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Posted at 9:42 AM ET, 02/ 9/2011

Obamacare support melting away

By Jennifer Rubin

Pretty much as expected by conservatives, Obamacare has remained unpopular with the public. It's under attack in the courts. And now, vulnerable Senate Democrats are running for the hills. ABC News reports:

"We're looking at everything humanly possible. I've always had a concern and a problem with the mandate, that we were forcing it, basically saying by the law of the land you have to buy the product," Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV, told ABC News today. "But on the other hand, I know that's been the linchpin. I'm looking for flexibility any way I can."

Manchin is one of the moderate Democrats trying to figure out how to repeal the individual mandate. While talks are still in the early stages, Manchin hopes the push will take shape sooner rather than later.

Joining him in these efforts could be a handful of other Democrats who are also up for reelection in 2012: Nebraska's Ben Nelson, Missouri's Claire McCaskill, and Montana's Jon Tester.

You can understand why liberals might be starting to panic. So earnest Obamacare supporters are rushing in. Ezra Klein offers his contribution:

Replacing the individual mandate wouldn't be particularly hard. All we need is another policy that does the same thing -- specifically, discourages free-riders who don't want to buy insurance until after they get sick and thus leave the rest of us paying for them.

Not only is the repeal of the individual mandate no big deal, it's actually better for the Dems! Ezra announces, "The danger, as I say at the end, is not that the law does get changed, but that it doesn't. That the GOP won't let it thrive and the Democrats won't let it die and so it just limps along." (I guess the "historic legislation" was badly crafted, after all.)

This is not one of the more effective spin-squad efforts. To begin with, Democrats are running from Obamacare Their willingness to push for a major revision, one vehemently opposed by the White House, of the "historic legislation" is not a helpful sign for the saleability of the plan in the 2012 election.

As for the politics, Ezra has missed a key stumbling block: House Republicans and more than 40 Senate Republicans will not vote for an individual mandate-lite, if you will. They want to repeal Obamacare outright or defund it. Remember, the Republicans are running and governing on repeal and replace. In other words, Obamacare can't be fixed in their eyes because the entire premise of the legislation and the cost it entails are unsustainable. Oh, and the president is opposed to it, too. In other words, virtually everyone save the nervous Senate Democrats is opposed to the idea of fiddling with the individual mandate.

Eventually the choice for red-state Democrats will be: Defend Obamacare as is or vote to repeal it. In the realm of electoral politics this is a "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition for the Republicans.

By Jennifer Rubin  | February 9, 2011; 9:42 AM ET
Categories:  Obamacare  
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Comments

Problem is the insurance companies like it because it guarantees them customers and keeps them out of an insurance industry death spiral. Drug companies, hospital chains and other providers like it because it guarantees everybody participates in the system. If repeal advocates can't get the money behind them, then they can't get a repeal.

Posted by: jiji1 | February 9, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Rubin misunderstands the political scene. There are certainly parts of USA where corporate propaganda is so successful that the electorate strongly opposes anything supported by President Obama. Democrats representing those regions must perforce act accordingly – at least in the short run.

The rest of the country increasing understands that the Affordable Health Care Act – which is very close to what GOP politicians, including Richard Nixon, once proposed – is, on the whole, exceedingly good for USA. ABC and Jennifer Rubin notwithstanding, the act will be exceedingly good ammo for Democrats in coming elections.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 11:01 AM | Report abuse

Here's the choice:
(1)Obamacare or some new version of it
(2)Expansion of Medicare for all

This will play itself out over the next decade or two
Make up your mind

Posted by: rcaruth | February 9, 2011 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Jennifer

Obama lied to O'Reilly last weekend - he said he didn't raise taxes.

Would you like me to list the Obama tax increases? I'll have to use 3 comments to be under the character limits


OBAMA LIED

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Another duplicitious column from Rubin. In fact, the most unpopular segments of "Obamacare" are being revoked and that is increasing support for the overall legislation. The most unpopular segment, mandatory coverage, was included at the insistence of the GOP (who still voted against it) and was for the sole benefit of the insurance industry. There are no perfect fixes, but universal care rather than mandatory private insurance is the most cost effective and widely supported means to reduce health care costs. Of course, the GOP will never stab their biggest contributors (the insurance industry) in the back by doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Posted by: fingersfly | February 9, 2011 11:13 AM | Report abuse

To be honest, Im not sure the right way to put this


http://twitter.com/#!/MayorRahmE


or @MayorRahmE


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:23 AM | Report abuse

The truth is only BIG insurance companies who have been promised enormous subsidies by Obama want it. Many smaller companies and even Met Life, have already pulled out of writing health insurance. Many analysts (those who work in the real world and have to justify their paycheck with a profit) have said this situation eventually leads to one choice, Federalized medicine, and anyone who had to wait in line at the Post Office should know that will be a significant blow to the standard Americans take for granted. We should be lowering barriers to entry, not raising them as Obamacare does.

Posted by: beck2448 | February 9, 2011 11:36 AM | Report abuse

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED


Over the weekend, Obama said he didn't raise taxes


Enclosed: PART ONE of Obama's lies, the EVIDENCE AGAINST OBAMA


Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following
1 Adult 2 Adults 3+ Adults
2014 1% AGI/$95 1% AGI/$190 1% AGI/$285
2015 2% AGI/$325 2% AGI/$650 2% AGI/$975
2016 + 2.5% AGI/$695 2.5% AGI/$1390 2.5% AGI/$2085


Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS)


Employer Mandate Tax(Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees.


If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer).


Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years
Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income


Capital Gains Dividends Other*
2010-2012 15% 15% 35%
2013+ (current law) 23.8% 43.4% 43.4%
2013+ (Obama budget) 23.8% 23.8% 43.4%

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations.


It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income.


It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:42 AM | Report abuse

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED


Over the weekend, Obama said he didn't raise taxes


Enclosed: PART TWO of Obama's lies, the EVIDENCE AGAINST OBAMA


Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family).

For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:
First $200,000
($250,000 Married)
Employer/Employee All Remaining Wages
Employer/Employee
Current Law 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed
Obamacare Tax Hike 1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed 1.45%/2.35%
3.8% self-employed

Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.


Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). .


There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:44 AM | Report abuse

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED

OBAMA LIED


Over the weekend, Obama said he didn't raise taxes

Enclosed: PART THREE of Obama's lies, the EVIDENCE AGAINST OBAMA


Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.

Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers

“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

Holy Cow, you folks really ARE in denial.

Let us be very clear. the majority of the country is against a 2900 pages bill that was passed in the middle of the night, completely against the transparency promise, that is soo invasive that it impacts our daily lives and gives the government unprecedented power.

People are against the increase if the size of government!! You can bury your head in the sand all you want, but when the citizens of the US are asked questions about political beliefs, and the questions are NOT associated with party, over 70% of the US is conservative to one degree or another.

You cannot say you have never heard that there is opposition to the bill, becuase currently 66% OF THE NATION thinks obamacare is bad for the nation. The OMB and the CBO say it will INCREASE healthcare costs and still be a tax liability!

Stop drinking the water and do your own research (and i dont mean on huffpo or the times, both dem shills). Start to remember your Economics courses. When government controls a commodity, it invaribly increases in cost, due to availability and inefficiency.

Jeez folks, use your brains. Read the news. Make up your own mind instead of being zombies. The Conservatives want to fix the ROOT CAUSE, which is cost. Legal liabilities, monopoly protection of insurance companies, regulatory costs, these are things that raise costs. Conservatives, the folks that Freed the slaves, started the environmental movements, started the Civil rights movements, drove to destruction communism and ended the cold war. These are the folks who treat you well. The liberals are like children that dont know when to stop. the take the Civil war, and force Jim Crow laws that perpetuate racism. They twist the civil rights movement into such rediculous level of political correctness we are on the borderline of losing free speech, they take the environmental movement started by Teddy Roosevelt, and turn it into an invasive nightmare that has killed employment in central california and multiple other places.

THIS is the group you are giving control of your very life and helth decisions to. Folks that havent demonstrated one wit of restraint of ability to govern wisely.

Use your head, its there for more than just holding a hat!

Posted by: cjwarnke | February 9, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

An egregiously unconstitutional "law", forced upon us by the same people who used to protest and equally egregious "law" (patriot act)... so each false "side" will scream at each other on camera, then fade into the back rooms smoking cigars and drinking Chivas...
As they say in the Beltway, grandest game in the world. That all the "principles" are now to be held legally in dishonor goes without saying.
Bread and circuses take them all.

Posted by: wannabersc | February 9, 2011 11:52 AM | Report abuse

This will only get worse. As hearings into the burgeoning waivers hit the news cycle, support will erode even further. It's increasingly clear that obama's cronies are getting the breaks, while the little guy once again will bear the burden of the bill. And then obama gets to rush in with a cape with more government "aid" for the devastated lower classes. Welcome to the era of big government, once again.

Bachman had a name for this, and it was Gangster Government. That is exactly what it is, and just as the mob used to call their extortion Protection, our socialists pretend to be humanitarians.

But look at the numbers. The nation is turning increasingly conservative, despite the machinations of the elite media, academia and political class.

Keep praying. Though she is close to it, America isn't lost quite yet.

Posted by: pbpublic | February 9, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Wannbersc and cuwarnke


Please don't forget that RECONCILIATION was abused by the Obama people


In addition, who knows what they did with the evidence in the Minnesota Courts to steal that Senate seat away.


AND don't forget they had to ILLEGITIMATELY change the law in Massachusetts to HOLD BACK THE ELECTION and allow a temporaty appointment.


The people wanted a "check" on Obama and the liberals.


THE WHOLE THING LOST ITS LEGITIMACY - OBAMA CHEATED TO GET THE VOTES.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:58 AM | Report abuse

Wannbersc and cuwarnke


Please don't forget that RECONCILIATION was abused by the Obama people


In addition, who knows what they did with the evidence in the Minnesota Courts to steal that Senate seat away.


AND don't forget they had to ILLEGITIMATELY change the law in Massachusetts to HOLD BACK THE ELECTION and allow a temporaty appointment.


The people wanted a "check" on Obama and the liberals.


THE WHOLE THING LOST ITS LEGITIMACY - OBAMA CHEATED TO GET THE VOTES.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 9, 2011 11:59 AM | Report abuse

Repeal is the only option. The poisonous bill is stuffed with items where the law is handed over to arbitrary and capricious decisions by "the Secretary" - who has already given "waivers" to 733 of her best union and corporate buddies, but leaves the ordinary unconnected citizen stuck with the "law".

That's not law, it's bribed dispensations. Remember Martin Luther! Who will nail 95 new theses to the White House door and start restoring the Democratic Party to responsibility and honor and the benefit of all Americans?

Posted by: InsufficientlySensitive | February 9, 2011 12:03 PM | Report abuse

The retreat is turning into a rout. Once they realize that the Republicans won't replace the unconstitutional mandate with a "mandate-light", they'll have no choice but to vote for repeal, or at leat to defund.

ObamaCare RIP.

Posted by: eoniii | February 9, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

Name a government agency that runs efficiently. When you interact with a government "service" do you consider the agents to be efficient, hard working and respectful of you? The answer is a resounding NO. So why would any sane person support federally administered healthcare?

Destroy the legislation, eject it's congressional supporters. This was an attempt to create a giant job-works program at your expense. It was also an attempt to steal your hard earned money.

Eject the culprits or expect more of the same.

Posted by: bryanabbott | February 9, 2011 12:08 PM | Report abuse

Every time socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats try to force America's quasi-free enterprise system to deliver their national socialism to benefit fellow socialists and communists at taxpayer/investor expense we have financial disaster. Democrats' affirmative action (standardless) lending program by forcing banks and by misusing FNMA to buy, repackage(hide) and sell affirmative action loans resulted in financial disaster. Affirmative Action energy tax redistribution, i.e., the global cooling/warming/climate change wealth redistribution scam, operates the same way by applying force on and colluding with energy companies and useless Enron-type traders. Affirmative action healthcare/insurance is resulting in financial disaster with premiums already doubling before full implementation to pay in advance to cover everyone for everything. To get insurance companies to go along with ObamaCare Democrats added an unconstitutional mandate to buy insurance in order to force the private payment (instead of tax collection) of hundreds of billions to insurance companies to compensate them for the mandated coverage of everyone for everything. Since insurance companies require this, they required Obamacare to go without a severability clause. Hitler and FDR would be proud of this Third Way brand of socialism that operates by force on and collusion with businesses to deliver national socialist goals that crony capitalist political players can skim. Luckily, funeral services will be held for Obamacare in the Supreme Court.

Posted by: SharpShtik | February 9, 2011 12:16 PM | Report abuse

The Obama Care law is very poorly crafted. I used to work for a Senator way back when, and compared to what we did then Obama Care is thin.

There is no severability clause. What where they thinking?

The law itself has no jurisdiction since all health insurance is state-based and cannot cross state lines, by law, so there is no interstate commerce justification proposed by the legislators (GOP actually wanted to add allowing purchase of health insurance across state lines).

The "individual mandate" is un-constitutional because it is not a tax, excise tax or fee. The taxpayer pays to mandate to a private company not the state or federal treasury. So Congress has no power to legislate it as is.

The HHS waivers are un-constitutional under the equal protection clause, and the fact that no state or federal constitution allows for the executive branch to dispense with a law. Only the legislative branch can "suspend", completely repeal, or amend a law. Only the Judicial branch can kill it outright.

So yeah, the entire thing is a mess and needs to be redone from scratch. We will have to wait for another Democrat super-majority for that. They missed their chance trying to rush through sup-par legislation.

Posted by: katorga | February 9, 2011 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Does anyone else find it weird that the so-called conservatives in this country are demanding tat we repeal this bill, and instead of making everyone purchase their own insurance and be responsible for themselves, they are demanding that we go back to the system that lets deadbeats go to any hospital, get treated for free, and walk out handing the bill to the taxpayers.

My god what has happened to the conservative movement in this country

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:22 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 11:01 AM |

Hilarious. And extremely encouraging for conservatives.

Please keep up the snotty elitist sneer at those dumb voters clinging to their opposition to the dear Gramscian socialist leader.

Coming to a movie theater near you in 2012 -- THE SHELLACKING 2: REVENGE OF THE BITTERCLINGERS

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Remember when conservatives used to WANT to cut Medicare? Now they refuse to allow any reduction in the largest welfare program we have. WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE?

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:27 PM | Report abuse

The fundamental problem with the lefties is that they think health care is a "right". By doing so, because the delivery of health care requires the labor of health care workers, they necessarily are endorsing slavery. So, until this odious concept is put to rest, this nonsense is going to be a recurring political chancre.

Posted by: fmcdermott1 | February 9, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

You rammed it down our throats after being warned and now we are going to shove it up your donkey. 2012 you are dead meat, you will be crushed in the election turmoil and thrown out disgraced and alone. It is the very least you deserve.

Posted by: LoneWolf1 | February 9, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Remember when the quasi-Socialist Democrats used to WANT to increase TAXES.

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE?

Opps, sorry my apologies, they still do.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Note to people: When you compare FDR to Hitler or call Obama a Communist (when he is the most pro-free market Democrat we've ever had in the office). You sound so ridiculous that even those of us on your side stop reading an refuse to consider your arguments. I mean, if you really are that dim, why waste time....

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:33 PM | Report abuse

Remember when the quasi-Socialist Democrats used think opposition AND dissent against the RULING REGIME was the HIGHEST FORM OF PATRIOTISM?

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE?

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:34 PM | Report abuse

espresso wrote:
Remember when the quasi-Socialist Democrats used to WANT to increase TAXES.

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU PEOPLE?

Opps, sorry my apologies, they still do.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

sir, this is the third straight year that our taxes are LOWER under Obama than they were under Bush. Take your head out of the hole and wake up to reality. The facts are not on your side

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Liberals in denial. 2012 can't get here fast enough. Dems lose the Senate, Obama is voted out of office.

Posted by: johnhiggins1990 | February 9, 2011 12:36 PM | Report abuse

OmeriKa is not a good or safe place for humans, animals or plants.

http://911essentials.com

Posted by: bee3 | February 9, 2011 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Note to people: When you compare TEA PARTY ACTIVISTS to NAZIS you sound so ridiculous, blah blah to the rest of maurban's tedious whine.

Note to maurban. STOP THE UNCIVIL TONE, you are creating an atmosphere that could lead to the assassination of conservatives.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:38 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:35 PM | Report abuse

Sir, stop the mendacity and straight lies.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

Jennifer,

You're conflating the individual mandate with the entire healthcare reform. While it is a key part to a MARKET based way to cover all American citizens, it is not the only way to do it.

Replacing the mandate with penalties, or other suggestions don't threaten the ACA, they would help legitimize it. How, because all legislation and established government programs are regularly refined, and adjusted. By starting to refine and adjust the legislation it will move from a concept to part of the established law of the land, which makes it much harder to repeal.

Posted by: ChicagoIndependant | February 9, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

The fundamental problem with the right is that their only governing philosophy is to oppose what the other side is doing. So when the other side adopts their ideas, as they did when the Dems used the Heritage Foundation's concept of an individual mandate, they can only begin to argue against everything they have been claiming for the last few decades.
Since 1980, the Republican Party has wanted to cut entitlements. When President Obama proposed cutting Medicare by $500 Billion, and also making people be responsible for themselves and purchase their own insurance (instead of being a deadbeat and making the government pay for you), they did a complete 180 and began arguing AGAINST cutting the Medicare welfare program and AGAINST making people be financially responsible for their own health care

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

"Name a government agency that runs efficiently. When you interact with a government "service" do you consider the agents to be efficient, hard working and respectful of you? The answer is a resounding NO. So why would any sane person support federally administered healthcare?"
-----------------
I get my medical care from the VA, which for all its faults is better than the private doctors here in Florida. The people there are all efficient, hard working and respectful. My father-in-law is another VA booster. He's in his 80s and has (he claims, but it's hyperbole) tried every one of the add-on plans to Medicare. But he always ends up back at the VA.

What we need, instead of RomneyCare, is a serious federally-run clinic and hospital system like the VA, but for everyone. If you don't like it, cool. Take your voucher (like the ones some school districts give if you choose a private school for your Darlings) and buy private health insurance in what ought to be a free market, regulated only against fraud (i.e. Republicans).

How 'bout it, lickies and tea peas? You up for something like this? Or are you getting paid so much by today's pain profiteers that it's beyond the pale for you?

Posted by: roblimo | February 9, 2011 12:40 PM | Report abuse

mauraban -- sir, please read more carefully.

You will note that I said quasi-Socialist Democrats WANT to RAISE Taxes.

That is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Maybe you need to read more articles in the Post besides one of the few conservatives.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:43 PM | Report abuse

Obamacare = Tyranny

Posted by: sudmuf | February 9, 2011 12:44 PM | Report abuse

espresso wrote:
Sir, stop the mendacity and straight lies.
++++++++++++++++++++

I'm assuming you didn't address my point because you either 1) realize that you are wrong or 2) are so uninformed as to not know if you are right or wrong.

This is a fact: for the last three years taxes have been lower under Obama than they were under Bush. If you can't accept a simple FACT and face REALITY what good are you. You call me a liar for stating a proven fact? What is wrong with you

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

@fmcdermott1

Your post is very perceptive. I would like to add something I've seen written lately. The Democrats keep pushing us into a system where I have absolutely no control over my own labor but I have an intrinsic right to YOUR labor. I really don't think that this situation is what Jesus had in mind.

Posted by: metanis | February 9, 2011 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Lets get down to the easily ascertainable facts. The cost of medical care has gone through the roof. Why has this happened? One reason, for damn sure is all the illegal immigrants running to the emergency room for every sniffle. How many thousands of girls have slipped across the border to have a child in one or our hospitals free of charge? Mexicans for the most part do not share my view that paying for medical care is the right thing to do. When Mexicans don't pay then that cost is passed on to someone that can. Insurance companies also drive up costs because they must defray all of their overhead expenses. Add to that the mountain of paperwork they must do for reimbursement. Bottom line. Everyone but the one who pays the bills is making money from a system that is rife with corruption and managed by people spending other people's money. I guarantee damn tee you if medical care was on a cash basis without the rest of this BS the costs would go down dramatically overnight. Insurance is a racket, the healthcare industry is a racket and the government involvement is a racket. As long as people view healthcare as a freebie they will continue to abuse the system. I don't give a rat's ass how poor someone is, it should still cost them something for medical care. Otherwise they have no incentive to not run to the emergency room for every conceivable reason.

Posted by: re-finder | February 9, 2011 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, they WANT to raise taxes, but when they had an outright majority they instead decided to LOWER them. genius

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:48 PM | Report abuse

maurban"This is a fact: for the last three years taxes have been lower under Obama than they were under Bush."

Obama was inaugurated in Jan 2009. TWO YEARS and one month ago.

So much for your facts. A common fault in liberals.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, they WANT to raise taxes, but when they had an outright majority they instead decided to LOWER them. genius
Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:

Hey genius, voting to EXTEND AN EXISTING TAX RATE is NOT LOWERING ANYTHING.

Get that, GENIUS who thiks the regime had been in power THREE YEARS.

Posted by: espresso | February 9, 2011 12:52 PM | Report abuse

RE: "Here's the choice:
(1)Obamacare or some new version of it
(2)Expansion of Medicare for all"

First it must be stated that every American is already covered by medicare - it's a plan they enroll you in, and you fund it for 50 years before you are eligible for benefits, then they tell you its bankrupt when you actually try to use it 50 years later.

THIS IS HOW ALL GOVERNMENT "PLANS" WORK.

In other words only government can peddle these fraudulent plans; real insurance company executives would go to prison for doing this.


OK clap your hands if you love "government planers"

Posted by: brucefrykman1 | February 9, 2011 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Here's an idea: People that don't buy insurance and can't pay for medical care simply don't get it. Maybe hospitals could team up with banks and provide emergency loans or something.

But the crux of the problem is thus: People getting something they don't pay for. In what universe is this logical?

Posted by: TheMSMControlsUs | February 9, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

re-finder wrote:
Insurance is a racket, the healthcare industry is a racket and the government involvement is a racket. As long as people view healthcare as a freebie they will continue to abuse the system. I don't give a rat's ass how poor someone is, it should still cost them something for medical care. Otherwise they have no incentive to not run to the emergency room for every conceivable reason.

++++++++++++++++++++

I agree for the most part, that's why I am so puzzled that the GOP is demanding we go back to the status quo and keep it that way

Although I will disagree with one thing you said: Why has the cost of health gone through the roof? Well, up until the early 90's insurance companies had to be non-profits. Since they changed that they have been basically raising premiums way more than costs to increase their profit (which is the point of a corporation....to charge the most possible for the least level of service)
If they changed this one simple rule the costs would be halved. The insurance companies like to say that 99 cents out of every dollar goes toward providing care. That is bs, they are including the money they pay the executives and the dividends they pay to shareholders. Truth is most insurance companies have operating margins of close to 40%. So basically 40 cents out of every dollar paid to Aetna gets paid to Aetna shareholders and the executives....

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:55 PM | Report abuse

Who says Tester is a moderate??? He's voted for every big government, leftist wetdream that's come up for a vote!

His Obamacare vote was a slap in the face to Montana citizens...he tried to get a big federal land grab bill through...etc. etc.

Posted by: deeprock7 | February 9, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

espresso, they also LOWERED actual taxes for MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS. Deal with it. IT is the truth.

You live in an alternate reality

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 12:56 PM | Report abuse

fiscal year 2009, fiscal year 2010, fiscal year 2011....

hmmmmm, appears to be three years

Posted by: maurban | February 9, 2011 1:01 PM | Report abuse

Repeal lost in Congress; soon it will lose in the Courts. Then it's checkmate. Smaller, weaker conservative efforts won't get far. Health care reform is the law of the land, and millions of Americans will benefit, now and in the future.

Posted by: dudh | February 9, 2011 1:02 PM | Report abuse

I just love it when Jennifer calls Ezra Klein part of the "spin squad." That's hilarious. He must be spitting mad that the Post actually hired somebody with the cujones to call him out.

Posted by: WashingtonDame | February 9, 2011 1:03 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure if it's amusing or alarming that people feel compelled to write about Ezra Klein. Ezra Klein, if he were air-dropped into any mid-size American city, could not get a job as a police reporter. Somehow he has opinions on issues of constitutional law and any other thing people are talking about on television in WashDC -- and we're supposed to care.

I think it's interesting that Senate democrats are getting happy feet, but Klein doesn't even know what "insurance*" is, has no apparent understanding of the constitution or its drafting. Why do we need to care what he says, other than the fact that he got hired by the Post?

*Anyone who doesn't understand the difference between insurance (a contract against risk) and pre-paid medical care (his usage in the quote, above), as Klein has demonstrated he does not, needs to spend a year or two in community college before opining further.

Posted by: IowaHawkeye | February 9, 2011 1:07 PM | Report abuse

Reading Rubin's comment page is hilarious. Every time I get this vivid image of her supporters that makes me chuckle. They are old white people yelling, purple-faced, eyes bulging, and crapping their pants. Its funny because they have no idea why they are yelling but yell louder and louder until they poop themselves. Thanks for the yucks Rubin.

Posted by: rgray | February 9, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abuse

The point is that both Democrats and Republicans agree that it is an incredibly crappy bill. Well, except maybe for the die hard Obama fanatics whose numbers are getting cut by half every day.

It is worth remembering how Democrats shoved this bill down American people throats. "Pass first, read second." "Who is going to read 1000s of pages anyway?". Remember that?

Serves Democrats well for sheepishly following the corrupt idiots Pelosi, Reid and Obama

Posted by: pihto999 | February 9, 2011 1:12 PM | Report abuse

I'm geting tired of reading the claptrap about the greedy insurance companies. The question that must be asked, and answered , is - " Does Congress have the Constitutional Authority to impose such a law?" It would appear that the judge in Florida has found that is does not.

Posted by: cluelessinky | February 9, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Reading Rubin's comment page is hilarious. Every time I get this vivid image of her supporters that makes me chuckle. They are old white people yelling, purple-faced, eyes bulging, and crapping their pants. Its funny because they have no idea why they are yelling but yell louder and louder until they poop themselves. Thanks for the yucks Rubin.

Posted by: rgray | February 9, 2011 1:09 PM | Report abus
-------

For some unknown reason your vivid image looks is a militant homosexual from the Fidel Castro administration. Not sure about the color of your face or hair this day of the week though

Posted by: pihto999 | February 9, 2011 1:15 PM | Report abuse

First, Wapo should make the commentary section run the newest comments first, then roll all commentary back so that new comments mean something.

A huge component to rising medical costs (which motivates Obamacare insanity in the first place), is the plundering of our medical system by lawyers like the multi-millionaire John Edwards. Edwards got his many millions by destroying medical practices, hospitals and individual doctors all across the South.

A few got rich, but the many lost medical care and that which remains costs more due to massive legal costs These cost affect every part of US medicine: Medical instrument builders/medical R&D/hospitals/Clinics/Doctor Groups/individual doctors/et al.

Trial lawyers are the plundering virus that infects US healthcare.

Posted by: Miguel3 | February 9, 2011 1:17 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed...no maybe not...that so many liberals are pretending that the individual mandate is anything other than a ruse: The fine for not having insurance will be less than the premiums so that everyone will go for welfare health care. The middle class will shrink as people, seeing the benefit of going on the dole, stop working or moving up the income ladder intentionally. This has been the plan since LBJ, but Obama has put the pedal to the metal.

Right now in Pennsylvania, you can make the equivalent of $50,000 a year on welfare (including all the healthcare you and your many kids can consume and &750 a month SSI for each child and the list goes on...) if you work the system well. For those of you in DC and NYC, that's like $100,000 a year. This is what Obama wants: a massive poor class unable to support themselves without socialist programs and an ultra-rich ruling class that can afford the taxes because their money has already been made (like the UK).

Then we have another Social Security, Medicare, heck you name it...EVERY entitlement program is over budget and provides lousy benefits. Socialized medicine is, overall, much worse healthcare in EVERY country where it exists, but socialist countries have many times the percentage of poor helpless people. I want out of Social Security. How many of you would pay %15 of your income for life into a "retrirement" that will pay you about $1,000 a month starting at age 67 and if you die the giant insurance company, I mean government, keeps all of your money? Many of us are putting 5-10% into 401k programs and will actually get more out and have ownership of the money. But we work for the evil employers Obama hates so much...

Posted by: ObamaElDiablo | February 9, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

roblimo wrote:
*********************************
I get my medical care from the VA, which for all its faults is better than the private doctors here in Florida. The people there are all efficient, hard working and respectful. My father-in-law is another VA booster. He's in his 80s and has (he claims, but it's hyperbole) tried every one of the add-on plans to Medicare. But he always ends up back at the VA.

What we need, instead of RomneyCare, is a serious federally-run clinic and hospital system like the VA, but for everyone. If you don't like it, cool. Take your voucher (like the ones some school districts give if you choose a private school for your Darlings) and buy private health insurance in what ought to be a free market, regulated only against fraud (i.e. Republicans).
*********************************

Like you, I get some of my medical care through the VA. Unlike you, I don't want ANY program modeled after them. Dealing with them for the past 10 years for various things has been nothing but a headache, as most that I have dealth with are rude, clueless, uncaring, and didn't give a rat's patootie about my needs.

When I made a simple request for a copy of one single medical record (photo of my eyes taken in basic training), I received not one but TWO thick packages from the VA, each containing parts of my medical records (there were numerous duplicated records as well). There was no order to the records (dates all jumbled, like someone got confused and thought they were playing cards...). I never did get a satisfactory photo copy and after several years of trying, they finally wore me down and I quit asking.

During one memorable call, I was greeted by a pleasant "What?" when I called the Tampa VA center. I thought I had called a wrong number until the lady told me she was in fact the VA rep that I would have the pleasure of dealing with for my issue. Sigh...

So, how about suggesting another efficiently run federal agency to model this mess after, but don't choose the VA.

Posted by: spongebob_sps | February 9, 2011 1:20 PM | Report abuse

How can Dems voting for Obamacare be a lose proposition? Weren't we told by the Dem leadership that the American people would be worshiping them for decades for their great achievement and grant of health insurance to the American people? Didn't Obama tell his followers that they would win? Didn't Princess Nancy and Sir Hairy of Reid tell us once we read the bill we would be giddy with delight?

Come'on. Dems should be loud and proud they voted for Obamacare. There should be 60 foot banners of each Dem that voted for it hanging from DC buildings so everyone will know exactly who to credit. Where their pride of accomplishment?

Posted by: pnkearns | February 9, 2011 1:22 PM | Report abuse

First, this is not 0bammacare this is HillaryCare repackaged with 0bammy just being the courier.
Second, it must be repealed, thrown out, burnt. Aside form being unconstitutional it has too much non-medical related pork, rules and bad laws included in it.
If you really want to reduce healthcare costs then you start with tort reform and nothing else, but, for every liability insurance dollar that tort reform saves physicians those physicians must reduce their income accordingly.

Posted by: Mary12345 | February 9, 2011 1:24 PM | Report abuse

Who’s Manchin trying to fool he just voted to not repeal Obamacare. He took aim at the people who voted him in.
Enjoy your 6 years Manchin your not fooling anyone now you voted no to repeal just like McCaskill.

Please Check out song called teapartiers I can’t hear you at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJfboOindCo

Here’s a verse

When he lost his commie czar it must have knocked off his sox
theirs actually someone reporting news but its only Fox
he still has another czar Chavez loving lloyd
he’s busy trying to make free speech null and void

Corpsemen in the 57 states as your dying
Jeff Jones will be laughing so much he’ll be crying
now you know why they had you read that death book
don’t you wish you had money like Rangle the crook
you invested 50 years to safe guard your health care
Nancy gives it to illegals and thinks that its fare

Posted by: JoeAstroturf | February 9, 2011 1:29 PM | Report abuse

I am increasingly amazed as some of the comments posted here, e.g. a writer who STILL claims obamacare is popular. after insulting those jurisdictions where it is manifestly unpopular, this writer claims:

"The rest of the country increasing understands that the Affordable Health Care Act...is, on the whole, exceedingly good for USA. ABC and Jennifer Rubin notwithstanding, the act will be exceedingly good ammo for Democrats in coming elections."

If this is true, then why does support for repeal average about 58% at Rasmussen?

Well, perhaps this writer doesn't trust Rasmussen, another part of the evil "corporate world" I suppose. Well then, does he trust democratic candidates for congress?
if THEY thought "obamacare will be good ammo" presumably they would have run ads in 2010 boasting of this "historic achievement", but did they? No. by and large they did not.

Senator Feingold did run such an ad, before he lost.

In the real world, if a policy change is popular, candidates boast of their support, while opponents tend keep quiet about their opposition. Clearly the sincere judgment of candidates, both republican and democratic, in 2010, as shown by their behavior, was that Obamacare is unusually unpopular.

But of course, what do THEY know about popularity compared to the liberals who know everything?

Posted by: mikem23 | February 9, 2011 1:30 PM | Report abuse

Regardless, the SCotUS is more than likely to recognize the unconstitutionality of ObbummerCare and send it down in flames.

Posted by: illogicbuster | February 9, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Good article with the unvarnished truth. Obamacare is a train wreck that will greatly accelerate the bankrupting of the United States. The American people have rejected this monstrosity at the polls. End it, don't mend it

Posted by: PureFantasy | February 9, 2011 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Maurban presents the dishonest sales pitch of socialists and communists d/b/a Democrats by dishonestly arguing the "goal" of Obamacare is "making everyone purchase their own insurance and be responsible for themselves [to avoid] let[ting] deadbeats ... get treated for free [on] taxpayers."

The truth is that Obamacare gives a new entitlement of free/subsidized insurance to tens of millions of Democrat supporters and covers them for everything. This is the sole reason that trillions have to be force-fed into the insurance system. Instead of trillions in tax hikes, to hide the true cost of Obamacare, insurance companies are doubling/tripling premiums on existing policies and getting trillions more from healthy people mandated to buy insurance they either don't want or need to cover the cost of the new entitlement to freeloading Democrats. Democrats are anti-American terrorists from within posing the no 1 threat to Americans.

Posted by: SharpShtik | February 9, 2011 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Democrat Maurban took a psych 101 class and thinks he-she-it will sway opinion by posing as a conservative that labels actual moderates and conservatives dimwits and by concluding "Obama ... is the most pro-free market Democrat we've ever had." Maurban, your childish technique works well with children and those with sub-70 IQs (the Democrat base), but doesn't work on American patriots loyal to the USA as it is constituted.

Posted by: SharpShtik | February 9, 2011 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Fingerfly wrote Of course, the GOP will never stab their biggest contributors (the insurance industry) in the back by doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Herein lies the main problem with the Compost comment section.
People like you can make a completely erroneous statement and not back it up with one iota of data to back up their allegations.
You, sir or madam, need to actually look at which party has received a huge slice of the healthcare, insurance and public sector contributions pie. I can tell you right now. It wasn't the Repugnanticans. Who do you think wrote this legislation? It wasn't the Congress. It wasn't the White House. And it's very hard to find because of the impressive transparency promised by President Potato Head, is not there.

Posted by: nosuchluck | February 9, 2011 2:16 PM | Report abuse

I have but two questions for those who want this burden on the backs of your grandchildrens' children. 1) call and ask your PUBLIC SERVANT in DC if he or she has READ this bill (not their aides), and have you read it(I bet not). 2) The Federal gov't has shown you how well they run anything outside of what is written in THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATED. I am willing to bet as well that you have not read it neither. Because if you have you, may not be so liberal.
Look at medicare you idiot, bankrupt. Massachusetts and Hawaii both have tried at the state level and it FAILED.. Inlue of spending the day crying about how noone cares for me, spend the day and read the Obamacare bill, The Constitution of The United States and do some fact checking instead blindly believing your ELECTED PUBLIC SERVANT, media and internet.
ps YOU CAN NOT PLEASE 100% of the people all time. However we are a REPUBLIC not a DEMOCRACY. The majority of this country is COVERED by insurance. It is less than 7% percent who are not, so we are have to SUFFER for 7%, sorry.(7% of 328 million is ?,not even the population of Newyork City) I been there, I paid the medical bills over years. LIFE IS NOT FAIR get over it.
You dont like your job, get educated (edgeumakated and ax someone for help) find another, dont like how things are here, then MOVE OUT PLEASE.
Conservative second generation American voting taxpayer and you??
Less government,less taxes, less of you and them in MY LIFE. you are not my keeper.

Posted by: oneshotonly | February 9, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Cjwarnke, ObamaElDiablo, and SharpShtik,
all good comments!

Maurban, what are you smoking? First off, Obama is NOT responsible for FY2009. That was all Bush as he was responsible for the Fiscal Year 2009 budget.

Second, where do you get your facts? The Huffington Post?? Your facts are so skewed that they make no sense. Broaden your mind and get your news from sources other than HuffPo, Whitehouse.gov, Washington Post, or New York Times. All of those sources only report the Quasi-Socialist-Liberal point of view. Your brain has been cleansed by these people. When

Maurban, when I read your comments I can't help but picture John Candy in that movie "Volunteers" he was in with Tom Hanks back in the 80's. If you've seen it you'll know what I'm talking about. He's captured by communists and is full of bravado that they'll never change him. Cut to the next scene and he's wearing a communist uniform and shouting out communist virtues... Hilarious!! Mauban, that's you my friend, you've been brainwashed by the left and by the sound of your posts all is lost with you and your skewed way of thinking.

Posted by: Miguelito1965 | February 9, 2011 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey fingersfly, you wrote, " There are no perfect fixes, but universal care rather than mandatory private insurance is the most cost effective and widely supported means to reduce health care costs. "

Government run universal care is more cost effective and more widely supported than traditional private insurance? Are you out of your fraking mind? Seriously, you should get out of your neo-fascist left wing neighborhood once in a while and visit the 'real' world!

Please, this should be worth a laugh, explain to us how a gov't run program is more cost effective than a privately run one? Can you provide an example? Say the postal service? Yes, I am sure they are much more cost effective than FedEx or UPS. Well then, how about education. Surely the public schools are much more cost effective than say Catholic schools? LMAO. Tell you what - take you anti-American anti-Constituion treason and hit the fraking road, you dbag. Traitors like you have over stayed your welcome. And those of us who have take an oath to protect THE CONSTITUTION against domestic enemies are about ready to put you on the next boat out. Or you can do like your fellow traitors during the Revolution and flee for Canada. Either way your seditios, neofascist kind isn't welcome in the land of the free any more. So hit the road Jack @ss!

Posted by: McTex | February 9, 2011 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Obama LIE? How 'bout when he claimed the Chamber of Commerce was using "foreign money" against him? Turns out the TRUTH is the only foreign money involved was going to UNIONS which SUPPORTED him. Ever hear a retraction from this "the truth is whatever we say" set? Now we note one of those big unions, the SEIU, gets EXEMPTED from the Obama Healthtax after they gave him MILLIONS. Why would those liberal lovers want an EXEMPTION if this deal is SO GOOD?
Remember when Axlegrease was asked if he had any PROOF of "foreign contributions" to the Chamber of Commerce used against Obama, he replied "Do YOU have any proof they are not?" In some circles, a wise... remark like that would get you a punch in the mouth. Where does the Chamber of Commerce go to get its reputation back?

Posted by: DickTuck | February 9, 2011 2:29 PM | Report abuse

If the courts are ruling that me being forced to buy this "something" is unconstitutional, then why must I be forced to buy auto insurance? - because "the other guy might hit me" - like, er, I might break a leg or get cancer?

Posted by: kendi | February 9, 2011 2:40 PM | Report abuse

Nothing works like corporate propaganda. And nothing proves that corporate propaganda is alive and well like the views of American's that are flatly contrary to their own interests.

Why do you suppose corporate America spent hundreds of millions of dollars opposing the Affordable Health Care Act? Do you think that money was spent out of concern for the personal welfare of gullible tea baggers? Do you think . . . . oh, nevermind.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 2:48 PM | Report abuse

Maurban (what was Taliban taken?),

You wrotee, "sir, this is the third straight year that our taxes are LOWER under Obama than they were under Bush. Take your head out of the hole and wake up to reality. The facts are not on your side"

So Obama raised taxes in his Obamacare, he raised them in his failed Cap and Trade, he increased regulations by 3000% and he tried to raise taxes on those who already pay the greatest % of taxes, until he lost the House by historic numbers. Now the taxes in the country may be low right now, but that has nothing to do with Obamantion. It has to do with Bush and legislation passed by Republican Congresses.

Of course you know this but, like all good neo-fascist liberals, you prefer to spend your time spinning lies. Because lies are all your side has left. Furthermore, you know that once the tax increases kick in, if Obamacare were allowed to become the law of the land (which it won't, thank God) in 2014, that Obamacare will be responsible for some of the greatest tax increases this nation has ever seen.

If anyone needs to get their head out of their @ss, it's you. Actually you should get it out of Pelosi's bum whole, dbag!

Posted by: McTex | February 9, 2011 2:50 PM | Report abuse

Obama: If his lips be flyin'...he be lyin'.

Joe Wilson for President.

Posted by: rdondero123 | February 9, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

RE: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 11:01 AM

Why is it when the majority of Americans favor a viewpoint not in line with the liberal left, they attribute it to some malevolent propaganda or brainwashing from some special or corporate interest?

The fact that most Americans support our 2nd Amdmt Rights must be because of the so-called gun lobby, and not popular sentiment regarding a most cherished Constitutional right.

Similarly, the opposition to Obamacare must be because of "corporate propaganda" and not the fact that most Americans never have, and don't, support socialism and socialist programs like Obamacare.

Posted by: USAvetpatriot | February 9, 2011 2:55 PM | Report abuse

J_B_A wrote, "Why do you suppose corporate America spent hundreds of millions of dollars opposing the Affordable Health Care Act? Do you think that money was spent out of concern for the personal welfare of gullible tea baggers? Do you think . . . . oh, nevermind. "

Something that always cracks me up about dbag neo-fascist liberals like you is your "understanding" of what a corporation is. Small-minded people are easily led by propaganda and leftist propaganda has led people like you to believing that a corporation is something that lives, breathes and exists apart from human motives and interests. In truth, a corporation is nothing more than a coalition of like-minded individuals. Funny, neo-fascists like you love unions but hate it when individuals unite.

Now try and follow, I know you're pretty daft, but do you think it possible that the individuals who run their collectives actually believe (gasp) that having the gov't run health care would be bad for their families, their country, their national economy, their own pocketbooks, their posterity and their own self interests?

And you have the audacity of accusing others of being gullible?

Posted by: McTex | February 9, 2011 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: kendi
"If the courts are ruling that me being forced to buy this "something" is unconstitutional, then why must I be forced to buy auto insurance? - because "the other guy might hit me" - like, er, I might break a leg or get cancer?"
*****************

No one forces anyone to buy auto insurance. However, if you want to operate a motor vehicle, which is not a constitutional right, then you must follow the rules and regulations established by the state for operating said vehicle.

Life and liberty are constitutional rights and, thus, the gov't can't force you to purchase some private vendor's product simply because you are alive. Amazing that this is over so many liberal's heads. How can you all be so slow-witted?

Posted by: McTex | February 9, 2011 3:03 PM | Report abuse

McTex wrote: In truth, a corporation is nothing more than a coalition of like-minded individuals.
___________________
I would prefer not to use the word “moron” but sometimes nothing else will do. You obviously have no idea what the word “corporation” means as commonly understood by persons conversant in the English language.

A corporation is by definition an entity whose existence is a legal fiction. It is whatever the totality of the applicable local, state and federal laws say it is. Among the things the applicable laws require –- not recommend, but require –- of publically held corporations is that they maximize profits. That means that, by very definition, these entities do not give a damn what is or is not good for people as individuals. Nor do they give a damn what the long term consequences of their actions are. By definition these entities are concerned with the short run, and only the short run. If their policies result in the extermination of your grandchildren, they could not care less, provided their near term financial interests are served. If you don’t know these things, you are hopelessly ignorant.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 3:19 PM | Report abuse

So tell me, when is the GOP going to be accountable for the individual mandate that the insurance industry insisted be part of the AHC bill? It was originally a GOP mandate. Or is this lie going to stand? As for Manchin, considering he had to shoot a hole in a bill to get elected, I guess that speaks for it by itself.

Posted by: Figerre1 | February 9, 2011 3:34 PM | Report abuse

OH THANK YOU maurban, you are so smart and enlightened and we are so stupid...Imagine us dimwits thinking an administration that would take ownership of majority interest in private companies (GM, AIG, Chrysler) and promote unconstitutional legislation (Obamacare mandate) would be socialist leaning. Please enlighten us further, COMRADE.

Posted by: stevens3 | February 9, 2011 3:49 PM | Report abuse

J_B_A wrote, "A corporation is by definition an entity whose existence is a legal fiction. It is whatever the totality of the applicable local, state and federal laws say it is. Among the things the applicable laws require –- not recommend, but require –- of publically held corporations is that they maximize profits. That means that, by very definition, these entities do not give a damn what is or is not good for people as individuals. Nor do they give a damn what the long term consequences of their actions are. By definition these entities are concerned with the short run, and only the short run. If their policies result in the extermination of your grandchildren, they could not care less, provided their near term financial interests are served. If you don’t know these things, you are hopelessly ignorant."

And you call me a moron? You think corporations actually have the ability to think? "These entities" you wrote. These entities only care about profit, you rage. Those entities, you fraking moron, cannot think or feel or desire profit. Only the humans that run "their collectives" can.

That means that corporations do whatever the individuals (Boards, execs, shareholders, workers etc) who run them want them to do. And the INDIVIDUALS who run such collectives will do whatever ensures the continuation of the collective, which of course requires profit otherwise the collective will cease to be.

But THOSE INDIVIDUALS, like all humans, are not tethered to only a single goal (i.e. profit). Many hope to bring about positive change or hope to make the world a better place for their children.

Now since HUMANS run these collectives, then you will OFTEN find abuses of such organizations and not only in their pursuit of profit but in all areas of their business model. Why? Because HUMANS ARE FLAWED IMPERFECT AND OFTEN IMMORAL IRRATIONAL BEINGS, as you continue to prove.

If a corporation were to pursue policies that lead to the extermination of a new generation that corporation will quickly go out of business as its business model relies upon fewer potential customers. However when gov'ts, which morons like you seek to empower, seek the genocide of future generations, only forces stronger than that state can stop them.

You keep saying that "corporations don’t give a damn". OF course they don't. They aren't sentient. How are you so stupid that you don't grasp this? What you really mean is that there are people running large collectives that don't give a damn. But you refuse to word it that way because it violates your sophistic understanding of what a corporation actually is and it also forces you to admit the evil nature of man. Since people like you seek to empower men like Obama, who have the full authority of the state behind them, then it's no wonder you play word games and confuse non-living entities, who are incapable of action outside of human direction, with real living breathing people.

I got to know, are you truly this daft?

Posted by: McTex | February 9, 2011 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, those big evil corporations, whose "margin" as folks with a little non-NEA AFT book learning know it goes to pay the workers, and the many small investors who buy stock for the purpose of providing retirement income and such, financing research into new products. Henry FOrd, for example, ran a corporation. Without his ideas, cars would toys for the wealthy. Yup, corporations try to make profits, only lefty class envy Mensa types can't understand the ramifications of that. They tried running "profitless" business entities in the USSR, which I'll bet some of you NEA educated fools think is still around.

Posted by: DickTuck | February 9, 2011 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Today must be Red Herring Day. I oppose Obamacare vehemently, but the mandate is the least of the problems.

The first and most important is that the legislation does nothing to attack the many basic cost drivers of medical inflation, especially those, like our tort system, that add nothing to the quality or availability of care - just cost.

The second problem is the gold-plated medical plans that do not count as income to the recipients but are deductible to the employer. Obamacare just made it worse by giving free passes to their political allies in the public and private unions.

The third problem is the way the subsidy system is going to work. It will have few, if any, co-pays and deductibles, so it will be another invitation to abuse and overuse like Medicare and Medicaid. The low estimate of fraud in those programs is $60 billion a year the high estimate twice that. Throw in the unnecessary use and you certainly get to the $120 bill a year figure.

Add it all up and the total cost is going to be outrageous. Once those costs hit the easy reaction will be to reduce the quality and availability of care - rationing. The supporters can say "no, no, no" as much as they want, but they know it's true.

Ask any supporter what model they are using so we can evaluate how it will function and their response is - no model, it's our own unique system. If they are going to use cost comparisons based on other countries then they have explain how that translates to our "own unique system" and they can't.

Posted by: low_roller_99 | February 9, 2011 3:54 PM | Report abuse

On the other hand, some of the truly loathsome "finance" corporations on Wall Street are having Obama stimulis dough shoveled at them hand over fist. Who was it gave Obama all that camppaign money?

Posted by: DickTuck | February 9, 2011 3:55 PM | Report abuse

how about we get the government out of the medical business 100%. all of it. they can regulate business practices, slap down monopolies, license providers, demand contract transparency, and provide vouchers for people in poverty. until people shop for and pay for their own care nothing will function. that is the only way to bend the cost curve and is the only sustainable health care delivery system. period. end of story.

Posted by: gcblues_coolazul | February 9, 2011 4:07 PM | Report abuse

Replying to:

"Another duplicitious column from Rubin. In fact, the most unpopular segments of "Obamacare" are being revoked and that is increasing support for the overall legislation. The most unpopular segment, mandatory coverage, was included at the insistence of the GOP (who still voted against it) and was for the sole benefit of the insurance industry. There are no perfect fixes, but universal care rather than mandatory private insurance is the most cost effective and widely supported means to reduce health care costs. Of course, the GOP will never stab their biggest contributors (the insurance industry) in the back by doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Posted by: fingersfly | February 9, 2011 11:13 AM |"

Bulls-eye, Fingersfly! Ms. Rubin's prowess at employing highly elastic logic, stretching the meaning of words, quoting selectively and cherry-picking data, all in the service of ideology would make SpiderMan proud!

Posted by: DCSteve1 | February 9, 2011 4:09 PM | Report abuse

It's a little late for these "remorseful" dems to suddenly start agreeing with the majority of Americans that Obamacare is not a good bill. They should have READ the bill BEFORE voting YES on it. I HOPE voters don't let them off the hook so easily.

Posted by: numag | February 9, 2011 4:14 PM | Report abuse

"All we need is another policy that does the same thing..."

More tricks from the Libs, just like the way they got the Socialized Healthcare Bill passed.

The whole article sounds like it was written by a kid who is about to have his bicycle taken away. The Libs keep pushing the illusion this is "free" care, while everyone knows it'll bankrupt us; even from our Thug president who vowed to "cut spending" and "create a dialogue" with the Republicans.

Posted by: roccotool | February 9, 2011 4:37 PM | Report abuse

Obama himself has said the individual mandate is crucial to Obamacare and cannot be removed without destroying the whole thing. His lawyers said the same thing while arguing in court against state lawsuits.

Posted by: RobT1 | February 9, 2011 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Memo to McTex:

Obviously reason has no impact on you. Perhaps you got your notion of how corporate boards work from repeated viewings of Mary Poppins.

Try to understand the logical implication of the legal requirement that publicly owned corporations maximize profits. If you can understand that reality you will realize that it is a legal and factual impossibility that publicly owned corporate boards could behave in avuncular fashion you imagine. Any corporate board insane enough to try would soon cease to exist by virtue of legal action of the shareholders. Corporations – or, if you insist on the point, corporate officers and directors – simply do not inhabit your imaginary, Pollyanna universe. Nor, a fortiori, do they give a damn that you are completely incapable of comprehending any of the above.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 4:50 PM | Report abuse

Obama Commy care what a joke, Obozo is one termer up 15 states are going to demand to see his Birth Certificate and be vetted to be on the ballot. Now Hillbillary the most radical leftist ever to be sec of state is his running mate as VP, Hillary that lives in Canada not the USA with her girl fiend. Time to throw out all leftists. This is America a Maloto Muslim kenyan born President and a Extreme leftist Hillary as VP candidate. Not in America a 1 term or less Obama. Hillary is double communist who trashes the USA to every dictor in the world total graceless ----scum and a bucket of monkey dung together on one ballot! "Obama the Monkey dung and Hillbillery lesbian Hitler for VP.Time for free barf bags! This reminds be 84 when the other leftist women ran for VP Ferraro 49 state said Hell NO!

Posted by: dcsdcs222000 | February 9, 2011 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Regarding ObamaCare, just resist, resist, resist. It's never been supported by a majority of the people, it's being sued against by over half the states, and a court has already found it to be unconstitutional and void -- as the 5-4 conservative majority Supreme Court almost certainly will, also.

PAY NO FINE

SERVE NO TIME

SAY NO TO OBAMACARE

And what are they going to do about it? What, throw half the country into concentration camps?

They don't have walls that high, or b@11s that big.

Posted by: DRIVEAPROGRESSIVERAVINGMAD--BACKTHEJEWS | February 9, 2011 4:55 PM | Report abuse

"Corporate propaganda"? The major propaganda outlets are ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, all of them Obama sychophants and apologists. Wake up folks. Thinking Americans refuse to believe the pansy left propaganda that these media outlets and fellow traveler "cultural propaganda" outlets like the unscientific Discovery Channel, the un-historic "History Channel" (what an intellectual sewer of baloney), the un-geographic, "NatGeo" Channel (that covers everything EXCEPT geography), the global warming propaganda outfit that masquerades as the "Weather Channel", and just plain dishonest, NPR. Thinking people read books, use their own discernment, analysis, and logic and wholeheartedly REJECT the parroted mantras of the left. First derivative "labeling" as opposed to rational thought, is being rejected by an ever growing number of Americans. We've had enough of being spoken down to, lectured, and labeled as bigots, racists, and gun-toting, religious morons. We reject your ideas, your media, your politics, and your leaders. C'mon 2012. The adults have had enough.

Posted by: NCMike | February 9, 2011 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The evil trinity of Obama, Pelosi and Reid need to have this Obamacare blown right up in their faces. They proposed something that had many agencies involved, was peppered with earmarks, and which destroyed the confidence of employers who did not want it because of the onerous burden which would remove incentives for expansion and job creation. This should be a lesson for those inside the beltway that they need to listen to the people instead of playing deaf to popular opinion.

Posted by: shearwatersoil | February 9, 2011 5:05 PM | Report abuse

The Keynesians want all of America's capital locked up in Washington DC so politicians can raid the cookie jar for their pet projects. Obama is nudging America toward socialism via federal income taxes, fees, excise taxes and payroll deductions as well as suffocating environmental regulations.

Posted by: shearwatersoil | February 9, 2011 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Ben Nelson couldn't get elected to County Weed Control Supervisor in 2012.

Posted by: Betty8 | February 9, 2011 5:31 PM | Report abuse

The feeble minded seem to never figure out how Obama Care "saves" the government money.

It saves money by forcing us to buy "one size fits all" insurance at costs which match the extravagance of the coverage.

At the same time, they choke off the incentive for the best and brightest to invest in medical school by limiting their ability to sell their services on the open market.

We will find ourselves in a land where we pay a lot for insurance, get little access to actual doctors, and our illnesses go untreated. The IRS will take over medical insurance billing and bankruptcy will no longer discharge medical debts. But the government will be saving money!

Posted by: xdream1 | February 9, 2011 5:36 PM | Report abuse

N)! We need to get rid of the whole #$%^&! thing- not just the insurance mandate. There are hundreds of objectionable, overreaching, statist, unconstitutional things in it. I cannot overemphasisze that we need to tear it up and START OVER.

Sure, there were a few good things in it, but those can be incorporated within the framework of a new, constitutional, affordable bill.

Posted by: gmiller2 | February 9, 2011 5:37 PM | Report abuse

Health Savings Accounts / High deductible policies are the way to bring market forces to bear on the increasing costs of health care. The government cannot run it effectively or efficiently. Lower tax rates so that businesses can hire the unemployed. Limit the amount of time someone can be on public assistance. No work / no eat. And stop the spending- we need deep cuts in every sector of the federal government now.

Posted by: intrepid1776 | February 9, 2011 5:39 PM | Report abuse

Food for cash. Medical services for cash. Pooled risk for catastrophic illness/injury. Cash for work. No cash - only bare bones food & Medical services.

Posted by: xdream1 | February 9, 2011 5:49 PM | Report abuse

There are so many excellent comments but I guess that I will add one more. What the silly Post will not report is that support is melting away from this Obama man-child in everything, not just ObamaCare. Obama is a disgrace and a disaster for the nation.

Posted by: walterndebby | February 9, 2011 6:08 PM | Report abuse

I believe it's likely that Obama will attempt to defuse Health Care as an issue by 'fixing' it. He will attempt to draw Republicans into negotiations to fix the thing. Obviously he will attempt to make changes at the edges to claim a bipartisan reform that will help him get reelected come Nov of 2012. The Republicans will attempt to replace it with a market based approach. From Obama's point of view either would work and he would claim a victory there and probably in the election.

This is not a slam dunk for the Republicans and Obama and Reid have plenty to work with... see this article outlining one view of Obama's trap


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/07/AR2011020703215.html

Posted by: Otiose1 | February 9, 2011 6:12 PM | Report abuse

I believe it's likely that Obama will attempt to defuse Health Care as an issue by 'fixing' it. He will attempt to draw Republicans into negotiations to fix the thing. Obviously he will attempt to make changes at the edges to claim a bipartisan reform that will help him get reelected come Nov of 2012. The Republicans will attempt to replace it with a market based approach. From Obama's point of view either would work and he would claim a victory there and probably in the election.

This is not a slam dunk for the Republicans and Obama and Reid have plenty to work with... see this article outlining one view of Obama's trap


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/07/AR2011020703215.html

Posted by: Otiose1 | February 9, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

The solution is easy .. if you don't have insurance, and you get sick, you have to pay for it. If you don't have insurance, and you are sick, and you try to get insurance, it doesn't have to cover the pre-existing conditions.

This keeps the freeloaders from waiting until they are sick to get insurance.

Oh wait .. that's how IT WORKS NOW YOU MORONS!!!!

The *ONLY* changes needed for insurance reform (since there are no actual health care reforms in the bill) are to not allow insurance companies to drop patients because they get sick, and to require insurance companies to take anyone on an existing comparable plan regardless of medical condition. Don't like your caps?? Pay higher premiums. Don't like your deductibles?? Pay higher premiums.

That's the way all car, home, and life insurance all work, why should this be any different. You couldn't get a car fixed for a crash you had yesterday by going to State Farm and signing up for insurance. Why should health insurance be any different.

Posted by: fredisstilldead | February 9, 2011 6:28 PM | Report abuse

J.B.A.
Here's the real choice.
Provide for yourself or depend on the government.
I, for one, will provide for myself. People aren't falling for the propaganda any more. The leftists don't own all of the presses any more. Your Alinsky methods are a dead hand. We read your playbook. See ya at the polls in November of 2012.
Actually in the primaries before November.
Did you hear about the shakeup at CBS and how Comcast bought NBC? Bye now child.

Posted by: theunbubba | February 9, 2011 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Who cares what that punk Ezra Klein thinks. Isn't he the moron that said he could not understand the Constitution because it is over 100 years old? Isn't he the moron who was part of that Jounolist list that piped for Otraitor during the election? He is useless as a writer he is no better then any old Soviet propagandist. As far as Deathcare I want it GONE. All of it. If any of this diseased legislation is left it will take over like a cancer.

Posted by: harley2002 | February 9, 2011 7:26 PM | Report abuse

That's just another reason Obamacare NEVER should have passed. It was NOT well thought out. Crazy..........

Posted by: oildad | February 9, 2011 7:40 PM | Report abuse

Ezra Kline? All they've got is Ezra Kline, pretty pathetic.

Posted by: johnnorcross50 | February 9, 2011 7:43 PM | Report abuse

theunbubba wrote: Here's the real choice. Provide for yourself or depend on the government. I, for one, will provide for myself.
_____________

Okay, Mr. Universe, answer me any of the following:

1) Did you arrange to be born in USA, or did someone else take care of that for you?
2) Did you arrange for the existence of the US Constitution, or does someone besides you get some credit?
3) Did you arrange to save the Union in 1861-65 or did someone else take care of that problem?
4) Did you personally manage to keep USA democratic through all the perils of WWI and WWII or was that someone besides you?
5) How about police protection, anesthesia, telecommunications, and the availability of education – did you personally achieve all of that for yourself, or does someone besides you get some credit?
6) Are you the inventor of all the inventions you use in a day – or a lifetime – or did the US Patent Office mistakenly issue patents to someone besides yourself?

Right wing myopians are so predictable and soooooo sickening.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 9, 2011 7:50 PM | Report abuse

The solution to health care costs, inequities, rationing, and government control over individual freedom, is the free market. Fifty years ago, you went to the doctor and paid a nominal fee for exams, shots, tests, etc. Costs were contained because there was competition and there any number of doctors to select. You had medical insurance for hospital stays and catastrophic illnesses and accidents. With the intrusion of government prices went up, choices were limited, etc. It's just like the cost of college education. Costs of college didn't start sky rocketing until government got involved in the loan process and weaseled into the schools themselves. It is incomprehensible that college costs continue to escalate when the only significant cost is teacher salaries. Send your thank you notes to the unions.

Posted by: NCMike | February 9, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

Obama has had to learn a lesson most people learn earlier in life - even bullies eventually pay for their behavior. Forcing this monstrosity on everyone only leads to its repeal. All he had to do was work on a consensus win and everyone would have had to make it successful. Read Stephen Covey - what is supported by the group is far more likely to be successful than what some smart guy thinks is the best answer.

Posted by: Regularguy5 | February 9, 2011 9:07 PM | Report abuse

when over 65% of people want this bill as written scrapped.with democrats up for reelection the bull will be flying since all voted for it. the democarts are toast in 2012. you cant justify a bill like this when you voted for it without reading. then to come back and try to weazle your self out of the vote. it seems democrats just think the american voters are stupid and have a memory of a worm. if they are betting on that it will be a clean sweep in nov 2012.. they already will lose the white house. their only hope is republicans go back to this toucy hands across the aisle garbage that got them canned in 06 and allowed democrats to balloon the defecit to well over 4 trillion dollars. the largest deficit gain in the history of record keeping. while the media just played the three monkeys!

Posted by: carl6352 | February 9, 2011 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Obama knows that his healthcare plan is going to work because he personally tested it in a leper colony, where he healed everyone by shaking hands and kissing babies.

Posted by: lusty_infant | February 9, 2011 9:14 PM | Report abuse

I hope that our leadership begins to understand that we MUST, as a humane first-world nation, never allow our fellow human beings to suffer neglect or death due to somebody not getting paid. It's bull hookey! Regardless of the outcome from efforts to repeal, or retool, or replace the healthcare act, we won't allow (nor can we morally justify) such a reality. So...

...we HAVE a public healthcare system. The state and county health departments offer many basic health services that for-profit medical practices and hospitals offer. We have infrastructure and payment systems that support these local healthcare institutions. The poorest among us have used the health department services as primary medical for decades; good for us that these services exist. Doctors, physicians assistants, nurse practitioners, and nurses should have health department shifts, at a fair market rate, to care for those that can't or won't use for-profit insurance supported medical services. Many PAs, NPs, RNs, MedTechs would welcome the opportunity to work a few four hour shifts here and there. Their valuable services will earn these medical professionals much needed additional income.

Let us imagine a medical / scientific renaissance that is paid for as we go. NO BORROWED money. Do the math. Find the formula.

Take a 4% "healthcare surcharge" from every paycheck,dividend check, capital gain, corporate net profit, etc., etc., etc. Further support the fund with a 2% sales tax on EVERY transaction (excluding grocery purchases).

We won't like it but it is the only way to fully fund health services for all Americans. It is an act of charity. It is an act of patriotism. No...you won't be able to keep your favorite M.D. (for little or nothing), unless you can catch them working a shift at the health department. Otherwise, you will have to pay for their services and your healthcare. We will pay as we always have...on virtually every payday.

We must continue to fund, expand, and enhance public healthcare. Every established "Health Department" in every county / state in America should get a raise. We don't have to reinvent the wheel...we just have to fund AND EXPAND the services we already have established.

It's easy. Give everybody that doesn't have for-profit healthcare coverage...coverage. They have to go to the Health Department (or social service office) and electronically file for assistance. Every public hospital will continue to treat every human being that comes through the door. The Hippocratic Oath requires it. Our nation's soul demands it. If we can't provide basic comfort for those among us that are suffering then we have entered a very dark place.

Posted by: SlaveofThemachine | February 9, 2011 9:31 PM | Report abuse

Ezra is nothing more than the WP's own Obama press secretary, why would anyone read his propaganda anyway?
Now the "willingness" to compromise cards are out and are just the same as always, we (the dems) give up nothing and you move more than halfway to meet us.
What a deal.
How about this?
Defund epa.
pass a 1 cent national sales tax (for ten years only) and have the money directly go to pay the national debt (its a start only).
Bar excessive malpractice and tort awards.
Get the army out of europe unless they want to pay for it.
start drilling in the artic, and gulf again.
Have Nasa get out of the climate fraud buisness and crash program alternate and improved fuels and engines.
Finish the fences with Mexico or start charging them for the costs of illegals here in the US (as it stands their position is nothing short of an act of war against our sovereignty).
Sell southern California to Mexico.
Kick the UN out of NY, move it to SF, they'll feel much more at home there anywhere.

Posted by: Saladin3 | February 9, 2011 9:34 PM | Report abuse

So here's the deal: Do not worry about Obamacare being weakened and dragging on for years ineffectually.

Our lousy Senate failed to approve the repeal. If they had, the One would have vetoed it anyway. This was expected.

Now the House will defund it, so that it can do the least damage possible.

UNTIL 2012.

In 2012, it WILL BE REPEALED. Passed by a conservative House, passed by a conservative Senate, and signed by a conservative President.

It doesn't matter whether or not the Supreme Court actually admits that its unconstitutional.

Posted by: belseware | February 9, 2011 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Someone please explain to me why if someone does not have insurance, it will "leave the rest of us paying for them"? Why? Says who? If Julio has no insurance and takes his kids to the ER....who says he is exempt from paying? Paying at THAT moment, maybe not...but eventually....or course.

There has become this great confusion re the Patient Bill of Rights with not making them eventually pay.

Just because you are not able to pay now, there should still be a requirement to pay eventually.

Posted by: bmbsqd | February 9, 2011 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Mctex wrote "And you call me a moron? You think corporations actually have the ability to think? "These entities" you wrote. These entities only care about profit, you rage. Those entities, you fraking moron, cannot think or feel or desire profit. Only the humans that run "their collectives" can."
*******************************************


It very apparent you have no idea how a company or business runs. I own my company and it needs but one thing to "LIVE" CASH also know as PROFIT. The humans behind that make sure it gets it all the time. Just as you need air to breathe it NEEDS CASH to live period. SO yes you are a moron. The less it makes the less people it will need to feed it. get it>>>>

The more gov't takes again, the less people needed to feed it, or go somewhere were the people do not have a high standard of living, taxes are low to nonexisted and there is a hellva lot less regulation on that business, so that it can get more CASH/PROFIT to feed on.
**********************************
Remove the gov't from my business and my life as well as yours and then see how much better would be. Get rid of the gov't from educating are children and see how many more small companies would start up.

No, still don't get it, Gov't makes nothing but laws,barriers from your money and everyone elses. Get them the hell out of the way. People will prosper on their own once they know that busting their ass is for them not the GOV'T.

Geta head outta u ass son (as my grandfather always said) translated from Italian so you would understand.

Sorry for the beating but you need to wake up. Read the US Constutition and Bill of Rights. Maybe you'll get it.

Posted by: oneshotonly | February 10, 2011 12:14 AM | Report abuse

One last thought here today fellow Americans. Do you really want to stop and get the government's attention. Now remember we need to this as a whole not a few, DON'T PAY YOUR TAXES. To hell with them, the courts could never handle the case load.
However only about 5% of the population has the balls to do it.
So until the other 95% want to join us, Vote the bastards out DEM or REP. We then make it term limits for all of them period.
That's all good night and God bless.

Posted by: oneshotonly | February 10, 2011 12:34 AM | Report abuse

QUESTION: Why do they have to repeal a law which has already been declared unconstitutional?

If big insurance and big pharma pour in enough money to buy the vote again in 2011, "We the People" will pour enough money and grass roots efforts into the 2012 elections to make it impossible for Congress to ignore 63 percent of the American people.

Posted by: wallace1303 | February 10, 2011 3:01 AM | Report abuse

It's the Independents, Stupid
or,
It's the Stupid Independents?

2012 is not a given -- you gotta have somebody to beat somebody.

Fasten your seatbelts -- it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Posted by: aardunza | February 10, 2011 3:16 AM | Report abuse

Obama's problem in Egypt is policy, not "conflicting signals"

Obama simply does not know what he is doing.

Obama started last week with one policy - BEFORE he listened to the experts. Then the experts started sinking through his THICK EGO, and other considerations began to finally cause Obama to think about the actual CONSEQUENCES.


So, now the policy is in limbo.


Clearly, Obama simply did not understand American National Security INTERESTS in the MIDDLE EAST until this week. The statements coming from the Obama people even up to mid-last week reflected a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the region.


It was ONLY when Obama realized that if he messed up there would be domestic political implications did he change his tune.


The liberals have imposed on this nation an UNQUALIFIED AND INEXPERIENCED THICK-EGO of a person who is a DISASTER WAITING TO HAPPEN.


Obama may have averted a major disaster this time. However, the country keeps getting closer and closer to Obama making a major mistake.

This time, by encouraging the protestors who were aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama almost caused ANOTHER WAR in the Middle East.


If Obama continued down that road, the Muslim Brotherhood would have taken over the Egyptian goverenment, and who knows how many other countries in the Middle East. This surely would have caused another war - either during Obama's term or soon after.

Obama should resign immediately. If this nation had a Board of Directors, Obama would have been FIRED last year.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 6:51 AM | Report abuse

Obama's health bill has CAUSED the GREAT OBAMA STAGNATION - an Economic time when business uncertainly is so great that not only is investment halted, but hiring is down.

Obviously, this will go down in history as one of the dumbest economic policies in the history of the nation - in the category of Hoovervilles and the Smoot-Harley Tariff.


Obama has been complete ineffective - and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE is probably much more accurate.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 7:00 AM | Report abuse

Jobs are the most important issue


Obama is a complete failure.


There is no other way to see it.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 7:04 AM | Report abuse

If we are going to have a health care bill, the Republicans should come up with their alternative - and Obama should just take that bill.


This idea that Obama is going to write a 2,000 page bill which no one knows what is in it - and somehow Obama thinks that will stands - well that is the stuff of what gets people locked up in mental hospitals.


The funding of Obama's bill - STILL NOT DONE. This bill is STILL a deficit-bomb. It is a ticking time deficit-bomb. So, that part of it is STILL not resolved.


And that is BEFORE the revenue from the individual mandate gets taken out of the equation.


The Federal government should strictly regulate the insurance companies - the ABUSES OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES - and the States should take the rest of the health care powers.


.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 7:10 AM | Report abuse


Times of London:

Saudi Arabia has threatened to prop up President Mubarak if the White House tries to force a swift change of regime in Egypt. In a testy personal telephone call on January 29, King Abdullah told President Obama not to humiliate Mr Mubarak and warned that he would step in to bankroll Egypt if the US withdrew its aid programme, worth $1.5 billion annually. America’s closest ally in the Gulf made clear that the Egyptian President must be allowed to stay on to oversee the transition towards peaceful democracy and then leave with dignity. “Mubarak and King Abdullah are not just allies, they are close friends, and the King is not about to see his friend cast aside and humiliated,” a senior source in the Saudi capital told The Times. Two sources confirmed details of the King’s call

_________________________


Yikes Really going some when the Saudis have to step in and protect American Interests in the Middle East.

The Saudis basicly told Obama, if you don't do it, we will.

The Saudis are going to be around after Obama's term (singular) and they understand what they are doing.

.

Posted by: RainForestRising | February 10, 2011 8:01 AM | Report abuse

Fingerfly wrote Of course, the GOP will never stab their biggest contributors (the insurance industry) in the back by doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Herein lies the main problem with the Compost comment section.
People like you can make a completely erroneous statement and not back it up with one iota of data to back up their allegations.
You, sir or madam, need to actually look at which party has received a huge slice of the healthcare, insurance and public sector contributions pie. I can tell you right now. It wasn't the Repugnanticans. Who do you think wrote this legislation? It wasn't the Congress. It wasn't the White House. And it's very hard to find because of the impressive transparency promised by President Potato Head, is not there.
-----------------

Functionally illiterate much? I didn't say that the insurance industry gave only to the GOP. I said they are the GOP's biggest contributors. And, for the record, they are now giving a LOT more to the GOP than to Democrats. It is common practice for corporations to donate more to the majority party because they control the chairmanships of all legislative committees. Your claim that the Democrats wrote the bill ignores the input from Republicans who insisted on certain compromises, like the individual mandate, and then still refused to vote for it. That's acting in bad faith. Unlike you, I don't believe one party is corrupt and the other not. There are corrupt members in both parties who essentially take bribes from large donors to vote a certain way. There are just more corrupt GOP members. However, the insurance industry increased their donations to the GOP when they started working on health care reform and they got their money's worth, legislation that almost no one likes in total. Despite the way the Rasmussen poll has been "analysed," if you look at the actual poll you will see that the majority really want tweaks to the reform bill, which is occurring, not wholesale repeal. What Rasmussen never asks is how many want universal coverage. Of course, your demonstrated functional illiteracy undoubtedly makes it necessary for you to rely on partisan spinners like Rubin to interpret polls since you obviously lack any critical thinking skills. That seems to be a common ailment of the far right and there is no cure.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1010/43058.html

Posted by: fingersfly | February 10, 2011 8:07 AM | Report abuse

The bill has already been deemed Unconstitutional, in its entirety, by a federal judge. No mincing that. It doesn't matter how many leftist judges said it wasn't - it only matters that one sane judge had the gonads to rule that it was.

The SCOTUS will uphold the ruling in a 5-4 decision, and Obamacare will be officially dead.

The Progressive fringe of the Democrat Party (Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Frank, et al), is directly responsible for the political massacre that will occur at the polls in 2012. If you thought November was a rout, just wait for 2012. Progressives are Communists with a cute name.

Posted by: libertyfirst1776 | February 10, 2011 8:26 AM | Report abuse

Hoisted on their own petard ... I could not think of a better coda for the preogressive wing of the Democratic party ... Klein has lost all credibility and has taken on the persona of a sycophantic court jester trying to soothe the self inflicted wounds of his emporer ... I believe the Bard would classify this as a tragicomedy ...

Posted by: cunn9305 | February 10, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

Liberty First wrote: The bill has already been deemed Unconstitutional, in its entirety, by a federal judge. No mincing that. It doesn't matter how many leftist judges said it wasn't - it only matters that one sane judge had the gonads to rule that it was.

=========================

"It doesn't matter how many leftist judges said it wasn't" proves you have no interest in facts or knowledge of constitutional law. The only aspect of the health care reform bill that is even slightly questionable is the "individual mandate," and that can be revoked if found unconstitutional (very unlikely). Of course, the only real fix for escalating health care costs is universal coverage, like every other first world country in the world already has and what the majority in this country wants, but which our legislature won't pass because they are owned by the industry. We are #1 in health care costs and #37 in outcomes, ranking far below every first world country and even below CUBA! That should be unacceptable to everyone regardless of political party.

Posted by: fingersfly | February 10, 2011 9:14 AM | Report abuse

The US is #1 in health care costs:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_car_fun_tot_per_cap-care-funding-total-per-capita

The US is #37 in health care outcomes:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Posted by: fingersfly | February 10, 2011 9:43 AM | Report abuse

Re the constitutionality of the Affordable Health Care Act, no serious legal scholar doubts that the entirety of the Act is well within the limits of Congressional power as heretofore defined by the US Supreme Court. What everyone does doubt is the integrity of the corporatists, Roberts, Alito, and Scalia (obviously the pornographer, Clarence Thomas, lacks even a shred of integrity), who have repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to abandon judicial precedent – not to mention the plain text of the Constitution – each and every time they have the opportunity to advance the corporate agenda.

Posted by: J_B_A | February 10, 2011 10:05 AM | Report abuse

The name for this legislation is the Affordable Health Care for America Act.
The term "Obamacare" is a code word used by racists when they can't use the word they want to use, which is "N***erCare". Anyone that refers to the Affordable Health Care for America Act as "Obamacare" has no credibility or standing among intelligent people in a decent society, and those that insist on calling The Affordable Health Care for America Act "Obamacare" should be shunned for the vile, disgusting and dishonest racist monsters that they are.
Starting with you, Jennifer Rubin.

Posted by: FriendofKeyserSoze | February 10, 2011 7:02 PM | Report abuse

THE COMMANDER,viewpoints,obama "If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it."OBAMA,Will screw us hard, fast, and in an elegant manner." obama The conqueror is always a lover of peace; he would prefer to take over our country unopposed.Truth be damned, Obama and THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRAT,Wake up america!! OBAMA goes about the business by speaking the lie.“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”Mmslim Barack Hussein Obama people have no idea of the extent to which they have to be gulled in order to be led." OBAMA will use every tool available: school teachers, politicians, news broadcasters, artists, musicians, scientists and doctors, lawyers and businessmen and men who claim to be preachers of the gospel of Jesus Christ. All will be pressed into the service of OBAMA to deceive men. "All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those towards whom it is directed will understand it. Therefore, the intellectual level of the propaganda must be lower the larger the number of people who are to be influenced by it." truth be damned. Obama It would be easier for the Devil to go to church and cross himself with holy water than for these people to comprehend the ideas which are accepted facts to us today.How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think. .Is Barack Obama pushing forward dangerous policies that are bringing the United States closer to a socialist dictatorship. Are you even aware?

Posted by: mjski56 | February 12, 2011 2:32 AM | Report abuse

The only 'fair' thing to do is let people be responsible for themselves instead of forcing everybody to be responsible for everybody else. In America, failure has historically been the incentive to succeed. In Obama’s America, people with valuable skills become slaves, until they decide to stop being slaves and making up for other people’s lack of production. At which point, everybody feels the pain that our president intended to save people from in the first place. Individual liberty and personal responsibility are way too undervalued in Obama's administration. Sink, swim or build a boat. Obama, Pelosi, and Reid’s Health Care Law need to be trashed for the sake of liberty and prosperity.

Also, thanks to maurban for entertaining me with some of the most idiotic statements I've ever read.

Posted by: luncheaterguy | February 14, 2011 7:55 AM | Report abuse

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