Network News

X My Profile
View More Activity
On Twitter: SoccerInsider and PostSports  |  Facebook  |  Sports e-mail alerts  |  RSS

Tuesday Kickaround

*MLS player buzz: Veteran MF Dema Kovalenko appears on his way out of Real Salt Lake and might end up in Los Angeles.

*Sorry to rain on the Philadelphia/Chester stadium parade that has marched through giddy soccer blogs and Web sites everywhere, but you might want to read this opinion piece in the Philly Inquirer. Some valid points?

*Hey, DCU fans, feel like asking Juan Sebastian Veron why he spurned the club's offers last winter? Thanks to almighty FIFA, here is your chance.

*No surprise: Cristiano Ronaldo wins the Euro Golden Ball from France Football magazine, beating out Lionel Messi and Fernando Torres. The complete list of winners is here.

*In the U-20 World Cup semifinals Thursday in Chile, the USA women will face Germany, which edged Brazil, 3-2, yesterday. The game will be shown live by ESPNU at 5 p.m. ET. France will play North Korea in the other match (2 p.m. ESPNU).

*For a good cause and good collectors' items, break out your credit cards: The U.S. Soccer Foundation is holding an online auction that includes an assortment of autographed jerseys from around the world. The event ends Dec. 15.

By Steve Goff  |  December 2, 2008; 10:08 AM ET
Categories:  FIFA , MLS , World  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Columbus Day
Next: Lilly Returns

Comments

Lots of random stuiff going on it seems.

Steven, do you know if United is considering going back to the Carolina Challenge Cup next year since we have no annoying Concacaf games early next year? With this past year's Open Cup renewing the friendly rivalry, I think it would be a great idea. And a great road-trip :-)

Posted by: dcufan | December 2, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse

Regarding building the stadium during an economic crisis...JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! You got to put people to work building roads, bridges, schools, hospitals and, yes, the occasional stadium. If people are not working than they're not shopping and if they're not shopping the economy will continue to sink towards depression.

In Chicago folks were looking at the debt the city would accrue building venues and transportation for the Olympics in 2016 and deciding it was too much to take on. Now? We need the jobs more than we don't need the debt. Time to put the city of broad shoulders to work building now...we'll worry about the debt later.

We are Americans, afterall. Time to break out the really, really, really big credit cards. We'll pay it back when the 'ecomony' is back. We, ahem, promise.

Posted by: dailykos1 | December 2, 2008 10:21 AM | Report abuse

I haven't heard anything about DCU going to Carolina for preseason tournament, but it's a bit early in the planning process for MLS teams. We'll see

Posted by: Steve Goff | December 2, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse

It's Philly -- of course there is negativity surrounding sports :)

Posted by: Reignking | December 2, 2008 10:41 AM | Report abuse

From the U-20 write-up, this --
"Leah, Brazil's long-throw expert, almost scored a spectacular second when one of her acrobatic throw-ins eluded the entire German defence but drifted over the crossbar."

It wouldn't have a been a goal if no one touched it, right?

Posted by: OWNTF | December 2, 2008 10:44 AM | Report abuse

So someone please tell me why the stadium could not be built in or near Philly?

Posted by: tmcneil2 | December 2, 2008 10:45 AM | Report abuse

Money.

Posted by: Reignking | December 2, 2008 11:08 AM | Report abuse

With so few home games, "the economic impact of a sports team has the same impact as a midsized supermarket," Eckstein says. "With soccer, maybe we're talking a bodega."

Zing!

Seriously though, could drum up the same pro-con arguments, pick through the columnists assertions... yadda yadda yadda. Don't really feel like it.

Posted by: Kev29 | December 2, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

I think Chester qualifies as "near Philly".

As for that article- one of her main points is 'why are we building a soccer stadium for a community that doesn't have a supermarket' which seems to ignore the fact that the major selling point was that it would be the anchor for a large commercial and residential development including, yes, a supermarket. And the only quotes I could find on the status of the associated development is that they might cut residential space in favor of more retail. It would be more useful to pin them down and make them fulfill the promises regarding the surrounding development than whining about the stadium alone.

Posted by: cmsore | December 2, 2008 11:15 AM | Report abuse

So someone please tell me why the stadium could not be built in or near Philly?

Posted by: tmcneil2 | December 2, 2008 10:45 AM

Define "near". The site is less roughly 10-12 miles from the current stadium complex. It would be comparable to say, DC United building a stadium in Greenbelt instead of at Poplar Point.

It's not like Dallas, where they moved the stadium 25 miles outside the city and pretty far North, isolating much of the suburbs. It's more like Chicago. Not downtown, but easily accessible (still) for anyone who wants to go. Granted, this might not be the view of everyone who lived North of the city, but that will always be the case with suburbian stadia.

And sure, there's plenty of space in the giant parking lot now that they are knocking down the Spectrum, but the MLS group probably wanted more of a parkland-type atmosphere where they can build soccer fields around the stadium.

From the harridan's article she quoted some anti-stadium expert " 'I don't know of a single example where a stadium has produced new jobs or rejuvenated the economy,' Eckstein says." Evidenly they haven't heard of Gallery Place/Chinatown. If it wasn't for the MCI/Verizon Center, there never would have been all that building going on. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure Nat****** Park created jobs. If they actually didn't build that boondoggle, all the jobs building it would not have been created.

Thx,

Jay!

Posted by: jayrockers | December 2, 2008 11:16 AM | Report abuse

So someone please tell me why the stadium could not be built in or near Philly?

Posted by: tmcneil2 | December 2, 2008 10:45 AM
__________________________________________

This is not a unilateral decision, where can just stick a pin in the map anywhere you jolly well please. The owners of any given piece of real estate have to be willing to sell or rent it to you. Do you have other specific sites in mind, where the owners were known to be willing to deal with the MLS investors? Even if there were such places, would these places have come with subsidies attached to them? Again, be specific.

Posted by: universityandpark | December 2, 2008 11:18 AM | Report abuse

It's more like Chicago. Not downtown, but easily accessible (still) for anyone who wants to go.

Posted by: jayrockers | December 2, 2008 11:16 AM

Sorry for being pedantic Jay, but seems to me that the Chester stadium will be a lot easier to get to than Toyota Park. SEPTA station about half a mile from the stadium site in Chester. Public transport options for Bridgeview are very poor. Plus Toyota Park is 16 miles from the Loop - with hideous Chicago traffic separating a lot of the area from games.

Posted by: Kev29 | December 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

From the U-20 write-up, this --
"Leah, Brazil's long-throw expert, almost scored a spectacular second when one of her acrobatic throw-ins eluded the entire German defence but drifted over the crossbar."

It wouldn't have a been a goal if no one touched it, right?

Posted by: OWNTF | December 2, 2008 10:44 AM
_______________________________
You are correct OWNTF - you may not score directly off a throw in. The ball must be touched.

Posted by: schmuckatelli | December 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Report abuse

Once again -- it's a tired argument. There are numerous public expenditures that produce even fewer jobs. How about public parks? Public museums? But, they contribute to the quality of life, which has enormous economic spillover opportunity. It could never be quantified, but what if a growing immigrant middle class decides to remain in the area because they enjoy the lifestyle -- a lifestyle that includes being part of the Hijos de Ben?

There are so many possible returns that can't be predicted or ever quantified. Brad Friedel is planning a multimillion dollar investment in a soccer academy in Ohio. At some point that area will have some real return on the investment.

Also the comparison to Lincoln Financial is unfair. For soccer alone, there will be twice as many home dates as the football stadium. There will also be national team games and international exhibitions. More to the point, football games occur on Sunday afternoon. The only economic boon may be for those selling parking spots on their driveways or lawns. Saturday night soccer games will bring people who will spend money in the entertainment complex -- and may bring repeat customers on non-soccer nights.

I'm not selling supermarkets short. They can have huge impact. Look at the neighborhoods in DC that have not had a decent supermarket. But, the right stadium project can have an impact. A football stadium @ RFK won't have much spillover on Sundays, but if it can host a few Super Bowls, it will pay huge dividends for the city. You have to look with a broader eye.

Posted by: fischy | December 2, 2008 11:30 AM | Report abuse

Leah, Brazil's long-throw expert, also has dual US citizenship.
http://www.wegoweb.net/blog/archives/264-Fortune-Makes-the-Under-20-Brazilian-National-Team.html

Posted by: apqjr | December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Report abuse

Already know the answer. It's MLS.

Posted by: peridigm | December 2, 2008 11:41 AM | Report abuse

Hope it's cool to post this link.
Anyone know where to pick up some Snow Cap in Arlington BTW? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2008457291_websounders01.html

Posted by: DadRyan | December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse

Honduran press reports Walter 'Peri' Martinez will be meeting with DC United in the coming days. Peri is currently with Beijing Guoan (China). I really like this player, he has given Rueda good reason to start him next to David Suazo on the National team. He is a tireless worker, and a dynamic player. Would be great for DC!
http://diez.hn/Legionarios/Ediciones/2008/12/02/Noticias/Peri-podria-dejar-China-para-irse-a-la-MLS

Posted by: nico78 | December 2, 2008 12:27 PM | Report abuse

Sports teams don't have to act capitalistic in America and while it isn't immune to recessions and what not - it's one of a few places where downturns don't hurt or last as long.

However, public financing is the cost of doing business with the people willing to own these entities. When teams wanted to pay players more they found new ways to generate the revenue to do so.

Luxury Suites - Naming Rights - Parking - Signage - Advertising - Cross Promotion - Etc.

And as your competition received access to those revenues, you needed them too. Well you couldn't risk losing your team and some places were truly hurting or in need of a push so Governments figured, why not toss the stadium financing into a larger pool of bonds to help generate funds for us that we sell in the Muni market to people's tanking 401(k)'s.

Valid points for sure - but stadiums are publicly financed venues for rich people. Imagine what ticket prices would be, or even what player wages would be if concessions and ticket prices were the main source of revenue for owners.

It's business and it's nasty - and if some of the other stuff that the real estate geniuses who own PhillyMLS build prods people to move there and that in turns promotes other business for Chester - who lost? If it doesn't - who will care?

If you can be mad about debt financing on a stadium, how about the give-aways that Congress engages in almost daily right now?

Posted by: VirginiaBlueBlood | December 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse

New Stadiums are easy targets for uninspired writers.

She wrote this tripe for the same reasons Fisher bags on DC United, to get attention. Unfortunately for both of them, all they've done is show what unoriginal, untalented, writers they are.

Posted by: alecw81 | December 2, 2008 12:38 PM | Report abuse

People in Philly are more concerned about the ownership group and the CEO of the Keystone Sports and Entertainment Group instead of the stadium being built.
Lots of concern surrounding financial viability of the owner and the ethics of the CEO - sort of a deal with the devil.
As a side note, no one wants to build in Philly due to the unions.
Chester is accessible by all major routes as well as train and buses (SEPTA). It's easier to go to Chester than Philly.

Posted by: LCR-54 | December 2, 2008 12:49 PM | Report abuse

So instead of building a soccer stadium for millionaire owners she would rather build grocery stores for multi-million dollar companies like Safeway?

And once you build the subsidized Safeway wouldn’t that make stores like the COOP that was mentioned less competitive and probably drive local small business owners out of business?

How about DC?

Instead of partially financing the development of Poplar Point with help from the owners of DC United they decided to go with a different developer who would build lots of new high end luxury condos (in Anacostia!) and retail.

Well that developer decided to delay a couple of years (in fact they don’t have financing right now for any of their projects). Had DC United been given the rights initially we would be looking at a new stadium next year that would increase tax income and revenue for that side of the Anacostia by a few million dollars per year. Instead nobody gets anything…

Posted by: Southeasterner | December 2, 2008 12:50 PM | Report abuse

"Evidenly they haven't heard of Gallery Place/Chinatown. If it wasn't for the MCI/Verizon Center, there never would have been all that building going on."

Oh please. Logan Circle and Dupont also saw lots of growth, show me where their stadium was. Lots of DC has boomed without a stadium. Also, the MCI Center was privately funded.

"And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure Nat****** Park created jobs. If they actually didn't build that boondoggle, all the jobs building it would not have been created."

So what? Give a few hundred million and I could create some jobs too. The question is not whether jobs were created, it's is whether that's the best use of the money. I think that sports stadiums are an incredibly difficult case to make.

It's sad to watch people here embrace corporate welfare, even if it is for soccer.

Posted by: grabowcp | December 2, 2008 1:34 PM | Report abuse

ahh, people who have never been poor complaining about a grocery store. I suggest the following experiment for anyone who doesn't think a safeway or giant is valuable: take your monthly food budget, whatever it is (or simply take the amount of money you spent at Giant/Safeway/the Teet/Whole Paycheck last month) and spend it, for one month only, at 7-11 and the corner store. only places within walking distance of your house. try to eat healthy on that same budget from a bodega. enjoy.

as for the facetious MCI Center argument, yes, there is a great difference between the GP of 15 years ago and that of today. is that building related to the Arena? well, you could say that if the entire downtown area wasn't different. look at all the stops on the Green Line between Petworth and L'Enfant Plaza. all have boomed. maybe it's the Green Line, and not the Phone Booth?

of course, then you can say that the Phone Booth made it cool to be downtown again after dark. that makes a lot of sense, actually, I mean look at the swimmingly exciting nightlife out by the Cap Center, which also had 15 years of the Wiz and Caps) and now has FedEx right there! FedEx alone is a million people a year!

Posted by: joshuaostevens | December 2, 2008 1:37 PM | Report abuse

Furthermore, where do people think the money for the stadium comes from? Out of thin air? It is either taken from taxpayer pockets or borrowed, meaning that it will be taken from pockets at a future date.

So really you have to argue that the local government knows better how to spent the taxpayers money than they do. Absurd.

This isn't manna from heaven people, it's robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Posted by: grabowcp | December 2, 2008 1:43 PM | Report abuse

My main complaint was that the author resorted to the lazy arguement that government funding to attract a large scale multi-use waterfront development that includes a stadium estimated to total about $500 million has once again been reduced to the same level of government funding solely for a stadium worth $115 million which makes the math substantially uglier. Stadium opponents will frequently do this because other sorts of development draw less ire, but there is a difference in degree if not in kind between the mixed use type proposals and the stand alones. By doing this all stadium developments become equally expensive stand alones.

I guess what I'm saying is that the politicians worked to get the stadium/waterfront developer to promise all sorts of other things in the package to get the subsidy such that to be intellectually honest it should not be a simple 'stadium subsidy' and is instead a 'stadium/marina/housing/retail(including the community mandated inclusion of a grocery store) subsidy' but because sport is more easily ridiculed as trivial opponents seize upon it to the point of ignoring all else. To me this makes them look like trivial reactionaries to only mention the stadium when instead a more vigorous and honest opposition to the entire project would hold more water. Of course, I'd be angry if the owners back out of any of the other promised development substantially and make it a stand alone stadium, but the whole plan looks good and wouldn't happen without the subsidy.

Posted by: cmsore | December 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Report abuse

@ nico78 -- thanks for the heads-up on a possible signing by United. The team definitely needs people who can put shots on net and avoid the goalie.

Found one youtube clip where Peri nets 2 goals. He definitely benefits from good plays by teammates, but he does put the ball "in the net".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hgUVYmR8cE

------------------------------------------
@grabow:

So really you have to argue that the local government knows better how to spent the taxpayers money than they do. Absurd.
-----------------------------------------
I really hope that the local gov't does know better how to spend money to benefit the city. That's why they're elected.

Private money is spent to benefit those private interests spending it. If it creates jobs or some other public good, it's only a by-product of the spending -- not the essence or purpose of it.

Public officials are elected to decide whether the public would be benefited by public spending. That's their job. I hope they have a better sense of it than the taxpaying public.

Posted by: fischy | December 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Report abuse

"I hope they have a better sense of it than the taxpaying public."

That's a fairly faint hope. Remember, this is money for a stadium, not an essential public good like police or roads. Just because it is their job doesn't mean they are any good at it -- otherwise the people of Chester should just fork over their entire paycheck.

Exhibit A of why we shouldn't trust these guys to spend our money better than us is the Capitol Visitor Center that opens today, literally in Congress's front yard. 3 years overdue and $500 million overbudget.

I say, let the taxpayers of Chester keep their $30 million and spend it as they see fit. If they want to support soccer, fine, but it shouldn't be crammed down their throats.

Posted by: grabowcp | December 2, 2008 2:54 PM | Report abuse

That's not Chester money, that's state money.

Posted by: Reignking | December 2, 2008 3:42 PM | Report abuse

There's no analysis in the Philly Inquirer piece, only chatter from sources whose credibility in talking on the subject is not established.

Have any of the people making comments actually run numbers or done an analysis? I believe there were examples of stadiums revitalizing communities and creating jobs, although I also don't have examples.

I wouldn't get excited on this piece, sounds like just another journalist venting frustration.

Posted by: Eugene7 | December 2, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
RSS Feed
Subscribe to The Post

© 2010 The Washington Post Company