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DCU-Cruz Azul Video

Take a look.....


By Steve Goff  |  October 22, 2008; 9:56 AM ET
Categories:  D.C. United  
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Next: Bye-Bye, Becks?

Comments

The very first sequence was a shaky moment for Thorpe - clearly indecisive - that reminded me too much of ZW...

Posted by: 22206 | October 22, 2008 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Typical trip to Mexico...

Posted by: jgildea | October 22, 2008 10:13 AM | Report abuse

Who is in the box on the ground in the second goal? If that's a DC player and Cruz Azul continues to play, I would consider that to be completely distasteful. If not, that was offsides. Ridiculous calls all around.

Posted by: JohnR | October 22, 2008 10:22 AM | Report abuse

that's Martinez on the ground. That was the biggest joke of a game I've ever seen in my life.

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse

I don't really know what an appeal would do, I don't think there's a need to have Crayton or Thorpe available for the last match of the tournament for DCU, but that ref is scandalous.

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 10:29 AM | Report abuse

Even the announcers on this game said, "este fue un grave error por el arbitro" or this was a big mess up by the ref.

They were also complaining on when Crayton held the ball and was yelling at the sideline ref he held the ball in his possession for 11 sec. Whats the rule, 6 sec? right?

Posted by: Bolivian DC Fan | October 22, 2008 10:30 AM | Report abuse

Did I hear the announcers complaining that the 2nd should've been offside? I'm sorry, but Martinez is part of the play until the ref says so. This happened earlier this season in Europe when a player rolled off the field, by the goal, thinking that meant he was out of play.

Posted by: RK | October 22, 2008 10:40 AM | Report abuse

The second was one of the worst violations of the "fair play" rule, doctrinve, initaitive, or whatever it is called.

Cruz Azul started that play with their keeper well into their defensive third after DCU gained possesion and cleared and there was no rapid counter on CAs part. There was ample opportunity to stop play without giving up a clear advantage (at least duirng the first half of their possesion). They then taking double advantage by using Martinez to hold their forwards on side while up a goal late int eh game and also now effectively up two men. The soccer gods should make CA play with bags on their heads in order to hide their shame.

Maybe some of my fellow MIT alums can find a way to set up a resonance frequency with those f-ing train horns that causes the stadium to crumble.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

I don't really know what an appeal would do, I don't think there's a need to have Crayton or Thorpe available for the last match of the tournament for DCU, but that ref is scandalous.

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 10:29 AM
================

A successful appeal would give us a keeper on the bench for when the starting GK is red carded during the player introductions.

Posted by: I-270, Exit 1 | October 22, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse

Maybe some of my fellow MIT alums can find a way to set up a resonance frequency with those f-ing train horns that causes the stadium to crumble.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2008 10:45 AM
----------------------

Or maybe they can set them up to emit the Brown Note!

Posted by: DE | October 22, 2008 10:52 AM | Report abuse

The very first sequence was a shaky moment for Thorpe - clearly indecisive - that reminded me too much of ZW...
-----
Yah, except that Thorpe looked as good or better in his first 29 minutes of first team play than ZW looked after 10 whole league games.

Posted by: 20010 | October 22, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

I say screw it. Sign Brianna Scurry and put her in goal. She'll give up 8 or 9 to Marathon, which might hurt CA in a tiebreaker.

Posted by: Hope Solo | October 22, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

I guarantee you KP has been on the blower with Chuck Blazer complaining about the ref. He has always believed that US teams get screwed on away CONCACAF matches and he chides MLS/USSF officiating for not returning the favor. He claims that MLS will never be able to compete on the international stage until the US officiating gives the same treatment to visiting foreign teams thae US teams get abroad.

My only question is: How is it that Houston is doing so well in this competetion and DCU is having such a shocker? The challenge to succeed for Houston was no smaller than it was for DC. Could it be that Houston went into 2009 with a better plan to deal with all the commitments they had? Could it be that the decision-makers in Houston are better at their jobs than DCU's and put together a team better suited to play in all these games? It would be justice for all if Houston wins its 3rd straight MLS Cup and surpasses DCU as MLS's most successful team. They deserve it based on how they deal with all of their challeneges. They don't tank competitions as DCU has done all year, going back to April when they tanked its game at RSL, and they put forward their best at all times.

Posted by: lgm6986 | October 22, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse

That's easy. Houston is better.

Posted by: RK | October 22, 2008 11:28 AM | Report abuse

RK - you nailed it.

Posted by: Mixter | October 22, 2008 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Pumas pull the same garbage in the 4-4 draw with Houston in Mexico City?

Personally I love the matches with Mexican clubs because they are so easy to dislike.

It's shocking Cruz Azul is on top of this table. Have they looked better than this against Saprissa and Marathon?

Posted by: Mr.Bill | October 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Agree Houston is just better right now.

Houstons coach I believe played south of the border somewhere in his day. Might add to the fact Houstons approach on the field just appears more thought out. Less wasting of energy at altitude, their defense often doesn't look as stretched etc,.

Posted by: Mr.Bill | October 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Blah blah blah blame the ref, blame the weather, blame the empty stadium... but the blame rests on DCU for stinking it up in this tournament. Amazing how upbeat most of us were about this team at the start of the season and now look at where they are. Injuries? Sure, absolutely DCU has been decimated by injuries in a way, but overall the defense has been crap, the attack has been crap, and the attitude is crap. DCU is a sinking ship in more ways than one and its really sad to watch. This is a really bad team and a bad season at this moment.

Posted by: Felix | October 22, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse

And Houston is better why? Because their technical staff is better than DCU's and therefore does a better job of acquiring players and building the team.

Posted by: lgm6986 | October 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse

Felix, if that is your real name.

your post makes no sense, it would be one thing if dc or its fans were wrong about the ref or something. You must be as blind as the ref. yes dc has had a bad season, it obvious if you dont know that by now you are either blind or dumb. its the ref we are talking about . I dont want any appeals from us. I just want that ref banned for 1 year. that would make me happy.

Posted by: dc fan | October 22, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Houston has been blessed with a strong reserve team and therefore a deep bench. Houston's coaching staff is very competent, as is DCs, but Houston has had the good fortune of relatively few major injuries this season.

As for the real subject of this conversation... Every time I think I have seen the worst CONCACAF officiating has to offer, they find a new way to disappoint me.

Posted by: Devin in Houston | October 22, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse

Or maybe they can set them up to emit the Brown Note!

Posted by: DE | October 22, 2008 10:52 AM
..........................................

The Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel dealt with the alleged Brown Note a while back. You might as well sic Bigfoot on them.

Posted by: The Jeff | October 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Report abuse

thank god dc will not embarrass mls again next year.

columbus will take care of these mexicans.

Posted by: anon | October 22, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse

Troll detected. October 22, 2008 1:03 PM

Posted by: Norton McAfee | October 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Report abuse

A successful appeal would give us a keeper on the bench for when the starting GK is red carded during the player introductions.

Posted by: I-270, Exit 1 | October 22, 2008 10:46 AM
That'd work, they'd have Peralta at their disposal who's good for at least a couple of low, diving saves with his head...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse

oops that was me.

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 1:25 PM | Report abuse

lgm6986:

Why has Houston looked better:

1. More balanced squad that has more depth and has been together much longer.
2. More experienced coaching staff.
3. More emphasis on defending (not calling them defensive-minded, but Kinnear's #1 priority is staying tight).
4. Weaker group (having seen both of them play multiple times now, I feel confident that the reserve teams we've sent out could have gotten a win over San Francisco and L.A. Firpo).

I won't begrudge Houston's success, since they are clearly just a better group of players with a better understanding, but it definitely doesn't help United that they are in by far the toughest group.

Posted by: Chest Rockwell | October 22, 2008 1:31 PM | Report abuse

Besides the fact that Houston is a better team than United, they have been relatively healthy the entire season.

When you can go 17 players deep legitimately (meaning they are starters in MLS) and you stay healthy, why wouldn't Houston be successful?

As for DC, it's pretty simple. Poor defending all year long supplimated by having key players out of the lineup for long stretches of the season.

Posted by: A Rickey | October 22, 2008 1:33 PM | Report abuse

thank god dc will not embarrass mls again next year.

columbus will take care of these mexicans.

Posted by: anon | October 22, 2008 1:03 PM

Ha ha, the joke's on you. DC will be in Champions League again next year because of the US Open Cup victory.

Posted by: Rich C | October 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Report abuse

apparently, the ref for the Montreal impact's home concacrap champions league game vs. some Honduran club last night was similarly bad, the Canadian press is reporting.

the ref in question there was Benito Archundia of Mexico. He's the same culero whom the Canadians blame for jobbing them in the 07 Gold Cup semis vs. the USA in Chicago and also some similar highway robbery in 06 World Cup qualifying, IIRC.

Tonight, in another Concacrap group game, the Houston reserves go up against the Pumas reserves. Still, I think Houston advances out of a group with San Francisco of Panama and LA Firpo of El Sal. This tournament is getting really lame.

By the way, Joe Public is out. Looked like world beaters vs. the Revs and then get knocked out, despite Uncle Jack's best efforts, I'm sure. I wonder if the Revs threw those games. They are out of form but not so bad to lose 4-0 at home to Joe Public.

Posted by: furia yanqui | October 22, 2008 1:38 PM | Report abuse

Ha ha, the joke's on you. DC will be in Champions League again next year because of the US Open Cup victory.

Posted by: Rich C | October 22, 2008 1:36 PM
Since that subject has been brought up, what is the deal? Does DC actually get an automatic berth or will they have to play-in as I've heard someone else mention previously?

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 1:45 PM | Report abuse

You know, a couple weeks ago I was pretty peeved to have spent a lot of money to see a bunch of reserves play in the Champions League matches. After watching the first half last night and then reading SI and chatters about the second half, I'm looking forward to cheering these kids on next Wednesday. Holding Cruz in Mexico to 2-0 was a great result considering all the circumstances. C'mon lads!

Posted by: Karen | October 22, 2008 1:47 PM | Report abuse

So because a player is down in the box the other team shouldn't shoot the ball to show their "sportsmanship"?

It seems like that sets an awful precedent for a lot of defenders taking random sympathy dives.

Didn't Martinez get up and start running again? Pretty weak injury.

I heard McBride was once shot three times by a Mexican fan while he was on fire with a butchers knife stuck in his calf and still came back to defense to keep Blanco from scoring on an empty goal at Azteca.

We need that kind of attitude in our players. None of this Guillardo, I got a paper cut on my pinkie finger so I can’t play, mentality.

We need athletes on our team not baseball players!

Posted by: Devils Advocate | October 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse

OK; so we agree Houston is better. The question is why? Someone answered that partially when he/she said that Houston has a deeper bench. But that is my point. Houston has a deeper team that was built to withstand the punishment of the huge number of games it was committed to play in 2008. That accomplishment is due to having a competent technical staff that is both intelligent and visionary in its approach to building the team. DCU's technical staff is neither. It failed to build a team that would be successful in all of these competitions. It made player acquisition and disposal decisions that are shockingly poor (rid of Boswell, Carroll, Perkins; acquire Wells, Neill, Gallardo). Payne and Kasper are always bleeting about how important it is to measure itself against international competition, yet it failed terribly in its pursuit of the one goal that it established as most important. Injuries are part of this process; having a competent trainer and a good secondary medical staff is all part of the technical staff mission. Hiring players who have a history of injuries (Gallardo) is the responsibility of the technical staff as well. Avoiding injuries is not "good fortune" as one blogger wrote; it is the result of intelligent planning, which DCU did not utilize. Even if you accept the notion that avoiding injuries is good fortune, didn't Branch Rickey say, "Luck is the residue of design?"

Posted by: lgm6984 | October 22, 2008 1:56 PM | Report abuse

Interesting... the game was on ESPN International in Mexico and Caribbean but FSC has rights to tourney here. I was trying to figure out why there was ESPN signage on the ad boards when ESPN America does not even mention the tournament, even on the bottom line. That's just weird distribution of an event.

Posted by: AM | October 22, 2008 2:11 PM | Report abuse

Houston is better because they've got a better system . . they start from the backline and move forward . . . they stay organized .. . and their players buy into it . .

Plus they are better thus far this year because they've been healthy and have arguably a deeper caliber of player. .

Plus DeRo, Ching, Holden, Clark, Onstad, Mulrooney, Davis, Ianni (anyone else?) have all have been part of their national teams . . .

United, on the other hand . . has . .

Posted by: delantero | October 22, 2008 2:24 PM | Report abuse

That ref should be investigated for poor decisions, and Cruz Azul just like most mexican teams don't have the decency to play the ball out when an injury has a direct effect on a play, BOO'S to both the ref and BOOZ Azul

Posted by: MOCKER | October 22, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

dadyryan - USOC takes the USA4 slot in next CCL, so they have to play in like Chivas and NE did this year. Only USA1 (MLS Cup) and USA2 (Sup Shield) go directly to group.


devils advocate - You obviously did not watch the game. Martinez was down way way before CA brought the ball back into the DC half. He was down before their keeper even distributed the ball for the scoring drive. Also, Martinez did not get up. He was out the rest of the game taking DC down to 8 for the last few minutes. Know what your talking about before spouting off. You look stupid.

Posted by: LW | October 22, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

ESPN in the United States doesn't care about domestic soccer except the MNT and the Women's games so it can be on the proper side of gender-related issues. In spite of its stated "commitment" to MLS through its Thursday night games and its disengenuous claim that it has paid a rights fee to MLS for the first time, (truth: the payment by ESPN goes to SUM and it includes MNT and WNT and is part of the global rights fee paid for World Cup games; MLS benefits through this scheme only as part of a related-party transaction, a "throw-in") ESPN doesn't even bother to give information on MLS in its ESPN Desportes cut-ins on Sportscenter.

Posted by: lgm6986 | October 22, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

Player was down in the box back when the ball was with the cruz azuls keeper.

he was down when DC was trying to clear it before it ever went to Cruz Azul. thsi wasn't stoppign the play in the middle of an offensive run where a palyer went down a few secodn earlier.

The only time Martinez got up was probalby when he went to the locker room from the sideline... he was taken off the field and did not return for the rest of the game.

I think the devil needs a new advocate....preferably one not as mentally limited.


"

So because a player is down in the box the other team shouldn't shoot the ball to show their "sportsmanship"?

It seems like that sets an awful precedent for a lot of defenders taking random sympathy dives.

Didn't Martinez get up and start running again? Pretty weak injury.

I heard McBride was once shot three times by a Mexican fan while he was on fire with a butchers knife stuck in his calf and still came back to defense to keep Blanco from scoring on an empty goal at Azteca.

We need that kind of attitude in our players. None of this Guillardo, I got a paper cut on my pinkie finger so I can’t play, mentality.

We need athletes on our team not baseball players!


Posted by: Devils Advocate | October 22, 2008 1:50 PM

"

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse

LW thanks for the clarification, I thought it was something like that.

Off Topic(where's our EuroChampsLeague thread?):
Liverpool looks to be in their 3rd jersey. This looks far more exciting and less predictable than yesterday's ESPN match.
Yee Haw!

Posted by: dadryan | October 22, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Typical cowardly mexican play.

Posted by: RJ | October 22, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

Looking at the replay, I've never seen anything like the second goal. Not only not to kick the ball out, but to use the fallen player as a pick/screen to get the shot off.

Despicable, shameless conduct.

Posted by: spike_2.1 | October 22, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

When Martinez was down, it would have been really cool if all other DC United players, including Crayton, had just sat down on the ground. If Cruz Azul then feels that it would still be fair to try to score on a bunch of players sitting on their butts, then please go right ahead.

Kind of surprised that Q-Nasty didn't receive a straight red for taking too long to put on the keeper gloves.

Posted by: DCUMD | October 22, 2008 4:33 PM | Report abuse

...but Houston has had the good fortune of relatively few major injuries this season.

Posted by: Devin in Houston | October 22, 2008 12:44 PM

Bingo.

In many professional sports, this is a big factor for a championship team. In the limited resources world of MLS, it's huge.

I'm not saying Houston isn't deserving of the past two championships, or that the players aren't quality - they are. But they have been fortunate, overall. Columbus hasn't been "sent to hospital" much this year, either.


Posted by: Rob | October 22, 2008 4:38 PM | Report abuse

Ok, I agree that the second red looks bad to Thorpe, but most (I would say all, but Thorpe obviously didn't) keepers know that once the ball is placed down, you don't move it. It looks like you are wasting time and you just shouldn't do it. In the 29th minute are you wasting time? No, but you still don't move the thing.

Also, there is no time limit for the keeper to hold the ball. The ref can tell the goalie to hurry up, he can even card the keeper, but there is no set time limit. The 6-second rule was dismissed several years ago.

Posted by: Q | October 22, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Some reffing facts:

Movement of the ball by Thorpe, with his feet no less, was pretty stupid. Drew a yellow card, Thorpe should have got the ref's attention/permission to move it. Any keeper above the eighth grade level should know this, and certainly not dribble it over to the other location.

O's post on time a keeper can hold the ball is totally wrong. Keeper has six seconds to release the ball into play (this replaced the four step rule some years ago). By my count, Clayton held it about eight or nine seconds before putting it on the ground. No reason to call it.

On Clayton's red, where he rushes out to confront the ref, again totally stupid, given how the ref was calling the game. And I couldn't tell if Clayton made physical contact with the ref--bumping him? If he did, off he goes, especially with a martinet like this guy.

Not justifying the calls, except to say that both of these keepers are professional players, and ought to know how to behave in game situations, and also how to read a particular ref.

Posted by: macheath | October 22, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

In a previous thread, someone suggested that Thorpe may have actually thought that the ref wanted him to move the ball from one side of the 6 to the other. But why would a ref care where the ball is placed, so long as it is on the 6?

Posted by: The Jeff | October 22, 2008 8:06 PM | Report abuse

In response to macheath...
I stand corrected. I used to be a ref in PA and the rule got changed for HS up there. They told us it was changed by FIFA. I just checked and it isn't. My bad. That being said, I AM a keeper and refs almost never make that call. They always warn us before they even think to make that call. I didn't see Crayton get warned about that.

As for the moving of the ball, you are right. Keepers need permission to move the ball. Thorpe should've known that. He deserved at the very least a warning. I hate being a DC hater, b/c I love the team, but that was a dumb move by Thorpe.

Posted by: Q | October 22, 2008 10:02 PM | Report abuse

Hasn't Houston actually won 4 MLS Cups if you count the ones won in San Jose? Same team right, just differnt name, colors and location.

Houston is what DC United was back in the first 4-5 years of the league. The sad thing is that if they win a nother MLS Cup, they will pretty much surpass us.

I know that San Jose has two stars on their shirt, but they should really belong on Houston's shirt.

Posted by: JJ | October 22, 2008 11:08 PM | Report abuse

In MLS play, Houston has only used 21 players, far fewer than any other team -- the next lowest number is 25. This tells me that they've done an excellent job staying healthy, and have had most of the season to develop the cohesion they show now -- which if you remember, they did not have early on, as they started the season with 2 losses and 4 draws before picking up a win. In addition, they've played only 2 games all year in a formation different from their preferred 4-4-2 midfield diamond, so there doesn't appear to be any need to adapt to new situations on the field.
Meanwhile, DC has used 29 players, 3rd most in the league, and has played no less than 8 different formations. And it's no surprise that the team that has used the most players, Toronto with 33, will not be making the playoffs. Continuity and consistency are the things that nearly every successful team in every sport have in common, and Houston has showed that this year.

Posted by: mjhoya12 | October 23, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse

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