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Weekly Wrap: A Birth Certificate By Any Other Name

It seems nothing will deter the conspiracy theorists known as birthers, who have become the bane of the Republican Party's existence with their (dare we say wacky) claim that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and, therefore, is not a natural born citizen.

Birthers who commented on our Thursday posting generally continued to claim that Obama has not produced a true birth certificate, and that the document he produced last year is a fake.

They're also fixated on the type of birth document issued by the Hawaiian government, which is called a "certification of live birth." They refuse for some reason to believe that a certification is the same as a birth certificate.

By all rational accounts, the two documents are most certainly one and the same, only with different titles. (Calling Shakespeare.)

A certification of live birth is the "official birth certificate" of Hawaii, according to the state's Department of Health spokeswoman, Janice Okubo. And the nonpartisan, nonprofit Factcheck.org, which examined Obama's original birth certificate last year at the president's campaign headquarters in Chicago, concluded, "It meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship."

To those who continue to speculate Obama's birth certificate was destroyed, Hawaiian health department officials answered that point of hysteria as well this week.

"We don't destroy vital records," Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records." State health officials said the original birth certificate, the same one reviewed by Factcheck.org, is back in storage in Hawaii.

But still, the birthers ask, why won't President Obama release his original birth certificate and possibly bury the issue once and for all?

The Wall Street Journal has an excellent answer to this question: "Why should he? The demand has no basis in principle and would have no practical benefit."

James Taranto writes in his "Best of the Web" column, "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.

"The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not 'resolve the issue' to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today's birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday's is as well."

As White House press secretary Robert Gibbs put it this week, "If I had some DNA, it wouldn't assuage those that don't believe he was born here. But I have news for them and for all of us: The president was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, the 50th state of the greatest country on the face of the Earth. He's a citizen."

By Mary Ann Akers  |  July 31, 2009; 4:15 PM ET
 
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Comments

Birthers aren't republicans. Birthers are seekers of truth and honesty in elections and the rule of law!

To all the people that say Obama is legitimate, I would like to know if your decision was based on faith or facts? If it’s faith, I’m not persuaded. If it’s based on facts, show them to the world so we can evaluate them for ourselves!

If Obama has a long-form, why doesn’t he show it? If he doesn’t have one, why not? People that hide things, usually have something to hide. He works for us. We have a right to know! We have a right to demand it!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to send a message to Obama and to EVERY OTHER POTENTIAL VIOLATOR OF OUR RULE OF LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US THE LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!

Birthers need to start demanding a new law to prove “natural-born” status for future presidential elections. Obama’s position on that legislation will “show his hand.”

Posted by: steveb777 | July 31, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Birthers don't exist. The liberal media invented them to make the administration's opponents look like delusional morons.

Posted by: DupontJay | July 31, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

steveb777,

I couldn't tell: Do you really believe what you wrote or are you making fun of the idiots who say things like that?

Posted by: loveconquersfear | July 31, 2009 4:46 PM | Report abuse

Ah the irony! Does anyone remember when the issue of place of birth and Natural born citizen first came up? It was about McCain... because he was born in Panama when his Navy officer father was stationed there. Explanation at the time: he was born at the US Naval hospital, which was considered American soil for the purpose of defining "natural born citizen".

Posted by: PatHarrison | July 31, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Yeah right steveb, you are delusional moron, and a republican.

Posted by: ualec1 | July 31, 2009 4:48 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: steveb777 | July 31, 2009 4:39 PM |

"Birthers aren't republicans."

You're right steve, birthers aren't republicans, they're gullible fools and morons. Oh wait, that's the definition of republicans. Ok, their intellectually lazy bigots. Oh, darn, that's a definition of republicans too. Well, you're just wrong steve - birthers ARE republicans.

Posted by: NotFooledTX | July 31, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

steveb777, I don't have a long form birth certificate, does that mean I'm not an American citizen either?

Posted by: zn123 | July 31, 2009 4:55 PM | Report abuse

No further action need be taken to "end the discussion" or to "end the questions". The discussion is closed by order of the US Supreme Court, whose Chief Justice administered the Oath of Office of President of the United States, and by order of the Senate of the United States whom confirmed the electoral college voting results.

The discussion is OVER.

Anyone applying for a passport would get a certificate from their state of birth similar to that issued to Barack Obama and the same as publicly circulated and displayed. The Constitution does not require special forms of birth certificates to appease racist subversives undermining the presidency using falsified Kenya documentations and claims.

When it comes down to who do you trust, the STATE of HAWAII is trusted over unknown Kenyan alleged witnesses. STANLEY ANN Obama, Barack's mother, was unable to travel to Kenya for medical reasons, and an infant returning with her would not be admitted into the US for medical reason -- it didn't happen and was medically impossible due to Yellow Fever Virus Vaccination medical requirements.

Pregnant women were not vaccinated and infants under 1-year-old were not vaccinated. It didn't happen.

Stanley Ann was in classes at University of Hawaii before the birth -- there was no prolonged absence from classes. Barack Obama Senior was conspicuous as the FIRST-EVER BLACK STUDENT at University of Hawaii, and was not absent from classes before or after the birth.

The only conspiracy is the criminal fraud conspiracy falsifying documentation purporting that there are witnesses in Kenya who allegedly attended the alleged Kenyan birth. These felony fraudsters need to be punished with severe prison sentences, including those aiding and abetting after the fact, because they have undermined military good order and have already caused at least one officer to refuse orders of assignment caused by the fraud crime. This is not harmless political tug-of-war but actual treason. Traitors must be punished for undermining America's security during a time of war.

Posted by: know1 | July 31, 2009 4:56 PM | Report abuse

Steveb777,
Did you not read the article. If proof is what you want, then go to Hawaii and find out for youeself. Better yet there are numerous websites, newspapers, real books and library reading material to support the certificate of birth. I must admit though as you hide in your cloak of racism you also my not be able to read. If you can read never mind.

Posted by: babygeo | July 31, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

So, they're certain he wasn't born in Hawaii, and just as certain that he was born in Kenya? How do they know that? I kinda doubt Kenya keeps better birth records than a US state.... or is time-travel involved somehow? Has Obama violated the Temporal Prime Directive? Tune in to Farce News tonight....

Posted by: gmcduluth | July 31, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

steveb777 and all you 'birthers'....you did notice that the House voted on a proclamation for Hawaii a few days ago that specifically stated that Obama was born in Hawaii. NOT ONE of your supposed 'birther-leaning' Representatives voted against the bill. You are complete loons...but please keep in the news. The GOP doesn't want to recognize you because of the loony problem, but doesn't want to alienate your votes, so they really don't care what you believe. This saps that intelligent side of the GOP, which benefits the majority who support Obama. Birthers - keep on fighting!! It's very entertaining!!

Posted by: ben16 | July 31, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

"If it’s based on facts, show them to the world so we can evaluate them for ourselves!"

The burden of proof is not on me or anyone else to disprove a baseless accusation that has no evidence to back it up. It's on you to prove through evidence.

Posted by: jeema | July 31, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Wouldn't Obama be a natural born citizen even if he was born in Kenya? (which I am NOT saying he was) After all, nobody is debating that his mother is an American citizen by birth.

Posted by: danfromphilly | July 31, 2009 5:07 PM | Report abuse

I, for one do think that the state of Hawaii should entrust the original doc to the Smithsonian Institution and have it exposed (encased in a protective clear box) for a period of time at the History Museum or one of these institutions (but not the Science Museum- as i am sure it will be called Science Fiction Museum on that occasion).

but i do agree in general that this will not put this baby to rest. But at least, DC will get an influx of business. and you can readily tell Lou Dobbs and the likes to get off their soap-box and see for themselves.

My biggest concern is with the President's safety. it is bad enough to have the first Black president contenting with the White Supremacists and Bin Laden Terrorist. Now he'll have to deal with misinformed "patriot" protecting the nation's integrity and constitution. Who is to blame in that case? The press for ignoring this fringe rumor and not addressing it? or the Republicans, looking to strike political points by perpetuating and in some cases flaming this rumor?

Posted by: UnitedinTx | July 31, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

You know there are people who are morons and even with the best education they can get, they remain morons. These birthers, qualify and I wish they would get a life. Follows the same line that the the death of 6 millions Jews in WW II never happened.

Posted by: bantrybay01 | July 31, 2009 5:11 PM | Report abuse

I can think of no better reason for Obama NOT to release his original birth certificate than the fact that these wingnuts keep demanding it. Why on earth should the president of the USA appease idiots like these? Maybe you want to tell him what color tie he should wear or what the family should have for dinner as well? Legal documentation was produced, a legal election, a legal congress accepted the election results and a legal Supreme Court justice swore him in. This is all just thinly cloaked racism from folks who cant stand the fact that we have a black president.

Posted by: MarcMyWords | July 31, 2009 5:13 PM | Report abuse

Yeah yeah yeah...the one thing for sure is that had McCain gotten into the WH this little noise would not have been heard. But God forbid, a black man has entered the domain until recently reserved for white folks and all hell breaks loose...Really what does it take? Let us just assume that Obama's father was German or Swiss would we be talking about this?

Posted by: irebuka | July 31, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Obama's birth certificate was posted on line last year because it wasn't his place of birth that was questioned, but his middle name. He was accused of changing his middle name from Mohammed, as if that would be any better than Hussein (please excuse the spelling). This whole birther issue would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic and sad.

Posted by: zn123 | July 31, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

We should not call these people "birthers" as they do not merit a title.

Fact: the same birth certificate process that others received in Hawaii is what Obama has, and the state records verify it. Not in dispute.

Fact: No transportation evidence has emerged to indicate that the father or mother of this child was out of the country at the time of his birth.

Fact: Newspapers of record (2) in Hawaii published a record of his live birth and these are required of a birth in the islands, not available to those that can receive a birth certificate from Hawaii when not born there.

Fact: Obama was duly elected by majority and certified by the electoral college, via the Senate he and has sworn to uphold and defend the constitution of the U.S.

Fact: It's time to focus on something important. Two wars, healthcare, economy, economic fairness and equity, education, infrastructure, energy development and the environment, cyber-security, debt, etc.

Posted by: morgangale | July 31, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

I know for a fact that in the great state of Missouri the ONLY type of birth certificate that is ever provided to ANY person that requests a copy of the birth records is the Certification of Live Birth (the "short form"). It is not possible for ANY person in Missouri to get a "long form" or copy thereof. This was funny because a bunch of MO repubs tried to create a "birther" law that would require all future candidates to office to supply MO with a "long form" in order to run, until they found out they were all preventing themselves from future office since Missouri doesn't do long forms.

Posted by: simkatu | July 31, 2009 5:17 PM | Report abuse

I know for a fact that the Hawaii "Certification of Live Birth" is fake, because Hawaii does not exist.

"Scientists" point out "Hawaii" on their "Globes", but the indisputable fact is that Hawaii is off of the edge of Earth's disk, and if Hawaii was where they said it was, it would be on the bottom of the disk of the Earth, and everything there would fall off.

If you don't agree with me, you are stupid and uninformed. I know it's true because I read it on the internets.

Some people claim to have been to "Hawaii", but they have been fooled by the government. They were taken in planes to Norton Air Force Base and placed in virtual reality simulators.

Posted by: CessnaDriver | July 31, 2009 5:25 PM | Report abuse

We knew this would happen. There are those for whom Obama can not be President because it invalidates their own carefully contructed world view. In that world, the only way a Black Man could ever become the POTUS would be by an illegal conspiracy against Whites.

This is a story that only has legs in the Republican bastion of Southern States. You can hear the sound of their bigoted heads popping, one by one, in frustration and anger. It's a beautiful sound.

Posted by: thebobbob | July 31, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

Actually the conspiracy began when the newspapers in Hawaii published announcements of live births in their papers back in August 1964 knowing that one day a hapa (mixed birth) man would become president in the United States.

Obviously those in charge of those newspapers 44-45 years ago should be charged with conspiracy to defraud the American people having published that list of live births in Hawaii which included Mr. Obama!

Can I be certified as a complete nut? Of course!!!

Posted by: tommui | July 31, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

steveb777 wrote:

Birthers aren't republicans. Birthers are seekers of truth and honesty in elections and the rule of law!

----------------------------------------

Let me add to that. Some have mentioned Republicans, gullible fools, delusional morons and bigots as people wanting the proof of Obama's birth.

"Birthers" are people that want the same for Democrats as for Republicans (or Conservatives, for that matter.) If a full-fledged Congressional hearing was held on Senator McCain, why not was the same held for Senator Obama? Why the (Democratic) waste of taxpayers dollars for such a hearing? It smacks of (reverse)bigotry and more "Acorn"ish tactics.

The time tested "Do unto others..." applies here.

Posted by: leo_nard71 | July 31, 2009 5:27 PM | Report abuse

"Birthers are seekers of truth and honesty in elections and the rule of law! To all the people that say Obama is legitimate, I would like to know if your decision was based on faith or facts? If it’s faith, I’m not persuaded".

Birther, you seek neither truth or honesty or you would look at yourself first. Get a clue, pursuading you is unnecessary and irrelevant, and nobody other than those like you cares if you are not pursuaded! Who appointed you arbitrators? Nobody. No need to pander to those like you whose weird beliefs don't matter any more than those who believe the world is flat. The Supreme Court, Congress, even most of political opponents and the State of Hawaii have definitively settled this matter once and for all. Birthers truly are the equivalent of Flat Earthers, and their claims in the face of reality are equally silly. No information will satisfy these bigots and conspiracy buffs looking for a pretext. Even though the scenario of his being born in Kenya is impossible for a variety of reasons and it wouldn't matter anyway because his mother was a citizen, even though birthers espouse false assertions about what kind of birth certificate is needed, even though the original has been certified by reputable authorities, the birthers will never accept reality. Birthers would always claim pictures are faked and documents are forged even if the original was produced. Setting an unconsitutional precedent of pander to extremists like the Birthers would be abig mistake. Stand firm against the Birther extremists!

Posted by: meshanti1 | July 31, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

And John McCain was born in PANAMA - not a State. So I ask the 'birthers' - how would John McCain be better than President Obama if McCain was also born in a foreign country?

Oh I get it. It is only an issue because of Obama's race, isn't it? Birthers are really just bigots in disguise.

Posted by: Fjet2020 | July 31, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

For the real truth about the nut job birthers go to http://pardontheparody.com/?p=54

Posted by: johndoe14 | July 31, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

PLEASE get over this!! The press is what is keeping it alive!
There must be some real NEWS out there some where.

Posted by: southener | July 31, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

People have said--and continue to say--that Obama is a socialist, secretly a Muslim, not an American. These all imply roughly the same thing: He's not like us. He doesn't belong here. He's different. As far as I can tell, what they all mean is "A Black person shouldn't be president."

Posted by: lkleinman | July 31, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

When I had to obtain a passport the STate Department would not recognize a statement of live birth but required me to obtain an actual copy of a birth certificate from my state. Why is that different for others?

Posted by: plmcleod | July 31, 2009 5:34 PM | Report abuse

steveb777
I totally agree with you! as a matter of fact you should take on the Palin case. I am not convinced that a "state" that is not physically attached to the USA is a state. It would be easier for all the folks out there if you could prove that Hawaii is not a state! That would solve once and for all the Obama citizenship, and perhaps we could make a coin in the process. We can sell it to Japan, or Dubai, and do not foget Alaska please, who needs all them foreigners! Power to the white folks! Right on!!

Posted by: hugoeac | July 31, 2009 5:35 PM | Report abuse

Ironic how the same folks who demand President Obama show them his records would cry foul and violation of privacy rights if anyone asked them to show theirs.

Posted by: MadisonWI | July 31, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

The Post and the WSJ have not done their homework. The birth certificate is a distraction.

Obama maintains that he was subject to British rule at the time of his birth. From FactCheck:
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children."

SO ASK YOURSELF THIS:
HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN’S STATUS BE “GOVERNED” BY GREAT BRITAIN?

If this or any journalist wants to do real research start at this legal blog that actual has all relevant case information:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/the-relevant-obama-admission-2/

For an analysis of the WSJ article go here:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/wall-street-journal-caught-spreading-false-legal-propaganda-via-james-taranto/

The Obama docs:
http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

Posted by: s1234 | July 31, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

why does everybody keep saying that obama is a blace president, when he has a white mother and is a muslim, in my opion he is just as much white as he is black and he is definetly a muslim. remember his full name 'HUSSEn" just like huduem hussen. i am not prediduce, if he was any other black person in high office and had got elected president it would be just as proud as to have a black president as a white president. but the truth is the truth, the musslems have been wanting to take over our country and what better way than for us to elect a muslem as president. there are a lots of black men and women that i think would make a good president, condelessa rice is one of them. and several men i have seen as senators or rep. i think that he should be honest enought to produce his original birth certificate. it is very easy to fake any documents to day.

Posted by: cjohnson7777charternet | July 31, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

TO: Steve
Re: "If Obama has a long-form, why doesn’t he show it? If he doesn’t have one, why not? People that hide things, usually have something to hide."

The rule of law is: there is no presumption of guilt, it must be proven. If I call you a traitor, it is not on you to prove you are not, it is on me to show evidence.

Assume Obama is a citizen born in Hawaii, but when he left to Indonesia as a young child he had to renounce his citizenship to attend school, because it was Indonesian law that only Indonesian citizens could attend school.

On his return to the US, according to US law at the time, he had to validate his citizenship because he had denounced it, it didn't matter that he was a young child. The rule was created for cases like his. Now on his return, we don't have that piece of paper that he took the time to revalidate his citizenship.

Because of our convoluted immigration laws, worse than the IRS, because of a technicality, Obama is likely our first Illegal Immigrant President, born in this country, lived overseas, renounces citizenship technically, and technically doesn't cure the error.

There is evidence. A law suit was field by a former Democratic Governor, dissmmissed for lack of standing, not for lack of a good argument.

Stop arguing that does who have nothing to hide should just allow you to inspect them, it is your job to have evidence, not just accusations. Unless of course, you want to be just as bad as the people you hate.

Love, Faithful Heretic

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 5:43 PM | Report abuse

To Steveb777: Are you aware John McCain was born in Panama which is not part of the U.S. If you want a conspiracy why not make it bi-partisian.

Posted by: Roger21 | July 31, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

To danfromphilly: You are correct, and that is the biggest fact lost in this entire idiotic debate.

A "natural-born citizen" is someone who is a citizen from birth. As opposed to a "naturalized citizen", which obtains their citizenship after birth.

There are only two ways to become a natural-born citizen. The first is to be born on American soil. As Obama has proven.

The other is to be born to an American citizen, naturalized or otherwise. It does not matter if you were born on the moon. If your mother or father is an American citizen, so are you. Especially your mother, since that's a pretty hard relationship to fake.

So even if Obama was born in Kenya (which he wasn't), he is still a citizen because Stanley Ann Dunham was a citizen. It is the reason that Americans traveling abroad do not have to obtain citizenship post-natally for their babies that are accidentally born on vacation. And I have not seen anyone try to deny Stanley's citizenship. Considering that even most birthers wouldn't be able to produce a birth certificate of any type for their ancestors of that age, we can not require it for Stanley, and this case should be closed.

Posted by: catie22 | July 31, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

Republicans are such frothingly insane loons. They're all racist Creationist extremists, it looks like, without a shred of intelligence among them. All appear to have George W. Bush IQs ranked right up there in the mid 70s.

Posted by: DamOTclese | July 31, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

...and the earth is flat.

Posted by: blarsen1 | July 31, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

If it isn't some kook claiming that Obama is an illegal alien, it is some kook claiming that George W. Bush stole two elections.

What is it about kooks and politics anyway?

Posted by: BGuardian | July 31, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

"birthers, who have become the bane of the Republican Party's existence"

You made a typo. You meant "base of the Republican Party's existence."

Posted by: light_bearer | July 31, 2009 5:47 PM | Report abuse

It is possible to get more info, as photostats of long form birth certificates for twins born in Honolulu the day after Obama have been released. But the place of birth doesn't settle the issue: did Pres. Obama become an Indonesian citizen when he was adopted and taken to Indonesia by his stepfather? On what country's passport did he travel around the world in 1981? What citizenship did he claim as a college and law student? John McCain's citizenship was fully examined in the public eye. Why is Pres. Obama exempt from full disclosure?

Posted by: donnabethell1 | July 31, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

This is an example of how the human brain "works": if we believe there is a question, there must be a satisfactory answer, ie, one that will give us the experience of satisfaction.
It need have nothing to do with reality. Note however such things come up frequently where the "payoff" is huge! Where some humongous mischief can be involved.
Like coming up with some unaccepted "facts" about Jesus. Like, what if Jesus didn't exist. Or the other side, what if he did and everyone is really really going to hell?
Lots of fun.
Of the class of discussions "does god exist".

Posted by: gberke | July 31, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

Wow, the nut-cases are coming out of the woodwork. Maybe Obama doesn't HAVE his original birth certificate; stranger things have happened than losing your original birth certificate.

And if he does have it, why would he want to fan the flames of these wackos by heeding their wishes? It would just open another can of worms; he doesn't have to prove ANYTHING to these nutty people. No matter what he does, or what kind of documentation he provides, they won't believe it anyway!

Posted by: mavisdarling | July 31, 2009 5:53 PM | Report abuse

I am very surprised that the real motive here, has not been called out. The birth certificate is a non-issue. If Barack Obama has a US Passport, he has a valid birth certificate, and that would be the one from Hawaii.

This whole hoo-ha is calculated to distract the voting public from the phenomenal reality of real health care reform. Just as in the days of slapstick, when Stooge Moe would point and say "Look, Santa Claus!", this "birther" crap is just an infantile ploy the right wing-nuts are still using to gain media attention. And it's working. Too bad!

Posted by: ejwillia | July 31, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are a problem for the Republican Party that is trying to get more middle of the road voters to swing right. Birthers are a benefit to the Democratic Party. Birthers and their quest for their Holy Grail are a minor irritation to those Republicans who are attempting to appear relevant and the solution to today's problems.

Democrats? We find the whole thing amusing and illuminating as to how weird and irrational people are getting in this day and age. Why they think they have some special license to check birth certificates reminds me a bit of the early fifties when some citizens demanded others prove they weren't communists.

So the entertainment value is high. Andrew Spring said "The mark of a good conspiracy theory is its untestability." And Hunter S. Thompson said "It hasn't gotten weird enough yet."

I hope all these bozo's get seriously worked up over it. I hope they start hyperventilating about the fact that we are working hard to cover up his real birth place.

Oh gosh. Maybe I shouldn't have let that slip out. Sorry about that.

Posted by: patrick10 | July 31, 2009 5:54 PM | Report abuse

Stanley Ann was in classes at University of Hawaii before the birth -- there was no prolonged absence from classes. Barack Obama Senior was conspicuous as the FIRST-EVER BLACK STUDENT at University of Hawaii, and was not absent from classes before or after the birth.

Posted by: know1 | July 31, 2009 4:56 PM
-------------------------------------------

She was 7 to 9 months pregnant and going to school during the summer term? And there was no prolonged absence (whatever your definition of "prolonged" happens to be) even for childbirth? Tough woman. You can support this, of course. How about a link to her class attendance records since you must have reviewed them.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Yes, the WSJ has it right - why should the president have to submit "proof" to this group of looney-birds? These people should get a life of their own and stop polluting the atmosphere. Anyone in congress who joins this group should be institutionalized after being thrown out of office. This is a reflection on their fitness, judgment, intelligence, and common sense to serve as representatives of the American people - all negative.

Posted by: jbleenyc | July 31, 2009 5:56 PM | Report abuse

Given that America is one of the most litigious societies in the world, it is not surprising that the people who just can't handle having Barack Obama as President resort to looking for a legal loophole to try and thwart the will of the majority.

Personally, I believe that the majority of people who can't handle having Barack Obama as President have a problem with him because he is black. So for me, anyone who comes out as a birther is revealing that there is a high probability that they are racist bigots.

Posted by: Jyakku | July 31, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

I am very surprised that the real motive here, has not been called out. The birth certificate is a non-issue. If Barack Obama has a US Passport, he has a valid birth certificate, and that would be the one from Hawaii.

This whole hoo-ha is calculated to distract the voting public from the phenomenal reality of real health care reform. Just as in the days of slapstick, when Stooge Moe would point and say "Look, Santa Claus!", this "birther" crap is just an infantile ploy the right wing-nuts are still using to gain media attention. And it's working. Too bad!

Posted by: ejwillia | July 31, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Phillip J. Berg who brought suit against Obama, Berg vs. Obama, is a Democrat. Please get your facts straight.

Posted by: seraphina | July 31, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse


These "birthers" and "teabaggers" are a bunch of white supremacists. They are perpetuating this nonsense to distract the public away from the GOPs inability to solve the nations problems.

Posted by: demtse | July 31, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

Anyone with one parent who is an American citizen, is himself/herself an American by default, regardless of the place of birth.

Many such births occur among Americans living outside the country, for whatever reason -- study, employment, government service, whatever.

Further, they qualify as "natural born."

In the case where one parent is a citizen of another country, such a child would have dual citizenship. Dual citizenship was not permitted for Americans until about a decade ago, when the law was changed to allow it.

Barack Obama, if he chose, could claim British citizenship, since his father was a Kenyan and at that time a British subject.

Winston Churchill's mother was an American citizen. He could have claimed American citizenship by birth, but chose not to. At that time, dual citizenship was not allowed in America, though it was in Great Britain.

Posted by: reedpappy | July 31, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm delighted to see the GOP bind itself to this sort of asinine idiocy.

Posted by: nodebris | July 31, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

The Washington Post is making clear that it works for the Office of the President. They want to keep their TV stations. This is the paper that pursued Watergate? That Post is dead as the America of 1973 that it helped kill in the decades since by immigration. Men's Median wages are the same as in 1973 see p60-235.pdf graph page 19. Women's median is what men's were in 1963.

The Post works for the establishment and is the establishment. The Post prints what the establishment wants it to print. The Post scorns those who want to see original documents as birthers.

Well those who wanted to hear the Watergate Tapes are therefore Tapers. I am a birther and a Taper. The Post is neither anymore when it counts.

Posted by: OldAtlantic | July 31, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

My birth certificate has time and date of bith. It also has my parents names, my wife's and son's certificate have the same.

Soon I'll have a graddaughter, wonder if the time, date, and parents names could be left off? What really bothers me is the 29 social security numbers registered to him!

Posted by: vaincre | July 31, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

Here's what is most goofy about the birthers: they must believe that the State Dept, Dick Cheney, George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove and every other person who would love to bring Obama down are either in on the conspiracy or too stupid to prove he is not a citizen.

The truth is that these racists can't bring themselves to accept that a black man is their president. By denying his birth they hold out hope that he really isn't their president.

So hard do they cling to their guns and Bibles and un-Christlike hatred!

Posted by: NotNowMooky | July 31, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse


These "birthers" and "teabaggers" are a bunch of white supremacists. They are perpetuating this nonsense to distract the public away from the GOPs inability to solve the nations problems.

Posted by: demtse | July 31, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Wow. The author of this article is VERY dishonest.

She states that factcheck.org examined Obama's "original birth certificate". By this, she expects you to believe they examined an official copy of certificate that was typed on the day of his birth.

But she knows that factcheck.org only examined the DIGITAL VERSION of Obama's birth certificate.

What is her motive for lying like this?

Posted by: grolfff | July 31, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

A friend brought this up over the weekend and his argument was that Obama's mother was under the age of 18 which somehow does not make him a 'natural born citizen' of the United States and in actuality a British subject as a result of his father's nationality. Frankly, this made my head hurt. I thought that one of the arguments about anchor babies born in places like El Paso to parents who illegally enter the US was that they were automatically citizens and I don't hear anyone making a big deal about this.

Posted by: skipper7 | July 31, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

Weird.

Posted by: 5toolplayer | July 31, 2009 6:09 PM | Report abuse

A "natural-born citizen" is someone who is a citizen from birth. As opposed to a "naturalized citizen", which obtains their citizenship after birth.

There are only two ways to become a natural-born citizen. The first is to be born on American soil. As Obama has proven.

The other is to be born to an American citizen, naturalized or otherwise. It does not matter if you were born on the moon. If your mother or father is an American citizen, so are you. Especially your mother, since that's a pretty hard relationship to fake.

Posted by: catie22
--------------------------------------------------

What law specifically defines "natural born" and states who is "natural born"? Hint: the 14th Amendment doesn't even include the phrase. You have researched this yourself, or are you just quoting others?

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

I have friends who are "birthers"; they've been at it since 'way before the election.
At first, their conspiracy theories were frustrating, then aggravating.
Their racism and the emotional load of their rants wore on past and through November, '08.
Spring burst upon us and a new round of this nonsense has hit the least important members in Congress.
I mean -- come on -- just look at the Texans.
(Chris Matthews just read a list; it has an astoundingly embarrassing number of Texans on it.)
Except for Cornyn, whoever heard of those nuts from rural Texas?
They can't distinguish themselves in any other way, so they've climbed on the 'Birther' bandwagon.
And, like pit bulls, once they sink their teeth in, they don't let loose.
Rational sanity has nothing to do with this.
And, for goodness' sake, don't confuse them with facts.
They just deny what they don't want to know.
No wonder Texas is 50th in the nation on several lists, including education.
The congressmen are so busy dreaming up this pile of malarky, they can't be bothered with doing their job for a living.
And we, the ever long-suffering American public, continue to put up with this behavior from our public officials.
America in its waning daze.
Sad.

Posted by: Judy-in-TX | July 31, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

Democrats as well as Republicans are united in their dislike of rule breaking. We like it or not, one such technicality is having to be born in the US, which OBAMA DID.

Evidence to the contrary is close to non-existent, and claiming fraud without evidence is thin.

Unfortunately for name callers, claiming people who doubt are just bigots, OBAMA could have renounced his citizenship and not cured the error. Evidence for this is stronger.

Another issue is whether or not we want to say that those stupid immigration rules shouldn't apply to an American born child.

Remember :
A democrat, not a republican brought suit against OBAMA, check the court records.

"Phillip J. Berg who brought suit against Obama, Berg vs. Obama, is a Democrat."

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:14 PM | Report abuse

This is why she is lying to you:

This whole thing is a red herring.

Obama DOES have a copy of the manually typed birth certificate which was issued at the time of his birth. He is deliberately witholding it to give the appearance that it might not exist. The purpose of this is to make you all look like fools in challenging his citizenship.

THE FBI DETERMINED THAT OBAMA WAS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN BEFORE HE EVER WON HIS PARTY'S NOMINATION.

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK YOU CAN FIND OUT SOMETHING ABOUT OBAMA THAT THE FBI CAN'T.

Obama is our President, and even Republicans owe him their full support and loyalty.

Wait until 2012, and if you think he did a lousy job at that time, vote him out of office.

Only please don't let slimey liberal manipulators like this woman play you for a fool over this non-issue.

Posted by: grolfff | July 31, 2009 6:15 PM | Report abuse

In obamas book he says he went to school in Indonesia, where his father was a citizen and where they did not allow dual citizenship. if obama goes to school there, when he says he did, he had to either be adopted by his step father or his step father had to recognize him has his son. Either way he becomes a citizen and has to forgo his US citizenship because Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenship and required citizenship to attend schools there.

So the real question here, is whether or not he is a "natural born citizen" after he and or his father renounced his citizenship with the US, so that he could attend school in Indonesia.

Posted by: localidiot | July 31, 2009 6:16 PM | Report abuse

And this term Birthers, is exactly as someone else here said,

Birthers don't exist. The liberal media invented them to make the administration's opponents look like delusional morons.

Same thing the main stream media always does, stick a label on them so instead of addressing different issues, its easier to manipulate them if you bunch them all together.

Posted by: localidiot | July 31, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

birthers are today's swiftboaters. This is a new breed of domestic terrorists They suffer no consequences for the lies that they spew. If they are not organized now, they soon will be. This is not going away. And neither will the policeman and the professor. This will be exploited to the extreme. Just watch it.

Posted by: isakb2 | July 31, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

"Oh I get it. It is only an issue because of Obama's race, isn't it? Birthers are really just bigots in disguise.

Posted by: Fjet2020"

They're in disguise?

Posted by: thrh | July 31, 2009 6:20 PM | Report abuse

TO: Judy-in-TX
RE: Stereotyping

"I have friends who are "birthers"; they've ..... Their racism and the emotional load of their rants wore on past and through November, '08."

I have friend who are black, and are in jail. So many black people go to jail that all black people like to go to jail.

I have friends who don't like to learn English. So many immigrants don't like to learn English that all immigrants don't like to learn English.

I have racist friends who hate Obama. Every one who hates Obama is a racist.

???

People lose their jobs on technicalities, their lives on technicalities. Often justice requires that we say "in this case we make an exception."

Perhaps embarrassing the president is the true motive. But if a technicality likely occurred, then it has to be addressed, and whether or not racists are doing it, shouldn't matter as much as making an exception only because he is black.

If we want to make an exception, it should be because of the facts, not because he is black.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:21 PM | Report abuse

We all know that the largest group of delusional morons are the people who still support Obama. Soon you will lose. Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.

Posted by: LifeTraveler | July 31, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are so frightening. People who would do anything to destroy a democratic president. Who has to pick up the pieces left by Republican George Bush.

And those pieces are:
the Iraq war based on lies and ignorance.$700B, and Bin Laden is still free btw

Turning a near 200B surplus into a trillion $$ deficit. I agree that part of this is a result of 9/11, but a major part is due to the Iraq fiasco.

And so much of the republican extremist fringe ranting is nothing but the rise from its smoldering ashes of racial hatred. For the Southerners, their worst nightmare has come true - a Black President . Old prejudices don't go away, you still in this country occasionally hear comments about eg "Jewing him down", in reference to pricing deals.

And the other main part of the republican party is those who would give us wild west capitalism. An unregulated stock market gave us the worldwide great depression. And out of that collapse, a maniac, playing on the people's anxiety and on hatred of the Jews took over Germany. The result can still be seen when you go to the death camps. For over the gates through which millions passed only one way, is the greatest lie of all - "work makes free" (en zie deutch). Freedom was when their ashes went out the smokestack.

And we came close this time. A Fortune Mag article last fall explained how CDSs and other super-sophisticated financial paper became a 50+ trillion $$ rat hole. AAA paper that wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. But wall street made Billions.

The Birthers remind me of ultra religious people. Rove and his gang turned the republican party into some kind of idol worship. Which the bible condemns.

And as some great sage said a hundred years ago, religion can do great things for good people. And terrible things for Bad people.

If I were Michael Steele -I've met him - not a bad guy though I disagree with him re economics, I'd be terrified that the whole party is going to be destroyed by its extremists.

Of which the birthers, the Limbaughs and Gingriches, and McConnells are prime examples.

Posted by: SJames6621 | July 31, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

I disagree with the author's opinion that release of the original would not solve the issue. There is no plausible reason for him not to release it.

Posted by: alstl | July 31, 2009 6:26 PM | Report abuse

T0: grolfff

I respectfully appreciate your comments. The FBI is great but not infallible. They accused the wrong person of terrorism based on poor finger print evidence that their own labs double checked. They rely on challenge forensic evidence that the national academy of science says is questionable.

Additionally, it is not the job of the FBI to answer legal question. As was put earlier, whether or not a natural born citizen can renounce his citizenship, and something as simple as not filling out a form on his return can prevent him from being a citizen.

I agree with you that name calling, and listening to CNBC and FOX, only make us look stupid because they pander to us.
The problem of pandering, and our own acceptance, unfortunately, is far more complicated.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are proof that aliens are real and using earth as a dumping ground for their crazy people.

Posted by: mac8 | July 31, 2009 6:31 PM | Report abuse

I haven't followed this at all. And I voted for Obama. I admire him. And I think he is doing a great job as President. Especially in his call for more civility in our discourse.

But it is hard, as a newcomer to this issue, not to be appalled at the hatred and ridicule being heaped on the "birthers". Even if they are lunatics, and maybe they are, their argument, viewed in isolation, is not too shabby. I am sure that Obama was born in Hawaii, but it stands to reason that the original long form birth certificate is being suppressed for a reason. That is just common sense. It is NOT racist to question the impact of being raised overseas in an islamic country upon the value system of the president of the USA. The fact that he embraced Jeremiah Wright's brand of Christianity does not mean that his entire history, including the cocaine years, and, yes, the circumstances iof his birth, are not relevant to understanding the man.

Sometimes I wish that the left would just grow up and stop acting like a bunch of school yard bullies. And the Post does itself no service by printing these trashy rants.

Tell me, lefties, would you heap this level of scorn on the homeless fellow down the street talking to a nonexistent friend in the storewindow? No, you would not. Treat these people respectfully. Act like humans, for goodness sake.

Posted by: JeffL2 | July 31, 2009 6:32 PM | Report abuse

Whether Obama is a U.S. citizen or not, it doesn't change the fact that he is a racist, marxist, con artist and the people who voted for him were either clueless or share his anti-American idealogies. Even worse are the rabid pack of wolves who attack anyone who questions this fraud. Oh, and by the way, John McCain stank too. But at least he did something in his life that wasn't totally selfish.

Posted by: LifeTraveler | July 31, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

Nonpartisan Factcheck.org? HA!

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

The Burden of Proof lies with these moronic birthers. We have clear proof of Obama's birth in Hawaii, good enough as repeated many times for the Supreme Court of The United States, for the House and Senate, for endless sources presenting factual evidence, versus birthers who base their claims mainly on a perceived lack of evidence.

Present your proof that Obama was NOT born in Hawaii with anywhere near the finality and provability of the proof that he WAS born in Hawaii or shut your damn mouths.

Posted by: pmbster | July 31, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Some pretty scary comments on here other than the questions about obamas status such as:

"Yes, the WSJ has it right - why should the president have to submit "proof" to this group of looney-birds? "

Let us be clear, this is the United States, and barak, congress and the senate work for us. It is not up to obama to adhere to any law.

If this issue was a simple as showing proof, providing a simple birth certificate, it would come as no harm to anyone, only if you do have something to hide.

To sit here and type that the people can not request something as trivial as a birth certificate, to even "shut them up" is more like a country that is NOT a democracy and a country NOT based on transparency.

So while we are killing brown people all over the world trying to spread, open government and transparent government, don't tell the same country that is doing this, to not demand answerers from their elected representatives.

I will say it again, if this was as simple as showing his birth certificate, and it was so obvious everyone questioning are "birther/nutjobs" then just show them what they want. The president doesnt need to hide behind a factcheck website or some he heard they said or they saw something from hawaii.

Then again get obama to release his medical records, his records from college. Why? Why hide something, united states of america, this is still the united states of america, right?

Posted by: localidiot | July 31, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

I personally believe the president is an American citizen. However with that said I had to produce a birth certificate and transcripts to get a medical license. By the way they would not accept the typed certificate of birth. Yes they required a real long form certificate. I wonder what would have happened if I had just refused? Call me "crazy" or "Birther" or whatever but I still believe that all presidents should have a full and comprehensive background check by a neutral party (judicial.) I like the President but I find it disturbing that he has spent considerable time and legal resource to seal his transcripts and birth Certificate.

Posted by: Chris80 | July 31, 2009 6:38 PM | Report abuse

THE FBI DETERMINED THAT OBAMA WAS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN BEFORE HE EVER WON HIS PARTY'S NOMINATION.

DO YOU HONESTLY THINK YOU CAN FIND OUT SOMETHING ABOUT OBAMA THAT THE FBI CAN'T.

Posted by: grolfff
-----------------------------

Do you have the proof that he was vetted? Or even the federal statute that required it? Seems like a couple of Ga cops are in trouble for vetting without license (probable cause); surely the FBI would be smarter than that. I suppose if there is a statute then there would be no reason for the uproar over Bill H.R. 1530 - the one that would require a candidate to submit his/her birth certificate.

Of course, the other question is how Róger Calero, Socialist Workers Party candidate, could have run for president in 2004 and 2008 since he doesn't happen to be a US citizen at all. Maybe there is no vetting, or perhaps not all candidates are vetted equally?

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

To: pmbster

Re: burden of proof

On his return to the US, according to US law at the time, he had to validate his citizenship because he had denounced it, it didn't matter that he was a young child. The rule was created for cases like his. Now on his return, we don't have that piece of paper that he took the time to revalidate his citizenship.

Because of our convoluted immigration laws, worse than the IRS, because of a technicality, Obama is likely our first Illegal Immigrant President, born in this country, lived overseas, renounces citizenship technically, and technically doesn't cure the error.

There is evidence. A law suit was field by a former Democratic Governor, dissmmissed for lack of standing, not for lack of a good argument.


{{

In obamas book he says he went to school in Indonesia, where his father was a citizen and where they did not allow dual citizenship. if obama goes to school there, when he says he did, he had to either be adopted by his step father or his step father had to recognize him has his son. Either way he becomes a citizen and has to forgo his US citizenship because Indonesia at the time did not allow for dual citizenship and required citizenship to attend schools there.

So the real question here, is whether or not he is a "natural born citizen" after he and or his father renounced his citizenship with the US, so that he could attend school in Indonesia.}}

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

pmbster, you can't have it both ways. You can't use a burden of proof argument and support the suppression of possibly relevant evidence. Not if you expect to be taken seriously. The failure of Obama to produce his longform birth certificate is evidence that he is hiding something. Maybe it is weak evidence. But a sensible person has to agree that it supports the birthers viewpoint.

Posted by: JeffL2 | July 31, 2009 6:41 PM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me where I can find long-form copies of Ronald Reagan's and George W. Bush's birth certificates?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Posted by: DaveInTheOzarks | July 31, 2009 6:43 PM | Report abuse

"The Wall Street Journal has an excellent answer to this question: "Why should he? The demand has no basis in principle and would have no practical benefit."
Mary, Oh, please,..comments like that make "birthers" appear absolutely lucid.

Why don't you just say "Do not arouse the wrath of the great and powerful Oz. I said come back tomorrow! "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

No matter how silly we think the “birthers” look, to many Americans they do leave the White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs looking like the “man behind the curtain”.

In the same way that Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino says state law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest in it. But, yes,darn it the crazy "birthers" do have a tangible interest in seeing the actual document, so for the love of avoiding this ad nauseam monkey show, release the actual birth certificate and shame the devils. If Obama continues to ignore this simple solution then even I am going to start wondering what he is hiding.

Posted by: Zerohour | July 31, 2009 6:44 PM | Report abuse

"It seems nothing will deter the conspiracy theorists known as birthers, who have become the bane of the Republican Party's existence..."

Mary Ann, you are naive if you think the Republan party is embarrassed by the birthers. First of all, Republans have no shame and are not embarrassed by anything. Two words: Ann Coulter.

Secondly, the Republans *lurv* the birthers and think they are a godsend. They love the fact that birthers are distracting attention from the Greedy Old Plutocrats' role in sabotaging health care reform. They also love having a way to attack and destroy Obama while maintaining plausible deniability. They are tacitly encouraging the birthers and for all anyone knows, paying them under the table and leaning on the "liberal media" to give them infinitely more exposure and credibility than they deserve.

By the way, the birthers should really be called John Birthers. Let's stop ignoring the obvious: the birthers don't give a toss about where Obama was born or even the fact that he is a Democrat. They just can't accept a black man as president of the US. They are not just crazy, they are racist and should be called out on it.

Posted by: cthulhu1 | July 31, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

Who would the birthers trust to analyze Obama's birth certificate? If that person agreed the certificate was valid, would the birthers accept the opinion, or would they claim that person was forced to do so by the administration?

Tell us, birthers, who you would trust?

Posted by: Acemon | July 31, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

TO: DaveInTheOzarks
Re: Inquiring minds

Inquiring minds can find out, just like they can find out about a legitimate argument about the president having to renounce his citizenship, because he wrote a book about it.

Now, as a natural born citizen, can you renounce your citizenship, albeit not willingly but because of circumstance, return to your natural born country, forget to file the write paper work, and then be denied the right to be president?

A DEMOCRATIC former governor was denied the chance to go to trial, Not because it was an invalid question, but because the person was told he couldn't. SO the question remains.

Name calling helps no one. Lets stop being fools, because when we name call, only FOX, and CNBC make money telling us what we want to hear.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Obama took the oath of President of the United States. Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." The president then must be a natural born citizen according to the prescribed qualifications for the office. If he cannot show a legitimate and legal birth certificate that "all" other citizens must show to prove their citizenship when asked by official authority to do so then Mr. Obama is not qualified to be president. That is what the US constitution says. That is not arguable. It is the law of this country. We don't care if you are ba Black man or a White man, Oriental, or Native Indian, the rules is the same for anyone who wants to be President. Barack Obama is no exception.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Not too long ago I wasn't a birther and couldn't imagine becoming one, and then a few days ago, during breakfast with friends (a mix of Blues and Reds), I realized I should be. One of those sitting at the table, a Republican, expressed his frustration over the whole birther issue. To paraphrase "it was detracting from so many other issues that should be addressed by his party." Suddenly it dawned on me that I love those Birthers and more to the point I wish them a very long news life. The truth is nothing I nor anyone else can say could bring so many down so fast and so effectively. I mean even Ann Coulter was showing her frustration and how about that. So come on Mr. President, show me your real birth certificate...

:)

Posted by: herbinredbluff | July 31, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Only a liar could say that people are unhappy with Obama because he is black. First of all, his mother was white, remember? That would make him half-white or half-black, take your choice. Second of all, nobody cares about his skin color, except you holier-than-thou bleeding heart white liberals who think voting for Obama made you some kind of saint. You are a joke and people with common sense despise you!

Posted by: LifeTraveler | July 31, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

The point is no longer what the birthers would believe. The point is that the left wing attack on the birthes has become so irrational that many centrists are starting to ask themselves why Obama does not release the darn thing and put the argument to rest for sensible people. Suppressing a birth certificate is not smart conduct for an elected official.

Posted by: JeffL2 | July 31, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Also why should Obama do anything... the Birthers are the crazies eating up the GOP. If I was in the WH, I wouldn't go out of my way to help the GOP get the Lunatic Fringe of the Right Wing of the GOP under some semblance of order.

PS I also heard the Obama is truly an alien, like from outer space... ya know!

Posted by: Roofelstoon | July 31, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

The most annoying thing to me about all of this is that Non-Birthers say the COLB that has been presented is THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE! There IS nothing else - no vault copy, no long form. They say Hawaii only issued short forms in 1961. Argh! This part could be easily answered. We've seen another Hawaii COLB that has hospital and doctor info issued in 1963. So step one in this: SURELY there is SOMEONE born in Hawaii in 1961 who is willing to show us that their COLB--call it short, long, vault, or certified copy--was SOMETIMES issued on a form that included doctor and hospital. Again, the COLB is only one of the issues of eligibility raised by Birthers. I've read nearly everything on this available and I'm getting so furious. We are not stupid people!

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 6:54 PM | Report abuse

I really try hard not to enter into these discussions, but I'm weak. Birthers are the soul of the Republican party led by Rush Limbaugh. Do birthers also believe that the new health care bill contains provisions for making senior citizens choose their method of death, or is this another branch of the Republican party. How about the Obama is a Muslim brance - are the they same or another splinter group. If these guys go to a convention what will be their favorite way to say the US shouldn't have elected a black president without putting it that way. Loonies on parade. The Republican party courted these people in the 1960's and 70's and now I view them as the mainstay of the party. They got 'em, they can keep 'em.

Posted by: lswonder | July 31, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

TO: rmirod

RE: No exceptions......except.


Can you deny a natural born citizen the right to be president because of some stupid bureaucratic error?

There are exceptions. McCain got one, because he was born in Panama, but to a Service member.

Obama is a natural born citizen. Simply because I accuse you, you are not a traitor. No matter how much interest I have, I need evidence. Lets not regress to Zimbabwe.

DID OBAMA renounce his citizenship? There is evidence that he did and didn't fix it. His book, laws of the time, for example.

Did he file the paperwork to cure the error?

Can you deny a natural born citizen the right to be president because of some stupid bureaucratic error?

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 6:58 PM | Report abuse

For the ill informed people who are insisting that President Obama must have "renounced" his citizenship to attend school in Indonesia, let it be known that many thousands of American students have attended schools abroad while retaining their United States Citizenship.No country insists that foreigners "renounce" their citizenship to attend school.

Likewise students from every country in the world attend school in America without "renouncing" their own citizenship.

On another topic Phillip J Berg was a Clinton backer and whacko who believed George Bush instigated and planned the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11. Enough said.

Posted by: Luke2 | July 31, 2009 7:01 PM | Report abuse

The real disappointment is Mary Ann Akers. She is someone that supposedly is intelligent and educated. How could she possibly write this piece and omit the critical fact--that there is such a thing as a long form birth certificate in the state of Hawaii. Call the birthers wacky if you want. This omission is inexcusable from a reputable journalist. Earth to Washington Post: There are qualified people who graduated from journalism school and understand logic who would love to write for your newspaper!

Posted by: JeffL2 | July 31, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

To: Chiapas32
Re: Inquiring minds

Did you read my comment? I couldn't see anything in your response that related to my questions. I asked if anyone knew where I could get a copy of Ronald Reagan's or George W. Bush's birth certificates.

Posted by: DaveInTheOzarks | July 31, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

@ Luke2:

It has to do with his adoption by Lolo Soetoro around the age of 5 or 6. It's not about him being a foreign student. I don't know about other "ill informed" people but you might want to look this one up so you aren't included in that category.

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmmmmm......it appears that Ms. Akers is as ignorant concerning the difference between a certificate of live birth and a birth certificate. As far as I have been able to discover, and I have seen an authentic Birth Certificate from the State of Hawaii from 1963, the difference is monumental. A COLB is issued by the hospital and is sent to the State Dept of Health in Hawaii which issues the birth certificate.

The Hawaiian Birth Certificate I have seen has the same information on it as my son's Birth Certificate (1962) from Michigan. Just some of the entries are Father's Name, age and occupation, mother's name, age and occupation, home address of parents, date of the birth, sex and name of child, name of hospital where the birth took place, and the name of attending physician. The COLB, as shown by Obama's campaign web page, aid not have even half of that information.

Posted by: OregonStorm | July 31, 2009 7:06 PM | Report abuse

@ DaveInTheOzarks

Illinois birth certificates issued before 1916 are readily available from the clerk of the county in which the birth occurred. If you're interested in receiving a copy of President Reagan's, simply write to the clerk and include the following information:
Reagan, Ronald Wilson, b. 6 Feb 1911 to John Edward Reagan and Nellie Clyde Wilson Reagan.

The address to which to send your inquiry is:

Whiteside County Clerk
Courthouse
200 E. Knox St.
Morrison, IL 61270

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 7:08 PM | Report abuse

steveb777,

Birthers are seekers of truth? Did they ever seek THE TRUTH on past President's birth certificates? Some states call it BIRTH CERTIFICATE and some states call it CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH you moron. Obama already released it. I have a short form birth certificate. Does it make me a illegal citizen now? Birthers see everything in black and white. I doubt if you even know why some states switched the wording from BIRTH CERTIFICATE to CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH in recent time. That is to certify that a baby is born alive because there were cases when a baby is dead coming into this world. Instead of pursuing these stupid theories, why don't you birthers go to school and get some real education and also a "mentally OK" certificate from a good doctor before someone takes you seriously?

Posted by: nri1998 | July 31, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

To: Luke2
Re: Many people go to school

It is possible to go to school in another country and not lose your citizenship.
At the time OBAMA did it, he could not. Check the laws.

It used to be you could cross this country illegaly, pay a find and then become a resident. Now you can't.

Likewise, so many Americans could potentially lose their citizenship that the State Department issued procedures for them to revalidate their citizenship. It was a simple form.

That rule was removed, because it was dumb. It was dumb because we don't know the ins and outs of state department rules and denying someone citizenship seems stupid. But it existed in Obamas time.

So, can you deny a natural born citizen the right to be president because of some stupid bureaucratic error?

PS- To quote a great speaker, "no party has a monopoly on good ideas." So lets stop the name calling because it only makes us look stupid.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 7:09 PM | Report abuse

As has been said, Obama's mother was a US citizen and therefore so is Obama. End of story. Read the Constitution!

Posted by: lswonder | July 31, 2009 7:10 PM | Report abuse

The birthers are as hilarious as the people who consider Obama to be the antichrist. Yes, they exist too. I have one in my family and she has indoctrinated her 15 year old daughter in that way of thinking. Ignorance abounds.

Posted by: mraymond10 | July 31, 2009 7:13 PM | Report abuse

TO: lswonder

Re: end of question


No. because the question is can you deny a natural born citizen the right to be president because of some stupid bureaucratic error?

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

there are kooks everywhere had a bunch of them on tv land saying how George bush planed and had carried out the attacks on the world trade center and the arm chair lawyers who had proof that George bush was going to be impeached for 8 years he was guilty of every crime know to man. it still goes on in this free country you can believe any thing you want you can believe in big foot UFOs the loc ness or that George bush took out the world trade towers as long as you aren't in charge of anything more harmful then a push lawnmower its ok

Posted by: getsix1 | July 31, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

All the idiots, i.e. "birthers" might be isolated from rational folks - as they should be - if their primary instigators were less vocal - such as Mr. Dobbs.

I respectfully submit that we stop paying, through purchases, those who are paying those such as Dobbs to spue such nonsence; their sponsors.

I've written CNN that I will no longer access their network for news now that they allow and encourage folks like Dobbs to use their network for folklore.

I will be notifying his sponsors that I will no longer buy their products as long as they pay Dobbs and others to pollute the airwaves.

Posted by: JackieGillespie | July 31, 2009 7:14 PM | Report abuse

I am amazed at how the media is ruling America; was it a bet or a pay off. Get everyone angry at each other and they ignore the fact that Obama is not a natural born citizen. Neither his mother or father could give it to him. what is this all aboutI guess we will find out soon, when America is at war, blacks hating whites. Boycott Hawaii. Our news anchor are trying to destroy anyone who wants to know about Obama. I HATE THE NAME CALLING.
What are they trying to prove except they can control all Americans. BETTER START THINKING. BOYCOTT HAWAII!!

Posted by: marianne5 | July 31, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

A natural born citizen can also include a child born overseas by American parents. This was never a real issue to begin with, only in the minds of conservative talk show host.

Posted by: josephblow1 | July 31, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

One obvious reason that the left enjoys the "birther" movement is that is exposes those on the right as lunatics. Why would anyone want to spoil the fun?

There is a recent poll that asked people if they thought that Obama was was a "natural born American." The "birthers" are fewer than 20 percent of the US population, but are a plurality of the Republicans and people in the deep South.

'Nuf said.

Posted by: garyhurd | July 31, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

To: JackieGillespie

Re: polluting airwaves

Please include FOX, CNNBC.

But it doesn't answer the question of whether or not a natural born citizen, who unwillingly denounces his citizenship, and forgets to file the proper paper work, can be denied the presidency, even if the rule was changed?

This rule was denied for lack of standing, not because it was a bad question, even if filed by a former Democratic governor, accused of being crazy.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

OregonStorm,

COLB is not issued by the hospital you moron. COLB is an official certificate given to a baby who is born alive. Some state agencies switched to that wording to differentiate from the babies born dead.

BTW, Obama's birth certificate contains State agency seal, not the hospital seal. Why don't you ignorants do some research first before writing anything that comes into your brain?

You see this link? It says Department of Health, Hawaii, USA, not some hospital.


http://www.politifact.com/media/img/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg

Posted by: nri1998 | July 31, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

@ Iswonder,

Re: Stanley Ann Dunham being a US citizen ends story

Maybe this is moot given the natural born requirement for POTUS. I think this article talks that issue; let us know if it doesn't, it's a long article.

http://tinyurl.com/mxhav5

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

There is nothing in the United States Constitution referring to a "birth certificate" or the need to provide one.

Get over yourself rmirod. President Obama is the President of the United States and nothing except illness or a violent act fomented by some wing nut extremist is going to change it.

Admit it. It's all about race. Otherwise every other President who served without producing this piece of paper would have been hounded much the same. Do you actually believe that George Washington produced a "long form?"

Posted by: Luke2 | July 31, 2009 7:20 PM | Report abuse

While I know our govt is not the most efficient body on earth I do think President Obama's citizenship was verified long ago. With all the dirt people love to dig up on politicians do you think something as important as his birth certificate would have been somehow not been validated. This is just another thing for all the Obama haters to talk about. Maybe they are having flashbacks of Bush's falsified military records so now everyone after must prove who they are and send it to CNN for the final approval from the world, NOT. Give it up! He is a citizen, won the election and he is now the sitting president like it or not so deal with it.

Posted by: Iluv2read | July 31, 2009 7:21 PM | Report abuse

its also a good way for the media to steer you away from the fact that you are on a sinking ship with the dept that piling up it does not matter who started it its who finishes the job that's important

Posted by: getsix1 | July 31, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

@Allhockey

Re: Reagan's birth certificate
Copies of Illinois birth certificates are restricted to immediate family members. Also, they are not the original - with the impressed stamp. Is there a publicly available one available.

Posted by: DaveInTheOzarks | July 31, 2009 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Birthers sound like the folks who talked about black helicopters and a conspiracy to have the U.N. take over the U.S.

Personally, I think Birthers are harmless (except to the GOP) and amusing. I sure need the amusement.

David from San Jose, CA

Posted by: DavidofSanJose | July 31, 2009 7:24 PM | Report abuse

Debunking the myths:

1) In 2005, I attempted to get a passport using a VERY SIMILAR certificate issued by California AND WAS DENIED. I had to order the long-form birth certficate from Sacramento and then re-apply for my passport. Anyone who says that the short form that Obama provided is sufficient to get a passport doesn't know what they are talking about.

2) The short form that Hawaii issues does NOT prove that a person was born in Hawaii, since a baby born outside the state in 1964 could be registered within a few days after birth and be able to retrieve that SAME certificate. The vital records required to be registered, however, would indicate the actual place of birth, and that is the document that Obama is hiding.

3) "Birthers" is a term invented by the liberal media to help discredit their cause... and they are NOT all republicans -- case in point, the FIRST lawsuits regarding the lack of Obama's proof of citizenship were filed by Philip Berg, a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton's presidential candidacy, and a Democratic Party leader.

4) I, for one, do not deny that the "short form" document that was provided was genuine -- I just don't accept that it proves he was born in Hawaii. Therefore, if the "long form" birth certificate is ever revealed to the public, IT WOULD be accepted, at least by me.

Posted by: Darrelx | July 31, 2009 7:25 PM | Report abuse

chiapas32....What bureaucratic error, show us the proof of such a bureaucratic error. Saying so, does not mean squat. After some investigation some things we know. The claim that the BC's were burned in a fire is false. The claim that the Hawaii BC's in 1961 only used the short form is false as several people have come forth with their BC with the Certificate numbers before and after the Obama Factcheck.org COLB, and they all show the long-form. They also show that by time stamp, Barack Obama's supposed live birth time happened out of sequence. His COLB time was recorded before humanly possible in sequential numbering from all other births for that day. How did that happen? Just because it was Barack? I don't think so.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

@ DaveInTheOzarks

Re: Reagan's Birth Certificate

Did you contact them directly yet? Because certificates issued before 1916 are readily available, no need to be related. I can call his son Ron and ask him to help if you want.

Of course getting the original, I don't think you can get that. There is a "certified copy" at the Reagan Library, according to reports. I hav not called them. But these State certified docs are questionable, you know.

Posted by: allhockey | July 31, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

For those arguing that President Obama renounced his United States citizenship- or had it renounced for him by his parents, you are totally misinformed and wrong.

Parents cannot renounce United States citizenship on behalf
of their children. Before an oath of renunciation will be
administered under Section 349(a)(5), persons under the age
of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular
officer that they fully understand the nature and
consequences of the oath of renunciation and are voluntarily
seeking to renounce their citizenship. United States common
law establishes an arbitrary limit of age fourteen under
which a child's understanding must be established by
substantial evidence.

Nothing like this ever happened. President Obama is a natural born citizen as affirmed by the United States Supreme Court when the Chief Justice swore him into office.

Give it up- it's all about hate, and that your candidate did not win.


Posted by: Luke2 | July 31, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

TO: Luke

Re: all about Race

I admit it. It is all about race. You see, I cannot question the legitimacy of a black man, or half black (non-white).

This would not be an issue if George W. Bush wrote a book about his American Mom taking him to Russia to go to school, because I can question the legitimacy of any white man, as long as not half white.

In fact, our founding father, Alexander Hamilton was questioned about is birth and had to settle for being our first Secretary of the Treasury, because he was not born in a british island.

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 7:33 PM | Report abuse

@simkatu "MO repubs tried to create a "birther" law that would require all future candidates to office to supply MO with a "long form" in order to run, until they found out they were all preventing themselves from future office since Missouri doesn't do long forms".
This is the best posting; I laughed so hard that I was in tears.

Posted by: Bombones | July 31, 2009 7:38 PM | Report abuse

i don't really care were he was born what i care about it a job putting food on my family's table paying bills and so far president obma has given a lot of money to wall street executives, auto unions, and lots of pork . he has spent more then any president in history, and not much has gone to the middle class, of the poor. what i see is whats inn frount of me my money is worth less, the prices and cost of food and clothing and rent has increased a lot in the past 6 months. im thinking the president he is most like is jimmy carter on steroids

Posted by: getsix1 | July 31, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

TO: rmirod
Re: Show me the error

I agree. Saying something means squat. Also insulting you, only makes me look stupid, and likewise.

Because I am not God, I am open to the possibility of being wrong. I am not, cannot always be correct. Which is why in any argument we should contemplate the possibility that we are wrong. After all even the biggest idiot can have a valuable observation.

I don't like that the lawsuit was dismissed for lack of standing, instead of exploring the claims and dissmissing them.
I could be that this is all racially motivated and only insulting to the president. However, insulting the people who are insulting, gets us nowhere.

Perhaps this problem is tiny compared to health care and other more important things. But we are not a one mind nation only capable of doing one thing at a time, are we?

Surely something so small can be dealt with appropriately.

Personally, I think even if he renounced his citizenship and forgot to file the proper paperwork (humor me), you can't remove the president, so lets make an exception, like McCain got one.

But the back and forth name calling only makes us all look foolish, and enriches FOX and CNBC

Posted by: chiapas32 | July 31, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

DavidofSanJose...."I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Bill Clinton, President and a politician. "I am not a crook" Richard Nixon, President, and a politician. "If a woman is homeless and cannot pay her rent, it impacts me, I am my brothers keeper" Barack Obama, President, and a politician as his Aunt gets a deportation hearing. Tell me who are the crazies. Those who learn from history or those who willingly repeat it?

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 7:45 PM | Report abuse

I think the Birthers were all born off the planet, they are aliens and must show the long form birth ceritificate for Planet Earth -- you know, the one that every true Earthling has?

Don't have one? then you Birthers have to leave the planet right away. Goodbye!

Posted by: dwooddell1 | July 31, 2009 7:52 PM | Report abuse

"In fact, our founding father, Alexander Hamilton was questioned about is birth and had to settle for being our first Secretary of the Treasury, because he was not born in a british island." Chiapas32

Chiapas32- you are wrong again. Alexander Hamilton was eligible under the Constitution to be President- and he was not asked for a "long form"

Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as President of the United States:

“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Alexander Hamilton was a citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. Thus he was eligible to be President- and he was not asked for a "long form."

Give it up haters and racists. You have nothing but lies, your paranoia and ignorant innuendos to rely on.

Posted by: Luke2 | July 31, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

As has been said, Obama's mother was a US citizen and therefore so is Obama. End of story. Read the Constitution!
Posted by: lswonder
---------------------------

That may or may not be true if he were born out of country - there are some maternal age and residence requirements that apply. But just to simplify things lets not worry about that and agree that because of his mother's citizenship that he is, in fact, a citizen; that does not make him a "natural born citizen". I defy you to find in the Constitution or it's amendments anything that specifically states that any citizen or even any "citizen at birth" is a "natural born citizen" and eligible to be president. Further, I don't think you can find any US law that makes them the same. There is, however, ample evidence that those who wrote the Constitution did not intend them to be the same thing; they had a little problem with foreign allegiance - like a candidate's foreign father. It would also seem that if there were such a law that it would be unconstitutional because it would in effect amend the Constitution without using the amendment process.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 7:56 PM | Report abuse

Luke....All laws went into effect at the ratification of the US Constitution. George Washington — Place of Birth: Westmoreland County, Virginia was a natural born American. Please study your history. We are a country founded by men but governed by laws. Barack Obama is no exception, though a man he is subject to the laws of the US Constitution as he attested to when taking his oath. If he does not prove his he is a natural citizen he is in violation of his oath.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 8:00 PM | Report abuse

8 USC 1401

The State of Hawaii may have issued other types of birth certificates in the past, but now only issues the "Certification of Live Birth" which when embossed with the State Seal and signed with the offical rubber stamp of the Secretary of State is proper proof of a person's natural birth in the United States of America for ALL purposes. The Certification of Live Birth that has been produced has all of the requirements. As far as Philip Berg being a Democrat, so is Lyndon LaRouche. And Berg also claims that Bush flew the planes into the twin towers, when we all know that Bush doesn't know how to fly.

Posted by: CessnaDriver | July 31, 2009 8:01 PM | Report abuse

That whackadoodle-doos are back in full force. I would like them to explain the Dept of Health's information that TWO newspapers printed in 1961, birth announcements NOT submitted by parents, but retrieved from the Dept of Health's vital records. I would like them to explain why the Republican Governor of Hawaii would be covering up for this. I would like them to explain how the FBI and CIA under the Bush Administration failed to vet Obama as a candidate and didn't discover this whacky theory, but yet an anti-semite "Truther" was able to do so. I would like them to explain why the Dept of Health is lying about having the original document and further, why he should have to show these nutbags anything further than they've already seen. THe truth is, they don't want evidence that supports the truth, they want stories to support their crazy conspiracy. Yep, that's right, crazy.

Posted by: lawsonmusic | July 31, 2009 8:03 PM | Report abuse

lawsonmusic...like drugs do you, take another pill, lie down and don't move until you come out of it.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

I particularly loved the posted comment that ended: "Enough said!"

Hilarious. As Gary Larsen used to say: "People unclear on the concept." The whole point of being a "birther" is to be permanently in denial of Obama's legitimacy and talk about it forever.

Posted by: fzdybel | July 31, 2009 8:13 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: steveb777 | July 31, 2009
Birthers aren't republicans. Birthers are seekers of truth and honesty in elections and the rule of law!

To all the people that say Obama is legitimate, I would like to know if your decision was based on faith or facts? If it’s faith, I’m not persuaded. If it’s based on facts, show them to the world so we can evaluate them for ourselves!

If Obama has a long-form, why doesn’t he show it? If he doesn’t have one, why not? People that hide things, usually have something to hide. He works for us. We have a right to know! We have a right to demand it!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to send a message to Obama and to EVERY OTHER POTENTIAL VIOLATOR OF OUR RULE OF LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

OBAMA, STOP HIDING. SHOW US THE LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!
===============================
The State of Hawaii has - once again - verified his place of birth. And, once again, the same newspaper announcements about his birth have been made public.

I guess that somehow hundreds of people have been involved in some sort of massive cover up that included, by the way, the Nostradamus-like prescience to place newspaper announcements in Hawaiian papers in 1961 - amazing planning, I must admit.

But his birth certificate is not really the issue, is it?

Be honest. Obama could produce any amount of incontrovertible proof and it wouldn't make any difference to you - you know it and I know it. The whole point of this insanity about his birth certificate is simply to sow doubt about him, question the legitimacy of his election. So don't blow smoke up our *sses that you're some sort of 'seeker of truth', Socrates. Quite the opposite.

Posted by: EnemyOfTheState | July 31, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Fjet2020...most of the questions here are answerable if you would take the time to read the US Constitution. All military installations are considered to be US territory as are our places of US Consular compounds . When a US Citizen female gives birth on a US Military base her child (John McCainj)was a US citizen by law, not opinion.. Read the US Supreme Court decision on this one.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

People believe all kinds of things.

42% of republicans believe Obama is not a citizen.
35% of democrats believe 9/11 was an inside job.
20% of people believe the moon landings were faked.

Conspiracy theories are a bipartisan pastime. Lack of rational thought knows no particular political affiliation.

Posted by: hamer12string | July 31, 2009 8:20 PM | Report abuse

As a criminal Investigator... I can tell you, there is only ONE REASON to petition a court to seal records... only one. To hide it's contents. Even a 10 year old can understand that. He not only sealed his birth records, he sealed every single solitary citizenship records known to man. Ordinary public school records, college records, kenyan citizenship records, passport records, Thesis, records, attendance records, University application records, coillege transcripts... these are records that you have to show to be a security guard. He has refused to show anyone ANY of his public records. Who does that? And why? To hide something. You can not give one single other reason to seal average, ordinary PUBLIC RECORDS.

If Obama can release Highly TOP SECRET Military documents for public scrutiny, he certainly can release his everyday public citizenship records. Just a thought!

BTW: Obama is NOT a black man. He is a half black man and half white man. He is the best of both worlds and as such, he should show his integrity and adhere to his campaign promise to have an administration with transparency and accountabilty for the public scrutiny

Anyone who wants Obama to prove his authority will be called a racist. That is a Messiah mentality... following blindly & compelled to counter attack because they have no other possible defense or explanation. Throw race into it!

Very sad... Like little sheep following the herd to slaughter. Obamagadon is here. You wanted it, you got it. Now live with it.

Posted by: garylorann2 | July 31, 2009 8:24 PM | Report abuse

Someone please explain to me why President Obama's published Hawaii birth certificate lists his father as "Black" when the officially accepted term in 1961 on official documents was "Negro"? And one comment, Ms. Akers: Name-calling is a waste of space. It is perfectly sensible for citizens to ask for proof that their President is constitutionally-qualified for the office that he holds. Would it be so hard for President Obama to publish a certified true copy of the original document from the birth hospital in Hawaii and lay all of the controversy to rest?

Posted by: dkaag | July 31, 2009 8:28 PM | Report abuse

After George Bush, I think it would be funny as heck if Obama was in the WH right now, having a beer and laughing to him self saying ... "Boy did I pull a fast one. I'm not even a citizen. Even Hillary can't prove it, and she's Sec. of State. ha ha ha ha

Posted by: DrWho2 | July 31, 2009 8:29 PM | Report abuse

Oh, No! NOT NPR TOO! Just came in a few hours ago: Fear of a Foreign President Making sense of the birther conspiracy theorists Jesse Walker |release the actual birth certificate and shame the devils.As I just posted, hurry darn it and realease the long form, if NPR is wondering what Obama is hiding soon Obama will be dealing with this everyday! As I just posted, hurry and release the darn thing!

Posted by: Zerohour | July 31, 2009 8:30 PM | Report abuse

chiapas32...It is not about race (nationalities) but about obeying the laws of this country. When our citizens stopped obeying the laws we have seen the chaos and out-of-control governments spending our country into total insolvency. It has become a fad to the Democrats to romanticize anarchy and thus allow illegal aliens to live in this country as though they are entitled to do so. Every vote they cast is false, but nullifies your vote if you are a US Citizen. The nationality of a Barack Obama is not in question, his BC is.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 8:33 PM | Report abuse

@Allhockey

I don't intend to call the Illinois Secretary of State. I checked their web site.

What ever you tell me, I won't believe it. I don't believe that Ronald Reagan was a citizen of the United States. And you must be in on the conspiracy to claim that he is.

And Sarah Palin is a secessionist.

Posted by: DaveInTheOzarks | July 31, 2009 8:38 PM | Report abuse

Someone please explain to me why President Obama's published Hawaii birth certificate lists his father as "Black" when the officially accepted term in 1961 on official documents was "Negro"?

Posted by: dkaag
------------------------------

Actually it doesn't say "black"; it says "African" which isn't a race; and that in itself has been a point of contention.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 8:39 PM | Report abuse

There's not one single shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere outside USA.
So, this Kenya crap gotta stop. In fact, there's an evidence that he was born in Hawaii and if anybody has any evidence connected to the birth in Kenya;.................... PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Saying and making up some scenarios that he somehow could have not be born in Hawaii, so far makes no sense at all, but it interesting and funny.

Posted by: BOBSTERII | July 31, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

Good gracious sakes. As my husband would say, some people are just stuck on stupid.

I was born in a military hospital at Ft. Campbell, KY. I have an original copy of my birth certificate, signed in blue ink by the Army doctor who delivered me. When I submitted this copy to obtain a U.S. Passport, it was denied. I had to present an official copy from the Commonwealth bearing a raised seal, or no dice. When it came, it was identical to the form I already had, except it was copied on official watermarked paper and sealed with the KY state seal.

An official copy of Obama's certificate, duly sealed, has been presented and examined. I assume the man has a passport, so clearly the documentation he has submitted has passed muster with the State Department long before he announced his candidacy.

Obama is a U.S. citizen. He is the duly elected and sworn President. Can we move on to real issues, please?

Posted by: invergarry | July 31, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

First off, I am not a Republican. I support the Constitution Party.

Secondly, even IF Obama were born in Hawaii (which is still doubtful), there is the issue of his having been adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, which would have given him Indonesian citizenship. Why isn't this addressed?

Thirdly, race has nothing to do with it. Why do you people hate the Constitution?

Posted by: Alexandra73 | July 31, 2009 8:50 PM | Report abuse

READ SOME REAL NEWS @ INFOWARS.COM WAKE UP AND SMELL THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

Posted by: b867332 | July 31, 2009 8:51 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS OUT OF THIS WORLD CHARLES. THIS IS FROM REPUBLICAN WEBSITE. CRYING SHAME!

CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING TO STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM SPENDING THEY'RE HARD EARNED ON MAKE BELIEVE?

CRYING SHAME GROWN ACE FOLKS SPENDING THEY'RE PAMPER MONEY ON JUNK.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE BILLBOARD CAMPAIGN

Amount: Five --$5.00Ten -- $10.00Twenty-Five -- $25.00Fifty -- $50.00One Hundred -- $100.00Two Hundred Fifty -- $250.00Five Hundred -- $500.00One Thousand -- $1,000.00 (Shipping Included)


CLICK HERE TO READ ALL RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THE OBAMA ELIGIBILITY ISSUE..

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE YARD AND RALLY SIGN YET??

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUMPER STICKER YET??

Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?

Posted by: opp88 | July 31, 2009 8:55 PM | Report abuse

BOBSTERII...Barack Obama own grandmother was the person who told reporters her grandson was born in Kenya. She told them she was there at his birth. Maybe you can get a clarification from Barack about his grandmother's memory. Maybe she has Alzheimer's who knows? But most of this would not have even become an issue if it wasn't for Barack and his big mouth. He was the one who brought his early childhood into question during a TV interview when reporters validated what he said about the earliest days of his memory. When they checked it out itt didn't jive with the facts.

Posted by: rmirod | July 31, 2009 8:56 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: dkaag
Someone please explain to me why President Obama's published Hawaii birth certificate lists his father as "Black" when the officially accepted term in 1961 on official documents was "Negro"?

TRUE CORRECTION
In 1961, "NEGRO" word was considered as racial slur and it was not official at all and never. It even offended black people so they preffered "BLACK" which was not actually official either in 1961, but it could have been choosen by parent of the newborn black baby. Black leaders have fought for some official race recognition in writing and speech and by the mid 1960's "BLACK" was official.
So, your comment is plain conspiracy produced in your world of imagination and missleading. Nice try redneck moron. Gee, you should get a job at FOX NEWS (THE BLACK SHEEP IN MEDIA)

Posted by: BOBSTERII | July 31, 2009 8:57 PM | Report abuse

I just wish Obama would allow his long form birth certificate to be released! The form that everyone calls a birth certificate is not a legal document. How do I know this? Well, my son tried to use the same form when he went to college and they told us it wasn't a legal document. It had a seal on it too! Further, they required him to get his long form because they said the Certification of Live Birth, or the short form is easy to create and is often used by illegal immigrants. So, don't give me that baloney that the form we're seeing on the net is legal. He couldn't get a passport with that thing. So, come on, JUST RELEASE THE REAL THING AND GET THIS OVERWITH!!!!

Posted by: believeit | July 31, 2009 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I disagree with the author's opinion that release of the original would not solve the issue. There is no plausible reason for him not to release it.
-------------------------------------------
According to the Republican Governor of Hawaii, the Certificate of Live Birth is a Birth Certificate.

"And according to the Hawaii Department of Health, state law prohibits the release of certified birth certificates to “persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.” But, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii department of health, confirmed, in a statement, that she and the registrar of vital statistics have seen and verified that Sen. Obama’s birth certificate is on record in accordance with the law." (from FactCheck.org)

Posted by: alysheba_3 | July 31, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: rmirod

BOBSTERII...Barack Obama own grandmother was the person who told reporters her grandson was born in Kenya. She told them she was there at his birth. Maybe you can get a clarification from Barack about his grandmother's memory. Maybe she has Alzheimer's who knows? But most of this would not have even become an issue if it wasn't for Barack and his big mouth. He was the one who brought his early childhood into question during a TV interview when reporters validated what he said about the earliest days of his memory. When they checked it out itt didn't jive with the facts.

RESPOND;
You forgot to mention that this is his so called grandmother from Kenya saying such things in "Kenyan language"; NOT THE ONE THAT RAISED HIM IN HAWAII AND SAID THAT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.
Anyway, NICE TRY, and if that is all you got; you can keep saying that until republicans take over again and I think me and you will be in our late 60's by then and it won't matter even if he was born in Kenya.

Posted by: BOBSTERII | July 31, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

Where is his criticism of attorney Philip J. Berg (Democrat) the original birther who filed several cases and brought the issue up during the campaign? Although Berg continues the good fight, all the focus is on right wing racist conspiracy whiteys???

Forget about the certificate... his father, Obama Sr. was born in Indonesia and later adopted by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen causing Obama loose his US citizenship. These facts alone makes him ineligible for president under our constitution.

Unfortunately, it’s too late now... If the truth was uncovered now it would seriously damage and embarrass the US and the MSM will kill this story at all cost.

Posted by: awclewis7 | July 31, 2009 9:08 PM | Report abuse

ALLEN KEYS AND OTHER REPUBLICAN PARTY CONSERVATIVES. PRETTY INGENIOUS IDEAL, TAKING CANDY FROM A BABY, PROBLEM IS, ALL FOR NOT!

CLICK HERE TO READ ALL RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THE OBAMA ELIGIBILITY ISSUE..

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE YARD AND RALLY SIGN YET??

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUMPER STICKER YET??

Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?

Posted by: opp88 | July 31, 2009 9:09 PM | Report abuse

A "natural-born citizen" is someone who is a citizen from birth. As opposed to a "naturalized citizen", which obtains their citizenship after birth.

There are only two ways to become a natural-born citizen. The first is to be born on American soil. As Obama has proven.

The other is to be born to an American citizen, naturalized or otherwise. It does not matter if you were born on the moon. If your mother or father is an American citizen, so are you. Especially your mother, since that's a pretty hard relationship to fake.

Posted by: catie22
--------------------------------------------------

What law specifically defines "natural born" and states who is "natural born"? Hint: the 14th Amendment doesn't even include the phrase. You have researched this yourself, or are you just quoting others?


Posted by: tnvret

Thanks for asking. I was born 6 weeks early while my parents were traveling in another country, and I am considered a natural-born citizen... meaning I was a US citizen at the time of my birth, despite being born in another country. I am also a citizen of the other country, if I choose to use that to my advantage (because that contry also recognizes dual citizenships). The only advantage so far was not needing a travel visa when I visited there.

Not that it matters because Obama was born in Hawaii. Stop your trolling if you're not adding anything to the discussion, only asking other people how they know what they know. Surely you have a library in your town too?

Posted by: catie22 | July 31, 2009 9:10 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS OUT OF THIS WORLD CHARLES. THIS IS FROM REPUBLICAN WEBSITE. CRYING SHAME!

CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING TO STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM SPENDING THEY'RE HARD EARNED ON MAKE BELIEVE?

CRYING SHAME GROWN ACE FOLKS SPENDING THEY'RE PAMPER MONEY ON JUNK.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE BILLBOARD CAMPAIGN

Amount: Five --$5.00Ten -- $10.00Twenty-Five -- $25.00Fifty -- $50.00One Hundred -- $100.00Two Hundred Fifty -- $250.00Five Hundred -- $500.00One Thousand -- $1,000.00 (Shipping Included)


CLICK HERE TO READ ALL RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THE OBAMA ELIGIBILITY ISSUE..

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE YARD AND RALLY SIGN YET??

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUMPER STICKER YET??

Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?

ALLEN KEYS AND OTHER REPUBLICAN PARTY CONSERVATIVES. PRETTY INGENIOUS IDEAL, TAKING CANDY FROM A BABY, PROBLEM IS, ALL FOR NOT!

Posted by: opp88 | July 31, 2009 9:13 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS OUT OF THIS WORLD CHARLES. THIS IS FROM REPUBLICAN WEBSITE. CRYING SHAME!

CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING TO STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM SPENDING THEY'RE HARD EARNED ON MAKE BELIEVE?

CRYING SHAME GROWN ACE FOLKS SPENDING THEY'RE PAMPER MONEY ON JUNK.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE BILLBOARD CAMPAIGN

Amount: Five --$5.00Ten -- $10.00Twenty-Five -- $25.00Fifty -- $50.00One Hundred -- $100.00Two Hundred Fifty -- $250.00Five Hundred -- $500.00One Thousand -- $1,000.00 (Shipping Included)


CLICK HERE TO READ ALL RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THE OBAMA ELIGIBILITY ISSUE..

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE YARD AND RALLY SIGN YET??

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUMPER STICKER YET??

Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?

ALLEN KEYS AND OTHER REPUBLICAN PARTY CONSERVATIVES. PRETTY INGENIOUS IDEAL, TAKING CANDY FROM A BABY, PROBLEM IS, ALL FOR NOT!

Posted by: opp88 | July 31, 2009 9:14 PM | Report abuse

There are simple reasons why famous people don't show their birth certificates to public and it is not because they don't have it.

It's embarasing reasons

-Religion (Muslims or Jew or Mormon)
-Not married parrents
-Stupid and senseless sidemarks
-Teenage mother or father
-Signed by mother only

And these are reasons they can get mocked and made fun off or being used against them for the rest of their lives.

This is probably why Obama's real birth certificate would not stop gawking and after all "Certification of Live Birth" is just fine and used by government agencies, military, shools and colleges all around our contry as perfectly acceptable. Those who don't accept it are plain stupid because they just can't tell difference if its just a copy or fake or original.

Posted by: BOBSTERII | July 31, 2009 9:16 PM | Report abuse

All I know is if Obama is a muslim, socialist, marxist, non-native born, anti-christ, he still runs the country ten times better than any republican president in the last 30 years.

Posted by: DrWho2 | July 31, 2009 9:19 PM | Report abuse

You gotta love these nuts who think that it's a racist and/or right-wing fixation.

Last time I checked, Phil Berg, who brought the suit, was a Democrat.

And last time I checked, Alan Keyes, who's also challenging him, was black.

I even question John McCain's qualification, come to think of it.

I voted for Chuck Baldwin.

Posted by: Alexandra73 | July 31, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse


Posted by: DrWho2
All I know is if Obama is a muslim, socialist, marxist, non-native born, anti-christ, he still runs the country ten times better than any republican president in the last 30 years.


HOW DO YOU FIGURE THAT OUT? THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX AND YOU WILL THAT HE IS JUT ONE BETTER BUSH.

Find for example on YouTube "Obama Deception" and you will change your mind after watching that.

Posted by: BOBSTERII | July 31, 2009 9:23 PM | Report abuse

@garylorann2. Way to go Sherlock Holmes!. You came off as pompous,dim witted ass. Any one with access to the internet could have the records that you say are sealed. Apparently, you are not an ace detective as you claimed. You more like Ace Ventura, who speaks thru. you-know-what(loved that movie).

Posted by: Bombones | July 31, 2009 9:25 PM | Report abuse

For the real truth about the nut job birthers go to http://pardontheparody.com/?p=54

Posted by: johndoe14 | July 31, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

catie22,

Nice, but you answered nothing. Your thoughts aren't the same as legal facts. Again provide proof that US law equates "natural born" with citizen at birth.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Wow! Interesting assortment of comments here. I was a baby born to American parents in - oh my god - Saudi Arabia! That must make me a TERRORIST! I have obtained many Passports in my day as a baby, a youth, a young adult and now as a middle aged adult and submitted a "certificate of live birth" every time. I have never had a "long form" copy of a birth certificate and don't know how to get one. I'm a US citizen now and always have been. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath and pay attention to important news.

Posted by: kmorganhome | July 31, 2009 9:31 PM | Report abuse

What’s wrong with saying, to a president who promised unprecedented “transparency”: Give us all the raw data and we’ll figure it out for ourselves?

Posted by: bgabel | July 31, 2009 9:34 PM | Report abuse

So much crazy talk, so little time. You folks need to educate yourselves.
1. Factcheck.org didn't examine the original birth certificate. We don't know where that is - probably given to one of his parents and lost over the years.
2. Factcheck.org did physically examine the Certification of Live Birth that Hawaii gave to Barack Obama. It's real. They held the piece of paper in their hands, and photographed the raised seal. Anyone who hasn't seen their documentation on this subject must WANT to stay misinformed!
3. The head honcho in the dept in Hawaii that handles vital records has said this week that she's examined the original records, and Obama was born in Hawaii. Unless there's a huge conspiracy that goes all the way back to the local hospitals, newspapers, and state workers in 1961, there's no doubt, none whatsoever, that Obama was born in Hawaii.
4. He doesn't have multiple SSN's. That's a lie spread to mislead people.
5. It doesn't matter how old his mother was. She was a citizen, he was born in the USA, and so he's a natural born citizen.
6. It doesn't matter that his father was a British citizen, because Obama would have had to affirmatively chosen to become a British citizen when he turned 18. He didn't. That makes him a natural born US citizen.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Robert Gibbs
We don't need the DNA testing. It is too expensive. Why not just ask Hawaii to release Original birth certificate for less than $20. The only reason they don't,is that it might not match what has already been distributed through internet.

Posted by: n88e88 | July 31, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

dkaag posts
Someone please explain to me why President Obama's published Hawaii birth certificate lists his father as "Black" when the officially accepted term in 1961 on official documents was "Negro"?

Because it lists whatever the parent chooses to call oneself, not what was the "officially accepted term".

Would it be so hard for President Obama to publish a certified true copy of the original document from the birth hospital in Hawaii and lay all of the controversy to rest?

It would likely be impossible, and is completely unnecessary. Infant children are not given the original birth certificates. One copy is kept by the state, and the other copy goes to the parents, not the infant. Since both parents are dead, and original paper documents get lost, he probably doesn't have the long form. And Hawaii got rid of their paper copies several years ago, and now only have soft copies on computers. They use those soft copies to create Certifications of Live Birth, so that form was created from the original source information. One need not see the original Declaration of Independence to know that it exists. Other people have seen it and know it exists, right? Well, other people, like the head of the Vital Records dept in Hawaii, has seen the documentation of Obama's birth records!

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 9:53 PM | Report abuse

This matter has been heard by courts in Hawaii, North Carolina, Texas, Ohio, California, Washington state, and the US Supreme Court. And every time the courts have ruled against the birthers.

The Electoral College voted to elect Obama. The House of Representatives certified the vote.

Birthers prefer to believe that hundreds of judges, citizens, and Congressmen (many of whom dislike Obama's policies and opposed his election) all decided to ignore the fact he did not qualify for office.

You want to oppose Obama's policies then oppose his policies. But at least retain some grasp of reality.

Posted by: pease504 | July 31, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Alexandra posted
Secondly, even IF Obama were born in Hawaii (which is still doubtful), there is the issue of his having been adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, which would have given him Indonesian citizenship. Why isn't this addressed?

He was born in Hawaii. The person who leads the dept that holds vital records has attested to this. There is no doubt.

As that happened, he is enttitled to be a natural born US Citizen. When he turned 18, he would have had to say he wanted to become a citizen of some other nation (Kenya, UK, or Indonesia). He would have had to renounce his US citizenship. He didn't. Therefore, he is a natural born US citizen. End of story.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

I think this is all funny.

I do not sign on to the birther theory, but why are they any less insane then the "selected, not elected" crowd?

Sorry, liberal loonies, what comes around goes around. If you do not like crazy people, then try not to be crazy yourself!

Posted by: heathergreeneyes | July 31, 2009 10:01 PM | Report abuse

There are two kinds of 'birth certificates' that parents get shortly after the birth of their children. There are informal ones given by the hospital, and there are official ones given by the state vital records depts. The hospital drafted ones are not sufficient for getting a passport. The 'long form' ones given by the state are. But if you need a replacement birth certificate, what most states now give out is a short form certification of live birth. That, with a raised seal, is good enough for passports.

So, those of you alleging that what Obama had isn't good enough don't know what you are talking about!!!!

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:02 PM | Report abuse

"He was born in Hawaii. The person who leads the dept that holds vital records has attested to this. There is no doubt.

As that happened, he is enttitled to be a natural born US Citizen. When he turned 18, he would have had to say he wanted to become a citizen of some other nation (Kenya, UK, or Indonesia). He would have had to renounce his US citizenship. He didn't. Therefore, he is a natural born US citizen. End of story."

Once again, the issue of his Indonesian stepfather adopting him IS NOT ADDRESSED.

Either he was an American citizen at birth who acquired Indonesian citizenship, or he was a Kenyan citizen who acquired Indonesian citizenship.

How hard is this to comprehend? Either way you slice it, he has no business being president.

Posted by: Alexandra73 | July 31, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

We don't need the DNA testing. It is too expensive. Why not just ask Hawaii to release Original birth certificate for less than $20. The only reason they don't,is that it might not match what has already been distributed through internet.

Posted by: n88e88

Please educate yourself next time before you make a fool of yourself in public.

Several years ago, Hawaii stopped keeping paper birth records. They converted all the paper records to soft copies. If one asks for a 'copy' of a birth record, you get a Certification of Live Birth that they provide. They look at the source documentation, copy onto state parchment, put their raised seal on it, and send it out. That's what Obama released last year. That's what Factcheck.org had in their hot little hands to examine and take pictures of.

There were likely originally two original state-provided long form birth certificates. One was kept for many years by the State of Hawaii, until they chose to stop keeping paper documents. The other was likely given to one of his parents, and it likely got lost over the years. One does not have to have the original to get a passport. One only has to have a certified copy from the state's Vital Records dept. That's what Obama has shown us.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are racist religious zealots who pray to a white southern male GOD who has let them down by allowing a man of intellect and integrity; who has african blood in him to be fairly elected as our nations President. Americas strength is its diversity and our great country chose the correct natural born citizen to lead us. The kooks had the conch for too long time for the sane to take charge. Our President is bi-racial brown and our nation is growing browner by the day. Look up in one hundred years and America will be a true melting pot no matter how hard these nuts pray to their GOD. Scientists will tell you that all mankind originated in Africa much to their horror. Tell the racist Lou Dobbs to stuff it and go build his border fence by himself. Dobbs, Hannity, Limbaugh are the prophets of the false GOD. To recap you lost bad and praying and lying until you are blue in the face wont make any birther a winner. This comment was written by a Latino US Army veteran born in Miami Florida who's son fought in Iraq as a proud member of the 82nd Airborne and I approve this message Obamanos!

Posted by: pedraza1 | July 31, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Alexandra, that issue has been addressed. No one can take away Obama's right to be a US citizen. He was born in the USA, to a US citizen. That automatically makes him a US citizen, if he so choses. Even if Soetero adopted him (which didn't actually even happen, but even if it had) it still wouldn't change the fact that at 18, Obama was entitled to be a US citizen! No parent can steal that from a child who is born in the USA to a US citizen. The child would have to renounce that US citizenship after he turned 18. Obama didn't do that.

Better to be ignorant and silent than to prove it to all listeners, Alexandra.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:23 PM | Report abuse

To chiapas32:

"It is possible to go to school in another country and not lose your citizenship.
At the time OBAMA did it, he could not. Check the laws."

It's amazing how people feel that they have the right to say falsehood with such conviction, to try and convince people. I don't know if it counts as lying or just plain craziness.

"Check the laws?" Which law, pray tell, are you referring to? Don't make things up. It's not worth your eternal soul.

Posted by: asbestos999 | July 31, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

This matter has been heard by courts in Hawaii, North Carolina, Texas, Ohio, California, Washington state, and the US Supreme Court. And every time the courts have ruled against the birthers.

Posted by: pease504
-------------------------------

Well not exactly; none of the suits has been heard. Many if not most were dismissed on standing. "Standing" is pretty much like saying that if you see a store being robbed (and it's not your store) that you can't take any legal action because it doesn't affect you more than anyone else; it's more complex, but that is the gist of it. There are a number of legal papers in law reviews regarding "standing" and challenges to both Obama and McCain; they are very interesting.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

I respectfully challenge everyone on this post (yes even you nuts down there in your basements) to turn this "Birther" thing on it's head, and take this Pledge: "From this moment on, each time I see or hear the word 'Birther' in the media, I will hug my child, kiss my wife or husband, call an old friend, take some food to the foodbank, laugh out loud, take a walk around the block, ask my neighbor if he needs anything, etc......". Maybe even the "birthers" will get caught up in this pay-it-forward hysteria, and crawl out of the basement into the beautiful sunshine the creator gave us ALL to enjoy !

Posted by: lovetrain | July 31, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and Alexandra, the fact that Alan Keyes is black or that another person who has challenged Obama is a Democrat doesn't change the fact that there is overwhelming evidence that much of the angst over Obama is due to his race.

He classifies himself as black. Yes, he had a white mother. But it's up to him how he classifies himself. Because he had a father directly from Africa, Obama is very dark-skinned for a mixed race person, and so he calls himself black. That's what counts.

Your anecdotal evidence that one person who has gone after him is black, and that another person who has gone after him is a Democrat, and your personal testimony that you are not a Republican means nothing. Anecdotal incidents are not evidence of anything.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:33 PM | Report abuse

Even that bastion of media liberalism, the Kansas City Star, says that the "birthers" are looney toons. I need to invest in some shares of Alcoa Aluminum. There's big money to be made supplying the birthers with the raw material they need to build the hats that keep the alien radio waves out of their brains.

Posted by: caebling | July 31, 2009 10:38 PM | Report abuse

What part of Public Records is hard to understand? I don't have the original copy of the deed to my family lands - it was recorded in the Public Records in the early part of the 20th century. There would be no reason for anyone to go to the courthouse and demand access to the original 100 year old document to verify my ownership. Public records serve as legal notice.

Posted by: TXMM | July 31, 2009 10:40 PM | Report abuse

"Birthers" are all unhinged conspiracy nuts living in a fantasy world.

Posted by: ennepe68 | July 31, 2009 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I don't know where President Obama was born. Apparently no one else knows either, unless it is the President himself. The certification of live birth posted on FactCheck.org was available to Hawaii residents, regardless of where the birth actually took place. What we truth-seeking American citizens wish to see is President Obama's birth certificate listing the hospital where he was born and the attending physician's signature. It has never been presented to any court or legal authority. I was required to show my original birth certificate (or a certified copy if I had lost it) in order to be commissioned as an officer in the U. S. Air Force, to receive a Top Secret security clearance, to receive a passport and be stationed overseas with the USAF, to receive a driver's license in certain states, and to begin receiving Medicare and Social Security. President Obama shows gross disrespect to American citizens and for the U. S. Constitution in refusing to present a legal birth certificate. The Supreme Court has been cowed into utter silence, for it was their duty to accept a court filing and subpoena such a birth certificate if it exists. That long-form birth certificate from a hospital in Hawaii would end the controversy.

Posted by: sallyards | July 31, 2009 10:43 PM | Report abuse

The Electoral College voted to elect Obama. The House of Representatives certified the vote.

Birthers prefer to believe that hundreds of judges, citizens, and Congressmen (many of whom dislike Obama's policies and opposed his election) all decided to ignore the fact he did not qualify for office.

You want to oppose Obama's policies then oppose his policies. But at least retain some grasp of reality.

Posted by: pease504
------------------------------------

If you read about the issue of "standing", you will find that it really doesn't matter whether all those people ignored facts or not because few could actually have done anything - except vote against Obama. Róger Calero, the Socialist Workers Party candidate, was on the presidential ballot in several states in 2004 and 2008; he's not a US citizen. I doubt that you could have had him removed; sure he was not threat, but seems like the same people ignored his qualifications.

I do appreciate the fact that you give people credit for opposing Obama's policies rather than his race. I may not agree with what you said, but you did say it with class.

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Asbestos says "what laws"? Well, the laws of the USA. Here's a link.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=9424d88de8c9f010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

One cannot hardly lose US Citizenship without renouncing it in writing! Obama couldn't have lost it by being adopted - even though he wasn't adopted.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Saying a lie over and over again doesn't make it true. Obama couldn't have his US Citizenship renounced by any parent or step-parent. He was born in Hawaii to a US Citizen. That made him a natural born citizen. End of story.

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

"Can someone tell me where I can find long-form copies of Ronald Reagan's and George W. Bush's birth certificates?"

Actually I'd like to see a copy of Bush's law degree. There's no way that dimwit earned a law degree from Yale.

Also, what's the point of arguing with the flat earth birthers. As Ron White says, "you can't fix stupid".

Posted by: caebling | July 31, 2009 10:51 PM | Report abuse

Sallyards, the long form birth certificate doesn't exist any more. The State of Hawaii moved from paper records to computerized data several years ago. There is no paper long form birth certificate. The duplicate of the state-held form was given to the parents, not the infant Barack Obama Jr. Both parents are dead. Who knows where the original is!

We have seen a certified copy of the original Vital Records kept by Hawaii. That's the Certification of Live Birth. Factcheck.org has laid hands on the actual document. The head of the Vital Records dept in Hawaii has said this week that she has personally examined the original computerized data, and it proves that he was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961.

When you spout such nonsense after the proof has been made readily available, you self-identify yourself as a loon. Why do you dismiss facts and so lovingly embrace easily disproven nonsense?

Posted by: slouise217 | July 31, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

I have a TS/SCI security clearance. In order for me to obtain that level of clearance I had to prove to the government agencies with three letter acronyms that I was a US citizen. The start of this process involves showing them a valid birth certificate. In order to see the stuff that Obama sees he had to prove the same thing to these same agencies, but at a higher level of scrutiny. Are the birthers now saying that all of the intelligence agencies and the DoD in the US are part of this grand conspiracy? Time to add more tin foil to your hats birthers.

Posted by: caebling | July 31, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

awclewis wrote:

Forget about the certificate... his father, Obama Sr. was born in Indonesia

My comment:
His father, the Kenyan was born in Indonesia?

awclewis wrote:

and later adopted by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen causing Obama loose his US citizenship.

My Comment: Have you looked carefully at the law at the time. The law in effect at the time (and still in effect) is that if the custodial parent of a minor becomes a citizen of another country (which didn't happen as Ann Dunham kept her U.S. Citizenship) the minor KEEPS their Citizenship as long as they return to the United States and make it their permanent residency before they are 26. In other words, you are full of it. Again.

Citizenship is a hard thing for a citizen to give up, and its much harder to give up the Citzenship of another even if they are your kid.

Posted by: dcraven925 | July 31, 2009 11:21 PM | Report abuse

"Well not exactly; none of the suits has been heard ... it's more complex, but that is the gist of it"

What's your theory? Those lawsuits were heard, and dismissed, for the perfectly valid reason that the people who brought them had no business bringing them. That's the *actual* gist of "no standing:" it means the court says the matter is none of your business.

In this, the courts put their fingers on it: what's really disgusting about birthers is their certainty that they are the "real" America, the rest of us are just a sham, and we have to jump through through whatever hoops the birthers care to devise (prove this, show me that, etc. etc.)

We elected Obama as president, the Senate certified the result, and the Chief Justice swore him in (twice). We really don't care if you accept that or not. Let us know when you decide to rejoin our country.

Posted by: fzdybel | July 31, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Sallyards, the long form birth certificate doesn't exist any more. The State of Hawaii moved from paper records to computerized data several years ago. There is no paper long form birth certificate. The duplicate of the state-held form was given to the parents, not the infant Barack Obama Jr. Both parents are dead. Who knows where the original is!

We have seen a certified copy of the original Vital Records kept by Hawaii. That's the Certification of Live Birth. Factcheck.org has laid hands on the actual document. The head of the Vital Records dept in Hawaii has said this week that she has personally examined the original computerized data, and it proves that he was born in the state of Hawaii in 1961.

When you spout such nonsense after the proof has been made readily available, you self-identify yourself as a loon. Why do you dismiss facts and so lovingly embrace easily disproven nonsense?

Posted by: slouise217
----------------------------

slouise, It really looks like you are guilty your own accuisation. Dr. Chiyome Fukino did say that she saw the "original vital records". If she doesn't mean the original paper document then her statement is false, she didn't say filmed or copied, she said original. Unless you know more about their record keeping than they do, it would appear that you are the one spouting nonsense when the proof has been made available. The statement is available as a pdf from http://hawaii.gov/health/. Although it isn't available as a news release, the Hawaii DOH also stated that they did not destroy the original vital records.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen..."

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh Please.... The state of state journalism is proven in this authors own writing. Factcheck.org??? Give me a break!!

Your source is an insider in the administrators circle and launched his 5 minute career for crying out loud!!

Factcheck.org=Annenburgh(sp)Foundation=William Ayers. Good God!!

Will you state reporters use Haliburton as a irrefutible source in support of George W Bush??? Same Fricken Thing!!!

Posted by: Bullit44 | July 31, 2009 11:41 PM | Report abuse

Wait a minute, Mary Ann Akers, did you actually say "nonpartison, nonprofit factcheck.org" in the same sentence? We all know that the Annenberg Foundation would especially not be nonpartison. . .but they are the pinnacle of Liberal Media Bias. . .and the perfect shill to be asked to witness a birth certificate.

And lo and behold, look who was the original recipient of a $50 Million contribution from the Annenberg foundation: Why it's the Obama accomplice, William Ayers.
Here's the quote from Wikipedia on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge:

"Beginnings
The three co-authors of Chicago's winning Annenberg Challenge $49.2 million grant proposal were:[17][18]

William Ayers, associate professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago; co-director of the Small Schools Workshop; co-director of the Chicago Forum for School Change—an affiliate of the Coalition of Essential Schools;[19] chairman of the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools (ABCs) coalition;[20][21] former Chicago assistant deputy mayor for education (1989–1990);[21] brother of John Ayers, executive director (1994–2004) of Leadership for Quality Education (an affiliate of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago) and former associate director (1987–1994) of the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club of Chicago; son of Thomas Ayers, former president (1964–1980), chairman and CEO (1973–1980) of Commonwealth Edison and former vice president (1980) of the Chicago School Board". ..(Clipped)

Factcheck.org would not be my choice as a witness nor my source for factual, unbiased
truth in observation or reporting.

Posted by: brvision | July 31, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

What's your theory? Those lawsuits were heard, and dismissed, for the perfectly valid reason that the people who brought them had no business bringing them. That's the *actual* gist of "no standing:" it means the court says the matter is none of your business.

In this, the courts put their fingers on it: what's really disgusting about birthers is their certainty that they are the "real" America, the rest of us are just a sham, and we have to jump through through whatever hoops the birthers care to devise (prove this, show me that, etc. etc.)

Posted by: fzdybel
----------------------

Nope. All you have to do is state things accurately. Lawsuits dismissed on a technicality are not the same as a lawsuit settled on the merit of it's content. I just don't like it when people play with the facts or use half truths to support a position. The person who made the original comment stated it as though the allegations were disproved - not as you said because the person had no business bringing suit. I will leave you with another thought though. If you have no right to challenge your government, who does?

Posted by: tnvret | July 31, 2009 11:50 PM | Report abuse

"

Oh, and Alexandra, the fact that Alan Keyes is black or that another person who has challenged Obama is a Democrat doesn't change the fact that there is overwhelming evidence that much of the angst over Obama is due to his race.

He classifies himself as black. Yes, he had a white mother. But it's up to him how he classifies himself. Because he had a father directly from Africa, Obama is very dark-skinned for a mixed race person, and so he calls himself black. That's what counts.

Your anecdotal evidence that one person who has gone after him is black, and that another person who has gone after him is a Democrat, and your personal testimony that you are not a Republican means nothing. Anecdotal incidents are not evidence of anything."

To say that it's all about race is complete ignorance and stupidity.

I voted for Chuck Baldwin not because he's white, but because HE WOULD UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. I guess you Obamabots don't care about the Constitution anymore than the Bushbots.

Michelle Obama admits Obama was adopted by his stepfather: http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/was-barack-obama-adopted-by-soetoro-how-does-this-affect-citizenship/

http://earlytoday.wordpress.com/2008/08/21/obama-indonesian-citizen/

Posted by: Alexandra73 | August 1, 2009 12:06 AM | Report abuse

"Lawsuits dismissed on a technicality are not the same as a lawsuit settled on the merit of it's content."

In the first place, standing is not a "technicality" but part of the "content" of the lawsuit.

Second, you didn't merely simplify "standing," you completely misrepresented what it's about. It's not at all like reporting a crime. If you think a crime has been committed, go interest a U.S. attorney in prosecuting. You're not entitled to sue.

Beyond that, you can either go get your gun and storm the capital, or you can just wait until 2012 like the rest of us. Did you vote in 2008? That was your big chance to challenge Obama's legitimacy.

Posted by: fzdybel | August 1, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

Whew! It's finally official, he IS the worst President in the history of the USA.
The debate is over, Obama and his Chicago thugs and liberal hangers on have completely destroyed any chance for the USA in 7 short months! Hey lib whiners, I can't wait for 9/11/09, that is when everything "officially" becomes the Obama's-his cabinet and cronies, and most importantly, the fine folks who voted for him-fault!! That is all the time you gave President George W. Bush right?? Ahhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha, Ahhhhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha! Cash for clunkers... Ahhhhhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Franken... Ahhhhh ha ha ha ha ha, you libs suck so bad it hurts.

Posted by: KingLerxst | August 1, 2009 12:17 AM | Report abuse

Obama was born in Kenya ...
We are regularly visited by little green aliens from Alpha Centauri ...
9/11 was a government plot to initiate martial law ...
Astronauts never landed on the Moon ...
There is an alien spaceship that is sucking things into the Bermuda Triangle ...
The Holocaust never happened ...
JFK was assassinated by the mob ...
Bigfoot and Nessie live!!!!

The problem is that we actually give nut-cases and conspiracy theorists equal time ... Not all arguments need to be presented. The fact is this: The State of Hawaii has issued a legal, valid birth certificate ... no different from the copy of the birth certificate I got from the County of Contra Costa in the State of California when I needed to submit a copy so my son could play on the Little League All-Star team. It is a legal document, with an embossed seal certifying the live birth of my son.

End of story ... now all you nut cases, go back to your bomb shelters and eat some spam.

Posted by: davey_m_m | August 1, 2009 12:21 AM | Report abuse

Ignorance and racism are synonymous. There is no shortage of either as demonstrated by these insidious ingrates that question President Obama's citizenship. This unAmerican behavior diminishes them, not our very cerebral, articulate, brilliant President of whom this tenth-generation American whose relative signed the Declaration of Independence and (5-greats) grandfather a hero in the Revolutionary War is very proud. Many brave people, including African Americans, excluding Asians, Jews, Italians, Irish Catholics fought, sacrificed and died for our Democracy and our Constitutional First Amendment freedoms. Any insidious ingrate that is too fragile for our Democracy should find another country. Bon Voyage!

Posted by: Chagrined | August 1, 2009 12:24 AM | Report abuse

On the matter of the President's Birth Certificate in the Long Form.... Just show it and let it go at that. This mumbo jumbo about calling Birthers racist and all that stuff is a smoke screen. Just show it and we, in America, can get on with taxing the rich and punishing people for being successful.

Posted by: barbaro1 | August 1, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

I think we're probably the only country in the world that recognizes intellectual laziness as a virtue.

Sometimes, I wish the Internet never existed. We were a lot better off as a country when we were able to keep all of our stupid people out of sight.

This is such a huge waste of time.

Posted by: retiredzoomie | August 1, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse

I would just like to say that anyone who is still asking for a birth certificate from Obama is an IDIOT. Case closed. Now SHUT UP.

Posted by: nyrunner101 | August 1, 2009 12:46 AM | Report abuse

Mary Ann,

That would be "(dare we say) wacky," not "(dare we say wacky)."

What happened to good old copy editing?

Posted by: paul65 | August 1, 2009 12:57 AM | Report abuse

For me, the issue revolves around transparency and the push-back Obama has given in response to a simple request to release his long-form birth certificate. I was not that curious before but as time goes on, Obama has created the perception that he is hiding something and simply does not want the people to know what his long form birth certificate says. Same with his college records and other documents he has had sealed. So the challenge isn't really about whether he was born in a given hospital or not, but rather that he is hiding some info that he is defiant about. For someone who claimed to be the most transparent President in history, his actions suggest that he has things to hide. That naturally, makes people want to know "Why not?"

Posted by: lookout_63 | August 1, 2009 1:04 AM | Report abuse

"...he is hiding some info that he is defiant about."

If he wanted to hide anything that was on that birth certificate, he would be perfectly entitled to do so. Why? Because he's met all the constitutional requirements already, and whatever might be there to be revealed could never hurt Obama himself, only perhaps someone else. You know, your average newborn infant hasn't much in the way of a past to regret.

More to the point, we need the president to lead, not waste time rehashing his own legitimacy. The election was last year.

Posted by: fzdybel | August 1, 2009 1:19 AM | Report abuse

Birthers don't exist. The liberal media invented them to make the administration's opponents look like delusional morons.

Posted by: DupontJay | July 31, 2009 4:45 PM

=================

Oh yeah, go look at some of the videos on You Tube then say that. The illuminati morons even filed a lawsuit. They'd be better off putting their effort into the three buildings that were blown up on 9,11. Now there's something worth looking in to.

Posted by: HemiHead66 | August 1, 2009 1:28 AM | Report abuse

Birthers! What idiot dreamed up this one? The result of little or no education and too much inbreeding. I'd check out the family trees of these kooks - chances are Grandaddy Festus is also daddy as well as uncle.

Posted by: 10emlet | August 1, 2009 1:35 AM | Report abuse

The "birthers' are a twisted and mentally deformed sect, all of whom were born in Fiji and are passsing as Americans and are perfect examples of where the mothers should have thrown away the baby and kept the stork.

Posted by: 10emlet | August 1, 2009 1:42 AM | Report abuse

NotFooledTX said:
"You're right steve, birthers aren't republicans, they're gullible fools and morons. Oh wait, that's the definition of republicans. Ok, their intellectually lazy bigots. Oh, darn, that's a definition of republicans too. Well, you're just wrong steve - birthers ARE republicans."

You sound like one of those wacky moronic left wing Democratic bigots.

Posted by: jbartlebee | August 1, 2009 1:50 AM | Report abuse

The question of Obama's birth goes much deeper than what you have stated here. If Obama was not born in Kenya, why does his paternal grandmother swear she was in the hospital in Nairobi when he was born? Surely she would remember her only white daughter in law. Why has the Government of Kenya placed a gag order on Obama's relatives and forbidden anybody in Obama's family in Kenya to speak to anyone in the press without a member of the Kenyan government being present? Why have they sealed all Obama's records in Kenya? If he was not born in Kenya, why are his records there? Why are all of Obama's scholastic records in the US from kindergarten to college sealed and not made available to the public? Why has the press failed in their duty to investigate any of these questions?
If in fact Obama was born in Hawaii as claimed, why not release the original vault copy of his birth certificate and end these questions once and for all? When John McCain was questioned about his birth in the Panama Canal Zone he had no problem producing his original birth certificate.
What is it about Obama that they are afraid to let people know?
America has a right to know who their president is!
Let my people know!

Posted by: wantstoknow | August 1, 2009 1:57 AM | Report abuse

MarcMyWords said:
"This is all just thinly cloaked racism from folks who cant stand the fact that we have a black president."

Actually President Obama is mixed race. His mother was a white woman. So, did you fail to mention that fact due to thinly cloaked racism on your part?

Posted by: jbartlebee | August 1, 2009 1:57 AM | Report abuse

I'll start believing the birthers like Lou Dobbs and Steve when they post online their Certificates of Public Safety, showing they have been certified no longer a danger to public safety or themselves. They should also show that the court approved their release.

Posted by: MarkofLewiston1 | August 1, 2009 2:00 AM | Report abuse

It is being challenged that he was not born in Hawaii, but issued a BC upon parental request, which I think was legal in Hawaii at that time. Also, it is being challenged that he gave up any citizenship when he moved to Indonesia as a small child. His US citizenship would have to been revoked due to Indonesia been in conflict, only children with citizenship could attend school at that time, which he did for several years. Then it is also being challenged that he claimed himself as a foreign national to receive grant money, which he was awarded, and did use. This information was gathered from, several article written that were posted on the internet, or actual suits that were filed. The question still remains... Why, if there is nothing to hide, does he continue to hide?

Posted by: freedomplease | August 1, 2009 2:06 AM | Report abuse

I don't really care about this birth thing at this point. The dude occupies our house now (even though he always tells us it's his house now).

My observation here is this: some people complain about the certificate, and you BHO supporters immediately go off on them calling them "idiots, morons, racist, bigots.". And that "all repubs are racist," and so forth.

Ranting on and on with nothing more than "name calling" is the first sign of a complete lack of intelligence. So keep yourbuts off the wire and leave it open for thoughtful discussion instead of playground antics.

Oh, that reminds me! What's the first thing BHO did when "his widdoh fwend gates got his widdow feewings hurt?". He started calling the cops names. I have no doubt that if he wasn't the potus he'd be calling them lots of other names that the networks would have to bleep out. Can the man construct even a simple sentence without the TelePrompTer? "Great speaker," Ha!

Posted by: dlreoch | August 1, 2009 2:19 AM | Report abuse

"What idiot dreamed up this one?"

Republican political operatives. It was a whispering campaign that got started up only after Obama had a clear lead in the Democratic primaries. There were several, all intended to make Obama look like a scary choice for president: he was a racist, he was a terrorist or friend of terrorists, he was a Muslim, and, oh yes, he's the Manchurian candidate by way of Kenya. When the Obama people published an image of Obama's birth certificate in reply to this last, there was an immediate new campaign to the effect that it was a forgery. Various murky characters declared e.g. that the compression artifacts in the image showed, in their expert opinion, that it had been photo-shopped. Eventually that was completely debunked. At this point, the image is generally conceded to be genuine, but the discussion has moved on to demands for additional birth certificates.

If any additional birth certificate could be produced, it would of course immediately be denounced as a forgery, and the discussion would go on for at least another six months. Let's hope nobody adds further fuel to this fire.

Posted by: fzdybel | August 1, 2009 2:20 AM | Report abuse

Here is an interesting point of view:

If President Obama held a press conference Monday morning and announced: "The birthers are right; I was really born in a thatched hut just outside Nairobi. My mother snuck me back into the country via spy submarine (that's why we picked Hawaii) and secret agents published my birth notice in 2 local newspapers. We also dummied up a COLB so that I could get a driver's license and passport (why we didn't fake a "real" birth certificate escapes me)."

And you know what? If he did indeed make this statement and it was true, THERE'S NOTHING THE BIRTHERS CAN DO ABOUT IT!!! The only procedure for removing a sitting President is impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate. Do you really think the vast majority of Democrats in the House and Senate would impeach him?

And even if they did, what have you stupid birthers accomplished? Joe Biden would become President (and just to poke you in the eye, he'd probably pick Hillary Clinton for VP). Biden would continue the Obama policies, so what have you gained?

On the extreme long-shot that both Obama & Biden were impeached for faking his citizenship, guess what? Your favorite whipping boy, Nancy Pelosi, would become President. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

Have you really thought this through?

Posted by: michaeldgiles | August 1, 2009 2:22 AM | Report abuse

steveb777,

Is this just a joke or are you for real? The burden of proof is on you, not Barack. There is a presumption of innocence which operates in our judicial system.

Or would you like us to presume you are merely lying in order to pursue some wacko political beliefs?

Show us the money, Steve. Don't waste our time with your paltry attempts at pushing the burden of proof onto OB.

Posted by: JerryZ1 | August 1, 2009 2:26 AM | Report abuse

One of these days some birther is actually going to read Title 8, Section 1401 of the US Code. Nah, that would ruin the fantasy and the delusion that Obama isn't natural born. If they read further, they'd see a parent cannot strip a child of natural citizenship.

Too much to think that birthers would go so far as to actually look up law. Conspiracy theories are too much fun and the courts haven't re-confined anybody for their own or public safety YET.

Posted by: MarkofLewiston1 | August 1, 2009 2:28 AM | Report abuse

Danfromphilly posed the question "Wouldn't Obama be a natural born citizen even if he was born in Kenya? (which I am NOT saying he was) After all, nobody is debating that his mother is an American citizen by birth?'

The answer is absolutely yes. .Even if Obama was born in Kenya (which, of course, he wasn't) he'd still be a US citizen because his mother is a US citizen. This is such a non-issue.

Posted by: sagebrush1 | August 1, 2009 2:36 AM | Report abuse

There is something on the original form he is hiding.

Just like he is hiding his college admission scores.

Obama hates transparency even though he claims it all the time. He is a liar.

Transparency is the enemy of Obama.

Posted by: bug45 | August 1, 2009 2:39 AM | Report abuse

They don't really expect anyone to believe that Obama isn't a citizen and that Joe Biden should be president instead. The point of birtherism is to keep the drumbeat of "He's black, he's Muslim, his father was an immigrant, he's special, he's not like you, he thinks he's better than you" going. The House Republicans who flirt with the birthers and seek their votes still voted for the Hawaii resolution which said in part that Obama was born there. Even Michelle Bachmann and co. won't go on the permanent record doubting the authenticity of Obama's American birth, they just hope the real crazies do because they need their money and votes.

Posted by: light_bearer | August 1, 2009 2:43 AM | Report abuse

Please go read the factcheck.org article on this: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
and stop embarassing yourselves, they DID examine the original, it does list his time of birth and his parents names are listed, and the location, and is signed by an official.

From reading this and listening to many people, it seems that there has been a deliberate campaign to spread misinformation about the certificate of live birth, stop being sheep go read for yourselves before you make these claims.

As for the person who suggested that Obama is a muslim and ranted about how muslims want to take over the US, and what better way than as President yada yada yada, you have the least faith in the United States of all.

You have no faith in freedom or in America. Any exposure he would have had to radical islam would have happened at the latest in grade school. And to believe that that would have stuck with him through growing up in Hawaii, with loving American grandparents, getting one of the best educations available in this country, meeting and marrying a wonderful woman, and having two beautiful daughters shows that you really must not believe in us much at all or our way of life.

Posted by: ImaTexan2 | August 1, 2009 2:47 AM | Report abuse

I cannot prove where President Obama was born, but I can prove where he was NOT born. He was NOT born in the Republic of Kenya, because that state did not yet exist at the time of his birth. The country achieved its independence from Great Britain a year or so later. Obama's father came to Hawaii with a British passport, as a subject of Queen Elizabeth II. So if Obama is not a natural-born American, then he is native-born British--like Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Monroe before him. The proof of this is that the UK honored the passports of colonials, who migrated to the British Isles after both American and African independence.
While I am importuning myself into this discussion, I should also mention that, while embassies are considered American soil, military bases are only leased from the countries around them. Guantanamo and the Canal Zone are not American territories, but have been held under near-perpetual leases. If the protection of American law does not adhere to prisoners in Guantanamo, then American children born in the Canal Zone are not natural citizens. You cannot have it both ways.
Why not continue? American law until recently required naturalized citizens to renounce their prior citizenship. Children of American parents born overseas retained the option of either citizenship until they came of age, and then they could declare which country commanded their loyalty. Since President Obama has declared himself an American, he is so, even if he was born overseas, because it is his own declaration that makes him so, by federal law.
Under current law it is possible to hold dual citizenship. If an Israeli marries an American, their children now have full right in both countries. There is no impediment to Kenya granting Obama citizenship rights, and that would no way impugn his standing as a natural-born American.

Posted by: ponessa | August 1, 2009 3:04 AM | Report abuse

“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain

Posted by: atlanta54 | August 1, 2009 3:07 AM | Report abuse

I'm surprised that Philip Berg's legal argument in his civil lawsuit against Obama has not received more attention. The claim that Obama forfeited his citizenship by becoming an Indonesian citizen, and then not correctly regaining citizenship thereafter has me wondering about Obama's skeletons in the closet more than the allegations of him not being born in Hawaii. On page 9 of Berg's filing #27 in Berg v. Obama (check out Justia.com), Berg alleges that he has proof of Obama's Indonesian citizenship. Now, I'm aware of how the courts have been handling the issue, and I don't really care about the outcome. But the fact that in our public discourse we are debating Obama's citizenship status as credentials for occupying the presidency, I wonder why he has not been more up-front with his past travels.

This doesn't concern me in terms of his citizenship status. Rather, for reasons why the natural-born citizen clause is in the Constitution in the first place. The Founders understood the potential hazards of conflict of interest that could result from a natural-born citizen of another (European in their time) country or a colonial power establishing itself via a foreign-born president. These concerns -- I don't care how you align politically -- are reasonable and important for any American. It's the same reason why I support(ed) a look into McCain's background. Without the utmost fidelity and loyalty to the nation, there could be serious problems ahead. I personally feel that so far Obama has shown a level of international loyalties; he has toured the world courting other nations, and there's no doubt that he acquired his sympathies thanks to his many years living abroad. Whether or not this has been, is, or will be a problem, I think is worth debating at least. Yes, let the conspiracy theory subside, but let's discuss in all seriousness to what extent our president may not be acting in the best interests of our national security. (And let's certainly set aside petty partisan politics and speak as Americans in, what I believe, is clearly and manifestly a sensitive issue.)

Posted by: davidicus | August 1, 2009 3:10 AM | Report abuse

"I personally feel that so far Obama has shown a level of international loyalties; he has toured the world courting other nations, and there's no doubt that he acquired his sympathies thanks to his many years living abroad."

There's nobody I admire more than a man who is willing to put aside his debunked conspiracy theory and settle for whatever F.U.D. he can get.

Posted by: fzdybel | August 1, 2009 3:22 AM | Report abuse

To Davidicus

Berg's argument was bogus and thrown out by the court. See Title Sect 1401 US Code et seq.

Sorry, but this is entirely about politics. It is also an attack on John McCain and me and the child of every other American service person born abroad.

Posted by: MarkofLewiston1 | August 1, 2009 3:23 AM | Report abuse

Anyone who disputes whether or not Barack Obama is qualified to be President of the United Statesby virtue of his place of birth is a delusional moron. (period)

Posted by: Pluribus1 | August 1, 2009 3:28 AM | Report abuse

I could care less where he was born. Obama is a US Citizen who was elected by an overwhelming majority. The American people gave him the right to hold the office.

A couple of nutjobs don't have the right to oust him based on a fictional technicality.

Posted by: paulmd1 | August 1, 2009 3:35 AM | Report abuse

@fzdybel

I think you misunderstood my comment. I could not care less about the conspiracy, and I've never bought into it. There is, though, a very serious clause in our Constitution about natural-born citizen requirements for the office of president for a reason, and I believe we can and should debate how well our president measures up. Obama's behavior toward other nations ought to concern everyone; Bush's international relations certainly did, and rightfully so. Berg, I think, brought up a good point, regardless of how the courts decide the issue, not because it would disqualify Obama from being president, but because of how Obama's upbringing might influence his current policies and behaviors -- and it's the current administration's behavior that I feel is relevant and worthy of debate, not a phony conspiracy. His upbringing may be precisely what many Americans want in their president, someone who would have a more international sense of the issues; for others, it may be incongruent with how they want the president to navigate through the international political community. I think that's relevant and worth debating at least.

Posted by: davidicus | August 1, 2009 3:37 AM | Report abuse

"I think that's relevant and worth debating at least."

Mother pie, eh?

I think your vile innuendo is about as close as you feel you can come to accusing Obama of laxity in the pursuit of American interests in the international sphere. Of course, lord alone knows how you define American interests.

If you want to have a debate, you'd better get more specific than Obama's childhood.

Posted by: fzdybel | August 1, 2009 5:05 AM | Report abuse

Danfromphilly (echoing many other posts here) asked: "Wouldn't Obama be a natural born citizen even if he was born in Kenya? ... After all, nobody is debating that his mother is an American citizen by birth?"

I'm surprised that no one has correctly answered this question. I'll cite the relevant statute below.

The answer in Obama's case, unfortunately, is no, he would not be a natural born citizen.

The Nationality Act of 1940 (revised June 1952) confers U.S. nationality on a child born outside the United States only under certain circumstances, including: "(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."

Ann Dunham did not meet the 5-year-after-14 requirement until her 19th birthday in November 1961, several months after Obama was born.

So technically, if Obama had been born outside U.S. territory, he would not have been a natural born U.S. citizen (or a U.S. citizen at all, for that matter).

Posted by: jfinlayson1 | August 1, 2009 5:16 AM | Report abuse

All of congress should show us their birth certificates,while we're at it lets drug test them and take away their government insurance

Posted by: mmaza1 | August 1, 2009 5:51 AM | Report abuse

"When I had to obtain a passport the State Department would not recognize a statement of live birth but required me to obtain an actual copy of a birth certificate from my state. Why is that different for others?"

My experience exactly. My parents presented me with my "birth certificate," the only one they ever had, when I was 18 or 20 years old. Although stamped and hand-signed at my birth, the "original" had no raised seal. Replacing that one with a legal document was a very simple process.

From the media frenzy, after all these months, I don't know whether or not Obama has produced a legal document. We hear he has, and we hear he has not. Because of the constitutional requirement, it is preposterous for the New York Times to ask why he should bother.

Easy fix!

Posted by: lalo60 | August 1, 2009 6:02 AM | Report abuse

Republicans are just s$tupid, they have so much hate and envy, reason is lost.

Posted by: msilva2 | August 1, 2009 6:03 AM | Report abuse

Idiots.

I was born in Hawaii. And *I* don't have a "long form" birth certificate. None of my siblings do either. The original - I was born in 1958 - about the same time as Obama - was lost over the years in home moves or whatever. My two brothers and sisters too. In fact, I'm not sure what a Hawaii "long form" looks like.

I have the exact certificate of live birth that the Obama team has produced. It's what you get when you ask for a birth certificate from the State (of Hawaii). I've used it to get a passport, etc.

You notice how the REPUBLICAN Governor, REPUBLICAN Lt. Governor (who've I've met and worked with on a project last year), the State Republican Party Chair, and all of the Hawaii local Republican politicians are all NOT all over TV endorsing the birthers? None of them are on Fox "News" waving their "long form" birth certificates all over TV. Why?

Because only stupid haoles who have never been to Hawaii and think that "long form" certificates grow on pineapple plants are clamoring for said "long form". Folks who actually KNOW Hawaii - including all of the REPUBLICANS there - know better. As I do, having been born and raised in Hawaii.

LASTLY - my credentials in this, usually anonymous cyberspace.

I was born in Wahiawa General Hospital. Their main switchboard number is (808) 621-8411. Try and get them to connect you with an old-timer, someone who grew up in Wahiawa in the 60s. And confirm this stuff that's not google-able:

1. The old Coronet store on California Avenue. Two floors, street level and basement. Parking lot on the other side of the store (away from California Ave), across a small street, next to Marion's Catering.

2. If they lived down toward Homelani (at the end of California Avenue) - toward Kaala Elementary School....Next to Olive Methodist Church, adjacent to Kaala School, was a small cemetery. IN the corner, along Calif. Ave, next to Church, was a small stone building with some sort of shrine there. Used to spook my brothers and I.

3. If they lived "up the heights", the little kid playground at Iliahi School was up at the heights end of the school.

4. I went to elementary and middle school at King's Bible School on Wilikina Drive, outside of Wahiawa on the way to schofield barracks. The school was small, as you arrived, there was a pink 2-story apt bldg just before the entrance (which doubled as the basketball courts - 8' baskets).

Call around if you don't believe me.

Posted by: Hawaiiexpat | August 1, 2009 6:12 AM | Report abuse

The wingnut "birthers" are not interested in facts, just to attack someone they hate. These are the same sorts of people who still think Vince Foster was murdered and that Jane Fonda is hiding under their bed.

Posted by: evelyn911 | August 1, 2009 7:32 AM | Report abuse

Re: "Birth Certificate" vs. "Certificate of Live Birth"

My sons were born in Hawaii in the 1980's. I have both of their long-form certificates. At the top, they both say CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH.

There is no "Birth Certificate." The standard Hawaii certificate, both for long-form and for short-form, is a COLB.

Posted by: mainer6 | August 1, 2009 8:28 AM | Report abuse

I don't really know or care if he does or doesn't have a 'birth certificate' but for some to say, "We don't destroy vital records," as (Department of Health spokeswoman, Janice) Okubo said. "That's our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records..." is a crock! Anyone with a few dollars can make any inconvenient piece of paper change or disappear!

It happens all the time and if you believe it doesn't, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn!

Posted by: joeblotnik49 | August 1, 2009 8:49 AM | Report abuse

The last thing Obama should do is make any attempt to produce the original document. Not only is it not necessary, but he greatly benefits from the controversy because the birthers help undermine the credibility of his opponents.

They even make me wonder why I am a registered Republican.

Posted by: padutcher | August 1, 2009 9:02 AM | Report abuse

steveb777 wrote: "Birthers aren't republicans. Birthers are seekers of truth and honesty in elections and the rule of law!"

No, birthers are nutcases who happen to be the best thing that could happen to the Dems.

Where's YOUR birth certificate, buddy?

Posted by: Garak | August 1, 2009 9:06 AM | Report abuse

Sarah Palin did not graduate from high school as far as I know. Oh, she CLAIMS she did, but I won't believe it until I see her diploma.

SARAH PALIN - WE DEMAND YOU SHOW US YOUR HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA!!

Posted by: dastubbs | August 1, 2009 9:07 AM | Report abuse

How can you not love that this issue is eating the republicans alive?

Posted by: zackool | August 1, 2009 9:13 AM | Report abuse

President Obama is doing the correct thing in not caving in to the demands of the delusional (republicans). For to argue with fools only makes you a fool.

Posted by: monel7191 | August 1, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

I hate to tell these fruitcakes, but a lot of people born here in the U.S. don't have the "original" of their birth certificate, I for one, have no idea where my "original" is? I have a copy from my city's office of vital records and that copy has been satisfactory proof for the State Department to issue me numerous passports over the years.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue dreamed up by a bunch of racist, right-wingers who can't bare the idea of a black man in the White House. Well, my response to that is get over it and if you have nothing better to do, go try and find Elvis.

Posted by: laSerenissima2003 | August 1, 2009 10:36 AM | Report abuse

To quote Ron White "You can't fix stupid"

Posted by: tim7 | August 1, 2009 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Obama changed his birth name of Steven Alan Smith to Barack Hussein Obama as part of a plot to become President of Kenya.

Only he misread his instructions from his Kenyan handlers in the US who simply said "Run for President" so he ran for US president.

Posted by: AlanGoldberg54 | August 1, 2009 10:48 AM | Report abuse

Something tells me that the say croud that is whining about the lawsuit on Obama being dropped is much the same croud that was whining and crying about all the ethics complaints against Palin. Remember, Obama has that "department of law" (as Palin put it) to insulate him from baseless claims. I'm sure some of the claims against Palin were baseless, but we know that at least one of them was not.

Posted by: WapoGestapo | August 1, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

brvision: so following your thread of "logic" about the Annenberg Foundation and Ayers brings us to Ron and Nancy Reagan, who were very close friends with the strong REPUBLICANS, the Annenbergs. So were Ron and Nancy in on this conspiracy too? It would seem so by your post. If Factcheck.org is was started by the annenberg foundation, then why are you contesting what they said? they're GOPers, for crying out loud, why would they cover up anything that would derail the Prez? The venerable WSJ has debunked this ridiculous theory! Yet you birthers are out there....hey! I know, let's start another conspiracy and we'll call it birthers2. Sarah Palin should be charged with child endangerment for flying from Texas with her amniotic fluid leaking. Every pregnant woman knows, especially with her fifth, you start leaking, you get to a hospital. you don't fly from Texas with a stop off in Seattle. She said she wanted Trig born in Alaska. So why not go to the hospital in Anchorage? why drive and hour after landing in Anchorage, and go to the Wasilla hospital? Some people might think she was trying to cause the child to maybe not make it, so she wouldn't have to tell everyine about her secret pregnancy...
Actually, what I said actually makes sense and has alot more truthiness about it than this whole birth certificate nonsense. And made me question her judgement way more than any interview or speech.

Posted by: katem1 | August 1, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

Regarding the "testimony" of Obama's Kenyan grandmother that she was present at his birth. Obama's father, while attending Harvard, met and married ANOTHER white American woman, who moved back to Kenya with him and bore him several sons IN KENYA before divorcing him there. Obama's elderly, non-English speaking grandmother confused the birth of one of these sons with the birth of Barack. This is not surprising at all. The relationships are all detailed in Dreams from My Father, where Barack Obama speaks of meeting with his father's third wife and his half brothers, still resident in Kenya, when he traveled to Kenya for the first time as an adult, after his father's death, before attending Harvard Law School.

Posted by: Lamentations | August 1, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

"To Steveb777: Are you aware John McCain was born in Panama which is not part of the U.S. If you want a conspiracy why not make it bi-partisian.

Posted by: Roger21 | July 31, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse"

are you aware that Mccain was born in a naval base which is considered American soil...

Posted by: DwightCollins | August 1, 2009 12:01 PM | Report abuse

The barely-glowing embers of this natural birth issue are likely being fanned by the conservative foundations, who send out emails and phone calls to conservative organizations nationwide to continue the 'controversy'.
They continue to goose this little fireworks show and delight in distracting the media focus from their other, more determined efforts to undermine the administration's agenda.
Don't become too distracted and believe that the conservatives are not smart enough to come up with something better--they are advancing this 'non-controversy' as a red herring to crowd out their real work from media attention.

Posted by: 2dumb2shutup | August 1, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Why doesn't Obama just come right out and show the original copy of his birth certificate? How hard is that? If he did, the "birthers" would shut up once and for all.

Posted by: heatherczerniak | August 1, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

this is at the end of the day a religious argument. Evengelical christians believe nationality comes from the father, so, his father was kenyan, he is kenyan, facts and law must bow down before God. God said the children of Abraham are children of Israel,
therefore all Children of Barack Obama are Kenyan.

Everything else is an attempt to force the facts to fit this belief.

Posted by: patb | August 1, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

the facts are that the bush clan is a group of extra terrestrial war profiteers that need the birthers to create a distraction since their human suits are starting to fray.

it's their way of saying no health care for the humans

Posted by: samuraitinkertoy | August 1, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

OBAMA'S MOTHER WAS NAMED STANLEY.
STANLEY IS NOT A WOMAN'S NAME.
OBAMA'S "MOTHER" WAS REALLY A MAN.
IT'S ALL A BIG COVER-UP.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
WAKE UP AMERICA!
FOLLOW THE LOGIC!
KEEP AMERICA FOR REAL AMERICANS!

~ ~ Palin-Wurzelbacher 2012 ~ ~

Posted by: EyesWideOpen8 | August 1, 2009 1:27 PM | Report abuse

Idiots - can any of you produce a long form birth certificate. No, you can't, because such a thing does not exist. Go find yours - I challenge you

Posted by: JohnDinHouston | August 1, 2009 1:32 PM | Report abuse

On a similar note, I refuse to recognize Santa Claus as the de facto figurehead of secular Christmas. He claims to be of the North Pole, yet his officially-recognized citizenship status includes Canadian, Norwegian, and Swede among others. This conflicts with his place of birth in what is now Turkey.

I demand that a long-form birth certificate be produced immediately, else I will return all of his gifts this holiday season WITHOUT a receipt to the nearest major department store. Impeach Santa Clause!

Ho, ho, ho indeed! What say you, jolly man?

Posted by: paperboy76 | August 1, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

cessnadriver wrote:
I know for a fact that the Hawaii "Certification of Live Birth" is fake, because Hawaii does not exist.

"Scientists" point out "Hawaii" on their "Globes", but the indisputable fact is that Hawaii is off of the edge of Earth's disk, and if Hawaii was where they said it was, it would be on the bottom of the disk of the Earth, and everything there would fall off.

If you don't agree with me, you are stupid and uninformed. I know it's true because I read it on the internets.

Some people claim to have been to "Hawaii", but they have been fooled by the government. They were taken in planes to Norton Air Force Base and placed in virtual reality simulators.

Posted by: CessnaDriver | July 31, 2009 5:25 PM

BRILLIANT!!! I ♥ CessnaDriver!

Posted by: Nosy_Parker | August 1, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Birthers can't even describe what a "long form" certificate is supposed to look like, nor can they provide evidence that Hawaii even creates such things for distribution. Face it nutjobs, you've brought it on yourselves and now you want to whine because enough people have realized how insane you are and have decided to give you the mocking you deserve. Let me call you a waaaambulance for your hurt feelings, cowards.

Posted by: washpost18 | August 1, 2009 2:13 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are racists, xenophobes or both.

Only 42% of Republicans are not birthers. The rest are angry that a black man is their President.

Well, don't like it? Leave.

Posted by: HumanSimpleton | August 1, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

why does everybody keep saying that obama is a blace president, when he has a white mother and is a muslim, in my opion he is just as much white as he is black and he is definetly a muslim. remember his full name 'HUSSEn" just like huduem hussen. i am not prediduce, if he was any other black person in high office and had got elected president it would be just as proud as to have a black president as a white president. but the truth is the truth, the musslems have been wanting to take over our country and what better way than for us to elect a muslem as president. there are a lots of black men and women that i think would make a good president, condelessa rice is one of them. and several men i have seen as senators or rep. i think that he should be honest enought to produce his original birth certificate. it is very easy to fake any documents to day.

Posted by: cjohnson7777charternet
==

You must be one of the really dumb birthers, and that's saying something.

Posted by: HumanSimpleton | August 1, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

EARWAX!!!!


That is all.

Posted by: lostinthemiddle | August 1, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

had obama been born on the farthest planet in the galaxy, i'd take him as president over the likes of palin, mccain, romney, or huckabee in a new york minute!

Posted by: jimfilyaw | August 1, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

heatherczerniak wrote: "Why doesn't Obama just come right out and show the original copy of his birth certificate? How hard is that? If he did, the 'birthers' would shut up once and for all."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, they wouldn't. They would immediately declare it a fake.

Conspiracy theorists are paranoid and obsessed. They don't permit mere facts to sully their irrational beliefs.

If they did, the birther movement would have ended ladt year, when the state of Hawaii publically verified that the birth certificate Obama released onlined was indeed real.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 1, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

No amount of rational explanation, fact checking, forensic investigation or certified public records will convince the birthers to stop their rabblerousing. They are motivated by one, or a combination of considerations not subject to reason. Some just love conspiracies and search for any circular logic that can support their absurd world view. These are the same gullible folks that “psychics” love. They embrace malicious rumors as truth and reject any credible rebuttal with closed ears. Some are racists that simply hate the idea that a black man could be elected president and they hang on to any argument that they can point to as evidence that Obama is not the genuine elected leader. Finally, there are those who are intelligent, political opportunist who smell a good controversy – like Lou Dobbs and certain extreme right politicians. These people care little for our country and much for their own ego. In the end, they are probably the least patriotic and most selfish of the birthers.

Posted by: MdLaw | August 1, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

My sincere thanks to Lou Dobbs,Faux news and all the other right wing loonies. Please keep it up your whole ridiculous effort this is priceless and should insure the GOP remains in its antediluvian morass for a few more decades.

Posted by: Sharpjohng | August 1, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

i'm glad to see this matter aired although we can be sure the wingnuts will always find some new gimmick. just so long as they don't all arm themselves, we're o.k.

Posted by: htathom86 | August 1, 2009 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Let's see. We've got the birthers, Rush Limburger, Glenn Beck, Laura Whats-her-Name, Newtie-Tootie, and a host of others. Don't tell me they're not Republicans, and don't tell me they're not neocons.

They embody the absolute worst in America today -- ignorant, opinionated and full of hot air.

Posted by: loulor | August 1, 2009 5:05 PM | Report abuse

Last time I checked, you absolutely, positively can't prove a negative. If Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, then PROVE it.

Posted by: jim98851 | August 1, 2009 5:58 PM | Report abuse

There is nothing more "FRIGHTENING", than "ACTIVE IGNORANCE".

Posted by: austininc4 | August 1, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Just to set the record straight ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! I have a physical copy of the birth certificate purported by CRAZY MOON BATS that proves it was doctored and IS NOT Obama's. I cannot put it online because the government will take it down and maybe even find me to take it back. TRUST ME, he is NOT American.

My family is from Hawai'i and BELIEVE me, there is absolutely no such thing as a certificate of live birth. We have birth certificates just like everyone else.

PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!!

Posted by: northshorepa | August 1, 2009 7:11 PM | Report abuse

While these "birthers" are a mere annoyance to the President they are pathetic embarrassments to their families.

Posted by: metroman76 | August 1, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

northshorepa (who may only be doing an impression of a crazed Obama-hater) wrote:

"TRUST ME, he is NOT American. PLEASE BELIEVE ME!!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Um, okay, but promise not to have meltdown if I point out that a certificate of live birth IS a birth certificate.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 1, 2009 7:30 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are nothing more than racists who are latching onto this fragment of fictional tripe as cover for their own bigotry. They need to go wash their white hoods and leave us adults who live in the real world alone.

Posted by: scooterndc | August 1, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

THIS IS OUT OF THIS WORLD CHARLES. THIS IS FROM REPUBLICAN WEBSITE. CRYING SHAME!

CAN'T YOU DO ANYTHING TO STOP THESE PEOPLE FROM SPENDING THEY'RE HARD EARNED ON MAKE BELIEVE?

CRYING SHAME GROWN ACE FOLKS SPENDING THEY'RE PAMPER MONEY ON JUNK.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE BILLBOARD CAMPAIGN

Amount: Five --$5.00Ten -- $10.00Twenty-Five -- $25.00Fifty -- $50.00One Hundred -- $100.00Two Hundred Fifty -- $250.00Five Hundred -- $500.00One Thousand -- $1,000.00 (Shipping Included)


CLICK HERE TO READ ALL RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THE OBAMA ELIGIBILITY ISSUE..

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE YARD AND RALLY SIGN YET??

HAVE YOU PURCHASED YOUR WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BUMPER STICKER YET??

Would you like to see more awareness of the serious questions about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president of the United States? Are you frustrated by the lack of media coverage of this constitutional issue? How would you like to join in a campaign to generate public debate and discussion?

Posted by: opp88 | August 1, 2009 7:49 PM | Report abuse

These "birther" people are not quite sane. The funny thing is their tinfoil hat behavior gets treated with such seriousness by anyone at all.

Posted by: timscanlon | August 1, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Apparently only 50% of Repubs believe this crap. So I won't say ALL Republicans are morons, just the ones who believe this fervently because they just cannot accept that an intelligent, competent, classy black man beat their candidate. For the past 9 years, these idiots whined about how anyone criticizing (if not insulting) the president was a traitor. I guess if you're fat, ignorant and racist then traitor is implied as part of your ignorance? Jackasses...

Posted by: avidwpreader | August 1, 2009 9:45 PM | Report abuse

The name on the birth certificate is Barry Soweto. Hopefully that is the same person that is now Barack Obama, and he didn't pull a switcheroo by assuming Barry's ID and birth certificate.

Posted by: georgejones5 | August 1, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Georgejones5 says, "The name on the birth certificate is Barry Soweto."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is? The one I'm looking at says Barack Hussein Obama. What birth certificate are you looking at?

(By the way, Soweto is a township in South Africa. I think you mean Soetoro.)


Posted by: Krisipuu | August 1, 2009 10:48 PM | Report abuse

I read this line in a story about Orly Taitz, which summarizes so well why I follow the doings of the birther crowd:

“There’s a certain amount of fascination with unbridled insanity, and that’s what you’re seeing with the birthers: a level of hatred that borders, if not absolutely pole-vaults, into insanity.”.

The best thing to come out of all of this is Berg's lawsuit against Orly, as well as watching Berg and Taitz hang themselves with their own ropes.

Posted by: macneilb | August 1, 2009 10:56 PM | Report abuse

This whole issue about whether Obama is eligible or not is really about his ability to be transparent and freedom of speech. I find it amazing that this is going on - withholding documents. I am a democrat and I do believe in honesty and hope that Obama one day can present his documents, not just his birth certificate but all the documents that show he is a natural born citizen of the US, did not apply for foreign student aid, received selective service documents, and has nothing to hide.

I find it disturbing that there is so much name calling and disrespect in this issue. It makes me wonder who is really behind all this. It seems like a big joke that will backfire at any moment.

Watching Lou Dobbs ask "what's going on?" and then being ridiculed. Even the president of CNN Jon Klein seems afraid of something. Then Bill Maher did a whole segment making fun of folks, "birthers", that feel like they have the right to ask whether Obama is eligible or not. The same question was asked of McCain. What kind of control over folks does the media have? Or rather who is controlling the media?

I think we should be aware of what's going on and not be afraid of simply asking questions that deserve to be answered. How dare one turn this into a racist issue to try to scare people away.

I hope the legislation passes where candidates' eligibility will be validated. However, I am surprised that this is not done already. It may be too late to press this issue with Obama but this situation does not have to be repeated. I used to be such a diehard democrat but after this election I was embarrassed for our party - we need to look in the mirror at how emotional and name calling we have become over a simple matter that does not have anything to do with the person Obama, but everything to do with the office of the president.

I hope I have not offended anyone here. I think it is time for everyone to work together for positive results. There are good reasons for us to have multiple political parties so we work as a team with different ideas to come up with the best solutions. It's time to stop taking sides and evaluate all the shades of gray.

Posted by: klozano | August 2, 2009 1:01 AM | Report abuse

Klozano:

What "withholding documents"? What "shades of gray"?

Obama has produced a state-of-Hawaii-verified birth certificate. Period.

There is no scandal here, only the dishonestly derived questions (based on misinformation and fabrications) of people who dislike Obama so much they've made themselves paranoid.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 1:17 AM | Report abuse

Krisipupu, you would be very surprised but there are quite a few democrats that would like for all this to be cleared up and not left hanging month after month. You are incorrect at least about me. I like Obama and I am not paranoid. I like his personality and most of his ideologies. However, his inexperience, has led him to put his foot in his mouth the same way that Bush did sometimes. I know to err is human though. I would like to know for sure that Obama is eligible for office. This seems so basically democratic to me to validate this. I guess this is why I don't understand why Obama is engaging a legal team to continue to fight revealing his documents.

You seem so worried about this yourself that you start labeling. Try to be open minded. What does it hurt to get all these questions cleared up? What are you afraid of?

I agree that there is a lot of disinformation floating out there on the web and the "so called" news. Why not get all these issues out of the way and focus on real issues such as renewable energies, feeding the hungry, keeping states rights, education, growing better jobs and healthier businesses, healthcare, and equal rights for all.

Posted by: klozano | August 2, 2009 2:18 AM | Report abuse

"Get this cleared up"? You want to "know for sure" that Obama is eligible for office?

There's nothing to clear up. He's eligible. He provided all the documentation required to prove it. His citizenship is a settled fact.

Now, let's use your reasoning on another fabricated controversy based on paranoia. For 40 years, some folks have questioned whether the moon landing was real or a hoax perpetrated by the government.

They demand that NASA to reveal all the documents it's hiding, according to the questioners.

So, klozano, will you support them in their quest to get -- in your words -- "all this cleared up" so the question is "not left hanging"?


Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 9:52 AM | Report abuse

Krisipuu wrote:

"Get this cleared up"? You want to "know for sure" that Obama is eligible for office?

There's nothing to clear up. He's eligible. He provided all the documentation required to prove it. His citizenship is a settled fact.

My Comment:
Exactly. And we already see the next "step" in their game. If the demand for this is given into, then the next paranoid theory will be trotted out and demand be given that records be provided. (Let's see, student loan applications, selective service applications, elementary school records, non-existent documents of adoption). (As a side note, claims of the existence of a birth certificate with the name of Obama's mother's second husband... a man that she married long after he was born and who she likely did not even know when Obama was born? Wow, that take paranoid delusion to a whole new level...)

The line needs to be drawn here and now.

Posted by: dcraven925 | August 2, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Birthers
Everything on the 'internets' is not true. I would have thought you guys would have realized that after you ordered the 'male enhancement' pills and they didn't work or when you didn't get that million dollars from the Nigerian prince.

"all republicans aren't racist but if you are racist, you are likely to be republican"
Bill Maher

Posted by: priceisright | August 2, 2009 12:28 PM | Report abuse

dcraven925, true, very true.

I'm sure you've seen the latest totally fact-free claim going around -- that the health care bill will force old folks to commit suicide. To most people, this claim is ridiculous on its face, seeing as how old age doesn't magically bypass Obama and Democrats.

But to paranoid, conspiracy-minded conservatives, the provision to make Medicare pay doctor consultations on end-of-life medical care decisions is just another example of Obama's unremitting e-vil.


Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 1:16 PM | Report abuse

Krisipupu, at least you are respectful and I do understand where you are coming from. Your analogy is valid about fulfilling requests for information. My father worked for NASA during this time so I do know it was real. However, it is such an awesome feat that I can also understand where folks that may not have beeb very technologically saavy may have thought it was a hoax. I just watched Discovery channel's coverage of the full trip and it was incredible!

I know you think it may be the same but I do beg to differ. The questions surrounding Obama eligibility pertain to a legal and constitutional matter. The type of birth certificate that was presented is not evidence of being a Natural Born citizen. If he does have the long form as has been indicated, why doesn't he provide it to his distractors and an outside agency that specializes in analyzing and validating documents.

But to offer a compromise, I think most folks that are troubled by this lack of evidence would be satisfied with dropping this request if procedures for validating position requirements are established for government offices.

What do you think about this compromise? Thanks for trying.

Posted by: klozano | August 2, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Hey Sleuth,
Sleuth this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/18018714/03118509265
Now we have a Hawaii COLB and a Kenyan one.

BHO needs to show his long form to prove its authenticity.

Posted by: Voted4Hill | August 2, 2009 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Klozano:

1. I know you think it may be the same but I do beg to differ. The questions surrounding Obama eligibility pertain to a legal and constitutional matter.

So what? Fabricated controversies and paranoid delusions are all the same.

2. The type of birth certificate that was presented is not evidence of being a Natural Born citizen. If he does have the long form as has been indicated, why doesn't he provide it to his distractors and an outside agency that specializes in analyzing and validating documents.

The state of Hawaii says it doesn't retain the "long form." Do you have reason to believe they're lying? What Obama already provided is all they have.

3. ...I think most folks that are troubled by this lack of evidence would be satisfied with dropping this request if procedures for validating position requirements are established for government offices.

This "request" for "evidence" of a settled fact is based on fabrications, mischaracterizations, and politcally-motivated supposition. So why take it seriously?

4. What do you think about this compromise?

Not much, considering there is no compromise between facts and fantasies.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Voted4Hill, that's really lame.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

The Hawaiian authorities have stated recently that they did not destroy these records. I am sorry that you are not open minded. Too bad there can't be real discussion about something that many feel is important.

Interesting and sad.

Posted by: klozano | August 2, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

now my live in says I been worrying over this portant matter way to lonnng an she don't want to hear no more bout it. butt I got to get it out cause I dine figured out whast's going on bout this birth stuff. His Momma was prenat with him when we took them islands in as a state! Everybody knows the only reason we done it was too make our flag look rite so it had 50 stars. butt never mind the reasoning cause we took um in an gave them all the same rites we got just like we do four all them illeagel green carders. NOW you mite say hold on there Tex them months dont add up. Well they don't have too when u talking bout womenfolk. Every plain thinking man nos that a woman can do whatever they want witt there bodies. I no cause i had alot of womonfolk tell me just that. Tha's find with me too cause most of the time I don't want to know all there junk an even when i do I wish I didn't.
NOW u mite say I'm with you so far Tex butt I still thinking you walking an talking a little funny talk.
WELL I got moor prof that them womenfolk can do anything they darn well want with there bodies. take that sarah women. one day she's on tv looking all trim like an good nough too u no what with. then she took a loooong plane ride. next thing u no before she ever got home she done had a little un. If anybody was sirprized well I wasn't. I no it's easy to get Knocked up on a plane. i get pictures every month showing wat they do on them planes. now evetbody knows she likes to keep a bunch of lawyer folks around her an she didn't sue the plane driver for haven't a Knock down druug out landing so the little one must have been born all real like.
see i don proved that a female can carry a real bady for i day i year r 10years if they want to. SO THERE! We took all them folks in. if some of u people don't like what we got then stop taking all them new places an making americans out of them. if bush had killed more of them people over there faster & won their hearts & minds then we would already have number 51 but then that wouldve messed up our flag all over again

Posted by: JoeNTx | August 2, 2009 4:05 PM | Report abuse

klozano:
I googled to refresh my memory about the destruction of records, and you're right.

However, that doesn't matter, because the "long form" BC doesn't contain any extra information about the natural born citizenship of Obama -- or anyone else born there.

My son-in-law, for instance. Should I demand he produce his "long form" Hawaiian BC, so that my daughter, my grandson, my husband, and I will know for sure he's a real American?

As for my failing to be open-minded about the birthers and their assertion -- well, I was totally closed-minded about the claim that the moon landings were a hoax, too.

And when my aforementioned grandson claims there's a blue octopus in the sky, I totally dismiss that as well.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Anything is possible. Truth is stranger than fiction. Yes, the short form certificate should prove citizenship but not Natural Born citizenship with the additional info about one's doctor and hospital.

Well it now seems the issue will be either solved or dropped soon with one of the leading attorneys presenting Obama's Mombossa birth certificate. The problem with the Internet is that anything can be made to look authentic. That is why only analysts should declare it authentic or not. Interesting to now have competing BC's.

Posted by: klozano | August 2, 2009 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Klozano, you claim, "Yes, the short form certificate should prove citizenship but not Natural Born citizenship with the additional info about one's doctor and hospital."

Who told you that bit of malarkey?

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 2, 2009 8:05 PM | Report abuse

another blind naive reporter with the 666 stamped on her forehead.

Posted by: HawaiianEye | August 2, 2009 10:15 PM | Report abuse

Voted4Hill wrote:

Hey Sleuth,
Sleuth this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/18018714/03118509265
Now we have a Hawaii COLB and a Kenyan one.

BHO needs to show his long form to prove its authenticity.

My Comment:
Yes. From the "Republic of Kenya" -- One small problem. The Republic of Kenya didn't exist until several years after President Obama was born. In other words, the folks that faked this one didn't even do any credible research.

Posted by: dcraven925 | August 2, 2009 10:26 PM | Report abuse

Kloazano wrote:

Anything is possible. Truth is stranger than fiction. Yes, the short form certificate should prove citizenship but not Natural Born citizenship with the additional info about one's doctor and hospital.

My Comment:
What possible relevance does the name of the Doctor and Hospital bear on the nature of "Natural Born Citizenship"? Are we moving into the issue as to whether he was born by C-Section and thus not "natually born"? Maybe she had drugs and it wasn't a "natural childbirth".

Klozano wrote:
Well it now seems the issue will be either solved or dropped soon with one of the leading attorneys presenting Obama's Mombossa birth certificate.

My comment:
I hope to heck one of these nutcase attorneys presented it. Its pretty much ensures sanctions. Its clearly not a correct or accurate certificate.

Klozano wrote:
The problem with the Internet is that anything can be made to look authentic. That is why only analysts should declare it authentic or not. Interesting to now have competing BC's.

My comment:
A birth certificate issued by an Republic which did not exist for several years after the birth. Yeah, sure, analysts need to examine that. What utter nonsense. The person who presented this, if a lawyer, should be promptly disbarred.

Posted by: dcraven925 | August 2, 2009 10:32 PM | Report abuse

I went to vote and realized I knew very little about the candidates: Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The debates gave little information one needs to know about a candidate for President of the United States. Senator Hillary Clinton has been in the public’s eye due to her role as First Lady when her husband was President so we knew some of her views.

Senator Obama is known only by the reports of his resume. He is a gifted Orator, and has wooed the young generation. He spoke of his working his way through College. For whom did he work, and how was he able to pay the tuition at Harvard? How did he get the job? This appeals to the college generation, since they face the same task.

He worked as a Community Organizer. Why hasn’t the information been publicized regarding which Organization he was affiliated? What Community organization did he work for, and what population
While at Harvard was he a member of a Fraternity. Is he an Elitest, who will do what he thinks is good for the underprivileged without listening to their needs and complaints?

He states he is a devout Christian, but only under pressure did he divorce himself from his Pastor, who spouts Anti-American concepts, and is close to Farrakhan, a Black Power Leader.

How was he able to raise so much money for his campaign through the Internet. He may be the miracle worker he has been depicted, but I have to know more details. Is there any way to trace from whom the funds came?

Why have no articles he wrote in undergraduate or graduate classes been made available to enable us to know some of his beliefs? When I sought jobs as a Psychologist I had to submit papers I had written as well as case reports so that my competence could be evaluated.

As one lives longer than most,87 years, you experience events which make one reluctant to just accept what is published and stated without questioning the data. In a democracy we need to know the background of those running for any public office. A list of elected officials, who did not meet the standards for the office they pursued was possible, since the average voter knows little of the candidates background and his beliefs. Power corrupts, and we need to elect officials based on information freely given by candidates, or we have doubts.






Posted by: jsrson | August 3, 2009 10:02 AM | Report abuse

My grand Dad had a saying that fits here in spades!"You can always tell a jack ass,but you can't tell him very much!"

Posted by: asclepious2 | August 3, 2009 10:21 AM | Report abuse

To all, taking comment by steveb 777 seriously: he´s pulling your leg ! Great satire ! Of course, any demand to see this misterious birth certificate would have to be satire, right ? If not, all those birthers should be sent an asylum !

Posted by: wernerthomasi | August 3, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

To steveb777: Obviously you and birthers are not about seeking the truth. You didn't even read the article. If you are about the truth, where's the proof that President Obama was born elsewhere? Provide that and you might have a point. We could all stand together and say, we want the truth. Otherwise, this appears as some deep racists feelings. Whites, who thought black skin people were property and not people, had the very thinking you do. They're nothing until you decide they're something. Shameful and Sad . You must lead a very unhappy life, however, give the statements you made, you're blaming everyone but the right person. YOURSELF

Posted by: vikkids | August 3, 2009 10:31 AM | Report abuse

Birthers belong to several categories. Some are conspiracy-oriented nuts. Others are involved in a long-term attempt to undermine Obama's legitimacy. This is a strategy sometimes denoted as as "swiftboating" and is based on the principle formulated by Jospeh Goebbels: If you repeat the same lie often enough people will start believing in it. The Communists were frequent users of this strategy, which explains the presence of a an emigree from the USSR among the most prominent of the birthers.
This form of swiftboating also plays on deep-seated feeling present among a number of people, including some of the most prominent conservatives, namely that Obama should not be a President of the United States simply because he is black. Expressing doubts about his birth place enables these people to conceal their racism.

Posted by: Zeflik | August 3, 2009 10:57 AM | Report abuse

Stevie, what you should be demanding is a greater dose of lithium in your regimen. He's black and you are a loser - get over it...

Posted by: LABC | August 3, 2009 11:02 AM | Report abuse

You are so right steveb777. Just like those who think the earth is round...I say go ahead and prove it. And China doesn't exist either, I've never seen it and I don't believe its really there. Can anyone prove to me that China exists???????

Posted by: beamhillrd | August 3, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

Interesting.

I have a short-form certification of live birth, issued by the Rock Island County, IL that was sufficient to get a passport. But according to soem of these posts, I'm not a citizen, even though I've lived here all my life.

Oh - BTW, my grandfather was in this country illegally from Sweden. Does that make me an illegal immigrant also?

In fact, my short form is so similar in design to Obama's that I had to take a second look at it to see that it wasn't issued by the State of Illinois.

Lighten up people - you're not going to win this arguement no matter how hard you try.

Posted by: markorjj | August 3, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

How much do we know about Orly Taitz? She was born in the Soviet Union.

Why won't she release her records?

There are serious questions about her Communist indoctrination and possible ties to the Russian mob.

No telling what mayhem she was sent here to stir up.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 12:31 PM | Report abuse

Birthers don't exist. The liberal media invented them to make the administration's opponents look like delusional morons.

Posted by: DupontJay | July 31, 2009 4:45 PM | Report abuse

If Birthers don't exist then where did steveb777 come from? Certainly not from any accredited High School.

Posted by: woops81 | August 3, 2009 12:37 PM | Report abuse

I have a "certification of live birth" from New York City. No, I was not born in Kenya!

Posted by: tonyholst | August 3, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse


I used to argue with birthers on this website. Then I realized that even if Obama himself came to their door and showed them his "long form" birth certificate, they would claim it was a fake. So what would be the point?

Now I realize that they have made themselves look so ridiculous, and all Obama-haters by association, that it actually helps Obama. Thanks, birthers! Keep it up, and be sure to get as many GOP congressmen as possible to sign on to your idiotic mantra.

Posted by: mikeinmidland | August 3, 2009 12:57 PM | Report abuse

The saddest part of steveb's post is that it was the first one on this string, and thus will remain prominent to embarass all reasonable Republicans who read these comments.

Posted by: Iconoblaster | August 3, 2009 1:01 PM | Report abuse

From the World Net Daily, Aug 2,2009. "On Aug 1, 2009, CA attorney, Orly Taitz has filed a new lawsuit, US District Court, CAl, He has seen a Certified Kenyan Birth Certificate for Barak Hussain Obama born at Coast General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya, dated August 4, 1961, and also carries a signature. This certificate was registered on Aug 5, 1961." The specific details of the lawsuit are available at WND online.

Posted by: ccn1580 | August 3, 2009 1:17 PM | Report abuse

The people who started this false rumour originally did so in a swift boating effort to fool the public out of voting for Obama and, instead, voting for their candidate. They are very shrewd, slick, and experts at building convuluted lies.
It is time that there is an investigation into those who started this nonsense and the people who continue it. It is time we knew who they were/are working for and how much money they've been paid to do this and what their real purpose it.
It is getting to the point that it endangers our national security by instilling citizens to overthrow a Democratic election and to "take their country back" overthrow of the U.S. government. Is there a more nefarious reason than just an election that causes these people to instigate this unrest and hatred?
Every State has different rules for birth certificates but I assure you, no one gets a U.S. passport unless they have proved they are a U.S. citizen. Obama has a U.S. passport as he submitted his birth certificate to get one. A certificate of live birth is a birth certificate and you don't get one unless you are born in the U.S. My birth certificate is identical to Obamas. My parents and their grandparents were American citizens. Does this mean that because my birth certificate reads "certificate of live birth" that I'm not a citizen? What about all the other Hawaiians born at that time who have the exact same certificate of birth? Are they not citizens?
I have come to the conclusion that these people will never accept the truth that our President was born in Hawaii and yes his birth certificate lists Hawaii as his place of birth. These people who started this will continue to come out with even more ridiculous lies. One of the birthers was going on about the seconds between the babies born on that day as if that proved anything. This is psycho talk and that's all it is. Its time there was an investigation into this nonsense before it escalates into a danger to our Democracy.

Posted by: jsmitchell619 | August 3, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

.
Why hasn't the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, or 60 Minutes; investigated why there is no HOSPITAL RECORDS of baby-PRESIDENT OBAMA or his mother's stay in their hospital...Also no OB-Delivery Room charges at the hospital that issued the "birth certificate".

As to the question of "what does it matter?????",,,,,,,,the U.S.A. has no precedents. The U.S. Constitution is clear on the question of who is qualified to serve as President. But, not on what to do if a sitting President is determined to be ineligible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Havoc,.......might make the War of the Roses look like a little league baseball game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

Posted by: JAMadison4 | August 3, 2009 1:52 PM | Report abuse

Once upon a time, many states had birth certificates that included a great deal of information, not only the name given to an infant, but the time, place, doctor, birth weight and length, hospital, parents names and ages at birth, etc. I once had a certificate like that, as did my children. When my children both lost their certificates that I had given them when they became adults, we requested copies from our state of birth. We recieved certificates much like the one the Obama campaign had scanned in and posted on line. When questioned, the courthouse told me they no longer made the other type available. What we got was sufficent to prove our U.S. birth to all state and federal entities that may require it. Period. You cannot hold the president responsible for something that was issued when he was an infant and what you get now, from most states, is the type he has posted. His parents and grandparents are all dead. They would have been the ones that may have had in their possession something other than the one he posted.

Whatever a parent may do concerning citizenship, once a child reaches legal age, they would have had to endorse anything the parent did to have effect U.S. citizenship. A parent cannot permanently revoke a child's US citizenship. Our president was living and going to school in the US from the time he was 10 years old. He is a citizen of the United States and was no doubt born in our 50th state. So birthers, if your parents dropped on your heads when you were infants, was it your fault? Is it the presidents fault that he may not have something in his possession that was given to his parents 47 years ago? When he was an infant? You cannot keep asking for something that isn't available. Check on it, and you will probably find that many states have changed what they give out.

And by the way, many hospitals give out certificates of birth that are not legal documents for proving your citizenship for passport, social security, drivers license or the many other things when you must prove your birth in this country.

Posted by: alaskan2 | August 3, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

Emmett Till did nothing but whistle at a white woman. "He loved pranks, he loved fun, he loved jokes... in Mississippi, people didn't think the same jokes were funny." Carolyn Bryant later asserted that Till had grabbed her at the waist and asked her for a date.
---------------------------------
White racism started with white males and his 'insecurities' and his fear of white women being sexually active with black men and as a result start producing black/white babies.

That battle has long been lost. President Barack Obama is a product of that fear.

Just as the white racist who gouged out Emmett Till's eye. You are gouging out you're own eyes, by calling everyone else a racist when that's impossible.

Believe it or not, there is only one group racist here in the United States, U.S. history books prove's it.

Posted by: opp88 | August 3, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

But thats exactly what the "birthers" are, DELUSIONAL MORONS.

This goes back to what has been said many times before since President Obama's inauguration: The republicans just can't stand the idea of there being a black man, a black woman, and little black children in the White House. It hurts them so much. Not to mention the embarrassing loss the republicans suffered last November. Not to mention John McCain's "gimmick" of choosing Sarah Palin as his VP choice, which of course backfired. The republicans are bent on destroying the Obama presidency and administration, using their patented swiftboat methods. Character assasination, slander, and lies.

Posted by: alandsuzie1 | August 3, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

JAMadison4 wrote:
Why hasn't the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, or 60 Minutes; investigated why there is no HOSPITAL RECORDS of baby-PRESIDENT OBAMA or his mother's stay in their hospital...Also no OB-Delivery Room charges at the hospital that issued the "birth certificate".
As to the question of "what does it matter...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hilarious.

No one but a birther would think newborn Obama's hospital records or delivery room charges had any relevance whatsoever to his eligibility to be president.

While they're at it, maybe could also demand the names and addresses of the nurses who attended his mother and the cleaning crew who kept her room sanitary.

Or hey -- the name of the florist who delivered flowers.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Mary Ann:

You obama defenders who are not the least bit interested in requiring him to produce a birth certificate were the same ones who were obsessed with digging up "documents" to "prove" Bush missed a National Guard meeting or two 30 years ago.

A great example of politically driven, biased journalism, Mary Ann

And PLEASE WASH YOU HAIR!!!!!!!!

Posted by: kfstewart | August 3, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Very nice but slanted article Ms Akers.

Why don't they give the information freely that is asked for? What is the Obamanation hiding for all the transparancy he campaigned on?

According to published reports, Barack Obama's legal team has been paid over one million dollars, so far, to STOP anyone from seeing ANY of his actual identification documents, or many other documents:
• Actual long-form birth certificate (NOT an easily-forged electronic copy of a short-form document that is not even officially accepted in Hawaii)
• Passport files
• University of Chicago Law School scholarly articles
• Harvard Law Review articles
• Harvard Law School records
• Columbia University records
• Columbia University senior thesis, "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament"
• Occidental College records, including financial aid that he may have received
• Punahou School records, where Mr. Obama attended from the fifth grade until he finished high school
• Noelani Elementary School records, where Barack Obama attended kindergarten (according to the Hawaii Department of Education, students must submit a birth certificate to register -- but parents may bring a passport or student visa if the child is from a foreign country)
• Complete files and schedules of his years as an Illinois state senator from 1997 to 2004
• Obama's client list from during his time in private practice with the Chicago law firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Gallard
• Illinois State Bar Association records
• Baptism records
• Obama/Dunham marriage license
• Obama/Dunham divorce documents
• Soetoro/Dunham marriage license
• Soetero/Dunham Adoption records
By the way, the issue of the Occidental College records is especially pertinent. The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) served officials at Occidental College with a subpoena to produce records concerning Barack Obama's attendance there during the 1980's, because those records could document whether he was attending as a foreign national. You see, Mr. Obama attended the school on a scholarship -- and there are questions as to whether the financial aid he received was reserved for foreign students. The Obama attorneys have bent over backward to block us. He doesn't want anyone to see those records. He's STILL trying to hide them; those financial records STILL have not been released.

Posted by: longbow65 | August 3, 2009 7:17 PM | Report abuse

I was going to comment that birthers are just upset that slavery was abolished but then I read:

I know for a fact that the Hawaii "Certification of Live Birth" is fake, because Hawaii does not exist.

"Scientists" point out "Hawaii" on their "Globes", but the indisputable fact is that Hawaii is off of the edge of Earth's disk, and if Hawaii was where they said it was, it would be on the bottom of the disk of the Earth, and everything there would fall off.

If you don't agree with me, you are stupid and uninformed. I know it's true because I read it on the internets.

Some people claim to have been to "Hawaii", but they have been fooled by the government. They were taken in planes to Norton Air Force Base and placed in virtual reality simulators.

Posted by: CessnaDriver | July 31, 2009 5:25 PM

I can't compete with that. Hail CessnaDriver! And I'll try to lighten up.

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 3, 2009 7:32 PM | Report abuse

Longbow65 wrote:
"According to published reports, Barack Obama's legal team has been paid over one million dollars, so far, to STOP anyone from seeing ANY of his actual identification documents, or many other documents..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Published where? Links, please.


Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

While the blind followers follow, the Obama legal team is working in the wings to subvert the Constitution to allow foreign born individuals to be able to serve as president. For the liberal followers and those that hope to profit from his actions the law is really not important and every day the truth is not revealed is another day of power to the Obamanation. Will it be legal for this law to be post election? If any treachery or tampering with records was used to allow Barry to serve one day as president, it should be deemed an act of treason and all involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law possible with absolutely no leniency or pity shown.

If his motives are honorable, there should be no problems with the records becoming public. His acts of secrecy have alienated him from a vast majority of moderates that feel he is having his actual records manipulated and revised to be scrutinized. Any laws passed and signed by him would be null and void.

Proof and documentation that he is who he says he is will not be asking too much from a president.

Posted by: longbow65 | August 3, 2009 7:43 PM | Report abuse

Longbow65 wrote:
"According to published reports, Barack Obama's legal team has been paid over one million dollars, so far, to STOP anyone from seeing ANY of his actual identification documents, or many other documents..."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Published where? Links, please.
Posted by: Krisipuu
===============================

Tell me that it would really make any difference to the way you think if I do, and I will give you the links you want.

The truth is you are blind and facts will not open your eyes. Let me know please?

Posted by: longbow65 | August 3, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Longboiw says, "Tell me that it would really make any difference to the way you think if I do, and I will give you the links you want. The truth is you are blind and facts will not open your eyes. Let me know please?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, I'd like to see the quality of your publisghed evidence. Bithers usually submit stuff that is fabricated outright, or mischaracterizations of factual information.

On my side, however, I can point to Obama's Hawaii-verified birth certificate. It's as real as that of my son-in-law, who was born in Hawaii in 1969.


Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 8:04 PM | Report abuse

Longboiw says, "Tell me that it would really make any difference to the way you think if I do, and I will give you the links you want. The truth is you are blind and facts will not open your eyes. Let me know please?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, I'd like to see the quality of your published evidence. Birthers usually submit stuff that is solely based on speculation and historical and factual errors.

On my side, however, I can point to Obama's Hawaii-verified birth certificate. It's the real thing and proves he was born in Honolulu, just like my son-in-law.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 8:06 PM | Report abuse

Longbow says, "Proof and documentation that he is who he says he is will not be asking too much from a president."

And it wouldn't be too much to ask Orly Taitz to show all her records.

After all, she's trying to bring down a president, and for all we know she's actually a shill for the Russian mob or the Communists.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 3, 2009 8:11 PM | Report abuse

The Shrub (all praise Molly Ivins) doesn't have a law degree.

I don't have any interest in seeing Sarah Palin's high school diploma; I saw her scary monster toes on the cove of TIME and put in in the recycle bin immediately.

This is boring. Can we get back to making fun of Jeff Sessions, who can't tell us what "race" Sonia Sotomayor is , but knows he's against it.

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 3, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: longbow65 | August 3, 2009 8:43 PM | Report abuse

"I disagree with the author's opinion that release of the original would not solve the issue. There is no plausible reason for him not to release it. Posted by: alstl "

Well, try this out for a reason: the birth certificate doesn't belong to HIM, it belongs to the State of Hawaii, and always will. The "birth certificate" is the document by which a Hospital or other authorized agency reports a live birth to the local Recorder's office, to be entered in the official records. In the sixties this still meant manually writing the information in an Official Record. The certificate was then filed in an official file and retained, theoretically forever, or until the Court House burns and the record burns with it. (Ask anyone trying to trace their lineage to anyone born in the Virginia Military District. the Court house in Washington Court House went up in flames in the late sixties or early seventies and if you want to prove your descent from Virginian Officers in the Revolution, hope your ancestors were born before they moved to Ohio.)

Hawaii owns the document, has made it available for inspection, and has rightfully returned it to the State's records. It was willing to issue a raised seal Certification of Live Birth in Obama's name. Ohio's CoLB begins, I certify that there is on record..." My guess is Hawaii's begins the same way. The raised seal is that of a notary, who would be perjuring himself were he to certify falsely to that existence.

Of course, reasonable people would know this, and unreasonable people care not for reason.

Barack Obama isn't their ideal of a President, and by continuing their farce they openly state their unwillingness to accept the choice of the majority of Amreicans. Then again there are the Tax resistors who keep insisting that the Income tax is illegal. When they act on those claims and don't pay income tax, they go to jail. Should birthers act on their claims and break the law in the name of their particular fantasy, they get to go to jail too. So when the first birther gets arrested for breaking a law signed by President Obama, and in his trial claims that the law isn't real because it wasn't signed by a legitimate President, he will get the same answer: "Your claim is invalid, you committed the crime, and you go to jail."

I do predict that that will happen more than once.

Posted by: ceflynline | August 3, 2009 9:22 PM | Report abuse

I'd like to know how Mary Ann Ackers knows that the citizen from Kenya was really born in the USA. In her lofty 4th Estate position, has she seen some proof that isn't available to the average citizen?

Posted by: gerrypooh | August 4, 2009 10:38 AM | Report abuse

My daughter was born in Wyoming in 1974, and all we got for her was a certificate of live birth -- maybe she's not a 'natural-born citizen either. But of course both her father and I were born in the US so even if she was born on Mars she would be a citizen because I am!

I can't believe how many obsessive-compulsive anal retentives there are in this nation, and it appears they are multiplying like bunnies (or maybe roaches would be a better comparison in this case).

Posted by: wiccanwolfess | August 4, 2009 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Longbow, I read your link, and I'll ask again -- where are all these "published reports" that Obama is paying millions of dollars in legal fees?

And by reports, I don't mean evidence-free claims and assertions.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 4, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

steveb777, I'm going to need actual proof that you are the ignoramus you claim to be.
The 'evidence' you have provided is clearly a forgery. WHY WON'T YOU PROVIDE US WITH THE LONG-FORM EVIDENCE OF YOUR IGNORANCE?? WHY? WHY? WHY????

you do not exist. go away.

Posted by: leeb831 | August 4, 2009 11:45 AM | Report abuse

Me thinks you all protest too much.

Posted by: deduke | August 4, 2009 11:52 AM | Report abuse

Some are ignorant and morons who write 'for' newspapers -- and some who write 'in' newspapers. Just choose which booth you want to stand in.

Jack

Posted by: JackButtram1 | August 4, 2009 12:15 PM | Report abuse

Longbow 65...tell the truth.
Are you really Rush Limbaugh or Hannity in disguise?
Other than some self serving crusade with no hope of resolution, why do you bother? I would still not prefer president Palin no matter how hard you clowns rant.
Get a life!!! Make your grandkids proud someday so they can claim you weren’t stupid.

Posted by: sd-mouth | August 4, 2009 12:25 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are doing the nation a favor. The real issue is not where Obama was born. It has to do with character assassination. The copy of the Kenyan birth certificate doesn't even have the correct name of that country when it was issued. It has the name of the country after it was changed 8 years later.

The real issue is the hate groups attack on med insurance reform . Using the only thing they have left - Hooliganism- to prevent our Representatives from conducting civil town meetings.

But these republican led hate groups do us a service by exposing the utter spoiled brat mentality of some republicans. And in the process, they are destroying the once Grand Old Party.

The party of Lincoln, who kept the nation together and ended the greatest crime - slavery.

But that party had it moral values destroyed by George Bush’s reign. His war based on lies has cost the lives of 5000 of our brave soldiers, while letting the architect of 9/11 go free in Afghanistan.

His "winner take all" licensing of always smoldering greed, one of the 7 deadly sins per the Bible, licensed financial scams to on Wall Street. In what Fortune mag, a business publicantion, exposed as a $55 TRLLION issuance of worthless financial instruments. But wall street made Billions in profits, at the cost of a near collapse of the world economy. A potential collapse like in 1929. Which gave hitler the lever to take a terrified and distraught people down the path to 50 million deaths and the Holocaust.

And beneath it all in the republican party lies their southern white so-called Christian base. The real anti-Christs. Those who make a mockery of Jesus life and his Gospel which was a message of social justice for all.

Because these people, fanning the still smoldering ashes of the rotten corpse of slavery and segregation, can’t accept that a Black man was elected President

But the cost of the destruction of this party will be violence and who knows how many innocents will die in the name of Greed and racism. As the wounded tiger of the Republican party, ever more enraged and dangerous, viciously takes others to its death with it.

God Bless America. And save us from this monstrous corruption. Whose hatred reminds me of hitler’s mobs. And we all know where that ended up.

Republicans Who also fan the flames of extremist nationalism. The same mentality which turned a decorated "soldier's soldier" into a mass murderer. Timothy McVeigh.

Posted by: SJames6621 | August 4, 2009 12:26 PM | Report abuse

Posters on here are mostly dumb Americans who have no idea what the truth is and totally ignore Obama's grandmother who says she was present at his birth at the Coast Provincial General Hospital in Mombassa, Kenya. Her videos are on youtube.com. Obama's mother triggered labor pains by swimming in the ocean in Mombassa after mother, father and grandmother of Barack left a very hot Muslim festival in Mombassa 48 years ago today. On August 8 his mother flew to Honolulu and on August 12 completed the form for the certificate of live birth which lists no hospital or doctor in attendance. Obama has pulled a fast one on dumb Americans who are very easy to fool.

Posted by: mascmen7 | August 4, 2009 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Birthers are the best thing to happen to the republican party since George Bush & Dick Cheney et al, and I hope they stick around and make themselves heard at every republican event possible; in fact, I hope every republican lawmaker or other office holder ends up having to have one at their elbow every time they speak anywhere, so that the rest of americans, the ones who defeated the republicans so soundly and sanely this last presidential election, can see how the Birthers - and the republican party - are dedicated to defending us against all those who would "sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."
Hahahahahaha!

Posted by: seankirk | August 4, 2009 1:13 PM | Report abuse

mascmen7 wrote: Obama's mother triggered labor pains by swimming in the ocean in Mombassa after mother, father and grandmother of Barack left a very hot Muslim festival in Mombassa 48 years ago today. On August 8 his mother flew to Honolulu and on August 12 completed the form for the certificate of live birth which lists no hospital or doctor in attendance. Obama has pulled a fast one on dumb Americans who are very easy to fool. Obama has pulled a fast one on dumb Americans who are very easy to fool.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good lord. That's the most bizarre birther claim I've read all month.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 4, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

Why not just product the document, that's all.

Posted by: gerry11 | August 4, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

Why not just product the document, that's all. Posted by: gerry11
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

He already has.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 4, 2009 2:05 PM | Report abuse

It is amazing to read so much nonsense lies hot air and smut trash talk about verification of our leader president Obama
If he is who he says then produce the documents as did John McCain..He hides and sealed his records for what reason?????
My records are all open and public record so is everyone in USA except Mr Obama. Now that says why would someone in such an important position hide documents. HE HAS LIED PRE ELECTION AND POST ELECTION he distorts the truth and has no integrity or lacks truth in his word. So birthers airheads are true american patriots that only want the truth the rest of you left wing zealots dance and spin and blow smoke and hot air...thats it...all hot air
US Army retired hard

Posted by: USArmyretiredhard | August 4, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

As a gullible person, this birth certificate is one thing that I can not swallow. At the same time Obama refused to offer a birth certificate that would be unquestionable during the campaign, he also refused to show any of his Harvard papers.Why not? Harvard isn't holding them captive as the state of Hawaii is doing. Is there something that we should not see?
Could it be that when entering Harvard, Obama, not realizing he would run for the Presidency one day, signed in as a Kenyan and not an American?
There is a very good way for this argument to be solved for once & for all! Hawaii will not release a copy of the full birth certificate it claims to possess to a 3rd party, us. They will, they say, give one only to a 2nd party, to wit, one Barack Obama. So, let him ask for it and then show it to us with an "I told you so!". This is one battle I would like to lose....

Posted by: afed27 | August 4, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

As a gullible person, this birth certificate is one thing that I can not swallow.
Posted by: afed27
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It takes a mighty big person to admit he/she is gullible. Either that, or you need a dictionary fast.

By the way, I love your statement, "This is one battle I would like to lose..."

Oh, please. Who do you think you're fooling?

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 4, 2009 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Is it really possible for there to be that many morons who will unite to create a controversy about the country of birth of their President? Can you not believe that this was verified, beyond a shadow of doubt, prior to election day? There have been doubters since President Obama was nominated and I have no doubt, whatsoever, that there were Republicans who paid richly in an attempt to prove the doubters correct. BUT FAILED.

Posted by: mab123vancouver | August 4, 2009 6:46 PM | Report abuse

If "birthers" froth at the mouth this much after Obama wins the presidency once, what will they do when he wins again?

Posted by: Cyclopsina | August 5, 2009 12:57 AM | Report abuse

Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

At least the alien abductees claim to have been present at their probings and, in that case, at least are witnesses, which makes them marginally more credible then the . . . I won't even use that stupid expression any more.

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 5, 2009 10:20 AM | Report abuse

If "birthers" froth at the mouth this much after Obama wins the presidency once, what will they do when he wins again? Posted by: Cyclopsina
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They'll simply think up ever more hilariously deranged "questions" about Obama.

Like, "when did Obama stop beating Michelle?"; "who performed Malia and Sasha's female circumcisions?"; "how many kittens does Obama eat for breakfast?"; and "where in the White House does he meet with his space-alien lizard overlords when they fly in from the M82 Galaxy?"

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 5, 2009 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Republicons continue to try to have it both ways. Unfortunately for them the public is smarter than their fringe. When will some adults start to speak up in that party? If they don't soon, they will be the coming again of the Bull Moose Party and then disappear. No self respecting person can say they are proud of the republican party. Shame on their refusal to participate in governing .

Posted by: tplocki | August 5, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

"Party of 50s bigotry, your table is..."

I'm even older than Barack and I can't get my original "hospital" birth certificate. Believe me, I've tried. Just a few days ago, I received my niece's "official certified" birth certificate, from Austin...same situation and certificate type as mine, from 50+ years ago. And I assure you, it's the "official" record of her birth, as mine is. People, it's racism. Don't you recognize the hate? Think back to the 1950s and 60s: The firehoses, the attack dogs, the screaming ugliness and violence: "Birthers ta-day, birthers ta-marra, and birthers fo-evah!" Can you hear me now? The corrupted, "Republic-In-The-Can Party" has been oh, so busy, trying to turn their, so-called,"culture war," into a race war. They have no shame and no REAL patriotism, or they wouldn't be so willing to fan the flames of racism, and risk our republic on race warfare. They are inheritors, if you will, of the old southern legacy of hate. And those who deliberately whip racists into a frenzy, which will soon turn violent, are traitors, no less than spies and domestic terrorists. Oh, wait, they ARE domestic terrorists. And cowards, particularly, those "birthers" in Congress. rainjustice.com

Posted by: rainjustice | August 5, 2009 4:36 PM | Report abuse

@Krisipuu: I hope you are right and that's all that happens. I sometimes go to Free Republic and read the birthers' ravings. At first it was funny and entertaining. But some of them call for more forceful means of getting their way. And these people are nuts. Real facts don't get in the way of their crazy views. I think there is a reason to worry about some of them going off the deep end.

Posted by: Cyclopsina | August 5, 2009 5:10 PM | Report abuse

I think there is a reason to worry about some of them going off the deep end.
Posted by: Cyclopsina

###########################################

I think if there were that many violent rightwing nuts out there, we would be seeing dozens of Von Brunns by now, six months into the Obama administration.

But we aren't. Thank goodness.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 5, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

I find all of this fantastic like a fairytale gone amuk. I used to be a democrat but am ashamed at how we are acting. Obama showed a Hawaiian birth certificate on the web for evidence. Evidence you can believe in. As most folks know anything can be altered now a days.

McCain was vetted and Obama should have been too but he refuses to go through the hoops and must enjoy all the chaos he is causing. It may just be a red herring for all we know.

I wish people would allow free speech about this issue instead of calling names and getting all self righteous. It is a simple request to present the long form BC.

The folks that appear upset are the ones defending his nonaction. Calling people racist, wingnuts, birthers, and many other not so nice names. I find this very petty and has turned into a sport of sorts - badmouth the birthers.

I thought we lived in a free country but it now appears that their is suppression of questioning and proliferation of disinformation - very communistic like. Castro's first step was to take over the media. I am not saying Obama is doing that but we are doing it to ourselves by not respecting freedom of speech and the right to vet anyone in our highest office.

Obama seems like a nice person and I agree with most of his ideas but he needs to resolve this issue so he and the country can concentrate on other issues. If it is true, that his ambition is greater than his credentials then we will need to deal with it. If he is legit, then this goes to bed and folks will have to find something else for entertainment.

Posted by: klozano | August 6, 2009 12:29 AM | Report abuse

i have read in several places that obama has spent over $950,000 to PREVENT the release of the long form birth certificate (and school records), especially puzzling in an administration pledged toward transparency...

i mean, he's not just refusing to release it as unnecessary, he's actively spending time and effort (and money) to keep it locked up...

this is the most difficult to explain...and not mentioned by the author

Posted by: jatcagirl | August 6, 2009 10:15 AM | Report abuse

Very well said Mary Ann. I support and defend your excellent proof and verification to the truth that haters, racists and other losers of the republican stupidity base will never accept. They can't, it would be too terrible that President Obama is the rightful president for years to come. Brings a smile to my face.

Posted by: equalon | August 6, 2009 11:34 AM | Report abuse

WHOSE YOUR DADDY?
THAT QUESTION IS A MAJOR ONE. WHEN I WAS WORKING AS A PUBLIC HEALTH NURSE, I HAD TO ASK MOTHERS ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE BABY'S FATHER. VERY OFTEN, THE FATHER WAS NEITHER THE HUSBAND NOR THE BOYFRIEND.
THE FATHER IS WHOMEVER THE MOTHER SAYS HE IS. ALL OF THIS OF COURSE WAS BEFORE DNA TESTING.
BLACKS HAVE ALWAYS KNOWN WHO WAS WHO IN THE WHITE HOUSEHOLD. THERE WAS A LOT OF LOVING UNDER THE SHEETS BY DAY AND A LOT OF HATING UNDER THE SHEETS BY NIGHT AND THEY WERE ONE AND THE SAME. OUR QUADRONES WERE CALLED "PINKY" AND PASSED FOR WHITE, MARRIED WHITE MEN OR WOMEN AND HAD BABIES WHO TODAY WILL SHOW AFRICAN DNA.

WE USED TO SAY THE GUYS WHO HAD THE MOST HATRED, HAD THE MOST BLACK BLOOD. THAT IS WHY THEY WERE SO ANGRY. THAT ANGER WAS PASSED DOWN SO SOME DID NOT REALLY KNOW HOW BLACK THEY WERE.

WE LAUGHED THAT WHEN WHITE WASHINGTON SOCIETY WANTED TO DISCRIMINATE BY RACE, THEY HAD TO ABANDONED THAT MEANS OF DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE MOST OF THE WASHINGTON, ORIGINAL CITIZENS IN THE UPPER CLASS, HAD BLACK BLOOD.

IF RUMORS ARE CORRECT, BARAK OBAMA IS NOT OUR FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT BY MIXED RACE.
WE KNOW OF THOMAS JEFFERSON AND WE SUSPECT BILL CLINTON.

SOUTHERN GENTLEMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE MIXED THAN NORTHERN BECAUSE OF THE ACCEPTANCE OF WHITES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF BLACK WOMEN. THE CHILDREN OF THESE WOMEN FREQUENTLY PASSED FOR WHITE.

WHEN THE SOCIETY BEGAN TO ACCEPT ITALIANS AND GREEKS, MANY OF THE DARKER QUADROONS WERE ABLE TO PASS. THESE PEOPLE PASSED IN ORDER TO HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES.

HISPANICS ARE NOW DOING THE SAME THING.
OPPORTUNITIES ARE STILL BASED ON COLOR. A WHITE LOOKING HISPANIC AND A WHITE LOOKING BLACK HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF EMPLOYMENT AND FACE FEWER RACIAL ISSUES THAN THOSE WHO ARE DARKER.

Posted by: sm98yth | August 6, 2009 12:10 PM | Report abuse

If he is legit, then this goes to bed and folks will have to find something else for entertainment. Posted by: klozano
########################################


Spoken like a proper little concern troll. Jeez, your disingenuousness isn't even subtle.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 1:25 PM | Report abuse

My whole issue with the birther thing is this, anybody in their right mind knows that there is no way that you would go to Kenya to have a baby. The whole point especially in the 1960's would be to have a baby born in America. Who the hell is running back to their homeland to have their baby born there. These folks are talking like the best medical care etc, was in kenya. stupid

Posted by: sandy539 | August 6, 2009 1:28 PM | Report abuse

i have read in several places that obama has spent over $950,000 to PREVENT the release of the long form birth certificate...Posted by: jatcagirl

###########################################

And I'll bet you've read this totally fabricated claim on birther websites or on birther-infested message boards, haven't you?

Are you really that gullible?

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 1:30 PM | Report abuse

My whole issue with the birther thing is this, anybody in their right mind knows that there is no way that you would go to Kenya to have a baby. Posted by: sandy539
########################################

Not to mention, no airlines, international or domestic, allowed 9-months pregnant women on the plane in 1961. And they still don't.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 1:36 PM | Report abuse

Birthers? I don’t know if this is like the gay slang breeders‘. But I am sure it has similar style. Gee just look at the freshly printed birth certificate. And ignore the mounting of evidence against it. Including a federal judge ruling. The liberal democrats clam to be the champions of civil rights, but the fact is that we would not have needed civil rights law if it were not for the liberal democrats. They still want to deny blacks the right to own guns; Al Franklin just quoted a Supreme Court decision made to deny blacks the right to own guns. But these are just facts, nothing an obedient liberal democrat would think about.

Ps don’t forger to send a report to the Hitler in the white house so he can send his goon squad after me, if you don’t you might be questioned on your loyalty.

Posted by: workingclassslave | August 6, 2009 2:27 PM | Report abuse

you will find this obvious political tactic decreasing when karl rove and his kind are put behind bars.

Posted by: gsteinum | August 6, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

klozano writes:I thought we lived in a free country but it now appears that their is suppression of questioning and proliferation of disinformation - very communistic like. Castro's first step was to take over the media. I am not saying Obama is doing that but we are doing it to ourselves by not respecting freedom of speech and the right to vet anyone in our highest office.
_______________________
1. Do you mean "there"? What suppression? You were allowed to post here and anywhere else you wanted. I assume you weren't arrested or visited in the middle of the night by the authorities for stating your opinion? Don't others have the same freedom of speech to say their opinion if they think something you say is bogus?
2. Almost 70 million people voted for Obama. He was vetted. The election is over. Obama is eligible to be President, as he was born in the USA. He has shown his birth certificate. Hawaiian officials verify it. Birthers want to ignore the facts, and make up stuff. People who don't like Obama choose to believe these rumors against reason and proof.

Posted by: Cyclopsina | August 6, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

And ignore the mounting of evidence against it. Including a federal judge ruling. Posted by: workingclassslave

######################################


What "federal judge ruling"?

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

If birthers were as energetic advocating healthcare reform and other important issues our country is trying to find solutions for, I would have more respect for their cause and their intelligence. It's the most ludicrous and irrational movement I've seen in my lifetime. I wish they would have been this vigilant trying to discover G.W. Bush's win in 2000. As illegitimate as that seemed, there was very little protest about it.

Posted by: livingfornum1 | August 6, 2009 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Cyclopsina posted:
What suppression? 70 million voted . . . so he is vetted . . .

When Lou Dobbs just tried to cover the story that has kept many blogs alive (such as this one) and has a third of the nation or more wanting the vetting process, and then receives such an outcry of hate, this is what I call suppression.

Voting is not vetting. At least not according to the constitution. Do you want to change the constitution like the President of Honduras tried? There are reasons our forefathers framed these qualifications. If it is time to change them, then it needs to be done. But, I don't think you have a sound arguement that you can change it without going through the process. Obama should show his long form BC and quit spending any more time or money on not showing it. Apparently, in Hawaii at that time, even children born out of the states could get the certificate of live birth.

If there is not a problem, what can be a simplier solution in resolving this issue. I don't care if is name is Barry or his father is Malcom X or Frank. I think it would have been cool if his father had been Malcom X. Of course, I am saying this is jest. I believe he is from Hawaii and he is legit but he does need to be vetted.

He owes us this. We are his Boss and we wouldn't have hired him unless he had the legal qualifications.

Hey Krisipuu, Whats a proper little concern troll? I had to laugh. Do you write fantasy?

Posted by: klozano | August 6, 2009 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Do you write fantasy? Posted by: klozano |
#####################################

No, but could you give me some lessons?

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

By the way, Klozano, a concern troll is someone who pretends to lean toward one side of an argument (while actually supporting the other), and says, disingenuously, with "concern," something like this:

Obama seems like a nice person and I agree with most of his ideas but he needs to resolve this issue so he and the country can concentrate on other issues...If he is legit, then this goes to bed and folks will have to find something else for entertainment.

You just drip with insincerity. Only birthers believe Obama's birth certificate is an "issue" that needs to "be resolved."

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 6, 2009 11:10 PM | Report abuse

VP TAMMY DARVISH of DARCARS Automotive Group -

She was the one that was whining back in Jan about all the dealerships that would be closing-

She was on C-Span this week complaining about the CARS program.

I wonder if she realized what Chapter 7 in December 2008 - what the GOP wanted for GM and Chrysler-would have done to dealerships? Versus the Chapter 11 President Obama worked for?

I wonder if she is an expert defining the difference between Chap 7 and Chap 11?

She also commented on C-Span that too many people expect their congress person to know about Health Care and Birth Certificates!

EXPERTS of BIRTH CERTIFICATES?

Who is the EXPERT of a BIRTH CERTIFICATE TAMMY DARVISH?

Posted by: sasha2008 | August 7, 2009 10:52 AM | Report abuse

Years ago the John Birch Society "discovered" the Communist conspiracy to put flouride in America's water in a mind-control plot.

We laughed then.

Now we see the "birthers" (nee Ku Klux Klan), anti-health reform screamers, Republican senators frightened of wise little old Catholic ladies, and the trailer park female-impersonator crying hysterically that she "wants America back." I begin to fear the Birchers were right after all.

Or maybe its all that anal-probing inflicted by aliens!

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 7, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

I get suspicious of "news" people who try to demonize those they disagree with. We are just ordinary Americans who care about the Constitution and want to make sure those who we place in political office deserve by law to be there.

This is a controversy only because Barack Obama refuses to release the proper documents that will prove his right to be President. When someone take the low road and spends a lot of money to keep secrets, what do you expect reasonable people to believe. It is not good enough for people with a vested interest to say they have seen his long form birth certificate and he was born in Hawaii.

I, personally, would like to see his long form birth certificate, his admission records to college to see if he registered as a citizen or foreign student, his passport records and the money trail to find out who is paying for all these lawyers hired to surpress his records.

The longer he lets this fester, the more people jump on the bandwagon. This is not going away.

Posted by: gerrypooh | August 7, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

OK, how about this, "birthers"/psychotically-obsessed losers:

A person born overseas to a parent who is a U.S. citizen is a U.S. citizen at birth. If you took a moment to reflect, you might recall that this was why John McCain, born in Colon, Panama, was nevertheless a U.S. citizen at birth.

To my knowledge, there is no credible evidence to suggest that Obama's mother was not a U.S. citizen. So please shut the h*ll up and move on to the next chapter in your empty lives.

Posted by: pcpatterson | August 7, 2009 12:12 PM | Report abuse

The Ku Klux Klan refuses to offer any reasons to explain why Hillary Clinton, John McCain and Sarah Palin, conspired to put Obama in the White House by refusing to exploit the 1961 government conspiracy everyone knows about. It just occured to me, this is a "Baby Jesus" thing, isn't it?

Posted by: matthewjblack | August 7, 2009 12:23 PM | Report abuse

I am certainly no Obama fan... but this "birther" stuff seems a little out there to me... much like the "truthers" who said Bush 43 was behind 9/11. Or the crowd that insisted that Gore won the 2000 election... though not one of the many recounts EVER proved this to be true. I disagree with Obama on most of what he is doing... but I'm pretty sure he's American... if they had a video of him being born with a picture of Diamond Head in the background I'm sure people would say it was a fake photo. But just because I don't like Obama, please don't group me in with the jack-balls.

"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration."
-- Hillary Clinton

Get anti Obama Stickers here: http://www.FRedStates.com

Posted by: UpYoursObama | August 7, 2009 2:36 PM | Report abuse

and don't you wonder how many of the ones complaining "if Obama doesn't have anything to hide, why doesn't he release everything" were saying the same thing with regard to Bush and Cheney refusing to testify under oath before the 9/11 commission, or Cheney refusing to release even the names of the energy execs he met with? Not too many, I'd venture....

Posted by: pcpatterson | August 7, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

I read some posting by some kook asking what Obama is hiding by not producing the original of his birth certificate. I thought in America, there are laid down rules and regulations for anything and law is always couched on precedences. Who is that president in the past who has had to show his birth certificate several times after election, (after the official certification process)? I thought in democracies especially advanced ones like that of America, people accept the verdict of the polls with honour and dignity and do not continue to be rancunous to the extent of looking ridiculous because their preferred candidate lost. It is such a shame.

Posted by: bisong | August 7, 2009 7:29 PM | Report abuse

This is a controversy only because Barack Obama refuses to release the proper documents that will prove his right to be President. Posted by: GERRYPOOH
##########################################

What controversy?

Obama proved he's a natural born citizen last year already.

There are no other documents to produce that would make that fact more true than it is now.

Posted by: Krisipuu | August 7, 2009 8:46 PM | Report abuse

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