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Friday Morning Kickaround

Sorry I'm getting this up a little later in the morning than you're used to, but I've delayed getting my brakes done long enough and a family friend has offered to help me out. Thus, I'm back in the hometown of Alexandria, VA, most specifically Mount Vernon, and finally back from picking up the brake pads. Now lets talk some soccer.

- We start with the news of President Barack Obama's declaration...ok, hint...that he might want to head to South Africa next summer for the 2010 World Cup.

After meeting with South African President Jacob Zuma, Obama was asked by a pool reporter yesterday if he would attend the World Cup. President Obama answered: "That's my goal."

The AP has more on it here.

- D.C. United will be hosting a chat on its website with club President Kevin Payne today at 1:30.

- Panama held Mexico to a 1-1 draw last night in Houston, but not without plenty of controversy. Four red cards, a coach's kick...it was all there.

You judge for yourself the "kick" from Mexico Coach Javier Aguirre...

By Paul Tenorio  |  July 10, 2009; 10:30 AM ET
Categories:  2010 World Cup , Gold Cup , Mexico  
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Next: Matchday: USA and MLS

Comments

Reposting on today's thread:

10 years ago today.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Also a re post from the US Honduras thread:
****************************

Watched my DVR of this game last night. Fox Soccer's production really failed at capturing the energy of the stadium. It came across as dull and lifeless. I suspect it was the audio set up they employed.

Kind of disappointing as I felt the energy in the stadium was some of the best in a while. (Since perhaps 2007 playoff loss to Chicago?)

Posted by: JkR- | July 10, 2009 10:49 AM | Report abuse

Disgraceful behavior by team Mexico and its fans? I'm shocked, shocked.

I wonder which of Zuma's wives Michelle will hang out with.

"That's my goal." That's a good one. Is Joedoc ghost writing for him? (Now that might be interesting.)

Posted by: OWNTF | July 10, 2009 10:50 AM | Report abuse

"kick"?... Really, is it in question? Agguire is a "Pathetic Disgrace".

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Anybody think Lance will make a move for the yellow in the next couple minutes?

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 10:58 AM | Report abuse

What an idiot... Why is he so close to the field? I thought the "manager's box" or "technical area" or whatever the bench area is called, had to be a little further from the sideline?

Posted by: edgeonyou | July 10, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

Woody Hayes reincarnated?

Posted by: universityandpark | July 10, 2009 11:04 AM | Report abuse

I'm still new to the whole national team thing, but does Mexico ever have a game that's not crazy?

Posted by: kris77 | July 10, 2009 11:08 AM | Report abuse

Cancellara is cracking...

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

I wonder which of Zuma's wives Michelle will hang out with.
Posted by: OWNTF
================

If this were 10 years ago, each of Zuma's wives could hang out with one of Clinton's girlfriends.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:09 AM | Report abuse

What I found the most entertaining was the fact that Phillips refused to leave the field in fear of the birage of trash that was bound to rain down upon him.

10 minutes. Then another Panamanian got nailed in the noggen by a water bottle.

I dunno, is there anything less expected outta the Mexican fans?

Posted by: dogboy | July 10, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Fabian Cancellara has been broken.

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 11:10 AM | Report abuse

I'm not sure there is room for more in Reliant Stadium, edgeonyou.

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 11:11 AM | Report abuse

i expect fifa or whoever will punish this guy severely for his lack of discipline. How can mexican soccer be this bad. Drawing with panama? lol wow. Either panama is getting better or mexico is simply in need of a new president of their football association.

Posted by: g3impreza | July 10, 2009 11:18 AM | Report abuse

The Twerp is attacking...Lance is gonna break Cadel off.

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Mexico or not, the fan behavior is bad news for the Gold Cup organizers and validates the opinions of Marc Fisher et al. that all soccer fans are hooligans. How far are we from implementing EPL-style security: no beer in the stands, police barriers for visiting fans.

I agree with a ban and severe fine for Aguirre. Maybe this should be taken further and Mexico should forfeit points in the tournament.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:22 AM | Report abuse

Nothing about Panama's play should be commended.

Team Astana is beast. Who gets the yellow?

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 11:27 AM | Report abuse

not sure yet. math.

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:29 AM | Report abuse

He must have learned from O. Sanchez. How come he didn't get suspended when he tried to trip Eddie Johnson after Donovan scored a few years back?

Posted by: ripdeez_2000 | July 10, 2009 11:30 AM | Report abuse

I'm sure the security at Reliant loved the crowds last night. The entire second half was shameful. Especially Aguirre's little ballet move. The worst part is that Phillips made a move in his direction, because the subsequent ejections harmed Panama far more than Mexico - a field player vs a coach in the last (insert number of minutes here because your guess is as good as mine as to how many they actually played) minutes of the game is not a fair trade.

I'm glad Panama soldiered on for the tie, though.

Posted by: Modibo | July 10, 2009 11:31 AM | Report abuse

Don't feed into Fisher's paranoia. The only solution is to ban Mexico from any tournament until the year 2218.

And never, EVER talk about banning beer.

Posted by: Hoost | July 10, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Time to remove Cancellara from any mountain stages...

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

22 second gain by Contador - wasn't the gap to yellow 19 s?

Posted by: Modibo | July 10, 2009 11:33 AM | Report abuse

Nope, Nocentini leads by 6 s according to Joe Lindsay at Bicycling.

Posted by: Modibo | July 10, 2009 11:35 AM | Report abuse

1. Nocentini
2. Contador @ :06
3. Armstrong @ :08
4. Leipheimer @ :39
5. Wiggins @ :46
6. Andreas Kloden @ :54
7. Tony Martin @ 1:00
8. Vande Velde @ 1:24
9. Andy Schleck @ 1:49
10. Vincenzo Nibali (Liquigas) @ 1:54

Posted by: Modibo | July 10, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

@Hoost. I'm not feeding into the paranoia (it'll destroy ya'). But I get your point, "validates" was the wrong word, "lends support to" is better.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Watched my DVR of this game last night. Fox Soccer's production really failed at capturing the energy of the stadium. It came across as dull and lifeless. I suspect it was the audio set up they employed.

Kind of disappointing as I felt the energy in the stadium was some of the best in a while. (Since perhaps 2007 playoff loss to Chicago?)
Posted by: JkR- | July 10, 2009 10:49 AM

----------

That, and Max Bretos and Christopher Sullivan, is why I switched over to Telefutura in the 12th minute. FSC lowers the crowd volume or something - the Spanish stations have a much, much better crowd sound pickup and it's overall a more enjoyable experience.

On a side note, Bretos spent the first 10 minutes waxing poetic about Honduras, then actually said the country "has a more impressive collection of players in Europe than the US or Mexico." I think he was referring to size of country to players playing overseas ratio, but still.

Posted by: ZidVicious | July 10, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

Did Lance pull Contador or was Contador taking a turn too?

Posted by: OWNTF | July 10, 2009 11:39 AM | Report abuse

Can anyone recommend a good live site for following the Tour? I had luck with the ESPN live thingey, but lately it doesn't seem to update.

I270...Better Clinton gets an orgasm than a Bush wargasm. Couldn't let a swipe at my man Bill go unnoticed.

Posted by: EssEff | July 10, 2009 11:40 AM | Report abuse

Noncentini in Yellow.

@EssEff: The racetracker(with streaming video) on Versus.com is excellent. Maybe not the quality of watching on TV but now commercial breaks.

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:47 AM | Report abuse

@OWNTF: It was pretty much a team effort, until Contador decided to do what he had to do. Lance doesn't seem too pissed....

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:49 AM | Report abuse

I meant NO Commercial breaks on Versus.com

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 11:50 AM | Report abuse

Painful as Bretos can sometimes be, I loved the call on our first goal.

QUARANTA! YYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEES!

Posted by: DCUMD | July 10, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

@all the Tour comments "Can anyone recommend a good live site for following the Tour?"

No, but I know it's not here.

Panama played a respectable game at times much more skilled than Mexico. Panama just wasn't shy about getting physical; not dirty, just hard.

Mexican coach should be banned for more than 4 games. If Bradley Jr. was banned for 4 games for disrespectful comments after a game, a coach kicking a player in the crotch during the game has to be worth more than that.

Posted by: Alsatian1 | July 10, 2009 11:55 AM | Report abuse

Go Lance. I like the Tour but it makes it so much more exciting when an American is in contention. The Tour organizers should be stoked that he is bringing some life back to the race.

Posted by: EssEff | July 10, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Nocentini? I don't even recall seeing him on the list...

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 11:57 AM | Report abuse

Love the versus.com feed -- just wish the virtual tracker were better.

EssEff: 3 Americans in the top 10.

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 12:00 PM | Report abuse

Paul,

Perhaps you should suggest to your editors the obvious need for a "Cycling Insider" blog.

Posted by: Kenobi | July 10, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

What was Aguirre thinking last night?!

Mexico might not even make it to the Quarters....of the GOLD CUP?!

ABL (ANYONE but Lance)!

Posted by: arswift24 | July 10, 2009 12:09 PM | Report abuse

Aguirre was only part of the fun. FOr those who missed some of the best work by Mexican fans in Houston:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5E2FfD96z0&NR=1

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Well maybe if Tenorio would stop farting around with looking for Gooch, talking about Obama, and getting his car serviced we'd have something else to talk about than the Tour ay?

Here's a cycling blog where I found the totally awesome Lemond bong smoking clip:
http://www.bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/
here's a versus link:
http://www.versus.com/tdf
why not said Lemond clip again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTh61OxoC0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebikesnobnyc%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 12:21 PM | Report abuse

I think Aguirre wants to be fired, arswift24.

Somehow I feel more obliged to make a Tour comment than a soccer comment. Don't forget to check the usual places for streams if you want to watch the race and don't want to go with trackers or they are blocked at work.

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

No DadRyan, I think that the ones talking about the tour will do so regardless of the topic.

Adn we don't want Paul driving to training sessions with bad brakes. DC has enough injuries without adding "struck by car" to the list.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 12:27 PM | Report abuse

I'm just poking a little fun at Paul anyway. He does an excellent job.

I don't complain when this place turns into Margaritaville, I also remember we talked plenty about the "Tour Day France" last year. If college basketball was on, or even college baseball, people would be talking that.
I'll take enjoying Le Tour over beating the whole Aguirre and ALL of Mexico suck argument any day.

How about an open thread, for the more bicycle friendly Paul? All the "driving while I'm texting, and updating my facebook, while checking out Soccer Insider" cats can stay off of it.;-)

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 12:38 PM | Report abuse

@I-270: All of us cyclists welcome Tenorio getting his brakes serviced...:-)

A couple days late, but a reminder for everyone to be careful out there. Keep the rubber side down, and pay attention to what your are doing.
http://www.ghostbikes.org/washington-dc/alice-swanson

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

Really -- this should be for soccer or at least somewhat soccer-related posts. The occasional comment about something else in the news (someone's passing, other notable sports events, etc,) is fine, but let's not turn this into a daily cycling thread.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

If there's a bicycle thread, I'll post comments on NYRB jerseys, Charlie Davies' bicycle kick, and this :-)

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 12:47 PM | Report abuse

Also -- some of us would like to come home and watch VS. coverage-- but don't want to be forced to avoid Soccer Insider to escape spoilers. If there's a big soccer match in the afternoon, that can be anticipated. Finding cycling results here is not.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 12:53 PM | Report abuse

Dortmund, huh? I never got there. Put my ticket up (Brazil-Ghana) on ebay before I even left the train station on my back from the Ghana-USA game.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

I hate the song crap, but I've never complained.

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 12:55 PM | Report abuse

As far as results? hmm...

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 12:56 PM | Report abuse

yeah we need the friday afternoon what-are-you-watching post

canada/costa rica tonight on telefutura. anyone know what channel that is on fios? Is Jakovic starting?

Posted by: OWNTF | July 10, 2009 1:11 PM | Report abuse

The Basque wanted to show him the Mexican guey (pronouced "way"). Orale ! lol

Posted by: Charisma_Man | July 10, 2009 1:20 PM | Report abuse

@OWNTF -- I'll take a stab at it.

Soccer tonight --

Gold Cup:

Canada-Costa Rica @7:00 pm, on Telefutura (Ch. 17 on Verizon), followed by...
Jamaica-El Salvador @ 9:00, also on Telefutura.

USL -- Rochester Rhinos vs. Puerto Rico Islanders @8:00 pm, on FSC. (Our chance to do our own scouting on DC United's next Open Cup opponent.)

Saturday night -- another Telefutura Copa de Oro doubleheader:
USA-Haiti @ 7:00, and Grenada-Honduras @9:00.
FSC is carrying the English language broadcast for USA-Haiti.
LA Galaxy-Chivas USA follows later on FSC, at 11:00.

Sunday brings more Gold Cup -- Panama-Nicaragua @ 2:00, followed by Mexico-Guadeloupe (point of interest -- wins by Panama and Guadeloupe will probably eliminate Mexico from the the Gold Cup) (not sure what network is airing this, as Verizon's guide lists other programming on all the major Spanish-language television -- obviously a mistake), and also....
Some WPS @ 6:00 pm on FSC.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 1:35 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, enough with the cycling. If I wanted to follow a drugged up "sport", I'd follow baseball.

Posted by: giardinie | July 10, 2009 1:40 PM | Report abuse

What makes this incident extremely funny, how it was played out on national television, Univision. Funny how Univision does absolute coverage for the Mexican national only to have it blown up in their faces with a bad incident. And now with the possibility of elimination, it will be great to see Mexico eliminated on Univision.
I wonder if they will move some of the coverage to Univision instead of Telefutura or Galavision...I probably think not!

Posted by: TheWashDipsSince88 | July 10, 2009 1:45 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, enough with the cycling. If I wanted to follow a drugged up "sport", I'd follow baseball.

Posted by: giardinie

Can you believe the Phillies are looking at Pedro?

Tour de France is for the Eurosnobs :)

Looking at that schedule -- I think I'll pass on soccer this weekend. Going kayaking on Saturday, so that will take up enough time.

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 1:54 PM | Report abuse

I honestly think Mexico's trouble is that they forget how games are won: Scoring goals. With their endless sequences of pointless possession, it seems to be they are trying to tell the other team "No, no, no, first we prove we're better than you, then you have the honor of losing to us." I don't see any of the "I just want to score a goal" player like Dempsey, or Davies. They seem to have no desire to actually finish.

That being said, I wish we were as good as them at wasting time and killing a game, without letting the other team have the ball. The problem is, they think they're up 3 zip!

Posted by: UnitedDemon | July 10, 2009 1:59 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah, and whatever it was Aguirre was doing, SOOOOOOO stupid.

Posted by: UnitedDemon | July 10, 2009 2:00 PM | Report abuse

@UnitedDemon -- I agree mostly. I think there's some hesitancy, too, to take chances with the passes. They always seem to take the safe, unproductive pass, even when someone is moving into a more dangerous position.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:03 PM | Report abuse

OMG, not Kayaking talk!!

Arrrgghhh!


Or is that over-egging the pudding?

Posted by: JkR- | July 10, 2009 2:04 PM | Report abuse

KP breaks a little news in the chat -- states that the US Open Cup final would be at RFK. Personally, I'm especially surprised that RFK would get the nod over Qwest, but I'm very pleased. Really looking forward to attending a final against either Seattle or Houston. Would like to see at least an MLS-size crowd for that one.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:06 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, enough with the cycling. If I wanted to follow a drugged up "sport", I'd follow baseball.

Posted by: giardinie | July 10, 2009 1:40 PM

I heard from someone who worked at FIFA in Switzerland for several years that, while there is a fairly extensive drug testing program for Soccer, unlike cycling (and most Olympic sports) it doesn't involve any blood testing.

Soccer fans discussing cycling on soccer blogs are tour-o-snobs.

Posted by: MrKrys | July 10, 2009 2:16 PM | Report abuse

Anyone who thinks there are no drugs in soccer is just naive.

Exhibit A: Aguirre

Damn, that dude's got some dentures.

Posted by: EssEff | July 10, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

To sum up all the off-topics: the doped up kayaker was offside.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 2:24 PM | Report abuse

To sum up the on-topic: drum or disc brakes?

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

So Davies to Sochaux? Is there a league more boring than the french one? Good move or bad?

Posted by: Brian76 | July 10, 2009 2:28 PM | Report abuse

Damn, when the Goff's away. I know my input may be lame, but you guys are seriously knowledgeable and entertaining. Would love to buys yous guys a drink when I'm in town.

Posted by: EssEff | July 10, 2009 2:29 PM | Report abuse

More news from the KP chat -- it seems DCU was impressed with Harrisburg's Shipalane. KP says they are looking at him. I really wish I wasn't sick. I missed some great games this week...

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:32 PM | Report abuse

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discussion of the Gwada Boys on this blog. If there is anyone reading this in the Phoenix area, I hope you come out and root for them on Sunday. (I'd say that even if they weren't playing Mexico.) Has anyone seen them in action? Should MLS clubs be looking at anyone in particular?

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 2:33 PM | Report abuse

@cow_pasture -- you sent me to do some research. Very impressive. Many of the players have contracts with a European side. Mostly French teams (even in Ligue 1), but also Dutch, Belgian and Scottish, Czech, Swiss 1st divisions, English EPL, Championship and League One sides. Seems highly unlikely they would come to DC. A few do play in Guadeloupe -- would be interesting to see if they ever see the pitch in this tourney.

Not entirely surprising that they are doing so well in the Gold Cup, with this kind of a roster. Makes me wonder why they don't make an impact in WC Qualifying. Could there be some rule that allows the French-born players to play in other tourney but not WC qualifiers?

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:45 PM | Report abuse

I feel like I might have read such a thing with regards to Thierry Henry, or some other French national team star -- that he might be eligible to play for them in friendlies (and other matches????), after retiring from France....

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:47 PM | Report abuse

Here are the stadium-related questions from the Kevin Payne chat:

Q: Can you give us any updates on the stadium situation around DC?

KP: I can't provide a detailed stadium update but can tell you that we are looking right now at four legitimate opportunities in three different jurisdictions. These are real possibilities for us, and we hope to be able to say more later this summer or in the fall.

Q: According to DCU Principal Owner Will Chang (via a Washington Post interview), you are the point man on the team's search for a new stadium. My question is this: is DCU willing to pay more than half of the eventual construction costs of a new stadium, regardless of where it may be located, like Real Salt Lake did with Rio Tinto Stadium ($65 million private, $45 million public = $110 million total stadium cost)?

KP: We don't expect to pay that large a percentage and in the conversations we're having right now that has not been the financial model being discussed.

Q: If DCU were to pay the total cost of building a new stadium, would the revenues generated from it (ticket sales, concessions, concerts, monster truck shows, etc) be sufficient to allow the team to recoup the cost of the stadium in a relatively short amount of time? Or is that simply just not feasible in this day and age, hence your efforts to partner/share the cost of construction with a municipality? If so, would the team be willing to pay for more than 50 percent of the construction cost? I understand the devil is in the details, and any exact number would have to be negotiated, but wouldn't you agree that any municipality would be more amenable to enter into a partnership if it wasn't paying the lion's share of the cost?

KP: Not feasible. And not, in my view, reasonable. Stadiums, done right and in the right location, produce substantial beneficial impact for surrounding businesses, in spite of what some academics like to say. Additionally, sports teams and great venues play a vital role in making a city into a real community. Are Fenway Park or Wrigley Field venues which produce benefit only for the teams? Its absolutely fair for the community to help support a stadium, especially when it doesn't have to use existing tax revenues to do so.

Q: Is proximity next to a Metro station still a priority when finding a location for a new D.C. United stadium?

KP: Yes!

Posted by: Juan-John | July 10, 2009 2:52 PM | Report abuse

Payne:

In regards to firing Soehn last year:
"We try to not make petulant, angry decisions."

IMO, best answer and a smack down to the Bob Gansler's of the world . .

We need to prove that our product is going to continue to improve on and off the field. There have been some great steps forward this year -- especially in Seattle -- but much remains to be done. Way too many games are dour and lifeless affairs -- we need more teams to have their ownership and executive management dictate a specific identity and commitment to attractive soccer to their technical staff, and then they need to support that staff even if results sometimes don't go their way. We are drifting, in my view, into a product which too often looks like lower table English soccer, with the road teams packing it in and hoping the hit an occasional quick counter off a long ball, and the home teams too often unable to unlock the defense due to a dearth of technical and creative players. I'm proud that when we go on the road, we try to play aggressive soccer, with stylish attacks and numbers committed forward. Sometimes that isn't the best way to get a result, but Tommy Soehn knows he has our support and that D.C. United is expected to play with a certain style. Not too many teams in our league actually feel, or act, that way

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 3:03 PM | Report abuse

To sum up the on-topic: drum or disc brakes?

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 2:28 PM |
Drum Sticks or Disc Golf?

Posted by: boda-united | July 10, 2009 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Re: Armstrong. Contador sent a message today. Lance will have to follow him sooner or later to have any hope of yellow. Maybe by week 3, he'll be strong enough but he'll have to hold on and keep it close.

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 3:06 PM | Report abuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guadeloupe_national_football_team

As an overseas department of the French Republic, it is not a member of FIFA. Guadeloupe is therefore not eligible to enter the World Cup, Guadeloupeans being French citizens eligible to play for the French national football team. Lilian Thuram, born in Pointe-à-Pitre, Guadeloupe, won the 1998 FIFA World Cup wearing France's jersey. However, Guadeloupe is a member of CONCACAF and CFU, and thus eligible for all competitions organized by both.

So what happens if Guadeloupe wins the 2011 Gold Cup? Would they be eligible for the 2013 Confederations Cup?

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 3:07 PM | Report abuse

I should have read the entire Wiki page. Guadeloupe is not an official member of FIFA, so they cannot play in the World Cup.

They ought to be a pretty tough opponent in the Gold Cup.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 3:10 PM | Report abuse

So Davies to Sochaux? Is there a league more boring than the french one?

Posted by: Brian76

MLS?

*ducks*

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 3:16 PM | Report abuse

@fischy: Guadeloupe is considered part of France (as a department), so that's why they can't field a team for World Cup qualifiers.
CONCACAF allows them to field a team for Gold Cup. This would be equivalent to UEFA allowing a Basque team to qualify for European Cup of Nations, but not World Cup. Thus a guy like Jocelyn Angloma played in the last Gold Cup with them, despite representing France in previous World Cups.

Posted by: Charisma_Man | July 10, 2009 3:20 PM | Report abuse

OK, Charisma Man -- what about someone like Henry, whose father is Guadeloupean?

Are players like Henry bound to France by virtue of being born in France proper and capped by France, or is he also eligible to play for Guadeloupe? Since he keeps playing in Steve Nash's charity matches in NYC, I imagine Henry does have designs on finishing his career on this side of the Atlantic. It would be so cool to have Henry and Thuram play in the Gold Cup one day.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Not entirely surprising that they are doing so well in the Gold Cup, with this kind of a roster. Makes me wonder why they don't make an impact in WC Qualifying. Could there be some rule that allows the French-born players to play in other tourney but not WC qualifiers?

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 2:45 PM
_________________________________________

According to their Wiki page, unlike Wales and Puerto Rico, they can't field a separate team for WCQ, but have to compete for spots on the French NT. Someone who has been capped for France can play for the Gwada Boys at the Gold Cup, but only after waiting five years; I don't know about friendlies. That would clearly apply to someone like Lilian Thuram, who was born on the island; I don't know about someone like Henry, who has Gwada ancestry. (Is it even meaningful to talk about Gwada, Welsh, or Puerto Rican "citizenship"?)

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 3:27 PM | Report abuse

So if Guadeloupe won the Gold Cup, would that game's loser be the CONCACAF representative to the Confed Cup?

Posted by: Juan-John | July 10, 2009 3:28 PM | Report abuse

Juan-John:
No. This round of Gold Cup doesn't matter for Confed Cup, but if the same thing happened in two years, you would be correct.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

@cowpasture: Probably better to leave the intricacies of the afformentioned alone and throw in Scottish and Northern Irish, you get the drift.

@Charismaman: way to break it down. Great answer.

Posted by: yankiboy | July 10, 2009 3:32 PM | Report abuse

FIFA must punish Aguirre severely. Minimum of eight games is called for (if Bradley's actions called for four games) with a hefty fine. Personally, I think he should be suspended for the remainder of the calender year. His actions were beyond disgraceful. Woody Hayes was a very good comparison and he lost his job.

Posted by: croftonpost | July 10, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

@cow_pasture: It's semi meaningful because Wales is a FIFA member, so one may have Welsh soccer citizenship, excuse me, football citizenship (pronounced "footbach" because of the "double l" - hey, you learn things at the folklife festival).

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

(Is it even meaningful to talk about Gwada, Welsh, or Puerto Rican "citizenship"?)


No. They're French, UK, and US citizens, repectivly.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

Is there a Tour de Guadeloupe, or is that just a stage in the TdF?

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Thx, @mason08. This is why Gold Cup as well as all the other regional cups -- Asia, CONMEBOL, UEFA, Africa, etc -- should take place only once every four years, two years after/before each World Cup. That way, soccer players could get at least one full summer/offseason break after the World Cup.

Posted by: Juan-John | July 10, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

So -- a clarification from KP -- DCU will bid to host the USOC final at RFK. It's expensive. Houston could expect a pretty decent crowd, so they would have a decent bid. Seattle can expect a very big crowd, so they can afford to bid very high. If DCU is going to outbid those teams, it will require a very good turnout just to recoup most of the bid. NO whining. Just buy your tickets.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 3:42 PM | Report abuse

Democracy Blvd-

I've always wondered about the rules regarding who may play for the four Home Nations teams. For most national teams, the matter of who may play is a passport issue. Not so for those four, as they all share passports. Birthplace maybe? Ancestry?

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 3:45 PM | Report abuse

@Juan-John -- except there are good reasons why the Gold Cup takes place more often. One -- CONCACAF needs the revenue, but even more important is...Two -- a number of the teams really need the Gold Cup as game experience -- preparation for WC qualifiers. A lot of players do not have professional contracts, and their national association can't afford to stage many, if any friendlies. This is basically it for them, besides playing in some local semi-pro or amateur league.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 3:47 PM | Report abuse

I think Carnival or Royal Caribbean has a Tour de Guadeloupe.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Is there a Tour de Guadeloupe, or is that just a stage in the TdF?

Posted by: I-270Exit1

Google map it -- looks like a mountain stage!

La Guadeloupe, 38680 Presles, Isère, Rhône-Alpes, France

Posted by: Reignking | July 10, 2009 3:50 PM | Report abuse

To add to what Fischy said, prior to the Gold Cup proper there are qualifacation tournaments in the CFU (Copa Caribe) and UNCAF (UNCAF Nations cup).

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 3:54 PM | Report abuse

I think the player gets to choose, assuming he has offers from >1 country. IIRC, there was a British-born player of Jamaican ancestry who thought he had five choices. I assume that the new FIFA rules about when players may switch allegiances apply here as well. It's similar to US players with immigrant parents (e.g. Rossi or Torres) but with more options.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 3:55 PM | Report abuse

"a number of the teams really need the Gold Cup as game experience -- preparation for WC qualifiers." fischy

IMO, the Caribbean nations sub-confederation can have tournaments every year if they want - even on cruise ships, but I'm also in the quadrennial Gold Cup camp.

If the US, Mexico, and Canada need friendlies, we'll get more out of playing UEFA or CONMEBOL teams than CONCACAF minnows, and MLS teams won't lose players for a whole month.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

hey fischy I'd like to add to your tv listings: Chicago hosts Columbus at 8pm on ESPN2 Saturday evening.


Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

giardinie: are you really one of those cats that doesn't qualify cycling as a sport? Last time I checked soccer was still a "game" played mostly by children...

;-)

Posted by: DadRyan | July 10, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

(pronounced "footbach" because of the "double l" - hey, you learn things at the folklife festival).

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 3:38 PM
------------------------------------------

You didn't even have to go as far as the Mall for that. Robin Huw Bowen, the harper for Crasdant, gave a concert at a church near a certain freeway interchange a few years ago:

http://www.imtfolk.org/html/imt05_huwbowen.html

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 4:21 PM | Report abuse

As I am about to leave for the weekend, I proffer to the jury my summmation of this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CTPLUcQAjk


For those of you who dislike when this thread turns to music references (I'm looking at you Reingking) -- sorry, those are the brakes.

Posted by: BlackandRedRedDevil | July 10, 2009 4:28 PM | Report abuse

For those of you who dislike when this thread turns to music references (I'm looking at you Reingking) -- sorry, those are the brakes.

Posted by: BlackandRedRedDevil

Would anyone get all argy-bargy, saying I'm over-egging the pudding as it were, by leading to a Kurtis Blow "The Breaks" reference? :) Or am I just showing my old(-school) age...

I actually like the diversions, whether into other sports or music, or even food (Goff and Tenorio, meet Sietsema...Tom, this is Steve and Paul).

Posted by: SportzNut21 | July 10, 2009 4:40 PM | Report abuse

(Is it even meaningful to talk about Gwada, Welsh, or Puerto Rican "citizenship"?)


No. They're French, UK, and US citizens, repectivly.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 3:38 PM
------------------------------------------

Which was precisely the point of my rhetorical question. Citizenship status is crucial to the treatment of people such as Freddy Adu. If Adu's parents had moved to Puerto Rico rather than Maryland, would he have become eligible to represent Puerto Rico as well as the USA and Ghana? And if he could represent Puerto Rico as a person who was not born in Puerto Rico and has no known Puerto Rican ancestors, but is a U.S. citizen and has lived in Puerto Rico for a certain length of time, why would this not apply to anyone born on the U.S. mainland who moved to Puerto Rico?

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 4:47 PM | Report abuse

"Stepping in a rhythm to a Kurtis Blow
Who needs to think when your feet just go"

Posted by: OWNTF | July 10, 2009 5:00 PM | Report abuse

Small matter, but there were only 3 red cards. Coaches can't get cards. The ref simply told Javier he had to leave.

Posted by: BigBubba1 | July 10, 2009 5:02 PM | Report abuse

Cow Pasture-

I don't think he could do that. A cursory look at the list of last callups for PUR shows a bunch of people who were born there, or if they weren't, a parent or grandparent was (Newyoricans).

Besides... Why would you want to cap-tie yourself to PUR when you can play for the USA? The former rarely ever even qualfies for Gold Cup, much less the World Cup. Look at Chris Armas: Five friendlies for PUR, 66 caps for USA.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 5:14 PM | Report abuse

Interesting that DC is interested at some level in Harrisburg's Shipalane.

As was mentioned in the Open Cup threads he was their best player and also provoked much mirth and catcalls for wearing his shorts backwards in both halves. Maybe it confused DC's defense.

Posted by: Joel_M_Lane | July 10, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

"Why would you want to cap-tie yourself to PUR"

For the arroz con pollo and the delicious slow-roasted pork that slips off the bone and melts in your mouth.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 5:22 PM | Report abuse

Also, Univision's website says Canada v Costa Rica is on Galavision at 7pm tonight. For the Ticos, Canucks and Jackovic fans.

Unfortunately I don't get that channel so I might sneak a peak at Telemundo and Univision just in case their listing is wrong or outdated:

http://www.univision.com/content/content.jhtml?chid=4&schid=9756&secid=0&cid=419683

Posted by: Joel_M_Lane | July 10, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

Is there a formal policy that Puerto Rican ancestry is required for eligibility? Is it written down somewhere? And not everyone has a realistic chance of playing for the USA, so being cap-tied to Puerto Rico is better than nothing.

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 5:24 PM | Report abuse

"Why would you want to cap-tie yourself to PUR"

For the arroz con pollo and the delicious slow-roasted pork that slips off the bone and melts in your mouth.

===

Valid reasons, but also avaiable without the muss and fuss of lifelong commitment!

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 5:30 PM | Report abuse

For the cycling people, letour.fr and click on English if your French isn't so good. If you speak French, lequipe.fr is also an alternative if you don't like the official site and includes the bonus of being good for following Charlie Davies news.

Posted by: sportsparenttoo | July 10, 2009 5:31 PM | Report abuse

It's written down (sort of) here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_national_football_team


Birth, ancestry, or residency. Not so much written down as empirical evidence. Scroll down for the roster and click on the names.

"Chris Megaloudis is eligible to play for Puerto Rico because his mother Carmen is Puerto Rican."

Terry Boss's stay with the Puerto Rico Islanders helped him to qualify to play for the Puerto Rico national football team.

In 2008, having been a resident of Puerto Rico for three years, [Petter] Villegas made his debut with the Puerto Rican national team,

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Is there a formal policy that Puerto Rican ancestry is required for eligibility? Is it written down somewhere?
===
> Fifa doesn't just manage the laws of the game, ya know? I'm sure the answer you seek is buried somewhere in the reams and reams of regulation they've produced. I'll do a little research and see if I can find anything.

http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/documentlibrary/legalmatters.html


=====
And not everyone has a realistic chance of playing for the USA, so being cap-tied to Puerto Rico is better than nothing.
===
> True.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

Birth, ancestry, or residency. Not so much written down as empirical evidence. Scroll down for the roster and click on the names.
-------------------------------------------

Again, precisely my point. How much residency? Two months? Two years? The USMNT, USWNT, and their youth counterparts are constrained by residency requirements for U.S. citizenship that have been enacted by Congress. Can the Puerto Rico federation just make up its own rules?

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 5:42 PM | Report abuse

http://www.fifa.com/mm/66/98/97/statusandtransfer%5fen%5f2505.pdf

Page 36: Summary:

Basically, you have to have the relevant nationality (US), and be either:
a) Born in PUR,
b) PUR-born biological parent,
c) PUR-born granparent
d) LIved in the territory of the relevant association for at least two years

In addition, if two or more association share a nationality, they may make and agreement deleting or modifying part (d)to specify a longer limit, and have FIFA approve said agreement.

Posted by: mason08 | July 10, 2009 5:48 PM | Report abuse

Where's yankiboy when you need him? No doubt in Puerto Rico, eating arroz con pollo and slow-roasted pork and listening to the coquis.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 5:49 PM | Report abuse

since i guess this it he only thread we have for now....

3 goals in about 6 minutes in Canada-Costa Rica match. Sutton fell down on a chip by Andy Herron for the first goal the Canucks have allowed, but they stormed back with 2 quick ones including a Golazo from about 25 yards out on the 2nd one (the first was the result of some terrible marking).

Jakovic not playing for Canada. neither is Ali Gerba.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 7:39 PM | Report abuse

and then the Ticos strike again on a beautiful free kick. entertaining game. very fun Gold Cup so far.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 7:42 PM | Report abuse

Okay, so, my thoughts on things throughout the day:

I watched Goal 2 on my way to Nashville today, and enjoyed it. Predictable, but some well shot scenes, soccer and others, and the scenes with the "star players" outside of the game were greatly enjoyable.

A Guadaloupe stage of the TdF? Sure. But they can't fly there. They have to take a cruise ship, and the riders have to have a stage on the way there and on the way back. One of them a time trial for a certain distance around the running track on the top deck, and the other all through the ship, waiting on elevators and everything. I don't know how the trail cars fit into this.

I'm gonna practice really hard now, and go live with yankiboy, and I'll see you guys on the Puerto Rico national team!! (Gotta really work on that soccer/Spanish primer Fischy put up now)

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 10, 2009 7:54 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 10, 2009 7:58 PM | Report abuse

Aguirre no tiene cojones!

Posted by: Barracudas | July 10, 2009 8:45 PM | Report abuse

270:

You went to that thing as well? My newfound Welsh knowledge:

1. Tomos Watkin's Braf is a quality beer.
2. Not everything in Wales is about Ryan Giggs. In fact, no one once mentioned Giggs during my several hours at the folklife festival.

fischy:

Seattle's ability to draw right now is going to make it next to impossible for DCU to outbid them, unless Chang is willing to go wild knowing he will lose quite a bit. Last year's final drew 8,212. Even with the slightly thinned out schedule this year, I have a hard time seeing the final even match our normal regular season attendance.

Our best hope to get it at home is for Houston to beat Seattle. I bet our bid will be very close to theirs.

J_M_L:

Shipalane is an intriguing player, but if wide midfield is his only position, I wonder if he really serves any purpose for us. After all, we've got Quaranta, Fred, Pontius, Wallace, Khumalo, and McTavish, and we also had Barklage available out there until Tuesday night.

JfAtl-ish:

Goal.com has a bad habit of stating things as 100% done when they aren't. This article is just a rehash of the initial Olympiacos rumor. Basically, Goal.com says the move is official because Goal.com is reporting it as such.

We'll see what actually happens. It seems to me that Villarreal would want Altidore somewhere in Spain, adjusting to the Spanish style of play and lifestyle (which is what they said about the loan to Xerez).

Posted by: Chest_Rockwell | July 10, 2009 9:03 PM | Report abuse

not sure what to attribute it to, but the refs at the GC have really been good at ignoring most of the diving going on. last night's debacle aside, the reffing has actually seemed up to the level of competition and importance of the matches. if only this could carry over to the rest of the MLS season.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 9:20 PM | Report abuse

I just noticed that this morning's Metro section had a report from Estadio RFK:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070902136.html

Posted by: cow_pasture | July 10, 2009 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Did anyone catch Canada-Costa Rica or is anyone watching El Salvador-Jamaica?

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

wow, i had no idea there were "1 million or so" Hondurans living in the U.S. that seems like a lot for some reason. the Census Bureau has it closer to 500,000 well behind Salvadorans and Guatemalans, so i wonder where the Post is getting that number.

http://tinyurl.com/ly7mcz

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 9:49 PM | Report abuse

sitruc - present and accounted for. Canada-CR had a great first half but it sort of fizzled in the 2nd. i've only been half paying attention to this late game but don't feel like i've missed much.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Jamaica has broken through and scored in the 69th minute.

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 10:35 PM | Report abuse

how did this El Salvador team beat Costa Rica? looks like Jamaica will jump ES in the 3rd place tiebreak if this holds up.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Yup -- From what I've seen, I think Goff needlessly dissed Omar Cummings, after he torched DC United. He's a good player. That was a skillful finish.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 10:47 PM | Report abuse

Jamaica playing like they need another goal, but i thought head-to-head was the first tiebreak.

lots of end-to-end action now. Jamaica just missed a clear goal chance.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 10:54 PM | Report abuse

Jamaica is going to have some regrets after this match...

4 minutes stoppage to go

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 10:55 PM | Report abuse

Jamaica is putting on a clinic on how to blow your chances.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

that card was unwarranted. great chance for ES coming up on the free kick.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Really, dimesmakedollars? I assumed it was goal differential. Hope is still alive then.

How was that a foul on Jamaica's Johnson?

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 10:57 PM | Report abuse

Ooooh!

Wow.

That was close.

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 10:58 PM | Report abuse

Full time and Jamaica wins 1-0

Posted by: sitruc | July 10, 2009 10:59 PM | Report abuse

according to the ever-accurate Wikipedia:

If teams were level on points, they are ranked on the following criteria in order:[9]
1. Greater number of points in matches between the tied teams (if applicable)
2. Greater goal difference in matches between the tied teams (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
3. Greater number of goals scored in matches among the tied teams (if more than two teams finish equal on points)
4. Greater goal difference in all group matches
5. Greater number of goals scored in all group matches
6. If teams are still tied, CONCACAF will hold a drawing of lots

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 11:00 PM | Report abuse

A beautifully taken free kick by the Honduran goalie -- hit it just fractionally too fine, as the bend took it to the post. However, the foul call against Johnson ws totally bogus. If there was a foul there, it should have been called on Zelaya. Justice prevailed.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:01 PM | Report abuse

not often you see the goalie take a free kick with the game on the line. and hit the crossbar to boot!

Jamaica will have to see how the other 3rd place teams do. Haiti has 3 points and a +1 GD. Panama has 1 point and a -1 GD, but they get Nicaragua.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 11:03 PM | Report abuse

Chest: I too went into the Wales Sports tent and concluded that they don't play footy in Wales.

JacobATL: You have to live in Puerto Rico, not with Puerto Ricans. But if you're living with Roselyn Sanchez, who cares where.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:04 PM | Report abuse

crossbar, post, whatever. it stayed out, and i agree that justice prevailed.

but man, with 8 teams out of 12 advancing to the knockout round, the Gold Cup is less stringent than the NBA playoffs and just slightly above "everybody gets a trophy" day.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

Tiebreaker is goal diff, according to FSC (not Bretos)

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:09 PM | Report abuse

@Chest -- Well...I haven't been too impressed with the play of Fred and and Wallace on the wings. I had the impression you agreed their best games came when they played centrally. Quaranta might not be back for a few weeks, and might get called away again. Khumalo and McTavish aren't worldbeaters in reserve. If Shipalane gives us more offense than either of those, he'd be a good addition.

On the USOC final -- As I wrote, Seattle would have a huge crowd -- probably sell almost every ticket they make available...so, I doubt DCU will bid as high as the Sounders. However, I think, you can expect that United would draw a much bigger crowd than last year, for 3 reasons:

First, there would be a much longer lead-time to advertise. Last year, it was a couple of weeks. This year it would be more like 6 weeks. Second, the advertising and appeal would be stronger, since DCU is now the defending champions. DCU fans will be more into it for that reason alone, and more understand the tournament now. Also, this is the "summer of soccer" --that means more focus, not less, on the sport. Finally, the opponent would be not be an unknown USL side. This would be a marquee match-up. I'm sure United could draw at least 50% more than last year, but I realize we're still looking at less than half of what Seattle might draw in Qwest. Still, it sounded as if Payne is willing to take a loss. They really want this game. The question is how much of a loss are they willing to take -- how high would they bid.

Lastly, based on the link posted above -- the Altidore move to Olympiakos is a done deal. Let's hope he can crack the first XI, or at least be the first substitute off the bench.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:11 PM | Report abuse

I-270 - it looks like FSC has this one wrong. the writeup on the Goldcup.org says:

"Omar Cummings scored with a flick of his right foot in the 70th minute and Jamaica beat El Salvador 1-0 Friday to keep alive its hopes of advancing to the quarterfinals of the CONCACAF Gold Cup."

http://www.goldcup.org/page/GoldCup/NewsDetail/0,,12802~1719571,00.html

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

Tiebreaker is most payments to Jack Warner

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 10, 2009 11:17 PM | Report abuse

the ref in that match was Trinidadian. hmmm......

if the tiebreaker was "kicks to an opposing players groin by a coach," Mexico would be the champions of the world.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 10, 2009 11:23 PM | Report abuse

I 270,

YOU ARE ON FIRE! It's hot in the hot tub. OW!

Good times after a long week.

!!Que viva la Insider!!! Que viva!

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:27 PM | Report abuse

Hmmm..."la Insider"??? Not "el Insider"? I have to think about that. Care to justify your feminization?

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

Telefutura's announcers seemed pretty sure Jamaica clinched 3rd in the group over El Salvador because of the win, even though they each finished on 3 points and ES had more goals scored (goals scored is the tiebreaker that allowed the US to advance over Italy after the Cornfed Cup group stage).

Jamaica was the better team and deserved to win. Lots of MLS representation on the Reggae Boyz with Ricketts, Tyrone Marshall, Omar Cummings, Dane Richards and even Nicholas Addlery who missed a sitter near the end that would have salted the win away.

Posted by: Joel_M_Lane | July 10, 2009 11:29 PM | Report abuse

@Fischy

Fred can still bring it. Leave him be. The guy lost his dad last winter and has had to adjust. He's not having a great year out wide, true to your words, but he can still bring it.

The folks asking for his head are just simple . . . kind of like Soehn and Bradley.

Cheers

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:31 PM | Report abuse

La columna? But, it's el sitio or el blog...

This is a question for bigger minds.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:32 PM | Report abuse

La o el? Yeah, well ne'r been much for gramer nor spekun American co-rectly for that matter.

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

@Joel -- they did clinch 3rd place in the group -- but they haven't clinched a place in the quarterfinals. Only 2 of the 3 third-place teams advance.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:34 PM | Report abuse

@delantero -- I didn't suggest that Shipalane would or could supplant Fred. I was saying he'd be useful on the wing, if he was an upgrade offensively over Khumalo and McTavish. He'd give us depth. If he's used, it might mean Fred moves into the center and Gomez up top, or maybe Fred would play up top. I don't think Fred would object to such a move. I'm pretty sure Fred would prefer either position to being on the wing....

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:37 PM | Report abuse

Shipawho? Can't follow it (the football world) that closely, the man has me down.

Either way, the general blog comments about Fred seem to be super negative, particularly those who claim we shouldn't keep him around next season.

Like I've said, he can still bring it, he just needs to find that motivation.

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:43 PM | Report abuse

"I'm proud that when we go on the road, we try to play aggressive soccer, with stylish attacks and numbers committed forward."

Kevin Payne

I raise my cup to Kevin Payne, a man I once peed next to at the beer rental stall.

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:49 PM | Report abuse

@delantero -- just read the posts above -- you're coming in the middle of a conversation, and interjecting, without knowing what we're talking about. Tiyi Shipalane -- plays for Harrisburg and torched Avery John repeatedly on Tuesday. In a chat today, Payne was asked id he'd look at Shipalane. Payne replied that he is already looking at him as a possible pickup.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:51 PM | Report abuse

@delantero -- admitting to public urination is bad enough, but you didn't have to implicate KP in this crime....

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:52 PM | Report abuse

"you're coming in the middle of a conversation, and interjecting, without knowing what we're talking about"

Story of my life fisch!

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:53 PM | Report abuse

However, it explains a lot about RFK -- the smell and the rats. Now, we know whom to blame.

Posted by: fischy | July 10, 2009 11:53 PM | Report abuse

Public? I was in the upper crust bathroom, outside the trophy case from where one could even even see Herr Goff. Seat side waiters and even an overhead fan.

Payne suprised me and chose the spot next to me (always a little odd), but was sharply dressed . . replete with plaid pants, chamomile shirt jack, tie. Magic!

Posted by: delantero | July 10, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

i'm not trying to interject in any previous conversation...But with regard to the "kick". Ya cyan't do dat mon!

Posted by: boricuabopper | July 10, 2009 11:59 PM | Report abuse

fischy:

This season, Fred has been better in the middle. In the past, that hasn't necessarily been the case. He's been a bit more careful in possession, while maintaining his unpredictability. It could just be temporary. Given his ability to unsettle defenses on the run, I think we've got to find a way to get him into most games, and if he's just Gomez's backup, that won't happen. I'd choose him, even in current form, over what I saw of Shipalane every time.

Wallace, I think, has been about even in the two spots. I think the misunderstanding might come from the fact that I was quite pleasantly surprised to see him do well in the middle. It was also nice to see Soehn come up with an unexpected, but effective, solution about how to replace Olsen (since Jacobson at the time was not quite sure how to balance his offensive and defensive responsibilities, and McTavish just didn't offer much offensively). Frankly, I don't think many were expecting anything other than a rotation of Jacobson and McTavish as Olsen's replacement, while Soehn had the great idea to put in someone that has Olsen's aggressive qualities. You lose the guile and the craft, but you gain a lot in mobility, whereas with the others you don't gain much dynamism while still having about the same (relative to Olsen) lack of soccer IQ.

Wallace offers a lot defending his flank, and has the best engine of any of our wide players. His defending lets him down a bit when it comes to sorting out who to mark with others. Still, I can't think of a game where he didn't at least battle his opposing number to a draw on that side of the field. Considering he's alone and often going against 2 players out of a 442, that's impressive. He's far from perfect, but he's been better than I was expecting in both positions. He's another I would take over Shipalane every time.

Once you factor in Quaranta and Pontius, Shipalane (or any new wide player) would be fighting to be 5th choice. There's also the fact that he will have to adjust to our 3412, rather than having a dedicated outside back behind him all the time in the 442 they play. I think we'd be better off using our roster spots/extra salary on a defender, a keeper, and a midfielder that can play both wide and centrally (essentially, a clone of Barklage). I could, however, live with bringing him on trial to see if he's a better fit than, say, Khumalo (interestingly his fellow South African).

I agree that DCU will probably put up a bid that will leave them losing money to host the final, but by how much? Does Houston have the same kind of institutional hunger for trophies? I also agree that the factors are better this year, but I still have trouble believing that a non-season ticket game will outdraw our normal league attendance. It's just the vibe I'm getting this year, because of the poor economy and the stink of last year still lingering in the minds of many casual fans.

Posted by: Chest_Rockwell | July 11, 2009 12:04 AM | Report abuse

"but I still have trouble believing that a non-season ticket game will outdraw our normal league attendance."

Entirely agree with your extemporaneous comments, but if it's a Cup Final, they will come. The team will get a hundred grand if they win? How much does the final cost?

I say 10K for attendance if it's MLS vs MLS . . as long as it's advertised well.

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 12:09 AM | Report abuse

@delantero -- My apologies. I read "beer...stall". The "rental" in the middle went completely over my head.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:13 AM | Report abuse

okay there are problems when we're talkin' some bikin' and not when you guys are getting all E-Harmony on all of us? Geez Louise boyyzzz, get a room...

I think Fred deserves a chance to finish off this season. He's been injury plagued since he came to DCU, he can't hit the broad side of Chad Barrett's Mobile home, but the guy has had a rough year, and probably a serious test of his faith. We owe him a little bit more. I believe, like Tino, that Fred may really be able to find his stride in the next couple weeks. Seriously! I had this same feeling about Tino. With Barklage out, Open Cup play, and league play out of our hands for another weekend, Fred's stock Rises.
I'm still confident in DCU to win Open Cup. Qualify for Champions League, and get deep into the play-offs if not win the Cup again.
Gomez and Olsen are ready to take it on again. Believe me.
Fred will make us all plead for his signing. We will keep Pontius! And Lose Wallace in the Expansion Draft.... ugh...

Posted by: DadRyan | July 11, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

I think United could put at least 13,000 in the stands for the final, but it's still half of what Seattle could pull @ Qwest.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:14 AM | Report abuse

I don't buy that fischy.
How many are they drawing at Starfire? How many are left standing outside starfire?
If Sounders launch some sort of computer blimp that drops free scarves and pin#s to win SEASon tickets maybe 10k show up.

Seattle is soccer in zero gravity folks: Sonics Stolen=People looking for something to make themselves feel better about. Nice, and easy, right downtown. Funny color. Every body is doing it! It's fun!

How many were at the final last year fischy? 8k? 6k? Why would we draw bigger this year? Cuz Casey "Handle the ball outside my box with a smug look on my face" Keller is gonna be there?
Stuey Holden and Brian Ching the draw?
I don't get it?

Posted by: DadRyan | July 11, 2009 12:26 AM | Report abuse

I can in no way speculate what attendence for the final would be, because I can't get a general feel for the vibe around town, but I can assure you I'd rather it be played at RFK than in Houston or Seattle. If the winning team makes 100,000 as someone else mentioned, well then that covers the expectant bid and tickets are good too. I think you bite the bullet to play at home, expecting to win at home, as opposed to what will likely be great crowds at either of the other two places (not to say the crowd at RFK wouldn't be great, of course).

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 12:34 AM | Report abuse

"I'm still confident in DCU to win Open Cup. Qualify for Champions League, and get deep into the play-offs if not win the Cup again."

Agreed. We're in a better position than last year, certainly. Key players have had some time off this summer without Superliga and young guns have shown promise. Hopefully, we'll hit our stride this fall . . if the new rookies and vets can put it together and hit the net, we'll be fine.

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 12:34 AM | Report abuse

Sooo, I didn't see this posted..it looks like Firpo for Chatanooga or whatever they were called is OFFICIAL via CONCACAF:

http://www.concacaf.com/view_article.aspx?id=4829

Everyone get your beer- and Spanish insult-repellent clothes out and ready.

I SCOOPED GOFF (while he was on vacation) WOO!!!

Posted by: the_slammer | July 11, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

Dallas got over 10,000 for the final in 2007 vs. NE, so i would hope that DC could do significantly better against a top MLS opponent. maybe United can pick up a Honduran or two between now and then.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 11, 2009 12:35 AM | Report abuse

You would, assuming passage, something I'll remind everyone is NOT certain, have an extra couple of weeks to market the game, and if the team performs well (in league, CCL, and maybe biggest of all Real Madrid) you should certainly be able to draw 12-15k.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Wiki page for Firpo lacks stats for most of the players. However, they seem awfully young, and I don't recognize more than a couple of names. I think we can take 'em....

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:48 AM | Report abuse

Extra couple of weeks because the final is not until September this year*

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 12:48 AM | Report abuse

""Firpo for Chatanooga or whatever they were called is OFFICIAL via CONCACAF""

That's a crap sandwich for DC. At least the gate will be ten times better, but it will be San Salvador in Washington that night.

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 12:50 AM | Report abuse

fischy - sounds like a good chance for DC to do some scouting. they have 3 Argentines, including one - Matías Emanuel Fernández - who has his own 10-minute YouTube highlight video (with soundtrack by Creed??). it takes over 90 seconds before an actual goal, though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHUT6IKz8z8

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 11, 2009 12:58 AM | Report abuse

Matías Emanuel Fernández . . . I like his skill and his effort, Olsen tenacity but with an offensive bent. His goal at 3 16-3 23 is sweet! Size might be an issue in MLS, but he springs some skill.

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 1:08 AM | Report abuse

oh wait, he and one of the others is no longer on the team, but they did pick up 2 Colombians.

and i couldn't resist the opportunity to put the Firpo anthem into Babelfish with the usual astounding results:

IT HAS IT COMES THE FIRPO, IT HAS COMES THE FIRPO. TODAY THE STAGES IN ALL THE SALVADOR VIBRATE. THE WINNING EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN ORIENTING FOR THE FIRPO, THE FIRPO LIVES, LIVES THE FIRPO! THE CLAW AND THE ANGER OF THE GOOD USULUTECO, FEEL WHEN THE FIRPO BEGINS TO MAKE GOALS. THE FIRPO LIVES, LIVES THE FIRPO! FIRPO IS THE WINNING EQUIPMENT, PRIDE OF MY EL SALVADOR MOTHER COUNTRY THE FIRPO LIVES!

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 11, 2009 1:10 AM | Report abuse

"AND THE ANGER OF THE GOOD USULUTECO"

I have no idea what this means, but if he's your God, I'd change teams.

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 1:18 AM | Report abuse

delantero - it might have something to do with the name of the city:

"C.D. Luis Angel Firpo plays its home games at Estadio Sergio Torres in Usulután, better known throughout Central America as The Devil's Cauldron because it is close to impossible to defeat Firpo there."

The Devil's Cauldron? that's the awesomest stadium name ever.

Posted by: dimesmakedollars | July 11, 2009 1:24 AM | Report abuse

Here's my dream: DCU and Seattle go 3-3 in both regular-season MLS games played at each other's stadiums.

One of the two wins the USOC at RFK.

The one that didn't win the USOC wins the Supporters' Shield.

The two meet up at Qwest Field for MLS Cup, each going for a domestic double.

Don't wanna say who I want to win the treble for fear of jinxing it all (my season tix in Section 132 notwithstanding), but the above would make one heck of a story line... :-)

Posted by: Juan-John | July 11, 2009 2:32 AM | Report abuse

Only one Friday post? What am I supposed to watch today?

Posted by: sitruc | July 11, 2009 3:34 AM | Report abuse

I hope you had your buddy resurface or replace the rotors, or chances are you are going to have to get your brakes done again sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Ron16 | July 11, 2009 6:28 AM | Report abuse

"THE WINNING EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN ORIENTING FOR THE FIRPO,"

And you people won't sing the Star Spangled banner because it's "too hard." Sheesh!

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 9:45 AM | Report abuse

I think the "winning equipment" refers to the fact they have super technologically advanced cleats and kits.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 10:25 AM | Report abuse

Hey, in "News from the Maybe-Apocolypse", Eddie Johnson scored a goal in Fulham's friendly against Perth Glory today.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 10:28 AM | Report abuse

Looks like DC United will lose first place today. Even if Chicago v Columbus ends in a draw (Chicago will have 25 points) and if TFC wins (25 points), we will drop to 3rd. Too many points left out there in ties!

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 10:41 AM | Report abuse

Well, good for Eddie. Fulham are in the Europa league and he may get his chances to be in the 18 for EPL and EL matches if he works hard. However, WashTimes indicates that Crystal Palace (London, not Baltimore) is interested in EJ.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 10:43 AM | Report abuse

Let me see, if the U.S. beats Haiti we could end up playing either El Salvador, Jamaica, Panama, Nicaragua, or even Mexico in the quarters?

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 10:47 AM | Report abuse

Extra couple of weeks because the final is not until September this year*

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 12:48 AM |
-----------------------------------------------

Actually, the final was 2 days later last year. The extra weeks come because the semi-final is being played 3 weeks earlier.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 10:55 AM | Report abuse

Look at the Gold Cup schedule. We'll play either Canada or Costa Rica in the QF. We can't finish lower than 2nd because we beat Honduras head-to-head.

El Salvador is done. Jamaica are in 3rd place in their group.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 10:59 AM | Report abuse

WashTimes indicates that Crystal Palace (London, not Baltimore) is interested in EJ.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 10:43 AM
_________________________________________

This is one of the very times, perhaps the first time, I've seen a reference to anything from that paper in this blog. I've always wondered whether anyone reads it (the Times, not this blog). Presumably Goff has a crosstown counterpart who sits next to him in the press box at RFK and elsewhere, but he has never mentioned him/her, to the best of my recollection.

Posted by: universityandpark | July 11, 2009 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Maybe I'm missing something? The USA is pretty surely going to beat or, at least, tie Haiti. That gives us first place in group B, which means we would play either A3 or C3. Panama, if they beat Nicaragua (likely), will be C3. Jamaica would advance as A3, if Panama draws or loses (assuming it's by 5 goals or less), or if the USA beats Haiti by at least 3 goals.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 11:23 AM | Report abuse

And, in the semi-finals, the USA would play the winner of Canada vs. Honduras/Haiti (whichever finishes 2nd in group B...presumably Honduras, when they take at least a point against Grenada and the USA beats Haiti). In the final, the likely opponent is either Mexico or Guadeloupe, though I guess you can't count out Costa Rica.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 11:32 AM | Report abuse

Make that "very few."

Posted by: universityandpark | July 11, 2009 11:36 AM | Report abuse

"Maybe I'm missing something?"

No fischy. I'm missing something, a good pair of eyes and/or glasses. Forget everything I wrote, except for ES being done.

@U&P: I've looked at the Times soccer page a couple of, well, times. No need to go there for match reports. But it's a slow day here.

For the most part, I get my news from two-thirds of the triumvirate of the liberal, left-wing, Obamaphilic, sycophantic media - NPR and the Washington Post.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 11:37 AM | Report abuse

@I-270 -- You're missing out on the paper of record? Then, you'd be missing the Goal Blog, which contained a short piece on yesterday's official announcement by the FMF that the WCQ vs. USA will be played at 3 p.m local

http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/mexico-city-late-afternoon-aug-12/#more-7363

Fortunately for the FMF, the craptastic Mexican economy means a lot of Mexicans will be free and able to attend the midweek afternoon tilt.

The Goal blog also has a Q&A with Grant Wahl, about the Beckham book. He blames Leineke, not Lalas for the circus that produced a miserable team.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 11:48 AM | Report abuse

WTF is on tv this weekend? Don't make me start talking about the TDF again.

Posted by: DadRyan | July 11, 2009 11:53 AM | Report abuse

"You're missing out on the paper of record?"

Oh? I thought the third part of the liberal media triumvirate was Hustler. I guess I'll have to cancel my subscription. Sorry Larry.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 11:56 AM | Report abuse

Wahl also had something to say about the DP experiment -- his comment might be worth more, if the facts backed him up. Here's what I had to say on the Goal blog:

Q: Do you think this whole Beckham episode has muddied the ground for designated players in M.L.S.?

A: Look around. There are now five designated players for 15 slots. It tells you that right now the league isn’t really going for this, that most of the owners are not interested.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Five? Let's see: Beckham, Ljundberg, Angel, Blanco, Emilio, Lopez and Schelotto. Ooops. That's nearly half the teams -- 7 out of 15. Not 5. New York even had 2 for a year. 2 teams had miserable experiences of their own with a DP -- Colorado sat Gomez, and Denilson was a washout in Dallas. Interesting to note that Seattle came into the league and very quickly signed up a DP. Want to bet that Philly isn't looking?

My guess is that after the World Cup, we'll see even more DP signings, as aging stars are willing to give up their World Cup careers to play in the USA.

The biggest hurdle to bringing in DPs is the quality of MLS and the remote location of some franchises. Teams don't want to spend DP money unless they're bringing in someone really good -- someone who will both score goals and put fannies in the seats. My guess is that the reason teams like Dallas, Salt Lake and Colorado don't have DPs has less to do with reluctance (especially in Salt Lake's case), and more to do with being unable to bring in someone worthy of a DP contract.

DCU was desperate to land Veron. They added Gallardo as a consolation prize, and upgraded Emilio to keep him happy. Houston stands out as a real exception only because they've got a really good team. Adding a DP would mean having to get rid of some real talent. That's not really true for any other team. Some are thrilled with their DPs, while others would love to have one if they could get one to sign.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:08 PM | Report abuse

"That gives us first place in group B, which means we would play either A3 or C3. Panama, if they beat Nicaragua (likely), will be C3. Jamaica would advance as A3,"

So how is it determined if A3 or C3 or B3 advances? Is it total points or goals scored or differential?

And it is still possible that we'd play Mexico (if they lose to Guadaloupe!) and Panama beats Nicaragua by x goals to finish 2nd, not 3rd in A . . .

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 12:24 PM | Report abuse

Man I sure screwed up on my fantasy teams. Why on earth is MLS's fantasy deadline at 11:30 am on matchday? I can understand like a half hour before kick off of the first game, but... In previous weeks I've always sorted out my teams before the midweek match, or I guess I always finished on Friday night...
I guess the good news is that I can't get - points for players who won't even play this weekend.
Darn.
The US are playing tonight right?

Posted by: DadRyan | July 11, 2009 12:32 PM | Report abuse

I stand corrected. Mexico could finish third -- in which case, we would play them or we would play Jamaica, if Jamaica advances. I assume the tie-breaks are as in other tourneys. Goal differential, followed by goals scored, followed by best bribe/sexual favors for Jack Warner.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:40 PM | Report abuse

USA-Haiti @ 7:00.

I think Goff is going to give Tenorio a good scolding, unless he didn't leave instructions for the baby-sitter.

Posted by: fischy | July 11, 2009 12:42 PM | Report abuse

Yeah, tonight we'll likely see a new keeper . . I'd like to see Robles . . and a few guys that probably are in the mix for 2014-18 not next year, and some that realistically shouldn't even have been honored by a call up like Heaps!! A sad joke, really. Namoff is 10 times the defender

Posted by: delantero | July 11, 2009 12:46 PM | Report abuse

"So how is it determined if A3 or C3 or B3 advances? Is it total points or goals scored or differential?"

Total points then goal differential (since they don't play head-to-head) then goals scored, then whatever else dime$ wrote.

Assuming my eyes and glasses are working, Jamaica (3 pts/-1GD) is in a precarious position. If Haiti loses by 1, they will still have 3/0. If Panama beats Nicaragua, they will have 4pts - vice versa, Nicaragua has to win by 4 goals to have 3/0 and jump ahead of Jamaica.

The Reggae Boys have to hope that Panama loses or draws. Or, if Panama wins, that we smash Haiti by 3.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 12:48 PM | Report abuse

All I know is that we play tonight, and then again sometime next week, and that I'll be rooting for us.

Well, that and that TFC is really serious about getting a DP of their own. Depo's de Guzman said on a Toronto radio show he was seriously considering a seven digit offer from TFC.

Posted by: JacobfromAtlanta-ish | July 11, 2009 1:19 PM | Report abuse

Four Monaco players diagnosed with swine flu.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/wires/07/11/2020.ap.soc.monaco.swine.flu.1st.ld.writethru.0126/index.html

EU imposes travel restrictions to the US and blames Freddy Adu.

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | July 11, 2009 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I came across an online community for individual seeking interracial love. It is --Mixedmingle dot com--- All singles there are seeking interracial relationships and sports friends. Interracial is not a problem here, but a great merit to cherish!

Posted by: sallyworking2006 | July 11, 2009 10:50 PM | Report abuse

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