Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
Posted at 10:00 AM ET, 02/10/2011

Herzliya wrap-up

By Jennifer Rubin

Today, I am en route back to Washington, D.C. Being in Israel at a time of regional upheaval -- more so than usual -- is an interesting experience. The gap between reality and media image is never so great as when you visit a functioning, affluent, cosmopolitan country that is, unlike its neighbors, tranquil and fully within the Western world.

For more than 60 years the United States and Israel have enjoyed a warm relationship. In a real sense, the United States has been the senior partner -- providing economic and military aid, using its influence to shield Israel from harm on the international stage, and providing counsel. Now the United States is more akin to a flaky teenager -- self-absorbed and flighty. Literally and figuratively rolling their eyes, Israelis are chagrined and nervous that their partner is now, like an errant teenager, undependable and unpredictable.

In Herzliya, in Tel Aviv, in Jerusalem and the West Bank (more about that in the days and weeks ahead) the country builds and grows. Tel Aviv is filled with construction cranes. Many of the suburbs of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, which the administration insists on calling "settlements" (they resemble housing developments in the San Fernando Valley in California), are in their fourth generation. And yet Israel's biggest problems these days seem to be with the international community, whose media and government elites come to Herzliya to lecture Israel about the need to be "forthcoming."

One gets the feeling that for 11 years the same people, spouting the same positions, have been coming to Herzliya to describe how the rest of the world regards Israel and what an arduous task Israel faces in getting back into the world's good graces. You have to wonder why the Israelis bother. It seems to perpetuate the view that Israel is about strife and bad PR. There is that, but there is also a rich national experience that is crowded out of view.

Here's a suggestion: Invite Europeans and Americans to a conference entirely about Israel -- its economy, its technology, its archaeological findings and its absorption of refugees from other countries. That might at least teach the outside world about the real Israel, as opposed to the media creation that turns Israel into nothing more than a player at odds with the Palestinians, the Muslim countries, the Europeans, etc. Really, can you imagine Russia hosting an annual conference where the world comes to tell Russia about the occupation of Georgia, its testy relationship with other former Soviet states and the danger posed by Islamic radicals? I can't either.

By Jennifer Rubin  | February 10, 2011; 10:00 AM ET
Categories:  Israel  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Haley Barbour in Israel
Next: Thursday feature: A turn to lighter fare

Comments


OK Mubarak is stepping down. Now that the Saudis are involved, I have a great deal more confidence in the situation.


I have ZERO confidence in Obama.


GEESHHH Did it really take a stern, firm telephone call from the King of Saudi Arabia to get Obama to listen to people ???


Meaning, it sures appears as though Obama was ignoring all the Middle East experts.


JUST like Obama was ignoring all the Generals on the Afghan War as outlined in Woodward's book. Did it really take a telephone call from the King of Saudi Arabia to straighten out Obama??? Unbelievable.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 10:37 AM | Report abuse

Self-absorbed and flighty? Well then maybe Israel should show some "tough love" and cut its ties with the U.S. until the U.S. gets its act together. Sometimes adults have to do things to teach a lesson.

Posted by: mfray | February 10, 2011 10:47 AM | Report abuse

OK Mubarak is stepping down. Now that the Saudis are involved, I have a great deal more confidence in the situation.


I have ZERO confidence in Obama.


GEESHHH Did it really take a stern, firm telephone call from the King of Saudi Arabia to get Obama to listen to people ???


Meaning, it sures appears as though Obama was ignoring all the Middle East experts.


JUST like Obama was ignoring all the Generals on the Afghan War as outlined in Woodward's book. Did it really take a telephone call from the King of Saudi Arabia to straighten out Obama??? Unbelievable.


.

__________________________


Sure seems like Obama had NOTHING to do with Mubarak stepping down.

It is a plan worked out by other people.


Obama is practically a non-entity in terms of influence in the Middle East. Our allies in the region are waiting for Obama's term to be over so they can deal with the next American President.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 10:50 AM | Report abuse

I agree that Israel is a great state in many ways but so to was S. Africa 25yrs ago for the whites in control of the Government.
Granted many Israeli Arab live better than those in Arab countries but still less that equal to the Jewish citizens.
If you read between the lines, Israel has decided on a peace deal with PA State being A areas(40%W.Bank), Gaza and parts of B areas and shared land control of Jordan Valley(20%W.Bank), with Israel keeping most of C areas(40%W.Bank) and military control in Jordan valley. Ma’ale Adumin and Ariel in middle of W. Bank will be political impossible for either side to fully give up, due to key road access and water controls.

63yrs is simply to long for no solution on this but many in Israel feel that as long as building can continue, they gain more with Status Quo while losing in accepting a peace deal.

Posted by: Bloodyscot | February 10, 2011 10:51 AM | Report abuse

Jennifer wrote: "The gap between reality and media image is never so great as when you visit a functioning, affluent, cosmopolitan country that is, unlike its neighbors, tranquil and fully within the Western world."

While the Palestinian victims of Israel's state terrorism live out in the open, cold, hungry, and malnourished, because Israel bombed them mercilessly, keeps them in the world's largest open air prison, and won't even let them have baby food, diapers, nor toilet paper, much less concrete mix so they can put a roof over their heads. The circumstances and appearances are remarkably similar to those old end-of-WWII in Europe films shown on the Military Channel almost daily, except the descendants of those victims are now the tormentors and jailers of these new victims.

Why Jennifer, must we fiscally broken Americans continue to give $billions of dollars to your "affluent, cosmopolitan country" while too many of our children can't afford shoes, jeans, or a backpack to carry their books to their crumbling schools, and who must rely on our government borrowing money to feed them a school lunch?

I know that you and your people have bought our goy politicians fair and square, (they come so cheaply I must say) except when taxpayer dollars are laundered through the Israeli government and returned as campaign contributions through hundreds of pro-Israel organizations, but consider showing some of that mercy that so many of your good people are noted for. You could start by not rubbing it in about how affluent and cosmopolitan you are. It makes my monthly check to a homeless shelter seem so inconsequential compared to the monthly check my taxes pay to Israel.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 10:53 AM | Report abuse

Lazuras unfortunately your description of un merciful bombing of palestinians by the isrealis is an outright lie. Have the Isrealis ever bombed the Palestinians yes but only in response to some provocation and then bombing with restraint. The Isrealis have the military capability of killing tens of thousands a day if it were as you say merciless. this we know does not occur because we would see it every day on msnbc, cnn, algazeera etc. Your assertion of money laundered through Isreali govt. and sent back in campaign contributions is unfounded in facts and preposterous.Your argument about the U.S. giving any aid to any country when we are broke does have merit and is worth an intelligent discussion but unfortunately your blind hatred and distortion of the truth makes that discussion an impossibility with you.

Posted by: eddiehaskall | February 10, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

Is Russia giving the Georgians living in the breakaway provinces they occupy citizenship? If yes, you can use your analogy after Palestinians in occupied territories are granted Israeli citizenship. I think the world would be a lot less critical of Israel if they granted the Palestinians equal rights.

Posted by: billyvw | February 10, 2011 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I've got a better idea. I'd like to invite some Israelis to the small midwestern town where I grew up. There, they can see some of the economic hardships we endured all my life - hardships made worse by our stratospheric military budget. They can go to the cemetery and see the grave markers of some of the kids I went to grade school with who died fighting wars in the Middle East. And then maybe over coffee in a farmhouse kitchen we could discuss how we have our own problems, and that our entire lives shouldn't have to be consumed worrying about nothing but the affairs of a tiny speck on the map on the other side of the globe that none of us has ever been to, but which we see on our evening news every day for our whole lives, and which is costing us money that we could be using to pave roads or send our kids to school.
Maybe I could tell them the tale of spending my entire life listening to somebody named Bush on TV railing about somebody named Hussein, and how after that many kids who sat next to me in school went away and came back and are now in the cemetery, for something that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Posted by: fakedude2 | February 10, 2011 11:33 AM | Report abuse

" Really, can you imagine Russia hosting an annual conference where the world comes to tell Russia about the occupation of Georgia, its testy relationship with other former Soviet states and the danger posed by Islamic radicals? I can't either."

JR,There is a lot you can't imagine,including the idea that Israel looked stupid hosting this conference.

Posted by: rcaruth | February 10, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

eddiehaskel sez: "The Isrealis have the military capability of killing tens of thousands a day if it were as you say merciless. this we know does not occur because we would see it every day on msnbc, cnn, algazeera etc."

If a tree falls in a forest and their is no one around to hear, does it make a sound? Surely you jest sir. There is no way msnbc, cnn, etc., have ever or will ever show the acts or the results of Israeli terrorism. Tell me all about the coverage by those organizations of Israel's recent carpet bombing of Gaza. Al Jazeera might cover it but the zionists who control the American media organizations, through intimidation, management, or ownership won't allow Al Jazeera to be carried by cable providers (except for three towns/cities where local activists prevailed) so Americans will never see what's happening unless there is a Jewish victim of "radical Muslim terrorists.? Nor will the msm dare to show anything that would contradict Israel's propaganda. It is amazing the lengths the talking heads on the various news and comment programs will go to avoid talking about Israel's aggression, its land thefts, and its subjugation and humiliation of Palestinian people in their own homeland.

Those are the facts of life, aren't they Rich Sanchez and Helen Thomas?

There is really do valid denial that our media is Israel-centric so why do Israel Firsters continue to insist otherwise?

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 11:40 AM | Report abuse

lazuras you are detached from reality. The msn coverage of the last entifada was anything but pro isreali. The coverage of the massacre at Jenin that never occurred is a prime example of that. The flotilla coverage is another example. distortion of the truth not showing the entire surveillance film is another example of slanted coverage at best. I do realize that some of the slanted coverage of our msn against Isreal over the past ten years was to make Bush look bad but never the less the coverage was what it was.

Posted by: eddiehaskall | February 10, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

I believe that Rubin believes that Israel is the 51st state,how this occured in secret,I'm sure she is certain of the details.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1020&bih=534&q=israel+51st+state&aq=f&aqi=g1g-v2&aql=&oq=

Posted by: rcaruth | February 10, 2011 11:56 AM | Report abuse

"In Herzliya, in Tel Aviv, in Jerusalem and the West Bank (more about that in the days and weeks ahead) the country builds and grows." ---J. Rubin

I have a great idea, Ms. Rubin. Why don't you write about the US instead of Israel? Maybe you can get a PAC to sponsor a US tour and you can get out and talk to Americans, attend American town council meetings, tour American neighborhoods, and visit American places of work.

What do you say?

Posted by: MsJS | February 10, 2011 12:12 PM | Report abuse

What is the total cost for the US taxpayers for Israelis to live well?
$3B per year in Military aid, $9B last year in trade since Israel exports more than imports from US under free trade agreement. Millions in tax deductions for charitable contribution that go to funded the building settlements, which would be illegal except for pressure from some in Congress, even though the last 6 US Presidents have publicly declare settlements illegal. These charities are under US laws since giving to foreign organizations are not deductible.

If US cut in half all foreign aid per year that would be enough to paid for the college tuition of every high school graduate last year to attend a state college. That could truly boost the US economy and tax base in a few years and give more American a similar live style to what many in Israel now enjoy.

Posted by: Bloodyscot | February 10, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Rather than Israel being America's 51st state, we are more likely considered to be Israel's seventh province.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 12:26 PM | Report abuse

"Now the United States is more akin to a flaky teenager -- self-absorbed and flighty."

Oh yes, looking out for the interests of the United States FIRST is considered self-absorbed and flighty? Disgusting.

Posted by: vza1 | February 10, 2011 12:49 PM | Report abuse

I offer herewith some shingobait. Lazarus, the bleeding hearts bleeding heart says:
"While the Palestinian victims of Israel's state terrorism live out in the open, cold, hungry, and malnourished, because Israel bombed them mercilessly, keeps them in the world's largest open air prison, and won't even let them have baby food, diapers, nor toilet paper, much less concrete mix so they can put a roof over their heads. The circumstances and appearances are remarkably similar to those old end-of-WWII in Europe films shown on the Military Channel almost daily, except the descendants of those victims are now the tormentors and jailers of these new victims."

Those poor arabs. They just can't catch a break can they? they live right next door to a prosperous society but they live in squalor themselves.

And their strategy for confronting that squalor?

(1) Blame the Jews
(2) Blame the Americans
(3) Blame the Jews
(4) Blame the Americans

I wonder how much better off they would be if they stopped killing each other, put down the rocks, stopped building unaimed rockets for killing their neighbors and got to work?

I just wonder. And I think just about any rational person (that excludes laz and shingo) would wonder the same thing.

Hamas rose to power via a series of "Arab election primaries". In this system, one party's operatives hurls the operatives of the other party from the roof a tall building, thus eliminating opposition.

Sorry, but it is just plain stupid to blame the "plight" of the so called palestinians on anybody but themselves. If they want prosperity, let them get to work. If they want a better relationship with Israel,let them put down their weapons, stop training their children for suicide and generally act as a good neighbor should.

The bottom line is that arab muslim countries wind up being third world toilets. Lebanon will be unliveable just a few decades after hezbollah wrests complete control. Nothing of value comes out of Syria and if Iran and SA didn't have oil they'd have NOTHING.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 10, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

Without doubt the most entertaining posts by Jennifer Rubin are those that concern Israel. Not only are the posts themselves informative, but the inanities that flow from the Israel/Jew bashers are beyond hilarious.

Posted by: gord2 | February 10, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing sez: "Sorry, but it is just plain stupid to blame the "plight" of the so called palestinians on anybody but themselves. If they want prosperity, let them get to work."

Kind of hard to accomplish anything when the policy of the government of the illegally occupying power is determined to destroy your ability to make a living and to ethnically cleanse you from the land "god gave the Jews." I wonder if Jennifer discussed that matter during her conference.

A few headlines taken at random that most likely never made it into the U.S. media. Makes one wonder about humanity:

- Israel Blows Up West Bank Mosques In Palestine.

- Israel blows up police HQ

- Israel blew up and set fire to the official Voice of Palestine radio station in the West Bank town of Ramallah yesterday

- Israel blew up Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi's car in Gaza City on Saturday

= Israeli security forces blew up a Palestinian four-storey apartment block near East Jerusalem on Monday

- Israel blows up 4th Century Christain Church!

- Israel blows up Palestinian fishing boat

- Israel Blows Up Suspects' Homes.

- Israel blows up Gaza buildings.

- Ambulances took to the streets after Israel bombed a cheese factory and other targets in the Palestinian homeland

- The Israeli army dynamited three empty apartment towers in the Gaza Strip early yesterday

- Israel shelled Gaza's biggest wastewater treatment plant in Sheikh Ajleen, south-east of Gaza city, which usually treats raw sewage from approximately 400,000 people.

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Laz baby, are you Axis Sally re incarnate?

What occupation are you talking about?

And why don't you have links to the "stories"? If they are so well hidden how is it that you know about them?

Frankly after then jenin lies and all the lies spread during the recent Israel/Lebanon war there is no reason to believe a single word uttered by anyone who supports the muslim thugs. And that's you pal.

Lying to us mere infidels is an acceptable practice in Islam. As I recall the term is Taqiyya.

So send along some links or withdraw the allegations. surely you can prove what you say, right?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 10, 2011 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Ok skippy. I suppose you don't see the irony of a zionist accusing anyone, repeat anyone, of lying.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Israel+blows+up&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

About 285,000 results (0.17 seconds)

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

Why is it after reading this weeks worth of Israel posts from Jennifer Rubin, all the insults directed at anyone outside the Likud camp, and today insults of the United States for not being even more of a puppet of the Likud regime, am I so much even less predisposed to want to do anything for them? Were her weeks worth of posts intended to be polarizing? Apparently that's what they are. I assume it was intentional.

Posted by: jiji1 | February 10, 2011 4:25 PM | Report abuse

How to tell when a liberal has nothing: I get called skippy. Just too funny.

I followed the link. funny how page one of the google response didn't include a single story from a news source with which a reasonable person would be familiar. Just a bunch of blog sites.

My personal favorite from laz's link is the headline about Hamas blowing up a gas pipeline. I guess you didn't look too carefully at what you offered, now did you?

I said LINKS TO THE STORIES. You got none. Just as I suspected. To reiterate, lying is an acceptable practice among muslims. apparently it is acceptable among their thoughtless lickspittle followers too.

Oh, and just so you know the type of people you support here's a link to an altogether too common story from Islam.
"The reports said Hena was raped by her 40-year-old relative Mahbub on Sunday. Next day, a fatwa was announced at a village arbitration that she must be given 100 lashes. She fell unconscious after nearly 80 lashes.

Fatally injured Hena was rushed to Naria health complex where she succumbed to her injuries.

Supreme Court lawyer Seema Zahur yesterday placed before the HC bench a press report on the incident on behalf of Bangladesh National Women Lawyers Association."

Unlike some, I can provide a link:
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=172669

Nice, huh. the guy rapes the girl, then gets a fatwa issued that basically calls for her death. 100 lashes for being raped. Sadly for the crowd, the weakling 14 year old girl could only handle 80. I guess she'll get the remaining 20 in the muslim afterlife, right?

What a terrific society springs up around islam, wouldn't you agree lazarus? Just wonderful. Sharia is just soooo perfect for our life and times.

Tell me, how many rape victims were whipped to death in Israel last year? How many of those were Israeli muslims?

One of the very best things about our war against islamic madmen is the fact that we have the opportunity to take a good hard look at what amounts to a dysfunctional culture. Is it any wonder that muslim countries can't compete in the modern world?

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 10, 2011 5:15 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 10:37 AM

OK Mubarak is stepping down. Now that the Saudis are involved, I have a great deal more confidence in the situation.

______________________


You know the right has completely lost it's grip when it places it's faith in the Saudis.

Posted by: Shingo1 | February 10, 2011 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 10, 2011 5:15 PM

“I said LINKS TO THE STORIES. You got none. Just as I suspected. To reiterate, lying is an acceptable practice among muslims. apparently it is acceptable among their thoughtless lickspittle followers too.”

Sure Skip, any luck finding those WMD's or links to Al Qaeda and Saddam?

"The reports said Hena was raped by her 40-year-old relative Mahbub on Sunday. Next day, a fatwa was announced at a village arbitration that she must be given 100 lashes. She fell unconscious after nearly 80 lashes.”

Yes disgusting isn't it? Almost as disgusting as the women in the US military station in Iraq, who dies of dehydration because they were so afraid to visit the latrines at night (for fear of being raped) that they deliberately refrained from drinking water before going to bed.
It's always amusing hearing a right wing extremist (most likely a misogynist) complain about the treatment of women in Muslim countries.
“Tell me, how many rape victims were whipped to death in Israel last year? How many of those were Israeli muslims?”
Tell us how many women Israel massacred in Gaza Skip, vs how many were massacred by Hamas in Israel?
“One of the very best things about our war against islamic madmen is the fact that we have the opportunity to take a good hard look at what amounts to a dysfunctional culture.”

her reason you enjoy it so much Skip is that it allows you to avoid having to look at how dysfunctional your own is.


Posted by: Shingo1 | February 10, 2011 5:30 PM | Report abuse

Unfortunately Lazuras is right on the money.

Israel did NTO respond to provocations, they did the provoking by breaking the 4 month ceasefire with Hamas. In fact, a Wikileaks cable has just surfaces that shows that Israel ended the ceasefire because Hamas were sticking to it too well and the longer the ceasefire was going, the more credibility and power Hamsa were obtaining.

The Israelis could indeed kill tens of thousands a day, but they cannot afford to be seen in the world's eyes as a murderous regime, so it massacres just enough to get away with their self defense narrative.

Posted by: Shingo1 | February 10, 2011 5:37 PM | Report abuse

How much do you get paid to write this drivel shingo?

You didn't provide any links either. If you've got proof, show it. In today's information age that is quite simple. Do it or withdraw the allegations.

As I stated earlier, taqiyya is an acceptable part of muslim life. Lying is not dishonorable to arabs and muslims. So I don't believe you shingo.

And I love the weak response to the story about the beating death of the bangladeshi girl. Just classic.

Yeah fatwas calling for 100 lashes for rape victims in America are common place,right?

Oh, and who can forget the honor killing in Buffalo? That upstanding representative of Islam was just found guilty of murder. Again, such a great culture springs up around islam.

Is America perfect? No. Still muslims keep moving here and therefore moving away from the sharia dominated third world toilets the were born into. What does that tell you shingo my man?

It takes a special kind of person to defend Islam these days.

Posted by: skipsailing28 | February 10, 2011 5:48 PM | Report abuse

skipsailing sez: "Just a bunch of blog sites."

You make my point Skippy. The major media doesn't dare publish honest, unbiased articles about Israel's cruelty and terrorism, nor about Israel's corruption of history, e.g., Egypt attacked Israel in 1967. To do do would get you into the same unemployment line as Rick Sanchez.

skipsailing also sez: “Tell me, how many rape victims were whipped to death in Israel last year? How many of those were Israeli muslims?”

Hopefully none. Begin, Shamir, and Sharon were accused of countenancing rape when they authorized massacres of the inhabitants of some Palestinian villages but Netanyahu hasn't been caught yet. But your haridem (sp) treat their women IAW the Talmud which allows child marriage, breeding, and mistreatment of women. Your government gives them free reign so we probably will never know.

There is one thing we know about Israel's treatment of Arab women. And to think, American taxpayers subsidize such wanton cruelty and the American media covers it up.

"According to the World Health Organization ten years ago, at least 69 women had been forced to undergo labor at Israeli checkpoints. These shocking statistics are under reported and it is estimated that many more have existed since these statistics were gathered, some ten years ago. The Commissions report in 2008 noted that 71 women had children at checkpoints in 2007, showing that the discrimination increased.

"According to statistics, 35 infants died as well as five of the mothers."
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/71-palestinian-women-forced-to-labor-at-checkpoints-israelis-deny-women-access-to-hospitals-clinics-konchok-rangdrols-blog/

Posted by: Lazarus40 | February 10, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

“...invite some Israelis ... they can see some of the economic hardships we endured all my life - hardships made worse by our stratospheric military budget.”

Prove this. You may think it’s logical, but that doesn’t make it actually true.


“They can go to the cemetery and see the grave markers of some of the kids I went to grade school with who died fighting wars in the Middle East.”

You’re taking it for granted that those kids died “for Israel.” That’s a calumny.


“... discuss ... that our entire lives shouldn't have to be consumed worrying about nothing but the affairs of a tiny speck on the map ...”

If your “entire life” has been consumed with “nothing but” this, I’m afraid that’s your own fault.


“... which we see on our evening news every day for our whole lives ...”

No we don’t. And if it seems that way to you, it only shows that you’re suffering from an obsession of some kind. I think I know what kind.


“... and which is costing us money that we could be using to pave roads or send our kids to school.”

Where I live the roads are paved and the kids go to school. Why not move?


“... tell them the tale of spending my entire life listening to somebody named Bush on TV railing about somebody named Hussein...”

Your entire life? So you’re... what? ... ten or eleven years old now? That at least sounds about right. But then how were your kindergarten classmates old enough to serve in the armed forces? Something doesn’t add up. Hmm.

Posted by: Jeroboam | February 10, 2011 6:05 PM | Report abuse

You really need to stop soiling yourself on this forum Skip. It's getting embarrassing to watch.

What allegation do you want me to prove?

That Israel broke the ceasefire?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians

Or the links and analysis of the memo, that shows that the ceasefire was holding in Gaza in the months leading up to the Israeli onslaught of Dec. 2008-- but that Israel was worried about Hamas political gains in Gaza and saw military action as a remedy?

MJ Rosenberg has just reported on it:
http://politicalcorrection.org/fpmatters/201102080004

So has Danmiel Lubabn:
http://www.lobelog.com/new-revelations-on-the-run-up-to-cast-lead/

And here is the original story of the memo:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileaks-files/egypt-wikileaks-cables/8309338/DEFENSE-MINISTER-BARAKS-DISCUSSIONS-IN-EGYPT-FOCUS-ON-SHALIT-TAHDIYA-ANTI-SMUGGLING-AND-IRAN.html

On what basis do you know that lying is not dishonorable to Arabs and Muslims? Do you want me to pull passages from the Torah, or declarations from rabbis to the same effect?

“And I love the weak response to the story about the beating death of the Bangladeshi girl. Just classic.”

What's so weak about the word “disgusting”? Mind you, I noticed you didn't even bother to address the rape in the armed forces (one third of all women being raped). Would you cal one in 3 women being raped to be common place? No they are not lashed, but they have no hope of protection or justice.

And this is within the most celebrated institution the United States.

“Oh, and who can forget the honor killing in Buffalo?”

Disgusting indeed. I hope the guy burns in hell. The fact that you only have evidence of one such event kinda debunks your claims about this being common place or that it is representative of a culture. After all, are the exploits of Bernie Maddoff, Baruch Goldstein or Jonathan Pollard representative of Judaism?

There are Muslims migrating to the US. Many no doubt, wanting to escape the bombs being dropped on them from US fighter planes or drones. There are plenty of people emigrating from America too. Does that prove they hate America?
Of course, if these Muslism are moving away from the Shariah and taqiyya dominated society, then that also exposes how ludicrous your theory is about taqiyya being part of Muslim and Arab culture. Why would they run away from something they bring with them?

You really haven't through this through have you Skip?

“It takes a special kind of person to defend Islam these days.”

It takes a disturbed one to defend Zionism.

Posted by: Shingo1 | February 10, 2011 6:13 PM | Report abuse

“Prove this. You may think it’s logical, but that doesn’t make it actually true.”

What is so hard to understand about the fact that 3 trillion (and counting) has been waisted in Iraq, and a trillion a year on defense is not coming at the expense of the public?

“You’re taking it for granted that those kids died “for Israel.” That’s a calumny.”

Not all of them, but we sent these troops to the ME for oil and Israel.

“No we don’t. And if it seems that way to you, it only shows that you’re suffering from an obsession of some kind. I think I know what kind.”

Your blindness is caused by a very similar obsession. We know what kind.

“Where I live the roads are paved and the kids go to school. Why not move?”

Why not pave the roads where he lives?

Posted by: Shingo1 | February 10, 2011 6:20 PM | Report abuse

(Pssst...Lazarus, Shingo...I'm not sure how you missed it. I assume it was just an oversight considering the lengthy list of acts of violence committed by Israel you have to choose from but you forgot all about the equally credible reports that Israelis are harvesting the organs of dead Palestinians. And here's the beauty part - because the charge concerns Israelis and not Jews you'll still be able to say that you're not anti-Semitic but anti-Zionist. How cool is that!)

Posted by: paco33 | February 10, 2011 6:30 PM | Report abuse

(Oh, here's the link to the story so it must be true: http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/1553-swedish-reporter-defends-israel-blood-libel...you're welcome)

Posted by: paco33 | February 10, 2011 6:31 PM | Report abuse

paco,
Does one wingnut accusation debunk all credible accusations? If that were the case, Glenn Beck's show has removed all credibility from every conservative commentator in existence.
If Lazarus and Shingo ignore stories like that, it is because they are not the slavering anti-semites you wish to portray them as. That just increases their credibility in my eyes.

Posted by: billyvw | February 11, 2011 6:42 AM | Report abuse

billyvw:
You ask "Does one wingnut accusation debunk all credible accusations?" Under normal circumstances that would be a fair question and the answer would be "of course not." But that is clearly not the case here. Why is an article written by a journalist repeating the unsubstantiated claims of Palestinians that Israeli soldiers are harvesting the organs of dead Palestinians any less credible than an unsubstantiated blog entry accusing Israelis of destroying a church? Why is the organ harvesting story any more wing-nutty than the stories listed by Lazarus, which are based solely on claims by Palestinians or their supporters or are headlines ("Israel blow up mosque") that fail to include any context or mitigating info (missiles had been fired from the mosque)?

Posted by: paco33 | February 11, 2011 9:45 AM | Report abuse

Post a Comment

We encourage users to analyze, comment on and even challenge washingtonpost.com's articles, blogs, reviews and multimedia features.

User reviews and comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions.




characters remaining

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2011 The Washington Post Company