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Posted at 8:25 AM ET, 03/11/2011

Sen. Ron Johnson denounces 'mob rule'

By Jennifer Rubin

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), a former businessman and now a freshman senator, held a conference call Thursday afternoon with a small group of bloggers. For a freshman, he's entirely fluid on the issues and easily navigates between specifics and larger themes.

I asked him about Wisconsin. Why did Gov. Scott Walker take so long to pull out the "fiscal" elements and pass the legislation without a quorum? Johnson first made clear that he and the governor believe this "is not about individual workers . . . but about rebalancing the equation" so that the taxpayers' interests are being protected. As for the long-in-coming resolution, Johnson explained that the governor wanted the collective bargaining provision and the rest of the cost-cutting measures "tied" because they were all part of the effort to close the state's budget deficit. But it became evident the Democrats weren't budging. He said that one Democratic senator even requested an absentee ballot for the spring election. At that point Walker moved forward on the bill.

But Johnson was clearly disturbed by what he characterized as "mob rule and thuggery." He said that Republicans were being accused of being undemocratic, but "what doesn't look democratic is the mob rule." He argued that the "amount of thuggery, the threats of execution" have not been sufficiently covered by the media. He recalled that a radio show host read an anonymous e-mail sent to all the Wisconsin Republican state senators "threatening to put a bullet" through their heads and asserting that the e-mailer knew where the senators and their families were. Johnson said, "That is so out of bounds."

He told me, "Our democracy is working here," pointing to the Nov. 2 election of the governor and state legislators. He added, in a tone that was more sad than angry, "It's a shame it's being handled this way by the Democrats."

As for Walker himself, Johnson related that the governor has been "resolved throughout the process." He also acknowledged that while talking tough in public, Walker was "trying to be reasonable behind the scenes."

As for the federal budget, Johnson argued that we will have a fiscal crisis if we don't get our spending under control. He was dismayed that "the president isn't leading." The president "sitting on the sidelines isn't helping" address our fiscal problems, he said. Both the White House and Senate Democrats, he asserted, "need to get serious." He observed that the Senate's proposed cuts amount to less than a day of borrowing on our current debt.

Johnson, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), was a Tea Party favorite and a political novice. He is now showing himself to be a serious legislator, indeed more focused and articulate than many veteran senators. We will see if he can bring the private-sector perspective to a Senate where it is often missing.

By Jennifer Rubin  | March 11, 2011; 8:25 AM ET
Categories:  Budget  
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Comments

ah, the tolerant left in action

Posted by: sold2u | March 11, 2011 8:47 AM | Report abuse

More than a third of the nation’s $9.3 trillion in pension assets belong to state and local government employees, even though they make up only 15 percent of the U.S. work force, a study shows.

Research by the Spectrum investment group found that public-sector employees, primarily through powerful unions, have accumulated by far the most generous retirement programs in the country.

------------------

LOLOLOLOL

The true investor class. Now this makes me go hmmmm, since there've already been discussions about grabbing citizens 401Ks and giving us a stipend - what the king thinks we should live on during retirement. We have to be FAIR even tho some of us sacrificed. For the greater good, you know.

Do we take bets that these funds would be exempt if they tried it?

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 8:55 AM | Report abuse

Mickey Kaus points out there's an election for WI state supremem court:


Will Wisconsin voters feel comfortable turning a judicial election into, in effect, a referendum on a law Democrats don’t like? Will the other 3 Democratic-appointed Supreme Court judges play along with this slightly banana-republicy game? True, conservatives have often campaigned against liberal judges after unpopular rulings (e.g., Rose Bird in California). But it seems even worse, in terms of legal etiquette, to elect a judge in order to make a particular ruling, about a particular law, in a particular upcoming case.


chip chip chip away, this isn't going to end well.

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 9:01 AM | Report abuse

It's easy to see why Jennifer was allowed on the conference call. I'd certainly want to be "interviewed" by someone who uncritically reports what I say, while at the same time lavishing praise on me. This ranks up there with her "interview" with Gov. Rick Perry.

Here's my question though, where is the "mob rule" that Sen. Johnson appears so concerned about in Wisconsin? Republicans got exactly the law they wanted, while I would guess the "mobs" camped out in the Capitol would have wanted a different result.

Or is this just his way of saying recalls shouldn't be allowed if Republicans are in danger of losing their seats?

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 9:14 AM | Report abuse

Thank you Senator R. Johnson-Mob Thuggery is so true. I went to Madison last Sat. to observe. Most of the protesters there were students from Univ. What stake do they have in all this. They have been convinced by their professors to go out and do this for them. Don't they realize that helping their professors to be able to bargain for unlimited salaries, benefits of gold, an extra 6,000 per yr. to carry a pager??? Come on-Wake up America. Those students are only hurting themselves. Where is the money going to come from, the taxpayers or by RAISING THEIR TUITIONS. Pretty dumb. I seen them form a peace sign out of their bodys. What does this have to do w/peace. They don't even have a grasp as to why they are there. Their being told what they need to do. I even suspect they are getting paid to do this.

Posted by: cras | March 11, 2011 9:15 AM | Report abuse

Folks in Wisconsin apparently don't much like their state government employees -- the gov, senators, representives, etc. -- lying to them. When the folks in Wisconsin demonstrate their displeasure -- and the fact that they know they've been lied to -- the liars get real nervous and call them mobsters and thugs. Rubin, of course, sides with the liars. Why am I not surprised?

The GOP has lost Wisconsin for 2012, and probably for the next 20 years as well.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 9:18 AM | Report abuse

Jesus Christ, a REPUBLICAN denouncing 'mob rule'? How ridiculous is that? You scumbags used mob rule to get elected, to get us into Iraq, pass the Patriot act and legalize torture. With all due respect, which is none, you can go to hell. You Republican's situational morals, ethics and religion are disgusting.

Posted by: aartmann112004 | March 11, 2011 9:23 AM | Report abuse

Or is this just his way of saying recalls shouldn't be allowed if Republicans are in danger of losing their seats?

The state of IL's recall provision was removed when they redid the state constition in 1970. King Richard I didn't want it.

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 9:35 AM | Report abuse

"Johnson explained that the governor wanted the collective bargaining provision and the rest of the cost-cutting measures "tied" because they were all part of the effort to close the state's budget deficit."

Uh, no. Busting the unions on behalf of billionaire patrons has nothing to do with balancing budgets. What Johnson/Walker/Koch wanted was to conflate union busting with budget balancing, and the Democrats expertly denied them the opportunity to do that.

As far as death threats and whatnot, that's part of the background noise of all public life. That Jennifer Rubin inserts these anecdotes in her column is a cheap grab for sensationalism.

Let's not forget that after the passage of the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act passed, right wing bloggers unleashed a small-scale mimic of Kristallnacht, breaking congressmen's windows all over America.

My local congressman has his office right off the street, and he had to have his picture window replaced with bulletproof glass out of fear of violent right wingers.

The Democrats played this masterfully. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams in raising national awareness, getting national involvement, and exposing right wing lies for what they are. Walker and Koch are just trying not to let a crisis go to waste; they're trying to change the course of history.

To contribute money to recall the Republican 8, visit wisdems.org.

MoveOn.org has already raised over 800,000 dollars to spend on the recall effort and is coordinating door-to-door.

Get involved and do your part. Visit Wisconsin this spring to help with the recalls.

And join a union.

Posted by: member8 | March 11, 2011 9:55 AM | Report abuse

This pantload didn't have any problem with "mob rule" when it was teabagger mobs led by Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Planet Mongo) storming the US Capitol.

Posted by: Observer691 | March 11, 2011 10:01 AM | Report abuse

Gov Walker just recinded the 1500 layoff notices...OMG! Gov Walker just created or saved 1500 Jobs...will this work...since it was used by obama to serve more koolaid to the liberal leftnuts....hahahahaha!

Posted by: JWx2 | March 11, 2011 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Shouldn't you be off working for Fox? Wonderful propaganda piece there. Too bad your fact checking sucks as bad as your reporting.

Posted by: Nymous | March 11, 2011 10:39 AM | Report abuse

Dateline Madison:
This is complete nonsense- the most heartening thing about the protests at the Capitol has been the very broad swath of people there to be counted among those who oppose the GOP regime. Grandmothers, families with kids in strollers, and a whole bunch of people from all around the state. Students, sure they are in the mix
as Students always will be Madison, but the report below is just flat out misinformation.

BTW- tomorrow at 11:00 AM there will be a tractorcade at the capitol - seditious non-union farm folk in support of the Wisconsin middle class.

Stay Turned- this is FAR from over

the lies start here
====================================


Thank you Senator R. Johnson-Mob Thuggery is so true. I went to Madison last Sat. to observe. Most of the protesters there were students from Univ. What stake do they have in all this. They have been convinced by their professors to go out and do this for them. Don't they realize that helping their professors to be able to bargain for unlimited salaries, benefits of gold, an extra 6,000 per yr. to carry a pager??? Come on-Wake up America. Those students are only hurting themselves. Where is the money going to come from, the taxpayers or by RAISING THEIR TUITIONS. Pretty dumb. I seen them form a peace sign out of their bodys. What does this have to do w/peace. They don't even have a grasp as to why they are there. Their being told what they need to do. I even suspect they are getting paid to do this.

Posted by: mastin | March 11, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Paco33 & I were Duking it out yesterday on Wisc. My last point was that the ball is in the teachers Ct,and they have to decide to stop working for this employer,and find new jobs,or let Walker win without a fight. I assume they won't have the balls to put their Mortgages and car payments on the line,but,if they cave,they may regret it all their lives,not fighting back. This is a power struggle,now between the teachers and the state of Wisconsin. In China,there would be no such struggle. If the teachers do not fight back,there was no need for the Union in any case. The only power a teacher in Wisconsin has,is to "Vote with their feet",and move on to another employer.

Posted by: rcaruth | March 11, 2011 10:40 AM | Report abuse

Perhaps it should be noted that the Chief of the Fire Department in Madison has said that it might be time for a General Strike by all public service employees. Let's see Walker the legislature's favorability ratings when buildings start burning down.

Posted by: jhpurdy | March 11, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse

"Jesus Christ, a REPUBLICAN denouncing 'mob rule'? How ridiculous is that? You scumbags used mob rule to get elected ..."

Darn those mobs voting in elections!

"... to get us into Iraq ..."

I seem to remember the street mobs were anti-war, not pro-war.

"... pass the Patriot act ..."

The Democrat caucus in the Senate voted to pass the original Patriot Act by a margin of 48-1. The Democrat caucus in the House voted to pass the Patriot Act by a margin of 145-62. In 2006, none other than Barack Obama voted to renew the Patriot Act.

"... and legalize torture."

Yes, George Bush and Snidely Whiplash gleefully concocted the legalization of torture over big cigars while twirling their dastardly mustachios and adjusting thier monacles, sipping vintage brandy made from the blood of minority babies. (I heard they even cackled maniacally while doing so.)

Sheesh.

Look, this may be A+ quality commentary on campus, but really, is not the vaunted Washinton Post's readership supposed to consist of actual adults?

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: jhpurdy

It's their time to show that they,the Wisconsin Employees,are not indentured servants. Maybe they feel are. The architects of a variety of Fiscal/Monetary policy have had an effect,(Law of unintended consequences)of creating an economic situation that favors a feeling of indentured servitude. If there is not a substantial amount of job opportunity in the market place,this creates a situation that Employers love,the fact that jobs are scarce. That gives employers the Incentive to push the employees in ways that he couldn't in a good job market. This is the darkside of Republican Economic emotion. Good Job markets favor Liberal politics,bad job markets favor the business community that's actually in business.
Back to Wisc.,the bad job markets make it difficult for the Teachers to "Walk",and Walker is gambling on that.
Reagan gambled in a different way when he fired the Air COntrol Workers. If there had been an accident,his presidency was over. But that is a different situation,the air control people wanted their jobs,they had no "Right" to strike,but the teachers have the right to and should quit.

Posted by: rcaruth | March 11, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

However, back here on Planet Earth, not one of the following statements is objectively true:

"Folks in Wisconsin apparently don't much like their state government employees -- the gov, senators, representives, etc. -- lying to them." - J_B_A

"Jesus Christ, a REPUBLICAN denouncing 'mob rule'? How ridiculous is that? You scumbags used mob rule to get elected, to get us into Iraq, pass the Patriot act and legalize torture." - aartmann112004

"Let's not forget that after the passage of the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act passed, right wing bloggers unleashed a small-scale mimic of Kristallnacht, breaking congressmen's windows all over America." - Members8

"This pantload didn't have any problem with "mob rule" when it was teabagger mobs led by Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Planet Mongo) storming the US Capitol." - Observer691

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

"Let's see Walker the legislature's favorability ratings when buildings start burning down."

Let's see the public sector unions' favorability ratings when buildings start burning down.

Also, is it even legal to for government employees to strike in Wisconsin? States can grant collective bargaining for government employees while still making it illegal to strike.

Put another way, the Chief of the Fire Department may get his parasitic carcass fired if he isn't careful ....

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 11:07 AM | Report abuse

Catatonia/Also, is it even legal to for government employees to strike in Wisconsin? States can grant collective bargaining for government employees while still making it illegal to strike.

It is not legal to strike,but it is legal to quit. Furthermore,it is legal for the state to REHIRE someone that quit. Catch 22,the question here is what is the level of the Teacher's integrity,courage,and sense of the value of their work. The state of Wisc doesn't own employees.

Posted by: rcaruth | March 11, 2011 11:12 AM | Report abuse

rcaruth: As we discussed yesterday, I don't think the public employees in Wisconsin will quit (they are not allowed to strike). They are aware of how well paid they are and the value of the benefits that have already been negotiated. They are well aware that even with this law they enjoy greater "rights" than the federal workers who call Obama their boss. And my guess is that many will be very happy to keep the union dues that had been automatically deducted from their paychecks.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 11:18 AM | Report abuse

Posted by: paco33

I agree that is what they will do*,but the question is who wins and who loses?,and in what context we understand the question of winning and losing. If you're right, the teachers lose,in many ways,they lose economic power&self respect,(they never had any true power except for control over their own sovereign labor which they cede to the state.)
That's the problem with freedom,it ain't free,in this case,they'd be selling their freedom out of fear of economic loss.So let me ask you Paco,were you a teacher in Wisc,would you go back to work monday,or fight back? Do you want to ask me the same question? In China,there would be no choice.

Posted by: rcaruth | March 11, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

What this lame-brained neophyte senator seems to forget is that the "mob rule" he alleges is going on in Wisconsin is nothing more than the PEOPLE (who he is supposed to represent) exercising their Constitutional rights to assembly and to petition the government with their greivances, namely, that the Governor was trying to screw the public sector workers for political gain. And I'm not talking about the death-threat letters from some whack-job. One person sending those kinds of letters to elected officials does not constitute "mob rule and thuggery". If anything, the thugs are Governor Walker and the Republican legislators.

Posted by: fallguy51 | March 11, 2011 11:35 AM | Report abuse

rcaruth: First, I disagree with your premise - I don't think the public workers have lost any "freedom" here and the "economic loss" they will suffer is a consequence of the inherent conflict of interest in their ability to bargain collectively with the very officials they help elect. Public employees should not have the ability (it's not a "right") to bargain collectively - it's why FDR and George Meany rejected it, it's why no state permitted it until 1959 and it's why federal workers have never been given the ability (even when Dems have controlled Congress and the White House).

Interestingly, in all of the posts and comments on this issue over the last 3 weeks, I have yet to see a union supporter rebut the argument that public employees should not be allowed to bargain collectively because of the conflict of interest that gives them wages and benefits that are more generous than those given to most of the taxpayers who pay for all of it.

As for your question about what I would do if I were a teacher - I would be at work on Monday as I would have been throughout this. I am opposed to mandatory union membership, I do not believe that public employees should have unions and, when given the choice, refused to join the union when I worked for the state.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 11:46 AM | Report abuse

A Tea Party candidate is complaining about "mob rule"!?!?!?!

The Wisconsin protests looked EXACTLY like the Tea Party disruptions of the Health Care Reform town halls and their rallies in DC.

It wasnt pretty in Wisconsin but it wansn't any prettier when the Tea Party did it.

Posted by: MarcMyWords | March 11, 2011 11:51 AM | Report abuse

"Perhaps it should be noted that the Chief of the Fire Department in Madison has said that it might be time for a General Strike by all public service employees. Let's see Walker the legislature's favorability ratings when buildings start burning down.

Posted by: jhpurdy | March 11, 2011 10:46 AM | Report abuse"

Yeah, that certainly is the adult way to handle seeing legislation passed that you disagree with. Oh, I get it, you must be a teabagger because threats and violence only come from the right. You and your fellow teabaggers were the ones who broke into the Capitol building, physically harrassed the legislators trying to get in to vote and had to be hauled out by the police.

Just remember, the Republicans now have full rights to fleebag to a neighboring state to prevent votes and bus in protestors to overrun the Capitol the next time there is any legislation not to their liking. If you call them anything less than heroes helping us to see "what democracy looks like", your rank hypocrisy will stink to high heaven.

Posted by: inmypajamas | March 11, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

The liberal left want a civil war....that is clear

The right will not fire the first shot

But, as with the last Civil War...when the Democrats fire the first shot.....

They will lose.....

...but unlike the Civil War of the 1860s ....there will be no live democrats afterward.

Hate to see it, democrats did it before though.....

Posted by: georgedixon1 | March 11, 2011 12:07 PM | Report abuse

"... exercising their Constitutional rights to assembly and to petition the government with their greivances ..."

You forgot the "peaceably assemble" part of the right to assembly.

I'm not sure if defecating in lobbies, locking doors, threatening legislators with violence, and breaking and entering, amongst other juvenile actings out, can really be considered "peaceable".

Also, the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances does not mean your grievances will be rectified automatically just because you petitioned for redress (or banged on a drum for few days).

Wisconsin's capitol is not a university campus, and 2011 isn't 1971.

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Anyone calling the protests in Madison "mob rule and thuggery" should be removed from office. Johnson as usual demonstrates nothing beyond his ability to parrot party propaganda in the first couple of months of his reign. I've never heard a novel utterance from him, I don't think he's capable of original thought, he is a serviceable party lackey, and can thank Obamacare for his election. This is the fruit of a negative vote. Good luck, U.S.

Posted by: minogaade | March 11, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

A Tea Party candidate is complaining about "mob rule"!?!?!?!

The Wisconsin protests looked EXACTLY like the Tea Party disruptions of the Health Care Reform town halls and their rallies in DC.

It wasnt pretty in Wisconsin but it wansn't any prettier when the Tea Party did it.

Posted by: MarcMyWords | March 11, 2011 11:51 AM
--------------

Outside of the fact that no large scale gathering of Tea Party members occupied Congress for 3 weeks, delayed House members from entering the chamber, displayed a multitude of signs likening Obama, Pelosi or Reid to Hitler, occupied the site of a health care Town Hall or physically threatened a Member of Congress or supporters of the health care bill, the two are EXACTLY alike.

Then again, since the MSM refuses to cover the actions of the union supporters in Madison and creates the myth of Tea Party misbehavior, I can understand your misperception.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 12:11 PM | Report abuse

member8 wrote, "Walker and Koch are just trying not to let a crisis go to waste; they're trying to change the course of history."

Keep trying to sell that story. The Kochs gave $43K to Walker's reelection campaign. (Comparatively, they gave $20M to the ACLU.)

Unions spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in Wisconsin. If the Kochs can trump their message with a measly $43K contribution, the the unions are more impotent than I thought.

Posted by: dagwinn | March 11, 2011 12:12 PM | Report abuse

I think what's got the left (and unions) really worried is that mandatory, automatic union dues deductions will no longer be taking place. Let me translate: The unions will lose power because a significant number of current unionized workers - when given free choice between sending their money off to union headquarters to pay dues or keeping it - will chose the latter. The left will lose power because their politicians of choice - Democrats - will be receiving diminished campaign contributions from union coffers.

A lot of commentary on this blog post so far has been blaming the Republicans, but free choice will really be the destructive force. I think the old quote from the Pogo comic strip applies: "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Posted by: coffeetime | March 11, 2011 12:12 PM | Report abuse

There have literally been hundreds of thousands of orderly, peaceful demonstrators in Madison in the last 3 weeks -- and perhaps a few insane emails from some lunatics. What has been happening is a true grassroots expession from the people of Wisconsin, exercising their First Amendment rights. To dismiss that as mob rule discredits Johnson, not the protests. He welcomed Tea Party protests; these are 10 times their size in Wisconsin.

Posted by: xofferson | March 11, 2011 12:18 PM | Report abuse

But, xofferson, the Tea Party protests didn't involve occupying the capitol building rotunda, using hand cuffs to lock doors and restrict access, or purposefully blocking doors and hallways to prevent ELECTED legislators from voting on things they were ELECTED to do.

There may have be hundreds of thousands of "orderly, peaceful demonstrators," but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a mob trying to use force and intimidation to get the legislators to bend to their will.

Posted by: dagwinn | March 11, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

Liberal Democrats have a "heads I win, tails you lose" vision of democracy. When they have the votes, they'll pass whatever they please, even if they have to ram it through using reconciliation. When they don't have the votes, they send in the mobs and shut down the legislature. This is the kind of thuggery that follows naturally from those who have uncritically indoctrinated themselves into their own self-righteousness, to the point where they even define their philosophy as "progress". This should act as a warning to all fair-minded people, not to engage in such self-deception.

Posted by: pijacobsen | March 11, 2011 12:50 PM | Report abuse

Union workers = lazy, entitled, do nothing, know nothing slobs.

Posted by: j751 | March 11, 2011 12:57 PM | Report abuse

Johnson, you are an embarrassment. These are Wisconsin citizens, the people you're supposed to represent, that you're lying about. There was no "mob rule" or "thuggery" in the protests. You've obviously not been paying any attention to your home state's media coverage over the last couple of weeks.

One violent email that could've been written by anyone is meaningless compared to the tens of thousands that assembled peacefully.

I repeat, you are an embarrassment to Wisconsin.

Posted by: cbarndorfer | March 11, 2011 1:00 PM | Report abuse

paco33 posted: However, back here on Planet Earth, not one of the following statements is objectively true:
"Folks in Wisconsin apparently don't much like their state government employees -- the gov, senators, representives, etc. -- lying to them." - J_B_A
________________________

Facts are the kinds of things that Fox News viewers seldom, if ever, know.

Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that his union-busting bill is a “budget-related.” This lie has, of course, been revealed by the extraction of the union-busting portion from the original bill in order to pass it in the absence of the Wisconsin 14.

Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that he campaigned on a platform that included union-busting. This lie is revealed by a garden variety Google search, as well as the words of Walker himself to the phony David Koch during the phone call in which Walker was punked.

Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that union-busting is necessary in order to salvage the financial health of the State of Wisconsin. This lie is revealed by the tax cuts for corporations, as well as Walker’s special treatment of unions that supported his election.

Fact: Scott Walker has repeated claimed that union-busting is necessary in order to save jobs. This lie is so fatuous that not even moronic Fox News viewers could be persuaded to believe it (or could they?).

In short, Scott Walker is a liar, as Wisconsin voters are now very much aware.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 1:14 PM | Report abuse

Paco,If they don't fight the state action,they'll have a long time to figure out how well teaching for the state of Wisconsin is working out for them. I would find another employer. I've never worked for the Government,but I have left jobs to find better ones. In my opinion,if the Government and the parents don't like the job the teachers are doing,it's time to move on.
Bottom Line,the only way to gain the respect and undivided attention of the Government and the parents is to stop work,and let them figure out what to do on Monday.

Posted by: rcaruth | March 11, 2011 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Outside of the fact that no large scale gathering of Tea Party members occupied Congress for 3 weeks, delayed House members from entering the chamber, displayed a multitude of signs likening Obama, Pelosi or Reid to Hitler, occupied the site of a health care Town Hall or physically threatened a Member of Congress or supporters of the health care bill, the two are EXACTLY alike.
*****************************
Oh my God! House members in Wisconsin were delayed from entering the House chamber! Well I know I just fainted dead away from the horrors of hearing about that. /end sarcasm

As for the rest, there were Tea Party members who acted badly during the Health Care debate. There were threats against members of Congress (try doing a Google search Paco33), there were members who brandished Hitler signs (again do a Google search), etc. Or how about Tea Party members who showed up to town halls armed with weapons? Does that count as making a threat, because I know I would feel threatened if I was attending or giving an event and a bunch of people randomly showed up with sidearms. This is not to say that all Tea Party members behaved this way, or that the actions of a few necessarily reflect the actions of the many.

In terms of occupying the US Capitol, I figured that didn't happen because security precautions in DC made that impossible.

Though I'm sure Paco33 stands by ready to further parse the two events to show how horrible the crowds in Madison were as opposed to the noble protestors in DC.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 1:36 PM | Report abuse

J_B_A
>>Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that his union-busting bill is a “budget-related.” This lie has, of course, been revealed by the extraction of the union-busting portion from the original bill in order to pass it in the absence of the Wisconsin 14.

But that's not a fact. That's not what happened. The collective bargaining piece was not taken out. The only pieces taken out concerned "appropriations" - the only type of provision that requires a supermajority. The rest of the bill - collective bargaining, increased pension and health care payments, yearly reauthorization, non-compulsory union memebrship -- all remained.

But this is the kind of fact those who only listen to the MSM seldom if ever know.

>>Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that he campaigned on a platform that included union-busting.

Now I know this is going to be confusing but I'm actually going to do something here you have no experience with and may not understand: you're somewhat right about this one. He never included limiting collective bargaining provisions in his platform (the "union busting" is your spin and is not factual and could also be considered a "lie").

>>Fact: Scott Walker has repeatedly stated that union-busting is necessary in order to salvage the financial health of the State of Wisconsin. This lie is revealed by the tax cuts for corporations, as well as Walker’s special treatment of unions that supported his election.

He never stated that "union busting" is necessary. It is only your opinion and not a fact that the tax cuts conflict with his attempts to cut spending by limiting collective bargaining (I share his opinion that cutting these taxes will result in more jobs -- that's an opinion, not a fact).And I think it's 3 small police unions that supported him and got the waiver while every other police union, including the biggest ones, endorsed his opponent.


>>Fact: Scott Walker has repeated claimed that union-busting is necessary in order to save jobs.

Again, he has never claimed that he is union busting And it is obvious that requiring union members to pay more for their benefits (and still less than private sector workers) and ending the conflict of interest that allowed public unions to "negotiate" with officials they help elect will temper future costs and eliminate the need to fire workers in order to cut costs.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Again, he has never claimed that he is union busting And it is obvious that requiring union members to pay more for their benefits (and still less than private sector workers) and ending the conflict of interest that allowed public unions to "negotiate" with officials they help elect will temper future costs and eliminate the need to fire workers in order to cut costs.
*********************************
I'd think you'd have to be almost painfully naive to think that the law that was just passed was not meant to "bust" the unions. Walker may not have specifically said that was his plan, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the point of the law.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Your parsing is pathetic. Of course Walker does not use the term "union busting" -- except perhaps in conferences with the Kochs. And you obviously confirmed the fist lie I referenced.

Whatever may be the case with you, Wisconsinites are not fools.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I'd think you'd have to be almost painfully naive to think that the law that was just passed was not meant to "bust" the unions. Walker may not have specifically said that was his plan, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the point of the law.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 1:52 PM
-----------------------
And I think you're the one who is "painfully naive" if you think that giving public workers more collective bargaining "rights" than those given to ALL federal employees has anything to do with "busting" a union. And if it is "union busting", how come "unbusting" the federal unions has never been an issue under a Dem administration and/or Congress?

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 1:56 PM | Report abuse

J_B_A: That's it!? That's your response? LOL. Well, if I were wrong about 4 of the 5 "facts" I claimed, I'd be reluctant to respond as well.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 2:00 PM | Report abuse

My post stand unrefuted by anything except your liberal use of the ad hoc hypothesis fallacy.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

And I think you're the one who is "painfully naive" if you think that giving public workers more collective bargaining "rights" than those given to ALL federal employees has anything to do with "busting" a union. And if it is "union busting", how come "unbusting" the federal unions has never been an issue under a Dem administration and/or Congress?
*****************************
All I can say is you must truly be naive. The law in Wisconsin is meant to "bust" the unions by taking away negotiating rights they were previously granted under state law, and by making it more difficult for the unions to operate in general. You've insisted that isn't the purpose, but you've offered nothing to support your insistence.

Rather, you make non-related arguments about how federal workers have fewer rights in certain areas, as though that has anything to do with the purpose behind the newly passed Wisconsin law.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Oh my God! House members in Wisconsin were delayed from entering the House chamber! Well I know I just fainted dead away from the horrors of hearing about that. /end sarcasm

As for the rest, there were Tea Party members who acted badly during the Health Care debate. There were threats against members of Congress (try doing a Google search Paco33), there were members who brandished Hitler signs (again do a Google search), etc. Or how about Tea Party members who showed up to town halls armed with weapons? Does that count as making a threat, because I know I would feel threatened if I was attending or giving an event and a bunch of people randomly showed up with sidearms. This is not to say that all Tea Party members behaved this way, or that the actions of a few necessarily reflect the actions of the many.
Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 1:36 PM
----------
Preventing elected representatives from entering a legislative chamber to vote is the action of an anti-democratic mob. And if the Tea Party had acted in anything close to this manner, it would have been criticized by me, Ms. Rubin, other blog readers here, and a good segment of the right. Oh, and at least one Republican senator was physically confronted by demonstrators inside the Capitol.

Were there threats (confirmed) to officials by alleged Tea Party members/supporters objecting to the health care bill? Unfortunately, it appears that there were some. But I will supply you with at least 5 examples of threats from the left for every one from the right you supply. Same with objectionable signs where I will show you 2 from just the last few weeks for every one you show over the past 2 years.

Here's a statement I don't see from you or anyone else from the left -- such behavior is wrong and should be condemned and is not excused by others doing the same.

And it was more than security that kept Tea Party members from occupying the US Capitol for 3 weeks -- respect for the building and the democratic process.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 2:17 PM | Report abuse

It's been a month now and I'm still waiting for one of you oh-so brilliant Leftists to explain to us all how Dick Cheney's energy commission was the height of corruption but public-sector unions "negotiating" their contracts with politicians they put into office isn't.

Also, still waiting for one of you oh-so brilliant Leftists to explain to us all why Wisconsin public-sector workers have a RIGHT to collective bargaining but federal public-sector workers don't...as can be deduced by the complete and utter lack of Leftists leeches picketing out front of the White House or Congress. What are you all waiting for?

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 2:21 PM | Report abuse

Were there threats (confirmed) to officials by alleged Tea Party members/supporters objecting to the health care bill? Unfortunately, it appears that there were some. But I will supply you with at least 5 examples of threats from the left for every one from the right you supply. Same with objectionable signs where I will show you 2 from just the last few weeks for every one you show over the past 2 years.
************************
What's your point? That you have a lot of time on your hands?

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 2:25 PM | Report abuse

The law in Wisconsin is meant to "bust" the unions by taking away negotiating rights they were previously granted under state law, and by making it more difficult for the unions to operate in general. You've insisted that isn't the purpose, but you've offered nothing to support your insistence.

Rather, you make non-related arguments about how federal workers have fewer rights in certain areas, as though that has anything to do with the purpose behind the newly passed Wisconsin law.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 2:10 PM
-----------

First, the clear intent of the law is to make it more difficult for the union to operate as it has. That is a far cry from trying to "bust" the union. As I have said repeatedly (without response from you or anyone other union supporters here), the purpose is to end the inherent conflict of interest that has allowed public unions to negotiate with the officials whom they help elect - contrary to the interests of the taxpayers.

Second, the fact that federal employees possess fewer collective bargaining "rights' than the Wisconsin workers even after this law has nothing to do with the "purpose" of the law, as you say I claim, but with its characterization as "union busting" - a point you conveniently ignore.

Sort of like how you ignored my showing you yesterday the authority for my statement that the Dem senators who fled the state were violating state rules - in contrast to the GOP's use of the filibuster in the US Senate.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 2:31 PM | Report abuse

Sort of like how you ignored my showing you yesterday the authority for my statement that the Dem senators who fled the state were violating state rules - in contrast to the GOP's use of the filibuster in the US Senate.
***************************
I just never looked back at that particular column again after I had posted. It happens sometimes. But it's kind of funny you cared enough to think I was purposefully ignorning you.

**************************
First, the clear intent of the law is to make it more difficult for the union to operate as it has. That is a far cry from trying to "bust" the union. As I have said repeatedly (without response from you or anyone other union supporters here), the purpose is to end the inherent conflict of interest that has allowed public unions to negotiate with the officials whom they help elect - contrary to the interests of the taxpayers.
**************************
That may be the purpose you've convinced yourself of in your own head. Though what does forcing union members to have to recertify their union each year have to do with ending a conflict of interest in negotiations?


Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 2:49 PM | Report abuse

"What's your point? That you have a lot of time on your hands?"

You could cut the irony in this statement with a knife.

(Don't worry -- it would be a Fair Trade knife, of course, made from recycled metal ....)

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"I'd certainly want to be 'interviewed' by someone who uncritically reports what I say, while at the same time lavishing praise on me."

That privilege is reserved for Democrats.

Posted by: jimtreacher | March 11, 2011 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"This pantload didn't have any problem with 'mob rule' when it was teabagger mobs led by Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Planet Mongo) storming the US Capitol."

Yeah, remember when they broke into the building? Oh wait, that never happened.

Posted by: jimtreacher | March 11, 2011 3:00 PM | Report abuse

"The Wisconsin protests looked EXACTLY like the Tea Party disruptions of the Health Care Reform town halls and their rallies in DC."

Right, like when they broke into those buildings. Which never happened.

Posted by: jimtreacher | March 11, 2011 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Wow, this coming from another Koch brother bought and paid for politician. Ron Johnson is a baffoon whose only accomplishment was to marry the daughter of a billionaire who set him up in business and made sure he didn't fail by becoming his best customer. Not one newspaper in Wisconsin endorsed him. The Koch brothers money and the "what difference does it make" attitude of Wisconsin voters who stayed home, put him in office.
This is also a man who testified to protect Catholic Priest pedophiles against their victims for God's or Satan's sake.
Listen to Scott Walker's prank phone call when he thought he was talking to his owner David Koch. Ron Johnson uses the word 'thuggery' to describe protesters? That's rich since Scotty admitted to talking with other "lawmakers" about sending trouble makers into crowds made up of babies, children, the elderly, disabled and his neighbors. Maybe Ron thinks this is o.k. because he was one of those sitting around discussing this option...I wouldn't doubt it.
This had nothing to do with the budget, it was all about union busting...it's very clear to everyone at this point. Even our Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald admitted it on Fox News. He said that by busting the unions, Obama wouldn't have the support to win Wisconsin again in 2012.
Also keep in mind to all those commenting who don't live in Wisconsin, especially Jennifer Rubin, this budget "repair" bill devastates almost everything and everyone in our state. That's been missed by the media. It literally attacks schools, children, women, seniors, Medicaid, the disabled, the poor and middle class needing some extra help.
But, on the bright side, Ronny and his in-laws will probably get a few more tax cuts and Scotty always has the Koch brothers to fund his way.
If you don't think Scott Walker and his Republican cronies won't be recalled, you would be wrong. And the emails threatening all their lives, please. Everything that has come out of Walker's and Fitzgerald's mouths has been lies from the very beginning of this fiasco. No one believes them. The Koch brothers probably paid Joe the Plumber to write the emails or Scotty wrote them himself.

Posted by: Woody13 | March 11, 2011 3:09 PM | Report abuse

"A Tea Party candidate is complaining about "mob rule"!?!?!?!

The Wisconsin protests looked EXACTLY like the Tea Party disruptions of the Health Care Reform town halls and their rallies in DC.

It wasnt pretty in Wisconsin but it wansn't any prettier when the Tea Party did it.

Posted by: MarcMyWord"

Exactly like the Tea Party demonstrations? Unless you can find me video or audio evidence of Tea Partiers demonstrating outside the homes of elected officials, camping out in statehouses for weeks on end, shoving, assaulting, and threatening protesters with opposing viewpoints, comparing Democrats to Hitler, Mussolini, Mubarek, and Qaddafi(and no, the left-wing Lyndon LaRouche folks with the Hitler mustache posters DO NOT count), encouraging politicians on their side to skip town in order to halt the democratic process, and sending e-mailed and handwritten death threats to elected officials, then spare me your moral equivalence.

The best the left could do during the entire Obamacare debate was fabricate the whole "N-word" episode on Capitol Hill which still over a year later not a single individual can authenticate with video footage. This despite an outstanding reward of 100 grand offered by Andrew Breitbart and hundreds(if not thousands) of cameras present that day.

Posted by: Adam_ME | March 11, 2011 3:10 PM | Report abuse

This pantload didn't have any problem with "mob rule" when it was teabagger mobs led by Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Planet Mongo) storming the US Capitol


Stormed the US Capitol?How did they get in, break windows? Did they chip the marble? Put tape to the walls with posters? Where were the sleeping bags and free pizza?

And the trash?

What a silly comment.

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 3:12 PM | Report abuse

That may be the purpose you've convinced yourself of in your own head. Though what does forcing union members to have to recertify their union each year have to do with ending a conflict of interest in negotiations?

Power to the people?

And the union taking away an individual's right to a secret ballot is what?

Democracy in action?

Or because they belong to a union, which may be manditory to work, they're supposed to give up that right?

So, AFAIC, goose/gander.

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 3:17 PM | Report abuse

The law in Wisconsin is meant to "bust" the unions by taking away negotiating rights they were previously granted under state law,


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


I'm granted a lot under The Constitution and the ruling class doesn't have a problem taking away those rights........or putting up a lot of roadblocks, why should the union be treated any differently?

Why R they special?

There seemed to be enuf Communication Workers of America members w/the proper training to collect the dues.

No reason the gov't should be the middleman between the union and their members.

Posted by: gopthestupidparty | March 11, 2011 3:21 PM | Report abuse

The best the left could do during the entire Obamacare debate was fabricate the whole "N-word" episode on Capitol Hill which still over a year later not a single individual can authenticate with video footage. This despite an outstanding reward of 100 grand offered by Andrew Breitbart and hundreds(if not thousands) of cameras present that day.
************************
I didn't realize the only way an event could happen is if the event was filmed.

My niece is going to be so excited to know she'll get a second birthday party because we didn't film her party as it was going on. So by the prior poster's logic, we can't prove to her it happened, even though we were there and told her it happened!

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 3:22 PM | Report abuse

I'm granted a lot under The Constitution and the ruling class doesn't have a problem taking away those rights........or putting up a lot of roadblocks, why should the union be treated any differently?
****************************
So rather than questioning why you should be treated more poorly than others and looking to improve your situation, your solution is that everyone should be treated poorly.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Good to see the leftoids are still out in force and fundamentally disconnected from the reality of this situation.

The "law" that will be enacted still allows the unions to bargain over wages. It limits raises to cost-of-living. The just can't bargain over benefits (health, retirement, tuition, etc).

The kicker and the REAL issue the unions and the Dims are flipping out over are two other parts of this bill. 1.) the state gets out of the business of collecting dues from all the unionized state workers. The employess keep that money and the unions have to chase (as in bill them) for those dues. The leakage (money the unions/Dims don't get) will probably be close to 50% of what they used to collect (boo, hoo, hoo). 2.) each year each employee covered by a union collective bargaining agreement gets to decide if they want to continue to be covered by that agreement. Again, potential loss of union/Dim dues money.

There, my friends, lie the real issues here. My guess is 80% of goofballs "protesting" don't understand any of that and are merely chanting ranks about "the middle class", "worker's rights are human rights" and other nonsense.

And what's up with cops not enforcing court orders to keep the capitol clear of this riff-raff?

Posted by: LeftCoastRightBrain | March 11, 2011 3:28 PM | Report abuse

What is the most scary aspect of this mob rule is that these blood thirsty, violent, foaming-at-the-mouth thugs are in the same classroom as our children. These parasites actually have access to the private information of the citizens of Wisconsin. These left-wing extremist are using rhetoric, threats, and violence along with their union bosses.

Posted by: Cornell1984 | March 11, 2011 3:32 PM | Report abuse

Nice report no your convo with Sen. Johnson, I appreciate it.

You know, all my life democrats were 'my people,' until I started to notice about 10 years ago our nation's serious, deadly fiscal situation and how 'my people' just couldn't seem to come to grips with it in any way, at all. I kept waiting for 'my people' to begin to address it after the next election and the next one. Nuthin.

Well my people are all the American people, and I will back each and every candidate who is serious about our fiscal situation, and work against the candidates who are manifestly not. At every level.

Posted by: restons | March 11, 2011 3:37 PM | Report abuse

restons,
You mean 10 years ago when the Bush administration starting running us into the ground?

Posted by: Woody13 | March 11, 2011 3:44 PM | Report abuse

"Wow, this coming from another Koch brother bought and paid for politician."

I'll see your Koch and raise you a Soros.

"Ron Johnson is a baffoon [sic] ...."

Heh.

"Not one newspaper in Wisconsin endorsed him."

And yet he still won. It's almost as if the newspaper editorial boards were a bit disconnected from the electorate. I wonder why that is? I wonder why newspapers are losing viewership? What could POSSIBLY be the reason?

"He said that by busting the unions, Obama wouldn't have the support to win Wisconsin again in 2012."

It's unfortunate, then, that the public sector unions weren't actually busted. Dang.

"That's rich since Scotty admitted to talking with other "lawmakers" about sending trouble makers into crowds made up of babies, children, the elderly, disabled and his neighbors."

Drama. Queen. (Also: Don't forget about the gay and transgendered. What about them?)

"... this budget "repair" bill devastates almost everything and everyone in our state."

Drama. Queen. (Also: Don't forget the cute little fuzzy bunnies and other adorable critters. What about them?)

"... this budget "repair" bill ... literally attacks schools, children, women, seniors, Medicaid, the disabled, the poor and middle class needing some extra help."

Drama. Queen. (Also: How can a bill 'literally' attack inanimate objects like a school and animates like people at the same time? Did the bill take tae kwon do classes or something? And were the teachers of those classes unionized?)

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 3:46 PM | Report abuse

"I didn't realize the only way an event could happen is if the event was filmed.

My niece is going to be so excited to know she'll get a second birthday party because we didn't film her party as it was going on. So by the prior poster's logic, we can't prove to her it happened, even though we were there and told her it happened!

Posted by: mustangs79"

If people allege they were called the n-word(including one Congressman who claimed it was shouted at him 15 times) and hundreds of cameras were around, yet over a year later not a single frame of footage has surfaced anywhere, not on YouTube, the blogosphere, MSDNC, CNN, or the alphabet networks, then I don't think it's a stretch to say that just maybe the Democrat Congressmen weren't telling the truth about what did(or more importantly didn't) happen that afternoon.

I know it's a stunning accusation. That a bunch of politicians lied. Try to wrap your head around that one. Especially members of the Congressional Black Caucus. I mean we all know they're the most honorable upstanding public servants in our government. Just ask Charlie Rangel, Maxine Waters, Jesse Jackson, Jr., and Eddie Bernice Johnson, all of whom have been either accused of and/or investigated over corruption charges within the last couple years. Not to mention William "Cold Cash" Jefferson who was sentenced to 13 years for bribery charges.

Posted by: Adam_ME | March 11, 2011 3:51 PM | Report abuse

Catalonia,
Is that all you got? I don't make it a habit to argue with the ignorant, and you don't even make it up to that level. George Soros?...what is this I give you 500 billionaires and you raise me one. You should change your name to Cantalope because you're about as challenging.

Posted by: Woody13 | March 11, 2011 3:57 PM | Report abuse

Be careful Jennifer Rubin. You don't want to anger those peaceful Democrats. They like to issue death threats to people they disagree with and even threaten entire families, even infants. And they like to show up at people's houses and bang on the windows, scaring the children.

What was that Obama was just preaching about yesterday? Bullying? Odd that he found time to talk about his giant ears, but failed to mention Democrat thuggery, intimidation and raging mobs, especially since his OFA was responsible for most of it.

Posted by: OxyCon | March 11, 2011 4:06 PM | Report abuse

"... what is this I give you 500 billionaires and you raise me one."

There are 500 Koch brothers?

Wow. I didn't know they were mormons ....

"You should change your name to Cantalope because you're about as challenging."

Don't forget the kumquats and organic free-range blackberries. What about them?

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 4:10 PM | Report abuse

"'... what is this I give you 500 billionaires and you raise me one.'

There are 500 Koch brothers?

Wow. I didn't know they were mormons ....

Posted by: Catalonia | March 11, 2011 4:10 PM"

There are only around 1100 billionaires in the entire world. Apparently Woody13 believes that nearly half of them are bankrolling the Republican Party even though most of them live overseas.

BTW, Woody. The Koch brothers donated 43 grand to Walker's campaign last year. They also gave a million to the Republican Governor's Association(RGA) but it's hard to know how much(if any) of that benefited Walker directly. You know how much the unions spent in 2010? $400 million. And almost every penny of that went to the Democrats.

Posted by: Adam_ME | March 11, 2011 4:23 PM | Report abuse

[BTW, Woody. The Koch brothers donated 43 grand to Walker's campaign last year. They also gave a million to the Republican Governor's Association(RGA) but it's hard to know how much(if any) of that benefited Walker directly.]

And all of it paid for out of their own pockets.

[You know how much the unions spent in 2010? $400 million. And almost every penny of that went to the Democrats.]

And all of it paid for out of taxpayer pockets.

Tell us, Woody13, why is it wrong for the Koch Brothers to donate to Republicans but it's ok for unions to donate to Democrats?

And considering how much esteem you place upon your own intellect per your snide comments to Catalonia, perhaps you can do me a favor and answer a couple of simple questions I've been asking of you Leftists for a few weeks now.

1) Explain to us all how Dick Cheney's energy commission was the height of corruption but public-sector unions "negotiating" their contracts with politicians they put into office isn't.

2) Explain to us all why you Leftists are in such an uproar about Wisconsin's public-sector workers collective bargaining "rights" but you haven't got a word to say about the fact that federal public-sector workers are being denied their "rights". Where are the protests in front of Obama's house, Woody13? Where are the death threats against Harry Reid, Woody13?

What are you all waiting for?

Let's see that big intellect in action, Woody13...or are you just another intellectually void, cowardly Leftist blowhard?

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 4:45 PM | Report abuse

Let's see: the public worker unions negotiate with other government officials to set their salaries and benefits. Then they use union dues to assist the election campaigns of government officials so that their next negotiations will be even easier. And if, by chance, their chosen government officials lose, the public workers unions invade the capitol and close down the legislature, demanding things be left just as they are.

Seems fair to me. The only ones who get screwed are the nonunion taxpayers.

Posted by: dmlpearl | March 11, 2011 4:54 PM | Report abuse

"Ron Johnson is a baffoon [sic] ...."

Of course what they meant to say is he's a bubboon, right?

Posted by: aardunza | March 11, 2011 5:07 PM | Report abuse

rvastar posted: Tell us, Woody13, why is it wrong for the Koch Brothers to donate to Republicans but it's ok for unions to donate to Democrats?
__

Obviously there is nothing “wrong” – morally speaking – about the Koch brothers’ contributions to Republicans, unless, of course, you regard the Koch brothers to be accessories to the immoral conduct of Scott Walker and his posse. I speak of course of the stream of lies Walker and his posse have fed Wisconsinites, and which have now been revealed for what they are. But that is a pretty tenuous theory on which to pass a moral judgment against the Kochs in regard to the mere act of contributing money to Republicans.

There is of course plenty of immorality in other Koch actions – such as actively and knowingly funding pseudo-scientific attacks intended to perpetrate lies about global climate change, and otherwise inducing people to act against their interests on false pretenses. But that is another story.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Tell us, Woody13, why is it wrong for the Koch Brothers to donate to Republicans but it's ok for unions to donate to Democrats?

And considering how much esteem you place upon your own intellect per your snide comments to Catalonia, perhaps you can do me a favor and answer a couple of simple questions I've been asking of you Leftists for a few weeks now....

Let's see that big intellect in action, Woody13...or are you just another intellectually void, cowardly Leftist blowhard?

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 4:45 PM
-------------

Don't hold your breath rvastar. As you've probably noticed the lefties around here tend not to provide any support for their views or the fictional "facts" they believe. And they tend to refuse to answer reasonable questions or respond to information that challenges their views or their "facts" in any way. As you can tell by their general shrill, nasty and snide tone, they try to compensate with noise and bluster what they are missing in rationality and intellect.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 6:14 PM | Report abuse

1) Explain to us all how Dick Cheney's energy commission was the height of corruption but public-sector unions "negotiating" their contracts with politicians they put into office isn't.
2) Explain to us all why you Leftists are in such an uproar about Wisconsin's public-sector workers collective bargaining "rights" but you haven't got a word to say about the fact that federal public-sector workers are being denied their "rights". Where are the protests in front of Obama's house, Woody13? Where are the death threats against Harry Reid, Woody13?
___________

You have to be conversant in the English language in order to understand how the word “corruption” applies to transactions in which government officials receive private gain as a result of exercising ostensibly governmental authority. Your question 1 casts into doubt your facility with the English language.

You have to understand the basics of logic in order to understand the concepts known as “the false alternatives fallacy” and “the equivocation fallacy” – both of which figure prominently in your question 2. The statutory “right” Scott Walker has snatched from some Wisconsin state employees (under false pretenses) is not enjoyed by federal workers because an analogous federal statute has never been enacted.

I don’t expect you to comprehend any of the foregoing, but it is the best I can do for you.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Thank You Gov. Walker-You are doing what you campaigned on and what we voted you in for. To bad their are so many sore losers.
In the words of Obama WE WON-DEAL W/IT!

Posted by: cras | March 11, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Thank You Gov. Walker-You are doing what you campaigned on and what we voted you in for. To bad there are so many sore losers.
In the words of Obama WE WON-DEAL W/IT!

Posted by: cras | March 11, 2011 6:39 PM | Report abuse

[I speak of course of the stream of lies Walker and his posse have fed Wisconsinites, and which have now been revealed for what they are.]

I must have missed that "steam of lies". Why don't you rattle them off for us?

[There is of course plenty of immorality in other Koch actions – such as actively and knowingly funding pseudo-scientific attacks intended to perpetrate lies about global climate change, and otherwise inducing people to act against their interests on false pretenses. But that is another story.]

And as soon as you point us to ONE critical sentence you've posted anywhere on the net regarding the abject fraud that was revealed in ClimateGate, I'll be happy to take your "tsk-tsk" seriously.

[You have to be conversant in the English language in order to understand how the word “corruption” applies to transactions in which government officials receive private gain as a result of exercising ostensibly governmental authority. Your question 1 casts into doubt your facility with the English language.]

Kinda like the "private gain" Democrat politicians get by asking "How high?" when their union ATMs tell them to jump? Or is getting to be a politician not "private gain" somehow?

Oh...and would you care to provide us with your evidence of the private gain Cheney received? And note that I said "evidence", not citations of the ever-elusive "everybody knows" and "it's common knowledge" database that you Lefties love so much.

[You have to understand the basics of logic in order to understand the concepts known as “the false alternatives fallacy” and “the equivocation fallacy” – both of which figure prominently in your question 2. The statutory “right” Scott Walker has snatched from some Wisconsin state employees (under false pretenses) is not enjoyed by federal workers because an analogous federal statute has never been enacted.]

Maybe you should study the concepts known as "irony" and "duh". Perhaps then you'd see that my point is that you Leftists are only interested in howling about "fairness" and "rights" when you're trying to bludgeon Republicans...or did I miss the announcement about the big rallies that are planned outside the White House and the Senate this weekend where you oh-so-concerned Lefties will DEMAND that federal workers also get their "rights" to collective bargaining? Could you tell us all at what time those rallies are kicking off?

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 8:26 PM | Report abuse

And, JAB...while you're looking up the times for the big union rights rallies in DC this weekend, could you also let us all know what time the "Obama lied to us through his teeth about closing Gitmo" protests are kicking off?

Thanks a million!

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 8:31 PM | Report abuse

Oh, one more thing, JAB...you got any info on the date for the next big round of national protests you Lefties are planning in order to let that warmonger Obama know how you feel about his warmongering in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Can't...seem to find...anything...

Thanks a bunch!

Posted by: rvastar | March 11, 2011 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Perhaps then you'd see that my point is that you Leftists are only interested in howling about "fairness" and "rights" when you're trying to bludgeon Republicans...or did I miss the announcement about the big rallies that are planned outside the White House and the Senate this weekend where you oh-so-concerned Lefties will DEMAND that federal workers also get their "rights" to collective bargaining? Could you tell us all at what time those rallies are kicking off?
***************************
I honestly think you are confusing two separate issues. In Wisconsin, rights that were previously granted to workers were taken away. That is why people there were so upset, just as I am sure you would be upset if a right you believed was important was then revoked by the legislature.

In terms of federal workers, they didn't have the same rights that the workers in Wisconsin had, and the rights they do have are not threatened. So I don't really understand why you think they should have a Wisconsin-style protest to demand more rights when that issue isn't even on the table.

It sounds like you just want to insist the situations are the same so you can make your point, but they really aren't, so your point kind of fails.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 8:45 PM | Report abuse

I listed some of the more dramatic examples of Walker's lies in a prior post. If you care to look, you will see that Paco33 made a lame attempt to defend Walker on the grounds that he didn't actually use the words "union busting."

The remainder of your post is incoherent to the point of incomprehensibility.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 9:25 PM | Report abuse

I honestly think you are confusing two separate issues. In Wisconsin, rights that were previously granted to workers were taken away. That is why people there were so upset....

In terms of federal workers, they didn't have the same rights that the workers in Wisconsin had, and the rights they do have are not threatened. So I don't really understand why you think they should have a Wisconsin-style protest to demand more rights when that issue isn't even on the table.

It sounds like you just want to insist the situations are the same so you can make your point, but they really aren't, so your point kind of fails.

Posted by: mustangs79 | March 11, 2011 8:45 PM
---------------
Ok, let's try it this way. First, collective bargaining isn't a "right". A "right" is something so fundamental and basic that a government - no government - is capable of granting it or taking it away. This is why Jefferson and the Founders spoke of "unalienable rights" that the "Creator" endows to all men. Wisconsin's public employees are able to engage in collective bargaining for one reason - they were granted that ability by an act of the Legislature in 1959. And if the Legislature can give it to them, it follows that the Legislature can remove it or, in the case, here, place limits on that ability.

As for the point some of have made regarding the fact that federal employees do not possess the collective bargaining powers that Wisconsin's employees will have even after this new law goes into effect - no one is claiming that the situations are the same....although they have more in common than you think. You seem to believe that there should be no comparison between federal and Wisconsin workers because those in Wisconsin have had "rights" revoked while federal workers have not. That's not correct. Federal workers used to be able to collectively bargain over more issues than they can now until their "rights" were limited by legislation - just like Wisconsin. Was it the bad, evil rapacious Republicans who did it? Nope. Jimmy Carter and a Dem controlled Congress did it in 1978.

But even if the two situations had less in common, that would still not be the point. The point is that how can Walker and the GOP in Wisconsin be "union busting"; how can Walker be acting like a "dictator" like Hitler or Mubarak; how can the GOP be doing anything so horrible as to justify the hysterical reaction of so many on the left when the end result will still be that Wisconsin's workers still retain a greater collective bargaining ability than federal workers have been given - by Dems!?

Should the Wisconsin workers be upset? Sure. Is this using political power to enact partisan priorities? That's what elections are for. But the fact is that what Walker has done cannot be "extreme", it cannot be an "attack" on unions, it isn't a declaration of "war" on the middle class, etc. when what they now have is comparable to what so many other public workers possess as well. That's the point.

Posted by: paco33 | March 11, 2011 10:48 PM | Report abuse

The little old lady school teacher is such a thug.

Posted by: chucko2 | March 11, 2011 10:56 PM | Report abuse

What I LOVE about the Wisconsin situation is that it reveals that liberals are everything that they profess to hate, act precisely in ways that they always decry, think in ways that are bereft of logic, and behave in shameful manner when like little children they do not get their way.

This little tantrum marks the end of the beginning. The country booted liberals out in November 2010 and now is seeing just what an anti-democratic, violent, and disgusting mob of selfish jerks they really are. Liberal ideology is going down for the count and the normal, sane citizens look forward to progressive heads exploding in rage.

Posted by: pburich | March 11, 2011 11:08 PM | Report abuse

Here is a point by point response to paco33's latest right wing fulmination:

paco33 posted: Ok, let's try it this way. First, collective bargaining isn't a "right". A "right" is something so fundamental and basic that a government - no government - is capable of granting it or taking it away.

-- Incorrect. Statutory rights -- which can be eliminated by legislation -- are by far the most common variety in USA. As I will demonstrate, pacco33 knows this to be true, and there is therefore no excuse for the dissimulation.

paco33 posted: Federal workers used to be able to collectively bargain over more issues than they can now until their "rights" were limited by legislation - just like Wisconsin.

-- As I said, statutory rights are by far the most common variety in USA. As I also said, there is no excuse for pacco's earlier dissimulation.

paco33 posted: The point is that how can Walker and the GOP in Wisconsin be "union busting"; how can Walker be acting like a "dictator" like Hitler or Mubarak; how can the GOP be doing anything so horrible as to justify the hysterical reaction of so many on the left when the end result will still be that Wisconsin's workers still retain a greater collective bargaining ability than federal workers have been given - by Dems!?

-- That one is extraordinarily easy: they just did. If you mean, can they get away with it, the answer is: in the short run, yes; in the long run, no. The political careers of at least 3 GOP Wisconsin senators is history. Scott Walker is radioactive in Wisconsin, and couldn't be elected dog catcher.

paco33 posted: Should the Wisconsin workers be upset? Sure. Is this using political power to enact partisan priorities? That's what elections are for. But the fact is that what Walker has done cannot be "extreme", it cannot be an "attack" on unions, it isn't a declaration of "war" on the middle class, etc. when what they now have is comparable to what so many other public workers possess as well.

-- Presumably this is an elaborate way of saying that a ferocious political war is underway in USA. Pacco could not be more correct. Everyone knows that progressives will ultimately win. The only question is how many lives the American political right will injure or destroy between now and then.

Posted by: J_B_A | March 11, 2011 11:11 PM | Report abuse

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