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Posted at 2:30 PM ET, 12/28/2010

Calling foul on the peace process farce

By Jennifer Rubin

The New York Post editorial board offers this refreshing bit of candor:

Cutting a peace deal with the Palestinians is "impossible" right now, Israel's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman told Israeli diplomats on Sunday.

No kidding.

Anyone startled by such a statement obviously has been living in a cave since DiMaggio was still wearing pinstripes.

"Even if we offered the Palestinians Tel Aviv" and shrank Israel into the sliver of a sliver it constituted in 1947, "we wouldn't have a deal," Lieberman said. And, of course, he's correct.

Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu finger-wagged at Lieberman and denied this was official policy. Well, that is accurate. Netanyahu, far from being the hardliner whom the American left and the "international community" vilify for supposed indifference to the peace deal, has more than played along with the canard that the Palestinian Authority is devoted to negotiating a two-state solution. But we know that's ludicrous:

Chances for Mideast peace are now, just as they were at Israel's founding, sabotaged by Arab intransigence.

Indeed, the Palestinians are now skirting direct talks and trying what Lieberman calls diplomatic war -- pushing the United Nations to acclaim an independent Palestine, talks be damned.

The only thing more futile that George Mitchell and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton shuttling back and forth trying to restart the "peace process," which never really got under way, is having the two of them do so while the PA runs to international bodies and a hodgepodge of status-seeking minor international players to gain what the Palestinians refuse to bargain for. At some point, isn't it time to stop pretending that Israel has a viable "peace partner"?

By Jennifer Rubin  | December 28, 2010; 2:30 PM ET
Categories:  Israel  
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Comments

Poor article - biased and does not reflect reality. Israel is uninterested in peace with the Palestinians and the sole objective is land acquisition by fair and foul means. Mostly foul. It is about time Europe and other parts of the world recognised Palestine with borders based on the 1967 boundaries. Articles of this nature are solely for the blinded Israeli right and do not consist of serious political thinking.

Posted by: michael_ah_oleary | December 28, 2010 3:24 PM | Report abuse

"Even if we offered the Palestinians Tel Aviv" and shrank Israel into the sliver of a sliver it constituted in 1947, "we wouldn't have a deal, Lieberman said. Really? Then why not try it? Israel would gain much-needed international respectability.
And that "sliver" by the way? The only land to which Israel is actually entitled. The rest is stolen.

Posted by: kstack | December 28, 2010 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Just for the Love of straight truthful expression.
"Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages, where they and their fathers dwelt, into our estate---
We will make our reckoning with ourselves today; we are a generation that settles the land and without the steel helmet and the canon's maw, we will not be able to plant a tree and build a home. Let us not be deterred from seeing the loathing that is inflaming and filling the lives of the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who live around us. Let us not avert our eyes lest our arms weaken.
This is the fate of our generation. This is our life's choice - to be prepared and armed, strong and determined, lest the sword be stricken from our fist and our lives cut down" DAYAN
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Quote/dayan1.html

Posted by: rcaruth | December 28, 2010 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Palestinians looking for the UN recognizes it? The US should lead the way and just recognize the State of Palestine with the green line as its border. Enough is enough.

Posted by: timothy2me | December 28, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Every terrorist has stated that the rage and hostility felt toward the US is created by our blanket support of Israel. I think we should put this to the test: we will announce that we will be fair and unbiased, and will no longer allow any country to dictate the direction of our foreign policy. We will no longer send billions of dollars to any Middle East country which has a secret nuclear weapons program, defies UN resolutions, invades other countries, uses illegal cluster bombs and American made weapons against another people, or builds homes on disputed land. Billions given to weapons and war will instead be funneled at home, focusing on infrastructure, education, and creating new jobs, and globally, towards promoting peace, and creating healthy environments.
Taking away a terrorist's main claim might be a good test, and it would be a promising direction for all countries to see the United States be a leader of peace instead of a follower of fear.

Posted by: tigertwin | December 28, 2010 5:10 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the liberals desperately need some new material. It is hard to imagine a more hide bound and closed minded view of the world than that of the garden variety American leftie.

Most of the comments here can be filed under the category "look how wrong you can be". It is a testment to the effectiveness of the Arab/muslim propaganda machine that the liberals here love the mass murdering jihadists and hate the peace seeking jews.

I have a few questions for the liberals who have vented their spleens here:
Kstack: of what value to anybody is "international respectability"? How does it compare in value to oh say, going a few days in a row without an assault on Israel's civilian population?

To Mr O'leary: if Europe "abandonned" Israel what would change? given the fact that they made a real effort to eradicate the jews in the 20th century and are now providing sanctuary to the folks who want to try eradication again in the 21st century, how would anyone in Israel percieve a difference?

and next is timothy2me: enough of what is enough? Have you had enough of arabs killing each other in Palestine yet? Enough poltical opponents thrown from roofs to suit you yet? Had enough of terror attacks on innocent Israelis at the hands of mass murdering Arabs yet? Had enough of swallowing the arab lies and propaganda yet? Or do you think that Israel deserves nothing more than an army of Samir Kuntars? Have the arabs killed enough jews yet? Please advise.

To rcaruth: got a problem with tough talk from a strong person? Are you really the weenie you come off as here on this comment board?
to tigertwin: are you saying that caving to the terrorists is the path to peace in the world? Should we cave to, oh say the North Koreans when they make demands after behaving badly? Are you channelling Neville Chamberlain, or did you come by appeasement through your own "logic"?

The responses here are predictable. They are based on liberal dogma and not much else. Eric Hoffer explains the relationship between true believers and their dogma quite well. Everything must be explain to liberals by liberal dogma and the comment here prove Mr Hoffer to be correct in his thinking. March on true believers, nirvannah is nigh.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | December 28, 2010 5:26 PM | Report abuse

as a postscript to skipsailing28's response to the lovers of hate and death, I continue to wonder where they all get brainwashed into believing the whining victimology of the post-colonial Imperialists of Islam, an ideology that hides behind the false name of 'religion', an iseology based solely on hatred of the 'other', whether Jew, Christian, Hindu, or animist?

Why is it that only the Muslim majority countries have failed to move beyond whatever shackles they had during western colonialism despite the hundreds of billions of oil wealth available for sustainable development?

Gaza could be on it's way to the Singapore of the Eastern Mediterranean, with better beaches, but for the hatred that keeps Gazans whining and dreaming of death. Reminder - the Egypt-Israel blockade came AFTER Hamas devoted all of it's energies to war.

not that there is any room for a bit of truth in the pointy-heads of leftists.

Posted by: K2K2 | December 28, 2010 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Scary how difficult it is to post an opinion and not have people hurl nasty adjectives and make wild conjectures all over the place. Convincing people by calling them Pointy-heads, weenies, mass murderer lovers, and assuming that all these horrid writers are liberals isn't the most convincing way to present a serious discussion. How about no name calling, no red zone rage, no outraged assumptions unless certain?
Wish online discussions didn't always degenerate into these blind personal attacks.

Posted by: tigertwin | December 28, 2010 6:02 PM | Report abuse

tigertwin, maybe that can happen but it won't happen here. Too much 'need to protect and defend' going on from so many sides.

I'm finding it's no longer very interesting to read the monotonic all-angry-all-the-time. There's so much beauty and good works in the world, but around here you'd think it couldn't exist.

Posted by: MsJS | December 28, 2010 6:37 PM | Report abuse

How can Palestinians negotiate when Israel has been systematically colonizing their land illegally for the past 43 years?? One thing that has been constant is the colonization. If Palestinians remained peaceful, Israel still colonized their land. If they were violent, Israel did the same. It doesn't matter--it is all a farce because Israel's policy is land theft, and our American tax dollars are financing this theft (at the tune of over 4 billion dollars a year) where it would be applied to our public schools instead!

Posted by: alisonsheehan33 | December 28, 2010 6:47 PM | Report abuse

Zionist posters; why don't you guys get it? You won! (Don't worry, be happy)

No two state solution; simply infeasible by now.

No one state solution; being as political sovereignty must be defined to a particular religion.

No possibility for an enduring vile and foul Apartheid; this cannot last.

The Palestinians still exist, despite your contentions that they don't exist.

So when the time of American imprimatur finally expires, the basis reality will come into clearer focus.

Zionism is racism and unending war. It cannot turn out well because unending war never does, and never can.

And you blame those who sought to warn you of this inevitability? Like, it our fault?


Posted by: tarquinis1 | December 28, 2010 7:13 PM | Report abuse

How many countries have recognized a Palestinian state?

Posted by: belmontguy | December 28, 2010 7:18 PM | Report abuse


At some point, isn't it time to stop pretending that Israel is a viable "peace partner"?

Posted by: googleguy | December 28, 2010 7:35 PM | Report abuse

What a ghoulish lot the "anti-Zionists" here are. And, of course, not one serious rebuttal to Jen's piece from them. Yuckety-yuk, you rabid ghouls; do your parents know what you do on the 'Net? Like pursuing the old war against the Jews?

Let's see, Jews are the wrong religion, they are the wrong race, they are not a race, they were not real Europeans, but invading Asiatics and didn't belong in Europe, but now they are actually Europeans or "Khazars" and not real Jews and should be dragged back to Europe (or Khazaria?). Jews can simultaneously be capitalists and communists, rootless cosmopolitans, establishment types and revolutionaries, weaklings and powerful oppressors; they are too poor, too rich, too powerfull, too weak, too universal, too liberal, too conservative, etc. Sounds familiar, don't it?

But hark, a remnant of Europe's Jews managed to crawl out of the Nazi ovens and the Eastern European killing fields, made it out of Europe, and built an independent, dynamic, successful and just nation state on their ancient homeland, a haven from ghouls the world over. So, how do we continue the millenia-old war against them? Apparently with some creativity, a lot of lies and a bundle of petrodollars. So, the KGB creates "Palestinians," (perhaps not knowing that that's what the Jews were called by the Brits and Arabs) right after Arab unity and competence on the military field prove to be a joke. Out of a thin and murky porridge of Arab colonists, forcibly Islamisized peoples, landless Syrian migrants, absentee landlords and illiterate Ottoman serfs rises KGB-PLO's phoenix, a veritable uebermensch, the mythical "Palestinian." Not a hard scam to pull, since Hitler already started on the "palestinianism" myth with the old Mufti. Let's call the "Pals" an indigenous people, noble savages no less, give them a chunk of the old Palestine Mandate, and then import a "monarchy," call their new place "Jordan" and don't let a single Jew in. Let's pretend that "Palestinians" are actual refugees by deeming any Muslim or Arab descending from anyone who claims to have lived in the Palestine Mandate for two years. Give them more rights and money than any of the real refugees in the world, assign massive UN assistance to keep them in "refugee camps," paid mostly by Europe of course, and find ways to help the poor oppressed darlings to kill more Jews and to plot a new Holocaust with any Islamist or fascist strongman of the day.

Remarkable, how in the tradition of the Final Solution to the Zionist (i.e., Jewish) Problem, our ghouls, the brave new Hitlerjugend, who now hide out among the "progressives," will embrace even the most primitive, disgusting and murderous losers, magically transforming them into admirable victim-heroes. Even when they target and kill civilians, strap bombs on their own kids and women, or dance in the streets on 9/11.

Posted by: p_kovachev | December 28, 2010 7:56 PM | Report abuse


How many countries have recognized a Palestinian state?


Posted by: belmontguy |
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1020&bih=534&q=recognition+of+palestinian+state&aq=1sv&aqi=g1g-sv1&aql=&oq=recognition+of+palestine&gs_rfai=

Posted by: rcaruth | December 28, 2010 9:41 PM | Report abuse

Thank you, p_kovachev. I haven't the strength anymore.

Posted by: garyfrank1 | December 28, 2010 9:55 PM | Report abuse

Something that not one poster here has even seemed to realize is that there is already a Palestinian state, with an army, a police force, machine guns, rockets, missiles, terrorist killers,and suicide bombers. This Palestinian state has already murdered hundred of innocent Israeli civilians, executed hundreds of Palestinians who opposed their rule (mainly PLO members and secular Palestinians), has declared war on America, and has promised to destroy Israel and exterminate all the Jews the first chance it gets. Indeed, this Palestinian state already carries out missile and terrorist attacks on Israeli towns every day. This Palestinian state is of course the former Gaza Strip, is ruled by a branch of the fundamentalist Islamic Brotherhood calling itself Hamas, and is financed and armed by Iran and other rogue Islamic states like Libya and Syria. The other Palestinian state, the one that the PLO wants to declare, will be declared on territories still held by Israel. The rulers of this "second" Palestinian state have already publicly adopted the Hamas plan for Israel's destruction and the extermination of the Jews. Of course the PLO gang there is just a bunch of corrupt and blood thirsty secularist murderers while the Hamas gang in Gaza/Palestine is a little different in that they are a corrupt and blood thirsty religious murderers. Now Israel is no longer naive and fully realizes that the next Palestinian state will differ in no significant way from the one established in the Gaza Strip. This is why Israel has serious doubts about the sincerity of the PLO and it's claim to be negotiating with a peaceful settlement with Israel. Every statement issued by the PLO and it's gang called the Palestinian Authority clearly calls for or obviously implies that they plan on destroying Israel and the Jews militarily, diplomatically, and demographically.
Now is that how a peace loving group is supposed to behave?

Posted by: Beniyyar | December 29, 2010 3:40 AM | Report abuse

Belmont Guy asked:How many countries have recognized a Palestinian state?
The answer is 106 UN member states, including 8 of the world's nine most populous states(all except the United States).

Posted by: karin2 | December 29, 2010 9:18 AM | Report abuse

"Belmont Guy asked:How many countries have recognized a Palestinian state?
The answer is 106 UN member states, including 8 of the world's nine most populous states(all except the United States)."

So, apparently there already is a Palestinian state. What's all the complaining about, then?

Posted by: adam62 | December 29, 2010 9:24 AM | Report abuse

garyfrank1: Quite understandable. I did have one tactical advantage though; a big cup of my wife's killer coffee that'll keep me up and wired 'til the weekend!

Beniyyar: Good point, although I'm inclined to compare "Hamastan" to the Muslim pirate lairs on the Mediterranean coast in the 18th 19th century. They functioned as states in many respects and their bosses gave themselves airs and concocted all sorts of officious-sounding and impressive titles, just as the PA and Hamas goons do today. Contrary to UN's idea that a state is a state when the UN says so, this state-status seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Hence, you can call Hamastan a nasty terror state and I can call it a dirty bandit lair, and we can both be 100% right. What's important to remember, though, is that without massive international handouts (or more accurately, tribute) and Israeli largesse, all of the three Pali states, proto-states, ersatz-states or states-wanna-bes...i.e., the "Kingdom" of Jordan, the PA squatting in Judea and Samaria, and now the Hamastan loonie bin, would deflate and expire like yesterday's birthday balloon within a fortnight.

Posted by: p_kovachev | December 29, 2010 9:55 AM | Report abuse

Thank you p_kovachev for your concise dose of truth December 28, 2010 7:56 PM .
and beniyyar.

Since the release of the National Archives report that shows the direct linkage between Hitler's Nazis and the Grand Mufti al-Husayni as well as other Arab "nationalists" and Baathists during and after WW2, I wonder why the Mufti's PLO/PA/Fatah is not eligible for indictment for daily crimes against humanity and incitement to genocide since 1948 -

Posted by: K2K2 | December 29, 2010 10:56 AM | Report abuse

So here's a stupid question. I'm sorry if it seems stupid to you, but I'm not up to date on this whole issue. I have not taken a side one way or the other:

So if over 100 UN member countries(which is never mentioned in the newspapers) have recognized a Paletinian state, why hasn't the US? What is the US trying to accomplish that all these other countries seem indifferent to?

Posted by: belmontguy | December 29, 2010 1:05 PM | Report abuse

K2K2: Thanks, and I like your "handle" !

True. We all knew of the Mufti's genocidal credentials and the connection between Arab nationalists an the German Nazis, but not the extent and only few of the details. This allowed post-War historians to treat the connection as a footnote and some, like Elizabeth Monroe, treated it as a minor aberration, an "understandable" result of anti-colonial struggle against Britain and France. Now we know about Hitler's admiration of Islam, Arab nationalism and that his Final Solution involved not only camps and killing centres in Poland, but counterparts in the Middle East. It's clearer now that "palestinianism" is either an invention of Hitler's or its first practical endorsement. Given how "anti-Zionist" today's neo-Nazis and neo-fascists are, there is no doubt that were Hitler alive today, he would be staunchly pro-Arab and pro-Plaestinian.

The laws of thermodynamics don't apparently allow for energy to appear from nowhere and to disappear magically into nowhere. So it is with Jew-hatred and the war against the Jews. They go back in time and, as we all know, haven't gone away. I think that the energy that resulted in the glorification of authoritarian statism and the attempted destruction of the Jews in WW II didn't evaporate into space, but can be seen in its transformed states in world events today. So, Europe is trying its hardest to become the new Reich, a modern Holy Roman Empire of sorts, whose memory exercised Hitler's imagination. And, most of the remaining European Jews have been flushed out of Europe through prejudice, direct actions of the Soviet Union and its satelites, and more recently by institutional hostility and Euro-Muslim violence.

What fuels "palestinianism" is not humanitarian concern. If that were the case, its activists would be hard on the heels of the Arab states and the brutal "self-governments" the designated "Palestinians" live under. We also know that it is not some ideal of self-determination that fuels "palestinianism" either. If that were the case, the pro-Pals might at least notice scores of other peoples who have a much better claim to nationhood and sovereignity...and most of them are much nicer and more admirable than the "Pals" too. But none of these others have promised to eliminate the only Jewish refuge in the world.

We need to chip away at the illusions of "palestinianism." The full scale international and multi-pronged attack against Israel, which is what this is all about is nothing but a continuation of the dirty old war against the Jew. This war sees periodic upsurges like expulsions, forced conversions, pogroms, massacres and the unprecedented Nazi program involving modern "genocide factories. Today's flavour is "anti-Zionism," which really means the rejection of mainstream Judaism, which is Zionist by definition, and the attempt to injure or destroy Israel, the reality and symbol of Jewish sovereignity after a hiatus of two millenia.

Posted by: p_kovachev | December 29, 2010 1:33 PM | Report abuse

belmontguy: Not a stupid question at all. Here's my take.

You'll note that the majority of those states are in some way client states, international paupers who, bluntly put, must sing for their supper for aid, recognition and oil. They depend on the goodwill of the UN establishment and the Muslim block. You will note too that the EU and most "firts world" nations have not followed suit. You can be sure that these 100 countries, as you claim, couldn't give a rodent's rectum for the "Palestinians." You can also be sure that had the US grumbled and attached real costs to this blatant act of craven submission, only Muslim countries would have voted for recognition.

Another thing to bear in mind is that this is not a mere recognition of peoplehood or right to statehood. That has been accepted, even by Israel. The issue is that the recognition accepts only the Arab narrative and demands regarding territory, demands which are supposed to be negotiated on.

As for why on earth Americans should side with the Islamic world in its attempt to destroy the last non-Muslim state on "Islamic turf" after Lebanon's islamification, that's perhaps something you can answer.

Posted by: p_kovachev | December 29, 2010 1:53 PM | Report abuse

As for why on earth Americans should side with the Islamic world in its attempt to destroy the last non-Muslim state on "Islamic turf" after Lebanon's islamification, that's perhaps something you can answer.

Posted by: p_kovachev

Because Americans are only interested in the NE regarding the price of their gasoline,and whose side do we have to favor to keep it 4$ a Gallon. If China wipes out Taiwan,same message,we go with the flow/money. The fly in the ointment is as always Israel's ambivilant nukes. If Israel threatens to use them,the mouse keeps control of its elephant. The elephant should call the mouse's bluff.

Posted by: rcaruth | December 29, 2010 5:27 PM | Report abuse

p_kovachev: Why is China one of the 100+ countries recognizing a Palestinian state?

rcaruth: What does oil have to do with Israel & Palestinians?

Posted by: belmontguy | December 30, 2010 5:47 PM | Report abuse

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