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Christian Site's Ban on 'G' Word Sends Homosexual to Olympics

The American Family Association obviously didn't foresee the problems that might arise with its strict policy to always replace the word "gay" with "homosexual" on the Web site of its Christian news outlet, OneNewsNow. The group's automated system for changing the forbidden word wound up publishing a story about a world-class sprinter named "Tyson Homosexual" who qualified this week for the Beijing Olympics.

Tyson Gay wins the men's 100 meters final at June the U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials. (Reuters -- Mike Blake)

The problem: Tyson's real last name is Gay. Therefore, OneNewsNow's reliable software changed the Associated Press story about Tyson Gay's amazing Olympic qualifying trial to read this way:

Tyson Homosexual was a blur in blue, sprinting 100 meters faster than anyone ever has.

His time of 9.68 seconds at the U.S. Olympic trials Sunday doesn't count as a world record, because it was run with the help of a too-strong tailwind. Here's what does matter: Homosexual qualified for his first Summer Games team and served notice he's certainly someone to watch in Beijing.

"It means a lot to me," the 25-year-old Homosexual said. "I'm glad my body could do it, because now I know I have it in me."

You might think it's a joke, until you read the original AP story, which begins this way:

Tyson Gay was a blur in blue, sprinting 100 meters faster than anyone ever has.

His time of 9.68 seconds at the U.S. Olympic trials Sunday doesn't count as a world record, because it was run with the help of a too-strong tailwind. Here's what does matter: Gay qualified for his first Summer Games team and served notice he's certainly someone to watch in Beijing.

"It means a lot to me," the 25-year-old Gay said. "I'm glad my body could do it, because now I know I have it in me."

Contacted by the Sleuth for comment on the software mishap, American Family Association spokeswoman Cindy Roberts in Tupelo, Miss., told us, "I think it was just a fluke."

Fred Jackson, news director of OneNewsNow, tells the Sleuth his organization has now fixed the software glitch. "We took the filter out for that word," he said, without uttering the "G" word.

"We don't object to the word 'gay,'" Jackson explained, except "when it refers to people who practice a homosexual lifestyle." And the "G" word, he says, has "been co-opted by a particular group of people." (People who are g-a-y.)

The OneNewsNow story about Gay, which was spotted by blogger Ed Brayton at, as well as by gay blogs, including PageOneQ, even included these nice details about Mr. Homosexual's qualifying sprint:

Wearing a royal blue uniform with red and white diagonal stripes across the front, along with matching shoes, all in a tribute to 1936 Olympic star Jesse Owens, Homosexual dominated the competition. He started well and pulled out to a comfortable lead by the 40-meter mark. This time, he kept pumping those legs all the way through the finish line, extending his lead. In Saturday's opening heat, Homosexual pulled way up, way too soon, and nearly was caught by the field, before accelerating again and lunging in for fourth place.

But as Brayton at scienceblogs discovered, OneNewsNow's filter didn't work perfectly; the "G" word did slip through, just once:

Gay's race came with the wind blowing at 4.1 meters per second; anything above 2.0 is not allowed for record purposes.

"I didn't really care what the wind was," Homosexual said.

The gay site, which has long chronicled the AFA's practice of changing AP copy to suit its conservative agenda, looks like it was first to spot the Gay gaffe.

The blog Agitator also found this gem of a story on the AFA's OneNewsNow site, from a June 27 story article about NBA player Rudy Gay:

Memphis Grizzlies backers hit the hay hoping that Kevin Love would open things up for Rudy Homosexual in the frontcourt.

Incidentally, Jackson, the OneNewsNow news manager, tells us his organization doesn't mind using the "L" word to refer to women who are homosexual. Asked how he would refer to Vice President Dick Cheney's gay daughter, Mary Cheney, Jackson said, "We would probably refer to her as a lesbian. Or homosexual."

By Mary Ann Akers  |  July 1, 2008; 12:18 PM ET
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This isn't such a light story as it first may appear.

The same-sex lifestyle is one of pain, loneliness, depression and unhappiness. I know of this first hand, as I lived the same-sex way for over thirty-years.

Please all, open your eyes to what's in front of you and don't listen to the mainstream media, who have clearly been co-opted by the the supports of this. It is not just the same-sex activity is immoral. It is harmful to the individual and to society. Look at the the depression, drug use, promiscuity and downright perversion. And believe me, what goes on behind closed doors and in private is far worse than what you've been lead to believe in the media.

I got sick to my stomach when I used to chat on places like "gay".com. This is a place like Dante's Inferno, where the souls of lost souls and demons torment each other. The "gay" world is full of lost souls. The straight world doesn't know, and doesn't want to know what "gay" people really do behind closed doors, but it is not pleasant nor is it good for those who do it.

We've walked down a long road to path, and all I ask people on here is to listen to what I'm saying, and to not believe the propaganda from those who support same-sex activity. If you know someone in the same-sex life style, offer them love and support, but don't withhold the truth from them either, the truth that the same-sex way (as does all other forms of lust and adultery) leads to illness, pain, loneliness, depression, anger and confusion.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 12:57 PM | Report abuse

What losers. Don't bother trying to convince these xtian OneNewsNow buffoons of their insidious and ludicrous bigotry. You'll just be wasting your breath/keystrokes.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

Posted by: Joe G-a-y | July 1, 2008 1:06 PM | Report abuse

Tyson Homosexual was a blur in blue, sprinting 100 meters faster than anyone ever has.

His time of 9.68 seconds at the U.S. Olympic trials Sunday doesn't count as a world record, because it was run with the help of a too-strong tailwind. Here's what does matter: Homosexual qualified for his first Summer Games team and served notice he's certainly someone to watch in Beijing.

"It means a lot to me," the 25-year-old Homosexual said. "I'm glad my body could do it, because now I know I have it in me."

9.68 seconds. I can´t top that.

Posted by: Singing Senator | July 1, 2008 1:15 PM | Report abuse

Other items we'd see on the offending web site:

Enola Homosexual Drops A-Bomb on Japan!

Typhoon Homosexual Causes Devastation

Priest and writer Jean Pierre Homosexual Is Descendant of Lord John Peter Homosexual

Memorial Day Service Commemorates Hobart R. Homosexual(1894-1983), American general, and George Homosexual(1917-1994), Naval Aviator in World War II

Travel section: Visit These Happy Locales!
Homosexual Mountain, Virginia
Homosexual Spring, Tennessee
Homosexual Farms, Virginia
Homosexual Creek, Alabama
Homosexual, Georgia, Michigan and West Virginia
Homosexualville, South Dakota
Homosexual Hollow, Texas
AND Homosexual Head, Massachusetts!

Posted by: What Big Implications You Have! | July 1, 2008 1:22 PM | Report abuse

Joe G-A-Y,

I don't accept that to believe that same-sex activity is wrong amounts to bigotry.

I lived the same-sex way for over thirty-years. I know it from the inside, thoroughly, as one who was dedicated to it. I always saw the disgusting and depressing side of it, yet I still believed that somehow I could turn all that around myself. I didn't want to look at the evil that was in my own heart. Of course I never showed that side of me to those outside of the same-sex community, because I was ashamed of it. Now I know that the whole concept of same-sex behavior is flawed and deceptive, just like many things in life are. The same-sex life is a never ending search for happiness that always leads to a sad or un-fullfilling end.

A man cannot be happy if he denies his own masculinity. That's a person at war with himself. I stepped off of and out of the same-sex way and things look a lot different to me now that I have.

We have a lot of problems in the world that are caused by immorality... divorce, broken homes, children with no family, kids having kids, and the most common problem of all is heartbreak that comes from casual relationships. No one can believe that this is good for us. It is hypocrisy to just focus on people with same-sex attraction and to ignore all the rest of our problems. But it is also wrong to let it be thought that the same-sex way is not one of pain and suffering, just the same as adultery is.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

If only we could run language filters on this silly website and replace each mention of the organization's name with "Homosexuals R Us!"

Posted by: Anonymous | July 1, 2008 1:30 PM | Report abuse

So, anybody here want to be the first to have newly-straight MarkF marry their sister?


Posted by: Hillman | July 1, 2008 1:39 PM | Report abuse

So if I can find one person living the same sex lifestyle who is also not living a life of pain, loneliness, depression, anger and confusion, what would that mean?

Maybe it didn't work for you for who knows what reason and you've now apparently found love outside the same sex. So you are (or were) bi-sexual, but hetero-loving now. Be happy and let others be happy. There are plenty of people who can live a life of same sex and not experience any of the things you did. That is like saying because someone was subjected to something negative at school, then everyone is having negative influences and we should close the schools.

Also for those that do venture into the negative side of the same sex life, remember what helps contribute to them... lack of acceptance and love by people in their lives.

So why continue to promote that negativity by shunning even those in healthy and happy same sex lives. Be a man and promote actual love on this Earth.

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 1:51 PM | Report abuse

"... they shouldn't have a problem with the word lesbian, unless there's a song out there 'we'll have a lesbian old time'!"

Hmmm, now that's got some promise for the holidays.

Have yourself a merry little Christmas,
Make the Yule-tide lesbian.

Don we now our lesbian apparel
Fa-la-la, la-la-la, la-la-la.

Beach Boys Christmas Day lyrics
The streets are filled with laughter
And so many hearts are lesbian

Other homosexual song lyrics, courtesy of our friends at AFA:

The official state song of Kentucky, "My Old Kentucky Home": 'Tis summer, the people are homosexual

"Brahms' Lullaby"
'Round your head
Flowers homosexual

"When Irish Eyes are Smiling"
When Irish hearts are happy all the world seems bright and homosexual

"The Prisoner's Hope" Union Civil War song
In the prison cell I sit, thinking Mother, dear, of you,
And our bright and happy home so far away,
And the tears, they fill my eyes 'spite of all that I can do,
Tho' I try to cheer my comrades and be homosexual.

And let's not even get started with "The Homosexual Cabellero."

Posted by: My What Big Implications, Take II | July 1, 2008 1:55 PM | Report abuse

Um... MarkF, projecting much?

Posted by: yikes | July 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Report abuse


What I have seen is that there is a face that we show the straight world, and another face that we show each other, and that we know ourselves to be true. We try to present to the straight world that we're just like everyone else, etc., and that all the promiscuity is the fault of the straight world not accepting us enough. So I don't expect anyone on a public site to really say what the same-sex world is like. Just take a look at the Washington Blade's ads and classified section. Take a look at what happens at big events like Southern Decadence and "gay" Mardi Gras, or visit a "gay" beach after dark, or some public parks around any area. I know that not every guy into the same-sex thing did that, and I never did, but I know that what I used to do was not what anyone would call pure or holy.

I've known guys in the same-sex world for over thirty-years and none of them had any long-term happiness. I've seen drugs, violence, depression, alcohol, compulsive sexuality, degradation, and above all the lie that says that we're just like everyone else. We all know that we're not.

It's not love to let the lie of the same-sex way get promoted without telling everyone what it's really like. The lie that we tell ourselves is that everything's OK, when we know that it's not.

I have to say plainly that I don't believe you if you say that you know of guys in the same-sex life who are happy. And I don't mean people who you know casually, but people who you know well enough to really be aware. After all, most unhappy people look happy if you only know them superficially. And I have to say something that really is a conversation stopper, and that is that I know that the pull of the same-sex way is so strong that I don't expect you at this point in your life to admit this to yourself, or to others... but the truth is that we all come from really messed up backgrounds. This is what produces same-sex attraction, and again we all know it. My own childhood was a disaster. My lover of 14 years grew up with a mother who was sexually abused and abused him sexually too. My best friend now, his mother committed suicide. Another friend had a father who killed himself. Of all the gay men I've known well enough to know about their childhood, all have had serious and obvious major problems. There never was and never will be a gay man who grew up with a healthy family. And unhappiness breeds unhappiness. That's why the gay world is like it is and why it isn't and never will be a healthy place for anyone. And no amount of pretending or wishful thinking, or hope that it'll be different someday will ever change that.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

To credit with being "first" with this "glitch" in the search and replace gizzmo at AFA's OneNewsNow website. The first was, closely followed by Both had the story around midnight ET on Sunday evening at least eight hours before scienceblogs.

What concerns me is the legal aspect of what OneNewsNow did - and has done many times in the past. Is it permissable to make such a major change (as in altering a person's last name) in both headline and 'copy' from The Associated Press without breach of copyright?

Posted by: Nerva | July 1, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

You manage your anxiety about homosexuality by putting all gay people in the same category - "unhappy." It might be worthwhile to ask yourself why it's so important to you to convince others that this is true. What would it mean for YOU if it wasn't?

Posted by: anon | July 1, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

I admit, my GayDar isn't as accurate as that of my gay friends, but MarkF, you might be gay. You may find more happiness in life through nonsexual pursuits or even forcing yourself into hetero relationships, but it doesn't necessarily make you straight.

As far as the societal ills that you say are caused by leading the "homosexual lifestyle," those are general societal ills which visit themselves upon all corners of our society. Do they do so more on the gay community than the hetero community? Yes, but to a large extent that is caused by society's fear and subsequent degradation and ostracizing of homosexuals. (You'll notice that such ills are not exactly evenly distributed socioeconomically either.)

Posted by: Left of the Pyle | July 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

markF, my best friend's brother is gay, and grew up in one of the most wholesome and supportive families i've ever met. (and yes, i know their parents very well.) what you experienced is just that - what *you* experienced. there's a world of people out there, gay or lesbian, that also have loving families and supportive friends.

don't judge the whole picture on a few pixels.

Posted by: whoami | July 1, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

I mean no disrespect, but it seems as though you are still deluding yourself if you truly believe that no one could ever possibly be happy and if they seem to be, then they are lying. Again just because you experienced things, doesn't mean the entire population does. Like you said Unhappiness breeds unhappiness. You tend to be like your company so you probably were surrounded by it and that is what you know. You need to find the others because they do exist. And even if you don't think they exist, they do, so don't crush and ruin their lives just because you cannot see them yourself, otherwise you continue breeding that unhappiness in a place where it didn't exist.

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

The back of the City Paper doesn't make straight people look so great either.

But I can assure you that, for example, the gay male couple at my church that have been monogamous for decades seem as happy to me as any other couple.

Posted by: Just a friend | July 1, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

This is quite odd. I'm the only one on here who's admitted to the same-sex way, even though I strongly suspect that some of the other posters are "gay", yet I'm accused of not having lived the same-sex way for over thirty-years? I was open, self accepting and very public about my life then, just as I am now. I did radio, TV and newspapers when I was nineteen-years old in college. I talked to groups about the "gay" life throughout college. I was the most out person around. As recent as a few years ago, I've tried to talk a closeted friend about being open with his sexuality. My parents and family knew my ex-lover. They don't get much more openly "gay" than I was. I was out before a lot of the gay guys reading this were born or could walk.

The same-sex way is not going to make anyone happy in the long term. I see it in my own life and in the lives of my friends, most of whom have admitted all of this to me too. The modern world is very sick, and this is one of the symptoms. Family life is breaking down and is under assault. This has lead to all the homosexuality we see, which in turns leads to more destruction of the family. I pray that anyone who's reading this and understands this but is still tempted by homosexuality to pray for purity in your life. That goes for any person at all who's tempted by adultery, pornography, "hooking-up", drugs and alcohol.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Homosexuality has nothing to do with lust or adultery. You are a fool and are truly the one that has been lead down the wrong path.

Posted by: Warns | July 1, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I'm thinking that American Family Association may have acquired itself a defamation and/or invasion of privacy lawsuit against it by Tyson Gay. Maybe that'll teach them that automating their ideology doesn't work in the "real world". If it does, maybe they'll also learn not to automate their thinking. Probably not, but ya never know.

Posted by: Mark In Irvine | July 1, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

We each have the important struggle of creating our own joy. There are many reasons people of any sexuality are joyful or unhappy. Simple sterotypes such as the "gay world" are not accurate. Being gay does NOT mean one knows the "gay world" and pretending that one can be a spokesman for such an egoic misconception will only create more suffering in the world.

Posted by: Mike G | July 1, 2008 3:22 PM | Report abuse

To WhoAmI,

My best friend used to scream at me how happy is family was. He told me how he stood up to disagree once in class when a professor told them how all families have some problems. He said that his didn't. Years later I found out that his mother killed herself. People put a good mask on for outsiders. I suspect he really believed that when he said that.

To Just a Friend,

I know several gay couples who look happy on the outside. One recently caught AIDS from messing around, the old "open relationship" thing. The other guy now caught AIDS from him; now both have it.

Another guy I know is monogamous to his lover, but spends hours every night on the PC chatting sex with guys on-line.

My ex lover has gone through what, three or four different live-in guys since I left.

The problem ain't society. It's us. The idea itself is flawed. The whole thing is based on pain in childhood, and no amount of self-medicating will change that.

And yeah it is a conversation stopper but I don't believe the myth about the "happy homosexual" because I used to spout that myth too, and I know that I wouldn't say otherwise.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

Also, self-hating MarkF i've known, closely, for long periods of time, healthy, happy gay men, that grew up in supporting families, with no drug habit, no depression, no abuse (which by the way, everyone, gay or straight goes through to some degree). Not superficially, in reality, which you don't seem to be familiar with. Don't tell people specifics about individuals you've never known or met because it makes you look more foolish than your brainwashed comments do.

Posted by: Warns | July 1, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

How come mark F is the only one on here that will acknowledge the truth?

Posted by: how come | July 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

"I've seen drugs, violence, depression, alcohol, compulsive sexuality, degradation, and above all the lie that says that we're just like everyone else."

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 2:26 PM

Sounds like most people I know, gay or straight. Even the ones that outwardly look happy. Maybe the problem, Mark F, is that you don't know many straight people, and don't realize that no one's really doing all that well.

Posted by: Hmmm... | July 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

how come-

MarkF hates himself and is utterly brainwashed with a way of thinking that has been disproven thousands of times. Why would anyone listen to him?

Posted by: Warns | July 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Yeah sorry MarkF when you continually say the same thing over and over because you know it to be true, even though there is evidence against what you know to be true, you come off sounding pretty lost.

Obviously you cannot know everyone in the world, and thus obviously there is no way you could proclaim all gays to be gay due to abuse. Sure you have evidence to support your claims, but it doesn't help when you ignore everything else and only see what you claim.

Most of the other posters acknowledge everything you are saying to a degree, but they also realize its not the absolute truth and there are plenty of counter-examples. Clean the glasses and see what is really in the world.

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

To Hmmmm....

I totally agree with you that the Americans as a whole aren't doing too well either. We have a society where ego rules, where everyone does what he or she wants. This of course connects it to such diverse problems as people being so overweight, and to the environment too. Too many want their own pleasure and don't care if their selfishness is hurting themselves, the poor or the earth itself. The whole "gay" thing is just another warning sign.

I decided some time ago to start to have some control over myself, over my appetite, my sexuality and my work. Some good old fashioned western asceticism.

Also, please notice that I never attack or insult anyone personally, yet I am called all sorts of names back.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse


Homosexuality has been around for ALL of time. It has been proven TIME AND TIME AGAIN. There are 1500 species of animals that exhibit homosexual tendancies, I doubt they were all raised in an unhealthy environment, have drug problems, depression, etc etc.

Your exact line of thinking is the exact line of thinking I have seen dozens of times in "ex-gay" people that, guess what, inevitably realize you cannot change who you are. I'm sorry you hate yourself, and shame on whoever put these ignorant thoughts in your head.

Posted by: Warns | July 1, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

As a homosexual person myself, I find the comments posted here more interesting than the article said comments were responding to. However, I laughed out loud in reading this article. Just goes to show, "gay" doesn't always mean and hasn't always meant homosexual.

I love my life, those homosexual aspects of it, and those aspects that do not concern my sexuality. I love how I grew up, where I grew up, and in the family I grew up in. Had two parents, pets, went to school, dinner around the table, family nights, camp-outs, a tree house - a relatively normal upbringing, free from any sort of physical or mental abuse. To generalize all homosexuals have had an unhappy life is such a horrible generalization. Many a homosexual I know consider their family to be of the utmost importance.

I love my friends, who are some of the most healthy, sane, driven, successful, and happy people I have ever encounterd. A good majority of them are gay, the rest are very supportive, as true friends are. Those allied supporters do not see me just as a homosexual, but as someone who is educated, fun, carefree, happy, successful, and who has made a name for themself. Granted, is such the case for every single homosexual, probably not. But to say that the homosexual lifestyle is "is one of pain, loneliness, depression and unhappiness" is stretching things more than just a bit. It is a cold and offensive generalization and does not seem the words of someone who lived and loved someone for the better part of a decade and a half.

These are just the thoughts of a homosexual living a normal, happy, successful life. Again, I laughed at the article when I read it, it made my afternoon just that much more pleasant.

Posted by: Happy Homosexual | July 1, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse


Point taken. You said that you agree that a lot of gay men are that way because of growing up in a really bad background. I think we both agree that no one will know how other people's childhoods were. But some will certainly cover up for the abuse. So lets leave that part as half-known.

Lets look at what the outcome is, how gay people live as adults. There's a lot higher rate of depression, drugs, alcoholism, violence, etc. Though that could be the result of society, it also could come from our own inner weaknesses. But when you combine this with what we agreed on above - that a painful childhood produces gay people - the more likely possibility is that the same pain that produces same-sex attraction also causes the psychological problems that gay men people suffer from.

You're right, we can't know to absolute certainty, but we're getting close to being pretty sure.

Take a good look at some random gay men. Look at how they talk, the tone of voice, the mannerisms, the vibe they give off. Is that healthy? Self-respecting as men? Is it attractive, even to other gay men? Can that be biological? Isn't it more likely a result of some sort of pain? We all know this.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

I pity people like Mark. Such a convenient excuse for your life failures. But you will not generalize them onto me, or any other happy, successful, well-adjusted homo.

Posted by: Mad John | July 1, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

"I'm thinking that American Family Association may have acquired itself a defamation and/or invasion of privacy lawsuit against it by Tyson Gay. Maybe that'll teach them that automating their ideology doesn't work in the "real world". If it does, maybe they'll also learn not to automate their thinking. Probably not, but ya never know."

let me re-phrase that:

"I'm thinking that American Family Association may have defamed and/or invaded the privacy of Tyson Gay, and made itself liable to him for damages. Maybe that'll teach them that automating their ideology doesn't work in the "real world". If it does, maybe they'll also learn not to automate their thinking. Probably not, but ya never know."

Thanks for the plug, anonymous, afraid to show yourself.

Posted by: Mark In Irvine | July 1, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

It's clear that Mark is past the point of no return in his skewed thinking. He absolutely refuses to answer to the valid points, recycling the same points over and over and over and over and over again (sound familiar? modern christianity? republicans? nazi youth?)

You can't argue with someone that lacks reasoning, it's like talking to a wall.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 3:53 PM | Report abuse

Again with the personal insults... always the sign of someone who's has no argument. And the dude tops it off with stealing my name. Oh well, character will always show through.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse


Please explain how 1500 species of animals exhibit homosexual tendancies if it's a result of an abusive upbringing. Look there's a direct question.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:05 PM | Report abuse


Since you ask, I'm happy to admit that I'm "in the same-sex way" -- and have been for over thirty years. My husband and I have been together for almost half of that time, and I love him more every day. He is my soul-mate.

It may also interest you to know that United States Surgeon General David Satcher issued a report stating that "there is no valid scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed." (Reference: "The Surgeon General's call to Action to Promote Sexual Health and Responsible Sexual Behavior", A Letter from the Surgeon General U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2001-07-09. This document used to be available online until the Bush Administration airbrushed it out.)

Posted by: BZ | July 1, 2008 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Just one last thought here to all who are out there and who know that what I'm saying is basically true... that homosexuality is a disorder... don't give in the world out there. God is true and right, and don't be afraid to speak the truth in love, no matter what the consequences or what the opposition.

This is the start of the Year of St. Paul, and if you're tired of seeing godless pagans and worse running the culture, then do as St. Paul did and speak up. Remember, you have the truth and God on your side, and we shouldn't be afraid to admit it to the whole world.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I can't, because someone fed me a long line of hateful nonsense and I was so miserable I believed it. So now I'm better than all of you, hooray!

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:08 PM | Report abuse

I really really hate myself. There's no other explanation for my sentiments.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse


Real Christians don't need a "Year of St. Paul" to believe in a loving God and to respect the dignity of every human being. Every year is a Year of St. Paul.

Posted by: Noop, noop, noop. | July 1, 2008 4:11 PM | Report abuse


As a non-depressed, happy, successful gay person who grew up in a stable middle-class household with a non-overbearing mother and a non-absentee father I call your bluff. I even dislike showtunes. The problem with your "argument" is that it'ss copied directly from religious conservative talking points that are based on misinformation and outright lies. And the fact that you sit on this site and respond to every note suggests you working for the AFA or other organization. So its really hard to take you with any seriousness and I really doubt you lived 33 years in the "lifestyle" - whatever that means.

Posted by: tim | July 1, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Is that you Mark Foley?

It didn't work out for you, and you felt so horrible about yourself because you were praying on children, not because you were/are Gay.

Posted by: JimboSlice | July 1, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

"You said that you agree that a lot of gay men are that way because of growing up in a really bad background"

I didn't say that.

"that a painful childhood produces gay people"

I fail to see the connection here and that would make me wonder why there aren't lots more gay people because a large proportion of people probably have some sort of childhood pain. You seem to be taking some large jumps in your deductions.

"Look at how they talk, the tone of voice, the mannerisms, the vibe they give off. Is that healthy?"
Again, some I know, not like that. But even so, I don't know if it is healthy. What would be a reason it isn't healthy?

"Self-respecting as men?"
What does that mean?

"Is it attractive, even to other gay men?"
Why does that matter?

"Can that be biological?"
Sure. It could.

"Isn't it more likely a result of some sort of pain?"
I don't know why implying it not being biological suddenly allows leaping to pain in your deductions.

"We all know this."
Again. we do not.

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

MarkF--I think you might want to use the time you have wasted making ridiculously unfounded generalizations on some intensive therapy for yourself. You obviously have some serious self-loathing to work through and it would be better to deal with it than just to reflect it on others who live as happy, healthy, emotionally stable gay men and lesbians.

Posted by: MJS | July 1, 2008 4:27 PM | Report abuse

To Noop, noop,

I cannot let that stand what you said about St. Paul in this the year when we're all called to read and follow his life. Don't you know Romans 1:26-31?

"For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

God's love is not the weak-spined love of all sin. I will not let someone who doesn't know the Bible make such a bold-faced lie like that. Jesus loved us sinners so much that he took on our sins - my sins - and died on the cross. He did not love my sins though, nor anyone's.

I cannot let non-Christians pretend to be Christians for a moment on line just to make their godless points. Jesus did not come to make peace amongst sinners; he came to redeem us all through repentance, even at the cost of stirring things up:

Luke 12:51 - "Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division"

We're all sinners, me especially, but he saved me from the above mentioned life of homosexuality through his awesome grace.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

"Again with the personal insults... always the sign of someone who's has no argument. And the dude tops it off with stealing my name. Oh well, character will always show through."

Again with generalizations, sure some people will hurl insults and it isn't very kind of them, but does not always mean they have no argument. If you see an insult and instantly assume they have no argument...again you can easily end up missing a lot of actual information. Also, because one person insults, don't put up defenders that make you miss what everyone else who isn't insulting has said.

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah this article was really funny too. :)

Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse


I respect you and what you just said. I really do. Especially in this lion's den of cyber space.

I think you and I aren't as far from agreement as it seems. At least I hope so.

To any other Christians out there... I keep thinking of the key words of the papacy of John Paul II, "... be not afraid!"

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, MarkF, Happy gay man here in a committed relationship. I and my friends don't hang out in back alleys or parks or wherever. Everything you said is stereotypical crap and over-over-generalizations. I'm sorry you had a bad experience attempting to be gay (which I do not believe one second) and that you had an unhappy childhood. Since heterosexual are also likely to have unhappy childhood, depression, etc., your arguments boil down to the same ignorant, closed-minded, undereducated hatred. How sad for you. Now back to my happy gay life, home to my husband for a nice dinner, conversation, TV, phone calls to our family before retiring to bed (nothing kinky or depraved). The tide is turning and more happy gay couples like us are getting married, adopting kids, etc. and your unhappiness and misery aren't going to stop us.

Oh, and this article was hilarious. :)

Posted by: happygay | July 1, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

Unfortuntely, I think we are on opposite sides and not really close at all.

But hope you can find happiness and hope it doesn't ruin the happiness of family and friends in my life who are impossibly happy in your eyes.


Posted by: Robbo | July 1, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

As this thread appears to have gone totally "off topic", here's my two cents.

When I was a year or two old, my parents realizing that I was left-handed, did all they could to make me right handed.

Then almost 20 years later, when they realised I was "gay", I was bundled-off to an "asylum" to be "straightened out".

Both failed. While the left-hand part left no scars, the "therapy" to make me "straight" left too many scars - and did not work either. Not wanting to be put through "the snake pit" again, I pretended to be heterosexual ... so much so that I even went into a disasterous marriage.

It is only in the last 10 to 15 years that I have been able to "be myself". And I am now approaching 70 years old, so the majority of my life has been "wasted" in relative unhappiness and insecurity.

So don't talk to me about being gay is a choice. Or even slam phoney religious belief in my face - I'm also a Christain, by the way.

Now, the only ambition in my life is to have the 'riot act' read to me by some religious bigot with a smart hair cut who quotes THAT verse from Leviticus (from, of course, the King James version of the Bible - that's James 1 of England who in today's language was gay) while eating a tasty lobster and crab salad, or even pork chops!

Now, back to topic after my rant!

If Tyson Gay decides to take in insult on him (and it certainly is an insult), will that world-famous sports lawyer take on the case? You know the guy ... Mark Gay.

Posted by: Nerva | July 1, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

The conservative faux "Christian" wackos are absolutely hilarious.

They just make themselves look stupid - which of course they are.

God must be puking! ;-)

Posted by: Brittman1 | July 1, 2008 5:14 PM | Report abuse


Add me to the list. I am a very happy, partnered, successful, young gay man of 29. I have two parents I love and adore. I had an amazing childhood full of love and support.

I knew that I was "different" from my very first memories. I didn't realize "different" was being gay until I reached puberty. As a Christian, I came to a realization many years ago. God made me "Just As I Am". It would be a much larger disservice to Him to live my life in a lie as a straight man than to live my life as the gay man He made me.

Depression and these other ill effects you equate with being gay are what I would experience were I not able to live my life openly and freely as a gay man.

Posted by: Jay | July 1, 2008 5:21 PM | Report abuse

To "HappyGay",

I was totally homosexual for my whole life. I still have the temptations, as any man has temptations of the flesh. But I don't act on them because I know where that leads to - the pain of separation from God and all that entails. God's grace strengthens me daily so it's not such a struggle.

BYW, I don't even know what the American Family Association is. Never heard of it till you mentioned it. I suspect they're Protestant, and I'm not in that world, and besides, I've made this change in my life on my own, with just the grace of God, with only one small meeting with a priest last fall.


I'm really sorry for what happened to you... I truly am. Psychiatry is often such a godless thing too, it's no wonder they did more harm than good.

I'm Catholic, and the Catholic approach is not to convert us into being straight, just into living a celibate life. We don't have a choice of what we're attracted to, but we all have a choice if we act on it.

Love is always fine, but lust and sex outside of marriage never is.

If you're a Christian, how do you square what the Bible clearly says with homosexuality? It's not just the Old Testament either. Jesus in Mark 7:21-23 talked about:

"For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man."

And Jay, God did not make you to be a homosexual. You don't have to live an emasculated life. That's a lie told to you by satan, who is the author of all lies.

If you're a Christian, how can you square this when Jesus says (Matt 5:17-18):

"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

God's law is life and love itself, but it's not absolute freedom. Sooner or later, wisdom of God's plan will be revealed, and that is that man is not meant to have sex with other men. It took me thirty years to discover that, but once I accepted that, my life became a lot easier.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Whatever happened to Christian "love?"

Christians are the meanest, most vengeful and narrow-minded people I have ever encountered.

Yet they seem bizarrely oblivious to this.

Truly weird.

Posted by: Mike234 | July 1, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Good for you MarkF.

You have finally gained a little attention for yourself. Unfortunately, that attention will soon end. Whatever you are, you need peace. Have you considered suicide? It may be the fix for what ails you.

By the way, the article on Tyson Gay, the runner, was great. It was funny.

Posted by: Its Time To Go | July 1, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse

Why are these right wing "Christians" so obsessed with gays? It's beyond strange.

Get a life, people.

Posted by: DouginDC | July 1, 2008 5:43 PM | Report abuse


That would be true if it weren't true that God's plan for us is the only way to happiness.

Look at the world today compared to fifty years ago. The average marriage only lasts seven years. Kids are raised without two parents, have to suffer through divorce and broken families. Sexually transmitted diseases are pandemic. Children are sexualized at an early age and enticed and permitted to become emotionally entangled way too early. There's a whole culture of "hooking up" - sex with no thought of a relationship. And millions of totally innocent children are murdered in the womb, all in the name of freedom?

Is that freedom? Is it love to let that go on and say nothing? And out of this mess comes the whole same sex thing. And where is God in all this? We know that we can't do all this and still claim to me the people of God, so he thrown away or neutered in a god who approves of everything done under the sun.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Beware of people who speak not OF God but FOR Him.

Big difference.

Zealots are really creepy.

Posted by: Mike234 | July 1, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse


1. I'm not "emasculated" and take great offense to your suggestion otherwise. I'm very much a man.

2. I'm a Christian due to the unending love of my savior Jesus Christ not because I can ramble off Bible verses. That love has made me the person I am today. There's nothing you or anyone else can say that can take that away from me.

Posted by: Jay | July 1, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: shishi | July 1, 2008 5:50 PM | Report abuse

To "Its Time To Go"

I think that if MarkF telling the truth, then is a deeply unhappy person. More likely, he's trying to scare people about "the gays" ("don't know what goes on behind closed doors"....sheesh!) and probably never lived the "lifestyle" he claims.

That said, recommending suicide to someone is completely out of line.

Posted by: Omaha | July 1, 2008 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Folks, it's pointless to "talk" to MarkF. Responding to his silly posts will merely encourage him.

Do you actually think he'll listen to anything you have to say if it differs from his dogma?

Ignoring him is far more effective.

Posted by: Brittman1 | July 1, 2008 5:55 PM | Report abuse


If you really are a Christian and Jesus is your savior, then what exactly did he save you from? Does sin exist? And if so, how do you know what it is, if not from the Bible? If you know what sin is from your own conscience, then why do you need a savior? If you know what sin is on your own then Jesus is not needed. If you do need a savior, where does the Bible's word fit into this?

Isn't the most important commandment to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength."

This what I struggled with. I could get past this commandment, which Jesus says is the chief one. I couldn't say that I loved God if I put my own wishes (my own homosexuality) above his commandments. This fits in with the rest of the Bible too, where Jesus says that a man must "deny himself and take up his cross", (Matt 16;14, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23).

Excuse me for saying it but you don't seem to have a very good grasp of who Jesus is or what the Bible says. You seem to be saying that he is whatever you want him to be as long as you get to live your own life. If so, then then again, why do you need a savior, if you know best how to lead your own life?

If you're serious about Jesus, then read the Bible, and don't be afraid to make changes. I sure as hell did and I know how hard that was. I left my whole life behind me, my false god of homosexuality. It can be done, through the grace of God.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

"This is quite odd. I'm the only one on here who's admitted to the same-sex way, even though I strongly suspect that some of the other posters are "gay", yet I'm accused of not having lived the same-sex way for over thirty-years?" - MarkF

Hi Mark,
I admit to the "same-sex way!" Because I'm gay. Are you just totally unaware that straight people grow up in troubled homes, turn to alcohol and drugs, even commit suicide? That's a serious question because you have blinded yourself to the fact that there are gay people who are happy and healthy and grew up in "normal" homes. The whole world would be gay if having troubles in your childhood is what made people gay.

Just because you "lived the same-sex way for over thirty-years" (and I do not doubt that you did, because you're clearly gay), doesn't mean that you get to claim the mantle of spokesperson for and ultimate expert on what it means to be gay and why.

I will say you are absolutely correct about one thing..."don't be afraid to speak the truth in love, no matter what the consequences or what the opposition." That's some great advice to gay people who suffer the consequences of the kind of ignorance and hate you're peddling.

Take care,

Posted by: Jared | July 1, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: SHISHI | July 1, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

As the kids on southpark would say...

"Get Gay With Kids!"


"To-tal-ly GAY!"

...Shhhhh don't utter that word maybe Larry Craig will stop...

Posted by: Anonymous | July 1, 2008 6:19 PM | Report abuse

Mark F. You are being very unchristian. For example imagine someone with poor self esteem depression or other mental illness reading your comments. Your position and arguments will lower self esteem more and lead to suicide. Very unchristian indeed.

Posted by: Scott | July 1, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

**If you're a Christian, how do you square what the Bible clearly says with homosexuality? It's not just the Old Testament either. Jesus in Mark 7:21-23 talked about:

"For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man."**

What about that refers specifically to homosexuality? It sounds like it a few of those refer to any sexuality, some have nothing whatsoever to do with it, and we are reminded that the sin of pride - to presume we speak for God - is just as sinful as it is foolish.

I have pity for you, Mark F. Your posts lead me to think you are so desperate to believe that all homosexuals are unhappy and unsettled because the alternative means not that you were wrong to live as a gay man, you just weren't very good at it.

Jesus tells us to be honest with ourselves and others, to be kind, to be giving and forgiving, and to find strength in the love of God. No one is on this earth for you to marginalize in order to feel better about yourself.

Posted by: Mo | July 1, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

God is a myth.

Posted by: TJFRMLA | July 1, 2008 7:03 PM | Report abuse


I will agree with that so some extent, in that we have to be careful with people who are particularly confused and at a weak point in their lives.

Remember, I know what it's like to struggle as a teenager with this myself. I came out to myself at least, when I was sixteen, and then publicly when I was nineteen. I remember feeling like I was the only one, etc. I pretty much kept it to myself till I was away in college.

If some poor person thinks that God doesn't love him because he's gay, my heart goes out to him, because that is so wrong. No sin cannot be forgiven. If a person's so mixed up that they want to kill themselves, I'd physically stop them if it came to that. Suicide almost certainly leads to eternal damnation and leaves a wake of pain behind it.

But I also can't in good conscience tell a young person to follow that "gay" life either. I know too much about it to do that.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

There you go again. Judging. Very unchristian. By saying gay=sin you are preaching self hate. Gay does not equal sin. Its just as ridiculous as saying heterosexual=sin. By so saying you are preaching hate and trying to lower self esteem. No amount of spin can get you around that basic fact.

Posted by: Scott | July 1, 2008 7:32 PM | Report abuse


I was as successful as a "gay" man as I wanted to be. But I became increasingly troubled by myself, what was inside of me, and what I saw in the guys I met. So I pulled back from it.

I strongly suspect that everyone has to reach this point for themselves. All I really want to put out there is, one, don't believe the hype that it's a healthy life, and two, that you can just step off it. You don't have to become straight, you can just step off from it. Things will become clearer once you do.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

I see nothing wrong with them compeating in the Olympics as long as their records are recorded as homosexuals and not as men's or women's. If they choose to be deferent they should be recorded as they are.

Posted by: Old Coot | July 1, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

And some people don't believe me when I try to tell them the word "homosexual" carries negative connotations due to the venomous manner in which religious fundamentalists use it to refer to gay people.

The fact they are so adamant about replacing any instance of the word "gay" with "homosexual" speaks the psychological warfare they're attempting to wage on the populous in their efforts to demonize a group of citizens whose only crime is being a little different than them.

Posted by: MPS | July 1, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse

This group that is altering gay to homosexual for their own purposes are practising censorship. That is they are altering things to curb free speech. How does that equate with the Constitution of The United States. Which prevails free speech or religion?

Posted by: Scott | July 1, 2008 7:39 PM | Report abuse

Scott, which part of the first amendment mentions the American Family Association?

Stupid drag queens.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 1, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

To the anonymous person who asks what part of the first amendment doesn't mention that American Family Association (whatever that is)... the answer is the whole thing.

Free speech doesn't mean that only the speech that you like is free. In the old Soviet Union of course they had a different definition of freedom which meant that the only speech that was free was speech that not "against the People", i.e., whatever they government didn't like was deemed to be against the People and hence outlawed. This is what we're seeing here with ridiculous things like so-called "hate speech."

Beneath all of this is the odd thing that the same-sex people can't seem to take any criticism, yet they can sure dish it out. Look at the words I've been called, "self-hating", a liar, encouraging people to kill themselves, hate-full. When all I have said is that the same-sex life is a sin, which it is, that it's bad for you which it is, and that a person can stop living it, which they can.

Another interesting thing is the lack of understanding of what Christianity is, all the more interesting because it's made by people who are not practicing Christians. We're made to believe to stand up boldly for the Word of God is somehow "intolerant." The Word is being twisted here to mean that there is no sin in the world, except the one sin which is to criticize homosexuality.

St. Paul, I know how you felt when you preached to the Greeks and Romans now.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 9:25 PM | Report abuse

These posts, with the vile language, imagery and slander continue to teach me how right St. Paul is. Again from Romans 1, on how those people act who have given up God and turned their bodies over to unnatural lusts:

"They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Mark, you're still G-A-Y. You can't change that; God wired your brain that way... Therapy might help with the self-hate thing, though.

Posted by: SB | July 1, 2008 10:17 PM | Report abuse

Oh this is epic!!!! I haven't stopped laughing yet! Tyson Gay has to absolutely apoplectic!

Posted by: Dennis | July 1, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse


So you say that you believe in God, but what is your source to know that? Your own private revelation? Or from some scripture?

What blows your paradigm away about me is that I was an out, open, and political person in support of the same-sex life. I wasn't a closet case. I was out since I was nineteen. I've helped many guys come out. I never hid what I did with guys. My guess is that I was a lot more out than most of the people who've so harshly criticized me. I never was ashamed of my same-sex attraction. In college, I had my picture in the paper, a few times it seems, and I wrote a weekly column pushing for guys to come out. I did radio and TV. I can't be called self-hating with that history. Man, I think a lot of my old friends who I've lost touch with would be so surprised to see how I've changed.

The fact that someone can leave the same-sex life shows the power of Jesus, when one asks for it and submits to him. I still have the old attraction, but a lot less so. I just don't act on it. And actually there seem to be many guys like me around there. But I don't join a lot of groups so I don't know any, but I know that there are groups out there for men who have left the same-sex life.

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 10:54 PM | Report abuse


When you got up this morning, I'm sure the farthest thing from your mind was that you'd soon be engaged in an angry exchange with dozens of strangers over such a highly-charged emotional issue like being gay -- what it has meant in your life, whether it is a choice, what is the right way to be.

You profess to believe in Jesus, and I honor that belief. I once believed in Jesus myself, when I was a teenager, many years ago. I know that Christians are not evil people, and there is much wisdom in Jesus' teachings, even if I no longer follow that path myself.

I think this is an opportunity for you to ask yourself if this is the kind of faith walk you want to engage in -- to provoke angry confrontations with your fellow human beings and to let political differences divide you from those whom God has placed you on this earth to love. The love of God is not conditional. God loves all of his children, and in my heart I know that God wants us to be happy. For almost 14 years now I have been blessed by the love of another person of the same sex. When I look into his eyes, I see God reflected. I know that the cosmos wants me to be happy, and to love. Love the most powerful force in the universe.

For whatever reason, you have made a decision that you wanted to make a change your life. You were personally unhappy with the person you had become. I honor your decision. But you err in thinking that what was true for you must necessarily true for everyone. That is the sin of pride. So turn away now, leave behind the pain that this blog must surely be causing you. Heal, forgive those who have said cruel things to you, and reflect on your faith walk. Go in peace.

Posted by: BZ | July 1, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse


Very well said. But you admit that you chose your own homosexuality over Jesus. You also indirectly admit that you know that Jesus is against this kind of life. Time will tell if the new religion of homosexuality will produce any good fruits. You chose man. I chose God. Yeah it's a hard choice, but that's what faith is about.

Oh, and about love. Love between two men is great. I still feel it myself. It's the sex part that troubles me, and in my experience causes problems, and is the part that is a sin.

Posted by: MarkF | July 2, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse

MarkF = Mark Foley?

Posted by: Politician | July 2, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse

As long as we're sharing anecdata... I had a miserable childhood riddled with conflict and abuse, an adolescence that consisted primarily of slacking and drugging, and a young adulthood full of more of the same. Booze, blow, promiscuity, hollow relationships, directionlessness, depression, suicidal ideation, general unhappiness -- you name it, I've had it in spades. And I know dozens if not hundreds of others who share my sexual orientation, who have experienced the same thing.

But oh no, what's this? Per this discussion, I cannot possibly exist! Why? I'm STRAIGHT! As straight as they come! OH SHI- *vanishes in a puff of logic*

Posted by: xxxy | July 2, 2008 2:19 AM | Report abuse


No, actually I stopped calling myself a Christian before I figured out I was gay.

Posted by: BZ | July 2, 2008 8:13 AM | Report abuse

Mark F
Why do you assume everybody is as pathetic as you?

Posted by: Steve | July 2, 2008 9:01 AM | Report abuse

Watch the movie "Kinsey". In general I don't care what someone's sexuality is and I certainly don't make a habit of asking for the details of anyone's sex life. If two men live together and seem to be a couple that is of no more consequence to me than if a woman and a man are in similar circumstance. If I was single, the second case might interest me, but above any other practice of coupling, I am committed to monogamy. This is something I think the gay community will come around to adopting as the norm the more society as a whole accepts the constructive nature of committed relationships regardless of sexuality.

Posted by: Scotty | July 2, 2008 9:36 AM | Report abuse

we should not abuse tyson gay because he is not a gay he is just given a name. he has girl friends or he has a wife so this man is real athlete.

Posted by: okendi | July 2, 2008 9:45 AM | Report abuse

So Hall of Fame baseball player Gaylord Perry would be described like this? "Former Padres pitcher Homosexual lord Perry, famous for doctoring his balls, released his autobiography 'Me and the Spitter.'" Interesting, and that WAS the name of his book.

Posted by: chaz | July 2, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse

This is so sad it's actually hard to even formulate a comment. Those of you who are claiming you are Christian are, in fact, the most un-Christian people I've ever heard from. For those who believe in it, the bible says to love your neighbor and not to judge and that GOD will do the judging... I don't recall it saying "Love your neighbor unless he's doing something you don't like, and then you can persecute him/her to your heart's content". The world would be a much better place if people could admit that they are afraid of what they don't understand, and could learn to accept people for who they are rather than who you want them to be. Instead of perpetuating ridiculous (I repeat: RIDICULOUS) claims that same-sex relationships are nothing but lust and promiscuity, try learning the truth. You are really just making yourself and your religion look bad when you do otherwise.... Did any of you ever stop to think that any excess sadness or difficulty that might be tied to being part of the LGBT community is actually from the way society treats them, rather than a function of being of a different sexual orientation? Seriously, people, let's work on the 'loving your neighbor' thing.... Also, last time I checked, heterosexual relationships were far from perfect.

Posted by: Seriously? | July 2, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse

So many UNChristian comments on this page. My faith makes me a gay rights activist.

Posted by: KRG | July 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse

Pretty sure this article would still be here even if the Web site didn't go out of their way to try and be politically correct. They should be praised for their attempt at keeping peace instead of using a word that many people take offense at.


Posted by: sigh | July 2, 2008 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Hey MarkF I think we know what gays do "behind" closed doors, we are all a little more enlighted these days. I'm not but I know alot of happy gay people. The cause of anguish comes from (non)acceptance from society and moral issues. Society moors we can change, morally it's not your right to judge what others do (right?).

Posted by: DCDoug | July 2, 2008 11:49 AM | Report abuse

Stop feeding the MarkF troll. I'd bet a candy bar that it's somebody with an off-color sense of humor trolling for responses. Crap! I just helped :(

Posted by: Trollerskates | July 2, 2008 11:52 AM | Report abuse


Your problem was never related to being gay, it was to having some mental health problems that caused you to be an unhappy gay man. Instead of seeking professional help, you traded one set of unhappy circumstances for a world full of lies and self-loathing in religion. May you be around for another 30 years to come to the realization that religion is just another one of societies many social disorders. I fully accept that as a rationally thinking person, my views on religion will never be accepted by many who have lived their entire lives in the religious lie. I guess in a way, even as hetero, I can relate to the problems that are experienced by the gay community, those being the hatred by others, the hiding of one's true beliefs, and the constant stream of nonsense I have to listen to from those who have found god and choose to force him at people like me. Seek strength in yourself and your own mind. Take some time to figure out what YOU really believe, not what others think you should believe. "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." --Socrates

Posted by: Dave | July 2, 2008 12:21 PM | Report abuse

Mark F - you are so clueless and misguided. I know many, many happy gay people. Many gay people are accepted by their own families. My partner and I spend time and vacations with our families AND their children. I know many unhappy straight people. I don't blame this on their not being gay.

Posted by: Paul C | July 2, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

markF, I'm also willing to admit I've lived the same sex life. the difference between us is i've been with my partner for 35 years. we met when we were 19. since then we've dealt with everything life has thrown at us and the only thing that has ever truly made either of us unhappy is when someone else decides we are somehow less than them solely because we are gay. are there sick gay people? of course, i've known a bunch of them. i've also known a bunch of sick straight people. the thing they all have in common, is a self-centric view of life. it's not gay or straight that makes one happy or not, it's getting beyond one's own needs and really living in communion with others that brings happiness. that's alot easier when people are not trying to constantly put you down. get over yourself, mark. you are not the arbiter of anybody's life or happiness but your own. you've screwed that up pretty badly and that is a real shame.

Posted by: Rich J | July 2, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

It's a shame these "Christians" are not as concerned with the poor and the homeless as they are with gay people. It's a shame they seem to have missed the Gospels. They are prepared to spend tens of millions of $ to stop same gender marriage in CA. How many hungry could be fed? How many naked clothed? How many homeless housed?

Posted by: ksu499 | July 2, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse

My What Big Implicatons You Have missed one: Homosexualsville, Vermont. (Now that's a place to visit, let me tell you.) Just a wide spot in the road, but what a cool place.

Posted by: Larry | July 2, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

How presumptuous is it for anyone, from filthy-rich televangelists to anonymous Internet trolls, to claim to speak for god--any god--and to know what she wants? (Answer: Tremendously.) MarkF, you have been spoon-fed a pack of lies and are simply repeating them, mindlessly. If you do indeed believe in a god, as you claim, then you *must* also believe that that god made gay people as they are. To deny that fact is to deny god. Faith and sexuality are not mutually exclusive. God gave you a brain so you could think and reason, and when you stop doing so, you stop honoring her creation. Of course, I do not believe for a moment that your mind will now change; it is permanently closed to reason and to any fact or point of view that differs in any way from your belief. I just find you now to be sad and pathetic, but what really scares me is that you (presumably) vote.

Posted by: MarkF | July 2, 2008 12:51 PM | Report abuse

Funny! A very amusing backfire on a pretentious organization.

Posted by: janye | July 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Ha hah!

Posted by: D'oh! | July 2, 2008 2:15 PM | Report abuse

Mark F,

I'm gay. I'm happy. I don't do drugs. I have a great family and great friends. I am NOT happy about how you have expressed your story as a normal one. You live your life, and the rest of us will live ours.

Thank You.

Posted by: Kevin | July 2, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Jon | July 2, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

To the poster who dubbed God as a she (I would quote your name here, but you tagged yourself as MarkF and I don't want to it to seem as if I am addressing the person populating this page with his anti-gay hatred):

To use any personal pronouns as means of referring to God, as seen in the Christian tradition, is inaccurate. The reason we are using the Christian's concept of God in this instance is because I am inferring from your post that you don't follow a deity, and since you were addressing MarkF's religion, we are going to roll with it. The use of a personal pronoun is to inflect the sex of the individual organism (being in this case?) referred to. Since Christianity is monotheistic as of at least the past 1800 years we are able to assume, from a Christian's perspective, that God does not and will not have any progeny (keep in mind that Jesus is viewed as an extension God, definitely not reproduction as we have come to understand it). If God doesn't reproduce, then it would be extremely unlikely that God has sex organs (I would say unlikely for arms, legs, and torso, for that matter. "In God's image" to my mind means conscious thought, higher level understanding, and the desire to create). It would follow that using the personal pronouns s/he to refer to God would in fact be misnomers. I assume you to be intelligent and realize that it is foolish to refer to the God MarkF was speaking of as "she" (as it is to refer to God as "he"), and therefore I fear that you might have done so solely out of intent to inflame people's emotions. In a discussion that touches on a subject as sensitive as this, there is no need to throw extra fuel into the fire. Understanding is obtained through reason and compassion, not agitation. I realize that you haven't tried to push anywhere near as many people's buttons as MarkF has, but I responded to you because in your case I feel like your intent was not malicious and it just came out as negative and derogatory (and it would take far too much effort to read all of MarkF's posts).

If you do indeed believe in a deity and you view her as female, then I apologize for reading misinterpreting your post. Anyway, enough of that digression...

We should all be aware at this point in our history that lumping together entire groups of people based on one aspect of their lives and claiming them all to be the same is poor practice. Attaching your preconceived notions to an entire group of people only serves as a crippling impediment in both self growth and civil understanding. This rings true in all cases; keep an open-mind for other races, sexual preferences, and religions. Understanding is a struggle and requires effort oftentimes, but it's much better than just flaming someone for who you (potentially inaccurately) believe them to be.

But hey, look! It's various "types" of people coming together and having fun. Novel EFF'n concept..

Posted by: Anonymous | July 2, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Mark F. I totally agree, it's way better for society when men have non-casual hetero sex with little girls, SO much more stable and good for society, not perverse at all. God didn't have anything against that kind of wholesome behavior, coz, you know, it wasn't g-a-y.

Posted by: V | July 2, 2008 5:37 PM | Report abuse


Please, just take a deep breath and give a moment of rational thought to all that you have written, including this:

"But I became increasingly troubled by myself, what was inside of me, and what I saw in the guys I met. So I pulled back from it."

That's the crux of it, isn't it? Everything else you wrote beyond that in the bazillion posts before & after those words is either (1) 100% projection of your own personal individual experience onto ALL others as a universal truth, or (2) you are a shill for AFA et al.

If it's #1, then you have blindly and repeatedly replaced "I" with "ALL human beings"...such that:

"But ALL human beings became increasingly troubled by themselves, what was inside of themselves, and what ALL human beings saw in the guys ALL human beings met. So ALL human beings should pull back from it."

I'm a happy gay woman in a wonderful long-term relationship, with about the same amounts of happiness and sadness (i.e. life's ups & downs) as anyone else, gay or straight. I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional home, and my two sisters are both straight - one has been happily married to a wonderful man for almost 40 years, the other is married and has stayed in that abusive relationship "for the sake of the children" for over 25 years. Why are BOTH of my sisters not also gay? Using your own logic, I am happy and therefore should not my unhappy sister also be happy simply because happiness is MY own personal individual experience?

Please, I hope for your sake that you get a grip and realize that you are projecting all of your torment, fears, unhappiness, depression, and dysfunctions onto others you don't even know. I, for one, would NOT spend time with anyone so very depressed and angry at life...negativity breeds negativity. (Could your practice of projecting possibly be a lifelong habit that attracted unhappy dysfunctional people into your life in the first place?) I do hope that you find some peace. Even if you have to reach for the Year of St. Paul to find it.

Posted by: Patti | July 2, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

It's so easy to get lost. The blind, the wolves - no one wants to acknowledge that they comprise the mass of humanity. Those who see, those who are sheep - they are few and far between. The road is not narrow because only some have a self-abasing sado-masochistic relationship with their creator, but because so few really even know where to turn off the main highway. Everyone just totally goes in the wrong direction. There is a trinity that actually makes sense - and one that can help redirect course: love of self, love of God, love of neighbor. From the culture that pulled "Thou art God" [Heinlein] and "God is dead" (and let's not forget who killed him) [Nietszche] out of its collective ass in roughly the same time period, it's a wonder the straight and narrow is nearly invisible to the 21st century eye amidst intrapersonal and interpersonal destruction. I read this blog and see so much pretense, so much anger, fear, self-hatred, a feigned sense of well-being, and defensiveness. The trinity of Love - and God is Love - is the only way out of this mess.

To add to the specific conversation, I will raise my hand and say that I am happily continuing in a two and a half year relationship with the man of my dreams (I'm a man, too, in case that wasn't clear). The only sadness comes from the fact that my family (both my blood and the Church) is standing on the other side of the line I've drawn because I refuse to abandon my convictions. One day we will know in full. The best we can do is lovingly let each other find our own course to God, encouraging and supporting along the way.

Posted by: Fear of the Dark | July 2, 2008 8:24 PM | Report abuse

I'm not going to use the word christian any more. Instead I'm going to say "the c word."
Yes. A double entendre.

Posted by: Phil | July 2, 2008 8:40 PM | Report abuse

"...They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless." (quoting from the fairy tale called the Bible)

This sounds like a descriptions of George W.

Posted by: Phil | July 2, 2008 8:54 PM | Report abuse

Every day I smile at the christian foundational thoughts on God, Heaven and Hell. The day I enter into Hell it will be with a smile and the simple knowledge that I was a better person than god.

But then, I prefer not to live my life in fear of an ancient fairytale written by a corrupt collection of genocidal priests. I guess I really am crazy.

Posted by: Sara Pickell | July 2, 2008 9:53 PM | Report abuse

Oh homosexual Paris! How I miss you.

Posted by: Mike | July 3, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

I call Poe's Law on MarkF.

Posted by: Damian | July 3, 2008 4:46 AM | Report abuse

I much regret MarkF's self-loathing and hope that he will reach more peace than he has at the present time. As other posters have pointed out, there is no "gay life style." I have both gay and hetero friends of several generations. Their problems with drugs, alcohol, and broken relationships are remarkably similar and have relatively little to do with gender orientation. The notable exceptions in my experience are young gay and lesbian people who are coping with massive rejection by families and churches; they are the heaviest drug users and drinkers, alas. Just a few points on religion: one can't commit adultery if s/he isn't married and her/his sex partner isn't either. That's the law in the Jewish Bible. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, though it was common in the ancient world and he could not have been unfamiliar with same sex relations, given where and when he lived. As far as we know, it just wasn't important enough for his comment. Somehow, it's easy to get caught up in the binary distinction gay/straight, forgetting that as Kinsey and others discovered, sexual orientation is better described by a continuum, whether it is 1 to 6 or some other system, suck as a (pardon the expression) inverted Bell curve. As a 4.895, I'm a happy, gay middle-aged man.

Posted by: Texun | July 3, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse


"I have to say plainly that I don't believe you if you say that you know of guys in the same-sex life who are happy."

That is the most patently ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I'm saying, literally, the most absurd thing that I have ever heard anyone utter (online or otherwise) in earnest.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: reading comments by people like you on the Washington Post's website in particular confounds my expectations of decency in people.

Posted by: Jeff | July 3, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse

MarkF's posts sound a bit too much like right-wing talking points memos to me to be true. Even if what MarkF is saying is true, it represents his personal experiences and cannot be considered a fair representation of the community as a whole.

For example a number of the straight, and married people I know struggle with depression. Probably half of my straight friends and family members are on an anti-depressant of some kind. Does that mean that married life is depressing and people take drugs to deal with the drudgery of being in a marriage with children? Probably not, more likely it just means I know a lot of people with depression issues.

For the record I'm gay and I'm content with who I am and the life I lead. I'm not a "Happy homosexual" because happiness is a manic stage, but I am content with my life.

Posted by: MarkS | July 3, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

looks like the original story got lost somewhere along the way. I must say though: I never thought that a bunch of born-again bigot could make me laugh so hard! keep up that electronic filtering. I am eagerly anticipating a whole barrelful of laughs

Posted by: howeird | July 3, 2008 1:12 PM | Report abuse

Most African leaders believe that homosexuality is an import from the western world and USA. Since MarkF carries a similar opinion, (that homosexuality is a habit) I am sure those leaders in Nigeria and other countries of Africa would be willing to employ MarkF as their agent of homosexual reformation.
I am African, I am homosexual, my only source of unhappiness is people like MarkF, when they eschew wisdom and Godliness to cling to ignorance of the first order and do such in the name and on behalf of the all-knowing-God. Nothing could be far from self-loathing projected on others.
MarkF, wrote: "Look at the depression, drug use, promiscuity and downright perversion."? Is this your life experience for real while you were self-affirming as a gay man? If yes, I agree you need real conversion and your penance is that you'd be excommunicated from the gay community, that you might not infect others with depression, drug use, promiscuity and downright perversion as you practiced.

Posted by: Ola | July 3, 2008 1:18 PM | Report abuse

How sad. A thread from a hilarious article about the sometimes unintended effects of bigotry ends up getting hijacked by a self-hating loony calling himself "MarkF" who proclaims and insists that all "same-sex" men ("same-sex"? aren't all men by definition the same sex?) must be unhappy. He trots out a litany of stereotypical woes straight out of a 1950's homophobia propaganda film (disease, addiction, depression, oh my!). He goes on and responds time and time again putting what he calls his "own experience" as this out and fab gay man and all the horror that unfolded before he found God and changed his ways.

Many people have rightfully shot down this overbearing twit and his inartful diatribes. If I could throw my two cents in as well I'd ask Mark where he was meeting all these ill, desperate people he speaks of? If he was perpetually hanging out in bars, porn shops, gay strip clubs, and bathhouses then maybe that's part of what warped his viewpoint. You meet and befriend healthy and happy people when you're doing healthy and happy things yourself. If you had this miserable 30 year experience as a gay man perhaps it's time to ask yourself what YOUR part in it was. Were YOU too selfish, shallow, compulsive, damaged to see your fellow gay men in any other way? Too many gay people leading loving lives filled with service, commitment and meaning with their friends and families deserve better than the ugly caricatures you submit, Mark.

Gay people CAN and DO lead good lives and do it as gay people! If you're reading this and young, gay and confused remember life and dignity is yours alone. We are all responsible for our own happiness. Let no one else take that away from you.

Posted by: Mike M | July 3, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse

MarkF, YOU were unhappy and depressed as a gay individual who did possibly those depraved acts behind closed doors. It is a logical fallacy to assume this implies all gays become depressed. I would be depressed if I were an airplane pilot my whole life because I'm worried about flying and I don't like loud noises-- but this doesn't mean all pilots are depressed. Get a grip. Oh, and shut up.

Posted by: Reesun | July 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

Very funny, thanks for the laugh.

Posted by: Paul A Trood | July 3, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

"You don't have to be a weatherman, to know which way the wind blows..."

The "winds of change" are gonna blow all these santimonious hypocritical self righteous delusional closet gay right winger fundamentalist American Taliban, right outta' the White House and outta Congress, and hopefully, we can push back enough on these "culture warriors" that they will shut up & sing already, for just a while, before we have to start playing "whack a mole" with them over every petty little thing that they perceive as a "threat" to their precious little bigoted, racist, homophobic lives!

That said, I do wish Gays hadn't taken the RAINBOW as their symbol, I kindof liked having the Rainbow just mean, a Rainbow!

Posted by: AtomicWarBaby | July 3, 2008 9:34 PM | Report abuse

Just a note to say that,( as most people already know through their life experience,) being Christian does not automatically mean you agree with Christians who have these negative views about gay people. The Bible has more to say, dozens of times over, about loving others than it does about anything regarding homosexuality. A great deal of what is written in the Bible was meant to be taken in the context of the times and the situation it was addressing. As far as this gentleman saying he "can't allow" people to identify themselves as Christian if they don't agree with his view - see that for what it is, the remark of a confused and hurting extremist who, in my opinion, is misguided indeed. I personally am hetero, and Christian...and hope every human being finds love in their life.

Posted by: Not a nut in the midwest | July 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

I actually went through and read most of MarkF's posts, and the one that made me laugh the hardest was when he compared himself to St. Paul. Please. He's not an apostle to the Internet, he's what appears to be a self-hating Fundamentalist who adheres to the most lunatic principles of an idiotic movement. I mean, the Bible has been interpreted to deny African people basic human rights since antiquity. Same-sex couples and same-sex sex are just one more thing that the Bible, and Christianity, will have to adapt to. Oh wait, they already have, it's just that MarkF was left behind the times. As Gandhi said: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
You know, I think they've actually isolated the gene in the human DNA strand that provides us with the "God" delusion. Fascinating stuff.

Posted by: Today's Tom Sawyer | July 4, 2008 2:52 AM | Report abuse

Such idiots.

Serves them right.

Posted by: Ynot | July 4, 2008 3:46 AM | Report abuse

I really don't understand the reasoning of this site that chose to ban the word "gay."

I am firstly, not religious, so I don't know if this is true. But, I do suspect that the Bible does use the word "gay" in it several times, to mean happiness and joyfulness. Christians, as I see it, follow the Bible becuase it was written by the Apostles and such relating Jesus. So, if they used the word "gay" (again, to mean happiness) then why force it and make it awkward by having an automatic program with "homosexual?"

As for Tyson Gay (homosexual) he is a very respectable athlete. I watched a video of him afterwards, and he was humble and thought that the wind did most of it, and that he admitted it was a strain for him. He didn't really celebrate and admitted that later on, there would later be the Olympics.

If Christians strive to be equal minded and fair approached to everyone (assuming this) then why do they single out "gay" people and the terminology "gay" on this website?

And why, this disturbs me even more, why do they have it so that they allow the word lesbian and don't allow the word gay? Isn't that sexism?

Posted by: z | July 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

This is all very scary to us Brits, most of us stopped caring whether you were black/white/brown/yellow/gay/straight/bi etc many years ago. We also stopped believing in the tooth fairy, Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny, monsters in the cupboard and stories about a man in the sky who built everything in the universe in under a week some time ago as well. It's all lies to keep kids under control and it works a treat.....but you're not kids anymore so when are you going to grow up and see that none of this God stuff is real? Have any of you actually read the bible?...No, I didn't think so, if you had you would realise how you have been taken in by the biggest con this world has ever seen (Christian/Jews/Muslims/Hebrews it doesn't matter which one...and they can't all be right so what makes yours more right than theirs? They have all pulled the same trick and you have all fallen for it because you were fed it since you were able to walk).

Anyway, MarkF is clearly a bible carrying anti-gay protester under the guise of being a born again hetro...paper thin Mark and I'm surprised so many have humoured you but maybe I'm more used to the brutality of British forums where trolls are outed and shamed without remorse. Most straight people I know are struggling to keep their marriages together and some of the happiest people I know are gay so what does that prove? Nothing really. If you are gay you are gay, if you are black you are black and if you are white you are white and a gay person has as much chance of 'wishing' themselves straight as a white person has of 'wishing' himself black. Up bringing, education and life experiences will have as much influence on changing your sexual preferences as they will on changing your skin colour, none at all, so live your life, be nice to people and take your head out of your arse and enjoy the world around you before the next religious based war destroys it all.

Posted by: GaryT | July 4, 2008 7:46 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: MarkF | July 1, 2008 2:26 PM









Posted by: Katerina Deligiannis | July 4, 2008 8:31 PM | Report abuse

come on ,everybody, give Mark some slack! if he is comfortable going back into his closet, let him do so!

Posted by: howeird | July 5, 2008 3:56 AM | Report abuse

Don we now out homosexual apparel, fa la la la la la la la

Posted by: fdawei | July 5, 2008 7:50 AM | Report abuse

One thing, GaryT. Not ALL of us Americans have the stereotypical views of MarkF. Just as I'm tired of my fellow Americans who happen to be self-righteous hypocritical Bible-thumpers I'm also sick of listening to snotty Euros with a superiority complex towards American culture. I've traveled quite a bit around Europe and you certainly have plenty of problems in your own society as well. If you're so above it all please use that superiority to keep your ignorant generalizations to yourself. Just like the rest of humanity we Americans are a mixed lot.

Posted by: Mike M | July 5, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse

I've read through most of the comments on here (including crazy ol' MarkF) and yet, the thing I am most confused about is gay people being Christians. That confuses the hell out of me. They are damned and hated by nearly 95% of their religion and yet they still cling to it. I find it pathetic and confusing that they do, but, I'm a stupid atheist going to hell anyways, so whom am I to say anything?

Posted by: Odd | July 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Report abuse

enough've given MarkF a pulpit to preach from. Cut him loose for Pete's sake. BORING!!!

Thanks for the article though. Best laugh I've had all week. Poor Tyson Gay. I would bet this isn't the kind of acclaim he would have wanted for his accomplishment.

Posted by: Carol | July 5, 2008 2:29 PM | Report abuse

So not all Americans are stereotypical are they Mike M? (I never said MarkF was typical of All yanks so please learn to read). So your pent up aggression towards Europeans and believing we have a superiority complex over you Americans is not stereotypical at all is it? And when the topic of conversation is about being 'gay' and how the lord God will smite down anyone with homosexual tendencies, you feel the need to point out that everywhere in the world (not just the good old U S of A) has problems...well derr! Tell me something I don't know? And just to make sure you keep well and true on your "yanks hate everyone else" bandwagon, I'm glad to see you rounded off with a good old fashioned "keep your ignorant generalizations to yourself." Good work fella, you have just proved what an ignorant stereotypical fool you really are. If you are feeling any sort of inferiority complex I can assure you, it is all of your own making because I never said anything about non yanks being superior, you just feel you are and there's not much I can do about that. As for my generalisations being ignorant, I think you will find they have been well thought out and based on an awful lot of evidence but I'm sure that's not something you need to bother your opinions with.

PS Christianity is not an American culture, how bloody arrogant are you to think it is?

Posted by: GaryT | July 5, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

This is just more BS about nothing.Why is that everyone has to make so much noise about themselves.Why couldn"t he just run without his sexual preference involved.I don't mention that I'm straight when I talk to people.Why is that when some one rapes and murders children,shoots someone for there car,invades a home,why is that noy a hate crime.Why does it have to be a minority or Gays in order to be hate?Why don't we have have straight parades?How many love crimes have you heard of?What rights do you need?Who is interested in your sex behavior other than you and your partener?I love my animals,should I have civil unions with them,how about a parade for people who want to marry there animals.Since there area number of gay animals,it would really no be strange at all.I'm not an expert,I've heard many gays say that they were a twin,they say the highest percentage of gays are twins.Are there twins gay?Dr LeVay,the neurologist that started the "we were born his way "is a gay man.Oddly he cautioned against reaching any conclusions until more research was done.And many studies since have discounted this.I wonder how much tax money went into this.If I was having sex with another man I wouldn't be marching in any parades.

Posted by: conservmyusa | July 6, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse

The whole "gay" "homosexual" furore just goes to show how infantile one can become when trying to further their narrow religious point of view.

How does one remove one of the basic factors of childhood - that of being happy and gay - amidst shrieking bouts of laughter as hoards of children frolic about in the playground.

The words "gay" and homosexual are synonymous and are non-gender specific.

Only in a country obsessed with PC can the origin of words become twisted to mean something sinister.

For decades back in South Africa - Enid Blyton's Black Beauty was banned as it was though to depict black women as beautiful (which those of us who are not caught up in pathetic negativites) know to be true.

Simialrly, when hoards of South Africans came to realise that their favourite R&B artist/balladeer - Nat King Cole was indeed a black man - they destroyed their LP's - by breaking them or building mini-bonfires.

It's ironic - that in our "feeble" attempt in pursuing progress as species - we constantly prove all the anthropologists wrong by reverting back to archaic - if not draconian mindsets ... sigh ...

Quite honestly, The Church definietly does not have the formula for exercising moral values - given their history of invading undeveloped countries and the free uses of many methods of torture.

To put this in perspective - Ahmedinajad is merely following your lead in hanging tose guilty of being homosexuals.

Posted by: owen greenland | July 6, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse

Poor Mark F. has a real problem if he is not just faking it. Sounds fishy to me. We certainly don't need homosexuals like him. He might note that things are not all candy and roses on the straight side either. In the mean time, keep your misery to yourself.

Posted by: Mike | July 6, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Why don't these people get a life ???? I guess the wording of Foster's song would have to read, "gone are the days when our hearts were young and homosexual" The song "Old Black Joe" was always revered by many back then, now it is considered racial. When will we ever, if possible. go back to the time when being political correct is gone. Remember Murphy's law and get a life.

Posted by: bkmj | July 6, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse

Mark F, I'm sorry you couldn't find happiness as who you are. I'm guessing that you're still unhappy as a not-really-ex-gay "ex-gay."

Posted by: Anonymous | July 6, 2008 10:08 PM | Report abuse

Why people choose to live their lives by a book written so long ago by HUMANS claiming to have been inspired by God - CHANGED again and again over thousands of years, re-copied BY HAND by priests who were the only ones in power and able to WRITE - is beyond me.

Gee, d'ya THINK they may have added or changed a few sentences here and there such as "man shalt not lay with man" or some other such nonsense that goes against the beauty of real creation (what is real -->HAPPY GAY MEN AND WOMEN!) - to suit their own agenda which is to KEEP THEM IN POWER?

C'mon people, get a life and realize that to choose one religion is simply by definition separatist and elitist - and KEEPS YOU FROM TRULY LOVING ALL.

Even MarkF can't argue the fact that Christianity has caused the most deaths and war and suffering throughout the ages....

Posted by: a. | July 6, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

My how the evangelfundierethuglicans are getting all fussy about 3 letters-GAY, it's their latest after getting in a tizzy about Rachel Ray's scarf. You KNOW they are losing it.

Posted by: JL | July 7, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse

While christianity seems to be the biggest problem here (see MarkF for definition of "problem"), religion in general seems to be a really good reason for explaining peoples bigotries and intolerance...
Article made me laugh - to bad i got sucked up into reading all this comment bullsh*t though!

Posted by: Religion?? | July 8, 2008 12:42 PM | Report abuse

What I don't understand is how substituting the word 'homosexual' for the word 'gay' does anything at all, positive or negative. Couldn't we easily make the case that the group was simply trying to find a seemingly more polite way to refer to people of a same-sex lifestyle. I don't advocate that interpretation, but I must offer it as a possibility. Granted, I don't know anything about the organization.

Posted by: J. Hill | July 8, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Mark F is using the same arguments, with some refinements, that Jim Crow advocates used to legitimize their campaign of inequality...that the "other" is inherently promiscuous and given to vice, emotionally immature, incapable of being good people, even if they might do good things now and then.

There are differences, of course. Gay people come in all hues, so the hysteria about "passing" is different. Back then, passing as "white" was seen as hypocrisy and fraudulent attainment of white privilege. Now, passing as straight is considered therapeutic and protect the illusion of straight as the measure of all people.

One thing that's the completely define a person is to own him, they think. That's why the religious right uses the prissy, scientific coined and obsolete Victorianism of "homosexual" instead of respecting Gay people by using the consensus name they have given themselves. Name it, and claim it, after all, is an influential theology in the religious right. If you deny that people, but scientific specimens to be treated as objects to be manipulated as you please...well, you don't hear much praise of humanism in the religious right.

The Pauline verse that we are all one in Christ Jesus is interpreted as...those who aren't one in Christ Jesus aren't "we," and Gay people aren't allowed to be a "we" unless they denounce their neighbors, instead of loving their neighbors. The Golden Rule is seldom if ever mentioned in religious right statements of faith.

Posted by: Greg P | July 8, 2008 10:40 PM | Report abuse

If I were Tyson Gay I would put these people out of business with a law suit that would take all these dizzy right wing nuts out of circulation for the good of everyone. I just heard a rumor that Obama's birth cirtificate says he is white. Where that came from might be from this same nut house

Posted by: bkmj | July 9, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Mary Ann is a waste of life.

Posted by: Anonymous | July 9, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Tyson Gay should really sue his parents for being Gay in the first place.

Posted by: time to chase me some abulances | July 9, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

To MarkF- Just so you can cross this off your list, come and look at my family. My parents, 89 and 90 years old will be celebrating their 70th anniversary soon. They started their own business in the waning days of the depression which has grown into an international firm employing nearly 300 people. They are the pillars of their community,churches, schools, even as my father fades from alzheimer's. The business is now in the hands of a 3rd generation, and still leads it field and is respected around the world, and around the neighborhood. The now many families get together for holidays, etc and suffer fewer than average interfamily arguments. My partner of 10 years, with whom I owned a gay business, was welcomed into the family. And this is all in a very small conservative town. I came out to my classmates in my senior year- 1974 - without any problems. So what is yours?

Posted by: Kris Marshall | July 10, 2008 6:49 AM | Report abuse


Ironically, did you know that the word "gay" means happy? Look it up in the dictionary, oh uneducated and brainwashed one

Posted by: b. | July 12, 2008 7:07 PM | Report abuse

I'm not sure their policy is 100% to replace gay with the 'h' word.

I did a goggle search of their site "gay site:" and found multiple references using the gay word. Including "gay marriage," "gay basher,"gay friends," "gay pride," etc. Obviously, their software still has bugs as saying "homosexual marriage," "homosexual pride," "homosexual basher," or "homosexual friends" would be more in line to their train of thought.

What would be nice is for them to trust their readers enough, but then I guess they can't risk people filtering news for themselves. At least, they are up front in saying where their bias leads them and that is positive compared to simply hiding it.

Posted by: Bertram Moshier | July 12, 2008 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Cassie | July 13, 2008 7:52 PM | Report abuse

I'm a man and I love penis!!!

Posted by: spool | July 15, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

Let me first say that I love homosexuals. God does too. Jesus came to Earth to die for all of us who were born confused and separated from God.

I am a Christian who believes that God has declared that homosexuality is a sin , but I do not believe in gay-bashing. The Holy scriptures are very clear, but only to those who choose to believe in faith. God has designed his Word so that those who choose not to believe will be blinded from understanding. God does not grant wisdom to those who refuse to accept His truth.

Child-like faith in God and obedience to Him without our own selfish agendas opens up the true meaning of the Holy scriptures and removes the scales from our spiritual eyes.

Just as God created food to nourish our bodies, he created sex for procreation. But selfishness has convinced us that the pleasure is the purpose. Sex outside of the boundaries of God's procreative design is just like chewing food then spitting it out.

You can call me crazy, ignorant, or whatever you want, but what I have said has been motivated by love for you. Trust and obey God and your eyes will also be opened.

Posted by: VernonG | July 15, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse

MarkF, I truly pity you. You are a terrible bigot. May you be given mercy.

Posted by: Joe | July 15, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse

Why would the word Gay be wrong anyways despite being his last name that shouldn't be offensive to christians seeing homosexuality is against god

Posted by: Kenneth | July 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Report abuse

MarkF needs to take the stick, no tree, outta his rear

Posted by: abcdefg | July 15, 2008 2:07 PM | Report abuse

This world is going completely mad. Cant say g-a-y, cant say black, cant say anything against Islam, cant fly the English flag in case it upsets anyone. Whoever thought of 'Political Correctness' should burn in hell.

Normal people need to rise up and say 'No more' .. Get back our freedom of speach. My Grandfather is spinning in his grave after fighting so hard to earn our freedom, for us to be giving it away so easily.

Posted by: Mark The Savage | July 16, 2008 5:40 AM | Report abuse

The problem with Mark F's points that no one has mentioned (unless I missed it sorry) is that he assumes homosexuality is wrong because it doesn't work for him and a large number of others....then he works backwards to find causes, religious reasons etc. This is much like reviewing files of Gay men in the 50's who went to the psychiatrist and concluding all Gay men have mental illness. Mark F - I'm sorry you're so unhappy - but as others have pointed out, everything you said can be applied to straight society. And think of the support they have - all the social and religious conventions and still there are huge numbers of divorces etc. One more thought - you've said you did TV, newspapers etc. in college, were out and open. How about a real name?

Posted by: Jaroslaw | July 16, 2008 8:09 AM | Report abuse

I believe the world is coming to terms with the reality that religion IS terrorism. Strip away the pseudo peace and you are left with a group selling fear and the salve to comfort the fearful.

Earth Primates Unite or Die

Posted by: Stephen | July 16, 2008 12:08 PM | Report abuse

I hope that MarkF can get some help. He seems deeply disturbed, and very off. Like those cult followers who commit mass suicide. You can be happy, there is a way. Maybe go back to being gay because there is a reason why they call homosexuals gay.

Posted by: Chihiro | August 16, 2008 2:15 AM | Report abuse

Its funny that Christians dont like homosexuality but theyre ok with incest n slavery. Cuz if you read the Bible Lot totally gets raped by his daughters and it seems to be a good thing. I thought it was hella disgusting. And the slavery thing everyone knows about, you know Joseph n all.

Posted by: Keiki | August 16, 2008 2:24 AM | Report abuse

From MarkF first post:

And believe me, what goes on behind closed doors and in private is far worse than what you've been lead to believe in the media.


Homos do exactly the same things heteros do behind closed doors.

Yes, because the heteros like the "back-way" too, you know?

Can't think of anything that the ones do and the others dont.

MarkF have big problems with his homosexuality, and really needs help.

Posted by: ForgiveMyEnglish | August 17, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

MarkF, your story is inspiring. Don't be deterred from telling it by these mindless automatons who attack you. These people are like the Khmer Rouge children in the movie "The Killing Fields:" thoroughly brainwashed political fanatics who would obediently kill their own mothers and fathers in service to their masters. They can't see this, of course. They think they're educated and forward-thinking. This is what they've been told by those who use them, so how could it not be true?

Their egos are easily manipulated; they respond predictably to flattery and the offer of rewards. What they don't have, unfortunately, is even one finger on the truth. They have sold their birthright for a mess of pottage, and they have nothing to look forward to but an eternity of torment in return. You are one of the lucky few who have turned on your brain before it was too late and escaped, MarkF. As I'm sure you do, you must thank God for that.

Posted by: JamesN | August 17, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Hey all,

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. Look, Mark F, I - like others here - have sympathy for your personal struggles, but you have decided that they qualify you to make conclusions about the lives of millions of diverse individuals.

I myself grew up in a loving, wonderful household in a lesbian community in the 1970s. When you condemn the "same-sex lifestyle" you not only betray your own fundamentalist Christian agenda, but you denigrate my family, which you know nothing about.

I respect people who make choices for themselves, but think before you judge the lives of so many others. It's arrogant and destructive.

Posted by: D | August 17, 2008 9:46 PM | Report abuse

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