May 8, 2009 4:11 PM

Snyder cuts B-Mitch yet again. I wonder if he will goto rival radio stations and try and get back @ Snyder once again. This cut doesn't surprise me, but how can you cut Smoken Al Koken.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Smoken Al Koken.

Posted by: Diesel44 | May 8, 2009 4:14 PM

The recession, together with the internet, is killing the media. They have to downsize.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

The country is in a major recession. The media have been particularly hard hit because advertising revenue is was down. Expect more layoffs like this - including at our host, the Post.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | May 8, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

The hilarious part about WaPo cutting positions is that JLaC is probably safe because we are always on this site. We read everything and respond. He probably posts some of the things he does not because he believes them, but because he knows that he will get blasted by 40 different commenters, while others comment on the comments, etc. He generates traffic.

Posted by: moosepod | May 8, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Now, I hear that BMitch has been cut by ESPN 980 - today was his last day!! Contract non-renewal? Al Koken also cut (I will not miss him).

What's up with that?????

Posted by: Lisa_R | May 8, 2009 4:11 PM

Makes sense. The listeners are bleeding. I stopped listening back in JAnuary, and I was a very avid listener....

Posted by: 4thFloor | May 8, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

anyone think we should get the rams recently released linebacker? not sure if he plays strong or weak tho

Posted by: jasonma1 | May 8, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

He's an often injured WLB. We already have a better one in McIntosh....

Posted by: siris | May 8, 2009 4:38 PM | Report abuse

what, no beeping me over?

Posted by: dcsween | May 8, 2009 4:51 PM | Report abuse

To Those who think that Orapko should play "defensive end" espcially Mr. abxinc ... look
at this guy who is still unsigned as of now:
(Imagine him at linebacker with Orapko on the other side. If Snyder wants to trade a 1st next year and Rocky Mac, Blades that would be fine with me. That's building a dynasty.)

Terrell Suggs #55 LB
2008 STATS
TACKLES_____FF____INT__SACKS
---68--------2-----2-----8

Height 6-3
Weight 260 lbs.
Age 26>

Experience 7 years
College Arizona State

2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 85 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Suggs didn't have his best season in 2007, recording a career-low five sacks. He started the season particularly slow and even though his sack numbers don't bear it out, Suggs is still a feared pass rusher in the prime of his impressive career. While he didn't light it up as a sack artist, Suggs did record his career high in tackles during the 2007 season and has become an all around defensive force. He can play a traditional defensive end with his hand on the ground or as a linebacker in the two-point stance with the ability to drop into coverage and handle the flats. He has a long, lean and athletic body and plays stronger than his frame would suggest. Suggs is very competitive and durable. He is a leader who shows excellent toughness in all regards. Suggs is an exceptional athlete with tremendous balance and body control. Plus, he is sudden and quick in all of his movements without getting out of control.

Posted by: periculum | May 8, 2009 5:04 PM | Report abuse

Speaking of Swine Flu, How 'Bout Them Hogs?? Not like the O-line is all feverish, like Zorny, but at what point do the Skins stop looking like a farm team at O-line so Portis can run into the record books and Campbell can shine in the Super Bowl?? Or is 2009 a designated manure pile and Zorn's future job in Seattle has already been decided by secret tribunal so that Danny can get Shanahan or Cowher??

Posted by: frak | May 8, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Fire Cerrato. Hire Holmgren.

Posted by: BMACattack | May 8, 2009 11:35 PM | Report abuse

I would say F Zorn and his corny SHEhawk socks, but he is the "head coach", I'm just not sold if his supposed to be one.

Couldn't crack a coordinator spot in his time in Seattle... couldn't even get dibs on the HC spot once Holmgren left.

Holmegren supports Zorn because, what would it look like if he didn't? I think he has to in a way.

I hope he's successful as head coach, even if i don't care for him that much.

Posted by: RedDMV | May 8, 2009 12:07 PM

I would bet a week's salary that your IQ is under 100.

Posted by: terpsfan09 | May 9, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Edwin Williams Jr. that is one ugly dude, at least that has got to be a bad picture. Especially as the cover for the Skins section for so long. Dockery has a Satchel look from Get Fuzzy. Orakpo is beautiful looking man at least in a football sense. Might not quite be GQ but you know. But Eddy here with the big bandaid on his head all disshoveled looking. Have some mercy on the guy.

Posted by: chavez66 | May 10, 2009 10:13 AM | Report abuse

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