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Matchday: USA-Mexico

Welcome from Estadio....Rosslyn. Steve Goff texted me to let me know that the internet in Azteca Stadium is down, and so I'll put up this thread for you guys to discuss this afternoon's all-important World Cup qualifier in Mexico City.

We all know what happened not too long ago up in the Meadowlands, a 5-0 disaster in the CONCACAF Gold Cup final.

Not too many Americans are left over from that squad, but the effect it's had in reinvigorating the sentiment for the national team within Mexico can not be ignored. A country that before was underwhelmed with a team struggling in qualifying is now chanting "cinco a cero" at the U.S. men during this trip. And let's not pretend that type of energy doesn't transfer over to the team.

Meanwhile, the majority of players not at the game have vowed this one should be different. And they'll be fighting to restore their reputation in a country where the U.S. National Team has never won.

It should be an interesting game.

You can keep tabs with Goff via his twitter @SoccerInsider.

In about a half hour, I'll also launch a live chat in a new thread above this one and I invited and encourage all of you to come and join me as I analyze, critique, give play by play and discuss random things throughout the match.

USA-Mexico
Where: Azteca Stadium; Mexico City, Mexico
When: 4 p.m.
TV: Telemundo (Spanish), Mun2 (English)

U.S. Starting Lineup: Howard; Cherundolo, Onyewu, DeMerit, Bocanegra; Dempsey, Bradley, Clark, Donovan; Davies, Ching. Casey and Marshall not in uniform

As usual this is your place for pregame and postgame banter. As for the in-game chat, again, I hope you'll join me in the live chat.

By Paul Tenorio  |  August 12, 2009; 3:17 PM ET
Categories:  2010 World Cup , Mexico , U.S. men's national team , USSF  
Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati   Google Buzz   Previous: Wednesday Kickaround
Next: USA-Mexico LIVE!

Comments

"Not too many Americans are left over from that squad"

Remember the Alamo!

Posted by: I-270Exit1 | August 12, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

No aircard for Steve? In all fairness, Ives says the concrete is messing with his.

Posted by: EssEff | August 12, 2009 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Bitter I can't watch this live.

Posted by: Reignking | August 12, 2009 3:36 PM | Report abuse

Brian Ching doesn't even deserve to be on the team.

Posted by: BelovedCartoonMouse | August 12, 2009 3:37 PM | Report abuse

CMON BOYS!!

Posted by: nairbsod | August 12, 2009 3:38 PM | Report abuse

France beat Faroe Islands 1-0 in a WCQ. Just one???

Posted by: Reignking | August 12, 2009 3:39 PM | Report abuse

Yeah and I check @ 47...and Germany were only up 1 on Azerbaijan...suddenly 1-0 Guatemala away does not look that bad.

Posted by: arswift24 | August 12, 2009 3:40 PM | Report abuse

I'm watching some of the pregame coverage on Mun2. Speaking as a male in his early twenties (i.e., their target audience), this is some condescending bull$-!†. It's like TRL, without all that highbrow sophistication. Yuck.

Switching to Telemundo.

And I don't care about Belgium ownership controversies. Today, I'll be drinking Barack's Choice: Bud Light.

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 3:48 PM | Report abuse

Chincoteague chapter checking in from one of the few bars in town that have satellite TV!

Posted by: Juan-John | August 12, 2009 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Remember DirectTv and Dish both unlocked mu2 for all home subscribers

Posted by: jjeffers3 | August 12, 2009 3:51 PM | Report abuse

yeah man Telemundo is where it's at...I gave up on any English-language game coverage in this country a long time ago (except Johnson/Rongen for DCU games..you guys rock!)

Posted by: Pedalada | August 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

@HW - what is TRL?

Posted by: nairbsod | August 12, 2009 3:52 PM | Report abuse

ESPN studio host just referred to "El Try". I mean, really? El "Try"?

Siddenly I"m OK with flipping over to mun2.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 3:53 PM | Report abuse

This is a big show of faith in Charlie Davies. It's not like playing in Gothenburg or Helsingborg has much in common with the Azteca.

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 3:59 PM | Report abuse

And...entering the cone of silence. Adios.

Posted by: Reignking | August 12, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

nairbsod: It defined "cool" in my middle school years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Request_Live

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 4:00 PM | Report abuse

COME. ON. YOU. YANKS!!!!!

Posted by: the_slammer | August 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

I hope Altidore gets in the game - for at least 30 minutes or so. He needs the experience.

Posted by: Miles_Standish_Proud | August 12, 2009 4:01 PM | Report abuse

Ya hear the horns now?
BTW I'm bringing mine to the Open Cup final!

Posted by: DadRyan | August 12, 2009 4:02 PM | Report abuse

The telemundo answer just said: "Charlie Salcido". I wish we could at least reach a detente with Mexico so we could bring their announcers to have a greater part in the American game.

Viva futbol! Es la hora de verdad.

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:03 PM | Report abuse

Bradley is too conservative. Altidore and Spector should have started. What a jerk!!!

Posted by: no_recess | August 12, 2009 4:06 PM | Report abuse

Charlie Davis, mun2?

Posted by: B_A_ | August 12, 2009 4:07 PM | Report abuse

GOOOOOL

CHARLIE "DAVIS"

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 4:12 PM | Report abuse

GOL GOL GOL GOL

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

I love Davies.

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 4:13 PM | Report abuse

Who is Davis?

:P

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 4:14 PM | Report abuse

I heard "el Try" and laughed, fischy. I wish it had been intentional.

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 4:15 PM | Report abuse

I guess that answered my question about putting faith in Charlie Davies. Perfect start to the game.

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:16 PM | Report abuse

Well that killed my buzz. 1-1.

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

Way too much possession for Mexico.

1-1

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 4:23 PM | Report abuse

that was a killer goal. who was that turning away from the ball and not challenging, bocanegra?

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:24 PM | Report abuse

yup, bocanegra

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:26 PM | Report abuse

what a crap yellow

Posted by: benonthehill | August 12, 2009 4:31 PM | Report abuse

this is looking dicey, the US better get some possession and settle things down

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

on onyewu, that is. demerit's was obviously well deserved.

Posted by: benonthehill | August 12, 2009 4:33 PM | Report abuse

dos santos has two bad fouls. cleats high, cleans out cherundolo twice.

no tarjetas.

boo ref.

also, anyone notice that davies got pelted with crap after he scored his goal? i guess projectiles are fair play.

Posted by: HWLongfellow | August 12, 2009 4:41 PM | Report abuse

the US is playing too defensive and too conservatively. since the first US goal, we've seen almost nothing from the US attacking players

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:44 PM | Report abuse

that's three of US defenders with yellows. yikes.

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

great, 3/4 of our back line carrying yellows for a full half.

Posted by: benonthehill | August 12, 2009 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Well, with the yellows on the back line, it's hard to say who should come out. Maybe Spector in on the left?

I'd sub in Feilhaber for Clark now, too, He's struggling mightily.

That leaves Altidore, Holden and Torres as options. I'd think you need to hold off on the third sub, with all those yellows on defense.

Gotta love the way that Moreno's calls so often seem to favor the non-American side.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

is this game on the radio????

Posted by: bonghits4gomez | August 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Good calls fischy. I was thinking Spector for DeMerit and slide Boca inside. Though I might hold off for 10 or 15 on Feilhaber to see how the half starts. In any case we need more possession since Clark and Bradley aren't exactly closing down space all that well in the midfield.

Posted by: benonthehill | August 12, 2009 5:01 PM | Report abuse

we're barely hanging on

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 5:21 PM | Report abuse

this is the classic Dempsey did nothing in the first half as a midfielder so let's take off a forward and put him up top Bob Bradley move. Worked great in the Confederations Cups - let's see if it works here

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 5:23 PM | Report abuse

the US is very lucky not be losing

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 5:26 PM | Report abuse

1-2

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 5:44 PM | Report abuse

sorry, but that's deserved

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 5:45 PM | Report abuse

can we re-start the get rid of bob bradley campaign?

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 5:46 PM | Report abuse

For Roberto Moreno -- all smiles, as it's "Mission Accomplished"!

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 5:55 PM | Report abuse

The lineup is going to be debated quite a bit after that showing.

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Tell me again why James Thorpe got ejected for hustling to move the ball from one side to the other when he thought Moreno was signaling him to do so?

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 5:57 PM | Report abuse

Moreno called a good game today. I thought he was nuts for giving Thorpe the yellow last year, but I have no complaints today.

Posted by: Pedalada | August 12, 2009 6:00 PM | Report abuse

you cannot defend for 80 minutes and expect to tie, let alone win. bob bradley is too conservative, too defensive, and too scared to make a decisive change / demand his team to move forward

if it weren't for a great goal by Charlie Davies and some exceptional play by Tim Howard, this team would've been routed. What exactly Clint Dempsey do? Either start him as a forward or leave him off the team, please.

We're going back to the World Cup in 2010, only to crash out meekly in the first round. Is that what you're aiming for Sunil, with our "unusual approach" to retaining coaches?

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

The lineup was OK. I think Spector gives you more offensive possibilities, but Dolo didn't kill the team. Boca was the weakest link defensively, but who else is gonna play left back? I figured Bradley would give Clark a half, but I thought he'd put Dempsey up top from the start. In retrospect, I don't know if it wasn't a mistake to start Rico, as he played a game Sunday night. Baby Bradley didn't look great. Daddy or not, he's gonna have to give Jones and Edu serious consideration for starting roles, once they're healthy. Or maybe even Holden.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 6:02 PM | Report abuse

That was not a good game by Moreno. That was nearly out of control.

Posted by: sitruc | August 12, 2009 6:03 PM | Report abuse

Not so much the lineup as the strategy of dropping waaayyyy back and allowing Mexico to have every ball in midfield.We saw almost nothing from our MF,incl.Donovan; the only dangerous move--after the first goal--came when Cherundolo moved up.(and later Holden).
I also thought that C.Davies was completely on his own; Ching was gassed and is too slow at Azteca anyway.
I went back&forth between mun2 and Telemundo.The first had the clearer pix and the latter the coherent commentary.

Posted by: bechtoldpk | August 12, 2009 6:04 PM | Report abuse

@diego_r - I'd like to see the USA press the attack more, because it's hard to keep Mexico off the board. Still, I can't say that we were really outplayed, or even that we deserved to lose. Holden and Davies were inches away from connecting on what would have been the go-ahead goal.

I don't blame Moreno for all the calls -- though Dos Santos was hardly the only Mexican player who deserved to be carded for time-wasting. As I said, I don't blame him for all the missed/blown calls. He had a lot of help from the assistants

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 6:07 PM | Report abuse

That was an awful game by the officiating crew solely from the stand point of keep the players safe. Games like that are the kind where players feel licsence to com flying in from all angles because they feel that the red has swallowed his whistle. The whole Nass confrontation after the free kick occured because moreno ddidnt notice the player on the pitch and allowed three of the "downed" players opposition to stand over him.

Just crap.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 6:13 PM | Report abuse

What exactly missed/blown calls are you referring to? I'd say the yellow on Onyewu was not deserved and maybe he could have managed the free kick scrum better. But scrums are extremely difficult to police, I think most refs will tell you that. News flash: we didn't lose because of the ref.

Posted by: Pedalada | August 12, 2009 6:17 PM | Report abuse

I don't really think we were outplayed - i think our coach abandoned his responsibilities. you can defend and still defend aggressively and push high in your own half. bradley, instead of demanding a more aggressive (even defensive) approach allowed us to collapse

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 6:18 PM | Report abuse

I will concede mason08 makes a good point about clearing opposition players away from a downed player though.

Posted by: Pedalada | August 12, 2009 6:22 PM | Report abuse

Nass confrontation => mass confrontation

Not to mention he called a corner on what was clearly a gk.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

Actually, if memory serves me, the first Mexican goal came on an attack that began with dispossessing Donovan, who was clearly fouled. But, there a number of whistles "swallowed", yellows not shown -- even a couple of calls like the late one on Onyewu that should have gone the other way.

I'm not saying that Moreno and his assistants cost the USA the game, but there were calls and non-calls that did influence the game.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 6:29 PM | Report abuse

I think Bradley brought Jozy on waaayyyy too late for him to influence the game. Was there a deal with Hull City not to play him too much right before the start of the EPL season in exchange for more availability for home games? Did Jozy even get a touch on the ball at all? I couldn't tell, especially if he was playing in the shady side of the pitch -- you could hardly tell which player was Mexican and which was USA.

Also, I'm still having trouble shaking the idea that the ref was intimidated by his surroundings, and made his foul calls (or non-calls) accordingly.

Posted by: Juan-John | August 12, 2009 6:35 PM | Report abuse

Ped-
Donovan was fouled but kept his feet for advantage during a counter during the first hal. The tackle, while not reckless, was tactical and cynical. Should have been yellow at the next stoppage..

Dempsey was fouled on an identical manner to demerritts foul. Should have been a card.

Player running in on the mass confrontation should have been carded which would have later prevented the Mexican player from running in on gooch.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 6:40 PM | Report abuse

Fischy's right--the no-call on the tackle on Donovan led directly to the first Mexico goal. There was no advantage played (if that's the no-call you're talking about, Mason)--Mexico got the ball immediately.

And only a yellow card to Torrado after the scrum was disgraceful. He should've seen straight red (sadly, so should Feilhaber, but then again, so should the Mexican who tugged at Davies' head to try to get him up). The ref totally lost control of that game, and while you can't say that Mexico wouldn't have found another way to score, it definitely hurt the US.

Posted by: Landru | August 12, 2009 6:53 PM | Report abuse

Landru-
No... I don't think it is, but it could be. I seem to remember one counter where Donovan was fouled but maintained possession, though he had been slowed enough that the Mexican defenders were able to recover.

I have been know to mis-remember though.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 6:59 PM | Report abuse

Being on vacation I'm a little late to the party on this, and I know it's slightly OT, but Kevin Payne's full-page ad earlier this week looks a wee bit hollow coming after Real Madrid's shellacking of DCU on Sunday.

Back to vacation for me. The beach becons. Talk to y'all again this weekend.

Posted by: Juan-John | August 12, 2009 7:02 PM | Report abuse

in regards to the ref, before the game a lot of the talk was about the over / under on how many players the US would end up with on the field . well, we ended up with 11. There are (almost) always problems with reffing, but none clearly cost us the game. What cost us the game is the being way too defensive / docile for 80 minutes, and that's not the ref's fault, that is bob bradley's fault

Posted by: diego_r | August 12, 2009 7:03 PM | Report abuse

There were two non-calls on fouls against Donovan. The first time he was pulled down -- one Mexican player grabbed his arm, I believe, as Donovan was flying past, and another Mexican took advantage and slid into Donovan, knocking the ball towards Blanco, who then set up Castro for his shot.

A few minutes later, Donovan was whacked in the legs, but he stayed on his feet, trying to keep possession. However, a second Mexican player took it away from him. Not as consequential as the first incident, but suggestive of a pattern.

I don't know why it is, but I can only think of a couple of games that Moreno has refereed when I DIDN'T think his calls were heavily slanted against the USA or MLS side. I know everyone thinks the refs calls go against their team, but Moreno has stood out for me for several years now. I can't prove it, obviously, but I feel like the bias here is not my imagination.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 7:36 PM | Report abuse

Fischy-
The second one is the one I'm thinking of. It was hard to tell in the SD but it looked like Moreno swung his arms forward to play on. Perhaps he was just saying "no foul" instead of "advantage". I hate refs who use the same mechanism for the two, but there really is no guidance on how to signal to players/fans/team officials, "I've seen the contact. I've seen the player go down. I think it was a fair tackle, and a not a dive. Keep playing." Some refs point to the ball. Some stick their arms out to their sides in a position similar to the hockey linesman's offside washout. Some use the arms swinging forward gesture which cause confusion with the advantage gesture. Finally... some do nothing, and while that may be the "official" action, and those officials are the ones that everyone wonders if they are watching the game at all.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 8:09 PM | Report abuse

I have never thought Moreno was a bad ref. I'm just not convinced he's an honest and fair one.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 8:18 PM | Report abuse

2 EUA (A)-0 MEX (A) in Columbus
5 MX (C) -0 EUA (C) in New York ....
2 MEX(A) -1 EUA (A) in Mexico City ...
Sorry .... congratulations for your advance in soccer , but Mexico is superior on concacaf area... maybe when win USA vs Brazil or Argentina in copa America or in Mundial maybe are best in concacaf... ;)
the referees make a poor work for two sides , not only one ,in EUA or Mexico ....they sometimes are bad for all

Posted by: danielousaang | August 12, 2009 9:05 PM | Report abuse

If you're going to play to tie why not put Altidore and Davies forward together for the second half?

Posted by: BrooklynSkins | August 12, 2009 9:39 PM | Report abuse

@danielousaang -- Lo siento, pero Mexico no es lo mejor equipo in CONCACAF. Los Estados Unidos va a concluir este toneo de clasificacion en el primer lugar. Su suerte hoy no va a cambiar esta verdad.

Posted by: fischy | August 12, 2009 10:10 PM | Report abuse

Daniel-
No. You're not. 5-0 in New York means nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

In that match, ours wasn't the top side and yours was. To say otherwise only serves to expose your disconnect from reality. The only matches that matter are the two WCQs in which we beat you 3-2 on aggregate and got the only away goal. Go beat the entire Iberian peninsula, or us on neutral turf, and we'll talk, but until then, you have nothing worth saying.

Posted by: mason08 | August 12, 2009 10:13 PM | Report abuse

The comments to this entry are closed.

 
 
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