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Matchday Sudamericana I: Chivas at DCU

Steinberg here. Apologies for the late beginning. Lots of traffic outside. Lots of Goats in the parking lot. Lots of humidity in the air.

For the first time since I've been on this beat, I'm actually going to cover a D.C. United fixture. Amazing, right?

Your lineup: GK Perkins; Ds Burch, McTavish, Vanney, Namoff; Ms Fred, Simms, Gomez, Olsen; Fs Moreno, Emilio.

Reserves: Nolly, Boswell, Carroll, deRoux, Gros, Kpene, Addlery.

As players acknowledged yesterday, there is no greater purpose through Sudamericana; in other words, a strong showing here doesn't necessarily earn DCU an invitation to any future tournaments. But if you think these players aren't bitter about coming up short in past international events, you probably also believe DCU will be playing in a new stadium next spring. Tom Soehn called this tournament "huge" for the club. Dave Kasper said his players were "gutted" by their loss in Mexico. Ben Olsen said things were "somber" after that loss, describing "the same feeling we always have when we leave Mexico: it's always disappointment." But tonight, DCU is in-season, at home, and--if you discount the Chicago performance--in the midst of a stellar streak of play. You're not going to get many better chances than this.

(Btw, Josh Gros, when asked about the importance of Copa Sudamericana? "I don't know exactly how big each tournament is, but I assume this is a pretty big one," he said. That's just how Josh rolls.)

One final note: as first reported on BobbyBoswell.com, this tournament doesn't permit players to wear numbers higher than 25. And so Boswell is wearing the number 2, Addlery is in 23, Namoff is in 5, and Jaime Moreno is in 9. Familiar sight, huh? Freddy was in 9 in the 2005 Copa Sudamericana, and so Jaime wore 7. We believe this is the first time Jaime will be back in 9 since he left for NY.

Ok, pre-game, in-game and post-game thoughts below, please. Quotes and post-game thoughts will follow, probably late tonight.

By Dan Steinberg  |  September 26, 2007; 7:54 PM ET
Categories:  D.C. United  
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Next: Chivas Aftermath

Comments

I was trying to find out line-ups so went to BSPN and saw the following starters list:
Troy Perkins (G)
  Nicholas Addlery (D)
  Bobby Boswell (D)
  Mark Burch (D)
  Bryan Namoff (D)
  Bryan Carroll (M)
  Joshua Gros (M)
  Devon McTavish (M)
  Domenic Mediate (M)
  Luciano Emilio (F)
  Jaime Moreno (F)

Who knew Addlery was our latest defensive convert. Where do they get this stuff?!?

Needless to say, I was releaved to find the true line-up

Posted by: Phew!!! | September 26, 2007 8:14 PM | Report abuse

...or relieved as it were.

Posted by: Phew!!! again | September 26, 2007 8:16 PM | Report abuse

Wait, that's a different list from Steinberg's. Which is correct?

Posted by: soccergirl | September 26, 2007 8:21 PM | Report abuse

I would estimate about 2/3 Chivas fans to 1/3 United fans. All are very loud.

Posted by: Markus | September 26, 2007 8:24 PM | Report abuse

how do you spell the tournament properly in the title and botch it in the body? :)

I hope DC does well for the sake of some more respect for MLS. I'm no United fan but their success in this tournament means as much if not more for the league than it means for United so I hope they win it all. I will be watching the match later tonight.

That numbering restriction is rather archaic. It's like England in the 1920's.

Posted by: papa bear | September 26, 2007 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Any one know if this game is streaming somewhere for free?

Posted by: Leef | September 26, 2007 8:27 PM | Report abuse

Or if there is a good matchtracker?

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 8:32 PM | Report abuse

I caved and bought the $4.95 matchday audio. I am weak. I never even did this for my beloved Nationals.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 8:45 PM | Report abuse

Here's the matchtracker.

The audio link on dcunited.com isn't working for some reason.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 8:47 PM | Report abuse

unless the game hasn't started, the matchtracker doesn't seem to be working either.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 8:49 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Mike | September 26, 2007 8:55 PM | Report abuse

well, there's no video and i can't find any audio, either. it says that the game will be broadcast on 1160 AM, but the stream at http://wmet1160.com is just music. anyone have any ideas?

Posted by: spence | September 26, 2007 8:55 PM | Report abuse

nevermind, thanks mike

Posted by: spence | September 26, 2007 8:56 PM | Report abuse

Moreno did briefly wear the #9 jersey when he came back to United before the 2004 season. When the team trained down in Mexico (and before Freddy Adu joined the team), Jaime was wearing the #9 jersey. How do I know? Because I own his game worn shirt.

Posted by: mkpage | September 26, 2007 8:57 PM | Report abuse

Can someone tell me why Comcast wont work a deal to air these games. Yeah I know Fox Soccer has the rights or whatever but I dont get that channel on basic cable. Im tired of waiting on Tape Delays, Watching the whole game in Spanish, or waiting for that match tracker to start. Plus that things is always like 10 minutes behind.

Oh well at least Comcast is showing a replay of the UVA Tech game for the third time this week.

Posted by: Matt RVA | September 26, 2007 8:58 PM | Report abuse

WMET only has MLS United games.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:04 PM | Report abuse

@Matt RVA: Simple answer for a simple question. Fox Soccer pays money. Comcast pays little (if any. I'm not sure if DCU actually pays Comcast).

$$$ trumps $.

Posted by: James | September 26, 2007 9:06 PM | Report abuse

1-0 DC - Olsen scores in 23'

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:10 PM | Report abuse

what's the score!?!?!

matchtracker is out on MLS net, I'm at work and can't download sopcast . . . ugh

good thing I'll grab those TV highlights on the late night local news . . . oh wait . . .

Posted by: delantero | September 26, 2007 9:11 PM | Report abuse

OLSENNNNNNN! 25 yard blast and it's DC 1-0. May have been deflected, about 22 minutes in.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:12 PM | Report abuse

jaime whiffs on a great feed in the box by fred, but the ball gets cleared to olsen who has a great strike from about ~25 yards out.

i wonder if the ref caught up with burch to give him a card after all that. looks like he deserved one with an ugly tackle.

Posted by: pat | September 26, 2007 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Olsen goal! Amazing, let's keep it up. Keeper was asleep.

Posted by: Carmines | September 26, 2007 9:12 PM | Report abuse

Burch did get that card

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:13 PM | Report abuse

Poor clearance by Chivas after a Fred threat, Olsen took it about 25 yards to the right of the 18 circle and fired an ankle breaker that may have been deflected to the lower left corner of the net. Chivas goalie was very slow to react. Yellow card to Burch in the 26'

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:15 PM | Report abuse

Emilio with an open look from 20 yards, misses left by a foot or two. Keeper looked like he had it covered. Chivas looks shaken and off their stride by the goal, which was slightly against the run of play.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:21 PM | Report abuse

Moreno through off a beutiful 1-2 with Fred, but the flag is up. Looked like a good call.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Burch with an excellent stab to prevent a possible break by Medina.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:25 PM | Report abuse

Awful mistake by the Chivas defense gives Emilio a chance, but he can't convert/ Disappointing, a solid chance for DC.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:29 PM | Report abuse

Second yellow on Burch in 44'

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:30 PM | Report abuse

burch might have deserved the first yellow but there's no way he should have gotten another for that tap on the calf.

Posted by: pat | September 26, 2007 9:31 PM | Report abuse

burch red card

Posted by: spence | September 26, 2007 9:32 PM | Report abuse

2nd yellow to Burch and he's off. Not sure that was a yellow card myself, but it was clearly a foul. Really bad break for Burch.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:33 PM | Report abuse

Bravo finally gets free in the DC 18, but his weak header cause no problems for Perkins. And that's the half.

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:35 PM | Report abuse

Someone scored? who scored?

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 26, 2007 9:40 PM | Report abuse

watch Soehn bring on Addlery for Emilio or Jaime

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Chivas controlled the first 20 minutes, then DC played pretty well the rest of the way. The killed off about 2 minutes after the Burch sending off, but clearly they are going to have to make changes at halftime (Boswell for Gomez or Moreno perhaps) to try to hold the lead. And we get fun with the fast forward switch as our halftime entertainment...

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:40 PM | Report abuse

Oh, nevermind.

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 26, 2007 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Good grief! Someone take the remote control away from the chimp and get us back to the game!!

Posted by: Throwin | September 26, 2007 9:43 PM | Report abuse

I'm sitting in a basically all Chivas section, and everyone is saying that birch didn't deserve the second yellow.

Posted by: soccergirl | September 26, 2007 9:44 PM | Report abuse

where's the ref from?

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 9:46 PM | Report abuse

Hell

Posted by: Taylor | September 26, 2007 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Argentina

Posted by: soccergirl | September 26, 2007 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Simms scores 55' - DC 2-0

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:01 PM | Report abuse

Gros for Jaime

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Gomez is cramping up

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Josh in for who? and GOOOOOOOOOOOOAALLL by CLYDE SIMMS!!!

Posted by: Kris | September 26, 2007 10:04 PM | Report abuse

Santana scores: DC 2-1 Chv

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:07 PM | Report abuse

2-1

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:08 PM | Report abuse

When I saw that cross hit, I knew it was trouble...

Man I hate that every Chivas player is named "Toyota"...

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 10:10 PM | Report abuse

What's that Bravo? "We beat them fairly easily" What? Huh?

Posted by: d | September 26, 2007 10:10 PM | Report abuse

CLYDE SIMMS!!! You've got to be joking with me. Is this his first career goal?

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 26, 2007 10:13 PM | Report abuse

This is not looking good...

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Carroll for Gomez

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:18 PM | Report abuse

Lets either go for one more, or really really bunker down in Guadalejara

Posted by: Taylor | September 26, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse

gomez on stretcher=bad

Posted by: niv | September 26, 2007 10:20 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, Gomez w/ cramps.

Perkins looks harried. Had to one-hand-punch the last corner, and was lucky a diving header wasn't on target.

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 10:21 PM | Report abuse

Bunker, bunker, bunker.

Posted by: d | September 26, 2007 10:22 PM | Report abuse

Chivas is all over the ball. If there's a rebound, we're in trouble.

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 10:25 PM | Report abuse

just finding this thread.... on my TV (via Verizon FIOS) Fox Soccer/Spanish is carrying the game, with English commentary.

Posted by: MJP | September 26, 2007 10:34 PM | Report abuse

do we really not have a single corner kick at the 85th minute?

Posted by: hokie soccer fan | September 26, 2007 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Boswell for Namoff

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:34 PM | Report abuse

Like DC could score on a corner?

Posted by: RK | September 26, 2007 10:36 PM | Report abuse

To Hokie soccer fan:

Can't wait till Friday.

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 26, 2007 10:41 PM | Report abuse

Final 2-1 DC

Posted by: Anonymous | September 26, 2007 10:42 PM | Report abuse

I'll be up at Charlottesvile for the game you're referring to, UVA at RFK

Posted by: Taylor | September 26, 2007 10:42 PM | Report abuse

Game over DC 2- CHV 1!!!!

Posted by: Kristina | September 26, 2007 10:43 PM | Report abuse

:) i hope it's a good one. good luck.

Posted by: hokie soccer fan | September 26, 2007 10:43 PM | Report abuse

what % of the crowd were dc fans vs chivas fans?, was it like the first game this year

Posted by: Paco | September 26, 2007 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Burch's ejection was unfortunate. I felt we could have knocked in a few more 11 on 11.

Posted by: d | September 26, 2007 11:03 PM | Report abuse

And were the Chivas fans as fine as they were last time...and are any of them ready to also add DC United to their fan interest?

There's nothing at all wrong with supporting teams in different leagues.

Posted by: seahawkdad | September 26, 2007 11:06 PM | Report abuse

I guess Burch is unavailable at Chivas?

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 26, 2007 11:08 PM | Report abuse

looked like fred got whacked in the face right in front of the ref in the 90th minute and he didn't do anything about it. or when he got mauled a couple minutes later.

Posted by: pat | September 26, 2007 11:15 PM | Report abuse

why did gomez turn his back during national anthem or does he always do that? Anyway Perkins is a god and the easy mvp some of his saves were just amazing.

Lots of goats were converted to dcu at rfk tonight

Posted by: southeasterner | September 26, 2007 11:35 PM | Report abuse

The second half was scary, scary. The Goats had many chances to score but consistently sent the ball up and over the net. We also seemed to have gone back to the long dump back to the other team at midfield for a long stretch of the half.

In terms of attendance, there were probably as many Chivas fans as in the spring but on the loud side they were more in the corner than they were in spring.

Posted by: Section 232 | September 26, 2007 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Actually, Perkins only had 2 good saves. My MOTM was Simms, who was everywhere when we were down a man and got a goal (note: someone wanted to know whether it was his only-ever goal; it was not. He had a 30 yard bullet against Chicago last season). Sensational effort from him.

We were outplayed until our goal, then had about 20 minutes of good play. Things were somewhat even when we got our 2nd, but after that it was all Chivas. Fortunately, they cannot shoot at all.

I sit behind the SEs, where it was probably 60% United fans. That said, it appeared from a distance that the weak side was mostly Chivas fans.

Posted by: Chest Rockwell | September 26, 2007 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Looks like the Argentine team, Arsenal, awaits us (provided we win or tie in Guadalajara). Isn't that Gomez' old team?

And South American giant Boca Juniors just got eliminated, with a 1-0 loss in the second, away leg, of their match v. Sao Paulo. Boca Juniors won the first leg at home 2-1, then lost 1-0 away, meaning the 'away' goals weigh more than the home goals. DC needs a strong showing in the next leg to advance. VAMOS UNITED!

Here's a couple of Argentine news stories about Arsenal's win and Boca's defeat (en espanol):

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/nota.asp?nota_id=947563&origen=relacionadas

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/deportiva/nota.asp?nota_id=947561&pid=3254896&toi=5234

Posted by: Andy in capitol hill | September 26, 2007 11:49 PM | Report abuse

Just got back from RFK... really fun night. Tons of chivas fans (of course) and a really great atmosphere. I won't say anything bad about those fans, all the people I met were cool and just out to support their team.

Burch... what can you say. The second yellow was questionable, but I think he was playing too reckless for a guy with a card. It's a shame that he got sent off because I liked the way he was playing on offense. He combines really well with Fred (who was excellent in the first half).

Chivas was probably better. DC was obviously under the gun for the entire second half, and I give the team a ton of credit for hanging on.

DC had about three chances to score and got two of them. Not pretty, but it did the job. Ben Olsen seems to score every time I go to a DC game. God bless him. I love this team.

Posted by: stairs | September 26, 2007 11:50 PM | Report abuse

OK - so I was at the game and am watching right now on FSC and still cannot figure out how Burch earned the first yellow. I didn't see any caution-worthy tackle while at the game (nor did I see a yellow card shown) an FSC just showed the graphic of Burch being awarded the yellow, but I watched and rewound and watched and still couldn't see anything.

Obviously, I was stunned when Burch was sent off with that "second" yellow.

Can someone fill me in as to what happened on that first yellow?!

Posted by: DE | September 27, 2007 12:09 AM | Report abuse

I enjoyed the game and the fans. Sat in the middle of Chivas fans and they were all nice and there was some light ribbing going back and forth but nothing serious. Even got a cig from a chivas fans in the parking lot.

Posted by: as | September 27, 2007 12:17 AM | Report abuse

DE - Burch's first yellow was well earned. He made a really bad, late tackle after the Chivas player had already played the ball, but the ref rightly let advantage continue. The ensuing attack ended up turning into the DC counter which led to Olsen's goal. I still don't know what the second yellow was for and I'm watching now to see what happened.

Posted by: G-Dub | September 27, 2007 12:21 AM | Report abuse

It just showed on FSC.

That was seriously light.

I would barely have been able to call it a foul given the way the calls were being made tonight.

Posted by: Jason S | September 27, 2007 12:23 AM | Report abuse

After seeing the replay of the second yellow, that's a bit harsh by the ref. You don't give out a second yellow that early in the game for a weak kick like that.

Posted by: G-Dub | September 27, 2007 12:23 AM | Report abuse

The second yellow looked pretty bogus too me.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 27, 2007 12:24 AM | Report abuse

The Barra really brought it tonight...that was fun and crazy!

Loved the warmups when the Chivas players were in front of the barra and all they heard was a ton of people yelling" fcuk you chivas!"

Posted by: BillP | September 27, 2007 12:40 AM | Report abuse

if thats what barra cheer than they are a disgrace! I love DC but thats not showing support, thats showing stupidity. Chivas is a great team with great players and should be respected. I hate fans that show no respect. Security should throw every fan chanting this out. The fans have rules of conduct on their side, Are you a fan of soccer, or are you a fan of beer and yelling and nothing else, Stay Home!

Posted by: DC fan | September 27, 2007 1:05 AM | Report abuse

crowd excellent - huge walkup - most of the second level (400's) sold. 60/40 chivas fans but very respectful. not like when I was in Guadalajara in March and they boo'ed during our anthem.

the number restrictions even caught some of the DCU staff unawares - there was quite some surprise to see Jaime and Boswell in the single digits. [would love to see Jaime keep the #9].

the Chivas staff I spoke to after the game said yes, we (Chivas) were lucky DC suffered the red card, and to get one on the road; they were surprised to have so many supporters in DC, nice atmosphere; DC played well, "maybe" better than us, but we are very confident for next week. I

If I understand the rules correctly, for this tournament away goals count 2x, home goals 1x, so for all practical purposes we are tied going into estadio jalisco. We MUST win or tie with at least one goal a piece. a 0-0 draw means we are still tied, and then either extra time or PK's.

should be fun......

Posted by: section 107 | September 27, 2007 1:07 AM | Report abuse

DC fan said "Security should throw every fan chanting this out." This would have meant emptying out large amounts of the loud side. In terms of respect, I don't speak spanish but I don't think the Chivas chant that included what sounded like "DC United" was a love song.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 27, 2007 1:10 AM | Report abuse

It's one thing to intimidate and get inside the heads of the opposing team/crowd. It's another thing to use such vile language when kids are around.

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 27, 2007 1:24 AM | Report abuse

to DC Fan:

while that particular chant is, ahem, rude in polite company, I am guessing you have never been to a soccer game outside of MLS or the US, or a run of the mill deadskins game (or any NFL game, especially filthadelphia) or a MLB or NBA game. "Eff-you" to the other team is the most tame of taunts fans throw out to the other team.

and, oh by the way, I was in Guadalajara for our game against them in March, and the entire crowd not only wasnt respectful during the US national anthem, they boo'ed and shouted disparaging chants during our national anthem, including trying to throw beer on the team and the 4 DCU fans that were there.

so, please, disapprove all you want, but spare us the holier than thou "disgraceful fan conduct" comments because we (DC fans) give much less than we get, particularly to folks who are used to getting death threats for not playing well, and will give a rats turd less about you and your "graceful" behavior. We dont get any points for being nice (although we dont really get any points for not being nice either). while we might keep a little self respect for being "nice", it dont help in the "dont tread on me" arena.

and no, much as I wanted to, I did not steal a chivas fan's scarf or game worn jersey to make up for the same thing that was done to the DCU fans who were at the game in Guadalajara.

Posted by: section 107 | September 27, 2007 1:30 AM | Report abuse

Fun game. I thought the lads played some inspired ball in parts of the first half, and at times they looked clearly superior to Chivas.

The second half, with DC a man down, was a different story and the lads wore down under the assault from the talented and very quick kids from Chivas. But they held on. I don't think I've ever seen DC have deficits in possession time, shots on goal, corners, etc. The total domination of possession by Chivas was worrisome.

Simms' goal was totally against the run of play but, hey, I'll take it.

Posted by: Mitch | September 27, 2007 1:48 AM | Report abuse

you made my point, don't act like they do, I was at the DC United vs Pumas game in Mexico City, they booed the national anthem, why act like they do, don't excuse stupid behaviour because other people do it or behave worse, have some class, use your mind and come up with something better, I'm 31 and have attended games all my life, all sports, different countries, barra brava cheers were taken from other stadiums. Be unique, start something new that the whole stadium can cheer, barra brava has no support in the stadium from the other fans...there is a reason for this, total fan support would be great, people do their best to not sit near them because they are annoying. watch this great support and please share with them.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LBBPoyXEOhM

Posted by: DC Fan | September 27, 2007 2:24 AM | Report abuse

Section 107,

If Eagles fans and international soccer fans jump off a cliff, should you do the same? :)

Posted by: Plato | September 27, 2007 2:29 AM | Report abuse

Wow, nice footage DC fan. Unfortunately, the quiet (and annoyed?) side would rather take on a more sedentary role as fans. They won't be jumping no matter how clean the Barra gets. After all, this is a baseball stadium. Where's my hot dog?

Posted by: UVA to RFK | September 27, 2007 2:35 AM | Report abuse

If you wanna complain about a little profanity at a soccer match, sit on the quiet side.

Contrary to what BSPN, soccer is not just a nancy-boy sport for stuck-up snobs.

Oh Noooo... the rest of the stadium doesn't support La Barra Brava... fine. We aren't there to be supported by them, we're there to support United, or maybe you missed the huge spread on La Barra Brava in the Post earlier this summer? My parents (whom are both in their 60's) loved the piece and the passion shown by the Barra.

I bet you complain about the Terps fans as well don't you?

The Nats don't play at RFK anymore, you'll have to go elsewhere to sit on your hands at a sporting event.

Posted by: AlecW81 | September 27, 2007 2:43 AM | Report abuse

The only thing the Barra could be accused of is lack of originality. A more creative use of profanity would be more to my liking... But this nonsense about 'the children' is a bit naive. As an elementary school teacher, I can tell you, believe it, your children already know those words. It's your job as a parent to explain appropriate context to your children. As in, either, "I know you hear some adults saying those words, but we don't say them" or "it's only appropriate to say those words if you're getting rowdy at a soccer game" ;-) Seriously, though, if you are doing your job, your kids will make the right choices. Or better yet, if you or the children are so damaged and offended by such language... sit in the family section.

Posted by: todd11 | September 27, 2007 3:49 AM | Report abuse

To Todd11--I agree 100% with your post. Its all about teaching kids context and location. There are things that come out of my daughter's mouth at United matches that under no circumstance would be appropriate elsewhere.

It was interesting at the game last night, because at the end the guy in front of (not a regular) said something to her like "So annoying" as he was leaving. Her response was "Its my job."

Posted by: Amen | September 27, 2007 7:52 AM | Report abuse

Re: The chant

- the whole loud side wasn't singing it. I didn't even hear it in 230.

- I curse like a sailor when appropriate, but that chant is flat out no class.

- I saw one Chivas fan screaming a similar obscenity, and he was quickly shouted down by his mates and told to shut up. Chivas fans classier than United's??

Posted by: JkR | September 27, 2007 8:02 AM | Report abuse

I was in front of a fairly loud bunch of Chivas fans, including one guy who was going too far much of the time. To their credit, the other Goats fans at least tried to get the guy to cool it, citing the presence of kids nearby (yet more goats fans).

In any group, someone acts stupid, and others in the group work on policing such behavior. As long as no one gets hurt and my beer is not messed with, fine.

Posted by: Section 129 | September 27, 2007 8:14 AM | Report abuse

The cursing is plain stupid and it has to discourage some parents from bringing small kids to the games. The argument that six year olds already know how to curse like sailors is disingenuous and, well, kind of ridiculous.

Beyond the cursing, I find the constant chanting ("DC United" a million times over) and drumbeats of the fan groups to be mind-numbingly dull and unimaginative. Really pathethic when you compare it to what you hear at a game in London, for example; creative mockery of the other side or their manager, and intelligent responses actually related to what's happening on the pitch.

Posted by: Mitch | September 27, 2007 9:00 AM | Report abuse

Celery, anyone? . ...

The clubs with the creative chants and whatnot are to be applauded, but think of how long it may have taken to develop that level of creativity. United is young by comparison, and the nature of this sort of crowd support is somewhat alien to Americans. Given time, the creativity and such will flow.

Posted by: Section 129 | September 27, 2007 9:07 AM | Report abuse

Mitch, by all means feel free to stay home if you don't like the fans at RFK. Many of us like it and enjoy being in that atmosphere.

The game last night was pretty intense. DC was under more offensive pressure in the 2nd half than I can ever remember. The bunker just barely held and amazingly we actually scored a goal during that half.

AWAY GOALS DO NOT COUNT DOUBLE!

The away goals rule is used as a tiebreaker if the teams are otherwise tied after the home-and-away series. If Chivas beat us by 1 goal in Guadalajara then the teams would be tied and the away goals tiebreaker would be used.

If for instance they beat us 1-0 in Guadalajara the aggregate score would be 2-2 but they would advance because they scored a goal at RFK while we didn't score in their place.

But if they beat us 3-2 in Guadalajara WE would advance on the 3-3 aggregate because we would have scored 2 goals on the road while they scored only one at RFK.

I'm not sure what happens if we lose 2-1, either it goes to extra time or straight to PKs.

Any tie or win in Guadalajara gets us through to the quarterfinals.

Posted by: garbaggio | September 27, 2007 9:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm a big admirer of Barra Brava, but FU chants directed at the opposition are low class (and lack creativity). I curse like a sailor among my friends but public FU chanting, depsite what Chivas own fans may do, says more about the chanters than the object of their scorn.

"Profanity is for those who lack the creativity and intelligence to otherwise express themselves."

Posted by: KR in DC | September 27, 2007 9:49 AM | Report abuse

Nice 2-1 win for the boys. Benny, Fred, and Perkins get game balls from me.

Has anyone been to Irish Channel in Chinatown to watch games? I'm hoping to check out the Fulham game there Saturday morning.

Posted by: Anonymous | September 27, 2007 10:24 AM | Report abuse

Yeah, count me in among the guilty. I was standing on the edge of the SE section and at one point, ahem, referenced the referee and fornication in the same sentence. I felt a tap on the shoulder and turned to see an usher who told me "you can't use bad words here."

About five minutes later someone else behind me let off an f-bomb, and I looked at the usher expectantly. She went and talked to the offender, but didn't look too happy about having to do it.

-------
"I'm a big admirer of Barra Brava, but FU chants directed at the opposition are low class (and lack creativity). I curse like a sailor among my friends but public FU chanting, depsite what Chivas own fans may do, says more about the chanters than the object of their scorn."

Posted by: Juan-John | September 27, 2007 11:00 AM | Report abuse

Although I agree with the profanity being dim-witted, the environment is so great it really doesn't matter that much. Long time ago I made the concious decision to take my three school age kids to the supporter's side so that they could experience the fantastic fan loyalty and good fun. I think they distinguish what is appropriate and not. Plus the Barra Brava and Screaming Eagles really do look out for them. My kids don't even want to go to baseball games now (I love it!)

The Chivas fans were great - it's great being at a game where the fans are evenly split.

Posted by: ML | September 27, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

I have to agree with everyone who admonishes the fan clubs about the FU ref chant. It doesn't help, and I wonder if it contributes to the refs bad officiating against DC.

However, when Mexican teams come to town the standards are a little different. We have not had 100 years of Association Football to come up with fan club chants, team histories, and other cultural rivalries. And really, do we want to emulate all the chanting done in the UK? For example, do we want to compose anti-catholic sectarian cheers that have a history in Irish racism and oppression like they do at Glasgow Rangers-Celtic derbys? The sporting culture is alot different here and should not try an emulate anybody. But when Chivas fans chant "Chingas su madre" after our DC United chants, don't you just want to yell "Chingadas Chivas!"? It got the Chivas fans smiling a little bit. Futbol culture is different the world round, and I am pretty happy with what we have going here in DC so far.

Posted by: T. Henry | September 27, 2007 11:14 AM | Report abuse

Instead of the FU ref, I'd love to hear the Barra Brava borrow a nice polite alternative from England:

"You don't know what you're doing!
You don't know what you're doing!"

continue ad infinitum.

:^)

Posted by: James C. in DC | September 27, 2007 11:35 AM | Report abuse

If I understand the rules correctly, for this tournament away goals count 2x, home goals 1x, so for all practical purposes we are tied going into estadio jalisco. We MUST win or tie with at least one goal a piece. a 0-0 draw means we are still tied, and then either extra time or PK's.

should be fun......

Posted by: section 107 | September 27, 2007 01:07 AM
*******************

WRONG!

Series winners are decided on points first. If we tied 0-0 in Jalisco we go through on 4 points. The first tied-breaker is goal differential. The second is away goals scored. And the final tie-breaker is PKs.

Posted by: Soy United! | September 27, 2007 12:00 PM | Report abuse

I will say also that the refs do not let the fans songs against them influence their calls. I know a lot of the men in yellow out there and they're too professional for that.

Doesn't change that having these types of discussions among supporters are good ones to have ... and I'm not saying that I don't slip up every now and then ... just wonder if maybe it's something we should keep changing.

And the throwing things at the police, who could come in and harass us a lot more than they do, after the fan was being escorted out, for trespassing, which he had to be by law, was completely uncalled for, irresponsible and could have serious repercussions ...

Posted by: DC Centurion's Shield | September 27, 2007 12:16 PM | Report abuse

You can support DCU without disrespecting the opponent. Some ribbing/mockery is all good, but mindless profanity reflects poorly on DC. If other teams' fans want to do that kind of thing, that's their decision. I would hope DC sets a higher standard - on the field and in the stands.

Great atmosphere last night, by the way. Definitely hope to do it all again in October.

Posted by: FC | September 27, 2007 12:37 PM | Report abuse

Well said DC Centurion. Throwing things at the police is assaulting a police officer, and an APO charge is much more serious than a tresspassing charge, and more likely to get papered. I can see the police not filing against the fan, and even a prosecutor dismissing the charges or declining to prosecute, but anyone throwing anything at a police officer is not going to be so lucky.

Posted by: T. Henry | September 27, 2007 12:40 PM | Report abuse

-Was adrift in the sea of Chivas fans last night, and found them all to be great sports. Multiple times I would stand up and applaud when Chivas blew one of their many chances with a wide or high shot and was greeted with the a-hole chant and pointed fingers by a few hundred people. In any massive group of fans for an important game there will be a few bad apples, but thought most of the back and forth ribbing I observed last night was good natured.

- Profanity should not be encouraged, but seems less harmful than the beer throwers and crazy parents at kids games.

-Anyone else think the kind word they chanted whenever Perkins had a goal kick contributed to his out of bounds shanks?

Posted by: Terps_United | September 27, 2007 12:59 PM | Report abuse

I started the whole thing on the chant...it was fun and the Chivas players laughed about it.

As for respect, every Barra person made sure no one booed the Mexican anthem...that was about showing respect and class.

Maybe the FU chant was bad...fair enough...I don't think so...it's all part of the fun rivalry...

To each their own...Barra brought it last night...if it made one tiny mistake, so be it...Barra isn't perfect, but shows what true support and passion for your team are...no fights, no thuggery, and no running around trying to start stuff after games.

Posted by: BillP | September 27, 2007 5:51 PM | Report abuse

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