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Arguez Deal Nears Completion

Despite not playing a minute in MLS last year, under-20 national teamer Bryan Arguez is on his way to the Bundesliga.

Through MLS channels, I've learned that D.C. United and the league have agreed to sell the 19-year-old midfielder to Hertha Berlin. Details could be wrapped up as early as tonight. He would become the second DCU player to be sold overseas this offseason, joining goalkeeper Troy Perkins (Valerenga, Norway).

How much would MLS and DCU receive in the transfer? Hard to say at the moment, but I'm speculating it's in the neighborhood of $350,000 -- a pretty handsome sum considering Arguez's lack of contribution last year and his probable reserve status this year.

He earned $76,000 last season, but because he was a Generation Adidas player, that figure did not count toward United's salary cap. It's fair to assume he will gain a healthy raise from Hertha.

How did this happen?

After an undistinguished year in Washington (on the practice field and in reserve games), Arguez went to Germany early this month for workouts and an informal trial -- and ended up dazzling the Hertha coaching staff. Go figure. Don't expect him to step into a Bundesliga match anytime soon, but the club clearly sees long-term potential in him.

More details as they are made available.....

By Steve Goff  |  January 16, 2008; 1:51 PM ET
Categories:  D.C. United  
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Comments

Great news! Glad to see opportunity knocking for the young ones!

Posted by: maw | January 16, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse

Who would've thought that the weak dollar would do so much to help American soccer players realize their Euro dreams?

Posted by: jrnail | January 16, 2008 2:20 PM | Report abuse

WOW!

Posted by: Joe | January 16, 2008 2:22 PM | Report abuse

Who would've thought that the weak dollar would do so much to help American soccer players realize their Euro dreams?

Posted by: jrnail | January 16, 2008 02:20 PM

-------------

LOL - Everyone familiar with recent Argentine history, I imagine....

Posted by: Lost in BA | January 16, 2008 2:23 PM | Report abuse

Rather than us sitting here armchair midfielder-ing about what Soehn and others at DCU did or didn't see in this kid, let's cheer that he didn't just drop to USL or somewhere else that returns no value. How many teams in MLS have taken on a kid or P-40/Gen.Adidas player and seen nothing from him and at the end of the day, not only wasted salary, but roster space.

If Hertha sees potential and can make something of him - great. However, they are going to pay DCU right now for the risk. DC gets $$$ and Hertha gets a player that has a past that isn't riddled with MLS success and either gets a contributor or a failed experiment. Either way - all parties win. Arguez may have never developed here and that says nothing about MLS/DCU/Soehn/America/etc. It's like anyone - sometimes you work in a job where there's little chance for you to develop and grow for a host of reasons and the only way to get to where you think/want to be is to up and go somewhere else. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Now - with this war chest of cash built up - who's our DP?

Posted by: UVA-United | January 16, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

good for him, but this means last year's draft was a complete bust:

-Brian Arguez: gone to Europe without ever making the bench
-Brad North: who?
-Jay Needham: didn't even sign with us
-Ricky Schramm: who?
-Luis Robles: signed somewhere else too, right?

Posted by: pat | January 16, 2008 2:25 PM | Report abuse

Interesting stuff, Goff.

Do you know how much of last season Arguez actually spent training with the team? I know he was away for some u20 training camps as well as the u20 World Cup - was he injured at some point, too?

United should get something significant in exchange if he does sign with Hertha. Just because he didn't play with the first team last season doesn't mean he wouldn't have played a significant amount of games this season (go back and compare Esky and B. Carroll's first 2 seasons).

Also DC used a 1st round draft pick on him.

Posted by: garbaggio | January 16, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Goff - did you end up writing that story on Jeremiah White? I don't think I've seen it. Can anyone post the link if it's on the site?

And good for Arguez. The more yanks abroad (even if they're struggling), the more likely someone will eventually have a breakthrough and play big minutes for a major club. My money's on Bradley being the first in a long time to get major minutes on a Champions League caliber team.

Posted by: Jay | January 16, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse

good for him, but this means last year's draft was a complete bust:

-Brian Arguez: gone to Europe without ever making the bench
-Brad North: who?
-Jay Needham: didn't even sign with us
-Ricky Schramm: who?
-Luis Robles: signed somewhere else too, right?

Posted by: pat | January 16, 2008 02:25 PM

Don't talk like a Redskins' fan. How is something a complete bust when you get $$$ for it? The fact that he never played is insignificant and by winning a second Supporter's Shield in a row, no big deal. Send us the ca$h!

Posted by: Joe Gibbs | January 16, 2008 2:32 PM | Report abuse

Any conspiracy theorists think Arguez is/was a goldbricker ?

Think about it. With the U-20 tournament, he did not need exposure in MLS. Obviously, the invite by Hertha had nothing to do with his success in the league, considering he did not play a minute.

Obviously, he won't figure in a senior side anytime soon, but you never know.

Twellman must be raging about this. DC seems to just bend right over, I mean go out of their way, when a player gets a sniff from overseas. The Revs hold on to to players like they're made out of gold.

The only thing that ticks me off is that DCU literally got nothing out of having the kid here, other than a bullet in the kid's Wikipedia page.

Easy come, easy go.

Posted by: Erick | January 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Report abuse

[quote]Rather than us sitting here armchair midfielder-ing about what Soehn and others at DCU did or didn't see in this kid, let's cheer that he didn't just drop to USL or somewhere else that returns no value. How many teams in MLS have taken on a kid or P-40/Gen.Adidas player and seen nothing from him and at the end of the day, not only wasted salary, but roster space.

If Hertha sees potential and can make something of him - great. However, they are going to pay DCU right now for the risk. DC gets $$$ and Hertha gets a player that has a past that isn't riddled with MLS success and either gets a contributor or a failed experiment. Either way - all parties win. Arguez may have never developed here and that says nothing about MLS/DCU/Soehn/America/etc. It's like anyone - sometimes you work in a job where there's little chance for you to develop and grow for a host of reasons and the only way to get to where you think/want to be is to up and go somewhere else. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Now - with this war chest of cash built up - who's our DP?[/quote]

Management needs be evaluated every year. If they are not recognizing, or worse ignoring valuable talent, then they should be held accountable.

Posted by: Joe | January 16, 2008 2:35 PM | Report abuse

What about Marcus DaBeasley at PSV and Jon O'Broken at Ajax logging major minutes for clubs that went deep in the so-called "Champions (ha!) League"

Posted by: @Jay | January 16, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

Who would've thought that the weak dollar would do so much to help American soccer players realize their Euro dreams?

Posted by: jrnail | January 16, 2008 02:20 PM
---------------------
Joey Thieman is stronger than the dollar.

Posted by: grumpy | January 16, 2008 2:38 PM | Report abuse

because this happens year in and year out! Kevin Payne needs to tell Kaspar that hey needs to pay a little bit more attention to the draft because we can't rely on south american talent forever, or for more than 8 roster spots at least.

so now we're without an entire draft class from 2007. from 2006 we just have Rod Dyachenko (who cost us this year's first round pick also, btw) and Jeff Carroll, who's played only a little bit more than Arguez ever did.

and people say we have no depth now, wait a couple years to see how this really hurts.

Posted by: pat | January 16, 2008 2:40 PM | Report abuse

UVA-United said it all.

With that in mind, let me take this opportunity to offer my services to the EPL -- my WISL team says they are willing to part with this goalkeeper in exchange for a new set of uniform kits.

Posted by: MtP | January 16, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

I may be in the minority, but this is a bit depressing. From here on, it is all "if" and "what if".

Posted by: sitruc | January 16, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Arguez started the last 3 or 4 warm ups before the U20's and did very well. Esepcially versus Argentina in Rochester.

He came out of nowhere really and was added real late to the U20 team. He really did impress. Just stuck behind Mikey B and Szetela. Nothing to sneeze at folks.

The B'liga now has many scouts here looking at our matches, even reserves, due to our agreement with them. This will happen more in th enext couple of years.

MLS is a tough league for young kids to break into. Physical style that does not favor skill, with a couple of team exceptions, and our reserves aren't deep or competetive.

Young skilled players who aren't physially ready should go to Europe right now IMO. They have a larger more esteablished program with reserves playing more matches in more competetive/intense environments.

Good move for all. This kid has good upside folks. You can see it when he plays. He is still eligible to play for the next U20 WC. He is young. Very young.

Personally, I think he has a good chance to be a winner overseas from the sample matches I have seen against his peers. As he grows, so will his game. One to keep an eye out for.

Posted by: TK | January 16, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

I wonder how Mr. Beasley feels about his significant Champions League minutes this season being overlooked.

Maybe Santino should try training overseas for a while.

Posted by: B.A. | January 16, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Bad move. This kid is better than the DC coaches realized, and I've been saying that for a while. Risk? For 350K? There is very little risk to Hertha at that type of money and is going to prove to be a blow to the depth of DC for 2008. If the DC coaches still can't recognize this guys talent, somebody should be out on his ear.

Posted by: Thomas | January 16, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

What about Marcus DaBeasley at PSV and Jon O'Broken at Ajax logging major minutes for clubs that went deep in the so-called "Champions (ha!) League"
--------------------

True... maybe I should've stipulated that I'm looking forward to a player who doesn't break down faster than Ikea furniture at a fat camp...

Posted by: Jay | January 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

I hope the kid does real well, but I did not hear anyone clamouring for him to get PT until an all knowing euro club said they liked him.
I wish it was for more than $350,000 though.
If he was not impressing (slacking?) here then maybe a change of scenery is exactly what he needs.

Posted by: jgildea | January 16, 2008 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Interesting. Two down, (maybe 4 w/ Moreno/Gomez), 16 to go and we have no team left =/

Best of luck to the kid, he'll do fine.

Posted by: strago | January 16, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"Joey Thieman is stronger than the dollar."

There's a random name from the past. Anyone know where he went after DCU?

Posted by: wisc ave | January 16, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

This is good news for the player, good news for the team, and good news for the league. Arguez gets a shot overseas, we unload a player who we were not likely going to use anyway and get some cash, and MLS gets more active in the transfer market.

This league needs to but AND sell players on the transfer market if it is going to succeed. The more players we transfer to Europe (for actual money) the more successful the league will be in drawing in talent from all of CONCACAF and South America. We need to be seen as players on the international market to be taken seriously by the other leagues, both a from a management and a player standpoint. If they start to see a demand for MLS players internationally players will want to come here. As much as we hate to admit it, MLS is a business.

Posted by: DJC | January 16, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

Arguez was let go rather easily for OFF THE FIELD reasons. They almost kicked him off the team midseason. If there were not off the field concerns, DCU would have never let him go unless the price was absurd, bc he has a huge upside and didnt count towards the cap...

Posted by: Nick | January 16, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

"I wish it was for more than $350,000 though."

Letting him go for a reasonable offer, instead of greedily holding out for ridiculous money, will not only make Arguez happy, it will lead players to understand that DCU, in addition to being a winning club, is the kind of outfit that can be a springboard to the big time.

As MLS teams get more and more control of their rosters, that's the kind of good treatment of players that will pay off far more than a few hundred thousand extra bucks for Arguez. Contrast that with the dirtbags at New England, who screw their players at every opportunity: after Twellman and Joseph, talented and ambitious players would rather slit their wrists than sign a contract with the Revolution.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

"There's a random name from the past. Anyone know where he went after DCU?"

A large Milwaukee's Best beer can fell out of the sky onto him...

Posted by: grumpy | January 16, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

I WISH it was more. I do not think they should of held out...

Posted by: jgildea | January 16, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

We paid the kid $78k and we get back $350K at the end of the year. Not a bad piece of business. Plus, it will have no effect on the first team.

Let's reinvest this cash in the youth program so we can grow some more.

Posted by: Tommie | January 16, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

If Arguez is good enough for the Bundesliga, we just got doubly screwed with our pants on, not only on the relatively low transfer fee but because we got not even one first time minute out of a prime talent. Money isn't going to do us much good if we're not a lot more active in plugging pre-existing holes, not to mention our apparently newfound thinness at center-mid.

I mean, good for Arguez, but I have to give the front office a WTF on this one.

Posted by: Max J. | January 16, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

We do not get the full $350,000 do we? The league owns his contract not us so they get a good portion of it.

Posted by: jgildea | January 16, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

"Arguez was let go rather easily for OFF THE FIELD reasons. They almost kicked him off the team midseason. If there were not off the field concerns, DCU would have never let him go unless the price was absurd, bc he has a huge upside and didnt count towards the cap..."

and those reasons were...?

Posted by: d, dc | January 16, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Goodbye 'Mookie', we hardly new you.

Posted by: Jade | January 16, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Ok -

I'll gladly show Tommy the door for getting 4.6x Arguez's value to DCU. Perhaps we can get Fernando Clavijo, Hans Westerhof, or John Ellinger as our manager. Or go for the dream team and get The Special One to pair up with our Super Club GM Alexi Lalas. Those guys have had some stellar roster decisions.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't like the thought of having to replace that many names at our club in a given year, but at the same time - people screamed for some changes again as the team fell short of a Fifth Star/Scudetto.

I think the other issue is that people were expecting to see less Jamie and Christian and more youth/tested internationals. Now that it's been the other way around - everyone is jumpy.

Gotta love the offseason where all you do is kick your own until opening day. Then the season rolls around and you wait to fall until you resume cracking your own guys.

Posted by: UVA-United | January 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

DC United gets 2/3rds of transfer fees.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

Tommie, the point for some of us is that perhaps this should have affected the first team.

What magically happened between October and February where Arguez went from empty shirt to Bundeliga project? He surely did not get better after Thanksgiving dinner.

The talent, however raw, was there. Yet, nary an appearance. With all the injuries, this season, with all the pointless matches against basement MLS sides, not one minute could be spared? For all their minutes, or flashes of brilliance, neither Kpene nor Dyachenko (the better of the two) were able to turn around a game.

Sure, DC made some money, but in the grand scheme it is not that much (pays Gomez for one season).

Were loan schemes worked out? Or was the DC office all too happy to land a sucker's deal with Hertha, for fear that during the loan spell they Arguez's stock would drop?

For the 275 grand the profited, it might have been more than covered if the kept him in contract at $78k, sent for a year overseas to develop, then brought him back to finish that last year or two of his contract...getting a Bundesliga player for $78k a year, in effect. Then STILL be able to sell his rights before the contract ended.

It might prove to be a good business move, but as it looks right now, it leaves some of us scratching our heads (or at least those of us not distracted by a relatively puny transfer fee).

Posted by: Erick | January 16, 2008 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Thanks. So closer to $250,000 to DCU in Goff's instincts are correct.

Posted by: jgildea | January 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

This is progress! Can't make the game day roster in MLS but is the best player on the field during a friendly in Germany.

Next thing you'll tell me in the Revs will turn down offers like this for their players because they made a promise to their ticket holders.

Posted by: Bryan76 | January 16, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

Geoff,

Just in from Brazil...

Fluminense 17-year old twins sign with Manchester United for US$7 million each.

Fabio and Rafael play in Fluminense's (Rio de Janeiro, Brazil) youth system and had been to Manchester on trial on a few occasions.

The two boys caught the eye of Sir Alex Fergunson and Cristiano Ronaldo and Manchester United has now officially completed their purchase. They'll move to England permanently on January 21st.

The link below is in Portuguese but has pictures and video of the kids with AF and CR:

http://globoesporte.globo.com/ESP/Noticia/Futebol/Fluminense/0,,MUL261186-4284,00.html

Posted by: JP | January 16, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

Forgot to add...

This deal shows young players YOU DON'T NEED MLS to make it overseas. He garnered attention for U20 play and then, live, during his trial (sorry, Bryan Carroll).

Not one minute in MLS play. Gone for a large chunk of the season with the U20s.

So, how did MLS serve as his steppingstone other than to eagerly sign the transfer papers?

I am angry for Twellman and Shalrie.

Posted by: Erick | January 16, 2008 3:17 PM | Report abuse

Derby reject a second(third?) bid from the Israeli team for Feilhaber. The soccernet article also mentioned that there was interest from MLS for his services, so looks like Benny is on his way from England.

I don't understand. He was one of, if not the, best player for the US at the 05 U20 championships. He seemed to show potential for Hamburg, he played in a first team match (pretty impressive for a youngster) but couldn't crack the lineup for the first place team in the Championship ? And then he earns his first caps, and now he's on his way out after half a season in the EPL?
weird

Posted by: ReadingfromCH | January 16, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

DC are starting to look stupid. Favre, Hertha's coach, has stated to the press that he believes Arguez can contribute to the first team immediately. Do you realize how good that must mean he really is? Gomez couldn't crack Hertha's first 11 with a jetpack on.

350k is the equivalent of a handful of jellybeans on the international transfer market, especially when the kid has 3 years left on his contract. Plus, as other have stated, DC doesn't get his full transfer. I'm just going to ignore someone tossing around unsubstantiated rumors on the internet about a player's off field behavior.

So what next for once mighty DC? The inspiring signing of another midget sitting on the bench for a mid table Argentine squad? Woo hoo. DC are on the express train to mediocrity.

By the way, this proves without a doubt that Dave Kasper can't draft for nuts.

Posted by: DCU | January 16, 2008 3:19 PM | Report abuse

people, people. this is a good thing. mostly.

we do not have the resources or patience to develop players. we can't put Arguez on the bench for two, three years and wait for him to be good enough to play for the first team, our league is not structured that way. Columbus can play guys not ready for prime time (no offense, Crew) we can't, because we are competitive in everything we do. Arguez won't sniff Hertha's bench for two years. he wasn't ready to play at DCU's level in 2007, he probably would have gotten some time this year, but who knows. We don't have the roster spots to waste on a guy who needs seasoning before he can get onto the pitch. we aren't a developmental organization, we expect to win now, not wait five years and get spanked in the interim (at which point the guy leaves for Europe anyway)

Posted by: northzax | January 16, 2008 3:24 PM | Report abuse

DCU -

Huh? So the fact that Hertha thinks this kid is a first teamer means Kasper can't draft?????? It would seem to me if Kasper is picking guys who can start for Hertha he is doing a pretty good job.

Posted by: JH6 | January 16, 2008 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Nick,

care to elaborate on these off the field problems? I don't think anyone was aware of an issues.

Posted by: owendylan | January 16, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

JH6:

shh, don't disturb the 30 minutes of hate.

Posted by: northzax | January 16, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

$300,000 may seem like a great deal now....but the last thing MLS needs is another Michael Bradley (who garnered all of $100,000). No point selling youngsters before they mature when they'd be worth more, and I can't help thinking Hertha's coaching staff might just have the edge on DC's in terms of spotting and developing talent.

The fact that they want him would make me keep him alone.

Posted by: Aljarov | January 16, 2008 3:29 PM | Report abuse

also, when Hertha's coach says in the media "if we want Bryan Arguez, we will get Bryan Arguez", you would think we could have negotiated a bit more money?

Posted by: pat | January 16, 2008 3:30 PM | Report abuse

I can't speak for his performances with United, but when I saw Bryan Arguez with the U-20s vs Argentina in Rochester, NY previous to the U-20 World Cup, he was a standout performer in an impressive team performance. Even in a nearly full-strength squad, his composure on the ball and incisive passing were eye catching, to say the least. He may never grow to be the savior of US Soccer (seriously guys, we need to stop looking for that), but if Herta Berlin have caught a glimpse of that talent and potential, he may be well worth their investment. (Bear in mind youth and reserve systems in Europe are far better prepared and equipped to foster fledgling talent than current MLS squads.) This move may pay dividends for all parties, and Hertha Berlin seem to believe it's well worth the risk.

Posted by: Jamie Z. | January 16, 2008 3:31 PM | Report abuse

The same people crying here about Arguez not getting any minutes last year are the same people that would've cried if he came in and stunk up the joint. You can't have it both ways people. Chasing the Supporters Shield and trying to win some international tournaments were no place to break in a noob not to mention displace a player like Simms.

Posted by: DirtyHarry | January 16, 2008 3:32 PM | Report abuse

------
this proves without a doubt that Dave Kasper can't draft
------

how so? United didn't draft a player they used (outside the Reserve league), but he did bring the team a large chunk of transfer income. (I'd say that's a better than average return/output from a first round pick in the SuperDraft.)

will United fans miss Arquez like they miss Convey?

Posted by: transfer out | January 16, 2008 3:34 PM | Report abuse

Or it means Kasper does proper scouting but the coaching staff can't figure out how to use the kid.

Or, to subscribe to the Lalas, Garber, and Assoc, PR firm propaganda machine...it means DC United is, by definition, better than Hertha Berlin, since a DC scrub is ready for the Hertha first team. This is all the more tragic, since a Bundesliga-level MLS side cannot lay claim to the MLS Cup two years running.

This league is strange...

Posted by: Erick | January 16, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

Aljarov:

yeah, but would Bradley the Younger have become the player he is now if he was still a RedBull? or, I guess, a MetroStar? what every successful Bradley type signing does, over time, is increase the price for other players who need seasoning. MLS clubs are not that good at this for field players, we haven't had the resources to invest, and at the salaries we pay developmental players, you can't be shocked that players don't want to spend three years developing before playing.

Posted by: northzax | January 16, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

we in berlin are very happy about this deal. arguez has great potential and played a outstanding match this sunday.

Posted by: ich_bin_ein_berliner | January 16, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

I've seen your / our Arguez in just one game, a friendly game.
But I saw:
- he has a very good eye for the empty place, and teammates, he can read a game and can quickly analyse game situations.

In Berlin he will play in the first 11, this year, maybe next year - but he will!

And he will learn a lot of modern soccer (not because the german soccer is such modern, but Mr. Favre can teach) and will be back in the USA in the national team.

Greatings from Berlin,
Minmax

Posted by: Hertha Minmax | January 16, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

oh, and Goffster- any word what DCU/MLS's share of a sell on might be?

Posted by: northzax | January 16, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

As I understand it, a sell-on clause is usually 25 percent of the deal, so if Hertha sold Arguez to, say, Bayern someday for $100 million (kidding), DCU/MLS would receive $25 million of it.

Posted by: Goff | January 16, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"The fact that they want him would make me keep him alone."

Strong-arming players into staying for low pay is a terrible way to recruit young, talented players, and a great way to destroy morale.

DC is doing the right thing, absolutely. I do believe that Michael Bradley was sold for too low a price (and considering the Metrostars got nothing-- no allocation for him), but a big part of that was Lalas being an absolute fool, cutting Bradley loose after firing his father. Unlike Arguez, Bradley was a major contributor to a decent team that made the playoffs (Bradley scored the goal that put them in the playoffs, in fact), but it was time for young Bradley to go, and it was a smart move to let him follow his career.

DC basically loses nothing with Arguez, who didn't play a second in MLS, and gains not only a decent bit of money, but a lot of respect from promising young Americans, who won't be afraid that signing a deal with DC will ruin their chances of moving to a more prestigious, well-paying league. The idea that DC United should play second-fiddle, feeding good young players to European leagues, might bother some of the more hubristic elements among DC's supporters, but IT IS A GOOD THING to treat players with respect.

Over time, selling young players can be a profit center for MLS and DCU. Selling him ensures that there will more Bryan Arguezes.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Maybe it was a psychological thing with Arguez at DC. Maybe he saw himself so deep in the roster that it affected his performance. Maybe that wasn't the case with the U20s and he performed well there, surrounded by players with whom he was more comfortable. Don't underestimate the mental part of the game.

Posted by: I-270, Exit 1 | January 16, 2008 3:58 PM | Report abuse

350k is BARELY worth your time in negotiating the deal. So DCU and Hertha must have a fundamental difference of opinion on how good the guy is or can be, else DCU would never part with the player for that.

Posted by: S | January 16, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

Do you guys think that Hertha' seeing something in Arguez despite no playing time for the first team shows that the US still lacks that Key of knowing who possesses good talent and not?

Posted by: Bolivian DC Fan | January 16, 2008 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Mastondon is right: Look how the Revs look after greedily holding players who want to leave (Shalrie Joseph, Dempsey, Twellman). What young player's going to want to sign with that club? On the other hand, DC United keeps a solid reputation for winning matches AND advancing their players' careers (Nelsen, Convey, Perkins, and now Arguez) while making a few sheckells in the process.

And the argument that DCU's FO can't draft leaves me cold also. What MLS club who picks as low as United is doing better?

C'mon, people, a little perspective, please!

Posted by: Jacked up | January 16, 2008 4:10 PM | Report abuse

-------

Derby reject a second(third?) bid from the Israeli team for Feilhaber. The soccernet article also mentioned that there was interest from MLS for his services, so looks like Benny is on his way from England.

-------

If this is the case how about a DCU bid for his services?

Posted by: Chris | January 16, 2008 4:15 PM | Report abuse

For a little more perspective, this fall Hertha sold Kevin Prince Boateng, a troubled German U-21 international who rarely cracked their starting 11, for $10 Million (7.4M Euro).

Favre says Arguez will be in the first 11. $350k??? Hello??? It's an inconceivable paltry sum. This is why I say DC look stupid.

Posted by: DCU | January 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Quote -I've seen your / our Arguez in just one game, a friendly game.
But I saw:
- he has a very good eye for the empty place, and teammates, he can read a game and can quickly analyse game situations.

End Quote


This quote really struck me. This is what average Euroe fans, who grew up for the game find most important and look for in players.

Here in the US many still do not comprehend this. English CCC/bottom EPL run and gun, press frenetically at high speed with athletes who run like crazy is what we can relate to unfortunately. The culture is changing, but not nearly fast enough fo rmy liking. A lot of this is the lack of culture, knowledge, pathetic coaches and brainwashing by the hype of everything English that we get here.

This is exactly what I, and it seems Jamie Z saw also in Rochester verusus Argentina.
Soccer instinct and brains. We are getting more, but we need better understanding and better evaluators. We let a lot of these guys get away for brutes because we simply don't know any better.

Posted by: TK | January 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"I hope the kid does real well, but I did not hear anyone clamouring for him to get PT until an all knowing euro club said they liked him."
-- jgildea


You can say that again!

The same guys who brought us Fred, Emilio & a Supporter's Shield last season now have simply no eye for talent?

Please, tell us how do you find your way home each night?


Posted by: Kire | January 16, 2008 4:26 PM | Report abuse

Mastondon is right: Look how the Revs look after greedily holding players who want to leave (Shalrie Joseph, Dempsey, Twellman). What young player's going to want to sign with that club? On the other hand, DC United keeps a solid reputation for winning matches AND advancing their players' careers (Nelsen, Convey, Perkins, and now Arguez) while making a few sheckells in the process.

And the argument that DCU's FO can't draft leaves me cold also. What MLS club who picks as low as United is doing better?

C'mon, people, a little perspective, please!

Posted by: Jacked up | January 16, 2008 04:10 PM
-------------------------------------------

Couldn't agree with you more. Treating your players like crap is a temporary way to increase you results while stunting the long term.

Posted by: alex | January 16, 2008 4:28 PM | Report abuse

DCU,

Yes, they sold Kevin-Prince Boateng for 7.4m Euros.

To be fair though, they sold him to Tottenham. BPL teams pay grossly inflated rates for players on potential alone. Tottenham doubly so, especially since that club has some sort of perverse need to become a major club in Arsenal's style.

Posted by: B.A. | January 16, 2008 4:32 PM | Report abuse

I don't know when $350,000 became peanuts. Arguez is 19 and totally unproven as a professional player. Look around the world: a couple hundred thou is good business for a player like that.

When the rumor started, I was a little upset at essentially having a player around for no reason at all. However, $350K is actually a great deal (compare to the $100K for Michael Bradley, who was a starter in the Swamp). Plus, as was pointed out several times before this, we appear much more reasonable than New England for anyone looking at MLS as a stepping stone (something that, like it or not, is the reality of the situation).

Posted by: Chest Rockwell | January 16, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

Hmmmm, I seem to remember last year's offseason left every DC Fan wondering what kind of team we would have when the CONCACAF matches came around.

And it worked out "ok", enough to be the first team to repeat winning the Supporter's Sheild.

So let's all make an effort to freak out + dis DC's Front Office, because it worked last year.

Posted by: savannahfan | January 16, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"Any conspiracy theorists think Arguez is/was a goldbricker ?"

No. We think that he was sent by George Bush to massage Angela Merkel's shoulders during stressful G-8 meetings. Isn't the Washington-Berlin connection obvious?

Posted by: Tinfoil hat and underwear | January 16, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

The same guys who brought us Fred, Emilio & a Supporter's Shield last season now have simply no eye for talent?

Please, tell us how do you find your way home each night?

----------

No kidding. How many college kids skip MLS (or a year or two of college0 and go Bundesliga as 'sure things'. Heck, this is the same league with teams that played Jovan Kirovski and Frankie Hejduk in Champions League.

Let's be honest, even when our most talented domestic players go to Bundesliga (McBride, Donovan, Twellman, Mathis, Feilhaber, etc) they rarely set the world on fire. We are being way too hasty to say that DC overlooked Arguez.

Don't forget ... this is the same Bundesliga where you have to go and pay your dues and young players have to satisfy their coach that they have proper technique and understand his system before they sniff a minute of first team time. Oh - and usually that coach gets fired and the guy that replaces him doesn't speak english and could care less about the American on his roster. And heaven forbid the player cop an attitude or show any sign of non-conformity. That will land him in the doghouse forever.

Arguez may go to Hertha and play in the Regionalliga for 3 seasons (where he can develop the way Lancos, Thomas, Casey, et al did).

Or maybe he will be even better than Cherundolo, Reyna, Dooley, Berhalter or Sanneh were.

We should be able to come to a consensus in 4 - 5 years.

Posted by: Liverpool_SC | January 16, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Stating the obvious to all the folks saying how good United looks compared with New England, and that it'll help United's reputation with young players in the long run --

Young players sign with the league and are subject to the draft. At the time Arguez signed with MLS, he just as easily could have ended up with the Revs, so the fact that we're willing to transfer our players will matter very little with players so long as teams like the Revs demand king's ransoms.

As for this particular deal, I think it depends on what the transfer fee is. If Goff is right, I think United is selling for less than it should. Then again, if the team's thinking is that he's still another couple of years away from being a starter, it makes sense to sell him now given that he only has three years left on the contract, rather than let him leave on a free transfer.

Posted by: argo0 | January 16, 2008 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The thing here in Berlin is: We have a coach, Lucien Favre - no relation to Brett, who just wants speedy players. Speed, speed and more speed. And Arguez impressed him in this department. Expect him to get a first team chance very soon. And then we see what he has to offer. Favre is immune to the star system. He just plays the players fitting in his philosophy.

Posted by: aidschai | January 16, 2008 4:56 PM | Report abuse

argo0, you're not totally off the mark or anything, but the trend in MLS is to move away from the draft and more to local control.

The mess with New England's success in filing a discovery claim on a player who came on once for a week's trial, and who didn't expect or want a discovery claim, creates the opportunity for smarter clubs to identify and "discover" good young players who might need seasoning in MLS but whose preference might be to go to Europe. Given the choice between trialing at DC or New England, such a player might recognize that the long term consequences at DC are much more positive than at New England. Playing fair with Arguez, instead of very possibly haggling Arguez out of an excellent opportunity, makes DC a much more appealing option to certain players.

There are some ideas that are, I suspect, irritating some DC fans:

1. That DC is like all other MLS teams, and unlike respectable clubs in the rest of the world, in the fact that they can't stockpile players who are long-term projects.

2. That $350k is a significant enough amount of money to DCU that it would lead them to sell a player short for positive cash flow.

Selling Arguez is the right thing to do for DC's sake and for Arguez's. No MLS team is big time enough that it can pass up an offer for a player that its coaches just didn't rate because they have a hunch that maybe he is worth more. Especially when that amount of money represents a significant percentage of annual payroll, or gameday operating expenses.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 5:02 PM | Report abuse

i would be very happy of dc united becomes percieved as boca juniors or corinthians or club america is perceived: the stand-out team in an otherwise unattractive league. if we get that kind of reputation (by supplying the bigger leagues with players like arguez) then quality north and south american players will want to be here in order to get noticed. and they will play in a way that will be noticable (emilio? what?). lets keep developing that reputation. this move is good for arguez and dcu

Posted by: moses | January 16, 2008 5:03 PM | Report abuse

Yes, but not all signings come from the draft.

Maybe part of the explanation is that Arguez is more of a holding mid and not a true D mid. When we drafted him, we were planning on playing a 3-5-2, but we changed to a 4-4-2. Maybe the coaching staff couldn't find a good way to get him on the field in a 4-4-2? Hard to say since most of us never saw him play ever!

Posted by: ff | January 16, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Doesn't this presume that Soehn is wrong and the Germans are right?

Just because they're European doesn't mean they are better scouts of talent than we are.

Posted by: Sean | January 16, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

This is disturbing. I guy doesn't get a sniff at first team action when BC is having a horrid year and Clyde Simms has not yet established his claim to the position, yet he's good enough for a Bundesliga team to take a flyer on? Look, you can rationalize what happened, but the DCU front office has some apparent weaknesses that cannot be fixed by finding second tier LA talent because with the international roster spot limits, you can't create serviceable depth in this league with foreign players. You need to develop that depth with US players - Arguez was one. However, since Jeff Carroll, Dom Mediate and Stephen DeRoux were ahead of Arguez on the depth chart, I certainly expect DCU to take the CONCACAF Champion's Cup without question. :)

Posted by: griffin1108 | January 16, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Not sure how much the U-20 World Cup helped as he did not play a single minute. However, he did play in the warm ups as a few people posted above. Good for him though! He didn't appear to be in DC's immediate plans, so this sounds like a better opportunity. As far as DC looking "dumb," let's at least wait until the kid pans out for Hertha Berlin before we criticize DCU.

Posted by: Greifie | January 16, 2008 5:22 PM | Report abuse

I think it says a lot that Soehn did not deem Arguez good enough to get one minute of playing time at any point in the season. Even when guys like Benny and Fred had minor injuries, DC turned to other reserves like Moose, Mediate, and DeRoux, but never Arguez. I saw him in one Reserve match and he did not have a "really good eye for empty space", nor did he "quickly analyze game situations". He is not currently a very good player. Let's put that $350K towards Gomez's contract.

Posted by: DCUMD | January 16, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Count me in with thre crowd that doesn't really like this deal. Goff has reported on this story all along and it went from he's just working out to he has really impressed them. $350,000 for a prospect like him is way too low given the information we have been presented. If he really impressed them, why not ask for more money. On its face this deal looks bad to me. Why is he impressing HB coaches but not ours? Is MLS talent that good? What I hear on this board is a lot of rationalization. But again, at the heart of the matter is the incongruity of the dual ideas that he can play well enough to impress a good Bundesliga team but not a good MLS.

Posted by: AlexandriaDan | January 16, 2008 5:30 PM | Report abuse

about fifteen posts back... .TK. the BEST post !!!! ....perfect.

Posted by: frank | January 16, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Willkommen, meine deutschen Fußballbrüder und Schwestern. Seien Sie bitte zum Herr Arguez freundlich. Unsere nationale Mannschaft braucht ihn.

Posted by: DCAustinite | January 16, 2008 5:38 PM | Report abuse

Why is this a blow to the ego of some DC fans?

Like it or not, $350k is significant revenue to DC United. As favorably as MLS' growth compares to other leagues, even the lowly NHL dwarfs MLS. Every revenue stream for the NHL is far higher than the comparative MLS revenue stream-- even the Versus deal brings in twelve times the money of the various MLS television contracts. And DC United may be high profile, but there isn't a shirt sponsor and a stadium is not only years away, it isn't even on the drawing board.

$350k for an asset that currently has almost no value, and is years away from any potential return, is something DC can't refuse. Setting aside the issue of fairness to Arguez, DC United doesn't operate on the scale of major clubs, who can spend years and lots of money on youngsters who will probably never see first team action. It's certainly not a stupid decision for team that operates well in the red, and is at least four or five years from even the POTENTIAL of profitability, to sell a guy who doesn't even make the bench for a nice return on almost no investment.

The fact that MLS teams are basically small-time operations shouldn't surprise anyone, but evidently it comes as a total shock to some of you.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

" On its face this deal looks bad to me. Why is he impressing HB coaches but not ours? Is MLS talent that good? What I hear on this board is a lot of rationalization. "

Maybe Soehn isn't a good scout.

Or maybe Soehn sees Arguez as a player who won't fit into his system.

Or maybe Arguez is personally so unhappy that he is a detriment to the team.

Or maybe $350k is a good return for a team with limited revenue in a relatively minor soccer league.

I think some of you play too much Football Manager to recognize the limits of MLS and DC United. It's not a system that is set up for long-term reserve development that evenually yields transfer revenue. This is a smart move on all counts, except for the more grandiose quarters of DC fans.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

Off the field issues:

Consistently showing up late to practices, sometimes not in good shape from the previous night.

No matter how good you are, DCU is too good or an organization to tolerate that, and that's the most prominent reason why Arguez never got a sniff of the field.

Posted by: Nick | January 16, 2008 5:47 PM | Report abuse

$350K??? For a national team player? United got took, plain and simple. Even if the coaching stuff blew it with him, overlooking that the kid is ready to play, the bigger sin is the paltry transfer fee. MLS is going to have to start realizing the value of these players.

$350K is significant? Something that United can use? When you realize that United gets 2/3 or 3/4 of that money, it adds up to less than 1/20 of what United brings in on any given game night. It's nothing. Maybe it's a good price for a front office intern, but not for a kid who with national team stamped on his future itinerary. A Bundesliga team pays much more than that for most contracts they buy.

I'm delighted for Arguez, but I'm really bothered by this. Why are we selling our contracts that cheaply? It may seem like a good number, when you consider what most MLS talent earns, but that's not the yardstick to use here. We have to know what these kids are worth to the European teams. That's the market we're playing in, when they're looking at our players.

If he has the potential Hertha sees, we should have held on to him. He'd be worth more to United than the $250k or so that we'll get. The team will spend at least half that money on a bunch of players without his potential. So, what did we really get?

Posted by: Fisch Fry | January 16, 2008 5:49 PM | Report abuse

@DCAustinite

Danke!
Wir werden ihn gut aufnehmen und wenn er sich professionell verhält, wird das US-Team ihn bekommen!

We will be very friendly to Arguez and if its behaviour will be professional, you get him back to the US-Team!

@TK
sorry, I won't struck you! But you're right:
The british "kick and rush" is dead. There are 16 teams qualified for the EM - not the british!

Posted by: Hertha Minmax | January 16, 2008 5:52 PM | Report abuse

Quick show of hands on how many people actually saw Arguez play last year.

Show of hands on how many people saw him play multiple times.

Anyone who was not raising there hand on that second question has no standing to comment on the FOs ability to evaluate Arguez's talent.

Arguez has a lot of talent but it is still raw talent. Last year he had flashes of the player that he could become with long streches of numerous tactical, mental and confidence letdowns. This is not suprising for a player who is a project. He is a young player and in the right environment will hopefully reach his potential.

DC receives a large chunk of money from the transfer of a player who was not good enough to crack their lineup. If you had seen Arguez play last year you would understand that he was not polished enough to play. The reserve system in MLS does not play enough games, have the infrastructure or the daily competition to develope project players. The trade is a win win.

Posted by: Has actually seen Arguez play | January 16, 2008 5:54 PM | Report abuse

For once, Mastodon Juan is making a lot of sense.

Posted by: DCBird | January 16, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

I"M A UNITED FAN AND I"M HAPPY!

Just because someone else holds onto this kid doesn't guarnatee success. Just because we held on to him doesn't mean he would blossom into anything greater or not prove that he can either.

One team is valuing an asset at a higher value than DC does. That value is enough to get DC and the player to think its worth the risk to go somewhere else. It's also enough where DC can say - we can get this for a player that didn't start for us - ok.

Think about Arsenal and Barcelona on Henry - Arsenal got the greatest out of that player. Barcelona paid a premium on him to get him at the peak or past of his production, meanwhile - Arsenal got the money to spend on younger projects where they can buy more players than one and hopefully see a greater return/spread out the risk.

What I'm trying to say is that since Hertha loves Arguez and Tommy doesn't then clearly we need Alexi Lalas to hire Arsene Wenger to be our manager and our reserves will win the Carling Cup and we'll lift the Premiership Trophy (WHAT?!)

Posted by: UVA-United | January 16, 2008 5:59 PM | Report abuse

"Has actually seen Arguez play" -- this guy has it exactly right.

I know that it might make some of your brains explode, but DC United is set up to win as many first team games as possible. They're very good at that.

Unlike the famous clubs throughout the world, who have the resources to do many things at once, DC United is not set up to nurse young, raw talent at the expense of winning first team games.

I think the youth system is the next important step-- not the "put a DC United shirt on the best players who really play for travel teams" youth team, but them "identify them and spend a few years to train them to play the DC United way" youth system.

Having a productive reserve team, not just a way for players 12-18 to stay fit, but a way to develop slightly older players and accustom them to the DC United style, is priority # 52378. So to get $350k for a guy who didn't see a minute outside the reserves is fantastic.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 6:06 PM | Report abuse

I realize Tommy wasn't going to use him -- at least not so long as our middies stay healthy. I still say we sold him too cheaply. The profit we get on his salary dump doesn't compare with the money United will spend trying to find someone else with that potential. That's why top European teams are willing to pay even more for someone like Arguez, and why United should have demanded more. Don't forget -- United is an old team. It won't be long before the team will have to replace our starting middies.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 16, 2008 6:13 PM | Report abuse

You guys are smoking crack if you dont think that DC isnt making out like a bandit.

This guy is a kid. He just turned 19. You guys build him up like hes the best player the US has ever produced. He didnt play a minute in the U20 WC. He didnt play a minute for DC United. All of a sudden he is worth 1, 2, 3 million?

Do any of you have any idea how the transfer market with kids work? When Michael Bradley went to Heerenveen, he made 6 starts out of 21 appearances in his 2nd year. Michael was a regular in the Metrostars lineup. Only this past year (his 3rd year) has he regularly been starting.

As for Hertha, there is no way that he is beating out Carlos Silva who played for Brazil in the Copa America, Gilberto Melo who played for Brazil in WC2006, Piszczek who plays for Poland, and Dárdai who used to play for Hungry. There's just no way, Arguez has no international pedigree. Sure the coach is going to say that he can get first team minutes, etc...But he wont get a sniff. He'll play in the Reginaa for a few years and if he pans out, well then he'll pan out. Arguez has always had potential, thats why he signed an Gen-X contract...

Most of the kids, and i emphasize kids, who make transfers like this never crack the first team. However, when a larger club has the resources to develop a kid and potentially make a killing off him if they pan out...they do. DCU doesnt have that luxury right now and wont for the next 5-10 years. DC is making the right move here. They should continue to build their reputation as a club that can feed some of the other leagues until they can spend the time, money, and resources to develop projects like this on their own.

I wish the kid the best of luck...our staff doesnt deserve flack for this one.

Posted by: strago | January 16, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse

75% of United fans on this thread "get it," and state it better than me, so my hat is off.

For the hold-outs: DC United is certainly the best run team-- personnel-wise-- in MLS. (I may be of the opinion that lately they are a little too aggressive in negotiations with veterans, an approach that contributed to the slump early in this decade, but whether that has any effect on this particular generation remains to be seen.)

But as good as DC United is at certain things, they simply are not built for turning promising but marginal players into contributors. Guys like Burch and Boswell, who are already competent but limited, and are already most of the way along their learning curve, suit DC United very well. I suspect it's tempting to believe your clippings and pretend that DC United is essentially a US version of a major club, but it ain't so. They're great at what they do, and the fact that the management of the team recognizes what is rightfully outside the present scope of the team shouldn't make anyone angry with management.

That's no consolation, I'm sure, to the DC fans who earnestly believe their team to be something like Chelsea or Barcelona, just in a less significant league, but they need to recognize reality.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

If a fraction of this money goes toward putting a proper infrastructure in place that will help to better identify and train more young players, its all good.

Posted by: d, dc | January 16, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

The only thing that can be said with confidence is that United is willing to let Arguez go. Everything else is speculation with limited information.

Some will say the offer is too low, and others will say it is a good return-on-investment. Some will say the United coaches didn't know what they had or how to use his talent, and others will argue that Hertha doesn't know what they are buying.

As a GA, United wasn't paying Arguez's salary so there's no cap benefit there, except for the fee being used to buydown other players hit to the salary cap.

It is interesting that the league isn't stopping this from happening. Seems like they (MLS office) would want to keep a GA in the league long enough to completely washout or make it big.

We'll know in less than 12 months if Hertha got a great deal. Any time frame longer than that and there's too many variables to say what might have happened (good or bad) if United had kept him around.

Posted by: Eire Bier | January 16, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

Is $350,000 really too low?

United just sold their starting keeper for $700,000. Isn't 50% of that for a part time reserve team starter a pretty fair price?

Posted by: Kim | January 16, 2008 6:38 PM | Report abuse

yes Mastodon. Hopefully Revs will implode from the inside due to player frustration. They won't pick up Noonan's option either. Wells Thompson won't help them win Championships.

I saw Arguez just once, but since there was some buzz about him from fans who know stuff, I watched. He was good. Very composed. Made things look easy. Good passes. Released our old friend Casal on a breakaway I think. Stuffed. Yes one can see these things from just watching one game.

I'm a little concerned about our team selling our best young players, and being party-poopers. :)

Posted by: scar | January 16, 2008 6:47 PM | Report abuse

I may be alone here (after a hundred comments it seems as though I must be), but I'm having trouble getting excited about transfer money....whether it's $350,000 or $2,000,000.

Why? I guess I don't see all of the benefits with such a restrictive salary cap. I would like to see this money help with the acquisition of players, but I don't see how it can with such a low cap. Additionally, we didn't free up any cap room since Arguez was G-A.
What am I missing?

Posted by: Jared | January 16, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Good point, Kim. 50% of the cash we got for Perkins (who won MLS Keeper of the Year award in '06) ain't bad.

Also just want to note that we're past 100 posts during the offseason. Pretty good, insiders!

Posted by: David | January 16, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

103rd!

Posted by: Joe Doc | January 16, 2008 7:22 PM | Report abuse

103rd!

Posted by: Joe Doc | January 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Report abuse

Steven-

Ever find out why Dallas was allowed to trade Ruiz to LA straight up instead of the three-way deal proposed last month with DC giving up Boswell but getting Cannon in return?

Seems unfair to DC that the MLSFO put the kibosh on a deal that would help DC out. Instead they help out San Jose and Houston whilst taking away a better MLS keeper from DC.

Thx,

Jay!

Posted by: JayRockers! | January 16, 2008 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I knew Hertha was a pathetic excuse for a football club, but they are paying for reserve team scabs and thinking they can contribute to the first team in the short term?
Sounds like DCU made a good move. Hopefully he'll develop into a National team force and be sold to a real club in Bundesliga or elsewhere.

Go Bayern!

Posted by: papa bear | January 16, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

It pains me to say it but Mastodon is absoultely correct (and I rarely agree with him). Great deal for DCU.

I find it it funny that folks are whining about our crappy front office because they don't know what they are doing.

Like someone else said earlier, if you think that, well then the b*tch set me up cause you are smoking crack.

This is the same front office that has gotten us all those trophies over the years. They deserve the benefit of the doubt people.

Posted by: steve-o | January 16, 2008 8:28 PM | Report abuse

There's a lot of apples and oranges being thrown around. The price paid by a Norwegian club for a goalie without much more upside, or by a Dutch club for a young player with modest athletic gifts, versus the money paid by a Bundesliga side for an up-and-coming player in the national team system, with much athletic ability.

You can't look at Perkins or Bradley, and say that United got fair value by comparison. Those comparisons don't hold up. It's a different market. That's all I've been saying. If we got $350K from a Norwegian side or a Portuguese for Arguez, I'd say "Bravo" -- from Hertha, we could have asked for more, I think.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Report abuse

Lot's of good arguments for why this isn't such a bad idea, but I just can't seem to like it. I think we're giving up a first round draft pick, U-20 (maybe future full MNT) player with size and skill for too small an amount. Everyone that is bolstering their arguments by looking at other tranfers including the amount we got for Perkins is making a mistake in my mind. I think this move needs to be judged on the potential of Arquez to develop into an outstanding player. Isn't that what HB is bankiing on? How many time's has Celtic tried to get SJ? Didn't Preston just add 1M$ to their offer for Twellman? That's Twellman for God's sake. I think we should have said no, waited to see what Arquez could contribute to club and country this year and then considered offers for him. Heck, saying know may have caused HB to come back with a better offer. Or perhaps even spurred some other club into action for fear of missing out. In holding this opinion I'm not saying that DCU or MLS front office is worthless or that the coaching staff is terrible, nor am I trying to say that MLS is LaLiga. I just think (actually I know) that everyone makes mistakes in life and I think this is one of them. Only time will tell who is reading this correctly.

Posted by: AlexandriaDan | January 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Report abuse

62 to 64 days to the next home match!

Posted by: Curious | January 16, 2008 8:50 PM | Report abuse

Slightly OT, but looks like FIFA and the G14 have kissed and made up:

http://thesportsbizblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/fifa-and-european-clubs-sign-peace-deal.html

Posted by: Juan-John | January 16, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

So ummm... why is everyone holding on to this $350k figure like it came from either Hertha or DCU? It was a guess by Goff. For all we know he's being sold for $1m or a bag of very nice soccer balls. Or *gasp* maybe DC will decide to hold on to him. I haven't seen a definitive answer anywhere, so chill out.

Posted by: AlecW81 | January 16, 2008 9:30 PM | Report abuse

Heck, saying know [sic] may have caused HB to come back with a better offer.
------------------------------------------

How do we know this is not exactly what happened? Are you assuming that $350K was HB's initial offer? For all we know, maybe the original offer was $200K, and DCU held out for $350K.

Posted by: 22201 | January 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Report abuse

Someone earlier posted that the 2/3 of the transfer fee for Arguez was equal to less than 1/20 of one DCU's home game income. I'm a math guy, so here's those numbers. 2/3 of $350,00 is about $240,000 (rounding for simplicity). $240,000 is 1/20 of $4.8 million. DCU gets 4.8 million income for each home game? Hmmmm.....
I'll bet $4.8 million Arguez is NOT a starter. Landy rode the bench in Germany and Arguez is going to start? (Wait a minute, that might not be the best argument...)

Posted by: boda united | January 16, 2008 9:42 PM | Report abuse

Holy moses, a brief bit about a 19 y/o bench player with unrealized potential who was just sold for a measly $350,000 generates 115 posts.

Soccer Insider Revolution . . .


Posted by: delantero | January 16, 2008 10:13 PM | Report abuse

Goffinho,

Compliments on a solid piece on Jeremiah White. This quote makes me a big fan:

"I chose a different path," he said. "I wanted to experience it all, even the rough times. At the end of the day, if you can learn 10 languages, see some remarkable places and meet some incredible people, you have added to yourself."

Posted by: delantero | January 16, 2008 10:24 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: 22201 | January 16, 2008 10:27 PM | Report abuse

Papa Bear: "I knew Hertha was a pathetic excuse for a football club, but they are paying for reserve team scabs"

WTF? "Scab"??? Are you accusing Arguez of being a strikebreaker?

If English isn't your native language, I apologize, but if it is, you need to learn what "scab" means when it used to refer to people taking jobs.

Posted by: Mastodon Juan | January 16, 2008 10:37 PM | Report abuse

HEYYY!!!!

ANYONE READING THIS, HELP ME.

IF ROGER ESPINOZA IS STILL AVAILABLE, WE NEED TO PICK HIM UP IN THE DRAFT.

What DC most lacks is a midfielder in the style of Justin Mapp. A season from now, when gomez is no longer with us, we'll need some real brilliance when it comes to dribbling.

With Fred, Simms, and Olsen, we have an attacking midfielder, a holding destroyer, and a center midfielder. What this tandem lacks is some slicing and dicing.

Forget defense. We know we're not perfect, but we're not getting Eric Brunner, Andy Iro, Julius James, or any of the better defenders.

What we can get is some brilliance, and a championship team.

Posted by: iagofart | January 16, 2008 10:52 PM | Report abuse

""What DC most lacks is a midfielder in the style of Justin Mapp""

You mean an overhyped young player who hasn't done much?

Posted by: delanteor | January 16, 2008 11:18 PM | Report abuse

TO boda united:

Here's my math. DC gets 19-20,000 at each game. Tickets average in excess of $20, probably at least $25. For every ticket told there's probably at least one beer or soda, but probably an average of two. Then, there's food. And the occasional merchandise purchase. Every ticket therefore brings more than $35. So, 1,000 people (1/20) at each game would spend more than what United got for Arguez. Based on that math, 1/20 would be a conservative estimate of the gross receipts. To be truthful, I don't know how much of the concessions go to United. Still, even just tickets and merchandise sales alone probably brings us pretty close to that fraction, especially with the hike in ticket prices.

That's not profit, of course. They have to pay rent, salaries and a whole bunch of other overhead, but they'll have a lot of costs in trying to find talent to replace last year's no. 1 draft pick.

My point is that the money they're getting might seem significant, as a percentage of the salary cap, but it's really chump change in the bigger picture.

Posted by: Fisch Fry | January 16, 2008 11:30 PM | Report abuse

Also, if Hertha is interested, I'm guessing he's a bit more skilled than Mediate, Dyachenko, or Jeff Carroll, or Wilson, or whomever else we might have as top reserve midfielder. Makes me think we could have used Arguez as a sub, or insurance if there's an injury...With Brian Carroll gone, I'd assumed that Arguez would be the top reserve midfielder. Now, our options don't look so good.

We're going down south for a goalie, a defender and a striker. Maybe, we should try to find another midfielder, too?

Posted by: FIsch Fry | January 16, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse

35 * 1000 = 35,000

Posted by: I passed math in High School | January 16, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse

Dropped a zero, huh?

OK, I'm a dunce, but it's still chump change.

Posted by: Dropped a zero, huh? | January 16, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse

350 K = Boswell, Perkins, Carroll and Simms, I believe.

""$350K is significant? Something that United can use? When you realize that United gets 2/3 or 3/4 of that money, it adds up to less than 1/20 of what United brings in on any given game night.""

Posted by: delantero | January 17, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse

By the way, if Derby wants to sell Feilhaber, I'd gladly take him here at DC.

Posted by: delantero | January 17, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse

Can I get DP money? I think I'd like Washington. Burch and me on the wings? Fuhgeddaboudit! Just give us the MLS Cup right now....

Posted by: Benny | January 17, 2008 3:05 AM | Report abuse

To delantero - I did say it's a big when compared to the salaries United pays, but it's a small fraction of the revenues or total costs in a year. They could afford those salaries with or without the $250K they'll get. It's the cap that gets in the way of $$ signings, not cash on hand.

Posted by: Fisch Fry | January 17, 2008 3:10 AM | Report abuse

United gets zilch from concessions, and I think gets $1 per parking pass. that is why we are getting screwed. we need a stadium. zzzzzzzz

Posted by: steve-o | January 17, 2008 7:57 AM | Report abuse

Thanks for that link to the article on Jeremiah White.

For a black player, particularly an American, to go into Serbia and play - of is accord, mind you - shows this guy has blue steel 'nads. That is a brutal environment for players of color. He seems smart enough to have known what it was like going in, and still did it. Amazing.

Landycakes can't even sniff this guy's jock.

With his proletarian pedigree (i.e. no "sexy" elite clubs) he appear to have seen and done it all. That is experience that even our best gringo MLS players who have never roughed it overseas cannot fathom.

If nothing else, he gets at least a cap with the USMNT. Between him and someone like Landycakes, White has greater career options - think of how much he learns, in terms of playing style and approach, tactics (i.e. making do with humble rosters), etc. Sounds like great preparation for an eventual managerial career to me.

A toast to Jeremiah White. Prost!

Posted by: Erick | January 17, 2008 8:06 AM | Report abuse

Goff,

Great article on White and soccer in general!

I didn't even know this kid existed and now I cant wait to see him play. It sounds like we need to get Arlen Specter to a few DC United games.

Posted by: Southeasterner | January 17, 2008 8:40 AM | Report abuse

What a surprise...DCU sells young talent so they can chase some South American no one has heard of...this club's ridiculous strategy is getting old.

Posted by: Buryyourduke | January 17, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse

What a surprise...DCU sells young talent so they can chase some South American no one has heard of...this club's ridiculous strategy is getting old.
-----------------------
Glad I'm not the only one with that take on things. But not surprised. Haven't had any confidence in DC's judgment of talent since they looked at and passed on DDeRosario, dismissing him as "an ok A-league player".

Posted by: RSF | January 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Glad I'm not the only one with that take on things. But not surprised. Haven't had any confidence in DC's judgment of talent since they looked at and passed on DDeRosario, dismissing him as "an ok A-league player".
---------------------------
Well, it's almost like DC United has a reverse discrimination thing going against American talent. It's going to keep backfiring on them. If I wanted to watch a team full of South Americans I've never heard of I can watch the Guatemalan league on Gol.

Posted by: Buryyourduke | January 17, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Hey,

it is amazing to read your comments. informative and funny.
In berlin we look forward to get this kid. He played an amazing match against rapid vienna in a friendly game.

It really seems that u guys have a huge soccer talent broad base. In your schools, collages and Universities u got quite a lot athletic soccer players. But this draft system -which works for football or ice hockey- doesent really work for soccer.

i hope that Arugez will not follow the example of landon donovan. He played in germany but he was rubbish.

Greetz

Posted by: Karim from Berlin, Germany | January 19, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse

fUK the haters mooks...
good luck in germany

Posted by: Brian | January 29, 2008 11:27 PM | Report abuse

yea my bryan....you are amazing and will do amazing things in Germany.

DC misses you...

B

Posted by: Brittany | February 2, 2008 6:33 PM | Report abuse

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