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Matchday: Brazil-South Africa

Confederations Cup semifinal
Kickoff: 2:30 p.m. ET.
TV: ESPN, Telefutura.

Brazil and South Africa battle for the right to play the United States in the Confederations Cup final on Sunday. Brazil is heavily favored over the host nation, but as the U.S. team proved --- anything is possible. As usual, join us for pregame, in-game and postgame discussion.

By Greg Manifold  |  June 25, 2009; 2:30 PM ET
Categories:  Brazil , Confederations Cup , World  
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Next: Video: Brazil's Goal

Comments

It's a bit quiet in here. The same can't be said about those horns in South Africa. They were full force as soon as their anthem ended.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 2:41 PM | Report abuse

Has SA won this game yet? ;-)

Posted by: dcufan | June 25, 2009 2:42 PM | Report abuse

The Brazilians have turned "shielding" into an art form.

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 2:43 PM | Report abuse

10 minutes in, neither team has been too dangerous. Brazil has had the bulk of possession, but never really penetrated into the final third or taken a shot. South Africa has had a few counters, but no shots or real danger have come of them.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 2:44 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

12:00 Brazil gets a shot on goal that is saved

~13:00 South African shot is just wide

This is getting interesting.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

man, being a US national team fan stinks. it's such a lose/lose proposition: they lose, the team stinks. they win, the team got lucky. arrgh.

Posted by: birdynumnum | June 25, 2009 2:50 PM | Report abuse

The Confed Cup final will be on ESPN instead of ESPN2. Is that a change?

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Another good opportunity for South Africa from a free kick and header that goes over the crossbar.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 2:54 PM | Report abuse

Actually, I think the Spaniards were quite respectful; only that Casillas quote bugged me, and he quickly followed up on it.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 2:56 PM | Report abuse

I can't really disagree with Casillas' quote.

Posted by: Logan_Circle | June 25, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Powerful South African free kick saved for a corner.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:02 PM | Report abuse

So Casillas and Puyol see yesterday's result as just a glitch in the Matrix? I saw a Spanish team that couldn't convert a corner kick to save its life.

Posted by: Pedalada | June 25, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

And why couldnt they do anything besides short corners?

Our heads, specifically those of Gooch and Demerit, found them first EVERY single time.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

kept forgetting Kaka was even in the lineup 'til just now

Posted by: sec133row5 | June 25, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Kaka finally appeared in the match. He missed his shot just wide right.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

www.rslfm.com = good place online

Posted by: jahi1 | June 25, 2009 3:11 PM | Report abuse

The US got lucky, Spain would beat us 9 of 10. Wah, wah wah. Let the rest of the world continue to underestimate the US of A. I'm 27 and after the 2002 World Cup I made a bet with one of my peers that the US would win a World cup in our lifetime. Yesterday's win against Spain is another reason why I made that bet.

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:12 PM | Report abuse

Hold on to Kaka like what?

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:13 PM | Report abuse

Another reason why I feel good about making that bet, I should have said.

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"The horns are currently the best thing about this game, which is a bit like saying that death is one of the best things about life." ESPN Gamecast.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

anyone else noticing that no one on the field is moving most of the time, including whoever's got the ball. if Dunga would be fired for coaching a game like our win yesterday, what's going to happen to him after this half?

Posted by: sec133row5 | June 25, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

That exact tackle earned Bradley a red yesterdy...

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 3:18 PM | Report abuse

and MB got more of the ball

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 3:19 PM | Report abuse

Halftime and it is scoreless in South Africa

South Africa has had the better chances so far.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

This ref has consistently let a lot go, MK27. Consistency... wow. A few of those tackles being a red for the US was my first thought though. Whoever is the ref is supposed to be one of UEFA's best. I think he is doing well.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:22 PM | Report abuse

the fix is in.

Posted by: nairbsod | June 25, 2009 3:25 PM | Report abuse

Lalas on the horn. Gotta love it. Ha, Ha. They aren't going to ban those things, we better learn to love em. I'm taking mine camping this weekend and practicing!

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 3:26 PM | Report abuse

Bradley went in studs up. That's why he was carded. A red was harsh, but don't show your cleats and you don't get a card.

Posted by: delantero | June 25, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

This ref has consistently let a lot go, MK27. Consistency... wow. A few of those tackles being a red for the US was my first thought though. Whoever is the ref is supposed to be one of UEFA's best. I think he is doing well.

Posted by: sitruc

I agree. Massimo Busacca > Jorge Larrionda

Posted by: sec133row5 | June 25, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

South Africa's keeper has looked very good. No rebounds at all.

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

The U.S. winning the real Cup in our lifetime would be great. But we have a long way to go. Spain made two horrible mistakes on our goals---Casillas on the first, Ramos on the second. That's not to take away our spirited play, but let's call it what it was, a win by a gritty team not a talent loaded display of great football.

If Spain or any talented, possession oriented team scores first, we're going to have a tough, uphill battle.

I'd like to see us play well, win or lose, in the final on Sunday before I anoint us capable of winning the real Cup.

Posted by: delantero | June 25, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

I hate to stereotype, but the Spaniard athletes are as pompous and ignorant as they come. If you want an example please see their team photo for the basketball team at the Olympics. Sorry but you lost. Get over it!

Posted by: no_recess | June 25, 2009 3:41 PM | Report abuse


for no_recess:

Spanish forward Fernando Torres felt the USA's performance could change the world's perception of U.S. soccer.

"They have five fantastic players," he said. "They have a very good team. Some of them are playing in Europe. It's a good night for them because everybody has seen them. All of the people can see they have fantastic players, a fantastic team."

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

I hate to stereotype, but the Spaniard athletes are as pompous and ignorant as they come. If you want an example please see their team photo for the basketball team at the Olympics. Sorry but you lost. Get over it!

Posted by: no_recess

You hate to stereotype? Really?

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

GREAT pressure by South Africa. But still no score...

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

Ole... we can hear the crowd!

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

62:14 South African fan blows a horn

62:15 South African fan blows a horn

62:16 South African fan...

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

So who do you think Torres is referring to as the five fantastic players?

Dempsey, Altidore, Howard, Donovan, Gooch?, Boca? Demerit? Bradley?

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

If this scored remains, I'm going to have walk downstairs and watch...

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Davies?

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I was surprised to hear Landycakes say that the Spanish team walked off the field without exchanging jerseys... looked to me like Demerit, Gooch, Boca, and Spector were all walking off the pitch with a red kit in their hands.

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

I think he means Timmy and the Ds.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 3:56 PM | Report abuse

This is a HORRIBLE time for my lunch to not be sitting well with me.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 3:58 PM | Report abuse

The new official band of the US Men's Soccer team: Timmy and the Ds!

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Was that Perreira in the stands with the Cup?!

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

That Brazilian fellow from the previous thread might get his wish to see Spain v Brazil.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Let's see...the non-fantastic 6: Boca & Spector, Clark, MB, Jozy, Davies

Because he had to mean the back 3 (Howard/DeMerit/Gooch), LD, and Dempsey.

I missed this, but Demps was named the player of the game by FIFA. He also won that award v Egypt.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

gamecast

71'

Brazil's passing tonight has been as erratic as Amy Winehouse's heartrate.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

The new official band of the US Men's Soccer team: Timmy and the Ds!

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 3:59 PM


Or at the very least, the new theme song

"T-t-t-timmy and the D's, d's..."

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

I was thinking the Timmy song from South Park...

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Delantero, Spain winning the Cup in our lifetime would be a similar achievement as the US doing it. Winning the European Championship was nice but Spain still has a reputation on choking in big competitions, maybe their winning Euro 2008 was a fluke and they are starting to revert to form as perennial underachievers. I think I would rather be an overachiever and live with teams underestimating us than an underachiever where teams just have to wait for us to self-destruct.

Posted by: owendylan | June 25, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

@ No_recess It's not a steriotype to say that Spaniard athletes are pompASS...it's a natural fact.

Posted by: 9Nine9 | June 25, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

owendylan: not even remotely correct on all points.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

9Nine9, your point is as great as your spelling.

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 4:09 PM | Report abuse

Are both coaches holding onto their 3 subs for extra time? Isn't that like when a band holds back it most popular songs for the "spontaneous" encore?

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I think it's a bit early to say they're reverting to being underachievers... they lost one game (despite dominating play) in their last 36 - and that wasn't exactly padded with CONCACAF opponents either.

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

what's the rule for a tie in this cup game? overtime?

Posted by: nairbsod | June 25, 2009 4:11 PM | Report abuse

I wouldn't mind a penalty shootout. That means no Jim Rome show, and I'd much rather just skip to Around the Horn and PTI, no matter the day or reason.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

Lighten up CYork. SteRiotype is a Brazilian font.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

2 x 15 minute OTs followed by PKs if necessary

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

30 mins extra time, then PKs. No golden goal.

83'

Luisao has really quite a magnificent nose.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

Maybe south Africa is playing the game of their lives here, but to me this just looks like an uninspired performance on both sides. I rushed home for this?

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | June 25, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

@delantero - How do you win a match without forcing your opponent to make mistakes?

@owendylan - I too have wondered for some time how everyone (fans and journalists) seemed to have forgotten how the European Giant that is Spain had flammed out of every major competition for decades, prior to the Euro 2008 run.

Posted by: VTUnited | June 25, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Dude, that was just weird.

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Dangerous free kick coming up for Brazil.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

And now a free kick on the edge of the box...

Right after Dani Alves comes in...

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Dani Alves - I'm wearing a scarf but short sleeves cuz I'm cold but my arms ain't!

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Lighten up CYork. SteRiotype is a Brazilian font.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:12 PM

Lol!

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Sorry, but I hate the "choke artists" theory -- in any sport. It takes so many things to go right to win a championship. So Spain wins one, goes on a magnificent 3-year-run, and you want to call it a fluke? That's insane.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Holy...

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Bloody magic.

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

88th minute
You knew it was going to happen
Brazil
1-0

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Beautiful free kick!

Posted by: MK27 | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Wow. Amazing free kick by Alves.

Posted by: CYork1 | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Dani Alves? Exploit his poor positioning ala Sergio Ramos.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Am I supposed to pay for that class Dani Alves just taught called "How to Take a Free Kick?"

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Ok, that was nice. But even that goal can't shut the vuvuzelas up.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | June 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Guess I won't go watch OT.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Note to players: Lifting your shirt to show a tattoo to the camera is also a yellow card.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Another goal from a Brazil dive.

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"Alves, who had been eyeing the situation up as though he wanted to start a fight with it, bends a brilliant free kick around the edge of a wall that was perhaps a man short, clips the right hand post half way up, and goes in. He pulls up his shirt to reveal a tattoo of his name and is booked, hopefully for the poorness of his taste."

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:20 PM | Report abuse

Did that dude just make a throat-slashing motion?!

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

Final

Brazil gets to face the US

Yes, that was a throat-slashing motion. That was strange.

How much stoppage is there? I thought it was over. That was about the third minute of one minute of stoppage.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Can't say I'm disappointed. A final vs SA would have been a letdown.

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

didn't see said throat slash. Who did it?

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 4:25 PM | Report abuse

Did that dude just make a throat-slashing motion?!

Posted by: joedoc1
-------------------------------------------I think that Dude just did. And just after doing the motion, he mouthed something. I don't read lips but is sure seemed an awful lot like if the audio had picked it up it would have been "jd"...

Posted by: yankiboy | June 25, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

If that brazil team shows up and the US plays like yesterday we should win. Unfortunately, the odds are against both of those things, though I think that we will play much better than last week.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | June 25, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

Bring on Brazil... pffft.... what have they ever done?

Posted by: IamAM | June 25, 2009 4:29 PM | Report abuse

"Dear Coach Bob,

I'm ready.

Respectfully yours,
Kasey Keller

(PS: Preki says he's in, too...)"

Posted by: joedoc1 | June 25, 2009 4:30 PM | Report abuse

It was just a fan in the stands, EssEff.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

There were MLS games last night?

There go my lineups...

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:34 PM | Report abuse

It now makes sense that Lula was scouting the US team in Costa Rica. The whole thing is fixed.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 4:39 PM | Report abuse

Even crazier, there were SuperLiga matches and a Freedom game that were actually on television, Reignking.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

I assumed those MLS games were SL matches. Oh well.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

It’s Brazil one to nil
Thirty shots on goal
We both know you won’t bail

Posted by: combedge | June 25, 2009 4:50 PM | Report abuse

For all 3 of us still here, great article:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stefan_fatsis/06/25/us.soccer/index.html

Really hits home.

Posted by: EssEff | June 25, 2009 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Reignking:

Ah, but Dani Alves can dribble and get past people. Against Ramos it wasn't dangerous because his best weapon is just enthusiasm. He can't dribble past people, and he's not a particularly gifted crosser of the ball. Alves can do those things, shoot, and makes better runs.

Posted by: Chest_Rockwell | June 25, 2009 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Throat slash gesture by guy in crowd in close up on camera... Sepp, FIFA, SA organizers - they must all be thrilled.

Wow.

Posted by: CDRHoek | June 25, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

The article linked by EssEff is a must-read. Superb.

Posted by: Chest_Rockwell | June 25, 2009 5:03 PM | Report abuse

No Worries RK. Unless you've got Omar Cummings in your starting XI or perhaps DeRo, you probably didn't miss out on much. You still have a chance to start those jokers though as they'll play again this weekend. As will New York.

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JkR- | June 25, 2009 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Wow, actually was able to get a team of starters in this week. No such luck in mfls though.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

Completely OT

Pop singer Michael Jackson has suffered cardiac arrest, CNN affiliate KTLA reports.

Posted by: Reignking | June 25, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Never heard of him.

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 5:41 PM | Report abuse

TMZ says MJ died.

Same day as Farrah Fawcett too

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 5:59 PM | Report abuse

Of course TMZ will say that, they wanna claim they were first to report it, and if it's not true "Oh, our bad, bad sources"

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 6:01 PM | Report abuse

CNN says Michael is in a coma.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 6:23 PM | Report abuse

and now more(including the LA Times) are reporting he has died.

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 6:25 PM | Report abuse

Okay, now CNN and the LA Times are confirming it.

RIP, I suppose.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 6:27 PM | Report abuse

Not, CNN, my apologies.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 6:28 PM | Report abuse

AP says bye bye.
ABC news, too.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 6:30 PM | Report abuse

Just turned to CNN and they are running that he has died, but as they have been with several items recently, they are saying they haven't confirmed....

RIP Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson

Posted by: sitruc | June 25, 2009 6:34 PM | Report abuse

"How do you win a match without forcing your opponent to make mistakes?"

Those mistakes were pretty foolish and unforced. GK Casillas pulled a Crayton and anticipated too early, started to his left, but still got a hand on it. If he stays home, he makes that save. Who the heck knows what Ramos was thinking on the Dempsey goal.

Either way, a gritty win, but not a pretty win. Sort of what I expect from this team here on out.

Posted by: delantero | June 25, 2009 6:50 PM | Report abuse

Unforced?

Donovan was very smart to put the ball in the six with Spain's tired defenders running towards their own goal. Ramos was wrong-footed and really couldn't do much. So that was a forced error.

Jozy blocked out Capdevila and was shielding Puyols. The penetration forced Casillas to make a decision. Maybe he made a bad one, maybe not. If he stays home, maybe Jozy makes a different shot or maybe Puyols pulls him down.

We had two or three chances before Jozy's goal, while the deflection may have been lucky, the overall play was not.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | June 25, 2009 7:19 PM | Report abuse

Well, I guess we'll have our first music-themed kick around in a while, although not for the best of reasons.

I'm five years younger than it, and even I recognize the genius that was the Thriller album.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 7:27 PM | Report abuse

Who the heck knows what Ramos was thinking on the Dempsey goal.


===

Uh...I think it's pretty clear what he was thinking. He was falling off to his left had to react quickly to the deflection, and didn't know where Dempsey was, so he didn't want the ball going through cleanly. Unfortunately for him, because he got wrong footed off of the deflection, and he was barely got a touch to the ball. The problem was that Dempsey was already cutting back to it.

On the flipside, if Ramos doesn't touch the ball, Clint probably comes back, side-foots it home, and then has the goal waved off for coming back into the play from an offside position.

Posted by: mason08 | June 25, 2009 7:31 PM | Report abuse

I'll say it now, and I'll say it again on the wrap up. I want to face Brazil in the final.

Not because I'm cocky, or because I think we are the superior team. There is no transitive property in sports, and after this embarrassment, they will be looking for revenge, and will be looking to shoot up the rankings with this win, laughing at Spain.

There is no walking away from what we did last game, as the saying goes, "Quit while you're ahead." Because the World Cup is still on the table. Let us play.

South Africa making the final would have helped the skeptics belief that our win was a fluke. Making Brazil sweat like we made Spain sweat, that is what we should be striving for. We've once again got nothing to lose, and we're on quite a streak. We will need more possession to accomplish this, but enough about tactics.

Let's prove that we can win against the great, and have it not be a miracle.

I will say though, that with that belief in mind, I could not help but root for that truly admirable performance, they played as a better unit then the champs.

Now let's get it done.

Posted by: UnitedDemon | June 25, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Actually, he would not have been offsides, as he was onsides at the time of the pass, and the deflection matters not.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 25, 2009 7:37 PM | Report abuse

You guys are nuts. Ramos could easily have one timed the ball out! Wrong footed>!>! Was Onyewu wrong footed or DeMerit wrong footed on the dozens' of balls they cleared? In the Italy game, was Onyewy wrong footed by the shot from distance that he could have cleared with his left, but switched to his right and missed the ball? No, it was an unforced mistake.

Ramos virtually traps the ball in front of him when he could have and should have throttled the ball out. That's an unforced error.

And Casilla's lean left was clearly a goalie mistake. Jozy's shot was not that great, but it was hit hard and on frame. Casillas and Ramos, 9 out of 10, make those plays.

Posted by: delantero | June 25, 2009 8:15 PM | Report abuse

Are we seriously becoming the naysayers of our own victory?

WOW.

Posted by: UnitedDemon | June 25, 2009 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Nope.
Can't really discount a 2-0 beating of Spain with every silly excuse in the book. The US won fair and square. Brazil? Not so sure...

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 9:48 PM | Report abuse

And yes, I am saying that I like our chances on Sunday.

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 9:50 PM | Report abuse

Actually, he would not have been offsides, as he was onsides at the time of the pass, and the deflection matters not.

==

That's what I was talking about. He looked level from the standard camera, but the angle makes it hard to tell, since that close of a call comes down to head/foot placement. With the way that they were calling other US attacks, I'd put even odds on that crew calling it offside. It was that close.

Posted by: mason08 | June 25, 2009 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Are you guys seriously talking about OFFSIDEZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz again?

Posted by: DadRyan | June 25, 2009 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Ramos virtually traps the ball in front of him when he could have and should have throttled the ball out. That's an unforced error.

===

No. He really couldn't.

http://ballhype.com/video/video_255/

Here's the stride by stride (Dempsy in parens).

1. Ramos was running at a 3/4 run towards his net when the pass came across.

(Dempsey was running at 3/4 as well.)

2. After the ball deflects, he has all his weight on right foot about seven yards from goal.

(Dempsey was between strides, over the six yard line.)

3. The ball ran parallel to the goal line seven yards out. As the ball reaches Ramos, he has planted his left foot at about five yards and has begun to spin around *to his right*, while his momentum carries him *to his left*.

(Dempsey plants his left foot at about three yards, and is picking up his right to come back.)

4. The ball reaches him at six yards out. The reaching right foot, leg slightly bent, stops it as he crow hops a foot twoards goal with the left, now at around 4.5 yards or so.

(Dempsey is level, pushing off of his right and coming back to the now sitting ball.)

5. He plants the right and starts come back, but Dempsey is already back to the ball.

(Dempsey plants his left foot on the six-yard line, spins, and side-foots it low. )


Items two, three, and four happened in about a half second. Item five happened a half second after that. He probably could have taken a wild swing at it, but with that much spinning, hopping and falling away, he would have been just as likely to swing and miss. It is REALLY hard make that clearance with any authority, and without the trap, he would have been just as likely to swing and miss, or if he tried to hit it with the top or instep, shank it into an own goal.

Posted by: mason08 | June 25, 2009 10:53 PM | Report abuse

Yep DR.

We're even putting our hands on our hips with our elbows out while doing it!

Posted by: mason08 | June 25, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

its a match day thread about Brazil and South Africa....

Posted by: DadRyan | June 26, 2009 12:18 AM | Report abuse

mason08, have you ever played d before? Ramos made a friggin bad mistake. Seriously, he screwed up and Dempsey punished him for it. Saying anything else is really just ignorant. He obviously lost track of Dempsey and played it rather stupidly to himself within his six.

A) If he had a clue he would have let the ball drift out. He didn't even have to touch it.

B) The Brit announcer says as much "it's a loose touch." "he lost track of Dempsey."

Posted by: delantero | June 26, 2009 12:31 AM | Report abuse

I don't give a crap. Dempsey put the ball in the net. We beat Spain 2-0. We play Brazil sunday. Just like I talked about moving on to the next game after the Costa Rica match, I say the same here.

STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER!!!

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | June 26, 2009 12:50 AM | Report abuse

Honestly? In my opinion, South Africa played better than what USA played against Spain. They had the same consistency in deffense but managed to have more opportunities than the american team. Too bad for them that against them was the best keeper in the world and Lucio in an inspired day (easily the best defender in this cup). Every time a brazilian player was with the ball, there was two south african players marking this player. They didn't give any space for the brazilian team to play. A very good match that made South Africa's supports very proud of their team, even with the defeat.

"Let's prove that we can win against the great, and have it not be a miracle." Sorry, but the match against Spain will always be a miracle. That's because two goals in the only two opportunities during the whole game in the soccer world is a miracle. Rarely a team can get such efficiency.

Posted by: guz_fernandes | June 26, 2009 1:33 AM | Report abuse

mason08, I'm of the opinion that Ramos made a mistake. I agree that was impossible to kick the ball out without trapping it first, but he trapped the ball right next to Dempsey, allowing the american player to score the goal, while he could had trapped it far from Dempsey. Also, Puyol was right next to him, he could had passed the ball to him. Or he could had simply kicked the ball out without turning around and giving the american team a corner.

In the end of the game, with your team loosing for 1 x 0, it is higly recommend that you play as simple as possible in the deffense and that was Ramos mistake. He wanted to trap to ball to then after pass it to a teammate giving a chance to Spain to counter-attack. That was probably the best solution, but the hardest too.

Posted by: guz_fernandes | June 26, 2009 1:44 AM | Report abuse

A) If he had a clue he would have let the ball drift out. He didn't even have to touch it.

> You asked if I played D and say this? You must be joking. When have you ever seen defensive players, at any level, let the ball roll down the six yard line like that, and let the ball roll past them?

B) The Brit announcer says as much "it's a loose touch." "he lost track of Dempsey."

> Of course it was a loose touch. Loose was about damn near the only touch he could make on it because he was falling away to the left and spinning back to the right. Seriously... Combining those movements with trying to stop from a sprint/run puts 95% of the world's population on their backs. Of the 5% that can do that, fewer yet can make contact with a rolling soccer ball, and even fewer can successfully clear the ball one-touch. He tried to make the safe play, by keeping the ball from going past him.

And he lost track? Bull. Dempsey ran right in front of him on their way into the area. There is no way that he lost track of him. He may have thought had more space, or that Dempsey couldn't come back quickly enough, but I don't think he had time to think at all. The ball deflected into his neighborhood, and he stuck his foot out to keep it from going past him, just as many players have done before him and many have done since. It was unfortunate for him that Dempsey had no feet on the ground during the "decision period" after the deflection, and therefore was able to start to change directions in a quarter stride (both feet up, lead foot about to land) as opposed to a half stride (lead foot down, trail leg passing lead). All I'm saying is that if you put Dempsey on the wrong foot in that exact same situation, we'd all be talking about how Dempsey fell over and missed a sitter of an insurance goal. But he wasn't, and Ramos was, so Dempsey took advantage of the forced physical error.

Posted by: mason08 | June 26, 2009 1:46 AM | Report abuse

I agree that was impossible to kick the ball out without trapping it first, but he trapped the ball right next to Dempsey, allowing the american player to score the goal, while he could had trapped it far from Dempsey. Also, Puyol was right next to him, he could had passed the ball to him. Or he could had simply kicked the ball out without turning around and giving the american team a corner.

===

Gus - Which is it? Impossible to kick? Or he should have passed/put it behind for a corner? You can't really have both. That's called playing both sides.

Posted by: mason08 | June 26, 2009 1:48 AM | Report abuse

My bad on the name, Guz. I really should lower the resolution on my monitor. Need bigger typeface.

Posted by: mason08 | June 26, 2009 1:53 AM | Report abuse

It was impossible to turn around his body and kick the ball without trapping it. But wasn't impossible for him to pass the ball to Puyol or putting it behing for a corner without trapping the ball first. That's why I think he made a mistake.

Posted by: guz_fernandes | June 26, 2009 2:01 AM | Report abuse

And, no problem. Gus is how it is written in my language :D

Posted by: guz_fernandes | June 26, 2009 2:02 AM | Report abuse

""It was impossible to turn around his body and kick the ball without trapping it""

Slide, push the ball out toward the sideline. Not that hard, really. His biggest mistake was letting Dempsey slide in ahead of him.

Mason08, I hope you never coach, your team will be crushed. Especially if you don't teach how to clear the ball out of the six and allow defenders to trap the ball there . . .

Posted by: delantero | June 26, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

And can you please give me a step by step account of how Casillas didn't make a mistake by leaning to his left . .

Posted by: delantero | June 26, 2009 11:26 AM | Report abuse

Just a small sample of descriptions of the play from various outlets, Mason08. If I had more time, I could fill the page!>>

""It evades everyone, but Ramos dawdles with the ball in the 6-yard box, "" ESPN

"Ramos's lazy touch in the box."

""Donovan's low cross should really have been cleared by Ramos at the far post"" The Guardian

Posted by: delantero | June 26, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

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